CCL QF Game at Rogers Centre

[ochos]

A great case has been made for both sides - where stand you?

BMO Field - our home pitch. FORTRESS BMO! Our tin can home of 5 years and the National Soccer Stadium (I think?). Likely to be a brisk game in winter conditions. Possibility of snow and colder temperatures than the Kardinal game from earlier this year. A potential 'hell hath frozen over' nightmare for Mexican and Central American teams. Canadians playing in Canadian weather.

Skydome - a colossal giant, 50,000 seat indoor heated stadium. The wrong colour, but the right conditions to attract fairweather fans. A chance to reinvigorate the masses and get this football team back on everyone's lips with a sellout/win and playoff like atmosphere never seen in a TFC game. Montreal had 40k? We can get 50k!

Let me also state - I feel the group should use it's clout as strongly as possible to influence ticket pricing/allocation, advertising, etc... Wherever we play, we should strictly enforce that away supporters be sectioned off to one section only, no scenarios where we have Toronto based Central America/Mexican fans sitting in home/family sections cheering against the home team. I would really like to see some leadership on this issue and hope that someone will take up the campaign.

[Globetrotter]

BMO is our home. If we can sell it out in the quarters (and advance), then talk Skydome.

[KGH]

Rogers has Disney on Ice booked 14-18. BMO is where it'll be

[David_Oliveira]

It could also be an advantage to play at bmo depending on who play

[zeelaw]

Seriously? BMO.

[Razor]

BMO - This is Our House

[GBV]

BMO.

[Blazer]

Bowel Movement Operation

[ochos]

early on, but as predicted in the other thread, the numbers are closer than one might think.. let's see where this is at come game time Saturday.

[Carefree]

If we play at BMO we'll be lucky to get 2,000 frozen butts in the seats. The players (including ours) will hate playing in -10C so it will probably be a painful game to watch. I don't think we'll gain any kind of advantage because it's not like our players are used to playing in blizzards every week.

Skydome takes care of the weather issue, and it presents us with the opportunity to get 50,000 people to a TFC game. And yes, it can be done. The Impact did it, and it's not like they were the hottest ticket in town at the time. Most people there had never even watched a soccer game in their life, let alone been to one.

[ManUtd4ever]

I would obviously prefer BMO Field, but the weather implications could have a detrimental impact on the quality of the match as well as attendance.

An opportunity like this doesn't happen often, with a CCL semifinal berth on the line. If it is logistically possible to hold the event at Rogers Centre, MLSE should initiate a strong marketing campaign in advance with affordable ticket prices and pack the venue with 35,000-40,000 supporters.

[yellowfellow]

MLSE invested $$$ in BMO so that TFC can play in Feb. It will be at BMO.

[Mango Kid]

BMO, no brainer.

[uncle p]

I honestly dont understand why people want to play at the Dome (unless you have a family and you worry about conditions) Other than that I dont think the Dome should even be considered!!!....If you need some sort of novelty factor to get you pumped up for a big game than thats your problem....BMO is our home whether we like it or not and I dont want to win (or lose) anywhere but at home....

And I couldnt care any less about what the impact did at the Big O....f**k them!!!

[Waggy]

Hmm. Last night I was def pro Skydome, but mid march.... I mean BMO is our home. And I'd rather have 22k LOUD passionate supporters than 50k casual fans. If we can make BMO loud and full (and it'd be up to MLSE to price and market this sort of game propery), I'd sooner go there. Winterization (ha) shouldn't be an issue mid march, don't we usually start the season then anyways?

[Carts]

BMO Field 100%...

I don't want to sound like an ass - but put on a coat & hat if you want to be there live... If not, HD TV at Real Sports is your option...

My favourite is people saying "...nobody will show up in the cold..." Yeah, becasue that has killed teams like the Green Bay Packers!

If you WANT to be there, March temperatures aren't Minus-40 - and you will be there...

And funny enough, our bad weather games are usually our best atmosphere. We've all seen what 20,000 people sitting on their hands is like - and its nothing like 5,000 passionate fans making some noise...

Carts...

[tfcleeds]

BMO all the way. Let's fill our stadium with fans that want to be there.

[uncle p]

BMO Field 100%...

I don't want to sound like an ass - but put on a coat & hat if you want to be there live... If not, HD TV at Real Sports is your option...

My favourite is people saying "...nobody will show up in the cold..." Yeah, becasue that has killed teams like the Green Bay Packers!

If you WANT to be there, March temperatures aren't Minus-40 - and you will be there...

And funny enough, our bad weather games are usually our best atmosphere. We've all seen what 20,000 people sitting on their hands is like - and its nothing like 5,000 passionate fans making some noise...

Carts...

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!

[billyfly]

BMO unless you are able to sellout the Rogers Centre and then use the money to upgrade BMO.

[Eastend]

BMO. We can say home field advantage due to the potential weather consideration but since not all our players Canadian the advantage is not really the weather, it's the support in the stands.....as always!

[maninb]

BMO is a HUGE advantage to us if we're playing a Latin team....they'll be wearing parkas and trying to stay warm..Most of our lads have played in cold weather before...

[denime]

BMO Field 100%...

I don't want to sound like an ass - but put on a coat & hat if you want to be there live... If not, HD TV at Real Sports is your option...

My favourite is people saying "...nobody will show up in the cold..." Yeah, becasue that has killed teams like the Green Bay Packers!

If you WANT to be there, March temperatures aren't Minus-40 - and you will be there...

And funny enough, our bad weather games are usually our best atmosphere. We've all seen what 20,000 people sitting on their hands is like - and its nothing like 5,000 passionate fans making some noise...

Carts...


THANK YOU :thumbsup:

[trane]

I hate the dome. I love BMO. However, it is our first big game, and we need to get some serious numbers in the stands, more then BMO can hold.

[brad]

BMO is a HUGE advantage to us if we're playing a Latin team....they'll be wearing parkas and trying to stay warm..Most of our lads have played in cold weather before...

This - even if it means 2000 people watching.

[denime]

I hate the dome. I love BMO. However, it is our first big game, and we need to get some serious numbers in the stands, more then BMO can hold.

We don't need big numbers?ML$E needs big numbers.

We need fans who will come out regardless of weather,casual fan is ML$E target.our boys don't need them they need supporters in the stands.

TFC players will be in town from mid January,and they will be use to the temperature better than any away team.

Playing in Rogers Centre would mean TURF or temporary natural grass on top of the turf,second option is not free around 200K,ML$E will charge for that,so why should we pay extra for grass when BMO has heated grass and our boys are used to that surface.


Rogers Center is for fair-weather fans,BMO is for TFC fans.

[denime]

This - even if it means 2000 people watching.

Still better than 20 K at Rogers

[KRO]

Rogers has Disney on Ice booked 14-18. BMO is where it'll be
With a Pumas win tonight we'll end up 2nd in our group. That will mean that we are at home for the first leg and it will be played March 6-8.

Having said that my vote is for BMO if they think they can fool the grass into growing early.

[mowe]

I think it's definitely going to be Skydome for one reason: the amount of tickets that can be sold. MLSE is aware that Montreal got 55,000 out for their game. That might have been all cheap tickets, but I think TFC can get 40,000 for this game. I don't think MLSE is going to miss out on the chance to sell twice as many tickets.

Another huge factor is that the game would be played March 6-8. The home opener this year was March 26. The cold is definitely going to be an issue. It will affect attendance, and I'm not convinced the on field advantage would be in our favour. It's not like our players are used to playing in freezing temperatures. If it's going to be a very cold night (likely in early March), both teams are going to have a tough time adjusting. It doesn't make any sense when there is a heated dome available.

[Ageroo]

Time to buy that TFC winter coat now that they are discounted at end of year....:) BMO for sure.....

[Ageroo]

Having said that my vote is for BMO if they think they can fool the grass into growing early.

People grow grass in their basement over the winter... ;)

How hard can it be.........:D

[brad]

Still better than 20 K at Rogers

Indeed - especially if you consider the types that would come out in the cold at BMO are going to be folks like us - with a nice empty stadium to make it easier to congregate in one area.

[BuSaPuNk]

BMO with out a doubt. It's our home in rain, wind, snow, temperature. We will be there.

[Detroit_TFC]

The only way Dome would be worth it is if MLSE pulled out all, and I mean all, the stops to fill the place up. I do think having 50K for a CCL qf would create some excitement. But I have zero confidence they would or even could do that.

It's not that much earlier than the start of the MLS season. In fact it 2nd leg QF might conflict with start of the MLS season based on the calendar rumors I've heard.

[Auzzy]

My personal preference would be BMO, although I see advantages & disadvantages for both.

A major technical issue (as explained at the Town Halls) are the uninsulated pipes & washrooms at BMO. At one of the early games so far, they had plumbers running around & running water non-stop to keep the pipes from freezing & dealing with related issues. Some pipes still burst. This game could be colder. As a fan, you can always go into the Food Building washrooms if you want it more comfortable. But they need to provide a certain number of functioning washrooms based on the capacity of the stadium & # of tickets sold, so the Food Building alone won't do for the whole stadium.

[NBS]

Rogers has Disney on Ice booked 14-18. BMO is where it'll be

Well that will depend on if we finish first in the group or not (likely not). If we don't finish first in the group, we get the first leg as a runner up team do we not (March 6-8)? So Rogers Centre is still in play.

[spe18]

Though does anyone know if MLSE would get a percentage of concession sales if it were held in the dome?


I think it's definitely going to be Skydome for one reason: the amount of tickets that can be sold. MLSE is aware that Montreal got 55,000 out for their game. That might have been all cheap tickets, but I think TFC can get 40,000 for this game. I don't think MLSE is going to miss out on the chance to sell twice as many tickets.

[JonO]

I've posted this in a number of threads, but from what I recall it was touch and go whether the stadium would be ready for our home opener this year (which was March 26). BMO may not be a viable option for an earlier game...

Edit: See Auzzy's post (three up) for cold-reated problems at BMO

[Wagner]

With a Pumas win tonight we'll end up 2nd in our group. That will mean that we are at home for the first leg and it will be played March 6-8.

Having said that my vote is for BMO if they think they can fool the grass into growing early.

BMO has this crazy heated turf system...
coils of heated glycol under the pitch...they can control the heat and moisture to a crazy precise level...

the turf won't be the issue in March.

[Whoop]

The other problem Paul Beirne insinuated at on Twitter is that there might not be any turf available to put down temporarily at SkyDome.

I'm thinking it will be at BMO.

[Auzzy]

The other problem Paul Beirne insinuated at on Twitter is that there might not be any turf available to put down temporarily at SkyDome.

I'm thinking it will be at BMO.

Good point! You don't exactly want to truck it in from Florida.

[Whoop]

He mentioned flying it in. LOL

Did they put down grass at Olympic Stadium for that match? And if so where did they get it?

[MartinUtd]

It's march, it's going to be cold, but it's not going to be too difficult to play a game at BMO. If it was a month earlier then I'd vote Skydome.

Also, the cold weather can only help us against a Mexican team who's primary goal will be their domestic league (assuming Tuaro doesn't get a result tonight).

[Carts]

My personal preference would be BMO, although I see advantages & disadvantages for both.

A major technical issue (as explained at the Town Halls) are the uninsulated pipes & washrooms at BMO. At one of the early games so far, they had plumbers running around & running water non-stop to keep the pipes from freezing & dealing with related issues. Some pipes still burst. This game could be colder. As a fan, you can always go into the Food Building washrooms if you want it more comfortable. But they need to provide a certain number of functioning washrooms based on the capacity of the stadium & # of tickets sold, so the Food Building alone won't do for the whole stadium.

Well, if TFC wants success in this competition year in and year out - time to fix these issues...

Insulate the pipes - its not rocket science...

I have been to many full outdoor stadiums (including outdoor washrooms - those being ones with no sealed in rooms & insulation) in -40 degree weather...

If they think this year is a one-off, they do nothing and we'll play at the dome - if they expect this team to be in this situation many times in the future, they eat the relatively small cost of winterizing the pipes...

If they need help, call the guy who runs Ralph Wilson Stadium or Lambeau Field - they do it year in and year out...

Carts...

[Auzzy]

He mentioned flying it in. LOL

Did they put down grass at Olympic Stadium for that match? And if so where did they get it?

They played the game on the regular Big Owe plastic turf.

[Whoop]

It's march, it's going to be cold, but it's not going to be too difficult to play a game at BMO. If it was a month earlier then I'd vote Skydome.

Also, the cold weather can only help us against a Mexican team who's primary goal will be their domestic league (assuming Tuaro doesn't get a result tonight).

This is what I'm thinking. But aside for a handful of guys on TFC, have many of them played in cold weather?

[Shway]

i really, really, really, really dont get this advantage talk about how it might be better for our players to play in the cold.....

WHO LIKES PLAYING IN THE COLD?

Not plata - ecuador
Not Johnson - jamaica....
the only people who should/would be "accustomed to the climate" would be Ashtone, and Doneill, and you should ask them what they prefer



I wish i can find the thread where this has already been talked about, and where i said it would determine the hardcore fans, and got bashed for saying that... :rolleyes: but oh well

[T-boy]

Well that will depend on if we finish first in the group or not (likely not). If we don't finish first in the group, we get the first leg as a runner up team do we not (March 6-8)? So Rogers Centre is still in play.

Defo March 6 to 8th, I'm not sure why everybody keeps talking about games in February?!

The game will be March 6th to 8th! So, no reason not to have it at BMO in March IMO.

[GhostKiller]

Unique type of game like one at Rogers would peak some interest. I'm sure more people would be there then at BMO. Shut down a half of the 500's (each end) and it will be packed....if priced and market correctly.

As far a home field advantage by playing in the cold... that's nominal. Our players would suffer as well. Ryan Johnson?

[Pookie]

What about a compromise... Rogers Centre with the roof open?

[DichioTFC]

Voted Skydome, but I know it'll be at BMO.

[KRO]

The precedent for a game at BMO was earlier this year when Columbus played RSL at Crew Stadium on February 25th in the CCL Quarter Finals. Here's a quote from the match report (25 degrees F is -4 C)


The match-time temperature was 25 degrees with a wind chill of 19, but the only snow in sight was plowed off the field earlier in the day. Still, sections of the stands and areas of the concourse were closed because of ice, and a yellow ball was used before a hearty crowd of 4,665.

[lobo]

is this a serious thread?

[GBV]

The only way Dome would be worth it is if MLSE pulled out all, and I mean all, the stops to fill the place up. I do think having 50K for a CCL qf would create some excitement. But I have zero confidence they would or even could do that.

It's not that much earlier than the start of the MLS season. In fact it 2nd leg QF might conflict with start of the MLS season based on the calendar rumors I've heard.

Yeah. I don't consider the people up front to be promotional geniuses. By any stretch. Not that they've had to be, for the most part. Lucky them.

[Canary10]

i really, really, really, really dont get this advantage talk about how it might be better for our players to play in the cold.....

WHO LIKES PLAYING IN THE COLD?

