Yohan's player assessment for 2011 season [Archive]

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Yohan

10-06-2011, 12:46 PM

Since I'm procrastinating today, my assessment of players, who should be kept, fired, or undecided.

Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - KEEP
-As of right now, only real AM in the squad. Has shown glimpse of being able to develop into genuine quarterback that TFC has been lacking since Guevara.

Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - FIRE
-Has pace and decent cross, but defensively weak, especially in marking and positioning. Also seems lost when asked to play LW. Makes league minimum so is a cheap depth, but not worth an int spot. (though maybe keep him if he's got an US green card)

Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - FIRE
-Big question as he was injured all season. Has decent pedigree, but coming off a season long injury, his age, plus that TFC is stacked at DM means he'll be expendable. (and a 90k salary)

Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - KEEP
-TFC defence missed Cann after he got injured. Getting a bit older, and recovering from a serious injury doesn't help, but I expect Cann to be one of two CB starters. That is, if he got over his little dispute with Winter. (BTW Cann did get a bump in salary to 125k base, up from 70k in 2010)

Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
-Shown flashes of talent, but I think the pressure of playing in more physical MLS got to him and he fell down the depth chart. Still young, and could develop into something. If Stefan Vukovic signs for TFC, he'd fall even further down the chart. I think a season long loan at NASL/USL level will do him good next season.

Kyle Davis - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe
-Haven't seen Davis in action, so really can't say. Though coming up from Southampton youth system and former US U20 captain says something. Should be interesting to see how he does in next year's training camp.

Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Maybe
-Finally JDG began to put together the sort of performances expected him when he was signed by TFC. He will be fighting with Frings for spot at DM, because I don't think he's consistent enough at CM. Keeps falling back to DM mentality which he's best at. If TFC is willing to buy out rest of his contract and have another DP ready to sign, JDG becomes expendable.

Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
-The bulldog DM. At only 65k salary, great depth DM at TFC.

Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep
-By far the best defender this year. Persistent doggedness when defending, with flair for picking the right time to make attacking runs. One of best RB in MLS. Hoping TFC can come up with the right transfer fee and salary for Eckersley to stay.

Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
-Lately slowed down to injury and Milos Kocic's form, but still has the ability to come up with huge saves to keep TFC in the game. I think the rumours of Frei going to Europe has settled down, and Frei may turn out to be another solid, but not too great MLS keeper.

Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
-Undisputed captain of TFC. One of those players that leads by example and motivates others. Probably best leader on the field since Carl Robinson. Shown versatility by adapting to play in sweeper role.

Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Keep
-A 3rd rounder who turned out to be versatile utility player, playing in DM and RB. Every team needs a few of these guys.

Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Fire
-Once highly touted prospect, but injury and lack of playing time has killed his football. Since recovering injury, he's like the last guy on the depth chart on wing. Makes league minimum, but takes up an international slot.

Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep
-Prone to defensive lapses, and not the fastest of defenders, but no one can question Harden's work ethic and attitude. One of most improved players under Winter throughout the season. Good enough for depth, unless better CB at his salary (65K) can be found.

Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
-Had his share of good moments, but also costly mistakes. Talented enough that he might turn into a solid MLS defender. Shown improvement throughout the season. I think he could also use a loan at NASL/USL level for regular game time.

Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Maybe
-Has physical attributes to be a dominant CB, but lacks pace and mental capacity to play regularly at MLS level. I think he's got a green card, and a moderate salary (68k), so a depth CB at best.

Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
-Versatile and pacey attacker who has the ability to be a decent striker at MLS level, but needs to work on consistency. Seemed to have bloomed under more attacking style game of Winter than more defence first style of Frank Yallop.

Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
-A year of playing at CSL, winning GK of the year award has done a lot to Kocic's confidence. Stepped up when Frei got injured. Cheap at league minimum.

Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
-TFC may have their first 15 goal striker in Koevermans who has shown that he can finish with the limited chances he did get. Target man strikers seems to do well for TFC and Koeverman has the pedigree and lethal finish, plus showing up at the right place at the right time. Worth a DP spot.

Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Keep
-Hoping that his injury will not slow his development, and that he could challenge for at least depth spot next year.

Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Maybe
-I think he made the step up to MLS too fast. Needs a loan to CSL/USL so that he can get regular game time to build his confidence.

Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
-One of better Mariner signings. Versatile, cost 75k. Excellent depth. Pops up at right place at right time, scoring some key goals for TFC so far. Former US U20 player who I think can acquire that bit of polish to complete his game under Winter.

Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Fire
-Former Ajax youth product that has shown that he's got the technical ability, but not the mentality to grind it out in physical MLS game. Too expensive at 90k and an international spot to see if he can turn his game around next season.

Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
-Recently locked down the LB spot as his own. Has decent pace and attacking flair and really improved defensive side of his game. A little bit of polish, especially on positioning and crossing, and TFC may have a solid MLS LB for years to come.

Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Maybe
-Another question mark as Omphroy has hardly played. Apparently he's a hard worker, but a bit of unknown.

Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep
-One of most exciting player to put on TFC jersey with hard working attitude and talent to match, especially blessed with blistering pace. Needs to work on decision making, as he tries to take on defenders 1v1 too much and crossing. Hoping TFC can pay the right transfer fee and sign Plata to permanent contract.

Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Maybe
-Unlike Martina, Soolsma was able to adjust to physical aspect of MLS game to be more effective. Looks 'lumbering' so his average pace looks slower than it is. Blessed with good technical skills to beat a defender 1v1 but needs better crossing skill. He's a depth player, and at 86k and an international spot, it remains to be seen whether Soolsma is worth keeping, hoping that he could turn into a starter.

Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
-Another young player to surprise many people with some solid performances. A lot of his game is raw, but could turn into solid MLS player.

Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Fire
-Once highly regarded US U20 prospect, but injuries has taken its toll and Sturgis could not keep up with Winter's system. Versatile, being able to play DM and multiple defence positions, with decent set piece ability. But fallen too deep in depth chart and 85k salary to be worth keeping.

Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Fire
-I think Viator was a bit of panic buy, a stop gap measure for a poor TFC defence, except Viator hasn't impressed when he got to play. Lots of experience in French Ligue 2, so he isn't exactly junk, but too expensive at 90k and an international spot to keep around.

Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Keep
-Has put in okay performance before he got injured. Good enough for depth at 50k.

Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Fire
-A left back who is not very good at defending, so was asked to play as winger and central midfielder for a while. Makes good attacking runs and has decent technic, but 80k and an international spot means he's not worth keeping.

Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Keep
-Good depth player at league minimum and a domestic. Injuries throughout the season did not get him to show his full ability, but I didn't think he was absolutely terrible that he should be cut, considering his salary.

Whoop

10-06-2011, 12:52 PM

Unless you're a starter or a very good bench player, those that take up an international spot should be let go.

Soolsma might be the only guy of the bubble guys to keep. Let Griffit, Yourassowsky, Martina, and Viator go and look for better international players, possibly even cheaper if possible.

Waggy

10-06-2011, 12:56 PM

I thought Iro's dream was to play for Nigeria? :D

Can't disagree with much there. Though I'd like to keep JDG, just with a non DP salary. I don't think he's worth more than 400k a season, and I don't think he'd command that kind of salary from anyone (unless Vancouver or MTL are as desperate for a Canadian DP as we were). Also I'd have a hard time cutting young players who never got a shot with the first team unless they were dumped to clear space for a specific person, not just generally opening a roster spot. No need to dump young talent unless we have to

Roogsy

10-06-2011, 01:00 PM

I am not disagreeing or agreeing with anything here, just making an observation.

When I look at a comment and read that $90k may or may not be too much for a player (like Martina or Viator), I realize how far MLS still has to go.

Yohan

10-06-2011, 01:01 PM

ManUtd4ever

10-06-2011, 01:08 PM

The following players should be retained for the first team next season:

G- Frei, Kocic

D- Cann, Williams, Eckersley, Morgan, Henry, Davies, Omphroy

M- Frings, JDG, Dunfield, Stinson, Cordon, Gold

F- Koevermans, Johnson, Plata, Avila, Marosevic, Soolsma, Lindsay, Makabuya

Everyone else is expendable and should be replaced in the off season.

Empirical

10-06-2011, 01:08 PM

Globetrotter

10-06-2011, 01:08 PM

You've played it safe, said what we already know, and is general agreed upon, but used how much time to write all that?

Empirical

10-06-2011, 01:08 PM

The following players should be retained for the first team next season:

G- Frei, Kocic

D- Cann, Williams, Eckersley, Morgan, Henry

M- Frings, JDG, Dunfield, Stinson

F- Koevermans, Johnson, Plata, Avila, Marosevic, Soolsma

Everyone else is expendable and should be replaced in the off season.

good thing you have no control over this. we have young guys because they get good as they get older and stay with the team.

ManUtd4ever

10-06-2011, 01:13 PM

good thing you have no control over this. we have young guys because they get good as they get older and stay with the team.

I edited my post to include the Academy players/draft picks. I agree that they should all be retained for future development.

mastermixer

10-06-2011, 01:14 PM

Stouffville_RPB

10-06-2011, 01:18 PM

Since I'm procrastinating today, my assessment of players, who should be kept, fired, or undecided.

Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - KEEP
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - FIRE
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - FIRE
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - KEEP
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Kyle Davis - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Maybe
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Keep
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Fire
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Maybe
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Keep
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Maybe
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Fire
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Maybe
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Maybe
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Fire
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Fire
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Keep
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Fire
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Keep

I think you are right on most of players. I like the idea of loaning out the youngsters so long as we still make the roster restrictions.

I think Borman or Yourassowsky will stick since they can play multiple positions.

I think we could be looking for a new RB. As much as he may want to stay and as much as TFC want him I think Ecks goes back to Burnley. He makes more money sitting on the bench there and it isn't worth paying a RB the big MLS money. Best defender TFC has ever had though.

JDG doesn't come back. He took too long to elevate his game to where it should be and now we have Frings and others to fill the position. The cap space gained could go towards filling one or more of the other holes in the squad.

Yohan

10-06-2011, 01:22 PM

I think we could be looking for a new RB. As much as he may want to stay and as much as TFC want him I think Ecks goes back to Burnley. He makes more money sitting on the bench there and it isn't worth paying a RB the big MLS money. Best defender TFC has ever had though. Depends on whether Eck would rather be playing first team mins or sit on his ass. TFC was first team that he got consistent first team mins for. Would he give that up for a bench?
JDG doesn't come back. He took too long to elevate his game to where it should be and now we have Frings and others to fill the position. The cap space gained could go towards filling one or more of the other holes in the squad. I thought it was confirmed that his contract was until 2012, and MLSE is not looking to buy out his contract

Canary10

10-06-2011, 01:34 PM

My impression from the town hall is JDG is back next year to finish his contract.

Which I think is good personally, as Dunfield isn't a replacement for him imo.

Detroit_TFC

10-06-2011, 01:35 PM

Omphroy will stay. He's been identified for longer term investment in training and a slow, cautious progression toward the first squad.

As for Ecks, it's not so much about whether or not he wants to stay, it's more about how much Burnley is going to want to let him go.

Yohan

10-06-2011, 01:39 PM

As for Ecks, it's not so much about whether or not he wants to stay, it's more about how much Burnley is going to want to let him go.
My understanding is that Burnley hasn't shown much interest in keeping Eck. Plus they'd be happy with losing Eck's wages, no?

Wull

10-06-2011, 01:45 PM

Chicago seems to be wanting a lot of our players ...........

__wowza

10-06-2011, 02:13 PM

HEY EVERYBODY! LET'S BLOW UP TEH TEAM AGAIN!!

http://www.boston.com/ae/sidekick/blog/atombombX.gif

/trolling.

__wowza

10-06-2011, 02:20 PM

Since I'm procrastinating today

i am too, hence my avatar.
in terms of the squad. something tells me that the fringe is going to be cut in the offseason. i like what ive seen from sturgis originally, but he seems to have fallen out of favour. same with martina.

the youth has been impressing me tremendously.

Huyton

10-06-2011, 02:27 PM

Chicago seems to be wanting a lot of our players ...........

We can only hope we're not looking for Impact players.

Stouffville_RPB

10-06-2011, 02:44 PM

Depends on whether Eck would rather be playing first team mins or sit on his ass. TFC was first team that he got consistent first team mins for. Would he give that up for a bench?

