Updated: Rogers, Bell buy majority stake in MLSE

[Whoop]

The Raptors and the Jays would stand to benefit the most as the Raptors can go over the cap if they want, there is no cap in baseball.

The Leafs operate under a cap system - and it's not like there is a DP system in place in the NHL - so they can't do much, much more. They're already close to the cap as it is.

And it's not like they're unhappy with a cap system. They know their expense limit and still roll in the money.

And same with TFC though they can spend the money on DPs.

Ultimately in order to win you have to good management. That's been the issue.

[Shakes McQueen]

I was listening to the presser on radio. Nobody talked anything about winning or championships until 40 minutes into it. And even then it was when someone specifically asked for a comment on it.
Even then the comment wasn't abut Stanley Cup or MLS Cup, just a generic comment on winning.

We'll see in 6 months time if they change their visions/values page and mission statement. Want to take bets on it?

I don't assume a lot at all. As per the above, it looks like I was bang on.

- Scott

[boban]

I don't assume a lot at all. As per the above, it looks like I was bang on.

- Scott
You are bang on because I reacted to facts?! hmmmmmmmmmmm

Must be nice living with rose coloured glasses in your world.

[Pookie]

Rogers has owned (or had controlling interest in) the Jays for well over 11 years. They have a sub .500 record over that time frame and finished an average of close to 17 games behind the division winner.

If this is about building Championship teams, I'd say we have the best lip service in North America.

[Shakes McQueen]

You are bang on because I reacted to facts?!

No - I was bang on in my assumption of how you would interpret the facts.

I also knew you'd quickly retreat into your usual "kool aid drinker" or "rose coloured glasses" insults.

- Scott

[denime]

I don't assume a lot at all. As per the above, it looks like I was bang on.

- Scott


You are bang on because I reacted to facts?! hmmmmmmmmmmm

Must be nice living with rose coloured glasses in your world.

Guys,let's keep the very good discussion going without getting personal,no need for that.

Thanks!

[billyfly]

Who scoffed? It's not like BMO is a 50k stadium and they could still do it at the Dome with the roof closed.

There was talk of getting some more temporary seating at BMO, which could still happen though logistically I don't know how.

Either way, I won't be going to an outdoor game so I don't really care.

People said it won't be done unless you could seat 50,000 etc.

They believed what was the point at only 20,000 plus.

[ManUtd4ever]

Rogers has owned (or had controlling interest in) the Jays for well over 11 years. They have a sub .500 record over that time frame and finished an average of close to 17 games behind the division winner.

If this is about building Championship teams, I'd say we have the best lip service in North America.

It's already been mentioned in this thread, but I'll reiterate that the competitive landscape in MLB (especially in the AL East) is not analagous to that of the NHL, NBA, or MLS. Therefore, using the Jays as an example for the sake of comparison isn't valid.

[Shakes McQueen]

Guys,let's keep the very good discussion going without getting personal,no need for that.

Thanks!

I'm not being personal - I'm not even insulting him.

But yes, I fully intend on dropping the line of conversation.

- Scott

[Waggy]

You are bang on because I reacted to facts?! hmmmmmmmmmmm

Must be nice living with rose coloured glasses in your world.

Boban, here's the thing. Bell and Rogers are media giants. They didn't buy the Leafs/Raps/TFC to make money off tickets, or merchendise or whatever. They bought for the media rights. The broadcasting. That's where they intend to make their money. And not just in the Toronto market, but nationally. They want to compete with YES. MLSE was going down that road anyways, because it's the logical next step in sports franchise evolution. The thing with creating a broadcasting giant out of sports franchises are, you need people to watch. And yes, people will watch the Leafs no matter what. But if they want to improve on the Raps and TFCs 150k per game TV viewership, there's really only 1 way to. To field competitive teams. Look at the Jays. Why are they so popular nationally now, especially amongst people in their 20s and 30s? Because when those people were growing up, the Jays were winning and competitive. It's STRONGLY in their interests to have good teams, and it's absolutely catastrophic for their business plans if the teams are bad. The worse the team is, the worse business does. So while they might not have said anything about championships for 40 minutes, you better believe they're going to be TERRIFIED of losing. And I'd rather have an owner who fears losing than one who dreams about winning. Fear is a way better motivator than hope.


edit: One last time and someone else is going to have to pick up the torch on this because I'm getting so frustrated explaining this and it seems like no-one is listening but
THE SKYDOME CANNOT HOST THE OUTDOOR GAME BECAUSE IT BOTH CANNOT OPEN THE ROOF IN THE WINTER AND CAN'T HAVE AN ICE RINK IN THERE. THERE IS NO DRAINAGE SYSTEM. THERE IS NO WHERE FOR THE ICE TO GO WHEN IT'S MELTED. THERE'S NO WATER SYSTEM TO BRING IN ENOUGH WATER TO CREATE A RINK. BRIAN BURKE IS ON RECORD MULTIPLE TIMES EXPLAINING THIS, SAYING HOW THEY WISH IT COULD HAPPEN BUT IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ENOUGH WITH THE 'TFC IS MOVING TO SKYDOME!' AND 'THEY WON'T UPGRADE BMO BECAUSE THE OUTDOOR GAME WON'T BE THERE' FEARMONGERING!

[ensco]

I am pretty tired of public statements about "desire to win" by Mohamed or Anselmi or whomever being used as evidence of anything. Of course it's in Bogers interest to have winning teams. Of course it was in Teachers interest to have winning teams. Of course Anselmi wants to win.

So what?

What's important is having the ability to attract, manage and retain talent, and having the demonstrated ability to run winning sports teams. Show me evidence of that, I'll be impressed.

[Shakes McQueen]

I am pretty tired of public statements about "desire to win" by Mohamed or Anselmi or whomever being used as evidence of anything. Of course it's in Bogers interest to have winning teams. Of course it was in Teachers interest to have winning teams. Of course Anselmi wants to win.

So what?

What's important is having the ability to attract, manage and retain talent, and having the demonstrated ability to run winning sports teams. Show me evidence of that, I'll be impressed.

To Nadir Mohammed's credit, he does appear to be building such an entity in the Toronto Blue Jays - at least so far.

Time will tell with these new acquisitions.

- Scott

[boban]

No - I was bang on in my assumption of how you would interpret the facts.

I also knew you'd quickly retreat into your usual "kool aid drinker" or "rose coloured glasses" insults.

- Scott
get it. It's ok for you to hurl insults, but can't take them yourself .. ookkaaaaayyy.

[boban]

No - I was bang on in my assumption of how you would interpret the facts.
What interpretation of the facts. They spoke nothing of winning or championships until 40 minutes in.!! How else do you interpret it?
Cope was on BNN last night and scoffed at any inclination of pleasing fans.
This is not me speaking or not speaking.
When I heard about the news I was taking a back seat approach to what this may hold. Only after listening to the players at hand (not some company mouthpiece or reporters take) did I come to my conclusion. Did I always say a corporate entity would mean the same thing as the OTPP being owners - yes!. But I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However, after hearing words from the proverbial horses mouth, that is no longer the case.

The only upside I do see, and I am assuming a lot here, is that Leaf games remain on TSN and Sportsnet and for TFC move away from GolTV to Sportsnet and TSN and not to some PPV channel that was talked about before these guys bought in. But then again Sportsnet World is essentially a PPV channel so who knows.
I know for me, if broadcasts move to Sportsnetworld, Sportsnet 1, TSN2, or some TSN MLSE specialty channel (ala Winnipeg Jets), then fuck 'em I move on and watch other teams.

[boban]

It's already been mentioned in this thread, but I'll reiterate that the competitive landscape in MLB (especially in the AL East) is not analagous to that of the NHL, NBA, or MLS. Therefore, using the Jays as an example for the sake of comparison isn't valid.
Yet Tampa Bay made it to the finals once and playoffs 4 times in the past 5 years.

[Shakes McQueen]

get it. It's ok for you to hurl insults, but can't take them yourself .. ookkaaaaayyy.

I hurled no insults at you, unless saying I've read enough boban posts to understand your intended tone (and being right) is insulting?

At any rate, back on topic.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

Yet Tampa Bay made it to the finals once and playoffs 4 times in the past 5 years.

After years of futility, and subsequently going through roughly the same process the Jays are going through right now.

- Scott

[boban]

Boban, here's the thing. Bell and Rogers are media giants. They didn't buy the Leafs/Raps/TFC to make money off tickets, or merchendise or whatever. They bought for the media rights. The broadcasting. That's where they intend to make their money. And not just in the Toronto market, but nationally. They want to compete with YES. MLSE was going down that road anyways, because it's the logical next step in sports franchise evolution. The thing with creating a broadcasting giant out of sports franchises are, you need people to watch. And yes, people will watch the Leafs no matter what. But if they want to improve on the Raps and TFCs 150k per game TV viewership, there's really only 1 way to. To field competitive teams. Look at the Jays. Why are they so popular nationally now, especially amongst people in their 20s and 30s? Because when those people were growing up, the Jays were winning and competitive. It's STRONGLY in their interests to have good teams, and it's absolutely catastrophic for their business plans if the teams are bad. The worse the team is, the worse business does. So while they might not have said anything about championships for 40 minutes, you better believe they're going to be TERRIFIED of losing. And I'd rather have an owner who fears losing than one who dreams about winning. Fear is a way better motivator than hope.
I get all that on why they bought it. TFC and Raptor viewership is not only the dismall on field performance, its the team can't be found on regular TV channels, definitely not on a regular basis. Raptors where shit 6,7,8 years ago. i still watched a good chunk, once they went to Raptors TV and then TSN2 I don't think I have watched more than 10 games in the past 4 seasons. And I'm not the only one. And TFC was on TSN last year. They regulated the team to TSN2 FFS!! Doesn't install too much hope for viewership for me.

[Kaz]

The Raptors and the Jays would stand to benefit the most as the Raptors can go over the cap if they want, there is no cap in baseball.

The Leafs operate under a cap system - and it's not like there is a DP system in place in the NHL - so they can't do much, much more. They're already close to the cap as it is.

And it's not like they're unhappy with a cap system. They know their expense limit and still roll in the money.

