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denime
10-04-2011, 05:38 AM
Mornin'



TFC TV (http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp)


TFC needs to find way around second-half slumps (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/03/tfc-needs-to-find-way-around-second-half-slumps)


Harden stepping it up in defense for revamped Toronto (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/10/03/harden-stepping-it-defense-revamped-toronto)


MLS may move to unbalanced sked (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/10/02/mls_sked_unbalanced/)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)


_

scooter
10-04-2011, 07:33 AM
mornin d

Furtado91
10-04-2011, 07:42 AM
Morning.

Technorgasm
10-04-2011, 07:57 AM
unblanced. . dont we already play the Krew 3 times?
maybe we can play less games vs (far superior) western conference teams?

boban
10-04-2011, 08:26 AM
unbalanced schedule - the start of not even following this league, let alone this team.

Waggy
10-04-2011, 09:09 AM
TBH, I think they should go to the AL/NL model. East conference teams play east conference teams, west play west. 2 or 3 games you cross over and play against the biggest derby in the other conference (or whatever team fits if teams have no cross conference derby) plus a random team that changes yearly (sometimes home, sometimes away). It'd cut down on travel, make road trips easier, make it easier to play/fit in CL games. Plus if we're doing the playoff format anyways, then there would be MLS champ, and also the East and West conference champ would mean something (They'd have to actually give the conferences names, NHL back in the day styles).

Edit- the math works too. Say each team plays teams within it's conference 3 times, that'd mean either 30 or 27 games in conference, plus a home and home with a cross conference derby, and 2 home against randoms, 2 away against randoms, so teams would play 6 cross conference games. The problem is the conference with 9 teams instead of 10, they'll have to find 3 extra games. Who knows how they'll allign next year if they're scrapping the current system, but say it's the East with 9 (I'd assume Houston would go back to the West, MTL comes in to the east), so maybe add an extra game for each derby? Like

TFC vs Columbus, vs MTL, vs random
Columbus vs TFC vs Chicago vs KC
Philly vs NY vs Columbus vs DC
NY vs Philly vs NE vs DC
DC vs Philly, vs NY, vs random
KC vs Chicago vs columbus vs random
Chicago vs Columbus, vs KC, vs random
Montreal vs Toronto vs NE vs random
NE vs MTL, vs NY vs random

So there are 6 teams playing random games, they'd just rotate. Not perfect, but thats how the unbalanced thing works. So for us, we'd play every eastern team 3 times except for MTL/Columbus and 1 of KC, Chi, NE, DC (that'd be randomly selected each year) who we'd play 4 times (2 home, 2 away). Plus a home and home with vancouver, and 2 home games against random western teams, plus 2 road games against random western teams (hopefully back to back). So we'd play 5 western conference teams in a total of 6 matches, bringing us to 36, same as every western team.

Globetrotter
10-04-2011, 09:13 AM
And miss the chance of seeing Donovan, Beckham, Keene? No dice.

PopePouri
10-04-2011, 09:42 AM
For 20 teams, they should go:

10 games home - same conference
10 games away - same conference

5 games home - other conference
5 games away - other conference

A 30 game season plus playoffs is reasonable. Either that or increase the season length.

Greatest Ripoff
10-04-2011, 10:12 AM
They should just play every team home and away. This is a terrible idea for the league.

denime
10-04-2011, 10:14 AM
They should just play every team home and away. This is a terrible idea for the league.

Agree,but since we are in NA we have to live with it.

Globetrotter
10-04-2011, 10:20 AM
For 20 teams, they should go:

10 games home - same conference
10 games away - same conference

5 games home - other conference
5 games away - other conference

A 30 game season plus playoffs is reasonable. Either that or increase the season length.

9 home, 9 away same conference (if there's 10 teams, you wouldn't play yourself).

Then you could do 5 and 5 for the other conference, and swap the home/away the following year. That's 28 games. at that point if they really want more games, you could add a few more randoms.

