PDA

View Full Version : Philly v. TFC pre-match thread (not the biggest game ever)



Oldtimer
10-13-2011, 10:39 AM
The match few care about... except that most want Winter to rest a few key players for the Dallas match 3 days later.

It will be on the FAN590 radio, and TSN for TV. No webstream yet. 4PM Eastern.

Many of us may be reduced to listening to it on the radio.

mowe
10-13-2011, 11:18 AM
Winter better rest Koevermans, Frings, De Guzman, and Eckersley. It remains to be seen how many he actually does. I want to see Plata get subbed on in the second half and get some minutes in before hopefully an expanded role against Dallas.

Auzzy
10-13-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm really hoping we get to see some of the kids & newcomers: Oscar Cordon, Kyle Davies, Leandre Griffit, Doneil Henry, Demitrius Omphroy, etc.

Unfortunately, knowing Winter, I'm afraid we will still see quite a few of the regular starters...

KGH
10-13-2011, 11:48 AM
I'd also like to see the Davies kid. God knows we need some help at CB and maybe this is the kid for the job.

__wowza
10-13-2011, 11:56 AM
not dressing the A-team, etc.

Canary10
10-13-2011, 11:57 AM
They've had quite a bit of rest. I hope they mostly go with the full team minus anyone nursing injuries (Koevermans, Eckersley). Would love to see Plata back out there again.

BuSaPuNk
10-13-2011, 12:01 PM
Sure the leauge doesn't matter but I want a win on my birthday dam it! lol

Would love to see some youth put in and rest the key guys for the Dallas game.

ManUtd4ever
10-13-2011, 12:06 PM
History dictates that Winter will likely dress the best possible starting lineup against Philly, despite the ramifications of the ensuing CCL match in Dallas.

I just hope that the recent extended layoff will give the boys enough energy to perform well in both matches.

JonO
10-13-2011, 12:15 PM
^ To be fair, this is our first truly meaningless game this season, no? Also, not sure how the long rest will affect the starters. Maybe some would prefer to shake the rust off before the Dallas game...

Pookie
10-13-2011, 12:18 PM
^ couple of schools of thought.

If you've been off for multiple days and have 2 matches in 4 days, is it better to go into that second match well rested or cold?

Hindsight will be the judge here. Lose in Dallas and Winter will be faulted for either choice. Just the way it is.

If they had matches or heavy travel leading to this, I'd probably rest them. Since they have been off, I'd probably get them minutes leading into the Dallas game as use the Philly match as an opportunity to practice set pieces or other in game tactics that they want to use against Dallas.

Redcoe15
10-13-2011, 01:26 PM
I hope Winter does rest some key players for the match in Philadelphia. I think the Union would want to win this one badly as it will help them win the Eastern Conference. I don't see a win here, especially given the trouncing they gave our side earlier on this season.

Carts
10-13-2011, 01:57 PM
I called the club, offered my playing services for the match

Detroit_TFC
10-13-2011, 03:53 PM
Winter should use the Philly game as an early 2012 squad try-out for everyone on the bubble. However, anybody seriously thinking he will do that hasn't been paying enough attention. He'll field the starters.

KGH
10-13-2011, 04:06 PM
Does anyone know what happened to Ecks?

Couchy81
10-13-2011, 04:09 PM
Winter should use the Philly game as an early 2012 squad try-out for everyone on the bubble. However, anybody seriously thinking he will do that hasn't been paying enough attention. He'll field the starters.

Of course he will and then Koevermans will be gassed at the 55minute mark in Dallas. I want to have faith in Winter, if he rests the starters he will have it from me going forward.

Auzzy
10-13-2011, 05:12 PM
Does anyone know what happened to Ecks?

He hurt his hamstring in the last game he played, vs. Pumas.

T-boy
10-13-2011, 06:07 PM
It's not necessarily about "resting the starters" as most should be match fit and able to play two games on the trot.

However...it IS about getting some meaningful game time for the fringe players. Playing some of the "should we keep them or not" players in a proper league game is prime opportunity to see if they can cut it.

I'd love to see Gold, Omphroy, Sturgis, Viator, Davies, Griffit etc in this one, just to see who stands out. This could essentially be their "trial" for next season.

Playing in reserve games is ok, but players really need first team games to see if they can cut MLS level first team football.

I bet my left hand that Winter doesn't do this tho :(

ensco
10-13-2011, 07:17 PM
This is a tougher call than it looks.

I don't think Winter can sit very many players. Even if we sit people....if we get pasted 6-0 or something, it's de-motivating, which is tough to just shrug off by Tuesday night....

