PDA

View Full Version : TFC in-season player movement thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Oldtimer
03-14-2012, 06:20 AM
Post your facts and rumours here.

To start: according to Kurtis Lawson, they are planning to have some more players picked up in the summer transfer window, so they will keep at least 1-2 spots open.

pekduck
03-14-2012, 01:02 PM
I'd prefer same single thread for ease of real estate on the board and dedicated source.

Now back to topic. in-season player movement.

__wowza
03-14-2012, 01:12 PM
ty harden, trade bate for "future considerations"? if we're trying to free up a roster slot or two, why not start with him?

__wowza
03-14-2012, 01:16 PM
holy shit, after looking at his wiki, ty's only made 70 appearances for all clubs in all competitions and he's 28 years old!!


In February 2008, Harden announced his retirement after only one season as a professional soccer player, deciding instead to work for a charitable organization and to finish college at the University of Washington[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Harden#cite_note-0)

cochrdoc
03-14-2012, 03:24 PM
Holy shit,I would just like to read some info on who they might pick-up and noy all this Harden bashing.He put`s in alot better effort then alot of players .I would like to see who they might go after and what positions they play.Can this Emory kid play Left Back or Right center back to be ready if we get some injuries.I think he might be a surprise as he played well against Vancouver

__wowza
03-16-2012, 08:52 AM
^ sorry, i will try noy to do it in the future.
if you scroll up you can find some transfer/rumour info, but it seems winters pretty content for the moment and looking for depth. might be quiet unless a gem comes knocking.

Whoop
03-16-2012, 10:18 AM
Spanish newspaper AS is reporting today that TFC, along with Kansas City and LA, are in the hunt for Spanish CB Michel Salgado, last of Blackburn.

I know this has been reported previously.

Greatest Ripoff
03-16-2012, 10:31 AM
Spanish newspaper AS is reporting today that TFC, along with Kansas City and LA, are in the hunt for Spanish CB Michel Salgado, last of Blackburn.

I know this has been reported previously.

Isn't he a right back? Or can he play at CB? I'd much rather they go after a natural CB.

Island Man
03-16-2012, 02:58 PM
Spanish newspaper AS is reporting today that TFC, along with Kansas City and LA, are in the hunt for Spanish CB Michel Salgado, last of Blackburn.

I know this has been reported previously.
Can't see it happening, awful awful player, God knows how he gets into Blackburn's team. Wouldn't come cheap either.

reggie
03-20-2012, 10:41 AM
according to kurtis....TFC to sign burgos..

Lucky Strike
03-20-2012, 10:46 AM
according to kurtis....TFC to sign burgos..

Colour me unsurprised if true. This kid was a draft pick last year so there had to be something to him if he stuck around for so long even if he didn't have a deal. Someone remember what position he plays? This would make extra sense if he's able to go in defence giving the Frings situation.

reggie
03-20-2012, 10:49 AM
i think he is a #10 type player.

DoubleUp
03-20-2012, 12:16 PM
i think he is a #10 type player.

No more impotent attackers please.:nono:

dantdot
03-20-2012, 12:25 PM
He seemed more of a defensive mid judging from the Disney tourney.

Lucky Strike
03-20-2012, 02:56 PM
Found this about Moises Orozco http://m.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/03/20/american-exports-orozco-still-optimistic-over-mls-move

Ps the mobile site is pretty good.

mowe
03-20-2012, 05:20 PM
Interesting:

“They said they were very satisfied with my performance, that they really like me, but that due to the roster, it wasn't going to be possible right now,” Orozco told MLSsoccer.com on Monday.

I guess TFC really wants to leave a spot open, or two if Emory counts as an off-budget player. It's a shame, I was a fan of Orozco but I suppose attack isn't the biggest need right now. Maybe 2013!

T-boy
03-21-2012, 09:43 AM
Can't see it happening, awful awful player, God knows how he gets into Blackburn's team. Wouldn't come cheap either.

I'm not sure I'd describe Salgado as an "awful awful player"! How could a anyone who has played over 250 games for Real Madrid be an awful player? He's clearly got some talent! But, I'd be more worried about his age rather than his skill level, at 36 years old, he's not going to be a top player for much longer!

Dv23
03-21-2012, 11:25 AM
So, it's official. TFC Sign Burgos Jr.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/03/toronto-signs-burgos-jr

Detroit_TFC
03-21-2012, 11:30 AM
I think everyone was expecting it, glad the deal is done. Despite our difficult circumstances right now, we have a great set of young players right now.

West220Side
03-21-2012, 02:49 PM
I think everyone was expecting it, glad the deal is done. Despite our difficult circumstances right now, we have a great set of young players right now.

I agree. However I wish we were starting to mold some sort of replacement for Frings. Our game depends so heavily upon him, and injuries aside the guy isn't going to be playing until he's 38 for us.

Yohan
03-21-2012, 02:59 PM
I agree. However I wish we were starting to mold some sort of replacement for Frings. Our game depends so heavily upon him, and injuries aside the guy isn't going to be playing until he's 38 for us.

come back to us Sam Cronin!

DoubleUp
03-21-2012, 06:13 PM
The team should look into this dutch CB/RB Milano Koenders

Current club
NAC Breda (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/NAC_Breda)
(on loan from AZ
(http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/AZ_(football_club))
Contract expiring: 06/30/2012

ManUtd4ever
03-21-2012, 09:31 PM
So a TFC supporter walks into a restaurant, a waiter asks to take his order, and he replies...

"I'll have a Burgos Jr. with Frei(s), a side of Frings, a chicken Cordon bleu, and a Cann of Kocic all served on a Silva Plata please".

g:D

Dv23
03-21-2012, 09:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PIdWdw15U

ag futbol
03-21-2012, 09:51 PM
Our backline needs some speed in the middle to balance out Aceval and chase down balls the opposition is trying to play in behind... No more room for slow guys in their mid 30's.

Frings is playing back there as a "best of a bad situation" kind of thing and he does an amazing job. But if you're about to put something in the shopping cart, do it without the limitations. We need to continue to push into south america to uncover talent.

Auzzy
03-21-2012, 10:54 PM
So a TFC supporter walks into a restaurant, a waiter asks to take his order, and he replies...

"I'll have a Burgos Jr. with Frei(s), a side of Frings, a chicken Cordon bleu, and a Cann of Kocic all served on a Silva Plata please".

g:D

Awesome! Personally I would prefer Lambe Cordon bleu though, rather than chicken.

ManUtd4ever
03-22-2012, 07:25 AM
LOL, yes, I forgot to include rack of Lambe.

bignickel
03-22-2012, 07:31 AM
Awesome! Personally I would prefer Lambe Cordon bleu though, rather than chicken.

and the server replies "i am sorry sir but that is not on our Winter licious menu!!" plop!

Oldtimer
03-22-2012, 07:33 AM
Toronto FC Should Break the Bank to Try and Land Del Piero



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1112038-toronto-fc-should-break-the-bank-to-try-and-land-del-piero

I would gladly dump JDG in order to land ADP. That's despite the fact that I still like JDG despite some disappointing performances.

TFCBarrie
03-22-2012, 07:53 AM
The team should look into this dutch CB/RB Milano Koenders

Current club
NAC Breda (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/NAC_Breda)
(on loan from AZ
(http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/AZ_(football_club))
Contract expiring: 06/30/2012





TFC should be bringing in players like this. We need defenders who are slightly lesser quality in a top league, let's focus on getting guys who are solid, if unspectacular, and can keep the ball out of the net. If we look hard enough we should be able to find guys who fit this mould, who won't require a DP salary (DP Salaries are being handed out WAY too easily right now. Barry Robson, Vancouver? c'mon)

__wowza
03-22-2012, 07:56 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1112038-toronto-fc-should-break-the-bank-to-try-and-land-del-piero

I would gladly dump JDG in order to land ADP. That's despite the fact that I still like JDG despite some disappointing performances.

ugh, bleacher report articles are the worst!
im sorry, i can only see a fixed number ridiculous transfer rumour posts before i call it a day. if you saw the "10 bold predictions for the toronto vs LA game" article you get what im talking about. i was the guy who commented "NONE OF THESE ARE PREDICTIONS! YOURE JUST SAYING THINGS THAT MAKE NO SENSE!" about highlights of his article that included "robbie keane will be on the prowl" or "passing will be key"

i actually think the guy who wrote it deleted the article. sorry, end BR rant. back on topic.

brad
03-22-2012, 08:48 AM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1112038-toronto-fc-should-break-the-bank-to-try-and-land-del-piero

I would gladly dump JDG in order to land ADP. That's despite the fact that I still like JDG despite some disappointing performances.

Honestly think the best move would be dump JDG and bring in a DP CB. That improves the backline (should we choose well) and frees up Frings to move back to the midfield.

TFCBarrie
03-22-2012, 08:54 AM
Honestly think the best move would be dump JDG and bring in a DP CB. That improves the backline (should we choose well) and frees up Frings to move back to the midfield.

We can't dump JDG, the window to release him passed in the off-season, he gets to finish out his contract now.

jabbronies
03-22-2012, 09:03 AM
I don't think there ever was a backup plan for this. At least not for this year. Unless you count Dunfield as the backup plan.

T-boy
03-22-2012, 09:35 AM
I don't think there ever was a backup plan for this. At least not for this year. Unless you count Dunfield as the backup plan.

I don't think ANY football team has a backup plan for losing their BEST player. Even the best teams in the world don't usually cope with losing their number one star for a month . Man Utd may have Hernandez, Berb, and Welbeck, but none of them make up for the loss of Rooney ever. And just look at Chelsea when Terry is injured....they have good CB's to cover, but none of them are as good as Terry.

I don't think it would ever be possible to be totally prepared for the loss of Frings - unless we had a superstar in reserve, which just isn't possible in a league where you can only have 2 or 3 DP's.

ag futbol
03-22-2012, 10:24 AM
You can effectively put someone on a DP pre-contract (like Seattle did with Rosales - no way that guy signs any contract for 40k).

Year one - earns wage
year two + after - earns DP money

There are actually all kinds of creative ways to use this in order to get around the salary cap.

ManUtd4ever
03-22-2012, 10:30 AM
^^ Good point. TFC could still theoretically be active in attempting to lure a DP to Toronto during the summer transfer window by utilizing that creative approach.

DoubleUp
03-22-2012, 07:55 PM
Nana looked good with the U-23.

cochrdoc
03-22-2012, 08:00 PM
I liked the kids from El Salvador better.We need to upgrade when we bring a player in not the same old shit.Nana struggled here and in San Jose.The only up grade so far this year has been Aceval.

DoubleUp
03-22-2012, 08:37 PM
I liked the kids from El Salvador better.We need to upgrade when we bring a player in not the same old shit.Nana struggled here and in San Jose.The only up grade so far this year has been Aceval.

is that by default?, because Nana looked great tonight.

TFC/Everton
03-22-2012, 09:39 PM
I liked the kids from El Salvador better.We need to upgrade when we bring a player in not the same old shit.Nana struggled here and in San Jose.The only up grade so far this year has been Aceval.

Personally, I would argue that Silva is an upgrade as an attacking mid.

TFC/Everton
03-22-2012, 09:40 PM
Nana looked good with the U-23.

Stinson looked awful on the other hand.

DoubleUp
03-22-2012, 09:47 PM
very!

PopePouri
03-22-2012, 10:34 PM
Kinda hard for him when none of the wingers refused to track back on defense to help out the fullbacks. James was utter shite. Case in point, Teibert looked a lot better when El-Masri came on.

DoubleUp
03-26-2012, 11:51 AM
Javier Hernán Malagueño


Date of birth:
27.10.1982

Place of birth:
Córdoba

Age:
29


Height:
1,84


Nationality:
Argentina
Italy


Position:
Defence - Centre Back


Foot:
both





Contract expiring this year.

reggie
03-26-2012, 10:21 PM
yes....and what is yr point?

