Amway Canadian Championship 2012

[ouderwien]

It looks like the schedule has been posted for the Voyageur Cup this year and we are paired with Montreal for the semi-finals. I originally posted this in the news but I figured we could get some discussion out of it.

I originally thought that we would have FC Edmonton again because the MLS would be seeded: TFC, Vancouver, Montreal.

However it seems they seeded it according to the NASL seeds.

What do you guys think of playing Montreal five times this season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Canadian_Championship
http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/2012/01/2012-amway-canadian-championship
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?2741-CSA-confirms-Voyageur-Cup-fixtures



SEMI-FINALS

2 May:
Impact Montréal v Toronto FC – in Montréal
FC Edmonton v Vancouver Whitecaps FC – in Edmonton

9 May:
Toronto FC v Impact Montréal – in Toronto
Vancouver Whitecaps FC v FC Edmonton – in Vancouver

FINAL:

16 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 1 v Winner of Semi-Final 2 – Location TBD

23 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 2 v Winner of Semi-Final 1 – Location TBD

[__wowza]

Haha and I titled the thread wrong.

i was just going to ask when amway bought the rights.
welp.. looks like we're going to have to hold them to 5 winless games.

[Gallade]

honestly, I'm not happy; with the offseason Vancouver has had, you could definitely make the case that the two best teams in the tournament are facing each other in the semi-final. combine that with the Montreal Overload factor...

hope we can win it anyway.

[sully]

As the no. 1 seed, how come Toronto isn't playing the 4th place seed (Edmonton) in the semi-final?

[Red CB Toronto]

As the no. 1 seed, how come Toronto isn't playing the 4th place seed (Edmonton) in the semi-final?

They are going with where the teams finished in their respective leagues in 2011.

[ouderwien]

As the no. 1 seed, how come Toronto isn't playing the 4th place seed (Edmonton) in the semi-final?

The way I understand it is that the tournament is seeded

1)MLS
2)MLS
3)NASL
4)NASL

So they are instead of placing Montreal as a third MLS spot, they are taking the standings from last season, so FC Edmonton placed higher than Montreal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_North_American_Soccer_League_season

[Red CB Toronto]

The way I understand it is that the tournament is seeded

1)MLS
2)MLS
3)NASL
4)NASL

So they are instead of placing Montreal as a third MLS spot, they are taking the standings from last season, so FC Edmonton placed higher than Montreal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_North_American_Soccer_League_season

Yes that is correct, they are going by 2011 standings, not what league you are in this year. So in 2013 we know for sure Edmonton will be the 4th seed as they will be the only D2 team in the tourney.

[Oldtimer]

i was just going to ask when amway bought the rights.
welp.. looks like we're going to have to hold them to 5 winless games.

It is the Amway Championship. However, they didn't have to fight with Nutrilite to get it, Amway owns the Nutrilite corp.

[ForestGlade]

So no matter what Edmonton does in NASL, they'll always be ranked 4th in the V-Cup? Huh

[Yagbod]

American Way Canadian Championship. <--- stupidest name ever.

Justifiable face palm::picard:

Long live the Voyageurs Cup!!! <---extremely cool name, should be universally used.

[Carts]

So no matter what Edmonton does in NASL, they'll always be ranked 4th in the V-Cup? Huh

Unless they win it... Ya, they'll be 4th...

[werewolf]

8uRd-MuODV0

[MartinUtd]

So the NCC is now the ACC?

http://skepticalteacher.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/conspiracy.jpg

[Ryan1984]

isn't the ACC that thing they play hockey and basketball in?

[prizby]

8uRd-MuODV0

my turkish isn't that great

can u explain whats happening

[Ajax TFC]

I guess this means it'll be TFC vs FC Edmonton in the final

[Kaz]

Yes that is correct, they are going by 2011 standings, not what league you are in this year. So in 2013 we know for sure Edmonton will be the 4th seed as they will be the only D2 team in the tourney.

Unless Ottawa gives up it's expansion, they are set to start play in 2013, which would had a 5 team.

There is still talk of Hamilton fighting for a place too.

I still hope at least one or more of either Victoria, Winnipeg, Halifax, and St John's goes after a spot too. Would love to see it become a 6-8 team competition.

(please note I pulled the city names out of my arse)

[Lucky Strike]

http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/sports/the-csas-cynical-cup-decision/ (http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/sports/the-csas-cynical-cup-decision/)

According to a blog entry from Kurtis Larson, the seeds for the 2012 edition of the Canadian Championship are out and are as follows:

1. TFC
2. Vancouver
3. Edmonton
4. Montreal

Did you also do a double-take? I did. TFC is slated to face off against Montreal instead of Edmonton. Why you ask? Because Edmonton placed higher in the 2011 NASL season than Montreal did, the CSA contends.

