Putting an MLS franchise in Toronto is a pretty terrible idea.

[Azerban]

Lets take a trip in the wayback machine (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-347792.html)!


But while the inability to win championships doesn't seem to be hurting the Leafs in the pocketbook, it's a safe bet everything will have to go right on the soccer front if MLSE hopes to make money on the team rather than lose it.


Peddie slouches, fiddles with his glasses and gives his take in a relaxed drawl. "We fully expect this to be a home run," he says. "It won't be an immediate one, but 10 years from now, absolutely." According to Peddie, the company hopes the new team -- whose name will be selected later this month -- will turn a profit in three or four years and win a championship in five.


These managers agree that with soccer's slim -- or non-existent -- profit margins, MLSE may never make back the US$10 million franchise fee and annual US$2.5 million donation to the league.


Meanwhile, Hartrell says few kids who play soccer have passion for the game. Parents see it as babysitting and won't pay to sit in the stands. "Unless they put hockey players on the team, they're not going to get the people they think they're going to get," he says. "They have to learn how to sell a ticket."

[Shaughno]

Now THIS is a good way to start a new thread. Big props.

[ilikemusic]

:rofl:

I think alot of people in the media have had to eat alot of crow since Toronto FC got going. Alot of the media dinosaurs really showed how out of touch they were with their lack of respect for this franchise.

:D

[yellowfellow]

Anyone knows if Bob McCowan changes his view on soccer yet? That guy is annoying...

[Carts]

Its unreal to read those quotes...

Totally amazing to see how much they underestimated the market and love for footy here...

Many members of the media have eaten crow, some still need to - and admit that this is not a trend, its becoming part of the Toronto Sports Scene...

Carts...

[Laurignano]

Wow I can't believe that. Its amazing to see how far we've come! Toronto FC is worth a lot of money, but I hope Toronto FC starts to make history in the record books for on the pitch performance soon enough.

[ilikemusic]

Anyone knows if Bob McCowan changes his view on soccer yet? That guy is annoying...

Hes toned down almost all of his 'anti-soccer' rhetoric.

He still readily admits he doesnt follow, understand, or much care for the sport on any level (he called the Champions Leauge the Chumps League because 4th place Liverpool and like 6th place AC Milan were competing in it) but he has seemed to make a complete about face about his respect for the game. Seems like more of a protective measure on his part, but he has definately softened his tone.

The deluge of emails from around the world after his interviews with George Gillette I think have helped changed his mind a fair bit as well. I think he said that was the most responded to, and most talked about program he has ever done.

Bob dislikes soccer but it doesnt bother me. I personally think hes a great radio personality, and the fact that he has Ben Knight as such a regular contributor gives him some leeway to take the occasional jab at the game.

For all the Champions Leauge and Euro coverage though TSN has been really underwhelming in terms of their comlpete lack of coverage of TFC. It seems like it doesnt even register on TSN's radar, which I find very dissappointing.

[Azerban]

hey get on google for like 10 minutes and find some more things we would find humourous now. like someone calling welsh a talented winger, or someone lauding the effectiveness of the canadian shield(tm). newspapers, blogs, whatever.


Bruno Hartrell, owner of the Lynx, has been vocal in his opposition to MLS expanding into Toronto. "If they think there's money in soccer (in Toronto), they've misjudged the market terribly," he told Slam Sports, a Canadian web site, before Saturday's announcement.

http://www.soccertimes.com/mls/2005/nov14.htm



The Toronto FC have signed Chris Pozniak, Adam Braz, and Marco Reda.
Braz played with the Montreal Impact. Both Pozniak and Reda most recently played in Europe, but also played professionally with the Toronto Lynx.
Or so I thought.
Marco Reda had this to say about coming to play in Toronto with the FC: “Having never experienced professional football in Toronto before, this is a really nice change for me.”
What? Excuse me?
Never experienced professional football in Toronto? Was the Toronto Lynx a charity team you played for? Perhaps you weren’t paid Marco, but people paid to come and see the team play. And yes, by the way players were paid to play for the Lynx.

http://michaelcollins.wordpress.com/category/mls-major-league-soccer/page/2/

[jloome]

See, the problem is as someone who has worked in newsrooms with sportos for 20 years, I can tell you they don't really care that they were wrong; in fact, what pisses them off isn't the fact of their ineptitude as reporters and columnists, it's the fact that the team is succeeding. I'd say three out of four reporters I've ever talked to is a total North American sports snob, and the fourth is usually pretty good.