DoubleUp
03-27-2012, 12:34 AM
yes....and what is yr point?

If you dont know, then we're already to far gone.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-27-2012, 06:47 AM
i think what he is saying is you can post up cb backs all day til the cows come home but that doesnt mean TFC is going to pick them up

cyris2k
03-27-2012, 10:05 AM
Hearing that they are also looking at this Uruguyan Defender - Gaston Pagano. He's also free and played in the same league as MArtin Bonjour who signed in vancouver and they are 3 GP with 0 GA.

Highlights
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyLrgT-W3fI

DoubleUp
03-27-2012, 12:47 PM
i think what he is saying is you can post up cb backs all day til the cows come home but that doesnt mean TFC is going to pick them up


I know exactly what he means. I am illustrating if I can find them then this team is deficent and instead if the so called supporters spending more time disapproving/discouraging one another

and more time pressuring the organization. We'd get better results!


I come around from time to time. and all I read is sarcasm, defeatism, scepticism and excuses.

The dutch player I suggested would probably do well in our system because he has the technical ability and knowledge of our system........but I iam wasting time:facepalm:

TFCBarrie
03-27-2012, 02:24 PM
Hearing that they are also looking at this Uruguyan Defender - Gaston Pagano. He's also free and played in the same league as MArtin Bonjour who signed in vancouver and they are 3 GP with 0 GA.

Highlights
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyLrgT-W3fI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyLrgT-W3fI)


Don't throw rumours around without a source.

ArmenJBX
03-31-2012, 10:26 PM
Rumours swirling about a possible trade for a defender from Los Angeles.

Hearing Luis Silva being mentioned...

ArmenJBX
03-31-2012, 10:28 PM
Yup, it's official, Luis Silva and Joao Plata have been traded to Los Angeles Galaxy.

Still waiting for details on what we traded for but it's a defender, apparently.

TFCmatty
03-31-2012, 10:32 PM
patiently awaiting details...

MG42
03-31-2012, 10:32 PM
plata too, interesting

andyc
03-31-2012, 10:33 PM
Yup, it's official, Luis Silva and Joao Plata have been traded to Los Angeles Galaxy.

Still waiting for details on what we traded for but it's a defender, apparently.

You couldn't wait until after midnight?? April Fools?

ArmenJBX
03-31-2012, 10:34 PM
Last year, De Rosario was traded on April Fools day, so we can't be 100% sure about anything in this league, unfortunately :(

Looks like it's Plata, Silva and an international slot for Omar Gonzales.

MG42
03-31-2012, 10:36 PM
I'd be happy with Gonzales

Yohan
03-31-2012, 10:38 PM
I'd be happy with Gonzales

I think this is april fools crap, but Gonzalez is injured and won't be available until like summer, and he's got like one year on his contract or something and likely go to Europe after

MG42
03-31-2012, 10:40 PM
^april fools lol

Yohan
03-31-2012, 10:45 PM
^april fools lol

bad form to pull a prank before the actual date

kaos197O
03-31-2012, 10:49 PM
bad form to pull a prank before the actual date

It's past mignight here on the east coast. give him a break :rolleyes:

ArmenJBX
03-31-2012, 10:50 PM
bad form to pull a prank before the actual date

I figured with last years De Rosario debacle, I'd kick things off before hand, just by a bit!

Apologies :D

DoubleUp
03-31-2012, 11:01 PM
gettin rid of Silva is foolish and this defender fetish is gettin out hand, we cant win with 11 defenders.

DoubleUp
03-31-2012, 11:19 PM
Bad form! My brother almost had a conniption.

ArmenJBX
03-31-2012, 11:24 PM
Apologies, but it had to be done! ;)

Yohan
03-31-2012, 11:27 PM
dear mods. where are you

ArmenJBX
03-31-2012, 11:30 PM
dear mods. where are you

Really? :/
Jeez, I'm sorry :D

andyc
03-31-2012, 11:57 PM
Well played - It was my 12 year old kid that called the BS! You had me ranting and raving...

g:D

[NBF]
04-03-2012, 10:29 AM
What movement is being made on the Centre Back search? It would be tough to keep Koevermans, DeGuzman, and Frings if the team cant even fix the back four. Something has to give considering Koevermans cant score a fricking goal this season. He's playing alone the majority of the time and he was completely marked by DeLaGarza and Boyens vs Los Angeles. He was also a non factor vs the Crew, maybe because it was a windy day, but really our wingers dont have much accuracy with their crosses anyway and he has the mobility of a pylon.:drinking:

Auzzy
04-03-2012, 10:31 AM
;1467914']What movement is being made on the Centre Back search? It would be tough to keep Koevermans, DeGuzman, and Frings if the team cant even fix the back four. Something has to give considering Koevermans cant score a fricking goal this season. He's playing alone the majority of the time and he was completely marked by DeLaGarza and Boyens vs Los Angeles. He was also a non factor vs the Crew, maybe because it was a windy day, but really our wingers dont have much accuracy with their crosses anyway and he has the mobility of a pylon.:drinking:

Well, let's sticky this post & review at the end of the season.

TFCBarrie
04-03-2012, 10:39 AM
;1467914']What movement is being made on the Centre Back search? It would be tough to keep Koevermans, DeGuzman, and Frings if the team cant even fix the back four. Something has to give considering Koevermans cant score a fricking goal this season. He's playing alone the majority of the time and he was completely marked by DeLaGarza and Boyens vs Los Angeles. He was also a non factor vs the Crew, maybe because it was a windy day, but really our wingers dont have much accuracy with their crosses anyway and he has the mobility of a pylon.:drinking:

I thought Koevermans looked as good as a striker possibly can without scoring a goal against Columbus, he was in the play, moving around the box, had a couple of good chances and he looked like a legitimate threat. Save for that one konker of a shot that almost hit moon (from just outside the box, but wind could have played a factor on that one), I was happy with his performance.

__wowza
04-03-2012, 10:57 AM
Really? :/
Jeez, I'm sorry :D

@yohan: we know.
he posted that he was writing a prank article, anyone who read this could've gone back 2 posts (or even read it/the subsequent board posts) to know it was a joke. despite the timing matching up a year to the day we got rid of dero, and the fact that the thought of the trade is horrible, i got a chuckle. what's next years? dero coming back?

till then, mod duty: this was an april fools day joke, posts like this outside of that context walk a fine line between parody and unnecessary trolling and will be dealt with accordingly.

Red CB Toronto
04-03-2012, 11:53 PM
Stefan has his surgery and will be out 4 to 6 months, will be placed on the long term injury list to get cap relief. Guess it will be Milos with Brian Rowe backing him up unless they sign someone else, like they did in 2007 when Kenny was brought in on a loan after Sutton and Srdjan's issues with health kept them out of action.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/04/toronto_fc_frei_surgery/?utm_source=Soccer%20Lineup%20RSS-Images&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=TFC's%20Frei%20has%20surgery%2C%20out% 204-6%20months

ArmenJBX
04-04-2012, 12:18 AM
@yohan: we know.
he posted that he was writing a prank article, anyone who read this could've gone back 2 posts (or even read it/the subsequent board posts) to know it was a joke. despite the timing matching up a year to the day we got rid of dero, and the fact that the thought of the trade is horrible, i got a chuckle. what's next years? dero coming back?

till then, mod duty: this was an april fools day joke, posts like this outside of that context walk a fine line between parody and unnecessary trolling and will be dealt with accordingly.

It will only happen on April Fools, I can assure you!
Sorry if it annoyed anyone/crossed any lines, thought I'd have some fun! :D

J .
04-04-2012, 01:19 AM
Maybe they can get that FC Edmonton kid in who played for the u23 side.

razor787
04-04-2012, 02:06 AM
Maybe they can get that FC Edmonton kid in who played for the u23 side.

Holy crap, he is the Edmonton keeper? If we can snatch him, we will be in a GREAT spot in our keeping situation. I doubt we will be able to get him, even if Edmonton will sell him, after his performance he could have some interest in Europe that can pay more than what we could. Whatever we do though, we need to make sure we have enough money left to be able to pay for a new CB.

edit: Not sure of the rules exactly, but wiki has this as his first year. Im not 100% positive, but if im not mistaken players can't move from team to team in most leagues. The only reason MLS teams can, is because the league owns the contract, not the team. So Edmonton probably can't sell him, even if they wanted too, since this is his first year there.

Yohan
04-04-2012, 08:18 AM
Holy crap, he is the Edmonton keeper? If we can snatch him, we will be in a GREAT spot in our keeping situation. I doubt we will be able to get him, even if Edmonton will sell him, after his performance he could have some interest in Europe that can pay more than what we could. Whatever we do though, we need to make sure we have enough money left to be able to pay for a new CB.

edit: Not sure of the rules exactly, but wiki has this as his first year. Im not 100% positive, but if im not mistaken players can't move from team to team in most leagues. The only reason MLS teams can, is because the league owns the contract, not the team. So Edmonton probably can't sell him, even if they wanted too, since this is his first year there.

I think you're talking about a player can't play for more than two teams per year rule?

KGH
04-04-2012, 09:05 AM
I wouldn't plan on anything happening at the summer window unless we trade:



Kurtis Larson ‏ @KurtLarSUNIn terms of signing a new keeper, Mariner told me on the weekend the club has no cap space. Any available room must be used on a keeper now.


We can't use Frei's salary room to sign new players. The rules are clear for both short term and long term injury reserve and according to Mariner we don't have any cap room.

(K)SEASON-ENDING INJURY REPLACEMENTS (Season Ending Injury List)
A team with a player lost to a season-ending injury can place the player on the Season Ending Injury List and replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the season-ending injury list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).

(L) SHORT-TERM INJURY REPLACEMENTS (Disabled List)
A player who has a short-term injury can be placed on the Disabled List once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). The team will remain responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary on the salary budget. Note: the injured player will have to sit out a minimum of six MLS League matches before he can rejoin the team’s roster.

Yohan
04-04-2012, 09:20 AM
Maybe they can get that FC Edmonton kid in who played for the u23 side.

Rycroft article on Misiewicz

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/opinion/2012/04/misiewicz-impresses-on-national-stage.html?cmp=rss

J .
04-04-2012, 10:51 AM
Read the article, a good one. Sounds like he wants to play for a canadian side and it may be time to dispense away a spare part for cap room or allocation

razor787
04-04-2012, 12:24 PM
I think you're talking about a player can't play for more than two teams per year rule?

Is that the rule? Two teams in one year? If thats the case, we could sign him, but from my understanding of the rule, a team can't sign someone to a contract, and then sell him to another team. That is what would be happening here.

That withstanding, after reading that article, I am still just as doubtful it would happen. Players like to start games, not ride the bench. If he came here, he would be riding the bench while Kocic starts, and then once Frei gets back, who know's what we do with him. We may loan him out like we did with Milos, but for him he is better off playing in his hometown, where he has a better chance at snagging the #1 spot.

Stouffville_RPB
04-04-2012, 12:40 PM
He's best off in Edmonton at the moment. He came back to Canada because he missed friends,family and wanted to play in the first team. Coming to Toronto would have him away from F&F and would be in a worse situation with regards to playing time. In Edmonton he is at least battling with Monsalve for the first team.

J .
04-04-2012, 12:56 PM
Tfc seems to be pretty decent at developing keepers, Frei and Kocic. I really dont think he would miss out, moreover, I doubt they will keep both Frei and Kocic next year. Frei wont be back until anytime between July- September, if not October even. Cant have enough prospects and ones that have good potential and was trained by an EPL team doesnt hurt him at all. Its very unlikely they will get him, but with roster choices needing to be made after the season regarding our GKs, it wouldnt harm us.