Roogsy
10-04-2011, 10:24 AM
9 home, 9 away same conference (if there's 10 teams, you wouldn't play yourself).

Then you could do 5 and 5 for the other conference, and swap the home/away the following year. That's 28 games. at that point if they really want more games, you could add a few more randoms.


I have to agree with this. Our league and our players have to deal with issues that are pretty unique to North America. While having a single table would be ideal, the logistics are obviously too hard. If they're going to give "preference" to local rivalries, I'd rather they not make up fake rivalries as they go along and have TFC play the Crew 4 times a year. Play conference teams home and away and add a selection of cross-conference games.

Waggy
10-04-2011, 10:25 AM
Increase the season length? It's too long already. And how can there be a balanced schedule with an unbalanced amount of teams structured into 2 conferences spread over 3 time zones? If you miss a team for the year, you miss it. Just like the NFL, or MLB. Besides there's always CL groups, and playoffs to play other clubs. Plus it'd be better for everyone to limit the airtravel. It's a drain on the players and it prevents fans making trips.

edit: I like that idea too (9 9 and 5 5), but that's 1/3 of the season playing a conference with a completely separate playoff race. If you make the playoffs for finishing x in the eastern conference, shouldn't you play more in the eastern conference? Plus how does the conference with 9 teams play 9 9 and 5 5? They can only do 8 8

Redcoe15
10-04-2011, 10:31 AM
As MLS adds more teams in its long term plans, you can expect an unbalanced schedule to be a given.

Globetrotter
10-04-2011, 10:31 AM
edit: I like that idea too (9 9 and 5 5), but that's 1/3 of the season playing a conference with a completely separate playoff race. If you make the playoffs for finishing x in the eastern conference, shouldn't you play more in the eastern conference? Plus how does the conference with 9 teams play 9 9 and 5 5? They can only do 8 8

it's not a separate playoff race. there's a lot of wild card spots that aren't conference specific.

mastermixer
10-04-2011, 10:37 AM
Bad planning on the leagues part. They should have waited to add two teams at once instead of screwing up the schedule. I guess money talks.
Lets see what they come up with.

rocker
10-04-2011, 10:54 AM
I don't think they should wait for other teams to be ready for expansion just to keep a balanced schedule. Why should Montreal wait for NY Cosmos to get its act together? Expansion is a huge deal, and for some ownership groups, timing is imperative due to government funding of stadia, economic markets etc. Waiting is not an option.

I love the balanced schedule, but it didn't really bother me to have an unbalanced schedule back in 2007. Actually, given the onerous travel requirements, it might produce better soccer to have teams travelling less often to far away cities.

I'm sure some teams would hate not to get LA Galaxy, but unless you love circuses, there's no reason to really complain "I'm not seeing the LA Galaxy at BMO Field next year, damn!" Actually, not playing them might make our chances better... hehe. The east wasn't that good this year.

Waggy
10-04-2011, 11:18 AM
it's not a separate playoff race. there's a lot of wild card spots that aren't conference specific.

But the 2 top spots are for winning the east/west respectively. Either way, that's a smaller issue to the big problem with your 9 9/5 5 idea, which is that it works great in a league that is balanced (equal, even number of teams per conference), but doesn't solve the problem MLS has next year (9 teams in 1 conference, 10 in another). How do you make a schedule that's fair to everyone while maximizing potential ticket sales/interest and keeping the league as competitive as possible? You can't just have the east play 2 fewer games a season than the west obviously, how do you make up those 2 extra games fairly? Who gets to play whom? Where? How do you make up 2 extra games when there are 9 teams in the conference (so someone is stuck, there need to be 18 extra games, but you could theoretically only play 16, (ie you pair every east team up for an extra home and home, what happens to the 9th team))?

Oldtimer
10-04-2011, 11:36 AM
How do you make up 2 extra games when there are 9 teams in the conference (so someone is stuck, there need to be 18 extra games, but you could theoretically only play 16, (ie you pair every east team up for an extra home and home, what happens to the 9th team))?