Philly are good. They won away at Seattle last week. Philly still need this game badly. Even if TFC played everyone, this game might be one-sided.

TFC need a respectable outing Saturday.

[NBF]
10-13-2011, 08:50 PM
Dallas FC vs. Whitecaps FC: I think the Caps will start their best available lineup to save face for the season and also to stick it to TFC, because I think they will have it in mind that TFC played a reserve Montreal team in 2009 to take the Canadian Championship.

Dallas FC, Im sure they will rest some of its important players like Shea and save the best lineup to stomp on TFC for the CCL.

TFC vs Union: I dont think it matters whether we field the best available lineup, if TFC decides to save its players for Tuesday the players will be playing a strong Dallas team that can afford to leave its players out of the Weekend match, so on paper both teams will likely field their best available players on Tuesday.

TFC on the other hand will suffer "twice" if they lose the CCL match and on the weekend because a Vancouver win vs Dallas will put them level with TFC at 31 points.

NBS
10-13-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm conflicted on this one.

Too much rest isn't a good thing. You also don't want to gas the guys heading into the CCL match, but you only have 3 subs. At the very least have your key forward, midfielder and defender sub out of the match regardless of scoreline is what I'd say.

Waggy
10-13-2011, 10:05 PM
I love the sentiment of people saying "Of course Winter will put out a first team" based on his "history of doing it". Winter has been in that position as a coach exactly once in his life. And it didn't work out. Based on the first strategy he tried going 0/1, isn't it at least possible, if not likely, that he'd try a different strategy?

Realistically after 14 days off everyone should be able to handle 2 games in 4 days. The last time we were in this situation it was 2 games in 4 days, preceded by 3 games in a week and followed by another game 3 days later. It makes sense everyone would be tired heading into the Chivas game. This game, no excuses. Play everyone who isn't hurt. Sub them as soon as they feel tired or even the slightest of tweaks

Couchy81
10-13-2011, 10:36 PM
Keep in mind you don't want key players getting injured either. This essentially meaningless league match is a few days before the biggest game of the year, arguably of TFC's history.

Auzzy
10-13-2011, 11:47 PM
I love the sentiment of people saying "Of course Winter will put out a first team" based on his "history of doing it". Winter has been in that position as a coach exactly once in his life. And it didn't work out. Based on the first strategy he tried going 0/1, isn't it at least possible, if not likely, that he'd try a different strategy?

Realistically after 14 days off everyone should be able to handle 2 games in 4 days. The last time we were in this situation it was 2 games in 4 days, preceded by 3 games in a week and followed by another game 3 days later. It makes sense everyone would be tired heading into the Chivas game. This game, no excuses. Play everyone who isn't hurt. Sub them as soon as they feel tired or even the slightest of tweaks

Although I've generally been very open-minded & patient towards Winter, my concern about roster selection does not stem only from the Chivas & Pumas games. There have been other similar head-scratcher situations (even if not totally the same). For example, playing Alan Gordon in the 2nd game vs Edmonton comes to mind. Gordon was still somewhat injured at the time, and promptly re-injured himself in that game. After that, he wasn't available for over a month, and TFC suffered through many poor results. We were up 3-0 vs Edmonton at the time, with 3 away goals in the first leg. You would think the team could have held on vs Edmonton, at home at BMO Field, w/o risking an injured Gordon in that game.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-14-2011, 12:22 AM
If you've been off for multiple days and have 2 matches in 4 days, is it better to go into that second match well rested or cold?

my biggest thought right here.
if it had been a heavy month sure, rest em, but it hasnt...

Oldtimer
10-14-2011, 07:28 AM
Winter will start and play for the full 90 Avila for sure, since he's cap-tied and can't play for TFC in the CCL until the next stage.

Winter has tipped off his strategy:


“If you’re going to think that you’re going to save and spare a lot of players in the game in Philadelphia, it could also be negative for the game after,” said head coach Aron Winter, whose TFC squad hasn't played since a 1-1 tie against New York on Oct. 1. “I want to have a good feeling for the whole team ... because most of the players haven’t played for two or three weeks, only training. That’s not good to get the feeling back.
“Of course, I always want to play with the strongest team, but in my mind, I’m always thinking if during the game it is possible to take some players off, then I’m going to do it for sure.”
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/10/winter-eckersley-waiting-game


He will play first team players, but take them off early.

__wowza
10-14-2011, 08:02 AM
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/10/winter-eckersley-waiting-game

makes sense. winter is kinda on the fence about starting the B-team due to the fact that they havent played in 2 weeks.

Oldtimer
10-14-2011, 08:09 AM
Frings I think can play both matches for the full 90, if he's healthy.

