Winter Approval Rating - October 2011

[ensco]

IMO [the CCL] tournament performance, which was largely conducted mid-week with plenty of travel, deserves at least equal billing with the infamous 2011 MLS record.

I have a different take, based on how Dallas did down the stretch, but this is a valid view too.

[menefreghista]

I have a different take, based on how Dallas did down the stretch, but this is a valid view too.

Don't forget that it took an act of God for TFC to even make it in.

[ManUtd4ever]

Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

"While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a shame, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".

Agreed.


Don't forget the act of God that it took to make it in the first place.

True, but in the the initial NCC Final match, TFC was only down 1-0, and they were pressing for the equalizer with time to spare before the match was eventually cancelled.

In any case, the club still deserves credit for compiling an impressive record in the CCL the rest of the way with what was essentially a new roster.

[Kaz]

Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

"While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a pity, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".

fixed.

also don't forget the loss of two CB to injury and Nana we now know had some personal issues he couldn't shake from the diplomatic elements that have been mentioned. So that is three CBs gone and the Major goal scoring threat. That is what people seem to forget, we loss both our offense and defense early, while learning a new system. heck while learning what a system was.

[ag futbol]

fixed.

also don't forget the loss of two CB to injury and Nana we now know had some personal issues he couldn't shake from the diplomatic elements that have been mentioned. So that is three CBs gone and the Major goal scoring threat. That is what people seem to forget, we loss both our offense and defense early, while learning a new system. heck while learning what a system was.
It is what it is. Frankly even with Cann in the lineup i don't think anyone is going to fool themselves into saying "he's the CB" we've been looking for to stabilize the back.

As far as "learning the system" goes ... well the only reason you do something like that in the short term is if you're better off in the long run. So it only serves to underscore what ensco has said about expectations for next year.

[Kaz]

It is what it is. Frankly even with Cann in the lineup i don't think anyone is going to fool themselves into saying "he's the CB" we've been looking for to stabilize the back.

As far as "learning the system" goes ... well the only reason you do something like that in the short term is if you're better off in the long run. So it only serves to underscore what ensco has said about expectations for next year.


True, but but when you lose two of your CB to injury, and only have your back ups and playing people out of position, it's going to have an effect. And yes there are going be goals that Cann or Nana (in form) would have stopped over Harden.

There would have been points we picked up that we lost out on.

It wasn't going make us amazing but it would have made us less bad during the low point of the season.

But yes next season needs to have results and all signs point that we will be good to go. Might not the best team in the league but we are on the right track.

[Oldtimer]

I think by now 80-90% of people would agree with your statement,myself included.

+1, well said, ensco.

[brad]

Don't forget that it took an act of God for TFC to even make it in.

We don't know that. We know we were one goal down with a lot of football to play when the game got called. We have no idea how the game would have played out if not called off.

[brad]

True, but but when you lose two of your CB to injury, and only have your back ups and playing people out of position, it's going to have an effect. And yes there are going be goals that Cann or Nana (in form) would have stopped over Harden.

There would have been points we picked up that we lost out on.

It wasn't going make us amazing but it would have made us less bad during the low point of the season.

But yes next season needs to have results and all signs point that we will be good to go. Might not the best team in the league but we are on the right track.

100% agree. Also worth noting that if Cann and Williams were fit it also means Iro probably wouldn't have been out there much (if we even would have signed him) and we probably would have been able to use Frings more in the midfield more than as a stop gap CB.

[brad]

An interesting note on stats - Cochrane mentioned in the town hall that most of they key statistical indicators that are tied to succes on the pitch were way up after the transfer window. Things like possession in the attacking third (he mentioned others but I foget what they were).

Obviously those are only indicators and need to get turned into results - but IMHO stats based purely on results only tell a limited story when trying to gauge if the team actually did improve.

[J .]

IMO this tournament performance, which was largely conducted mid-week with plenty of travel, deserves at least equal billing with the infamous 2011 MLS record.


A handful of games vs an entire schedule is not a balance.

Look at it like this, in October they won 1 out of 4 games. Pretty mediocre at best.


An interesting note on stats - Cochrane mentioned in the town hall that most of they key statistical indicators that are tied to succes on the pitch were way up after the transfer window. Things like possession in the attacking third (he mentioned others but I foget what they were).

Obviously those are only indicators and need to get turned into results - but IMHO stats based purely on results only tell a limited story when trying to gauge if the team actually did improve.


Going from embarrassing to mediocre is not good enough.

[Shakes McQueen]

Out of the cauldron of all this Winter discussion, I see a pretty clear alignment of opinion now. I'd be willing to bet something like 80-90% of people would agree with the following statement about WinterMariner:

"While it's immensely frustrating to have our team finish at the bottom of MLS again, we played a lot better in the second half. WinterMariner signed two DPs that were immediately effective, which is something not many managements in MLS have done in the DP market historically. We had an unexpected gift in the CCL. The Dero thing, well, while it may be a shame, who knows what would have happened if he had stayed, and you can't really blame WinterMariner for what happened.

But it was a lost season, and many moves didn't pan out. So we expect the team to make good signings in the offseason, be competitive, start strongly, and be in serious playoff contention, next year. If they don't, our support for current management will prove short-lived".

This is a good summation of how I look at this season, though I think it was a bit harsh to characterize the CCL win as a gift.

- Scott