PDA

View Full Version : Today's News,Friday,Feb.17



denime
02-17-2012, 06:38 AM
Mornin`



TFC TV (http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp)



Rongen's Influence Being Felt (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/02/rongens-influence-being-felt)


Gettin' real with TFC's de Guzman (http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/16/gettin-real-with-tfc-de-guzman)


Avila stepping into a leadership role for Toronto FC (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/02/16/avila-stepping-leadership-role-toronto-fc)


Countdown to First Kick: 23 TFC's defensive struggles (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/02/16/countdown-first-kick-23-tfcs-defensive-struggles)


Kia Unveils Special TFC Optima (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/02/kia-unveils-special-tfc-optima)





TFC related blogs ! (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=29582)




SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)


_

Oldtimer
02-17-2012, 07:24 AM
Declan Hill (author of "The Fix") was interviewed yesterday on Prime Time Sports on what current problems are happening with match-fixing in soccer. While he didn't say there was a problem in MLS, he said that some of the CCL matches are being investigated for match fixing. It doesn't seem that any MLS squads are implicated. A must-listen:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20120216_181039_5204

Oldtimer
02-17-2012, 07:29 AM
The interview with de Guzman really emphasizes some things: (1) Our past manager was a joke (2) it really was the right decision to fire Preki along with Mo, something I had often wondered about (3) the current set-up is very professional.

A lot of people's opinions about the club were formed under the prior regime, that will take time (and success!) to change.

Technorgasm
02-17-2012, 07:48 AM
The interview with de Guzman really emphasizes some things: (1) Our past manager was a joke (2) it really was the right decision to fire Preki along with Mo, something I had often wondered about (3) the current set-up is very professional.

A lot of people's opinions about the club were formed under the prior regime, that will take time (and success!) to change.

I find it much more valuable, and enjoyable to read your comments on TFC articles. . than the articles themselves.

Thanks mate.:drum:

Oldtimer
02-17-2012, 08:03 AM
I find it much more valuable, and enjoyable to read your comments on TFC articles. . than the articles themselves.

Thanks mate.:drum:

ha-ha. What's football but a game of opinions? Have a great day.

Wull
02-17-2012, 08:20 AM
I thought de guzman came across poorly in it but I've never been a fan since his first infraction at new england

ensco
02-17-2012, 08:34 AM
I hate to say this but....for a guy who is doing a great job covering the team, Larson isn't a very good writer. His pieces are riddled with incomplete sentences, grammatical mistakes, and awkward inverted sentence structures. I hope he's just fooling around.... you can't make a career in journalism with a writing style that weak.

Also I hope someday we see Preki's side of the story. I'd be very interested in that.

Darlofletch
02-17-2012, 08:40 AM
The interview with de Guzman really emphasizes some things: (1) Our past manager was a joke (2) it really was the right decision to fire Preki along with Mo, something I had often wondered about (3) the current set-up is very professional.

A lot of people's opinions about the club were formed under the prior regime, that will take time (and success!) to change.

The one thing it emphasized for me was de guzman's complete inability to take any kind of repsonsibility. ooh, the club was chaotic, preki didn't have a clue, the fans are clueless rubes who didn't know what i was supposed to be doing and had totally unreasonable expectations.

fuck right off.

alright, if we go with the "fans expected you to be scoring goals and running the offence, which isn't fair" argument, I'd say no, most fans I think were hoping we might get what we saw in the 07 gold cup, but knew that you were more of a defensive midfielder, in which case, where's the fucking defence been so far mr DP DM?

the only time the defence has looked halfway decent was under the 'amateurish' Preki. hope you and dwayne had a good chuckle about that.

If he was constantly playing you out of position and absolutely terrible, then why when we got winter who "made things easier and more understandable for you" and played you where you wanted to play did we go back to looking like a complete shambles with the league's worst goal differential.

any responsibility to take for that at all? doesn't look like it to me, so if it's unrealistic to expect you to be the offensive star, and the best defence we've had was when you were being played out of position by an amateurish coach, then what exactly is it you're here to do de guzman?

"Fit and finally on the front foot, there’s no one else to point the finger at."

Oh he'll find someone, don't you worry, he's DP worthy when it comes to throwing people under the bus.

really hope he finally earns this shitty attitude with his on pitch play this year.

Beach_Red
02-17-2012, 08:41 AM
I hate to say this but....for a guy who is doing a great job covering the team, Larson isn't a very good writer. His pieces are riddled with incomplete sentences, grammatical mistakes, and awkward inverted sentence structures. I hope he's just fooling around.... you can't make a career in journalism with a writing style that weak.

Also I hope someday we see Preki's side of the story. I'd be very interested in that.

Oh, there are all kinds of things about the way this team was set-up and run for the first four years that would be intesting to get more info on.

