TFC in-season player movement thread

[Canary10]

Then you're pulling a central midfielder back deeper. I think it's worth a shot tbh. He's the only player we have with enough creativity to do something on the ball. I really hope the rumours arent' true and he's headed back.

[SirBobSaget]

I believe they joint own him. Wonder how that works?


If its anything like an Italian Co-Own, then at the end of season both teams make a 'secret' bid. The numbers are turned over and whichever team wrote down the highest amount pays the losing team that amount and gets full ownership.

[Oldtimer]

If its anything like an Italian Co-Own, then at the end of season both teams make a 'secret' bid. The numbers are turned over and whichever team wrote down the highest amount pays the losing team that amount and gets full ownership.

The South American version works differently. Two teams, or a team and a group of investors can co-own a player for years, even their career.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

The TFC website report on the reserve game has Alberto Giuliatto, of a couple pages back, turning out for the team, along with a host of guest players.

[Yohan]

Nesta says he's very interested in playing MLS, but no team made an offer

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/69/transfer-zone/2012/06/23/3196581/nesta-i-dont-have-a-shot-to-play-in-mls

I know TFC's hands are tied with cap and DP slots, but eh.

[DoubleUp]

The TFC website report on the reserve game has Alberto Giuliatto, of a couple pages back, turning out for the team, along with a host of guest players.

I would like to see us pick him up.

[Greatest Ripoff]

I would like to see us pick him up.


Why?

Here is what another poster said after the resver match:


Yeahhhh....don't let his pedigree fool you, Ashtone Morgan is a better LB from what I saw

[DoubleUp]

Why?

Here is what another poster said after the resver match:



Because #1 He can play all positions on the left, something morgan cant do.(not to directly compare them)
#2 He comes from the most tactical league in football, that also uses our current system the diamond(which he is probably familiar with)
#3 has experience in a top league and is still at an age to contribute.

and his Salary is peanuts, we cant really lose.

I think in our league in our new system would make a better LM(which others sources say is his main position) than LB.

I dont know what caused that poster to make that comment, but sometimes soccer people tend to see things in black and white(no vision).

[Klinsmann]

The TFC website report on the reserve game has Alberto Giuliatto, of a couple pages back, turning out for the team, along with a host of guest players.

I believe he was the only trialist there + 4 acedemy kids (that's the game write up on the tfc website says)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7276/7434336666_0777b4eec0_b.jpg

[Klinsmann]

Reserve line up from last night

Toronto -
Quillan Roberts;
Aaron Maund (**Roberto Galle 61'),
Dicoy Williams,
Logan Emory (**Nikola Paunic 45'),
***Alberto Giuliatto;
Efrain Burgos Jr. (**Ryan James 73'),
Oscar Cordon, Matt Stinson,
Luis Silva (**Sergio Camargo 56');
Reggie Lambe,
Keith Makubuya

* Guest player
** Academy Player
*** Trialist

[Red CB Toronto]

What in your opinion is really the difference between a trialist and guest player? Both are not under contract and getting a look with the team.

[Richard]

What in your opinion is really the difference between a trialist and guest player? Both are not under contract and getting a look with the team.

Rohan ricketts falls into "guest player" earlier this year to keep fit.

[West220Side]

Couple things quick things.

When is Torsten Frings able to depart from the club on his own terms? When does his contract expire?
What does everybody think about Nesta and Shevchenko rumoured to MLS?

[ManUtd4ever]

^^ Agreed about Frings. He has been a shadow of the player that he was last year, and he has been out of shape all season. A very disappointing return on a DP investment.

On the other hand, Koevermans has been worth every penny.

[denime]

^^ Agreed about Frings. He has been a shadow of the player that he was last year, and he has been out of shape all season. A very disappointing return on a DP investment.

On the other hand, Koevermans has been worth every penny.

Maybe he is shadow that he was last year,but last game we fooking fallen apart when he was substituted in 67 minute,5 min.later was 2-1 and we all know how that game finished.

Frings is a player and on field coach right now,who since Winter is gone has to work even harder to fill up the holes that Dunfield is creating with his running around like headless chicken,having a Dunfield to play with must be very frustrating and now that he has to play this hoofball too I would not be surpised if Frings is gone before season ends.

I'm sure Werder Bremen U12 academy has more skill and talent than our whole roster,so who would not like to work with them instead getting embarrassed at the end of his carrier with jumping monkey on the sideline and headless chicken as your team mate.

[West220Side]

^^ Agreed about Frings. He has been a shadow of the player that he was last year, and he has been out of shape all season. A very disappointing return on a DP investment.

On the other hand, Koevermans has been worth every penny.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Frings has been poor/that I dislike Frings by asking about his contract. I was just curious, though last game I made the observation that he's lost much of his game that he had as a young man, but what senior player doesn't? He's still got his passing ability, and most of his defensive skills minus his speed? hustle? pace? Don't know the word i'm looking for.

I was just thinking, we all knew when Frings came in that he was a short term patch, and that we would need to fill something in there when he's gone. Also if he's gone at the end of the season (contract wise) we'll have two designated player slots to fill wont we? 600,000 capspace, or two designated player spots.

I don't see Frings renewing, even if we were the best team in the league. His goal was very much to head back to Germany and coach wasn't it?

[hodgkiss]

it is absolutely silly to think that we once had nana and how well our team did when he was in the starting II. we are currently looking for a good cb and we could get him on the cheap. this guy is very familiar (working with both doneil, cann and morgan) and is not making a large salary. lets drop all of the "old" thoughts about him and his contract and what winter thought (winter isn't even here anymore). with this one simple move we could make our backline that much better.

this guy is a canadian, hard worker, fast and marks well. the only knock may be his distribution of the ball but henry isn't any better. if they can make the simple passes out eckersley or morgan, that would take care of it completely.

time to give your head a shake tfc! get this guy back in red!


NANA FOR CB!

[ginkster88]

You realize that he is out of contract, right?

He's so good that no team in the league wants him for free.

[ryan]

Would he want to play here again?

[ryan]

You realize that he is out of contract, right?

He's so good that no team in the league wants him for free.

I believe SJ owns his rights in MLS.

[Blizzard]

You realize that he is out of contract, right?

He's so good that no team in the league wants him for free.

Are his rights not still owned by the Earthquakes?

[TOBOR !]

I always thought he was useful and saw an upside to him.

I was a bit disappointed when Winter moved him... unless it was Mariner pulling the strings - you can't be too sure of anything these days, eh ? Eh ?

[__wowza]

time to give your head a shake tfc! get this guy back in red!
NANA FOR CB!

ask SJ fans what they think about him. his run of form at the beginning of last season wasn't exclusive to TFC, he was pretty shite all around. he looked like he had potential, but then something happened around the same time he started having "personal problems", im too lazy to track back to BS about the number of goals he gave up, all i know is that 2 of them were from short passes he literally threw at the attacking team that lead to two GWGs.

instead i'll focus on what their fans have said about him:


Don't we still have rights to Attakora? I guess even TFC doesn't want him...


Hopefully we could get allocation money for the rights to Attakora


And he's a complete waste of a roster spot and always has been.


I honestly thought Attakora was gone already, which would be a good thing. He's not an upgrade to our back line and I was hardly impressed with him when he played for us last year.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/attakora-expecting-to-be-traded-from-san-jose.1919183

personally, it sucks to see a potential first teamer and international-youngster go out with a whimper, but really.. he doesn't seem to be doing himself any favours onfield AND off it.

[hodgkiss]

sure - even if he is out of contract and san jose own his rights, then send a draft pick there way and get nana back.
what do we have to lose? i'm sure they could work out a contact for half of a season.

and if it worked out then resign him next year. could provide immediate impact. he is better than aceval and harden.
and what are they worth riding the bench???

the guy was making like 40k a year! thats horrible for a guy his calibre.
he should be around the 100k range

[ag futbol]

They may think of him as shit, but from what I've seen most recently in the U23 and what I've seen in the past... he's still an upgrade over every defender we have on our books. However, that doesn't really solve any of our problems but it would add some depth.

I'd still take him back and make him our #2 guy next to whoever the dominant defender is expected to be.

[hodgkiss]

They may think of him as shit, but from what I've seen most recently in the U23 and what I've seen in the past.


you are correct. he looked quite good. steady. composed on the ball. played for the team. he looked good against armenia with our men's squad too.
that's what i don't understand... how can the national coach see the ability and yet tfc does not?

i think every player is allowed a few games off. is it because he was so consistent for so long that having a couple of bad games really stood out?

ty harden has been given game after game and has been terrible at best. same with aceval. one great free kick doesn't make him a good defender.
he has been garbage and should never see the pitch again.

getting attakora here is a very small investment that could pay off big time!

[ryan]

sure - even if he is out of contract and san jose own his rights, then send a draft pick there way and get nana back.
what do we have to lose? i'm sure they could work out a contact for half of a season.


Oh I don't know, a draft pick?

[jrober38]

Oh I don't know, a draft pick?

Very few draft picks turn into useful players.

At this stage TFC should be exploring all available options to improve their defense. If the cost is a draft pick to bring in a 23 year old CB who can help us now then that seems like a reasonable price to pay.

[ryan]

I wouldn't say very few, that's an exaggeration.

[KGH]

Why would we bring in another back-up? We've got a roster full of them. What we need is a stud. A general.

It might almost be worth moving Frings permentently to the back 4 due to his decreased mobility.

[ag futbol]

I wouldn't say very few, that's an exaggeration.
No, I don't think that is so much. The conversion rate of draft picks to professions is incredibly low

If it was anything but our first rounder for next year, I'd give it to them in a bat of an eye.

[Abou Sky]

No, I don't think that is so much. The conversion rate of draft picks to professions is incredibly low

If it was anything but our first rounder for next year, I'd give it to them in a bat of an eye.

Have to agree, pretty much anyone after first 8-12 is nothing to write home about.

Yes there are exceptions, but not many.

[hodgkiss]

adam straith is also available now that he has been released by cotbus. it would be a great idea to get a look at him in red.

[jazzy]

have you ever watched him play up close?...its extremely sad that this its where it team stands. Grasping at straws,....basically castoffs.....is that now all we can look forward to.....talk about low expectations

[ryan]

No, I don't think that is so much. The conversion rate of draft picks to professions is incredibly low

If it was anything but our first rounder for next year, I'd give it to them in a bat of an eye.

When I look at the 2011 draft class, I see a decent amount of notable names. Salgado, Kitchen, Nagbe, Valentin, MacMath, Soares, Anibaba, Bruin, Sapong, Cardozo...do they all not play 1st team minutes? That's most of the 1st round and when you think the draft is now just 2 rounds...we're looking at at least 30% of that class making it so far no? What would the rate be for a league with 7 drafting rounds like the NFL or NHL? What percentage of those draft classes pan out?

When I see our Sturgis trade, followed by Bruin, Sapong in the 1st, or Farfan, Meredith in the 2nd round...there's pro players to be had out there. Just cause we're pretty much fucked the draft doesn't mean it's "incredibly low" like you're suggesting IMO.

[narduch]

adam straith is also available now that he has been released by cotbus. it would be a great idea to get a look at him in red.

He's not available anymore. He's signed with Saarbrucken.

[ag futbol]

When I look at the 2011 draft class, I see a decent amount of notable names. Salgado, Kitchen, Nagbe, Valentin, MacMath, Soares, Anibaba, Bruin, Sapong, Cardozo...do they all not play 1st team minutes? That's most of the 1st round and when you think the draft is now just 2 rounds...we're looking at at least 30% of that class making it so far no? What would the rate be for a league with 7 drafting rounds like the NFL or NHL? What percentage of those draft classes pan out?

But look at where those guys were drafted that you're referencing, it's pretty much all top ten or so. Some guys in the first around are already playing in the USL (Hertzog) or have been traded + didn't seem too valuable to their club (Valentin). NFL has a virtual monopoly on talent and NHL is miles ahead of the competition. MLS has to negotiate with kids not to play in Scandinavian so they can be allocated to one of twenty teams.

I'll take a 23 year old CB with 50+ games of pro experience under his belt over anything we'd get below 10th pick or so on average, because it's too much of a crap shoot.

[DoubleUp]

Why would we bring in another back-up? We've got a roster full of them. What we need is a stud. A general.

It might almost be worth moving Frings permentently to the back 4 due to his decreased mobility.


Fabiano Santacroce!
contract expirers in 3 days

Atleast give his management a call>

patch me into the scouting department!
:idea:

[maninb]

Why would we bring in another back-up? We've got a roster full of them. What we need is a stud. A general.

It might almost be worth moving Frings permentently to the back 4 due to his decreased mobility.

Frings is the ONLY MF who can distribute the ball...why waste him back at CB???? I agree with the poster that Frings is looking worse only because he has that moron Dunfield playing beside him, and has to continually cover for him...

[jrober38]

Why would we bring in another back-up? We've got a roster full of them. What we need is a stud. A general.

It might almost be worth moving Frings permentently to the back 4 due to his decreased mobility.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a guy at the back who has decreased mobility.

Defending is about positioning, but it's also about reacting to the play around you and having the foot speed to run with forwards and the agility to get into passing lanes.

If he can't run or move, I wouldn't put him at the back.

[Ajax TFC]

Frings is the ONLY MF who can distribute the ball...why waste him back at CB???? I agree with the poster that Frings is looking worse only because he has that moron Dunfield playing beside him, and has to continually cover for him...
You're forgetting Avila. Personally I think a midfield three of Avila Burgos and JDG would be awesome, with a back four of Eckersley, Frings, Henry, Morgan.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a guy at the back who has decreased mobility.

Defending is about positioning, but it's also about reacting to the play around you and having the foot speed to run with forwards and the agility to get into passing lanes.