Koevs is the one I worry about. I would prefer he not play at all.

T-boy
10-14-2011, 08:51 AM
Winter will start and play for the full 90 Avila for sure, since he's cap-tied and can't play for TFC in the CCL until the next stage.

Winter has tipped off his strategy:


http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/10/winter-eckersley-waiting-game


He will play first team players, but take them off early.

What, all 11 of them?! haha!

Winter and company, and some of the fans, need to swallow their pride and any thought of Vancouver finishing above us, and we need to play the squad players in this one. If we don't see the fringe players in a first team game before the end of the season, it really will go against this so called "rebuilding season".

One minute all you guys are "its a rebuilding season, we don't care about the results yet", the next its "play the first team, we don't want to lose".

Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways! If this is truly a rebuilding season, we need to see the fringe players in this game, end of story. If its all about "results NOW", then sure, play the first team.

Ossington Mental Youth
10-14-2011, 09:39 AM
One minute all you guys are "its a rebuilding season, we don't care about the results yet", the next its "play the first team, we don't want to lose".

Unfortunately, we can't have it both ways! If this is truly a rebuilding season, we need to see the fringe players in this game, end of story. If its all about "results NOW", then sure, play the first team.

HAHAHA too true, im totally guilty of it. I only use the rebuilding season/reasoning when we lose.

Technorgasm
10-14-2011, 09:47 AM
a nice surprise win would be a lovely additon to the weekend. . .

mowe
10-14-2011, 10:13 AM
Eckersley is out for this game (and probably against Dallas, too :(). Frings didn't practice yesterday, should be available but likely also out. Looks like we're left with:

----------------Kocic---------------
Stinson---Harden---Iro---Morgan
---------De Guz------Dunfield-----
Marosevic------Avila------Johnson
-------------Koevermans-----------

Sub out Koevermans at the half for Plata, take out De Guzman and Johnson early too.

I've already started to be nervous about the Dallas game :frown:.

prizby
10-14-2011, 11:06 AM
The match few care about... except that most want Winter to rest a few key players for the Dallas match 3 days later.

It will be on the FAN590 radio, and TSN for TV. No webstream yet. 4PM Eastern.

Many of us may be reduced to listening to it on the radio.

umm don't most people get tsn?

Oldtimer
10-14-2011, 12:05 PM
umm don't most people get tsn?

Many do, but many others don't. Most general sports fans do. People who only like footy might have Stetanta + GOL however.

T-boy
10-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Eckersley is out for this game (and probably against Dallas, too :(). Frings didn't practice yesterday, should be available but likely also out. Looks like we're left with:

----------------Kocic---------------
Stinson---Harden---Iro---Morgan
---------De Guz------Dunfield-----
Marosevic------Avila------Johnson
-------------Koevermans-----------

Sub out Koevermans at the half for Plata, take out De Guzman and Johnson early too.

I've already started to be nervous about the Dallas game :frown:.


I think I'd like to see Omphroy in place of Stinson, put Stinson in the midfield and rest JDG (who played two games last week anyways, so he could probably have a rest in this one). Dunfield also played two last week, so we could replace him too (Gold possibly?). We could put Soolsma in place of Johnson on the left, and move Johnson up front to make sure Koev is totally fit for Tuesday. (I guess this shows our lack of depth up front, as we don't have nother striker to play in the middle...do we?).

Auzzy
10-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Many do, but many others don't. Most general sports fans do. People who only like footy might have Stetanta + GOL however.

Plus, if you don't have cable, you're screwed with TSN. GolTV MLS games are available on MLS MatchDay Live (which I have); most CCL games were available on official web streams; etc. TSN games -- no options, and the supply of unofficial web streams has been drying up IMO. Plus I don't like to be dependent on that, it's always somewhat hit & miss.

Auzzy
10-14-2011, 12:23 PM
I think I'd like to see Omphroy in place of Stinson, put Stinson in the midfield and rest JDG (who played two games last week anyways, so he could probably have a rest in this one). Dunfield also played two last week, so we could replace him too (Gold possibly?). We could put Soolsma in place of Johnson on the left, and move Johnson up front to make sure Koev is totally fit for Tuesday. (I guess this shows our lack of depth up front, as we don't have nother striker to play in the middle...do we?).

Johnson definitely shouldn't play the full 90 vs Philly IMO, if we're hoping to get anything out of him in Dallas. He's looked gassed after less than 1/2 a game in all the recent games.

nascarguy
10-14-2011, 02:30 PM
so there is no way we can make it in to the playoffs this season

Auzzy
10-14-2011, 02:32 PM
so there is no way we can make it in to the playoffs this season

Ah ha ha ha....

