PDA

View Full Version : Interesting view of MLS from an agent's POV



Yohan
01-28-2012, 06:16 PM
Pretty interesting read

http://www.examiner.com/soccer-in-national/international-players-deals-and-mls-interview-with-agent-mike-wheeler

DOMIN8R
01-28-2012, 06:47 PM
Nice find. Thanks.

Waggy
01-28-2012, 06:50 PM
Definitely interesting. I feel like Canadian teams should be able to exploit everything this guy's saying. Want the media coverage of the US without the economic turmoil, crappy health care and education system and a place that's more welcoming to immigration? Welcome aboard!

ag futbol
01-28-2012, 07:08 PM
Good interview. Time for MLS to do away with the cutting of players mid season. Unattractive proposition for all involved really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we actually didn't cut anyone last season. Smart move by mgt

ensco
01-28-2012, 07:23 PM
Great article.

God, this league has potential if they can get the economic model right.

Waggy
01-28-2012, 07:30 PM
Good interview. Time for MLS to do away with the cutting of players mid season. Unattractive proposition for all involved really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we actually didn't cut anyone last season. Smart move by mgt

What they should do is guarantee the money, not the contract. Make it like baseball where you buy a player out. So TFC wants to cut player x in July who is still owed 50k, that's fine. You just have to pay the player the 50k (not against the cap) and he's free to sign elsewhere/the team is free to sign someone else

ensco
01-28-2012, 08:35 PM
What they should do is guarantee the money, not the contract. Make it like baseball where you buy a player out. So TFC wants to cut player x in July who is still owed 50k, that's fine. You just have to pay the player the 50k (not against the cap) and he's free to sign elsewhere/the team is free to sign someone else

That would be great. Same impact as increasing the cap though.

Auzzy
01-28-2012, 09:00 PM
I thought the option of cutting players in the middle of the season was gone since the last CBA. There's a date near the beginning of the season when the roster is set, and after that, nobody on the roster can get dropped until the end of the year. Or is that only for players above a certain age, or who have played in MLS a certain number of years?

I just checked Wiki, Ilija Stolica who was mentioned in the article, was cut July 1 2011 from the Revs, when he was 32. So I guess he wasn't in the MLS long enough yet -- wow I didn't realize it was still possible to cut someone then.

But why are their agents agreeing to semi-guaranteed contracts for players coming from overseas?

Auzzy
01-28-2012, 09:10 PM
What a freaking stupid term anyway, "semi-guaranteed." If it's semi, it's not guaranteed. Makes about as much sense as being a little bit pregnant.

prizby
01-28-2012, 10:05 PM
What a freaking stupid term anyway, "semi-guaranteed." If it's semi, it's not guaranteed. Makes about as much sense as being a little bit pregnant.

its not guaranteed up until july x, after that day it is guaranteed...what would you call it?

ag futbol
01-28-2012, 11:16 PM
But why are their agents agreeing to semi-guaranteed contracts for players coming from overseas?
Sounds like a few of these agents are guilty of doing a piss-poor job on brushing up on MLS contract conditions.

On the other hand it could be a matter of desperation as well. Make no mistake a lot of these guys have trouble establishing themselves as professionals and MLS may represent a high-risk yet potentially rewarding opportunity.

Canary10
01-28-2012, 11:19 PM
What a freaking stupid term anyway, "semi-guaranteed." If it's semi, it's not guaranteed. Makes about as much sense as being a little bit pregnant.

"Are there big coincidences and small coincidences or just coincidences?"

Sorry, that Seinfeld quote is dating me a bit.

Oldtimer
01-29-2012, 12:05 AM
very good read. Thank-you.

Waggy
01-29-2012, 12:06 PM
That would be great. Same impact as increasing the cap though.

No matter how high the cap is teams will alway want to be able to cut players. Look at the NFL, or even MLB (which doesn't have a cap). Sometimes you need a roster spot more than the money, or cap relief or whatever.

Roogsy
01-29-2012, 01:18 PM
Definitely interesting. I feel like Canadian teams should be able to exploit everything this guy's saying. Want the media coverage of the US without the economic turmoil, crappy health care and education system and a place that's more welcoming to immigration? Welcome aboard!

I made posts very similar to this article 3 years ago and when I raised this opportunity directly with TFC they said they didn't want to look to South America. Thankfully they realized their mistake but once again we're seeing the lack ofvision and foresight this organization has.

As for advantages you point to, health care is not one of them. The CBA covers health insurance and if you have insurance in the US, coverage and service is better than Canada. Our system is better for society because we try not to leave residents without coverage whereas theirs does not. But MLS players don't have to worry about that so no advantage there.

The economic turmoil is not an advantage either since there is no increased protection for their employment or contracts if they play in the US or Canada.

And the same for immigration.

There is also the disadvantage of the higher cost of living in Toronto. Their contracts go a heck of lot further down there than up here (except for NY). And with a strengthening C$ it is getting worse.