I thought it was confirmed that his contract was until 2012, and MLSE is not looking to buy out his contract

Don't you loan players out so that they improve for when they come back for you? If I'm Burnley I'm looking at what Ecks has done this season here and see someone who can play a role for my club. Possibly a sub or spot starter. Burnley have to be happy with the way this loan has gone.

I thought JDG was a 3 year deal but I've been wrong before.

Yohan

10-06-2011, 02:51 PM

Don't you loan players out so that they improve for when they come back for you? If I'm Burnley I'm looking at what Ecks has done this season here and see someone who can play a role for my club. Possibly a sub or spot starter. Burnley have to be happy with the way this loan has gone.

At least Eckersley seems to be disappointed by lack of communication from Burnley during his loan.

You also loan out players, in hoping that that player impresses enough to make the transfer permanent

Stouffville_RPB

10-06-2011, 02:59 PM

At least Eckersley seems to be disappointed by lack of communication from Burnley during his loan.

You also loan out players, in hoping that that player impresses enough to make the transfer permanent

I hadn't heard anything like that from Ecks.

and

Yes you do. :D

Yohan

10-06-2011, 03:06 PM

I hadn't heard anything like that from Ecks.

and

Yes you do. :D
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/07/29/sp-mls-tfc-eckersley.html

Eckerlsey admitted he was disappointed that Burnley has not kept in touch with him.
“Obviously, it’s out of sight and out of mind. It’s very strange,” he said.

Klinsmann

10-06-2011, 03:23 PM

Chicago seems to be wanting a lot of our players ...........

That's because PREKI lives in chicago!

ArmenJBX

10-06-2011, 03:33 PM

Terry Dunfield will be making twice his salary next season - he took a pay cut to play for Vancouver.

KGH

10-06-2011, 03:40 PM

At least Eckersley seems to be disappointed by lack of communication from Burnley during his loan.

You also loan out players, in hoping that that player impresses enough to make the transfer permanent

I had a beer one night with Paul and he confirmed the club is very interested in keeping him but Burnley wanted a ~$800k transfer fee.

prizby

10-06-2011, 03:43 PM

good thing you have no control over this. we have young guys because they get good as they get older and stay with the team.

looking at ur list is just as laughable

you want to fire teenagers why?

cuz they haven't played or were injured all year?

Do we have any confirmation if his contract continues through 2012?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/09/11/sp-toronto-fc-deguzman.html

Financial details of the deal were not released, but the club confirmed that the 28-year-old native of Scarborough, Ont., has agreed to terms on a contract that ties him to the club through the 2012 Major League Soccer season.

Yohan

10-06-2011, 03:59 PM

I had a beer one night with Paul and he confirmed the club is very interested in keeping him but Burnley wanted a ~$800k transfer fee.
I think that's what Burnley paid to sign Eckersley in 09. But oh well. Time to look for a new RB

prizby

10-06-2011, 04:27 PM

GK's
Frei (starter)- keep ($175,000)
Kocic (backup)- keep ($65,000)
Needed - 3rd GK (either one of the academy guys or a supplemental pick) ($45,000)

RB
Eckersley (starter) - keep (I) ($135,000)
Omphroy (backup)- keep ($45,000)
Viator - release (I)
Needed - a replacement for Eckersley should he not be retained (if he's really making 500,000 pounds a year, this will be difficult to do)

CB
Cann (starter) - keep ($140,000)
Dicoy (starter) - keep (I) ($75,000)
Iro (3rd CB) - keep ($65,000)
Harden (4th CB) - keep ($65,000)
Davies - keep ($50,000)
Henry - keep ($45,000)
Needed - a true #1 CB, which could very well mean saying bye to some of these centre backs ($175,000)

LB
Morgan (starter) - keep ($45,000)
Borman - release
Needed - a backup for Morgan ($50,000)

CMs (2)
Frings (starter) - keep (I) ($335,000)
De Guzman (starter) - keep ($335,000)
Dunfield (backup) - keep ($70,000)
Bouchiba (backup) - keep (I) ($90,000)
Stinson - keep ($45,000)
Gold - keep ($45,000)
Zavarise - keep ($50,000)
Yourassowsky - release (I)
Sturgis - release

AM
Avila (starter) - keep ($125,000)
Cordon - keep ($45,000)
Griffit - release (I)
Needed - a backup for Avila; Cordon is not ready ($75,000)
Vukovic (signed him from the academy) - keep ($45,000)

Wingers (2)
Johnson (starter) - keep ($135,000)
Plata (starter) - keep (I) ($65,000)
Marosevic (backup) - keep ($95,000)
Lindsay (backup) - keep ($45,000)
Soolsma (backup) - keep (I) ($90,000)
Makubuya - keep ($45,000)
Martina - release (I)

Striker
Koevermans (starter) keep (I) ($335,000)
Needed - a backup for Koef; like a healthy Alan Gordon ($95,000)

Top 20 Salary
Koevermans $335,000
Frings $335,000
De Guzman $335,000
New CB $175,000
Frei $175,000
Cann $140,000
Johnson $135,000
Eckersley $135,000
Avila $125,000
Marosevic $95,000 - 10
Backup ST $95,000
Soolsma $90,000
Bouchiba $90,000
Dicoy $75,000
Backup AM $75,000
Dunfield $70,000
Kocic $65,000
Iro $65,000
Plata $65,000
Harden $65,000

$2,740,000 (for top 20) (note: numbers are rounded and anticipate some raise in salaries)

Based on what I released, we are down to 7 internationals, but still sitting at a roster of 33 (not including the 6 or so draft picks we have between the draft/supplemental)

Soolsma
Bouchiba
Zavarise
Davies
Makubuya
Harden

could all go should space be required leaving us with 5 internationals...really think internationals could be on the chopping block more heavily then domestic

ook time to go vote

prizby

10-06-2011, 04:29 PM

I think that's what Burnley paid to sign Eckersley in 09. But oh well. Time to look for a new RB

they technically didn't pay him...that was compensation due to ManU decided by tribunal for training him as burnley signed him when he was (and still is) u-24

i guess best case scenario is that we just extend the loan for a 2nd year

AlanO

10-06-2011, 04:31 PM

Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - Keep
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - Release
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - Keep (should give him a shot)
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - Keep
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Kyle Davies - 22 - CB - USA - Keep
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Keep (renegotiate contract if at all possible, although JDG doesn't have much incentive to do so)
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep (if his salary demands aren't over ~$125K-$150K)
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep (depending on transfer fee)
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Keep
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Release (surplus)
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep (he's actually been pretty solid the last 4-6 weeks)
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Release (improving but he's too slow)
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Keep
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Keep
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep (I think he's a CF who's playing out of position much of the time; reasonably good cover for Koevermans)
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Release (Soolsma is better option at RW)
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Keep (looks good with reserves; coaching staff seems to be grooming him as a RW tho)
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep (depending on transfer fee)
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Keep
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Release (surplus)
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Release (too expensive)
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Keep
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Release (useless)
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Release (surplus; Gold and Stinson are younger with better upside)