Stouffville_RPB
04-04-2012, 01:10 PM
I wouldn't say TFC is good at developing keepers.

Frei was already 22 when he was selected in the draft. Even Kocic was developed in the US College system.

deschamp86
04-05-2012, 01:24 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere, but it appears Stefan Vukovic is now with Montreal. A shame that he wasn't given much of a shot with Toronto, but I'd like to see the kid in MLS so hopefully he'll be given an opportunity there.


http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2012/04/impact-u21-draws-1-1-against-rochester-rhinos

MartinUtd
04-05-2012, 01:44 PM
That's very puzzling. Then again, Makabuya never gets a chance so I can see what Vukovic might be thinking.

PopePouri
04-05-2012, 02:14 PM
To be fair Vukovic is not a natural no. 9 in the 4-3-3 Dutch system and probably more suited to a 4-4-2. It's probably why Makabuya still has a contract. He is similar to Johnson who can play all 3 positions up top.

moralis
04-05-2012, 02:47 PM
Found this article on MLS soccer (Spanish page): TFC interested in D/M Javi Calleja:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en…-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en…-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja&ei=Kfd9T-W7Os3C0AHUp7yjDg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CHAQ7gEwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmarca%2BDavid%2BRuiz%26hl%3Den%26clie nt%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26tbo%3D1%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1173%26bih%3D808%26tbs%3Dqdr:d %26prmd%3Dimvnso

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Calleja

Not sure TFC needs a left back/left midfielder. WE NEED A VERY GOOD CENTRE BACK. In addition, we have very little cap space to work with. Unless TFC release Julian De Guzman.

It also mentions TFC's interest in Murcia left back Oscar Sanchez. WINTER OR MARINER: WE NEED CENTRE BACKS NOT LEFT BACKS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_Sánchez_Fuentes

What do you guys think?

Yohan
04-05-2012, 02:50 PM
offer JDG to anyone for free transfer. pick up a good CB or two with resulting cap relief. sounds like a plan to me!

Yohan
04-05-2012, 02:59 PM
oh look. potential solution to TFC CB problem.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/04/soumare-eyeing-return-to-mls.html

08 MLS Defender of the Year finalist, Ligue 1 experience. athletic and fast CB. and only 26.

Shway
04-05-2012, 03:09 PM
oh look. potential solution to TFC CB problem.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/04/soumare-eyeing-return-to-mls.html

08 MLS Defender of the Year finalist, Ligue 1 experience. athletic and fast CB. and only 26.


definitely!...and the possibility is there
http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/allocation-ranking-feb-16-2012
Allocation Ranking (as of Feb 16, 2012)






Montreal - have so many cbs
Vancouver - couldn't afford him
New England - possible
Toronto - WE need him

iy12l
04-05-2012, 03:11 PM
wtf why did we give away our best player in our youth academy??

Sweeper
04-05-2012, 03:12 PM
What are the trade, transfer, acquisition options right now? Don't we have to wait until the trade window opens before we can make any moves? Please tell me that isn't the one in July.

ArmenJBX
04-05-2012, 03:12 PM
Oscar Sanchez can play left centerback maybe?
Not sure about him

Yohan
04-05-2012, 03:16 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en%E2%80%A6-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja



In his weekly column “Se dice en… Europa”, MARCA’s David Ruiz reveals that Spanish defender Javi Calleja could land in MLS next summer.
According to the player, Toronto FC is the MLS team interested in his services, and since his contract with current team La Liga’s Osasuna is close to expire, the Spanish defender said he is open for an opportunity in American soccer.
“Honestly I wasn’t expecting this, it was an authentic surprise for me”, Calleja said to FutbolMLS.com.
“A source told me there is a chance to play in the US, in Canada to be specific…, Toronto FC is the team interested, they have been observing my style of play, and considering my contract situation [with Osasuna], they were thinking of making a serious offer to me in case I was interested to play outside Spain”.
Reports in Spain have confirmed that Osasuna will not renew Calleja’s contract for next season.

sashavukelich
04-05-2012, 03:17 PM
Guys what is our cap-space estimate with Frei going on Season-ending Injury. Any word about Dicoy Williams?

iy12l
04-05-2012, 03:18 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en…-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja (http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en%E2%80%A6-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja)

Thank god! This means Aron will get rid of JDG!

Yohan
04-05-2012, 03:18 PM
What are the trade, transfer, acquisition options right now? Don't we have to wait until the trade window opens before we can make any moves? Please tell me that isn't the one in July.
B) TRANSFERS AND LOANS An MLS player may be transferred or loaned at any time to a team outside the League (subject to that team’s Federation’s transfer window), subject to the consent of the player.

The registration windows – the dates between which MLS may request the transfer certificate of a player under contract in another country – are as follows:

January 21 – April 15 (Primary Window)
June 27 – July 27 (Secondary Window)

***
Domestic transfer window is open until Sept something. TFC has until 15 Apr for international transfers

Yohan
04-05-2012, 03:20 PM
Guys what is our cap-space estimate with Frei going on Season-ending Injury. Any word about Dicoy Williams?

Frei's salary still hit cap space, however TFC gets roster back (this is to prevent a team from declaring a player 'injured', so that they can sign another player)

I heard Dicoy Williams will not be fit again until May some time?

Canary10
04-05-2012, 03:46 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en…-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja

Hmm, that's an interesting one. Well, looks like they are still trying to work on this. I guess Winter read John Molinaro's column this morning on you need to fix the defence, face palmed, and said "why didn't we think of that."

DoubleUp
04-05-2012, 03:48 PM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/es/news/article/2012/04/05/se-dice-en…-europa-toronto-fc-tienta-javi-calleja

seems to be listed as a midfielder and at 5'7 is to small imo for this league.

moralis
04-05-2012, 03:55 PM
Remember guys Montreal does not have the first allocation pick because they picked up Eddie Johnson with their first pick and then traded him to Seattle for Lamar Neagle and Michael Fucito.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/02/17/montreal-send-johnson-seattle-neagle-fucito

Canary10
04-05-2012, 03:57 PM
seems to be listed as a midfielder and at 5'7 is to small imo for this league.

Yeah you're right. Osasuna list him as a midfielder.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 04:06 PM
seems to be listed as a midfielder and at 5'7 is to small imo for this league.
Calleja is a left winger, but I guess he moved to LB recently? I don't know how good he is recently, but all those years in La Liga gotta count for something in terms of experience

There are a lot of guys 5'7-8" who can flat out play in MLS. Size is useful, skill is better

ArmenJBX
04-05-2012, 04:07 PM
Legit, what the hell are we doing chasing left midfielders??
We. Need. CENTERBACKS

KGH
04-05-2012, 04:09 PM
Didn't NE pick Nguyen after Van released him via the allocation? Which would put us 3rd?

TFCBarrie
04-05-2012, 04:13 PM
The more skill and experience the better. Keep bringing in any players who are an upgrade at any position.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 04:14 PM
Didn't NE pick Nguyen after Van released him via the allocation? Which would put us 3rd?
i'm not sure if Nguyen was picked up using allocation. I think Nguyen was available via waiver draft

ArmenJBX
04-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Yeah, Montreal isn't first anymore are they?
It goes Vancouver, New England, Toronto FC?

Canary10
04-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Montreal is already out due to the Johnson pick, so we're actually second then.

Canary10
04-05-2012, 04:16 PM
i'm not sure if Nguyen was picked up using allocation. I think Nguyen was available via waiver draft

I'm pretty sure it was through allocation.

ArmenJBX
04-05-2012, 04:18 PM
Nope, it was weighted lottery.

http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/news/2012/03/nguyen-proves-natural-fit-revs-new-system

DoubleUp
04-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Calleja is a left winger, but I guess he moved to LB recently? I don't know how good he is recently, but all those years in La Liga gotta count for something in terms of experience

There are a lot of guys 5'7-8" who can flat out play in MLS. Size is useful, skill is better

yes ofcourse but in this league imo you go for athleticism/size first and then
skill level because the league is based on the former
hence why marvell wynne continues to win mls team of the week honours, and aceval someone who many would argue is a far more technically superior player is having a shit show.

ArmenJBX
04-05-2012, 04:20 PM
And I just asked Kyle McCarthy from New England to confirm it for us,

1. Vancouver
2. New England
3. Toronto FC

Canary10
04-05-2012, 04:25 PM
I don't know much about him but looks like he's worth a punt if he drops in our lap.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 04:28 PM
I don't know much about him but looks like he's worth a punt if he drops in our lap.

That Chicago 08 team was pretty stacked in defence. Segares, Conde, Soumare and the weakest link was Tim Ward with Jon Busch in net

AmherstNY_TFC
04-05-2012, 04:35 PM
What about cap space? I thought that TFC was almost at the spending limit.

Jack
04-05-2012, 04:37 PM
The more skill and experience the better. Keep bringing in any players who are an upgrade at any position.
This.

Yohan
04-05-2012, 04:41 PM
What about cap space? I thought that TFC was almost at the spending limit.
TFC can waive players on semi guaranteed contracts till 1 Jul to free up cap space

Or trade players

ensco
04-05-2012, 04:48 PM
I don't think we can just "cut" JDG as special rules apply for DPs (obviously we'd just pay him to stay home, nobody is taking that contact on) - don't DPs have to do be cut in the offseason?

Yohan
04-05-2012, 05:08 PM
I don't think we can just "cut" JDG as special rules apply for DPs (obviously we'd just pay him to stay home, nobody is taking that contact on) - don't DPs have to do be cut in the offseason?

yes, for guaranteed contracts (which I'm going to guess all DP contracts are). you can cut anyone during the season. it's just you're still on the hook for their salary. unless you're on a semi guaranteed contract

DoubleUp
04-05-2012, 05:09 PM
Soumare would be a very nice aquisition.

I hope it works out for us.

[NBF]
04-05-2012, 05:27 PM
I got a name we should target for the summer:

CB- Ivan Cordoba (Colombia)

His contract with Inter Milan ends this summer. He's a guy you could bring in with experience and talent. If Nelson Rivas is in Montreal I think you could say that its possible he would go to Toronto.

jloome
04-07-2012, 01:10 AM
Spanish player linked with us. I put the link in this thread in news: http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?31106-2012-MLS-%28non-TFC%29-in-season-transfers-rumours-thread

oxygenatedbrain
04-07-2012, 02:00 PM
That's a strange article...stinks of Simon Borg's misunderstanding of both soccer and Spanish. Calleja isn't a defender but a 5' 7" left-footed midfielder, whereas Ruiz's article claims TFC have been pursuing Oscar Sanchez for months (left-back, 2nd div. Murcia), and hope to add him this summer if a buyout can be arranged.

jloome
04-07-2012, 10:09 PM
That's a strange article...stinks of Simon Borg's misunderstanding of both soccer and Spanish. \

LOL, you pegged the hell out of that one.

Yohan
04-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Simon borg is a moron

mowe
04-09-2012, 11:32 AM
TFC to sign Quillan Roberts: http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/09/toronto_fc_quillan_roberts_mls/

I would have liked to see him stay in the academy another year but I guess if he's part of the long-term plan anyway might as well get him started now.

MartinUtd
04-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Interesting. IIRC Mariner said that any available resources will have to go into signing a back up keeper. I hope this means they've realized there are more pressing matters.

pdogg
04-09-2012, 12:00 PM
It was only a matter of time before this happened. Kocic's backup, if I'm not mistaken, was from the league pool. With Frei now out for most of the season, you need something more permanent. Any other keeper out there would have to be paid above the league minimum.

Roogsy
04-09-2012, 12:02 PM
And doesn't this mean he doesn't apply vs the cap?