[jloome]

If you really want to see someone talking out of their ass about TFC, just check out anything Steve Simmons from the Sun wrote about the team, including his suggestion they should be called Toronto FS for "failing soon".

This one's nice, though...

FROM MLS.com freelancer Tino Palace in 2006:

If New York head coach Mo Johnston ends up getting cut loose prematurely, some other MLS team is gonna get awful lucky. Heck, if I am the Toronto ownership, I'd try and sign him now and pay him to sit on the beach for a season ... although Frank Yallop will also make some sense for that job, you'd think.

[Oldtimer]

Post of the year, Azerban.

My favourite quote:


In order to churn out these future profits, the company must first draw people to the game. "We've got to get out there and really engage clubs and associations," Peddie says, noting that there will be no big windfall from corporate boxes. Instead, the company plans to price tickets cheaply (probably less than $20), promote the team at kids' soccer games and pack the stands via group sales. As for the TV soccer lovers? "The European soccer fan that has a relationship with a club back home is more of a secondary market," says Anselmi. "They mesh, they overlap," pipes in Peddie. Indeed, MLSE seems to have subtle hopes of wooing Old World fans by hyping its players' ethnicity. Peddie says his dream team would be a roster of second-generation Canadians, one each from Italy, Portugal, the U.K., Jamaica, Brazil and Greece.Good thing Peddie let Paul B. run things. Otherwise we would be a soccer mom stadium just like every other MLS city.

[James Oliphant]

Its unreal to read those quotes...

Totally amazing to see how much they underestimated the market and love for footy here...

Didn't we all? I was on the old forums in 2006, and half the topics were expressing shock at how well the season tickets were selling.

[AL-MO]

Its unreal to read those quotes...

Totally amazing to see how much they underestimated the market and love for footy here...

Many members of the media have eaten crow, some still need to - and admit that this is not a trend, its becoming part of the Toronto Sports Scene...

Carts...


I think you know some personally!:devil:

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

Anyone knows if Bob McCowan changes his view on soccer yet? That guy is annoying...

he really needs a disease that eats away and right fukks up his larynx

[Marco2K]

You know why they are wrong?


CAUSE "WE" are the BEST FANS IN THE MLS.


THATS WHY.

MLSE are a bunch of FUCKIN TWATS!!

[Carts]

I think you know some personally!:devil:

Exactly why I wrote it that way... :D

Carts...

[Cashcleaner]

I think that many of us are gonna have to come out and admit that the level of support we're seeing for Toronto FC is beyond expectations. Of course, the sport is still fighting for more exposure in a hockey-mad town, but I agree somewhat that the media is really dragging its feet on covering TFC, the league, and the sport in general.

All said, three years ago would we really have thought BMO Field would be selling out consistently? I remember our first meeting of the RPBs and back then we weren't even sure we would get 50 members to share our section with.

[Keystone FC]

:rofl:

I think alot of people in the media have had to eat alot of crow since Toronto FC got going. Alot of the media dinosaurs really showed how out of touch they were with their lack of respect for this franchise.

:D


No wonder Bitchy is looking a bit thin these days. All the sports writers are eating her dinner.:rolleyes:

[VPjr]

No wonder Bitchy is looking a bit thin these days. All the sports writers are eating her dinner.:rolleyes:

brilliant

[TFC07]

Remember when MLSE was thinking about calling our team Inter Toronto FC?

