Should Rogers Centre be considered for more special matches?

[Cashcleaner]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game live (had to work), but from what I did see after, the match seemed like a pretty good success for the supporters.

Even though many may have had a few reservations about the shake-up in venue, has anyone's minds been changed? Would we like to see more "big" games played at the dome?

[Shakes McQueen]

Absolutely. All of the major sports news venues were talking about the game, and giving rave reviews to the atmosphere.

We should take any chance we get, to put TFC on a bigger stage.

- Scott

[Yohan]

Turf, no fucking way. Grass, I'm cool with it for special games only

[JavierMartini]

i like this, next time though.

HAVE A SLOGAN ON THE VIDEOBOARD

"WAIT UNTIL KICKOFF TO THROW STREAMERS"

also the dj was aggravating, let the supporters build up the atmosphere.

as for playing black & yellow :picard:....no comment.

[Couchy81]

Turf, no fucking way. Grass, I'm cool with it for special games only

yea the first thing i said when i saw the field was what the hell is that sorry excuse for a pitch. old cricket pitch maybe? pathetic. grass or nothing next time.

[J .]

BMO is our home ground and the product of support you saw at the Dome was from all the efforts put in to having our own place to play. If anything MLSE and the city should have plans designed so in the future we can have the games there. It was a great moment but it should be repeated at our home.

[denime]

NO,BMO is Home .It was great night,but playing on natural grass in smaller more intimidating venue like BMO is better for TFC.

[razor787]

I say maybe. As long as they install grass for the game, im all for it. The atmosphere was amazing, and its great to have our team being the one surrounded by all the buzz. The more exposure the better.

[ouderwien]

Only if they bring in grass. But also the timing will be tough to with Blue Jay season running through the summer.

[Fort York Redcoat]

yea the first thing i said when i saw the field was what the hell is that sorry excuse for a pitch. old cricket pitch maybe? pathetic. grass or nothing next time.

Nothing then. Natural grass is an expense they will pass on to the customer. It's just how they operate. So factor in saying goodbye to a $20 ticket.

Scheduling. Pre MLS season is the only time the Rogers Centre can accommodate giving TFC a date. Otherwise it's Blue Jays till October (Plus concerts etc), then Argos once a week maybe so post season matches would be a stretch.

I'd prefer BMO for any game but I'm happy that this weeks match was a success.

Song idea for the 24th v San Jose:

k6JpVmZb4bI

Sub "in Baby's Arms" for

"at BMO FIELD"

[ginkster88]

If was deafening in there, especially after each goal and for kickoff. Really something special that you can't get a BMO.

[Canary10]

I actually think the BMO atmosphere is still better. Where I sat the chanting didn't really come through and any attempts to start it in our section didn't work. It was a good night but BMO beats it hands down in every respect for me.

[JuliquE]

Turf, no fucking way. Grass, I'm cool with it for special games only
!!!!

[TorCanSoc]

This will be the venue for all CCL March games.

However, it may be five years before we're here again. We have to take them by surprise in L.A. on Wednesday.

[Carts]

If we made the CCL Final or the MLS Cup Final, I wouldn't mind heading back to the Rogers Centre - but that's really it...

If we start doing it for quarterfinals, playoff games, etc - it will lose that special feel...

Even next year, lets say we're in the ccl quarterfinal again - no Rogers Centre (I know date & weather are a factor, I'm taking 'perfect world' scenario here) as we've "been there done that"...

Now, MLS Cup final, we're in it, we're hosting it via a better record than our opposition, then I think maybe we go back...

Wednesday night was SPECIAL - it was MAGICAL... Even Forrest was caught up into it chirping Bruce Arena on the broadcast etc...

And for the record, prior to the game/announcement, I was 100% against the Rogers Centre...

If we're in a Cup Final, and only a cup final, I'd like another night like Wednesday - but if they do it for every 'big' game (playoff, semi-final etc) it will lose the special feeling quickly and be 'just another game indoors on the plastic stuff'...

Carts...

[Whoop]

As fun as Wednesday was, I say no.

[Ben - D.O.W.]

Wow - 13 / 14 / 14 - talk about a devisive issue.

[Chris Wren]

For an MLS Cup Final that we're in, or the CCL final, I would be up for it. Also, on the massive condition that a real surface be installed for the game. It has been done before.

The Dome can be a madhouse at times, as evidenced by Wednesday's crowd. If TFC can get a winning team together people will jump on board the bandwagon and filling it for big matches won't be an impossible task.

The Jays sold out their home opener in an hour this year. Anyone who has been to the home opener knows how crazy it is in there every year. TFC could have more big time atmosphere games at the Dome.

[TFCBarrie]

No. It was a terrible experience you couldn't hear the supporters, the sound gets sucked out, it looks terrible, it's not intimidating at all, they'll never use real grass. Leave it at BMO.

[JonO]

^ I agree. I was sitting about mid-pitch in the 200 level and other than a general buzz, I couldn't figure out anything from the south end. Did you guys even sing the national anthem, 'cause I was listening for it...

[Auzzy]

Really tough question. The game & atmosphere at the Dome was much better than I expected. But the plastic turf is lousy. (Is that seriously the same stuff they use for the Argos games, which I read in one of the news articles? Does it look that crappy for Argos games?)

Getting temporary grass at this time of year is always going to be very tough. You have to ship it in from Florida or something like that: add that to the ticket prices. Plus temp grass can often be pretty lousy: imagine if someone breaks an ankle on a strip of temp grass that has come up?

Would new/better plastic turf help? Who would pay for it? I also think temporary plastic stuff is always risky -- more likely to have the problems with the seams. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if they avoided watering the turf on Wednesday (which might have helped) because they had to roll it up immediately after the game, to get ready for the Spring Fling event at the Dome. Putting wet Astro Turf into storage can't be a good idea.

Winterizing BMO would help: heated bathrooms, insulated pipes -- and that's probably needed anyway, even for MLS games. A roof would help with the sound & the weather.

But what if Wednesday's weather had been like two days earlier, or a bit worse? Low of -13? Add some snow? Or close to 0, but with freezing rain? I think many people wouldn't show at BMO, and the players are also more likely to injure themselves in that weather, especially in pre-season form.

I would probably still prefer BMO Field, but it's a hard choice to make.

[Roogsy]

Nope.

[JonO]

^^ The question is about "more special matches". I think they should all be at BMO unless there is a serious concern about the weather (like this game)

[Auzzy]

Nope.

Although I would tend to agree, what if we have a CCL game in February (which has happened in previous years)? A normal Toronto February, that is?

[Fort York Redcoat]

For an MLS Cup Final that we're in, or the CCL final, I would be up for it. Also, on the massive condition that a real surface be installed for the game. It has been done before.



Yes and those games with real grass have had very different price points.

Not that I want to rehash attendance with you, Chris, but it would suffer for it.

[jimiv]

BMO is my choice,but I fear that Rogers Centre will start hosting more games.

I just hope they include new carpet in their budget if this is the route they go.

[Roogsy]

I was going to vote "as a last resort" but I chose not to because I would not willingly want to go to the Skydome.

If it is a must, then I guess in more accurate terms anything can be a "last resort", but I'd prefer not to actually encourage that choice. The climate in Canada pretty much makes the choice for us, nothing we can do about that.

[ensco]

Poll is kind of irrelevant IMHO. There is no way that they are not going to do it again. It was a massive commercial success. Do they have the good sense to wait for a truly special event like a cup final?

I don't think I need to answer that one.

[geordie77]

love BMO Field as its grass & outside BUT would any other team apart from Beckham & friends be able to fill the Rogers Centre? if it was not LA & Beckham say RSL, would the game have sold out? was it Beckham that sold the game out? it was great to see & hear people talk about TFC in a postive way & after 20 minutes, I was in a dream but then I woke up. a move in the right direction. the game brought back pride to TFC & its supporters. the supporters section was fantastic. cheers

[C.Ronaldo]

only if the supporters get miked
I was right beside you guys and couldnt here a thing.

ALthough I did go home with no voice and my ears ringing like i just came back from a club, so it must have been loud.


BMO + ROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David_Oliveira]

I think that had it not been for the potential weather, the game would never be at the dome. But something good did come out of it an additional 27000 saw the reds. If even 10000 were first timers, I think it helps create a new buzz about the team. The whole of the dome was excited Wednesday. That is good for the team.
I don't like the dome But as a last resort, sure

[Chris Wren]

For people concerned with not hearing the supporters specific lyrics, I feel that is because there was just a general raucous vibe. It was lively in there. You can't expect everyone to want to sing all game long. Reaction to the play was specifically good. There were lots of rounds of applause for good play and lots of angry reaction to the officials.

It might have been bad if you could only hear the supporters. That would have meant everybody else was quiet. I've been to Jays games when 100 people can be heard chanting in there. There was so much noise in there on Wednesday only TFC clap clap clap could be made out by everyone in the stadium. It was chaos in a good way, in my opinion.

In regards to the turf, it was bad. Debating the cost of everything related to bringing in a temporary grass field is pointless. Too many unknowns. I will say that if they doubled the cost of my ticket, I wouldn't complain.

[TOBOR !]

what happens for the semis ? Do we go back to BMO for that ? The weather will be better (theoretically). The season will be underway... or is it too late ? Can't put Wednesday night back in the can. Demand for tickets would definitely fill the Skydome - how the heck can you go back to BMO ?

But baseball season will be under way soon as well. Plus there are other events booked into the Dome. What if they can't we can't hold it in the Dome due to some boyscout jamboree ?

[Couchy81]

Don Garber's stance:

"Garber acknowledged that the artificial turf did not help things. Galaxy coach Bruce Arena called it (slightly) dangerous, among other adjectives.

"My heart was in my mouth a couple of times when some players looked like they were stumbling on what seemed to be seams on the field," Garber said.

"They looked at laying grass and it was not feasible. The surface did not look to me like it was the type of new FieldTurf that we hope to have our players play on. I think we would look to address that issue if we were to go back there (to the Rogers Centre) for a game -- not this year but I think in future years.

"I think we can do better.""

from - http://tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=389815

[TFCBarrie]

For people concerned with not hearing the supporters specific lyrics, I feel that is because there was just a general raucous vibe. It was lively in there. You can't expect everyone to want to sing all game long. Reaction to the play was specifically good. There were lots of rounds of applause for good play and lots of angry reaction to the officials.

It might have been bad if you could only hear the supporters. That would have meant everybody else was quiet. I've been to Jays games when 100 people can be heard chanting in there. There was so much noise in there on Wednesday only TFC clap clap clap could be made out by everyone in the stadium. It was chaos in a good way, in my opinion.

In regards to the turf, it was bad. Debating the cost of everything related to bringing in a temporary grass field is pointless. Too many unknowns. I will say that if they doubled the cost of my ticket, I wouldn't complain.

i get the "raucous vibe" most of the stadium was feeling, but people in my section were being told to "sit down and shut up" to which more experienced tfc-goers would get upset and yell back and it was getting pretty contentious by the end, it was ridiculous and not enjoyable in the least. I guess i just feel it wasn't as loud as BMO would have been and the rogers center itself seemed to absorb the rest of the noise and flatten it instead of making it echo and boom.

Like someone said earlier, I couldn't even hear the SG's singing the national anthem and i'm only assuming that they did.