Not plata - ecuador
Not Johnson - jamaica....
the only people who should/would be "accustomed to the climate" would be Ashtone, and Doneill, and you should ask them what they prefer


I wish i can find the thread where this has already been talked about, and where i said it would determine the hardcore fans, and got bashed for saying that... :rolleyes: but oh well

I don't get why growing up somewhere south automatically puts you at a disadvantage in cold weather. I grew up in Canada, and can tell you I HATE, HATE, HATE playing in cold weather. It would be no advantage for me, that's for sure.

The big draw of Roger's Centre is, well, the big draw. The first game of hopefully our first playoff season, it would be awesome to get Toronto's buzz back around the team by packing 50,000 into a game.

[Greatest Ripoff]

WHO LIKES PLAYING IN THE COLD?


Not Johnson - jamaica....
the only people who should/would be "accustomed to the climate" would be Ashtone, and Doneill, and you should ask them what they prefer


Johnson moved to Boston as an infant. He would be much more accustomed this a north eastern winter than the Jamaican climate.

[lobo]

home is where the heart is!

don't care what montreal did. and i really don't care how many tourists can fill skydome with its plastic carpet and comfy seats in that ridiculous HVAC controlled library-like insanity. and i certainly don't care about how much money MLSE can make on concessions.

i'd wanna stand in the cold, shoulder to shoulder with fellow RPB, supporting my team, in our tin house, in the great outdoors, where the only thing heated is the only thing that needs to be heated, the turf

[dmacd]

Talked to Tom Anselmi at the game yesterday. (Best road game experience ever, by the way.) He said that they incurred a huge bill for burst pipes before the late March game this year. Doesn't think they can get BMO ready and said Rogers Centre is very likely.

Also said they almost certainly wouldn't put grass down for the game if played there. He asked Winter, who said that if we had the opportunity to train on turf for a couple weeks before the game, it might actually be a competitive advantage.

[DichioTFC]

^ Thanks for all the details. Looks like SkyDome it is.

Just hoping its GA for supporters. This is TFC's chance to make amends with fans.

Hell, starting in March, make all future CCL games GA in specific sections. The will see the value of the goodwill in more renewals.

[nfitz]

Talked to Tom Anselmi at the game yesterday. (Best road game experience ever, by the way.) He said that they incurred a huge bill for burst pipes before the late March game this year. Doesn't think they can get BMO ready and said Rogers Centre is very likely.He said the same last month at the final town hall. Said the repair bill was over $100,000. Given how much colder it can be for the pipes for a March 7th game, than a March 26th game, it seems like the decision is already made - unless either Tauro beats Pumas ... or Rogers are complete dicks.

[123 elite]

A little weather network check shows that last march 6-8 the temp was below freezing pretty much all day everyday. Highest was about 1 and lowest about -10. For the return dates it was ranging up to +10 and never below frezzing. SO BMO isn't that bad an option. As long as the grass has recovered.

[ensco]

Talked to Tom Anselmi at the game yesterday. (Best road game experience ever, by the way.) He said that they incurred a huge bill for burst pipes before the late March game this year. Doesn't think they can get BMO ready and said Rogers Centre is very likely.

Also said they almost certainly wouldn't put grass down for the game if played there. He asked Winter, who said that if we had the opportunity to train on turf for a couple weeks before the game, it might actually be a competitive advantage.

That's great scoop. No point discussing this any further.

[DichioTFC]

It costs $70,000 for most organizations to rent the Skydome, so it already appears more cost effective than taking the risk of bursting pipes at BMO

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

I think it's definitely going to be Skydome for one reason: the amount of tickets that can be sold. MLSE is aware that Montreal got 55,000 out for their game. That might have been all cheap tickets, but I think TFC can get 40,000 for this game. I don't think MLSE is going to miss out on the chance to sell twice as many tickets.

Another huge factor is that the game would be played March 6-8. The home opener this year was March 26. The cold is definitely going to be an issue. It will affect attendance, and I'm not convinced the on field advantage would be in our favour. It's not like our players are used to playing in freezing temperatures. If it's going to be a very cold night (likely in early March), both teams are going to have a tough time adjusting. It doesn't make any sense when there is a heated dome available.

The Rogers Centre may not even be available. Remember MLSE cant even get Gol TV in HD on Rogers.

[NBS]

Let's be real here:

1) 5000-10000 fans (I may be generous here) for a QF game in a (at the very least) chilly BMO field would suck. While I understand the romanticism of playing in "Our Home" with "True fans" that want to be there. No matter how loud and passionate those fans are, it's not a home advantage. Our players will hate playing in the cold as much as our opponents. There is nothing intimidating about it, especially if there are strong winds killing any sound those people make. Unless there were some way to fill BMO under those conditions, which I just don't see fickle Torontonians doing, it's pointless.

2) If we could even get 35000 people (hopefully more) in an enclosed Rogers Centre, it would at least provide an opportunity for a home advantage. I think it has the potential to be awesome if pulled off properly.

I think playing this game at BMO would end up being a disappointment. If the goal is truly to provide a home field advantage, people need to seriously consider the advantages of Rogers Centre. People need to understand that the casual fan, like it or not, is an important element in making these things a huge success.

[Whoop]

Wait a minute....

Do these guys talk to each other?

Tom Anselmi is talking about burst pipes in March.

Paul Beirne is talking about how they wouldn't be able to get turf to be laid down at SkyDome.

I think Carts is right. I think they're going to have to bite the bullet and winterize the pipes given that a) this is hopefully a more common occurrence and b) that the MLS schedule is likely to stretch longer - earlier start - hopefully deeper in the playoffs for TFC.

I suggest they talk between the two of them.

And Rogers Centre is booked from March 14 to 18th as someone pointed out for Disney on Ice.

So there is that to deal with as well if it comes up.

[mowe]

Talked to Tom Anselmi at the game yesterday. (Best road game experience ever, by the way.) He said that they incurred a huge bill for burst pipes before the late March game this year. Doesn't think they can get BMO ready and said Rogers Centre is very likely.

Also said they almost certainly wouldn't put grass down for the game if played there. He asked Winter, who said that if we had the opportunity to train on turf for a couple weeks before the game, it might actually be a competitive advantage.

Thanks for the info. This pretty much settles it, I think.

I'm hoping this game with 40k+ will help get the buzz back for this team. Of course, it would need to be followed by a playoff season, but that's another topic.

[ManUtd4ever]

Talked to Tom Anselmi at the game yesterday. (Best road game experience ever, by the way.) He said that they incurred a huge bill for burst pipes before the late March game this year. Doesn't think they can get BMO ready and said Rogers Centre is very likely.

Also said they almost certainly wouldn't put grass down for the game if played there. He asked Winter, who said that if we had the opportunity to train on turf for a couple weeks before the game, it might actually be a competitive advantage.

Thanks for the input.

I believe this is a golden opportunity for MLSE to recapture the excitement that surrounded this franchise a few years ago and build on it. I hope they promote the match accordingly.

[Huyton]

Don't MLSE want to stage a "Winter Classic" at BMO?

Will they get so much extra revenue that $100.000 for burst pipes is not an issue?

[ManUtd4ever]

Let's be real here:

1) 5000-10000 fans (I may be generous here) for a QF game in a (at the very least) chilly BMO field would suck. While I understand the romanticism of playing in "Our Home" with "True fans" that want to be there. No matter how loud and passionate those fans are, it's not a home advantage. Our players will hate playing in the cold as much as our opponents. There is nothing intimidating about it, especially if there are strong winds killing any sound those people make. Unless there were some way to fill BMO under those conditions, which I just don't see fickle Torontonians doing, it's pointless.

2) If we could even get 35000 people (hopefully more) in an enclosed Rogers Centre, it would at least provide an opportunity for a home advantage. I think it has the potential to be awesome if pulled off properly.

I think playing this game at BMO would end up being a disappointment. If the goal is truly to provide a home field advantage, people need to seriously consider the advantages of Rogers Centre. People need to understand that the casual fan, like it or not, is an important element in making these things a huge success.

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

[nfitz]

Do these guys talk to each other?

Tom Anselmi is talking about burst pipes in March.

Paul Beirne is talking about how they wouldn't be able to get turf to be laid down at SkyDome.Paul's also been saying that they are going to have to go to SkyDome and look at the turf, and that a decision will have to be made, and that's weeks away. I don't think we can criticize them about telling us what they are all thinking long before they make a decision. Would you prefer they just kept completely quiet until a decision is made? There's no indication they aren't talking to each other. They both seem quite clear that putting down grass at Rogers isn't an option.


And Rogers Centre is booked from March 14 to 18th as someone pointed out for Disney on Ice.The game is most likely March 6th to March 8th - unless Tauro pulls off a minor miracle tonight in Mexico City. Even if they do, I'm quite sure that whichever opponent we draw, won't object to Toronto give up home-field advantage and swapping dates - particularly if it means they won't have to play outside in mid-March!

[DichioTFC]

Theres nothing happening at SkyDome from mid-Feb to mid-March. Hell, TFC can run training camp there to get them prepared for the CCL match.

[Shway]

2012 will be such a momentousness year!

The year TFC goes the furthest Canadian team in the CCL

The year TFC draws the most in attendance in the CCL, beating Montreals record in the year they join the league

The year TFC makes the playoff

The year where 2012 brings the feelings of 2007

[Whoop]

Personally I don't care where they are playing it.

[mowe]

2012 will be such a momentousness year!

The year TFC goes the furthest Canadian team in the CCL

The year TFC draws the most in attendance in the CCL, beating Montreals record in the year they join the league

The year TFC makes the playoff

The year where 2012 brings the feelings of 2007

I like the way you think.

[lobo]

football outdoors in winter is too much for players and casual fans to handle ?

i just don't know how they do it in europe every year, must be magic or sorcery

[Canada72]

2012 will be such a momentousness year!

The year TFC goes the furthest Canadian team in the CCL

The year TFC draws the most in attendance in the CCL, beating Montreals record in the year they join the league

The year TFC makes the playoff

The year where 2012 brings the feelings of 2007

The year we see TFC play MTL at the Big O and play the CL QF at Rogers Center, 100,000 combined attendance!! It can happen!

[zeelaw]

2012 will be such a momentousness year!

The year TFC goes the furthest Canadian team in the CCL

The year TFC draws the most in attendance in the CCL, beating Montreals record in the year they join the league

The year TFC makes the playoff

The year where 2012 brings the feelings of 2007
I'll have what he's having.

[ochos]

Glad to see the debate going on - we all know what a poll can do for a thread! 2/3 supporting BMO so far, and we've heard contradictory evidence that either/neither will be possible. Once again the board delivers drama!

One quick comment - funny to see people automatically dismissing players from warmer clients as not being able to handle the cold... doesn't seem to stop the same types of players from prospering in Europe! But certainly one would think we would have an advantage over an entire team.

Again, I want to call on the leaders of the group to mechanize, and ensure wherever the game is played we have our say with ticket allocation/pricing and seating protocol. And if you already have, please let us know the details in the membership section.

[nfitz]

football outdoors in winter is too much for players and casual fans to handle ?

i just don't know how they do it in europe every year, must be magic or sorceryThey don't deal well with the kind of temperatures we can get with in early March - not in England at least.

Remember how many cancelled EPL games there were this year? In London last winter, the coldest it ever got on any day, was only -9°C - and it got up to 0°C every day. There was a day in January that the high was only -1°C - however the lowest it got the entire month was only -2°C. You know how the ground freezes in Toronto in the winter, even if there's no snow - and the grass turns brown - and you can't dig in the garden because it's frozen? That doesn't happen in England - people grow some veggies in their garden through the winter. The grass stays green, and it's very unusual for the ground to freeze. Even on many houses, they don't insulate the pipes; it's not unusual to see the waste-water (sewer) from a second story bathroom going in a pipe on the outside of the house, into the ground.

[denime]

football outdoors in winter is too much for players and casual fans to handle ?

i just don't know how they do it in europe every year, must be magic or sorcery


True,Apparently Europe has tropical temperatures so non of our foreign players would be able to adapt and play in the city where they live-Toronto.


As far the pipes goes,well , they had to be fixed sooner than later,MLS schedule is moving more toward the 1st week of March so Tommy you will have to spend some teachers pension $$$ no matter what you cheap F*$@

[NewCity]

BMO Hands Down - We can play in the freezing weather and snow...can the opponents? I think not. Advantage TFC.

[DichioTFC]

2012 will be such a momentousness year!

The year TFC goes the furthest Canadian team in the CCL

The year TFC draws the most in attendance in the CCL, beating Montreals record in the year they join the league

The year TFC makes the playoff

The year where 2012 brings the feelings of 2007

There is a fine line between tasting the soup and getting drunk on it. You, sir, have clearly crossed the line.

Love the optimism though ;)

[PearceCFC]

BMO.. thread over.

[werewolf]

Let's be real here:

1) 5000-10000 fans (I may be generous here) for a QF game in a (at the very least) chilly BMO field would suck. While I understand the romanticism of playing in "Our Home" with "True fans" that want to be there. No matter how loud and passionate those fans are, it's not a home advantage. Our players will hate playing in the cold as much as our opponents. There is nothing intimidating about it, especially if there are strong winds killing any sound those people make. Unless there were some way to fill BMO under those conditions, which I just don't see fickle Torontonians doing, it's pointless.

2) If we could even get 35000 people (hopefully more) in an enclosed Rogers Centre, it would at least provide an opportunity for a home advantage. I think it has the potential to be awesome if pulled off properly.

I think playing this game at BMO would end up being a disappointment. If the goal is truly to provide a home field advantage, people need to seriously consider the advantages of Rogers Centre. People need to understand that the casual fan, like it or not, is an important element in making these things a huge success.

:thumbsup:

[rocker]

Skydome for me.. the weather advantage is negligible -- both teams have to play in the same conditions, and I don't think our players will enjoy it either. It'll be ugly football too, particularly if it rains.

People think that the CCL is more important than playoffs -- well, the general public doesn't understand that yet. If you have the game at BMO, the average person won't show up, and we've lost an opportunity to get people hyped up about TFC. We already have the diehards on board. The opportunity to bring more people on board shouldn't be lost. And I'm not going to rag on casual fans here. Get as many in the stadium as possible, and Skydome is the place to do that.

I also think it'll be much louder and imposing (there's a home field advantage in that) under a domed roof than at the roofless, cold, wet BMO. If Montreal can beat Santos Laguna inside a dome 2-0, then we can beat our likely Mexican foes at home as well. We don't need to have a crutch, like the weather.

[lobo]

Let's be real here:

1) 5000-10000 fans (I may be generous here) for a QF game in a (at the very least) chilly BMO field would suck. While I understand the romanticism of playing in "Our Home" with "True fans" that want to be there. No matter how loud and passionate those fans are, it's not a home advantage. Our players will hate playing in the cold as much as our opponents. There is nothing intimidating about it, especially if there are strong winds killing any sound those people make. Unless there were some way to fill BMO under those conditions, which I just don't see fickle Torontonians doing, it's pointless.

