Aron Winter just called me(!)

[DangerRed]

So I'm sitting at the office working, the phone rings, I see MLSE on the call display.

I pick up, Aron Winter is on the other end, asking me about why I'm not renewing my three seats.

Had a great chat with him about the direction of the club, the moves he's made, and about how my dissatisfaction is largely with the business end of the club, and not with his direction.

"You know better than I do that you guys have to fix the backline" was my one piece of advice to the guy, who seemed very friendly and laid back on the phone.

Anyway, we ended on a nice note with him saying it sounds like he'll see me back at BMO next year, and me responding by saying that I'll be there in some way, shape or form, but not as a season ticket holder. He said fair enough and we hanged up.

Whoever at the club thought this up is a pretty good PR man. Was nice to talk to the gaffer and I'm sure those of you not renewing will get a similar call too.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Wow! That's pretty cool.

FO really doesn't want to see people walking away anymore. Previous years they had lineups for tickets. Now you get a call from the coach when you don't renew.

[Nuvinho]

now I wish I didn't renew, just to get a call from Aron Winter. He was my favourite player when I was growing up.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Not near good enough PR. He needs to convince everyone by posting in _wowza's Approval thread. It's way more important than one on one or face to face communication.:rolleyes::D:rolleyes:

Good initiative.

[DangerRed]

Yeah, he talked up the "12th man on my roster" in terms of fan support, but there definitely was no attempt at a hard sale of any kind in terms of getting me back on board as a season ticket holder. He just said "I hear that you're unhappy," and I told him why (pricing, having to renew existing seats before the chance of relocation). He said, fair enough, talk to the reps and see if anything is possible regarding alternative options.

I'm half expecting an email from MLSE now saying "hope you enjoyed your chat, would you like some ransom packs?" :D

[ACSertL]

I fully expect a phone call from someone over there thanking me for renewing. :)

[pekduck]

I fully expect a phone call from someone over there thanking me for renewing. :)

ROFL.... oh man....the irony :D

[mastermixer]

Wow... I wonder how many calls like that he has to make? I can't see him enjoying hearing people complain about why they didnt renew.

Can you imagine Preki having to do this? LOL

[TorCanSoc]

Wow. The numbers must be way way down.

Emails for our seat relocation is also a chance to buy another ticket. Honeymoon is over boys. Expect 15,000 per game next year.

[dupont]

That is neat. It must be a pain in the ass for him to call people so I'm sure he could choose not to do it even if though they asked him to ...so he probably actually cares that the fans are happy.

[Suds]

That is neat. It must be a pain in the ass for him to call people so I'm sure he could choose not to do it even if though they asked him to ...so he probably actually cares that the fans are happy.

I think it also speaks to the fact he is not paying lip service when he talks about the importance of the relationship between the fans and the players. And I'm sure he's savvy enough about the business of football to know this as well.

Why the TFC FO could not have seen this plain truth 4 years ago is beyond me. Better late than never ... I guess. :rolleyes:

[T-boy]

I'm sure he won't be calling all the fans that didn't renew. The FO probably know which fans are the hardcore fans...I can't see him calling somebody the FO might think is a scalper.

[MartinUtd]

Interesting. I had an email from a rep I've never heard of asking me why I didn't renew and I told them that the FO has lost my business and I wouldn't consider anything other than year 3 pricing.

I didn't even get a response. This was a month ago and clearly they've been over confident given the anecdotes I've seen on here if they're getting Winter to personally reach out.

[__wowza]

he called me to ask if i saw this weeks episode of the walking dead.
i told him i didn't and he said "that sucks, it was really quite good".

[Roogsy]

He called me this week and asked me to ease up on him on these boards. :D

[GBV]

Desperate times, desperate measures, huh.

[T-boy]

he called me to ask if i saw this weeks episode of the walking dead.
i told him i didn't and he said "that sucks, it was really quite good".

Really?! He must have low standards in entertainment! It was a slow episode! Let's hope he doesn't have the same standards for the entertainment at BMO next season! :p

[mastermixer]

He called me and asked to speak with Ruud... so I told him he had the wrong number.

