TFC Current Roster/Cap Space Estimate

[Bdking2]

I don't know about all of you but I think there are some that would appreciate a thread like this for the next couple months. I will try to keep it up to date as much as possible. There will be mistakes. If you see something wrong please just let me know and I'll change it.

Salary Budget Players (Salaries Count Towards Cap)


Roster Slot Player Salary (Based on 2011 Guaranteed Salary)


1 Frings $350,000 (I) (DP)
2 Hassli $350,000 (I) (DP)
3 Eckersley $350,000 (I)
4 Avila $158,000
5 Hall $149,000
6 Johnson $137,813
7 Cann $134,750
8 Harden $98,667
9 Dunfield $86,000
10 Silva $79,000
11 Lambe $62,500 (I)
12 Maund $59,000
13 Williams $52,500 (I)
14 Kocic $44,100
15 Amarikwa $44,100
16 Morgan $44,000 (Signed new Contract)
17
18
19 $33,750 (Empty Roster Spot)
20 $33,750 (Empty Roster Spot)

* Koevermans $350,000 (Disabled List) (DP)
* Frei $175,000 (Disabled List)
* Plata $50,000 (On Loan)
Off Budget Players (Salaries Do Not Count Towards Cap)


Roster Slot Player Salary (Based on 2011 Guaranteed Salary)

21 Wiedeman $123,000 (Generation Adidas)
22 Henry $45,100 (HGP)
23 Emory $44,000
24 Stinson $44,000 (HGP)
25 Makubuya $44,000 (HGP)
26 Cordon $44,000 (HGP)
27 Roberts $33,750 (HGP)
28
29 (Blank Roster spot adds $35,000 Allocation)
30 (Blank Roster spot adds $35,000 Allocation)

* Lindsay $45,100 (HGP) (Season Ending Injury)

Based on 2012 MLS Roster Rules, this years cap is $2,810,000.

Based on the above numbers, from this year, we are currently at $2,841,930.

Allocation was clearly used to bring down Eckersley's salary (listed at $390,000) as well as some others.

*Allocation for ending the season poorly.
*Allocation for making it through CCL group stage.
*Allocation for leaving roster spots 29-30 empty.

International Roster Spots

8 from league
+1 for trade for Huckerby (end of 2013)
+1 for trade with San Jose (end of 2012)
-1 for trade for Hassli (end of 2013)
___________________________________
=9 International Roster Spots

1. Eckersley
2. Frings
3. Williams
4. Lambe
5. Hassli

International Roster Spots Available: 4??

Here is the Roster put into position based on using the 4-4-2



Johnson Hassli
(Makubuya) (Amarikwa)
(Lambe) (Koevermans)



Avila Frings Dunfield Silva
(Cordon) (Stinson)



Morgan Emroy Eckersley Hall
(Henry) (Cann)
(Harden)
(Williams) (Maund)


Kocic
(Roberts)
(Frei)
Any ideas about this formation please give some input. Just trying to see where we need to concentrate on improving.


I pulled Player Salaries From Here
http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/May 15, 2012 Salary Information - By Club.pdf

I pulled our Current Roster from here
http://www.torontofc.ca/players

I pulled the new 2012 MLS Roster Rules From Here
http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules

[KGH]

I'm pretty sure you it's the guaranteed $ that counts toward the Cap not the base.

"The first is the player's current base salary. The second is characterized as annual average guaranteed compensation. The annual average guaranteed compensation number includes a player's base salary and all signing and guaranteed bonuses annualized over the term of the player's contract, including option years. For example, if a player has a base salary of $50,000, has a two-year contract with two one-year options and received a $10,000 bonus when he signed, his average annual guaranteed compensation would be $52,500 (base salary plus signing bonus ($10,000), with the signing bonus divided by the number of years covered by the contract (4)). The average annual guaranteed compensation number also includes any annual marketing bonus to be received in the current year and any agent's fees annualized over the term of the contract. The average annual guaranteed compensation figure does not include performance bonuses because there is no guarantee that the player will hit those bonuses."

http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html

I also put this in a couple threads yesterday but this seems like a good spot for it:

I. MLS ROSTER COMPOSITION

A Major League Soccer club’s first team roster is comprised of up to 30 players. All 30 players are eligible for selection to each 18-player game-day squad during the regular season and playoffs.

Salary & Budget:

Players occupying roster spots 1-20 count against the club’s 2011 salary budget of $2,675,000, and are referred to collectively as the club’s Salary Budget Players.
Roster spots 19 and 20 are not required to be filled, and teams may spread their salary budget across only 18 Salary Budget Players. A minimum salary budget charge will be imputed against a team’s salary budget for each unfilled senior roster slot below 18.
The maximum budget charge for a single player is $335,000.*
A Designated Player counts $335,000 against the club’s salary budget, unless the player joins his club in the middle of the season, in which case his budget charge will be $167,500.
* See section entitled Allocation Money below, under Player Acquisition Mechanisms, for details on buying down a player’s budget charge.

Players occupying roster spots 21-30 do not count against the club’s salary budget, and are referred to collectively as the club’s Off-Budget Players (maximum of 10 per team).
All Generation adidas players are Off-Budget players.
Players occupying roster spots 1-24 will earn at least $42,000 in 2011.
Players occupying roster spots 25-30 will earn at least $32,600 in 2011.
Clubs may elect to leave up to two of these roster spots (25-30) vacant and use $35,000 for each empty spot as allocation money.
Clubs may sign up to two Home Grown Players to Generation adidas contracts.
Age Designations:

Any player making $32,600 must be under the age 25 (does not turn 25 or older in 2011).

[Yohan]

thanks for the leg work. i do believe that the cap hit per player may be higher, pending on how the contract is structured and some guaranteed compensation does end up being included in cap hit. (frigging MLS rules) conservatively, I'd say TFC has about 400k in cap space left. also, probably at least a little bit of bump on players needing to be resigned. couple of other players may get a bit of raise as well (Morgan, Kocic)

this is without Plata and/or Eck being re-signed. so in reality, TFC doesn't have that much wiggle room

[Greatest Ripoff]

Does that cap go up each year and if so, does anyone know what it will be for 2012?

[Bdking2]

OK I'll switch to Garanteed Salary.

[Pookie]

^ that's a good explanation of what average compensation is but it doesn't reference the base salary vs the guaranteed salary counting against the cap.

MLS has never stated a position on it and holds the salary information close to the vest. A large number of sources indicate that it is the base salary that counts. Just google it.

As an example, TFC has been routinely over the cap with guaranteed compensation and the max cap hit for DPs factored in. That wouldn't be possible if the guaranteed number counts.

In the end, it really doesn't matter though. MLS has an extremely soft cap and "allocation money" mysteriously appears when necessary.

It is an advantage for teams with money (like LA and Toronto if we want) to exploit the guaranteed component with a lower base salary.

[KGH]

The real wild card is and always will be the magic allocation. I imagine we were over the limit using guaranteed as we've received allocation $$ every year.

[ManUtd4ever]

It might make sense to move Frei and Cann for assets such as allocation or draft picks, considering that it would free up almost 300K in cap space for two players that are somewhat expendable on the current roster.

[Mshob]

I believe Hall is Generation Adidas.. Also Barrett and DeRo officially off the TFC payroll.

Also keep in mind some players may have been renegotiated to a cheaper deal.

Lastly we do have a fair amount of allocation money because of us qualifying to the knock-out stage of the CCL.

[Yohan]

Hall graduated from GA in 09 or 10

[Yohan]

It might make sense to move Frei and Cann for assets such as allocation or draft picks, considering that it would free up almost 300K in cap space for two players that are somewhat expendable on the current roster.
slim pickings as it is unknown whether Frei has green card for sure, and Cann would be an int for most MLS teams

[Bdking2]

With Academy grads and the 2 picks in the first round. I see us having to trade some of our guys away. But who?

[KGH]

^^ I wonder if the option for Cann will simply be declined.

Oh and here's the International rule:

Domestic/International:

In 2011, a total of 144 international slots are divided among the 18 clubs. Each club began with eight international slots, which are tradable. There is no limit on the number of international slots on each club’s roster.
The remaining roster slots must belong to domestic players. For clubs based in the United States, a domestic player is either a U.S. citizen, a permanent resident (green card holder) or the holder of other special status (e.g., refugee or asylum status).


The two MLS clubs based in Canada – Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC – began with eight international slots, but their domestic slots may be filled with either Canadian or U.S. domestic players.
MLS clubs based in Canada are required to have a minimum of three Canadian domestic players on their rosters.
Players with the legal right to work in Canada are considered Canadian domestic players (i.e., Canadian citizen, permanent resident, part of a protected class).

[Oldtimer]

Cap goes up 5% for 2012.

TFC gets two allocations (either $220k for a major or $110k for a partial), a major one for missing the playoffs, it's uncertain what we get for CCL ($110k or $220k). So that adds $330k-$440k.

So the 5% increase plus the allocations makes things less dire.