And same with TFC though they can spend the money on DPs.

Ultimately in order to win you have to good management. That's been the issue.

NHL cap is 56 million.
MLS cap is 2.8 million

how much do you think we re spending on DPs? even if we paid 3 DPs 2.5 million a year it would still fall under 10 million in player salary.

[KGH]

edit: One last time and someone else is going to have to pick up the torch on this because I'm getting so frustrated explaining this and it seems like no-one is listening but
THE SKYDOME CANNOT HOST THE OUTDOOR GAME BECAUSE IT BOTH CANNOT OPEN THE ROOF IN THE WINTER AND CAN'T HAVE AN ICE RINK IN THERE. THERE IS NO DRAINAGE SYSTEM. THERE IS NO WHERE FOR THE ICE TO GO WHEN IT'S MELTED. THERE'S NO WATER SYSTEM TO BRING IN ENOUGH WATER TO CREATE A RINK. BRIAN BURKE IS ON RECORD MULTIPLE TIMES EXPLAINING THIS, SAYING HOW THEY WISH IT COULD HAPPEN BUT IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ENOUGH WITH THE 'TFC IS MOVING TO SKYDOME!' AND 'THEY WON'T UPGRADE BMO BECAUSE THE OUTDOOR GAME WON'T BE THERE' FEARMONGERING!

Ummmmm...so I guess the Disney on ice being held at Rogers center isn't actually on ice???

Know your facts before you lead with your chin

http://www.rogerscentre.com/fun/article.jsp?content=20110705_165154_9092
http://www.rogerscentre.com/seatmaps/2012_DOI.pdf

[Pookie]

It's already been mentioned in this thread, but I'll reiterate that the competitive landscape in MLB (especially in the AL East) is not analagous to that of the NHL, NBA, or MLS. Therefore, using the Jays as an example for the sake of comparison isn't valid.

I accept that as I was one that highlighted the salary differences.

At the same time, a comparison is worthy.

In 2000, when Ted Rogers took controlling interest in the Jays (80%), he offered that "the city and the country love sports and we love sports and that's why we're here."

Paul Godfrey, who was named President and CEO, also offered "Ted Rogers is a winner and I don't think this is going to be any different."

When asked about being able to compete with the payrolls, which at the time of purchase, the Jays were about $60M below the Yankees, Rogers offered this quote for the fans, "We didn't buy the team to skimp on replacing the light bulbs."

The CBC wrote an interesting piece on it which has a number of parallels for us now:

"With no argument from Rogers or its president and CEO, the media has done its best to paint the communications giant as a corporate white knight, one which is ready to pour heaps of money into the Blue Jays budget with the simple interest of making the team a winner.

The truth is that Rogers is just as interested in its overall bottom line as Interbrew. It just happens that Rogers is in a position where a winning baseball team should improve its overall bottom line.

Rogers Communications emcompasses the largest cable television system in Canada as well as the country's biggest mobile phone company, Rogers AT&T wireless.

Rogers has made building a vertically-integrated sports-media empire one of its primary goals, and at the press conference Ted Rogers offered a glimpse of his grand ambition. Holding up a cellular phone, Rogers promised that in a few years, Blue Jays fans will be able to watch the team on the phone's view screen."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/09/01/tedsr000901.html

The long and short of it is that Rogers bought into the Jays and talked of winning. It knew the competitive landscape with respect to salaries and no cost controls and still offered those public tidbits.

Today, while the Yankees' payroll has doubled since 2001, the Jays' payroll has actually dropped by about $14M and their record is less than exciting.

I can however watch Jays' highlights on my phone, provided of course I'm not near my 52" TV.

[boban]

Ummmmm...so I guess the Disney on ice being held at Rogers center isn't actually on ice???

Know your facts before you lead with your chin

http://www.rogerscentre.com/fun/article.jsp?content=20110705_165154_9092
http://www.rogerscentre.com/seatmaps/2012_DOI.pdf
Bu that is under a closed roof.
The roof can't be opened in the winter.

[Whoop]

Different perspective.

http://www.thestar.com/article/1099845--roseman-this-duo-has-too-much-power-already

[Waggy]

Famous last words, but this'll be the last post on this (it'll also settle another debate)

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1094873--with-marlies-in-ahl-outdoor-classic-leafs-push-for-game-at-bmo-field

You can’t use the Rogers Centre because the dome cannot be open in the winter,” Burke said


“We’re celebrating our Centennial in 2017 and we’ve asked the league for us to host all of its major events between now and then and that includes the entry level (junior) draft, the all-star game and an outdoor game.”




And disney on ice uses somethign like this http://www.customicerinks.com/rental.asp
which is not suitable for hockey. they'd actually have to flood the field level of the dome for a hockey rink.

[ensco]

Different perspective.

http://www.thestar.com/article/1099845--roseman-this-duo-has-too-much-power-already

She is bang on. There is a pretty obvious problem here.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1099678

Really, it's incredible. Bell and Rogers together are 100% of the television distribution market, 90% of the internet service market, and 65% of the mobile data market. They probably shouldn't be allowed to buy content at all, as doing so has to result in higher prices for consumers, and severely limits, or eliminates, the possibility of new entrants in these markets.

[Shakes McQueen]

She is bang on. There is a pretty obvious problem here.
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1099678

Really, it's incredible. Bell and Rogers together are 100% of the television distribution market, 90% of the internet service market, and 65% of the mobile data market. They probably shouldn't be allowed to buy content at all, as doing so has to result in higher prices for consumers, and severely limits, or eliminates, the possibility of new entrants in these markets.

Can't really blame Rogers or Bell for this though - they are looking out for themselves. Blame the regulatory agencies like the CRTC that let them do it.

- Scott

[ensco]

Can't really blame Rogers or Bell for this though - they are looking out for themselves. Blame the regulatory agencies like the CRTC that let them do it.

- Scott

No I blame them. But sure, I blame the regulators too. It's a societal problem around regulatory capture. There are moral failings everywhere you look in our system.

[boban]

No I blame them. But sure, I blame the regulators too. It's a societal problem around regulatory capture. There are moral failings everywhere you look in our system.
Exactly.

[Shakes McQueen]

No I blame them. But sure, I blame the regulators too. It's a societal problem around regulatory capture. There are moral failings everywhere you look in our system.

Corporations don't have morals, which is a big part of the problem. Of course, if I go any further, this is going to become a political discussion, haha.

- Scott

[boban]

Corporations don't have morals, which is a big part of the problem. Of course, if I go any further, this is going to become a political discussion, haha.

- Scott
They also don't have morals because they public doesn't hold them to any, nor do the shareholders. The world has nothing but Gordon Geckos in it.

[Shakes McQueen]

They also don't have morals because they public doesn't hold them to any, nor do the shareholders. The world has nothing but Gordon Geckos in it.

It's institutional - shareholding is a largely faceless endeavour. Chances are your parents have retirement savings that are invested in all kinds of corporations they've never even heard of, and don't know they are invested in - many of whom are probably not ideal corporate citizens.

The public mechanism to hold corporations accountable, is regulators - like the CRTC.

And then of course, there's the old cliche about voting with your wallet. But that becomes difficult when two corporations own such a massive majority of the telecommunications market, unless you basically refuse to become part of modern society. Ensuring a fair and competitive market also falls to regulators like the CRTC - and the job they are doing is pretty clear.

As I said a few pages ago - I think it's kind of gross that two media empires own all of Toronto's sports franchises, but it ultimately falls to public infrastructure to keep this kind of stuff in line, and protect the public interest.

I'm a pretty economically liberal guy, but I also try to be realistic, and I think that if you sit and wait for corporations to make decisions that first and foremost comply with concepts of individual human morality and the greater public/consumer interest, you're going to be waiting a long time.

We can't control that in-built profit motive - that cat has long since escaped from the bag with legislative and court decisions made long before you or I were born. What we CAN control, is the regulatory agencies.

- Scott

[rocker]

I wonder what effect this deal has on the TV rights fees for MLS. MLS needs to grow its TV audience, and must be getting some revenue from the national deal signed with TSN last year.
But once that deal is over, how does MLS negotiate for Canadian TV rights deals when the two biggest networks own one of the teams in the league? On the other hand, clearly it means Vancouver and Toronto will get a great deal of attention (Bell sponsors Vancouver), so they become partners now with MLS in promoting the league in Canada... as opposed to the old team-client relationship.

[Auzzy]

Here's some talk about possible replacements for Richard Peddie, as well as some other interesting info. No idea how accurate this article and its "sources" are, but what's being suggested there isn't exactly inspiring...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/1100423--job-description-to-run-mlse-just-changed?bn=1

[ensco]

Here's some talk about possible replacements for Richard Peddie, as well as some other interesting info. No idea how accurate this article and its "sources" are, but what's being suggested there isn't exactly inspiring...

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/1100423--job-description-to-run-mlse-just-changed?bn=1

Interesting article. Unusually insightful.

The CFO? Are you kidding me? I guess anything's possible, but I'd be shocked by that. Surprised the writer didn't mention Burke (I guess Burke wasn't a source for the story!)....Burke has stature, polish, and is a neutral, ie no natural allegiance to anyone, and the Leafs have more ex-GMs in their front office than any other team in the league, so they have the bench strength if he goes upstairs.

My two cents worth is that Anselmi is now a long shot. Anselmi may not be well spoken or polished enough for this group imho. Also Tanenbaum and Peddie did not get along well, so why would Larry be a natural supporter of Anselmi or Clarke, each of whom is a "dyed in the wool" Peddie loyalist?

[boban]

Interesting article. Unusually insightful.

The CFO? Are you kidding me? I guess anything's possible, but I'd be shocked by that. Surprised the writer didn't mention Burke (I guess Burke wasn't a source for the story!)....Burke has stature, polish, and is a neutral, ie no natural allegiance to anyone, and the Leafs have more ex-GMs in their front office than any other team in the league, so they have the bench strength if he goes upstairs.