If he can't run or move, I wouldn't put him at the back.
Young CBs develop best when paired up with an experienced guy. Frings might not be fast, but he can position himself well, and he can direct people. A fast guy like Henry would more than compensate for Frings' lack of speed. You can't tell me that Frings would be bad because he's slow when we usually have Cann in there

[jrober38]

Young CBs develop best when paired up with an experienced guy. Frings might not be fast, but he can position himself well, and he can direct people. A fast guy like Henry would more than compensate for Frings' lack of speed. You can't tell me that Frings would be bad because he's slow when we usually have Cann in there

Right now Frings gets to sit right in front of the defense as a stopper in our midfield diamond. He's as close as possible to the defense without actually being relied on to run with any attackers who are trying to run in behind him.

Personally I don't really see the need to put him at the back, because he's not a long term solution at the position. We're in last place, and have no hope for this season. Let Frings lead them from his holding midfield spot, but let the kids take their lumps and see what becomes of it. The best case scenario is that with four young defenders on the field, one steps up into a leadership role and becomes our defensive leader for the next 5-10 years.

Putting Frings at the back does nothing but put a band aide on a gaping wound. It might help a bit temporarily, but it does nothing to address the real problem which is our need for a young, quality CB to build a defense around.

[TFC_905]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3400-Nesta-expected-to-sign-with-Toronto-FC

Nesta to TFC...Duane better not be fuckin with me...

[Ageroo]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3400-Nesta-expected-to-sign-with-Toronto-FC

Nesta to TFC...Duane better not be fuckin with me...

Italy match coming up.......perfect timing in my opinion. Guest of TFC at the Impact match...the Italians in this city may lose their shit. Older, but needed to command the back line. Question is now who do you pair him with?

[PopePouri]

Italy match coming up.......perfect timing in my opinion. Guest of TFC at the Impact match...the Italians in this city may lose their shit. Older, but needed to command the back line. Question is now who do you pair him with?

Henry.

[ag futbol]

I think this sends us down the wrong road. First of all 3 DP salaries is an incredible burden on roster flexibility. I was looking forward to next year with JDG off the books so we could spread some of that cash around to regular players. Second, while I'm sure he would be amazing on the field in the short term, long run he's not going to be here and we go searching again for someone new.

I'd like to see us commit to a core of players who can come back for the next five years or maybe longer if everything goes right. These DP's over the age of 35 ... MLS is becoming the NASL 2.0

[Kilgore Trout]

These DP's over the age of 35 ... MLS is becoming the NASL 2.0

This is becoming a concern of mine as well. We all saw how the NASL turned out. But I think that there's still a balance between 'name' signings at an older age and the rest of the team and sustainable fan interest across the board in MLS. I just wonder if they're going down the wrong road now.

[Ajax TFC]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3400-Nesta-expected-to-sign-with-Toronto-FC

Nesta to TFC...Duane better not be fuckin with me...
old as fuck, but IMO we desperately need a really good CB to pair up with Henry and mentor him. Maybe the players put on that performance to impress him

[maxpower]

This is becoming a concern of mine as well. We all saw how the NASL turned out.

The NASL only turned out that way because there were teams like the Cosmos who went completely bankrupt because they over spent on these types of players. The MLS is trying to be the opposite of that. That is why we have a cap.

[Ajax TFC]

I think this sends us down the wrong road. First of all 3 DP salaries is an incredible burden on roster flexibility. I was looking forward to next year with JDG off the books so we could spread some of that cash around to regular players.
I wonder if we could exploit a loophole and pay Frings the rest of his DP contract in the offseason and then sign him to a regular lower salary contract for next year. It would be a win win win situation. TFC gets him for a much reduced cap hit, but doesn't spend a penny more than they would have if they didn't but him out, they're just paying him in advance. Frings gets all his money, but gets to play on a better team because there's more cap room. MLS doesn't have to pay him 350k of his salary.
You could do the same thing with Koevermans as well


Second, while I'm sure he would be amazing on the field in the short term, long run he's not going to be here and we go searching again for someone new.

I'd like to see us commit to a core of players who can come back for the next five years or maybe longer if everything goes right. These DP's over the age of 35 ... MLS is becoming the NASL 2.0
But he could also help a lot with Henry's development, which would help us for a lot longer than just the year that he's here

[mowe]

I think this sends us down the wrong road. First of all 3 DP salaries is an incredible burden on roster flexibility. I was looking forward to next year with JDG off the books so we could spread some of that cash around to regular players. Second, while I'm sure he would be amazing on the field in the short term, long run he's not going to be here and we go searching again for someone new.

I'd like to see us commit to a core of players who can come back for the next five years or maybe longer if everything goes right. These DP's over the age of 35 ... MLS is becoming the NASL 2.0

Can't agree more. Only thing I'll add is that Frings and Koevermans come off the books at the end of next year. So this 3 DP thing is only going to be for another year. And who knows, maybe Frings retires after this year if he decides he doesn't want another year of MLS travel.

[ag futbol]

But he could also help a lot with Henry's development, which would help us for a lot longer than just the year that he's here
I don't disagree that he would probably help, but there's more than one way to get that job done in a more cost effective manner.

[backbeat]

I don't disagree that he would probably help, but there's more than one way to get that job done in a more cost effective manner.


this gets the job done - and it gets the attention of the community, which would be a huge boost for FO

[Red CB Toronto]

Sucks to see Junior Burgos released, thought he had a bright future here.

[Auzzy]

^ Agreed, I don't understand the decision to waive Burgos at all!

http://t.co/BzhmTot6

EDIT Ugh, the kid was due to make $34k this year, waited forever to get a chance here (Visa/residency issues). I don't get it.

[flamehawk]

^ Agreed, I don't understand the decision to waive Burgos at all!

http://t.co/BzhmTot6

EDIT Ugh, the kid was due to make $34k this year, waited forever to get a chance here (Visa/residency issues). I don't get it.

Yea, thought he showed a lot of potential.

... kinda mean of TFC to be taking a photo of him after telling him the decision and posting it online though :p

[MartinUtd]

Yea, thought he showed a lot of potential.

... kinda mean of TFC to be taking a photo of him after telling him the decision and posting it online though :p

lol.. I was thinking the same thing. Have you ever seen a sadder face on a roster pic?

[KGH]

^ Agreed, I don't understand the decision to waive Burgos at all!

http://t.co/BzhmTot6

EDIT Ugh, the kid was due to make $34k this year, waited forever to get a chance here (Visa/residency issues). I don't get it.

We had 28 on the roster. If we fill spots 29 & 30 we lose $35k / spot of allocation $. I imagine we needed to open a roster spot without jepordizing that allocation money.

[Ajax TFC]

ok, there has to be players on the roster with less potential than Burgos. He was good whenever he appeared for TFC or the reserves, which is a lot more than I can say for a lot of the roster. Plus with Mariner starting three DMs per game, he was our ONLY backup DM

[SirBobSaget]

I feel the Burgos release was not done for the benefit of TFC but so that Burgos can get playing time elsewhere (maybe a central american club?). His potential was being wasted.

He was showing up consistently on the Rserve games scorers list ... not sure why was not at least given 1st team sub mins

[T-boy]

^ Agreed, I don't understand the decision to waive Burgos at all!

http://t.co/BzhmTot6

EDIT Ugh, the kid was due to make $34k this year, waited forever to get a chance here (Visa/residency issues). I don't get it.

if Burgos wasn't going to play in the first team this season, he's just taking up ap space for no reason, even if it was a small amount of money. I'm sure the academy have better prospects playing for them that are taking up no space at all and might be better prospects, and younger.

I'm assuming he was also taking up an international spot, that really a young player that won't be playing much in the first team shouldn't be taking up?

[iy12l]

WTF in preseason Burgos looked way better than Duncefield and scored a couple of nice goals in reserve games, which Duncefield will never be able to do. Why didnt Mariner release Harden or Duncefield instead?

[Jack]

WTF in preseason Burgos looked way better than Duncefield and scored a couple of nice goals in reserve games, which Duncefield will never be able to do. Why didnt Mariner release Harden or Duncefield instead?
They play completely different roles and Dunfield is Canadian.

[ag futbol]

this gets the job done - and it gets the attention of the community, which would be a huge boost for FO
I don't know... not trying to be confrontational here but...

For the marketing: I really wonder sometimes if this is the type of attention a team wants. Your basically buying someone elses brand, and living off the value of someone else. Would the people coming to see Nesta be one-offs or repeat customers? Because if it's the former, we're just creating a situation where the team keeps having to buy players to bring in fans, not the best approach IMO. If experience is any guide, there are very few guys out there who can consistently sell tickets the way Blanco did, and Beckham and Henry do. I know he's one of the greatest central defenders to play in the last 20 years and a really big deal to the Italian community, but will that translate into repeat ticket sales to watch a central defender? Not really a big deal to me, but then again I've never supported Milan so...

As for the mentoring: don't underestimate the value of advise provided by seasoned professionals who are less than world-class talented. You have to be very smart and wily to stick around any league for a long time and those types of guys are usually willing, able, and good at providing advise (and they usually end up as coaches too). World class talents have a much more spotty record in comparison... They often have a hard time relating to those who don't get things easy and lack the same attention to detail. All I'm saying is this mentoring thing often gets brought up like it's some kind of slam dunk for every big name signing that comes through the door, I wouldn't start with that assumption or use it as justification to drop big $.

Otherwise, if I'm wrong, Saudi Arabai is going to have one hell of a national team pretty soon.

[Ajax TFC]

They play completely different roles and Dunfield is Canadian.
Burgos played DM during preseason and in the Columbus game when he came in for JDG. We're also at a shortage of reserve DMs now, whereas half our roster is made of reserve CBs

[Auzzy]

^ Exactly. Also, Burgos holds dual citizenship from El Salvador and the United States., so he doesn't take up an international spot, as others have written incorrectly above.

[Wooster_TFC]

They play completely different roles and Dunfield is Canadian.

Burgos had a green card, so being Canadian has nothing to do with it, unless they are still on the "Canadians are better" from a marketing perspective.

[T-boy]

Burgos had a green card, so being Canadian has nothing to do with it, unless they are still on the "Canadians are better" from a marketing perspective.

In a case like this, we (the fans) don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes. There could be MANY reason's why Burgos has be waived, not just that "he isn't good enough" or anything like that. It could have been personal reasons from the player, or various other things. We can't really judge the waive unless we know all the information.

[Blizzard]

In a case like this, we (the fans) don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes. There could be MANY reason's why Burgos has be waived, not just that "he isn't good enough" or anything like that. It could have been personal reasons from the player, or various other things. We can't really judge the waive unless we know all the information.

Very true. Those are reasonable points. He might have become frustrated by his time with the reserves and asked for a release to try and find a new gig where he can actually get some minutes. NASL perhaps?

[Jack]

Burgos played DM during preseason and in the Columbus game when he came in for JDG. We're also at a shortage of reserve DMs now, whereas half our roster is made of reserve CBs


Burgos had a green card, so being Canadian has nothing to do with it, unless they are still on the "Canadians are better" from a marketing perspective.


Fair enough. My impression of him was that he was more of an offensive player than Dunfield, but we didn't really get to see enough of him for me to fully decide.

[moralis]

It's not Alessandro Nesta, but another Italian centre back in Davide Zoboli is set to land in Toronto next week to sign according to Italian press: Hot off the presses

https://twitter.com/TransferNewsCen/status/218829823865393152

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.calcionews24.com/toronto-per-zoboli-manca-solo-la-firma-247204.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DToronto,%2Bper%2BZoboli%2Bmanca%2Bsol o%2Bla%2Bfirma%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DVB6%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=mDXuT7_xCPD16AHu4K2cCg&ved=0CFgQ7gEwAA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davide_Zoboli

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/zoboli/profil/spieler_21702.html

http://www.gazzetta.it/speciali/2008/calcio/Players/player_p183319.shtml

[thisisinternetclash]

I don't normally post and it seems like this community is quite aggressive with regard to allocating things to the appropriate pre-made threads, but this was one of our very best players last year so it stands to reason that he deserves his own thread in this case, I'd imagine.

Have a look at Plata's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/joaoplata10


Les confirmo que hemos llegado a un acuerdo con la MLS por Joao Plata el jugador llegará la próxima semana

He's retweeted a post from what looks to be the official Liga Deportiva Universitaria de Quito (Ecuadorian champions) account (https://twitter.com/EstebanPazR) that appears to confirm that they've reached an agreement and he will be off next week.

Surprised not to see any discussion of this yet.

[moralis]

Now the bad news: It's official according to LDU Quito that Joao Plata will return to Ecuador on a six month loan deal starting next week (Wednesday):

Confirmed by the LDU Quito President and Plata himself:

https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/Joao%20Plata

https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/Joao%20Plata

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLes%2Bconfirmo%2Bque%2Bhemos%2Bllegad o%2Ba%2Bun%2Bacuerdo%2Bcon%2Bla%2BMLS%2Bpor%2BJoao %2BPlata%2Bel%2Bjugador%2Bllegar%25C3%25A1%2Bla%2B pr%25C3%25B3xima%2Bsemana%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfir efox-a%26hs%3Djkl%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvnso&rurl=translate.google.ca&sl=es&u=http://twitter.com/estebanpazr&usg=ALkJrhgzNS7Gq6XQHAB88b_q6pV5fe8G0Q

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.eluniverso.com/2012/06/29/1/1372/claudio-bieler-amplio-contrato-liga-quito-hasta-10-julio-ficho-joao-plata.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLiga%2Bde%2BQuito%2Bampli%25C3%25B3%2 Bcontrato%2Bcon%2BBieler%2Bhasta%2Bel%2B10%2Bde%2B julio%2By%2Bfich%25C3%25B3%2Ba%2BJoao%2BPlata%26hl %3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DJDR%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvnso&sa=X&ei=BjvuT5O9E8mv6AHn3cyMAw&ved=0CFQQ7gEwAA

[narduch]

Thanks for posting this. I agree that this news does deserve its own thread.

You shouldn't be surprised that there is no discussion on this yet, the story doesn't seem to have been picked up anywhere else.

[ManUtd4ever]

There was speculation last week that his former club wanted to acquire him on loan. We'll see what happens.

[moralis]

I hope Plata can play some part in tomorrow's game for the fans, I know it's only a six month loan. Would be nice.