[TFCRegina]

He called me this week and asked me to ease up on him on these boards. :D

Maybe he'll wine and dine you ala Seattle Sounders to get your support back.

Roogs and Winter sitting in a tree...

[Canary10]

He called me this week and asked me to ease up on him on these boards. :D

Ha. That's funny!

[brad]

Danger - where were your tickets? Just wondering if this is directed at folks that were spending big $$$ on tix.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Wow. The numbers must be way way down.

Emails for our seat relocation is also a chance to buy another ticket. Honeymoon is over boys. Expect 15,000 per game next year.

Oh but 50k will be chomping at the bit to see them at the skydome :/
(not a jab at you TorCanSoc)

cool he called tho

[ManUtd4ever]

LOL, I thought this thread title was a reference to a recorded message.

I can't believe Winter actually called you! Danger, he must have read some of your posts earlier in the season. :D

[Cashcleaner]

I had my suspicions that ticket sales were low this year when I called up to renew, but to have the GM call someone up like this tells me they must be really hurting. Of course, I could be wrong and it could have been done as a lark, but I'm certainly getting the impression that they are not meeting their targets.

Of course, even if attendance went down to 15,000 a game, that's still a crowd a few other MLS clubs can only dream of.

[Gazza]

He called me this week and asked me to ease up on him on these boards. :D


But you couldn't talk long because you had the potential MVP on the other line.

[prizby]

I had my suspicions that ticket sales were low this year when I called up to renew, but to have the GM call someone up like this tells me they must be really hurting. Of course, I could be wrong and it could have been done as a lark, but I'm certainly getting the impression that they are not meeting their targets.

Of course, even if attendance went down to 15,000 a game, that's still a crowd a few other MLS clubs can only dream of.

thats's below MLS average...

[TOBOR !]

Really?! He must have low standards in entertainment! It was a slow episode! Let's hope he doesn't have the same standards for the entertainment at BMO next season! :p

you guys are on crack - it has zombies therefore it rules. There are no bad Zombie shows. Bad Zombie graphic novels, sure, but once you put them on TV they become amazing.

I'd love it if we could sign a 6 foot 6 zombie to patrol our back four... oh, wait...

[prizby]

when you think about it...great winter is calling, but lets be honest, most of us are not unhappy about the direction of team anymore and the things happening on the pitch, most of us are unhappy with the prices we are paying for this. Think about the sponsorship income that BMO pays for naming rights and kit sponsorship. That represents about 60-70% of what Toronto FC paid for players salaries this year (BMO Field pays $4-5mil, TFC total player salaries paid was $6.5 million). There is absolutely no reason they should be eye gauging us on prices especially when they make a killing of concessions and merchandise.

If someone does get a call from Winter tell him Winter what your tickets cost in your first year and then tell him what they cost now. If it was me, I'd be talking about the supporters section in that in 5 years, the prices have gone from $200 to $361...that's an 80% increase during this time period. Has the Canadian economy grown 80% during the same amount? NOT even close

I bet you Winter is sick and tired about hearing about the prices

[ensco]

He called me this week and asked me to ease up on him on these boards. :D

I got a call like that once....(not from Winter)...those with good memories will remember the story!

[ManUtd4ever]

I got a call like that once....(not from Winter)...those with good memories will remember the story!

I remember that, LOL.

Perhaps it's time to start a fake Aron Winter diary. :D

[Cashcleaner]

thats's below MLS average...

What's your point? It doesn't dispute the fact that 7 clubs had average attendances below 15,000 in 2011.

Like Columbus with 12,185 or San Jose with 11,858.

[TFCRegina]

thats's below MLS average...

That /was/ below MLS average. Toronto's average attendance falling will drag down the average a fair bit.

But what do they expect, they charge extortionate prices for subpar football. Price drops would do more than personal calls from Mr. Winter.

[TorCanSoc]

Oh but 50k will be chomping at the bit to see them at the skydome :/
(not a jab at you TorCanSoc)

cool he called tho

No jab taken.

50,000 people to watch TFC play (the CCL game of course). I dream of it. I know a lot of us hard core guys want to focus on the football and the team. But I like a good spectacle once in a while.

