TFC in-season player movement thread

[BHTC Mike]

yeah, somebody better tell Mariner this Caribbean / Bermuda scouting 'love fest' won't work, Shalrie Joseph was a one time deal.....
Well, they also got a number of good years out of Khano Smith and Avery John during the NicolRevs heyday. We've got Ryan Johnson already and Tyrone Marshall's won some championship rings and been on playoff teams all around the league (except here). Stern John went through Columbus before launching a long career in the UK in MLS's early days. Caribbean players have made contributions around the league for years and, really, ONE Shalrie Joseph justifies turn over more than a few rocks looking for the next player like that!

He came through the NCAA but what if the next Darren Mattocks is out there waiting to be discovered as a 17 year old? I'm not gonna write off any region and obviously I don't want to only look in one spot but maybe there's a benefit to looking in different spots to where much of the rest of the league is when it comes to finding internationals.

Paul Mariner can't be something that he's not. He's not a Spanish speaker and maybe it's easier for him to maintain relationships in the islands than in Central America. His connections through he UK, where Caribbean players have been going for years, probably encourages that too. It's even worth noting that Toronto has a massive Caribbean community that might make it attractive for players to come here. We might laugh at the idea but there's a good chance Javi Morales is much happier culturally in Salt Lake City than he would be in Toronto. We're multi-cultural but we're REALLY multi-cultural! That's a lot different from the (non-coastal) southern and western U.S.!

[azorean19]

Is Pablo Vitti available? What about Jao Plata?

Don't think the team has ever neglected south or central america.

you say the team has never neglected south or central Americans, BUT let's face it, they have'nt exactly welcomed those same players either. 6 years of existence and to only have a token number of Central and South american players in a league that is teeming with them is not right. I could understand if what the club was doing was working , but it has'nt, it has not worked going on 6 years now ! why not scout the Latin american player? why not try and go the route that have made other teams successful in this league? I just see a reluctance on TFC's part to properly scout South/Central America.

[ag futbol]

Is Pablo Vitti available? What about Jao Plata?

Don't think the team has ever neglected south or central america.
I don't think either of those really add to our case. Johnston found Vitti after river plate came here on exhibition. Rective rather than pro-active. Plata though the super draft.. Same kind of idea.

While we have had south American players, we've had few difference makers and really no big impact guys. Don't think we are very effective with what we're doing.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I think the South / Central American point is valid. I also don't think TFC doesn't do a good job scouting local talent, as I think they're some CSL players capable of doing a job in the MLS. That said, I think we should take each transfer in and off itself, O'Dea has the potential to a very good MLS player, maybe even what TFC has been looking for in a CB.

[TFC07]

According to to Frankie Lalley - A sports journalist with the Irish Sun says Toronto FC is apparently signing Irish centre back Darren O'Dea.

https://twitter.com/FrankieLally/status/229614994579402752

https://twitter.com/FrankieLally

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_O'Dea

On paper, this looks like a great pick up. Hopefully this signing doesn't kill our cap.

[BHTC Mike]

I don't think either of those really add to our case. Johnston found Vitti after river plate came here on exhibition. Rective rather than pro-active. Plata though the super draft.. Same kind of idea.

While we have had south American players, we've had few difference makers and really no big impact guys. Don't think we are very effective with what we're doing.
TFC has kinda gingerly dipped their toes into the South American pool on a few occasions but, like you say, don't seem to have ever really made a huge commitment to the idea. Mo had his annual scouting trips and, really, the biggest investement - Vitti - was coming back from an unsuccessful spell in Europe, no? Other than that? There's Aceval and Caicedo and... How we've missed out on the Colombian invasion over the last three years I'm not quite sure.

Where they really can be criticized is Central America though. Other than Guevara we had what? Fat Ruiz for about a day and half? And both of them were well known and from inside the league before they arrived here. Have we ever signed a Central American who hadn't already played in MLS? Izaguirre is the only player that I can even remember us being linked with. That only happened after we played against Motagua in the Champions League and maybe if we'd known about him already we could have been quick enough to get there before Celtic.

That said, it's important not to lump every regime into one continuous narrative. Fundamentally, we had Mo Johnston building our team for four years and, after a brief interregnum, Aron Winter for the last year and a half. Yes, he was hired with Winter but this only became Paul Mariner's team two months ago. How he builds his own side remains to be seen. His Caribbean connections have been much discussed in this thread but, as I keep repeating, he's been around MLS long enough to see what's been successful elsewhere in terms of international acquisitions.

[MartinUtd]

I can live with O'Dea. Better ex Leeds lad than Bruce. Now lets line up Jermaine Beckford for when Koeverman's is retired (okay, I'll stop trying to turn us into Leeds now)

[Yohan]

and Felipe (brazil)at 21 !!! Who the fuck found that guy for Montreal? Give him a raise!!! Why can't TFC find players like that !
I think felipe was playing in swiss league. Same with saborio.

[narduch]

Mo had his annual scouting trips and, really, the biggest investement - Vitti .

As mentioned before, Vitti played against TFC in a friendly. He wasn't scouted in the classic sense. And all other latin players that joined TFC prior to this season had some kind of story that pointed to lazy scouting on the part of TFC.

The only real latin American players that TFC seemed to find on its own where Aceval and Ceicedo. And we all know how that turned out.

[Blizzard]

I can live with O'Dea. Better ex Leeds lad than Bruce. Now lets line up Jermaine Beckford for when Koeverman's is retired (okay, I'll stop trying to turn us into Leeds now)

I wonder what Peter Lorimer is up to right now. ;)

[MartinUtd]

You're showing your age, Blizzard. lol

[ag futbol]

I remember Johnston's scouting trips to South America, they were by all accounts, hilarious. What he should have been doing is going to meet with clubs to establish connections and make reciprocal agreements. He could have used those connections to establish a list of realistic targets and subsequently scouted / acquired them. A few clubs in MLS have these (if memory serves Dallas has one with CAM, LA has one with SPFC) and they are quite handy. Really this should be TFC's first step into the market.

We'll never know exactly what he was doing down there, but any time he opened his mouth about his trips he always made himself look like an idiot. I remember him droning on about watching Dentinho "the ideal designed player", a kid who was valued at over 10M dollars and on the radar of multiple top clubs in Europe. From all the other reports we got, he did nothing but watch Series A games between top clubs. Completely futile exercise without knowing the availability or cost of the players he was looking at.

So anyway, I think if TFC is still struggling in this market, they need to add someone to staff who can get them in. Not discounting our connections elsewhere, but again, it's too big of a market to ignore.

[khso11]

O'Dea, ok sign him, and don't fuck up this time FO!!!!

[Beach_Red]

I remember Johnston's scouting trips to South America, they were by all accounts, hilarious. What he should have been doing is going to meet with clubs to establish connections and make reciprocal agreements. He could have used those connections to establish a list of realistic targets and subsequently scouted / acquired them. A few clubs in MLS have these (if memory serves Dallas has one with CAM, LA has one with SPFC) and they are quite handy. Really this should be TFC's first step into the market.

We'll never know exactly what he was doing down there, but any time he opened his mouth about his trips he always made himself look like an idiot. I remember him droning on about watching Dentinho "the ideal designed player", a kid who was valued at over 10M dollars and on the radar of multiple top clubs in Europe. From all the other reports we got, he did nothing but watch Series A games between top clubs. Completely futile exercise without knowing the availability or cost of the players he was looking at.

So anyway, I think if TFC is still struggling in this market, they need to add someone to staff who can get them in. Not discounting our connections elsewhere, but again, it's too big of a market to ignore.

The fact that he was sent was the first real sign that MLSE wasn't serious about this team at all. No one who had any experience signing players was hired. It's been the biggest problem since day one with this eam and it's still the biggest problem.

[ManUtd4ever]

O'Dea could be a very solid addition to the backline if the report is accurate. A perfect example of the type of CB that can be acquired without a DP tag.

[reggie]

I wonder what Peter Lorimer is up to right now. ;)

yes...those were the days...playoffs,winning,bad turf..

[A Stick]

Didn't Peter Lorimer headbut one of his own players during a game at Varsity Stadium?

[Blizzard]

No it was somebody else. I remember the incident though. It was during a road game and wouldn't have been at Varsity even if was at home as the Blizzard played at the CNE from 79-83 (only moving to Varsity in 84). Lorimer was with the Blizzard in 79 and 80 before leaving on bad terms and spending two years with the Whitecaps.

[boozilla]

I wish the doors would revolve slower in this league.
MLS 's paternalism makes it hard to develop team personalities, rivalries, fan loyalty and grow a market.

[Abou Sky]

Exactly !!!!...Look at what Eckersley is costing us, I like the guy and he is a decent player BUT you can find equivalent talent for half the price in latin America.

Not a chance, it just isn't generally their style, IMO Ecks is a great value. He is tough as nails, hustles like crazy and is good on and off the ball (he hasn't been chasing much lately)

[__wowza]

I wish the doors would revolve slower in this league.
MLS 's paternalism makes it hard to develop team personalities, rivalries, fan loyalty and grow a market.

i agree, few clubs have been able to keep develop franchise players.
brian ching is probably the most well known example, fuck.. even their new stadium is known as "the house that ching built".

[maninb]

O'Dea..Really??? Great news if true!!!! An Irish int'l, young, and tough as nails!!! please please please....

[Red I]

O'Dea..Really??? Great news if true!!!! An Irish int'l, young, and tough as nails!!! please please please....

Huge improvement, left footed, and pretty decent distributor from what i've seen... but still not the General in the back the team needs. If they can bring another who fill that role along side of O'Dea, that would be massive.

[OfficeGuy]

I don't even see Aceval listed as a defender anymore - I had heard thru fans at BMO that he had told them he would be leaving in a few weeks.

[Phil]

I don't even see Aceval listed as a defender anymore - I had heard thru fans at BMO that he had told them he would be leaving in a few weeks.

He was officially released last week and gone back to a Chilean club.

[Abou Sky]

I am not holding my breath for a high quality CB this season anymore.

I just can't see it happen, players released on waiver that weren't picked up don't give you cap relief unless they are picked up by another club. (Can't believe Soolsma wasn't picked up)

We have 'depth' at the back, just no veteran to lead the troops.

Hate to say 'there is always next year' but seems like that is what we are going to have to do. Find a hard nosed CB with gobs of experience in the 28-32 age range so we keep him for a while, pay him whatever we need to and unfortunately... probably give up on DK because Hassli is more of a known quantity then finding someone else who may or may not work out (of course Hassli may not work out) and we have NO idea whether DK will be OK to play next year.

[maninb]

Huge improvement, left footed, and pretty decent distributor from what i've seen... but still not the General in the back the team needs. If they can bring another who fill that role along side of O'Dea, that would be massive.

I agree...but with O'Dea our back 4 improves 30-40%.....

[TOBOR !]

Darren O'Dea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darren_O%27Dea)


Darren O'Dea (pronounced dah-ren-oh-day) (born on 4 February 1987) is an Irish footballer who plays as a centre back. He is currently a free agent after his contract with Scottish Premier League club Celtic expired.

O'Dea started his career with Celtic and broke into the first team during the 2006–07 season. Since then he has won the Scottish Premier League twice, in 2006–07 and 2007–08. He has also won both the Scottish Cup, in 2008, and Scottish League Cup, 2009, once. He moved on a six-month loan to English Championship side Reading for the first-half of the 2009–10 season. But returned to play in the first-team and become temporary captain of the club for the second season. Since then he has not been a part of Celtic's first team and has been loaned out to Championship sides Ipswich Town and Leeds United for the 2010–11 and 2011–12 season respectively.

maybe ?

Kneel before me... gaze in awe upon the awesome prognosticator that is TOBOR !!!!!!

[Red I]

I agree...but with O'Dea our back 4 improves 30-40%.....

If by that you mean the back line will give up 30-40% less goals... wouldn't TFC be like the best back 4 in the league? If that's the case, the team won't need anyone else in the back!

[ensco]

I wonder what Peter Lorimer is up to right now. ;)

Or Bobby-Gol

[TOBOR !]

I'm quite interested to see what the Freddy Hall signing means. I think Kosic is more marketable than Frei these days (playing well, good price point). Maybe use Hall to cover until Frei gets back to match fitness and kiis Milos goodbye ?

[OgtheDim]

O'Dea would be good but I'd give it a 30% chance of happening.

[Red I]

O'Dea would be good but I'd give it a 30% chance of happening.

I think there's a 70% chance you're right

[KGH]

So let me se if I've got this right. We've said all year that we need a CB. Leading up to the transfer window everyone said we need a bossman CB. And we've done the following:

1) Traded JDG (MF) for Wideman (F)
2) Traded a pic for Amerikwa (F)
3) Released Aceval (D)
4) Released Soolsma (F)
5) Signed Hall (G)
6) Traded for Hassli (F)

SO...out of all of that we're actually down 1 D and 1 MF, but up 1 F and 1 G.

Yet still no CB.

Awesome.

[DaBandit]

You missed Plata being loaned out as well..

But your right NO CB!!!

[Auzzy]

I'm quite interested to see what the Freddy Hall signing means. I think Kosic is more marketable than Frei these days (playing well, good price point). Maybe use Hall to cover until Frei gets back to match fitness and kiis Milos goodbye ?

A number of MLS teams have three keepers. I think Roberts will be loaned out to a different team -- I guess Mariner said that in an interview today. When Frei is back, which will still take a while, then we will see. They may keep 3 for a while -- who knows how fit & reliable Frei will be at first. When are the contracts up for Kocic and Frei? Before then they will have to decide. If Frei is 100%, maybe trade one of them for other players we need. I don't think they will be making any decisions soon though.

[Richard]

A number of MLS teams have three keepers. I think Roberts will be loaned out to a different team -- I guess Mariner said that in an interview today. When Frei is back, which will still take a while, then we will see. They may keep 3 for a while -- who knows how fit & reliable Frei will be at first. When are the contracts up for Kocic and Frei? Before then they will have to decide. If Frei is 100%, maybe trade one of them for other players we need. I don't think they will be making any decisions soon though.

I think its 100% certain either Frei or Kosic is gone by next preseaon. Both are starting keepers in this league and my bet is they will resign Kosic to a longterm deal, he may be more inclined to stick with TFC than Frei who always had eyes for EU.

[v00d00daddy]

I think another player you can count on being moved out is Eric Avila. I like the guy a lot but it seems that Mariner doesn't.

When your team is down a goal and you have Avila on your bench...yet you turn to Maund instead....I think it's a pretty telilng sign that Avila is not favoured by the coach.