__wowza
02-17-2012, 09:27 AM
The one thing it emphasized for me was de guzman's complete inability to take any kind of repsonsibility.

agreed. maybe the current regime got him to step up, but my understanding of him in this article is paramount to him saying "i play better with a good coach and talented teammates".

if he was the best player on the pitch under the old system, that'd be one thing, but he wasn't, and many times he ranked middle or lower for people i'd want to see on the field.

again, if the team winter put together made him step his game up, fine, whatever. i just don't want to hear shit about him not playing to his full potential unless i could say i saw him play to his full potential two years ago. there's only one game, ONE GAME, i could say i saw that in, and that was the game after the one where he split the wall instead of blocking a free kick.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 09:31 AM
Also I hope someday we see Preki's side of the story. I'd be very interested in that.

I'd be more interested in hearing the fan reaction to this being that it was certain players that were blamed for the divide in the locker room rather than the coach.

Preki being fired 9 months into his tenure does tell us what the team's thoughts on Preki were though.

Shakes McQueen
02-17-2012, 09:43 AM
The one thing it emphasized for me was de guzman's complete inability to take any kind of repsonsibility. ooh, the club was chaotic, preki didn't have a clue, the fans are clueless rubes who didn't know what i was supposed to be doing and had totally unreasonable expectations.

fuck right off.

alright, if we go with the "fans expected you to be scoring goals and running the offence, which isn't fair" argument, I'd say no, most fans I think were hoping we might get what we saw in the 07 gold cup, but knew that you were more of a defensive midfielder, in which case, where's the fucking defence been so far mr DP DM?

the only time the defence has looked halfway decent was under the 'amateurish' Preki. hope you and dwayne had a good chuckle about that.

If he was constantly playing you out of position and absolutely terrible, then why when we got winter who "made things easier and more understandable for you" and played you where you wanted to play did we go back to looking like a complete shambles with the league's worst goal differential.

any responsibility to take for that at all? doesn't look like it to me, so if it's unrealistic to expect you to be the offensive star, and the best defence we've had was when you were being played out of position by an amateurish coach, then what exactly is it you're here to do de guzman?

"Fit and finally on the front foot, there’s no one else to point the finger at."

Oh he'll find someone, don't you worry, he's DP worthy when it comes to throwing people under the bus.

really hope he finally earns this shitty attitude with his on pitch play this year.

It's anoying, but most interviews with footballers seem to be like this pretty universally, from what I've seen. When a team is playing poorly, players point fingers and/or request a transfer. Far fewer shoulder their share of the blame, and resolve to be better.

But yeah - I think JDG looked improved over the course of last season, although still not quite earning that DP tag. If he's really that enamored with the new regime at TFC, then I expect him to take the blame if his numbers and overall play continue to sag this season.

- Scott

Detroit_TFC
02-17-2012, 09:53 AM
Seems to me both Preki and AW are stern task masters. The difference is Preki was compromised from the start due to his connections to MJ, whereas AW along with De Klerk have a lot more control over the professional environment at the club (with positive affect IMO). I thought the story on Avila was interesting in terms of showing how players are relating to the team management, talks about Avila working with Silva so he'll understand what is expected of him.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 10:02 AM
Seems to me both Preki and AW are stern task masters. The difference is Preki was compromised from the start due to his connections to MJ, whereas AW along with De Klerk have a lot more control over the professional environment at the club (with positive affect IMO). I thought the story on Avila was interesting in terms of showing how players are relating to the team management, talks about Avila working with Silva so he'll understand what is expected of him.

Preki's connection to MoJo had nothing to do with the problems in the lockerroom. Considering the fact by the end of the year MoJo and Preki hated each other and the players hated both of them speaks to a completely dysfunctional organization.

Canary10
02-17-2012, 10:04 AM
I'm probably one of the few who thinks DeGuzman has been a good player for us. Not a $1.8 million DP player mind you, but a good player. The drop in talent from him to our bench is very noticeable. It is not the same team when Dunfield is on the pitch, just to pick one example. I think people respond to the price tag more than really evaluating what he does on the pitch. Which is justifiable for sure, as he's clearly overpaid, bu he's still a very good player.

Detroit_TFC
02-17-2012, 10:07 AM
It makes me ill thinking how messed up things were, I'm sure there is a lot more to come out yet.

Oldtimer
02-17-2012, 10:25 AM
I'd be more interested in hearing the fan reaction to this being that it was certain players that were blamed for the divide in the locker room rather than the coach.

Preki being fired 9 months into his tenure does tell us what the team's thoughts on Preki were though.

That's a really good point, Roogsy. From JDG's perspective, it seems like the problem was really with the coach.

... and didn't we later hear Preki's opinion on Canadian players? A lot of people here took Preki's statement at face value.

jabbronies
02-17-2012, 10:27 AM
Preki being fired 9 months into his tenure does tell us what the team's thoughts on Preki were though.

The team wasn't big on Preki from very early on. I remember hearing rumblings in May about him.

jabbronies
02-17-2012, 10:31 AM
I'm probably one of the few who thinks DeGuzman has been a good player for us. Not a $1.8 million DP player mind you, but a good player. The drop in talent from him to our bench is very noticeable. It is not the same team when Dunfield is on the pitch, just to pick one example. I think people respond to the price tag more than really evaluating what he does on the pitch. Which is justifiable for sure, as he's clearly overpaid, bu he's still a very good player.

