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View Full Version : DERO - scores fastest Hat Trick in MLS History (9 Mins)



Technorgasm
09-27-2011, 11:29 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/mls/story/2011-09-24/dc-united-de-rosario-win/50538996/1

De Rosario, who also became the first D.C. player to get multiple hat tricks in one season, as well as the fastest hat trick scored in MLS history, scored on a header in the 22nd minute, then got his second in the 27th and converted a free kick in the 31st.

He also set up the first goal for United (9-8-11), sending a perfect diagonal pass to Andy Najar, who scored in the 13th minute. DC extended its home unbeaten streak to four matches (2-0-2).

Pookie
09-27-2011, 11:31 AM
that's nice

Menelaos
09-27-2011, 11:34 AM
Good on Dero!
Glad he's doing well.

Oldtimer
09-27-2011, 11:43 AM
Nice for someone from Toronto to do well.

Carts
09-27-2011, 11:46 AM
The guy is a machine...

Shep
09-27-2011, 11:47 AM
/salute DeRo

awesome, still miss the turkey dance he rolls out after his goals, must've been dancing it up after his 3rd.

Carts
09-27-2011, 11:49 AM
/salute DeRo

awesome, still miss the turkey dance he rolls out after his goals, must've been dancing it up after his 3rd.

Everyday he's shufflin! :party:

TFCRegina
09-27-2011, 11:50 AM
Everyday he's shufflin! :party:

He works at a Casino?

Carts
09-27-2011, 11:56 AM
He works at a Casino?

C'mon hillbilly, get with it! LOL :D

Although I should have said....

EVERY GAME HE'S SHUFFLIN'...!!! :party:

uncle p
09-27-2011, 12:18 PM
^^The judges also would have accepted.....

Every game he's A shufflin

DichioTFC
09-27-2011, 12:25 PM
This thread needs more Roogsy

TOBOR !
09-27-2011, 12:26 PM
see ? he doesn't pass the ball enough.

Couchy81
09-27-2011, 12:36 PM
At least he's rubbing it in MLSE's faces. Being a Toronto boy, that must feel nice.

Kaz
09-27-2011, 12:37 PM
is everyone sure this wasn't in FIFA 2011?

well if you look at DeRo's production from last season vs Chad actually had a better production rate, Dero just had twice as many chances.

ginkster88
09-27-2011, 12:39 PM
lol

Number 1 in goals scored, Number 4 in assists... I'd say he were an MVP candidate if I knew more about MLS Awards.

ginkster88
09-27-2011, 12:40 PM
is everyone sure this wasn't in FIFA 2011?

well if you look at DeRo's production from last season vs Chad actually had a better production rate, Dero just had twice as many chances.

He's scoring at a 33% rate right now.

Pretty fucking good.

ManUtd4ever
09-27-2011, 12:41 PM
DeRo has been producing at an unbelievable clip for DCU. I wonder if DCU will be able to renegotiate the final year of his contract and make him a DP next season?

Pookie
09-27-2011, 12:44 PM
At least he's rubbing it in MLSE's faces. Being a Toronto boy, that must feel nice.

Maybe one day he will be considered on par with Jeff Cunningham.

What about the NYRB's faces and the league's face... since, as contract holder, felt he was on the right type of contract for a player of his skill?

As for TFC's face, I prefer the decision to use the DP slot on Koevermans.

That said, any time a local player has success it is good for local football.

dupont
09-27-2011, 12:44 PM
I just watched the highlights.... those second 2 goals were absolute rocket shots.

Pookie
09-27-2011, 12:45 PM
DeRo has been producing at an unbelievable clip for DCU. I wonder if DCU will be able to renegotiate the final year of his contract and make him a DP next season?

That's the league's call.

Derko
09-27-2011, 12:45 PM
I guess we are going to hear all the whining at the Town Hall's regarding TFC letting DeRo go, lol

maninb
09-27-2011, 12:46 PM
he's a good player no doubt, but I for one am glad he's not with TFc anymore...our dressing room apparently is a very tight and happy place...no place for a disgruntled ME-FIRST player like MeRo...he'd have been a cancer unless they gave him what he wanted....which was too much IMO...

Whoop
09-27-2011, 12:46 PM
I'll admit I was wrong in thinking he wouldn't be able to produce at the clip he did in the past.

eustacchio
09-27-2011, 12:50 PM
Everyday he's shufflin! :party:

I'm going to have that in my head all day.