[geordie77]

agreed, howabout making BMO Field a proper ground but who will put up the money?I would love a roof that goes all the way round the ground & link up all the sides with a a second tier but.......that way there will be no need to play at the Rogers Centre. I have spent many a cold games in the south end & seeing all these new stadiums going up but what about BMO, yes we got grass & the north End added a stand but its still not a proper ground.

[ManUtd4ever]

It was a fantastic experience, but Rogers Centre should only be used in the event of future CCL quarter final matches due to weather concerns.

[Brooker]

With their policy of 1 beer at a time? I think not.

[flatpicker]

It was a fantastic experience, but Rogers Centre should only be used in the event of future CCL quarter final matches due to weather concerns.

I feel the same way.
I had a blast at the game, but BMO is home.
The Dome is certainly a good back-up when needed.
Now let's get a roof on BMO! ;)

[geordie77]

what is it going to take to make BMO Field a proper stadium with a roof & second tier? who can & who will pay for it? BMO is a secondary stadium compared to new stadiums, as its City owned, what can TFC do? has our mayor ever attended a TFC game? any idea what it cost TFC to rent the Rogers Centre & were the concession sales split? how the idiot who throw the beer can at Beckham being caught & if you know him/her give them up as its taken over the actual event.

[Carefree]

If they keep it to one "special" game per year I wouldn't mind. Though it should be clear that our regular home is BMO.

The Alouettes do that in Montreal every year, where they have one game per season played at the Olympic Stadium and the rest at Molson stadium. A 20,000-seater stadium is usually a better venue to watch a game, but once in a while it's fun to be swallowed up by a monster crowd. It's great for marketing purposes too, and the added exposure will certainly lead to an increase in new supporters.

[james]

sky dome only if they were to make it to a semi-final or final! Otherwise BMO. Also the more games you play at the sky dome harder it is to sell it out. It wont look so great if there is only 20,000 rather then 47,000 fans there.

[Alonso]

Turf, no fucking way. Grass, I'm cool with it for special games only

This about sums it up for me.

Grass trumps all imo, unless its Dec to March.

[Commie Red]

The SkyDome is an acoustic dead-zone -- and therefore anathema to supporter culture. Beyond creating a generalized din it is almost pointless to try and fill it with chants or songs. It is where cheers go to die. I was in 118 and -- with very few exceptions -- could not hear nor get in sync with what was coming from supporters in 119 (let alone in 120 or beyond) despite our best efforts.

Even the sports' commentator on CBC, as much as he was impressed by the whole event, specifically noted that he missed our voices and leadership -- because of the acoustics at SkyDome.

That said: I had a great time and it was a good one-off. However, playing games there on a regular bases would probably kill us as a supporter's group to be reckoned with.

[__wowza]

who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give out beer in cans!?

[Auzzy]

i get the "raucous vibe" most of the stadium was feeling, but people in my section were being told to "sit down and shut up" to which more experienced tfc-goers would get upset and yell back and it was getting pretty contentious by the end, it was ridiculous and not enjoyable in the least. I guess i just feel it wasn't as loud as BMO would have been and the rogers center itself seemed to absorb the rest of the noise and flatten it instead of making it echo and boom.

Like someone said earlier, I couldn't even hear the SG's singing the national anthem and i'm only assuming that they did.

Wow, who was telling you to sit down, and especially to shut up? Other fans, or stadium staff? Never heard any rule that you have to be quiet at any stadium.

[scooter]

it was a great night
plastic was dangerous for players though -- we got lucky no major injuries
bmo is first choice always and bringing turf into skydome is big bucks so like pete says say goodbye to cheap seats

why dont they take all the money that would be spent on grass for a day over the next ten years and put a roof on BMO ?

[werewolf]

Under extreme and very limited circumstances it would be great. Even if we make the Quarterfinals next year, if it were to be against Santos Laguna or Real Esteli etc. I don't think it would have sold out. If we ever make the final, I think SkyDome would be a good place to be.

Also, if the national team ever makes the final round of World Cup Qualifying, some of those 5 games (specifically Mexico and USA) could be at SkyDome.

[ouderwien]

Wow, who was telling you to sit down, and especially to shut up? Other fans, or stadium staff? Never heard any rule that you have to be quiet at any stadium.

I dealt with that in my section as well. The secruity staff came down everytime we would stand up and sing saying that "there were children behind us that couldn't see"

I politely obliged understanding that logic but it sure dampened my experience.

[Fort York Redcoat]

who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give out beer in cans!?

Yeah I was surprised to see cans too. I thought at first that they were sneaking them in....then I saw the bland. I mean- BRAND.:D

[TOBOR !]

Some folk only go to watch a spectacle. Others go to participate.

I had no trouble getting 2 cans of beer at a time, and managed to not throw the empties on the field. Same as 47K+ other people.

[TFCBarrie]

Wow, who was telling you to sit down, and especially to shut up? Other fans, or stadium staff? Never heard any rule that you have to be quiet at any stadium.

no, the staff was great, it was other fans, who i'm assuming were new to the experience. There was myself and my friends, as well as a couple other groups in our area. People were not happy at all with us.

[TorCanSoc]

who the fuck thought it was a good idea to give out beer in cans!?

Good point!! I never thought of that. Where T-F did douche guy get the can from?

One drunken idiot, and Toronto's been scorched.

Can't wait for TFC's opening game, its puck give-away day !!!!!! :)

[ngrunberg]

If we made the CCL Final or the MLS Cup Final, I wouldn't mind heading back to the Rogers Centre - but that's really it...

If we start doing it for quarterfinals, playoff games, etc - it will lose that special feel...

Even next year, lets say we're in the ccl quarterfinal again - no Rogers Centre (I know date & weather are a factor, I'm taking 'perfect world' scenario here) as we've "been there done that"...

Now, MLS Cup final, we're in it, we're hosting it via a better record than our opposition, then I think maybe we go back...

Wednesday night was SPECIAL - it was MAGICAL... Even Forrest was caught up into it chirping Bruce Arena on the broadcast etc...

And for the record, prior to the game/announcement, I was 100% against the Rogers Centre...

If we're in a Cup Final, and only a cup final, I'd like another night like Wednesday - but if they do it for every 'big' game (playoff, semi-final etc) it will lose the special feeling quickly and be 'just another game indoors on the plastic stuff'...

Carts...

10000% Agree with this

[Auzzy]

Another thing to consider: the Jays have hinted at putting in real grass permanently.

Note: I'll believe it when I see it. With no initial consideration given to that in the Dome, I think that would be extremely difficult: drainage/water supply etc; needing to build up the soil & grass above the concrete = impact on viewing angles; weight of all that on the building structure; moisture impact on the dome & the rest of the building to have grass growing indoors over the winter; cost of the special lighting required to keep the grass alive throughout the year; loss of other income (don't think you could have the monster trucks, or the "Spring Fling" with full carnival rides setup, or a bunch of other things, if there's real grass).

But even if they could get it to work, don't get your hopes up about playing footy in there on real grass. I think real grass would prevent any type of footy being played (TFC, CFL, whatever) because the stands couldn't be movable over real grass -- right? (Recently the Argos were already getting worried about real grass going into the dome.)

WTF would we do if the Jays switch to real grass, ban football, and we have some CCL game in early February?

[TOBOR !]

Another thing to consider: the Jays have hinted at putting in real grass permanently.

Beeston said it'll never happen.

[Mulder]

Another thing to consider: the Jays have hinted at putting in real grass permanently.

Note: I'll believe it when I see it. With no initial consideration given to that in the Dome, I think that would be extremely difficult: drainage/water supply etc; needing to build up the soil & grass above the concrete = impact on viewing angles; weight of all that on the building structure; moisture impact on the dome & the rest of the building to have grass growing indoors over the winter; cost of the special lighting required to keep the grass alive throughout the year; loss of other income (don't think you could have the monster trucks, or the "Spring Fling" with full carnival rides setup, or a bunch of other things, if there's real grass).

But even if they could get it to work

I've brought this up a couple times, as to why excuses above are very easily overcome.

Arizona Cardinals Stadium and Houston's Stadium.
Both are 2 completely different examples on how to put grass inside a domed stadium. While still not having to worry about growing grass indoors. or drainage and whatnot.

While I don't think a fully moveable field is possible at the Rogers Center. Doing what Houston does, which is grow the grass on trays, and send them to the stadium. Is probably the route they would take.

[Auzzy]

Beeston said it'll never happen.

Oh, I didn't hear that follow-up. Too bad for the Jays, I think it would be nice for them (ignoring all the other implications).

[T.O TILL I DIE]

Anyone else get goosbumps when you seen the streamers being thrown at a corner kick! i dont care what anyone says i love seeing that it reminds me of the good ole days at BMO 2007, 08! bring it back to BMO!

[ensco]

Beeston said it'll never happen.

I've heard Anthopoulus say the same thing. He thinks (you can't make this stuff up) that if you put in green coloured seats, it would give the park a much more natural atmosphere. So many sports execs think they can sell anything. Ever since I heard him say it, I've decided he isn't the answer, even though everyone loves him right now.

[Ajax TFC]

Aren't the Jays trying to get grass put in? Anyone know where that stands right now?

[Nodoubtguy]

As much as I had fun....BMO is home.

[trane]

BMO is home. BUT clearly we can get 40,000+ for big games. I say use rogers for these games, but we need to expand BMO to 40,000.

[Code Red]

The only future games I'd like to see at the Rogers Centre would be the following:

1) MLS Cup Final (if we were ever to qualify)
2) Another CCL quarter-final, semi-final or final match

All other matches should remain at BMO. For Goodness Sake though, give us a roof!

[Darlofletch]

really hope not. I know momntreal have signed a deal with the big o for a few games every year, and I can see tfc wanting to do the home opener every year at skydome, kick off the season with a bacng kind of thing.

really really hope they don't though.

[Laurignano]

Yes, only if the supporter clubs have a lead capo to help unite chanting and we have a grass field. I'd love to have another 45,000 fans cheering on our boys in big matches..other then that rest of matches should be at BMO field.

[TFCBarrie]

This is not directed at anyone, but I don't understand the logic of having it Rogers for "big" games. Is BMO our home or not? If you answered yes, then you should never think a game should be held at Roger's center. Manchester United wouldn't play a Champions League quarter-final at wembley, scale that down as small as you want to any team in the world, teams should play their games in their homes, imho.

[Bars92]

only for CONCACAF or TFC v Impact playoff game. I can't see getting that many casual fans on a consistent basis. On Wednesday night I though 'this will never happen again'.

[TOBOR !]

This is not directed at anyone, but I don't understand the logic of having it Rogers for "big" games. Is BMO our home or not? If you answered yes, then you should never think a game should be held at Roger's center. Manchester United wouldn't play a Champions League quarter-final at wembley, scale that down as small as you want to any team in the world, teams should play their games in their homes, imho.

I don't know why not, save their fans from having to take the train to Manchester !

HEY-OH !

[trane]

^ ahahahahah. Good one.

[Belfast_Boy]

said maybe.

but they need to do something about that plastic crap.

if we did this for the quarter final guess how cool the semi will be!

[trane]

This is not directed at anyone, but I don't understand the logic of having it Rogers for "big" games. Is BMO our home or not? If you answered yes, then you should never think a game should be held at Roger's center. Manchester United wouldn't play a Champions League quarter-final at wembley, scale that down as small as you want to any team in the world, teams should play their games in their homes, imho.


Or home is Toronto. Rogers is in Toronto. Listen not that I do not prefer BMO, by a long shot. But the reality is that BMO is a small stadium, in a city that could see crowds for football matches over 30000 on a regular basis, and 40000 and over several times a year.