TFC should just be given a bye as the most awesome Canadian club in MLS. :D

mastermixer
10-04-2011, 11:56 AM
TFC should just be given a bye as the most awesome Canadian club in MLS. :D

That whole statement is sad to think about. LOL

greatwhitenorf
10-04-2011, 02:05 PM
What hurts MLS scheduling is having to budget, time-wise, for the presence of CCL games in any given team's schedule. Time to re-think the value of how the competition is run, and let domestic matches have a far greater priority.

While I've made a decent effort to tune in a number of CCL games over the past 2-3 seasons, one constant is that, no matter where a CCL group stage game is played, there's a high percentage of games that are poorly attended.

Obviously, they're a hard sell. Pumas played at home vs TFC in a stadium that looked about 7/8s empty(couldn't see the near side well).

Maybe having the US, Canada, Mexico, Central America and Carribean clubs stage a more domestic or regional FA Cup-style knockout series to whittle down the clubs in the early going would be more productive and profitable instead of this weak four-club group stage. It would cut costs and make each game more interesting.

Create a format where 2 clubs from Mexico, Central America and USA, plus one from Canada and the Caribbean qualify to get into a two-group stage that commences in late summer/early fall and go from there. Allows time for more league games to be played in the more marketable summer months.

And let's face it. If FIFA are serious about growing the game properly, helping MLS grow on a domestic basis has to be a priority. This is where, regionally speaking, the greatest potential for growth of the game - and financial rewards - exists.

Yohan
10-04-2011, 02:15 PM
What hurts MLS scheduling is having to budget, time-wise, for the presence of CCL games in any given team's schedule. Time to re-think the value of how the competition is run, and let domestic matches have a far greater priority.

While I've made a decent effort to tune in a number of CCL games over the past 2-3 seasons, one constant is that, no matter where a CCL group stage game is played, there's a high percentage of games that are poorly attended.

Obviously, they're a hard sell. Pumas played at home vs TFC in a stadium that looked about 7/8s empty(couldn't see the near side well).

Maybe having the US, Canada, Mexico, Central America and Carribean clubs stage a more domestic or regional FA Cup-style knockout series to whittle down the clubs in the early going would be more productive and profitable instead of this weak four-club group stage. It would cut costs and make each game more interesting.

Create a format where 2 clubs from Mexico, Central America and USA, plus one from Canada and the Caribbean qualify to get into a two-group stage that commences in late summer/early fall and go from there. Allows time for more league games to be played in the more marketable summer months.

And let's face it. If FIFA are serious about growing the game properly, helping MLS grow on a domestic basis has to be a priority. This is where, regionally speaking, the greatest potential for growth of the game - and financial rewards - exists.
CCL Group stage is played from mid Aug to Oct...

biggest factor in this year's scheduling was Gold Cup.

werewolf
10-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Unbalanced schedule is awful. Russia has a balanced schedule and they have similar travel and time zone problems.

Yohan
10-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Unbalanced schedule is awful. Russia has a balanced schedule and they have similar travel and time zone problems.
IIRC MLS had unbalanced schedule for many years before, and it survived.

though I'd be pissed if TFC has to play Columbus 4 times and western conference teams not at all

Detroit_TFC
10-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Unbalanced schedule is awful. Russia has a balanced schedule and they have similar travel and time zone problems.

In Russia, game plays you.

Anywhoo, we'll have to muddle with 19 for a season or two. I doubt the league will wait longer than that to reel in #20 whoever it is.

Kaz
10-04-2011, 02:36 PM
Unbalanced schedule is awful. Russia has a balanced schedule and they have similar travel and time zone problems.


That's not really true. only 3 teams would fall in a different time zone, the rest are in a north west shift from St Petersburg to the west side of the Caspian Sea.