ManUtd4ever
09-27-2011, 12:56 PM
That's the league's call.

Precisely, which is why I'm curious to see how the situation will develop. I loved DeRo when he was with TFC, but I'll admit that I hold a grudge against him for demanding to be traded, considering that the new management regime apparently did everything within their power to appease him financially. If he ends up playing for DCU next season without a DP tag, then he is a hypocrite and a traitor in my books.

Couchy81
09-27-2011, 12:58 PM
he's a good player no doubt, but I for one am glad he's not with TFc anymore...our dressing room apparently is a very tight and happy place...no place for a disgruntled ME-FIRST player like MeRo...he'd have been a cancer unless they gave him what he wanted....which was too much IMO...

The question is, did the dressing room have lung cancer, or skin cancer?

flatpicker
09-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Good for him.
I have no ill will towards the guy.
Any dispute he had was with management,
And it's too bad they couldn't find their happy place.

I doubt TFC is all that sad to see DeRo doing well right now.
It was best for the club's moral to have him move on.

On the other hand, NY made a tactical decision when trading him away.
And they may be regretting that right now.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
09-27-2011, 05:48 PM
Definitely not Dp worthy....

Gazza
09-27-2011, 06:04 PM
It's nice that we have a tight-knit team that can't win.

Good on DeRo, not that he has to prove anything to anyone.

KezmanCCCC
09-27-2011, 06:04 PM
remind me why did we get rid of dero again, besides the fact that he is greedy???

Brooker
09-27-2011, 06:17 PM
good for dero. more importantly I hope he can do the same with Canada.


remind me why did we get rid of dero again, besides the fact that he is greedy???

he didn't want to play here for the money he agreed to play for and asked to be traded.

Pookie
09-27-2011, 06:33 PM
he didn't want to play here for the money he agreed to play for and asked to be traded.

... and is playing there... well not there anymore but a new there... for the same money he agreed to play for here

CretanBull
09-27-2011, 08:40 PM
Definitely not Dp worthy....

Agreed. DP slots shouldn't be wasted on league-leading scorers who drag their team from the bottom of the league into play-off contention, they're meant for big name players who solidify their team's position at the bottom of the table.

ggXmKPMaHMo

:D

QSIM
09-27-2011, 11:33 PM
how neat is that!

SoccMan
09-27-2011, 11:43 PM
Yes the decision making of this organization has done wonders for this club, just look at how these great moves over the past few years has done wonders for the popularity of this team, that was a great crowd there last night at the Pumas game it brought back great memories of being at Crew Stadium in Columbus!

Blowing Bubbles
09-27-2011, 11:53 PM
DC seems to have that redemption thing going right now ...... between Charlie Davis and DeRo that's a lot of firepower and 2 guys who are looking to prove a lot of ppl wrong.

The playoff format is such that if DCU manages to get into the playoffs, a CD9 + DeRo combo is more than enough to rattle off the necessary win streak to win it all.

TFCREDNWHITE
09-28-2011, 01:02 AM
If Dero n company make it into the playoffs..n then win the MLS Cup! I will go through on my bet...
Of watching 2 girls 1 cup....

Waggy
09-28-2011, 02:23 AM
Dero is a great player, and having a great year. But am I drunk or did we SUCK last year, with Dero? Didn't we establish that a poacher like that is a nice finishing piece on a team ready to contend, but not a building block unless they bring a bit more to the table, either on the field or in some intangible quality? Didn't Houston figure that out before us? And new York after? And now DC gets to reap the benefits. Good on em, but just cause he did it there doesn't mean he'd have done it here.

Mikey
09-28-2011, 06:26 AM
loving the squirming from the Dero haters / MLSE coolaid drinkers...... Best player we ever had. Trading him indirectly for Iro was the worst fucking trade in the history of the MLS.

Fort York Redcoat
09-28-2011, 07:10 AM
loving the squirming from the Dero haters / MLSE coolaid drinkers...... Best player we ever had. Trading him indirectly for Iro was the worst fucking trade in the history of the MLS.

I'm not sure adding that word negates the oversimplifying of the situation you've done there.

Pookie
09-28-2011, 07:29 AM
loving the squirming from the Dero haters / MLSE coolaid drinkers...... Best player we ever had. Trading him indirectly for Iro was the worst fucking trade in the history of the MLS.