The use of Rogers has to be and will be an exeption but there is nothing wrong with it. Long term BMO needs to be expanded.


AND for the record, it is not that I was crazy about Rogers, it is just the best we got in light of the numbers.

[trane]

said maybe.

but they need to do something about that plastic crap.

if we did this for the quarter final guess how cool the semi will be!

FUCK YES.

[Belfast_Boy]

I don't know why not, save their fans from having to take the train to Manchester !

HEY-OH !

Zing!

[Belfast_Boy]

FUCK YES.


it looked terrible from the stands. then I watched it on tv last night and it looked worse. can't have professional footballers on that shit.

[denime]

said maybe.

but they need to do something about that plastic crap.

if we did this for the quarter final guess how cool the semi will be!

What did we do?
Banners and what else?

Except general noise there was nothing going on inside Rogers Center.You couldn't hear a section beside you what they were chanting let alone other side.

To have more ppl in stands,why?What's the use of 40+K when nothing is going on,streamers,fireworks, really?Is that what makes people want more games at Rogers Center?

I hope this was 1st and last game at Rogers this year,I have no problem to play 1/4 finals ONLY,rest should be BMO.

BMO is far more intimidating than Rogers Center will ever be.Stands are to far from pitch and pitch was 1st class CRAP,except 47K,there was nothing special comparing to BMO.

BMO IS HOME and ALL Games should be played there.

[Bars92]

The banners were epically epic tho and the streamers weren't bad either. Those banners wouldn't even fit at BMO. For the chance to get 47k at a soccer game in this province, I think the Rogers Centre should be considered for the one-off big matches. Maybe once every two years. :scarf:

[Huyton]

Those FRS radios are cheap...mike one of the capos, publish the channel and the sub-channel, and have all the other capos lead a section.

[Belfast_Boy]

What did we do?
Banners and what else?

Except general noise there was nothing going on inside Rogers Center.You couldn't hear a section beside you what they were chanting let alone other side.

To have more ppl in stands,why?What's the use of 40+K when nothing is going on,streamers,fireworks, really?Is that what makes people want more games at Rogers Center?

I hope this was 1st and last game at Rogers this year,I have no problem to play 1/4 finals ONLY,rest should be BMO.

BMO is far more intimidating than Rogers Center will ever be.Stands are to far from pitch and pitch was 1st class CRAP,except 47K,there was nothing special comparing to BMO.

BMO IS HOME and ALL Games should be played there.

Banners and what else? as someone that worked on a couple of them I take great pride in what we did. doing something that size is very cool. we couldn't fit them in bmo so for a special game why not go big.
Also, I think its a pretty cool gift to introduce somone to football. I brought 3 virgins to the game and it looks like at least two of them are getting interested and want to come back. it was fun, it was great to see that many people behind our team.
before they annouced the location i was firmly against the dome. this game was a great experience IMO. I don't have a problem having big games like this at the dome if they fix the pitch.

[Waggy]

Aren't the Jays trying to get grass put in? Anyone know where that stands right now?

It's a pipe dream. Beaston said given the age of the dome and the cost of that sort of upgrade it'd be ridiculous to put in grass instead of just waiting for a new stadium (most last 30 years nowadays, so the clocks ticking down on the Dome)


My vote: I have no problem with every CCL qf match being at the dome. Season opener, after a long winter, against a bigger club usually. However that is IT (outside of CCL finals anyways). No MLS competition should ever be at the Dome. If we make the MLS finals and the high seed gets to pick venue and that's us, THEN I would consider it, but that's IT. So ya. MLS final, CCL final, or situation like wednesday. No other situation. However, expand BMO to 30k and put some roofs over the stands you say?

[Chris Wren]

What did we do?
Banners and what else?

Except general noise there was nothing going on inside Rogers Center.You couldn't hear a section beside you what they were chanting let alone other side.

To have more ppl in stands,why?What's the use of 40+K when nothing is going on,streamers,fireworks, really?Is that what makes people want more games at Rogers Center?

I hope this was 1st and last game at Rogers this year,I have no problem to play 1/4 finals ONLY,rest should be BMO.

BMO is far more intimidating than Rogers Center will ever be.Stands are to far from pitch and pitch was 1st class CRAP,except 47K,there was nothing special comparing to BMO.

BMO IS HOME and ALL Games should be played there.

25 000 more people making for an intense spectacle is the reason. It's not complicated.

I'm baffled as to why people need to hear singing so much. The vibe in the Rogers Centre was awesome. Honestly, some of these posts read like "I wish everybody could have shut up so we could have provided them with some atmosphere".

[Heart of Stone]

Can't we now expect to be in or close to in the CONCALAFF Quarterfinals every year now?

[Fort York Redcoat]

25 000 more people making for an intense spectacle is the reason. It's not complicated.

I'm baffled as to why people need to hear singing so much. The vibe in the Rogers Centre was awesome. Honestly, some of these posts read like "I wish everybody could have shut up so we could have provided them with some atmosphere".

No Chris. It really is as simple people wishing they could be a part of something bigger. It sounds bigger with voices united. It's not for everyone but it's a lot of people here.

And I think you know by the stadium that we were not the majority. Just here.

[billyfly]

It's a pipe dream. Beaston said given the age of the dome and the cost of that sort of upgrade it'd be ridiculous to put in grass instead of just waiting for a new stadium (most last 30 years nowadays, so the clocks ticking down on the Dome)


My vote: I have no problem with every CCL qf match being at the dome. Season opener, after a long winter, against a bigger club usually. However that is IT (outside of CCL finals anyways). No MLS competition should ever be at the Dome. If we make the MLS finals and the high seed gets to pick venue and that's us, THEN I would consider it, but that's IT. So ya. MLS final, CCL final, or situation like wednesday. No other situation. However, expand BMO to 30k and put some roofs over the stands you say?


Yeah. Beeston backtracked mightily after his initial quote.

[ryan]

Can't we now expect to be in or close to in the CONCALAFF Quarterfinals every year now?

Not really. The shitecaps and limpact are improving clubs that will give us a very strong go at just getting the NCC won every year going forward in the foreseeable future.

With the new 24 team format it's going to be tougher to get out of the group stage since it needs to be won. Yeah there's only 3 teams in the group, but if we get locked in with Seattle/LA/Top Mexican side....that's tough going.

[Heart of Stone]

For once I agree with Cathal Kelly, Wednesday night was an "occasion". I'll never forget it.

[cmonyoureds]

NO WAY. Tell those extra 20 or so thousand we play meaningful group stage games as well - AT BMO FIELD. Try showing up for those, not just a big "showcase event".

[james]

Or home is Toronto. Rogers is in Toronto. Listen not that I do not prefer BMO, by a long shot. But the reality is that BMO is a small stadium, in a city that could see crowds for football matches over 30000 on a regular basis, and 40000 and over several times a year.


The use of Rogers has to be and will be an exeption but there is nothing wrong with it. Long term BMO needs to be expanded.


AND for the record, it is not that I was crazy about Rogers, it is just the best we got in light of the numbers.

i think you guys over sale TFC sometimes. exspand BMO field to 40,000 is not needed nor is it even a good idea. You make BMO field to 40,000 capacity means you are stuck with that for possibly decades, you exspect to get 40,000+ for every single TFC game, including Canada Championship and Concacaf matches?? We were only getting 10,000 fans for some Concacaf matches prior to the LA game, we also were getting 17, 18, 19 thousand for some League games this year. Ya we could sell out some games at a 40,000 BMO field but it will look like complete shit when you only have 10,000-20,000 for other games. An exspansion to BMO field that size just isn't needed at this point. If anything was to change about BMO id say just add some roofs, inclose the corners, maybe make the south end and North end a bit bigger, maybe add some more box offices above the east stand and renovate to improve the interior work of the stadium. THey could probably do all that by making the stadium 25-27,000 capacity and i don't think it would be a good idea to go any bigger then that at this time or in the next 10 years.

[deltox]

expand BMO. it prolly costs too much to rent rogers centre and its near impossible to book dates.

[goodyear]

Totally gut BMO and build a real stadium. Toronto FC supporters deserve it. 25000 seats. Cozy, with a roof all the way around the seats.

BMO is just pretty much portable stands. It was probably built as a temporary measure.

After that we dont need Rogers Centre.

[james]

This is not directed at anyone, but I don't understand the logic of having it Rogers for "big" games. Is BMO our home or not? If you answered yes, then you should never think a game should be held at Roger's center. Manchester United wouldn't play a Champions League quarter-final at wembley, scale that down as small as you want to any team in the world, teams should play their games in their homes, imho.

i do think BMO should be home for just about every single game except the odd really big match (fianl- semi final examples) but they do play at wembley for Carling Cup and FA Cup....Championship, League 1 and League 2 finals and semi finals even in passed they even used stadiums like Villa Park and old trafford, and Manchester City home ground for big matches like those. Yes those were called neutral stadiums but really they were just trying to play big games in biggest possible stadiums, which isn't that far off actually then what TFC just did.

[glaze]

The only future games I'd like to see at the Rogers Centre would be the following:

1) MLS Cup Final (if we were ever to qualify)



I thought the final was neutral site (as we hosted it 2 seasons ago?)

I think this event, as noted before, was a perfect storm for MLSE. 1 - they now own Rogers Centre (or at least one of their owners does), 2 - the date made it neccessary to play there, as BMO isn't winterized 3 - They were facing the only opponent that could easily sell the place out.

If it was any other CCL team, they may have had to close off the upper deck.

There were positives. The supporters owned that south end. With the massive banners and flags, the visual impact was stunning. However, I was in 116, and because of the shadows, and the fact that you seemed a mile away from the field, it did lack that sea of red feel that BMO brings.

I think it was great as a one-time event, to put TFC back on the map. I think the fans did a great job. But in the future, lets lobby for a winterized BMO and all further games played there.

[West220Side]

I thought the final was neutral site (as we hosted it 2 seasons ago?)

I think this event, as noted before, was a perfect storm for MLSE. 1 - they now own Rogers Centre (or at least one of their owners does), 2 - the date made it neccessary to play there, as BMO isn't winterized 3 - They were facing the only opponent that could easily sell the place out.

If it was any other CCL team, they may have had to close off the upper deck.

There were positives. The supporters owned that south end. With the massive banners and flags, the visual impact was stunning. However, I was in 116, and because of the shadows, and the fact that you seemed a mile away from the field, it did lack that sea of red feel that BMO brings.

I think it was great as a one-time event, to put TFC back on the map. I think the fans did a great job. But in the future, lets lobby for a winterized BMO and all further games played there.

They changed it this year.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/11/20/big-changes-mls-cup-playoffs-format-2012


The MLS Cup final will no longer be a neutral-site game, according to a plan approved on Saturday by the league’s Board of Governors. Instead, the league’s championship match will be played at the home venue of the participating team with a higher regular-season point total.

[brad]

BMO is our home - has a real pitch, and is far more intimate and I prefer it for those reasons.

However, that game at the Dome had a big game feel that I have never felt at BMO and that was something special IMHO.

I also think the overall noise in the place, even though it wasn't organized was every bit as intimidating as BMO.

[brad]

One other thing - I'd rather not see another game there if it's played on that crap pitch. But remember, putting down real turf is far more expensive, and I suspect it is very unlikely you are going to get the low price point needed to fill the place with real turf.