Need:
one or two starting CB
one backup LB (Morgan is doing well)
one backup RB (or starting RB if Ecks leaves)
one starting RW
one AM

Alonso

10-06-2011, 06:25 PM

You've played it safe, said what we already know, and is general agreed upon, but used how much time to write all that?

Thanks for contributing nothing/zero/zilch to the conversation.

And generally being disrespectful to an RPB member or other member of this board for no apparent reason is not the way to go.

Alonso

10-06-2011, 06:30 PM

Terry Dunfield will be making twice his salary next season - he took a pay cut to play for Vancouver.

Plus I hear his salary was heavily front loaded the year before when VWFC were in the NASL. A loop hole they exploited to pay him more over two years but keep him for cheap in MLS.

Alonso

10-06-2011, 06:32 PM

I had a beer one night with Paul and he confirmed the club is very interested in keeping him but Burnley wanted a ~$800k transfer fee.

Since RB with his calibre are hard to come by in this league I'd say it would be worth it if he would sign at least a 3 year deal in the $150,000 range maybe even $200,000.

swan

10-06-2011, 07:37 PM

800k is nothing for a transfer fee and well worth it but will it go towards the cap though? if so that would stink

Yohan

10-06-2011, 07:48 PM

800k is nothing for a transfer fee and well worth it but will it go towards the cap though? if so that would stink
depends on whether TFC has 800k in allocation money and willingness to spend it.
can also charge 800k against the salary cap (stupid move)
or use a DP spot for transfer fee (like how Robbie Keane signed for LA)

Alonso

10-06-2011, 11:01 PM

800k is nothing for a transfer fee and well worth it but will it go towards the cap though? if so that would stink

Yeah I guess that would throw a wrench in it. I didn't realize transfer fees went against the cap.

I thought MLS paid for the transfer fees in part.

This should be addressed in the future if this is the case. Ie. transfer fees don't count against the cap.

It shouldn't really matter as long as the operating salary budgets are the same.

I mean if we sell a player for $5 million the league takes it cut be we don't get $2 million in salary cap allocation money do we? So why should it work the other way?

Yohan

10-06-2011, 11:10 PM

Yeah I guess that would throw a wrench in it. I didn't realize transfer fees went against the cap.

I thought MLS paid for the transfer fees in part.

This should be addressed in the future if this is the case. Ie. transfer fees don't count against the cap.

It shouldn't really matter as long as the operating salary budgets are the same.

I mean if we sell a player for $5 million the league takes it cut be we don't get $2 million in salary cap allocation money do we? So why should it work the other way?
parity

like I noted in the other post, teams can pay transfer fees out of own pocket, as long as they are willing to use a DP spot

Alonso

10-06-2011, 11:42 PM

parity

like I noted in the other post, teams can pay transfer fees out of own pocket, as long as they are willing to use a DP spot

Well it should work both ways then IMO.

We should have $5 million in allocation money for the sale of Edu, to pay off transfer fees for other players.

Do you see what I'm getting at here, if we sell prospects we should be able to use that money for allocation under the cap.

OR, transfer fees should not count in the budget at all. Pay any fee in any amount, but the players salary and ONLY the players salary counts against the cap.

This would open up more talent to the league.

[NBF]

10-07-2011, 01:07 AM

Since I'm procrastinating today, my assessment of players, who should be kept, fired, or undecided.

1. Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - KEEP
2. Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - FIRE<==Disagree, Keep
3. Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - FIRE
4. Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - KEEP
5. Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
6. Kyle Davis - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe
7. Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Maybe<==Disagree/Agree, Can We Get a DP Centre Back?
8. Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep<==Disagree, Fire
9. Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep
10. Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
11. Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
12. Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Keep<==Disagree, Fire
13. Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Fire<==Disagree, Keep
14. Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep<==Disagree, Fire
15. Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
16. Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Maybe<==Disagree, Keep
17. Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
18. Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
19. Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
20. Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - ST/LW - Canada - Keep
21. Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Maybe<==Disagree, Keep
22. Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
23. Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Fire<==Disagree, Keep
24. Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
25. Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Maybe<==Disagree, Fire
26. Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep
27. Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Maybe<== Disagree, Keep
28. Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
29. Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Fire
30. Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Fire<==Disagree, Keep, We need depth if Eckersley doesnt return.
31. Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Keep
32. Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Fire<== Disagree, Keep, Decent Left Winger if Plata doesnt return.
33. Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Keep

I just wanted to add my two cents to your list. Also, you have a fairly good lineup if you line up in a 4-3-3, but you're putting alot of faith in the fact that Eckersley and Plata will be returning next season.

I dont think the team should be purging Viator, Yourassowsky, Martina, or Borman if the loan contracts of those two "loanee" players are not sorted out first. Specifically along the flanks, I dont think the team should be relying solely on young left/right backs or left/right wingers, if the team will finish 3rd from last due to injuries, and lack of fitness. I would at least like to see the veterans on there until we know for sure that the youngsters are physically mature enough to handle a full season.