[Pookie]

^ don't forget the magic LA/NYRB clause:

This was how it was worded in 2010 (re-worded in 2011 for obvious reasons):

A base amount of allocation money is awarded to all teams in the league, then additional amounts are distributed for:

• performance during the preceding MLS regular season (i.e., missing the playoffs);
• the transfer of a player to a club outside of MLS;
• roster purposes due to expansion status;
• exceptional circumstances as approved by the Competition Committee.


Each year the MLS Competition Committee determines the allocation amount to be made available to each team. Allocation money can be traded by teams and does not count against a team's salary budget.

So, in summary, a team can get allocation money for lots of public reasons and for other "exceptional circumstances" if the competition committee... ie. the league.... thinks they have these "exceptional circumstances." Oh and for kickers, the amount is never made public.

Sounds all legit to me. Nothing to see here.

[KGH]

^^ I wonder if thats why the league was down in LA with our folks talking to Plata's team.

[Bdking2]

Oldtimer - I have added added 5% to the cap already.

I've been trying to figure out who is taking up international slots. Some help on this would be great.

[KGH]

Best guess:

1) Frings
2) Koevermans
3) Bouchiba
4) Soolsma
5) Eckersley
6) Plata
7) Yourassowsky
8) Williams

Everyone else is US/CDN or has been rumoured to have a green card

[KGH]

We also picked up / traded for some international spots. In 2011 it was a net neutral as we got 1 in the Johnson trade but gave one in the Avila trade. Anyone know how many we have from other years?

[T-boy]

We really shouldn't be wasting international spots on depth players, that's such a waste! Bouchiba, Yourradiver and Williams really stand out on that list. If we could replace those with domestic players, that free's up international spots for more important first team players!

[oxygenatedbrain]

We still have two of SJs spots: the one acquired last season (until 1/1/13,according to SJ watchers), and one from the Huckerby trade through next year. The one we sent to Dallas with M.Santos was only for last year...as was he, apparently.

[Bdking2]

For international spots. We started with 8. Have picked up 2 from San Jose but gave up one to Dallas. Leaving us at 9??

Also I just updated the first post with a formation with existing players please help me organize it a bit more as there are propbably mistakes and suggestions.

[KGH]

For international spots. We started with 8. Have picked up 2 from San Jose but gave up one to Dallas. Leaving us at 9??

Also I just updated the first post with a formation with existing players please help me organize it a bit more as there are propbably mistakes and suggestions.

It's really more of a 4-2-1-3 formation with Frings and JDG hanging back an the AM forward

Hall is a RB, Soolsma had rw most of the year, and you're missing Bouchiba who is a Mid

[Ossington Mental Youth]

formations about right, alot of thsoe dudes can play in a couple different positions and id switch frings to the side with avila playing in the mid and up a bit but thats just me nitpicking

[jloome]

We really shouldn't be wasting international spots on depth players, that's such a waste! Bouchiba, Yourradiver and Williams really stand out on that list. If we could replace those with domestic players, that free's up international spots for more important first team players!

Bouchiba's an ex Eredivisie player whom we've never seen play. How can you possibly determine him to be a waste based on no performance? Plus, at 92,000 he's a pretty cheap international who has played with both Koevermans and Winter before.

Bit early on that one. I might agree on Williams as he didn't look much before he went down. Yourrasowsky's a good depth player at this level.

[prizby]

williams looked good when he started starting...reason why he was starting for jamaica

[Bdking2]

It's really more of a 4-2-1-3 formation with Frings and JDG hanging back an the AM forward

Hall is a RB, Soolsma had rw most of the year, and you're missing Bouchiba who is a Mid


I switched Hall to the right and threw Bouchiba into the midfield. I have Soolsma on the right already. Do you mean, put him in as the starter?

[Greatest Ripoff]

Bouchiba's an ex Eredivisie player whom we've never seen play. How can you possibly determine him to be a waste based on no performance? Plus, at 92,000 he's a pretty cheap international who has played with both Koevermans and Winter before.

Bit early on that one. I might agree on Williams as he didn't look much before he went down. Yourrasowsky's a good depth player at this level.

I've liked Yourrasowsky best at LB but with all the fixture congestion at the beginning of the season he'll be great to have around to fill in different holes. I am also excited to see Bouchiba play, as I know next to nothing about him.

[Wooster_TFC]

I commend you on the effort to create this thread, hopefully it will last longer than the two I created, since they won't stay stickied, and posting by yourself in your own thread just to keep it alive seems rather uncouth.

There's some good info on roster spots in the second one.

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=28858

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=3237

[Bdking2]

Wooster TFC - Thanks for the information. I just switched up the International slots a bit to reflect what was in one of your threads.

[TFCRegina]

Not sure if you counted this toward cap but league minimum and academy contracts don't count towards the cap from my understanding...

[KGH]

Not sure if you counted this toward cap but league minimum and academy contracts don't count towards the cap from my understanding...

The 2nd post in this thread has the roster/cap rules...

[Bdking2]

I only counted the first 20 roster spots towards the cap. Leaving spots 21-30 off in my calculations.

Right now I pushed Dunfield and Williams down so they aren't counting towards the cap. I'm not sure how this works exactly, but if we sign any academy kids or draft choses I'll have to move them back into Roster spots 1-20.

[KGH]

1-20 are the capped guys so you have to fill those with Dunfield and Wiliams. If we don't fill spot 29-30 we get an extra $35k / spot of allocation $.

[Whoop]

Isn't Plata in line for a raise given that he is on the verge of re-signing with TFC?

[Bdking2]

KGH - I put Dunfield and Williams back the top 20 roster spots.

"Roster spots 19 and 20 are not required to be filled, and teams may spread their salary budget across only 18 Salary Budget Players. A minimum salary budget charge will be imputed against a team’s salary budget for each unfilled senior roster slot below 18."

Wasn't sure how to handle this because it says for each spot below 18 we leave unfilled a minimum salary charge will be imputed. Also it doesn't list an age limit on guys between roster numbers 21-24, so I thought I would just leave them there.

At this point I'll add the extra $70K for the 2 empty spots we have.

[Kaz]

How is it we let 8 players go since November 1st, and picked one up but still have 26 spot of a 30 spot roster filled?

Did we get special allowance for Lindsey, Cann, and Bouchiba (sp)

[Yohan]

How is it we let 8 players go since November 1st, and picked one up but still have 26 spot of a 30 spot roster filled?

Did we get special allowance for Lindsey, Cann, and Bouchiba (sp)
yes. season ending injuries

[prizby]

i think you need to realize that dunfield i think is in for a big raise

i think he got paid a load of money up front during the vancouver nasl year so he would be a smaller cap hit his first year

[Smokecell]

should be noted that we get allocation $$$ from the league for the CCL

[prizby]

should be noted that we get allocation $$$ from the league for the CCL

rsl were about $300k over the cap last year...think we get more for not being in the playoffs

[Bdking2]

Ok so Dunfield, Eckersley if we get him, and plata are all in line to get their contracts renegotiated - anyone else to make note of?

Also I'll make notes that we should be getting Allocation money for both finish the season so poorly and making through the group in CCL.

Anything else?

[Oldtimer]

Ok so Dunfield, Eckersley if we get him, and plata are all in line to get their contracts renegotiated - anyone else to make note of?

Also I'll make notes that we should be getting Allocation money for both finish the season so poorly and making through the group in CCL.

Anything else?

TFC has a high enough pick to snag a GA player (which counts $0 towards the cap) if they can find someone who fits in.

[denime]

Ok so Dunfield, Eckersley if we get him, and plata are all in line to get their contracts renegotiated - anyone else to make note of?

Also I'll make notes that we should be getting Allocation money for both finish the season so poorly and making through the group in CCL.

Anything else?

Avila is another one in line to get their contracts renegotiated.

[prizby]

i think just about everyone in there contract has a small escalating raise every year (2-5%)...look at the past tendencies...jdg was about 100k more this year vs. last

avila is out of contract, although i thought he might have an option year left, merosevic had 2 option years, according to cann he had an option year...same as dunfield, but then he said he was out of contract or something, dicoy williams was out of contract i think, kocic had an option, frei signed a 3 year contract last year, assuming johnson and hall are signed, same as bouchiba, sturgis, and soolsma, i think iro and harden were negotiating or something...isn't minimum MLS salary going up to $45k and developmental contracts going up to $35k?

i am not positive on any of this; just going off the best i remember hearing

[Keegan]

Expectations should be really high for next year with all the advantages we have... especially if we can get 2 good GA players, look out.

[ouderwien]

How much do you expect Lambe to make
or
Where does he fit on the roster/salary scale?
PS the international spots confuse me, in that there are more internationals that spots available. Are some also considered domestic?

[KGH]

How much do you expect Lambe to make
or
Where does he fit on the roster/salary scale?
PS the international spots confuse me, in that there are more internationals that spots available. Are some also considered domestic?

For salary my guess is in the $75-90k range.

You can trade for int spots but I believe the trade is only good for a period of time. In essence you loan out int spots.