2) If we could even get 35000 people (hopefully more) in an enclosed Rogers Centre, it would at least provide an opportunity for a home advantage. I think it has the potential to be awesome if pulled off properly.

I think playing this game at BMO would end up being a disappointment. If the goal is truly to provide a home field advantage, people need to seriously consider the advantages of Rogers Centre. People need to understand that the casual fan, like it or not, is an important element in making these things a huge success.

sir, i think you may have this a little backward ... playing in our home is not romanticism, it is what it is, home - and it will always be to our advantage playing at home .... seems that all those calling for a bland skydome filled with 35-50,000 casual 'supporters' are the ones subscribing to romantic dreams ... the casual fan is not gonna intimidate the opponent, no matter how many cheap or free tickets are given out to make that happen ... bigger is not always better ... we had upwards of 20,000 to BMO on March 26 earlier this year ... the grass is not always greener on the inside (actually its plastic and oddly blueish-green)

wow, seriously, skydome sucks ... ya wanna be warm and comfy to watch TFC in CCL quarter finals, which will be the new next-biggest-game-in-club-history, stay home ... i wanna see football played by warriors on a grass pitch, not on a plastic carpet in a sterile cavern ... this is not romanticism ... and i think you will be very surprised how many would brave whatever march brings weatherwise to see this with me (this poll should be indicative of that ... currently running 66% in favour of our home field)



They don't deal well with the kind of temperatures we can get with in early March - not in England at least.

You know how the ground freezes in Toronto in the winter, even if there's no snow - and the grass turns brown - and you can't dig in the garden because it's frozen? That doesn't happen in England - people grow some veggies in their garden through the winter.

that's england ... how do they do it in russia in march? or germany? poland? ukraine?

mine was really a rhetorical question ... we know football can be played in cold weather, and the grounds at BMO are heated ... this shouldn't be an issue

this is toronto, not edmonton, and we're talking about march not january, aint that big a deal

insulate the pipes, let's move on

[ArmenJBX]

Watch, the game in March is going to be the sunniest Winter day in the history of Toronto :D

[WestStandGeoff]

i really, really, really, really dont get this advantage talk about how it might be better for our players to play in the cold.....

WHO LIKES PLAYING IN THE COLD?

Not plata - ecuador
Not Johnson - jamaica....
the only people who should/would be "accustomed to the climate" would be Ashtone, and Doneill, and you should ask them what they prefer


Regardless of where people were born/raised, the fact is that TFC players will have spent the majority of January-March in Toronto, with the exception of the pre-season training in Florida. It's not a matter of what people would prefer, but what they are accustomed to and what they can handle.

Since the Mexican league will be at the height of the Aperatura, it's extremely unlikely that any team will be here more than a couple days ahead of the match, and therefore completely unaccustomed to the temperatures. So, with all due respect, ALL of our players will be much more accustomed to the climate than ANY visiting team.

[Auzzy]

Well, if TFC wants success in this competition year in and year out - time to fix these issues...

Insulate the pipes - its not rocket science...

I have been to many full outdoor stadiums (including outdoor washrooms - those being ones with no sealed in rooms & insulation) in -40 degree weather...

If they think this year is a one-off, they do nothing and we'll play at the dome - if they expect this team to be in this situation many times in the future, they eat the relatively small cost of winterizing the pipes...

If they need help, call the guy who runs Ralph Wilson Stadium or Lambeau Field - they do it year in and year out...

Carts...

Insulating the pipes sounds like a good idea. However, I have no idea how easy that is at BMO Field. Of course it's owned by the City/Ex, I'm sure everything has to get approved etc & related complications. Also, were the pipes & washrooms ever designed to be insulated? Are they easily accessible, or in confined/uninsulated spaces which make it more difficult?

[RicoSuave44]

What are attendances like in Russia Lobo? And since when is the SkyDome not our home? I've been going there since i was 3 years old in 1989, and our Ontario tax dollars paid over 600M for it. I've had some of the fondest memories of my life there (not just baseball: CFL, Raptors, Mandela, concerts etc) and I can assure you that when it's packed with enthusiastic fans that the atmosphere is stellar. The Dome is like our Wembly: for big matches we go to the big house.

Are Mexicans going to be shocked that Canada has cold weather? Or that a Canadian soccer club can fill 40+ thousand seats? I for one would rather not freeze my ass off- we have plenty of dates thru the year to do that. I'd rather see my TFC fill the big house. And you can't question my passion... I've been at my seat in 112 since January '07- in freezing snowy weather before the stadium was finished.

This is a special event people, let's treat it as such. Next year they can winterize BMO and we'll go there in 2013 CCL, but at least once let's do it up big.

[Brooker]

The year TFC draws the most in attendance in the CCL, beating Montreals record in the year they join the league

You really think they can get 60,000 people to watch a TFC game?

[Alonso]

You really think they can get 60,000 people to watch a TFC game?

I think because the city will be TFC starved over the winter I think this can happen.

[Yohan]

You really think they can get 60,000 people to watch a TFC game?
nobody thought 50k+ for Impact would happen?

[Alonso]

Oh... and Skydome.

Big venue for the Big show.

Guaranteed good weather is a bonus.

And if it happens I would guess at least 35,000 will show up.

[BeachTory]

The game is most likely March 6th to March 8th - unless Tauro pulls off a minor miracle tonight in Mexico City. Even if they do, I'm quite sure that whichever opponent we draw, won't object to Toronto give up home-field advantage and swapping dates - particularly if it means they won't have to play outside in mid-March!

You don't swap the return leg home game. it is too valuable to play extra time or penalties on your home ground. So Mar 6-8 it is barring a Tauro miracle tonight.

Note also that CCL matches don't split revenue with the visiting team - just a package of expenses and tickets for the visitors. So if there is a way to milk the Dome for a large gate or to market the team in advance of the MLS season, I can see the attraction in that. I voted BMO by the way even if the toilets wont work. Remember Animal House "...every fall the trees are filled with underwear and every spring the toilets explode..."

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

A great case has been made for both sides - where stand you?

BMO Field - our home pitch. FORTRESS BMO! Our tin can home of 5 years and the National Soccer Stadium (I think?). Likely to be a brisk game in winter conditions. Possibility of snow and colder temperatures than the Kardinal game from earlier this year. A potential 'hell hath frozen over' nightmare for Mexican and Central American teams. Canadians playing in Canadian weather.

Skydome - a colossal giant, 50,000 seat indoor heated stadium. The wrong colour, but the right conditions to attract fairweather fans. A chance to reinvigorate the masses and get this football team back on everyone's lips with a sellout/win and playoff like atmosphere never seen in a TFC game. Montreal had 40k? We can get 50k!

Let me also state - I feel the group should use it's clout as strongly as possible to influence ticket pricing/allocation, advertising, etc... Wherever we play, we should strictly enforce that away supporters be sectioned off to one section only, no scenarios where we have Toronto based Central America/Mexican fans sitting in home/family sections cheering against the home team. I would really like to see some leadership on this issue and hope that someone will take up the campaign.



enough right there in that paragraph...

[habstfc]

Take it from someone who has worked in the construction field with part of that being plumbing, I don't think some of you know what winterizing pipes entails. It's a very costly and time consuming process because of the sheer number of pipes and linear feet that goes with the pipes at bmo.

I voted skydome because I don't believe playing in cold weather is an advantage like some think. It's not like tfc is made up of canadians and russians and norwegians.

Most of all, this is a business and if they can squeeze more money out of skydome than bmo it will be at skydome. I think unless you are a real die hard fan you aren't going to freeeze your ass off at bmo but you might go sit in a warm cozy skydome to watch a game that time of year.

[Empirical]

BMO all the way. Let's fill our stadium with fans that want to be there.

oh right because the fans at the skydome wouldn't want to be there.

[Furtado91]

Time to buy that TFC winter coat now that they are discounted at end of year....:) BMO for sure.....


i paid 118 for the tfc stadium jacket. its a very nice jacket very warm.

[KezmanCCCC]

BMO is the only place for TFC matches..... no where else should be considerd

[jazzy]

Skydome...I'd like to hear the noise level with echo and roof AND I'm not crazy enough to want to see ANY players hurt EG Plata, has he even seen snow? The ball would be like a ROCK and the bodies would be very susceptible to injuries......Like to see any who want it actually play themselves in frigid temps.......there would be absolutely zero finess on the pitch....no thanks

[Waggy]

I've thought more about this and once again I've flopped. While it may not be a problem to get all of us to BMO for a game like this come snow sleet or hail, we need casual fans to come as well. We (oh mighty 4-5000 people) are not enough to make TFC games special. The supporters sections weren't what made that first season great. It was the fact that the whole stadium was willing to chant/sing. Whether diehard fan or not. First game, 2nd game, 10th game, whatever. Games like this quarter final match can get people who are kinda into TFC BIG into TFC. Putting the match in BMO makes this the biggest match in TFC history. Putting the match in the Dome makes this the biggest match in TFC history AND barring the Jays being as good as I think they will be, the 2nd biggest EVENT in Toronto in 2012. I think we'd get 50k.

Plus fans will be interested anyways. For one, there will be no bitterness towards the team as it's the begining of the season (and EVERYONE in this city has a clean state to start the year. Except the Argos). People won't be remembering all winter how bad this team is, they'll remember "huh, TFC actually put it together somehow. go figure". There probably won't be basketball for non hockey people to focus on. The NHL playoffs won't have started. Spring training won't have really even started. TFC would have the Toronto sports scene (outside of the Maple Leafs) to itself.

Try and get some new fans. Try and bring back some lost fans who remember year 1 fondly. Try and grow the teams footprint in this city. Make us the lead story on every network. Get us on the front page of every newspaper. What's good for MLSE and what's good for the club/us aren't mutually exclusive. We need this team to be successful on AND off the field. It's giving up one game in our home to get a new generation of people interested in the team and the sport. To have a shot at getting that year one feeling back. I voted skydome.

[billyfly]

MLSE needs to fix up BMO. (period)

Especially if they intend on using it for the Leafs 100 year bday party.

[Whoop]

^^

But what about the pipes!?!?

[AL-MO]

I'm fine with either, but only Skydome if we get a General Admission Supporter Stand.

(that the groups can organize)

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

I'm fine with either, but only Skydome if we get a General Admission Supporter Stand.

(that the groups can organize)


dont have to be GA....just give one of the ends to the SG'S to distribute


as for the rest of the stadium...5$ upper....$30 lower.......

BUt we all know..it will be overpriced...its the mlse way!

If the dome is used...it could be a great tool....to put this teams face in this city......if its done right..thats the question...


in saying all of that.... BMO is the better choice! :)

[AL-MO]

dont have to be GA....just give the the end to the SG'S to distribute

That would be acceptable as well.

[nfitz]

nobody thought 50k+ for Impact would happen?Toronto isn't the city Montreal is. And I say this simply from how the media works in that city. Most there are much more in touch with the local media than they are in Toronto. The papers, for example, would have given Montreal's entry into the quarter-finals more coverage than we got here, where CP reports were buried 6-7 pages into the Star and Globe this morning. It would have been mentioned in the morning radio shows. The media would have been selling the game with excitement. Here they are more likely to be moaning about the price of gas ... and focused less on local issues.

We couldn't pull off the 55,000 that Montreal did ... ironically we may be too big of a town, for it to attract that much attention that it does in somewhere more isolated culturally.

I'd be thrilled to be wrong though.

[uncle p]

I dont think its gonna be as easy to get 35,000+ in attendance as everyone else seems to think it will. And I certainly don't expect MLSE to price the tickets in a way that 35,000+ will want to pay for them. BMO was a ghost town for the group stage games and even less people around the city knew they were even playing. Its gonna take a huge marketing blitz to get the casual fan out for this game IMO.

And FFS can we stop comparing TFC to the impact?!?

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Skydome! I want to see 50,000 + at a TFC match in my lifetime!!

[jazzy]

all tickets should be say $15,general admission with prearranged sections given to supporters groups ...or family packs of 4 for $40...just think!....but there will be costs associated with the 'rogers' skydome I'm assuming...just in realizing this...It would be a great leap of faith for MLSE to 'rent' the dome , so now I'm feeling highly doubtful, knowing MLSE never bites the bullet!...and will just locate the game where there will be the most profit......mlse/teachers and unions quite the match...lol

[james]

People say fans wouldnt show up to an outdoor game in Toronto at BMO field because its cold. But yet fans show up in big numbers for winter classics in january every year. I now this aint the NHL but with MLSE having about 4 or 5 months to sale this game it gives them plenty of time to sell and hype the advertisement about having an outdoor winter game could attract many fans since Toronto has never had anything like this before, or at least in a hell of a long time. However there is also the chances the stadium just wont be ready come early March due to frozen pipes, frozen grass, icey stairways at the stadium exc.

Sky Dome on the other hand is guaranteed safe being indoors. But its the sky dome and alot of people seem to hate the stadium. However it does give them a chance to sell 50,000 tickets. But i must say the only way there are going to sell more then 20,000 tickets is if they sell alot of cheap tickets like Montreal did. They can not be selling ticekts at some of the prices they sell at BMO field. Id say the whole upper deck seats should be $10-$15 maximum if they want any chance of filling the place. Hell maybe dont sell any ticekts in the whole stadium for more then $20. They should rather think of getting the city hyped about TFC again, bring some good memories and maybe bring some new fans to support TFC, and they will make money off of beer, food, jerseys exc. Please dont do what MLSE do so often and over price this game or else it will be more then half empty sky dome, shit atmosphere!

[james]

Toronto isn't the city Montreal is. And I say this simply from how the media works in that city. Most there are much more in touch with the local media than they are in Toronto. The papers, for example, would have given Montreal's entry into the quarter-finals more coverage than we got here, where CP reports were buried 6-7 pages into the Star and Globe this morning. It would have been mentioned in the morning radio shows. The media would have been selling the game with excitement. Here they are more likely to be moaning about the price of gas ... and focused less on local issues.

We couldn't pull off the 55,000 that Montreal did ... ironically we may be too big of a town, for it to attract that much attention that it does in somewhere more isolated culturally.

I'd be thrilled to be wrong though.

i wouldnt say we cant sell it out. We can because they have plenty of time to sell the tickets, but they will only sell if they are cheap.

As for Toronto not paying attention because its the big city, i blame the fact is we have more teams to cover then other cities do such as having a MLB and NBA team that no other cities have in Canada and even hosting NFL games, Toronto loves to cover the big Major North America sport leagues. Smaller leagues like TFC, Argos and exspecially the rock get pushed further back in the news while NHL, NFL, MLB and even maybe NBA fill the news pappers here. Other canadian cities like montreal advertise the teams they have because they well have less teams to cover.

[Juanito]

If we are playing in weather above 5 °C, BMO should be fine. It's cold, but I think the atmosphere of the game will keep us all warm.

However, it's a bit of a gamble. There's always the chance of really cold weather and more importantly, the structure (BMO), may not be ready.

Either way, I'll be there.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

If we are playing in weather above 5 °C, BMO should be fine. It's cold, but I think the atmosphere of the game will keep us all warm.