Hope I'm wrong.

[69Chevy396]

I think another player you can count on being moved out is Eric Avila. I like the guy a lot but it seems that Mariner doesn't.

When your team is down a goal and you have Avila on your bench...yet you turn to Maund instead....I think it's a pretty telilng sign that Avila is not favoured by the coach.

Hope I'm wrong.

I like Avila too, and he seems to be in the dog house, but this is mlse, this is TFC where incompetence, inexperience, hasty, short-sighted decisions permeate all levels of management. The team is playing slightly better now that Winter is gone, but they are still a last place club with a long way to go to obtain respectability. Yup, respect, something they have not had at any time since inception. They are the joke of MLS, I was speaking with some American friends who couldn't believe we would dump DeRO, then move Gordon (when I commented on this last year many here told me I was full of shit, but he is better than anybody we have now playing for a much better club) and others for virtually nothing in return. Does it surprise anybody that none of the trades with other mls teams have worked in our favour, not even one? Hopefully this will change with Hassili but I have my doubts. Oh wait, I think Gueverra was obtained in a trade, but alas, he was not good enough either......Avila in a few years will be a solid mls player, but most likely for another club.

[SoccMan]

You can almost put an MLS allstar team together if you consider the players this organization has let go and we wonder why they have been garbage since day one and we wonder why the stadium is almost half empty. I just can't wait for the season to end so I have no reason to attend games anymore. The only reason I do is because I renewed like a fool my season tickets for this season just like I did every season since year 1, but never again, I work too hard for every penny I make to just throw it away and give it to these fools!

[brad]

I think its 100% certain either Frei or Kosic is gone by next preseaon. Both are starting keepers in this league and my bet is they will resign Kosic to a longterm deal, he may be more inclined to stick with TFC than Frei who always had eyes for EU.

Would MLSE net any money from a sale of Frei? Something makes me think it's allocation plus money that must get reinvested in the club.

[brad]

O'Dea would be good but I'd give it a 30% chance of happening.

Darren O'Dear!

[DaBandit]

I think another player you can count on being moved out is Eric Avila. I like the guy a lot but it seems that Mariner doesn't.

When your team is down a goal and you have Avila on your bench...yet you turn to Maund instead....I think it's a pretty telilng sign that Avila is not favoured by the coach.

Hope I'm wrong.

I said this after the game, I think they are dangling him as trade bait for a CB. Probably not risking him getting hurt. Too bad I like him a lot as well.

[Pookie]

So let me se if I've got this right. We've said all year that we need a CB. Leading up to the transfer window everyone said we need a bossman CB. And we've done the following:

1) Traded JDG (MF) for Wideman (F)
2) Traded a pic for Amerikwa (F)
3) Released Aceval (D)
4) Released Soolsma (F)
5) Signed Hall (G)
6) Traded for Hassli (F)

SO...out of all of that we're actually down 1 D and 1 MF, but up 1 F and 1 G.

Yet still no CB.

Awesome.

And...

7) "Loaned" Plata (F)

Down 2 draft picks

[BayernTFC]

If I were to guess what happened with Mellberg, I'd say that TFC was probably relying on magical allocation to become available to make it fit. Since it wasn't in the best interest of MLS (as stated by Garber), they didn't make it available. TFC sees this as MLS preventing the deal, MLS sees it as TFC being unable to sign him because they don't have the cap space.
It's interesting to hear all the he said/she said, spin, and speculation. In the end, yours was a pretty good guess Ajax TFC:

http://www.fotbollskanalen.se/andra-ligor/inget-toronto-for-mellberg---finns-ingen-plats-for-svensken/


Nothing Toronto for Mellberg - is no place for Swede

Olof Mellberg was on his way to Toronto.
But now experiencing fotbollskanalen.se that the transition looks to crack.

Toronto wanted Olof Mellberg - and the Swedish center-back was keen on a move to Canada.

- Why should we not be interested in Mellberg? He is a fantastic player who made an incredible Championship, said the club's sporting director Paul Mariner to fotbollskanalen.se last week.

But now övegången out to crack. Fotbollskanalen.se experience that it depends on two things. For one thing MLS negative about the high salary that Toronto and Mellberg negotiated (all contracts must be approved by the league) and injured Striker Danny Koevermans which meant that the club was forced to recruit a new striker as his tedje Designated player.

Two weeks ago, in the 1-0 victory against New England, injured Danny Koevermans left knee so badly that he misses the rest of the season. Therefore forced Toronto to act quickly and acquire Vancouver's French striker Eric Hassli as a replacement. Thus he became the club's third Designated Player, and it means that the current situation is no place for Olof Mellberg on the team.

Team in MLS will have three so-called "Designated players", who may have higher salaries than 350 $ 000 (2 500 000 million) a year.

[TOBOR !]

so we could have landed Mellberg after all if we hadn't already moved for Hassli ?

It's like when you asked the prettiest girl to the dance a month beforehand in order to be the first. Of course, she'll wait to see if there are better offers so she'll put you off, but keep you dangling.

As the event nears, you panic and ask your neighbour to go, and she happily obliges... which is when the prettiest girl decides she will come with you after all.

Who hasn't had that happen to them ?

[Phil]

O'Dea would be good but I'd give it a 30% chance of happening.

He was at the game Saturday, saw him at gate 4 post game. By no means does that translate into a signing though.

[C.Ronaldo]

He was at the game Saturday, saw him at gate 4 post game. By no means does that translate into a signing though.

Wow, now MLSE has resorted to asking foreign footballers to fill the seats

[reggie]

Maybe we should let EARL and P M know that he is in town..:facepalm:

[ManUtd4ever]

so we could have landed Mellberg after all if we hadn't already moved for Hassli ?

It's like when you asked the prettiest girl to the dance a month beforehand in order to be the first. Of course, she'll wait to see if there are better offers so she'll put you off, but keep you dangling.

As the event nears, you panic and ask your neighbour to go, and she happily obliges... which is when the prettiest girl decides she will come with you after all.

Who hasn't had that happen to them ?

Interesting analogy, LOL.

In fairness to Mariner, once Koevs went down for the season, I think that a quality striker superceded our need for a CB, and he reacted accordingly. I'm not letting Mariner off the hook for failing to acquire a reliable CB to anchor the backline as of yet, I'm just stating that in light of the sudden change in circumstances, it was more prudent to utilize the available DP slot to acquire a striker as opposed to a CB.

[Phil]

Maybe we should let EARL and P M know that he is in town..:facepalm:

He walked out with Earl, so pretty sure he knows.

[TOBOR !]

Interesting analogy, LOL.

In fairness to Mariner, once Koevs went down for the season, I think that a quality striker superceded our need for a CB, and he reacted accordingly. I'm not letting Mariner off the hook for failing to acquire a reliable CB to anchor the backline as of yet, I'm just stating that in light of the sudden change in circumstances, it was more prudent to utilize the available DP slot to acquire a striker as opposed to a CB.

Right. Allow me to slighly modify my analogy :

as the date of the dance neared your parents informed you that, sadly, you would not be able to borrow the car as you had planned.

Since you had not heard from the prettiest girl, and assumed you were not likely to, you asked the girl next door to go, since she had both her driver's license and access to a car that night.

Dang... what could have been... if only... etc. The story of my life.

[West220Side]

He walked out with Earl, so pretty sure he knows.

You give Earl Cochrane far to much credit.
Earl was just asking him the go-train schedule, in which Darren O'Dea replied that he wasn't from Toronto and didn't know.
Earl shrugged, and walked away. Another battle lost.

[jazzy]

wife just saw Mariner....he told her he had just signed someone???but in her wisdom,...she had to rush back to work,......man,...wrong priorities,...so maybe he meant Hall or??.......will there be someone new? ODea??...sorry...I've obviously got to go re-evaluate the important things in life with her,....lol

[reggie]

4 days here and still not signed..wtf takes so long

[reggie]

wife just saw Mariner....he told her he had just signed someone???but in her wisdom,...she had to rush back to work,......man,...wrong priorities,...so maybe he meant Hall or??.......will there be someone new? ODea??...sorry...I've obviously got to go re-evaluate the important things in life with her,....lol

are you serious?

[jazzy]

Wrong thread but on phone and can't find proper one...van signs Andrew O'Brian..x~leeds u...? ....cb?....just on the fan 90...... Man....at least they're t taking this league seriously

[reggie]

remember the days that we were laughing at VAN city...who is laughing now.

[__wowza]

remember the days that we were laughing at VAN city...who is laughing now.

...our four voyagers cups?

[PopePouri]

You give Earl Cochrane far to much credit.
Earl was just asking him the go-train schedule, in which Darren O'Dea replied that he wasn't from Toronto and didn't know.
Earl shrugged, and walked away. Another battle lost.

Fuck this FO is incompetent!

[MartinUtd]

You give Earl Cochrane far to much credit.
Earl was just asking him the go-train schedule, in which Darren O'Dea replied that he wasn't from Toronto and didn't know.
Earl shrugged, and walked away. Another battle lost.

Jolly good LOL moment, thanks for that

[maninb]

the guy the Whitecaps just signed has played only 34 GAMES in the past 3 years in TOTAL...and he's 34....no thanks...

[Gazza]

remember the days that we were laughing at VAN city...who is laughing now.

I can't ear or see vancouver fans with 4 Voyageur Cups covering my heyes and hears.

[SirBobSaget]

These are the Incoming Roster Moves so far this season :

Jeremy Hall MLS Trade
Eric Hassli MLS Trade
Andrew Wiedeman MLS Trade
Quincy Amarikwa MLS Reject

Reggie Lambe Free Transfer Bermudan
Logan Emory Free Transfer from Puerto Rico
Freddy Hall Free Transfer Bermudan

(Not Counting Aceval / Caicedo)

Not much imagination there. Someone tell Mariner / Cochrane that there exists other soccer leagues outside MLS and the Caribbean.
Do they have any contacts outside MLS or Bermuda Soccer Federation?

[__wowza]

I can't ear or see vancouver fans with 4 Voyageur Cups covering my heyes and hears.

i'd rep for the roy quote, but i have to spread it around first LOL

[ManUtd4ever]

I can't ear or see vancouver fans with 4 Voyageur Cups covering my heyes and hears.

LOL, that's even better than St. Patrick's quote.

[T-boy]

With all the movment at the Whitecaps, makes me wonder if we are lining up a defender from them. Only De Merit would be useful, IMO.

[ag futbol]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't quite understand this whitecaps roster makeover.

[OgtheDim]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't quite understand this whitecaps roster makeover.

Roster Move Addiction :crazy:

[denime]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't quite understand this whitecaps roster makeover.

What I don't understand is why PM and EC are signing only Rejects from MLS and around the world,why?

[jazzy]

...our four voyagers cups?
all and all great but that doesn't help our future or present.....from what I am seeing now,...is not the least entertaining,.....at least they have a plan

[reggie]

I can't ear or see vancouver fans with 4 Voyageur Cups covering my heyes and hears.

good one...i still rather have the Van roster..

[Yohan]

all and all great but that doesn't help our future or present.....from what I am seeing now,...is not the least entertaining,.....at least they have a planif it was mariner signing all those scottish players, people would be screaming bloody murder something hoofball rant lol

[ArmenJBX]

During tonight's Post-Game press conference, John Molinaro asked about the possibility of another centerback coming in.

Paul Mariner replied that a deal was close, about 48 hours away, and that the player (who he would not name) would not be available for Saturday.

[khso11]

During tonight's Post-Game press conference, John Molinaro asked about the possibility of another centerback coming in.

Paul Mariner replied that a deal was close, about 48 hours away, and that the player (who he would not name) would not be available for Saturday.

Wait, this is suppose to be a joke right?

[brad]

CB is probably Darren O'Dear

[maninb]

I'd take O'Dea in a heartbeat...He's young, healthy, big, tough as nails, a leftie, and an Irish Int'l....Sounds like he's got more upside than Eckersley...

[Nuvinho]

I am greedy, I want to see 2 CBs come in.

Now that Williams and Harden are healthy, they could be moved out.

[reggie]

what happend to the marco rossi guy?

[KGH]

I am greedy, I want to see 2 CBs come in.

Now that Williams and Harden are healthy, they could be moved out.

Why ship out Williams? He's only a $50k cap hit and we have open roster spots.

Harden we can only trade. Who's going to pick him up?

At this point we're basically stuck with the roster we have. (Pending new signing obviously)

[ManUtd4ever]

if it was mariner signing all those scottish players, people would be screaming bloody murder something hoofball rant lol

QFT!

Some of the Southsiders aren't too pleased either.

[reggie]

During tonight's Post-Game press conference, John Molinaro asked about the possibility of another centerback coming in.

Paul Mariner replied that a deal was close, about 48 hours away, and that the player (who he would not name) would not be available for Saturday.
why does it take so long to close a deal,are they waiting for his dental records to confirm its him..jeezzz

[Phil]

Pretty sure I spotted O'Dea in the press box last night. Zoom cameras are handy!

[T-boy]

why does it take so long to close a deal,are they waiting for his dental records to confirm its him..jeezzz

Same old MLS BS probably - he needs to sign a contract with the league, they need to give approval, international clearance blah blah. Signing a new player into the MLS is like getting your ass signed by the president!

[Super]

QFT!

Some of the Southsiders aren't too pleased either.

Still on track to make the play-offs. We'd be over the moon to be in their shoes right now.

[ManUtd4ever]

Still on track to make the play-offs. We'd be over the moon to be in their shoes right now.

I don't dispute that, I'm just stating the way it is.

Interestingly enough, Vancouver had a better record prior to the recent overhaul of their lineup, and their terrific start is the main reason they are in the playoff hunt. Furthermore, they now have one of the oldest starting lineups in MLS.

[pekduck]

Same old MLS BS probably - he needs to sign a contract with the league, they need to give approval, international clearance blah blah. Signing a new player into the MLS is like getting your ass signed by the president!

if it was Clinton, it may be easier than you think...

wait.. i digress....

carry on... waiting of the news of official signing

[Super]

I don't dispute that, I'm just stating the way it is.

Interestingly enough, Vancouver had a better record prior to the recent overhaul of their lineup, and their terrific start is the main reason they are in the playoff hunt. Furthermore, they now have one of the oldest starting lineups in MLS.

Yes, you are definitely right about that. Just depresses me that our season has been such a horrible nightmare compared to Vancouver and Montreal.

[ManUtd4ever]

Yes, you are definitely right about that. Just depresses me that our season has been such a horrible nightmare compared to Vancouver and Montreal.