The mls rules on Dom/int are:

Domestic/International:

In 2011, a total of 144 international slots are divided among the 18 clubs. Each club began with eight international slots, which are tradable. There is no limit on the number of international slots on each club’s roster.

The remaining roster slots must belong to domestic players. For clubs based in the United States, a domestic player is either a U.S. citizen, a permanent resident (green card holder) or the holder of other special status (e.g., refugee or asylum status).

The two MLS clubs based in Canada – Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC – began with eight international slots, but their domestic slots may be filled with either Canadian or U.S. domestic players.

MLS clubs based in Canada are required to have a minimum of three Canadian domestic players on their rosters.

Players with the legal right to work in Canada are considered Canadian domestic players (i.e., Canadian citizen, permanent resident, part of a protected class).

NOTE: The terms Home Grown and Generation adidas are used to describe mechanisms by which players are acquired. They are not roster designations. All players’ roster slots are determined by their compensation and/or age as outlined above.

[ouderwien]

Ahh sorry I misspoke, I understand the rules, but everytime I count it looks like there are more international players on our team (13) by my count then there are spots.

For example:

Frei
Kocic
Iro
Eckersley
Williams
Bouchiba
Yourassowsky
Frings
Plata
Johnson
Koevermans
Soolsma
Lambe

So I was wondering which of these players are considered domestic then, if it is known.

[KGH]

Ahh sorry I misspoke, I understand the rules, but everytime I count it looks like there are more international players on our team (13) by my count then there are spots.

For example:

Frei
Kocic
Iro
Eckersley
Williams
Bouchiba
Yourassowsky
Frings
Plata
Johnson
Koevermans
Soolsma
Lambe

So I was wondering which of these players are considered domestic then, if it is known.

Frei, Kocic, Iro, and Johnson all have a green cards (or equivalent) so they count as US players.

[ouderwien]

Frei, Kocic, Iro, and Johnson all have a green cards (or equivalent) so they count as US players.

Thanks for the help!:thumbsup:

[T-boy]

Thanks for the help!:thumbsup:

How does it work when a player is on the permanent injury list, like Bouchiba last year? Does he get taken off the international list so we could sign another? Or did he still count as one of our international spots last season?

[mowe]

Since you're adding who's contract is being renegotiated I thought I should compile a list of who else that might apply to (all info taken from the players themselves at the end-of-season pressers).

Team option for 2012
Cann
Marosevic
Johnson
Harden

Out of contract
Avila
Williams
Iro

As someone already pointed out, most players get a bit of a raise in each progressing year of their contract. So we would have less cap space than the number in the OP, probably closer to 200k (minus how much Lambe got and not including allocation obviously).

That being said, I don't think we should pick up Marosevic's option. In my opinion he's only worth about 80k, if he wants much more than that then let him go. Johnson's option would be a little pricey but his versatility makes it worth it. And I'd be fine with bringing Harden back for one more year for about 60k, no more (so he's likely gone).

I also think Iro's coming back, solely because without him we'd be dangerously low on "proven CB's". We'd only have Henry and a likely new CB, as who knows how fit Cann will be and if Williams is even re-signed (I hope he is, I thought he was our best CB before he got injured).

And one last minor gripe, there's no point having (D) next to the domestic players. It'd be easier to read who's international if you only left the (I)'s. Great work on this thread, it's a good resource for the offseason. :)

[Bdking2]

mowe - just added in, the team option players and out contract players you mentioned. Also took out the D's to make it easier to read good call.

I have it saying "Contract being Renegotiated" is this the best term for these players?

I also put Lambe up on the Right wing.

[KGH]

How does it work when a player is on the permanent injury list, like Bouchiba last year? Does he get taken off the international list so we could sign another? Or did he still count as one of our international spots last season?

(K) SEASON-ENDING INJURY REPLACEMENTS

A team with a player lost to a season-ending injury can replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the season-ending injury list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).

(L) SHORT-TERM INJURY REPLACEMENTS

A team with a player who has a short-term injury can replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the short-term injured reserve list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). Note that the injured player will have to sit out a minimum of six MLS League matches before he can rejoin the team’s roster. International player limits still apply at the time a short-term replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).

NOTE: No changes may be made to a team's active full roster during the period beginning on September 16, 2011 (day after Roster Freeze Date) through the day after MLS Cup. Nevertheless, a team may obtain players in accordance with the extreme hardship rules and procedures to replace players who are injured or otherwise legitimately unavailable after the Roster Freeze Date. Any other replacements after the Roster Freeze Date may only be made in exceptional circumstances in the League’s sole and absolute discretion.*

[Shway]

just a super random thought...

does anyone know if he is a canadian citizen? hes been here for almost 6 years, is there a possibility he could play for Canada?

EDIT: Player im referring to is Stefan Frei

[Yohan]

just a super random thought...

does anyone know if he is a canadian citizen? hes been here for almost 6 years, is there a possibility he could play for Canada?
who are you talking about?

[Shway]

oops ... Frei

[Oldtimer]

oops ... Frei

He is not a Canadian citizen and has already said he would like to play for Switzerland.

[Yohan]

He is not a Canadian citizen and has already said he would like to play for Switzerland.
plus his cousins who plays for Swiss MNT would kill him

[prizby]

just a super random thought...

does anyone know if he is a canadian citizen? hes been here for almost 6 years, is there a possibility he could play for Canada?

EDIT: Player im referring to is Stefan Frei

i'd love to know where you get he's been in Canada for almost 6 years?

did we forget what we learned in grade 1 on how to count :p

[Shway]

c'mooonnnnn a man can't double his point in light of his hope for something good lol

and Frei will come to a realization real fast with that Swiss dream, not to say he's not good enough but time is ticking (reminds me of his first year interviews when you would hear him mention swiss every other word)

[prizby]

c'mooonnnnn a man can't double his point in light of his hope for something good lol

and Frei will come to a realization real fast with that Swiss dream, not to say he's not good enough but time is ticking (reminds me of his first year interviews when you would hear him mention swiss every other word)

haha :p

you are right about 1 thing...swiss dream is dead the longer he stays here

[Bdking2]

Updated with the removal of Sturgis.

[Chris Wren]

I am confused with how much longer JDG's contract runs for. Is he locked in for this year as a DP and then that's the end of the contract?

If somebody could clear up his status with the team for me it would be much appreciated.

[Oldtimer]

I am confused with how much longer JDG's contract runs for. Is he locked in for this year as a DP and then that's the end of the contract?

If somebody could clear up his status with the team for me it would be much appreciated.

His DP status and his contract ends this year.

If he stays beyond this year, it will be on a new contract, which may or may not be a DP deal. Unless he performs like he did the last few games last year for every game this year, I'd be surprised to see him back after the contract runs out.

[Chris Wren]

His DP status and his contract ends this year.

If he stays beyond this year, it will be on a new contract, which may or may not be a DP deal. Unless he performs like he did the last few games last year for every game this year, I'd be surprised to see him back after the contract runs out.

Thanks, I originally thought it was done at the end of last year. Some might say wishful thinking.

I think he started playing pretty well last season. In my opinion it was a combo of complete health, more internal stability with the new regime and the addition of quality players. De Guzman appears to be a player who isn't out of place with more talent, but maybe can't make lesser players better himself.

If he could come back for around the 300 000 dollar range, or Carl Robinson territory, leaving room for a 3rd DP I would be happy with that.

[Yohan]

If he could come back for around the 300 000 dollar range, or Carl Robinson territory, leaving room for a 3rd DP I would be happy with that.
I don't get this. JDG@300k might as well be another DP cap wise. Imagine trying to put together a team with 3 DPs and JDG at 300k. That's 1.3 mil in cap on a 2.8 mil budget spent on 4 players

[ensco]

I don't get this. JDG@300k might as well be another DP cap wise. Imagine trying to put together a team with 3 DPs and JDG at 300k. That's 1.3 mil in cap on a 2.8 mil budget spent on 4 players

Yes. Even now we are having major problems. We probably don't now have enough cap space left to bring back all three of Plata, Eckersley and Avila, let alone bring in any new discovery signings. (Although it's too soon to be definitive, still many moving parts, eg I doubt that Cann or Marosevic will get anything close to what they got in 2011, and is Bouchiba really on the books for 2012?)

[Oldtimer]

Yes. Even now we are having major problems. We probably don't now have enough cap space left to bring back all three of Plata, Eckersley and Avila, let alone bring in any new discovery signings. (Although it's too soon to be definitive, still many moving parts, eg I doubt that Cann or Marosevic will get anything close to what they got in 2011, and is Bouchiba really on the books for 2012?)

It really depends on the individual deals.

There is also the "X" factor. If Frei gets sold overseas, there will likely be half a million in extra funds to be spent on players (amounts over that go to things like facilities).

[Yohan]

It really depends on the individual deals.