Having said that... the more I think about my guess is 25-30K at the Rogers Centre. Lets call it 5K to see Beckham....if he's still with the team.

[DangerRed]

Danger - where were your tickets? Just wondering if this is directed at folks that were spending big $$$ on tix.

I had three together in 225. Not big bucks at all. After we hung up I was wondering the same thing, but then again, I did have an exchange over several emails with my rep about why I will not renew (again, the pricing model being totally out of whack with the product on the pitch) so maybe that prompted it.

[DichioTFC]

i got a call from Ben. Not nearly as exciting as getting a call from Aron.

:(

[Shakes McQueen]

I got a call from Geico, telling me I was paying too much for car insurance.

- Scott

[Ron Manager]

Anyone else get a call from this guy? Creepy.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MWg4IyCLva0/TXHn0BHBceI/AAAAAAAABaM/MVo4xYJAR4w/s1600/Lionel_Richie_Hello_Lost_Sign.jpg

[cmonyoureds]

Wow... I wonder how many calls like that he has to make? I can't see him enjoying hearing people complain about why they didnt renew.

Can you imagine Preki having to do this? LOL


HAHAHAHA i bet when he read the contract that said "other duties as assigned" he never imagined it would be flogging tickets!!!

[mowe]

Wow. The numbers must be way way down.

Emails for our seat relocation is also a chance to buy another ticket. Honeymoon is over boys. Expect 15,000 per game next year.

+1. Looks like 5 years of incompetence are seriously catching up with the club. There needs to be some major changes quick.

[ag futbol]

This organization just puts the cart wayyyyy before the horse.

A rational strategy is to build loyalty over a period of years and then introduce price increases once the demand for your product is less elastic. For the leafs, they have decades of good will to fall back on. For the raptors, at the very least it's a premium product and at least initially their results and their prices ramped up at the same time (even still, they have hit the wall with bad results and reduced ticket demand).

When it comes to TFC, raising prices is near-sighted. It looks like short-term financial goals were stated first and then someone started to work backwards. The long run effects of this kinds of pricing policy are terrible.

[A.J]

People said we'll be getting ~15000 per game in the beginning of this year too. We'll be fine

[Ossington Mental Youth]

People said we'll be getting ~15000 per game in the beginning of this year too. We'll be fine

yeah i agree,
im sure they wont have 100 percent, prob 80 or higher
i dont doubt that mlse is po'd they dont have what they used to, but thats on them

[menefreghista]

People said we'll be getting ~15000 per game in the beginning of this year too. We'll be fine

But that is essentially what the crowds were this year. Despite whatever bs number TFC FO wanted to post as the attendance for most games.

[ag futbol]

But that is essentially what the crowds were this year. Despite whatever bs number TFC FO wanted to post as the attendance for most games.
I was going to post something along these lines.

What was our "real" buts in seats number this year as opposed to paid attendance? Because one has to figure eventually season tickets will drift towards that number as opposed to sit where they are now with plenty of paid but absent SSH's.

But regardless they have incentive to inflate the numbers. I bet FCD "averages" 18k per game :)

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't care what TFC say the attendance numbers are. If they want to puff their chest out publicly, that's their prerogative.

All that matters is that "real" attendance is clearly down, and they privately know it. As a fan, that's all that matters to me, because it means people are voting with their wallets. Hopefully that recelibrates MLSE's priorities on what is necessary to try and bring casual fans back. I think it already is, to an extent.

- Scott

[Ossington Mental Youth]

while i do think attendance is suffering and MLSE/MLS is messing with the numbers i dont necessarily believe that we were down to 15k regularly this year (i too went to every game)

[TFC/Everton]

when you think about it...great winter is calling, but lets be honest, most of us are not unhappy about the direction of team anymore and the things happening on the pitch, most of us are unhappy with the prices we are paying for this. Think about the sponsorship income that BMO pays for naming rights and kit sponsorship. That represents about 60-70% of what Toronto FC paid for players salaries this year (BMO Field pays $4-5mil, TFC total player salaries paid was $6.5 million). There is absolutely no reason they should be eye gauging us on prices especially when they make a killing of concessions and merchandise.