[greatwhitenorf]

It's quite hilarious to see the sheer terror this sport has inflicted on established members of the Toronto sports media. Some, like those who work for a Rogers entity, like Fan radio or Sportsnet, are obligated to hype the sports the station or network owns the broadcast rights to.

Listen to the Fan throughout the day and you'll hear them try to prompt callers on a steady diet of issues involving baseball, basketball, Argos and hockey. They do game coverage of the first three.

Try getting in to speak on air about soccer and the call screener will tell you as you get rejected that "Sorry, but we're really just focusing on issues the host has prepared himself for during this segment. Try calling back later/tomorrow." Of course, that day/opportunity never comes.

They love to deny this, but this fact is true: Soccer is far too much of a threat to the long-term security of the Jays and Argos for them to help it along by allowing casual discussion at any hour of the day. Especially when the stadium TFC plays in is a competitor to the dome.

On a related matter, I have it on very, very good authority - got it first hand, face to face, from someone sitting as high as you can go in this city - that stadium capacity will be expanded very soon via a second tier on the east side. But when the grass pitch/winter dome to Lamport issue was brought up, got nothing but waffling.

A year and a half in and we're seeing plans for stadium expansion going into action already. I'd be happier if we heard they were locking in the stadium dimensions by building on the north and south end. And preserving the lovely view of the city skyline.

That would mean no football. Expansion down the sides leaves a whole lot of possibilities.

[tfctillidie]

I had no doubt in my mind back in 2006 that footy will be well received here in Toronto...and I'm glad Inter Toronto FC wasn't chosen hahaha...Toronto FC all the way!!!

[Cashcleaner]

It's quite hilarious to see the sheer terror this sport has inflicted on established members of the Toronto sports media. Some, like those who work for a Rogers entity, like Fan radio or Sportsnet, are obligated to hype the sports the station or network owns the broadcast rights to.

Listen to the Fan throughout the day and you'll hear them try to prompt callers on a steady diet of issues involving baseball, basketball, Argos and hockey. They do game coverage of the first three.

Try getting in to speak on air about soccer and the call screener will tell you as you get rejected that "Sorry, but we're really just focusing on issues the host has prepared himself for during this segment. Try calling back later/tomorrow." Of course, that day/opportunity never comes.

They love to deny this, but this fact is true: Soccer is far too much of a threat to the long-term security of the Jays and Argos for them to help it along by allowing casual discussion at any hour of the day. Especially when the stadium TFC plays in is a competitor to the dome.

On a related matter, I have it on very, very good authority - got it first hand, face to face, from someone sitting as high as you can go in this city - that stadium capacity will be expanded very soon via a second tier on the east side. But when the grass pitch/winter dome to Lamport issue was brought up, got nothing but waffling.

A year and a half in and we're seeing plans for stadium expansion going into action already. I'd be happier if we heard they were locking in the stadium dimensions by building on the north and south end. And preserving the lovely view of the city skyline.

That would mean no football. Expansion down the sides leaves a whole lot of possibilities.

I would have to disagree on a few points. I think the Jays and Argos have realised that they're better off not competing with Toronto FC and I think that's reflected in their season schedules. Last year, I was able to make it to quite a few Jays and Argos games because when we they were playing at home while we (TFC) were playing away. Yes, all three clubs are trying to compete for our dollars, but some accomodations have been made as well.

[James Oliphant]

City leaps into unknown
By KEN FIDLIN, TORONTO SUN


During more than four hours of passionate debate, Kevan Pipe's body language was the only gauge anyone needed to judge the tone of the argument.

Pipe, the CEO of the Canadian Soccer Association, and arguably the individual with the most to lose if city council voted down a stadium deal that melds three levels of government with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., was living and dying on every word.

"It's been three years, one month and 28 days coming together, but who's counting," a much-relieved Pipe said just moments after city council voted 25-13 to kick in $9.8 in cash and land worth $10 million to build a 20,000-seat stadium that will be the centrepiece of the FIFA World Under-20 championship in 2007.