I second this. In order to appreciate DeGuzman, you really have to be watching him off the ball followed by what he does with the ball once he gets it. He wasn't present in the first season and a half, but after that (mid-late 2010) he was all there.

I also agree that he isn't worth 1.8Mil. He's a 1.5 dimensional player. I think if he was getting paid the league max - $425 or whatever it is, people might see his value.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 10:34 AM
The team wasn't big on Preki from very early on. I remember hearing rumblings in May about him.

Oh they almost immediately regretted bringing him on. Par for the course for this organization I guess.

You gotta be some special kind of screw up to make enemies days into your job, and I am not talking about just players.

Beach_Red
02-17-2012, 10:36 AM
Preki's connection to MoJo had nothing to do with the problems in the lockerroom. Considering the fact by the end of the year MoJo and Preki hated each other and the players hated both of them speaks to a completely dysfunctional organization.

Sure, and by then an organization that was desperate and clearly out of its depth. Well, at least the soccer guys were desperate, upper management wasn't worried about a thing (and maybe still aren't). Not a very good recipe for success. Glad it's changed.

Darlofletch
02-17-2012, 10:53 AM
That's a really good point, Roogsy. From JDG's perspective, it seems like the problem was really with the coach.

... and didn't we later hear Preki's opinion on Canadian players? A lot of people here took Preki's statement at face value.

yeah, and de guzman and de ro (only cos he was specifically brought up in the article) have never had a problem with any other coach have they? must be all down to preki.

when exactly did preki play de guzman as a striker? i certainly don't remember that but if anyone could tell me when it actually happened rather than we all juts take his word for it, that'd be cool.

Kurt larsun himself tweeted that de guzman's excuses were "something of a negotiating technique. I wouldn't concede any ground in a contract year" so let's not be taking all this as any kind of gospel truth, more it's about de guzman trying to make de guzman look good.

Waggy
02-17-2012, 10:57 AM
I'd be more interested in hearing the fan reaction to this being that it was certain players that were blamed for the divide in the locker room rather than the coach.

Preki being fired 9 months into his tenure does tell us what the team's thoughts on Preki were though.

I don't get why this is an either, or situation. The coach is certainly responsible for a split locker room, a coach's main job is people management and if the people aren't getting along it's certainly a failure on their part. The GM is responsible for not assembling the right type of people. The players are responsible for not acting as professionals. Also there was a locker room divide long before Preki got there, and it lasted after he left, until the players unvolved were moved out. JDG was paid to be a leader, as was Dero on that club, and we expected other guys to show some locker room class as well. To me JDG placing all the blame on Preki is indicative of the sort of attitude there was that caused those problems. A rift between the "C'mon guys, lets get our shit together and work hard!" ppl and the guys who were like "We're doing our bit. not our fault our gm is a moron and our coach is an ass"

Oldtimer
02-17-2012, 10:58 AM
^ I remember Preki trying JDG as striker once. It was only in one game though, or part of a game even.

JDG does have no excuse at this point. If he doesn't play like a DP this year, he shouldn't be one.

Wooster_TFC
02-17-2012, 10:59 AM
The one thing it emphasized for me was de guzman's complete inability to take any kind of repsonsibility. ooh, the club was chaotic, preki didn't have a clue, the fans are clueless rubes who didn't know what i was supposed to be doing and had totally unreasonable expectations.

fuck right off.

alright, if we go with the "fans expected you to be scoring goals and running the offence, which isn't fair" argument, I'd say no, most fans I think were hoping we might get what we saw in the 07 gold cup, but knew that you were more of a defensive midfielder, in which case, where's the fucking defence been so far mr DP DM?

the only time the defence has looked halfway decent was under the 'amateurish' Preki. hope you and dwayne had a good chuckle about that.

If he was constantly playing you out of position and absolutely terrible, then why when we got winter who "made things easier and more understandable for you" and played you where you wanted to play did we go back to looking like a complete shambles with the league's worst goal differential.

any responsibility to take for that at all? doesn't look like it to me, so if it's unrealistic to expect you to be the offensive star, and the best defence we've had was when you were being played out of position by an amateurish coach, then what exactly is it you're here to do de guzman?

"Fit and finally on the front foot, there’s no one else to point the finger at."

Oh he'll find someone, don't you worry, he's DP worthy when it comes to throwing people under the bus.

really hope he finally earns this shitty attitude with his on pitch play this year.

I think you are confusing fans and supporters. Realistically, supporters make up what, 10% of the folks that show up on game day? If you aren't in the supporters section and you listen to what folks are saying about DeGuzman, it was usually about the fact that he wasn't doing anything on the attacking side of the ball.

JDG isn't the type of CM that Preki wanted. He wanted destroyers in the middle. Half the time JDG was lined up either as a winger, or a hole player (AM), which he may view as a striker. There was 1 or 2 games where I recall DeRo lining up up top, with JDG behind him, and when that's technically a 4-2-2, that means he's a striker.

I think it was stupid that him and DeRo were essentially laughing at the coach, and yes his attitude doesn't seem ideal, but there are two sides to every story.

I think it can now be put to rest that Preki was the cancer, and really, took this team back all the way to an essentially expansion team when Winter showed up.