However, it's a bit of a gamble. There's always the chance of really cold weather and more importantly, the structure (BMO), may not be ready.

Either way, I'll be there.

now that we are a massive club...and quarter-final bound..:D


it's time for mlse to start thinking about building a proper...STADE DE BMO! ;)

[Juanito]

^^

A roof would go a long way.

[cincy]

Pumas won which means TFC will play the earlier date (Mar6-8)

[maninb]

Regardless of where people were born/raised, the fact is that TFC players will have spent the majority of January-March in Toronto, with the exception of the pre-season training in Florida. It's not a matter of what people would prefer, but what they are accustomed to and what they can handle.

Since the Mexican league will be at the height of the Aperatura, it's extremely unlikely that any team will be here more than a couple days ahead of the match, and therefore completely unaccustomed to the temperatures. So, with all due respect, ALL of our players will be much more accustomed to the climate than ANY visiting team.

Well said....People seem to forget that the ONLY time the CMNT has qualified for the WC is when we played the games in St Johns NFLD...in freezing weather...the Hondurans and Salvadorans wanted NO PART of it and were intimidated off the park!!!

[Waggy]

Well said....People seem to forget that the ONLY time the CMNT has qualified for the WC is when we played the games in St Johns NFLD...in freezing weather...the Hondurans and Salvadorans wanted NO PART of it and were intimidated off the park!!!

.... and the WC was in Mexico which meant that they had an automatic birth and the 2nd Concacaf spot was open for the taking. Not to diminish our qualifying, but Mexico already taking a spot was probably a bigger factor in us making it than playing games in St Johns was. It feels like there's a lot of romanticism about playing in the snow, but theres no inherent advantage. Our players aren't from places where you play in cold by and large. And it's not like TFC has EVER played a game in the snow. Why would it be to our advantage somehow? Look at the long grass in Tauro, or the turf here in the pre-grass days. Everyone said the home team should have the advantage because they're used to the conditions but the fact of the matter was the games were basically random. Balls would bounce, people would fall, what jersey colour people were wearing didn't matter. Playing in the snow we'd be as likely to score a shady weather assisted goal as concede it.

[nfitz]

Well said....People seem to forget that the ONLY time the CMNT has qualified for the WC is when we played the games in St Johns NFLD...in freezing weather...the Hondurans and Salvadorans wanted NO PART of it and were intimidated off the park!!!I remember watching the game against Honduras, and I don't recall it being particularly cold. Nor does Environment Canada (http://www.climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/hourlydata_e.html?StationID=6720&Month=9&Year=1985&timeframe=1&Day=14) ... about 11°C and cloudy. Not Honduras, but not unusual for a game in Canada in September. Not sure what El Salvador has to do with it - Canada didn't play them - our only other home game in that round was August 17th in Toronto against Costa Rica.

The key to winning that round is that we beat Honduras in Honduras, and drew both home and away against Costa Rica.

[lobo]

playing in the snow??? rather odd assumption ... BMO pitch is heated, and there's always shovels if needed :)

seriously ppl, i'm not buying any arguments against BMO based on the weather constraining game play ... the ball will NOT be hard as a rock, the pitch will not be frozen and snow covered and it will not be a muddy slippery injury prone affair, the players will not freeze in place ... if weather is bad, it will be worse on the crowd than the game ... as said earlier, its not magic that allows winter games across europe and asia, or football games in places like green bay, chicago, boston, and buffalo ... how do they get away with doing that?

i'm far more willing to concede arguments against BMO relating to frozen pipes than any arguments that say the game cannot be played in early march in toronto ... and any arguments about potential injuries playing in the cold are ignoring the fact that these guys are pros and will be properly warmed up, again not the first time a game will be played in cold weather ... and do we consider the alternative, better chance of injury on an artificial turf

sure are a lot of wet dreams fantasying about 50,000 out-of-the-closet-onto-the-bandwagon rabid supporters in the sterile dome leading to some miraculous renaissance of lost atmosphere and culture for TFC ... are we really suggesting that the attraction of an indoor game at skydome is a greater attraction than the team and the competition itself can generate? and why is there so much shilling for ML$E to generate bigger and bigger profits by playing at the dome? c'mon, really? this is supposed to motivate more ppl to come, that more hot dogs gonna be sold?

i give props to the one guy who suggested Rogers centre could be our Wembley for the big games ... nice sentiment, but it overlooks the fact that wembley is still an outdoor stadium and wembley has natural grass turf ... and i don't recall any examples of other MLS teams playing CCL games anywhere other than their home pitch ... hell, RSL played the CCL final at Rio Tinto, their home ... yeah, montreal did it, big deal

in any event, this really is a rather nice problem to have, isn't it? we got ourselves to the point where we debating the pros and cons of where to play the next big game instead of pining and whining about what could have been

i say leave the issue with torsten frings to decide

home, not dome

[rocker]

Well said....People seem to forget that the ONLY time the CMNT has qualified for the WC is when we played the games in St Johns NFLD...in freezing weather...the Hondurans and Salvadorans wanted NO PART of it and were intimidated off the park!!!

And Montreal beat Santos Laguna 2-0 in the climate controlled comfort of the Big O as well. TFC also beat Cruz Azul at home 3-2 in 2010 in the Toronto summer, when weather wasn't a factor.

I think we can beat the Mexicans at home without needing to use the weather as a factor. And there's no guarantee that the weather would make our job easier. Remember that Canada only beat Honduras in St. John's 2-1 in that weather. It wasn't like the weather helped Canada win 5-0.

I think some people are expecting that cold weather will make TFC win 5-0 or something...

[Couchy81]

If MLSE works this right, it will get people's butts in the seats at BMO next season. I like the idea of our packed BMO fortress in cold weather, but the idea of filling up the Skydome and having the roof closed could be epic if enough people show up. Whoever said $5 upper level was onto something, $10 supporter sections, $15-20 for everyone else and you can probably get 30,000-40,000 realistically if you advertise enough. Get some kids/charity groups in, and the energy from the supporter sections will bring TFC to life again in this city.

[PopePouri]

If MLSE works this right,

Let me stop you there.

[Couchy81]

.

I think some people are expecting that cold weather will make TFC win 5-0 or something...

The only people used to the cold weather will be the fans, most of the team aren't Canadian. It's just JDG and the Academy kids. (I dont see dunfield or zavarise starting, cann who knows)

[Couchy81]

Let me stop you there.

:D Sad but true, it's just a pipe dream

[Shakes McQueen]

I'd prefer to have it at SkyDome, if the ticket sales were there for it, because this is a great chance for the team to make a splash, publicity-wise.

However, the dome is booked the day of the match, so it'll be BMO regardless.

It'd be nice to see a sell out footy match at BMO, in the dead of March. Probably pretty surreal looking.

- Scott

[Razcle]

I was hoping for the dome only because I would love to watch TFC in a huge venue with majority home support. I have been waiting for this for the last 4 years after seeing the turnout Montreal had.

Maybe one day when we move into our big new stadium I guess.

[Shakes McQueen]

It'd probably also give the guys an added boost to be playing in a huge, noisy, domed stadium, on real grass and not freezing. Make it feel like a big event for them.

But oh well, not happening. Not a biggie. The fact that we are playing this game is enough for me. :D

- Scott

[Yohan]

Skydome will be one of few rare chances for all supporters to unite in one place.

[Platts]

Let me stop you there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Couchy81 http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1394014#post1394014)
If MLSE works this right,

Let me stop you there.



EVEN AMONG THE JOY OF THE LAST FEW DAYS....


LINE OF THE YEAR!

well done

[Platts]

don't discount how horrible the sightlines at the dome are. i spent a decade watching every CFL game there and only the 200 level has good seats.

Let's stay in OUR fiels with the home advantage of March.
mexico city has the altitude ...we have the chillatude

[Shakes McQueen]

don't discount how horrible the sightlines at the dome are. i spent a decade watching every CFL game there and only the 200 level has good seats.

Let's stay in OUR fiels with the home advantage of March.
mexico city has the altitude ...we have the chillatude

We don't play in Toronto in March, and many of our players are from countries with warmer climates. I think any claims of home field advantage based on the weather, are probably exaggerated.

- Scott

[Blizzard]

don't discount how horrible the sightlines at the dome are. i spent a decade watching every CFL game there and only the 200 level has good seats.

Let's stay in OUR fiels with the home advantage of March.
mexico city has the altitude ...we have the chillatude

The 100's are atrocious. The rake is far too shallow. Heads, heads and more heads. Compared to BMO, the 100's are hell.

The 200's are really good but I must admit to liking the 500's as you can see everything. For CFL, it's great. You see every pass route clearly and you know where the QB is throwing the ball before he does.

For soccer, I was there for Liverpool a couple of years back and while the 500's are a long way back, I still appreciate the view.

[ManUtd4ever]

I'd prefer to have it at SkyDome, if the ticket sales were there for it, because this is a great chance for the team to make a splash, publicity-wise.

However, the dome is booked the day of the match, so it'll be BMO regardless.

It'd be nice to see a sell out footy match at BMO, in the dead of March. Probably pretty surreal looking.

- Scott

http://events.rogerscentre.com/

The Rogers Center is still an option.

The Disney On Ice show is March 14-18, which will not conflict with the 1st leg that is to take place between March 6-8.

Pumas won last night, so TFC is now 2nd in Group C. The 1st leg against our next opponent will be in Toronto, and the 2nd leg will be on the road.

[lobo]

It'd probably also give the guys an added boost to be playing in a huge, noisy, domed stadium, on real grass and not freezing. Make it feel like a big event for them.

But oh well, not happening. Not a biggie. The fact that we are playing this game is enough for me. :D

- Scott

couple big assumptions there ... could also be cavernous and quiet on plastic carpet

very much agree with your last line, as i said earlier, it's a nice problem to have

[trane]

They have to try to get maximum mileage out of such a huge game. Even if the Skydome ( I mena Rogers Centre) is booked; it can be worked around, if it is imporatant for both the MLSE and Rogers.

[ochos]

A great problem to have indeed. Some great points being made

- BMO needs to be invested in and upgraded for long term
- even the sterile beast that is Skydome is tempting enough to have 45% of us (as of this post) in favour of watching the game there
- many agree we need an event such as this to reinvigorate the fan base
- BMO is the better option for watching football, and would be sure as hell even better if it had a roof
- grass is king, and the plastic stuff is not always greener on the other side

[jazzy]

If MLSE works this right, it will get people's butts in the seats at BMO next season. I like the idea of our packed BMO fortress in cold weather, but the idea of filling up the Skydome and having the roof closed could be epic if enough people show up. Whoever said $5 upper level was onto something, $10 supporter sections, $15-20 for everyone else and you can probably get 30,000-40,000 realistically if you advertise enough. Get some kids/charity groups in, and the energy from the supporter sections will bring TFC to life again in this city.

must admit it would be sheer magic if I could ever witness a TFC match with close to 40,000 fans...pure magic,..does anyone remember Canada playing the us at the baseball world tourney......at skydome,...it was electric and LOUD......but as someone mentioned Skydome's booked?..therefore if we can't (1/2) fill BMO field in the fair weather, how exactly do we fill it in the winter?

[NBS]

One thing that people may not be considering (I haven't read all the responses so I apologize if somebody brought it up), Rogers may own MLSE soon enough. At the very least, relations between the two seem to be getting cozy.

[RedRum]

playing in the snow??? rather odd assumption ... BMO pitch is heated, and there's always shovels if needed :)

seriously ppl, i'm not buying any arguments against BMO based on the weather constraining game play ... the ball will NOT be hard as a rock, the pitch will not be frozen and snow covered and it will not be a muddy slippery injury prone affair, the players will not freeze in place ... if weather is bad, it will be worse on the crowd than the game ... as said earlier, its not magic that allows winter games across europe and asia, or football games in places like green bay, chicago, boston, and buffalo ... how do they get away with doing that?

i'm far more willing to concede arguments against BMO relating to frozen pipes than any arguments that say the game cannot be played in early march in toronto ... and any arguments about potential injuries playing in the cold are ignoring the fact that these guys are pros and will be properly warmed up, again not the first time a game will be played in cold weather ... and do we consider the alternative, better chance of injury on an artificial turf

sure are a lot of wet dreams fantasying about 50,000 out-of-the-closet-onto-the-bandwagon rabid supporters in the sterile dome leading to some miraculous renaissance of lost atmosphere and culture for TFC ... are we really suggesting that the attraction of an indoor game at skydome is a greater attraction than the team and the competition itself can generate? and why is there so much shilling for ML$E to generate bigger and bigger profits by playing at the dome? c'mon, really? this is supposed to motivate more ppl to come, that more hot dogs gonna be sold?

i give props to the one guy who suggested Rogers centre could be our Wembley for the big games ... nice sentiment, but it overlooks the fact that wembley is still an outdoor stadium and wembley has natural grass turf ... and i don't recall any examples of other MLS teams playing CCL games anywhere other than their home pitch ... hell, RSL played the CCL final at Rio Tinto, their home ... yeah, montreal did it, big deal

in any event, this really is a rather nice problem to have, isn't it? we got ourselves to the point where we debating the pros and cons of where to play the next big game instead of pining and whining about what could have been

i say leave the issue with torsten frings to decide

home, not dome

This is a great post dude.

Add to that, based on TFC history every time we play a mexican team all kinds of unaffiliated mexicans and central americans come out and support the mexican team no matter who it is. If the game gets played at the dome there will be 24k and 6 or 7 of those will not be supporting TFC - not far off the same ratio of bodies to seats and team affiliation we saw in dallas :D and what did that get them?

18k at BMO. Heat the grass, bust out the shovels, and start training there as early as possible - as minimal as it may be. Order a few orange balls and some port-o-potties. Want to come out and freeze your balls off to support some team that means nothing to you every other day of your life? No way that will happen in any significant numbers.

We will be playing a mexican team at the height of their fitness in the middle of the clausura. Our guys will be 3 or 4 weeks into into training. Any level of comfort extended to the visitors is suicide. BMO. Fuck Anselmi and his pipes.