[narduch]

I hope Plata can play some part in tomorrow's game for the fans, I know it's only a six month loan. Would be nice.

I doubt he'll play with a loan impending. Wouldn't want to risk injury.

Seems like a fairly bad waste of resources by TFC management to pay a transfer free for Plata and then loan him back to his same club.

I have a feeling that this will end with Plata leaving TFC.

[moralis]

Joao Plata now trending in Ecuador

[flatpicker]

He certainly was fun to watch at times. Best of luck to him.

[Furtado91]

This sucks. I liked him :(. Best of luck to the guy, but still it stings abit.

[[NBF]]

There was speculation last week that his former club wanted to acquire him on loan. We'll see what happens.

Wanted to or thought it would be good business to loan him for a fraction of his wage?

[[NBF]]

It's not Alessandro Nesta, but another Italian centre back in Davide Zoboli is set to land in Toronto next week to sign according to Italian press: Hot off the presses

https://twitter.com/TransferNewsCen/status/218829823865393152

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.calcionews24.com/toronto-per-zoboli-manca-solo-la-firma-247204.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DToronto,%2Bper%2BZoboli%2Bmanca%2Bsol o%2Bla%2Bfirma%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DVB6%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=mDXuT7_xCPD16AHu4K2cCg&ved=0CFgQ7gEwAA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davide_Zoboli

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/zoboli/profil/spieler_21702.html

http://www.gazzetta.it/speciali/2008/calcio/Players/player_p183319.shtml

This must be a Aron Winter connection, I just don't see Paul Mariner having contacts with Torino. Serie B is not bad and if you're playing for a yo-yo club like Brescia or Torino you're not a bad player. I like this better than Nesta to TFC.

[Oldtimer]

Thanks for posting this. I agree that this news does deserve its own thread.



We have separate threads for DP-level signings. I like Plata, but a lot of players on his level get traded every year, and we like having one thread to keep things neat. U-Sector, Voyageurs, and Big Soccer all have similar policies.

[[NBF]]

Plata- Gone.

Burgos Jr.- Gone

Aceval- Next?

Avila- Trade bait?

Silva- Maybe we can get a 3rd round pick?

[bman27]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but don't we co- own his rights with the other team anyways, This might not be the end for him in toronto? I'd much rather see him get minutes right now then waste away on the bench at his age

[Auzzy]

Plata gone? Fuck shit...

HOWEVER, seeing how we supposedly paid a $500k transfer fee to sign Plata before this year, perhaps this would be a deal with his Ecuadorian club that gives us some cap space or allo cash back or whatever. (If TFC paid a transfer fee, then I don't think the Ecuadorian club would "co-own" his rights -- although who knows what deal they made with TFC in the off-season, it did take a long time to negotiate.) IF this gives us room to sign some real stud CB now, then I could live with it. Especially if we're planning to launch the ball from defence to the strikers all day, then Plata is probably not the right guy to receive those balls.

On the other hand, this gives us even less cover up front. I thought Plata would be a decent backup as a 2nd striker, when DK or RJ need a break. I would like to have seen a fresh Plata subbed in to run at a tired defence in our system (paired with a tall guy). Unless there are some more drastic changes, I'm very concerned about the day that Danny or Ryan get injured or need a break in a congested season.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Too bad about Plata. With the lack of depth in the striker role (playing the only 2 strikers on the roster for 90 minutes every match) I thought he might have been an interesting late game sub as a striker. Using his speed to pressure the opposition defence.

[Greatest Ripoff]

On the other hand, this gives us even less cover up front. I thought Plata would be a decent backup as a 2nd striker, when DK or RJ need a break. I would like to have seen a fresh Plata subbed in to run at a tired defence in our system (paired with a tall guy). Unless there are some more drastic changes, I'm very concerned about the day that Danny or Ryan get injured or need a break in a congested season.

shit I missed this. Yeah, pretty much how I feel.

Would be nice if Vukovic was around right now.

[narduch]

HOWEVER, seeing how we supposedly paid a $500k transfer fee to sign Plata before this year, perhaps this would be a deal with his Ecuadorian club that gives us some cap space or allo cash back or whatever. (If TFC paid a transfer fee, then I don't think the Ecuadorian club would "co-own" his rights -- although who knows what deal they made with TFC in the off-season, it did take a long time to negotiate.) IF this gives us room to sign some real stud CB now, then I could live with it. Especially if we're planning to launch the ball from defence to the strikers all day, then Plata is probably not the right guy to receive those balls.

I'm more worried that TFC may have just pissed a $500,000 transfer fee down the drain.

Its not usually a good sign when a player is loaned back to the team he was transferred from. And LDU Quito will probably laugh at TFC if they ask for the transfer fee back.

Plus the way I recall MLS rules, is that when you loan out a player, you do not get cap relief.

So I'm not really sure how this move helps TFC's cap situation. I hope I'm wrong though.

[Auzzy]

^Arrgh doesn't sound good. But then why loan him back? There's gotta be something in it for TFC, otherwise I just can't see them agreeing to this?!?! Please?

[narduch]

^Arrgh doesn't sound good. But then why loan him back? There's gotta be something in it for TFC, otherwise I just can't see them agreeing to this?!?! Please?

Well, I'm thinking Mariner doesn't rate him and probably wouldn't play him much. Plus maybe this clears up an international slot (not sure with MLS' weird rules).

At least if he is loaned out there is a chance Quito plays him and his value increases or some other team becomes interested.

As it stands now, if LDU Quito really rated Plata, why wouldn't they just keep him and not sell him to Toronto?

What changed in 6 months that made them want him now? My guess is that they get to have him for 6 months for nearly free.

[denime]

I'm more worried that TFC may have just pissed a $500,000 transfer fee down the drain.

Its not usually a good sign when a player is loaned back to the team he was transferred from. And LDU Quito will probably laugh at TFC if they ask for the transfer fee back.

Plus the way I recall MLS rules, is that when you loan out a player, you do not get cap relief.

So I'm not really sure how this move helps TFC's cap situation. I hope I'm wrong though.

This is just another sign how dysfunctional TFC FO is,first pay 500K and than loan him back for peanuts.

and I think club gets allocation money but not cap relief.

[Blizzard]

This is just another sign how dysfunctional TFC FO is,first pay 500K and than loan him back for peanuts.

and I think club gets allocation money but not cap relief.

It serves the same purpose though.

[Greatest Ripoff]

I just watched the preview show on goltv and Plata was practicing with the team on Friday. If he was on his way out immediately I doubt he would been there. Or the loan could have been worked out after practice?

[reggie]

im so sick of this FO..with all there lies and keeping everything hush hush all the time,wtf.
we hv to get all our info from twitter and and other news services.

[narduch]

I just watched the preview show on goltv and Plata was practicing with the team on Friday. If he was on his way out immediately I doubt he would been there. Or the loan could have been worked out after practice?

The practices are usually earlier in the day. The tweet came at night.

So its possible that he practiced first and the move was completed later.

I'm kind of surprised this story hasn't really blown up yet. Plata is a bit of a fan favourite. This should be bigger news.

[ag futbol]

I'm sad that a few of these guys have to move on, but in the end, changes have to be made. We have a lot of players on our roster who are ok, but aren't real consistent difference makers they need to be in order to have our team win on a regular basis.

Team needs some flexibility to bring in new players.

[ManUtd4ever]

Let's not jump to conclusions regarding Plata. If he is going on loan, it's not necessarily a permanent move, and it must be in anticipation of acquiring reinforcements on the backline by way of freeing up an international slot and gaining cap space or allocation.

Contrary to the belief of some posters, I'm confident that Paul Mariner might actually have a clue about what he's doing to try and improve the roster.

[Ajax TFC]

Well, I'm thinking Mariner doesn't rate him and probably wouldn't play him much. Plus maybe this clears up an international slot (not sure with MLS' weird rules).

At least if he is loaned out there is a chance Quito plays him and his value increases or some other team becomes interested.

As it stands now, if LDU Quito really rated Plata, why wouldn't they just keep him and not sell him to Toronto?

What changed in 6 months that made them want him now? My guess is that they get to have him for 6 months for nearly free.
They probably figured that his value would increase more in MLS than when playing for them. They got 500k for him and retained 50% of his rights. They want him back because his transfer value (which they get 50% of) is dropping by not playing.

I'm 90% sure that TFC gets nothing out of this other than the international spot and roster spot back. Since he made next to nothing, cap hit isn't affected since he wouldn't have been in the top 20.

If they need cap relief they should wave Aceval before his full salary counts against the cap

[Oldtimer]

If Plata gets sold, TFC will collect half of the transfer fee. That could equal a lot of cash... or next to nothing depending what he goes for. Part of that cash can go to cap relief.

[Ajax TFC]

If Plata gets sold, TFC will collect half of the transfer fee. That could equal a lot of cash... or next to nothing depending what he goes for. Part of that cash can go to cap relief.
but to get what we paid back he would have to sell for at least $1m. For him to go for that much he has get a lot better and prove that he can perform consistently.

I hope that LdQ can get the most out of him and do a lot for his skill development. Then hopefully he can add some weight when he comes back and add a physical element to his game. That being said, I think it's more likely that his development stalls, or TFC gives in too early and we never get back what we invested

[[NBF]]

but to get what we paid back he would have to sell for at least $1m. For him to go for that much he has get a lot better and prove that he can perform consistently.

I hope that LdQ can get the most out of him and do a lot for his skill development. Then hopefully he can add some weight when he comes back and add a physical element to his game. That being said, I think it's more likely that his development stalls, or TFC gives in too early and we never get back what we invested

We're still talking about Joao Plata? For a second I thought you were mistaking him for Maximiliano Moralez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximiliano_Moralez).

[T-boy]

Let's not jump to conclusions regarding Plata. If he is going on loan, it's not necessarily a permanent move, and it must be in anticipation of acquiring reinforcements on the backline by way of freeing up an international slot and gaining cap space or allocation.

Contrary to the belief of some posters, I'm confident that Paul Mariner might actually have a clue about what he's doing to try and improve the roster.

Plata is STILL a player for the future, not necessarily right now. Plata wasn't playing very well earlier in the season and maybe the "glamour" of his transfer has been weighing on him? It's possibly sensible to loan him to get some first team playing time, and free up cap space for THIS season (if its true that part of his purchase money is tieing up cap space?). Then we can get a more experienced CB with that money for this season at least?

We just have to wait on a press relsease/info from Mariner on this one.

[khso11]

PLATA tweeted he will be leaving Toronto apperently

https://twitter.com/JoaoPlata10/status/219247424428978178

[Huyton]

I was only listening with half an ear (I'm at work) to the Fan590, but Jason DeVos said that the loan is for 6 months; that Plata had already cleared out his locker, and that he was hugging his teammates as if he'd never see them again.

Here's the "half an ear" part: Mariner was asked about how happy Plata was considering how little he's played. To which Mariner replied "Try to imagine how happy I am when a 19 year old tries to tell me my job".

I'm kinda sorry to see him go. I'll miss his workrate and the infectious smile that lit up the stadium when he scored. What I won't miss is him running at defenders and loosing possession. It would have been nice to see him come on with 20 minutes to go and run the other teams back-line completely ragged. On a night like tonight, I'd think that this is something the opposing defence would not want to see.



Ah, well...an international spot is freed up.

[Nestease]

Molinaro has a great article on Joao Plata and it's Dero/Earl debacle all over again. Cochrane is claiming there's no agreement with anyone. Plata's already cleared his locker and said his goodbye's though. There's never a dull moment with this front office.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/06/30/toronto_fc_joao_plata_twitter_loan_ecuador/



...But Earl Cochrane, TFC's director of team and player operations, told reporters at halftime of Saturday evening's 1-1 draw with New York that no deal was finalized. Cochrane confirmed the club was entertaining loan offers for the Ecuadorian from several clubs. "Joao Plata today is a Toronto FC player," Cochrane stated emphatically. He later added: "He's under contract with us. We have no agreement with anyone."...

[tfc2008]

I read sometimes the name of Clarence Seedorf but he did sign with a club in Brasil, no mls for him

[ensco]

From Molinaro's story: "(Is he going) on holiday, a vacation? Maybe he wants to be the manager so he can tell me what’s going on," Mariner stated. "I love it when a (teenage) kids come in here and tell the press what's going on. Isn't that a wonderful situation for me to be in?"

.....

Here are some facts for you, Paul: Plata is a 19 year old living 5,000 miles from home making 50K. South American player/agent/contract relations are complex. Stuff leaks in modern football.

If Mariner can't understand or deal with any, let alone all, of that, that's on him, not Plata.

Mariner needs to get over himself. This is a worrying sign.

[T-boy]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.

[Richard]

Haha, Jokes on TFC if the reported fee is correct. I think PM needs to tone it down, you dont stick a player like Plata on the bench as he needs to develop. Atleast he will start for his previous club. It seems like Plata may be a bust and the front office is in damage control because of that ridiculos fee.

[ag futbol]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.
Let's get real here for a second. Most likely manager doesn't rate the player, that's probably all there is to it.

As for the optics and everything else that's happened.... MLS / TFC and their retardedly slow process of annoucning transfers once again makes themselves look rediculous. I think everybody else in the world has acknowledged this move is happening except TFC. Are Cochrane and Mariner actually dumb enough to believe that they are going to keep a lid on this thing after the guy cleans out his fucking locker? Maybe league policy prevents them from saying anything before it's annouced, but honestly they could do themselves a few favors by being less dishonest.

And once again Cochrane looks like he only duty he should be assigned to is fetching double-doubles from tim hortons.

[jloome]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.

Tboy, I'm quite enthusiastic about Mariner so far and I see from your posts that you are too. But we don't know enough about this situation to just jump on one side like that. It's not objective.

[jloome]

Let's get real here for a second. Most likely manager doesn't rate the player, that's probably all there is to it.

