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rocker
11-23-2011, 06:32 PM
I didn't see this anywhere.. MLS saw players waived today.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/11/23/players-waived-teams-begin-shape-rosters-2012

TFC got rid of these guys (two eddies ;) :

Kyle Davies
Matthew Gold
Leandre Griffit
Javier Martina
Demitirius Omphroy
Eddy Viator
Eddy Zavarise

Too bad about Gianluca Zavarise ... I liked him.

rocker
11-23-2011, 06:37 PM
John Rooney was waived by NYRB. ha ha. Ives Galarcep said the original drafting of Rooney was simply a "favour" by NYRB to MLS, who wanted the good PR.

West220Side
11-23-2011, 06:40 PM
TFC got rid of these guys (two eddies ;) :

Kyle Davies
Matthew Gold
Leandre Griffit
Javier Martina
Demitirius Omphroy
Eddy Viator
Eddy Zavarise


To bad about Kyle Davies. Thought he could have been promising. Guess there's no room for him in Winters future plans for the club.

Detroit_TFC
11-23-2011, 06:56 PM
Can't say that the 5 newly announced cuts are that big a surprise. Having said that, most of these guys would be ok in NASL 2.0 if they want to work for those wages.

wesvahr
11-23-2011, 07:01 PM
no surprise about anyone there.

Too bad about Martina, watched him in the pre-season, he has quality just poor work ethic. He had potential but failed to exploit it.

Shway
11-23-2011, 07:11 PM
Can't say that the 5 newly announced cuts are that big a surprise. Having said that, most of these guys would be ok in NASL 2.0 if they want to work for those wages.

agreed,
but there needs to be more than 8 NASL teams

starter
11-23-2011, 07:17 PM
Too bad about Martina, watched him in the pre-season, he has quality just poor work ethic. He had potential but failed to exploit it.

Hoped he would smarten up, but noooo.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-23-2011, 07:20 PM
only slightly surprised by zavarise being dropped, not so much for the rest

starter
11-23-2011, 07:25 PM
Zavarise could not find a potential starting position for himself, seemed like career second-stringer, IMO.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-23-2011, 07:28 PM
yeah, more or less surprised he wasnt kept for depth

starter
11-23-2011, 07:33 PM
yeah, more or less surprised he wasnt kept for depth

If his lack of ambition was the reason, than I like the way Winter/Mariner operate. Good luck to Zavarise anyways.

123 elite
11-23-2011, 07:43 PM
How many of those players were brought in by the current management team?

starter
11-23-2011, 07:51 PM
How many of those players were brought in by the current management team?

All of them, and TFC cut its' losses the first chance it got.

Darlofletch
11-23-2011, 07:52 PM
How many of those players were brought in by the current management team?

all 7 of them.

you take your chances and hope things work. they bought int a lot of players,
frings, koevermans, plata, johnson, avila, eckersley, soolsma, dunfield, iro, williams, yourassowsky, borman and probably some others I'm forgetting did enough to stick around. for 2012, there's a lot fewer spots to fill, they'll probably only have 50% success rate again, but that rate will eventually get them to a good squad.

QSIM
11-23-2011, 08:17 PM
Sad to see Zava go, but theres really no room fo him behind Peri, Avila and whoever else we'll be picking up...

Little bit upset to see Omphroy go. I mean, he was our 1st round pick, seemed to do okay in some reserve games and got very limited minutes this season. I guess they see it as Morgan > Omphroy, comparable age and play the same position.

hodgkiss
11-23-2011, 08:33 PM
please trade sturgis for hainault.

Auzzy
11-23-2011, 08:41 PM
please trade sturgis for hainault.

Ha ha, that's a good one, do you believe in Santa Claus?

Yohan
11-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Sad to see Zava go, but theres really no room fo him behind Peri, Avila and whoever else we'll be picking up...