[denime]

playing in the snow??? rather odd assumption ... BMO pitch is heated, and there's always shovels if needed :)

seriously ppl, i'm not buying any arguments against BMO based on the weather constraining game play ... the ball will NOT be hard as a rock, the pitch will not be frozen and snow covered and it will not be a muddy slippery injury prone affair, the players will not freeze in place ... if weather is bad, it will be worse on the crowd than the game ... as said earlier, its not magic that allows winter games across europe and asia, or football games in places like green bay, chicago, boston, and buffalo ... how do they get away with doing that?

i'm far more willing to concede arguments against BMO relating to frozen pipes than any arguments that say the game cannot be played in early march in toronto ... and any arguments about potential injuries playing in the cold are ignoring the fact that these guys are pros and will be properly warmed up, again not the first time a game will be played in cold weather ... and do we consider the alternative, better chance of injury on an artificial turf

sure are a lot of wet dreams fantasying about 50,000 out-of-the-closet-onto-the-bandwagon rabid supporters in the sterile dome leading to some miraculous renaissance of lost atmosphere and culture for TFC ... are we really suggesting that the attraction of an indoor game at skydome is a greater attraction than the team and the competition itself can generate? and why is there so much shilling for ML$E to generate bigger and bigger profits by playing at the dome? c'mon, really? this is supposed to motivate more ppl to come, that more hot dogs gonna be sold?

i give props to the one guy who suggested Rogers centre could be our Wembley for the big games ... nice sentiment, but it overlooks the fact that wembley is still an outdoor stadium and wembley has natural grass turf ... and i don't recall any examples of other MLS teams playing CCL games anywhere other than their home pitch ... hell, RSL played the CCL final at Rio Tinto, their home ... yeah, montreal did it, big deal

in any event, this really is a rather nice problem to have, isn't it? we got ourselves to the point where we debating the pros and cons of where to play the next big game instead of pining and whining about what could have been

i say leave the issue with torsten frings to decide

home, not dome

+1

Great post and yes it is a nice problem to have it.

Let's hope this type of discussion repeats every year.

[Brocko]

This is a great post dude.

Add to that, based on TFC history every time we play a mexican team all kinds of unaffiliated mexicans and central americans come out and support the mexican team no matter who it is. If the game gets played at the dome there will be 24k and 6 or 7 of those will not be supporting TFC - not far off the same ratio of bodies to seats and team affiliation we saw in dallas :D and what did that get them?

18k at BMO. Heat the grass, bust out the shovels, and start training there as early as possible - as minimal as it may be. Order a few orange balls and some port-o-potties. Want to come out and freeze your balls off to support some team that means nothing to you every other day of your life? No way that will happen in any significant numbers.

We will be playing a mexican team at the height of their fitness in the middle of the clausura. Our guys will be 3 or 4 weeks into into training. Any level of comfort extended to the visitors is suicide. BMO. Fuck Anselmi and his pipes.
Why not take HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE and play in the cold of BMO outside. If we do the dome we are helping the Mexicans and their support. The Mexicans can break out their Parkas and eat a dick!!

[FIAF]

Skydome would be nice, hopefully lower ticket prices...but knowing MLSE...:(

[james]

This is a great post dude.

Add to that, based on TFC history every time we play a mexican team all kinds of unaffiliated mexicans and central americans come out and support the mexican team no matter who it is. If the game gets played at the dome there will be 24k and 6 or 7 of those will not be supporting TFC - not far off the same ratio of bodies to seats and team affiliation we saw in dallas :D and what did that get them?

18k at BMO. Heat the grass, bust out the shovels, and start training there as early as possible - as minimal as it may be. Order a few orange balls and some port-o-potties. Want to come out and freeze your balls off to support some team that means nothing to you every other day of your life? No way that will happen in any significant numbers.

We will be playing a mexican team at the height of their fitness in the middle of the clausura. Our guys will be 3 or 4 weeks into into training. Any level of comfort extended to the visitors is suicide. BMO. Fuck Anselmi and his pipes.


we have had some mexicans/Central americans come to support there teams over the years yes, but never have they been an organized supporters group. TFC fans have always out numbered the away supporters and have always been louder then the away supporters. Its the national team that you have worry about when it comes to Canadian fans getting outsung by away fans. (example Canada vs Honduars in montreal few years back), but Im not worried at all about TFC fans getting showed up. Its really not an issue.

[lobo]

This is a great post dude.


+1 Great post and yes it is a nice problem to have.

cheers boys

[james]

playing in the snow??? rather odd assumption ... BMO pitch is heated, and there's always shovels if needed :)

seriously ppl, i'm not buying any arguments against BMO based on the weather constraining game play ... the ball will NOT be hard as a rock, the pitch will not be frozen and snow covered and it will not be a muddy slippery injury prone affair, the players will not freeze in place ... if weather is bad, it will be worse on the crowd than the game ... as said earlier, its not magic that allows winter games across europe and asia, or football games in places like green bay, chicago, boston, and buffalo ... how do they get away with doing that?

i'm far more willing to concede arguments against BMO relating to frozen pipes than any arguments that say the game cannot be played in early march in toronto ... and any arguments about potential injuries playing in the cold are ignoring the fact that these guys are pros and will be properly warmed up, again not the first time a game will be played in cold weather ... and do we consider the alternative, better chance of injury on an artificial turf

sure are a lot of wet dreams fantasying about 50,000 out-of-the-closet-onto-the-bandwagon rabid supporters in the sterile dome leading to some miraculous renaissance of lost atmosphere and culture for TFC ... are we really suggesting that the attraction of an indoor game at skydome is a greater attraction than the team and the competition itself can generate? and why is there so much shilling for ML$E to generate bigger and bigger profits by playing at the dome? c'mon, really? this is supposed to motivate more ppl to come, that more hot dogs gonna be sold?

i give props to the one guy who suggested Rogers centre could be our Wembley for the big games ... nice sentiment, but it overlooks the fact that wembley is still an outdoor stadium and wembley has natural grass turf ... and i don't recall any examples of other MLS teams playing CCL games anywhere other than their home pitch ... hell, RSL played the CCL final at Rio Tinto, their home ... yeah, montreal did it, big deal

in any event, this really is a rather nice problem to have, isn't it? we got ourselves to the point where we debating the pros and cons of where to play the next big game instead of pining and whining about what could have been

i say leave the issue with torsten frings to decide

home, not dome


Well montreal is a big deal because they have the exact same situation as us, they have a much bigger domed stadium down the road, so of course your gonna look at the options.

As far as other teams playing in other stadiums i do know Seattle Sounders have used another smaller stadium probably not much bigger then lamport stadium, just south of Seattle in US Open Cup matches but probably because seattle seahawks were using there main home ground. And im not sure about in last few years since the Concacaf Champions League has been revamped, but in the old format some northern US teams palyed there games in more southern US cities, they stayed away from playing in the snow. The league has inproved as has the tournament but still.

however other points to look at are, Russia, Denmark, Ukraine, and other northern cold climate winter Europe teams compete in Europa and Champions League in the middle of winter, and it gets dam cold weather that is worse then are March avereage temperatures and snow falls and they still play. Cold shouldnt be an issue, its March not January and February. But ya the only thing i would say is are stadium was built on the cheap and was not made to be used in the cold and may not beable to handle the cold, frozen pipes, icy stair ways exc.

[Phil]

Only issue would be the pipes (possibly the weather) and to fix that you order porta potties.

BMO is the place. If it were ever at skydome, the only way to pack it would be to give away the tickets to all the local kids soccer clubs. I thought Montreal did that a few years ago and it worked well, but I say we use the weather to our advantage and make the visiting team enjoy our lovely March weather. :D

[Flint]

My biggest issue would be gettinig ticket allocation for supporters whereever we play.

But if the game is at skydome be prepared for one of the biggest TIFO's in club history:D

[JavierMartini]

how about you don't get involved. As i'd love to see this game at the SKYDOME. Jeez I can't belive soo many are desperate to go out to bmo in the winter I'd rather buy overpriced beer in a warm 50-thousandish environment.

[J .]

BMO is our home and ground. Skydome is for the Jays and pointyball.

Time to build some history at our stadium.

[james]

some average temperatures to compare with in Europe

Toronto average in March
Low - 3
High +4

Munich play in February
low -3.7
High +3.5

Turin play in January
low -3.1
High +4

Glasogow play in January
average low +1
Average high +6

Msocow play in March
average low -4.7
average high +2.2

Krakov play in March
average low -1
average high +7

[NBS]

some average temperatures to compare with in Europe

Toronto average in March
Low - 3
High +4

Munich play in February
low -3.7
High +3.5

Turin play in January
low -3.1
High +4

Glasogow play in January
average low +1
Average high +6

Msocow play in March
average low -4.7
average high +2.2

Krakov play in March
average low -1
average high +7

None of that really matters though. It's not part of the culture here and it will offer little to no competitive advantage since our own players don't play in these conditions.

The real clincher however is the cost to MLSE of starting the grass up at that time of year. They won't do it for one game when Skydome is sitting right there. I think the odds of BMO are pretty close to 0%, as all evidence seems to fall on the side of Skydome.

[manic.street.preacher]

BMO Field 100%...

I don't want to sound like an ass - but put on a coat & hat if you want to be there live... If not, HD TV at Real Sports is your option...

My favourite is people saying "...nobody will show up in the cold..." Yeah, becasue that has killed teams like the Green Bay Packers!

If you WANT to be there, March temperatures aren't Minus-40 - and you will be there...

And funny enough, our bad weather games are usually our best atmosphere. We've all seen what 20,000 people sitting on their hands is like - and its nothing like 5,000 passionate fans making some noise...

Carts...
^this exactly. march isn't that bad ... the mexicans might disagree, but we've survived worse

[TFCRegina]

Skydome if MLSE drops ticket prices significantly and tries to use the game as a marketing opportunity for the sport and team.
If they don't cut the prices and have no intention of doing so, BMO Field.

[uncle p]

how about you don't get involved. As i'd love to see this game at the SKYDOME. Jeez I can't belive soo many are desperate to go out to bmo in the winter I'd rather buy overpriced beer in a warm 50-thousandish environment.

I can quite easily!! maybe the two sides will have to agree to disagree but I want the biggest game in club history (until the next one at least) to be played on our HOME PITCH, the same grounds that was built specifically for TFC!! I wanna start building some real history at home. I'll say that last part again just so everyone is clear where i stand on this issue...I wanna start building some real history at home!!

MLSE has almost 6 months to figure something out with the pipes and pitch. I dont think the Dome should even be a consideration!!

[TFC07]

Isn't Sky Dome already booked on March 6-8?

[NBS]

Isn't Sky Dome already booked on March 6-8?

Nope. But it will be soon :)

[GuelphStorm2007]

BMO is our home, But if there is a hope in chance that they can potentially draw a huge crowd at Rogers I say go for it. Why not

[JavierMartini]

BMO is our home and ground. Skydome is for the Jays and pointyball.

Time to build some history at our stadium.

Then upgrade the stadium for the big game so more people start to follow the club! With this historic run we have coming .

[denime]

Nope. But it will be soon :)

Maybe for some other event, but not for CCL 1/4 finals . ;)

[jimiv]

Should be at BMO, Skydome will be full of away supporters if they don't have to deal with the cold.

[djking2]

I voted BMO for sure but I recall Montreal's 55k for the Santos game was a N. American record for a competitive club match(I could be wrong, doesn't matter). So part of me wants a shot at 55k + 1

[TorontoPat]

I predict a mild winter, pipes shouldn't be a problem in March

[werewolf]

I voted BMO for sure but I recall Montreal's 55k for the Santos game was a N. American record for a competitive club match(I could be wrong, doesn't matter). So part of me wants a shot at 55k + 1

Skydome capacity at most for pointyball games in 54 000, trying to fit another 1500 in would be a bit of a problem. But as mentioned multiple times, if MLSE did this right, playing at Skydome could be magic.

[TFC/Everton]

Well, it looks like it will be the Skydome. So, lets get behind this and make it the greatest soccer event in the history of Toronto!

[james]

None of that really matters though. It's not part of the culture here and it will offer little to no competitive advantage since our own players don't play in these conditions.

The real clincher however is the cost to MLSE of starting the grass up at that time of year. They won't do it for one game when Skydome is sitting right there. I think the odds of BMO are pretty close to 0%, as all evidence seems to fall on the side of Skydome.

i didnt really have a point, was just showing that if we were to play in March its not as bad as people make it out to be. many countries play in those temperatures. But are stadium is crap and probably cant handle that weather. Sky Dome is fine with me as long as they fill it, otherwise it will be shitty.

[tfc2008]

No vote for this. Soccer is a outdoor sport

[nfitz]

some average temperatures to compare with in Europe

Toronto average in March
Low - 3
High +4

Turin play in January
low -3.1
High +4The average low may be -3.1 in Turin, but the extreme lows are nothing like Toronto. This is what bursts pipes. The average low for turin in January 2011 was -1, however the coldest it got the entire month was only -6 (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LIMF/2011/1/1/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA). In 2010, the average low was -3, however the extreme low was only -6. In 2009, -3 and -7. In 2008 the average low was 0, and the extreme low was -4.

Compare to Toronto on March 6th (http://climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/almanac_e.html?timeframe=4&Prov=ONT&StationID=5097&Year=2001&Month=3&Day=6). The average low is -7. However the extreme low is -27.8 (in 1948). Recent lows were -8 in 2011, -4 in 2010, 1.3 in 2009, -4.7 in 2008, and -22.1 in 2007.

It's those extreme lows - much lower in Toronto in early March, than Italy in January that stop us playing here.

Munich is a bit more comparable, but even there, it normally get's well above freezing most days in February without the extremes we see here. This is not true in Toronto on March 6th, where the high was only -12 in 2007. This is the difference between an unfrozen pitch, and a metre of ice in the ground (or a damaged heating system).

I challenge anyone to find a place where they do regularly play soccer in those kind of temperatures.


Only issue would be the pipes (possibly the weather) and to fix that you order porta potties.I fail to see how potties will deal with the $100,000+ damage to the underfield pipes at BMO Field; you must have some interesting thermal properties!

[james]

The average low may be -3.1 in Turin, but the extreme lows are nothing like Toronto. This is what bursts pipes. The average low for turin in January 2011 was -1, however the coldest it got the entire month was only -6 (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LIMF/2011/1/1/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA). In 2010, the average low was -3, however the extreme low was only -6. In 2009, -3 and -7. In 2008 the average low was 0, and the extreme low was -4.

Compare to Toronto on March 6th (http://climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/almanac_e.html?timeframe=4&Prov=ONT&StationID=5097&Year=2001&Month=3&Day=6). The average low is -7. However the extreme low is -27.8 (in 1948). Recent lows were -8 in 2011, -4 in 2010, 1.3 in 2009, -4.7 in 2008, and -22.1 in 2007.

It's those extreme lows - much lower in Toronto in early March, than Italy in January that stop us playing here.

I challenge anyone to find a place where they do regularly play soccer in those kind of temperatures.

I fail to see how potties will deal with the $100,000+ damage to the underfield pipes at BMO Field; you must have some interesting thermal properties!

ya thats probably true, Toronto does get some crazy extremes in both highs and lows that can happen any time in the year. As a challenge tho Moscow and other parts of Russia averages colder temperatures then Toronto does, and they do play in March and even February in Europa and Champions League. And i dont know what extremes they have, but id imagine they have some crazy extremes much like Toronto.

[menefreghista]

Well, it looks like it will be the Skydome. So, lets get behind this and make it the greatest soccer event in the history of Toronto!

How do you know?

[TFC/Everton]

How do you know?

Well, prior to the game today, TSN interviewed Tom Anselmi and it seemed to me Skydome was the place.