If someone does get a call from Winter tell him Winter what your tickets cost in your first year and then tell him what they cost now. If it was me, I'd be talking about the supporters section in that in 5 years, the prices have gone from $200 to $361...that's an 80% increase during this time period. Has the Canadian economy grown 80% during the same amount? NOT even close

I bet you Winter is sick and tired about hearing about the prices

Let me guess, you didn't major in economics? LOL

[Roogsy]

while i do think attendance is suffering and MLSE/MLS is messing with the numbers i dont necessarily believe that we were down to 15k regularly this year (i too went to every game)

I doubt it as well. It looked near capacity but definitely not as full. Given that there isn't the same "Carlsberg Patio" of previous years, there aren't as many people in the patio and most should be in their seats and yet it did not appear so. I figure the average attendance (excluding CCL) was in the high teens, 19k or so. Maybe 20k.

Regardless, what is definitely true is that the "scarcity" of the ticket has been eliminated. And that is really the most damaging thing to the team. Not whether 15k or 19k people are physically attending games. The team would have to be shamelessly greedy and stupid to try a ticket hike in those circumstances. But I bet you ticket price hikes are worked into the long-term projection which really puts the business unit in a pickle.

Truth is, they did it to themselves.

[Wooster_TFC]

I doubt it as well. It looked near capacity but definitely not as full. Given that there isn't the same "Carlsberg Patio" of previous years, there aren't as many people in the patio and most should be in their seats and yet it did not appear so. I figure the average attendance (excluding CCL) was in the high teens, 19k or so. Maybe 20k.

Regardless, what is definitely true is that the "scarcity" of the ticket has been eliminated. And that is really the most damaging thing to the team. Not whether 15k or 19k people are physically attending games. The team would have to be shamelessly greedy and stupid to try a ticket hike in those circumstances. But I bet you ticket price hikes are worked into the long-term projection which really puts the business unit in a pickle.

Truth is, they did it to themselves.

I had half pack seats in the north end, and pretty much every game there were at least 500 people under the north stand during gameplay (either standing at the railing, or getting food or chatting in the "beer garden" in front of the food building). This might be an underestimation too. I can imagine that there were at least the same amount under the east and west stands (if not way more) getting food, beer, or going to the bathroom. That adds anywhere from 1000 (low end) to 2500 (high end) people at any one time not actually in their seats.

That said, there were also a tonne of seats in the north end that never had anyone come close to them, so there had to be at least 200 or so unsold tickets most games.

Football is a tough sell to keep butts in seats at all times in Toronto IMO. A lot of people go to sporting events as a fun thing to do with friends and, sadly, not to watch the actual game the entire time. Or it's about a suit bringing someone they are wining and dining and they only watch the game for a brief stint (see the platinum seats in the ACC for a bunch of the Leafs' games, most of the time after the first they are empty). The fact that the facilities (bathrooms and food/drink providers) at BMO are less than stellar and, as such, overload them at halftime makes it even easier for the "fairweather" fans and suits to simply not be in their seats during the game. Adding the TVs/announcers in the concourse just adds to that.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I doubt it as well. It looked near capacity but definitely not as full. Given that there isn't the same "Carlsberg Patio" of previous years, there aren't as many people in the patio and most should be in their seats and yet it did not appear so. I figure the average attendance (excluding CCL) was in the high teens, 19k or so. Maybe 20k.

Regardless, what is definitely true is that the "scarcity" of the ticket has been eliminated. And that is really the most damaging thing to the team. Not whether 15k or 19k people are physically attending games. The team would have to be shamelessly greedy and stupid to try a ticket hike in those circumstances. But I bet you ticket price hikes are worked into the long-term projection which really puts the business unit in a pickle.

Truth is, they did it to themselves.


this we can definitely agree on, only way to solve that is to a) start winning and b) make the tickets a reasonable price

[Wooster_TFC]

this we can definitely agree on, only way to solve that is to a) start winning and b) make the tickets a reasonable price

+100

[prizby]

Let me guess, you didn't major in economics? LOL

business commerce in sports administration