My two cents worth is that Anselmi is now a long shot. Anselmi may not be well spoken or polished enough for this group imho. Also Tanenbaum and Peddie did not get along well, so why would Larry be a natural supporter of Anselmi or Clarke, each of whom is a "dyed in the wool" Peddie loyalist?
Not really a surprise for the CFO if you think of it. I recently read an article on Nadir form Rogers. The guy play it close to the vest and is tight fisted. He is a numbers guy and conservative. Seems to me to describe a typical CFO and the person Nadir would want at the helm.

[ensco]

Not really a surprise for the CFO if you think of it. I recently read an article on Nadir form Rogers. The guy play it close to the vest and is tight fisted. He is a numbers guy and conservative. Seems to me to describe a typical CFO and the person Nadir would want at the helm.

Nadir was a CA but that was a long time ago. It's been 15+ years since he had a finance job. He ran BC Tel's mobile business through the 90s, then got hired away as CEO of Rogers Wireless (he did that for 5 years), then spent 3 years as Rogers COO, before becoming CEO. His finance background was not core to his credentials for the CEO gig. The interesting data point is the Rogers CFO, Bill Linton, who used to be CEO of Sprint Canada. Increasingly, operating jobs are important credentials for CFO jobs.

You see CFOs becoming CEOs in certain industries eg finance. Also maybe in conglomerates. BCE had a couple of CEOs in its conglomerate days who had CFO backgrounds, most notably Jean Monty, who nearly destroyed the company with his wheeling-dealing. Which is why you don't see that much!

But in a talent-based enterprise like a sports/media company? Someone could find an example somewhere I suppose, but it's highly unusual to see a CFO become CEO.

[billyfly]

How about Stan Kasten?

[Whoop]

Nadir was a CA but that was a long time ago. It's been 15+ years since he had a finance job. He ran BC Tel's mobile business through the 90s, then got hired away as CEO of Rogers Wireless (he did that for 5 years), then spent 3 years as Rogers COO, before becoming CEO. His finance background was not core to his credentials for the CEO gig. The interesting data point is the Rogers CFO, Bill Linton, who used to be CEO of Sprint Canada. Increasingly, operating jobs are important credentials for CFO jobs.

You see CFOs becoming CEOs in certain industries eg finance. Also maybe in conglomerates. BCE had a couple of CEOs in its conglomerate days who had CFO backgrounds, most notably Jean Monty, who nearly destroyed the company with his wheeling-dealing. Which is why you don't see that much!

But in a talent-based enterprise like a sports/media company? Someone could find an example somewhere I suppose, but it's highly unusual to see a CFO become CEO.

The only explain I can think of is the guys who own the Tampa Bay Rays, but that's a much smaller operation.

James Dolan, who runs MSG, is a communications guy.

From a soccer perspective, Tim Leiweke would be a good fit but he's got it good with Anschutz.

[Shakes McQueen]

How about Stan Kasten?

Kasten is heading a group (with Magic Johnson) that is looking to buy the Dodgers.

I still say Anselmi is the likely choice, unless they go with a big shot from the U.S.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Michael Grange, who has done a good job covering sports and the business side of sports, thinks that Rogers/Bell will go hard after a NFL team. There is/was speculation that they the new MLSE would go after a European soccer team but they don't like the lack of a cap.

[Redcoe15]

PAUL GODFREY!
:hide:




























I kid, of course. The last thing Toronto sports fans need is that weasel overlooking all the city's big teams.

[billyfly]

Michael Grange, who has done a good job covering sports and the business side of sports, thinks that Rogers/Bell will go hard after a NFL team. There is/was speculation that they the new MLSE would go after a European soccer team but they don't like the lack of a cap.

Link or radio? Others have said that this kills the NFL in Toronto.

I'd like to see his logic.

[ensco]

One thing that has not come out yet: Larry has an option from Bogers to go to 30% from 25%.

Tanenbaum may well now have de facto 100% control of anything unrelated to media rights here.

[Shakes McQueen]

One thing that has not come out yet: Larry has an option from Bogers to go to 30% from 25%.

Tanenbaum may well now have de facto 100% control of anything unrelated to media rights here.

If you're right, that's actually kind of a good thing. Tanenbaum is actually pretty passionate - particularly about the Raptors - and having one mind behind some ownership decisions instead of a plurality, might give the organization some clarity in it's mission.

- Scott

[ensco]

If you're right, that's actually kind of a good thing. Tanenbaum is actually pretty passionate - particularly about the Raptors - and having one mind behind some ownership decisions instead of a plurality, might give the organization some clarity in it's mission.

- Scott

I can't tell you how I know, but I'll deliver a keg of beer to your house if it turns out not to be true.

We disagree about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.

[ginkster88]

I can't tell you how I know, but I'll deliver a keg of beer to your house if it turns out not to be true.

We disagree about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.

Wait, I'm confused. Do you think having a free keg of beer is bad?

[Shakes McQueen]

I can't tell you how I know, but I'll deliver a keg of beer to your house if it turns out not to be true.

We disagree about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.

I think it's a good thing, relative to the other option of more ownership by consensus between Bell, Rogers, and Tanenbaum.

- Scott

[Red CB Toronto]

I think at the end of the day Paul Beaston will still be in the mix, he is one of the most regarded sports exeutives this city has ever had. He is beyond anyone corporate label. pinning him as a Rogers guy even though he works for them now selling him sort. He was still with the Jays when TSN owned them back in the 1990's so he does have ties to both sides.

He will also be in the mix for baseball commisioner when Bud lite retires

[billyfly]

I can't tell you how I know, but I'll deliver a keg of beer to your house if it turns out not to be true.

We disagree about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing.


Party at Scott's house in Barrie.

[mdc 77]

It is true about Larry's option.

I can't see Beeston being considered really, if he was 40 something then yes. If its going to be someone from the Rogers family Keith Pelley could be the man.

TSN never owned the Blue Jays. Labatt's owned TSN and the Blue Jays at the same time.

[Pookie]

One thing that has not come out yet: Larry has an option from Bogers to go to 30% from 25%.

Tanenbaum may well now have de facto 100% control of anything unrelated to media rights here.

Even with 25%, with both competitors in this alliance holding 37.5% shares, Tanenbaum becomes the most powerful part of this ownership group in any dispute regarding business issues.

Bell and Rogers claimed they worked well together in the past. I would contend that project based partnerships are easier to maintain them long term mutual ownership decisions over a prized asset.

Larry's moment will come.

[billyfly]

I have heard that Shaw was mounting a bid.

[Shakes McQueen]

Party at Scott's house in Barrie.

I'll bring the ice. Billy has offered to bring everything else.

So expect a pop and chips party.

- Scott

[billyfly]

Patio Lanterns.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'll also bring one of those little green coils that keep the bugs away.

- Scott

[Red CB Toronto]

It is true about Larry's option.

I can't see Beeston being considered really, if he was 40 something then yes. If its going to be someone from the Rogers family Keith Pelley could be the man.

TSN never owned the Blue Jays. Labatt's owned TSN and the Blue Jays at the same time.

TSN was listed as the owner of the Toronto Argonauts with Paul Beeston as first President and then CEO. I found that TSN ownership of the Argos a little strange, but lots can be in the buiz of sports.

[Alonso]

Waggy, you know that Virgin is Bell, right?

Wind Mobile is the only company you can turn to to get away from Rogers or Bell.

They are the only truly independent cell phone provider out there with their own infrastructure.

[Alonso]

They use Bell infrastructure, yeah. That's the most corrupt thing in Canada. I don't know why people don't really protest this. ALL telecommunications infrastructure in Canada is owned by Bell or Rogers. So any other company that wants to do business here HAS to partner with one of the two. The infrastructure (national networks of phone lines, internet cables etc) should be ran by the government to ensure some competition (and also a way to make a bit of money for the government, instead of lining Bell and Rogers pockets). That's the way it's done basically everywhere else in the world. It's a total monopoly, and it's freaking crap. The gov't is too cheap to take on the maintenance costs, as well as upgrade costs. So they let bell and rogers do whatever. Did you see the story the Wind owner wrote when he abandonded the canadian market a few months ago? It was SCATHING.

edit: heres a cbc story on the wind thing http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/11/17/f-naguib-sawiris.html


Agreed. That is why it's everyone's moral responsibility to switch to Wind Mobile asap!


EDIT: Plus the rates are WAY CHEAPER. I pay $33/month all taxes and fees included for Unlimited EVERYTHING (Data, texting, talk, caller id, canada wide calling)

[Alonso]

The other thing I've read is a suggestion that the teachers pension feel the 'sports' market has peaked in Toronto.

Translation: We (OTPP) ran the MLSE brand through the mud and all the fans are catching on and not supporting the brand any more. Time to get the hell out of dodge and leave the mess for the new owners to clean up!

[ensco]

Translation: We (OTPP) ran the MLSE brand through the mud and all the fans are catching on and not supporting the brand any more. Time to get the hell out of dodge and leave the mess for the new owners to clean up!

I think Teachers was/is nervous about what is happening to the value of the Raptors. Part of it is the broader small market team problem in the NBA. It is going to be possibly cheaper to buy scalps for the Raptors this year, than it was for TFC.

[Shakes McQueen]

Agreed. That is why it's everyone's moral responsibility to switch to Wind Mobile asap!

EDIT: Plus the rates are WAY CHEAPER. I pay $33/month all taxes and fees included for Unlimited EVERYTHING (Data, texting, talk, caller id, canada wide calling)

Eh - his argument about ARPU is pretty spot on, and there's no doubt that Rogers and Bell are highly coddled domestic providers that need to be exposed to more competition. I also agree with him that their coddling has severly stifled innovation in telecommunications here.

But his ranting about "if they are so good, why aren't they competing outside Canada?" is using pretty specious reasoning. Why don't Verizon or AT&T compete in Europe? Why don't Vodafone compete in America?

I'm interested in Wind Mobile, and I hope they have success. Unfortunately they still only have coverage in major urban centres (not Barrie, where I live - yet), and their lineup of phones still leaves something to be desired, aside from maybe the Nexus S.

Maybe if they eventually expand to cover most of populated Ontario, and extend their lineup into WP7 phones like the new Lumia 800, or even the iPhone, I will give them a look.