Little bit upset to see Omphroy go. I mean, he was our 1st round pick, seemed to do okay in some reserve games and got very limited minutes this season. I guess they see it as Morgan > Omphroy, comparable age and play the same position.
Omphroy wasn't a first round pick

123 elite
11-23-2011, 10:09 PM
all 7 of them.

you take your chances and hope things work. they bought int a lot of players,
frings, koevermans, plata, johnson, avila, eckersley, soolsma, dunfield, iro, williams, yourassowsky, borman and probably some others I'm forgetting did enough to stick around. for 2012, there's a lot fewer spots to fill, they'll probably only have 50% success rate again, but that rate will eventually get them to a good squad.

Fantastic. Thats the managment strategy I like and can identify with. A 'take your chances and hope things work out' strategy. Its up there with catenaccio and total football. So 10 players brought in and shipped back out again this year. I look forward to the 'eventually' getting a good squad year. I just wonder what year its going to be.

ArmenJBX
11-23-2011, 10:12 PM
This is normal turnover for a rebuilding side.
This is the equivalent of our early years turnover, getting rid of players like Joey Melo, Adam Braz, etc.

The turnover is a problem with the core group is sold off. There's 20 players on this roster who, if they can stay around, will be perfect for the coming seasons.

A bit of turnover is okay. It's when our important players leave that it becomes an issue.

Ajax TFC
11-23-2011, 10:19 PM
Fantastic. Thats the managment strategy I like and can identify with. A 'take your chances and hope things work out' strategy. Its up there with catenaccio and total football. So 10 players brought in and shipped back out again this year. I look forward to the 'eventually' getting a good squad year. I just wonder what year its going to be.

you don't seriously think that these are core players, who by loosing we start all over again. do you? these are the fringe players. they take up roster spots and offer nothing in return.
The only player here that played any sort of a role this year was Martina, and it's become clear that he isn't a team player.
You act as if these are the only players we brought in this year, when in fact most of the players that got brought in are still with the team

ManUtd4ever
11-23-2011, 10:34 PM
Fantastic. Thats the managment strategy I like and can identify with. A 'take your chances and hope things work out' strategy. Its up there with catenaccio and total football. So 10 players brought in and shipped back out again this year. I look forward to the 'eventually' getting a good squad year. I just wonder what year its going to be.

Right, because every manager in MLS bats .1000 when it comes to acquiring 24 impact players on their roster. :rolleyes:

What about the considerable number of players acquired by management that did make an impact with the first team that will remain with the club moving forward?

Frings, Koevermans, Plata, Johnson, Eckersley, Avila, Williams, and Soolsma are all solid starting caliber MLS players that were acquired by the new regime. That's 8 out of 11 positions in the starting lineup.

Dunfield, Marosevic, Borman, Iro, and Yourassowsky were also acquired by the new regime and provide very adequate strength as reserves. That's 5 out of 7 positions off the bench.

Overall, I would say that Winter and Mariner have done an admirable job with astute player acquisitions.

PopePouri
11-23-2011, 10:35 PM
We had 34 players on the roster because of injuries and late signings. It's not surprising that there is this amount of turnover.

Razcle
11-23-2011, 10:37 PM
any idea why Davies was not given more of shot? I can't say I remember seeing him make the pitch.

Luanda
11-23-2011, 10:50 PM
Anyone have any idea about what players MTL signed but did not disclose before the expansion draft?

Ossington Mental Youth
11-23-2011, 11:12 PM
Fantastic. Thats the managment strategy I like and can identify with. A 'take your chances and hope things work out' strategy. Its up there with catenaccio and total football. So 10 players brought in and shipped back out again this year. I look forward to the 'eventually' getting a good squad year. I just wonder what year its going to be.


Id be more worried if they were all starting 11 players
Losing poor depth? not such a worry

ag futbol
11-23-2011, 11:14 PM
In all honesty, the turnover doesn't seem that bad, but now it is just a question of whether they've kept the right people.

You call that turnover? I'll show you turnover.

http://www.afterfoot.fr/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery-img/joueurs/gallery/685/twvdznff_8657.jpg

Yohan
11-23-2011, 11:15 PM
In all honesty, the turnover doesn't seem that bad, but now it is just a question of whether they've kept the right people.
not losing any of the core players from 2nd half of the season is a good start. now if Mariner/Winter can find some decent signings to push some players like Soolsma/Iro/Johnson into depth role, it'll be good


You call that turnover? I'll show you turnover.

http://www.afterfoot.fr/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery-img/joueurs/gallery/685/twvdznff_8657.jpg
well played sir

Oldtimer
11-24-2011, 07:29 AM
http://www.afterfoot.fr/sites/default/files/imagecache/gallery-img/joueurs/gallery/685/twvdznff_8657.jpg

Am I the only one, or do others get a creepy feeling whenever they see a picture of Mo?