Well if about 5 teams fold & close up shop before the playoffs start, we should have a chance.. :D

nascarguy
10-14-2011, 02:42 PM
Ah ha ha ha....

Well if about 5 teams fold & close up shop before the playoffs start, we should have a chance.. :D
yeah that's what I thought i say just send the kids in for the next two mls games.

NBS
10-14-2011, 03:39 PM
I don't like the idea of playing Koevermans, Morgan and at least one of our D at all. I consider those players truly irreplaceable with our current squad if there should be an injury.

moralis
10-14-2011, 03:49 PM
If anyone is interested our junior academy team is playing right now against Philadelphia Union's academy team. Senior academy team will also play the union at 6:00 P.M. Both games are played in Philadelphia.

http://twitter.com/#!/yscsports

T-boy
10-14-2011, 10:24 PM
Johnson definitely shouldn't play the full 90 vs Philly IMO, if we're hoping to get anything out of him in Dallas. He's looked gassed after less than 1/2 a game in all the recent games.

I'm not sure I agree actually. I mean, he does look gassed...but I'm not convinced he IS gassed. It looks more like he just hasn't got a clue how to move off the ball! He's enthusiastic and energetic enough with the ball at his feet, but when he doesn't have it, he looks like a lost puppy, just standing still waiting for somebody to gift him the ball! I hope I'm wrong tho, cos you can't really teach somebody off the ball movement, you have either got it and understand naturally where to run, or you don't!

Waggy
10-15-2011, 10:38 AM
People are complaining about our games being on the country's biggest sports network? TSN isn't exactly sportsnet one here, if you don't get TSN you have to expect to miss a lot of games. I think way more of our games should be on TSN. They could BLOW this sport up in Canada. Look at how they turned the CFL around. CBC is great, but they aren't really great at marketing a sport. The CFL was dying there. And sportsnet, eh, not a huge fan. Definitely not a fan of the Gol TV games (and I have Gol TV), it's ridiculous to put games on a channel so few people have.

Anyways, I hope to see most of the first team, with Danny and anyone who picked up a knock or tweaked something coming out by the 60th. Come on you Reds! We can still pull off this game!

oranje boven
10-15-2011, 10:49 AM
I saw the team travel thru the airport yesterday and heard that the team is all healthy heading into the weekend. Look for the players who had international duty to rest today. I didnt even see JDG but that doesnt mean he didnt travel to Phil, I may have missed him.
No way Winter will throw away the Philly game he's too competitive but I think he'll give some minutes to Danny and then sub him.

TFC07
10-15-2011, 10:57 AM
People are complaining about our games being on the country's biggest sports network? TSN isn't exactly sportsnet one here, if you don't get TSN you have to expect to miss a lot of games. I think way more of our games should be on TSN. They could BLOW this sport up in Canada. Look at how they turned the CFL around. CBC is great, but they aren't really great at marketing a sport. The CFL was dying there. And sportsnet, eh, not a huge fan. Definitely not a fan of the Gol TV games (and I have Gol TV), it's ridiculous to put games on a channel so few people have.

Anyways, I hope to see most of the first team, with Danny and anyone who picked up a knock or tweaked something coming out by the 60th. Come on you Reds! We can still pull off this game!

Besides one pro league, TSN hasn't made any other non-winter team sports popular (look at their basketball and soccer coverage for proof).

CBC is probably only network that gives proper MLS coverage (pregame and sometimes postgame) which none of other networks provide. They seem to put more effort in production when comes to MLS than Sportsnet/TSN/TheScore. Also, CBC reaches more households than TSN.

TFC USA
10-15-2011, 12:32 PM
I miss MLS on CBC for obvious reasons. :(

snoopdog
10-15-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm down in Philly for the game today, and I'm hoping Winter puts the best team we have on the field today. Sorry to say but we (TFC) need to win this game big, and give our boys a boost! After the beating we took at home, I think it's only polite we return the favour. We need to take care of business today and deal with Dalls when that day comes.

Live for today, tomorrow may never come!

Com-On-You Reds!

UltraSuperMegaMo
10-15-2011, 01:43 PM
^ I think probably in the minority in thinking that TFC should field their strongest lineup. I think we can mix and match a little in the mid. and in the defence and not have too big a drop off, I think our problem lays with the forwards. I don't think our B line of forwards will cause many teams problems.

Waggy
10-15-2011, 01:49 PM
Besides one pro league, TSN hasn't made any other non-winter team sports popular (look at their basketball and soccer coverage for proof).