- Scott

[Alonso]

Eh - his argument about ARPU is pretty spot on, and there's no doubt that Rogers and Bell are highly coddled domestic providers that need to be exposed to more competition. I also agree with him that their coddling has severly stifled innovation in telecommunications here.

But his ranting about "if they are so good, why aren't they competing outside Canada?" is using pretty specious reasoning. Why don't Verizon or AT&T compete in Europe? Why don't Vodafone compete in America?

I'm interested in Wind Mobile, and I hope they have success. Unfortunately they still only have coverage in major urban centres (not Barrie, where I live - yet), and their lineup of phones still leaves something to be desired, aside from maybe the Nexus S.

Maybe if they eventually expand to cover most of populated Ontario, and extend their lineup into WP7 phones like the new Lumia 800, or even the iPhone, I will give them a look.

- Scott

Yeah I hear ya, they just opened up shop in Kitchener/Guelph/Cambridge about two months ago. Just opened in London recently, and Barrie is next from what I hear and see on their website.

You'll most likely have a chance to move over to Wind by the summer. It takes a lot of time and money to build your own infrastructure.

EDIT: Also hearing the iPhone 5 will be AWS 1700 usable (Will work on Wind and T-Mobile in the USA)

[Beach_Red]

Eh - his argument about ARPU is pretty spot on, and there's no doubt that Rogers and Bell are highly coddled domestic providers that need to be exposed to more competition. I also agree with him that their coddling has severly stifled innovation in telecommunications here.

- Scott

How mcuh competition would be enough? The same as in the retail gas business?

I think you were right when you said the one thing we can do is regulate - but we've allowed all of our regulators to become nothing but rubber stamps. A few of the articles about the purchase of MLSE even mention that the sale still has to be approved, but is there any doubt it will be?

[TFC07]

I think Teachers was/is nervous about what is happening to the value of the Raptors. Part of it is the broader small market team problem in the NBA. It is going to be possibly cheaper to buy scalps for the Raptors this year, than it was for TFC.

Sorry, but I have hard time believing this. I highly doubt teachers will base their decision to sell their shares because some short-term issues.

Teachers sold their shares simply because they believe their shares have peaked and they can't possibly make anymore money.

It's pretty straight forward why they sold their shares and why Rogers/Bell bought teachers' shares.

[TFC07]

Agreed. That is why it's everyone's moral responsibility to switch to Wind Mobile asap!


EDIT: Plus the rates are WAY CHEAPER. I pay $33/month all taxes and fees included for Unlimited EVERYTHING (Data, texting, talk, caller id, canada wide calling)

Agreed. I am with WIND right now and pay $40 for unlimited data, global texting, North American calling, voicemail, caller id etc... :)

BTW, WIND is coming to Barrie soon. They got couple of towers set up there already.

[rockxlee]

Eh - his argument about ARPU is pretty spot on, and there's no doubt that Rogers and Bell are highly coddled domestic providers that need to be exposed to more competition. I also agree with him that their coddling has severly stifled innovation in telecommunications here.

But his ranting about "if they are so good, why aren't they competing outside Canada?" is using pretty specious reasoning. Why don't Verizon or AT&T compete in Europe? Why don't Vodafone compete in America?

I'm interested in Wind Mobile, and I hope they have success. Unfortunately they still only have coverage in major urban centres (not Barrie, where I live - yet), and their lineup of phones still leaves something to be desired, aside from maybe the Nexus S.

Maybe if they eventually expand to cover most of populated Ontario, and extend their lineup into WP7 phones like the new Lumia 800, or even the iPhone, I will give them a look.

- Scott

FYI any phone that will work on T-mobile will work on the Wind networks so that adds some more phones to choose from.

[Roogsy]

Has this article been posted yet?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/plan-b-for-mlse-teachers-had-planned-a-shakeup/article2268700/

Great behind the scenes look at the sale.

[ensco]

Has this article been posted yet?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/plan-b-for-mlse-teachers-had-planned-a-shakeup/article2268700/

Great behind the scenes look at the sale.

Yes. The bad feelings between Tanenbaum and Teachers are surfacing.

So the $64,000 question is, what agreements are there about how long Bogers have guaranteed that Larry remains Chairman and on the NHL Board of Governors? Because if it's for a long time, as I suspect it is, then Larry is definitely in charge here. A cookie for whoever finds out first.

If Larry is guaranteed his position for a long time, Anselmi probably won't be the choice for CEO. Peddie was the Teachers' guy. Anselmi is Peddie's guy.

[ensco]

Sorry, but I have hard time believing this. I highly doubt teachers will base their decision to sell their shares because some short-term issues.

Teachers sold their shares simply because they believe their shares have peaked and they can't possibly make anymore money.

It's pretty straight forward why they sold their shares and why Rogers/Bell bought teachers' shares.

The statement "Teachers sold their shares simply because they believe their shares have peaked and they can't possibly make anymore money" is not how the investment world works. Investment managers don't talk this way, they don't have crystal balls.

You think the Raptors issue are "short term"? To each his own.

[mdc 77]

Everything will be fine with the Raptors. Didn't you hear what Nadir said? Apparently while nobody was paying attention during the lockout the Raptors have become an "iconic brand in sport".

Back to reality here...I'm sure the status of the Raptors did weigh on the decision to sell now but I can't imagine it was a major factor. Bottom line is teachers is looking at a $17 billion dollar shortfall with the pension fund. While they would continue to make money with MLSE they are now able to reduce that shortfall by a billion dollars.

[boban]

Everything will be fine with the Raptors. Didn't you hear what Nadir said? Apparently while nobody was paying attention during the lockout the Raptors have become an "iconic brand in sport".

Back to reality here...I'm sure the status of the Raptors did weigh on the decision to sell now but I can't imagine it was a major factor. Bottom line is teachers is looking at a $17 billion dollar shortfall with the pension fund. While they would continue to make money with MLSE they are now able to reduce that shortfall by a billion dollars.
Actually it is over $1.5B from my understanding and with some clarity from a board member here. ;)

[Roogsy]

Yeah 17 Billion sounded high. 1.5B is more believable.

[boban]

Yeah 17 Billion sounded high. 1.5B is more believable.
I'm referring to the cash OTPP got from the sale.

[boban]

Has this article been posted yet?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/plan-b-for-mlse-teachers-had-planned-a-shakeup/article2268700/

Great behind the scenes look at the sale.
After reading this article I get more confused about the exact terms of the sale. First reports had the sale costing $1.32B for 75% of MLSE with Larry buying another 5% (which ups the total value of the sale presumably). This report says $1.32B was for the whole 80%. Does that mean Larry bought the 5% from Rogers/BCE. In any event was it $1.32B for 75% or 80%?

[boban]

Yes. The bad feelings between Tanenbaum and Teachers are surfacing.

So the $64,000 question is, what agreements are there about how long Bogers have guaranteed that Larry remains Chairman and on the NHL Board of Governors? Because if it's for a long time, as I suspect it is, then Larry is definitely in charge here. A cookie for whoever finds out first.

If Larry is guaranteed his position for a long time, Anselmi probably won't be the choice for CEO. Peddie was the Teachers' guy. Anselmi is Peddie's guy.
The guy is 66 yrs old. How long does anyone think he will be there?

[Roogsy]

I've been scratching my head at the numbers for a few days now. I won't even bother. :lol:

What is obvious is that the initial asking price was definitely too high as was mentioned by many people.

[mdc 77]

No, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is facing a $17 Billion dollar shortfall.

[Roogsy]

The shortfall is not made up by this sale however...it all depends on where OTPP valued their MLSE investment in their books. If they had them at "market value" then the net impact on the shortfall is zero.

[Whoop]

$17 billion seems real, real high?

[mdc 77]

To get an idea of how the pension fund has gotten into this tough position consider that every single year the the plan pays out $1.8 billion more than it takes in. Lots of teachers around, lots of retired teachers that are living longer as well.

[ginkster88]

Yes. The bad feelings between Tanenbaum and Teachers are surfacing.

So the $64,000 question is, what agreements are there about how long Bogers have guaranteed that Larry remains Chairman and on the NHL Board of Governors? Because if it's for a long time, as I suspect it is, then Larry is definitely in charge here. A cookie for whoever finds out first.

If Larry is guaranteed his position for a long time, Anselmi probably won't be the choice for CEO. Peddie was the Teachers' guy. Anselmi is Peddie's guy.

I read in an article this morning that he gets to be around as long as he likes.

I'll try and find the link but I'm not going to promise anything.

It was in one of the Globe articles this morning.

[ensco]

After reading this article I get more confused about the exact terms of the sale. First reports had the sale costing $1.32B for 75% of MLSE with Larry buying another 5% (which ups the total value of the sale presumably). This report says $1.32B was for the whole 80%. Does that mean Larry bought the 5% from Rogers/BCE. In any event was it $1.32B for 75% or 80%?

The $2 billion + is a fiction. It serves the interests of Teachers, the leagues, and the bankers to overstate these numbers. Teachers gets $1.32 billion for their 79.5% in the "business", which has $500 million in debt on it at the time of the sale, but not until then. The $1.32 billion in proceeds would include approx $400 million in debt proceeds (ie Teachers' 79.5% share of that new $500 million debt put on as part of this transaction), therefore the residual Teachers gets, around $930 million, is for their shares in MLSE. I think the correct Enterprise Value is around $1.65 billion ($930 million for 79.5% translates to $1.17 billion for 100%, plus $500 million in new debt).

Part of the confusion arises because of the changes in debt happening simultaneously to the sale of the shares. The right way to think about this is to compare it to the housing market. This is the functional equivalent of a $500,000 house that the owners take a $200,000 mortgage out on at the last second, putting the mortgage proceeds in their pocket, then two new people partner up to buy the house and assume the mortgage. Note that unlike the housing market, this "mortgage" is non-recourse, ie the lender can't go after the new new buyers if payments aren't made, which is an important driver of these deals. So now the house "costs" only $300,000. Now imagine each new owner announcing triumphantly that the "cost" is only $150,000 each.

The reason a house price never includes any reflection for the mortgages is because mortgages are always repayable on a sale, mortgages are always recourse to the owner of the house (not the house itself only), and because it's simpler. But many business transactions are deliberately confusing, so that the seller can construct a story that overstates the proceeds, and the buyer has a story that understates cost.