As for the optics and everything else that's happened.... MLS / TFC and their retardedly slow process of annoucning transfers once again makes themselves look rediculous. I think everybody else in the world has acknowledged this move is happening except TFC. Are Cochrane and Mariner actually dumb enough to believe that they are going to keep a lid on this thing after the guy cleans out his fucking locker? Maybe league policy prevents them from saying anything before it's annouced, but honestly they could do themselves a few favors by being less dishonest.

And once again Cochrane looks like he only duty he should be assigned to is fetching double-doubles from tim hortons.

Their inability to handle press properly is, as usual, without peer.

[tfc2008]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.


This is so the true

[Ajax TFC]

Molinaro has a great article on Joao Plata and it's Dero/Earl debacle all over again. Cochrane is claiming there's no agreement with anyone. Plata's already cleared his locker and said his goodbye's though. There's never a dull moment with this front office.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/06/30/toronto_fc_joao_plata_twitter_loan_ecuador/
the same Earl Cockrane who didn't know why DeRo was at Celtic?

[Greatest Ripoff]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.

What are you talking about? They had already removed Plata's name plate from his locker. The media has reported that TFC is sending back to Ecuador and he said goodbye on twitter. Why should he be disciplined for that?

[Greatest Ripoff]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.

From the official ldu quito twitter

29 Jun (https://twitter.com/clubldu/status/218836431160868864)https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2144893653/logoldu_normal.jpgClubldu.com ‏@clubldu (https://twitter.com/#!/clubldu)
Se confirma la contratación de Joao Plata para la segunda etapa. El joven jugador que regresa al equipo arribará la próxima semana.

"It confirms the hiring of Joao Plata to the second stage. The young player who returns to the team will arrive next week."

And Plata's Tweet:

“It has been a pleasure playin 4 Toronto FC. I want 2 give much thanks n luv 2 the fans 4 all the support during my time here. Love Plata!!”

So what is the wrong doing on here by Plata?

[Stryker]

the same Earl Cockrane who didn't know why DeRo was at Celtic?
Cockrane is an idiot and another MLSE hangeron who shouldn't even have a job but for kissing Anselmi's ass.

[Blizzard]

From Molinaro's story: "(Is he going) on holiday, a vacation? Maybe he wants to be the manager so he can tell me what’s going on," Mariner stated. "I love it when a (teenage) kids come in here and tell the press what's going on. Isn't that a wonderful situation for me to be in?"

.....

Here are some facts for you, Paul: Plata is a 19 year old living 5,000 miles from home making 50K. South American player/agent/contract relations are complex. Stuff leaks in modern football.


He's making 50k salary from the MLS cap but don't forget, players gets cuts of transfer fees. And let's not also forget that the allocation funds that were going to be used to disguise Eckersley's cap hit were instead used to disguise Plata's cap hit after the $500k figure became public knowledge (damage control by the club).

The 50k figure is only the cap hit. He's doing much better than that.

[Blizzard]

the same Earl Cockrane who didn't know why DeRo was at Celtic?

Just a coincidence I'm sure. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[ensco]

He's making 50k salary from the MLS cap but don't forget, players gets cuts of transfer fees. And let's not also forget that the allocation funds that were going to be used to disguise Eckersley's cap hit were instead used to disguise Plata's cap hit after the $500k figure became public knowledge (damage control by the club).

The 50k figure is only the cap hit. He's doing much better than that.

Fine, he got 25K or 50K on the transfer, or whatever. His exact comp wasn't central to my point.

My point is that he's not making the kind of money that changes your life, and TFC have got to stop acting it's otherwise. Plata obviously knew he was gone, his act was not one of rank insubordination.

[Shakes McQueen]

Plata's actions do not at all look like disgruntled insubordination. Clearly he was led to believe he was gone from the team, so he said his goodbyes and tweeted some final love to the fans. If he isn't officially gone yet, then that's an abject failure of the team to communicate clearly with him, what was going on.

Mariner's pithy comments don't help, either. It's just another small stick on the raging bonfire that was once this team's professional reputation. Though I suspect the actual screw up is more Cochrane's fault, than Mariner.

So once again the team fails to control information coming out of it's own front office/locker room, and look like imbeciles as a result.

- Scott

[Blizzard]

Plata's actions do not at all look like disgruntled insubordination. Clearly he was led to believe he was gone from the team, so he said his goodbyes and tweeted some final love to the fans. If he isn't officially gone yet, then that's an abject failure of the team to communicate clearly with him, what was going on.

Mariner's pithy comments don't help, either. It's just another small stick on the raging bonfire that was once this team's professional reputation. Though I suspect the actual screw up is more Cochrane's fault, than Mariner.

So once again the team fails to control information coming out of it's own front office/locker room, and look like imbeciles as a result.

- Scott

I, and some of my friends, have been speculating that it's possible that Plata and his agent engineered his departure in order to not further endanger his future career prospects. To be stuck in what could be perceived as the cess pool of Major League Soccer (ok, that's harsh), could potential stifle is future opportunities before they even present themselves.

If this is the scenario, that it might make sense that Cochrane and Mariner would not as yet have approved whatever Plata and his agent have put together.

That being said, neither Plata's dissemination of information via twitter nor Mariner's oozed sarcasm at yesterday's press conference, are very helpful.

[tiberius]

It actually sounds like Plata is throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, and its nothing to do with Mariner! If Plata isn't getting playing time...he's a kid and needs to learn to have some patience! If I was his manager I would be saying the same things as Mariner right now. Plata needs to check his ego at the door. TFC are currently 4 games unbeaten without him playing and he needs to train and practice and impress his way back into the first team, its not going to happen overnight. Mariner should discipline Plata for his public statements.
Sounds like Mariner has problems to me - he can't get his ego around managing 19 year olds - instead he sounds off to the press - that is impressive and mature - no doubt! T-boy you should be diciplined for your public statements!

[jloome]

Just a coincidence I'm sure. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

I suspect they're trying to protect the Nesta deal from a last-second UAE or Saudi bid, something like that. He's a commodity player still, even at his age, so they're going to obfuscate this until it's done.

[Stouffville_RPB]

I, and some of my friends, have been speculating that it's possible that Plata and his agent engineered his departure in order to not further endanger his future career prospects.


Wouldnt be surprised if it is true that Plata wanted the move. After the manager change a player like Plata is stuck when going to the 4-4-2, not a natural fit in any position. Coming off the season he had and at his age Plata may feel that he still has value (which would diminish should he spend the majority if the rest of the season on the bench).

[Huyton]

Plata's playing on the worst team in MLS, with a paper thin talent pool, and he's worried about not getting playing time?

He should be doing what every good professional does...working bloody hard so that when the inevitable injury or loss of form happens, he's ready.

He should be learning other positions and methods of playing, like how to play with your back to the goal, how to pass to someone in a better position, or taking free kicks and corners.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Who said Plata is worried about getting playing time? He sure didn't say it. He didn't even say he was leaving on his twitter account. He thanks the fans of toronto.

[Greatest Ripoff]

He should be learning...taking free kicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ssXj2CAkpo

watch at the 15 second mark.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I can't believe Plata would tweet his love for we fans for any other reason but his leaving. Mariner's flippant response is a kind of shot across the bow to any who fall out of favour with him.

I think it unfortunate since we're talking about the RPB player of the year who was one of the few bright spots last year. While I'm surprised Mariner couldn't find a spot for Plata as a super sub for at least the rest of the year, we've learned enough about Plata's personality to know that he's a touch to proud to be relegated to the bench for a season.

If this does result in an official transfer I'll be said to see him go and my expectations on Ryan Johnson will rise in result.

[Huyton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ssXj2CAkpo

watch at the 15 second mark.

Sorry...I'd forgotten about that...thanks!

I was just trying to think of the sorts of things he could learn by being with a team of higher quality than the one he'd be loaned to.

In some ways, it must be tough for a player to decide to go out on loan to get playing minutes, or stay behind to get superior coaching.

[narduch]

Sorry...I'd forgotten about that...thanks!

I was just trying to think of the sorts of things he could learn by being with a team of higher quality than the one he'd be loaned to.

In some ways, it must be tough for a player to decide to go out on loan to get playing minutes, or stay behind to get superior coaching.

You make it sound like LDU Quito is some footballing backwater. I'd be willing to bet Plata will get better coaching there.

[[NBF]]

I can't believe Plata would tweet his love for we fans for any other reason but his leaving. Mariner's flippant response is a kind of shot across the bow to any who fall out of favour with him.

I think it unfortunate since we're talking about the RPB player of the year who was one of the few bright spots last year. While I'm surprised Mariner couldn't find a spot for Plata as a super sub for at least the rest of the year, we've learned enough about Plata's personality to know that he's a touch to proud to be relegated to the bench for a season.

If this does result in an official transfer I'll be said to see him go and my expectations on Ryan Johnson will rise in result.

Good thing he got the RPB man of the year award otherwise he would have left the team without saying good-bye and thanks to the fans for the support being showed to him which might or might not have been a reason for his "love" of the city and people.

IMO,this has more to do with Paul Mariner than anything. The pundits/journalist are describing him as an "emotional leader or spirited leader", Ive also heard the phrase, "He is a mad man on the sidelines." Whats not to say that he is a difficult person or stand off type of coach with added emotional baggage because of his wife's ailment. (I found it odd that he even mentioned his wife's ailment during the introductory press conference.)

Right now, I would be willing to suggest that Mariner is an old school, controlling head coach, who doesnt have the best support from management(as any other head coach before him), and is expecting more than he should from all the players as well as from Earl Cochrane and company.

The statement about Plata's situation just seems like frustration oozing out. Plata, might have said something to Mariner expecting a positive resolution with the head coach but its obvious Mariner did not rate him and might have been planning Plata's possible exit. Plata might have even been encouraged by Koevermans statement earlier about the team being the worst in the world. When you're young you make mistakes and misjudge situations and I think this was a moment where he put his foot in his mouth, but not entirely the reason for his exit.

All in all, I dont think Mariner lasts in the MLS or this team and he should of done what Dichio did and not accepted a promotion and stuck with a job that you know will not get you fired or on the chopping block during the purge season.

He's an old guy with issues at home and old school values, I would be worried if it gets to him one of these days.

Hey you kids get off my lawn.http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zKBbtj9rWrU/SbjsM17e4SI/AAAAAAAABYY/b9dgHVkxtBA/s400/hyegoml+Gran+Torino+02.jpg

[Blizzard]

;1506302']

The statement about Plata's situation just seems like frustration oozing out. Plata, might have said something to Mariner expecting a positive resolution with the head coach but its obvious Mariner did not rate him and might have been planning Plata's possible exit. Plata might have even been encouraged by Koevermans statement earlier about the team being the worst in the world. When you're young you make mistakes and misjudge situations and I think this was a moment where he put his foot in his mouth, but not entirely the reason for his exit.

It all makes me doubt that Plata was injured at all.

[denime]

Sorry...I'd forgotten about that...thanks!

I was just trying to think of the sorts of things he could learn by being with a team of higher quality than the one he'd be loaned to.

In some ways, it must be tough for a player to decide to go out on loan to get playing minutes, or stay behind to get superior coaching.

I'm sure he will get more playing time and more superior coaching at LDU Quito than here.

[SirBobSaget]

Sorry...I'd forgotten about that...thanks!

I was just trying to think of the sorts of things he could learn by being with a team of higher quality than the one he'd be loaned to.

In some ways, it must be tough for a player to decide to go out on loan to get playing minutes, or stay behind to get superior coaching.

LDU Quito are the 2008 Libertadores (SA Champions League) and FIFA World Club Finalist (losing 1-0 to Man Utd). Quito has made more Club World Cup appearances in the past 5 years than TFC has made appearances in MLS playoffs.

[moralis]

Seems like TFC centre back target Davide Zoboli is waiting to get news from TFC on possible signing:

https://twitter.com/#!/davide_zoboli (https://twitter.com/#%21/davide_zoboli)

https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/Davide Zoboli (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/realtime/Davide%20Zoboli)

I'm guessing the front office needs to deal with the Joao Plata case before they can sign someone. Joao Plata's loan is key to other signings.

[jazzy]

[QUOTE=moralis;1506393]Seems like TFC centre back target Davide Zoboli is waiting to get news from TFC on possible signing:


they better talk to him..as Nesta's leaning to montreal...'connections'...(of course).....if this happens why have the biggest soccer contributers in TO
( or earliest at least,; the Italians )..been consistently ignored by TFC.... this city's sporting environment is being pushed to total oblivion by MLSE.....and whoever IS running it?...lovers of the regime .....

[jloome]

[QUOTE=moralis;1506393]Seems like TFC centre back target Davide Zoboli is waiting to get news from TFC on possible signing:


they better talk to him..as Nesta's leaning to montreal...'connections'...(of course).....if this happens why have the biggest soccer contributers in TO
( or earliest at least,; the Italians )..been consistently ignored by TFC.... this city's sporting environment is being pushed to total oblivion by MLSE.....and whoever IS running it?...lovers of the regime .....

Zoboli is apparently headed home.

Not to fuel anything, but I noticed this in the latest Castrol Index:

271 Joao Plata Toronto FC 636 320



272 Terry Dunfield Toronto FC 816 317

[__wowza]

^^

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tracey-jordan-nope.gif

[T-boy]

Sounds like Mariner has problems to me - he can't get his ego around managing 19 year olds - instead he sounds off to the press - that is impressive and mature - no doubt! T-boy you should be diciplined for your public statements!

I'm pretty sure Mariner wouoldn't come out with a public statement unless something had happened behind the scenes for his to say it. We don't know what has happened, we don't know what Plata has done/said to warrent a reaction from management. Plata seems to be the one who made the original statement of intent of his departure, and I don't blame Mariner for equally saying something in return!

[Canary10]

I'm pretty sure Mariner wouoldn't come out with a public statement unless something had happened behind the scenes for his to say it. We don't know what has happened, we don't know what Plata has done/said to warrent a reaction from management. Plata seems to be the one who made the original statement of intent of his departure, and I don't blame Mariner for equally saying something in return!