[denime]

Banners and what else? as someone that worked on a couple of them I take great pride in what we did. doing something that size is very cool. we couldn't fit them in bmo so for a special game why not go big.
Also, I think its a pretty cool gift to introduce somone to football. I brought 3 virgins to the game and it looks like at least two of them are getting interested and want to come back. it was fun, it was great to see that many people behind our team.
before they annouced the location i was firmly against the dome. this game was a great experience IMO. I don't have a problem having big games like this at the dome if they fix the pitch.

And you should be proud,that's why I said banner were great,regardless if we can fit them at BMO or not.still I'm pro BMO for every game.

[Super]

I thought the final was neutral site (as we hosted it 2 seasons ago?)

Not anymore. They changed that. Now the final will be held at the home field of the top remaining seed (see wiki). So we COULD play an MLS cup final at the end of this season. Not sure how likely that is of course, but I'm sure as heck going into this season with that hope. But should we reach the final, then I think that Rogers would be THE place for it. BMO would be cold and windy and nasty, and limited to 23k. Rogers would allow for double that crowd + would remove weather as a factor.

Dynamo Kiev, by the way, is an example of a club with two grounds with one for big games. Rogers should be our big game stadium.

[brad]

expand BMO. it prolly costs too much to rent rogers centre and its near impossible to book dates.

TFC aren't a big enough draw to get those sorts of numbers on a regular occasion. We get around 10k out for CL games there, and there are swaths of empty seats for almost every regular season match at our current capacity. I'd really rather not watch most games in a half empty stadium.

[denime]

25 000 more people making for an intense spectacle is the reason. It's not complicated.

I'm baffled as to why people need to hear singing so much. The vibe in the Rogers Centre was awesome. Honestly, some of these posts read like "I wish everybody could have shut up so we could have provided them with some atmosphere".


No Chris. It really is as simple people wishing they could be a part of something bigger. It sounds bigger with voices united. It's not for everyone but it's a lot of people here.

And I think you know by the stadium that we were not the majority. Just here.

Thanks for answering it,spot on.

And Chris I'll take something like this with my fellow TFC supporters over "buzz' of 40+K at Rogers without the flares of course.

This is how 42K sound when only supporters voices are untied.

SgZ4BEXdlVs


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SgZ4BEXdlVs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[InDa_110]

Stop this stupidity and vote No Way!

(Unless there is ever another game in the first week of March where it is entirely possible to have 15cm of snow) No other exceptions grass or not.

The experience of Wednesday will never be duplicated twice. To continue at the dome for any other games will in essence be what they say about drug usage. You never get as high as the first time, and continuing to try to will lead to a self destructive habit.

BMO is home and this only became an issue because of the post game interview. Day, night, rain, heat, wind, cold, whatever...........the house is on Lakeshore, not Bluejay Way

[Code Red]

Thanks for answering it,spot on.

And Chris I'll take something like this with my fellow TFC supporters over "buzz' of 40+K at Rogers without the flares of course.

This is how 42K sound when only supporters voices are untied.

http://youtu.be/SgZ4BEXdlVs


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SgZ4BEXdlVs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Great vid. Wish we did some jumping at our CCL game. Would have looked really nice if the entire south stand had been jumping at some point.

[nascarguy]

only for games vs la and it must be a sale out

[jazzy]

it's simply a miracle that an antiquated , uncomfortable, sound dampening cement box like the skydome could be brought to such life by US. Thats all that made it an event, seeing so many friends in red,...but half way thru I was longing for BMO field where I can hear and feel the supporters.....just expand bmo slightly and maybe shelters over the crowd for rain.....way to distant from the action , there isn't 1 good seat in the place and not enough standing room......loved the night in spite of the box...IF our games were moved there (not likely , I drop the seasons)

[TorontoGooner]

To get everyone involved we need to ditch the multiple Capos and stick everyone at the same end. It's too much of a boys club. In Europe it works because everyone gets involved, not one particular section. Not being a EuroSnob, just sayin'

[Chris Wren]

Thanks for answering it,spot on.

And Chris I'll take something like this with my fellow TFC supporters over "buzz' of 40+K at Rogers without the flares of course.

This is how 42K sound when only supporters voices are untied.

http://youtu.be/SgZ4BEXdlVs


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SgZ4BEXdlVs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Thanks coach. I've never heard people in unison before.

I love hearing people sing together, I'm just not going to cry about it if it doesn't happen. I'm not going to diminish what did happen because my pipe dream wasn't realized.

There aren't 42 000 people like this in Toronto. You need to realize that this is never going to happen here. If you did embrace the 20 000 that routinely frequent BMO, or the 48 000 who were at Rogers Centre you would see that you're already part of a massive collection of supporters. We just don't act like everyone else.

You can sarcastically mock my word "buzz", but that's what was going on on Wednesday. A great buzz. I could care less if I hear the same songs as every other team on the planet sings. The crowd was awesome and if you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

It's a rare thing to have a chant unified between 112 and 113 at BMO. It sounds good when it happens, but I don't care when it doesn't. Give it 30 seconds and somebody will be trying to start a new song anyway.

Supporting the team doesn't mean 90 minutes of united singing.

[denime]

Thanks coach. I've never heard people in unison before.

I love hearing people sing together, I'm just not going to cry about it if it doesn't happen. I'm not going to diminish what did happen because my pipe dream wasn't realized.

There aren't 42 000 people like this in Toronto. You need to realize that this is never going to happen here. If you did embrace the 20 000 that routinely frequent BMO, or the 48 000 who were at Rogers Centre you would see that you're already part of a massive collection of supporters. We just don't act like everyone else.

You can sarcastically mock my word "buzz", but that's what was going on on Wednesday. A great buzz. I could care less if I hear the same songs as every other team on the planet sings. The crowd was awesome and if you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

It's a rare thing to have a chant unified between 112 and 113 at BMO. It sounds good when it happens, but I don't care when it doesn't. Give it 30 seconds and somebody will be trying to start a new song anyway.

Supporting the team doesn't mean 90 minutes of united singing.

True,because of individuals like you who don't give a damn we can't get anything going,make me wonder why even bother,let's just go to the game and make a bmo new AC during the ML games.

[Chris Wren]

True,because of individuals like you who don't give a damn we can't get anything going,make me wonder why even bother,let's just go to the game and make a bmo new AC during the ML games.

For a moderator you're a real argumentative smart guy. I'm not sure how taking a shot at the Maple Leafs or the ACC proves your point.

It's more that I don't feel a need to disparage my fellow fans because they don't feel like singing the same songs as me or cheering the way I do. Maybe it's time you accept what BMO, and your fellow TFC supporters are all about rather than pining for some fantasy that will never happen.

The biggest problem with unity at BMO is 2 competing supporter groups and a perceived need to always be leading everything.

[brad]

As someone who sits outside of the supporters section, I still say the two main problems with chants catching on around the stadium are that they are too long and complicated for most to pick up, and that they do not go in long enough to catch around the stadium.

BTW - to be clear this isn't meant as critique of what folks in the supporters end are doing, they do a great job of supporting the team.

[jazzy]

For a moderator you're a real argumentative smart guy. I'm not sure how taking a shot at the Maple Leafs or the ACC proves your point.

It's more that I don't feel a need to disparage my fellow fans because they don't feel like singing the same songs as me or cheering the way I do. Maybe it's time you accept what BMO, and your fellow TFC supporters are all about rather than pining for some fantasy that will never happen.

The biggest problem with unity at BMO is 2 competing supporter groups and a perceived need to always be leading everything.

this isn't really the case anymore,...update your fan knowledge if you're being a critic,..127 is now just supporters and most in 112 etc are rpb's/usector fans.....BUT competition creates creative energy often seen in bringing amazing banners . RE witmess wed's event. Those banners were not ALL from the rpb's. The giant toronto football club was an dynamic individual effort from independent supporters who want 1 thing . To contribute and enjoy the wonderful game of football.and no F$#kin politics...and thru more of these supporters efforts we will be eventually a AMAZING home crowd fan base ...it's been what 5 years....apposed to what 100+years, in some countries??..:facepalm: ......you seem to want to be critcal of people enjoying themselves and their team, why?/ sort of glass half empty, yes?....PS I don't sing all that much, just the songs I like but love everyone else doing my work for me,.(sic)...which is selfish on my part but my choice......can you imagine noone singing,..I'm gone!...PS the wife even quicker

[Fort York Redcoat]

For a moderator you're a real argumentative smart guy. I'm not sure how taking a shot at the Maple Leafs or the ACC proves your point.

It's more that I don't feel a need to disparage my fellow fans because they don't feel like singing the same songs as me or cheering the way I do. Maybe it's time you accept what BMO, and your fellow TFC supporters are all about rather than pining for some fantasy that will never happen.

The biggest problem with unity at BMO is 2 competing supporter groups and a perceived need to always be leading everything.

Chris in the end your attitude of live and let live will not convince people here that pipe dreams and fantasies never come true.

I'd much rather use my time finding like minded individuals who want to show support the way I do because I think it more exciting and rewarding than belittling other ways of support or wasting time worrying about things that people throughout our relative short history say

will never happen.

You know what the most uplifting aspect about that word is?

"Never" will be continued to be proven wrong the longer we remain vigilent, passionate and loyal.

Okay enough rabble rousing. I'm clearly over caffeinated.:D

[Davenport]

Never should it be used again unless like last week, it's early in the year and BMO can't be used as the pitch isn't fit to play on....and then only if temp. grass can be intalled and the roof left open.

[Nomad]

I personally loved it at the Rogers Centre but i am not naive enough to think we could get that many people out to most matches.

[TorontoMO]

I get a laugh at those BMO groupies. The kind that think the place is a shrine. It's not a shrine. It was done on the cheap. A place that hasn't seen a play-off game EVER. And it's been a noose around the franchise's neck as it's limited the fan base to the scarf crowd.

Nothing wrong with that. I like scarves and full houses.

But for the big games, like home openers (MTL has sold 45K for it's one this year) you need to grow the fan base by allowing more people to experience the game day product. It's short sighted to demand that the game day fan base remains at 20K. It's actually incredibly selfish to boot.

And it's also self-hating to say "If it wasn't the Galaxy-- they wouldn't have sold 47K" Come on people! Montreal has sold 45K for the Fire FFS! The FIRE. We could sell 45K for the Fire, if the community and ownership put our collective will to do so.

Let's stop being so freaking small town.

[rocker]

I'm of the belief that if the weather is predictably reasonable, and the game is not massive, we play at BMO... But for massive games, like an MLS Cup final, and games where weather could be dismal (Feb/March), play the games at Skydome.

Then we have the best of both worlds... the intimate home grass stadium outdoors when the weather is OK... and the huge stadium for epic spectacles.

[Shway]

I get a laugh at those BMO groupies. The kind that think the place is a shrine. It's not a shrine. It was done on the cheap. A place that hasn't seen a play-off game EVER. And it's been a noose around the franchise's neck as it's limited the fan base to the scarf crowd.

Nothing wrong with that. I like scarves and full houses.

But for the big games, like home openers (MTL has sold 45K for it's one this year) you need to grow the fan base by allowing more people to experience the game day product. It's short sighted to demand that the game day fan base remains at 20K. It's actually incredibly selfish to boot.

And it's also self-hating to say "If it wasn't the Galaxy-- they wouldn't have sold 47K" Come on people! Montreal has sold 45K for the Fire FFS! The FIRE. We could sell 45K for the Fire, if the community and ownership put our collective will to do so.