Well, Iro, Borman and a first round pick.. Oh and an empty DP slot that became Koevermans. Yep, worst trade ever.

Even worse than DeRo for Dax McCarthy

I guess it is true. Ignorance is bliss

Beach_Red
09-28-2011, 08:44 AM
The best thing that came out of the DeRo saga was the solving of the behind the scenes power struggle. Winter said he wanted to keep DeRo but someone above him traded him anyway. It took a little while after that but finally, mid-season, Winter was able to fully take over the team and it's been improving steadily since then.

Carts
09-28-2011, 09:09 AM
Well, Iro, Borman and a first round pick.. Oh and an empty DP slot that became Koevermans. Yep, worst trade ever.

Even worse than DeRo for Dax McCarthy

I guess it is true. Ignorance is bliss

Huh?

I know you hate the guy but he wasn't using a DP slot or moved to bring in Koevermans...

Did Dero want a DP slot - yup... Did he have one - nope...

Winter would have had Frings and Koevermans here regardless...

Would it ruffle feathers if all three were here - we can all speculate (and probably would have) but don't make stuff up Pookie...

Belfast_Boy
09-28-2011, 09:23 AM
I miss Dero. good for him.

Whoop
09-28-2011, 09:31 AM
Well, Iro, Borman and a first round pick.. Oh and an empty DP slot that became Koevermans. Yep, worst trade ever.

Even worse than DeRo for Dax McCarthy

I guess it is true. Ignorance is bliss

Iro, Borman and 1st round pick ain't that great a haul.

I wouldn't be surprised if Iro or Borman won't be on TFC's lineup next season.

Definitely not in their starting lineup.

Pookie
09-28-2011, 09:35 AM
Huh?

I know you hate the guy but he wasn't using a DP slot or moved to bring in Koevermans...

Did Dero want a DP slot - yup... Did he have one - nope...

Winter would have had Frings and Koevermans here regardless...

Would it ruffle feathers if all three were here - we can all speculate (and probably would have) but don't make stuff up Pookie...

If DP slot is used on DeRO, which was the source of his discontent, it could only be used on one of Frings or Koevermans.

I like how folks try to portray this DP issue as a non issue when he stated many times he wanted it. And his contract demands, ie DP tag ,were one of the reasons NY traded him, feeling they would have difficulty in the offseason.

As for other comments above re: DC in the playoffs, I misplaced my playoff ticket stubs from the last 2 seasons we had the guy.

Suds
09-28-2011, 09:40 AM
Good for DeRo.

I hope he continues his scoring streak when he suits up for Canada.

Wull
09-28-2011, 09:44 AM
Where's this squirming people are supposedly seeing?

Carts
09-28-2011, 09:47 AM
If DP slot is used on DeRO, which was the source of his discontent, it could only be used on one of Frings or Koevermans.

I like how folks try to portray this DP issue as a non issue when he stated many times he wanted it. And his contract demands, ie DP tag ,were one of the reasons NY traded him, feeling they would have difficulty in the offseason.

As for other comments above re: DC in the playoffs, I misplaced my playoff ticket stubs from the last 2 seasons we had the guy.

If...??? IT WASN'T...

We did not trade Dero for Koevermans... Try as you might, (and hell, I'm damn happy Frings and Koevy are here!) that DID NOT HAPPEN...

Anyways, as a mod and calm thinker I'm gonna end my participation in this thread now... And in fact, going to make a recommendation that it is closed...

Its bringing up old bias, and speculation as fact - which does not help support our current boys on pitch...

Carts...

dow117
09-28-2011, 09:54 AM
remind me why did we get rid of dero again, besides the fact that he is greedy???

Simple ... he's a prick

Suds
09-28-2011, 10:00 AM
c'mon ... can we just keep one thread on topic from what the original OP started?

Nothing productive can come of rehashing old debates where people's positions have already been clearly stated.

Jack
09-28-2011, 10:03 AM
Good for him, I'm glad to see he's doing well. As for why he left here, it wasn't working. Say all you want about how great he is (and he is a great player) he is gone. He wasn't happy anymore because our management, for better or worse, was unwilling to give him the DP slot. Anyone who doubted his ability has certainly been proven wrong by his play this season.