Wooster_TFC
02-17-2012, 11:02 AM
^ I remember Preki trying JDG as striker once. It was only in one game though, or part of a game even.

JDG does have no excuse at this point. If he doesn't play like a DP this year, he shouldn't be one.

The interesting thing about both this interview with JDG and Mariners interview (both by Larson) is that both sides make it at least seem like they'd entertain the idea of a new contract at non DP levels.

If he continues his improvement from last year (or even stay at the same level), JDG back on a non DP would be an excellent thing.

Oldtimer
02-17-2012, 11:11 AM
The interesting thing about both this interview with JDG and Mariners interview (both by Larson) is that both sides make it at least seem like they'd entertain the idea of a new contract at non DP levels.

If he continues his improvement from last year (or even stay at the same level), JDG back on a non DP would be an excellent thing.

Imagine if Anselmi had fired Mo at the end of season 3 like he should have, and brought in Winter at that point.

TFC had a solid team at that time, with some cap issues mind you, but with great talents like DeRo (not yet fed up with his contract issues), Guevara, etc. With just a bit of re-tooling, TFC could have been solid in year 4. The Preki experiment was an unmitigated disaster, because TFC ended up worse than an expansion team (because TFC still had cap issues and no wad of allocation money that new teams get). Whether that is 100% Preki's fault is beside the point.

I agree with the comments that JDG showed a bad attitude, however I'd cut him some slack because the contrast between Preki and the coaching at Depo must have been startling.

Waggy
02-17-2012, 11:20 AM
^ I remember Preki trying JDG as striker once. It was only in one game though, or part of a game even.

JDG does have no excuse at this point. If he doesn't play like a DP this year, he shouldn't be one.

Not trying to say JDG doesn't have a point about Preki effecting his play. Just that blaming Preki for the off field stuff is bs. Besides, honestly, with JDG's talent relative to the rest of the league I don't think Preki was being crazy or ridiculous trying him out at other more impactful roles. Especially considering our only real strength then was in the midfield. Sometimes a coach puts the team above a player. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Darlofletch
02-17-2012, 11:23 AM
I don't get why this is an either, or situation. The coach is certainly responsible for a split locker room, a coach's main job is people management and if the people aren't getting along it's certainly a failure on their part. The GM is responsible for not assembling the right type of people. The players are responsible for not acting as professionals. Also there was a locker room divide long before Preki got there, and it lasted after he left, until the players unvolved were moved out. JDG was paid to be a leader, as was Dero on that club, and we expected other guys to show some locker room class as well. To me JDG placing all the blame on Preki is indicative of the sort of attitude there was that caused those problems. A rift between the "C'mon guys, lets get our shit together and work hard!" ppl and the guys who were like "We're doing our bit. not our fault our gm is a moron and our coach is an ass"

+1 to all this really, a very fair and nuanced view. Preki obviously pissed a lot of people off, no doubt about that, and for some players, he probably didn't help their game, again no doubt about that (whereas some players have never looked better than they did under preki). firing him was probably for the best given the amount of enemies he'd built. pissing of the higher ups was his big mistake as then players/coaches would know they didn't have to fall in line behind him, that management would have their backs instead.

That's always going to be the case with any coach though, that for some of the players it's not going to be a perfect fit. I'd suggest it's under those circumstances that a players character really shows, and de guzman doesn't make himself look good with his takes of chuckling away with dwayne.

TFC/Everton
02-17-2012, 11:44 AM
^ I remember Preki trying JDG as striker once. It was only in one game though, or part of a game even.

JDG does have no excuse at this point. If he doesn't play like a DP this year, he shouldn't be one.

Agreed

Fort York Redcoat
02-17-2012, 12:06 PM
I don't get why this is an either, or situation. The coach is certainly responsible for a split locker room, a coach's main job is people management and if the people aren't getting along it's certainly a failure on their part. The GM is responsible for not assembling the right type of people. The players are responsible for not acting as professionals. Also there was a locker room divide long before Preki got there, and it lasted after he left, until the players unvolved were moved out. JDG was paid to be a leader, as was Dero on that club, and we expected other guys to show some locker room class as well. To me JDG placing all the blame on Preki is indicative of the sort of attitude there was that caused those problems. A rift between the "C'mon guys, lets get our shit together and work hard!" ppl and the guys who were like "We're doing our bit. not our fault our gm is a moron and our coach is an ass"

A very balanced viewpoint. I'm a big fan.

mastermixer
02-17-2012, 12:11 PM
MLS will be cracking down on dirty tackles this year. Good on them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/soccer-insider/post/mls-planning-to-crack-down-on-reckless-tackles-better-protect-players/2012/02/17/gIQAPIYwJR_blog.html