There are only 16 clubs and 4 of them are in Moscow. Most of the league is in area of MLSs Eastern Conference. Thus much lower travel time.. particularly with 4 teams in one city which greatly reduces travel time if you schedule them a few games back over a few days.

The unbalanced "sked" would suck. But I kinda understand it. You almost have to move into a conference system because you need to shorten the season. March to November just isn't reasonable.. anyone remember how friggin cold the MLS cup was?

Detroit_TFC
10-04-2011, 02:44 PM
Not to change the subject but I was surprisingly pleased by Ives's power ranking write up for TFC:

Last week: Tied New York, 1-1, on Saturday.
This week: Idle.
Outlook: The Reds gave the Red Bulls all they could handle, with Danny Koevermans and Torsten frings continuing to look like great assets for next season. Koevermans' seventh goal in his ninth game with the club gave Toronto a deserved lead as the club maintains playing with maximum effort despite being out of the postseason hunt. Defensive stability is an issue the team will undoubtedly address in the offseason.

I guess it's just relief that maybe for the first time in a while the amount of uncertainty we'll face in the offseason is lower than the previous one.

werewolf
10-04-2011, 02:56 PM
That's not really true. only 3 teams would fall in a different time zone, the rest are in a north west shift from St Petersburg to the west side of the Caspian Sea.



The distance from St. Petersburg to Makhachlaka is about the distance as Toronto to Houston. They may be in similar time zones, but there is still a great distance.

And that's not too mention the second division.

Detroit_TFC
10-04-2011, 03:00 PM
Nice write up by Steve Davis on mlssoccer.net analyzing Winter's use of 3-4-3 vs RB:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/10/04/talking-tactics-look-tfcs-unconventional-formation

Waggy
10-04-2011, 03:32 PM
Kinda funny that outsiders have picked up on how well our rebuilding year has gone while many supporters here haven't yet. Not trying to bait, just an observation. It's great to see TFC getting some GOOD press for, well the first time I can recall. I tend to think Ives either doesn't pay as close attention to TFC as the American clubs, or at least doesn't care as much, based on his observations in the past. Though in retrospect he was right to dislike the 'good' moves we'd made (a-la Mista)

And ya, obviously I dont advocate an unbalanced schedule, but we're stuck with one for the next year at least, it needs to be handled fairly and properly. While playing Columbus 1 more time than this year isn't ideal, at least if we so choose we could go see that game. At the very least it'd take place in our time zone (no 10pm kickoff), and at least the club wouldn't be on a plane for 10+ total hours to play a 90 min game somewhere out west. Besides realistically while it might not make much a difference to our ticket sales, MLS might look at columbus and say "if we can get 500 or 1000 more people to buy tickets, it's worth it". And as much as we hate columbus, financial success for all teams in the league is important.

Canary10
10-04-2011, 03:34 PM
Not to change the subject but I was surprisingly pleased by Ives's power ranking write up for TFC:

Last week: Tied New York, 1-1, on Saturday.
This week: Idle.
Outlook: The Reds gave the Red Bulls all they could handle, with Danny Koevermans and Torsten frings continuing to look like great assets for next season. Koevermans' seventh goal in his ninth game with the club gave Toronto a deserved lead as the club maintains playing with maximum effort despite being out of the postseason hunt. Defensive stability is an issue the team will undoubtedly address in the offseason.

I guess it's just relief that maybe for the first time in a while the amount of uncertainty we'll face in the offseason is lower than the previous one.

On his live chat yesterday he was asked which of the Canadian teams would finish higher next year. Unequivocally he said TFC (although that's not a really high bar admitedly).

Dbl_D
10-04-2011, 05:04 PM
And miss the chance of seeing Donovan, Beckham, Keene? No dice. you can take your david beckham... and ...

KRO
10-04-2011, 06:44 PM
Waggy;-Kinda funny that outsiders have picked up on how well our rebuilding year has gone

Look at the team of the week on mls.com.

It includes Kocic, Frings and Morgan - all defenders. The comments on the three players are interesting.