As for Pookie's point, indirectly, not signing DeRo did indeed allow us to sign two DPs instead of just one, though of course we would still have DeRo.

Either way, he's gone, he's not coming back. Freaking out about it over and over is not going to change or help the situation. Edson Buddle also left and then tore this league a new one. So did Jeff Cunningham. Sometimes, players are happier and perform better in other situations. I attribute the previous two to our illustrious departed manager, MoJo, while the DeRo situation is shared between old and new management.

Time to move on.

tfcleeds
09-28-2011, 10:13 AM
Good for him. I have no ill will towards the guy. You can't say he didn't perform well when he was here, and that's what counts in my book.

Having said that, he's no longer with us, so while I wish him well, I'm not slashing my wrists over it either. Onwards.

Pookie
09-28-2011, 10:42 AM
Iro, Borman and 1st round pick ain't that great a haul.

I wouldn't be surprised if Iro or Borman won't be on TFC's lineup next season.

Definitely not in their starting lineup.

I include the DP slot in the equation as not using it provided flexibility to make it a positive haul. But for fun, let's take that out and assume we didn't get a great return.

Why is this"superstar" continually traded for a number of "aint great hauls"?

He came to Toronto for Julius James and allocation money

He went to NY for what you call "aint that great of a haul"

He went to DC for Dax McCarthy.

Why is he so often "undervaled" in trades? Is there a "baggage discount"?

0t

Dreadlocks
09-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Isn't the point of this thread to give the guy his due? They guy scored the fastest hat-trick in MLS history - with style I may add and will go down as one of the best to play in the MLS and Canada. Story Done!

GO DERO GO (if ur not playing against TFC)

No point in repeating everything. He came, he left, get over it already!

**Sorry jack. just noticed you said pretty much the same thing**

Jack
09-28-2011, 10:58 AM
I include the DP slot in the equation as not using it provided flexibility to make it a positive haul. But for fun, let's take that out and assume we didn't get a great return.

Why is this"superstar" continually traded for a number of "aint great hauls"?

He came to Toronto for Julius James and allocation money

He went to NY for what you call "aint that great of a haul"

He went to DC for Dax McCarthy.

Why is he so often "undervaled" in trades? Is there a "baggage discount"?

0t

I'm pretty sure there was no chance in hell of using the DP on DeRo, as my understanding is that Koev and Frings had committed to Winter before the season. So the DP slot wasn't really in play. I get what you're saying, but I disagree that the DP slot was a part of this equation, since it was never on the table from a management point of view.

Chevy
09-28-2011, 11:02 AM
Well, Iro, Borman and a first round pick.. Oh and an empty DP slot that became Koevermans. Yep, worst trade ever.

Even worse than DeRo for Dax McCarthy

I guess it is true. Ignorance is bliss


...and don't for get all the drama and cancerous BS that magically vanished along with him. I'm happy that he's doing well, but more pleased that he's gone.

Dreadlocks
09-28-2011, 11:05 AM
I'm pretty sure there was no chance in hell of using the DP on DeRo, as my understanding is that Koev and Frings had committed to Winter before the season. So the DP slot wasn't really in play. I get what you're saying, but I disagree that the DP slot was a part of this equation, since it was never on the table from a management point of view.

Very interesting. Although the season has been crap, it's good to see a bit more proof that our management had/has a plan unlike the previous regime.

jabbronies
09-28-2011, 11:21 AM
Good for DeRo.

I hope he continues his scoring streak when he suits up for Canada.

This. We need goals...and lots of them.
I just hope he can convert on his chances on a national level.

Pookie
09-28-2011, 11:32 AM
I'm pretty sure there was no chance in hell of using the DP on DeRo, as my understanding is that Koev and Frings had committed to Winter before the season. So the DP slot wasn't really in play. I get what you're saying, but I disagree that the DP slot was a part of this equation, since it was never on the table from a management point of view.

If the other DPs were committed to and the DP desires for DeRo were known via 2009 interview on Offtherecord and his cheque signing, that would represent a conscious decision on the part of the new management to pull it from the equation.

Regardless, at the end of the day, the trade he demanded was good for both sides.

Fort York Redcoat
09-28-2011, 11:41 AM
It's unfortunate he can't score like that for TFC anymore but it puts more onus on him to finally take the all-time Canada scoring title.