[nfitz]

ya thats probably true, Toronto does get some crazy extremes in both highs and lows that can happen any time in the year. As a challenge tho Moscow and other parts of Russia averages colder temperatures then Toronto does, and they do play in March and even February in Europa and Champions League. And i dont know what extremes they have, but id imagine they have some crazy extremes much like Toronto.Now that may be a good comparison. The Russian season starts in March about the same time as ours, (this year). But there was that Champions League Round of 16 game back in February 2010. I don't follow Russian soccer enough to comment on the situation ... perhaps the stadium is winterized? That one they played on has field turf though doesn't it ... that would be easier to play on in the winter. Playing at BMO might not be such the issue if we still had the field turf. Khimki is grass though ... it would be interesting to see the conditions they have played there.

[nfitz]

Well, prior to the game today, TSN interviewed Tom Anselmi and it seemed to me Skydome was the place.He's been saying that consistently to everyone who will listen for weeks. The debate is only academic, as unless Winter has huge objections to SkyDome, the decision seems to have been made a long time ago.

[Auzzy]

I was hoping the club wouldn't say anything definitive about this yet, so we could continue debating the point for a few months. What the hell else are we going to talk about now. :D

[denime]

The average low may be -3.1 in Turin, but the extreme lows are nothing like Toronto. This is what bursts pipes. The average low for turin in January 2011 was -1, however the coldest it got the entire month was only -6 (http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LIMF/2011/1/1/MonthlyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA). In 2010, the average low was -3, however the extreme low was only -6. In 2009, -3 and -7. In 2008 the average low was 0, and the extreme low was -4.

Compare to Toronto on March 6th (http://climate.weatheroffice.gc.ca/climateData/almanac_e.html?timeframe=4&Prov=ONT&StationID=5097&Year=2001&Month=3&Day=6). The average low is -7. However the extreme low is -27.8 (in 1948). Recent lows were -8 in 2011, -4 in 2010, 1.3 in 2009, -4.7 in 2008, and -22.1 in 2007.

It's those extreme lows - much lower in Toronto in early March, than Italy in January that stop us playing here.

Munich is a bit more comparable, but even there, it normally get's well above freezing most days in February without the extremes we see here. This is not true in Toronto on March 6th, where the high was only -12 in 2007. This is the difference between an unfrozen pitch, and a metre of ice in the ground (or a damaged heating system).

I challenge anyone to find a place where they do regularly play soccer in those kind of temperatures.

I fail to see how potties will deal with the $100,000+ damage to the underfield pipes at BMO Field; you must have some interesting thermal properties!


Beside that BMO field has the best grass heating system in NA,do you really think they will have sprinklers going in March?


and BTW I have an info that BMO Field would be ok for March CCL game thanks to heating,decision is not made,they have until November to give the COCNCARAP the venue for 1/4 finals.

Concidering that we are playing one of 4 Mexican teams (Santos Laguna,Monterrey,Pumas and Morelia) BMO is the better choice by far.

[Bars92]

Save this stunt for an MLS playoff game at least i says.

[uncle p]

Pipe issues aside, I cant really comment on those, so i'll just say this...If your more excited about this game cause you like the idea of 50k being in attendance, or attendance is a priority above the result than I feel sorry for you....

[NBS]

Pipe issues aside, I cant really comment on those, so i'll just say this...If your more excited about this game cause you like the idea of 50k being in attendance, or attendance is a priority above the result than I feel sorry for you....

I can only speak for myself, but if we somehow got 40K+, I value the effect it will have on our players for that game. I value the buzz it will create, which I see as a benefit for the team in general. I value having casual fans engaged, because I do think they are an important part of the process going forward, like it or not. General interest is good for the team in terms of coverage and atmosphere, which I think helps the product on the pitch directly and indirectly. Making the CCL into an "event" might also educate the casual fan about the importance of this tournament.

I'm under no illusions that this one game will necessarily do all of these things, but it's part of what I hope (God do I hope) will be model of sustained successes for this club going forward.

[Detroit_TFC]

Based on a conversation I had with an insider yesterday, very likely to be at Dome.

[TFCDP]

^ Good.. This is a great oppurtunity to get 40-50k fans.. They have 4 months to market this game.. Also, getting all supporter groups in one section will be a nice experiment.. Just wonder what kind of pitch they'd be playing on.

[deltox]

when we started back in 2007, we were the talk of the league. how we packed them in week after week and how rowdy we were.

we have lost this over the yrs.

the rogers centre would create the buzz. it would remind people about this team. it would also give opportunity to fans that have never gone to a game to see what the team is about. new fans and kids that really are the future support of this team. if you want kids to be inspired to be lifelong fans, then 40,000+ in the rogers centre would do it. In 20 yrs, people will say.....i was there. it was crazy.
if we made it to the quarters every yr, then that game could be our "winter classic"

this really will be the only opportunity that the FO will have to try something like this. i say they would rather go for it that be at BMO and say what if.

either way, i know ill be there and i know you'll be there. but the team also has to think about the marketing aspect of it. to them....its still a business.

if you were the business guy in charge. you KNOW you would explore the rogers centre.

[Batman]

When nearly half of the most avid fans prefer the dome over BMO, where do you think the casual fans would prefer?

I think they'd prefer the dome at that time of year, therefore, in order to get as many people out there as possible, I'd prefer the dome.

[menefreghista]

Well, prior to the game today, TSN interviewed Tom Anselmi and it seemed to me Skydome was the place.

Thanks.

I didn't catch the broadcast.

So where's the best place for the supporter's to sit? 100 level outfield? 200 levels?

Hopefully the club doesn't make the 500 level the equivalent of the BMO yellow price level.

[ensco]

Thanks.

I didn't catch the broadcast.

So where's the best place for the supporter's to sit? 100 level outfield? 200 levels?

Hopefully the club doesn't make the 500 level the equivalent of the BMO yellow price level.

They set up temporary stands in back of one of the end zones for the Bills games. That's the obvious solution.

[menefreghista]

They set up temporary stands in back of one of the end zones for the Bills games. That's the obvious solution.

That's interesting. I never really paid attention to the NFL set up.

All I know is that i do not want to sit in the 100 level (the baseball foul territory). The view will be awful.

[Oldtimer]

Looks like its decided which way the club is leaning:


Tom Anselmi, Executive Vice President and COO of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, confirmed to TSN that talks are taking place with the Rogers Centre to discuss the possibility of moving the game indoors. Although the pitch at BMO Field would not be an issue due to its underground heating system, the concern is whether the stadium would be ready to go in early March with the potential for frozen pipes a major problem.
While Toronto could potentially benefit from the 'home advantage' of playing a Mexican side in below freezing temperatures, the safer bet is to move the game across the city. After five years of missing the MLS playoffs, getting a big crowd in the Rogers Centre would be a great way to kick-off the new season and create a buzz around the team heading into year six.
The last time a Canadian team made it to the quarter-final of the Champions League was in 2009, ansd saw the impact made when Montreal had a crowd of over 50,000 at Olympic Stadium for their match with Santos Laguna. It was an incredible soccer spectacle on that night. Three years later, there is a very realistic possibility that those scenes could be repeated in Toronto this winter.

http://tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=378754

[Oldtimer]

Let's hope ML$E is smart enough to paper the house with cheap tix like Montreal did.

[Empirical]

When nearly half of the most avid fans prefer the dome over BMO, where do you think the casual fans would prefer?

I think they'd prefer the dome at that time of year, therefore, in order to get as many people out there as possible, I'd prefer the dome.

here here.

[lobo]

I voted BMO for sure but I recall Montreal's 55k for the Santos game was a N. American record for a competitive club match(I could be wrong, doesn't matter). So part of me wants a shot at 55k + 1

i believe seattle just drew 64k to their last home game for kasey keller retirement tribute

[kodiakTFC]

i believe seattle just drew 64k to their last home game for kasey keller retirement tribute

Not to mention this..

MLS Top 10 Single Game Attendances
69,255 L.A. Galaxy v NY/NJ MetroStars (4/13/1996)
66,237 New York Red Bulls v L.A. Galaxy (8/18/2007)
62,703 L.A. Galaxy v New England Revolution (7/4/1996)
61,202 Colorado Rapids v Chicago Fire (7/4/2002)
60,500 Colorado Rapids v D.C. United (7/4/2001)
60,433 L.A. Galaxy v Miami Fusion (7/4/1999)
55,234 L.A. Galaxy v San Jose Earthquakes (7/4/2002)
53,844 L.A. Galaxy v Columbus Crew (7/4/2000)
53,655 L.A. Galaxy v Kansas City Wizards (7/4/1998)
53,250 NY/NJ MetroStars v L.A. Galaxy (6/9/1996)

[Oldtimer]

The 55k was the second highest ever in Montreal.

[ManUtd4ever]

Looks like its decided which way the club is leaning:



http://tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=378754

Excellent news. The article is also very encouraging regarding the prospects of retaining Eckersley.

[TorCanSoc]

Not to mention this..

MLS Top 10 Single Game Attendances
69,255 L.A. Galaxy v NY/NJ MetroStars (4/13/1996)
66,237 New York Red Bulls v L.A. Galaxy (8/18/2007)
62,703 L.A. Galaxy v New England Revolution (7/4/1996)
61,202 Colorado Rapids v Chicago Fire (7/4/2002)
60,500 Colorado Rapids v D.C. United (7/4/2001)
60,433 L.A. Galaxy v Miami Fusion (7/4/1999)
55,234 L.A. Galaxy v San Jose Earthquakes (7/4/2002)
53,844 L.A. Galaxy v Columbus Crew (7/4/2000)
53,655 L.A. Galaxy v Kansas City Wizards (7/4/1998)
53,250 NY/NJ MetroStars v L.A. Galaxy (6/9/1996)

Wow. I never knew.

The 80K when LA Galaxy played Sydney FC was pretty impressive as well. Granted it was in Australia, during one of the Becks tours when he first joined.

It would be a pretty amazing spectacle for me to watch TFC in a meaningful game, with 49,999 other people.

How would they do it? $25 lower bowl tickets, first come first served. $10 upper bowl tickets? And $90 per ticket for season seat holders? [sorry had to take a dig]

[jazzy]

Wow. I never knew.

The 80K when LA Galaxy played Sydney FC was pretty impressive as well. Granted it was in Australia, during one of the Becks tours when he first joined.

It would be a pretty amazing spectacle for me to watch TFC in a meaningful game, with 49,999 other people.

How would they do it? $25 lower bowl tickets, first come first served. $10 upper bowl tickets? And $90 per ticket for season seat holders? [sorry had to take a dig]

here's my worry MLSE sends out post: sth's get your reserved tickets before the public, at the inflated cost of $40, some buy, but days before game time they're going for 1/2 that, cause we all bock at overpricing.....and missed opportunity.

[james]

They set up temporary stands in back of one of the end zones for the Bills games. That's the obvious solution.

but how many seats are there in this teporary stand? if its less then what we would have in the South End at BMO i dont really want it to be there as the whole excitement is this is a chance to have big attendence numbers, and my hope bigger number of supporters all together, not a smaller amount of supporters. If the stand is small, have th supporters section somewhere else, as there is plenty of places they could locate it.

[james]

Pipe issues aside, I cant really comment on those, so i'll just say this...If your more excited about this game cause you like the idea of 50k being in attendance, or attendance is a priority above the result than I feel sorry for you....

to be honest it might be harder to fill the sky dome with 50,000+ for a playoff game then it is to for this game, reason being, playoffs schedules arent set till often just a week or 2 before the game, does not give much time to advertise and sell the tickets. This game they have 4 or 5 months to do it, plenty of time!

[james]

The 55k was the second highest ever in Montreal.

and i think its the highest in Concacaf Champions League.

[nfitz]

Beside that BMO field has the best grass heating system in NA,do you really think they will have sprinklers going in March?I'm sure they'll have the sprinklers going by March 30th ... not quite sure what you are saying though.


Concidering that we are playing one of 4 Mexican teams (Santos Laguna,Monterrey,Pumas and Morelia) BMO is the better choice by far.A little less cider may be in order ... unless CONCACAF changes the format, we won't be playing either Pumas or Morelia. Pumas was in our group, and Morelia finished second to the LA Galaxy. I'd expect them to rig it so that Galaxy plays Seattle, and we'll be stuck playing Santos Laguna or Monterray. Unless they really rig it, so the Mexican teams all play each other in the quarters and semis.

Is BMO the best facility? Depends on the criteria. Would it draw the biggest crowd - no. Would it give the biggest media splash no. Will they actually be able to play there, and not delay the tournament - probably, but not necessarily. Will it be the cheapest place to play - not if they weather is poor. Does it have the best site lines, yes. Will it give us a small advantage - maybe.




The 55k was the second highest ever in Montreal.Second highest ever what? Highest Impact attendance. But they have been several soccer games over the years that have drawn more than that.

[123 elite]

Considering the seaon we have just had does anyone seriously think we can pull 40-50k into the skydome? Does anyone seriously think 5000 freebies to kids is the atmosphere we want or need? I think the only 'real' sell out this season was LA Galaxy because Beckham was playing and you could still buy tickets at half time. The skydome is a terrible venue to do anything other than baseball at. A packed prepared and well oiled BMO is the best option. Lets face it ...the only thing that is going to sell this club now is winning. The idea that people are going to be suddenly turned on in March by a CCL game where our highest attendance has so far been well short of pitiful is fantasy. BMO it should be. Anything else is glossy fantasy nonsense doomed to failure.

[deltox]

i believe seattle just drew 64k to their last home game for kasey keller retirement tribute


to be fair, this ticket was bundled with the man utd friendly ticket from earlier in the season

[TorCanSoc]

I think if its priced right, we can get 40K. Us die-hards are what in number? 10K?

Like or not, its the casuals that will fill the stadium in March. Someone posted before, and I agree with them, the casuals will not come to BMO in March. But could be persuaded/"marketed to" if the game is at the Rogers Centre, and its priced right.

[menefreghista]

Considering the seaon we have just had does anyone seriously think we can pull 40-50k into the skydome? Does anyone seriously think 5000 freebies to kids is the atmosphere we want or need? I think the only 'real' sell out this season was LA Galaxy because Beckham was playing and you could still buy tickets at half time. The skydome is a terrible venue to do anything other than baseball at. A packed prepared and well oiled BMO is the best option. Lets face it ...the only thing that is going to sell this club now is winning. The idea that people are going to be suddenly turned on in March by a CCL game where our highest attendance has so far been well short of pitiful is fantasy. BMO it should be. Anything else is glossy fantasy nonsense doomed to failure.

I agree with this.

MLSE/TFC FO have shown over the last 5 years that when they have to actually work at marketing the team it is a failure. They've killed the buzz surrounding this team and I'm not sure a CCL quarter final spot is enough to bring it back.

But like I've said before, if TFC somehow draws LA and Beckham re-signs with the Galaxy this game will have a decent draw.


I think if its priced right, we can get 40K. Us die-hards are what in number? 10K?

Like or not, its the casuals that will fill the stadium in March. Someone posted before, and I agree with them, the casuals will not come to BMO in March. But could be persuaded/"marketed to" if the game is at the Rogers Centre, and its priced right.

But these same 'casuals' you speak of prefer weekend games to mid-week games.

