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MarkoftheDrink
01-26-2012, 06:06 PM
It was a bit of a mixed season last year for the youngers on the first team. Some excelled and exceeded expectations (Stinson and Morgan), some looked their age (Henry) and others didn't see much of the pitch at all (Makubuya, Cordon).

I'm not super familiar with these players or the academy so I'm hoping there are some academy diehards out there willing to shed some light on these players. Specifically what do they need to improve to either get more time on the pitch or just simply get on the pitch? What are their strengths and weaknesses? Who are the other Academy players to look for to possibly get homegrown status? Any ideas on who the two players BDK referred to at the media day are?

From what I can tell Stinson and Morgan should get decent minutes this year if they don't regress (hopefully they'll be even better this year). But with our d-line getting healthier and new defenders coming in Henry seems to be much further down the depth chart this year. Same with Makubuya and Cordon with Vukovic and Silva arriving.

TorCanSoc
01-26-2012, 06:30 PM
Stinson always impressed me. Morgan did great, given his opportunity.

Its going to be interesting to see the college draft versus academy products. If we use hockey as the comparison, then the best players are going to be the academy kids.

I think the academy kids are still younger than the college draft picks.

lazlo_80
01-26-2012, 08:37 PM
anyone know the nine training with the first team?

I know Vukovic and Hamilton. Who are the others?

TFCREDNWHITE
01-26-2012, 10:36 PM
Stinson didn't really impress me...

Soccerpro
01-26-2012, 10:42 PM
9 current academy players at TFC camp. Of which "2 or 3" are expected to seriously compete for a spot.

ag futbol
01-27-2012, 12:05 AM
From what I've read elsewhere, Hamilton is 15 and an absolute athletic specimen. It might take a little while, but if he's serious about a career in football I think he's assured a contract.

Dub Narcotic
01-27-2012, 01:33 AM
It's hard to see a road to the first team for a lot of the current ex-academy guys on the roster. TFC has tons of depth now in midfield and center back, where a lot of the young guys play. Is Henry going to play over the two new signings, Cann and Williams? Stinson and Cordon are similarly blocked in center mid by a ton of players as long as the 4-3-3 stays. Even if Stinson moves to RB permanently, he is stuck behind Eckersley for who knows how long. There is more room for left-footers and forwards, but no one seems to rate Makabuyu and Vukovic is surely not ready to make a major contribution yet.

I would not be surprised if in a couple of years, only Morgan and one of Cordon/Stinson are left on the roster of the current crop of grads.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2012, 08:15 AM
i got faith Winter knows how and when to play these academy kids especially as it seems to be a mandate of sorts to bring these kids up, im not too worried

T-boy
01-27-2012, 11:44 AM
I was impressed with Cordon, I was susprised he didn't get more gametime? Anyone know why?! To me, he was just as good as Stinson, maybe better.

T-boy
01-27-2012, 11:47 AM
As for Vukovic, I've always thought that a natural goalscorer can score at any level - scoring goals and being "in the right place at the right time" isn't something you can teach a kid - you either do it well, or you never do! It's a real natural thing. Vukovic seems to have "it", so I'd definitely give him the opportunity in the MLS.

MarkoftheDrink
01-27-2012, 12:47 PM
Stinson always impressed me. Morgan did great, given his opportunity.

Its going to be interesting to see the college draft versus academy products. If we use hockey as the comparison, then the best players are going to be the academy kids.

I think the academy kids are still younger than the college draft picks.

Just for comparison Avila is just over a year older than Silva. Silva is over four years older than Cordon.

The good thing about the academy signings is their age. As long as they can get enough playing time, whether if it's with the reserves or the first team, and they can keep growing. I guess this is where we put our faith in the coaching staff and their desire and ability to develop from the academy. What I really want to know is if these players are in the right place, being with the first team, and if so what the road map is for them.

With the draft picks it looks pretty much make or break, as we saw last year with Omphroy and Gold. I think myself and a lot of other fans were kind of surprised when they got released at the end of the season. Imagine where they'd be on the depth chart this year. In retrospect that really looks like the best move for all parties involved.

spark
01-27-2012, 12:47 PM
This is a few months old but here's a handful of players whose names aren't always thrown around

Some potential TFC Academy Grads (http://www.rednationonline.ca/TFCAcademyCandidatesforthe20122013.aspx)

Stouffville_RPB
01-27-2012, 01:29 PM
Henry seems to be much further down the depth chart this year.

Henry is still very young an no teenager should be expected to come in and push for a starting spot. It will happen here and there but should not be expected to be the norm. Henry was pushed up as much as he was last season because of the injuries. Realistically it will be Henry's job this season to push himself to be the #4 CB, which will be a difficult task in itself.