Canary10
09-28-2011, 11:56 AM
Glad DeRo's doing well at DC. It's kind of an intersting thought to consider a TFC midfield with Frings, JDG and DeRo.

Having said that, I don't think DeRo would do well under Winter. DeRo is a very selfish player. I only mean that partly as a criticism, since his selfishness is partly why he scores so many goals - it's a needed trait of a goal scorer. But he rarely lays a ball off. In the last Canada game at home I can't count the number of times he could have/should have laid the ball of to someone but didn't and took it himself. Actually, for me the most surprising thing about his stats this year is the number of assists. I have no idea how he's done that given he never passes. If Winter's coaching style is anything like how he played the game, I don't think selfish players would last too long with him. He was very much a team guy.

Still, it's an interesting thought...

habstfc
09-28-2011, 12:41 PM
Boy the red bulls really have egg on their face after that trade. There is also a very good chance they (NY) won't even make the playoffs this year. DC has 2 games in hand and are only 2 points behind NY.

I am a fan of dero but scoring 13 goals so far and winning the golden boot won't mean a whole lot if DC doesn't make the playoffs. Also scoring half of your goals in 2 games isn't the best way to get results out of those goals. If those were spread out a bit more evenly DC might be in a better position for the playoffs instead of being in a fight.

Good for him though, I wish things could have worked out here.

One more thing can a player have more than one nomination for goal of the week? Cause all 3, especially the first 2 are winners.

Oldtimer
09-28-2011, 01:24 PM
... and is playing there... well not there anymore but a new there... for the same money he agreed to play for here

It will be interesting to see if DC will give him their DP slot... and the league will approve it. His recent comments about "putting his foot down" suggest that he will insist on it.

DichioTFC
09-28-2011, 01:37 PM
^ If the league doesn't, where does that leave him? I'm sure his only goal is to play in an elite league (or MLS :D), but what if he doesn't get his DP money?

Sidenote: I dont know about anyone else, but I find that as a non-TFC player, it's much easier to support DeRo's quest for more money. Still think he's an asshole for his final Toronto days, especially as captain, but I support him getting more cash.

Oldtimer
09-28-2011, 01:52 PM
If another club is footing the bill, I'm all in favour. Pay him as much as he wants, and then some!!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3240/3041939159_e881326560_o.jpg

MisterMacphisto
09-28-2011, 09:38 PM
I don't think it ever was in dispute that DeRo was/is a great player.

The bottom line, he is playing for DC as a non-DP, non-captain, regular salary budget player.

Would I rather have him doing that in his hometown of Toronto with the contract he signed? Of course.

Hope he continues to carry that success to CMNT.

That boy does seem to love playing at RFK.

ginkster88
09-28-2011, 09:39 PM
Glad DeRo's doing well at DC. It's kind of an intersting thought to consider a TFC midfield with Frings, JDG and DeRo.

Having said that, I don't think DeRo would do well under Winter. DeRo is a very selfish player. I only mean that partly as a criticism, since his selfishness is partly why he scores so many goals - it's a needed trait of a goal scorer. But he rarely lays a ball off. In the last Canada game at home I can't count the number of times he could have/should have laid the ball of to someone but didn't and took it himself. Actually, for me the most surprising thing about his stats this year is the number of assists. I have no idea how he's done that given he never passes. If Winter's coaching style is anything like how he played the game, I don't think selfish players would last too long with him. He was very much a team guy.

Still, it's an interesting thought...

Yet he's fourth in the league for assists.

Yohan
09-28-2011, 10:01 PM
Yet he's fourth in the league for assists.
that throughball to Najar was a thing of beauty

DeRo is NEVER, EVER, EVER getting DP in MLS. the league WILL NOT allow it

league wide repercussions it would have would be too huge. heck, DeRo can win the MLS MVP and he's still not get DP contract

Canary10
09-29-2011, 09:24 AM
Yet he's fourth in the league for assists.

That's why I said his number of assists was the most surprising stat. Must have had a lot of knock downs or something.

ryan
09-29-2011, 09:51 AM
His pass to Najar was as impressive as those goals. He was a league above anyone on that pitch from what the highlights showed.

Gonna be kind of hilarious when a guy traded TWICE in the same season wins the bloody MVP.