Yohan
02-17-2012, 12:14 PM
I don't get why this is an either, or situation. The coach is certainly responsible for a split locker room, a coach's main job is people management and if the people aren't getting along it's certainly a failure on their part. The GM is responsible for not assembling the right type of people. The players are responsible for not acting as professionals. Also there was a locker room divide long before Preki got there, and it lasted after he left, until the players unvolved were moved out. JDG was paid to be a leader, as was Dero on that club, and we expected other guys to show some locker room class as well. To me JDG placing all the blame on Preki is indicative of the sort of attitude there was that caused those problems. A rift between the "C'mon guys, lets get our shit together and work hard!" ppl and the guys who were like "We're doing our bit. not our fault our gm is a moron and our coach is an ass"
While a player has the responsibility to act like a pro all the time, he's not necessarily required to be a leader in the locker. Just because you pay him the big bucks, it doesn't make him a leader. Some people are natural leaders; some develop leadership traits. JDG to me, has shown very little leadership trait. (as much as he may be a nice guy IRL)

Yohan
02-17-2012, 12:15 PM
So MLS doesn't bend over backwards for NY after all (just LA ;))

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/02/report-robles-to-red-bulls-called-off.html#more

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 12:18 PM
Imagine if Anselmi had fired Mo at the end of season 3 like he should have, and brought in Winter at that point.

TFC had a solid team at that time, with some cap issues mind you, but with great talents like DeRo (not yet fed up with his contract issues), Guevara, etc. With just a bit of re-tooling, TFC could have been solid in year 4. The Preki experiment was an unmitigated disaster, because TFC ended up worse than an expansion team (because TFC still had cap issues and no wad of allocation money that new teams get). Whether that is 100% Preki's fault is beside the point.


This...and yes I can't get past it.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 12:23 PM
I don't get why this is an either, or situation. The coach is certainly responsible for a split locker room, a coach's main job is people management and if the people aren't getting along it's certainly a failure on their part. The GM is responsible for not assembling the right type of people. The players are responsible for not acting as professionals. Also there was a locker room divide long before Preki got there, and it lasted after he left, until the players unvolved were moved out. JDG was paid to be a leader, as was Dero on that club, and we expected other guys to show some locker room class as well. To me JDG placing all the blame on Preki is indicative of the sort of attitude there was that caused those problems. A rift between the "C'mon guys, lets get our shit together and work hard!" ppl and the guys who were like "We're doing our bit. not our fault our gm is a moron and our coach is an ass"

I could not disagree more about the roles and expectations on a team.

Kaz
02-17-2012, 12:35 PM
Not trying to say JDG doesn't have a point about Preki effecting his play. Just that blaming Preki for the off field stuff is bs. Besides, honestly, with JDG's talent relative to the rest of the league I don't think Preki was being crazy or ridiculous trying him out at other more impactful roles. Especially considering our only real strength then was in the midfield. Sometimes a coach puts the team above a player. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I disagree about trying JDG out in more impactful roles. Think of it like baseball, if you have the best third baseman in the league, and a semi serviceable third basemen.. do you move him to right field and expect him to preform?

Or do you take a great dramatic actor like say, Tom Hanks and have him star in Judge Dredd? or Rambo? or maybe the title role of a Conan the King movie?

a Good DM is not likely going to be a good Striker, if they have never players the role before.

Blizzard
02-17-2012, 12:41 PM
Not trying to say JDG doesn't have a point about Preki effecting his play. Just that blaming Preki for the off field stuff is bs. Besides, honestly, with JDG's talent relative to the rest of the league I don't think Preki was being crazy or ridiculous trying him out at other more impactful roles. Especially considering our only real strength then was in the midfield. Sometimes a coach puts the team above a player. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Regarding the off-field stuff and JDG's comments about Preki, the truth is that Preki was a kingsized asshole who lost the room almost immediately because he was a prick.

Beach_Red
02-17-2012, 12:48 PM
Imagine if Anselmi had fired Mo at the end of season 3 like he should have, and brought in Winter at that point.

TFC had a solid team at that time...

The most shocking is that TFC had a solid team at the time. Imagine how someone picked a guy who had coached a few games at the MLS level and been fired and entrusted him to build an entirely new franchise from the ground up? The surprising thing is that it took so long to be revealed as such an amateur hour. In a lot of organizations the guy who made that hiring decision would have had to answer to someone for it - in this one it looks like he'll be the next CEO.

Ha ha, like Roogsy I'm having trouble getting over it. :D This season really can't start soon enough because it actually does feel really good to finally be going into a season looking prepared and well-run.

Fort York Redcoat
02-17-2012, 12:59 PM
Regarding the off-field stuff and JDG's comments about Preki, the truth is that Preki was a kingsized asshole who lost the room almost immediately because he was a prick.

And, in turn, what does that say about Bob Bradley's Chivas team Preki inherited and won with?

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 01:06 PM
That Bradley did a good job building the team so that they at least survived one good year under Preki before imploding.

We didn't even have that luxury.

What is common between the two is that Preki burned his bridges with players and management at BOTH clubs.

DOMIN8R
02-17-2012, 01:15 PM
I second this. In order to appreciate DeGuzman, you really have to be watching him off the ball followed by what he does with the ball once he gets it. He wasn't present in the first season and a half, but after that (mid-late 2010) he was all there.

I also agree that he isn't worth 1.8Mil. He's a 1.5 dimensional player. I think if he was getting paid the league max - $425 or whatever it is, people might see his value.