Remember, there is a need for Bell/Rogers to keep the cheque size they are actually writing down. This is why Teachers/Tanenbaum are putting the $500 million in debt on their before the sale. Bogers story is that they get "control of MLSE forever for $533 million". Plus, and this is important down the line when the cries for spending on players comes, Bell/Rogers get to say the debt was there when they arrived, sorry about that, gotta worry about debt service.

The further confusion arises because, after Bell/Rogers buy Teachers share, there are further non-disclosed adjustments made where Larry goes from 20.5% to 25%, and has an option to go to 30%, while Bogers go down from 79.5% to 75%. This part is the price Larry extracted to go along. The math behind these moves is not clear yet.

[Oldtimer]

No, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is facing a $17 Billion dollar shortfall.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100406/ontario_pension_100406/

That figure is from 2009, however,

[billyfly]

BTW - Wind Mobile does not have its own infrastructure. Some but not a lot.

[Beach_Red]

BTW - Wind Mobile does not have its own infrastructure. Some but not a lot.

And Wind has already been very public about what a "tough" market Canada is and saying how they may not stay.

There's an article in the National Post today headlined: BCE to fight CRTC ruling on content sharing.

It's a sign of the future. Telus complained that Bell have exclusive rights to the NFL and NHL on mobile devices and the CRTC ruled that Bell has to make the content available to other carriers, "Canadians shouldn't be forced to subscribe to a wireless service from a specific company to access their favourite content."

It'll be interesting to see what happens. But clearly Bell is going for content exclusivity as much as it can.

[TFC07]

The statement "Teachers sold their shares simply because they believe their shares have peaked and they can't possibly make anymore money" is not how the investment world works. Investment managers don't talk this way, they don't have crystal balls.

You think the Raptors issue are "short term"? To each his own.

Yes, Raptors are short term issue. By next year they will have a high lottery pick and tons of cap space to sign quality players in next off season so they can make it to playoffs next season.

FYI, Raptors are still making money and they're worth $399 million which is around top 10 in NBA right now.

[TFC07]

BTW - Wind Mobile does not have its own infrastructure. Some but not a lot.

What are you talking about? They're putting up their own towers and using AWS 1700/2100 frequency which they bought from government.

[mdc 77]

Yes, Raptors are short term issue. By next year they will have a high lottery pick and tons of cap space to sign quality players in next off season so they can make it to playoffs next season.

FYI, Raptors are still making money and they're worth $399 million which is around top 10 in NBA right now.

The issue about being a short term problem is more a question of, can basketball be profitable long-term in this city? So far it really hasn't shown it can.
To your next point, what the Raptors have been deemed "worth" and whether they make money are two very different things. You and nor do I know if the Raptors make money because MLSE is not a publically traded company. However popular belief is that there is no way the Raptors have made money in recent years. Now that could change with an improvement on the court but there is little evidence that is changing anytime soon.

[billyfly]

What are you talking about? They're putting up their own towers and using AWS 1700/2100 frequency which they bought from government.


What are you talking about? They use Rogers fibre when they don't have line of site etc

Wireless only works with switches. It doesn't only works with towers.

I didn't say they are merely a re-seller.

[TFC07]

The issue about being a short term problem is more a question of, can basketball be profitable long-term in this city? So far it really hasn't shown it can.
To your next point, what the Raptors have been deemed "worth" and whether they make money are two very different things. You and nor do I know if the Raptors make money because MLSE is not a publically traded company. However popular belief is that there is no way the Raptors have made money in recent years. Now that could change with an improvement on the court but there is little evidence that is changing anytime soon.

15+ years in NBA is enough to prove yes Toronto can support basketball. :rolleyes:

Given Raptors are making a profit each year (unlike half of teams in NBA) I would say Raptors aren't in a bad shape what some people here like to make out to be. Not only that, but TV ratings for basketball is so much better now than it was 10 years ago. So the game is growing and now that we got Canadians playing in NBA now and the future, I except basketball will keep on growing in Toronto and rest of Canada. Also if you look at attendance, fans still show up to games unlike most losing teams and some winning teams (Like Atlanta) where they barely get 12,000 per game. Even Miami has a hard time selling out their games last season despite having Wade, James and Bosh.

Issue more has to do with Leafs peaking (profit and interest wise) its value and cashing it in now before it drops.

Raptors are just secondary here while no one really cares about TFC.

[billyfly]

Steve Simmons says that all the people he spoke to know nothing about ousting Tannebaum.

He also made a good point that the NHL would not be too cool with kicking out Larry b/c he holds many high positions at the BOG.

[Shakes McQueen]

How mcuh competition would be enough? The same as in the retail gas business?

I think you were right when you said the one thing we can do is regulate - but we've allowed all of our regulators to become nothing but rubber stamps. A few of the articles about the purchase of MLSE even mention that the sale still has to be approved, but is there any doubt it will be?

I agree with you that regulators like the CRTC have become nothing but pathetic rubber stamps - particularly for Rogers and Bell's interests.

Ideally we should have 4-5 major players in the telecommunications industry, like the United States has. Unfortunately, Rogers and Bell are firmly intertwined with ownership of our country's telecom infrastructure, which is part of the problem.

I've advocated for a while that the government should essentially say "tough shit" to them and forcefully buy the infrastructure back at a fair price so they can no longer monopolize it, but of course, that would require politicians with balls.

The CRTC also needs to let this country grow up a bit, and stop giving potential foreign competition the cold shoulder. Wind Mobile's story is a testament to what a pain in the ass it can be to break into our markets.

For an idea of how much the mollycoddling of Rogers and Bell has hamstrung the growth of telecoms in this country - check out the United States' internet and wireless options sometime. For internet, they generally get faster speeds, higher bandwidth caps, and lower prices. For cellphones, they generally get lower prices combined with less contract years. The problem isn't too much or too little regulation in our case - it's regulators that are in the pocket of two giant companies.

It's a farce.

- Scott

[Red CB Toronto]

I've been scratching my head at the numbers for a few days now. I won't even bother. :lol:

What is obvious is that the initial asking price was definitely too high as was mentioned by many people.

Since this deal was announced the numbers have never sat well with me. The Teachers revealed they got 1.32 billion for their 80% share in MLSE. It was later revealed that each Bell and Rogers paid 533 million each for a 37.5 share of the company with Larry getting a 5% boost to his position. This means when you times $533 million x 2 you get 1.066 billion for the 75% share total. I just can not believe Larry paid over 200 milion for a mere 5% to get to the 1.32 billion that has been reported.

[Redcoe15]

Steve Simmons says that all the people he spoke to know nothing about ousting Tannebaum.

He also made a good point that the NHL would not be too cool with kicking out Larry b/c he holds many high positions at the BOG.
Scumbag Steve is Tannebaum's bumboy.

[ensco]

For any reporters that read this: ask Mohamed/Cope the following:

"After the transaction is done, what will be the debt level on MLSE?"

A bunny with a good nose is telling me it'll be almost $700 million, which is 7x EBITDA, which is ... unbelievable, unsustainable, Glazer -like....

[ensco]

So Larry says how long is stays is strictly between him and God. Great.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/12/16/the-biggest-play-in-hockey/

[ag futbol]

It's a sign of the future. Telus complained that Bell have exclusive rights to the NFL and NHL on mobile devices and the CRTC ruled that Bell has to make the content available to other carriers, "Canadians shouldn't be forced to subscribe to a wireless service from a specific company to access their favourite content."

It'll be interesting to see what happens. But clearly Bell is going for content exclusivity as much as it can.
Interestingly enough Telus' CEO was on BNN today and he was talking about not going for the content play saying distribution was enough of the pie. That being said, he really seems to be bucking the trend.

[Beach_Red]

Was he saying he's okay with Telus not being able to stream NHL and NFL games to their customers?

[ag futbol]

Was he saying he's okay with Telus not being able to stream NHL and NFL games to their customers?
No, he quoted the regulations a couple of times. Said the law should protect his company and others from content being locked to one provider. Also, that it's not in anyone's interest to have their content reach a limited audience.

[mdc 77]

Great pr piece from "journalist" Mary Ormsby;

Larry Tanenbaum: His ‘footprint is everywhere in this city’ (http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/1103564--larry-tanenbaum-his-footprint-is-everywhere-in-this-city)

[ensco]

Competition Bureau to Potential Wireless and Internet Startups: Drop Dead

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-02/canada-regulator-won-t-challenge-rogers-bce-on-leafs-sale-1-.html

[Beach_Red]

Competition Bureau to Potential Wireless and Internet Startups: Drop Dead

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-02/canada-regulator-won-t-challenge-rogers-bce-on-leafs-sale-1-.html

Hey, they lifted some of the restrictions on foreign-owned companies in the wireless business - if they have less tan 10% of the market...

[narduch]

Does this mean that the deal closes sooner? There was talk that the deal would be delayed until September because of the competition bureau.

*crosses fingers that heads can start to roll at TFC FO*

[Shakes McQueen]

Competition Bureau to Potential Wireless and Internet Startups: Drop Dead

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-02/canada-regulator-won-t-challenge-rogers-bce-on-leafs-sale-1-.html

I'm a little confused why you think this equals that. The CRTC and Competition Bureau already gave telecom startups the finger over a series of decisions spanning years. Heck, they are doing it to internet startups as we speak.

I think the synergy between media companies and sports teams is pretty gross (the Sportsnet pushing of the Jays occasionally makes me feel like I need a shower), but the shoe has already dropped on that one. Two of these empires sharing ownership of MLSE isn't really much different. I always anticipated this would sail through with little resistance from the government.

- Scott

[ensco]

Does this mean that the deal closes sooner? There was talk that the deal would be delayed until September because of the competition bureau.

*crosses fingers that heads can start to roll at TFC FO*

This definitely hardens my view that TFC should do nothing until we see what Bell/Rogers is doing with TFC management.

[ensco]

I'm a little confused why you think this equals that. The CRTC and Competition Bureau already gave telecom startups the finger over a series of decisions spanning years. Heck, they are doing it to internet startups as we speak.