DichioTFC
09-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Dear DeRo Fan Club,

Another article talking about how great Dwayne is. Enjoy

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/09/27/talking-tactics-tracing-evolution-de-rosarios-game?module=from_footer

Klinsmann
09-29-2011, 05:48 PM
remind me why did we get rid of dero again, besides the fact that he is greedy???

We traded him for Iro and Borman!

Ossington Mental Youth
09-29-2011, 06:17 PM
and griffit and he didnt want to play here.
really psyched we got another thread addressing the DeRo situation.

ag futbol
09-29-2011, 07:54 PM
and griffit and he didnt want to play here because the contract situation got messy but if we actually paid up he would have stayed.
really psyched we got another thread addressing the DeRo situation.
FYP :)

GBV
09-29-2011, 08:15 PM
He has a goal tonight as well.

On fire.

bertal
09-29-2011, 08:21 PM
#tfcmistakes should be trending on twitter or we should assemble a book of small anecdotes about tfc

Pookie
09-29-2011, 08:26 PM
#Player_demands_trade_yet_some_fans_feel_like_jilt ed_lover_so_misremember_the_situation_to_ease_thei r_pain is more popular

69Chevy396
09-29-2011, 08:32 PM
To the average TFC fan the DERO trade was and is, the dumbest thing this club has done in its five year history. For many of us this trade, more than anything else, has put us off this team and ruined soccer for us here after so much promise. I am not renewing. TFC is boring and plays mediocre soccer at the best of times. What you are seeing now is the best we can hope for from Winter, and they still suck. Moving the best offensive player in the league this season has to go down from the neutral observer as completly, and utterly idiotic. But this is Toronto and we have mlse and everybody adores these guys for some reason. The naysayers say; he wanted out. NO he didn't. He wanted more money, a lot of athletes do this, you don't trade them for nothing just to prove you are the boss. Winter has shit for brains for doing this. I hope DeRo takes DC to the championship. I know i will be cheering him.

Pookie
09-29-2011, 08:38 PM
^ he wanted more money here but is apparently very happy to play for the same money elsewhere.

I missed all the exciting playoff football we had when he was here. Remind me of that epic performance he had in NY when we were on the verge of a playoff spot playing the worst team on the last game of the season. I can't find the scoreline but surely this leader was able to accomplish something worthy of all the greatness you are heaping on him?

JDG has become more of a "local hero" to me for his character, attitude and achievements abroad.

No one forces you to be a fan of Toronto FC. Enjoy your new team.

AL-MO
09-29-2011, 08:59 PM
^ he wanted more money here but is apparently very happy to play for the same money elsewhere.

I missed all the exciting playoff football we had when he was here. Remind me of that epic performance he had in NY when we were on the verge of a playoff spot playing the worst team on the last game of the season. I can't find the scoreline but surely this leader was able to accomplish something worthy of all the greatness you are heaping on him?

JDG has become more of a "local hero" to me for his character, attitude and achievements abroad.

No one forces you to be a fan of Toronto FC. Enjoy your new team.

Please don't, I was there and would like to forget that weekend/trip/game ever happened.

AL-MO
09-29-2011, 09:00 PM
Good for him, I'm glad to see he's doing well. As for why he left here, it wasn't working. Say all you want about how great he is (and he is a great player) he is gone. He wasn't happy anymore because our management, for better or worse, was unwilling to give him the DP slot. Anyone who doubted his ability has certainly been proven wrong by his play this season.

As for Pookie's point, indirectly, not signing DeRo did indeed allow us to sign two DPs instead of just one, though of course we would still have DeRo.

Either way, he's gone, he's not coming back. Freaking out about it over and over is not going to change or help the situation. Edson Buddle also left and then tore this league a new one. So did Jeff Cunningham. Sometimes, players are happier and perform better in other situations. I attribute the previous two to our illustrious departed manager, MoJo, while the DeRo situation is shared between old and new management.

Time to move on.

^ Best post regarding DERO.

ensco
09-29-2011, 09:18 PM
It's often not a good idea for a star player to make a move to play in his hometown in his prime. Dero, Anelka at PSG, Podolski at Cologne, Robinho at Santos, are all examples of how these moves can go wrong, each for different reasons.

(Podolski is actually finally playing better the last couple of weeks, I know, and Fabregas will be an exception, I know)

Pookie
09-30-2011, 07:08 AM
^ If the league doesn't, where does that leave him? I'm sure his only goal is to play in an elite league (or MLS :D), but what if he doesn't get his DP money?