Where we have an advantage is over cities other than LA or NY in terms of profile. And if given enough time, players come to love our city as a great place to live. It has everything. But they have to come here first to realize that.

Beach_Red
01-29-2012, 01:34 PM
No matter how high the cap is teams will alway want to be able to cut players. Look at the NFL, or even MLB (which doesn't have a cap). Sometimes you need a roster spot more than the money, or cap relief or whatever.

Some teams will want to, yes, but that's the main reason for the single-entity league. So far we've seen a couple of teams pressure the league to make changes (LA to get the DP rule and NY to increase the number of DPs allowed) but most teams don't want to increase their expenses. MLSE will usually be a mid-to-upper half of the spenders, never leading the way like La and NY but never being in the bottom half either. So, once in a while they'll get lucky, get a good coach and not suffer serious injuries and maybe win a cup.

And Roogsy, this is a league initiative, isn't it? Not a team decision.

ag futbol
01-29-2012, 01:40 PM
No matter how high the cap is teams will alway want to be able to cut players. Look at the NFL, or even MLB (which doesn't have a cap). Sometimes you need a roster spot more than the money, or cap relief or whatever.
I understand where they are coming from, but those leagues don't have to worry about competing for talent globally the way MLS does. I can also sympathize with throwing athletes making millions out on their ass if they don't do their job, more-so than the average MLS guy, who in most cases are earning less than the league minimum in the NFL or MLB.

Really this is all about protecting MLS from itself. A lot of these owners are used to being heavy-handed because the other leagues they operate in are at the pinnacle and basically monopoloies of their sports. No MLS team will ever be subject to those types of conditions.

Waggy
01-29-2012, 02:35 PM
I made posts very similar to this article 3 years ago and when I raised this opportunity directly with TFC they said they didn't want to look to South America. Thankfully they realized their mistake but once again we're seeing the lack ofvision and foresight this organization has.

As for advantages you point to, health care is not one of them. The CBA covers health insurance and if you have insurance in the US, coverage and service is better than Canada. Our system is better for society because we try not to leave residents without coverage whereas theirs does not. But MLS players don't have to worry about that so no advantage there.

The economic turmoil is not an advantage either since there is no increased protection for their employment or contracts if they play in the US or Canada.

And the same for immigration.

There is also the disadvantage of the higher cost of living in Toronto. Their contracts go a heck of lot further down there than up here (except for NY). And with a strengthening C$ it is getting worse.

Where we have an advantage is over cities other than LA or NY in terms of profile. And if given enough time, players come to love our city as a great place to live. It has everything. But they have to come here first to realize that.


Def remember you being on that bandwagon. But on the pro sports healthcare plans, Dirk Hayhurst (former Jays bullpen/farmhand) actually tweeted on that the other day coincidently enough

https://twitter.com/#!/TheGarfoose/status/162638186789609472

https://twitter.com/#!/TheGarfoose/status/162637693052928000

"I want universal health care because American insurance companies are thieves, glorified thieves. I've had Big League insurance and personal bare coverage plans and they both pretend they have no idea you've been billed."


But when I'm talking about economic and health care advantages I don't mean so much for the player themselves but their families. Where can their brother or wife get a better job? If you were from another place objectively looking at which of Canada or the US would be better to raise a family both right now and going forward I'd think the answer in almost every category would be Canada. But it's completely up to the team to sell players on that. It's not like non Canadians are really aware of things here.

We should be treating prospective MLS players like big time college recruits rather than pro athletes. Bring them to the city, show them around, take them out for a good time. Explain the reasons for higher taxes (which I'm sure is a HUGE deterent) and what you get out of them. Sell the city and the lifestyle as compared to the states instead of just the organization, facilities and teammates.

Oldtimer
01-29-2012, 02:49 PM
I made posts very similar to this article 3 years ago and when I raised this opportunity directly with TFC they said they didn't want to look to South America. Thankfully they realized their mistake but once again we're seeing the lack ofvision and foresight this organization has.



Unless you were talking with Earl Cochrane, there pretty well is a whole new bunch of decision-makers there, so it's not surprising that they might consider a different strategy from our friend Mo Johnston and his crew.

... and of course you were 100% right. The best MLS sides have usually poached players from South America. DC United built a whole dynasty and many cups both domestic and international having a South American-flavoured squad playing possession-based football. I used to love watching them before TFC came on the scene, they certainly were the best MLS team in that era.

Roogsy
01-29-2012, 06:49 PM
DC was my favourite team as well. Re TFC some decision-makers in addition to Earl that should have been dumped are still there.

Waggy, I am not saying the disadvantages we have cannot be overcome. I was simply addressing the stated advantages we have were not as favourable as they seemed to be.

Regarding health care American health care and insurance companies are a nightmare sure but the perception is still generally not like the one of the former Jay. And at the end of the day perception is reality. As long as incoming players don't have to pay for their own health care, the US has the advantage.