There are still hopes that Henry can be a big part of this squad for years to come.

lazlo_80
01-27-2012, 01:36 PM
Just for comparison Avila is just over a year older than Silva. Silva is over four years older than Cordon.

The good thing about the academy signings is their age. As long as they can get enough playing time, whether if it's with the reserves or the first team, and they can keep growing. I guess this is where we put our faith in the coaching staff and their desire and ability to develop from the academy. What I really want to know is if these players are in the right place, being with the first team, and if so what the road map is for them.

With the draft picks it looks pretty much make or break, as we saw last year with Omphroy and Gold. I think myself and a lot of other fans were kind of surprised when they got released at the end of the season. Imagine where they'd be on the depth chart this year. In retrospect that really looks like the best move for all parties involved.

Agreed. A great thing about the academy kids is they're young enough they don't need to make an immediate impact. The drafted players do.

Does MLS allow loaning out players? It would be interesting in the future to see if Academy kids get loaned out to NASL teams and such.

Dub Narcotic
01-27-2012, 01:44 PM
Agreed. A great thing about the academy kids is they're young enough they don't need to make an immediate impact. The drafted players do.

Does MLS allow loaning out players? It would be interesting in the future to see if Academy kids get loaned out to NASL teams and such.

There's been a lot of discussion on this on the Voyageurs board. The NASL wants to set itself up as the 'Triple A' of MLS. It would make sense for TFC and the Impact to buy or affiliate with a Rochester or something to ensure some playing time for their signed kids. Seattle just bought Tacoma to play their under-23's.

prizby
01-27-2012, 02:14 PM
There's been a lot of discussion on this on the Voyageurs board. The NASL wants to set itself up as the 'Triple A' of MLS. It would make sense for TFC and the Impact to buy or affiliate with a Rochester or something to ensure some playing time for their signed kids. Seattle just bought Tacoma to play their under-23's.

yeah but tacoma is pdl...not nasl

prizby
01-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Agreed. A great thing about the academy kids is they're young enough they don't need to make an immediate impact. The drafted players do.

Does MLS allow loaning out players? It would be interesting in the future to see if Academy kids get loaned out to NASL teams and such.

yes...sutton was loaned to Montreal last year

DavydMT
01-27-2012, 03:35 PM
Henry is still very young an no teenager should be expected to come in and push for a starting spot. It will happen here and there but should not be expected to be the norm. Henry was pushed up as much as he was last season because of the injuries. Realistically it will be Henry's job this season to push himself to be the #4 CB, which will be a difficult task in itself.

There are still hopes that Henry can be a big part of this squad for years to come.

Agree. In my opinion what Adrianno said applies to all 5 players promoted last year. All 5 looked very good playing in Academy team, but were pushed up too soon, because club had no players and needed something to justify all the money invested in the Downsview facility. If everything goes as planed we should see one solid player promoted to the first team every one/two years.

Overall 2010 academy team looked much stronger and all the promotions and few players leaving reduced the quality of play in 2011. Vukovic is the obvious name to move to the next level, as he needs to play against better quality defenders. Honestly i won't be surprised if we have no one promoted this year

you can find more academy talk in this thread: http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=26664&page=20

ag futbol
01-27-2012, 04:17 PM
If everything goes as planed we should see one solid player promoted to the first team every one/two years.

Probably a little on the light side considering what we are aiming for here. That would be ok if we're a club that's more concerned with the transfer market, but considering the goals that seem to exist regarding youth development I think you aim for more players and try to accommodate. I also like the value proposition of young players occupying the back end of the roster as opposed to journey men who have little upside.

The issue is there's a step missing in the process between CSL and MLS play. Doubt the guys are getting what they need out of that half-assed reserve league. So it's not too surprising that we're bringing a fair number of guys up, only a low percentage of which will actually establish themselves, but that's ok. You miss all the shots you don't take...

Wingback6
01-27-2012, 07:35 PM
I was impressed with Cordon, I was susprised he didn't get more gametime? Anyone know why?! To me, he was just as good as Stinson, maybe better.

Stinson has a higher work rate. And he scored a goal against Red Star Belgrade in pre-season, which no doubt curried a lot of good will with teammates and coaches.

He is also more versatile, playing midfield and Defense.

Cordon was playing in the 10 spot which in a 4-3-3 which has A LOT of responsibility, and he seemed a bit of a pushover, and not too sharp. Will probably develop, but he needs to keep his confidence up.

Of note as well, is that we had Maicon Santos playing the number 10 at the time, and even an untested 18 yr old is going to do more than that pathetic ego in shorts.

deschamp86
01-27-2012, 07:39 PM
Stinson didn't really impress me...

He impressed Thierry Henry...