4-3-3:

--------------------------------Frei-------------------------------
-------------------------------Kocic------------------------------
Eckersley-----------Vacant--------------Cann---------------Vacant
*Omphroy----------Williams-------------Harden--------------Morgan
--------------------*Iro---------------*Davies---------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------*DeGuzman--------------Frings---------------------
--------------------Gold---------------*Dunfield--------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Plata---------------------------Avila-----------------------Johnson
Marosevic---------------------Stinson-----------------------Vacant
*Soolsma---------------------Zavarise----------------------Lindsay
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------Koevermans---------------------------
-------------------------------Vacant-----------------------------

razor787

10-07-2011, 04:53 AM

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif
Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - Keep
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - Release
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - Release (Old, slow and way down in the depth chart. Better using his spot on a canuck)
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - Keep
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Kyle Davies - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe (Hasn't made any appearances, would suggest he is expendable)
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Release (We have a DP on 2 of the 3 lines. Bring in a DP CB to organize the back line)
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep (If DeGuzman goes, we would need a good midfielder)
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep (All MLS loans have to have a buyout agreement. Hopefully the one for Ecks isn't an unreasonable figure)
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Keep (at 42k and not taking an international spot, he is excellent depth to have)
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Release (hasn't broken the squad since he got here, and using up an int'l spot)
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Maybe (65k is maybe a bit over value for Ty. If we come across cheaper depth, that will be as effective, toss him)
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep (Has potential, would like to see him stay with the club. Good depth)
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Release (not worth the price)
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep (he will be a great MLS keeper some day, but I don't see the need in both Frei and Kocic. I say we deal Kocic, and pick up a Canadian GK)
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Keep
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Keep (currently below league minimum. If his price goes up, he may not be worth keeping)
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep (Has had a decent strike rate since joining here. Domestic spot is a plus)
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Release (Had a couple good games, and the others he was garbage.)
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Keep (Cheap and can be groomed. Keep him)
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep (We need to find a way to keep this kid. Though, it would make sense as to why he went in the 4th/5th round)
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Keep
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Release (too expensive for depth. Use his money for a CB)
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Release
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Keep
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Release
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Keep (worth keeping at 42k)

Need:
1 DP CB + 2 Depth
1 Starting LB
1 Depth RB
May need CM depth

swan

10-07-2011, 05:43 AM

depends on whether TFC has 800k in allocation money and willingness to spend it.
can also charge 800k against the salary cap (stupid move)
or use a DP spot for transfer fee (like how Robbie Keane signed for LA)

this would have to be the way to go..

maninb

10-07-2011, 07:47 AM

I've heard Ecks has a steady girl here...so that may be some added pressure to stay...

Yohan

10-07-2011, 07:54 AM

this would have to be the way to go..
i'm not sure how much allocation money TFC has, but allocation is so useful in MLS (for trades, buy down salary, etc) that spending a lot on transfer would limit TFC's ability to do business next season

[NBF]

10-07-2011, 09:02 AM

I've heard Ecks has a steady girl here...so that may be some added pressure to stay...

Im sure there's a girl out there, who will soldier on for the good of the team.

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/11/27/1225804/493879-beauty-and-the-geek.jpg

:canada:

felipe

10-07-2011, 09:07 AM

I see a lot of guys wanting to release Yourassowsky - I disagree, I think he's a valuable player who can slot in many positions...I would keep him, definetly. I love his energy too. You need a couple of guys like that on your roster.

I also like Soolsma - so thank god that most of you agree with me. I would start him most days - speed isn't everything.

And I would defintely keep JDG - he's finally producing fantastic displays - he's healthy, got guys to play with - and now you want to shed him? Crazy...he's worth every penny.

Dunfield is a keeper too. He's canadian, (kind of), and provides valuable depth. I think he's good for the big matches - he's been there, done that, and can only be a positive for guys like Stinson - to have him around.

Other than that, I think the original poster pretty much nailed it.

I wouldn't give up on Iro either, but we seem to have 4-5 centrebacks basically interchangeable, (including the injured guys), and anyone of them would be quite good paired with a more dynamic centreback. You could basically take your pick of 2 or 3 of the 5 of them, depending on a myriad of factors - chemistry with whoever they bring in, locker room dynamics, int'l slot, youth, etc.

You could argue that Iro would be more valuable than Harden if he was paired with the right partner - I think Iro has the capability to do so much more; whereas Harden is pretty much what he is. But then again, I don't think anyone would argue that Iro has outperformed Harden this season. I think that perhaps Cann would be found out with a better quality partner...his weaknesses could possibly be so much more exposed...I don't know, I guess I'd keep 'em all around until I found 'the guy' who would be the stud in centre D, and see how they match up with him. Harden is defintely a quality squad player I'd keep regardless, but the others...I dunno about...

Wooster_TFC

10-07-2011, 09:32 AM

Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - Keep
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - Maybe
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - Release
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - Keep
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Kyle Davies - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Keep
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Keep
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Release
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Maybe
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Keep
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Keep
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Keep
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Release
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Keep
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Keep
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Release
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Release
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Keep
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Release
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Keep

Results

Opens 3 roster spots through releases.

Leaves us with this sort of depth:

------------------Frei---------------------
----------------(Kocic)--------------------
------------------------------------------
Eckersley---Williams----Iro----------Morgan
(Omphroy)--(Harden)---(Cann)------(Borman)
------------(Henry)----(Davies)-----------
------------------------------------------
------------------Frings------------------
-----------------(Stinson)---------------
------------------(Gold)------------------
------------------------------------------
---------De Guzman------Avila------------
---------(Marosevic)----(Dunfield)-------
---------(Cordon)-------(Zavarise)--------
------------------------------------------
Plata-----------------------------Johnson
(Soolsma)------------------------(Lindsay)
------------------------------------------
----------------Koevermans--------------
----------------(Makabuya)--------------

IMO our needs are as follows (in order of priority):

Leader/starting CB. Play alongside one of Williams/Iro/Cann. Likely this means a trade/cut of one of the other CBs (looks like Davies, but likely to be one of Williams/Iro/Cann just because they all likely feel they should be starting).

Backup CF. Assuming Johnson is one of our starting wingers, we need someone to spell Koevermans from time to time, as well as able to play the role while coming in as a 60th or 70th minute sub.

Starting right winger. This allows Plata to come of the bench for speed, or allows Koevermans to take a day off and slot Johnson up top in the CF spot if needed. Hopefully this is someone that can play both wing positions equally well. No one gets cut out of this move, unless Soolsma needs to go for the INT spot.

Backup LB. Ideally this is someone who can play RB too, but we have adequate cover their with Gold and Stinson being able to play there if Omphroy isn't up for the challenge yet. This may result in the cutting of Borman.

Starting CB. We can't put any trust that either Williams or Cann will come back and be the same player they were. Knee injuries are tricky, and we shouldn't be banking on Iro or Harden being a consistent starting CB if Williams and/or Cann are not ready to go. This would result in the cutting of at least 1 CB (in addition to the one at the top).