Don't despair, we are still the undisputed best team in Canada. g:D

[brad]

Why ship out Williams? He's only a $50k cap hit and we have open roster spots.

Harden we can only trade. Who's going to pick him up?

At this point we're basically stuck with the roster we have. (Pending new signing obviously)

I could see someone taking him - cheap backup. I wouldn't expect much beyond a useless draft pick for him though.

[Yohan]

I could see someone taking him - cheap backup. I wouldn't expect much beyond a useless draft pick for him though.
Harden is apparently at 90k contract...

[moralis]

It seems former TFC defender Nana Attakora is training with the Vancouver Whitecaps:

https://twitter.com/WhitecapsFC/status/231082949502705664

[ArmenJBX]

Wait, this is suppose to be a joke right?

Nope, not a joke. It should be up on the TFC website!


why does it take so long to close a deal,are they waiting for his dental records to confirm its him..jeezzz

Pretty much LOL :D It's just paperwork at this point.


Pretty sure I spotted O'Dea in the press box last night. Zoom cameras are handy!

I was in the first row, didn't see him. If he was there, I must have missed him. He was at Gate 4 the last game though.

[brad]

Harden is apparently at 90k contract...

You know more about this stuff that I do - do you think that is fair for a back defender in the MLS?

[Super]

Harden is apparently at 90k contract...

I do believe he was at $60k the first year. He must have had a salary bump promise in his contract.

[moralis]

Possible news coming through about signing and or signings:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) Paul Mariner to me: Just waiting for the release to go out on defensive signing. Fans will be pleased ... #TFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC)

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/231138122648387584

And this one is strange:

Pete O'Rourke ‏@SkySportsPeteO (https://twitter.com/SkySportsPeteO)
Sky Sports understands former Bolton defender Paul Robinson is in talks to join MLS team Toronto FC. #BWFC

https://twitter.com/SkySportsPeteO/status/231138830227501057 (https://twitter.com/search/%23BWFC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robinson_%28footballer_born_December_1978%29

[ArmenJBX]

Story's got legs:

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/7958778/

[Yohan]

Cue something about hoofball and EPL reject? Lol

[gracos]

does anyone know anything about this player, and if he could be an aid for our team, am trying to stay away from judgment before he plays for us if it becomes official,

[Red Skies At Night]

from what I've seen of him he's a pretty reliable and experienced pro. he's strong in the air, good in the tackle. he's not the fastest, but he's positionally sound. I think he could be just the 'bossman' PM has been looking for. however, he's also getting on, and I'm not sure how his fitness levels are... if he can stay healthy I think he'll be a big help... but he could also turn in to the poster boy for washed up epl reject (but somehow I doubt that'll happen)

also add to that the report from the Herald newspaper in Ireland that O'Dea is "mulling over" an offer from TFC and we could be seeing a whole different pairing at the heart of defence... do we have to move anyone out to make these moves happen?

[Detroit_TFC]

Going to be one or the other.

[West220Side]

Possible news coming through about signing and or signings:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) Paul Mariner to me: Just waiting for the release to go out on defensive signing. Fans will be pleased ... #TFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23TFC)

https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN/status/231138122648387584

And this one is strange:

Pete O'Rourke ‏@SkySportsPeteO (https://twitter.com/SkySportsPeteO)
Sky Sports understands former Bolton defender Paul Robinson is in talks to join MLS team Toronto FC. #BWFC

(https://twitter.com/search/%23BWFC)https://twitter.com/SkySportsPeteO/status/231138830227501057

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robinson_(footballer_born_December_1978) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robinson_%28footballer_born_December_1978%29)


Sounds like another Aceval with a better resume.
Left back that we play out of position, old & slow.
I would value Darren O'dea far above him, unless its both, I would much more prefer O'dea.

[gracos]

Kurtis Larson‏@KurtLarSUN7m (http://redpatchboys.ca/KurtLarSUN/status/231162939002994688) I highly doubt Robinson is the signing. #TFC (http://redpatchboys.ca/search/%23TFC)

I found this tweet to be interesting, O'Dea??

[Greatest Ripoff]

Sounds like another Aceval with a better resume.
Left back that we play out of position, old & slow.
I would value Darren O'dea far above him, unless its both, I would much more prefer O'dea.

You would prefer someone who was given the nickname "Darren O'Dear" by his fans? I wonder how many cards he would pick up in the CCL? I fear he would be the new Andy Iro.

[PopePouri]

You would prefer someone who was given the nickname "Darren O'Dear" by his fans? I wonder how many cards he would pick up in the CCL? I fear he would be the new Andy Iro.

You should stop reading Duane. He was a starter in the Championship which is something Iro wished he could do.

[Greatest Ripoff]

You should stop reading Duane. He was a starter in the Championship which is something Iro wished he could do.

Reading who? He played on poor Leeds side last year and picked up a ton of cards. I support a team in the Championship and saw a few of his matches on TV. He wasn't very good. Good CBs are in high demand and there is a reason a 25 year old CB from Ireland would be coming to MLS.

[Derko]

I'm going back to my X-Box and sign a CB, can anyone of you guy's out there make any suggestions for me?

Thanks

Signed Earl C.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

I would value Darren O'dea far above him, unless its both, I would much more prefer O'dea.

Tie-breaker: As always, it's WAGs FTW, and I don't even need to see Robinson's WAG to know who wins.

O'Dea's girlfriend:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00572/SNA0546CC-580_572898a.jpg

[ManUtd4ever]

I guess we'll find out tonight...



Kurtis Larson‏@KurtLarSUN
Tomorrow's Sun tonight: Check http://torontosun.com (http://t.co/EaB6SYsz) later tonight for a piece on TFC's signing & exclusive details concerning Mellberg.

[Richard]

I guess we'll find out tonight...

Hopefully we will know the truth about the Melberg situation.

[Abou Sky]

Right. Allow me to slighly modify my analogy :

as the date of the dance neared your parents informed you that, sadly, you would not be able to borrow the car as you had planned.

Since you had not heard from the prettiest girl, and assumed you were not likely to, you asked the girl next door to go, since she had both her driver's license and access to a car that night.

Dang... what could have been... if only... etc. The story of my life.

As long as you shagged her in the end who cares?

[[NBF]]

I wouldnt mind having Paul Robinson and Olof Mellberg that would be a fix right there. It really is sad that TFC can't move a guy like Ty Harden who is just taking up space.

[Super]

;1518259']I wouldnt mind having Paul Robinson and Olof Mellberg that would be a fix right there. It really is sad that TFC can't move a guy like Ty Harden who is just taking up space.

It is a shame, but it's part of the way the MLS works. I bet every team will have a few players that just sit there collecting way too much salary, but won't actually play any games.

[brad]

You should stop reading Duane. He was a starter in the Championship which is something Iro wished he could do.

Not just Duane. I asked some friends that are rabid Celtic supporters and they all said he is shit. Basically - said that Celtics defence are really bad, but he couldn't crack the line up. Managers had no faith in him as he was prone to stupid mistakes.

That said - if he comes, I'll wait to see him play before I assume the worst.

[69Chevy396]

Tie-breaker: As always, it's WAGs FTW, and I don't even need to see Robinson's WAG to know who wins.

O'Dea's girlfriend:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00572/SNA0546CC-580_572898a.jpg
She looks like the babe who gave me a $200 massage at some second floor milf
spa on Yonge street

[GuelphStorm2007]

I am very interested in the whole Mellberg affair

[gracos]

I would find it funny if Kurtis Larson writes an article in the Sun, and we dont sign any new players

[bman27]

As someone who followed what O'Dea did last year with Leeds, I'd prefer Robinson FWIW, O'Dea is no leader

[19Barrett19]

The article is up
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/02/tfc-set-to-sign-experienced-defender

[khso11]

“Just waiting for the release to go out,” Mariner said. “I think people will be very, very impressed with the signing.”

If it's O'Dea, I dont think many people would be that impress, but if it's him, then I hope he will contribute alot for our defence.

[BayernTFC]

And he could be joined in the MLS by current international Darren O'Dea, who is mulling over an offer from Toronto FC.

Dubliner O'Dea could also be on the move as he's held talks with Toronto -- who, like the Whitecaps, are based in Canada but play in the MLS -- since his exit from Celtic.
http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/odea-mulls-over-following-obrien-to-the-mls-3188307.html

[TOBOR !]

Here's an interesting quote about O'Dea :


I've always felt he needs someone alongside him to organise the defence, and from Mariner's previous comments he's looking for the organiser. O'Dea isn't the organiser Mariner is looking for.

Can he be useful alongside Adrian ?

I suppose we'll soon see. Twitter has me convinced that this is a done deal - just waiting for the official announcement now, aren't we ?

[ManUtd4ever]

It sounds like O'Dea is pretty much a done deal. Now I assume something has to give with our plethora of CBs on the roster, and we need depth at midfield.

[Super]

With all due respect, O'Dea is not even remotely close to being a player equal, or even close, to Mellberg. Mariner sure knows how to big up his players - like Weedman being the greatest finisher in the MLS. Disappointing, but hopefully O'Dea will be an improvement and not another Aceval.

[maninb]

Reading who? He played on poor Leeds side last year and picked up a ton of cards. I support a team in the Championship and saw a few of his matches on TV. He wasn't very good. Good CBs are in high demand and there is a reason a 25 year old CB from Ireland would be coming to MLS.

Yeah a CB for the Irish Int'l team must be CRAP??? Really? I'll take him over most of the CBs in MLS...

[Phil]

With all due respect, O'Dea is not even remotely close to being a player equal, or even close, to Mellberg. Mariner sure knows how to big up his players - like Weedman being the greatest finisher in the MLS. Disappointing, but hopefully O'Dea will be an improvement and not another Aceval.

Agreed, a 6.5 foot tall CB that has a ton of international play under his belt vs. a younger CB, its not the same.

On the upside, he is younger and may be willing to grow and commit to the team. I will wait to see his play but it does concern me that Leeds passed as did a lot of teams in Europe on this guy.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Yeah a CB for the Irish Int'l team must be CRAP??? Really? I'll take him over most of the CBs in MLS...

Who had zero appearances for a very poor Ireland this summer. I am just going off what I saw from his play with Leeds. If you have seen him play and think he is good, that is ok. Only time will tell how well he can play here.

[Super]

Agreed, a 6.5 foot tall CB that has a ton of international play under his belt vs. a younger CB, its not the same.

On the upside, he is younger and may be willing to grow and commit to the team. I will wait to see his play but it does concern me that Leeds passed as did a lot of teams in Europe on this guy.

I honestly just think it's extremely insulting of Mariner to equal O'Dea(r) with Mellberg. As if we're a bunch of idiots who can't tell the difference? Or even worse, Mariner can't tell the difference? It's like comparing a BMW with a Toyota Corola. Would you trust a car salesman who says they're the same? I've been pretty happy with Mariner so far, but this just disappoints me.

[Super]

Senior career*


Years
Team
Apps†
(Gls)†


2006–2012
Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)
49
(4)


2009
→ Reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_F.C.) (loan)
8
(0)


2010–2011
→ Ipswich Town (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich_Town_F.C.) (loan)
20
(0)


2011–2012
→ Leeds United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United) (loan)
35
(2)


National team‡


?-2007
Republic of Ireland U19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team)
?
(?)


2007–2008
Republic of Ireland U21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_under-21_national_football_team)
10
(1)


2009–
Republic of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team)
14
(0)



vs. Mellberg



Senior career*


Years
Team
Apps†
(Gls)†


1996–1997
Degerfors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degerfors_IF)
47
(0)


1998
AIK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIK_Solna)
17
(0)


1998–2001
Racing Santander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_Santander)
98
(0)


2001–2008
Aston Villa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Villa_F.C.)
232
(8)


2008–2009
Juventus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_F.C.)
27
(2)


2009–2012
Olympiacos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympiacos_F.C.)
71
(7)


National team‡


1996–1999
Sweden U21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_national_under-21_football_team)
26
(0)


2000–2012
Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_national_football_team)
117
(8)




Oh yeah, EQUAL. Good joke, Mariner!

[billyfly]

Mariner is a salesman and I ain't buyin'.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Also, if O'dea is the experienced international, how many starts does he have out of his 14 appearances for Ireland and when was the time he actually played for them?

[yellowfellow]

If you read the article carefully, the equal statement was said by Cochrane.

[Canary10]

Yeah a CB for the Irish Int'l team must be CRAP??? Really? I'll take him over most of the CBs in MLS...

Well, the Championship is still a higher level than MLS, so he should be able to play here. But to say you'd take him over most CBs in MLS? I'll just point out that a number of MLS CBs are making the jump to the Premiership.

[Super]

I want to say that we certainly should make O'Dea feel VERY welcome at the club - I still think he may be able to help improve our defense. I'm just angry with Mariner for making a promise that he didn't keep. No way in hell is O'Dea even close to equal to a guy like Mellberg. It's not even a matter of perspective. They're LEAGUES apart. Literally. Last I heard Mellberg was being courted by Everton while O'Dea couldn't find a Championship club interested in him.

[Derko]

Senior career*



Years

Team

Apps†

(Gls)†



2006–2012

Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)

49

(4)



2009

→ Reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_F.C.) (loan)

8

(0)



2010–2011

→ Ipswich Town (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipswich_Town_F.C.) (loan)

20

(0)



2011–2012

→ Leeds United (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United) (loan)

35

(2)



National team‡



?-2007

Republic of Ireland U19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team)

?

(?)



2007–2008

Republic of Ireland U21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_under-21_national_football_team)

10

(1)



2009–

Republic of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team)

14

(0)




vs. Mellberg



Senior career*



Years

Team

Apps†

(Gls)†



1996–1997

Degerfors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degerfors_IF)

47

(0)



1998

AIK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIK_Solna)

17

(0)



1998–2001

Racing Santander (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_Santander)

98

(0)



2001–2008

Aston Villa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Villa_F.C.)

232

(8)



2008–2009

Juventus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_F.C.)

27

(2)



2009–2012

Olympiacos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympiacos_F.C.)

71

(7)



National team‡



1996–1999

Sweden U21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_national_under-21_football_team)

26

(0)



2000–2012

Sweden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_national_football_team)

117

(8)




Oh yeah, EQUAL. Good joke, Mariner!

If you are looking at goals, Mellberg isn't so good, average looks about 1 per year, (are CB's really supposed to score a ton of goals?), now I know that Olaf Mellberg is an excellent CB and would have been a fantastic signing (whatever the circumstances, I prefer to believe the MLS killed that one),time will tell, if the lad improves our defence great.