There is also the "X" factor. If Frei gets sold overseas, there will likely be half a million in extra funds to be spent on players (amounts over that go to things like facilities).
I hate relying on allocation money to keep salary under the cap. It's not good for building a team long term IMO

[Chris Wren]

I don't get this. JDG@300k might as well be another DP cap wise. Imagine trying to put together a team with 3 DPs and JDG at 300k. That's 1.3 mil in cap on a 2.8 mil budget spent on 4 players

3 DP's are going to eat a large chunk of the cap. After that you need talent to fill out the roster. They can't all be mediocre. Obviously it's tough, but if not JDG or a player of equal value in his role, then what?

We have allocation money, we need to use it. That's what it's there for. We have an opportunity now, it can't always be about building for the future.

Does anyone know when the current MLS deal ends? It has to be over the next couple of years. Surely with the addition of Vancouver, Portland, Montreal and Philadelphia and new stadiums in several cities the salary cap must be set to take a jump up.

[Yohan]

3 DP's are going to eat a large chunk of the cap. After that you need talent to fill out the roster. They can't all be mediocre. Obviously it's tough, but if not JDG or a player of equal value in his role, then what?

We have allocation money, we need to use it. That's what it's there for. We have an opportunity now, it can't always be about building for the future.
Allocation money doesn't spring like freebies. Teams that heavily relied on allocation money to reduce the cap has trouble maintaining their team, and can't keep players and have a big roster turnover rate.

What's the point of new direction and philosophy for TFC if the roster turnover rate is going to be as same as MoJo years?



Does anyone know when the current MLS deal ends? It has to be over the next couple of years. Surely with the addition of Vancouver, Portland, Montreal and Philadelphia and new stadiums in several cities the salary cap must be set to take a jump up.
It will end in 2015. Salary cap goes up by 5% every year.

[Oldtimer]

I hate relying on allocation money to keep salary under the cap. It's not good for building a team long term IMO

agreed... but it can get you over a short-term problem (JDG's DP money).

[Yohan]

agreed... but it can get you over a short-term problem (JDG's DP money).
I'd only support using allocation to go way over the cap space if TFC is going to make a cap run (with understanding that team is not going to be there next season)

[CSO_BBTB]

agreed... but it can get you over a short-term problem (JDG's DP money).

They could also buy out JDG's contract to address that problem. One player on a guaranteed deal can be bought out each off season without it counting against the salary cap for the upcoming season. I guess JDG did enough after the arrival of Koevermans and Frings to take that option off the agenda.

[Oldtimer]

They could also buy out JDG's contract to address that problem. One player on a guaranteed deal can be bought out each off season without it counting against the salary cap for the upcoming season. I guess JDG did enough after the arrival of Koevermans and Frings to take that option off the agenda.

I think that's the case. If he does well this year, he may get a contract extension at lower wages (maybe lower-end DP). He has the advantage of not taking up an international slot, which is rare for a DP.

A good holding midfielder is important in Winter's system.

[William]

What happens if TFC would sign 29 year old, former Dutch international Ugur Yildirim who is now trying to stay in shape training at the amateur level?I would say: Arie go get'm....

[Stryker]

They could also buy out JDG's contract to address that problem. One player on a guaranteed deal can be bought out each off season without it counting against the salary cap for the upcoming season. I guess JDG did enough after the arrival of Koevermans and Frings to take that option off the agenda.

I was certain JDG would be bought out this off season.
Sure he played alot better this year but I still don't think he is worth the DP slot he occupies. Especially considering we have Frings now.

[Oldtimer]

I was certain JDG would be bought out this off season.
Sure he played alot better this year but I still don't think he is worth the DP slot he occupies. Especially considering we have Frings now.

I'm wondering if MLS is giving a lot more allocation than the past for the CCL spot (wanting to make waves in the continental championship). It would make sense, as LA also seems over their cap.

[mastermixer]

Considering you get allocation money for not making the playoffs and champions league I'd say we got quite a bit.

[prizby]

I was certain JDG would be bought out this off season.
Sure he played alot better this year but I still don't think he is worth the DP slot he occupies. Especially considering we have Frings now.

he performed well in the last half, and there isn't necessarily a dp that can step in (probably until the summer). Want to have a strong team for CCL

[Oldtimer]

Considering you get allocation money for not making the playoffs and champions league I'd say we got quite a bit.

The "you suck" allocation was $220k (I think) last year. I think we must be getting $440k more.

It could be that MLS has given each team a "general allocation" (they did this already once before) of $220k PLUS we get a CCL allocation of $220k.

Either that, or they are giving a double allocation for the CCL.

This is based on the rumours that we have signed Caicedo.

[Canary10]

The MLS cap is fairly "soft" cap. Teams seem to be able to spend more if MLS thinks it's in the league interest. Having Toronto make the playoffs is in the league interest. Wouldn't be surprised if they gave some tacit approval to go over a bit.

Wonder if the Caicedo and Aceval transfers might finally come down to earth at some point this week.

[Pookie]

^ I blogged about this "soft cap" on sportsnet.ca last week.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/fanfuel/2012/01/11/mls_salary_cap/

Any way you look at it, if there is a business reason to exceed the cap, there really is no cap.

[Canary10]

^ Ha, I had your blog in mind when I wrote that post. Funny. Good article!

[mowe]

^ I blogged about this "soft cap" on sportsnet.ca last week.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/fanfuel/2012/01/11/mls_salary_cap/

Any way you look at it, if there is a business reason to exceed the cap, there really is no cap.

Just a note, it's definitely the guaranteed compensation figure that counts against the cap. On top of this players can receive performance-based incentives but that wouldn't count against the cap.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Didn't see this mentioned

Toronto Waives Yourassowsky

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/01/toronto-waives-yourassowsky

[Detroit_TFC]

^HEY that is a big deal - that opens a int'l slot. Maybe we will sign Ivo.

[Yohan]

I won't miss his diving antics, or needlessly getting sent off, but he did score an important goal for Voyageur Cup win last year. Funny how players that a lot of people hate seems to score clutch goals in Voyageurs Cup

[Bdking2]

I just adjusted everything(cap space est., international spots, etc.) for the removal of Yourassowski.

I haven't added any of the drafted players as they aren't officially signed as of this point but was thinking of adding a section for them below the actual roster. What does everyone think?

[Bdking2]

Or maybe when camp starts next week. I'll add a section for players in camp?? Let me know.

[elironico]

^HEY that is a big deal - that opens a int'l slot. Maybe we will sign Ivo.

Random question just because you're the one to mention Ivo and his presumed foreignness...do you know that for sure? His parents have lived in the States for a long time, presently in Ft. Worth, his elder brother was born in NJ, Arthur went to HS in Ft. worth...and his five fantasy dinner guests are: Kaka, Pele, Messi, Tiger Woods and......Brendan Morrow? Pretty NA guy, must have a green card? Summer job during HS, or whatever? Just asking...

[prizby]

^HEY that is a big deal - that opens a int'l slot. Maybe we will sign Ivo.

more like, we have 10 spots, 7 guys signed, add aceval, caicedo, and ecks; thats 10...yourassowsky was the odd man out

[Detroit_TFC]

Random question just because you're the one to mention Ivo and his presumed foreignness...do you know that for sure? His parents have lived in the States for a long time, presently in Ft. Worth, his elder brother was born in NJ, Arthur went to HS in Ft. worth...and his five fantasy dinner guests are: Kaka, Pele, Messi, Tiger Woods and......Brendan Morrow? Pretty NA guy, must have a green card? Summer job during HS, or whatever? Just asking...

No, I don't know his status for certain. The draft chit chat didn't confirm one way or the other.

Edit:
I asked Asif and he didn't know for sure. Maybe one of the journos will find out on media day.

[gracos]

I would not be shocked to see Bouchiba be released by the end of the summer window if not sooner, I know we havent seen much of him, but unless he pulls out all the stops see him probably being released by then or sooner due to his international status

[Brooker]

I won't miss his diving antics, or needlessly getting sent off, but he did score an important goal for Voyageur Cup win last year. Funny how players that a lot of people hate seems to score clutch goals in Voyageurs Cup

I remember Kevin Harmse inside the first... what... 3 minutes against Vancouver? lol :eek6:

[Yohan]

I remember Kevin Harmse inside the first... what... 3 minutes against Vancouver? lol :eek6:
or Chad Barrett wonder volley vs Mtl at BMO Field (still the most awesome goal I've seen live)

[Bdking2]

Just updated the first post to Reflect Iro and Marosevic leaving.

Was also considering removing Lindsay because I'm pretty sure I read that, Winter said he would be out for the entire season again. And doesn't that mean he doesn't take up roster space? Can anyone confirm this?

[mowe]

Just updated the first post to Reflect Iro and Marosevic leaving.

Was also considering removing Lindsay because I'm pretty sure I read that, Winter said he would be out for the entire season again. And doesn't that mean he doesn't take up roster space? Can anyone confirm this?

If Lindsay is out for the year it would free up a roster spot. Cap space wouldn't be affected because he's homegrown and doesn't count against the cap anyway. Plus the spot freed up would be an off-budget spot, meaning minimum salary or homegrown only.