We may end up having other holes to plug after any trades we make in order to shore up, as well as the expansion draft coming up.

Yohan

10-07-2011, 09:50 AM

I see a lot of guys wanting to release Yourassowsky - I disagree, I think he's a valuable player who can slot in many positions...I would keep him, definetly. I love his energy too. You need a couple of guys like that on your roster.
not withstanding his tendency to go down a little too easy, Yourass hasn't shown that he's not really good in any position. yeah, a decent utility guy who can play multiple positions in a pinch, but not someone you want to waste an international spot on

Stouffville_RPB

10-07-2011, 10:11 AM

CSO_BBTB

10-07-2011, 11:11 AM

Not too much to disagree in this thread so far but why are people so keen on Zavarise? I strongly suspect he was signed pretty much by default to make up the numbers based on a discovery claim filed by Cochrane and Brennan rather than Winter and Mariner.

__wowza

10-07-2011, 11:33 AM

I think people are putting too much faith in Lindsay being able to come back and live up to the potential he showed last season.

I think Winter would've loved him. He was my favorite player to watch last season but I wouldn't hedge any bets on him coming back to the live up to expectations.

this could either go one of two ways. he could fall into a funk or he could use it as motivation to bust his ass and hit harder than ever. vs soolsma, i think he'd have a better chance to start if he kept of the form he had pre-injury.

we currently have plata on the left, and with lindsay on the right we'd have one of the most menacing attacks in the league.

Yohan

10-07-2011, 11:38 AM

Wooster_TFC

10-07-2011, 12:27 PM

not withstanding his tendency to go down a little too easy, Yourass hasn't shown that he's not really good in any position. yeah, a decent utility guy who can play multiple positions in a pinch, but not someone you want to waste an international spot on

Not to mention taking up 80k of cap space.

I think people are putting too much faith in Lindsay being able to come back and live up to the potential he showed last season.

I think Winter would've loved him. He was my favorite player to watch last season but I wouldn't hedge any bets on him coming back to the live up to expectations.

Cheap, young, domestic, can play both sides of the pitch. Sounds like the perfect depth winger type that every team in MLS needs.

Not too much to disagree in this thread so far but why are people so keen on Zavarise? I strongly suspect he was signed pretty much by default to make up the numbers based on a discovery claim filed by Cochrane and Brennan rather than Winter and Mariner.

Zavarise really slots in as midfielder backup #4 or 5, behind Marosevic, Dunfield, and Stinson at least. Being domestic and on 45k/year is exactly the type of player you want in that position. He can also play LW in a pinch. So, in summary, I don't think people are really high on Zavarise, it's more that it's not a pressing issue that you need to address (or a position that you can get all that much better in for that salary).

Wooster_TFC

10-07-2011, 12:34 PM

One thing that is missing, is who's contract is up at the end of the season.

My assumption for "keep" was that they were either under contract, or could get signed for the same amount for next year. Dunfield is the only exception that I'm aware of, as his salary doubles (I think?) next year.

Stouffville_RPB

10-07-2011, 01:00 PM

I thought he was ok for depth, and if not for injuries, he'd get more minutes over Stinson

Zavarise over Stinson? I don't know about that. I'd rather have Stinson.

Cheap, young, domestic, can play both sides of the pitch. Sounds like the perfect depth winger type that every team in MLS needs.

If he can still make his potential. I would love to have the Nicholas Lindsay we saw in the lineup I just think that people are just looking past his injury too easily.

I was a big backer of this kid but there are lots of players who never come back to their old form or better after knee injuries. I'd love to see him make it but I have my doubts.

Wooster_TFC

10-07-2011, 01:25 PM

Zavarise over Stinson? I don't know about that. I'd rather have Stinson.

If he can still make his potential. I would love to have the Nicholas Lindsay we saw in the lineup I just think that people are just looking past his injury too easily.

I was a big backer of this kid but there are lots of players who never come back to their old form or better after knee injuries. I'd love to see him make it but I have my doubts.

Same with Cann and Williams. You don't just flat out cut them because they had knee surgery. You give them a run out, and be prepared for a disappointment, but hope that they are the players they were previously.

Yohan

10-07-2011, 01:59 PM

Zavarise over Stinson? I don't know about that. I'd rather have Stinson.

Me too, but Stinson only got his chance after Zavarise got injured, and I didn't think Zavarise looked terrible at CM

ag futbol

10-07-2011, 08:00 PM

Not to mention taking up 80k of cap space.

That's pretty much warm body territory.

80k we should be asking questions like "is he serviceable?"

CSO_BBTB

10-08-2011, 12:14 AM

....Being domestic and on 45k/year is exactly the type of player you want in that position....

The domestic angle means diddlysquat in player personnel decisions, now TFC can get away with having only three Canadian players. Zavarise is too old to hang around long in that sort of role if he is seldom featuring in first team games because he isn't going to improve much over time. There are first round draft picks and probably more Academy graduates to fit onto the roster for next season, who can reasonably be expected to turn into first team regulars if given a season to train with the first team and play reserve games.

Dub Narcotic

10-08-2011, 02:01 AM

Good thread. What are the chances of a Kevin McKenna or Onyewu coming over next year?

CSO_BBTB

10-08-2011, 03:23 AM

[14 back for sure]
Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - Keep
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Keep [doubt they'll buy out his contract now]
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep

[probably about 6 or 7 of these 13 back]
Kyle Davies - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe [has he done enough to impress Winter?]
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Maybe [has he done enough to hang around when the next batch of draft picks arrive?]
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Maybe [with Harden and Henry around for less money he could be surplus to requirements]
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Maybe [will he be the same player, does Winter actually rate him?]
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Maybe [seldom seen in first team terms does Winter actually rate him?]
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Maybe [has he done enough to hang around when the next batch of draft picks arrive?]
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Maybe [almost a keep but on enough money that he is vulnerable if better option is identified]
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Maybe [will he be the same player, does Winter actually rate him?]
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - Maybe [will still need depth on the left but could lose out to training camp invite or draft pick]
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - Maybe [will he be the same player, does Winter actually rate him?]
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - Maybe [will he be the same player, has the Charlestown contract holdout really been forgiven?]