Yohan
04-09-2012, 12:10 PM
And doesn't this mean he doesn't apply vs the cap?
If he falls under first 20 players count towards the cap rule, which he shouldnt be so exempt from the cap

Dkolish3
04-09-2012, 12:10 PM
Well at least Roberts could give TFC's offense a boost

Red CB Toronto
04-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Good to see Quillan being signed to a first team contract. Being a homegrown player I would think was an off-budget signing, so it would not have any affect on the Reds current cap situation.

TFC/Everton
04-09-2012, 01:30 PM
Luke Wileman (https://twitter.com/#!/LukeWileman)'s Tweet:

"Interesting to see former TFC Academy FW Stefan Vukovic now with Montreal Impact U21s. Did well in CSL and was with TFC squad in preseason"

We just released him? Are you serious? This is absolutely disgusting..

nickio
04-09-2012, 01:38 PM
Yes it is disgusting..

Explains the new pearly white shiny balls the team was practicing with...

Yohan
04-09-2012, 02:22 PM
Luke Wileman (https://twitter.com/#%21/LukeWileman)'s Tweet:

"Interesting to see former TFC Academy FW Stefan Vukovic now with Montreal Impact U21s. Did well in CSL and was with TFC squad in preseason"

We just released him? Are you serious? This is absolutely disgusting..because TFCA and TFC is two separate teams, TFC did not own Vukovic. (MLS homegrown signing rules can be complicated) I'm going to guess something like Vukovic either was offered not good enough contract or none at all, and Vukovic joined IMFC as a free agent

iy12l
04-09-2012, 02:57 PM
I remember during pre-season Aron said he doesnt fit the 4-3-3 system... This is probably the biggest mistake Aron has made with our youth academy prospects

TFC/Everton
04-09-2012, 03:17 PM
Im feeling mighty discouraged about this team.

TFCBarrie
04-09-2012, 03:22 PM
I remember during pre-season Aron said he doesnt fit the 4-3-3 system... This is probably the biggest mistake Aron has made with our youth academy prospects


Considering none of us have any idea what happened, this is a completely unfair statement. For all we know Stefan could have walked into the FO, said "fuck you for not giving me a contract" and left.

iy12l
04-09-2012, 03:29 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC

When you look at our roster it shows two new players in it. One of them is Quillian Roberts and another one is Curly Chris? Who the hell is Curtly Chris???

spe18
04-09-2012, 04:21 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC

When you look at our roster it shows two new players in it. One of them is Quillian Roberts and another one is Curly Chris? Who the hell is Curtly Chris???

Seeing how I don't see Curly's name on it, I'm gonna assume someone just randomly added it in, then someone else removed it :)

Greatest Ripoff
04-09-2012, 04:28 PM
Seeing how I don't see Curly's name on it, I'm gonna assume someone just randomly added it in, then someone else removed it :)

Wow looking at TFC roster on the wiki page it great to see we have 10 players that are Canadian. And just to see how stack up against the other Canadian teams in MLS, Montreal has 3 and Vancouver has 2 (both from Southern Ontario).

West220Side
04-09-2012, 05:46 PM
With all the Vukovic talk today, I found myself on his twitter and...


Stefan Vukovic ‏ @Stefan9Vukovic (https://twitter.com/#%21/Stefan9Vukovic) Congrats to @QGoalie18 (https://twitter.com/#%21/QGoalie18) for signing with TFC! All the best <3

(https://twitter.com/#)

sampace
04-09-2012, 09:52 PM
I know he is older, but if you are looking for a leader he might add that element while we are missing our star DP? Can't be any worse than whom we tried to bring in to shore up the defence? If he is still a free agent, as far as I know he is, might come relatively cheaper for one year and a chance to be singed longer if things work out?

mowe
04-10-2012, 04:14 PM
Official release, plus interview with Quillan Roberts: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/04/reds-sign-homegrown-keeper

Crazy that he's still in high school.

MartinUtd
04-10-2012, 04:21 PM
I know he is older, but if you are looking for a leader he might add that element while we are missing our star DP? Can't be any worse than whom we tried to bring in to shore up the defence? If he is still a free agent, as far as I know he is, might come relatively cheaper for one year and a chance to be singed longer if things work out?

We need a CB though. Isn't Stalteri a FB?

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2012, 05:45 PM
We need a CB though. Isn't Stalteri a FB?
he can play CB, hes done it before

Abou Sky
04-10-2012, 05:52 PM
Official release, plus interview with Quillan Roberts: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/04/reds-sign-homegrown-keeper

Crazy that he's still in high school.

Anyone know if Frei has been put on season ending injury?

If he has and this kid is only in at the $35k min, that leaves about $100k of cap space available.

If we can buy out Harden and Dunfield (we pay them out of pocket) we will have enough to get a couple of really good defenders.

sashavukelich
04-10-2012, 05:58 PM
Hey Sky

1) It depends on the nature of those players contracts if we can 'buy them out' (guaranteed vs non-guaranteed contracts)
2) Roberts isn't in the top-20 earners (and is from academy) and therefore his salary doesn't cap towards the cap
3) There has been no official report on frei going out on season-ending injury status, but i'm certain it's been done.

Abou Sky
04-10-2012, 06:02 PM
IIRC the 'guaranteed' issue is only around DP's, I beleive we can always buy out current player contracts that are under regular MLS cap contract.

PopePouri
04-10-2012, 06:07 PM
Congrats to him.

http://youtu.be/ory5lTLAdLI

KGH
04-10-2012, 07:46 PM
Anyone know if Frei has been put on season ending injury?

If he has and this kid is only in at the $35k min, that leaves about $100k of cap space available.

If we can buy out Harden and Dunfield (we pay them out of pocket) we will have enough to get a couple of really good defenders.

Seriously?!?! I feel like I keep repeating the same thing. Frei going on IR does NOTHING for cap room.

NOTHING

NOTHING

I've posted the actual rules 3-4 times so I'm not doing it again. Just google "mls roster rules 2012".

Wooster_TFC
04-10-2012, 08:55 PM
Seriously?!?! I feel like I keep repeating the same thing. Frei going on IR does NOTHING for cap room.

NOTHING

NOTHING

I've posted the actual rules 3-4 times so I'm not doing it again. Just google "mls roster rules 2012".

While I interpret the rules in the same way as you do, it is actually rather vague. So, it is possible that being responsible for the players contract may have no cap implication at all, but just need to be paid out of cash on hand from the team.

KGH
04-10-2012, 09:02 PM
While I interpret the rules in the same way as you do, it is actually rather vague. So, it is possible that being responsible for the players contract may have no cap implication at all, but just need to be paid out of cash on hand from the team.

(K)SEASON-ENDING INJURY REPLACEMENTS (Season Ending Injury List)
A team with a player lost to a season-ending injury can place the player on the Season Ending Injury List and replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the season-ending injury list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).
(L) SHORT-TERM INJURY REPLACEMENTS (Disabled List)
A player who has a short-term injury can be placed on the Disabled List once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). The team will remain responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary on the salary budget. Note: the injured player will have to sit out a minimum of six MLS League matches before he can rejoin the team’s roster.

Abou Sky
04-10-2012, 09:09 PM
(K)SEASON-ENDING INJURY REPLACEMENTS (Season Ending Injury List)
A team with a player lost to a season-ending injury can place the player on the Season Ending Injury List and replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the season-ending injury list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).
(L) SHORT-TERM INJURY REPLACEMENTS (Disabled List)
A player who has a short-term injury can be placed on the Disabled List once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). The team will remain responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary on the salary budget. Note: the injured player will have to sit out a minimum of six MLS League matches before he can rejoin the team’s roster.

First off, I had read those rules, but I can appreciate where you are coming from.

See, I had interpreted that as in 'they freed up that space and can now use it somewhere else'

The reason I say this is because you have to sign a player BEFORE you can put the player on SEI. Why would that be the case if it didn't affect cap space?

Anyone have contacts with MLS to clear this up?

SirBobSaget
04-11-2012, 09:28 AM
The NHL Long Term Injury Cap rules are much clearer:
If a player has a legitimate long-term injury, his cap hit is still counted; however, the team is permitted to replace him with one or more players whose combined salary is equal to (or less than) that of the injured player, even if the additional players would put the team over the salary cap. If the team's cap room is larger than the injured player's cap hit, they may take on as much as their cap room; however, the injured player may not return to play until the team is again compliant with the original cap.

The MLS rules are not as clear but their wording can be interpreted to mean something similar, it is the most logical way to handle LIR. Though I could understand if the slary stays on the books because an MLS team doesn't have the mechanism of freeing cap space to accomodate return of injured player (at any point in the season) like an NHL team does through sending a player to the minors.

Abou Sky
04-11-2012, 09:19 PM
The NHL Long Term Injury Cap rules are much clearer:
If a player has a legitimate long-term injury, his cap hit is still counted; however, the team is permitted to replace him with one or more players whose combined salary is equal to (or less than) that of the injured player, even if the additional players would put the team over the salary cap. If the team's cap room is larger than the injured player's cap hit, they may take on as much as their cap room; however, the injured player may not return to play until the team is again compliant with the original cap.

The MLS rules are not as clear but their wording can be interpreted to mean something similar, it is the most logical way to handle LIR. Though I could understand if the slary stays on the books because an MLS team doesn't have the mechanism of freeing cap space to accomodate return of injured player (at any point in the season) like an NHL team does through sending a player to the minors.

As I understand it the academy is an entity unto itself and they could have Frei play there as MLS doesn't own the contracts on those guys?

Not sure Frei would appreciate it but it wouldn't be long.

They could also send him out on loan couldn't they?

Doucet3
04-12-2012, 05:59 AM
http://m.torontosun.com/2012/04/11/trade-winds-are-swirlin

Seems TFC are having "Daily talks with clubs around the league", and trading frei would make sence with his likelyhood of playing in Europe growing every year, time to cash in?.

mdc 77
04-12-2012, 06:17 AM
Horrible "article" from Kurt Larson. Also, Frei is not going to be traded while he is injured.

After seeing Joao Plata’s poor form to start the season, including the Ecuadorian in a trade might be wise before his prominence fades.

Is he actually serious?

This reads like Larson ran into Earl Cochrane on the street and was talking TFC with him, Earl isn't even the man to talk to about these issues. About Vukovic, Thomas Rongen offered a good explanation to John Molinaro already.

Most accurate assesment here is that TFC will have to look to the injured players returning for defensive help, a trade at this point seems tough to pull off.

prizby
04-12-2012, 06:55 AM
its in todays news thread

ag futbol
04-12-2012, 09:24 AM
Funny enough, I read the article and it has the picture of the exact player we should be trading for: Paulo Nagamura.

Club needs a defensive mid badly and one that can play the ball. He can do both... and he's not getting any playing time for sporting KC. I don't want to pick scapegoats but frankly JDG and Dunfield are the weakest links on this team.

TFCBarrie
04-12-2012, 09:35 AM
Funny enough, I read the article and it has the picture of the exact player we should be trading for: Paulo Nagamura.

Club needs a defensive mid badly and one that can play the ball. He can do both... and he's not getting any playing time for sporting KC. I don't want to pick scapegoats but frankly JDG and Dunfield are the weakest links on this team.

some guy named Torsten Frings isn't a good enough ball-moving DM for you?

Oldtimer
04-12-2012, 09:49 AM
Funny enough, I read the article and it has the picture of the exact player we should be trading for: Paulo Nagamura.

Club needs a defensive mid badly and one that can play the ball. He can do both... and he's not getting any playing time for sporting KC. I don't want to pick scapegoats but frankly JDG and Dunfield are the weakest links on this team.

Nagamura is an ex-TFC player who was traded by Mo because he refused to live in Canada.