Looking at the current situation TFC has 5 full roster spots (3 when the Aceval/Caicedo signings are confirmed) and 2 or 3 spots for academy players and supplemental draft picks. International spots look like they're all used up with Aceval/Caicedo.

For our 7 draft picks, I'm thinking Silva and Maund get signed and maybe Mykell Bates as an off-budget player. That leaves 1 full roster spot for a domestic player (we'll see if the team uses it before the season) and 1 or 2 off-budget spots for academy players (depending on the Lindsay situation). Another full spot could be freed up if the team declined its option on Ty Harden (which I would) but if they did I think we would have heard about it already.

In any case, looks like our team is good to go :).

[KGH]

Another full spot could be freed up if the team declined its option on Ty Harden (which I would) but if they did I think we would have heard about it already.


My .02

This would be a massive error in my opinion. Our CB issue still is not resolved. Cann and Williams are coming off very serious knee issues. Once someone blows their knee the chances of it happening again are higher. Plus I image they'll both be a step slower and a tad more tentative now. That leaves Henry and Harden as our only fit CB's that are familiar with the system. Even if the these two SA guys actually come in and can be successful it's been suggested that one will compete at LB with Morgan. And that being said we don't currently have a backup LB as it stands.

Plus during the last 1/4 of the year Harden didn't actually play that bad. An all-star he was not but not the worst CB out there. I honestly believe he has the potential to be an above average CB if he plays with way more confidence and works on his game.

[prizby]

i'd move plata into the top 20 paid...he'll def be making more than 42k and be considered one of our top 20

[Bdking2]

i'd move plata into the top 20 paid...he'll def be making more than 42k and be considered one of our top 20

I moved Plata up as per your request.

Also added a section for Draft Picks. I'll try to keep track of who shows up to camp. So keep me posted and I'll adjust it as needed.

[Oldtimer]

Plus during the last 1/4 of the year Harden didn't actually play that bad. An all-star he was not but not the worst CB out there. I honestly believe he has the potential to be an above average CB if he plays with way more confidence and works on his game.

Agreed. Unlike some players that we've had, harden actually has a lot of potential. A number of MLS coaches seem to like him, as does Winter. There must be something there.

[Shway]

Plus during the last 1/4 of the year Harden didn't actually play that bad. An all-star he was not but not the worst CB out there. I honestly believe he has the potential to be an above average CB if he plays with way more confidence and works on his game.

You know i thought the same thing about Iro, but what your asking is something they're already doing, but sometimes you can max out on your ability

[Yohan]

Agreed. Unlike some players that we've had, harden actually has a lot of potential. A number of MLS coaches seem to like him, as does Winter. There must be something there.
Harden works his butt off and has no attitude. Even with a lot of flak he got, he kept his head down and work harder. You can't help to like those kind of players.

Though you gotta wonder how much more can you teach a 26yr old defender.

[Wooster_TFC]

Harden works his butt off and has no attitude. Even with a lot of flak he got, he kept his head down and work harder. You can't help to like those kind of players.

Though you gotta wonder how much more can you teach a 26yr old defender.

He's on 42k a year too. Sadly the case in MLS is that you need those sorts of players, regardless of age.

[starter]

He's on 42k a year too. Sadly the case in MLS is that you need those sorts of players, regardless of age.

He is listed as 87K on the page 1.

[brad]

Harden works his butt off and has no attitude. Even with a lot of flak he got, he kept his head down and work harder. You can't help to like those kind of players.

Though you gotta wonder how much more can you teach a 26yr old defender.

Perfect for a depth player in this league.

[Bdking2]

He's on 42k a year too. Sadly the case in MLS is that you need those sorts of players, regardless of age.


He is listed as 87K on the page 1.

I double checked the Major League Soccer Players Union page and realized I made a mistake copying the salary. I had Harden listed at $87,364 but he is actually listed at $73,667.

[dantdot]

I moved Plata up as per your request.

Also added a section for Draft Picks. I'll try to keep track of who shows up to camp. So keep me posted and I'll adjust it as needed.

Maund and Ivo are also in Toronto via twitter. Not sure about the others yet.

Edit: Oh, yeah. Junior Burgos is here, too. 2011 Pick.

[TFCwestcan]

What was the story about Junior Burgos last year, and well do we need another mid fielder in camp? Just asking.

[dantdot]

What was the story about Junior Burgos last year, and well do we need another mid fielder in camp? Just asking.

I think he had visa issues last year. I'm at a loss as to why he's here. Maybe we're under obligation to trial him, I don't know.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

prob not obligation but mariner thinks theres somehting to him so they will trial him

[prizby]

What was the story about Junior Burgos last year, and well do we need another mid fielder in camp? Just asking.

didn't have a green card...got a green card in september or october, 2011...doesn't count as an international

give him a trial cuz we own his rights and we drafted him cuz winter saw something...we'll see what happens

[Bdking2]

Well Eckersley has resigned with club officially. Here's to hoping we get some other news today as well.

[Canary_canuck]

I see Eckersley " has left Turf Moor by mutual consent". After last season's uncertainty with respect to this player this is great news. He is hard-working and dependable and I suspect a positive force in the dressing room. Best of luck this season Ecks!:canada:

[prizby]

Ecks in now...Caicedo too...he'll (actually both) be a top 20 salary i assume plus an international spot

[mcolvy]

Not to be a prick, but just a little change.

De Klerk made a comment about Caicedo playing the #3 which is RCB. And Cann is a lefty, whom is beat featured at the #4, LCB.... Just a heads up.

[prizby]

Not to be a prick, but just a little change.

De Klerk made a comment about Caicedo playing the #3 which is RCB. And Cann is a lefty, whom is beat featured at the #4, LCB.... Just a heads up.

cann plays the lcb position, correct...but he's right footed

[Bdking2]

I switched Cann and Caicedo around so they should be right now. Anyone else look out of place?

[prizby]

I switched Cann and Caicedo around so they should be right now. Anyone else look out of place?

first off, great job keeping it updated...and Thanks!

i think its safe to assume that Avila's contract has been renogotiated and Silva and Maund can be added to list.

Looking at last years draft, AJ Soares was picked 6th (first non GA player) and he got a base of $42,000 with $82,000 guaranteed compensation, so I suspect Silva would be in the $90,000 range...while Rich Balchan was selected 12th overall and was a defender and he got $42,000 base salary with his guaranteed compensation at $58,875, so I'd expect Maund to be around $60,000 (in short, both would be currently in the top 20 salaries)

I might also make an adjustment on Eckersley (mark him as an unknown), as he is surely going to be getting a significant raise).



(I wouldn't add this yet) The 20th player seems likely to be Aceval meaning we probably have 13 players at around the right salary with 7 players unknown...taking Ecks off, we would then have $750,000 of cap room for the final 7 players...if i were to guess:

Raises for the other 13 players: $100,000
Eckersley: $200,000
Plata: $100,000
Silva: $90,000
Caicedo: $120,000
Aceval: $120,000
Maund: $60,000
Lambe: $80,000

which is about $870,000 or $120,000 over the cap...assuming we have some allocation left ($70,000 if we leave roster spot 29 and 30 empty), we can still sign 1 or 2 at minimum (or academy players) and we are looking in pretty good shape here.

[Soccerpro]

200k for Ecks is overpaying for a RB in MLS.

[prizby]

pretty sure someone in the media said jordan hamilton from the academy in camp

[Island Man]

pretty sure someone in the media said jordan hamilton from the academy in camp

He is. Full list of players - http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/01/toronto-takes-41-preseason

[prizby]

200k for Ecks is overpaying for a RB in MLS.

well what do you think Ecks is going to be paid after getting around 5,000 pounds a week from Burnley?

[Soccerpro]

well what do you think Ecks is going to be paid after getting around 5,000 pounds a week from Burnley?

I have no idea. I'm not part of TFC management.

[prizby]

I have no idea. I'm not part of TFC management.

think about it if your ecks...you going to take $80,000 US after making 260,000 pounds

[PopePouri]

think about it if your ecks...you going to take $80,000 US after making 260,000 pounds

Maybe money's not a motivating factor for Ecks.

[prizby]

Maybe money's not a motivating factor for Ecks.

which is why he is willing to take a pay cut...but not a pay cut of over 80%

[PopePouri]

which is why he is willing to take a pay cut...but not a pay cut of over 80%

It's all speculation at the moment.

[prizby]

It's all speculation at the moment.

yeah which is why i came up with a reasonable number that wouldn't be insulting to Ecks

[Bdking2]

Prizby

I changed Eckersley's salary to unknown as per your above suggestion, seemed like the right thing to do. While I agree that Silva and Maund (and Aceval for that matter)will probably end up being signed I would prefer to wait until TFC has made the announcements officially.

I have also added all the guys in camp as per the article from TFC over the weekend.

