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denime
12-01-2011, 06:36 AM
Mornin'



TFC TV (http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp)




TFC 'confident' of keeping Plata, Eckersley (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/11/30/tfc_plata_eckersley/)


Winter's Work Continues (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/11/winters-work-continues)


MLS 2011 In Review: Toronto FC (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/11/mls-2011-review-toronto-fc)


Borman Eligible In Re-Entry Process (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/11/borman-eligible-re-entry-draft)






SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)


_

TOBOR !
12-01-2011, 08:00 AM
Transparency International Pulls Support From FIFA Anti-Corruption Program (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-01/transparency-international-pulls-support-from-fifa-anti-corruption-program.html)


Transparency International, an adviser to soccer’s governing body on anti-corruption reforms, has withdrawn its assistance because it doesn’t feel a special group tasked with creating reforms is “truly independent.”

Sylvia Schenk, senior adviser for sport, said the organization turned down an invitation to join FIFA’s outside governance committee because its chairman Mark Pieth is being paid by the soccer body and also after Pieth said he wouldn’t be looking at allegations of past wrongdoing.


Sepp and the FIFA Ex-Co losing credibilty at every turn.

pekduck
12-01-2011, 08:01 AM
morning d

pekduck
12-01-2011, 08:02 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/11/30/2011-review-qa-toronto-fcs-aron-winter

this is better than the one posted on torontofc.ca

scooter
12-01-2011, 08:27 AM
mornin d

Darlofletch
12-01-2011, 08:28 AM
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1094873--with-marlies-in-ahl-outdoor-classic-leafs-push-for-game-at-bmo-field

Leafs pushing a bmo field heritage classic again.

so what? the pipes will work for hockey in winter but not for soccer?


“We want to host the Canadian version — the Heritage Classic,” Burke said. “Even if it’s a bitterly cold day, there are enough venues around BMO Field such as the Ricoh Centre, the convention centre and underground parking to keep fans indoors until 10 minutes before game time.”

way to embrace the spirit of things there burke.

Oldtimer
12-01-2011, 08:37 AM
Very telling comments from Winter:


Winter: I came late. But I didn’t have a good roster. I saw a lot of games from the 2010 season for Toronto FC. I gave players three or four months. Maybe I should have done it earlier in the season to trade a lot of players, but July is when I did it. The players that I traded could not or were not fitting in the system. And maybe there were some players who were good but didn’t want to be part of the process that I started in January.That would have been my main criticism of Winter, if he had done the trades earlier, he might have saved the season. In retrospect he now suspects that he gave the old guys too many chances, and in so doing dug too deep of a hole. Of course Frings and Koevs couldn't come until the transfer window opened, but if he had pulled off more ties before that time (similar to what Arena did with LA when he rebuilt) maybe the season could have been saved.

ganzo_thebest
12-01-2011, 09:03 AM
Very telling comments from Winter:

That would have been my main criticism of Winter, if he had done the trades earlier, he might have saved the season. In retrospect he now suspects that he gave the old guys too many chances, and in so doing dug too deep of a hole. Of course Frings and Koevs couldn't come until the transfer window opened, but if he had pulled off more ties before that time (similar to what Arena did with LA when he rebuilt) maybe the season could have been saved.

I think he did the right choice at the right time......He probably felt that the old guys will eventually get the system, but sometimes it is a lot harder to teach an old dog new tricks....

mastermixer
12-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Here's what I think of a hockey coach thinking of playing hockey at BMO...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q2OfA7Firz0/TCEm-NFJ7yI/AAAAAAAAAAM/2JWrc8Jb66s/S1600-R/get+off+my+lawn.jpg

boban
12-01-2011, 09:39 AM
Very telling comments from Winter:

That would have been my main criticism of Winter, if he had done the trades earlier, he might have saved the season. In retrospect he now suspects that he gave the old guys too many chances, and in so doing dug too deep of a hole. Of course Frings and Koevs couldn't come until the transfer window opened, but if he had pulled off more ties before that time (similar to what Arena did with LA when he rebuilt) maybe the season could have been saved.
Hindsight is always 20-20 my friend.

T-boy
12-01-2011, 09:45 AM
Sounds slike keeping De Guzman on a DP contract might hamper TFC being able to sign both Plata and Eckersley, which is a real shame. I'd much prefer to see them both than DeGuzman. If it came down to it, would TFC buy out DeGuzman to keep both the other players?!