The ham fisted way Cochrane tried to engage in some damage control PR Saturday night to the very media that watched Plata clean out his locker 45 minutes later was an embarrassment. Clearly a move was/still is being worked out. For him to blatantly lie about it dug TFC deeper.

Mariner, for his part, should be smarter than that. He's got to control his temper better. Plata is TFC's most popular player. He seems to have forgotten that when he wrote him out of the team, then criticizing him publicly for being pissed off about being written off the team.

[reggie]

the club is a total embarrassment from the F.O to this mad man of a coach.
can we start over???can the league take over this club?

[flamehawk]

According to Kurt Larson's twitter, training was closed to media today... the intrigue continues. I really doubt Plata is training with the team.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Plata seems to be the one who made the original statement of intent of his departure, and I don't blame Mariner for equally saying something in return!

And what statement was that? He tweeted a thank you to the fans. What is wrong with that?

[OfficeGuy]

seems RPB Player of the year has the same curse as the Madden NFL Game Cover.....

[T-boy]

And what statement was that? He tweeted a thank you to the fans. What is wrong with that?

I'm just saying what I've read in the press/on here (that's he's cleared his locker?). We really all do need to wait and see what official news there is on this though, i think some people are jumping up and down at news that isn't official and filling in their own blanks (like I clearly have too!).

[Greatest Ripoff]

I'm just saying what I've read in the press/on here (that's he's cleared his locker?). We really all do need to wait and see what official news there is on this though, i think some people are jumping up and down at news that isn't official and filling in their own blanks (like I clearly have too!).

Not only did he clear his locker but as reported by Molinaro, TFC had removed his metal name plate from his locker.

[T-boy]

Not only did he clear his locker but as reported by Molinaro, TFC had removed his metal name plate from his locker.

Or did he remove it himself in a fit of RAGE?!

(I have no idea, just postulating!).

[Ajax TFC]

I'm pretty sure Mariner wouoldn't come out with a public statement unless something had happened behind the scenes for his to say it. We don't know what has happened, we don't know what Plata has done/said to warrent a reaction from management. Plata seems to be the one who made the original statement of intent of his departure, and I don't blame Mariner for equally saying something in return!
wait, so your evidence that Plata did/said something to piss Mariner off is that Mariner wouldn't have responded in such a way otherwise? Do you even realize that you're making up evidence to defend Mariner?

[ryan]

Or did he remove it himself in a fit of RAGE?!

(I have no idea, just postulating!).

Could he even reach it? g:D

[BeachTory]

Plata was not at training this AM. I am here with my boy in the tfc camp. Watched the session with the other parents.
my six year old got DK to sign his shirt but had no clue. Youth is wasted on the young.

[Phil]

seems RPB Player of the year has the same curse as the Madden NFL Game Cover.....

So I am not the only one noticing this...

[Derko]

Some more possible sighning news would keep me interested, what a Gong Show.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-krGL4FLe4fA/TkUavBOqmMI/AAAAAAAAHO4/bJYjDE7Bvl4/s1600/Logo.png

[T-boy]

Plata was not at training this AM. I am here with my boy in the tfc camp. Watched the session with the other parents.
my six year old got DK to sign his shirt but had no clue. Youth is wasted on the young.

For a second I thought you were going to say that Plata was training with the 6 year olds!

[Kaz]

Ok let me see if I have this straight.

Papers in South America and Twitter from Canadian Reporters, seem to report Plata is leaving on a 6 months deal.

He is currently not getting time with TFC, and doesn't fit super well in the system.

Mariner seems to be pissed at something aggressive said by Plata.

Cochrane stated prior to Plata saying his goodbyes via twitter, and cleaning out his locker. That at this moment Plata is still under contract with TFC and no deals have been reached.


So lets look at this from a none Fan rage view.

Plata is frustrated at lack of minutes, he says something, possibly fuelled by Koevs, frustration or ego, to Mariner. Mariner get the idea to remove the kid for a bit for what ever reason, free up some cap, and an international spot. The deal is being worked out but nothing is official. Local papers in Quito get wind of things and start reporting it as fact before it's done. Plata tweets from the article. The deal isn't actually done though and wasn't finished until Saturday evening during the game, after Earl states the truth without allusion because the deal isn't done yet, and if it does fall through at the last second he doesn't want egg on his face. It goes through, Plata starts to pack up because he knows he isn't going to dress, and gets ready to fly home to see his family. Which is the best place for him, if he is going to not get minutes here.

This as an aside free's up an international spot, deals with a potential locker room issue quickly, but with no long term issues that would come from a straight trade. It would also allow the team to bring in the rumoured CB that has been being talked about.

It hasn't been announced as far as I know at this point (Tuesday Night) possibly because the paper work isn't fully signed with the holiday.

This would explain most everything.

The only person that step over a line really is Mariner, though Plata may have jumped the gun a bit, but he didn't do anything wrong. Mariner can be forgiven a little bit for frustration and personal issues, which leave us all at issue at times.

Yes the front office is dumb, yes most everyone above Mariner really needs to go. But at this point I don't see a need to remove Mariner. He's showing better results then Winter was having, and we still have a very inexperienced young back line, because the off season things were dealt with properly. These issue even if caused by Mariner in part or whole were signed off on by Winter who was at the top.

So as far as this issue goes there is certainly better ways to look at it then I've seen here.

[ouderwien]

Plata is frustrated at lack of minutes, he says something, possibly fuelled by Koevs, frustration or ego, to Mariner. Mariner get the idea to remove the kid for a bit for what ever reason, free up some cap, and an international spot. The deal is being worked out but nothing is official. Local papers in Quito get wind of things and start reporting it as fact before it's done. Plata tweets from the article. The deal isn't actually done though and wasn't finished until Saturday evening during the game, after Earl states the truth without allusion because the deal isn't done yet, and if it does fall through at the last second he doesn't want egg on his face. It goes through, Plata starts to pack up because he knows he isn't going to dress, and gets ready to fly home to see his family. Which is the best place for him, if he is going to not get minutes here.



Sorry, I've missed that part. What do you mean by that or Where did you hear that. Not questioning just curious, haven't heard anything like that...or most likely missed it.

[T-boy]

Sorry, I've missed that part. What do you mean by that or Where did you hear that. Not questioning just curious, haven't heard anything like that...or most likely missed it.

what we don't know is what has happened behind the scenes. Something, I think, has happened that has irked Mariner. I doubt its just Plata saying something on Twitter...its likely something much more serious than that.

Let's not forget that Plata wasn't playing in the first team even before PM took over, so it could be something that has been going on for a while longer than the last 2 or 3 weeks.

[Canary10]

Ok let me see if I have this straight.

Papers in South America and Twitter from Canadian Reporters, seem to report Plata is leaving on a 6 months deal.

He is currently not getting time with TFC, and doesn't fit super well in the system.

Mariner seems to be pissed at something aggressive said by Plata.

Cochrane stated prior to Plata saying his goodbyes via twitter, and cleaning out his locker. That at this moment Plata is still under contract with TFC and no deals have been reached.


So lets look at this from a none Fan rage view.

Plata is frustrated at lack of minutes, he says something, possibly fuelled by Koevs, frustration or ego, to Mariner. Mariner get the idea to remove the kid for a bit for what ever reason, free up some cap, and an international spot. The deal is being worked out but nothing is official. Local papers in Quito get wind of things and start reporting it as fact before it's done. Plata tweets from the article. The deal isn't actually done though and wasn't finished until Saturday evening during the game, after Earl states the truth without allusion because the deal isn't done yet, and if it does fall through at the last second he doesn't want egg on his face. It goes through, Plata starts to pack up because he knows he isn't going to dress, and gets ready to fly home to see his family. Which is the best place for him, if he is going to not get minutes here.

This as an aside free's up an international spot, deals with a potential locker room issue quickly, but with no long term issues that would come from a straight trade. It would also allow the team to bring in the rumoured CB that has been being talked about.

It hasn't been announced as far as I know at this point (Tuesday Night) possibly because the paper work isn't fully signed with the holiday.

This would explain most everything.

The only person that step over a line really is Mariner, though Plata may have jumped the gun a bit, but he didn't do anything wrong. Mariner can be forgiven a little bit for frustration and personal issues, which leave us all at issue at times.

Yes the front office is dumb, yes most everyone above Mariner really needs to go. But at this point I don't see a need to remove Mariner. He's showing better results then Winter was having, and we still have a very inexperienced young back line, because the off season things were dealt with properly. These issue even if caused by Mariner in part or whole were signed off on by Winter who was at the top.

So as far as this issue goes there is certainly better ways to look at it then I've seen here.

Mariner's comments were dumb, I agree. Who's the 20 year old here, him or Plata?

But Earl Cochrane's comments take the cake. He went to the media room to "clear things up," telling reporters that Plata is with the team, only to have those very same reporters watch Plata clean out his office and say good-bye to everyone only 45 minutes later. The egg is squarely on his face.

I hear they are going to "clear up" the Plata situation again tonight before the Dallas game. What's he going to say this time? Plata is still with the team, we were just moving his locker over two spaces?

[Canary10]

what we don't know is what has happened behind the scenes. Something, I think, has happened that has irked Mariner. I doubt its just Plata saying something on Twitter...its likely something much more serious than that.

Let's not forget that Plata wasn't playing in the first team even before PM took over, so it could be something that has been going on for a while longer than the last 2 or 3 weeks.

Plata wasn't playing regularly under Winter because of form, but under Mariner he is totally marginalized. He has no place in the formation Mariner is using. It's abundandtly clear what prompted Plata to seek a move. I just hope it's a loan, because he's good enough and young enough to still contribute to the team.

[T-boy]

Plata wasn't playing regularly under Winter because of form, but under Mariner he is totally marginalized. He has no place in the formation Mariner is using. It's abundandtly clear what prompted Plata to seek a move. I just hope it's a loan, because he's good enough and young enough to still contribute to the team.

How do we actually KNOW that Plata wasn't playing "just due to lack of form"?

I don't agree that Plata has no place in Mariner's formation. Plata is excellent at tracking back and working for the team, as Mariner has set out. Avila has played that roll well, and I believe Plata can as well.

I honestly think there is more to all this than we know.

[PopePouri]

Plata wasn't playing regularly under Winter because of form, but under Mariner he is totally marginalized. He has no place in the formation Mariner is using. It's abundandtly clear what prompted Plata to seek a move. I just hope it's a loan, because he's good enough and young enough to still contribute to the team.

If Mariner believes what he says that the players dictate the system, I don't think this is true. Many 4-4-2s have a target man and a quicker more technical player to play off of.

[denime]

some more possible sighning news would keep me interested, what a gong show.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-krgl4fle4fa/tkuavboqmmi/aaaaaaaaho4/bjyjde7bvl4/s1600/logo.png

gong show indeed


“you guys have seen rumours floating around. That’s what they are,” team executive earl cochrane said on saturday. “plata, today, is a toronto fc player ... We’ve toyed with the idea and we’re continuing to think about whether we loan him out.”


“at the beginning, i did not want to give up because (toronto) wanted me to stay,” plata told vive deporte, an online spanish publication. “i told them that i wanted to return to (ecuador) and with them things are well ... I come to give everything to (ldu quito).”

[Canary10]

If Mariner believes what he says that the players dictate the system, I don't think this is true. Many 4-4-2s have a target man and a quicker more technical player to play off of.

He'd be worth a shot there for sure, but his strength isn't playing in the middle. One of the Spanish articles said Plata wasn't happy with the direction of the team. It doesn't take much to realize the formation doesn't play to his strengths.

[Pookie]

I think we forget this is a development league. Plata didn't dream of winning MLS Cups as a kid. He probably saw his future in big leagues and international competitions. As a footballer, Plata was more than happy to resign here in the offseason. He, as a 19-20 yr old had an opportunity to learn under Aron Winter. Something even JDG was ecstatic about when the announcement was made last year.

3 Months later, he's out. What's different?

Over the last month and a bit, the team is gone to a traditional model. If it that article reference's Plata not being happy with the direction of the team, who can blame him? He left his home country to learn skills to develop his career. Not chase down long balls.

[T-boy]

He'd be worth a shot there for sure, but his strength isn't playing in the middle. One of the Spanish articles said Plata wasn't happy with the direction of the team. It doesn't take much to realize the formation doesn't play to his strengths.

He would be a hell of a lot better than Dunfield and JDG in the 2 wide position of the current 4-4-2! He's a better player than both, tracks back hard, and is a much better threat. If I were Mariner, I would LOVE to see what Plata could do in his formation!

[Canary10]

He would be a hell of a lot better than Dunfield and JDG in the 2 wide position of the current 4-4-2! He's a better player than both, tracks back hard, and is a much better threat. If I were Mariner, I would LOVE to see what Plata could do in his formation!

I'm not sure you watch him too closely. He has no positional sense whatsoever! That's less an issue where he's been playing, but midfielders have to play some defence. He rarely tracks back, and he can't win balls.

[T-boy]

I think we forget this is a development league. Plata didn't dream of winning MLS Cups as a kid. He probably saw his future in big leagues and international competitions. As a footballer, Plata was more than happy to resign here in the offseason. He, as a 19-20 yr old had an opportunity to learn under Aron Winter. Something even JDG was ecstatic about when the announcement was made last year.

3 Months later, he's out. What's different?

Over the last month and a bit, the team is gone to a traditional model. If it that article reference's Plata not being happy with the direction of the team, who can blame him? He left his home country to learn skills to develop his career. Not chase down long balls.


If this is the case, then I would love to see him leave! I want players here who want to play for TFC, who want to wear the red with pride. Not a player who was a lovechild of a coach and only wants to play for them! If you are correct, he definitely doesn't care about the city, the team, or its fans!

[T-boy]

I'm not sure you watch him too closely. He has no positional sense whatsoever! That's less an issue where he's been playing, but midfielders have to play some defence.

I've watched him closely, for sure. A lot of people were applauding him last season FOR is defensive work, if you remember. He would often track back and HE would be the one tackling in a defensive position.