Back to the topic, no MLS manager gets 100% of their acquisitions right. Kreis did quite a bit of changes until he built his championship team.

brad
11-24-2011, 07:48 AM
No manager in the world get's there acquisitions 100% right. Anybody expecting Winter and Co. to do so is expecting them to do better in the transfer market than guys like Mourinho and Ferguson.

Oldtimer
11-24-2011, 07:55 AM
Complete list of waived players (excluding Toronto):

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/11/23/players-waived-teams-begin-shape-rosters-2012

COLUMBUS
Santiago Prim
Dejan Rusmir
DALLAS
Edson Edward
HOUSTON
Francisco Navas Cobo
Evan Newton
KANSAS CITY
Jeferson Goncalves
Scott Lorenz
Craig Rocastle
Milos Stojcev
NEW YORK
Alex Horwath
Mychel Jones
Tyler Lassiter
Marcos Paullo
John Rooney
Theodore Schneider
NEW ENGLAND
Alan Koger
Otto Loewy
Andrew Sousa
PHILADELPHIA
Juan Diego Gonzalez
Thorne Holder
SALT LAKE
Tim Melia
VANCOUVER Bilal Duckett
Nizar Khalfan
Alexandre Morfaw


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Anyone in there that Toronto should pick up?

Sometimes a change of club and system can make a player do better.

brad
11-24-2011, 08:25 AM
Poor John Rooney - getting waived from an MLS club while his brother, well...

Phil
11-24-2011, 08:31 AM
Poor John Rooney - getting waived from an MLS club while his brother, well...

This league is very physical and I think John just figured that out.

Canary10
11-24-2011, 08:55 AM
This league is very physical and I think John just figured that out.

I can't imagine any brother of Wayne Rooney not being able to handle physical stuff.

__wowza
11-24-2011, 08:57 AM
Am I the only one, or do others get a creepy feeling whenever they see a picture of Mo?

that's not creepy, this is creepy:

http://i.imm.io/c10L.jpeg

__wowza
11-24-2011, 09:03 AM
http://i.imm.io/c11y.jpeg

__wowza
11-24-2011, 09:07 AM
http://i.imm.io/c12i.jpeg

Oldtimer
11-24-2011, 09:12 AM
that's not creepy, this is creepy:

http://i.imm.io/c10L.jpeg


aarrrrggghhhh!!!

:willy_nilly:


:lol:

KGH
11-24-2011, 09:18 AM
On the bright side of those releases is about $400k additional we can go shopping with.

ensco
11-24-2011, 09:26 AM
Anyone follow KC well enough to understand what happened with Jeferson? I thought he was a very interesting way to use the DP slot (a 27 year old Brazilian with some credentials, on loan) but I don't think it worked out - he was invisible in the game we played there in July, and he never hit the scoresheet.

Couchy81
11-24-2011, 09:34 AM
No manager in the world get's there acquisitions 100% right. Anybody expecting Winter and Co. to do so is expecting them to do better in the transfer market than guys like Mourinho and Ferguson.

It's clear some people Just Dont Like Winter. No point in even arguing with them at this point.

Yohan
11-24-2011, 10:58 AM
Anyone follow KC well enough to understand what happened with Jeferson? I thought he was a very interesting way to use the DP slot (a 27 year old Brazilian with some credentials, on loan) but I don't think it worked out - he was invisible in the game we played there in July, and he never hit the scoresheet.
I thought he was ok, but I think KC thought he was short term signing, more like cover for Arnaud when he was injured. to buy him is probably too expensive, and graham zusi also emerged as a strong CM so Jeferson was not worth it

rocker
11-24-2011, 12:38 PM
Anyone follow KC well enough to understand what happened with Jeferson? I thought he was a very interesting way to use the DP slot (a 27 year old Brazilian with some credentials, on loan) but I don't think it worked out - he was invisible in the game we played there in July, and he never hit the scoresheet.