Yup x 2

nickio
02-17-2012, 02:01 PM
hmmn, I look at what DeGuzman has acheived in his playing career, and what Preki (did not) achieve in his coaching career and things begin to make sense.

The same reason, as in my field, you don't put a Boeing 747 Captain to fly a cropduster and expect the farmer and him to get along when it comes to questions like safety and so on (relative to performance and skills in Soccer)...

I think that DeGuzman was our forgotten Gem in the midfield and was a difference maker in a few games last season. He is still relatively youngish, well skilled, with a very solid pedigree that really compliments AW's system. With a (hopefully) more solid back-end, players like him him can feel more comfortable on the ball this season, and I think he will come in to his own this year.

Fort York Redcoat
02-17-2012, 02:28 PM
That Bradley did a good job building the team so that they at least survived one good year under Preki before imploding.

We didn't even have that luxury.

What is common between the two is that Preki burned his bridges with players and management at BOTH clubs.

Won't dispute his demeanor but he was head coach 07-09. They placed 1st overall, then 2nd in the west, then crapped out. That's TWO years they excelled before imploding. That only makes the above more incredible.

DangerRed
02-17-2012, 02:30 PM
I think that DeGuzman was our forgotten Gem in the midfield and was a difference maker in a few games last season. He is still relatively youngish, well skilled, with a very solid pedigree that really compliments AW's system. With a (hopefully) more solid back-end, players like him him can feel more comfortable on the ball this season, and I think he will come in to his own this year.

Lio Messi is "relatively youngish" at 24. I'd say that JDG, who turns 31 next month, is "relatively oldish."

I cannot, for the life of me, tell you of any other business I know where you pay someone a superstar salary far above his or her peer group, and then let them blow two years coming into their own -- REGARDLESS of management.

How can we as supporters have patience for someone like him, who has wasted literally millions of club money and is now running around blaming others?

I thought it wasn't the greatest idea for the club to spend a DP slot on a CDM to begin with, and I certainly think it's a bad one for the club to entertain extending his contract given his performance to date as well as these recent comments.

I wish as much as the next guy that he becomes amazing, and there definitely have been flashes of that, I can't deny. I'm just not expecting it.

Redcoe15
02-17-2012, 02:32 PM
Imagine if Anselmi had fired Mo at the end of season 3 like he should have, and brought in Winter at that point.
Imagine if They brought in Winter et al for year one. We never would be in the state of mind Mo Johnston put us through.

Shakes McQueen
02-17-2012, 02:42 PM
Lio Messi is "relatively youngish" at 24. I'd say that JDG, who turns 31 next month, is "relatively oldish."

I cannot, for the life of me, tell you of any other business I know where you pay someone a superstar salary far above his or her peer group, and then let them blow two years coming into their own -- REGARDLESS of management.

How can we as supporters have patience for someone like him, who has wasted literally millions of club money and is now running around blaming others?

I thought it wasn't the greatest idea for the club to spend a DP slot on a CDM to begin with, and I certainly think it's a bad one for the club to entertain extending his contract given his performance to date as well as these recent comments.

I wish as much as the next guy that he becomes amazing, and there definitely have been flashes of that, I can't deny. I'm just not expecting it.

I was one of the people excited when they brought JDG in - a guy to quarterback our defense, and a guy who has demonstrated he can chip in some offense too? Sign me up.

But I'm not averse to saying what we've gotten so far is not even close to what I was expecting. He looked better over the course of last season, but as you said - it's inexcusable that it has taken this long for him to be a solid contributor, let alone a good one. Even worse that he's been collecting huge paycheques at the same time and blaming everyone else for it.

- Scott

nickio
02-17-2012, 02:45 PM
Lio Messi is "relatively youngish" at 24. I'd say that JDG, who turns 31 next month, is "relatively oldish."

I cannot, for the life of me, tell you of any other business I know where you pay someone a superstar salary far above his or her peer group, and then let them blow two years coming into their own -- REGARDLESS of management.

How can we as supporters have patience for someone like him, who has wasted literally millions of club money and is now running around blaming others?

I thought it wasn't the greatest idea for the club to spend a DP slot on a CDM to begin with, and I certainly think it's a bad one for the club to entertain extending his contract given his performance to date as well as these recent comments.

I wish as much as the next guy that he becomes amazing, and there definitely have been flashes of that, I can't deny. I'm just not expecting it.

I definately see what you're trying to say, but realistically - at which point was JDG wrong?

-Taking an awesome offer?
-Playing out of position? (not his choice! for sure)
-Playing through injuries (can happen to any player)
-Being injured and out ...

At which point was JDG supposed to man up and be better?

Or maybe it was management:

-Shit GM
-Shit Coach
-Offered an overblown contract?
-Played him out of position without supporting cast

I think his contract is what we should be angry about, no the player who did what's best for him and his family. And the contract was offered by none other than the management.

It's really rather simple.

drexel10
02-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Two of Mo's biggest mistakes:

1) Bringing in JDG as a DP

2) Bringing in Preki

So it is funny that 1 is blaming 2.