CBC is probably only network that gives proper MLS coverage (pregame and sometimes postgame) which none of other networks provide. They seem to put more effort in production when comes to MLS than Sportsnet/TSN/TheScore. Also, CBC reaches more households than TSN.


Other then that one pro league what other sport have they been told to market? The Raptors give them 15-20 games a year, and TFC/Shitecaps haven't given them that many games. 100% of CFL games are on TSN, I don't think you can expect the same kind of impact for soccer, where they might show 1 MLS game every 2 weeks. If TSN got broadcasting rights for most/every TFC or Vancouver game then it would be reasonable (and I think that kind of coverage would have a similar impact).

Either way, I liked the CBC broadcasts, and I STRONGLY prefer them to Sportsnet1 or Gol TV, but to compare CBC sports to TSN coverage of sports is laughable. TSN has almost caught up to CBC in hockey coverage, they destroyed them in basketball, DEMOLISHED them in Football, beat them handily in the Olympics etc. etc. I'd trust them to be able to showcase local soccer properly if given the chance.

Lennon
10-15-2011, 01:53 PM
I think I'd like to see Omphroy in place of Stinson, put Stinson in the midfield and rest JDG (who played two games last week anyways, so he could probably have a rest in this one). Dunfield also played two last week, so we could replace him too (Gold possibly?). We could put Soolsma in place of Johnson on the left, and move Johnson up front to make sure Koev is totally fit for Tuesday. (I guess this shows our lack of depth up front, as we don't have nother striker to play in the middle...do we?).

Omphroy is no longer a fulback (http://rednationonline.ca/MoveForwardExcitingForOmphroy.aspx) ..

Red CB Toronto
10-15-2011, 02:14 PM
Looks like Winter is sitting some today, the starting lineup is:
Kocic, Henry, Harden, Iro, Morgan, Frings, Stinson, Avila, Soolsma, Johnson and Plata.

Koevermans is starting the day on the bench.

UltraSuperMegaMo
10-15-2011, 02:15 PM
^ That's interesting. I knew he had played at forward for the reserves, but I didn't realize that it was a part of an ongoing changing of his position. Maybe they should give him a run out today.

Auzzy
10-15-2011, 02:26 PM
People are complaining about our games being on the country's biggest sports network? TSN isn't exactly sportsnet one here, if you don't get TSN you have to expect to miss a lot of games. I think way more of our games should be on TSN. They could BLOW this sport up in Canada. Look at how they turned the CFL around. CBC is great, but they aren't really great at marketing a sport. The CFL was dying there. And sportsnet, eh, not a huge fan. Definitely not a fan of the Gol TV games (and I have Gol TV), it's ridiculous to put games on a channel so few people have.

Anyways, I hope to see most of the first team, with Danny and anyone who picked up a knock or tweaked something coming out by the 60th. Come on you Reds! We can still pull off this game!

I don't mind TFC being on TSN, at least in theory. Their TFC productions have been crappy so far, and they've had big transmission problems for a couple of games (don't know why, maybe not their fault, but I haven't noticed the same things on the other channels...) -- but perhaps if they stick with it and get a few more games, they would put on a better show. I know it's an important channel & a good way to snare more sports fans. Too bad they can't at least schedule a 10-minute pre-game show though. I also wish they would make a deal with MLS MatchDay Live to allow the legal streams (like GolTV has done), or stream it themselves (like CBC always did). Heck, charge me $2 per game or something, I don't care.

Even if you have cable, you need a big expensive package in order to get TSN. I know many footy fans who don't have TSN, because they're not into all kinds of other sports, and TSN isn't worth it for soccer so far.

In the meantime, I still wish TFC were on CBC...

Auzzy
10-15-2011, 02:31 PM
BTW, any streams available? Hope I don't have to drag my kids to a bar to watch this, I'm on day care duty today... :D

Thanks!

Auzzy
10-15-2011, 02:56 PM
??? Any streams ???

This guy is supposedly showing the game according to the Justin TV overview page -- but he's actually showing Spanish Gol TV with some other game: http://www.justin.tv/cholillo_834#/w/1913480576/2

Dkolish3
10-15-2011, 02:59 PM
??? Any streams ???

This guy is supposedly showing the game according to the Justin TV overview page -- but he's actually showing Spanish Gol TV with some other game: http://www.justin.tv/cholillo_834#/w/1913480576/2

This guy usually shows it, just wait a couple minutes

Auzzy
10-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Yup, thanks, he's just switched away from La Liga.

Dkolish3
10-15-2011, 03:01 PM
This guy usually shows it, just wait a couple minutes
Success!