Whoop
04-12-2012, 09:51 AM
Horrible "article" from Kurt Larson. Also, Frei is not going to be traded while he is injured.

Is he actually serious?

This reads like Larson ran into Earl Cochrane on the street and was talking TFC with him, Earl isn't even the man to talk to about these issues. About Vukovic, Thomas Rongen offered a good explanation to John Molinaro already.

Most accurate assesment here is that TFC will have to look to the injured players returning for defensive help, a trade at this point seems tough to pull off.

Say what you want about Larson, but in reality, he is the best reporter on the TFC beat. He's knowledgeable about the game and has something about TFC or MLS in the paper or in his blog everyday.

While trading Plata may seem ridiculous, fact of the matter is that TFC doesn't have a lot of commodities to trade in order to help their defense. Frei was one asset until he got hurt. And it's not like other teams are clamoring for the likes of Dunfield or Aceval or Harden or Stinson or Cordon to help TFC get a defender.

The adage is if you want to get something good, you have to give up something good... well usually.

So I don't expect to see any trades happen in the meantime.

Roogsy
04-12-2012, 09:57 AM
some guy named Torsten Frings isn't a good enough ball-moving DM for you?

Not while he is playing CB he's not.

mdc 77
04-12-2012, 10:04 AM
Maybe I was a bit harsh on Larson (early morning, still grumpy) but that was not a well written or researched article. Sometimes I think Larson is the best reporter on the TFC beat simply because he is the most active.

Anyways, I understand to get soemthing you need to give up something but moving Plata makes no sense at all to me. I'd love a quick fix through a trade to solve our defensive shortcomings but really I think best course of action is to somehow be patient. Wait to see how the guys who are injured look when they are healthy and wait to see what is available in the summer window. Hard to say that when we are 0-4 but not many options right now.

ArmenJBX
04-12-2012, 10:05 AM
Not while he is playing CB he's not.

+1, have some +rep too :D

DangerRed
04-12-2012, 10:25 AM
"We have conversations on a regular basis with pretty much everyone in the league," Cochrane said. "I don't think anyone's panicking."


They fucking should be.

jabbronies
04-12-2012, 11:12 AM
Say what you want about Larson, but in reality, he is the best reporter on the TFC beat. He's knowledgeable about the game and has something about TFC or MLS in the paper or in his blog everyday.

While trading Plata may seem ridiculous, fact of the matter is that TFC doesn't have a lot of commodities to trade in order to help their defense. Frei was one asset until he got hurt. And it's not like other teams are clamoring for the likes of Dunfield or Aceval or Harden or Stinson or Cordon to help TFC get a defender.

The adage is if you want to get something good, you have to give up something good... well usually.

So I don't expect to see any trades happen in the meantime.

MLS is weird and this line sometimes doesn't apply.

Case in point: Dero:
We did get Dero for a bag of balls and some pillons and then a couple years later we traded him for a beer cup and some grass feed.

T-boy
04-12-2012, 12:17 PM
Say what you want about Larson, but in reality, he is the best reporter on the TFC beat. He's knowledgeable about the game and has something about TFC or MLS in the paper or in his blog everyday.

While trading Plata may seem ridiculous, fact of the matter is that TFC doesn't have a lot of commodities to trade in order to help their defense. Frei was one asset until he got hurt. And it's not like other teams are clamoring for the likes of Dunfield or Aceval or Harden or Stinson or Cordon to help TFC get a defender.

The adage is if you want to get something good, you have to give up something good... well usually.

So I don't expect to see any trades happen in the meantime.

My arguement is that its the TACTICS we are currently using that is making the defense weaker, NOT the personnel. With the current tactics, getting a couple of different centre backs wouldn't make much difference, IMO! So, the talk of trading to improve the defense, its fairly silly!

Harden is a much improved CB, and we all agree that Ecks and Morgan are very good full backs. So, do we REALLY think that changing Aceval would make the defense suddenly good? I don't think so! It's this horrible high offside line, and the fact that the attackers are constantly giving the ball to the opposition that is making the defense bad!

Abou Sky
04-12-2012, 12:24 PM
Aceval is a GREAT defender, he hasn't been playing great all the time but if you can't see that his marking is good, he is GREAT on the ball and good off it you are blind.

He needs time to work with the team, I think he and Henry together at the back could do VERY well.

ag futbol
04-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Nagamura is an ex-TFC player who was traded by Mo because he refused to live in Canada.
Considering that was Mo Johnston, I'd take it with a grain of salt (or maybe an entire bag). I think living in Toronto and getting some playing time looks pretty good in comparison to getting spot minutes in KC at this point.


some guy named Torsten Frings isn't a good enough ball-moving DM for you?
When he's playing sure, but preferably I'd like to have more than one. Because if he gets hurt (or we have to use him in the backline) our midfield is terrible.

Whoop
04-12-2012, 01:33 PM
MLS is weird and this line sometimes doesn't apply.

Case in point: Dero:
We did get Dero for a bag of balls and some pillons and then a couple years later we traded him for a beer cup and some grass feed.

That's why I clarified... well usually.

But in both cases, Houston had to trade him and TFC had to him. The team buying held the advantage.

In this case, TFC, as the buyer, is screwed.

mastermixer
04-12-2012, 01:40 PM
Aceval is a GREAT defender, he hasn't been playing great all the time but if you can't see that his marking is good, he is GREAT on the ball and good off it you are blind.

He needs time to work with the team, I think he and Henry together at the back could do VERY well.

Don't know if I agree with you on this, but I do hope that Winter is an experienced enough coach to know if he is the right fit for TFC by now, and whether or not he should get another chance.

Abou Sky
04-12-2012, 01:55 PM
I THINK Aceval is the right fit, but just because he is the right fit it doesn't mean everything will work from day 1. It takes a bit, Henri was off playing with the U23 team for a while which kind of sucks because if he and Aceval were practicing together at the back I think it would have gone a long way towards forging that 'team'

We will see, I really hope he isn't shown the door.

DoubleUp
04-12-2012, 02:02 PM
[QUOTE=sky;1472434]Aceval is a GREAT defender, he hasn't been playing great all the time but if you can't see that his marking is good, he is GREAT on the ball and good off it you are blind.

He needs time to work with the team, I think he and Henry together at the back could do VERY well.[/QUOTE

I think aceval Was a great defender going forward in much less physical leagues.


I would like to try him in the midfield, unless he's not fit enough to make the runs.:rolleyes:

jloome
04-12-2012, 02:08 PM
Aceval is a GREAT defender, he hasn't been playing great all the time but if you can't see that his marking is good, he is GREAT on the ball and good off it you are blind.

He needs time to work with the team, I think he and Henry together at the back could do VERY well.

Craig Forrest put it as "he has yet to show he can defend at this level."

I'd say that's a pretty accurate assessment. His off-the-ball positioning is awful, by the way. Awful. In fact, outside of Terry Dunfield I can't see why he's even on the pitch as a centre half. he's short, slow and his positioning is bad. His play reminds me of Nick Garcia, so far.

I'm told he started as a midfielder in Chile and only switched to defence in the last few years. Anyone know if that's true?

DOUBLE: Good point on the style of play. Caicedo was well-regarded before he got here, but he said himself the speed and physicality were too much.

And Doneil Henry does not appear ready yet to start in MLS, although it would help if winter played him in position. It's hard to tell when he's treating him as a fullback.

Abou Sky
04-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Not marking well in a couple of incidents is not the same as being awful. Most of the time he is where he needs to be and has stopped plenty of goals.

We need our field Marshall back, we need Frings...

Stouffville_RPB
04-12-2012, 03:07 PM
Though the CB's play this season hasn't been strong their mistakes are magnified because of the poor midfield play directly in front of them (JDG and Dunfield of late).

If we had a reliable (both in terms of skill and health) CB pairing and Frings could play midfield I think the difference in this team would be like night and day.

Winter knows the issues but there isn't a point in trading players or giving up picks, allocation or anything else if you don't get a permanent solution. Once management is able to dump JDG's contract the first thing I think Winter & Co. are going to do it try to sign a quality CB.

T-boy
04-12-2012, 09:10 PM
Don't know if I agree with you on this, but I do hope that Winter is an experienced enough coach to know if he is the right fit for TFC by now, and whether or not he should get another chance.

Just like Winter got it right about Iro, Viator, and Davies?

Unfortunately Winter doesn't exactly have a great record of picking up centre backs so far at TFC - that's why some of us here are a little on the pessimistic side about Avecal.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-12-2012, 09:36 PM
Just like Winter got it right about Iro, Viator, and Davies?

Unfortunately Winter doesn't exactly have a great record of picking up centre backs so far at TFC - that's why some of us here are a little on the pessimistic side about Avecal.

Those woulda been Mariner purchases.
At least Iro is from what I remember being mentioned several times.

Thomas
04-12-2012, 09:45 PM
There will always be guys that do not work out, for whatever reason. There is a degree of trial and error involved. I agree that Winter should be subject to criticism, but you do seem to be constantly pointing fingers at him. What do I know?


Just like Winter got it right about Iro, Viator, and Davies?

Unfortunately Winter doesn't exactly have a great record of picking up centre backs so far at TFC - that's why some of us here are a little on the pessimistic side about Avecal.

T-boy
04-12-2012, 10:38 PM
There will always be guys that do not work out, for whatever reason. There is a degree of trial and error involved. I agree that Winter should be subject to criticism, but you do seem to be constantly pointing fingers at him. What do I know?

Don't you point the finger at the manager of ANY company in any industry that is failing? Take any job - take my own job - if my manager SUCKS, no matter how much effort I put in, my company will fail. If my manager restricts me to only working certain times or days, or working in certain styles "or I will not be working there anymore", that's then my manager's fault and not my fault, isn't it?

Winter is the manager - the head coach, and all the decisions at the club ultimately come form him at the top of the heirarchy. You can blame Mariner, but I don't believe that Winter has NO say in the signings the club make. That would be terrible for the football club.

So yes, I point fingers at Winter, as he is the top guy, the manager, and where all the decisions come from. You can't blame individual players, but you can definitely point fingers at the manager.

TFCBarrie
04-13-2012, 08:18 AM
Don't you point the finger at the manager of ANY company in any industry that is failing? Take any job - take my own job - if my manager SUCKS, no matter how much effort I put in, my company will fail. If my manager restricts me to only working certain times or days, or working in certain styles "or I will not be working there anymore", that's then my manager's fault and not my fault, isn't it?

Winter is the manager - the head coach, and all the decisions at the club ultimately come form him at the top of the heirarchy. You can blame Mariner, but I don't believe that Winter has NO say in the signings the club make. That would be terrible for the football club.

So yes, I point fingers at Winter, as he is the top guy, the manager, and where all the decisions come from. You can't blame individual players, but you can definitely point fingers at the manager.

If I suck at MY job, my manager will not get fired. If I can't live up to what's expected of me, NO ONE other than myself is to blame.

T-boy
04-13-2012, 08:31 AM
If I suck at MY job, my manager will not get fired. If I can't live up to what's expected of me, NO ONE other than myself is to blame.

But if your manager then hired another person who sucked, then they got fired, then hired yet another person who sucked - eventually the CEO of the company would realise that it isn't the employees who sucks, its the manager above them!

DoubleUp
04-13-2012, 09:03 AM
just more excuses to fire another manager "The employees suck"

compare our starting 11 with others in mls and most of the time its men vs boys.

mariners fault for bringing shit players in and winters fault for picking them.


but whoevers finding the players! needs to up his level.

I see winters vision with his tactics but imo he needs better players in most departments to make it look as crisp as it supposed to be. higheriq/technical ability

Ageroo
04-13-2012, 09:25 AM
But if your manager then hired another person who sucked, then they got fired, then hired yet another person who sucked - eventually the CEO of the company would realise that it isn't the employees who sucks, its the manager above them!