[Gazza]

The MLSE spin job is tiresome. But O'Dea is a young, capable cb for this league and is exactly what we need without a dp price tag. He's no Melberg, but that ship has sailed now and it's time to move on. Hopefully we give the guy a warm welcome. He's coming here for a new lease on his football career, hopefully he can find a home here.

[Abou Sky]

IMO O'Dea will be a good addition, although is NOT the stud bossman CB we need.

Hopefully he is simply phase 1 of the plan and not the entire plan.

I am also thinking he will be coming here as a cap players not a DP which means we aren't tying up a DP slot.

Next year is uncertain, I hope that DK is well enough to train with the boys before next season but we have to also figure that he may not be and if he isn't, we need to cut him loose.

I love him, but I also loved a lot of employees whom I have laid off over the past 4 years.

[T-boy]

The MLSE spin job is tiresome. But O'Dea is a young, capable cb for this league and is exactly what we need without a dp price tag. He's no Melberg, but that ship has sailed now and it's time to move on. Hopefully we give the guy a warm welcome. He's coming here for a new lease on his football career, hopefully he can find a home here.

Agreed. My first choice would be an experienced CB, Mellberg, Scharner.

If we can't get somebody like that, a younger CB with international experience would also be a great addition. O'Dea fits that nicely. Celtic offered him a new contract this season, which he turned down, so that's definitely positive. The clearly rated him.

[Richard]

Lets not be quick to judge. Ecks came here as an out of favour/ poor form from the championship,L2. He ended up being one of our best players, this year his form has dropped but he is playing out of position, otherwise he is if not the best RB in the league. This may be what O'dea needs, start with a fresh slate in another continent.

[Pookie]

IMOI am also thinking he will be coming here as a cap players not a DP which means we aren't tying up a DP slot.

Next year is uncertain, I hope that DK is well enough to train with the boys before next season but we have to also figure that he may not be and if he isn't, we need to cut him loose.



The point is a valid one and the more I think about it, the more I scratch my head on it.

Pre-Hassli Situation

2 DPs under Contract (Frings, Koevermans)
1 available slot

Decision - Use it on Hassli or Mellberg?

If DK isn't healthy, Hassli is a decent replacement assuming we are shelving the idea of a 4-3-3 for the 2013 season. DK gets released and the DP slot becomes available to sign a CB. However, given our calendar relative to the international one, it is most likely we begin the season without a DP CB

If DK is healthy, Hassli becomes gravy. If you don't resign Hassli, you gave up a 1st round pick to get him. Making this one of the worst deals ever to acquire a rental striker in a season with no hope. It also cost you the opportunity to sign Mellberg. Like the above scenario, you likely play half the season without an opportunity to sign a DP CB.


The decision to make was keep your first round pick, sign Mellberg. Shore up the achillies heel of the team. So what if the team doesn't have a striker this season? Is there a position worse than our current last place position? Is Hassli going to help us beat Santos and win the CCL pool? Koevermans may return in 2013 and if he doesn't, pick one up on the market.... including Hassli who would have been out of contract.

Waiting it out could have resulted in Hassli AND Mellberg in Red to start the 2013 season. Instead, we have Hassli and have lost Mellberg and a 1st round pick.

But no, Mariner isn't making "panic" moves. Not at all. :facepalm:

[Super]

Lets not be quick to judge. Ecks came here as an out of favour/ poor form from the championship,L2. He ended up being one of our best players, this year his form has dropped but he is playing out of position, otherwise he is if not the best RB in the league. This may be what O'dea needs, start with a fresh slate in another continent.

The reason why many of us are disappointed is that this is yet another broken promise from TFC. When we're told that they're getting ready to announce a big signing, someone equal to Mellberg, then the bar is set pretty high. O'Dea will help us, I'm pretty confident in that, but he's no where near the skill and experience that a player equal to Mellberg would have brought us. So we were duped by TFC once again. Either that or they don't know the difference between Mellberg and O'Dea which concerns me even more.

[brad]

We also made Ecks one of, if not the highest paid defenders in the league to keep him and he's just not worth that $$ here. I hope they aren't doing the same with O'Dea.

[mastermixer]

The point is a valid one and the more I think about it, the more I scratch my head on it.

Pre-Hassli Situation

2 DPs under Contract (Frings, Koevermans)
1 available slot

Decision - Use it on Hassli or Mellberg?

If DK isn't healthy, Hassli is a decent replacement assuming we are shelving the idea of a 4-3-3 for the 2013 season. DK gets released and the DP slot becomes available to sign a CB. However, given our calendar relative to the international one, it is most likely we begin the season without a DP CB

If DK is healthy, Hassli becomes gravy. If you don't resign Hassli, you gave up a 1st round pick to get him. Making this one of the worst deals ever to acquire a rental striker in a season with no hope. It also cost you the opportunity to sign Mellberg. Like the above scenario, you likely play half the season without an opportunity to sign a DP CB.


The decision to make was keep your first round pick, sign Mellberg. Shore up the achillies heel of the team. So what if the team doesn't have a striker this season? Is there a position worse than our current last place position? Is Hassli going to help us beat Santos and win the CCL pool? Koevermans may return in 2013 and if he doesn't, pick one up on the market.... including Hassli who would have been out of contract.

Waiting it out could have resulted in Hassli AND Mellberg in Red to start the 2013 season. Instead, we have Hassli and have lost Mellberg and a 1st round pick.

But no, Mariner isn't making "panic" moves. Not at all. :facepalm:

By signing Hassli Mariner is making "I just want to win a few more games this year to keep my job" moves, instead of signing a longer term investment like Mellberg.

[Whoop]

The point is a valid one and the more I think about it, the more I scratch my head on it.

Pre-Hassli Situation

2 DPs under Contract (Frings, Koevermans)
1 available slot

Decision - Use it on Hassli or Mellberg?

If DK isn't healthy, Hassli is a decent replacement assuming we are shelving the idea of a 4-3-3 for the 2013 season. DK gets released and the DP slot becomes available to sign a CB. However, given our calendar relative to the international one, it is most likely we begin the season without a DP CB

If DK is healthy, Hassli becomes gravy. If you don't resign Hassli, you gave up a 1st round pick to get him. Making this one of the worst deals ever to acquire a rental striker in a season with no hope. It also cost you the opportunity to sign Mellberg. Like the above scenario, you likely play half the season without an opportunity to sign a DP CB.


The decision to make was keep your first round pick, sign Mellberg. Shore up the achillies heel of the team. So what if the team doesn't have a striker this season? Is there a position worse than our current last place position? Is Hassli going to help us beat Santos and win the CCL pool? Koevermans may return in 2013 and if he doesn't, pick one up on the market.... including Hassli who would have been out of contract.

Waiting it out could have resulted in Hassli AND Mellberg in Red to start the 2013 season. Instead, we have Hassli and have lost Mellberg and a 1st round pick.

But no, Mariner isn't making "panic" moves. Not at all. :facepalm:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpf2ugCslE1qavqqoo1_500.gif

[ManUtd4ever]

The MLSE spin job is tiresome. But O'Dea is a young, capable cb for this league and is exactly what we need without a dp price tag. He's no Melberg, but that ship has sailed now and it's time to move on. Hopefully we give the guy a warm welcome. He's coming here for a new lease on his football career, hopefully he can find a home here.

This. And for the record, as yellowfellow mentioned, Mariner never stated that O'Dea was the equivalent of Mellberg.

[Ultra & Proud]

Lets not be quick to judge. Ecks came here as an out of favour/ poor form from the championship,L2. He ended up being one of our best players, this year his form has dropped but he is playing out of position, otherwise he is if not the best RB in the league. This may be what O'dea needs, start with a fresh slate in another continent.
Eckersley is in no way the best RB in MLS.

I personally like what he is showing this time around at CB. Last year not so much but now he looks a bit more solid. His coverage wide when at RB was often atrocious and he always, always, always, drifted far too inside and gave up a ton of space to opposition wingers. He rarely challenged crosses as he played too far off his man and his own crosses were not the greatest. That being said he has heart and plays hard but he has a ways to go before being considered the best at any position in this league.

[T-boy]

Eckersley is in no way the best RB in MLS.

I personally like what he is showing this time around at CB. Last year not so much but now he looks a bit more solid. His coverage wide when at RB was often atrocious and he always, always, always, drifted far too inside and gave up a ton of space to opposition wingers. He rarely challenged crosses as he played too far off his man and his own crosses were not the greatest. That being said he has heart and plays hard but he has a ways to go before being considered the best at any position in this league.

Judging players by their form under Winter's system (or under Winter persay) is not a good idea. I'd like to see Ecks play under Mariner and see how much better he looks playing a simpler system. Ecks direct footballing style really suites a more physical, direct footballing team.

I still say he's one of the best FB's in the MLS, I have no doubt.

[ManUtd4ever]

The point is a valid one and the more I think about it, the more I scratch my head on it.

Pre-Hassli Situation

2 DPs under Contract (Frings, Koevermans)
1 available slot

Decision - Use it on Hassli or Mellberg?

If DK isn't healthy, Hassli is a decent replacement assuming we are shelving the idea of a 4-3-3 for the 2013 season. DK gets released and the DP slot becomes available to sign a CB. However, given our calendar relative to the international one, it is most likely we begin the season without a DP CB

If DK is healthy, Hassli becomes gravy. If you don't resign Hassli, you gave up a 1st round pick to get him. Making this one of the worst deals ever to acquire a rental striker in a season with no hope. It also cost you the opportunity to sign Mellberg. Like the above scenario, you likely play half the season without an opportunity to sign a DP CB.


The decision to make was keep your first round pick, sign Mellberg. Shore up the achillies heel of the team. So what if the team doesn't have a striker this season? Is there a position worse than our current last place position? Is Hassli going to help us beat Santos and win the CCL pool? Koevermans may return in 2013 and if he doesn't, pick one up on the market.... including Hassli who would have been out of contract.

Waiting it out could have resulted in Hassli AND Mellberg in Red to start the 2013 season. Instead, we have Hassli and have lost Mellberg and a 1st round pick.

But no, Mariner isn't making "panic" moves. Not at all. :facepalm:

Once again, your opinion is stated as if TFC had nothing to play for this season. If the CCL means nothing to you, and you think it's a foregone conclusion that TFC should have just thrown in the towel, speak for yourself.

Once Koevs went down for the season, priorities shifted, and justifiably so. A central striker became our most urgent need ahead of a CB, especially at the cost of utilizing a DP slot. I think that under the circumstances, Mariner definitely made the right call.

As for the value of the 2014 first round pick, well as you know, that will be determined based on the play of the club next season. If TFC maintains their current pace under Mariner for the entire season next year, it would end up being a negligible pick at best.

[Ultra & Proud]

Okay so let me get this straight. Mariner acquired Hassli for a 1st rounder because he wants to save this season and his job and Hassli has 1/2 + 1 season option on his contract. He will most likely stick for the 1.5 years unless he turns bust. So that was nothing more than a short term move to save Mariners job and shut up supporters because it doesn't set us up for the future.

But in the case that we would have signed Mellberg, who is three years older than Hassli, for an equal 1.5 years contract, was helping us in the future? Or would it be the same thing people are whining about Mariner doing with Hassli? Shutting up internet supporters by getting a short term CB?

He may not be equal but if everyone is on about the future then I'd rather have a 25 year old with international experience who may stick here for 3-5 years than a stop gap replacement to keep fans happy this year and next.

[T-boy]

Once again, your opinion is stated as if TFC had nothing to play for this season. If the CCL means nothing to you, and you think it's a foregone conclusion that TFC should have just thrown in the towel, speak for yourself.

Once Koevs went down for the season, priorities shifted, and justifiably so. A central striker became our most urgent need ahead of a CB, especially at the cost of utilizing a DP slot. I think that under the circumstances, Mariner definitely made the right call.

As for the value of the 2014 first round pick, well as you know, that will be determined based on the play of the club next season. If TFC maintains their current pace under Mariner for the entire season next year, it would end up being a negligible pick at best.

Plus it was a 2014 pick, not 2013 - there is lots and lots of time to pick up another draft selection for 2014 with all the trades that happen in the mls. We still have our natural selection pick in 2013, which will be quite a high pick I'd imagine.

[Ultra & Proud]

Judging players by their form under Winter's system (or under Winter persay) is not a good idea. I'd like to see Ecks play under Mariner and see how much better he looks playing a simpler system. Ecks direct footballing style really suites a more physical, direct footballing team.

I still say he's one of the best FB's in the MLS, I have no doubt.

He doesn't play FB in Mariner's system so it's hard to judge how effective he would be at RB in that case. He looks better at CB in Mariner's system than Winter's though. 100% better.

[Canary10]

Once again, your opinion is stated as if TFC had nothing to play for this season. If the CCL means nothing to you, and you think it's a foregone conclusion that TFC should have just thrown in the towel, speak for yourself.

Once Koevs went down for the season, priorities shifted, and justifiably so. A central striker became our most urgent need ahead of a CB, especially at the cost of utilizing a DP slot. I think that under the circumstances, Mariner definitely made the right call.

As for the value of the 2014 first round pick, well as you know, that will be determined based on the play of the club next season. If TFC maintains their current pace under Mariner for the entire season next year, it would end up being a negligible pick at best.

if we continue the pace, we'd be 7th in the eastern conference. Still not a bad pick.

[ArmenJBX]

Toronto FC announce they have signed Irish international Darren O'Dea.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/08/tfc-sign-defender-darren-o’dea

[T-boy]

Excellent signing - good age and plenty of growth still. I didn't realise he was in the Euro squad! Looking forward to seeing him here!

[ManUtd4ever]

if we continue the pace, we'd be 7th in the eastern conference. Still not a bad pick.

Mariner's record thus far is 4W-3L-4D in MLS. For the sake of argument, if TFC played at that pace for an entire season they would finish with a record in the range of 12W-9L-13D. Approximately 49 points would rank us much higher than 7th in the eastern conference in a typical MLS season. It would actually rank us among the top teams in the league.

[T-boy]

Mariner's record thus far is 4W-3L-4D in MLS. For the sake of argument, if TFC played at that pace for an entire season they would finish with a record in the range of 12W-9L-13D. Approximately 49 points would rank us much higher than 7th in the eastern conference in a typical MLS season.

so that would give us a first round pick HIGHER than 10th in 2014, correct? And as we know - picks after 5 after a huge gamble. So, we've swapped Hassli for a big of nuts and bolts, really! I'd call that a good deal for us! IF Mariner had exahcned a 2013 pick, I'd be pissed off - but a 2014 pick is a good deal for us, IMO.