Vermes said yesterday that it was money. They tried to negotiate with the loaning team but they wanted too much.

123 elite
11-25-2011, 10:24 AM
Id be more worried if they were all starting 11 players
Losing poor depth? not such a worry

My concern is that if this is 'poor depth' why was it aquired in the first place, what qualities were seen to aquire it in the first place, what qualities or lack of were seen in players off loaded in order to aquire these players in the first place and why in many of these cases did the amount of actual match played minutes amount to so little in order for a mass clear out to happen. And of course why so many again treat this as a triumph of management skill.

brad
11-25-2011, 10:36 AM
^^those are valid questions for sure, and ones we will never know the answer to. My big one is - were these players that Winter thought were good enough, or were they the ones that were available as stop gaps.

Ossington Mental Youth
11-25-2011, 11:17 AM
good questions.
I think we do have to take into consideration the fact our new FO was signed with what? A month before the season started? so i think alot of those dudes were grabbed quickly. For me I think we can be encouraged based off who we grabbed in the second half of the season coupled, rather than the first, those dudes have worked out well and I think thats the direction Mariner and Winter are headed in as far as player acquisition is conderned

ManUtd4ever
11-25-2011, 11:40 AM
The way I see it, most of the players that were acquired to fill a role in the starting lineup either met or exceeded expectations. The players that were acquired to fill a reserve role were hit and miss, which is to be expected considering the salary implications.

Tha fact of the matter is that TFC is in a good position for the first time since the start of 2009, with only 2-3 positions to fill within the starting lineup as well as a few reserve roles. Furthermore, management finally has an adequate amount of cap space available to address the shortcomings on the roster.

123 elite
11-25-2011, 10:06 PM
^^^
The way i see is that most of those players were aquired to fill a role that wasn't a reserve role when they were aquired. The results and the formations of the first half of the season show that not many of them were smartly aquired or could adapt to any role required of them here. And Winter at the time may have been new to the league but Mariner wasn't. He would have had a fairly good idea of the strengths and weaknesses of not only TFC but every other club out there. Manutd4ever may think that our current starting 11 may have met or exceeded expectations but boy do you set your standards low. You must have love jordi Cruyff and Djemba djemba.

sashavukelich
11-26-2011, 02:22 AM
The way I see it, most of the players that were acquired to fill a role in the starting lineup either met or exceeded expectations. The players that were acquired to fill a reserve role were hit and miss, which is to be expected considering the salary implications.

Tha fact of the matter is that TFC is in a good position for the first time since the start of 2009, with only 2-3 positions to fill within the starting lineup as well as a few reserve roles. Furthermore, management finally has an adequate amount of cap space available to address the shortcomings on the roster.

nailed it. +1. Loads of cap space, and eye for talent. Anyone you fella's think we should pick up off Waivers?

QSIM
11-26-2011, 02:44 AM
Omphroy wasn't a first round pick

Right, sorry, thought he was a 1st because he was the first player we took in the draft. Forgot we traded away our frist rounder

ensco
11-26-2011, 10:04 AM
The way I see it, most of the players that were acquired to fill a role in the starting lineup either met or exceeded expectations. The players that were acquired to fill a reserve role were hit and miss, which is to be expected considering the salary implications.

Tha fact of the matter is that TFC is in a good position for the first time since the start of 2009, with only 2-3 positions to fill within the starting lineup as well as a few reserve roles. Furthermore, management finally has an adequate amount of cap space available to address the shortcomings on the roster.

This is true as it goes, but is not the complete picture. The verdict really isn't in yet on this. Don't forget we couldn't make any discovery signings last summer because of this. This could become an issue in 2012. First rule of MLS: the natural time to make good signings for next year, is this summer (Exhibit A: Frings and Koevermans). In a "tear down the house" year, the inability to sign players last summer may have been the biggest mistake made all year by WinterMariner. We'll have a clearer picture once they start bringing new guys in.