[these 6 older players should be moving on because clearly not a factor in first team terms]
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Release
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Release
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Release
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Release
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Release
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Release [too old to take a place from a more promising younger player with greater potential]

Should be easy enough to strengthen the depth and address the central defence situation by bringing in around 9 to 10 new guys based on a combination of the use of allocation money, six discovery signings, trades, NCAA draft picks and Academy graduates.

prizby

10-08-2011, 01:13 PM

pretty sure cann was given a multi year deal this year?

can we have more than 30 on our roster if we loan out players for a full year?

JavierMartini

10-08-2011, 02:49 PM

Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]

You can't be serious. By far the most enjoyable player to watch this season!

Yohan

10-08-2011, 02:57 PM

Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]

You can't be serious. By far the most enjoyable player to watch this season!
understandable if his transfer fee is too much. though I highly doubt Quito would ask for more than 200k or else it'd be a rip off

CSO_BBTB

10-08-2011, 02:58 PM

Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]

You can't be serious. By far the most enjoyable player to watch this season!

....which is why (as with Eckersley) I wrote that it would be good to keep him if the loan deal terms make sense.

pretty sure cann was given a multi year deal this year?

Turned it down as he thought he'd been promised more money in year two by MoJo and then returned under the terms of his original contract when he ended his holdout is the way i remember it unfolding but I was dealing with the after effects of a 9.0 on the Richter scale earthquake at the time so wasn't paying too much attention. My impression is that multi-year guaranteed deals are not that common in MLS and that usually there are a series of club (technically league really under single entity) held option years.

Yohan

10-08-2011, 03:13 PM

Turned it down as he thought he'd been promised more money in year two by MoJo and then returned under the terms of his original contract when he ended his holdout is the way i remember it unfolding but I was dealing with the after effects of a 9.0 on the Richter scale earthquake at the time so wasn't paying too much attention. My impression is that multi-year guaranteed deals are not that common in MLS and that usually there are a series of club (technically league really under single entity) held option years.
though it changed a bit with new CBA deal IIRC
any MLS player over 24yrs and 3 seasons cannot be released from their contract by the club unless by mutual consent

Island Man

10-08-2011, 03:49 PM

Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - KEEP
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - FIRE
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - FIRE
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - KEEP
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Kyle Davis - 22 - CB - USA - Keep
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Keep
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep if possible
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - keep
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Fire
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - keep
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - keep
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - keep
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - keep
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep.
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Fire
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - keep
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Keep
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Fire
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Fire
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - keep
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - fire
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Keep

CSO_BBTB

10-08-2011, 03:50 PM

though it changed a bit with new CBA deal IIRC
any MLS player over 24yrs and 3 seasons cannot be released from their contract by the club unless by mutual consent

During the season players can't be placed on waivers now to anything like the extent that was possible previously. Don't think anything has changed where option years are concerned though. The whole reentry draft process appears to be designed as a way to chisel down the salary of players who have an option for a relatively high number and have not been performing to that level over the past season. Might check into the details later.

jimiv

10-08-2011, 06:34 PM

I had a beer one night with Paul and he confirmed the club is very interested in keeping him but Burnley wanted a ~$800k transfer fee.

Does the transfer fee hit the cap?

Yohan

10-08-2011, 11:58 PM

Well it should work both ways then IMO.

We should have $5 million in allocation money for the sale of Edu, to pay off transfer fees for other players.

Do you see what I'm getting at here, if we sell prospects we should be able to use that money for allocation under the cap.

OR, transfer fees should not count in the budget at all. Pay any fee in any amount, but the players salary and ONLY the players salary counts against the cap.

This would open up more talent to the league.read this thread from BS

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1536936.html

Yohan

10-08-2011, 11:59 PM

Does the transfer fee hit the cap?

depends on whether TFC has 800k in allocation money and willingness to spend it.
can also charge 800k against the salary cap (stupid move)
or use a DP spot for transfer fee (like how Robbie Keane signed for LA)
hopefully this explains

Alonso

10-10-2011, 03:29 AM

read this thread from BS

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1536936.html

Great info. But this allocation amount needs to be larger so that bigger players can be bought on transfers from bigger European clubs.

Slow and steady I guess. This league can be a good one in 20 years if they keep progressing like they are.

TFC07

10-10-2011, 11:12 AM

- Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - Keep
- Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - Fire
- Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - Fire
- Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - Maybe.
- Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
- Kyle Davis - 22 - CB - USA - Keep (for now)
-Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Maybe
-Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
-Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Keep
-Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
-Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
-Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Fire
-Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Fire
-Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep
-Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
-Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Fire
-Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
-Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
-Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
-Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Keep
-Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Keep
-Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
-Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Fire
-Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
-Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Fire
-Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Keep
-Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Fire
-Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep
-Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Fire
-Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Fire
-Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Fire
-Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Fire
-Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Maybe

Empirical

10-11-2011, 09:54 AM

looking at ur list is just as laughable

you want to fire teenagers why?

cuz they haven't played or were injured all year?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/09/11/sp-toronto-fc-deguzman.html

First off, I was referring to a list that ManUtd later edited to include the academy players he implied we fire.

Second, all the players I suggested firing I have seen play in more than a few matches.

Empirical

10-11-2011, 09:56 AM

Mikael Yourassowsky: KEEEP

prizby

10-11-2011, 10:34 AM

First off, I was referring to a list that ManUtd later edited to include the academy players he implied we fire.

Second, all the players I suggested firing I have seen play in more than a few matches.

lindsay was our best academy product last year...and you want to fire him based on what?

makubuya has played 1 senior game and you want to fire him? how can you say you have seen him play multiple games?

when did you happen to see Bouchiba play considering you have seen all of them that you fire play "multiple times"?

Wooster_TFC

10-11-2011, 11:52 AM

The domestic angle means diddlysquat in player personnel decisions, now TFC can get away with having only three Canadian players. Zavarise is too old to hang around long in that sort of role if he is seldom featuring in first team games because he isn't going to improve much over time. There are first round draft picks and probably more Academy graduates to fit onto the roster for next season, who can reasonably be expected to turn into first team regulars if given a season to train with the first team and play reserve games.

To be clear, by "domestic" I meant non-international. So, it still means something. Can you get a CM/AM at the same level as Zavarise to come up to Canada from the states on 45k? I'm not convinced you could.

That said, a physically stronger Oscar Cordon could take that slot no problem IMO.