"The face of our sport in Canada has just changed in the last 15 minutes," said Pipe. "The Mayor was right when he said this is about vision-building. We're bringing the world to Toronto. A billion people will be watching on TV and thousands more will come to the city.

"And that's just the start. We've been offered the 2009 CONCACAF Gold Cup and we're going after the 2011 Women's World Cup."


There were times, though, through the lengthy debate that Pipe looked as if he might be in need of a tall building to jump off when the results were in.

While the project had the unflagging support of Mayor David Miller and his deputy Joe Pantalone, who had fast-tracked the project over the last two weeks, many councillors were bitterly opposed on a variety of levels.

Some objected to the public sector jumping into bed with MLSEL, very much a free-enterprise operation. For others, this hasty process comes to soon after the findings of the Bellamy report in the wake of the city hall computer scandal.

"This is so wrong," Scarboro-Agincourt councillor Mike DelGrande said. "It's so bad, that as a forensics auditor, I would have to question this deal. There's nothing in writing on anything.

"How come this project didn't go through a regular process? Is this open and transparent? How can you make it open and transparent by not allowing anyone else in to bid?"

Beyond that others, like Etobicoke's Rob Ford wondered how Toronto could even consider this project, given its fragile financial situation.

"This is a sucker stadium, not a soccer stadium," Ford said. "We are going to lose our shirts."

In addition to the city's $19.8 million commitment of money and land, the federal government has committed $27 million, and the Ontario government $8 million. MLSEL is in for $8 million and will market the naming rights for an anticipated $10 million.

Even though MLSEL, which will build and manage the stadium, has accepted responsibility for any construction over-runs and has agreed to share any profits and will swallow the first $250,000 of any operating losses, many in the room maintained a healthy dose of skepticism.

"This is a bad process that produced a bad deal for the city and its taxpayers," councillor Sylvia Watson said.

Many councillors favoured deferring the issue for more study but that effectively would have killed the deal. Major League Soccer conveniently had imposed a deadline for the end of the month on MLSEL's tentative agreement to get an expansion franchise. And FIFA, the world governing body of soccer, has been breathing down Pipe's neck for months now, worried that facilities were not going to be up to snuff for the world under-20 championship.

In the gallery, Pipe was confident at the start of the debate that the project already had enough committed votes. But as the day progressed, he sensed more opposition than he had expected.

"I've not experienced this before, so I didn't know what to think," he said. "You just never know how it's going to turn out."

And that's what haunted many of the councillors last evening. They don't know how it's going to turn out. Perhaps Howard Moscoe said it best.

"I'm leery about public-private projects which inevitably become public-pirate projects," he said.

Oh my, how I hate Rob Ford.

[twistedchinaman]

Oh my, how I hate Rob Ford.


Oh yeah, Mr. Fathead "I Love Thems Orientals" Ford.

We love you too -- while we're cleaning up after your drunken puke, you fat pig.

[greatwhitenorf]

Cash.cleaner: Competition between the Jays, Argos and TFC doesn't just exist for today's sports consumer dollars. It's really about where interests are directed long-term.

The better TFC does over a five or ten year period DESPITE the near total absence of casual sports radio discussions or proper coverage of games and players, the more worrisome it becomes for the teams in other sports.

There's always been safety in numbers because numbers don't lie. Let's do some math.

Soccer's number of registered players across the country is rocketing toward the one million mark. Could hit it within three years, within five for sure.

Hockey people are quietly shitting themselves at the sight of male registered players seriously declining in numbers. More than 10% over the past decade Only an upturn in registered female players has kept the overall numbers of registered players level with numbers that existed for hockey more than a decade ago.

Somewhere around '96-97, the two sports reached parity in numbers of registered players - just over the half million mark nationally. Now, a decade later, soccer is on the verge of doubling hockey's numbers. It's a trend that isn't going backwards and the people that own TFC - MLSE - are concerned enough about what might happen to their blue-chip property - the Leafs - that they're in the midst of studying how to find ways to encourage Canadian newcomers to get involved in playing hockey.