I am on neither side of the pro/com Winter debate....but I think your analogy about the manager hiring continuous employees that suck doesn't really fly. You are basing their hiring on their resume. If their resume is good you want them on your team. How they perform is essentially up to the individual themselves.

How is it the managers fault that once they get to the team that they underperform? Yes you can say he is employing the tactics...but in the end if the player looks like garbage that isn't because the manager has put him in a poor position. It is because he can't really do what is asked of him....again my opinion and not defending Winter on this.....just arguing the point being made.

brad
04-13-2012, 09:32 AM
Just like Winter got it right about Iro, Viator, and Davies?

Unfortunately Winter doesn't exactly have a great record of picking up centre backs so far at TFC - that's why some of us here are a little on the pessimistic side about Avecal.

Playing devils advocate a bit here - but how much cap space is there to work with for defenders? Is it a case that he doesn't know how to pick defenders, or a case that he doesn't know how to pick defenders that will play for 5 figures or low 6 figures?

Roogsy
04-13-2012, 09:41 AM
If I suck at MY job, my manager will not get fired. If I can't live up to what's expected of me, NO ONE other than myself is to blame.

In a well run business, your manager will eventually get fired if his hiring practices reveal he hires people that suck at their jobs. He doesn't get fired for one guy, but could get fired for several bad hirings. Especially if hiring people for those roles is considered a significant part of his position.

In a company where a manager is not involved in the hiring, then no, he would not get fired for hiring poor people, HR would be taken to task for that.

The point is, someone beyond the employee themselves is responsible for poor hiring decisions. Companies that don't hold people responsible for bad hiring practices eventually suffer the consequences.


But if your manager then hired another person who sucked, then they got fired, then hired yet another person who sucked - eventually the CEO of the company would realise that it isn't the employees who sucks, its the manager above them!

Exactly.

Abou Sky
04-13-2012, 09:43 AM
Playing devils advocate a bit here - but how much cap space is there to work with for defenders? Is it a case that he doesn't know how to pick defenders, or a case that he doesn't know how to pick defenders that will play for 5 figures or low 6 figures?

Can't say the man doesn't have a point...

You can't be dumb and be a good defender, IMHO defenders are second smartest guys on the field after the keeper.

This means that likely the people who are defenders could have other careers and $35k a year isn't going to attract the best and brightest.

TFCBarrie
04-13-2012, 10:10 AM
In a well run business, your manager will eventually get fired if his hiring practices reveal he hires people that suck at their jobs. He doesn't get fired for one guy, but could get fired for several bad hirings. Especially if hiring people for those roles is considered a significant part of his position.

In a company where a manager is not involved in the hiring, then no, he would not get fired for hiring poor people, HR would be taken to task for that.

The point is, someone beyond the employee themselves is responsible for poor hiring decisions. Companies that don't hold people responsible for bad hiring practices eventually suffer the consequences.



Exactly.

Fair enough. To all.

mcolvy
04-14-2012, 01:06 PM
Looking at our squad, besides the two big DPs our team is no different. These guys are also old and only have a year or two left in the tank. Then what? Bringing in high prices management should have long term returns and I don't see that. The only "long term" returns is the academy and that has nothing to do with Winter and Mariner other then them both being avocets for youth development (which most people are...).

So, when Frings and Koevs retire.. as they won't play after the latest, end of next season. Then what?

What stamp has really been put on this team?

Other then Plata, Soolsma and Eckersley, there isn't anything different or special about this team within the MLS. Not a whole lot. I look at those three as the stamp. It is a decent one, I mean its a better core then some teams, but overall pretty bland.

Looking to a similar style SKC (Kansas City) who also play a 4-3-3 with attacking fullbacks, one could argue that they play it better then we do with more flow. They have the same 4-3-3 formation that almost takes a 4-5-1 look (4-2-3-1) when the attacking mid pushes up the field/ wingers drop back. Now maybe its the players, but from what I've seen they play it better then us. They look "pretty", but still win games. Why is Peter Vermes, a US nobody, doing a better job then Aron Winter, the pedigree and amazing?

So now what?

Abou Sky
04-14-2012, 01:41 PM
Do you guys think that if we were 14 games in with 20-25 points and the last 4 being losses we would be as mad?

Teams have losing streaks, hopefully it ends today and we find our feet and can get 20+ pts in the next 10 games.

Basically what I am saying is:

Calm down!

Ajax TFC
04-14-2012, 01:50 PM
who else has management brought in? how about turning that lazy ass Santos into Avila, or getting Ryan Johnson. Are those not worth mentioning?

Thomas
04-14-2012, 02:06 PM
I don't follow you on few of your points. You say that bringing in high prices management should have long term returns, and you dont see that. Has the current management team been in place for a long time? Re the 2 newer DPs and that they might only have a few more years in the tank. Well, their contracts will be up in a couple of years, so that's good timing. Besides, it would probably be unrealistic to expect more than 3 years of good production with established veterans.





Looking at our squad, besides the two big DPs our team is no different. These guys are also old and only have a year or two left in the tank. Then what? Bringing in high prices management should have long term returns and I don't see that. The only "long term" returns is the academy and that has nothing to do with Winter and Mariner other then them both being avocets for youth development (which most people are...).

So, when Frings and Koevs retire.. as they won't play after the latest, end of next season. Then what?

What stamp has really been put on this team?

Other then Plata, Soolsma and Eckersley, there isn't anything different or special about this team within the MLS. Not a whole lot. I look at those three as the stamp. It is a decent one, I mean its a better core then some teams, but overall pretty bland.

Looking to a similar style SKC (Kansas City) who also play a 4-3-3 with attacking fullbacks, one could argue that they play it better then we do with more flow. They have the same 4-3-3 formation that almost takes a 4-5-1 look (4-2-3-1) when the attacking mid pushes up the field/ wingers drop back. Now maybe its the players, but from what I've seen they play it better then us. They look "pretty", but still win games. Why is Peter Vermes, a US nobody, doing a better job then Aron Winter, the pedigree and amazing?

So now what?

sashavukelich
04-14-2012, 08:24 PM
can the mods please oh please bring this thread back to topic.

ag futbol
04-14-2012, 10:00 PM
who else has management brought in? how about turning that lazy ass Santos into Avila, or getting Ryan Johnson. Are those not worth mentioning?
Santos is playing pretty well so far this year, if his stats are any indication... In fact, he's single handedly outscoring our entire roster in MLS play (ouch).

Ajax TFC
04-15-2012, 12:05 AM
Santos played best with DeRo, so expect him to be decent this year. That said, last year he was a complete opportunity waster.
Here' (http://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/season?season_year=2011&season_type=REG&team=ALL&group=SHOTS&op=Search&form_build_id=form-2ffabdeba938de18d4a0fda16a819788&form_id=mls_stats_individual_form)s last year's league leaders in total shots. Santos comes fifth with 92 shots. Of those, only 25 five were on target. Of those, eight went in. Knowing Santos' style, I'd say most of those shots probably came in situations where shooting was far from the best option. So if only 25 of his 92 shots were on target, that means 67 individual attacks turned into goal kicks through him alone.
At the end of the season he got released, but we got Avila out of it.

JuliquE
04-15-2012, 02:23 AM
can the mods please oh please bring this thread back to topic.
Therein is the issue with these consolidation threads.

The fact is that, with the news of any player coming in, you will sometimes stray slightly off-topic, albeit still somewhat relative to what's happening. With individual player threads, if not for the league, then, at least, for OUR club, it doesn't hurt so much.. because, they are, mostly, shorter threads and the titles help with navigation.

Some may say that the same things are being said, but I think that this can be true about the whole damn forum.. making it pointless to single out discussions on something as integral to our club's success as player acquisitions and dealings surrounding the process. Eh.. what do I know?

ag futbol
04-15-2012, 12:00 PM
Santos played best with DeRo, so expect him to be decent this year. That said, last year he was a complete opportunity waster.
Here' (http://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/season?season_year=2011&season_type=REG&team=ALL&group=SHOTS&op=Search&form_build_id=form-2ffabdeba938de18d4a0fda16a819788&form_id=mls_stats_individual_form)s last year's league leaders in total shots. Santos comes fifth with 92 shots. Of those, only 25 five were on target. Of those, eight went in. Knowing Santos' style, I'd say most of those shots probably came in situations where shooting was far from the best option. So if only 25 of his 92 shots were on target, that means 67 individual attacks turned into goal kicks through him alone.
At the end of the season he got released, but we got Avila out of it.
I know people love to quote that stat, but I'm not a huge fan of it because if you never attempt it ... it won't go in. If we look at something like this in isolation: we'd be rewarding strikers who never get to these opportunities in the first place, either by a function of not being in position or by simply losing the ball. I don't think a shot on net (no matter how speculative), is a bad outcome all things considered.

I guess, what I'm trying to really get at is: it's really hard to accurately quantify someone's output through stats .. and if you are, the best metric is still goals scored (for strikers at least).

moralis
04-15-2012, 12:08 PM
Seems like Paul Mariner was trying to sign a European centre back, but talks broke off last Thursday according to Gareth Wheeler of TSN Radio:

@TorontoFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/TorontoFC) Paul Mariner says on @TSN1050Radio (http://twitter.com/#%21/TSN1050Radio) #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC) was in for a European centre-back to bring to the club. Talks broke down Thursday. #MLS (http://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23MLS)

http://twitter.com/#!/gareth_wheeler/status/191257656944635905

Man, we can't can a break. So frustrated.

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 12:15 PM
Think this obsession with a cb is killing the team, we need a athletic box to box/denfensive midfielder more, also a more dynamic winger/striker to play up top with koevermans and johnson, defenders dont score goals.

Strikers do!. Now because of moaning from the fans this team is being built wrong and its costing us, soon everybody on the roster will be a defender.:picard:

ArmenJBX
04-15-2012, 12:25 PM
LOL We have Torsten Frings, alongside Luis Silva and Eric Avila/Terry Dunfield/Nick Soolsma we should be fine in the midfield, SO LONG AS FRINGS IS PLAYING THERE!
Cann looked like a real leader at the back and Doneil Henry didn't play terribly either - Logan Emory would be the one player to benefit the most from Cann, as he just needs that's direction to be effective.

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 12:38 PM
LOL We have Torsten Frings, alongside Luis Silva and Eric Avila/Terry Dunfield/Nick Soolsma we should be fine in the midfield, SO LONG AS FRINGS IS PLAYING THERE!
Cann looked like a real leader at the back and Doneil Henry didn't play terribly either - Logan Emory would be the one player to benefit the most from Cann, as he just needs that's direction to be effective.


are you serious about our midfield being fine. I really can't tell.

reggie
04-15-2012, 01:24 PM
Seems like Paul Mariner was trying to sign a European centre back, but talks broke off last Thursday according to Gareth Wheeler of TSN Radio:

@TorontoFC (http://twitter.com/#!/TorontoFC) Paul Mariner says on @TSN1050Radio (http://twitter.com/#!/TSN1050Radio) #TFC (http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23TFC) was in for a European centre-back to bring to the club. Talks broke down Thursday. #MLS (http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23MLS)

http://twitter.com/#!/gareth_wheeler/status/191257656944635905

Man, we can't can a break. So frustrated.

sounds like mo all over again...we could of signed but...excuse after excuse..

mcolvy
04-15-2012, 02:58 PM
Seems like Paul Mariner was trying to sign a European centre back, but talks broke off last Thursday according to Gareth Wheeler of TSN Radio:

@TorontoFC (http://twitter.com/#!/TorontoFC) Paul Mariner says on @TSN1050Radio (http://twitter.com/#!/TSN1050Radio) #TFC (http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23TFC) was in for a European centre-back to bring to the club. Talks broke down Thursday. #MLS (http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23MLS)

http://twitter.com/#!/gareth_wheeler/status/191257656944635905

Man, we can't can a break. So frustrated.