However, the seedings from the 2011 Canadian Championship were:

1. TFC (champions)
2. Vancouver (2nd place in 2010 NCC)
3. Montreal (3rd place in 2010 NCC)
4. Edmonton (newcomers to NCC)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Canadian_Championship

Now all of a sudden, the CSA decide to change how teams are ranked (by league position rather than previous NCC position). This rather conveniently arranges and guarantees an obvious heated first round between TFC and Montreal which was missing from the 2011 edition of the NCC.

How can the CSA defend its position to suddenly change the rules and seed teams based on league position? And how can you even compare league positions when the four teams are spread across two different leagues (MLS and NASL)?

Obviously now as an MLS team, it's not unreasonable to claim that Montreal will be a lot tougher to play against than if it were still in the NASL. So the CSA purposely made the seeding unfair just to have the TFC-Montreal rivalry in the first round rather than wanting to send Canada's top team (whoever that will turn out to be) to the CONCACAF Champions League.

Having a Canadian team perform well in the CCL (by having the best possible representative there) is much more important than having a rivalry in the first round of the NCC. Canadian teams which consistently perform well will be a solid position from which to argue Canada deserves more than one slot in the CCL. Whether such logic would be accepted by CONCACAF remains to be seen but the CSA shouldn't close that possibility by not sending Canada's best team to the CCL and instead cashing in on a first round rivalry.

It's a short-sighted decision by the CSA. They guarantee themselves the hype of a first round rivalry but at the expense of handicapping the Canadian "champion" in the CCL.

[Wagner]

but we do save on travel to the west.
just a short flight via Porter (which they can use for NCC).

[Auzzy]

It seems the Towrads aren't doing their job this year.

[__wowza]

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=30704

posted here. unless this is a seperate thread about the conspiracy.

[pdogg]

I don't think they're getting screwed - if you look at how last year (2011 NCC) was set-up, it worked out the exact same way

2010
1. Toronto (only MLS team)
2. Vancouver (USSF D2 - 45 points)
3. Montreal (USSF D2 - 42 Points)
4. Edmonton (No ranking)

We don't have a consolation round to rank the 3rd and 4th placed team, so we have to go back to standings in their respective leagues. In a four team championship, without going back to a round robin with meaningless final games, this is the only fair way to rank them IMO. And in all honesty, unless Edmonton pulls an upset, all three (now) MLS teams will play each other anyways.

[WestStandGeoff]

SEMI-FINALS

2 May:
Impact Montréal v Toronto FC – in Montréal
FC Edmonton v Vancouver Whitecaps FC – in Edmonton

9 May:
Toronto FC v Impact Montréal – in Toronto
Vancouver Whitecaps FC v FC Edmonton – in Vancouver

FINAL:

16 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 1 v Winner of Semi-Final 2 – Location TBD

23 May:
Winner of Semi-Final 2 v Winner of Semi-Final 1 – Location TBD

Does anyone know if the TFC-Limpact series considered "Semi-Final 1", or will the top ranked team automatically get the 2nd leg of the final at home?

[ouderwien]

Does anyone know if the TFC-Limpact series considered "Semi-Final 1", or will the top ranked team automatically get the 2nd leg of the final at home?

I believe the top ranked team will play the 2nd leg at home.

[Oldtimer]

I don't see the seeding as unfair at all. It's harder for TFC, but not unfair. It's based on 2011 rankings, not the current year's perceptions of how strong the team will be. Think about the Edmontonians who finished ahead of Montreal. They deserve a chance to play Vancouver instead of Toronto all the time.

[werewolf]

my turkish isn't that great

can u explain whats happening

The Fenerbahce fans are invading the stadium of Besiktas after the match kicked off.......

The backstory however. At a security meeting the day before the game, it was decided for public safety, the away fans would not be allowed to attend. Both teams are in Istanbul, so they decided to try and go anyway.

[los sonadores]

American Way Canadian Championship. <--- stupidest name ever.

Justifiable face palm::picard:

Long live the Voyageurs Cup!!! <---extremely cool name, should be universally used.

Totally agree. I will wince every time I hear this name. And for sure, I won't be buying anything at Amway.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

id have preferred 4 times not 5. and only play the other dudes in the east twice as well and even it out by playing a few guys out west once

[Canada72]

http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/sports/the-csas-cynical-cup-decision/ (http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/sports/the-csas-cynical-cup-decision/)

According to a blog entry from Kurtis Larson, the seeds for the 2012 edition of the Canadian Championship are out and are as follows:

1. TFC
2. Vancouver
3. Edmonton
4. Montreal

Did you also do a double-take? I did. TFC is slated to face off against Montreal instead of Edmonton. Why you ask? Because Edmonton placed higher in the 2011 NASL season than Montreal did, the CSA contends.