Let's stop being so freaking small town.


But thats what makes BMO sooooo special:rolleyes:

[Chris Wren]

Chris in the end your attitude of live and let live will not convince people here that pipe dreams and fantasies never come true.

I'd much rather use my time finding like minded individuals who want to show support the way I do because I think it more exciting and rewarding than belittling other ways of support or wasting time worrying about things that people throughout our relative short history say

will never happen.

You know what the most uplifting aspect about that word is?

"Never" will be continued to be proven wrong the longer we remain vigilent, passionate and loyal.

Okay enough rabble rousing. I'm clearly over caffeinated.:D

I'm not being critical. I had a great time. I joined in on some of the songs I heard, as did some of the people around me. I'm not discouraging anything. I just don't think less of people who would rather follow to the flow of play. I thought the crowd was quite good in that regard.

Not everyone is going to want to cheer the same here. There are just too many different cultures. It's not a bad thing, or a good thing, it's just the way it is. If one can't accept that, I feel sorry for their lack of enjoyment.

[ensco]

I get a laugh at those BMO groupies. The kind that think the place is a shrine. It's not a shrine. It was done on the cheap. A place that hasn't seen a play-off game EVER. And it's been a noose around the franchise's neck as it's limited the fan base to the scarf crowd.



You are right but your conclusion is wrong. BMO is the right size for this market. Nobody has ever not gone because they couldn't get tickets. (I mean really, the Leafs world is one where 99% of their fans can never afford to go.)

More broadly, your appeal to rationality is a waste of time. I like BMO because I like BMO. It may be a meccano set but it's our meccano set. Plus, I like the view of the city. I'm also perfectly happy to go to Skydome in March or November.

NY Times columnist wrote this last week: "True sports fandom exists in a realm that precedes individual choice."

[jazzy]

I get a laugh at those BMO groupies. The kind that think the place is a shrine. It's not a shrine. It was done on the cheap. A place that hasn't seen a play-off game EVER. And it's been a noose around the franchise's neck as it's limited the fan base to the scarf crowd.

Nothing wrong with that. I like scarves and full houses.

But for the big games, like home openers (MTL has sold 45K for it's one this year) you need to grow the fan base by allowing more people to experience the game day product. It's short sighted to demand that the game day fan base remains at 20K. It's actually incredibly selfish to boot.

And it's also self-hating to say "If it wasn't the Galaxy-- they wouldn't have sold 47K" Come on people! Montreal has sold 45K for the Fire FFS! The FIRE. We could sell 45K for the Fire, if the community and ownership put our collective will to do so.

Let's stop being so freaking small town.

IT'S about the sightlines and closeness to the action,......and totally uncomfortable sitting areas , which defines skydome...because unfortunately not everyone can buy into supporters section....exactly why I go to Buffalo for the bills and NEVER skydome..........interesting so you are saying the we have so many fans that bmo field will be constantly sold -out this year.....lookin forward to it, then....love my fresh-air and closenees with my friends at the lake

[TorontoMO]

You are right but your conclusion is wrong. BMO is the right size for this market. Nobody has ever not gone because they couldn't get tickets. (I mean really, the Leafs world is one where 99% of their fans can never afford to go.)

More broadly, your appeal to rationality is a waste of time. I like BMO because I like BMO. It may be a meccano set but it's our meccano set. Plus, I like the view of the city. I'm also perfectly happy to go to Skydome in March or November.

NY Times columnist wrote this last week: "True sports fandom exists in a realm that precedes individual choice."

Cool. You enjoy the Suburban Parking Lot Ghetto that is BMO in March or even April. I'd rather see us doing what Montreal is doing. Different strokes for different folks.

And it's not our mecanno set, it's owned by the city, whose prime purpose is the home of our national squad or so I'm told as being the reason why the club will never pay for the expansion or any improvements to the actual stadium.

We can disagree. I think in a market of 4 million people (that is supposedly the greatest soccer market on the planet outside of Wigan) the team should be able to draw in the high 20's/ low 30's with a decent product on the field.

The sad fact is that the team has been sub par for the MLS over the last 5 years- hence resulting in more and more empty seats.

And a truefandom doesn't pay for championship banners.

[Yohan]

^I guess MLSE paid for grass and north stand because they felt generous

[ensco]

^Cool. I get to defend the team/stadium/ownership. This is neat.

Aside from the fact that you have a number of your facts wrong (ie the team did invest millions in grass), I believe you are mistaken as to the depth of interest in MLS in this (or any) market. There is a very limited number of people willing to pay $40 or more p.p. for this product (to remind you, that's what tickets cost for most people).

They could not sell Skydome out for every game even with the pricing they used for the CCL game, the interest just is not there.

If you are saying that you could put Wigan's team in Toronto or NY, and it played in the EPL, and would then draw 40,000 every game, sure.

But this league? You must be kidding.

(If I were the EPL I would be interested someday in poaching the top 5 MLS teams and replacing the Wigans with them in the EPL. Sad to say, from the business POV of the big clubs, there needs to be some resolution about relegation, and all the have not teams in England, and there is no growth in TV over there, they've pushed it to the max. There are teams with big ambition here, and North America is a huge untapped TV market even now. Mind you, hard to imagine anyone in the UK who tried any of this not getting death threats!)

[kodiakTFC]

^Cool. I get to defend the team/stadium/ownership. This is neat.

Aside from the fact that you have a number of your facts wrong (ie the team did invest millions in grass), I believe you are mistaken as to the depth of interest in MLS in this (or any) market. There is a very limited number of people willing to pay $40 or more p.p. for this product (to remind you, that's what tickets cost for most people).

They could not sell Skydome out for every game even with the pricing they used for the CCL game, the interest just is not there.

If you are saying that you could put Wigan's team in Toronto or NY, and it played in the EPL, and would then draw 40,000 every game, sure.

But this league? You must be kidding.

(If I were the EPL I would be interested someday in poaching the top 5 MLS teams and replacing the Wigans with them in the EPL. Sad to say, from the business POV of the big clubs, there needs to be some resolution about relegation, and all the have not teams in England, and there is no growth in TV over there, they've pushed it to the max. There are teams with big ambition here, and North America is a huge untapped TV market even now. Mind you, hard to imagine the people in the UK who took that decision not getting death threats!)

I would definitely agree but I will say that if those leaked BMO Field expansion renders come to fruition and the new seats are priced fairly, I could see TFC averaging 27000-28000.

[ensco]

I would definitely agree but I will say that if those leaked BMO Field expansion renders come to fruition and the new seats are priced fairly, I could see TFC averaging 27000-28000.

I don't. They are drawing 15,000-16,000 ... I have always thought that the BMO expansion was about the Leafs. An annual game in an expanded BMO, with seat prices averaging $200, would bring in around $5-6 million all by itself. I think this plan would be a huge negative for TFC, there'd be acres of empty seats most nights.

[Chris Wren]

I don't. They are drawing 15,000-16,000 ... I have always thought that the BMO expansion was about the Leafs. An annual game in an expanded BMO, with seat prices averaging $200, would bring in around $5-6 million all by itself. I think this plan would be a huge negative for TFC, there'd be acres of empty seats most nights.

Talk about getting your facts right, where do you get the 15-16 000 number? Your head doesn't count as a reliable source.

[Waggy]

Talk about getting your facts right, where do you get the 15-16 000 number? Your head doesn't count as a reliable source.


You haven't noticed the empty seats that have slowly expanded over the past few years? Tickets sold doesn't equal butts in seats. I've gone to plenty of sold out sporting events that had PLENTY of good tickets available. There's a difference between a front office trying to show good sales and keep a tight supply/demand curve, but we know better (think of how much more available a TFC ticket is now than it was a few years ago). If tickets are readilly available in a 22 000 seat stadium what do you think it'd look like in 29? I hope if we can be successful this year and next the demand will be there though. It won't take long to build if the team can show some quality and an ability to compete

[Chris Wren]

You haven't noticed the empty seats that have slowly expanded over the past few years? Tickets sold doesn't equal butts in seats. I've gone to plenty of sold out sporting events that had PLENTY of good tickets available. There's a difference between a front office trying to show good sales and keep a tight supply/demand curve, but we know better (think of how much more available a TFC ticket is now than it was a few years ago). If tickets are readilly available in a 22 000 seat stadium what do you think it'd look like in 29? I hope if we can be successful this year and next the demand will be there though. It won't take long to build if the team can show some quality and an ability to compete

I'm sorry, you just can't make up your own numbers. People might not show up, or show up late, or go home early, but if the tickets are sold they're sold.

In a 22 000 seat stadium, 4000 people not being there is quite a noticeable chunk. Last year I remember a couple times hearing announced crowds of 18 000 plus. That's noticeably less than capacity. We also had very bad weather for most of the first half of the season and 2 games that were canceled mid-way due to inclement weather. None of this lends itself well to "butts in seats" as you put it. I also believe that people won't support a losing team in perpetuity unless that team wears skates.

What I'm saying is you can't make up your own numbers. It would be nice if every time I felt like debating something I referenced numbers that I believed to be true and could use them to reinforce my opinion. Unfortunately, that isn't the way it works.

[Waggy]

I'm sorry, you just can't make up your own numbers. People might not show up, or show up late, or go home early, but if the tickets are sold they're sold.

In a 22 000 seat stadium, 4000 people not being there is quite a noticeable chunk. Last year I remember a couple times hearing announced crowds of 18 000 plus. That's noticeably less than capacity. We also had very bad weather for most of the first half of the season and 2 games that were canceled mid-way due to inclement weather. None of this lends itself well to "butts in seats" as you put it.

What I'm saying is you can't make up your own numbers. It would be nice if every time I felt like debating something I referenced numbers that I believed to be true and could use them to reinforce my opinion. Unfortunately, that isn't the way it works.

Who cares if its 50 seats that scalpers/season ticket holders cant even give away for 4000? There's still a huge huge gap between 22000 and 29 000. The fact that the supply>demand at 22000 seats, by ANY number, says that adding 6 or 7000 more seats to the supply isn't going to help anything, and would probably be difficult to move. It's not like MLSE would make things cheap (consider how much more the north end costs than the south end). It'd be one thing if they redid BMO to seat 30-35k and had 10-15 000 tickets priced under 20 bucks like on wed, but that's just not likely. The odds are it'd cost double, if not more. You think TFC can draw 30k people on a sat afternoon going against the ressurgent Jays (where tickets can be had for $13 or $15) when the cheapest available ticket will be 30-40 dollars? D

on't get cought up on numbers. It's all supply/demand. In years 1 and 2 demand was way way way above supply. Year 3 it was about even, years 4 and 5 supply has steadilly increased over demand. It'll be interesting to see what happens this year after wed.

[Chris Wren]

What I'm saying is you have to speak in facts. Making up numbers doesn't work.

If this team wins consistently I believe there is a sufficient fan base to make BMO as big as the Home Depot Centre. If it sells 20 000 in a 27-29 000 seater for lesser matches and sells out for bigger matches I'd be okay with that.

[Dbl_D]

NO,BMO is Home .It was great night,but playing on natural grass in smaller more intimidating venue like BMO is better for TFC. +1

the site lines, as well, were crap in the Dome if your paying for the expensive seats on the sidelines... ill sit in the cold and my seats any day... though I do understand why playing in mid-march in the dome is better for the average fan

[Waggy]

What I'm saying is you have to speak in facts. Making up numbers doesn't work.