Wooster_TFC

10-11-2011, 11:58 AM

This about lines up with what I was thinking. Although I was too lazy to list all the maybes. Only points of "argument" I have is the following:

Dunfield. On 60k he's a definite keep. On 150k (which is reportedly what he's supposed to make next year), he becomes a definite maybe.

Harden/Iro. I think both of these guys are "maybe", with 1 of them being a keep. So, in my mind, either you bump the one up, or the other down. That said, the CB situation is entirely a crap shoot, with Cann and Williams coming off injury, Harden and Iro being not good enough right now, and Henry and Davies having potential (but will they realize it?). I could see all of these folks being back, and I could also see the majority of them being cut (Henry will be kept regardless since he's the first academy signing).

Soolsma. I think he's being kept regardless. He's the only real Winter pick up in the offseason that did well enough to be considered a good depth player, and Winter won't completely admit his failure in last offseason. Not much of a bone to pick though, since you did admit he's borderline keep.

[14 back for sure]
Eric Avila - AM - 23 - USA - Keep
Oscar Cordon - AM/CM - 18 - Canada - Keep
Julian de Guzman - 30 - DM/CM - Canada - Keep [doubt they'll buy out his contract now]
Terry Dunfield - DM - 29 - Canada - Keep
Stefan Frei - GK - 25 - Switzerland - Keep
Torsten Frings - DM/SW - 34 - Germany - Keep
Ty Harden - CB - 27 - USA - Keep
Doneil Henry - CB - 18 - Canada - Keep
Ryan Johnson - CF/LW - 26 - Jamaica - Keep
Milos Kocic - GK - 26 - Serbia - Keep
Danny Koevermans - CF - 32 - Holland - Keep
Peri Marosevic - 22 - CF/AM/RW - USA - Keep
Ashtone Morgan - 20 - LB - Canada - Keep
Matt Stinson - CM - 19 - Canada - Keep

[probably about 6 or 7 of these 13 back]
Kyle Davies - 22 - CB - USA - Maybe [has he done enough to impress Winter?]
Richard Eckersley - RB - 22 - England - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]
Matt Gold - DM - 23 - USA - Maybe [has he done enough to hang around when the next batch of draft picks arrive?]
Andy Iro - CB - 26 - England - Maybe [with Harden and Henry around for less money he could be surplus to requirements]
Nicholas Lindsay - 19 - W - Canada - Maybe [will he be the same player, does Winter actually rate him?]
Keith Makabuya - 18 - CF - Canada - Maybe [seldom seen in first team terms does Winter actually rate him?]
Demetrius Omphroy - 22 - RB - USA - Maybe [has he done enough to hang around when the next batch of draft picks arrive?]
Joao Plata - 19 - LW/RW - Ecuador - Maybe [would be good to keep but depends a lot on terms of the loan deal]
Nick Soolsma - RW - 23 - Holland - Maybe [almost a keep but on enough money that he is vulnerable if better option is identified]
Dicoy Williams - CB - 25 - Jamaica - Maybe [will he be the same player, does Winter actually rate him?]
Danleigh Borman - LB/LW - 25 - South Africa - Maybe [will still need depth on the left but could lose out to training camp invite or draft pick]
Elbekay Bouchiba - DM - 32 - Holland - Maybe [will he be the same player, does Winter actually rate him?]
Adrian Cann - CB - 31 - Canada - Maybe [will he be the same player, has the Charlestown contract holdout really been forgiven?]

[these 6 older players should be moving on because clearly not a factor in first team terms]
Leandre Griffit - RW - 27 - France - Release
Javier Martina - 24 - RW - Holland - Release
Nathan Sturgis - DM/RB/LB - 24 - USA - Release
Eddie Viator - CB/RB - 29 - Guadeloupe - Release
Mikael Yourassowsky - LB/LW - 28 - Belgium - Release
Gianluca Zavarise - CM/AM - 25 - Canada - Release [too old to take a place from a more promising younger player with greater potential]

Should be easy enough to strengthen the depth and address the central defence situation by bringing in around 9 to 10 new guys based on a combination of the use of allocation money, six discovery signings, trades, NCAA draft picks and Academy graduates.

ag futbol

10-11-2011, 12:37 PM

Wooster_TFC

10-11-2011, 01:23 PM

I don't think Makabuya or Lindsay even qualify as maybes.

You don't cut prospects after one year, unless they are absolutely dogging it and showing no signs of improving.

Lindsay's concern will be if his knee is done after the injury, because prior to that injury he was playing at a good enough level to at least be a regular substitute and more likely to start.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you. CSO_BBTB is just stating them as maybes because his list is "slightly" different in that he's believes that only his "keep" list has a guaranteed spot next year. Everyone else has to try out in a sense, and the maybes will get the boot if they don't win their spot.

T-boy

10-11-2011, 01:28 PM

Detroit_TFC

10-11-2011, 01:49 PM

I can see Winter losing a lot of dead wood very early after the end of the season, then making several signing before the winter. Aron will have a full preseason, which is what he wants and needs, and will want his team and squad all made up for the start of training.

I'm not sure. That is certainly possible. But I think AW is also sensitive about too much churn in the roster after this season of massive upheaval. Clearly there are some personnel needs but I just get the feeling that he's not going to shed a vast number of people even if they aren't the quality he would prefer to have.

Yohan

10-11-2011, 01:53 PM

I'm not sure. That is certainly possible. But I think AW is also sensitive about too much churn in the roster after this season of massive upheaval. Clearly there are some personnel needs but I just get the feeling that he's not going to shed a vast number of people even if they aren't the quality he would prefer to have.
not to mention there aren't too many decent free agents in winter window

Canary10

10-11-2011, 02:43 PM

Winter said at the town hall that several players will be told in November whether they are staying. I'd expect to see a small number of players let go shortly after the season is done.

Blizzard

10-11-2011, 03:55 PM

Winter said at the town hall that several players will be told in November whether they are staying. I'd expect to see a small number of players let go shortly after the season is done.

It's better that way for the players IMO. They don't go through a winter thinking about TFC but instead turn their attention to finding a new club.

It's merciful to let a player know he's surplus to requirments sooner rather than later.

No false hope.

prizby

10-12-2011, 06:41 AM

^pretty sure they gotta tell them in Nov so they can use the re-entry draft