[Whoop]

This. And for the record, as yellowfellow mentioned, Mariner never stated that O'Dea was the equivalent of Mellberg.

No, but his lackey Cochrane did.



“Just waiting for the release to go out,” Mariner said. “I think people will be very, very impressed with the signing.”Although the name of the player wasn’t disclosed, multiple British outlets have reported that Toronto has reached out to number of European defenders, including Irish international Darren O’Dea, 25.While the club has been tight-lipped in terms of releasing the names of its summer targets, a description provided by team executive Earl Cochrane will continue to build expectations.“We locked up a player we like equally (to Mellberg), a guy with international experience, a leader, a competitor,” he said.

By saying we liked him equally to Mellberg is essentially saying equal to Mellberg. As a former PR person Cochrane should have never put the two in the same sentence instead just cutting out the comparison altogether.

[ManUtd4ever]

so that would give us a first round pick HIGHER than 10th in 2014, correct? And as we know - picks after 5 after a huge gamble. So, we've swapped Hassli for a big of nuts and bolts, really! I'd call that a good deal for us! IF Mariner had exahcned a 2013 pick, I'd be pissed off - but a 2014 pick is a good deal for us, IMO.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/standings/2011

Last year, 49 points would have ranked us tied for 6th place overall in the league. An equivalent draft pick would be approximately the 12th pick overall.

[ManUtd4ever]

No, but his lackey Cochrane did.



By saying we liked him equally to Mellberg is essentially saying equal to Mellberg. As a former PR person Cochrane should have never put the two in the same sentence instead just cutting out the comparison altogether.


I have the same disdain for Cochrane's numerous PR blunders as everyone else. Why should Mariner be blamed for that?

And how exactly is Cochrane Mariner's lackey considering that Cochrane has been with the organization since day one?

Mariner didn't hire him, he was saddled with him.

[Walms]

Excellent signing - good age and plenty of growth still. I didn't realise he was in the Euro squad! Looking forward to seeing him here!

Great signing, I was also unaware he was included in the lastEuro Squad, I’m glad that the league approved this one.
Correct me if I’m wrong but his contact will not occupy a DPslot, just an international slot......correct?

In any case I'm Happy to have him and cant wait to see him play!

[T-boy]

No, but his lackey Cochrane did.



By saying we liked him equally to Mellberg is essentially saying equal to Mellberg. As a former PR person Cochrane should have never put the two in the same sentence instead just cutting out the comparison altogether.


I don't read it that way at all: "We locked up a player we like equally (to Mellberg), a guy with international experience, a leader, a competitor". Saying you like something equally to something else, is not saying they are the same thing. I also LIKE O'Dea equally to Mellberg, but for differen reason's. Mellberg has more experience, is more of a veteran leader, but is old and we wouldn't get more than 2 years out of him. O'Dea doesn't have as much experience, but is still an international, but is young and still has lots to grow and would be fit and healthy for many years to come. So for those reason's, I would want them equally at TFC. Getting a player of O'Dea calibre to the MLS from Europe, at his age, is a major signing, I would say! How many other mid-twenty's internationals come to the MLS?! And not only that, but an player who is STILL an international and was just at a major tournament! Any other players like him are well over 30 years old and on their way out of their career!

[ManUtd4ever]

From the article...


O’Dea was recently given the 2012 Ireland Young International Player of the Year award during the FAI International Football Awards in February.

[T-boy]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/standings/2011

Last year, 49 points would have ranked us tied for 6th place overall in the league. An equivalent draft pick would be approximately the 12th pick overall.


Maund was 12th pick this season.

Really the "valuable" picks are 5 and up. Anything over 5 is hit and miss.

[Saltcoats]

Terrific news about TFC signing Darren O'Dea. A much needed addition to the team and young enough to get some good years from him too...

[OgtheDim]

..O’Dea was recently given the 2012 Ireland Young International Player of the Year award during the FAI International Football Awards in February. ..

Isn't most of their NT over 30?

[Gazza]

Isn't most of their NT over 30?

Not to mention he couldn't crack the line up of the worst defense at the euros.

Expectations need to be tempered here. If he's not a dp, it's a decent signing.

[Phil]

Not to mention he couldn't crack the line up of the worst defense at the euros.

Expectations need to be tempered here. If he's not a dp, it's a decent signing.

He is not a DP

[Wooster_TFC]

No, but his lackey Cochrane did.



By saying we liked him equally to Mellberg is essentially saying equal to Mellberg. As a former PR person Cochrane should have never put the two in the same sentence instead just cutting out the comparison altogether.


You'll notice that the Mellberg addition was the writer's, and not actually stated by Cochrane. Just because they "liked" him the same, doesn't mean they think they are of the same caliber. Clearly Mellberg was their top target, with O'Dea a close second.

[Whoop]

O'Dea won't likely be in the lineup until the end of August as per Steven Sandor.

[Couchy81]

You'll notice that the Mellberg addition was the writer's, and not actually stated by Cochrane. Just because they "liked" him the same, doesn't mean they think they are of the same caliber. Clearly Mellberg was their top target, with O'Dea a close second.

Might want to re-read, the comment at issue is within the "quoted text". Usually if a writer adds in a piece of info such as in brackets, it is due to a question regarding that info the journalist has asked and received a response to.

The signing is OK with me since it's not a DP slot, honestly how can you really complain until you see the guy in action?

[T-boy]

O'Dea won't likely be in the lineup until the end of August as per Steven Sandor.

He's in the Ireland squad to play against Serbia Aug 15th, so likely be away for a week for that game. He also probably needs a "pre season" as he's been on vacation ever since the Euro's. This is definitely a signing for the future and not just for the short term.

[mdc 77]

O'Dea won't likely be in the lineup until the end of August as per Steven Sandor.

Any further explanation why he would think that? Curious because O'Dea says he will be here this Sunday, ready to play next Saturday. Also that he will head back to Europe for Ireland's match against Serbia 15 august. Which does seem tight.

[Whoop]

So you're going to play a guy who hasn't played in a couple of months after a week of training? Play and then fly around the world to sit on the bench.

Give him the time off if this is a long term signing.

[Pookie]

Plus it was a 2014 pick, not 2013 - there is lots and lots of time to pick up another draft selection for 2014 with all the trades that happen in the mls. We still have our natural selection pick in 2013, which will be quite a high pick I'd imagine.

Except of course if Hassli delivers on the supposed need and the team starts to win a few and move up the table. Pick gets worse as the team improves.

[TFC07]

Judging players by their form under Winter's system (or under Winter persay) is not a good idea. I'd like to see Ecks play under Mariner and see how much better he looks playing a simpler system. Ecks direct footballing style really suites a more physical, direct footballing team.

I still say he's one of the best FB's in the MLS, I have no doubt.

Under Mariner, Eck has been playing as a CB. He hasn't look that great and has made mistakes (positioning not great, booting the ball all the time which tells me he isn't comfortable with ball on his feet in middle of field, overly aggressive)

Eck is overpaid RB who plays as a CB which he isn't doing a great job. I hope TFC waive him if they have no intention to use Eck as a RB next season.

[Pookie]

Once again, your opinion is stated as if TFC had nothing to play for this season. If the CCL means nothing to you, and you think it's a foregone conclusion that TFC should have just thrown in the towel, speak for yourself.

Once Koevs went down for the season, priorities shifted, and justifiably so. A central striker became our most urgent need ahead of a CB, especially at the cost of utilizing a DP slot. I think that under the circumstances, Mariner definitely made the right call.

As for the value of the 2014 first round pick, well as you know, that will be determined based on the play of the club next season. If TFC maintains their current pace under Mariner for the entire season next year, it would end up being a negligible pick at best.

Oh, I'm no tanker. I believe you should play your ass off until the final whistle.

That said, a team that plays a style which does not control possession and has given up more goals than any other MLS team in the history of MLS (or darned near close) really needs a CB. If there is a "stud" "boss man" CB available, I don't know how you overlook it.

Particularly, when the cost to acquire Hassli is a first round pick AND Olaf Mellberg. Mellberg can't sign here if Hassli is here. Considering Hassli was going to be available this summer, it makes no sense to snag him first... none.... zero. Mellberg would have made the team more competitive, instantly.

It's not a question of bringing someone in to not play for something, it's bringing in someone who can help now (Mellberg) and who can help mentor a very young backline (Mellberg). And when you could do it AND keep your pick AND keep the door open to Koevermans or Hassli in the offseason, you are an idiot to make a reactionary, job saving, season ticket renewal inspired decision.

2013 line up could have included Hassli, Mellberg, AND our 2014 pick. Instead, we have Hassli.

No way to spin this other than pure mismanagement.

[T-boy]

Except of course if Hassli delivers on the supposed need and the team starts to win a few and move up the table. Pick gets worse as the team improves.

I know what you're saying - but its never good to "play to be lower in the table" just to get a higher draft pick. I'd personally like to be higher this season and get a lower draft pick next season! Getting a high draft pick just proves that you're a bad team!


Under Mariner, Eck has been playing as a CB. He hasn't look that great and has made mistakes (positioning not great, booting the ball all the time which tells me he isn't comfortable with ball on his feet in middle of field, overly aggressive)

Eck is overpaid RB who plays as a CB which he isn't doing a great job. I hope TFC waive him if they have no intention to use Eck as a RB next season.

I don't think we should judge Ecks playing out of position. It would be like judging Kocic playing as a striker! I think Mariner would love to see Ecks play in his favoured RB position. Let's see what happens with O'Dea here, I'm sure we will see Ecks move back to full back fairly soon. He's done an fine job deputising at CB over the last month, we can be thankful for that.

[ManUtd4ever]

Except of course if Hassli delivers on the supposed need and the team starts to win a few and move up the table. Pick gets worse as the team improves.

The prospects of the CCL aside, what is your alternative?

Mariner took over from a coach that compiled a 1-9 start and suddenly started to string some postive results together. After a few games, the team loses it's MVP for the season.

Are you suggesting that Mariner should have just tanked the season as opposed to trying to replace Koevs?

I'm sure that would have went over real well with vast majority of supporters, all for the opportunity to keep a 2014 draft pick which may not amount to anything viable when all is said and done.

Besides, in all likelihood, our 2013 draft pick will still be relatively high. The acquisitions of Hassli and O'Dea are to improve our chances of advancing in the CCL with an eye towards building for next season.

[Canary10]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/standings/2011

Last year, 49 points would have ranked us tied for 6th place overall in the league. An equivalent draft pick would be approximately the 12th pick overall.

Under Mariner we have 1.45 points per game, Columbus, in 6th place, is at 1.47. We would be in 7th place.

[ManUtd4ever]

Under Mariner we have 1.45 points per game, Columbus, in 6th place, is at 1.47. We would be in 7th place.

It's irrelevant, because the pick we gave up will be based on next year's performance anyway.

[T-boy]

Oh, I'm no tanker. I believe you should play your ass off until the final whistle.

That said, a team that plays a style which does not control possession and has given up more goals than any other MLS team in the history of MLS (or darned near close) really needs a CB. If there is a "stud" "boss man" CB available, I don't know how you overlook it.

Particularly, when the cost to acquire Hassli is a first round pick AND Olaf Mellberg. Mellberg can't sign here if Hassli is here. Considering Hassli was going to be available this summer, it makes no sense to snag him first... none.... zero. Mellberg would have made the team more competitive, instantly.

It's not a question of bringing someone in to not play for something, it's bringing in someone who can help now (Mellberg) and who can help mentor a very young backline (Mellberg). And when you could do it AND keep your pick AND keep the door open to Koevermans or Hassli in the offseason, you are an idiot to make a reactionary, job saving, season ticket renewal inspired decision.

2013 line up could have included Hassli, Mellberg, AND our 2014 pick. Instead, we have Hassli.

No way to spin this other than pure mismanagement.

You're missing out the Koev's part of the equation. We couldn't fit in Mellberg, Koev's, Hassli, AND Frings in 2013. So somebody has to give.

Now we have O'Dea to put into the equation. So would we rather have one or the other:

1. Frings, Koev's, Hassli, AND O'dea (who is a non DP).
or
2. Frings, Mellberg, and ONE of Hassli OR Koev's.

I'd personally prefer the 3 DP's AND O'Dea.

Also, there is no way 2013 could include a 2014 draft pick, unless his name is Marty and he has a DeLorean! :p

[TFC07]

I don't think we should judge Ecks playing out of position. It would be like judging Kocic playing as a striker! I think Mariner would love to see Ecks play in his favoured RB position. Let's see what happens with O'Dea here, I'm sure we will see Ecks move back to full back fairly soon. He's done an fine job deputising at CB over the last month, we can be thankful for that.

Not really. It isn't big of an adjustment. lol Plus Henry is starting to play well as a RB.

O'Dea should take over Emory job as a CB (left footed).

[Canary10]

Maund was 12th pick this season.

Really the "valuable" picks are 5 and up. Anything over 5 is hit and miss.

Ironically enough, there are two starting CBs in the league right now taken above 5....

[ManUtd4ever]

Oh, I'm no tanker. I believe you should play your ass off until the final whistle.

That said, a team that plays a style which does not control possession and has given up more goals than any other MLS team in the history of MLS (or darned near close) really needs a CB. If there is a "stud" "boss man" CB available, I don't know how you overlook it.

Particularly, when the cost to acquire Hassli is a first round pick AND Olaf Mellberg. Mellberg can't sign here if Hassli is here. Considering Hassli was going to be available this summer, it makes no sense to snag him first... none.... zero. Mellberg would have made the team more competitive, instantly.

It's not a question of bringing someone in to not play for something, it's bringing in someone who can help now (Mellberg) and who can help mentor a very young backline (Mellberg). And when you could do it AND keep your pick AND keep the door open to Koevermans or Hassli in the offseason, you are an idiot to make a reactionary, job saving, season ticket renewal inspired decision.

2013 line up could have included Hassli, Mellberg, AND our 2014 pick. Instead, we have Hassli.

No way to spin this other than pure mismanagement.

Your rationale is based on the assumption that Hassli would have been available in the off season, which is not guaranteed, and that he would have chosen to sign here.

As for the most prudent use of one available DP slot, I think there's no question that a quality striker supercedes a quality CB, especially when a team loses their top goal scorer.

[T-boy]

Ironically enough, there are two starting CBs in the league right now taken above 5....

There are exceptions - that's why I said its "hit or miss" with the players above 5 in the draft. Plata was 42nd, of course! So there are definite exceptions that can be good players higher in the draft. But there are also MORE players above 5 that never make it.