KRO
10-04-2011, 07:04 PM
I think an unbalanced schedule is a great idea. In 9 away games against Western teams this season we have picked up 4 points and have had 19 goals scored against us to 6 for. That's too many games where I have had to stay up way past my bedtime to watch us being stuffed.
I'm all for more games in our time zone, more chances to travel to away games and develop real rivalries. We'll play Beckham and Keane in post season.

Cashcleaner
10-04-2011, 07:44 PM
Unbalanced schedule is awful. Russia has a balanced schedule and they have similar travel and time zone problems.

Yeah, I don't get the league's argument on this for the exact same reason. Plenty of leagues in large nations and regions all seem to be able to handle a balanced schedule. Don't understand why we can't.

Seriously, how hard is it, MLS? You play each team home once and each team away once. It's simple and most importantly - fair.

boban
10-04-2011, 07:49 PM
Increase the season length? It's too long already.
Huh? They play 38 games seasons in Europe.

boban
10-04-2011, 07:51 PM
For 20 teams, they should go:

10 games home - same conference
10 games away - same conference

5 games home - other conference
5 games away - other conference

A 30 game season plus playoffs is reasonable. Either that or increase the season length.
The seaosn length is 34 now. Why reduce it and loose the revenue. :noidea:

Yohan
10-04-2011, 08:12 PM
Huh? They play 38 games seasons in Europe.
and have 9 months to play, not incl training camp. I think MLS is going for early start next season from early march to end of oct for regular season. that's 8 months

rocker
10-04-2011, 08:49 PM
Yeah, I don't get the league's argument on this for the exact same reason. Plenty of leagues in large nations and regions all seem to be able to handle a balanced schedule. Don't understand why we can't.

Seriously, how hard is it, MLS? You play each team home once and each team away once. It's simple and most importantly - fair.

Didn't you feel this season was congested though?

We didn't have any friendlies at all, yet, as someone said earlier this season, it felt like supporting this team was difficult because we had so many home games... and there were really only 3 gaps of breaks in the whole season. So imagine adding 3-4 games within those breaks in addition to all the Wednesday midweek games. too much.

As people have mentioned, Euro leagues spread the games out over a longer period. Euro leagues don't have playoffs, and they also have the ability to have bigger rosters and better substitutes/reserves without salary caps. Only the greatest teams have other obligations, such as Champions league or long league cup runs, and they have the money to do it.

I think to go beyond 34 league games is stretching the current MLS roster wayyyy to thin. People always mention that Euro leagues play 38 games. But the Seattle Sounders will have played 50+ games by year's end, and they don't have the ability to spend on high quality backups, or take a bus across town to play their opponents. The travel in MLS is ludicrous.

Anyhow, people need to get used to unbalanced schedules if this league continues to expand. I don't think they'll stop at 20 teams. I suspect by the end of the decade we'll be at 24 teams. 46 league games would just be crazy, when combined with playoffs, Canadian championships, CONCACAF play-ins and CONCACAF group games.

Waggy
10-04-2011, 09:37 PM
Huh? They play 38 games seasons in Europe.

Since the season started TFC has played 43 games in all competitions, and by the end of the regular season we will have played 46. If we make the playoffs that's another 4 games to the title. If we advance in CL thats more games etc. From the start of the season to the end of the season is 32 weeks (if you include playoffs 36 weeks). 46 games in 32 weeks is a LOT. 50 games in 36 weeks is a LOT. To compare

Man U's regular season started on August 16 2010. It finished on May 28

38 EPL games
5 FA cup games
3 League Cup games
13 Champions League games


It's as congested a schedule as an European team can play really. So they played 59 games over 41 weeks.

Man U 59:41= 1.4 games a week
Toronto FC 46:32= 1.4 games a week.