KGH
02-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Does everyone forget that JDG played pretty hurt in season 4 (hammy) and then played the final 2 months of season with a torn minuscous. Last year he spent the first part of the season getting back to form.

I think the JDG of the second half is what we expected, and what he expected to be doing.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 03:33 PM
Won't dispute his demeanor but he was head coach 07-09. They placed 1st overall, then 2nd in the west, then crapped out. That's TWO years they excelled before imploding. That only makes the above more incredible.


It's called diminishing returns. You will notice that they did worse in the succeeding year than in the previous year. Many attribute the initial year's success to the foundations that Bradley had put in place. He systemicatically undid that foundation and it was reflected in his results. Yes it was gradual, but it was also one-directional.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 03:34 PM
Lio Messi is "relatively youngish" at 24. I'd say that JDG, who turns 31 next month, is "relatively oldish."

I cannot, for the life of me, tell you of any other business I know where you pay someone a superstar salary far above his or her peer group, and then let them blow two years coming into their own -- REGARDLESS of management.

How can we as supporters have patience for someone like him, who has wasted literally millions of club money and is now running around blaming others?

I thought it wasn't the greatest idea for the club to spend a DP slot on a CDM to begin with, and I certainly think it's a bad one for the club to entertain extending his contract given his performance to date as well as these recent comments.

I wish as much as the next guy that he becomes amazing, and there definitely have been flashes of that, I can't deny. I'm just not expecting it.

:iagree:

Yohan
02-17-2012, 03:59 PM
http://www.beliefnet.com/Inspiration/Home-Page-News-and-Views/Soccer-Superstar-Clint-Dempsey-Looks-to-Heaven.aspx?p=1

Clint Dempsey story. Good read, even if I still think he's a bit of a twat (but his wife is hot)

ensco
02-17-2012, 03:59 PM
a coach's main job is people management and if the people aren't getting along it's certainly a failure on their part. The GM is responsible for not assembling the right type of people. The players are responsible for not acting as professionals

I disagree that the coach's main job is people management. Talent identification is way more important. So is teaching. People management is an outcome of doing these things well.

Even if you disagree with that, the division of roles you suggest is not what are are getting from WinterMariner. It's a lot more complicated than that, as it was under Mo.

Detroit_TFC
02-17-2012, 04:10 PM
Imagine if They brought in Winter et al for year one. We never would be in the state of mind Mo Johnston put us through.

Anselmi/MLSE mgmt had to learn the difference between the two first.

Shakes McQueen
02-17-2012, 04:22 PM
It's called diminishing returns. You will notice that they did worse in the succeeding year than in the previous year. Many attribute the initial year's success to the foundations that Bradley had put in place. He systemicatically undid that foundation and it was reflected in his results. Yes it was gradual, but it was also one-directional.

Well, in fairness Roogsy, there's nowhere to go from 1st overall but down, unless you manage to finish first overall again.

I don't know if he tore apart the roster in the intervening time between the year they finished 2nd in the West and the following season (I didn't follow Chivas closely), but I don't know that going from best in the league to second best in your division is statistically significant enough to infer that he systematically ruined the roster over three years.

His Chivas team had two good years, then one bad year, then he left "mutually", then got fired after less than a full season here - partially because he made enemies, and probably partly because the team was scrambling to clean house and curb a fan revolt after another poor season. Mo finally being fired the same day would suggest this, too.

Anyway, I don't want to get further involved in this branch of discussion. Preki is gone, and nearly all of the remnants of his team are gone. I've analyzed the wreckage long enough. Perhaps he really just was a lousy manager - his not being offered another head job certainly alludes to it.

I will say our defense was much better under him, and he managed that with less than a year in charge, although it came at the expense of a very interesting offensive attack.

But whatever. Baby bye bye bye.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
02-17-2012, 04:24 PM
Anselmi/MLSE mgmt had to learn the difference between the two first.

I hold MLSE responsible for not having the sense to bring in their own smart soccer people from the get go, but less us not forget they hired Mo at the league's recommendation.

But yes - at least they appear to have learned since then.

- Scott

DangerRed
02-17-2012, 04:40 PM
I definately see what you're trying to say, but realistically - at which point was JDG wrong?

....

I think his contract is what we should be angry about, no the player who did what's best for him and his family. And the contract was offered by none other than the management.

It's really rather simple.

You didn't read what I wrote carefully -- the only thing I blame JDG for is that he's running around, blaming others for his shit performance.

The rest of what I've said boils down to two main points: 1. he's not getting any younger and I have yet to be convinced he can get any better, despite his comments. 2. the club messed up big time signing him to a DP contract.

rocker
02-17-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm not gonna let JDG off the hook for other probs surrounding the team. Frings walked in and immediately made a huge difference for this team, which was still floundering and finding its way. Dichio had to deal with a lot of shit too around him and performed. That's what I expect from a DP -- make a big difference (yeah, I know Dichio wasn't a DP).

Shakes McQueen
02-17-2012, 05:13 PM
Not only that, but Frings and Koevermans came in completely cold, learned a new system, and had to return to match fitness themselves.