[Canary10]

There are exceptions - that's why I said its "hit or miss" with the players above 5 in the draft. Plata was 42nd, of course! So there are definite exceptions that can be good players higher in the draft. But there are also MORE players above 5 that never make it.

I mean two from last year alone.

Kind of ironic that we could have filled our so-called biggest need from the draft...

[Pookie]

Your rationale is based on the assumption that Hassli would have been available in the off season, which is not guaranteed, and that he would have chosen to sign here.

As for the most prudent use of one available DP slot, I think there's no question that a quality striker supercedes a quality CB, especially when a team loses their top goal scorer.

I'm assuming that we could have found a striker, Hassli or otherwise to replace Koevermans... IF... he isn't going to return. Perhaps even through the Superdraft or trade as we did last year for players like Gordon.

In 2013, it is also very likely that Koevermans returns. If that happens, giving up on a DP CB for the sake of a 12 game run with Hassli is ridiculous especially when the cost is Mellberg AND a 1st round pick.

Assessing our need for a striker as paramount seems odd when we finished last when we had our "top goal scorer". Our problem, was, is and remains our ability to keep the ball out of our goal. Mariner lamented a young back line makes mistakes. Seems like that will continue.

Are you saying that Hassli will help us win more games and advance further in the CCL than Mellberg would have?

[OgtheDim]

So you're going to play a guy who hasn't played in a couple of months after a week of training?


Amerikwa?

O'Dea will hopefully come in at the half.


Emory isn't going to get a game soon though. Or Henry.

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm assuming that we could have found a striker, Hassli or otherwise to replace Koevermans... IF... he isn't going to return. Perhaps even through the Superdraft or trade as we did last year for players like Gordon.

In 2013, it is also very likely that Koevermans returns. If that happens, giving up on a DP CB for the sake of a 12 game run with Hassli is ridiculous especially when the cost is Mellberg AND a 1st round pick.

Assessing our need for a striker as paramount seems odd when we finished last when we had our "top goal scorer". Our problem, was, is and remains our ability to keep the ball out of our goal. Mariner lamented a young back line makes mistakes. Seems like that will continue.

Are you saying that Hassli will help us win more games and advance further in the CCL than Mellberg would have?

Once again your asessment is based on many assumptions.

It's very difficult to sign quality strikers in this league, especially near the end of the transfer window when a team is caught off guard with a devastating injury to their top goal scorer. By trading for Hassli as a replacement, it was an instant remedy, and one that was readily available. Furthermore, Koevs may never play again.

I've maintained all along with many others that a DP slot is not best served to acquire a CB under the best of circumstances. I think that TFC with a stud CB like Mellberg and no reliable goal scoring threat up front would be worse off then TFC with Hassli and a decent backline bolstered by a reliable non DP CB like O'Dea.

[PopePouri]

Hall gives way for Ecks to move the RB. Emory remains. That's my prediction.

Hall may be moved to midfield.

[Canary10]

It's irrelevant, because the pick we gave up will be based on next year's performance anyway.

You were the one who raised our current form as a reason to think the pick will be irrelevant.

[Pookie]

Once again your asessment is based on many assumptions.

It's very difficult to sign quality strikers in this league, especially near the end of the transfer window when a team is caught off guard with a devastating injury to their top goal scorer. By trading for Hassli as a replacement, it was an instant remedy, and one that was readily available. Furthermore, Koevs may never play again.

I've maintained all along with many others that a DP slot is not best served to acquire a CB under the best of circumstances. I think that TFC with a stud CB like Mellberg and no reliable goal scoring threat up front would be worse off then TFC with Hassli and a decent backline bolstered by a reliable non DP CB like O'Dea.

Not one opinion is right and I respect that you have a different view than mine.

I've got to think though that TFC has physician reports as to the extent of the injury and likelihood of recovery. I agree that Hassli was a readily available option. However, it is a costly fix.

And I might add, given his own injury isn't even a fix at this point. He hasn't played and we have no idea as to whether his health will return to 100% through the remainder of the season. Who knows, he may go a full 90 tomorrow. Or he might go 45 and "tweak" something.

Add to it that this recent signing isn't available until the end of August it brings your "win now" mantra into serious question.

I'm all for Mariner thinking about the long term but the move for Hassli is anything but a long term solution. It is a ridiculously high price and if neither of these players can make an impact now, what would have been the harm in pursing Mellberg, keeping the pick and looking at options with DK's situation much clearer in a few months?

[ManUtd4ever]

You were the one who raised our current form as a reason to think the pick will be irrelevant.

I raised that point in reference to our potential league ranking next season, if we maintained our current pace under Mariner, in response to the value of the draft pick that we gave up in the deal for Hassli. In a typical MLS season, a 49 point season would equate to a negligible draft pick. That was my point.

[Greatest Ripoff]

I know what you're saying - but its never good to "play to be lower in the table" just to get a higher draft pick. I'd personally like to be higher this season and get a lower draft pick next season! Getting a high draft pick just proves that you're a bad team!



I don't think we should judge Ecks playing out of position. It would be like judging Kocic playing as a striker! I think Mariner would love to see Ecks play in his favoured RB position. Let's see what happens with O'Dea here, I'm sure we will see Ecks move back to full back fairly soon. He's done an fine job deputising at CB over the last month, we can be thankful for that.

Then Mariner should play them in their proper positions. Henry looks much better at a CB and then at RB and you've stated that Eckersley is a better RB than CB. So why are they being played out of position?

[ManUtd4ever]

Not one opinion is right and I respect that you have a different view than mine.

I've got to think though that TFC has physician reports as to the extent of the injury and likelihood of recovery. I agree that Hassli was a readily available option. However, it is a costly fix.

And I might add, given his own injury isn't even a fix at this point. He hasn't played and we have no idea as to whether his health will return to 100% through the remainder of the season. Who knows, he may go a full 90 tomorrow. Or he might go 45 and "tweak" something.

Add to it that this recent signing isn't available until the end of August it brings your "win now" mantra into serious question.

I'm all for Mariner thinking about the long term but the move for Hassli is anything but a long term solution. It is a ridiculously high price and if neither of these players can make an impact now, what would have been the harm in pursing Mellberg, keeping the pick and looking at options with DK's situation much clearer in a few months?

I could understand your point of view if your opinion was to not trade any assets at all or utilize any valuable DP slots in a lost season, despite the fact the CCL was on the horizon.

But by that rationale, wouldn't the acquisition of Mellberg be counter productive as well?

If you don't support tanking and want the team to fight until the end, wasn't it more prudent to address our greatest need at the time in a proven striker?

As for the cost of acquiring Hassli, we don't know if the price is ridiculously high at all. Even if TFC is a mid table club next season, the pick could very well end up being a future bench warmer. Furthermore, if TFC waited a few months to try and replace Koevs, it would have been perceived as waiving the white flag on the rest of the season and the CCL, which would have been sheer suicide for the organization at this juncture.

[Abou Sky]

Not one opinion is right and I respect that you have a different view than mine.

I've got to think though that TFC has physician reports as to the extent of the injury and likelihood of recovery. I agree that Hassli was a readily available option. However, it is a costly fix.

And I might add, given his own injury isn't even a fix at this point. He hasn't played and we have no idea as to whether his health will return to 100% through the remainder of the season. Who knows, he may go a full 90 tomorrow. Or he might go 45 and "tweak" something.

Add to it that this recent signing isn't available until the end of August it brings your "win now" mantra into serious question.

I'm all for Mariner thinking about the long term but the move for Hassli is anything but a long term solution. It is a ridiculously high price and if neither of these players can make an impact now, what would have been the harm in pursing Mellberg, keeping the pick and looking at options with DK's situation much clearer in a few months?

I have to agree, although I think Darren O'Dea is a good addition even with Mellberg.

You don't win games by not having goals scored against you, but it sure helps the cause and RJ HAS to get back on a good run again eventually.

[maninb]

The MLSE spin job is tiresome. But O'Dea is a young, capable cb for this league and is exactly what we need without a dp price tag. He's no Melberg, but that ship has sailed now and it's time to move on. Hopefully we give the guy a warm welcome. He's coming here for a new lease on his football career, hopefully he can find a home here.

Well said...

[Ultra & Proud]

what would have been the harm in pursing Mellberg, keeping the pick and looking at options with DK's situation much clearer in a few months?


Because the CCL would have been written off this year as well as our extreme outside chance of a playoff push. Also our back line has fared much better since Mariner took over so the need for one DP CB to fix things wasn't as pressing (IMO) as when our previous system was set up for defensive disasters.

Then if DK is unable to go until midway next season, or worse (knock on wood), we'd be left with dick all up front and then all the peanut gallery here would bemoan the incompetence of Mariner for wasting a DP spot on a CB when we can't score goals for shit. Then at the end of next season's campaign, our 'stud' DP Mellberg and Frings plus Koef would sail off into the sunset and we'd be left with a whole lot of not much on the roster and everyone would be up in arms for buying fading and aging Europeans to fill our roster and then freak out about the subsequent rebuilding.

At least now we will have O' Dea for some years and Hassli is 31 so if he pans out he could stay around for a few seasons as well. This way we at least have cover in 2 positions instead of one going forward.

[ManUtd4ever]

If everything had gone according to plan, Koevs doesn't get injured on that plastic turf in New England, TFC signs Mellberg, and everyone is happy.

Now, we're left with Hassli and O'Dea. Shit happens, but I think we still added quality reinforcements under the circumstances.

[ManUtd4ever]

Because the CCL would have been written off this year as well as our extreme outside chance of a playoff push. Also our back line has fared much better since Mariner took over so the need for one DP CB to fix things wasn't as pressing (IMO) as when our previous system was set up for defensive disasters.

Then if DK is unable to go until midway next season, or worse (knock on wood), we'd be left with dick all up front and then all the peanut gallery here would bemoan the incompetence of Mariner for wasting a DP spot on a CB when we can't score goals for shit. Then at the end of next season's campaign, our 'stud' DP Mellberg and Frings plus Koef would sail off into the sunset and we'd be left with a whole lot of not much on the roster and everyone would be up in arms for buying fading and aging Europeans to fill our roster and then freak out about the subsequent rebuilding.

At least now we will have O' Dea for some years and Hassli is 31 so if he pans out he could stay around for a few seasons as well. This way we at least have cover in 2 positions instead of one going forward.

Bang on.

[Abou Sky]

TBH, looking at the squad, I am pretty happy with what we have, including the coach.

[Pookie]

If everything had gone according to plan, Koevs doesn't get injured on that plastic turf in New England, TFC signs Mellberg, and everyone is happy.

Now, we're left with Hassli and O'Dea. Shit happens, but I think we still added quality reinforcments under the circumstances.

I wouldn't be so sure that we will have Hassli next year.

I had a bit of a twitter convo with Kurtis Larson who indiciated:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN@GardnerFanfuel (https://twitter.com/GardnerFanfuel) Hassli is very much on trial. Pretty sure next year is an option year for him.


And on DK

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN
@GardnerFanfuel Mariner said yesterday he will "absolutely" be back. Koevermans was also with the club yesterday, smiling etc.


As for CCL, it is a Manager's job to aspire for greatness. It is also part of his job to ensure that reality guides his decisions. If, in getting Hassli, he believes that we can beat Santos then I guess that's his reality.

However, even the most ardent supporter, knowing that to advance in CCL requires us to beat Santos and win the pool, would suggest that it is a long shot. Rolling the dice on a "trial" and if he is telling the truth, knowing that DK will be back, seems like a colossal mis-management of resources.

It's like Brian Burke mis-reading his team and giving up 2 first round picks for Kessel. He felt those picks would be mid-round picks at best. Turns out one was the 2nd overall and the other a Top 10. Would he make that Kessel deal again knowing where his team actually finished?

Make no mistake, if Hassli does not return next year and the team bows out of the CCL and fails to make the playoffs in this current season, this deal which resulted in us losing a 1st round pick and Mellberg will turn out to be one of the the worst in our history.

[ManUtd4ever]

I wouldn't be so sure that we will have Hassli next year.

I had a bit of a twitter convo with Kurtis Larson who indiciated:

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN@GardnerFanfuel (https://twitter.com/GardnerFanfuel) Hassli is very much on trial. Pretty sure next year is an option year for him.


And on DK

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN
@GardnerFanfuel Mariner said yesterday he will "absolutely" be back. Koevermans was also with the club yesterday, smiling etc.


As for CCL, it is a Manager's job to aspire for greatness. It is also part of his job to ensure that reality guides his decisions. If, in getting Hassli, he believes that we can beat Santos then I guess that's his reality.

However, even the most ardent supporter, knowing that to advance in CCL requires us to beat Santos and win the pool, would suggest that it is a long shot. Rolling the dice on a "trial" and if he is telling the truth, knowing that DK will be back, seems like a colossal mis-management of resources.

It's like Brian Burke mis-reading his team and giving up 2 first round picks for Kessel. He felt those picks would be mid-round picks at best. Turns out one was the 2nd overall and the other a Top 10. Would he make that Kessel deal again knowing where his team actually finished?

Make no mistake, if Hassli does not return next year and the team bows out of the CCL and fails to make the playoffs in this current season, this deal which resulted in us losing a 1st round pick and Mellberg will turn out to be on the of the worst in our history.

Lots of 'ifs' in there.

Conversely, if TFC performs well the rest of the regular season (even if they miss the playoffs), if they have a good showing in the CCL (even if they finish just shy of winning the group), if Hassli is a siginificant contributor down the stretch, if TFC picks up his option next season and he continues to perform well, if Hassli and Koevs become the best striker duo in MLS, and if TFC makes the playoffs next year, no one will give a rat's ass about the 2014 draft pick or Mellberg.

[Ultra & Proud]

It's like Brian Burke mis-reading his team and giving up 2 first round picks for Kessel. He felt those picks would be mid-round picks at best. Turns out one was the 2nd overall and the other a Top 10. Would he make that Kessel deal again knowing where his team actually finished?

First it's fairly ridiculous to make a comparison between first round NHL draft picks and MLS Superdraft picks. Even top 5 superdraft picks aren't sure fire hits and as stated many, many times, the pick is for 2014 and hopefully next year we make that pick #12 or worse. Unless us tanking next year too by having no true CF (dependent on when DK is back and how long it takes his fitness to come along) and getting a top 5 draft pick is what you would like us to do.

Plus of course Hassli is basically here on a trial. Any player dealt anywhere with a team option is on a trial.

[Pookie]

Knowing that there was a path to have Hassli next year if necessary, Mellberg and a 1st Round pick, I'm very comfortable in suggesting that we made the wrong choice at this point in time.