I think the synergy between media companies and sports teams is pretty gross (the Sportsnet pushing of the Jays occasionally makes me feel like I need a shower), but the shoe has already dropped on that one. Two of these empires sharing ownership of MLSE isn't really much different. I always anticipated this would sail through with little resistance from the government.

- Scott

It's not about media companies owning sports franchises. If either one was doing this, I'd be fine.

Here's the way I see it: if Bell and Rogers are combining to do anything, that should be opposed on principle as adverse to the public interest, given the combined concentration/market power of the two entities.

Let the agonies over massive debt service begin.

[jloome]

It's not about media companies owning sports franchises. If either one was doing this, I'd be fine.

Here's the way I see it: if Bell and Rogers are combining to do anything, that should be opposed on principle as adverse to the public interest, given the combined concentration/market power of the two entities.

Let the agonies over massive debt service begin.

LOL, little late for that. The Kent Commission heard extensively in 1980 what would happen if media concentration took place, and like all things driven by money, it had no consequence.

Public impact is only widely considered when the public feels insecure and politicians, as a consequence, do also.

When the average household income is over $55,000 a year nationally ($80,000 in Alberta) -- regardless of how much is actually serving debt -- people have a hard time getting behind issues of broad social consequence, because they don't REALLY affect their personal sense of security. It's much easier to accept a slightly reduced service, as well, once everything has been "tiered" into a broad enough variety of price ranges to appeal to most income levels.

It's a constant re-leveraging of how much the public is willing to take in terms of increased cost (from the debt) versus reduced service (from servicing that debt) and the reality is, we're not even close to the threshold. Our cellphone bills could be five times what they are in the U.S. and we still wouldn't call for increased competition, because the relative low cost of the implement -- the phone -- and the service balanced over the course of a month means people can still bare it.

You're right, they should do what's in the public interest. But with respect to business and government, I expect we'll see that about as quickly as we see dry-holers disappear from the venture capital market; most people are too distracted by life to care about things that don't really hurt them (even if they may hurt others or have long-term negative consquences.)

[Beach_Red]

^ Canadians used to believe in regulated monopolies, Ma Bell, Mother Hydro, AGT, and so on. Then we were sold this idea of competition and now what we have is niether. But you're right, as long as most of us can afford what we want we don't care.

[Whoop]

From John Shannon....



Competition Bureau sends a No Action Letter to Bell and Rogers saying it will not stand in the way of their purchase of MLSE.

Edit: I see ensco already got the news out.

[ensco]

It's not done yet.

Pretty disappointing to me to see that the CSA wrote a letter supporting the takeover. That smells bad. How a decrease in competition for bidding for Canadian soccer rights is good for the CSA, is beyond me.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1216953--mlse-bid-from-rogers-bell-triggers-concern-from-independent-operators

[Macksam]

The issue about being a short term problem is more a question of, can basketball be profitable long-term in this city? So far it really hasn't shown it can.
To your next point, what the Raptors have been deemed "worth" and whether they make money are two very different things. You and nor do I know if the Raptors make money because MLSE is not a publically traded company. However popular belief is that there is no way the Raptors have made money in recent years. Now that could change with an improvement on the court but there is little evidence that is changing anytime soon.
How do you figure? Saying basketball hasn't shown it can be profitable long term in this city based on the Raptors losing some fans due to management incompetence is like saying baseball or grid iron football hasn't shown it can be profitable long term in this city.

[narduch]

Looks like the change over is finally approaching:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mlse-board-expected-to-undergo-major-change-after-sale-is-finalized/article4426208/

The article speculates Aug. 1 as the date for the sale to be completed.

[Redcoe15]

it also is not known if the new owners have settled on a replacement for peddie as mlse president. the leading internal candidate is mlse’s chief operating officer, tom anselmi, who appears to have the support of tanenbaum and lastman. But both rogers and bell have kept their feelings quiet. the hiring of a new president will require the unanimous approval of the mlse board.
For the love of fuck Rogers, make some noise!!! Make sure Ansalmi doesn't get the presidency!!!

[Phil]

Ironically, Tom getting that role might mean he has less direct involvement. It may lend itself to an actuall hiring of a team President but at this point who knows?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I was just thinking that, Phil. If they replace his TFC involvement with someone who knows the game, hell, as long as the person is exclusively responsible for our team that will be a huge improvement on accountability.

[ryan]

I was just thinking that, Phil. If they replace his TFC involvement with someone who knows the game, hell, as long as the person is exclusively responsible for our team that will be a huge improvement on accountability.

As long as that guy doesn't have to fucking answer to Tommy Boy, or what good will it do.

[Beach_Red]

As long as that guy doesn't have to fucking answer to Tommy Boy, or what good will it do.

Or the board of directors. Remember Anselmi said he needed board approval to make a coaching change - and that's probably why the timing of the change was so bad, they had to wait for a scheduled board meeting and get it on the agenda. And remember when Winter had to make a presentation to the board on a game day? It's just a terrible way to run a sports team.

[Phil]

During an ownership change, I think the challenges get even harder. Now take 2 companies that dislike and compete with one another....

Remember when the Teachers were the bad guys? I shudder to think of the new levels of disfunction that may be upon all MLSE teams with these two companies calling the shots. Our best hope is to have Larry take full control.

[tfcleeds]

Agreed that no matter what happens, having Anselmi far, far away from direct involvement in this club can only be a good thing.

[GhostKiller]

For the love of fuck Rogers, make some noise!!! Make sure Ansalmi doesn't get the presidency!!!

Nothing says "I deserve a promotion" more then complete failure and incompetence since your first day. If this twat gets the job I might learn to hate him more then Tanenbaum

[Detroit_TFC]

I agree with Phil. This ownership arrangement seems really unstable. Throw a colossal fuck-up like Anselmi as President/CEO into the mix, woah buddy. We'll be glad if they barely pay attention to TFC.

[ag futbol]

Found this article on the web today ... quite random. Gives some insight into Media Companies buying (then divesting sports teams). Youtube video is pretty insightful.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/08/02/media-companies-no-longer-want-to-own-sports-teams/

[jazzy]

During an ownership change, I think the challenges get even harder. Now take 2 companies that dislike and compete with one another....

Remember when the Teachers were the bad guys? I shudder to think of the new levels of disfunction that may be upon all MLSE teams with these two companies calling the shots. Our best hope is to have Larry take full control.

not sure about that, he has been very meddling with raps and leafs, and is known to hold on to his favourites as well as overpay them locking the team into unneeded expenses....we need someone with balls that will stand up to the white collars and of course has football history. And more importantly doesn't care for FO advancement....lol pipe dream

[Redcoe15]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1234299--mlse-sale-wins-expected-to-matter-under-new-rogers-bell-regime

Appearantly, Richard Powers, assistant dean at the Rotman School of Business at the University of Toronto, believes there will be pressure for teams to win under the new regime at ML$E. Especially if Tom Anselmi becomes its president. Seriously!


“Under current management, the bottom line has been very positive,” said Powers. “The new owners have to maintain that and make improvements where they can. The real change, hopefully, will be on the ice and on the courts.”

That might mean good news for Anselmi, the organization’s executive vice president and chief operating officer and top man since Richard Peddie’s retirement. But it could be bad news for Burke and Colangelo.

“Tom, so far, has shown he can do the job,” said Powers.


Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but...

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[ryan]

“Under current management, the bottom line has been very positive,” said Powers.

EXACTLY. BOTTOM LINE


Shit doesn't matter except that. Keep your money folks!




“The new owners have to maintain that and make improvements where they can. The real change, hopefully, will be on the ice and on the courts.”

What about the pitch? Oh for fuck's sake. "Hopefully" ??? HOPEFULLY? DEMAND IT YOU FUCKING CUNTS. Fuck Toronto sports. Fuck it.

[ensco]

if they're going to quote clowns like this, I would like the Star to ask this idiot professor to disclose any and all interactions between himself and MLSE execs, and to share that disclosure with us.

What access to data, interviews, free tickets, anything, did this guy get, and from who?

Because how in God's name can you practice the sacred art of studying sports management in Toronto without interacting somehow with MLSE?

[prizby]

need to get a TFC fan on the board of directors #NuffSaid

[ensco]

This is interesting.
No frickin' way is paperwork the holdup of a deal scheduled to close on a date known weeks ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/paperwork-delays-completion-of-mlse-takeover/article4453459/

[jazzy]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1234299--mlse-sale-wins-expected-to-matter-under-new-rogers-bell-regime

Appearantly, Richard Powers, assistant dean at the Rotman School of Business at the University of Toronto, believes there will be pressure for teams to win under the new regime at ML$E. Especially if Tom Anselmi becomes its president. Seriously!



Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but...

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

wierd,.... on the sportsnet sight the focus of the same article was centred on the rogers/bell conglomerate being the instigators of change to win as opposed to mlse/teachers pension execs sole interest on profit.....therefore Burke/Colangelo/Anselmi all have to be nervous whether the future includes them ....yadayadayada...not in my lifetime

[Oldtimer]

This is interesting.
No frickin' way is paperwork the holdup of a deal scheduled to close on a date known weeks ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/paperwork-delays-completion-of-mlse-takeover/article4453459/

From that Globe article


All of the approvals necessary for the sale have been received, with the NHL, NBA, American Hockey League, Major Soccer League and the Competition Bureau all giving their consent

:facepalm:

[T-boy]

need to get a TFC fan on the board of directors #NuffSaid

Some English clubs have a "non executive, non voting" supporter from a supporters group on the board. It means that there is always transparency in regards to the club and the information the supporters are getting from board level.

[Oldtimer]

Some good news, most of the ML$E board are going to lose their positions:


Once the sale closes, the MLSE board of directors will undergo a major change. It will shrink from seven directors to six, as the incoming company president is not expected to get a seat. Leaving the board will be Robert Bertram, Jane Rowe, Glen Silvestri and Ashvin Malkani, who represented the former owner, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan Board. Richard Peddie stepped down from the board when he retired as MLSE president earlier this year.