Hmm. its weird for management to say these things out loud. Mariner isn't just dumb, there must be a reason why he was vocal about it. Maybe to get leverage in the negotiation or something. He wouldn't tease the fans like this unless there was reason too.

mcolvy
04-15-2012, 02:59 PM
If we are looking into a dynamic forward. Arjen Robben is rumoured to want out of Munich :D :D :D

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 03:00 PM
If we are looking into a dynamic forward. Arjen Robben is rumoured to want out of Munich :D :D :D



we are 0-5 and your treating this like yukyuks:facepalm:

MartinUtd
04-15-2012, 03:05 PM
are you serious about our midfield being fine. I really can't tell.

It's not as bad as it seems. When you have bad defenders hoofing the ball over them it's hard to gauge how effective they are.

Red CB Toronto
04-15-2012, 03:09 PM
Sorry to see Brian Rowe move onto Portland, would have been nice to see him at least make an appearance in a reserve game. At least he was kind enough to sign the TFC photo a friend of mine took during the warmups before the game vs. Columbus. Will be nice when Frei comes back.

ArmenJBX
04-15-2012, 03:16 PM
are you serious about our midfield being fine. I really can't tell.

Well, fine in the concept that we're playing in. I don't know if we'd be fine for the MLS.
In the 4-3-3 we need three distinct midfielders; the defensive midfielder (Busquets), the link up midfielder (Xavi) and the attacking midfielder (Iniesta).
Torsten Frings fits the first role to a tee.
Luis Silva I can see being the link-up midfielder since he has an acute sense of both his positioning and that of those around him. He can also pass well and moves into space.
Eric Avila and Nick Soolsma are both...i guess, "options" for the attacking midfield spot, depending on our opponent, one would be more favourable than the other.

Not ideal, but it is MLS we're talking about; we make do with what we can get.

That being said, Aron Winter is determined that he can fit the square peg through the round hole. He is banking on the fact that the 4-3-3 will work in MLS, eventually. Personally, I think we need to control the midfield and put two strikers up, instead of playing with four forwards at any given time, but that's just me. If Aron Winter's model is being followed, then yes, I'd say we're fine in the midfield, simply because we're fulfilling the criteria of his system.

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 03:16 PM
Our defenders are Mls level. Anybody without knowledge of the game can blame the defence......thats easy. Anybody that knows anything about football knows that tfc doenst have bad defenders per say. We have/had(our problem) isbad TEAM/SET PIECE for ever. Blaming defenders is easy and one of the real reason we are in this mess.
compound that with not having a true box to box destroyer and thats tfc.................but know its the defence!!!
our attackers are bench quality at best. hence why we string a couple passes/chances together but can't get the ball in the net, nobody in our attack would start else where bar koevermans/Johnson.

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 03:33 PM
Well, fine in the concept that we're playing in. I don't know if we'd be fine for the MLS.
In the 4-3-3 we need three distinct midfielders; the defensive midfielder (Busquets), the link up midfielder (Xavi) and the attacking midfielder (Iniesta).
Torsten Frings fits the first role to a tee.
Luis Silva I can see being the link-up midfielder since he has an acute sense of both his positioning and that of those around him. He can also pass well and moves into space.
Eric Avila and Nick Soolsma are both...i guess, "options" for the attacking midfield spot, depending on our opponent, one would be more favourable than the other.


Not ideal, but it is MLS we're talking about; we make do with what we can get.

That being said, Aron Winter is determined that he can fit the square peg through the round hole. He is banking on the fact that the 4-3-3 will work in MLS, eventually. Personally, I think we need to control the midfield and put two strikers up, instead of playing with four forwards at any given time, but that's just me. If Aron Winter's model is being followed, then yes, I'd say we're fine in the midfield, simply because we're fulfilling the criteria of his system.


tortsen frings is no longer mobile, and we would be better playing him further up the pitch............he is not as effective as alonso, beckerman or even mindo in this role and was rounded easily during his first matches for us in the midfield and looked gassed many times.

Avila/soolsma are not the answer and Silva does not have enough ability to be truely effective/productive in such a low quality team atm.


4-3-3 can work we just need different personel in a couple key positions.

ArmenJBX
04-15-2012, 03:41 PM
Beckerman and Alonso aren't playing the same role as Frings.

Frings as the defensive midfielder is what he was signed here to play as. We've become so accustomed to him being in the back line that I think we've forgotten that that was a stop-gap measure. Silva is more than capable of playing as link up, and Frings doesn't need to be mobile or fast, just smart with his passing, which he is. That's his job in the system that we have.

Like I outlined before, and as you said too, Avila and Soolsma have not proven themselves as attacking midfielders - it's the position that, well...Dwayne De Rosario would have been perfect for. In any case, he's not here, and we have what we have.

Honestly, this squad is sufficient, if you ask me. They just need to get scoring. They look snakebitten, that's for sure.

moralis
04-15-2012, 03:59 PM
Today is the last day for MLS teams to sign players on a transfer or a loan deal:

(B) TRANSFERS AND LOANS
An MLS player may be transferred or loaned at any time to a team outside the League (subject to that team’s Federation’s transfer window), subject to the consent of the player.

The registration windows – the dates between which MLS may request the transfer certificate of a player under contract in another country – are as follows:

January 21 – April 15 (Primary Window)
June 27 – July 27 (Secondary Window)

http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/roster-rules-and-regulations

Looks like Houston will be the only club to do that with the signing of Midfielder Luis Advincula:

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://elcomercio.pe/deportes/1401965/noticia-luis-advincula-esta-punto-fichado-club-mls&ei=wDaLT8yhJ_C20AGwsa39CQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLuis%2BAdv%C3%ADncula%2Best%C3%A1%2Ba %2Bpunto%2Bde%2Bser%2Bfichado%2Bpor%2Bclub%2Bde%2B la%2BMLS%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbMs%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dimvnso

Maybe Mariner can reignite those discussions with that mysterious European centre back.

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Beckerman and Alonso aren't playing the same role as Frings.

Frings as the defensive midfielder is what he was signed here to play as. We've become so accustomed to him being in the back line that I think we've forgotten that that was a stop-gap measure. Silva is more than capable of playing as link up, and Frings doesn't need to be mobile or fast, just smart with his passing, which he is. That's his job in the system that we have.

Like I outlined before, and as you said too, Avila and Soolsma have not proven themselves as attacking midfielders - it's the position that, well...Dwayne De Rosario would have been perfect for. In any case, he's not here, and we have what we have.

Honestly, this squad is sufficient, if you ask me. They just need to get scoring. They look snakebitten, that's for sure.


I know why frings was brought! and you are wrong because alonso and beckerman are Holding/defensive midfielders in their respective teams which is the exact role frings is supposed to play in an athletic league (mls), frings passing is good but we were still getting over run in the midfield with him there(watch the games he played in the midfield again), He is not a destroyer anymore(this is not 2006).

ArmenJBX
04-15-2012, 05:05 PM
I know why frings was brought! and you are wrong because alonso and beckerman are Holding/defensive midfielders in their respective teams which is the exact role frings is supposed to play in an athletic league (mls), frings passing is good but we were still getting over run in the midfield with him there(watch the games he played in the midfield again), He is not a destroyer anymore(this is not 2006).


Beckerman also plays beside another CM, like Luis Gil, Javier Morales, Will Johnson, Cody Arnaux, Ned Grabavoy, and jeez, just looking at RSL, they have way more depth than we can even hope for at this point :|

My point was that the other two teams don't play 4-3-3 which goes back to what I was saying - in our system, Frings "fits" the position he's supposed to be playing in. No one is asking him to be a destroyer, he's a distributor.

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 05:30 PM
Beckerman also plays beside another CM, like Luis Gil, Javier Morales, Will Johnson, Cody Arnaux, Ned Grabavoy, and jeez, just looking at RSL, they have way more depth than we can even hope for at this point :|

My point was that the other two teams don't play 4-3-3 which goes back to what I was saying - in our system, Frings "fits" the position he's supposed to be playing in. No one is asking him to be a destroyer, he's a distributor.


I never asked about Rsl's depth. My initial comment was that fringes is not even as good as the above 3 mentioned in the holding midfielder role, his midfield workrate is overstated alot on this forum.

Canary10
04-15-2012, 05:32 PM
DoubleUp does have a point that we do lack a destroyer type defensive midfielder. Like a Yaya Toure or a DeJong. Frings can be that - his tackling is far better than most MLS players who seem to think running over someone is a tackle - but we don't have a second.

That's where, imo, people have JDG all wrong. JDG is NOT a defensive midfielder like a Toure. He doesn't have the size or the tackling ability. Really he is a deep lying playmaker. He should be played much farther up the field than he has been lately. Sitting behind the forwards and distributing balls left and right is where he does his best work. Coincidentally, we've also not had sustained pressure very much this year.

iy12l
04-15-2012, 06:57 PM
I never asked about Rsl's depth. My initial comment was that fringes is not even as good as the above 3 mentioned in the holding midfielder role, his midfield workrate is overstated alot on this forum.

Wow.. this is the dumbest thing i ever heard

Ajax TFC
04-15-2012, 07:04 PM
I know people love to quote that stat, but I'm not a huge fan of it because if you never attempt it ... it won't go in. If we look at something like this in isolation: we'd be rewarding strikers who never get to these opportunities in the first place, either by a function of not being in position or by simply losing the ball. I don't think a shot on net (no matter how speculative), is a bad outcome all things considered.

I guess, what I'm trying to really get at is: it's really hard to accurately quantify someone's output through stats .. and if you are, the best metric is still goals scored (for strikers at least).
While it is true that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, this stat actually does show how selfish he was. When you look at the other players up there with him in total shots, they all have a lot more on target, and almost all of them have more goals. Also, I don't just look at the stat, I look at the WAY he plays. He takes shots from EVERYWHERE, and the occasional time that it goes in doesn't make up for the shit loads of attacks that were ended by one of his ridiculous long shots. Most of his shots weren't because he got himself into a good position, they were because he felt like shooting the ball.

That stat is total shots, not shots on net. he had 25 shots on net, 92 shots in total

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 07:53 PM
Wow.. this is the dumbest thing i ever heard

clearly you havent been reading over your own posts.

ArmenJBX
04-15-2012, 07:55 PM
clearly you havent been reading over your own posts.

Guys, no need to fight.
It's just a discussion! :D

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 08:05 PM
Guys, no need to fight.
It's just a discussion! :D

fair enough!

iy12l
04-15-2012, 08:55 PM
It doesn't matter how old Frings is, He will always be better than beckerman, Alonso, etc.. because of his comfortability with the ball, his passing, his vision, his experice, his leadership, his positioning, and his tackling. It doesnt matter if Frings is slow too because when he has the ball he never loses it and always completes his passes. When he doesnt have the ball he knows form experince where to position himself like how he stopped Estrada goal and Dero from scoring in extratime last year which ended 3-3. But i guess your a typical Canadian that only watches tfc when it comes to soccer. Watch European football, Players like Puyol, Ambrosini, and Giggs are old but their experice and leadership proves on the pitch everytime that they are still one of the best. A good example is Scholes' return to Man Utd, once he returned they played much better as a team and are overtook their rivals, Man City, in the premier league.