Though, from your side of the argument I guess Mariner's 4-4-2 could be the beginning of a dynasty unlike anything seen before in professional sport. We'll see soon enough.

[Ultra & Proud]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN
@GardnerFanfuel Mariner said yesterday he will "absolutely" be back. Koevermans was also with the club yesterday, smiling etc.
My worry with this is that he will absolutely be back and the recovery time is 6-9 months so that puts him right around when our season starts to begin training. This year, after having no major injuries and having 3 months off after last season, he was out of shape and chasing fitness for a couple of months. How long will he need to get back to full fitness after having a major injury and have 3/4 of a year off? If it's another 2-3 months then that's next summer and more than half our season will be gone.

[ManUtd4ever]

Knowing that there was a path to have Hassli next year if necessary, Mellberg and a 1st Round pick, I'm very comfortable in suggesting that we made the wrong choice at this point in time.

Though, from your side of the argument I guess Mariner's 4-4-2 could be the beginning of a dynasty unlike anything seen before in professional sport. We'll see soon enough.

What a BS comment to make. I suppose your theory that not replacing Koevs and signing Mellberg would have led to a dynasty, right?

When you're presented with a valid rebuttal, respond like a man.

Sarcastic responses intended to belittle the person who disagrees with you is not very becoming of a blogger for Sportsnet and Waking the Red, Mr. Gardner.

[Pookie]

First it's fairly ridiculous to make a comparison between first round NHL draft picks and MLS Superdraft picks. Even top 5 superdraft picks aren't sure fire hits and as stated many, many times, the pick is for 2014 and hopefully next year we make that pick #12 or worse. Unless us tanking next year too by having no true CF (dependent on when DK is back and how long it takes his fitness to come along) and getting a top 5 draft pick is what you would like us to do.

Plus of course Hassli is basically here on a trial. Any player dealt anywhere with a team option is on a trial.

Top 5 Superdraft picks are typically Generation Adidas picks which give supreme flexibility against the cap. Very valuable, even if simply if used as a trade asset.

The Superdraft, given our lack of scouting in the US and difficulty in trading Canadian players given MLS roster rules, reprsents one of the only ways for this club to acquire US Domestic roster players. I'm not going to rehash the importance of that but suffice to say it is extremely important. We actually gave up 2 picks in that draft, meaning that of 4 available assets we could take, we will now only bring in half.

No one is saying that there is a future superstar but they are all tangible assets with more significant trade value than Canadian Academy grads in the economy that is the MLS.

[Ultra & Proud]

Though, from your side of the argument I guess Mariner's 4-4-2 could be the beginning of a dynasty unlike anything seen before in professional sport. We'll see soon enough.

No but it could be the start of something we haven't seen much of here for the year and a half prior to him taking over; winning and not being the worst defensive team on the planet.

[Pookie]

What a BS comment to make. I suppose your theory that not replacing Koevs and signing Mellberg would have led to a dynasty, right?

When you're presented with a valid rebuttal, respond like a man.

Sarcastic responses intended to belittle the person who disagrees with you is not very becoming of a blogger for Sportsnet and Waking the Red, Mr. Gardiner.

You are implying that the acquisition of Hassli could power this team to new heights that were not going to be apparent by acquiring Mellberg. These results are also (ideally) going to be better than had we not made the move to replace Koevermans. Subtract the word dynasty if it bothers you. I would suggest though that you are expecting this team to excel under Mariner and these player decisions.

My theory is that bringing in Mellberg to teach players like Morgan and Henry and Eckersley would have indeed resulted in long term, tangible improvement which we could ride for years. I can't say dynasty with a straight face because Mariner's system is going in the opposite direction to the majority of the MLS world. I see it as short lived and would be extremely surprised if the next 10 games result in a better record than the first 10 under him.

Though I can't say dynasty, I can say that keeping one's assets and bringing in mentors to work on a 6 year problem would absolutely be positive, long term steps for a club to take. I don't see going from 19th place to 17th place (or even 14th place) as anything to aspire to in this current year. I don't see finishing 2nd to Santos, which we were likely to do anyways, as a positive sign. I don't see that it will result in confidence that can rub off, just as the positive end to 2011 had no correlation to the start of 2012. Again, I would see someone who could come in and steady the back line and teach as one of the most important long term moves we could make.

The improvements we can make for the last 12 games of this season are not measured in meaningless wins and losses. They are about organization and learning.

We all want a dynasty. I don't think you get it with band-aids. As my wife says though, I've been wrong before. Let's see it play out.

[Red Skies At Night]

Well the conversation seems to have drifted into a place where we assume melberg was "the answer". I'm not sure about that, or how long he would have stuck around. But ultimately it seems an issue of 6 and 2 three's. If we didn't pick up another forward to replace DK and he doesn't come back in time to begin next season then we could of been struggling for goals and people would be angry at PM for not shoring up the attack. Yet we may well struggle to stop goals next year, in which case PM will be pilloried for not shoring up the backline. Damned if you do... etc.

I'm also not convinced that waiting until the off-season would have enabled us to get a strong striker. So I'm "wait and see" on the whole affair.

But I guess that's it for signings this season, and now I can stop refreshing this page every two minutes and get back to my life.

[Ultra & Proud]

You are implying that the acquisition of Hassli could power this team to new heights that were not going to be apparent by acquiring Mellberg.

Who said that and where was this said?

Hassli will help stabilize our attack and he may possibly, only possibly, be around after Koevermans is gone. Would it be out of the question that he may be able to coach our forwards (Silva, Amerikwa) much like Mellberg would have with the D?

Also, I should remind you in case you missed it, that Hassli hasn't played one minute here yet. Now he may be the same as in Vancouver and be hit and miss or maybe he goes off like Wondo did when he got traded to SJ. We have to wait and see. And there is no way to say before Mellberg got here and actually played that he would solve all our problems at the back either (which we are having less of already). Just because someone has pedigree and is from Europe doesn't mean the 34+ year old legs can handle the pace, heat, and dodgy turf that is encountered in MLS.

[T-boy]

Then Mariner should play them in their proper positions. Henry looks much better at a CB and then at RB and you've stated that Eckersley is a better RB than CB. So why are they being played out of position?

I think purely cos Mariner wants his "more two seinior defenders" playing a CB. Which I think makes sense. When the average age of your defense isn't even 22, you need to make sure the central pair are the two with experience. Plus Eckersley is more of a "talker" than Henry, so you need somebody at CB to shout at other players. Unless Henry has somebody else next to him to do that, you need somebody like Ecks there instead.

[ManUtd4ever]

You are implying that the acquisition of Hassli could power this team to new heights that were not going to be apparent by acquiring Mellberg. These results are also (ideally) going to be better than had we not made the move to replace Koevermans. Subtract the word dynasty if it bothers you. I would suggest though that you are expecting this team to excel under Mariner and these player decisions.

My theory is that bringing in Mellberg to teach players like Morgan and Henry and Eckersley would have indeed resulted in long term, tangible improvement which we could ride for years. I can't say dynasty with a straight face because Mariner's system is going in the opposite direction to the majority of the MLS world. I see it as short lived and would be extremely surprised if the next 10 games result in a better record than the first 10 under him.

Though I can't say dynasty, I can say that keeping one's assets and bringing in mentors to work on a 6 year problem would absolutely be positive, long term steps for a club to take. I don't see going from 19th place to 17th place (or even 14th place) as anything to aspire to in this current year. I don't see finishing 2nd to Santos, which we were likely to do anyways, as a positive sign. I don't see that it will result in confidence that can rub off, just as the positive end to 2011 had no correlation to the start of 2012. Again, I would see someone who could come in and steady the back line and teach as one of the most important long term moves we could make.

The improvements we can make for the last 12 games of this season are not measured in meaningless wins and losses. They are about organization and learning.

We all want a dynasty. I don't think you get it with band-aids. As my wife says though, I've been wrong before. Let's see it play out.

No one suggested that Hassli will lead the team to new heights or that his acquisition will be the precursor to a dynasty. It will however give our team a fighting chance in the CCL, and a chance to finish the season on a positive note.

What Ultra and Proud, myself, and others who endorsed the acquisition of Hassli have suggested is that it was the more prudent decision in terms of uitlizing the available DP slot once Koevs went down for the season.

Ideally, we could have had a healthy Koevs and Mellberg on the roster today, but shit happens. Mariner had to react accordingly in short order to avoid sending the wrong message to the fan base by writing off the the CCL and the rest of the season. As a result, we ended up with Hassli and O'Dea as their replacements.

At the very least, Mariner has tried to continue to lead this team on a positive trajectory in the face of adversity, and that's all I can ask for as a supporter.

[Ultra & Proud]

I think purely cos Mariner wants his "more two seinior defenders" playing a CB. Which I think makes sense. When the average age of your defense isn't even 22, you need to make sure the central pair are the two with experience. Plus Eckersley is more of a "talker" than Henry, so you need somebody at CB to shout at other players. Unless Henry has somebody else next to him to do that, you need somebody like Ecks there instead.
I think I may be the only one who thinks Eckersley has been playing better as of late at CB than he was at RB. For me, he is showing a lot of improvement positionally now. Still gets caught out but far less than before.

[Ultra & Proud]

No one suggested that Hassli will lead the team to new heights or that his acquisition will be the precursor to a dynasty. It will however give our team a fighting chance in the CCL, and a chance to finish the season on a positive note.

What Ultra and Proud, myself, and others who endorsed the acquisition of Hassli have suggested is that it was the more prudent decision in terms of uitlizing the available DP slot once Koevs went down for the season.

Ideally, we could have had a healthy Koevs and Mellberg on the roster today, but shit happens. Mariner had to react accordingly in short order to avoid sending the wrong message to the fan base by writing off the the CCL and the rest of the season. As a result, we ended up with Hassli and O'Dea as their replacements.

At the very least, Mariner has tried to continue to lead this team on a positive trajectory in the face of adversity, and that's all I can ask for as a supporter.

Exactly! Plus I see Hassli as being extremely motivated, contractually and also emotionally for how he was dumped by VC, and that for me, is always a good thing. I like angry forwards.

[T-boy]

All this arguing is slightly crazy!

I think we ALL agree that DP slot should be used for attacking players. These are the most valuable players in football, and the most difficult to come accross. When Keov's got injured, we HAD to find a replacement. There is absolutely no doubt about that. Hassli, IMO is a good replacement.

So the question is - is giving up a draft pick for 2014 a good exchange? IMO yes it is - its a 2014 pick, not 2013. There is MASSES of time for TFC to make trades to get another 2014 pick, there is no doubt.

I also think that O'Dea is a better long term solution to our CB problem than Mellberg. I would have LOVED Mellberg to have signed, but even the most liberal fan would admit that he would be a short term solution and we would get max 2 seasons out of him. O'Dea has international experience, captain experience, and is only 25 years old. On the whole, O'Dea is equally as good a signing as Mellberg, and we haven't needed to give up a DP slot for him.

If Hassli works out, next season we could have a spine in the team of O'Dea, Frings, Koev's AND Hassli! Thats impressive if you ask me! And then we have lots of young players that we can easily trade if IF we feel that getting a draft pick in 2014 is necessarily.

I also think that draft picks are going to get less valuable to TFC over the next few seasons anyways, with the emergence of some of the academy players. Academy players don't count towards the cap, plus you know the players, so are more used to whatever system we are playing. The draft is always a gamble - sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

In all, we lose JDG and a draft pick in 2014, and we've got O'Dea and Hassli, which we absolutely needed to do to replace Koev's. I would say that's pretty positive. We still have a 2013 draft pick in the first round (which will be a lot higher than our 2014 pick, I would hope).

[Ultra & Proud]

I think we ALL agree that DP slot should be used for attacking players.

Well I know we used one on a DM once who was here to tutor our young guys, right the ship, and solve a lot of our defensive woes and we all know how that turned out.
http://usector.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Julian-de-Guzman.jpg

[Pookie]

Exactly! Plus I see Hassli as being extremely motivated, contractually and also emotionally for how he was dumped by VC, and that for me, is always a good thing. I like angry forwards.

All well and good gents.

Just know that the price of a first round pick for a DP was one of the highest prices ever paid for a DP.

Recent trades involving DPs include:

Dallas gave up Wiedeman (2nd round pick) for JDG
Seattle traded Fernandez for allocation money
LA traded Angel for a 3rd round pick
New England traded Joseph for Gavin, a 2nd round pick and allocation money

... that's not including the vast number of DPs that have signed with a cost nothing more than a contract. Including strikers this transfer window such as:

Sharjill MacDonald (Striker) Chicago
Kenny Miller (Striker) Vancouver
Marco Di Vaio (Striker) Montreal

[Pookie]

Well I know we used one on a DM once who was here to tutor our young guys, right the ship, and solve a lot of our defensive woes and we all know how that turned out.


Actually, history says that he was brought here because he was Canadian and we needed another band-aid to justify higher ticket prices. A Canadian passport was the criteria in signing the club's first DP.

[T-boy]

All well and good gents.

Just know that the price of a first round pick for a DP was one of the highest prices ever paid for a DP.

Recent trades involving DPs include:

Dallas gave up Wiedeman (2nd round pick) for JDG
Seattle traded Fernandez for allocation money
LA traded Angel for a 3rd round pick
New England traded Joseph for Gavin, a 2nd round pick and allocation money

... that's not including the vast number of DPs that have signed with a cost nothing more than a contract. Including strikers this transfer window such as:

Sharjill MacDonald (Striker) Chicago
Kenny Miller (Striker) Vancouver
Marco Di Vaio (Striker) Montreal

It isn't always just a trade of DP player X with draft pick. There is also the trade off of getting a DP salary (OR the actual DP slot itself) off your salary cap space.

LA had to trade Angel to get a DP slot off their books, for example. Freeing up that DP space was much more valuable than anything they got in return. LA then had the DP slot available to sign Robbie Keane.

TFC "only" got Wiedeman from Dallas, but they also picked up his DP slot, and freed up that spot for TFC. Freeing up the massive salary $ on TFC's books was the important part of that exchange, not getting Wiedeman - Wiedeman was just an addition to the money saved from JDG's salary. Meanwhile Dallas had to give up a DP slot to sign JDG and take up the room in their salary cap.

Different elements can be valuable to different teams (a DP slot, an international slot, salary money off your cap etc).

Giving up a draft pick for 2 years time, is pretty good business imo.

I'll also add that the WORST trade for a draft pick in TFC history was not this one, it was giving up a first round pick for Nathan Sturgis! That was a horrible bit of business! Mind you, Whitecaps only got some guy called Nanchoff in the draft, who's only played a couple of games! So overall the whole thing was a terrible bit of business!