[Wooster_TFC]

The real problem with putting a depth chart down is that we have several players who can be slotted into multiple positions. While our depth looks weak on the left when you do a "real" depth chart (and not one based on simply best position) we are actually reasonably well covered assuming that Aceval is signed, and that Cann is ready to go at the start of the MLS season.

As prizby said, I think it's safe to assume that Silva and Maund will be signed.

GK

Frei
Kocic

RB

Eckersley
Hall
(Henry)
(Stinson)

CB

Caicedo
Aceval
Cann
Williams
Harden
Henry
Maund
(Frings)

LB

Morgan
(Aceval)
(Hall)
(Eckersley)
(Harden)

CM/DM

Frings
DeGuzman
Bouchiba
Dunfield
Stinson

AM

Avila
Silva
Cordon
(Johnson)
(Soolsma)
(Plata)

LW

Plata
Johnson
Lambe
(Soolsma)
(Aceval)

RW

Soolsma
(Lambe)
(Johnson)
(Plata)
(Makubuya)

CF

Koevermans
Makubuya
(Johnson)
(Soolsma)

So really, it looks like we might need some more depth in the MF since we have to pick 3 out of essentially 8 guys every game (assuming Johnson, Soolsma and Plata play primarily as forwards), and potentially some LB depth (although Aceval is supposed to be natural at both CB and LB).

Other than that, I think our depth is looking quite good. Maybe get a "real" backup CF (ala Vukovic).

[prizby]

Prizby

I changed Eckersley's salary to unknown as per your above suggestion, seemed like the right thing to do. While I agree that Silva and Maund (and Aceval for that matter)will probably end up being signed I would prefer to wait until TFC has made the announcements officially.

I have also added all the guys in camp as per the article from TFC over the weekend.

aceval now confirmed

[Bdking2]

aceval now confirmed

He has been added.

[Whoop]

As per Kurt Larson.



KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/#%21/KurtLarSUN) K Larson



As per club officials, Silva and Maund are under contract, bringing TFC's active roster to 26 players. #TorontoFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TorontoFC) #TFC (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TFC) #MLS (https://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23MLS)

[Bdking2]

Added Silva and Maund to the top 20 (for now) as per Kurt Larson.

Was wondering if they would both be in the top 20 roster spots, Kocic played well for us last year and it just seems wrong he is not in the top 20??

EDIT: Also which defensive spot should I put Maund into? RCB? LCB?

[prizby]

Added Silva and Maund to the top 20 (for now) as per Kurt Larson.

Was wondering if they would both be in the top 20 roster spots, Kocic played well for us last year and it just seems wrong he is not in the top 20??

EDIT: Also which defensive spot should I put Maund into? RCB? LCB?

kocic was on min salary with option year...either him or dicoy will be the 21st...maybe maund

[Bdking2]

I just removed Blake, Ivo, Mazullo and Bates have been removed from the guys in camp list as TFC just announced that they have been cut.

Mike Green is the only Supplemental Draft pick left in Camp.

[ag futbol]

yeah which is why i came up with a reasonable number that wouldn't be insulting to Ecks
That's not really the dynamic of this though. It's unlikely given his rep in the UK he still demands that type of scratch.

What he can get here has to be a compromise and fit within TFC resources. It can't be a function of the past and wage rates in the most expensive market in the world

[prizby]

That's not really the dynamic of this though. It's unlikely given his rep in the UK he still demands that type of scratch.

What he can get here has to be a compromise and fit within TFC resources. It can't be a function of the past and wage rates in the most expensive market in the world

and the number i produced does fit

[mcolvy]

Alright so word from camp is some boys were cut, with a few others already being informed of their fate — there for some experience.

26 Roster spots r taken. and looks like the last 2 of the 30 will be left open for some allocation money. I do see the 27 and 28 potentially taken.
Vukovic and Burgos might get those slots.

Burgos was a supplemental draft pick who just recently got his green card. Apparently he was training with the team a lot last year and Winter likes him on the wing.
Vukovic could be the one and only Academy graduate this year. The only thing holding back is the fact that we have no room to make moves. Trades, or summer transfers.
But I guess we could easily loan out a guy to NASL who's not getting minutes.
I do see Vukovic as a more pure target #9 and Burgos as depth at the wing position.

[prizby]

Alright so word from camp is some boys were cut, with a few others already being informed of their fate — there for some experience.

26 Roster spots r taken. and looks like the last 2 of the 30 will be left open for some allocation money. I do see the 27 and 28 potentially taken.
Vukovic and Burgos might get those slots.

Burgos was a supplemental draft pick who just recently got his green card. Apparently he was training with the team a lot last year and Winter likes him on the wing.
Vukovic could be the one and only Academy graduate this year. The only thing holding back is the fact that we have no room to make moves. Trades, or summer transfers.
But I guess we could easily loan out a guy to NASL who's not getting minutes.
I do see Vukovic as a more pure target #9 and Burgos as depth at the wing position.

room doesn't matter when your signing for roster spot 21+...only the top 20 salaries count against the cap

[Ossington Mental Youth]

was under the impression that academy guys dont count against the cap and we have a few spots open to academy players on the roster

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i dont doubt they might save two spots for mid season tho

[Soccerpro]

I believe once our CB's are all healthy, Winter will show 2 the door which will free up space and salary. We have too many right now, only due to injures.

[Chevy]

Don't forget we need to leave one roster spot open in the event Paul Dikov finally agrees to terms.

[prizby]

was under the impression that academy guys dont count against the cap and we have a few spots open to academy players on the roster

if their salary isn't one of the top 20 or if they are like bryce alderson and sign a GA contract

[JuliquE]

Don't forget we need to leave one roster spot open in the event Paul Dikov finally agrees to terms.
The WASP!

Ahhh.. some good lulz.

[prizby]

isn't dickov the manager at oldham

[Ossington Mental Youth]

And Soon To Be 4th Dp!

[mcolvy]

was under the impression that academy guys dont count against the cap and we have a few spots open to academy players on the roster

I think you guys took this the wrong way. I mean roster spots not salary space. Right now Id say we safely have 2 spots we can fill, so we leave the last 2 open, which do not need to be filled. These two could be taken by academy/draft picks.

So then when the summer transfer happens then what? we would have to subtract before we add.
But then again like I said— we could just easily loan out a player.

[CSO_BBTB]

By the sounds of things in interviews there is a serious question as to whether Dicoy Williams will ever recover from his injury so think that is one roster spot that could be available for the summer window. Right now I think there is a need for extra depth where a target man striker and a left sided defender is concerned and hope they have about $100k left in cap space/allocation to deal with that.

[MarkoftheDrink]

What interviews are you referring to? Link?

[Bdking2]

I don't know but the latest Winter interview on TFC TV he talks about 5-6 weeks for Cann and Williams.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?id=3854

[KGH]

I don't know but the latest Winter interview on TFC TV he talks about 5-6 weeks for Cann and Williams.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?id=3854


I think he's saying 5-6 weeks before they're ready for practise. and then a few more weeks to get back into match fitness. I'd imagine we'll start to see Cann sub in mid 2nd half in mid april. I don't think Williams is gonna ever play this year and likely will be released or traded for the summer window.

[Kaz]

I think he's saying 5-6 weeks before they're ready for practise. and then a few more weeks to get back into match fitness. I'd imagine we'll start to see Cann sub in mid 2nd half in mid april. I don't think Williams is gonna ever play this year and likely will be released or traded for the summer window.

Williams isn't that much further behind then Cann, at least I haven't read anything that suggests that... he may lose a good part of this season, and may be released, but it was a serious injury, on the pitch...

It's not like Lindsey who most likely will be out most of this year if not all of this year too... and is unlikely to ever play at this level again.

[Ageroo]

Williams isn't that much further behind then Cann, at least I haven't read anything that suggests that... he may lose a good part of this season, and may be released, but it was a serious injury, on the pitch...

Well if I remember correctly from Williams' twitter account....he got the keys to his condo last week or somerthing....so if he is going to be released it isn't anytime soon. I am assuming he got some assurances from management in regards to waiting on him.

[CSO_BBTB]

Doing the right thing with injured players is morally the right thing to do but in corporate terms where morality isn't really the guiding principle the rationale would probably be that it helps to build the solid reputation on the sport's grapevine that will attract future signing targets.

What I have noticed over the past few months is a reasonably consistent upbeat tone on Cann being back in 2012 that has been absent where Decoy Williams is concerned. It has been a few months since there has been any explicitly pessimistic comment in that regard, however, so hopefully everything will work out for the best where both players are concerned.

[Bdking2]

I removed Brandon John and Tristan Jackman as they didn't travel with the team to Orlando.

Williams and Lindsay didn't travel either due to long term injuries. Should be interesting to see if we get any trialists at all. Did I hear we were getting 2 or have I made that up in my mind??

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah i heard that too, two local boys (whatever that means) coming to trial

[mcolvy]

According to Larsson from the Sun (good source)Mariner has admitted to having two domestic players waiting in Orlando. By that it means they don't take up international slots.