The only holdovers on the new board will be MLSE chairman Larry Tanenbaum, who owns the other 25 per cent of the company, and his long-time associate Dale Lastman. The other four directors’ seats will be split equally between Rogers and BCE. A source said Rogers chief executive officer Nadir Mohamed and BCE CEO George Cope will be on the board but it isn’t known who the other BCE and Rogers representatives will be.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mlse-board-expected-to-undergo-major-change-after-sale-is-finalized/article4426208/

Bogers are going to have their top people on the board. This is great news, because first it means they are making ML$E a top priority, and secondly, unlike Pension Plan bureacrats, these are very smart people who won't be able to have the wool pulled over their eyes.

Speaking of Bell, they are running very well under their CEO:

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/08/08/bce-hikes-dividend-as-profit-spikes-31/

While profit will continue to be the primary goal, I expect these people to take a longer-term view than just the next quarter's results or this season's SSH sales.

[Redcoe15]

From the article,


It also is not known if the new owners have settled on a replacement for Peddie as MLSE president. The leading internal candidate is MLSE’s chief operating officer, Tom Anselmi, who appears to have the support of Tanenbaum and Lastman. But both Rogers and Bell have kept their feelings quiet. The hiring of a new president will require the unanimous approval of the MLSE board.

No one can expect any hope from ML$E if Anselmi gets the presidency. Especially on the TFC side if he's replaced by a personaly recommended Mini-Me version like Cochrane.

[BayernTFC]

Some good news, most of the ML$E board are going to lose their positions

Hopefully most decisions will not require unanimous approval:


There will be an interesting twist in how power is shared on the new board of directors. Bell and Rogers agreed that their four votes on the six-person board will always vote as one, which will prevent any deadlocks. It would also prevent Tanenbaum from aligning himself with one company against another if they disagree on an issue. Apparently, Bell and Rogers will hash it out in private how they will vote before any vote is taken.


Bell and Rogers are also expected to form a new company, which will hold their MLSE stake.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mlse-board-expected-to-undergo-major-change-after-sale-is-finalized/article4426208/


As a minority shareholder, Tanenbaum should just be collecting a share of any profit. He should be kept far away from business operations.

[BayernTFC]

No one can expect any hope from ML$E if Anselmi gets the presidency. Especially on the TFC side if he's replaced by a personaly recommended Mini-Me version like Cochrane.

The article just says Anselmi is the leading internal candidate. Hopefully Bell and Rogers are shrewd enough to protect their interests. My advice would be to avoid internal candidates altogether. The record speaks for itself. No more losers! It's time for a complete culture change. Bell and Rogers have 4 of the 6 votes. No one can be selected without their approval.

[OgtheDim]

...As a minority shareholder, Tanenbaum should just be collecting a share of any profit. He should be kept far away from business operations.


Actually, the Christmas tree builder has been the driving force behind MLSE for well over 5 years now. He is likely to want his man as President, and that would likely be Anselmi.

Anslemi has been very good at maximizing MLSE's real estate holdings.

The question is whether Rogers and Bell will be forceful on what they really need from MLSE, which is success providing eyeballs?

The two Rogers directors mentioned have been doing this with the Jays - which is one reason why Paul Beaston was hired back. If they forcefully bring that vision to the table, then MLSE would more likely pick a President who's CV more accurately represents that aspect of executive management. The Christmas Tree Builder could probably live with that, to be honest, so I don't see him fighting Rogers/Bell if they insist on somebody other then Anselmi.

I would say the likely Anselmi scenarios are

being around as the President of MLSE 40%

being still in charge of TFC under another president 5%

moved to another portfolio within MLSE that does not affect TFC 15%

moved to a portfolio within the Christmas Tree Builder's stable of companies - 40%.

[Phil]

I always thought the whispers said that Peddie was not liked by the Christmas tree builder, and that Anselmi represented the Peddie way.

[Whoop]

I figure ensco has more on the situation.

[ensco]

Tanenbaum and Peddie did not see eye to eye, or even get along. Tanenbaum thought Peddie was a bloodless technocratic weasel who knew nothing about sports (correct), Peddie thought Tanenbaum was a meddling rich kid who had done little in life prior to buying his way into MLSE (mostly correct).

Tanenbaum was never the driving force at MLSE. He was stymied by his relatively small shareholding and the structure (Teachers had control, or near control, throughout). Chairmen run board meetings, not the company itself. The place where Tanenbaum has been important is with the NHL itself. Tanenbaum is the MLSE delegate to the NHL Board of Governors. If you think about it, it's amazing how little comment this has gotten over the years. The Leafs willingness to go along with the hard salary cap, in return for territorial protection of their monopoly, is THE biggest story of the last 10 years, and Tanenbaum owns it. (Think the Yankees or Manchester United would ever support a hard cap in their leagues? Want to know why the Leafs will never be like them, even though their support in their league is similar?)

Tanenbaum's role as governor of the NHL was a key element of the sale negotiations - if Larry hadn't agreed to the Bell/Rogers deal, Teachers were going to take that away from him. It was the key lever to getting the new deal done.

I have no idea what Larry thinks of Anselmi, but have always assumed he would be unfriendly to Anselmi because he was a Peddie guy (as all MLSE execs were/are). I also think Anselmi's lack of polish would hurt him with a guy like Tanenbaum, who is a guy who is never seen in public in clothes that cost less than $5K. Just my opinion.

The way the votes work,it all depends on the dynamics in the room - if Bell/Rogers see eye to eye, then they will decide most everything. If not, Larry will have the deciding vote.

I see the delay in closing as extremely relevant/meaningful. The new CEO conversation may not be going well. Could the deal itself blow up yet?

Part of me hopes so. Much as I want Teachers gone, I fear this can't be better, especially for the Leafs. But TFC could be better off regardless, as long as Anselmi moves along to do something, anything, else.

[narduch]

This is interesting.
No frickin' way is paperwork the holdup of a deal scheduled to close on a date known weeks ago.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/paperwork-delays-completion-of-mlse-takeover/article4453459/

I find it interesting that this deal still hasn't closed.

My guess is that Bell and Rogers are having a hard time making decisions together.

[jazzy]

I find it interesting that this deal still hasn't closed.

My guess is that Bell and Rogers are having a hard time making decisions together.

MLSE is amazing at FO..control so ??....money is talking

[ensco]

... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock

[zamperina]

Bob McCown of the FAN590 hinted that some upper management will get the axe when its all said and done. He mentioned that he has many friends but they have all under performed when it came to the winning success of MLSE respective teams. I think its safe to say that Anselmi will be on the chopping block.

[mdc 77]

Bob McCown of the FAN590 hinted that some upper management will get the axe when its all said and done. He mentioned that he has many friends but they have all under performed when it came to the winning success of MLSE respective teams. I think its safe to say that Anselmi will be on the chopping block.

I still think its a long shot, but I heard the same from McCown last evening, and he was very strong with his thoughts that it would not surprise him in the least if their was a major house cleaning at MLSE. He clarified that he wasn't speaking about GM's/Presidents of teams either. Still would surprise me but after hearing McCown say that it gave me hope that this take over may actually bring some change, whether or not that translates into wins longterm for TFC, Leafs and Raptors we'll see. Can't get much worse then it is now.

[ensco]

I still think its a long shot, but I heard the same from McCown last evening, and he was very strong with his thoughts that it would not surprise him in the least if their was a major house cleaning at MLSE. He clarified that he wasn't speaking about GM's/Presidents of teams either. Still would surprise me but after hearing McCown say that it gave me hope that this take over may actually bring some change, whether or not that translates into wins longterm for TFC, Leafs and Raptors we'll see. Can't get much worse then it is now.

I am on the record saying that there will be a lot of turnover, and that the correct assumption is that Anselmi will be gone (I have bet a pint on it with someone here, can't remember who). It's been my view that this is highly likely, for a long time. It's why I am not that engaged in the "whither TFC" threads, too much could/will change ....

btw highly interesting that Bettman was very prominently photographed together with Burke (and not Tanenbaum) at the labour meetings yesterday. It could be nothing, but I think it's a clue. Not sure what it means yet though.

[ag futbol]

I still think its a long shot, but I heard the same from McCown last evening, and he was very strong with his thoughts that it would not surprise him in the least if their was a major house cleaning at MLSE. He clarified that he wasn't speaking about GM's/Presidents of teams either. Still would surprise me but after hearing McCown say that it gave me hope that this take over may actually bring some change, whether or not that translates into wins longterm for TFC, Leafs and Raptors we'll see. Can't get much worse then it is now.
You know, that's an interesting thought.

An ownership group like Bogers probably doesn't mean dynasty type performances and huge ambitions but it probably lends itself to having middle of the road teams (which I'd be happy with at this time). If you gave me the equivalent of the Jays performance for TFC year after year, I'd be happy with that.

[Beach_Red]

I am on the record saying that there will be a lot of turnover, and that the correct assumption is that Anselmi will be gone (I have bet a pint on it with someone here, can't remember who). It's been my view that this is highly likely, for a long time. It's why I am not that engaged in the "whither TFC" threads, too much could/will change ....

btw highly interesting that Bettman was very prominently photographed together with Burke (and not Tanenbaum) at the labour meetings yesterday. It could be nothing, but I think it's a clue. Not sure what it means yet though.

Yes, that seems like a good bet. I don't know anything about any of their other business, but when Bell took over CTV there were big changes from the top down.

[ensco]

Yes, that seems like a good bet. I don't know anything about any of their other business, but when Bell took over CTV there were big changes from the top down.

How fast did they move on the CTV execs? I would expect fast ....

[Beach_Red]

How fast did they move on the CTV execs? I would expect fast ....

Yeah it was fast. Fecan retired almost immediately and then his wife's shows were cancelled and Suzanne Boyce left pretty much right away. It was a few months later that the firings reached the VP and development levels but they really cleaned house. They didn't cancel everything in development but a few things from the old regime were cancelled.

[ManUtd4ever]

Bob McCown of the FAN590 hinted that some upper management will get the axe when its all said and done. He mentioned that he has many friends but they have all under performed when it came to the winning success of MLSE respective teams. I think its safe to say that Anselmi will be on the chopping block.