Auzzy
12-01-2011, 09:49 AM
Remember that there was already lots of "turnover fatigue" in TFC-land when Winter started. Most people (probably including most fans, players, management, etc.) were sick of five years of revolving doors, and were hoping that the majority of the players we had would work out, with some key additions & better coaching. Winter would have gotten even more flack if he had ditched a larger number of players early in the season -- and we would have blamed that of course if the moves didn't work out immediately. Plus a few players did stick and have turned out half decent -- there's a good chance that Winter/Mariner would have pulled the plug on the wrong ones if they had done it too hastily.

I think the bad delays were before that: not ditching Mo a year earlier; not hiring Klinsmann immediately after Mo & Preki were fired. (It was clear things were going south before that -- MLSE should have already had a plan B ready to go. I think they were only convinced to go for a big splash due to poor renewals & general unrest in the fall of 2010.) So then Winter/Mariner came in too late. IMO we were in worse shape than your average expansion team as a result.

T-boy
12-01-2011, 09:53 AM
there's a good chance that Winter/Mariner would have pulled the plug on the wrong ones if they had done it too hastily.



LaBrocca?! :s

denime
12-01-2011, 10:11 AM
LaBrocca?! :s


LaBrocca said in the interview pats summer that the TFC system did not workout for him,and that trade was good for both,TFC and him.He would not have a such a good season if he was still with TFC.

Canary10
12-01-2011, 10:19 AM
I rememeber after that Chivas game in LA before the Pumas game LaBrocca and Winter had a really long conversation on the pitch. Looked like mates. I don't think there's any ill will there at all.

Shway
12-01-2011, 10:48 AM
"to take care of the young players that we are going to add to the roster and to develop them very well "

....hmm i wonder if there will be more academy kids being promoted

Yohan
12-01-2011, 10:49 AM
Sounds slike keeping De Guzman on a DP contract might hamper TFC being able to sign both Plata and Eckersley, which is a real shame. I'd much prefer to see them both than DeGuzman. If it came down to it, would TFC buy out DeGuzman to keep both the other players?!
I think it depends on how much does resigning guys like Avila costs TFC in terms of cap space.

I don't think Plata is worth more than 125k, and Eck about 200k right now.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 10:49 AM
....hmm i wonder if there will be more academy kids being promoted
I think academy is going to be main source of depth for TFC... esp since most of them won't count against cap space

pekduck
12-01-2011, 10:49 AM
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/12/01/kick-newest-train-about-arrive-portland



As he continues to work on bringing back João Plata and Richard Eckersley to Toronto FC in 2012, TFC director of player development Paul Mariner also reveals his preference that the club play its CONCACAF Champions League quarterfinal against the LA Galaxy at BMO Field: “Personally, I'm a BMO Field guy. I think you use every single advantage you have.” (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/11/30/tfc_plata_eckersley/)

Auzzy
12-01-2011, 10:50 AM
I rememeber after that Chivas game in LA before the Pumas game LaBrocca and Winter had a really long conversation on the pitch. Looked like mates. I don't think there's any ill will there at all.

I saw that as well. I don't think Winter really wanted to trade LaBrocca; he knew he was a decent player. But midfield is one area where TFC has some depth, especially since (as we now know) Frings was already a definite possibility at the time of the LaBrocca trade. LaBrocca was therefore a player good enough for a decent trade -- and we know Alan Gordon did great in exchange, except for those injuries....

Waggy
12-01-2011, 11:00 AM
Question- if we buy Plata/Ecks, are we using allocation money?

JonO
12-01-2011, 11:06 AM
As I understand it, any transfer fee is added to the value of the contract and amortized over its duration. So, for example, if we have to pay $300,000 to buy out plata and then give him a 3 year contract at $100,000 per year, his annual hit to the cap would be $200,000 ($100,000 + $300,000/3). If this amount goes over the max salary, I think you can bring it down with allocation or you have to make him a DP (which some other teams have had to do)

T-boy
12-01-2011, 11:07 AM
I think it depends on how much does resigning guys like Avila costs TFC in terms of cap space.

I don't think Plata is worth more than 125k, and Eck about 200k right now.

Some people's perception of value is a little weird on this forum. Like, some people are saying that Vitti would be well worth in excess of 200k, yet others saying Plata is not worth anything more than 125k?

To me, Plata IS worth well in excess of 200k, he had an outstanding season last year!As Mariner is talking big money, I'm assuming the Plata contract would definitely be more than 200k. And Eckersley for sure would want more than 200k, as I'm sure he's already currectly getting this at Burnley. BUT, he could take a pay cut just so he can stay here, he seems to love the city!

denime
12-01-2011, 11:09 AM
Question- if we buy Plata/Ecks, are we using allocation money?