[Bdking2]

So they announced 2 midfield trialists Moises Orozco & Kevin Huezo have joined TFC in Orlando. Both played with Thomas Rongen at the USA U-20 level.

[elironico]

The 2012 roster rules have been posted.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules

[mowe]

Rules seem more clearer than last year.

As expected, the cap hit for DP's (over 23) has gone up to $350k. The minimum salary for roster spots 1-24 is now $44k and for 25-30 is now $33,750.

[rocker]

interesting that they've renamed DPs under 20 as a roster category.... would be a good band name: The Young DPs

[Oldtimer]

The 2012 roster rules have been posted.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules

Most interesting is the second point under allocation money:


the transfer of a player to a club outside of MLS for value;This seems specially worded in order to be able to give the Galaxy or NYRB money for players temporarily transferred on a loan deal. We'll call this the not the "Beckham rule" (also created for the Galaxy), but rather "give the Galaxy cash so they can win the treble rule."

At least this part is straightforward.

[mowe]

Most interesting is the second point under allocation money:

This seems specially worded in order to be able to give the Galaxy or NYRB money for players temporarily transferred on a loan deal. We'll call this the not the "Beckham rule" (also created for the Galaxy), but rather "give the Galaxy cash so they can win the treble rule."

At least this part is straightforward.

Your insistence in clinging to your tin foil hat is admirable, but that rule has always been worded like that.

But hey, who am I to get in the way of your delusions. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Bdking2]

I've Adjusted the Cap, DP salaries, and the off budget players to reflect the new MLS Roster Rules.

[prizby]

Most interesting is the second point under allocation money:

This seems specially worded in order to be able to give the Galaxy or NYRB money for players temporarily transferred on a loan deal. We'll call this the not the "Beckham rule" (also created for the Galaxy), but rather "give the Galaxy cash so they can win the treble rule."

At least this part is straightforward.

it says the transfer...not the loan :p

[Oldtimer]

Your insistence in clinging to your tin foil hat is admirable, but that rule has always been worded like that.

But hey, who am I to get in the way of your delusions. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

It's been reported that they got cap space for loaning out their players. What's delusional about that?

[prizby]

looks like bouchiba is gone...

[CSO_BBTB]

^^....based on what? No huge shock I think so not saying you are wrong but would be interested in seeing the source.

Edit: found it.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/02/bouchiba-waived-toronto

[Nuvinho]

one international spot and some more cap room.

[prizby]

^^....based on what? No huge shock I think so not saying you are wrong but would be interested in seeing the source.

Edit: found it.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2012/02/bouchiba-waived-toronto

yeah sorry...was going off luke wileman's twitter

[Bdking2]

I'll update the opening post when I get to a PC. Can't really do it from my phone. Can't say I'll miss him, never saw him play. So I'm happy with the cap space and international roster spot.

[Gallade]

hope the int'l spot is the reason for the move.

[Bdking2]

Updated the opening post. Would be nice if they had some moves in the works.

[mcolvy]

I feel like the team will look to bring in a loan. Did a few last season and what not and helped us out a ton. That could use the Int. slot for the time being and look to explore another option. I can't wait till JDG is off the books..

[CSO_BBTB]

My guess would be that they are not confident in Caiceido being the answer at the back and want to be able to sign a plan B option if he isn't able to adjust to the MLS way of doing things.

[Dub Narcotic]

I was shocked to see how much cap space the team has. Should be able to bring in at least one quality attacker.

[Yohan]

I was shocked to see how much cap space the team has. Should be able to bring in at least one quality attacker.
looks like base salary was only used for calculation. real cap hit is somewhere between base salary and guaranteed compensation (which nobody really knows...)

Still, lots of cap room is good

[Bdking2]

looks like base salary was only used for calculation. real cap hit is somewhere between base salary and guaranteed compensation (which nobody really knows...)

Still, lots of cap room is good

I actually used the guaranteed compensation listed on the players union website. The link is located in the first post.
But there are a few holes in salaries because of the new signings and new contracts.

[prizby]

should point out we had Logan Emroy on trial

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Emory

him and burgos were both training with tfc at the dome this week

[Ossington Mental Youth]

caiceido is gone now.

[__wowza]

can someone post the tweet? i dont get twitter at work.

[Bdking2]

I added Logan Emory as a trialist and removed Caicedo from the roster.

Hopefully we bring in another defender, we have the space and international spots. I would really like to see them pick up a really nice defender.

[elironico]

Emory has tweeted his PR teammate that he'll be signing here.

[iy12l]

Logan Emory has shown in pre-season that he is comfortable with the ball at his feet, something that is rare to find. We should really sign him!

[Canary10]

^ Yup, sounds like he's signed based on his tweets. I didn't see him play that game against Vancouver but he seems to have made a good impression.

[prizby]

burgos tweeted he is looking for a loft in toronto

[Red CB Toronto]

burgos tweeted he is looking for a loft in toronto

Burgos I think would be an off budget player as their are now five spots open on the roster. They could also sign a sixth as Lindsay is out with a long term injury. I am a little surprised none of the academy kids have been signed yet as Mariner talked about a third goalie among some of their other home growns.

[CSO_BBTB]

Were the academy kids not told up front that most of them were there for the experience not because they were close to being signed?

[Bdking2]

Emroy was signed. So he has been added to the roster.

[Bdking2]

Efrain Burgos Jr. has signed with the club as per Toronto FC. I will add him to the roster.

[prizby]

huezo is now trailing at chivas...orozco went back to tigres in mexico

[Bdking2]

Just added Roberts to the roster as per Toronto FC that he has signed with the club. No word the Frei has been moved to the Long Term Injury list but I'm thinking that will/has happened already/soon.

[Yohan]

Just added Roberts to the roster as per Toronto FC that he has signed with the club. No word the Frei has been moved to the Long Term Injury list but I'm thinking that will/has happened already/soon.
it probably happened once it was known that Frei is out long term

[KGH]

So here Is the mid year question...with Cann back and Williams and Hall returning soon who do we cut mid year to bring someone in at the transfer window?

My thoughts would be cut Hall and Harden to free up about $200k of annual salary room. The logic is that henry, Maund, and Williams can all back up Cann and Emory (or Aceval). We've seen Henry and Stinson play RB while Aceval can play left back if needed.

We still have an international spot and there has to be someone that can be brought in for $200k to play AM. With a team option to make hem a DP with DP salary next season if they workout.

[Oldtimer]

Under the new CBA, you have to pay more experienced players like Harden until year-end, unless you trade him, so while you get a roster space, you get no cap relief.

[prizby]

So here Is the mid year question...with Cann back and Williams and Hall returning soon who do we cut mid year to bring someone in at the transfer window?

My thoughts would be cut Hall and Harden to free up about $200k of annual salary room. The logic is that henry, Maund, and Williams can all back up Cann and Emory (or Aceval). We've seen Henry and Stinson play RB while Aceval can play left back if needed.

We still have an international spot and there has to be someone that can be brought in for $200k to play AM. With a team option to make hem a DP with DP salary next season if they workout.

last time i checked combined they don't make 200k and after half a year, you got to cut that number in half

[KGH]

Not sure when the last time you checked was but if you go to page 1 of this thread you will see that Hall made $129,000 and Harden made $73k last year. My math skils have been challenged before but I think that adds up to at least $200k in annual salary.

[Pookie]

It still amuses me that we find time to talk about saving a few bucks against the MLS Salary Cap when the mysterious and magical "allocation money"... particularly in markets with new stadiums and massive TV audiences... makes the cap itself somewhat of a moot point. Seems to me that as long as the league owns a share of every team and allocation money is made available for "exceptional circumstances" by the league and this money can be used to pay down salaries to count against a cap, I wouldn't worry so much about fitting players under a cap. LA doesn't. NY doesn't. And in May when the average MLS salary was about $3.3M against a cap somewhere around $2.7M, many owner-operators of MLS teams don't either.

[Ajax TFC]

cut Hall? the kid's been injured since we got him (herrrrnia). If he comes back from injury and he sucks, then talk about cutting him, but at least give him a chance first.

[KGH]

For his salary he should be one of our starting 11 not a backup. I have nothing against the kid I just don't know whos spot he takes on the back line. Outside of our DPs he was the 5th highest paid player on the team using last years salaries.

[DoubleUp]

cut Hall? the kid's been injured since we got him (herrrrnia). If he comes back from injury and he sucks, then talk about cutting him, but at least give him a chance first.

I agree! Also to my knowledge Hall is not only defender but a midfielder aswell.

[prizby]

Not sure when the last time you checked was but if you go to page 1 of this thread you will see that Hall made $129,000 and Harden made $73k last year. My math skils have been challenged before but I think that adds up to at least $200k in annual salary.

that was with his GA contract...he graduated GA...still it doesn't relieve 200k in cap space when you have had them for half a year

[ag futbol]

^ There's no difference (unless you're talking DP rule economics) because the salaries are pro-rated.

A 200k contract for half a year is 100k. We'd have the same proportionate amount of cap space.