Rene Kingsriver
04-15-2012, 09:17 PM
It doesn't matter how old Frings is, He will always be better than beckerman, Alonso, etc.. because of his comfortability with the ball, his passing, his vision, his experice, his leadership, his positioning, and his tackling. It doesnt matter if Frings is slow too because when he has the ball he never loses it and always completes his passes. When he doesnt have the ball he knows form experince where to position himself like how he stopped Estrada goal and Dero from scoring in extratime last year which ended 3-3. But i guess your a typical Canadian that only watches tfc when it comes to soccer. Watch European football, Players like Puyol, Ambrosini, and Giggs are old but their experice and leadership proves on the pitch everytime that they are still one of the best. A good example is Scholes' return to Man Utd, once he returned they played much better as a team and are overtook their rivals, Man City, in the premier league.

easy there sunshine, show a little respect

DoubleUp
04-15-2012, 09:58 PM
It doesn't matter how old Frings is, He will always be better than beckerman, Alonso, etc.. because of his comfortability with the ball, his passing, his vision, his experice, his leadership, his positioning, and his tackling. It doesnt matter if Frings is slow too because when he has the ball he never loses it and always completes his passes. When he doesnt have the ball he knows form experince where to position himself like how he stopped Estrada goal and Dero from scoring in extratime last year which ended 3-3. But i guess your a typical Canadian that only watches tfc when it comes to soccer. Watch European football, Players like Puyol, Ambrosini, and Giggs are old but their experice and leadership proves on the pitch everytime that they are still one of the best. A good example is Scholes' return to Man Utd, once he returned they played much better as a team and are overtook their rivals, Man City, in the premier league.


If frings was what your making him out to be he would be still playing in the top flight, the man has gained weight and lost a step. If you cant comprehend this fact then I have nothing more to say to you about the matter. I never once mentioned his age, I mentioned the fact that he is not torsten frings of 2006. Meaning his work rate has strongely diminshed!. And as far as being a typical Canadian about football, I have 3 cousins that played cmnt and my younger brother who was involved in the under-20 setup plus a family friend who played in the world cup my football back ground is extensive so please ......cut the crap.

iy12l
04-16-2012, 01:09 AM
If frings was what your making him out to be he would be still playing in the top flight, the man has gained weight and lost a step. If you cant comprehend this fact then I have nothing more to say to you about the matter. I never once mentioned his age, I mentioned the fact that he is not torsten frings of 2006. Meaning his work rate has strongely diminshed!. And as far as being a typical Canadian about football, I have 3 cousins that played cmnt and my younger brother who was involved in the under-20 setup plus a family friend who played in the world cup my football back ground is extensive so please ......cut the crap.

It was Frings that decided to leave the top flight of football so he can start a new adventure (he said that himself in an interview), sure he gained weight and lost a step, but he still is the best holding midfielder in this league. I know he isnt as good as he was in his days, but he is much better than Beckerman and Alosno. I remember last season when we beat RSL 1-0 at home Frings was bossing around the entire rsl team and Beckerman in that game was like a ghost while Frings was man of the match. After the Chicago game we are going to face RSL, im not saying that we will win, but im pretty sure Frings will kick some ass as usual.

Waggy
04-16-2012, 01:43 AM
Uh, why's everyone worried about a defender? Our 2 best defenders returned last week/are coming back this week (Frings may not play CB, but he's our defence general). Our problem is on the scoring/possession front. If we give another team 60-65%, our D is going to be under strain. I actually think our back 4 have looked pretty good outside of a few brain farts (and that'll happen in MLS)

TFCBarrie
04-16-2012, 07:45 AM
I know more about FOOTBALL than anyone. ever.



*this thread in a nutshell

T-boy
04-16-2012, 08:16 AM
It was Frings that decided to leave the top flight of football so he can start a new adventure (he said that himself in an interview), sure he gained weight and lost a step, but he still is the best holding midfielder in this league. I know he isnt as good as he was in his days, but he is much better than Beckerman and Alosno. I remember last season when we beat RSL 1-0 at home Frings was bossing around the entire rsl team and Beckerman in that game was like a ghost while Frings was man of the match. After the Chicago game we are going to face RSL, im not saying that we will win, but im pretty sure Frings will kick some ass as usual.

We shouldn't be comparing Frings to Alonso and Beckerman. We need to be comparing DeGuzman to those two players.

Imagine having Frings and Beckerman or Alonso as our central midfield pairing? Now that is the basis of a good team! Beckerman and Alonso earn peanuts in comparison to the great JDG!

Canary10
04-16-2012, 08:35 AM
Frings is the best player in the league, period. He only doesn't get that recognition because MLS brass are all in the US and have their heads up their asses (and they're still pissed about that hand ball from the 2002 World Cup). Has always been a better player than Beckham too.

Read something on twitter today about Rohan Ricketts possibly training with TFC over the summer.

DoubleUp
04-16-2012, 11:44 AM
Frings is the best player in the league, period. He only doesn't get that recognition because MLS brass are all in the US and have their heads up their asses (and they're still pissed about that hand ball from the 2002 World Cup). Has always been a better player than Beckham too.

Read something on twitter today about Rohan Ricketts possibly training with TFC over the summer.

I think Henry is best Dp in this league. frings is good but Henry is still great..............hence loan spells at arsenal.

DoubleUp
04-16-2012, 01:18 PM
Florian Kringe......would make a great midfielder to pair with frings, on loan at hertha out contract this summer with dortmund.

mcolvy
04-17-2012, 11:29 PM
Beckerman and Alonso aren't playing the same role as Frings.

Frings as the defensive midfielder is what he was signed here to play as. We've become so accustomed to him being in the back line that I think we've forgotten that that was a stop-gap measure. Silva is more than capable of playing as link up, and Frings doesn't need to be mobile or fast, just smart with his passing, which he is. That's his job in the system that we have.

Like I outlined before, and as you said too, Avila and Soolsma have not proven themselves as attacking midfielders - it's the position that, well...Dwayne De Rosario would have been perfect for. In any case, he's not here, and we have what we have.

Honestly, this squad is sufficient, if you ask me. They just need to get scoring. They look snakebitten, that's for sure.

Armen, I like your method of comparing to the big clubs in Europe. Obviously they are at a different calibre, but since even questionable soccer fans can relate to them its very effective in discussion.

DeRo and Avila are two different types of guys for the Attacking Mid position.
Now all this talk about Avila or Soolsma (which he should and will primarily play as a winger because he is dope at it) at the attacking midfield role confuses me because Winter has shown time and time again that he prefers Johnson in that role. Usually later in games to get a different look hell bring on one of our plethora of AM's, but scared to sacrifice a hot and dangerous Johnson, he is kept on the field- on the wing. But yes Johnson. Who is more similar to DeRo then to Avila. Here how I see it. Winter from day one wanted DeRo in that role, despite the fact he wasn't comfortable there/ and what not. Clearly Winter sees marot in that type of player. Lets look at some Armen examples.

Johnson and DeRo are more of Bayern's Muller type AM (Johnson isn't as much of a passer or as smart as Muller though). They play as an attacking mid/second striker, making runs off the back of the target man. This is very different then the game Ozil chooses to play (Real Madrid), a fellow German International alongside Muller. Ozil/Sneijder type of AM is what Avila/Silva fit. A smaller agile player who works to move the ball around as a pivot, more then doing something themselves.

Both have proved effective. But at the same time Muller has proven himself on the wing, and Ozil has as well. Both have to make way for each other on the national team. (And Ozil make way for Kaka). They line up beside each other and can switch and mix and match and do a "total" football approach nicely. I like having one of each on the field, and then maybe pairing em with a Plata, someone who can change a game at a moments notice. Burt

I compare Bayerns style to ours very much, and if others can't tell (and even the German World Cup team of 2010), TFC plays a 4-2-3-1 now a days without Frings. With Johnson pushing up as a second striker, and with the wingers being instructed to track back to help out a very shaky defense..... you should see this too. Offense only through wing play. We win or we lose on the wing...if only we had Robben crossing the ball in... but yeah.. though Id like to add the 4-2-3-1 came to being a "formation" originally as a 4-3-3, then someone was like ...we can make formations more complex to a 4-set instead of 3 and break the midfield into two parts... Mourinho is famous for a 4-3-3 and goes back n fourth b/w it and a 4-2-3-1 while using generally the same personnel. But If your going to play such an offensive game... you gotta have good, fast 1v1 defenders in the back... whoops.

Oh.. and all this talk a bout a "Work horse" needed in midfield.... Well its cause were missing a Schweinsteiger :P

ArmenJBX
04-17-2012, 11:33 PM
LOL couldn't have said it better myself!

We need a player similar to Schweinsteiger and all we have is a de Guzman and a Dunfield! :D

Edit: If people agree with my opinions (which are trademarked, by the way!) don't forget to click the reputation button!
Roogsy has TWO (2) green boxes already! :D Yes, I'm jealous.

Roogsy
04-17-2012, 11:41 PM
I will admit...this thread is very informative for me. When I played, tactics were much more basic and my job was basically the stopper in front of the net with maybe a couple of broken legs here and there. ;)

I've been thinking of taking some coaching classes and maybe volunteering in local leagues. These kinds of discussions help teach me things I didn't know.

mcolvy
04-17-2012, 11:51 PM
I will admit...this thread is very informative for me. When I played, tactics were much more basic and my job was basically the stopper in front of the net with maybe a couple of broken legs here and there. ;)

I've been thinking of taking some coaching classes and maybe volunteering in local leagues. These kinds of discussions help teach me things I didn't know.

Haha I hear ya bud. With the sweeper, stopper back. The good ol' diamond defense. Pshhh never did a CSL/OYSL soccer team have a flat 4 man back...totally overrated around here.

But yeah. Im also getting involved in coaching, since the pro career dreams aren't quite happening..ATM;). The OSA is a joke though. they concentrate more on teaching coaches to not be rasict, sexist, skillist and how the game is 'fun', rather then developing coaching to effectively each technical skills. Coaches need to learn how to teach, not how to manage people.

Managing people is a skill you develop on your own. Its like taking a business management course... god commerce is dumb...might be a little bias in there.

Roogsy
04-17-2012, 11:53 PM
:thumbsup:

Oldtimer
04-18-2012, 06:28 AM
I've been thinking of taking some coaching classes and maybe volunteering in local leagues. These kinds of discussions help teach me things I didn't know.

That's actually really helpful, I'd really recommend it. Getting my own license and coaching youth helped me appreciate the finer points of the game much more than playing ever did. You get a deeper understanding not just of formation, but also of player selection. Often parents didn't understand, for example why I would bench a "star" kid to start a game. Having a winning record helped convince them. :) Of course at that level, it's more about player development than just playing games... when you are hyper-competitive like myself, you have to really force yourself to play the weaker players to help them grow. I saw more than one player start off really weak but develop in positional understanding by the end of the season.

BTW, I used a 4-3-3 formation when coaching outdoors. It really helps you understand the limitations of Canadian players... most of them had never played that type of football. It's getting better, but physical play and long-ball are still pretty prevalent.

maninb
04-19-2012, 11:47 AM
Raul's contract up in June and he has said he wants to try MLS......He's scored 39 goals the past 2.5 years....

brad
04-19-2012, 12:26 PM
Raul's contract up in June and he has said he wants to try MLS......He's scored 39 goals the past 2.5 years....

We'd need a DP slot open I'd assume...

maninb
04-19-2012, 01:22 PM
Ummm...perhaps not....You could back-end the money until next year when JDG will be gone....

mcolvy
04-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Why another old European who'll be gone in 2 years max?

Island Man
04-26-2012, 10:10 AM
there is a trialist at training today.

Greatest Ripoff
04-26-2012, 10:49 AM
Any more information? Where was he playing?

zamperina
04-26-2012, 11:33 AM
there is a trialist at training today.

Possibly Nigerian Striker John Oweri is what was tweeted by K. Larson

Ossington Mental Youth
04-26-2012, 12:13 PM
yeah seems pretty meh imo