[Canary10]

I've watched him closely, for sure. A lot of people were applauding him last season FOR is defensive work, if you remember. He would often track back and HE would be the one tackling in a defensive position.

I agree with you on a lot of things, but this I don't at all. He was applauded for scoring goals and being a general nuisance to defenses around opposing boxes, not for his defensive work. If he played the outside mid of a 4-4-2 we would be losing a lot defensively. I'd sooner see him tried out in the middle.

[Canary10]

If this is the case, then I would love to see him leave! I want players here who want to play for TFC, who want to wear the red with pride. Not a player who was a lovechild of a coach and only wants to play for them! If you are correct, he definitely doesn't care about the city, the team, or its fans!

You're saying that about the guy who is the face of TFC, all for his $50,000 salary.

[Pookie]

If this is the case, then I would love to see him leave! I want players here who want to play for TFC, who want to wear the red with pride. Not a player who was a lovechild of a coach and only wants to play for them! If you are correct, he definitely doesn't care about the city, the team, or its fans!

You completely miss the point of a developmental league. You think Richard Eckersley gave up a shot at the Premiership to play for TFC because of a love affair with the team and the dream of an MLS Cup?

No.

He came here because his career was stalled and felt that by playing in a developmental league he could improve himself to the point that he can get a second shot at a top tier league.

The aspiration for any MLS team is to develop players to the point that they leave for bigger and better things. That is what will attract aspiring and hungry players.

Plata, looks like, he felt that staying here would be a step backwards in his career. Drop the crest and club bullshit and realize that for a player to conclude he can't develop here, for a developmental team in a developmental league with agents looking for developmental opportunities for their players, that's not a good thing.

[T-boy]

You completely miss the point of a developmental league. You think Richard Eckersley gave up a shot at the Premiership to play for TFC because of a love affair with the team and the dream of an MLS Cup?

No.

He came here because his career was stalled and felt that by playing in a developmental league he could improve himself to the point that he can get a second shot at a top tier league.

The aspiration for any MLS team is to develop players to the point that they leave for bigger and better things. That is what will attract aspiring and hungry players.

Plata, looks like, he felt that staying here would be a step backwards in his career. Drop the crest and club bullshit and realize that for a player to conclude he can't develop here, for a developmental team in a developmental league with agents looking for developmental opportunities for their players, that's not a good thing.

I agree, and therefore he can gladly leave!

You don't see Ecks or Morgan, or Henry, or Hall - ALL young improving players, throwing their toys out of their pram right now, do you? They are all professionals and keep playing for their club until another (better) offer comes along.

If Plata is saying that he doesn't want to be here - that's fine - he should leave. And I don't care, we are better off without him if he doesn't want to play for OUR club!

[T-boy]

You're saying that about the guy who is the face of TFC, all for his $50,000 salary.

I'm fairly sure Frings and Koev's are more a face of the club than Plata has bever been. Plata has had one good season at the club - but one season isn't a career. It's like saying Nana Attakora was face of the club for his one good season.

Plata needs to prove that he's a worthy player by keeping his head down, working hard, and playing for his team. I don't think other clubs are going to look at him, right now, and say "that's a player we need here" - seeing that he has had one good season, and a poor start to the next season, and then a willingness to leave his club at the first glance of change.

[Canary10]

I'm fairly sure Frings and Koev's are more a face of the club than Plata has bever been. Plata has had one good season at the club - but one season isn't a career. It's like saying Nana Attakora was face of the club for his one good season.

Plata needs to prove that he's a worthy player by keeping his head down, working hard, and playing for his team. I don't think other clubs are going to look at him, right now, and say "that's a player we need here" - seeing that he has had one good season, and a poor start to the next season, and then a willingness to leave his club at the first glance of change.

Ha. Try telling that to the average fan.

Mariner said at the start it would be his way or the highway, so I'm not surprised you feel that way. Personally, writing the most creative and fastest player off the team at the age of 20 seems foolish, but I didn't take Mariner at face value when he said he'd fit the formation to the players.

[denime]

Ha. Try telling that to the average fan.

Mariner said at the start it would be his way or the highway, so I'm not surprised you feel that way. Personally, writing the most creative and fastest player off the team at the age of 20 seems foolish, but I didn't take Mariner at face value when he said he'd fit the formation to the players.

Good for you,because his "tweaking and playing the formation that will fit the players" is joke of the year.

from today's article in the sun:

“It’s a work in progress,” head coach Paul Mariner said. “We’re a young back four, we’re changing the system, we’re trying to get our blocks and sometimes the guys just forget a little bit ... Like I said: All together.”

[Greatest Ripoff]

If Plata is saying that he doesn't want to be here - that's fine - he should leave. And I don't care, we are better off without him if he doesn't want to play for OUR club!

Please show me where Plata is saying he doesn't want to be here.

[flamehawk]

Larson's Twitter: Mariner on signings: Looking at (players) who are ex-U.S. internationals and Canadian internationals. I watched the Honduras game closely.
Mariner on signings: There's a number of Canada players. You always want to bring them home. A lot of very good Canadian players out there.

Who played against Honduras and was out of contract?

[ag futbol]

Larson's Twitter: Mariner on signings: Looking at (players) who are ex-U.S. internationals and Canadian internationals. I watched the Honduras game closely.
Mariner on signings: There's a number of Canada players. You always want to bring them home. A lot of very good Canadian players out there.

Who played against Honduras and was out of contract?
Looking down the Canadians lineup I don't see anyone who'd be available and interesting. A lot of the better players just signed new contracts.

For the Americans ... who knows? They'd go to allocation anyways, so to say we're "scouting" them is a bit of a crock of shit. We'll have to take or leave whatever comes our way.

[jloome]

I'm not sure you watch him too closely. He has no positional sense whatsoever! That's less an issue where he's been playing, but midfielders have to play some defence. He rarely tracks back, and he can't win balls.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I find him very overrated. His size and low centre of gravity, combined with decent-but-not-awe-inspiring foot skills, make him occasionally dangerous. But he's muscled off constantly, blows the dribble three out of four times, doesn't cross particularly well, and has trouble getting shots off in traffic.

Rohan Ricketts could occasionally dribble past a guy as well, and once scored two beauties in one game. I genuinely don't see too much difference between their on-field performances.

[jloome]

Please show me where Plata is saying he doesn't want to be here.


Like, a handful of slots above you in this thread.

[SirBobSaget]

Larson's Twitter: Mariner on signings: Looking at (players) who are ex-U.S. internationals and Canadian internationals. I watched the Honduras game closely.
Mariner on signings: There's a number of Canada players. You always want to bring them home. A lot of very good Canadian players out there.

Who played against Honduras and was out of contract?

Scouring the wiki pages, the only possible one I found is Ledgerwood. he looked as good as Johnson and can play multiple positions on the right side. Would be a good signing IMO. 27 years old bouncing around lower division Germany last few years.

On 12 July 2010, Ledgerwood signed a two-year contract with SV Wehen Wiesbaden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV_Wehen_Wiesbaden).



From this June 18th article http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1589/canada/2012/06/18/3183726/canadians-abroad-transfer-rumor-roundup-hoilett-linked-to

Nik Ledgerwood: The 27-year-old midfielder will be a free agent next month when his contract with German third division side SV Wehen Wiesbaden expires. He's said to be looking for a move back into the 2. Bundesliga.

[T-boy]

Good for you,because his "tweaking and playing the formation that will fit the players" is joke of the year.

from today's article in the sun:

Joke of the year that has the punchline of 4 games undefeated! If all Mariner's jokes are that good, then I'll be happy :D

[T-boy]

Scouring the wiki pages, the only possible one I found is Ledgerwood. he looked as good as Johnson and can play multiple positions on the right side. Would be a good signing IMO. 27 years old bouncing around lower division Germany last few years.

On 12 July 2010, Ledgerwood signed a two-year contract with SV Wehen Wiesbaden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV_Wehen_Wiesbaden).



From this June 18th article http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1589/canada/2012/06/18/3183726/canadians-abroad-transfer-rumor-roundup-hoilett-linked-to

Nik Ledgerwood: The 27-year-old midfielder will be a free agent next month when his contract with German third division side SV Wehen Wiesbaden expires. He's said to be looking for a move back into the 2. Bundesliga.

Although I wasn't impressed with Ledgerwood in the international games, I'm sure he would do a good job in the MLS and would be useful for TFC.

[T-boy]

Ha. Try telling that to the average fan.

Mariner said at the start it would be his way or the highway, so I'm not surprised you feel that way. Personally, writing the most creative and fastest player off the team at the age of 20 seems foolish, but I didn't take Mariner at face value when he said he'd fit the formation to the players.

the Average Joe fan still thinks DeRo is face of the club! :p

[Gazza]

Ledgerwood just seems like a younger Dunfield to me. He did a really good job of shadowing for the CMNT the passed two games. The effort is there and he'd give you a full 90, but there isn't much there in the way of skill or IQ going forward. Like Dunfield, he seems to be overwhelmed when he has time on the ball.

[ryan]

Larson's Twitter: Mariner on signings: Looking at (players) who are ex-U.S. internationals and Canadian internationals. I watched the Honduras game closely.
Mariner on signings: There's a number of Canada players. You always want to bring them home. A lot of very good Canadian players out there.

Who played against Honduras and was out of contract?

Tosaint Ricketts wasn't being paid for a while and I think left his club.

[Gazza]

Tosaint Ricketts wasn't being paid for a while and I think left his club.

Should we start dusting off our Ricketts jerseys??

I actually would really like a Tosaint signing. He's really impressed me recently. Seems like a quality character too.

[zamperina]

I'm thinking Paul Stalteri, he tried to make a go of it in Bundesliga but no teams were interestd. I think his last shot for playing time is here in Toronto.

[KGH]

Rickets doesn't solve our Defensive issues.

What about David Edgar? He's bounced back and forth on loan. Could be a similar pickup to Ecks.

Also what about Issey Morgan Nakajima-Farran? Might help our midfield a bit

[SirBobSaget]

Rickets doesn't solve our Defensive issues.

What about David Edgar? He's bounced back and forth on loan. Could be a similar pickup to Ecks.

Also what about Issey Morgan Nakajima-Farran? Might help our midfield a bit

Edgar finally broke into the Burnley 1st team last season, played in 49 games.
Nakajima-Farran is reportedly signed to a Cyprus club.

[Auzzy]

Oh no, more Canadians, Pookie's gonna lose his shit. g:D

[ag futbol]

I'm not a huge fan of most of these prospects but David Edgar would be a very solid signing. That being said, we're not going to be competing with Championship wages and he's probably not interested in coming home too soon.

Nakajima-Farran is a poor fit for the team at this time, would have been better under Winter. I'd be worried about him handling the physical play here, considering A-league fans in australia were accusing him of being soft, and they tend to be way more on the technical end of football compared to MLS.

[DoubleUp]

I'm not a huge fan of most of these prospects but David Edgar would be a very solid signing. That being said, we're not going to be competing with Championship wages and he's probably not interested in coming home too soon.

Nakajima-Farran is a poor fit for the team at this time, would have been better under Winter. I'd be worried about him handling the physical play here, considering A-league fans in australia were accusing him of being soft, and they tend to be way more on the technical end of football compared to MLS.

Agree with AG's Assessment. Edgar wont happen at this stage in his career. The Issey shipped sailed when he signed in cyprus, but would have made a great wide forward in winters 4-3-3.

Only canuck that could raise our level atm, is Hutch.

[Yohan]

Agree with AG's Assessment. Edgar wont happen at this stage in his career. The Issey shipped sailed when he signed in cyprus, but would have made a great wide forward in winters 4-3-3.

Only canuck that could raise our level atm, is Hutch.
Kevin McKenna, Josh Simpson. Marcel de Jong. Even Simeon Jackson. this DeRo guy.

[DoubleUp]

Kevin McKenna, Josh Simpson. Marcel de Jong. Even Simeon Jackson. this DeRo guy.


Simeon and Dero arent gonna happen.


kevin...meh.

de jong...average!


Josh due to system is a no fit.

[Yohan]

Simeon and Dero arent gonna happen.


kevin...meh.

de jong...average!


Josh due to system is a no fit.
If you think Ashtone Morgan is better than de Jong... well...
Kevin McKenna does helluva better job of organizing TFC defence than Cann

[Pookie]

Oh no, more Canadians, Pookie's gonna lose his shit. g:D

Ironic considering where I am typing from. iPads are wonderful.

Actually ok with the idea of bringing in 3 of the best available CDNs considering the quota is 3. After that, best (Domestic) man for the job.

1/3 of the roster with CDN passports is both a joke and symptom of mismanagement.

[DoubleUp]

If you think Ashtone Morgan is better than de Jong... well...
Kevin McKenna does helluva better job of organizing TFC defence than Cann

maybe he is! maybe he isnt! but ashtone hasnt done anything to lose his spot to a marginally better de jong.

and Mckenna is good yes, but I dont have the same centerback fetish as everyone else. I would prefer a midfielder of equal or greater quality.

[ag futbol]

maybe he is! maybe he isnt! but ashtone hasnt done anything to lose his spot to a marginally better de jong.
I agree Morgan is a good bargain option in MLS. I'd like to see a player of similar quality push him for his spot, but a huge upgrade is a waste of resources IMO

[MartinUtd]

maybe he is! maybe he isnt! but ashtone hasnt done anything to lose his spot to a marginally better de jong.

and Mckenna is good yes, but I dont have the same centerback fetish as everyone else. I would prefer a midfielder of equal or greater quality.

You're satisfied with our back line? REALLY?

[ag futbol]

^ I don't think our backline is great, but I think people under estimate how badly our midfield needs to be improved. We've collected a bunch of players who simply don't complement each other properly and aren't a good fit for MLS.

As a group they aren't very dynamic going forward, aren't very fast, and aren't very physical. I'd find one money in the bank defensive mid and one bargain one to upgrade dunfield, as well as a wide player who has speed but doesn't mind getting his nose dirty.

[DoubleUp]

You're satisfied with our back line? REALLY?