That's an insane amount of games in that short a time. Plus Man U doesn't have a roster limit. TFC can only really HAVE 11 or 12 MLS starter quality level players. Man U has 20+. They can play an entire second team that's competative in most league games. TFC has to play almost all our starting players every game in order to compete. The schedule is INSANE, esp given the roster limitations, and the extra travel. The schedule should be shrinking not growing


edit: if I wasn't so tired I'd add up the miles travelled between the 2 clubs. I think you'd be ASTOUNDED how much more time on airplanes TFC has spent. How many more times they've changed time zones. How many more times they've slept in hotels (how many away matches in Europe warrent an overnight stay even? Let alone 3-4 days!)

edit 2: and if you just want to compare league schedules, TFC will have played 34 games in 32 weeks. Man U played 38 games in 40 weeks. I think you can figure out the ratio difference there on your own.

3rd and final edit: the MLS season also has a lot more time lost to international dates due to the weather forcing a spring/summer/fall schedule. There were at least 2 or 3 weeks over the course of that 32 week long regular season that TFC couldn't play, it's really like 34 games in 29 or 30 weeks with 1 big and 1 small break in the middle.

Auzzy
10-04-2011, 10:44 PM
Good points Waggy!

What impressed (& worried me) the most from the TFC Town Hall, some of the numbers Winter presented. Especially one stat: approx. 127 travel days since the beginning of the season; approx. 63 days where they could train. That's nuts for any team -- and I realize that other MLS teams have to deal with similar issues. Even more nuts for a team that hired new management & coaches in January, who found a bunch of issues & baggage on the roster. So you're dealing with rebuilding & trying to introduce a systematic method of play, with players that aren't earning that much i.e. not the best in the world -- and you're spending two times as many days travelling as training.

Another thing to consider in addition to Waggy's stats: TFC (& Vancouver) have to take cross-border flights much more often than any other MLS teams. That's always more time-consuming.

We're really at a limit regarding the schedule. Hopefully MLS does everything possible to ease the burden on all teams as much as possible. MLS isn't great to begin with, but this kind of stuff does not help the quality. I also can't believe that some MLS teams play multiple friendly games... and I can see why Winter wants to cut down on pre-season travel.

werewolf
10-04-2011, 10:53 PM
Those stats are fine and dandy. But it fails to address the MLS limiting themselves to that many weeks in a season.

"its cold" is not a reason. CSKA Moscow started their season a week before TFC.

Yohan
10-04-2011, 10:56 PM
Those stats are fine and dandy. But it fails to address the MLS limiting themselves to that many weeks in a season.

"its cold" is not a reason. CSKA Moscow started their season a week before TFC.
and people come out to watch NFL games during the winter.

though i'd bet most people would prefer to not to watch football at minus 20 in snow covered pitch. it's a culture thing. North American soccer fans just don't want to watch the game in winter, esp family oriented markets

PopePouri
10-04-2011, 11:13 PM
The seaosn length is 34 now. Why reduce it and loose the revenue. :noidea:

Because a congested schedule affects football quality especially in a salary capped league. Additional revenue should be generated through stadium expansion, sponsors, etc.

Waggy
10-04-2011, 11:32 PM
Those stats are fine and dandy. But it fails to address the MLS limiting themselves to that many weeks in a season.

"its cold" is not a reason. CSKA Moscow started their season a week before TFC.

I agree with you, though Feb is too soon, early March games I'd have no problem with, nor mid to late november games. But once you push past november it's starting to become a problem depending on what city you're talking about. Remember the playoffs add a month after the end of the season, so if the last regular season game is mid november, then the mls cup would be mid december. You could do the MLS cup Super bowl style, and rotate through warm weather climates to host the final, but that's not really fair to the teams that couldn't host it. Plus there aren't THAT many warm weather MLS climates who can host an MLS final, esp that consistently. Remember football players aren't on the field for that long, they go on the sidelines and put on jackets and sit by heaters when it's cold out. They don't stand in an open field for 45 min, go inside for 15 min then go stand out in an open field again for 45 min. At most its 5-10 minutes of exposure at a time. I don't see where you can add much more than an extra 2 weeks to the sched, maybe 3.