- Scott

Dub Narcotic
02-17-2012, 05:57 PM
I can't believe JDG is even being talked about as a DP after this year. He hasn't been good since 2008 and now he's also aging and oft-injured. People have fond memories of his one good year in La Liga and one good Gold Cup but we haven't seen that guy in ages, and he's always treated TFC/MLS as the end-of-the-night hookup he doesn't find very attractive but is left with no other options. Frankly, if he wasn't Canadian, he would have been run out of town long ago.

Roogsy
02-17-2012, 06:06 PM
I'm not gonna let JDG off the hook for other probs surrounding the team. Frings walked in and immediately made a huge difference for this team, which was still floundering and finding its way. Dichio had to deal with a lot of shit too around him and performed. That's what I expect from a DP -- make a big difference (yeah, I know Dichio wasn't a DP).

Bang on.

levyashin
02-17-2012, 06:11 PM
:scarf:after watching declan hill on the mc-idiot show and reading his book;the fix;this guy makes you want to judge every call made by a referee in every game that you watch.also seeing how a (defensive lapse) by a player cost a goal or penalty.if (bladder)is so corrupt then it goes thoughout the associations of the world.the guy heading the corruption scandel gets a trillion dollar job with --quatar---with T.F.C. in the big game will we have an ( unbiased south american referee paid for by uncle DON).take any bets right now on 2 penalties for L.A. and at least 1 red card with 6 yellows.---degusman is worth no more than $200,000.preki was the wrong guy at the wrong time just like mo.for me(MARINER is the brains behind this current squad,look what happened when he left new england to stevie boy they have been a lot worse than we have been.---and thats my rant of the day.

TFCRegina
02-17-2012, 06:12 PM
This forum seems empty without OT. I don't know how I ever was an RU before joining RPB.

TOBOR !
02-17-2012, 07:39 PM
Declan Hill (author of "The Fix") was interviewed yesterday on Prime Time Sports on what current problems are happening with match-fixing in soccer. While he didn't say there was a problem in MLS, he said that some of the CCL matches are being investigated for match fixing. It doesn't seem that any MLS squads are implicated. A must-listen:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20120216_181039_5204

I don`t know if everyone skipped this post, or no-one cares / feels this is worth commenting on.

I listened to this on the way home yesterday. The first thing I noticed was the level of engagement on the subject by the hosts. When they had James Klotz (FIFA IGC member) in the studio last week they thought they were getting insight into match-fixing (not Mr. Klotz's perview). Rather, he is part of the Independent Governance Committee, taked with helping clean FIFA up from the top down.

Now, while match-fixing occurs at ground level, and Ex-Co corruption transpires in the ivory towers, these two issues appear to be on a crash course if, as Declan Hill says, Chris Eaton (FIFA's head of security) has been given the boot.

Could it be that he was getting too close to tying everything back to the fat cats at the top of the heap ?

Early reports indicate that Eaton left his FIFA post to pursue other avenues, which still begs the question : why would he want to leave FIFA.

I'm guessing he was being stonewalled. You have to wonder why.

CSO_BBTB
02-18-2012, 06:07 AM
....Also I hope someday we see Preki's side of the story. I'd be very interested in that.

Ditto. He was on a three year deal so still a few more months to wait probably. Way too many people parrot what they have been told by insiders with an axe to grind in an uncritical manner. It appeared to me from the outside looking in that management had been convinced by a clique of players and coaches that Preki was the problem and then were alarmed to find that there was no sudden transformation under Dasovic so they took radical action in the shape of bringing in Klinsmann as a consultant. The first few months of Winter were all about getting rid of or sidelining that clique (with the exception of JDG due to the size and guaranteed nature of his contract) so I don't think it's safe to regard their version of events as the gospel truth.

denime
02-18-2012, 07:07 AM
I don`t know if everyone skipped this post, or no-one cares / feels this is worth commenting on.

I listened to this on the way home yesterday. The first thing I noticed was the level of engagement on the subject by the hosts. When they had James Klotz (FIFA IGC member) in the studio last week they thought they were getting insight into match-fixing (not Mr. Klotz's perview). Rather, he is part of the Independent Governance Committee, taked with helping clean FIFA up from the top down.

Now, while match-fixing occurs at ground level, and Ex-Co corruption transpires in the ivory towers, these two issues appear to be on a crash course if, as Declan Hill says, Chris Eaton (FIFA's head of security) has been given the boot.

Could it be that he was getting too close to tying everything back to the fat cats at the top of the heap ?

Early reports indicate that Eaton left his FIFA post to pursue other avenues, which still begs the question : why would he want to leave FIFA.

I'm guessing he was being stonewalled. You have to wonder why.

FIFA problems are to big for us,that's why people don't comment on it.

LesH
02-18-2012, 02:55 PM
I don't care how good JDG will perform this year, I still would not give him a contract over 250,000 per year if he wants to remain at TFC.

This, because making a parallel between the money he got, and how he performed until now and how much impact he made at TFC for the better of the team, no matter how he'll perform this season he'll go down in the history books like one of the worst contracts ever made by TFC (lots of money for little, if you prefer).

And will be an absolute shocker if he'll take 250,000 per year to remain at TFC after being used to millions year after year!