Probably,I heard somewhere that Ecks salary in England is over 500K £ and we were paying only 70K $.I would be ok with another year on loan,but that's me.

T-boy
12-01-2011, 11:09 AM
As I understand it, any transfer fee is added to the value of the contract and amortized over its duration. So, for example, if we have to pay $300,000 to buy out plata and then give him a 3 year contract at $100,000 per year, his annual hit to the cap would be $200,000 ($100,000 + $300,000/3). If this amount goes over the max salary, I think you can bring it down with allocation or you have to make him a DP (which some other teams have had to do)

This is correct.

I think this is what makes signing Eckersley full time a problem. We can't have another DP, and I'm sure Burnley would want to recoup some of the money spent on him already - so Ecks salary plus a purchase fee, would more probably take him into DP money. So that leaves the only option of extending his loan right now.

Canary10
12-01-2011, 11:20 AM
Is there any public record of how much allocation money we have? Didn't realize how important it is in this league!

Yohan
12-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Question- if we buy Plata/Ecks, are we using allocation money?
yes. teams can buy a player using a DP spot however


Some people's perception of value is a little weird on this forum. Like, some people are saying that Vitti would be well worth in excess of 200k, yet others saying Plata is not worth anything more than 125k?

To me, Plata IS worth well in excess of 200k, he had an outstanding season last year!As Mariner is talking big money, I'm assuming the Plata contract would definitely be more than 200k. And Eckersley for sure would want more than 200k, as I'm sure he's already currectly getting this at Burnley. BUT, he could take a pay cut just so he can stay here, he seems to love the city!

If you rate Plata based upon his relative value in comparison to MLS players in his position with similar skill sets and stats, plus his playing resume, Plata is worth way less than Vitti who has played in some of top clubs in Argentina, plus U20 and has done well in Peruvian league past two years. Compared to Vitti, Plata is a nobody in world football.


This is correct.

I think this is what makes signing Eckersley full time a problem. We can't have another DP, and I'm sure Burnley would want to recoup some of the money spent on him already - so Ecks salary plus a purchase fee, would more probably take him into DP money. So that leaves the only option of extending his loan right now.

More I think about this, I think Mariner will end up signing Plata, and extend Eck's loan, though TFC will have to pay more of Eck's salary this time around. Even if Eck wants to stay in toronto, and if his 500,000 pound salary per year is true, I highly doubt he'll take a massive pay cut just to stay in Toronto, no matter what kind of quality sex he gets from his Canadian gf ;)

Yohan
12-01-2011, 11:27 AM
Is there any public record of how much allocation money we have? Didn't realize how important it is in this league!
no... it's one of things MLS is supposedly working on to make it more transparent (from Supporter's Summit). it's all guesswork how much TFC has in allocation atm

Waggy
12-01-2011, 11:32 AM
no... it's one of things MLS is supposedly working on to make it more transparent (from Supporter's Summit). it's all guesswork how much TFC has in allocation atm

Well given we don't have a DP spot, what are we looking at here? There's no way we have 3 or 4 million bucks to spend in allocation money, right? And even if we do, using all of it in Dec would cripple us. Maybe Garber can fish some rule changes for us? Maybe if we just got Tannenbaum or whoever to pretend to be calling from the LAG instead?

Seriously though, is our only real chance at this to negotiate another year loan for Ecks, buy Plata this year and try and buy Ecks next? I just don't see how we could possibly get both in one off season with that kind of severe spending limit.

T-boy
12-01-2011, 11:34 AM
Regular sex with a Canadian girl for a Ginger British boy is worth WAY more than 500k a year! He would stay here for that alone, I'm sure! (speaking from experience, being a ginger british boy myself, haha!). Whoever this girl is, we need to give HER 500k! :p

Yohan
12-01-2011, 11:36 AM
Well given we don't have a DP spot, what are we looking at here? There's no way we have 3 or 4 million bucks to spend in allocation money, right? And even if we do, using all of it in Dec would cripple us. Maybe Garber can fish some rule changes for us? Maybe if we just got Tannenbaum or whoever to pretend to be calling from the LAG instead?

Seriously though, is our only real chance at this to negotiate another year loan for Ecks, buy Plata this year and try and buy Ecks next? I just don't see how we could possibly get both in one off season with that kind of severe spending limit.
allocation money gives a team so much flexibility that I'd argue against spending all of it right now, if all of it is required to buy just one of Plata or Eck. you want some leftover for July too.

as much as Eck and Plata has been good for TFC, I don't think they are worth crippling TFC with lack of flexibility in pursuing other players

brad
12-01-2011, 12:35 PM
Probably,I heard somewhere that Ecks salary in England is over 500K £ and we were paying only 70K $.I would be ok with another year on loan,but that's me.