Of course the response to that is do away with the playoffs, go single table and have the table winner be the champ. All good ideas. All ideas that MLS is completely uninterested in (as far as everything they've ever said or done anyways). Ultimately the concern MLS would have is that the interest in soccer in most US markets isn't powerful enough to deal with being outside in winter for 2 hours. NFL football is one thing, Americans care more about the NFL then any single other thing though, sports, non sports, whatever. Outside of the nfl though, that appetite really isn't there. There's a reason baseball fans are complaining bitterly about the world series extending into November. There's a reason baseball doesn't start before the last week of March. Even college football doesn't play games in December, and there aren't any snowy bowl games. The last cold climate NCAA football game is the last week of November. And baseball/college football are FAR more popular/traditional in North America. MLS can't afford to give fans an excuse not to go to games, or not to buy seasons tickets.

werewolf
10-04-2011, 11:40 PM
Early march to late november is plenty of time to play all the matches. Toronto FC may play 46 matches this year, but Chivas USA will only play 35.

Sitting outside in the cold and rain maybe isn't everyones idea of fun, but 2-3 games/year at most isn't earth shattering. No one is advocating moving to a August-May schedule.

Kaz
10-04-2011, 11:44 PM
The distance from St. Petersburg to Makhachlaka is about the distance as Toronto to Houston. They may be in similar time zones, but there is still a great distance.

And that's not too mention the second division.

You know to be honest if MLS only had 16 teams, and 4 of them were in New York. then you'd have a point.

But MLS has 19 teams, and only 2 play in the same area. and you have 6 on one coast and 3 on the other. Plus near Max distance in the other directions.

For Toronto, Columbus, NY, NE, DC, Montreal on the East Side. Vancouver, Portland, Seattle, LA, Chivas, and San Jose on the West that is 6 teams traveling maximum distance.

And then Vancouver, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus, New England, and Montreal in the North, with LA, Chivas, Dallas, and Huston in the South, going near max distance North South.

No team can avoid multiple massive distance trips.

Yes the RSL has teams spread out. however minus 3 teams. of the 13 remaining. 4 are in Moscow. 1 in St Petersburg, and iirc 6 within 100km of the Caspian Sea in the south. (and area smaller then the distance between Montreal, Toronto, NY, NE, DC and Columbus. all road trip distance cities.)

The league is fairly compact.

When teams play their home away series, Minus one team way out in the middle of no where, and one in a war zone, it's fairly easy travels. Particularly when you can fly into moscow and get 4 of your away games done.

To go to a 36-38 game season would involve increasing the length of the season by 2 weeks. This means that yes it would be colder for small out door stadiums, for a sport that isn't super popular. No one cares that it's cold for the players, it's the ticket sales that suffer.

Sorry I know many people on the board seem to feel that fans should come out anyway... but people don't like the cold, and watching football in weather that is colder then a hockey arena isn't most peoples idea of a good time for a sport that get little to no coverage.

Second we don't have unlimited roster sizes so if the league doesn't lengthen the season, that means that teams will have to deal with more difficult schedules, with Canadian Championship/US Open Cup and CCL

This is the reason why many of the other sports in Canada started and I think many still, have unbalanced schedules. (that and they started as regional leagues that merged into national ones also for the travel reason)

MLS needs to keep teams looking good and games with energy and top stars and having a twat the Henry saying I'm not healthy enough to fly after two away games isn't good. also it lowers the quality of play on the pitch which also doesn't help ratings and ticket sales.

And surprise to you boys and girls.. but it's a business one that people are trying to make profitable.

Waggy
10-04-2011, 11:51 PM
Early march to late november is plenty of time to play all the matches. Toronto FC may play 46 matches this year, but Chivas USA will only play 35.