I am willing to let it gel instead of tearing it apart, every time a goal goes in. If you look at the MlS in general shoty defending is part of the league.

We should be looking at controlling play(midfield) and good team defending.

Spains back line isnt that good at defending(more attacking), but their midfield doesnt allow teams to test that theory.

[DoubleUp]

I agree Morgan is a good bargain option in MLS. I'd like to see a player of similar quality push him for his spot, but a huge upgrade is a waste of resources IMO

I thought thats what Aceval was for?:rolleyes:

[Phil]

I know Ricketts and Edgar have both made comments about liking the city / team.

Who knows, we will have to keep our ears to the ground and look to twitter I guess.

[T-boy]

No chance of Edgar coming IMO. He played nearly every game for Burnley last season. He would cost a pretty penny in transfer fee alone, and then a wage that would put him in DP status, for sure.

[Nestease]

Plata Update:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/07/04/joao_plata_remains_with_toronto_fc/


..."The reality of the situation is he's a Toronto FC player, he will remain a Toronto FC player during the course of that loan," Cochrance said. "I don't know what to say other than what I'm telling you is the situation...

..."You can speak to Ecuadorian news reports, you can speak to Twitter reports. What I'm telling you is the truth that we are working through the specifics of that six-month loan agreement, we think that's the best environment for Joao to continue his development and at the end of six months he will be a Toronto FC player again."...

..."I don't think he's forcing our hand or he has gone rogue or any of that sort of thing," Cochrane said. "I just think the dynamics of this situation are different...

..."I don't want anyone to think that this has been a sudden thing or that our hand has been forced in any way by any club. This has been something we've been talking about for a while."...

..."Again, we're talking about a 19-, 20-year-old player who is being pulled in a couple of different directions and one of those directions is by a former club. I don't see a problem that if it fell through that we'd have any issue bringing the player back."...

[T-boy]

I think we forget this is a development league. Plata didn't dream of winning MLS Cups as a kid. He probably saw his future in big leagues and international competitions. As a footballer, Plata was more than happy to resign here in the offseason. He, as a 19-20 yr old had an opportunity to learn under Aron Winter. Something even JDG was ecstatic about when the announcement was made last year.

3 Months later, he's out. What's different?

Over the last month and a bit, the team is gone to a traditional model. If it that article reference's Plata not being happy with the direction of the team, who can blame him? He left his home country to learn skills to develop his career. Not chase down long balls.

I was thinking about this over lunchtime!:

It's not as if Plata was signed with the club and Plata came knowing the system and formation. Plata was picked through the draft at a VERY low position. Plata was very lucky to be drafted at all, and in other seasons he would have been so LOW that he would have been on the supplementary draft or not on the draft at all! Plata was not originally purchased by TFC - he was offered as a draft loan player to the whole MLS league from his parent club.

So, now that Plata has got some reputation, he needs to take a reality check, if he thinks that he doesn't want to be here anymore as the "system doesn't suit him". It's NOT as though he knew the system here before he was picked in the draft. Plata could have easily been picked by any other team in the MLS and been playing any other system. TFC have put Plata's name on the map, not the other way around.

If Plata thinks that he can ONLY play for type of team, his whole career, that are playing technically superior, short passing football, then he really needs to get a grip! Every player needs to play different systems, and be able to adapt. Players who cannot do that, won't have a career and will fail (good example is Iro, good at the long ball in one team, horrible in the technical game in another team).

Plata was brought to the club as a draft player, not knowing if he would be successful or not. Other teams didn't want the guy (44th on the draft, I think? clearly other teams weren't interested!). He could have equally been signed by any of the other "kick and run" teams in the MLS, just missed out of the draft completely, or picked last (is that even being picked, that's a team who has no choice HAVING to pick the last draft number!).

If Plata was specifically scouted, and then purchased by TFC, then Plata would have every justification to throw a fit if the club changes direction. But that's not the case here. A Draft pick, at 44th, is a gamble, and he needs to realise that many other clubs turned him down. TFC gave him the opportunity, and he needs to stick it out, even with a new system.

[T-boy]

Plata Update:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/07/04/joao_plata_remains_with_toronto_fc/

It now sounds like this has all been going on for much longer than Mariner has been head coach? I don't think any of this is Mariner's doing at all.

Plata was dropped as first 11 choice by Winter in April/May, so this could have been all going on for a little while now?

[Canary10]

I was thinking about this over lunchtime!:

It's not as if Plata was signed with the club and Plata came knowing the system and formation. Plata was picked through the draft at a VERY low position. Plata was very lucky to be drafted at all, and in other seasons he would have been so LOW that he would have been on the supplementary draft or not on the draft at all! Plata was not originally purchased by TFC - he was offered as a draft loan player to the whole MLS league from his parent club.

So, now that Plata has got some reputation, he needs to take a reality check, if he thinks that he doesn't want to be here anymore as the "system doesn't suit him". It's NOT as though he knew the system here before he was picked in the draft. Plata could have easily been picked by any other team in the MLS and been playing any other system. TFC have put Plata's name on the map, not the other way around.

If Plata thinks that he can ONLY play for type of team, his whole career, that are playing technically superior, short passing football, then he really needs to get a grip! Every player needs to play different systems, and be able to adapt. Players who cannot do that, won't have a career and will fail (good example is Iro, good at the long ball in one team, horrible in the technical game in another team).

Plata was brought to the club as a draft player, not knowing if he would be successful or not. Other teams didn't want the guy (44th on the draft, I think? clearly other teams weren't interested!). He could have equally been signed by any of the other "kick and run" teams in the MLS, just missed out of the draft completely, or picked last (is that even being picked, that's a team who has no choice HAVING to pick the last draft number!).

If Plata was specifically scouted, and then purchased by TFC, then Plata would have every justification to throw a fit if the club changes direction. But that's not the case here. A Draft pick, at 44th, is a gamble, and he needs to realise that many other clubs turned him down. TFC gave him the opportunity, and he needs to stick it out, even with a new system.

I could be wrong about this, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Plata was still owned by Quito. So playing for TFC was actually his decision in the first place as, I would expect, having half his ownership dealt to Toronto. He could always have just stuck with Quito if he didn't want to be here (or if he was drafted by Columbus or some other long-ball playing team).

[Pookie]

I could be wrong about this, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Plata was still owned by Quito. So playing for TFC was actually his decision in the first place as, I would expect, having half his ownership dealt to Toronto. He could always have just stuck with Quito if he didn't want to be here (or if he was drafted by Columbus or some other long-ball playing team).

I think that the situation is pretty straightforward. The player wants to develop, as any aspiring 19-20 yr would. He isn't getting playing time here. The technical "guru" that was Aron Winter is no longer with the organization so he may have concluded that what he sees in training isn't really going to help him. Subjectively speaking, not to get any pro-Mariner folks' panties in a bunch. He was likely offered an opportunity to return home, with playing time, and jumped at it.

Sounds like Cochrane is suggesting that the paperwork...again with the paperwork... what is it with EC and paperwork.... is a hurdle given that he is being "loaned" back to the same team that sold him. Probably has a lot to do with the idea of a transfer fee being paid and then the player returning to the same team.

Plata isn't a turncoat. He isn't snubbing Toronto. He's simply looking out for his own development as each and every player on that team would do. They might reach different conclusions but not all of them are earning just $50k a year.

[T-boy]

I think that the situation is pretty straightforward. The player wants to develop, as any aspiring 19-20 yr would. He isn't getting playing time here. The technical "guru" that was Aron Winter is no longer with the organization so he may have concluded that what he sees in training isn't really going to help him. Subjectively speaking, not to get any pro-Mariner folks' panties in a bunch. He was likely offered an opportunity to return home, with playing time, and jumped at it.

Sounds like Cochrane is suggesting that the paperwork...again with the paperwork... what is it with EC and paperwork.... is a hurdle given that he is being "loaned" back to the same team that sold him. Probably has a lot to do with the idea of a transfer fee being paid and then the player returning to the same team.

Plata isn't a turncoat. He isn't snubbing Toronto. He's simply looking out for his own development as each and every player on that team would do. They might reach different conclusions but not all of them are earning just $50k a year.

So we think that this has ONLY all come about since Winter's departure? It sounds more like that this has been in the works BEFORE Winter left. Plata was dropped from the first team by Winter before Mariner took over. That's why I suspect something was going on while Winter was still here. So, I don't think there is much connection between Plata leaving now and Winter going, IMO.

[Pookie]

^ It sounds like he signed the contract about 4 months ago and sometime between now and then it soured. He signed knowing Winter's direction and his place on the roster.

As for being dropped from the starting 11, that's a disingenuous position. While true under Mariner, Plata's 638 minutes earned under Winter is still more than Silva, Hall and Soolsma. Further, under the 10 games in which he played for Winter, he started in 7 of them.

Not sure where that classifies as "in the works"

(Look, I want Mariner to do well too. Just be a little objective and we'll all get along fine)

[Pookie]

As for the Sportsnet article, anyone else see this as strange and hard to consider "plausible"?

"This isn't a sudden thing," (Earl Cochrane) said. "We've been having exploratory discussions regarding this and a potential loan for several months."

Taken at face value, we are to believe they entered

- months of renegotiations with his loaner club (2 months at least) to secure his buyout and release.
- reached a successful conclusion in Jan of 2012

.. And then started shopping him on Loan "for several months"

To recap, on January 10th, 2012 they stated:

"Re-signing Plata was a high priority for our club during the offseason. I have to compliment everyone involved for making this a reality. Plata wanted to remain in Toronto and we wanted to keep him. We know our fans will be happy with this announcement.”

Unless I need to repeat grade school math, I count six months at best between the time the ink is dry on his 2 year contract and now. In between, they were actively exploring loan options for him for several months???

How does that make any sense?

[ArmenJBX]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal. :D

[Canary10]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal. :D

We haven't gotten confirmation on that yet - from Cochrane's imitation of crisis media relations we heard that he could be traded, remember. A loan makes it more palatable for sure.

To a lot of less hard core fans, Plata leaving is a pretty big deal.

[Canary10]

So we think that this has ONLY all come about since Winter's departure? It sounds more like that this has been in the works BEFORE Winter left. Plata was dropped from the first team by Winter before Mariner took over. That's why I suspect something was going on while Winter was still here. So, I don't think there is much connection between Plata leaving now and Winter going, IMO.

I don't claim to know anything about internal personal relationships at TFC, but from my view I have absolutely no question that the change in direction is behind all this.

[Ajax TFC]

It now sounds like this has all been going on for much longer than Mariner has been head coach? I don't think any of this is Mariner's doing at all.

Plata was dropped as first 11 choice by Winter in April/May, so this could have been all going on for a little while now?
Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off
http://www.footballuser.com/formations/2012/05/413559_Toronto_FC.jpghttp://www.footballuser.com/formations/2012/05/411175_Toronto_FC.jpg
The move may have been in the works for a long time, but that doesn't mean it started under Winter.




I was thinking about this over lunchtime!:

It's not as if Plata was signed with the club and Plata came knowing the system and formation. Plata was picked through the draft at a VERY low position. Plata was very lucky to be drafted at all, and in other seasons he would have been so LOW that he would have been on the supplementary draft or not on the draft at all! Plata was not originally purchased by TFC - he was offered as a draft loan player to the whole MLS league from his parent club.

So, now that Plata has got some reputation, he needs to take a reality check, if he thinks that he doesn't want to be here anymore as the "system doesn't suit him". It's NOT as though he knew the system here before he was picked in the draft. Plata could have easily been picked by any other team in the MLS and been playing any other system. TFC have put Plata's name on the map, not the other way around.

If Plata thinks that he can ONLY play for type of team, his whole career, that are playing technically superior, short passing football, then he really needs to get a grip! Every player needs to play different systems, and be able to adapt. Players who cannot do that, won't have a career and will fail (good example is Iro, good at the long ball in one team, horrible in the technical game in another team).

Plata was brought to the club as a draft player, not knowing if he would be successful or not. Other teams didn't want the guy (44th on the draft, I think? clearly other teams weren't interested!). He could have equally been signed by any of the other "kick and run" teams in the MLS, just missed out of the draft completely, or picked last (is that even being picked, that's a team who has no choice HAVING to pick the last draft number!).

If Plata was specifically scouted, and then purchased by TFC, then Plata would have every justification to throw a fit if the club changes direction. But that's not the case here. A Draft pick, at 44th, is a gamble, and he needs to realise that many other clubs turned him down. TFC gave him the opportunity, and he needs to stick it out, even with a new system.
Plata stayed here because he liked our style of play. He could have just stayed with LdQ but he came back and he said that he came back because he liked the team.

Plata was originally sent to MLS on a development loan

[Oranje]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal. :D

Exactly, and back to the potential Canadian content; My money would be on Klukowski. They had an Italian/Canadian Left Back/Left Mid trailing (haven’t heard anything about that) and that is exactly what Kluks is. He only had 26 appearances due to injury on Manisaspor who were relegated to 1. Lig so I could see his contract having a relegation-release clause rendering him contract-less.

[spark]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

Agreed - there is nothing worse that blatantly making $hit up when it takes all of 5 seconds to determine if it's true or not. That post should be deleted.

[Darlofletch]

As for the Sportsnet article, anyone else see this as strange and hard to consider "plausible"?

"This isn't a sudden thing," (Earl Cochrane) said. "We've been having exploratory discussions regarding this and a potential loan for several months."

Taken at face value, we are to believe they entered

- months of renegotiations with his loaner club (2 months at least) to secure his buyout and release.
- reached a successful conclusion in Jan of 2012

.. And then started shopping him on Loan "for several months"

To recap, on January 10th, 2012 they stated:

"Re-signing Plata was a high priority for our club during the offseason. I have to compliment everyone involved for making this a reality. Plata wanted to remain in Toronto and we wanted to keep him. We know our fans will be happy with this announcement.”

Unless I need to repeat grade school math, I count six months at best between the time the ink is dry on his 2 year contract and now. In between, they were actively exploring loan options for him for several months???