I have had the same inclination since news broke of the pending sale of MLSE. I maintain that Rogers and Bell will have a greater vested interest in providing a winning product.

Many TFC supporters on this site have declared that it will be business as usual at MLSE, but if there are wholesale changes at the executive level as speculated, I think that will signify a legitimate changing of the guard at the ownership level, and a potential cause for optimism at last.

[Redcoe15]

I am on the record saying that there will be a lot of turnover, and that the correct assumption is that Anselmi will be gone (I have bet a pint on it with someone here, can't remember who). It's been my view that this is highly likely, for a long time. It's why I am not that engaged in the "whither TFC" threads, too much could/will change ....

btw highly interesting that Bettman was very prominently photographed together with Burke (and not Tanenbaum) at the labour meetings yesterday. It could be nothing, but I think it's a clue. Not sure what it means yet though.
The meeting of the mindless? g:D

[Alonso]

Bob McCown of the FAN590 hinted that some upper management will get the axe when its all said and done. He mentioned that he has many friends but they have all under performed when it came to the winning success of MLSE respective teams. I think its safe to say that Anselmi will be on the chopping block.


I won't even bother getting my hopes up.

My mother used to tell me all the time that if it's to good to be true then it probably isn't.

[Phil]

Reports are saying that the takeover is done. Now we have to wait and see, I hope these reports of sweeping changes at the top happen soon.

[Auzzy]

"CRTC approves BCE, Rogers purchase of MLSE"

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1242643--crtc-approves-bce-rogers-purchase-of-mlse

No conditions mentioned; they don't seem to need to get rid of any of the media properties (e.g., specialty sports channels within MLSE).

EDIT: wrong, there are some conditions attached:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/crtc-approves-13-billion-mlse-deal/article4483893/

[Auzzy]

Per CRTC policy applicants were expected to make specific incremental commitments to fund initiatives that will enhance the Canadian broadcasting system. The applicants had proposed a $3.8 million in tangible benefits. After a review of the value of the transaction, BCE and Rogers will be required to spend $7.5 million over the next seven years on the creation of new sports-themed programming by Canadian independent producers.


http://rbr.com/crtc-approves-sale-of-sports-networks/

I guess that's it for the "adjustments" required?

[Beach_Red]

http://rbr.com/crtc-approves-sale-of-sports-networks/

I guess that's it for the "adjustments" required?

Yeah, Bell and Rogers pretty much own the CRTC - it's the definition of "regulatory capture."

[narduch]

Its now official:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/08/22/rogers-bell-mlse.html

Will be interesting to see what happens next.

[ag futbol]

May the house cleaning begin!

[ensco]

Ding dong the witch is dead. Teachers are gone.

Break out the lampshades.

[ManUtd4ever]

We don't need no corporations

We don't need no cost control

The chairs are vacant in the boardroom

Teachers leave my teams alone...

Hey, teachers, leave my teams alone!

All in all we'll just have another Town Hall

[ryan]

dear bogers goons who are reading these boards to figure out what to do with us. I just want to say that I promise to stop stealing your overpriced TV content from the interwebs if you clean house at MLSE. I'll even sign up for your VIP fuck-me-in-the-ass-without-lube package.

thanks

-ryan

[Fort York Redcoat]

Will they wait for change?

Some teams are in season some are in between and some may not have a season.

Will it be all at once?

[Auzzy]

With the MLSE sale having taken a while, I HOPE that Bogers have already been watching the situation closely, have spoken with lots of people within & outside of the organization, and have some kind of "shadow executive" ready to go. After some corporate takeovers, you can see that the new owners are well prepared, and already have a plan in place. In other cases, you see them bumbling about for a few years until they have a clue what to do.

[cmonyoureds]

If Bogers is smart, they fire everyone from top down. Then they get their hands on the original names of season seat holders etc. from year one and beg them to come back. Then they start marketing the heck out of next year as "Season I"

[Fort York Redcoat]

If Bogers is smart, they fire everyone from top down. Then they get their hands on the original names of season seat holders etc. from year one and beg them to come back. Then they start marketing the heck out of next year as "Season I"

Interesting. I understand why they'd want to recapture the Season One feel but not only will those STH's NOT be as carefree and optimistic as they were but more likely to give up their tickets again.

[TFC Cityboy]

hopefully the house cleaning begins at the top and Bogers fires the whole fookin lot of them...

or it could be the case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss"

[cmonyoureds]

Interesting. I understand why they'd want to recapture the Season One feel but not only will those STH's NOT be as carefree and optimistic as they were but more likely to give up their tickets again.

It's true they'd be quicker to give them up, but let's face it, who else can they market tickets to? Groupon? Oh wait......

Judging by the majority of people posting around here, a few higher up firings and a total overhaul of the way things are done might provide enough optimism to restart this team and it's fan base.
I bet firing Tommy boy would provide an automatic sit up, take notice and renew bump.

[Oldtimer]

I bet firing Tommy boy would provide an automatic sit up, take notice and renew bump.

No need to fire Tommy A. Transfer him to ML$E's real estate arm. He'd do really well there.
As long as he's kept far, very far from any sports team, he's fine.

I actually expect Bell/Rogers to take their time. We probably won't see their moves until the winter.

[T-boy]

No need to fire Tommy A. Transfer him to ML$E's real estate arm. He'd do really well there.
As long as he's kept far, very far from any sports team, he's fine.

I actually expect Bell/Rogers to take their time. We probably won't see their moves until the winter.

I'd think they would wait to see what is happening with the NHL to make any moves at all. IF the NHL isn't going to happen this season, they are going to have a lot of time to work out the problems with the other sports! That would be an interesting time at TFC and the Raptors!

[moralis]

It looks like Rogers is buying Score Media (The Score):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/rogers-communications-to-acquire-score-media/article4497481/

[ag futbol]

It looks like Rogers is buying Score Media (The Score):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/rogers-communications-to-acquire-score-media/article4497481/
You have to be shitting me, rogers and bell have a duopoly on the sports market now.

And in the "should have done that" department, I was going to buy the stock a week ago based on takeover potential. *groan*

[Dreadlocks]

I wonder if this will mean that the TFC matches next year that would be on GolTV will be on the Score instead.

[Redcoe15]

It looks like Rogers is buying Score Media (The Score):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/rogers-communications-to-acquire-score-media/article4497481/

And puppies and kittens are being tossed into a wood chipper as we speak
.

[Blowing Bubbles]

You have to be shitting me, rogers and bell have a duopoly on the sports market now.

And in the "should have done that" department, I was going to buy the stock a week ago based on takeover potential. *groan*

cmon son

1. the stock was worth more a week ago then it is today anyway
2. this type of takeover isn't going to make a stock pop
3. the value of The Score is a piss in the ocean compared to Rogers market cap

[prizby]

I wonder if this will mean that the TFC matches next year that would be on GolTV will be on the Score instead.

with sharman and kj commentating LOL

[ag futbol]

cmon son

1. the stock was worth more a week ago then it is today anyway
2. this type of takeover isn't going to make a stock pop
3. the value of The Score is a piss in the ocean compared to Rogers market cap
ummm.... you may want to check your facts on 1 & 2

And while number three is true, it only makes them an easier target ...

[Fort York Redcoat]

I wonder if this will mean that the TFC matches next year that would be on GolTV will be on the Score instead.


with sharman and kj commentating LOL

Why LOL?

I'd fuckkin love that priz.

[Auzzy]

I wonder what this all means:
Nadir Mohamed stepping down as CEO of Rogers
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/nadir-mohamed-stepping-down-as-ceo-of-rogers/article8710887/

[Oldtimer]

I wonder what this all means:
Nadir Mohamed stepping down as CEO of Rogers
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/nadir-mohamed-stepping-down-as-ceo-of-rogers/article8710887/

Since he is one of two Rogers appointees on the ML$E board, it could mean changes. Right now Bell seems to be making the decisions for ML$E, with Rogers just going along with whatever they want.

[billyfly]

The news came out internally last night. He'll retire in 2014 and Ed Rogers will not be considered as a candidate.

[ensco]

Not sure it means much. It is being telegraphed long in advance, which means it's orderly and not likely a sign of friction.

Mohamed has been making $10 million a year ish for the the past 5 years, and working 90 hour weeks for years. It's not actually fun to be a CEO, if you are a normal person, and Mohamed always strikes me as a regular guy at heart. Most of us would want out after 5 years too.

Mohamed's legacy is the MLSE deal which, I have argued elsewhere, was a masterstroke for Rogers.

I think he was one of the good guys and am sorry to see him go.

[billyfly]

Rumours are that he (and his family) don't really dig the Rosedale life.

I think he's going back to the West Coast.

[ensco]

The "bid book" prepared by the bankers who advised the NBA is an exhibit in the Sterling lawsuit.

http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2014/0723/Exhibit_43.pdf

It is the most informative financial disclosure in pro sports I've seen in years. This presentation has the numbers for everything that matters, especially TV rights, which we rarely/never see broken out like this.

It's interesting to compare the MLSE deal to the Clippers sale:

- MLSE was bought for an identical price to that paid for the Clippers ($2.1 billion Canadian),

- MLSE had around $200M in revenues and $80M in EBITDA when sold (as compared to about $180M and $20M for the Clippers, in Canadian dollars).

- Both were sold for very high multiples of current revenues (MLSE 10.5x, Clippers 12x), in both cases this was way,way through the industry metrics. Amazing to see how recently these traded for 2-3x revenues.

- Profitability of the two entities will be similar once the new local TV deal for the Clippers comes on line with $100M incremental revenue). Don't forget the Leafs got a bit of a boost (somewhere between $10-20M) with the new Rogers national NHL deal.

- MLSE comes with a piece of downtown real estate worth hundreds of millions. The Clippers are renters.

- MLSE is a much more diversified asset and is a monopoly across all platforms. The Clippers aren't (they're not even close to the number one team in their market, current Laker woes notwithstanding).

- MLSE comes with an iconic global brand. The Clippers don't.

- There is some effort in that document to "adjust" for demographics (ie adjust for LA's larger population) but the case they make is lame. They never connect that to dollars (or anything else)

I though Bell/Rogers overpaid, but seeing this, they got one hell of a deal.