MartinUtd
01-27-2012, 08:22 PM
Wow harsh words for Santos. People act like he was the second coming of Ruiz now that he's gone. Personally I thought gelled with his teammates a LOT better than half the malcontents that have cycled their way through our roster. Anyway.. this isn't a Santos thread so I'll stay on topic: Stinson will boss this league, I guarantee it.

JuliquE
01-27-2012, 11:52 PM
Wow harsh words for Santos. People act like he was the second coming of Ruiz now that he's gone. Personally I thought gelled with his teammates a LOT better than half the malcontents that have cycled their way through our roster. Anyway.. this isn't a Santos thread so I'll stay on topic: Stinson will boss this league, I guarantee it.
Let's not forget that Santos had a few choice words, after leaving Toronto.

I know many put it out of their minds, since it seemed rather cliche from him, at this point and I'm not one to focus on negativity, myself.. but I can understand the vitriol a few, here, have shown.

** * **

I'm really confused as to how someone wouldn't be impressed by Stinson; used to get hyped, everytime I'd see him make a stiff challenge or firmly shield the ball -- beast! As someone else has also mentioned, Thierry Henry was also rather impressed.. which was something to be proud of, about our up and coming Reds.

Morgan's another easy favourite.

I think the roles Cordon and Henry play have so much responsibility attached to them, that it's only natural that they won't have as immediate an impact as the others mentioned.

Keegan
01-29-2012, 02:54 PM
Yes, I remember Henry in a post match interview picked out three players: Frings, Koevermans... and then Stinson! This kid is going to be good, it's a shame his first cap for Canada didn't work out in November he deserved it IMO.

MarkoftheDrink
01-29-2012, 04:12 PM
Yes, I remember Henry in a post match interview picked out three players: Frings, Koevermans... and then Stinson! This kid is going to be good, it's a shame his first cap for Canada didn't work out in November he deserved it IMO.

@4:31

R6dL1IqpECY#t=4m31s

or click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dL1IqpECY#t=4m31s) to go to 4:31.

PS. Anyone know how to embed a youtube video to a specific time? The youtube tags seem to just ignore the #t=.

MarkoftheDrink
01-29-2012, 04:47 PM
@Spark, DavydMT: Thanks for the links. Some good info there.


Let's not forget that Santos had a few choice words, after leaving Toronto.

I know many put it out of their minds, since it seemed rather cliche from him, at this point and I'm not one to focus on negativity, myself.. but I can understand the vitriol a few, here, have shown.

** * **

I'm really confused as to how someone wouldn't be impressed by Stinson; used to get hyped, everytime I'd see him make a stiff challenge or firmly shield the ball -- beast! As someone else has also mentioned, Thierry Henry was also rather impressed.. which was something to be proud of, about our up and coming Reds.

Morgan's another easy favourite.

I think the roles Cordon and Henry play have so much responsibility attached to them, that it's only natural that they won't have as immediate an impact as the others mentioned.

That's a really good point, I think the same can be said of Makubuya. Anyone know if Cordon, Henry and/or Makubuya got much time with the reserves last year, and if so how did they perform? I'm guessing that's where they're going to get most of their time this year.

Soccerpro
01-29-2012, 05:06 PM
Let's not forget that Santos had a few choice words, after leaving Toronto.

I know many put it out of their minds, since it seemed rather cliche from him, at this point and I'm not one to focus on negativity, myself.. but I can understand the vitriol a few, here, have shown.

** * **

I'm really confused as to how someone wouldn't be impressed by Stinson; used to get hyped, everytime I'd see him make a stiff challenge or firmly shield the ball -- beast! As someone else has also mentioned, Thierry Henry was also rather impressed.. which was something to be proud of, about our up and coming Reds.

Morgan's another easy favourite.

I think the roles Cordon and Henry play have so much responsibility attached to them, that it's only natural that they won't have as immediate an impact as the others mentioned.

I agree with that sentiment with respect to Henry. You never see 1st team central defenders at 18 in any league, anywhere. When young players break into the 1st team extremely early, it's usually in attacking positions. The only players who traditionally get their chance later than CB's are Keepers.

MarkoftheDrink
01-29-2012, 05:23 PM
Here are the TFCA invitees:

GK – Chad Bush (A), Quillan Roberts (A)

DF – Brandon John (A), Tyler Pasher (A)

MF – Sergio Camargo (A), Jay Chapman (A)

FW – Jordan Hamilton (A), Tristan Jackman (A), Stefan Vukovic (A)

Full list of invites here (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/01/toronto-takes-41-preseason).

Guess Camargo isn't going to London.