I suspect if we are paying hims 70k, Burnely are probably paying the rest of it. That's usually the way loan deals work when a club covers part of the salary.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 12:47 PM
I suspect if we are paying hims 70k, Burnely are probably paying the rest of it. That's usually the way loan deals work when a club covers part of the salary.
I'd be more than content to have Eck back on loan for next year at whatever TFC is paying him right now. Just do what LA does with Juninho.

Question is, is it really worth it to buy Eck, if Eck does have a desire to play footy again in England? Surely he doesn't think at his age he wants to be a career MLSer? (though ginger boy getting quality Canadian sex does shift in TFC's favour lol)

denime
12-01-2011, 12:53 PM
I suspect if we are paying hims 70k, Burnely are probably paying the rest of it. That's usually the way loan deals work when a club covers part of the salary.

Yeah,question is how much of that salary TFC will have to pay if we want him for one more year?

I think it's very important that both players want to stay with TFC.Now it's up to MLS and TFC to find the way to sign them.

Platts
12-01-2011, 12:56 PM
As surprisingly good as Plata was last year keeping an effective defender who can read the game and can overlap well is much more valuable in our team.

hopefully though we can keep both. and i agree with Denime's thought, it is about time MLS makes something happen for someone other than LA and NYRB.

Canary10
12-01-2011, 01:00 PM
According to a Duane Rollins tweet, we have about $400-500k in cap space after getting rid of the waiver group. Mariner will have to be a miracle worker to figure out how to sign both Plata and Eks, plus one or two CBs let alone the depth players to replace the waived players.

Auzzy
12-01-2011, 01:02 PM
According to a Duane Rollins tweet, we have about $400-500k in cap space after getting rid of the waiver group. Mariner will have to be a miracle worker to figure out how to sign both Plata and Eks, plus one or two CBs let alone the depth players to replace the waived players.

Does that cap space include the money we're no longer paying for DeRo & Barrett?

Canary10
12-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Not sure. You'd have to ask him, but I'm guessing so.

ArmenJBX
12-01-2011, 01:12 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/962404-50-fattest-soccer-players-of-all-time/page/28

Collin Samuel, doing Toronto FC proud, makes the list of the 50 fattest soccer players of all time!

Yohan
12-01-2011, 01:15 PM
According to a Duane Rollins tweet, we have about $400-500k in cap space after getting rid of the waiver group. Mariner will have to be a miracle worker to figure out how to sign both Plata and Eks, plus one or two CBs let alone the depth players to replace the waived players.
I expect couple of Academy players will be signed for depth, and don't count against salary cap.

Plus whoever TFC picks with two first rounders in Jan, and one of them will probably be a GA

kaos197O
12-01-2011, 01:17 PM
Some people's perception of value is a little weird on this forum. Like, some people are saying that Vitti would be well worth in excess of 200k, yet others saying Plata is not worth anything more than 125k?

To me, Plata IS worth well in excess of 200k, he had an outstanding season last year!As Mariner is talking big money, I'm assuming the Plata contract would definitely be more than 200k. And Eckersley for sure would want more than 200k, as I'm sure he's already currectly getting this at Burnley. BUT, he could take a pay cut just so he can stay here, he seems to love the city!
Quoted for truth.

We just signed an unproven defender who many here are happy to have as DEPTH for $125 K yet Plata is not worth that. Interesting. I agree with T-boy on this, we will have to drop some coin to keep these players.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 01:22 PM
Quoted for truth.

We just signed an unproven defender who many here are happy to have as DEPTH for $125 K yet Plata is not worth that. Interesting. I agree with T-boy on this, we will have to drop some coin to keep these players.
I don't think Hall is not a good signing, for his salary. 75k would be more acceptable for a player who absolutely sucked at RB last season

Canary10
12-01-2011, 01:27 PM
I expect couple of Academy players will be signed for depth, and don't count against salary cap.

Plus whoever TFC picks with two first rounders in Jan, and one of them will probably be a GA

Some of a GA's salary counts againgst the cap doesn't it?

KGH
12-01-2011, 01:29 PM
Some of a GA's salary counts againgst the cap doesn't it?

Nope. Last years but most rules are the same. Cap has increased by 5%

I. MLS ROSTER COMPOSITION

A Major League Soccer club’s first team roster is comprised of up to 30 players. All 30 players are eligible for selection to each 18-player game-day squad during the regular season and playoffs.