[ensco]

^If Anselmi is still in charge, they will hold BMO pricing at Skydome, and therefore get maybe 15,000. They'll close the upper bowl, a la Seattle.

This regime will never concede that the pricing model is a failure. It will not do anything that actually acknowledges that there is a pricing/demand issue with TFC.

It'll be up to the next regime to fix this.

[Whoop]

Not to mention this..

MLS Top 10 Single Game Attendances
69,255 L.A. Galaxy v NY/NJ MetroStars (4/13/1996)
66,237 New York Red Bulls v L.A. Galaxy (8/18/2007)
62,703 L.A. Galaxy v New England Revolution (7/4/1996)
61,202 Colorado Rapids v Chicago Fire (7/4/2002)
60,500 Colorado Rapids v D.C. United (7/4/2001)
60,433 L.A. Galaxy v Miami Fusion (7/4/1999)
55,234 L.A. Galaxy v San Jose Earthquakes (7/4/2002)
53,844 L.A. Galaxy v Columbus Crew (7/4/2000)
53,655 L.A. Galaxy v Kansas City Wizards (7/4/1998)
53,250 NY/NJ MetroStars v L.A. Galaxy (6/9/1996)

NASL records were pretty big too.

77,691 Fort Lauderdale Strikers at New York Cosmos, 1977
76,031 Tulsa Roughnecks at New York Cosmos, 1979
74,901 New York Cosmos vs Tampa Bay Rowdies, 1978
73,669 Rochester Lancers at New York Cosmos, 1977
72,342 Fort Lauderdale Strikers at New York Cosmos, 1979
71,219 Seattle Sounders at New York Cosmos, 1978
70,312 Fort Lauderdale Strikers at New York Cosmos, 1980
65,287 Portland Timbers at New York Cosmos, 1978
62,497 New England Tea Men at New York Cosmos, 1978
62,394 Tampa Bay Rowdies at New York Cosmos, 1977

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

prepare for a view like this....was from the united vs celtic game.. the united end was more accommodating for a bigger group...and i would assume thats the end that would be for a group of our size!!! The is a massive WALL in front of this section...as we are elevated...but could hold...TONS of BANNERS!!

the only thing is get used to this view..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theleutners/4803760658/in/photostream/



but in saying all of that..i do think there is temp that can be placed in front of that section..im sure they use it for argo games

[james]

prepare for a view like this....was from the united vs celtic game.. the united end was more accommodating for a bigger group...and i would assume thats the end that would be for a group of our size!!! The is a massive WALL in front of this section...as we are elevated...but could hold...TONS of BANNERS!!

the only thing is get used to this view..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theleutners/4803760658/in/photostream/

views not all that bad, at bmo field you cant really see the North End net, you cant tell if it went in the net till about 3 seconds after its in the net.

[james]

Considering the seaon we have just had does anyone seriously think we can pull 40-50k into the skydome? Does anyone seriously think 5000 freebies to kids is the atmosphere we want or need? I think the only 'real' sell out this season was LA Galaxy because Beckham was playing and you could still buy tickets at half time. The skydome is a terrible venue to do anything other than baseball at. A packed prepared and well oiled BMO is the best option. Lets face it ...the only thing that is going to sell this club now is winning. The idea that people are going to be suddenly turned on in March by a CCL game where our highest attendance has so far been well short of pitiful is fantasy. BMO it should be. Anything else is glossy fantasy nonsense doomed to failure.

im not saying it will sell out or even be more then 20,000 fans at the sky dome...but to say it deffinitly wont be full do to the fact we havent sold out all the games this season isnt a good example that we deffinitly wont fill the Sky Dome. For example Montreal Impact home stadium at the time had 13,000 capacity and they were getting numbers like 9,000, 11,000 and even as low as about 7,000 fans just before they played the game at the montreal dome, which ended up with +50,000.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

eXH0s7PG2K4

no doubt our supporters could could have a massive voice in that section behind the net ..with its overhanging roof..:)

I was all bmo a few days ago.....but


im starting to think...this could be really interesting....and alot of fun!

Our supporters section would be mental....in that section

[123 elite]

im not saying it will sell out or even be more then 20,000 fans at the sky dome...but to say it deffinitly wont be full do to the fact we havent sold out all the games this season isnt a good example that we deffinitly wont fill the Sky Dome. For example Montreal Impact home stadium at the time had 13,000 capacity and they were getting numbers like 9,000, 11,000 and even as low as about 7,000 fans just before they played the game at the montreal dome, which ended up with +50,000.

But for Montreal it was a massive game considering the level they played at at the time. A bit like the non league club getting to the FA cup fifth round. Regardless of how 'big' this game is on these forums the majority of Toronto fans have shown indifference to this competition not just this year but also in past years. Add to that the terrible season they had and the real possibility season ticket renewals could drop into the 4 figures then its a tall order to fill the skydome especially before there has been any sign of new season progress.

[cmonyoureds]

LOL don't kid yourselves. this game will be played where the biggest $'s can be generated.

i'm pretty sure the biggest $'s will come from the building you co-own and 100% of concessions sold, along with your other major tenant collecting a giant amount of parking revenue. (at least i think they do, but feel free to correct that)

why would you risk putting this game in the Rogers centre and have all your fans, more importantly your casual fans, sit through 90 mins plus stoppage of relentless 2012 Blue Jays advertising?

LOL if I'm Rogers I'm giving the facility for free and going on the mother of all ticket drives at the stadium if 50k show up to this event.

[glaze]

I think it'll be at the dome. It'll cost ML$E big money to get BMO ready. Guess they should've factored this in before they built the stadium on the cheap. Personally, I'd much prefer the atmosphere of playing in the elements. But, I don't know if we'll be able to fill the place. Or even the lower bowl. None of the CCL games have been well attended at BMO. Nor have the world cup qualifying games. Just because montreal filled the place, doesn't mean we'll be able to. I hope I am proved wrong in March.

[Oldtimer]

LOL don't kid yourselves. this game will be played where the biggest $'s can be generated.

i'm pretty sure the biggest $'s will come from the building you co-own and 100% of concessions sold, along with your other major tenant collecting a giant amount of parking revenue. (at least i think they do, but feel free to correct that)

why would you risk putting this game in the Rogers centre and have all your fans, more importantly your casual fans, sit through 90 mins plus stoppage of relentless 2012 Blue Jays advertising?

LOL if I'm Rogers I'm giving the facility for free and going on the mother of all ticket drives at the stadium if 50k show up to this event.


Looks like you didn't read the last page of this thread, Luke Wileman says it will be at the Rogers Centre, provided a deal can be worked out:

http://tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=378754

[cmonyoureds]

Looks like you didn't read the last page of this thread, Luke Wileman says it will be at the Rogers Centre, provided a deal can be worked out:

http://tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=378754

oh i read that, particularly the part about "provided a deal can be worked out"

until then i'll leave the car parked in the direction of BMO, not Rogers centre.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

when is the DRAW??

[Auzzy]

I've heard that the draw for the quarter-final matches will be in November. Last year the results were released on Nov. 1st.

[Waggy]

oh i read that, particularly the part about "provided a deal can be worked out"

until then i'll leave the car parked in the direction of BMO, not Rogers centre.

Ya I hear you. Why would rogers want the dome to have 30-50 000 people in it unexpectedly during it's off season. Makes absolutely no sense. Besides, we all know Rogers and MLSE can't work together. That's why their attempt to get Bills games here annually failed so spectacularly a few years back
/sarcasm

Both parties are in the business of making money. Having the game at the dome makes both parties a lot more money than it does at BMO. Not to mention they have a good working relationship anyways, and I'm sure Rogers wouldn't mind MLSE owing them one down the road. Assuming ownership of MLSE doesn't change as soon as the NBA lockout ends anyways (I'd assume it does actually). If that happens, well we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. But the non winterized pipes thing tells me whether or not the game is at the dome, it will not be at BMO. There's laws that say if theres x many people you need x many working washrooms and water fountains etc. If they don't winterize the pipes by then the game 100000% CAN NOT be at BMO. Plus if there's no running water, there's no food. And remember the deal MLSE has with the city for BMO- they make their money on concessions, most of the gate money goes to the city. MLSE stands to make WAY less money having the game at BMO (little gate, no concession money) than at the skydome (LOTS of gate, no concession money)

[james]

eXH0s7PG2K4

no doubt our supporters could could have a massive voice in that section behind the net ..with its overhanging roof..:)

I was all bmo a few days ago.....but


im starting to think...this could be really interesting....and alot of fun!

Our supporters section would be mental....in that section

and id say we would be louder and more organized then these Manchester fans to, as id bet alot of these fans have never even been to Manchester and huge majority of fans didnt chant much besides the easy "United, United" (thats my guess anyways dont know for sure). But with our drum and the Red Patch Boys, Usec and NEE together this could be awsome with that roof over our head.:scarf:

[rocker]

And remember the deal MLSE has with the city for BMO- they make their money on concessions, most of the gate money goes to the city. MLSE stands to make WAY less money having the game at BMO (little gate, no concession money) than at the skydome (LOTS of gate, no concession money)

I am in the Skydome camp... but just to correct something... the city doesn't get most of the gate.

A percentage (less than 10% I think but can't find the PDF file now with the contract) goes to pay back the loan the city provided to complete the funding of the stadium and fund upkeep, I believe.

This is going on memory but MLSE takes a huge cut of just about every revenue stream... the only revenue source that MLSE doesn't get a huge cut on (regarding TFC) is private boxes and parking... Everything else is a pretty high percentage for MLSE. I believe at TFC games MLSE takes 93% of ticket revenue. I wish I still had the PDF contract to confirm that. In MLS games, the league takes a percentage of that. Not sure if CONCACAF takes a cut of CCL games.

Now, the cut doesn't really matter if they only get 10000 out to a freezing cold game at BMO.

[menefreghista]

Both parties are in the business of making money. Having the game at the dome makes both parties a lot more money than it does at BMO. Not to mention they have a good working relationship anyways

But that assumes attendance will be good, just because its at the Dome. Its entirely possible that attendance is only 15,000 for this game, even at the Dome.

As for your 'good working relationship' point, are you aware of the Gol TV in HD situation?

[Oldtimer]

I am in the Skydome camp... but just to correct something... the city doesn't get most of the gate.

A percentage (less than 10% I think but can't find the PDF file now with the contract) goes to pay back the loan the city provided to complete the funding of the stadium and fund upkeep, I believe.

This is going on memory but MLSE takes a huge cut of just about every revenue stream... the only revenue source that MLSE doesn't get a huge cut on (regarding TFC) is private boxes and parking... Everything else is a pretty high percentage for MLSE. I believe at TFC games MLSE takes 93% of ticket revenue. I wish I still had the PDF contract to confirm that. In MLS games, the league takes a percentage of that. Not sure if CONCACAF takes a cut of CCL games.

Now, the cut doesn't really matter if they only get 10000 out to a freezing cold game at BMO.

Don't forget that MLS gets a 1/3 cut of gate receipts.

[Oldtimer]

But that assumes attendance will be good, just because its at the Dome. Its entirely possible that attendance is only 15,000 for this game, even at the Dome.

As for your 'good working relationship' point, are you aware of the Gol TV in HD situation?

attendance will only be good if they paper the house like Montreal did. it would be worth it, see how much buzz it created in Montreal.

[BeachTory]

Waggy said " hear you. Assuming ownership of MLSE doesn't change as soon as the NBA lockout ends anyways (I'd assume it does actually). ...."

Rogers has been rumoured for some time to be the buyer of the mlse teams, including TFC but not the real estate. The nba lockout has delayed it but we will likely have a rogers owner by the time the game is played so get used to it. Rogers can make money from the 'content' better than the pension and can potentially comingle the Jays losses with the Leafs profits to lower or avoid tax. This is a logical and profitable trade.

By the way, if you are Teachers et al, and you keep the building you are taking alot of risk that very soon another nhl team moves into the GTA and creates a competitive landscape for concerts and other events that right now the ACC dominates. So how do you mitigate the risk of a new building in town?
You lock up the most obvious site in town, Downsview, with a bunch of soccer pitches Ns a very long term lease. This plan has been in place for some time guys.[/QUOTE]

[Detroit_TFC]

Attendance could be respectable for the venue (IMO anything over 30K would be) but this would require a few things to happen 1) below "market" pricing 2) aggressive marketing so that casuals can find out the game is even happening 3) direct and persistent sales contacts to youth soccer clubs, etc or any other groups that can move blocks of low cost tickets.

In other words, this thing won't build itself. So the question is will MLSE put forward the effort and up front spending to make it into a successful event? The benefit to them would be to refresh the brand in the public, prime single ticket sales for the 2012 season and to sell a lot of merch.

I'm not optimistic they will want to do all the things necessary to make it a successful event.

[Waggy]

I am in the Skydome camp... but just to correct something... the city doesn't get most of the gate.

A percentage (less than 10% I think but can't find the PDF file now with the contract) goes to pay back the loan the city provided to complete the funding of the stadium and fund upkeep, I believe.

This is going on memory but MLSE takes a huge cut of just about every revenue stream... the only revenue source that MLSE doesn't get a huge cut on (regarding TFC) is private boxes and parking... Everything else is a pretty high percentage for MLSE. I believe at TFC games MLSE takes 93% of ticket revenue. I wish I still had the PDF contract to confirm that. In MLS games, the league takes a percentage of that. Not sure if CONCACAF takes a cut of CCL games.

Now, the cut doesn't really matter if they only get 10000 out to a freezing cold game at BMO.

Oh ok, my bad. I thought they got the concessions but only kept like 10% of the gate. Nvm

[ryan]

My hopes...

-MLSE should setup a march for game day. Sell discounted tickets (one free beer coupons?) at the start of the march to encourage participation....people will get involved for a beer.
-Get some large red banners to hang off Skydome in the week leading up to generate awareness.
-Maybe get some supporters in an audio booth to record some songs to blast over loudspeakers on matchday.
-Look at partitioning off the entrance area of Skydome into a "tailgate" type environment (recent news suggest laws may permit this by then).
-Fill the inside of Skydome with as much red as possible, drape banners/sheets/flags everywhere. We have a 66% chance of facing a Mexican side...they will have local support...we need to annihilate their support.
-They should put lyrics to the main chants we use on the video board to help educate the casuals and get them singing...people will be much more inclined to join our voices if they have words to follow along.
-Bring in real grass for the match? I'm not really sure which is best...but whatever the preferred by the players option is...do it.
-Permit us to put on a massive tifo display, I know we could really do something special in that kind of setup with the ability to use the deck above....perhaps permit us entry early to have a design meeting to make sure we're good. I would like every club in north america to envy what we do on this day, let's reassert ourselves as a true massive supporter city.
-We're clearly not going to be allowed flares, but some red fireworks would be wicked for match start/end and goals.



Of course it's ML fucking SE so they'll just sit on their arses and count whatever profits they make off selling $300 tickets and $40 beers......but a man can dream!