Sitting outside in the cold and rain maybe isn't everyones idea of fun, but 2-3 games/year at most isn't earth shattering. No one is advocating moving to a August-May schedule.

That's a problem that every team will have to deal with at some point though. And it's not just TFC, theres the potential for what, 4 or 5 MLS clubs to play Champions League? MLS can't punish teams for succeeding in the Champions League, they should encourage participation/success in that. Better Chivas has more time to rest/practice and TFC doesn't have to deal with a rash of injuries and poor play than make TFC suffer so Chivas can play once a week. But ya, I'd have no problem with the 2012 season starting March 8th and going to Oct 20 (MLS cup final Nov 17). That's still only 34 weeks though. That's still such a cramped calender. Though fewer fifa dates going forward at least opens up a few more mid season dates to have games.

edit: further to what Kaz said, it's easy for us to say we'd go. We're on a Toronto FC message board after midnight on a tuesday night in october. I don't think you'll find 22 000, even in Toronto, willing to agree with us on being outdoors in November. I have SERIOUS arguments with my friends over whether the Jays should have an outdoor stadium. They don't even want to deal with rain/wind in the SUMMER, forget winter. And they LOVE baseball

Auzzy
10-05-2011, 01:06 AM
I think the one concession that MLS makes to teams who make the CCL, is extra allocation cash. I don't know how much, & if it's worth it. I guess if it's significant $, you could carry a couple of more expensive players on your roster. They would help you with the fixture concession, and give you a bit of an advantage throughout the season, to compensate somewhat for the extra games & extra travel.

pdogg
10-05-2011, 05:18 AM
Allocation makes sense if you know that you've qualified for the CCL. with the NCC, the Canadian teams don't know if they've made the CCL or not until 1/3 of the way through the season. Allocation money at that point is somewhat moot as the transfer window is no longer open. The US based teams know they've qualified the previous season with the US Open Cup, Supporters Shield and MLS Cup. I think it would help out with fixture congestion in the NCC was used to determine next year's Canadian entrant, but that would require us to either skip a CCL or play two NCCs in one year to stay on track.

Huyton
10-05-2011, 05:56 AM
Be really nice to have Eastern teams do a "Road Trip"...playing the three Cascadia teams (Seattle, Protland and Skancouver) Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday, and then later on three California teams (Chivas, Galaxy, Earthquakes).

If it could be arranged to give a team either the week before, or the week after without a mid-week game, and that might go a long way to helping out with the onerous travel arrangements.

Auzzy
10-05-2011, 09:27 AM
Allocation makes sense if you know that you've qualified for the CCL. with the NCC, the Canadian teams don't know if they've made the CCL or not until 1/3 of the way through the season. Allocation money at that point is somewhat moot as the transfer window is no longer open. The US based teams know they've qualified the previous season with the US Open Cup, Supporters Shield and MLS Cup. I think it would help out with fixture congestion in the NCC was used to determine next year's Canadian entrant, but that would require us to either skip a CCL or play two NCCs in one year to stay on track.

I think the allo cash is for the next year, for making it farther in the CCL. I.e., RSL got extra cash for the 2011 season, for making it past last year's group stage -- which still had them playing 2010 CCL games at the start of the 2011 season. So the team can plan ahead for the new season with a better salary budget, and this makes it more worthwhile for MLS teams to try hard in the CCL. (Perhaps one reason most are doing better this year in the CCL?)

I think if TFC makes it past Dallas next week, it will improve our 2012 salary budget.

I agree it's not perfect, and doesn't help with the fixture congestion in the previous year at the time of qualification. But it does help a bit in the long run, and is an incentive for MLS teams to take the CCL seriously -- which is also good long term for the teams & the sport in NA.

Yohan
10-05-2011, 11:30 AM
Those stats are fine and dandy. But it fails to address the MLS limiting themselves to that many weeks in a season.

"its cold" is not a reason. CSKA Moscow started their season a week before TFC.
oh yeah. A lot of russian teams play on the turf, bc of weather