Football? Don't make me laugh. The numbers of registered players in recreational or youth competitive leagues are almost impossible to find. My high school in North York used to have junior AND senior football teams. Hockey, too. They dropped both sports some years ago but now have similar programs nowadays in soccer, rugby, cricket and lacrosse. This has happened at many high schools. Football is not growing at the grassroots level in this region.

And baseball continues to struggle to maintain what little levels of recreational players they currently have registered. Stats are very hard to come by, but the number of teams or players in competitive leagues is not growing like it is in soccer.

I think it's fair to say that basketball, while far below hockey or soccer's number of participants, continues to grow in popularity. It's a game with global appeal.

If you own the Argos, Blue Jays or even the Leafs, you have to be keeping all these trends in mind. You're trying to make money and create long-term security for your property and here's this uppity soccer competitor back yet AGAIN to ruffle everyone's feathers and have sponsors looking them over. And doing better than ever, with a strong likelihood of seeing two more cities join them in MLS, putting even more stress on the struggling CFL.

So you use every ounce of leverage you have to counter the relentless pull of soccer. If that means quietly manipulating how certain media entities cover local sports, then you do it. You do it to promote the properties you have current deals with.

They did it before TFC arrived, they've done it since opening kickoff last year and they'll persist until the tipping point is reached. Which is fast approaching.

[Juanito]

To be honest, I DON'T WANT HOCKEY TO FAIL. I don't think it will because it has been traditionally Canada's game. However, football (soccer) is a global game and has global appeal so it makes sense that Canadians of European and Latin American heritages love the sport. Also, a lot of our immigration is from Asia where football is either king or is at least widely accepted as a global sport whereas North American sports don't give them the "warm and fuzzies" like football can. The balance of power will shift towards football soon.

What ticks me off are the deuchebags, especially TSN that look down at football because they are trying to save their previous investments and because they are a bunch of morons!

I wish Sportsnet takes the initiative and increases their football coverage to beyond Saturday and has a show focused on the MLS. We would all watch it, we would, and should support this type on initiative and believe me, once we have the numbers, we can do it!

[Rudi]

"This is a sucker stadium, not a soccer stadium," Ford said. "We are going to lose our shirts."kSRhMuZoRrc

46 seconds in. :D:D

[Gobi]

F***king Gold!

[redcard]

Oh yeah, Mr. Fathead "I Love Thems Orientals" Ford.

We love you too -- while we're cleaning up after your drunken puke, you fat pig.

I am not surprised by Ford's comments, I live in his consituency, he shit done in the are, but folks he is hard core football fan...thats the pointy ball football.

I think he still coaches at Don Bosco Secondary, he even pumped his own money into that schools program...so i am not surprised he was not a fan of real football.

[Tyler Durden]

[quote=jrtomasino;85426]
What ticks me off are the deuchebags, especially TSN that look down at football because they are trying to save their previous investments and because they are a bunch of morons!
quote]


TSN are balls at providing any, ANY coverage on TFC.....you would think the amount of times "sportscenter" is on in a day that they would showcase the number one sport in Toronto in the summer months....but noooo....and why the hell doesnt Landsberg on OTR have any players come on? Im sure he's been hit with numerous emails about it.....

things that make you go hmmmmm

[Keystone FC]

Remember when MLSE was thinking about calling our team Inter Toronto FC?
:hide: I don't even want to think back to that time. You want to talk about a house divided. I think alot of people were afraid that the MLS would become something of warehouse league full of clubs with European club names. At the time we had Real Salt Lake and the Red Bull energy drink I think had just bought the MetroStars.
The rumor got out that Inter Toronto was being looked at VERY hard and the forums went insane with Inter Milan haters saying they would never support the Toronto club if that was the name. Threats were made daily on MLSE...hmmm...well maybe things haven't changed that much.