[jloome]

I agree! Also to my knowledge Hall is not only defender but a midfielder aswell.

Did you see him in NY. I wouldn't credit him with either. Definitely backup only material. Good jets, that's about it.

[Dreadlocks]

The Sun has the TFC salaries posted...

Plata @ 50K?

http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/

[Carts]

The Sun has the TFC salaries posted...

Plata @ 50K?

http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/


Dear God our salaries are out of wack...!!!

Frings & JDG at basically the same salary...
Our starting keeper at $44,000 a season...

[Bdking2]

I'll be updating the first post in a moment.

EDIT
Changes to the first post have been done. Updating it with the latest salary information from the players union website.

[Bdking2]

Eckersley's guaranteed salary is listed at $390,000. So it must have been paid down with allocation right?? I have listed it in the first post as the maximum cap hit of $350,000

[nlsanand]

Eckersley's guaranteed salary is listed at $390,000. So it must have been paid down with allocation right?? I have listed it in the first post as the maximum cap hit of $350,000 Hey D...I mean BD King, quality thread. Thanks for the info!

[Bdking2]

Burgos has been released so I will remove him from the roster list. Hopefully these Nesta rumours are true, but we can only wait and see.

[prizby]

i believe academy grads are exempt from the salary cap

[Bdking2]

i believe academy grads are exempt from the salary cap

So should I move Henry into the Off Budget Players section??

[prizby]

So should I move Henry into the Off Budget Players section??

that would be my take on it...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules


Clubs may sign up to two Homegrown Players contracts above the minimum salary and similar to Generation adidas player contract amounts.

[Bdking2]

Prizby,

I reread the rules and agree. I moved Henry to the off budget players and moved Frei to disabled list. This currently leaves roster spots 19-20 free. Having them free still uses up a "minimum salary budget charge" which I wrote in at $33,750. If Plata does get loaned out in the next day or two, a roster spot has to be filled. Unless we make a new signing, I was thinking Emroy would move to the 18 spot?? What do you think?

[SiguenzaFC]

Toronto FC needs a Center Back! I've been scouting and the best bang for the buck is Austin Berry. He earns $44,000 base salary, and his stats place him as a contender for a spot on the All Star team bench. 2 Goals scored, only 1 yellow card, 65 th on the Castrol rankings. He is 6'2", very mobile for his height, and is only 23 years old. We should be trading for this guy, the problem is the league has already noticed so we wouldn't be the only team vying for his services. I would trade fringe players, a late draft pick and cash for him.

[Canary10]

Toronto FC needs a Center Back! I've been scouting and the best bang for the buck is Austin Berry. He earns $44,000 base salary, and his stats place him as a contender for a spot on the All Star team bench. 2 Goals scored, only 1 yellow card, 65 th on the Castrol rankings. He is 6'2", very mobile for his height, and is only 23 years old. We should be trading for this guy, the problem is the league has already noticed so we wouldn't be the only team vying for his services. I would trade fringe players, a late draft pick and cash for him.

Ha! He was available in the draft this year. We could have had him for free if we wanted him.

[SiguenzaFC]

Ha! He was available in the draft this year. We could have had him for free if we wanted him.

He was the 9th pick, along with Jean Baptiste, they were the two premier defenders in the draft. TFC picked Aaron Maund 12th, who was the 4th defender picked by then.

I am glad we missed out on Nesta... big contract, no pace, and language barrier. He is a better fit in Montreal.

I wonder if Houston would be open to dealing Hainault (150k) for Maund (44k) and Jeremy Hall (100k). They play him at right back, but he can play at CB. Houston has Hunter Freeman a good stat guy, and Sarkodie a fast and promising prospect at RB, and they would get another prospect in Maund and a faster version of Freeman in Hall.

Jakovic would be harder to get because DC expect him to partner with Brandon McDonald for the next 5 years, but not impossible. Those two are on VAN and MTL radar as they are Canadian, but we are TFC dammit we deserve the best!

[Yohan]

Hunter Freeman now plays for Houston.

Hainault ain't going nowhere, especially for a silly trade like Maund and Hall. Kinnear would have to drank a lot of stupid juice

[Bdking2]

I removed Soolsma as per him being released. As well moved Plata to a loan position. I assume at this point his salary still affects us but we can fill his roster spot??

[Bdking2]

I have removed de Guzman as per his trade and added Wiedeman. As I understand Wiedeman is Gen Adidas so his salary doesn't count towards our cap.

Also with Plata on a proper loan do we get to use his International Roster spot on someone else??

[narduch]

Also with Plata on a proper loan do we get to use his International Roster spot on someone else??

I believe so. We just don't get cap relief (unless MLS rules have changed recently).

[JonO]

These rules are too complicated. I thought that soolsma would still count toward the cap since it is after July 1

[JonO]

Depending on the loan agreement, i think we may get allocation (for plata)

[Bdking2]

I just moved Kovs to the DL list, freeing up his roster spot and international spot.

[ag futbol]

I think we should move Morgan over the the on-cap section. We don't know the amount of his deal yet, but from my understanding he now counts against the cap.

[Bdking2]

I think we should move Morgan over the the on-cap section. We don't know the amount of his deal yet, but from my understanding he now counts against the cap.

Good call. With his new deal he must count against the cap, I'll move him up.

[joeyjones]

Good call. With his new deal he must count against the cap, I'll move him up.

the new deal kicks in this season? not an extension?

[Bdking2]

Hassli has been added to the roster. Also corrected the International Roster spots.

[Bdking2]

Removed Aceval as per his mutual release from the team. His $199,087, will hopefully allow us to bring someone in, in the next couple of days.

[BayernTFC]

MLS player salaries as of Aug. 1, 2012 have been released: http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/August 1, 2012 Salary Information - By Club.pdf




TOR
Avila
Eric
M
125,000.00$
158,000.00$


TOR
Cann
Adrian
D
126,000.00$
134,750.00$


TOR
Cordon
Oscar
M
44,000.00$
44,000.00$


TOR
Dunfield
Terry
M
86,000.00$
86,000.00$


TOR
Eckersley
Richard
D
210,000.00$
390,000.00$


TOR
Frei
Stefan
GK
120,000.00$
175,000.00$


TOR
Frings
Torsten
M
2,000,000.00$
2,413,666.67$


TOR
Hall
Jeremy
M
100,000.00$
149,000.00$


TOR
Harden
Ty
D
90,000.00$
98,666.67$




TOR
Henry
Doneil
D
44,100.00$
45,100.00$


TOR
Johnson
Ryan
M
137,813.00$
137,813.00$


TOR
Kocic
Milos
GK
44,100.00$
44,100.00$




TOR
Koevermans
Danny
F
1,150,000.00$
1,563,323.33$


TOR
Lindsay
Nicholas
F
44,100.00$
45,100.00$




Too many characters for the whole list to fit in one post

[BayernTFC]

It's interesting to see Nick Soolsma's name still on the list:




TOR

Soolsma

Nick

M-F

110,000.00$

110,000.00$

[Pookie]

Eckersley's guaranteed salary is listed at $390,000. So it must have been paid down with allocation right?? I have listed it in the first post as the maximum cap hit of $350,000

The base salary is the one that counts.

[prizby]

The base salary is the one that counts.

if it was base salary, then wouldn't everyone's base salary be 44k with massive guaranteed comp.

[jazzy]

Hall.,...Cann,...and sorry Ecks way way too much,..for that much we shouldn't see so many errors to goals and more professionalism... .way overpaid.....Kocic must be pissed,....the kids HAVE to have a raise at least $60,000....don't no how they survive,..in this relatively expensive city

[Abou Sky]

These rules are too complicated. I thought that soolsma would still count toward the cap since it is after July 1

Soolsma will be on the books because he went out on waiver and wasnt picked up .

[Pookie]

if it was base salary, then wouldn't everyone's base salary be 44k with massive guaranteed comp.

I think you'll find that under the quirky rules of MLS, the league will pay for the base salary up to the league max and any and all bonuses are paid by the teams.

We see it with the DPs in that amounts above the max, be it base salary or bonuses are paid by the teams.

It's just an educated guess on my part but you are right. A team could load a contract with bonuses and circumvent the cap. Many have been speculating that is how LA has been doing it for years.

That said, if this is the way it is, there are some checks and balances in play.

Since the league oversees contracts, it has a vested interest in not circumventing its own rules. They are negotiating wages for all the players, there is an inherent interest in ensuring a fair pay scale. Overpay a rookie and then you set a precedent for all rookies that follow. You most certainly open yourself up to inflationary pressures and in a league that wants to control its costs, this would be counterproductive.

Since the bulk of the teams do not post an operating profit, it is less likely they will offer $ above the contracts. A $100k player, if signed by the league to a $90k contract would cost them $10k out of their own pocket. If the league sets the base at the minimum $40k, they are now going to pay $60k out of their own pocket.

No one really knows which number counts as MLS does not make a definitive statement. Based on what I have read from other writers around the league and talking to a few on the inside, this is my best guess as to how the pay scale works.