How does that make any sense?

and let's say that that is all true, who exactly is the "we" that's been trying to pull this together. was winter involved and on board? I bloody hope so, and "we" wasn't just paul and earl planning for when mariner took over and changed formation.

[Richard]

Plata stayed here because he liked our style of play. He could have just stayed with LdQ but he came back and he said that he came back because he liked the team.

Plata was originally sent to MLS on a development loan

Makes me wonder why LDQ think MLS is a good development league, im fine with him going on loan and maybe when he is back he will be much better to play for us.

[cochrdoc]

I can`t believe all this whining about Plata.
He scored 3 goals in the league last year and has not produced much this season.He was not a starter with his team back home.The team is getting much better results with Mariner then Winter.Winter never changed his system and continually got clobbered.How many goals against did we give up under him and how many wins.Plata is not in Mariners plans.Time to move on.

[Pookie]

Why the freak out? I don't understand this.

It's a 6-month loan. Which means he comes back after 6 months. Which means we're loaning him out to grow.

This is not a big deal. :D

A loan is not a big deal.

HOWEVER:

- drafting a player and determining he is a key part of your future and then,

- negotiating with a team for his contract and then,

- signing him to a multi-year deal and then,

- paying a transfer fee equivalent to 20% of your salary cap for him (which is huge considering Henry and Marquez came for $0) and then,

- him taking an international roster spot and then,

- starting him in 7 of 10 games and then,

- apparently (someone or a group of someones) deciding several months after going through all of this, that you wish to loan him out (which I call bullshit on btw) and then,

- if that really did happen (he'd have to go to a nordic country or Japan given transfer windows) you'd have no international replacement available until July and then,

- deny he is leaving the club when everyone and their uncle knows he is leaving, and then

- bring up the idea of league discipline, which in itself is strange if everything is on the up and up, and then,

- try to say that it is just a regular deal but a complex one given the team involved was his former one and then,

.... we are just expected to sit back and think that it is a well oiled machine and we are making a big deal over nothing?

[jazzy]

Scouring the wiki pages, the only possible one I found is Ledgerwood. he looked as good as Johnson and can play multiple positions on the right side. Would be a good signing IMO. 27 years old bouncing around lower division Germany last few years.






On 12 July 2010, Ledgerwood signed a two-year contract with SV Wehen Wiesbaden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV_Wehen_Wiesbaden).






From this June 18th article http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1589/canada/2012/06/18/3183726/canadians-abroad-transfer-rumor-roundup-hoilett-linked-to

Nik Ledgerwood: The 27-year-old midfielder will be a free agent next month when his contract with German third division side SV Wehen Wiesbaden expires. He's said to be looking for a move back into the 2. Bundesliga.

and he basically played the whole game while Jackson sat because why?..third division????? we aim high don't we

[Fort York Redcoat]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off

The move may have been in the works for a long time, but that doesn't mean it started under Winter.




Plata stayed here because he liked our style of play. He could have just stayed with LdQ but he came back and he said that he came back because he liked the team.

Plata was originally sent to MLS on a development loan

That's a touch harsh. I assume he's alluding to the fact that Plata was getting less time even with Winter. Regardless of why, Plata was not as successful in league play this season as he was last season. I can see his personality wanting more playing time. It may have been why his club offered him up to MLS for a price, It's even more probable that that is why he's going back.

Pook I see the the smoke and like yourself think there's fire. The reported timing of committing to, and shopping around, Plata is suspect.

In the end, I would have him back but I don't see Mariner wanting him back. Especially if the same amount of money is involved.

[David_Oliveira]

I personally am a fan of ledgerwood. I think he has a fantastic workrate and i think playing with frings would help him quite a bit

[T-boy]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off


Next time I'll give a load of swear words and be violent and give personal attacks on various other posters, instead of trying to write an informed intellegent bit of writing about my argument, then. :facepalm:

[T-boy]

I can`t believe all this whining about Plata.
He scored 3 goals in the league last year and has not produced much this season.He was not a starter with his team back home.The team is getting much better results with Mariner then Winter.Winter never changed his system and continually got clobbered.How many goals against did we give up under him and how many wins.Plata is not in Mariners plans.Time to move on.

totally agreed. We certainly haven't needed the guy over the last few games! I would be picking Avila over Plata right now anyways. I would probably be picking Dunfield over him too, due to his workrate!

[__wowza]

Nonsense. Here's the last two starting XI's from the Winter era. Try checking your facts next time before you start running your mouth off


Next time I'll give a load of swear words and be violent and give personal attacks on various other posters, instead of trying to write an informed intellegent bit of writing about my argument, then. :facepalm:

oi, both of you relax. it's a transfer thread.
if you wanna go on the attack, then attack the post, not the poster.

[Ajax TFC]

Next time I'll give a load of swear words and be violent and give personal attacks on various other posters, instead of trying to write an informed intellegent bit of writing about my argument, then. :facepalm:
Or better yet, next time you could not make up facts to support your argument, and instead use actual facts. I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that writing facts that aren't real fell into the category of informed writing.
There were five matches in the month of April. Plata started the first four and was a sub in the fifth.
There were seven matches in the month of May. The first game, he sat on the bench. The next game, he came on at half time. He then started the next five games straight. I'd hardly call that being dropped from the starting XI as you claimed. If you want to make an argument around those three matches that he didn't start, then go ahead.
http://www.torontofc.ca/schedule <you can click "recap" to see the starting XI and subs

[Chinatownchef]

Ok, this is hypothetical, we all know that TFC did not have enough cap space to sign Nesta, by moving out Plata's salary for the short term perhaps trying to fit in a short-term space to fit the defender. Montreal apparently, seeing Toronto's jam, approaches Nesta for a deal. Wednesday July 4, we see Nesta in the Saputo stadium press box and the TSN announcer saying it is a as good as a "done deal". TFC is no doubt trying right now to maybe "recover" their asset in the use of Plata by maybe not allowing the loan to go through.

[T-boy]

Or better yet, next time you could not make up facts to support your argument, and instead use actual facts. I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that writing facts that aren't real fell into the category of informed writing.
There were five matches in the month of April. Plata started the first four and was a sub in the fifth.
There were seven matches in the month of May. The first game, he sat on the bench. The next game, he came on at half time. He then started the next five games straight. I'd hardly call that being dropped from the starting XI as you claimed. If you want to make an argument around those three matches that he didn't start, then go ahead.
http://www.torontofc.ca/schedule <you can click "recap" to see the starting XI and subs

Ok I'm sorry, I made up a load of crap and posted it. I'm very sorry if I caused offense to anybody. I'm clearly stupid and didn't realise that Plata didn't play every game in April. I have no right in being a footballer supporter or posting on this form, clearly. :(

[MartinUtd]

T-boy, give it a rest. So you were called out harshly for making things up, big deal. Take the lumps, learn from it, and keep the bullshit to a minimum next time.

[Yohan]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0
I personally am a fan of ledgerwood. I think he has a fantastic workrate and i think playing with frings would help him quite a bit

[David_Oliveira]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

I agree with you and don't understand the heat dunfield gets. I mean its not his fault he is our best option right now. Its Fo people's fault we have no one better to play there

[ryan]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

I've been doing it to him via the CMNT for a couple years now, no need to stop if he comes here. :D

[maninb]

Ledgerwood will get tarred and feathered as Dunfield 2.0

Seriously...If anyone thinks that a mediocre German 3rd divison player will help us (or the CNMT for that matter) then they are beyond hope...imo..LOL!

[T-boy]

T-boy, give it a rest. So you were called out harshly for making things up, big deal. Take the lumps, learn from it, and keep the bullshit to a minimum next time.

The point I was making about Plata was that Winter WAS using him LESS so far at the start of this season compared to last season. When Plata was starting, he was being subbed early apart from two games where he stayed on the field. I looked up the games and stats, and the ones where Plata started, he was being subbed either around the 60 minute mark, or during one game subbed at half I think it was. Then Plata WAS dropped for a couple of games (he didn't start at home to DC, he didn't start away at RSL). So, he was hardly first on the team sheet and playing all game. He was being used less than last season, where he would start and finish most games.

But you can only get information from stats to a certain degree. Stats don't EVER tell the whole story. If you looked at every football game from an OPTA point of view only, then your view of the game would be horribly misjudged. We ALL agree Plata's form this season has been extremely patchy at BEST. None of us were surprised when Plata was dropped by Winter for a couple of games. So, doesn't this point to the direction that something MIGHT have been going on behind the scenes?: Plata's poor form - dropped a couple of times, subbed early in games, not scoring goals or looking anywhere near as dangerous as last season.

Stats only tell half the story of this. I'm not completely "making things up" or talking BS. I'm telling it how it has been and how quite a few of the people on this forum see it. I'm not the only one who has said that "plata wasn't being played as much as last season". And Plata WAS dropped from the starting 11 by Winter himself for a couple of games. If all was good and roses, why has Plata's form dropped and his uncle Winter dropped him and started subbing him after being ineffective in games?

[Greatest Ripoff]

I agree with you and don't understand the heat dunfield gets. I mean its not his fault he is our best option right now. Its Fo people's fault we have no one better to play there


Dunfield is a better option than De Guzman?

[crozack]

Klukowski would be a nice addition here but he isnt looking at the MLS at all.

He's looking at either a team in the Far East or potentially another European based team.

The money out there is far to great to come to North America right now.

This isnt a guess.....I talked to his brother about this last week.

[T-boy]

Nobody has mentioned Ali Gerba! I bumped into him in a pie shop and he said he would love to come back to TFC and play. At least...that's what I think he said....he had 4 pies in his mouth the time! :p

[iy12l]

I'd rather play Stinson than Dunfied, because at least if Stinson makes a mistake, which he usually doesnt, he can learn from it quicker than that 30 year old slowpoke. And i think most people forgot that energy Stinson brought to this team when he was played frequently last year.

[Greatest Ripoff]

For those asking about Ricketts, he is on trial at Dynamo Dresden.

[pdogg]

I'd rather play Stinson than Dunfied, because at least if Stinson makes a mistake, which he usually doesnt, he can learn from it quicker than that 30 year old slowpoke. And i think most people forgot that energy Stinson brought to this team when he was played frequently last year.

Yes. Myopia is running rampant in the club. This season is lost (with the exception of CCL), so why are we not giving the players that we see as long term fixtures in the club more playing time? Why are the kids not coming in as late subs to get more 1st team experience? What is the harm in it, we couldn't we do worse than our first 15 games.

If PM is our long term solution, then he needs to be playing those he projects as starters and subs for next two years and ship out those that have some trade value. No point in having money sitting on the bench.

[cochrdoc]

This supporters club has alot of managers.The team is more competitive then it was at the beginning of the season and you complain about the manager.Dunfield has one of the highest workrates on the team.What has deguzman done .As for Stinson,I don`t think I have seen him doing anything positive on the field,therefore not much field action.The only playing time he got for the olympic team was at right fullback.There is no doubt this team needs some improvement with it`s roster but some of the suggestions are ridiculous.Bringing Nana back is not going to make this team any better.We need to bring in players who are going to put starters on the bench.Lambe and Aceval have not done that.We need to release some of the back end of the roster to make room to do it.reading what some of you have to say is like going to a middle school dance.

[DoubleUp]

This supporters club has alot of managers.The team is more competitive then it was at the beginning of the season and you complain about the manager.Dunfield has one of the highest workrates on the team.What has deguzman done .As for Stinson,I don`t think I have seen him doing anything positive on the field,therefore not much field action.The only playing time he got for the olympic team was at right fullback.There is no doubt this team needs some improvement with it`s roster but some of the suggestions are ridiculous.Bringing Nana back is not going to make this team any better.We need to bring in players who are going to put starters on the bench.Lambe and Aceval have not done that.We need to release some of the back end of the roster to make room to do it.reading what some of you have to say is like going to a middle school dance.


Totally agree!

The problem with these boards is you have listen to people who clearly dont know what they are talking about , its depressing.

While everyone else in the league seems to be making real strides to become better.:facepalm:

[[NBF]]

For those asking about Ricketts, he is on trial at Dynamo Dresden.

Ricketts, I dont think is much better than Sammy Nyassi. He also doesnt track back, although in the USA game in BMO, I saw him tracking back and playing at his best. What I dont get is how is he keeping Nakajima-Farran on the bench.

Anyone know if Jaime Peters is trialing anywhere?

[T-boy]

Yes. Myopia is running rampant in the club. This season is lost (with the exception of CCL), so why are we not giving the players that we see as long term fixtures in the club more playing time? Why are the kids not coming in as late subs to get more 1st team experience? What is the harm in it, we couldn't we do worse than our first 15 games.

If PM is our long term solution, then he needs to be playing those he projects as starters and subs for next two years and ship out those that have some trade value. No point in having money sitting on the bench.

I'm sure number 1 priority fo PM was to turn around the team and get them results and lift them off the bottom of the table. He needs his experienced players to do that. There will be time later in the season for the younger players to get gametime. But right now PM's future is based on results, not bringing in youth players.

[Kaz]

Sorry, I've missed that part. What do you mean by that or Where did you hear that. Not questioning just curious, haven't heard anything like that...or most likely missed it.


Sorry for the lateness, the forums aren't part of my daily routine any more.. 9 loses in a row kinda makes you not really interested in day to day following.

Umm I meant end of May Koevs TFC is the worse time in the World. That was and is an accurate assessment at the time, and it may have left a few people thinking, particularly a youngster like Plata.



Also on the side of this I watched the Presser with Mariner making his Comments... previously I'd heard it all second hand

He was blind sided by them, I think it was a little tactless, and seemed to show signs that Plata had or his agent may have been pushing for something.

But he seemed to know nothing about Plata cleaning out his locker, that seemed to be Plata choosing to do that without the knowledge of Management.

Think about how you'd react, if you just drew a game, were talking about maybe having the kid in your line up that night, and then being asked about him say bye and cleaning out his locker... I think Mariner had every right to be annoyed that he was hearing about it this way, and his comments weren't really all that bad, as they were brought about by shock. He went a little too far but I think we all have.