JuliquE
01-29-2012, 07:03 PM
I agree with that sentiment with respect to Henry. You never see 1st team central defenders at 18 in any league, anywhere. When young players break into the 1st team extremely early, it's usually in attacking positions. The only players who traditionally get their chance later than CB's are Keepers.
I included Cordon simply because the AM is something of a lynch-pin to our attack, in a 4-3-3 formation.

And yes, MarkoftheDrink, I would group Makubuya in there, as well; the target man, in the middle, is such a crucial piece to the puzzle.

You can probably just suffice it to say that any position down the middle of the pitch will usually have more seasoned players, versus those out wide.

jasper
01-29-2012, 07:23 PM
Guess Camargo isn't going to London.

it was Carreiro and Petrasso going to london, not Camargo.

Greatest Ripoff
01-29-2012, 10:44 PM
I would group Makubuya in there, as well; the target man, in the middle, is such a crucial piece to the puzzle.

Between academy, reserve and league matches I've only ever seen him played out wide.

Soccerpro
01-29-2012, 11:21 PM
Here are the TFCA invitees:

GK – Chad Bush (A), Quillan Roberts (A)

DF – Brandon John (A), Tyler Pasher (A)

MF – Sergio Camargo (A), Jay Chapman (A)

FW – Jordan Hamilton (A), Tristan Jackman (A), Stefan Vukovic (A)

Full list of invites here (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/01/toronto-takes-41-preseason).

Guess Camargo isn't going to London.

Can anyone comment on these players?

Everyone knows Vukovic is a stud and should make the first team and that Camargo isn't far off, great potential, what about the other players? I know Hamilton is only 15 and is a beast and I remember seeing Chapman as a sub in the u17 world cup.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-30-2012, 07:49 AM
dont know much about the other dudes but id be willing to bet those are the 3 to get signed

C.Ronaldo
01-30-2012, 08:53 AM
TFC should sweeten the pot for these academy kids.

1)A boarding school thats linked to a good private school for starters. (give them a chance to mingle with the rich kids and make connections at st Mikes)

or/and

2)pay for their university/colledge whenever or if ever they want to go back to school once their career is over or did not pan out.

MarkoftheDrink
01-30-2012, 05:11 PM
it was Carreiro and Petrasso going to london, not Camargo.

Oops, wishful thinking. Thanks for the correction.

@ C.Ronaldo
Why should they sweeten the pot? Don't they already get the best training money can buy in Ontario (probably Canada) for free. Admittedly I don't know much about academies, in Canada or elsewhere, but if I were a kid TFCA would be my first choice.

C.Ronaldo
01-31-2012, 09:36 AM
sweeten the pot so the kids dont have to choose between school and soccer, and also to keep them here long term.

We cant "sign" kids legaly, so they are free to go. But we can promise them future education incase their careers dont pan out (which right now are MLS depth players)


The really good ones will go to acadamies in europe, regardless.

lazlo_80
02-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Disagree. I think the best ones will prove there value in MLS at a young age than go to europe (Altidore, Agudelo)

polak9pete
02-02-2012, 12:53 PM
i dont know if its been mentioned but Jay Chapman is going to Michigan State this fall..all the recruiting info is here http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-soccer/commitments/story/_/id/7149877/2012-high-school-boys-soccer-ncaa-verbal-commitments

Greatest Ripoff
02-02-2012, 01:06 PM
i dont know if its been mentioned but Jay Chapman is going to Michigan State this fall..all the recruiting info is here http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-soccer/commitments/story/_/id/7149877/2012-high-school-boys-soccer-ncaa-verbal-commitments

Same link also has Quillan Roberts going to WRIGHT STATE.

prizby
02-02-2012, 01:57 PM
i dont know if its been mentioned but Jay Chapman is going to Michigan State this fall..all the recruiting info is here http://espn.go.com/high-school/boys-soccer/commitments/story/_/id/7149877/2012-high-school-boys-soccer-ncaa-verbal-commitments

jay chapman is committed to MSU, not necesarily going...just means he has told MSU that they are his choice

just like Andrew Bynum said he was going to go UCONN or Josh Smith was going to go to Indiana...but they decided to enter the draft before ever stepping foot on campus...if chapman were offered a pro contract, well then he'll prolly not be going to msu

MarkoftheDrink
02-02-2012, 04:50 PM
sweeten the pot so the kids dont have to choose between school and soccer, and also to keep them here long term.

We cant "sign" kids legaly, so they are free to go. But we can promise them future education incase their careers dont pan out (which right now are MLS depth players)


The really good ones will go to acadamies in europe, regardless.

Wouldn't any deal like that make them ineligible to play in the NCAA?

Anyone know if the homegrown tag provides money for school if things don't work out?

Also anyone have a list of former academy players in school whose rights we still own? I think Kyle Bekker is on that list, I'm sure there are others.