If this team wins consistently I believe there is a sufficient fan base to make BMO as big as the Home Depot Centre. If it sells 20 000 in a 27-29 000 seater for lesser matches and sells out for bigger matches I'd be okay with that.


If you expect a lot of hard factual evidence and well reasoned arguments you sir are clearly in the wrong place :lol:. It's hyperbole, ignore the number and look at the point being made. No need to get angry about it. We're all making up numbers, you can make up a statistic to prove anything. Fourthy percent of all people know that.

[JavierMartini]

A 30,000 seat bmo would sell out.

-The problem is pricing, not people.

-Pricing for the product on the field is not level.

-This city is soccer crazy, not idiotic.

[Beach_Red]

What I'm saying is you have to speak in facts. Making up numbers doesn't work.

If this team wins consistently I believe there is a sufficient fan base to make BMO as big as the Home Depot Centre. If it sells 20 000 in a 27-29 000 seater for lesser matches and sells out for bigger matches I'd be okay with that.

Yes, if the team wins consistently it will sell more tickets. There was a time in this city that Jays tickets were as hard to come by as Leafs tickets.

But this is a salary-cap league so winning consistently will be very tough. Maybe first we should have one winning season and then see how it goes.

[Waggy]

A 30,000 seat bmo would sell out.

-The problem is pricing, not people.

-Pricing for the product on the field is not level.

-This city is soccer crazy, not idiotic.


This x100000. Build an extra tier above the south end and fill in the corners there, that should add a few thousand seats, then charge 10-15 bucks a pop for them. Would sell out every game, would be LOUD. And a lot of fun

[jazzy]

Cool. You enjoy the Suburban Parking Lot Ghetto that is BMO in March or even April. I'd rather see us doing what Montreal is doing. Different strokes for different folks.

And it's not our mecanno set, it's owned by the city, whose prime purpose is the home of our national squad or so I'm told as being the reason why the club will never pay for the expansion or any improvements to the actual stadium.

We can disagree. I think in a market of 4 million people (that is supposedly the greatest soccer market on the planet outside of Wigan) the team should be able to draw in the high 20's/ low 30's with a decent product on the field.

The sad fact is that the team has been sub par for the MLS over the last 5 years- hence resulting in more and more empty seats.

And a truefandom doesn't pay for championship banners.

this bitterness is old ...maybe 3 years ago,...thankfully most of us have moved on and got out to change the atmosphere and contribute....and we've been rewarded for it ....amazing atmosphere and amazing friendships,......it's been a fight RE: what with that huge game wed night it was hardly even mentioned BEFORE the game,..because the of the cynicism amongst the 'old school' for lack of a better word . We knew better because of all the behind the scenes efforts of MANY.....We Knew!....after the game everyone seemed shocked and all media took note........we have a TEAM now, and whether win or lose there will be a huge amount of entertainment................critics stay home in your living room and watch your senior leagues (sic)....our friends and fans will be outside laughin and singing......forgetting BS ....AND I'll be up at Downsview as much as possible watching the jr's......no giant stadium there........even more of a suburban parking lot,..lol......enjoy utopia

[ensco]

What I'm saying is you have to speak in facts. Making up numbers doesn't work.


I'm not interested in debating this. I don't believe MLSE's numbers because I trust my own eyes, and ebay/stubhub/ticket - trader confirm what I see.

The poor behaviour of institutions is THE story of our era. MLSE, like many other institutions, manipulate, distort and obfuscate data, and the people involved would be replaced if they didn't.

[Shakes McQueen]

What I'm saying is you have to speak in facts. Making up numbers doesn't work.

Except that one self-interested party (MLSE), in this case, control what the supposed "facts" are.

There was more than a few games last season where at least a quarter of the stadium was very noticeably empty.

- Scott

[Wull]

this thread is the reason I refuse to relocate from 115 and why we made such a big effort to get our seats together. As a supporters group(s) we couldn't agree on the colour of shite

[kodiakTFC]

I'm not interested in debating this. I don't believe MLSE's numbers because I trust my own eyes, and ebay/stubhub/ticket - trader confirm what I see.

The poor behaviour of institutions is THE story of our era. MLSE, like many other institutions, manipulate, distort and obfuscate data, and the people involved would be replaced if they didn't.

I don't get your point though because these tickets are sold. The tickets that aren't sold aren't cheap and people don't value the product at $60-100. If they opened more cheap seats such as the 2nd deck on the East side, and they were reasonable I believe they could certainly sell more.

People not showing isn't the teams problem, they can't ensure whoever buys tickets will either show or give their tickets to someone.

[denime]

I'm sorry, you just can't make up your own numbers. People might not show up, or show up late, or go home early, but if the tickets are sold they're sold.

In a 22 000 seat stadium, 4000 people not being there is quite a noticeable chunk. Last year I remember a couple times hearing announced crowds of 18 000 plus. That's noticeably less than capacity. We also had very bad weather for most of the first half of the season and 2 games that were canceled mid-way due to inclement weather. None of this lends itself well to "butts in seats" as you put it. I also believe that people won't support a losing team in perpetuity unless that team wears skates.

What I'm saying is you can't make up your own numbers. It would be nice if every time I felt like debating something I referenced numbers that I believed to be true and could use them to reinforce my opinion. Unfortunately, that isn't the way it works.


What I'm saying is you have to speak in facts. Making up numbers doesn't work.

If this team wins consistently I believe there is a sufficient fan base to make BMO as big as the Home Depot Centre. If it sells 20 000 in a 27-29 000 seater for lesser matches and sells out for bigger matches I'd be okay with that.

FACTS,EH?


I'm not interested in debating this. I don't believe MLSE's numbers because I trust my own eyes, and ebay/stubhub/ticket - trader confirm what I see.

The poor behaviour of institutions is THE story of our era. MLSE, like many other institutions, manipulate, distort and obfuscate data, and the people involved would be replaced if they didn't.

QFT


Except that one self-interested party (MLSE), in this case, control what the supposed "facts" are.

There was more than a few games last season where at least a quarter of the stadium was very noticeably empty.

- Scott


Let's not forget a few CCL games where at most quarter of the stadium was"full",and that's the fact I have documented.

http://i43.tinypic.com/whod4p.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/dq6vth.jpg


http://i43.tinypic.com/az6hi0.jpg



AND GUESS WHO SHOWED UP THAT NIGHT ?

http://i41.tinypic.com/28asr2q.jpg

AND THAT'S THE FACT NO ONE CAN DENY !

:flare::drum::scarf::drum::flare:

[james]

well some big positive points out of all this negative talk is TFC after 5 years still are selling out most games and has one of the highest attendance in MLS despite not even having 1 winning season to make the playoffs as well as having higher ticket prices then most MLS teams. We got higher Concacaf Champions League attendance then most teams despite tickets costing way higher then they should of ever been priced at, even when we only had 10-000 - 14,000 fans, those tickets should be half price at least. We still have the highest away fans to ever travel to an away game by far(TFC fans to Columbus 2,000- 2,500 fans) and probably still get more travelling fans each year to places like Chicago, Montreal, New England, DC, Seattle exc. covering more distance then any other team fans. We still have a louder, and bigger supporters group then just about any team besides maybe seattle and Portland. We still have had some of the biggest and best Tifos in MLS despite falling behind a bit last 2 years (sky dome tifo showed TFC supporters are still one of the best) and we set a Concacaf Champions League Record in attendance of 47,000 which most teams at this stage could never even come close. I think we still have something to be proud of, Soccer support in Toronto is alive and well and we need to keep growing just like MLS is growing and improving fast!!!

[Chris Wren]

denime. What is your point? You're showing me CCL pictures. I'm quite sure nobody has claimed any false numbers for CCL games. The CCL is something people are just starting to understand and embrace.

All I'm saying is that if you want to have a reasonable discussion you can't site numbers that come from your own opinion. You think MLSE padded the stats? Okay, say that. You just can't say TFC drew 15-16 000. That isn't factual either.

In my opinion we close to a sell out most games last year, some weren't. We had a bad team, traded our most popular player, we had bad weather during many early season games. It all lead to an all time low in interest, rightfully so. If TFC were to start winning consistently I believe there are enough fans to fill a 27-29 000 on a semi regular basis.

I'm not really sure why what I'm saying is so worthy of the contempt you show me.

[trane]

i think you guys over sale TFC sometimes. exspand BMO field to 40,000 is not needed nor is it even a good idea. You make BMO field to 40,000 capacity means you are stuck with that for possibly decades, you exspect to get 40,000+ for every single TFC game, including Canada Championship and Concacaf matches?? We were only getting 10,000 fans for some Concacaf matches prior to the LA game, we also were getting 17, 18, 19 thousand for some League games this year. Ya we could sell out some games at a 40,000 BMO field but it will look like complete shit when you only have 10,000-20,000 for other games. An exspansion to BMO field that size just isn't needed at this point. If anything was to change about BMO id say just add some roofs, inclose the corners, maybe make the south end and North end a bit bigger, maybe add some more box offices above the east stand and renovate to improve the interior work of the stadium. THey could probably do all that by making the stadium 25-27,000 capacity and i don't think it would be a good idea to go any bigger then that at this time or in the next 10 years.

I do not expect 40,000 at every single game. But as I said there are several games a year you can get over 30, and occassionaly 40.

I have my issues with the MLSE and TFC, but in this city were such a large percentage of the population was born in football first countries, or is the first generation Canadian from football first countries, you put a half decent product on the field, and some important game and you should be able to get such numbers on the regular. No not for each league game, but as I said for several times a year. It is already happening, build a stadium that can accomodate this, to grow the sport.

[Waggy]

denime. What is your point? You're showing me CCL pictures. I'm quite sure nobody has claimed any false numbers for CCL games. The CCL is something people are just starting to understand and embrace.

All I'm saying is that if you want to have a reasonable discussion you can't site numbers that come from your own opinion. You think MLSE padded the stats? Okay, say that. You just can't say TFC drew 15-16 000. That isn't factual either.

In my opinion we close to a sell out most games last year, some weren't. We had a bad team, traded our most popular player, we had bad weather during many early season games. It all lead to an all time low in interest, rightfully so. If TFC were to start winning consistently I believe there are enough fans to fill a 27-29 000 on a semi regular basis.

I'm not really sure why what I'm saying is so worthy of the contempt you show me.


http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-07-27-toronto-fc-vs-real-estel%C3%AD/recap

Attendance: 9,241


People are treating you with contempt because every reasonable argument they make you ignore or insult. Then ask why no-one takes your claim (that you haven't backed up with anything, no numbers to speculate, no pictures, no nothing) as gospel. When there's a game outside the season ticket package you can see the true demand in the market. In this case, 9241 wanted to pay to watch Toronto FC. And I wouldn't be surprise if that was inflated as well. TFC CAN sell 30k tickets, but not regularly. Your thinking is what lead the Jays to say "Screw it! We'll build a 55000 seat stadium, and even if only 30k people come it'll be fine". Wrong. There needs to be scarcity. If there's no scarcity in this city then there's no demand. If people don't see other people, then they complain. Whenever the Dome is full it's got a fantastic atmosphere. When there's 20k people in there its cavernous and silent. Do you prefer TFC play in a smaller loud and crowded stadium or a big 1/3-2/3 empty silent one?

[GabrielHurl]

Totally gut BMO and build a real stadium. Toronto FC supporters deserve it. 25000 seats. Cozy, with a roof all the way around the seats.

BMO is just pretty much portable stands. It was probably built as a temporary measure.