[Dub Narcotic]

None of the three DP's should be back next year on DP salaries if TFC has any clue what it is doing (there's the rub). Hassli is not a DP player in this league, Frings is too old and slow for his ridiculous salary and Koevermans will be rendered useless for next year because of the injury. This team really needs five or six more MLS-quality players all over the park to challenge for starting spots at all positions, and with those three clogging up the cap it will never happen.

At the very least, they cannot pick up Hassli's DP option year, which will leave them will some cap flexibility and an international spot next year. If they can get Kovermans off the cap and free his DP spot, who cares if they are actually paying him money or not. They should only have two DP spots taken next year, one has to be a forward, and one can either be a CB or a central midfielder. They also *must* keep their own draft pick this year. Whomever they get will instantly be one of the best prospects on the team, look how good the high picks were this year for all of the Canadian teams.

[Ultra & Proud]

They also *must* keep their own draft pick this year. Whomever they get will instantly be one of the best prospects on the team, look how good the high picks were this year for all of the Canadian teams.

Doesn't always work out that way:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_E9JlPEZm-ss/SmX6GZHA6HI/AAAAAAAAARU/1P90fYaspaY/s320/O'Brian.jpg

[OgtheDim]

I think I may be the only one who thinks Eckersley has been playing better as of late at CB than he was at RB. For me, he is showing a lot of improvement positionally now. Still gets caught out but far less than before.

Nope...me too.

Ecks may miss going up the wing but I prefer him in the middle chasing down stuff.

[Ultra & Proud]

Actually, history says that he was brought here because he was Canadian and we needed another band-aid to justify higher ticket prices. A Canadian passport was the criteria in signing the club's first DP.

I seem to recall an outcry on this board demanding more Canadians on the roster at that time and management followed what the popular sentiment was amongst supporters. Same with signing Gerba.

[Huyton]

No one suggested that Hassli will lead the team to new heights or that his acquisition will be the precursor to a dynasty. It will however give our team a fighting chance in the CCL, and a chance to finish the season on a positive note.

What Ultra and Proud, myself, and others who endorsed the acquisition of Hassli have suggested is that it was the more prudent decision in terms of uitlizing the available DP slot once Koevs went down for the season.

Ideally, we could have had a healthy Koevs and Mellberg on the roster today, but shit happens. Mariner had to react accordingly in short order to avoid sending the wrong message to the fan base by writing off the the CCL and the rest of the season. As a result, we ended up with Hassli and O'Dea as their replacements.

At the very least, Mariner has tried to continue to lead this team on a positive trajectory in the face of adversity, and that's all I can ask for as a supporter.

Nicely said.

I like going to games at the moment, as we actually stand a chance of winning.

With this acquisition, we could have a back line containing Henry, Eckersley, O'Dea and Morgan. They're 19, 23, 25 and 21 respectively. They're strong, athletic, and they'll grow together nicely. Add in Adrian Cann and Dicoy Williams as and when they're fit, and with Kocic behind and Frings in front of them, then I think they'll be OK.

Dynastic world beaters? No...but not the "Worst Team in the World", either. Should be good enough to handle most things that'll be thrown at them in MLS, anyway.

As for next year...the possibility of seeing Hassli and Koevermans together up front makes me smile. I think that it's a combination that could cause many defences in MLS to shit themselves in fear.


Could things have worked out better? Sure they could. Koevermans could still be uninjured. DeGuzman could have been the signing we all hoped he could be. DeRo could be a DP now if he doesn't pantomime signing a check.

On the whole, though, things could be so much worse.

[Canary10]

I'm not a fan of Mariner, but I think the Hassli trade was worth it. Even with a healthy Koef, I would have made that trade. We were incredibly thin in the striker position. I still don't see Jonhson as a proper striker - with or without Koef we needed another one. Personally I really like Hassli. He plays with a chip on his shoulder - he'll get things going out there. Mellberg would have been great, but I wouldn't use a DP slot on a CB.

I do think Pookie is pointing to some very legitimate risks, but worth it to get Hassli imo.

[Wooster_TFC]

I'm not a fan of Mariner, but I think the Hassli trade was worth it. Even with a healthy Koef, I would have made that trade. We were incredibly thin in the striker position. I still don't see Jonhson as a proper striker - with or without Koef we needed another one. Personally I really like Hassli. He plays with a chip on his shoulder - he'll get things going out there. Mellberg would have been great, but I wouldn't use a DP slot on a CB.

I do think Pookie is pointing to some very legitimate risks, but worth it to get Hassli imo.

Problem is, Pookie's making a huge assumption in thinking that the Hassli trade cost us Mellberg. Sadly, we'll never know the true story, but it wouldn't surprise me if MLS has a "no defenders as DPs" sort of rule, much like they used to have "no current MLS players as DPs" rule.

I think that MLS would have blocked the Mellberg deal regardless of our cap and DP space situation. They probably think that he's not going to be a draw from a tickets and marketing perspective, which are two very important criteria for them with DPs (however short sighted that may be).

[T-boy]

Problem is, Pookie's making a huge assumption in thinking that the Hassli trade cost us Mellberg. Sadly, we'll never know the true story, but it wouldn't surprise me if MLS has a "no defenders as DPs" sort of rule, much like they used to have "no current MLS players as DPs" rule.

I think that MLS would have blocked the Mellberg deal regardless of our cap and DP space situation. They probably think that he's not going to be a draw from a tickets and marketing perspective, which are two very important criteria for them with DPs (however short sighted that may be).

I would agree except Marquez is a DP CB, so the precident is set with that one.

[Canary10]

Even if Hassli didn't cost us Mellberg, there are some risks he brings, like the price of a draft pick, the opportunity cost of tying up another DP spot, having two DP forwards who may or may not be a real complement to each other. Still think it's worth it though.

[Ultra & Proud]

Problem is, Pookie's making a huge assumption in thinking that the Hassli trade cost us Mellberg. Sadly, we'll never know the true story, but it wouldn't surprise me if MLS has a "no defenders as DPs" sort of rule, much like they used to have "no current MLS players as DPs" rule.

I think that MLS would have blocked the Mellberg deal regardless of our cap and DP space situation. They probably think that he's not going to be a draw from a tickets and marketing perspective, which are two very important criteria for them with DPs (however short sighted that may be).
Yeah, Mellberg should not be mentioned in all this because not one of us knows what really happened behind closed doors. Speculation means nothing and none of us should pretend we know anything regarding the ins and outs of this whole situation. SO this deal shakes down like it was stated before: we gave up JDG, his DP spot, and a first rounder for Hassli, Wiedeman, and an international spot which I am not sure we needed for Amerikwa or O' Dea but we got it and them anyways.

[Whoop]

I don't buy the "no defenders as DPs".

I mean really?

Mellberg is a bigger name than most of the DPs signed in 2012 who include:

Jerry Bengtson
Oscar Garcia
Federico Higuain
Sherjill MacDonald
Oswaldo Minda
Javier Morales
Barry Robson
Mauro Rosales
Hamdi Salihi
Christian Tiffert

I'll put him on pa, for argument's sake though I don't agree, with Marco DiVaio, Kenny Miller, Kris Boyd and Tim Cahill for name recognition and Freddy Adu only because he's American.

Mellberg is a big name. He almost has more int'l caps than all those guys combined.

[Ultra & Proud]

I would agree except Marquez is a DP CB, so the precident is set with that one.

He's playing DM for NY though. Plus he's done underwear modeling and if there's one thing MLS likes in it's DPs it's a lot of photos of them in their drawers.

[Canary10]

Yeah, Mellberg should not be mentioned in all this because not one of us knows what really happened behind closed doors. Speculation means nothing and none of us should pretend we know anything regarding the ins and outs of this whole situation. SO this deal shakes down like it was stated before: we gave up JDG, his DP spot, and a first rounder for Hassli, Wiedeman, and an international spot which I am not sure we needed for Amerikwa or O' Dea but we got it and them anyways.

MLS has said that we got the DP slot but not the cap hit back when Koevermans got hurt. So not sure you can say we traded JDG for Hassli. Personally, I think the team is worse from the JDG, Soolsma and Plata moves. We would be a better team with them here.

[Super]

I would agree except Marquez is a DP CB, so the precident is set with that one.

Yeah, but different rules apply to NYRB.

Sorry, couldn't help myself ;)

[v00d00daddy]

Who said that and where was this said?

Hassli will help stabilize our attack and he may possibly, only possibly, be around after Koevermans is gone. Would it be out of the question that he may be able to coach our forwards (Silva, Amerikwa) much like Mellberg would have with the D?

Also, I should remind you in case you missed it, that Hassli hasn't played one minute here yet. Now he may be the same as in Vancouver and be hit and miss or maybe he goes off like Wondo did when he got traded to SJ. And he may have played worse than he did in Vancouver. We have to wait and see. And there is no way to say before Mellberg got here and actually played that he would solve all our problems at the back either (which we are having less of already). Just because someone has pedigree and is from Europe doesn't mean the 34+ year old legs can handle the pace, heat, and dodgy turf that is encountered in MLS. Or he may have come here and played great

Adjusted to show all sides of the coin and a little objectivity. LOL

[Pookie]

Also, I should remind you in case you missed it, that Hassli hasn't played one minute here yet.

No need to remind me, I think that is part of the argument as to why this is could turn out to be a colossal mis-management of our assets.

The trade was to help us here and now and thus far, he hasn't played. Of course trading for a player with a known injury will tend to result in that sort of thing ;)

[jazzy]

Here's an interesting quote about O'Dea :



Can he be useful alongside Adrian ?

I suppose we'll soon see. Twitter has me convinced that this is a done deal - just waiting for the official announcement now, aren't we ?

why adrian?..hopefully not

[Dkolish3]

Well I know we used one on a DM once who was here to tutor our young guys, right the ship, and solve a lot of our defensive woes and we all know how that turned out.
http://usector.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Julian-de-Guzman.jpg
You know that's a word for word description of Frings right?

[Blizzard]

why adrian?..hopefully not

Why not. I'd be happy to have Adrian back in there on a regular basis. Ya, we've also got Doneil and Logan and that's fine too. Doneil is quickly growing into the role and Logan has been ok, sometimes much better than ok.

[jazzy]

Amerikwa?

O'Dea will hopefully come in at the half.


Emory isn't going to get a game soon though. Or Henry.

this is my worry if we screw up henry, a sure local 'star' in need of field time then we are really stupid,...plain and simple...or morgan for that matter....btw off topic loved how huston after dominating ny tonight , the players were discussing how their 4-3-3,..was very effective and enjoyable...and obviously showing them great renewed success,..ot seems winter wasn't far off,...in theory

[jazzy]

Hall gives way for Ecks to move the RB. Emory remains. That's my prediction.

Hall may be moved to midfield.

why now? when we should have had him there all the while exchanging with Henry??

[Abou Sky]

I think I may be the only one who thinks Eckersley has been playing better as of late at CB than he was at RB. For me, he is showing a lot of improvement positionally now. Still gets caught out but far less than before.

Nope, I am TOTALLY there with you, he is amazing at CB and if we can get Henry proper mentor he will be a beast.

I think at this rate TFC may have best back line in MLS.

PM obviously wants to win both now AND in the future.

I think he rocks, who else is kicking a ball around with their boys before a game, still waiting for him to cross the touch line during a game!

[Auzzy]

^ Ha ha, yes at this rate TFC may have the best back line in MLS sometime in the next 200 years. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, so far there are many MLS defensive lineups MUCH better than TFC. Hopefully O'Dea can help, Doneil can grow, etc and things will get better.

BTW, isn't it pronounced "O'Dee"?

[sashavukelich]

guys! who gives a crap about Mellberg, we signed friggin Darren O'Dea!!! Let's celebrate that our roster is actually improving!!!

p.s wasting intl' slots on Dutch 4th Division guys like Soolsma just shows how poor Winter managed his roster. mariner is the 'bawss'

[Ajax TFC]

guys! who gives a crap about Mellberg, we signed friggin Darren O'Dea!!! Let's celebrate that our roster is actually improving!!!

p.s wasting intl' slots on Dutch 4th Division guys like Soolsma just shows how poor Winter managed his roster. mariner is the 'bawss'
:picard::picard::picard::picard:

[West220Side]

guys! who gives a crap about Mellberg, we signed friggin Darren O'Dea!!! Let's celebrate that our roster is actually improving!!!

p.s wasting intl' slots on Dutch 4th Division guys like Soolsma just shows how poor Winter managed his roster. mariner is the 'bawss'

Soolsma was a great find. Who played poorly in his first match, and then began to grow an understanding of the league defenders and had no problem beating them many times. He also had no problem finding Danny Koev' in the box game after game. Not to mention his goal away in LA to send us into the semi-finals. If you're going to mention poor Winter signings try something like Eddy Viator, Elbekay Bouchiba, Javier Martina or Leandre Griffit & Andy Iro.

Anyways on-topic, well who are we kidding, not expecting much more on-topic discussion since signings are probably all finished for the year for us.

[Oldtimer]

guys! who gives a crap about Mellberg, we signed friggin Darren O'Dea!!! Let's celebrate that our roster is actually improving!!

Let's give him a few games before we start thinking he's "THE ANSWER" to TFC's defensive woes. Everybody who's been brought in for years have been touted as the solution. I'm not buying any of it. IF he's still good and IF he can successfully make the transition to MLS and IF he actually cares to play (unlike Laurent Robert), and IF those "character issues" that we've already heard of don't get in the way, and IF he meshes well with the team, then MAYBE there is a solution coming. Drinking the ML$E Koolaid, however is most certainly NOT helpful.

[Dub Narcotic]

I don't mind the O'Dea signing, but we'll see how it goes. They can evaluate him for the rest of the year and then decide what to do next year. They obviously need one more CB, McKenna would be a great pick, but all options should be kept open to find someone younger. If they can clear some cap space soon, I wouldn't mind if they signed half of that Honduran Olympic team. Smarter MLS franchises have already been snapping those guys up.

[azorean19]

I don't mind the O'Dea signing, but we'll see how it goes. They can evaluate him for the rest of the year and then decide what to do next year. They obviously need one more CB, McKenna would be a great pick, but all options should be kept open to find someone younger. If they can clear some cap space soon, I wouldn't mind if they signed half of that Honduran Olympic team. Smarter MLS franchises have already been snapping those guys up.


unlikely, Honduras is in Central America, a part of the world TFC seems to think is a No-go area.