However, the seedings from the 2011 Canadian Championship were:

1. TFC (champions)
2. Vancouver (2nd place in 2010 NCC)
3. Montreal (3rd place in 2010 NCC)
4. Edmonton (newcomers to NCC)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Canadian_Championship

Now all of a sudden, the CSA decide to change how teams are ranked (by league position rather than previous NCC position). This rather conveniently arranges and guarantees an obvious heated first round between TFC and Montreal which was missing from the 2011 edition of the NCC.

How can the CSA defend its position to suddenly change the rules and seed teams based on league position? And how can you even compare league positions when the four teams are spread across two different leagues (MLS and NASL)?

Obviously now as an MLS team, it's not unreasonable to claim that Montreal will be a lot tougher to play against than if it were still in the NASL. So the CSA purposely made the seeding unfair just to have the TFC-Montreal rivalry in the first round rather than wanting to send Canada's top team (whoever that will turn out to be) to the CONCACAF Champions League.

Having a Canadian team perform well in the CCL (by having the best possible representative there) is much more important than having a rivalry in the first round of the NCC. Canadian teams which consistently perform well will be a solid position from which to argue Canada deserves more than one slot in the CCL. Whether such logic would be accepted by CONCACAF remains to be seen but the CSA shouldn't close that possibility by not sending Canada's best team to the CCL and instead cashing in on a first round rivalry.

It's a short-sighted decision by the CSA. They guarantee themselves the hype of a first round rivalry but at the expense of handicapping the Canadian "champion" in the CCL.

With only four teams, this new ranking doesn't bother me. If we can't beat MTL over two legs then we don't deserve to win the Canadian Championship. They could draw names out of a hat for semi finals, in the end, the best team will win (which will be TFC! :) ).

[Chevy]

Totally agree. I will wince every time I hear this name. And for sure, I won't be buying anything at Amway.

You think so? From what I heard you will have to purchase 100 rolls of toilet paper before you're allowed to print out your tickets. :)

[Waggy]

With only four teams, this new ranking doesn't bother me. If we can't beat MTL over two legs then we don't deserve to win the Canadian Championship. They could draw names out of a hat for semi finals, in the end, the best team will win (which will be TFC! :) ).

This. Plus I'm happier having the lighter travel load. I'd be happy if every year it was the east teams vs east teams and west teams vs west teams. No need for a cross country flight midweek until it's needed

[PAOK17]

Since it's a cup competition of only four teams they should scrap the seedings altogether and just have a random draw like every other cup competition. Otherwise this becomes teams battling for "playoff" spots in different leagues for a competition that won't happen for another 6 months.

When/if we increase the number of teams to say 8, seed the teams based on which league they are in but don't rank them (i.e. MLS teams are seeded and can only be drawn with non-MLS teams in the firs round). I don't think it's such a difficult task. Then again when you see how CONCACAF continuously chooses to go the route of automatically seeding Mexican and US teams regardless of how well those individual teams have done in CCL how can we expect the CSA to do any better? Let's not forget that Tottenham was a Pot 4 team in last year's CL despite them coming from England.

[lobo]

American Way Canadian Championship. <--- stupidest name ever.

Justifiable face palm::picard:

Long live the Voyageurs Cup!!! <---extremely cool name, should be universally used.

THIS!

[Juanito]

I really think they should change it to playing every team home and away, and the top two will play each other in a championship match .... then all this seeding stuff will be moot.

In the end, it's up to TFC to do the deed and win it no matter what the format.

[TOBOR !]

It seems the Towrads aren't doing their job this year.

Epic.

I forgot all about the Towrads.

Good remembering !

[Auzzy]

Epic.

I forgot all about the Towrads.

Good remembering !

Ha ha, no problem. There's even a Facebook group to keep the Towrad spirit alive: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Towrads/159906317423180

Listed on Facebook as a "Church/Religious Organization" -- no less. :D

Hopefully we'll face Vancouver in the 2nd round of the Voyageur's Cup, and some truly bizarre things will happen to keep the faith alive.

[TFCRegina]

Towrads. That is all.

[T-boy]

I don't understand the name change of the cup at ALL! Amway aren't even a brand of anything! They are a company that OWNS brands that we all know - like Nutrilite. It's like Unilever - they don't sell anything direct, but we know their brands like Dove and Axe. As a marketing tool, I don't understand why Amway would even WANT to name the cup after them?! It's hardly going to get them any sales, cos you can't buy an "Amway" product. Very strange!

[London]

isnt amway the biggest pyramid scheme of all time??