After that we dont need Rogers Centre.

And who is willing to stump up the $200million for that?

[trane]

Waggy,

Who is saying play at Rogers on a regular basis, and how is saying expand skydome to 55,000?


It may be too early for a 40,000 stadium, maybe right now we should have a 30,000 stadium. But then you have to be willing to move to a different venue when the game is a bigger game. You cannot keep BMO small, and then cry when we have a big game and it is not being played there.

[Whoop]

Just a couple of things I see going through this thread.

1) Montreal is only playing at Olympic Stadium because Saputo isn't finished yet. Will they play all their season openers at Olympic Stadium? Maybe as it's usually the one game where you get big crowds, but anything more than that... they won't get 45,000 for a regular season match.

2) SkyDome was only used because of the weather. If the CCL QF match was scheduled for May, it would have been at BMO.

3) I'm with ensco and Shakes, there were many games over the last 2-3 years where the crowd was announced at 20,000 when it was more like 15,000-16,000. I know in seasons 1-3 if I couldn't go I was able to sell my tickets, the last 2 seasons not as easy. And if I couldn't go, I couldn't go but according to TFC I was there when I wasn't. I know of many people that were in the same boat.

4) The fact that TFC was selling season tickets in the new year suggests that demand for the tickets has gone down and they've burned through their waiting list.

Yes, last Wednesday was fun and a big crowd but I think a lot of it had to do with marketing and price point. If it was game 4 of the season and it was against Chivas, you wouldn't have had 40,000+ there. I still maintain there was a considerable portion of people at the match on Wednesday to see Beckham. Even if it was 20%, that's still 8000 people.

Until BMO is busting at the seams again and TFC is a perennial contender for the CCL, I don't think playing matches at the SkyDome is all that feasible. And then if that is the case, you have to look at expansion at BMO first.

And if they do go back to SkyDome... please NO TURF....

[Waggy]

Waggy,

Who is saying play at Rogers on a regular basis, and how is saying expand skydome to 55,000?


It may be too early for a 40,000 stadium, maybe right now we should have a 30,000 stadium. But then you have to be willing to move to a different venue when the game is a bigger game. You cannot keep BMO small, and then cry when we have a big game and it is not being played there.

Chris is arguing we should scrap bmo and build a new 27 or 28000 seat stadium. I think right now thats akin to the Jays picking a 55000 seat stadium instead of a 40000ish. Especially since bmo is still fine, and will probably be slowly getting added to basically biannually. And is on schedule to be in that neighborhood by 2017 anyways, for the winter classic/leafs 100th. Not talking about Rogers Centre full time. We should play select matches at the dome. cup finals, and the like. but not many. keep it for 'event' matches.

[ensco]

Chris Wren: There is no data source other than one (the club) and that one is polluted. Your argument cannot be countered except to argue that this argument is somewhat childish (not calling you childish, just this particular line of argument). Reason trumps "data" when the data is wrong.

I believe, based on my own observation, which is not just pulled out of thin air, but based on a reasonable estimate over time, that others above agree with, that the current offering/price structure supports around 15,000 per game.

I further believe that the team's epic underperformance has cost the team around 3,000 seats per game. i base this on my personal estimate that there were around 18,000-19,000 per game in 2008 and 2009.

Pricing is not that big of a factor overall imho. There are clearly more people that would buy more south end seats, but a good chunk of that demand is from existing SSHs that would love to trade down. I do not believe that this group represents more than 5,000 in latent net demand, and it could be smaller.

In no scenario can I come close to 27,000-29,000 average attendance. The only way to get there or higher is if MLS closes the gap with the big Euro leagues, in which case the sky is the limit.

The CCL game proves that once or twice a year you can fill Skydome for almost anything if it's cheap/unusual enough. It says nothing about true demand for TFC.

[pekduck]

Chris Wren: There is no data source other than one (the club) and that one is polluted. Your argument cannot be countered except to argue that this argument is somewhat childish (not calling you childish, just this particular line of argument). Reason trumps "data" when the data is wrong.

I believe, based on my own observation, which is not just pulled out of thin air, but based on a reasonable estimate over time, that others above agree with, that the current offering/price structure supports around 15,000 per game.

I further believe that the team's epic underperformance has cost the team around 3,000 seats per game. i base this on my personal estimate that there were around 18,000-19,000 per game in 2008 and 2009.

Pricing is not that big of a factor overall imho. There are clearly more people that would buy more south end seats, but a good chunk of that demand is from existing SSHs that would love to trade down. I do not believe that this group represents more than 5,000 in latent net demand, and it could be smaller.

In no scenario can I come close to 27,000-29,000 average attendance. The only way to get there or higher is if MLS closes the gap with the big Euro leagues, in which case the sky is the limit.

The CCL game proves that once or twice a year you can fill Skydome for almost anything if it's cheap/unusual enough. It says nothing about true demand for TFC.

that's the key, i'd much rather we have a sell out BMO game in game out first

[Ossington Mental Youth]

thought they did a really great job, had alot of fun and security seemed like no issue at all (which was a concern for me). Dont mind it as a last result provided they do the same job they did this time.

[TorontoMO]

Montreal has sold 46 000 tickets to it's home opener. Toronto could do the same every year at the Dome.

Time to try to expand the fan base.

[Chris Wren]

Chris is arguing we should scrap bmo and build a new 27 or 28000 seat stadium. I think right now thats akin to the Jays picking a 55000 seat stadium instead of a 40000ish. Especially since bmo is still fine, and will probably be slowly getting added to basically biannually. And is on schedule to be in that neighborhood by 2017 anyways, for the winter classic/leafs 100th. Not talking about Rogers Centre full time. We should play select matches at the dome. cup finals, and the like. but not many. keep it for 'event' matches.

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm not sure where you get that.

If this team wins consistently I believe there is a sufficient fan base to make BMO as big as the Home Depot Centre. If it sells 20 000 in a 27-29 000 seater for lesser matches and sells out for bigger matches I'd be okay with that.

That's what I said.

The original question asked about going back to the Rogers Centre. I said yes for a CCL semi final or MLS Cup final that we were in.

When I read criticism that the supporters songs were not clearly heard, I suggested it was because it was too loud in there which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I enjoyed the atmosphere. Then I was shown a video of somewhere in Russia or Poland about how real fans do it. I never said I don't like mass unison, I just said it doesn't bother me if we don't have it.

I love BMO as is. These are all hypothetical scenarios. If we go back to Rogers Centre once in awhile, fine. If we never go back, fine.

It's worth noting that the Jays sold out for a few years at the dome when they had a team that competed for championships. I'd love a more intimate venue to watch the Jays in, but the dome was built in a certain era and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[raj100]

all im saying is... is if tfc ever get the chance to play an mls final at home (this season the finalist with the higher point total gets home field? if im not mistaken) the game MUST be played at bmo... our real home.. it may be small... but its intimate... its the TRUE home... weather permitting all games should be played at bmo

[james]

why would you scrap BMO field and build a bran new 27-28,000 seat stadium?. First we have a BMO 21,000 seat stadium, you can renovate it and improve it if ever needed to and even make it to 27 or 28,000 (tho i don't think anything over 25,000 capacity is needed) for alot less then starting scratch you would think. Not to mention where would they put this bran new stadium if you were to build it?? there isn't a whole lot of land in the Downtown area to build on, many stadiums seem to take years just trying to purchase land to build stadiums in USA/Canada.

[Waggy]

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm not sure where you get that.

If this team wins consistently I believe there is a sufficient fan base to make BMO as big as the Home Depot Centre. If it sells 20 000 in a 27-29 000 seater for lesser matches and sells out for bigger matches I'd be okay with that.

That's what I said.

The original question asked about going back to the Rogers Centre. I said yes for a CCL semi final or MLS Cup final that we were in.

When I read criticism that the supporters songs were not clearly heard, I suggested it was because it was too loud in there which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I enjoyed the atmosphere. Then I was shown a video of somewhere in Russia or Poland about how real fans do it. I never said I don't like mass unison, I just said it doesn't bother me if we don't have it.

I love BMO as is. These are all hypothetical scenarios. If we go back to Rogers Centre once in awhile, fine. If we never go back, fine.

It's worth noting that the Jays sold out for a few years at the dome when they had a team that competed for championships. I'd love a more intimate venue to watch the Jays in, but the dome was built in a certain era and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

My bad, missunderstood completely

[Huyton]

If BMO Field gets torn down and a 30,000 seat stadium gets built, be prepared for half the seats to be double blue.

[Blizzard]

If BMO Field gets torn down and a 30,000 seat stadium gets built, be prepared for half the seats to be double blue.

That is a very good point. That door cannot be opened.

[Yohan]

If BMO Field gets torn down and a 30,000 seat stadium gets built, be prepared for half the seats to be double blue.
not to mention TFC will need a temporary home until the stadium gets built

[Chris Wren]

My bad, missunderstood completely

No worries.

[Kaz]

Are people really using a Prelim match in CCL as "proof" of a lack of fan support. It was the most heavily attended of the first round Prelim games by about 1500 people. 700 showed up in Panama to watch San Fransisco play Seattle. (Seattle had 21,000 a month later, and Olympia had 10k for it's game against a Mexican side)

The Prelims get a lower turn out because the Draw dosen't happen until about 8 weeks before the first game, and the winners are seldom a surprise. it's why they got rid of them.

They don't really matter (or shouldn't) 5 of the 8 prelim winners are currently in the Quarter Finals) Almost every winner could have been picked as a foregone conclusion. (only 2 or 3 would have not had one team as a significant under dog)

This is not a heavily attended Tournament at any stage. The two highest turn outs are both from Canadian Quarterfinal dates.


I suppose everyone thinks the numbers were cooked for the CCL match too because so many seats were empty in the 500s... of course a large number of people were around the back of the 100s watching there. And at BMO when you see 500-1000 empty seats it's amazing how many people don't see the people in other areas.

Demine in the blurry pictures you posted of the north stand there are 20-30 people that can be made out underneath.

So in a staduim with 21100 seats with 20,100 announced attendance, there are at least 1000 empty seats, plus up to 250-500 under the north stand, and another 100-200 at least off doing other things. And suddenly you have an appearance of lower seats, which are blown up by some of the cranky people here as being more then they actually are.

Now are the numbers ligit... no that is clear and can be proven without a shadow of a doubt... what are the odds of same number of people a week apart? (May 28th and June 4th) But are the numbers as cooked as some of the "supporters" claim they are... no.

Can BMO support more seats right now... no... There are 2 maybe 3 games a year that you will get more then 22k in the seats. A half empty stadium most of the time isn't good for business.

[TorontoMO]

all im saying is... is if tfc ever get the chance to play an mls final at home (this season the finalist with the higher point total gets home field? if im not mistaken) the game MUST be played at bmo... our real home.. it may be small... but its intimate... its the TRUE home... weather permitting all games should be played at bmo

Has BMO become a member's only club? Seriously when I read shit like that I think of a country club where no else is allowed to stink up the greens.

I don't want to be part of that.

[denime]

Has BMO become a member's only club? Seriously when I read shit like that I think of a country club where no else is allowed to stink up the greens.

I don't want to be part of that.

Than don't be a part of it,no one is holding the gun on your head.

BMO IS OUR HOME FIELD and if you don't like it,wait for next year game at Rogers Centre or join us in our house by the lake.