Salary & Budget:

Players occupying roster spots 1-20 count against the club’s 2011 salary budget of $2,675,000, and are referred to collectively as the club’s Salary Budget Players.
Roster spots 19 and 20 are not required to be filled, and teams may spread their salary budget across only 18 Salary Budget Players. A minimum salary budget charge will be imputed against a team’s salary budget for each unfilled senior roster slot below 18.
The maximum budget charge for a single player is $335,000.*
A Designated Player counts $335,000 against the club’s salary budget, unless the player joins his club in the middle of the season, in which case his budget charge will be $167,500.
* See section entitled Allocation Money below, under Player Acquisition Mechanisms, for details on buying down a player’s budget charge.

Players occupying roster spots 21-30 do not count against the club’s salary budget, and are referred to collectively as the club’s Off-Budget Players (maximum of 10 per team).
All Generation adidas players are Off-Budget players.
Players occupying roster spots 1-24 will earn at least $42,000 in 2011.
Players occupying roster spots 25-30 will earn at least $32,600 in 2011.
Clubs may elect to leave up to two of these roster spots (25-30) vacant and use $35,000 for each empty spot as allocation money.
Clubs may sign up to two Home Grown Players to Generation adidas contracts.
Age Designations:

Any player making $32,600 must be under the age 25 (does not turn 25 or older in 2011).

Canary10
12-01-2011, 01:36 PM
^ Thanks for that post.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 01:37 PM
Some of a GA's salary counts againgst the cap doesn't it?
nope. it's one of reasons why GAs are highly sought after (that, and they tend to be better players in a draft)

Canary10
12-01-2011, 01:42 PM
Yeah, i see that now. We need to make really good use of those two first rounders.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 01:51 PM
Yeah, i see that now. We need to make really good use of those two first rounders.
TFC has 4th and 12th pick. Mariner has a good eye for college talent, so I expect to see at least one borderline starter/depth player for 2012 season

Canary10
12-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Yeah, their player evaluation is very good. There are a few centre backs people are talking about. One looks to be going first unfortunately. Wenger I think his name is?

In the future, teams will win or lose by the quality of their academies in my opinion (given that home grown players aren't part of the cap). I think that's a plus for us with our current management.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 02:04 PM
NBC has hired Arlo White for their PBP guy

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/44834/nbc-picks-arlo-white-for-play-by-play.html (http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/the-english-commentator-invasion-of-american-soccer-14794)

While White is a bit of Sounders homer, he's IMO by far best PBP for soccer in NA. (though Ian Darke has done good as well)

T-boy
12-01-2011, 02:12 PM
I haven't seen anybody post The Score interview with DeGuzman yet, so here it is. It's pretty fascinating actually:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbe7RbE-Dz0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbe7RbE-Dz0)
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrOyvNfmXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnrOyvNfmXQ)

Oldtimer
12-01-2011, 02:34 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/962404-50-fattest-soccer-players-of-all-time/page/28

Collin Samuel, doing Toronto FC proud, makes the list of the 50 fattest soccer players of all time!

Who ate all the pies!!!! :D

Roogsy
12-01-2011, 03:31 PM
Did you notice how many keepers are on that list? :lol:

Whoop
12-01-2011, 03:35 PM
That's why I don't think Frei will get you as much in return in a trade as people think.

West220Side
12-01-2011, 03:53 PM
Toronto has three designated players on contract, giving the Reds very little room on the MLS salary cap to exercise all options on its "wish list," Mariner explained.


http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/12/plata-eckersley-talks-going-well

Seems to me like it would be in everybodys interests to pay off de Guzman.

KGH
12-01-2011, 03:56 PM
Seems to me like it would be in everybodys interests to pay off de Guzman.

Except the guys paying the bill.

Yohan
12-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Except the guys paying the bill.
and whether people think Dunfield is good enough replacement for JDG (I personally disagree)

KGH
12-01-2011, 04:20 PM
and whether people think Dunfield is good enough replacement for JDG (I personally disagree)

I'm with you on that one. Out of our midfield Stinson looked the best coming off the bench. If he continues to develop at this pace he'll be a beast for us.

brad
12-01-2011, 04:38 PM
and whether people think Dunfield is good enough replacement for JDG (I personally disagree)

I think it's a bit more than that though. It's more a question of whether the team would be better with Dunfield as opposed to JDG and the cap space from JDG invested in another player/players.

Ossington Mental Youth
12-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Except the guys paying the bill.

meh not really, it would definitely pay off if it meant helping the team do better next season