[Waggy]

But that assumes attendance will be good, just because its at the Dome. Its entirely possible that attendance is only 15,000 for this game, even at the Dome.

As for your 'good working relationship' point, are you aware of the Gol TV in HD situation?

Attendance will be good, because it will be cheaper than a normal tfc game (almost certainly), it will be a quarter final playoff game, and it's a season opener. If they bungle the hell out of the marketing of the game I can't see how less than 25k show up. And I don't think they'd bungle the hell out of that.

But no, I don't know the gol tv in HD situation. Whats the story? I dunno about their tv relationship, but they work together pretty well for the Bills in TO series, and when they need to lobby the gov't for something.

[dawkins]

Didnt we play a march game this past year?

[DichioTFC]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/rogers-centre-wide.jpg

This would be awesome... 50,000 cheering for TFC.

[menefreghista]

Attendance will be good, because it will be cheaper than a normal tfc game (almost certainly), it will be a quarter final playoff game, and it's a season opener. If they bungle the hell out of the marketing of the game I can't see how less than 25k show up. And I don't think they'd bungle the hell out of that.

But no, I don't know the gol tv in HD situation. Whats the story? I dunno about their tv relationship, but they work together pretty well for the Bills in TO series, and when they need to lobby the gov't for something.

MLSE and Rogers are not partners in the Bills in Toronto games, as far as I can tell.

As for Gol TV, Rogers continually refuses to carry the HD version of the channel on its cable service. I wouldn't really call that a great 'working' relationship.

I'm not sure just making the games cheaper will put bums in the seats. TFC FO made the CCL group stage cheaper too and that didn't help much either. They need to win back the fans and create a buzz around the team again. I'm not sure they people in charge are capable of that.

[ManUtd4ever]

http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/sp/reuters/20100717/07/1849581435-17072010072518.jpg

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/rogers-centre-wide.jpg

This would be awesome... 50,000 cheering for TFC.


Gona be interesting to see....MLSE will have to come up with something clever to get 50 000 out....

People will say montreal did it..why cant we??

Montreal support the local scene like none other...if there is a special event that involves the local team or person....hockey/boxing/tennis/ ect..ect.and most times the supporter dont even follow the sport they attend.they will jam the place on fact that its MONTREAL and let support it..

In toronto i know we can get 30 000 for the other 20 000.....we will need those lets support toronto cause its toronto!

hope it can get done in toronto...

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

does anyone know when the DRAW for the quarter-finals is???

[Auzzy]

when is the DRAW??


I've heard that the draw for the quarter-final matches will be in November. Last year the results were released on Nov. 1st.


does anyone know when the DRAW for the quarter-finals is???

As mentioned already. It's the only info I could find on the web so far.

[nfitz]

Didnt we play a march game this past year?Yes, March 26th. Anselmi says $100,000 of damage to stadium because of cold snap. Champions League game is almost 3 weeks earlier than this!

[Alonso]

Attendance will be good, because it will be cheaper than a normal tfc game (almost certainly), it will be a quarter final playoff game, and it's a season opener. If they bungle the hell out of the marketing of the game I can't see how less than 25k show up. And I don't think they'd bungle the hell out of that.

But no, I don't know the gol tv in HD situation. Whats the story? I dunno about their tv relationship, but they work together pretty well for the Bills in TO series, and when they need to lobby the gov't for something.

I agree with this completely, given your caveats, there is no way less then 25,000 show up.

My guess is that it would be more like 35,000. And with good pricing and media marketing, 50,000 is not unlikely imo.

[nfitz]

And with good pricing and media marketing, 50,000 is not unlikely imo.50,000? Good grief a city like Montreal got only 55,000 with cheap seats left unsold. And you'd think that we'd pull off 50,000?

Without season ticket sales, I'd think we'd be luck to pull off 15,000 to 20,000.

[PopePouri]

50,000? Good grief a city like Montreal got only 55,000 with cheap seats left unsold. And you'd think that we'd pull off 50,000?

Without season ticket sales, I'd think we'd be luck to pull off 15,000 to 20,000.

It really depends on how MLSE handles this. They could see this as a cash grab and jack up the prices. It also depends who we play. If we get LA, for sure it will be sold out.

[nfitz]

It really depends on how MLSE handles this. They could see this as a cash grab and jack up the prices.I doubt they'd jack up the prices beyond what they charged for the last Champions League game, which was below regular prices. Big question is will they discount to get a crowd ... not that I think that will do much in this market.


It also depends who we play. If we get LA, for sure it will be sold out.Yes, that might change the equation. Surely they'd give LA to Seattle though, and stick us with a Mexican team.

[Waggy]

MLSE and Rogers are not partners in the Bills in Toronto games, as far as I can tell.

As for Gol TV, Rogers continually refuses to carry the HD version of the channel on its cable service. I wouldn't really call that a great 'working' relationship.

I'm not sure just making the games cheaper will put bums in the seats. TFC FO made the CCL group stage cheaper too and that didn't help much either. They need to win back the fans and create a buzz around the team again. I'm not sure they people in charge are capable of that.

It's a joint venture:

"The games would be played at the downtown Rogers Centre, a domed stadium with a retractable roof and home of the Toronto Blue Jays.

Wilson stressed the team's decision to expand its market to Toronto was one out of necessity and considered a chance for the small-market franchise to generate much-needed additional revenue.
"We've overturned all the rocks in western New York," Wilson said. "We've got to do something so we looked this way to the north and we came up with some great partners."

Those partners are Blue Jays owner Ted Rogers and Larry Tanenbaum, chairman of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Raptors."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bills/2008-02-06-toronto_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Also in the bills toronto series wiki

[Blizzard]

Gona be interesting to see....MLSE will have to come up with something clever to get 50 000 out....

People will say montreal did it..why cant we??

Montreal support the local scene like none other...if there is a special event that involves the local team or person....hockey/boxing/tennis/ ect..ect.and most times the supporter dont even follow the sport they attend.they will jam the place on fact that its MONTREAL and let support it..

In toronto i know we can get 30 000 for the other 20 000.....we will need those lets support toronto cause its toronto!

hope it can get done in toronto...

http://anthonyprovenzano.com/images/5.%20Soccer%20Extravaganza/Game%20Pano%202.jpg

[LittleOzzy]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2011/10/snow-at-dsg.jpg

Colorado today where they will play the Crew tomorrow.

[james]

Gona be interesting to see....MLSE will have to come up with something clever to get 50 000 out....

People will say montreal did it..why cant we??

Montreal support the local scene like none other...if there is a special event that involves the local team or person....hockey/boxing/tennis/ ect..ect.and most times the supporter dont even follow the sport they attend.they will jam the place on fact that its MONTREAL and let support it..

In toronto i know we can get 30 000 for the other 20 000.....we will need those lets support toronto cause its toronto!

hope it can get done in toronto...

We Toronto fill stadiums for UFC/Boxing/tennis just as well as montreal does (apparenlty in southern Ontario UFC has the highest percent of viewrs per capita then anywhere else in the world, thats why they tryed for years to fight the Ontario laws against UFC to have a fight in Toronto). Montreal lost there Expos because they had the lowest attendence in the league. While the montreal canadians believe it or not were getting averages of about 500-1,000 unsold tickets a game for about the first 8 years at there bell Center, including 1 year averaging a low 18,900 fans a game in there 21,273 stadium, tho still getting high attendence numbers they werent averaging sellouts for years. As for the Montreal CFL team, they use to get bad attendence at the Big O Dome, im pretty sure was worse then the Argos and Ti-Cats, they then moved to the smaller McGill 20,000 capacity outdoor stadium (has been renovated since)and then they started selling tickets as it was more intimate it bacme a hot ticket in town.

[Yohan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2011/10/snow-at-dsg.jpg

Colorado today where they will play the Crew tomorrow.
oh dear. 500 people for that game then

[denime]

It really depends on how MLSE handles this. They could see this as a cash grab and jack up the prices. It also depends who we play. If we get LA, for sure it will be sold out.


I doubt they'd jack up the prices beyond what they charged for the last Champions League game, which was below regular prices. Big question is will they discount to get a crowd ... not that I think that will do much in this market.

Yes, that might change the equation. Surely they'd give LA to Seattle though, and stick us with a Mexican team.


We are getting Mexican teams,because all Mexican teams won their groups and will be in the 1st pot.

[Yohan]

We are getting Mexican teams,because all Mexican teams won their groups and will be in the 1st pot.
pretty sure LA won their group on tiebreakers

[menefreghista]

It's a joint venture:

"The games would be played at the downtown Rogers Centre, a domed stadium with a retractable roof and home of the Toronto Blue Jays.

Wilson stressed the team's decision to expand its market to Toronto was one out of necessity and considered a chance for the small-market franchise to generate much-needed additional revenue.
"We've overturned all the rocks in western New York," Wilson said. "We've got to do something so we looked this way to the north and we came up with some great partners."

Those partners are Blue Jays owner Ted Rogers and Larry Tanenbaum, chairman of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Toronto Maple Leafs and Toronto Raptors."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bills/2008-02-06-toronto_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Also in the bills toronto series wiki


Wrong. That's Larry Tannenbaum acting on his own, not MLSE. MLSE is not involved in the Bills in Toronto series.


We are getting Mexican teams,because all Mexican teams won their groups and will be in the 1st pot.

TFC is getting one of LA, Santos Laguna or Monterrey.

We can't draw Pumas as we were in the same group as them.

[RedRum]

There seems to be some confusion about the group A winner. Concacaf website appears to show Morelia 1st with LA 2nd and Alajuelense 3rd - all on 12 points. I dearly hope LA is in fact 1st as that is the only team I can see us having a realistic shot with. Assuming we get our CB problem straightened away I could see us beating them as they will be in the same predicament as us (not in top form and 1st meaningful game of the season).

Quick math regarding when we can next expect to get this far: Montreal in MLS next year, and Vancouver will improve. The year after and each subsequent year it will get harder. So lets say 1/3 to win the NCC. Home and away playoff to get to the group stage so that's 1/2. 2 of 4 teams advance from the group so that is 1/2. Equation to get to the quarters becomes 1 in (3x2x2). That's 12. 12 fucking years on average we could be looking at to get to where we are now. Throw in some variables for the sake of not wanting to be be seen as too conservative so lets make it 9 or 10. That's double the amount of time we have been watching this team in it's existence. Double. To get to the quarters.

Against any Mexican team - at the height of the clausura and in the prime of their game. If I'm sports book manager at the Stardust in Vegas I put a skydome held TFC game at 1.5-2 goal underdogs on the home leg. In Mexico 2.5-3 easy. If the game is outside, with the way we have played as of late and with proper training acclimation to the elements I could see us winning by 1 or 2. To play the game in climate controlled and comfortable skydome is the dumbest idea since... well I cant even draw a comparison - that's how dumb it is.

Make BMO ready, no excuses just do it. If it cant, play it at an empty Lamport FFS. 10 years to get this far again. Semis would be 20. March 6-8 means it is for sure a weekday game. Average temperature at 8:00 pm is probably -6 or colder. Perfect. Hope for this on top of that:


http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2011/10/snow-at-dsg.jpg


They could make every skydome ticket $5 and you would still never see this:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/rogers-centre-wide.jpg

The psychological damage done to the fan base by an incompetent FO is simply at an epic proportion. They should start handing out Xanax at the gates pre-game instead of toques, David Beckham MLS schedules, or Banana Boat sunscreen.


It's MLSE. No way in hell they do anything thinking medium or long term to take a short term loss. They are a corporation. Make the money NOW and be damned with everything else. Whether they tie them into renewals or make every ticket $20 we won’t see more than 24k and even that will be including the 6k of Mexicans/Central Americans out for a fun day getting back to their roots on the cheap – and most probably at our expense.

Cant wait for this thread to be bumped March 7-9 and laugh at all the 50k delusions of grandeur folk - or even better yet having them laugh at me when we win 3-0 in front of 45k at the dome :D.

[james]

There seems to be some confusion about the group A winner. Concacaf website appears to show Morelia 1st with LA 2nd and Alajuelense 3rd - all on 12 points. I dearly hope LA is in fact 1st as that is the only team I can see us having a realistic shot with. Assuming we get our CB problem straightened away I could see us beating them as they will be in the same predicament as us (not in top form and 1st meaningful game of the season).

Quick math regarding when we can next expect to get this far: Montreal in MLS next year, and Vancouver will improve. The year after and each subsequent year it will get harder. So lets say 1/3 to win the NCC. Home and away playoff to get to the group stage so that's 1/2. 2 of 4 teams advance from the group so that is 1/2. Equation to get to the quarters becomes 1 in (3x2x2). That's 12. 12 fucking years on average we could be looking at to get to where we are now. Throw in some variables for the sake of not wanting to be be seen as too conservative so lets make it 9 or 10. That's double the amount of time we have been watching this team in it's existence. Double. To get to the quarters.

Against any Mexican team - at the height of the clausura and in the prime of their game. If I'm sports book manager at the Stardust in Vegas I put a skydome held TFC game at 1.5-2 goal underdogs on the home leg. In Mexico 2.5-3 easy. If the game is outside, with the way we have played as of late and with proper training acclimation to the elements I could see us winning by 1 or 2. To play the game in climate controlled and comfortable skydome is the dumbest idea since... well I cant even draw a comparison - that's how dumb it is.

Make BMO ready, no excuses just do it. If it cant, play it at an empty Lamport FFS. 10 years to get this far again. Semis would be 20. March 6-8 means it is for sure a weekday game. Average temperature at 8:00 pm is probably -6 or colder. Perfect. Hope for this on top of that:


http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/imagecache/620x350/image_nodes/2011/10/snow-at-dsg.jpg


They could make every skydome ticket $5 and you would still never see this:

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/rogers-centre-wide.jpg

The psychological damage done to the fan base by an incompetent FO is simply at an epic proportion. They should start handing out Xanax at the gates pre-game instead of toques, David Beckham MLS schedules, or Banana Boat sunscreen.


It's MLSE. No way in hell they do anything thinking medium or long term to take a short term loss. They are a corporation. Make the money NOW and be damned with everything else. Whether they tie them into renewals or make every ticket $20 we won’t see more than 24k and even that will be including the 6k of Mexicans/Central Americans out for a fun day getting back to their roots on the cheap – and most probably at our expense.

Cant wait for this thread to be bumped March 7-9 and laugh at all the 50k delusions of grandeur folk - or even better yet having them laugh at me when we win 3-0 in front of 45k at the dome :D.

ahhhh, but if MLS continues to inrpove its on field quality and better players, in 10 years MLS teams might actually have a high percent chance of finnishing in the top 2 positions in there group stages, and that would just throw all your math off!:D

[Brocko]

ahhhh, but if MLS continues to inrpove its on field quality and better players, in 10 years MLS teams might actually have a high percent chance of finnishing in the top 2 positions in there group stages, and that would just throw all your math off!:D
Lest we forget that Vancouver and Montreal will now have MLS Clubs every year...so we need to get past them in the NCC to get to a possible Group Stage...pending Qualy Match. Every year will just get harder and harder