[Belfast_Boy]

Soooo back to the Dome for the semi?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

No. BMO field for the semi

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Actually I would be ok with the dome, if they bring in real grass

[Couchy81]

Actually I would be ok with the dome, if they bring in real grass

Same, but that is the only way.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Same, but that is the only way.

A big *storage wars* "Yuuuup!"

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Doesn't it cost major bucks to lay grass at the dome?

[geordie77]

we are not going to draw 47,000 aganist a team from Mexico on the semis as there is no Beckham. the game will be played at BMO field.

[zeelaw]

I think the word and discussion following the first leg would warrant an attempt at BMO for the 2nd leg(despite no LA Superstars). But we need grass there. If not... BMO it is.

[ryan]

It's gonna be a couple days after the home opener at BMO, they will play there.

[denime]

March 28. BMO FIELD !

RC next year 1/4 finals ;)

[jabbronies]

March 28. BMO FIELD !

RC next year 1/4 finals ;)

This

[burlington Red]

I think the atmosphere at Rogers Centre is slightly getting blown out of proportion. Yes the amount of people there was great, colours were great also, but I seriously couldn't hear anything any of the other sections were singing, it just didn't travel. BMO anyday for me, half the crowd size but twice the atmosphere

[Super]

I think the atmosphere at Rogers Centre is slightly getting blown out of proportion. Yes the amount of people there was great, colours were great also, but I seriously couldn't hear anything any of the other sections were singing, it just didn't travel. BMO anyday for me, half the crowd size but twice the atmosphere

I agree with you. It was a fun experience to see a game at a bigger venue and with a bigger crowd, but I do agree that the atmosphere is a bit better at BMO - but only when it's not windy. Still don't like BMO though. Looks like a US high school pointyball stadium. Never felt like a proper football stadium to me. But I guess we're stuck with it. I'd feel a bit better about it when/if we get a roof.

[NBS]

If TFC make the finals of the CCL, Anselmi suggested strongly that it would go back to the Rogers Centre. It would be a three week turnaround (we would be the second leg I believe), so it would be tough to fill in that short timeframe, but Jays would be on the road for the three available dates.

People need to consider that RC allows more fans who desperately want to see the game live to have that opportunity. I think it's important to accommodate as many people as possible who want to see such an event live.

[jazzy]

Has BMO become a member's only club? Seriously when I read shit like that I think of a country club where no else is allowed to stink up the greens.

I don't want to be part of that.

not sure why you feel that way , the games are never sold out......contrary to what they report....travelzoo had home opener tickets yesterday at a good savings......so come on down.......everyones welcome........theproblem with skydome is (again) the seats were purposely made smaller to boost the attendance figures and portability for different events hence after 45 mins I'm in PAIN...and I hate venues were even the best seats are miles from the action........and the huge majority are FORCED to sit.....and yes with all the extra numbers it seemed a few bad apples naturally came out to cause a scene.....never good!

[jazzy]

I agree with you. It was a fun experience to see a game at a bigger venue and with a bigger crowd, but I do agree that the atmosphere is a bit better at BMO - but only when it's not windy. Still don't like BMO though. Looks like a US high school pointyball stadium. Never felt like a proper football stadium to me. But I guess we're stuck with it. I'd feel a bit better about it when/if we get a roof.

well put......don't see it happenning now, unfortunately MLSE has woken up to $$$ that could be made at rogers centre.......frankly they don't give a shit about our comfort level at bmo......in the end $$$ TALKS.....I'm sure if they actually felt they could fill skydome, or get close to it ......they'd think about moving permanently. Lets not forget they own the leafs, seen any change there?.....but they keep making $$$...we may be the architech's of our own misfortune..

[BRed]

How many rows are there in section 110 at BMO??

[117]

It's not final, but I've heard that in October, at the end of the baseball season, they're going to be digging up the floor at the Rogers Centre and adding real grass permanently.

I believe this means that the seats won't be able to move, basically making it a baseball-only facility.

Not sure where that leaves the Argos for 2013.

[jazzy]

It's not final, but I've heard that in October, at the end of the baseball season, they're going to be digging up the floor at the Rogers Centre and adding real grass permanently.

I believe this means that the seats won't be able to move, basically making it a baseball-only facility.

Not sure where that leaves the Argos for 2013.

please please please....but I thought Beaston negated that idea

MLSE doesn't care bout the argos....unless they buy them

[Yohan]

hrm. so, we get weird brown patches for the mound, like Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City?

[Auzzy]

It's not final, but I've heard that in October, at the end of the baseball season, they're going to be digging up the floor at the Rogers Centre and adding real grass permanently.

I believe this means that the seats won't be able to move, basically making it a baseball-only facility.

Not sure where that leaves the Argos for 2013.

MLS Cup is Dec. 1st this year. Could be interesting if we make it this year or in the future.

Stock up on long johns! We could be in for some cold CCL games at BMO Field, early next March... Better get those pipes insulated as well...

[J .]

my god, we finally get an SSS and ppl want games at a fucking baseball cavern.

I hope they rip of the Skydome and put grass in if that means no more Skydome matches. Fort Red or bust.

[denime]

my god, we finally get an SSS and ppl want games at a fucking baseball cavern.

I hope they rip of the Skydome and put grass in if that means no more Skydome matches. Fort Red or bust.


QFT !

[117]

hrm. so, we get weird brown patches for the mound, like Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City?

Not if the only thing they play in the stadium is baseball.

[Kaz]

my god, we finally get an SSS and ppl want games at a fucking baseball cavern.

I hope they rip of the Skydome and put grass in if that means no more Skydome matches. Fort Red or bust.


Haven't you heard there are dozens of whiners that say BMO sucks cause it dosen't have a roof, Skydome has a roof so it's gotta be better.

I love BMO it's where we should be playing.

[DoubleUp]

My only question is, if they play winter games in russia. Why cant we do the same here?

[Kaz]

My only question is, if they play winter games in russia. Why cant we do the same here?

They stop playing in Russia in early November, and don't start again until early March.

[Mulder]

It's not final, but I've heard that in October, at the end of the baseball season, they're going to be digging up the floor at the Rogers Centre and adding real grass permanently.

I believe this means that the seats won't be able to move, basically making it a baseball-only facility.

Not sure where that leaves the Argos for 2013.

I call Bullshit on this. Argos Have 4 home dates after the baseball season is over and the 100th Grey Cup at the end of November.

[DoubleUp]

They stop playing in Russia in early November, and don't start again until early March.


basically the same times when they say its to cold for us to play at Bmo.

[Carts]

I call Bullshit on this. Argos Have 4 home dates after the baseball season is over and the 100th Grey Cup at the end of November.

You are 100% correct... The remaining Argo games and 100th Grey Cup aren't going anywhere...

NOW, once the Grey Cup is done - the stories of the Jays finally sinking the money into a natural surface continue to heat up...

The Jays have faced the same problems TFC did once upon a time, free-agents saying 'no' because of that god awful turf...

[117]

You are 100% correct... The remaining Argo games and 100th Grey Cup aren't going anywhere...

NOW, once the Grey Cup is done - the stories of the Jays finally sinking the money into a natural surface continue to heat up...

The Jays have faced the same problems TFC did once upon a time, free-agents saying 'no' because of that god awful turf...

My apologies. Of course, this wouldn't happen until after the Grey Cup. I don't think the decision is completely done at this point. I don't have first hand knowledge of the situation, but I have second hand knowledge from 2 different people, both of whom would know.

[glaze]

My apologies. Of course, this wouldn't happen until after the Grey Cup. I don't think the decision is completely done at this point. I don't have first hand knowledge of the situation, but I have second hand knowledge from 2 different people, both of whom would know.

There is next to zero chance of this happening. Rogers needs dates in the skydome. an 82 home-game blue jays schedule is not enough. they need the monster trucks, the big concerts, the disney on ice, and yes, the argos. Beeston's comment was taken a bit out of context. I interpreted it as him saying, they may have to consider grass in the future, because some players refuse to sign here due to the field. However, there are no plans to add grass for next season.

As for BMO, it will have to be winterized. I expect a full house saturday and next wednesday, but if it was at the Dome, I don;t think they could have sold it out again for this match.

[denime]

There is next to zero chance of this happening. Rogers needs dates in the skydome. an 82 home-game blue jays schedule is not enough. they need the monster trucks, the big concerts, the disney on ice, and yes, the argos. Beeston's comment was taken a bit out of context. I interpreted it as him saying, they may have to consider grass in the future, because some players refuse to sign here due to the field. However, there are no plans to add grass for next season.

As for BMO, it will have to be winterized. I expect a full house saturday and next wednesday, but if it was at the Dome, I don;t think they could have sold it out again for this match.


That is not problem at all,all Rogers has to do is to install modular multi-use natural grass system,same system is being used at The Millennium Stadium with retractable roof in Cardiff .
The natural grass turf is a made up of a modular system installed by GreenTech ITM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GreenTech_ITM). It features built in irrigation and drainage. The pitch itself is laid on top of some 7,412 pallets which can be moved so the stadium can be used for concerts, exhibitions and other events

http://www.greentechitm.com/systems/multiuse.asp

http://www.greentechitm.com/video/olympics2008.wmv


Check the videos and photos within this site and you will see it can be done if they really want to have grass for their "seeds eating sometimes running mostly bored baseball millionaires".


And I agree BMO must get winterized ASAP.

[glaze]

That is not problem at all,all Rogers has to do is to install modular multi-use natural grass system,same system is being used at The Millennium Stadium with retractable roof in Cardiff .

Check the videos and photos within this site and you will see it can be done if they really want to have grass for their "seeds eating sometimes running mostly bored baseball millionaires".

And I agree BMO must get winterized ASAP.

thanks for the links. I really shouldn't have made such a bold statement without some research. And I really have a bad tendency to immediately consider the negative option when it comes to mlse/toronto sports ownership. Who's to say we can't have a stadium that's top of the line. After all, at one point the skydome was the jewel of MLB.

as a fan, I'd rather see a grass field. As a really tall person (6'9") I'd trade a grass field for some leg room in the 100 level. I literally can not comfortably fit in those seats. Hope BMO isnt that bad. I spent last year standing in 110, so have no clue as to the legroom that awaits me in 104 on saturday.

[117]

There is next to zero chance of this happening... Beeston's comment was taken a bit out of context. I interpreted it as him saying, they may have to consider grass in the future, because some players refuse to sign here due to the field. However, there are no plans to add grass for next season."

I guess someone should have told your interpretations to the employees and engineers that have spent months on this project. It may not be guaranteed to happen for April 1, 2013. But that's the plan.

[Enterprise Captain]

I guess someone should have told your interpretations to the employees and engineers that have spent months on this project. It may not be guaranteed to happen for April 1, 2013. But that's the plan.
I was at the Argos Town Hall on Monday and they are in talks to extend their lease, which ends after this season for another 3-5 years. Chris Rudge said he has lunch with Paul Besston once a week and the grass is pretty much a dead issue, something the media blew out of proportion.

[TorontoMO]

Than don't be a part of it,no one is holding the gun on your head.

BMO IS OUR HOME FIELD and if you don't like it,wait for next year game at Rogers Centre or join us in our house by the lake.

I bet you're the kind of guy who used to worry about the soccer moms. HAHA. Now you can sit next to the 3000 Groupon ticket buyers in your so called house...and after the game you can head over to McDonald's for discounted chicken nuggets- that's if you have a coupon.

Ahhh the ghetto fan amuses me.

[zeelaw]

Man, terrace style seating for the win. Rip up the south end.