Sidenote: I dont know about anyone else, but I find that as a non-TFC player, it's much easier to support DeRo's quest for more money. Still think he's an asshole for his final Toronto days, especially as captain, but I support him getting more cash.

It will be interesting.

Jeff Cunningham scored 33 goals over 2 seasons (2009 to 2010) winning the Golden Boot in 2009. He was then released and signed with Columbus For $150k in 2011.

Not exactly a promising precedent for the DeRo camp and Cunningham never backed the league into a public corner.

Fort York Redcoat
09-30-2011, 07:13 AM
To the average TFC fan the DERO trade was and is, the dumbest thing this club has done in its five year history. For many of us this trade, more than anything else, has put us off this team and ruined soccer for us here after so much promise. I am not renewing. TFC is boring and plays mediocre soccer at the best of times. What you are seeing now is the best we can hope for from Winter, and they still suck. Moving the best offensive player in the league this season has to go down from the neutral observer as completly, and utterly idiotic. But this is Toronto and we have mlse and everybody adores these guys for some reason. The naysayers say; he wanted out. NO he didn't. He wanted more money, a lot of athletes do this, you don't trade them for nothing just to prove you are the boss. Winter has shit for brains for doing this. I hope DeRo takes DC to the championship. I know i will be cheering him.

To all average TFC fans and nuetral observers like yourself I'd pose the question What msg board are you reading where everyone loves MLSE?

My only concern is that he can translate his success to the International stage next week against St. Lucia and Puerto Rico.

__wowza
09-30-2011, 08:26 AM
really psyched we got another thread addressing the DeRo situation.

+1 (unfortunately i have to go into this..)


To the average TFC fan the DERO trade was and is, the dumbest thing this club has done in its five year history. For many of us this trade, more than anything else, has put us off this team and ruined soccer for us here after so much promise. I am not renewing. TFC is boring and plays mediocre soccer at the best of times. What you are seeing now is the best we can hope for from Winter, and they still suck. Moving the best offensive player in the league this season has to go down from the neutral observer as completly, and utterly idiotic. But this is Toronto and we have mlse and everybody adores these guys for some reason. The naysayers say; he wanted out. NO he didn't. He wanted more money, a lot of athletes do this, you don't trade them for nothing just to prove you are the boss. Winter has shit for brains for doing this. I hope DeRo takes DC to the championship. I know i will be cheering him.

could you be a bit more melodramatic over the internwebs?honestly, listen to yourself. trading dero ruined soccer for you here? it RUINED soccer for you here? tell ya what, if a player leaving ruins the sport for you in a city, and you're cheering them elsewhere, you weren't a TFC fan, you were a dero fan.

and what, who adores MLSE? have you been reading the board at all or was this your first post in 4 years?

and he did want out. YES he did. he wanted more money, he wanted DP money. we werent prepared to give him that so he wanted out. you cant say "i want a raise, if you dont give me a raise ill quit and it'll be your fault!" to your boss, and then claim you didnt want to leave. athletes do it all the time eh? yeah, and there fans don't end up hating them for wanting to play for a team that'll give them more money? worked for lebron james amirite?



jesus, i can't tell if you're trolling or if you actually believe you know what you're talking about. this isn't even a difference of opinion here, i legtimately think you're trying to be as irrational as possible.

69Chevy396
09-30-2011, 06:05 PM
+1 (unfortunately i have to go into this..)



could you be a bit more melodramatic over the internwebs?honestly, listen to yourself. trading dero ruined soccer for you here? it RUINED soccer for you here? tell ya what, if a player leaving ruins the sport for you in a city, and you're cheering them elsewhere, you weren't a TFC fan, you were a dero fan.

and what, who adores MLSE? have you been reading the board at all or was this your first post in 4 years?

and he did want out. YES he did. he wanted more money, he wanted DP money. we werent prepared to give him that so he wanted out. you cant say "i want a raise, if you dont give me a raise ill quit and it'll be your fault!" to your boss, and then claim you didnt want to leave. athletes do it all the time eh? yeah, and there fans don't end up hating them for wanting to play for a team that'll give them more money? worked for lebron james amirite?



jesus, i can't tell if you're trolling or if you actually believe you know what you're talking about. this isn't even a difference of opinion here, i legtimately think you're trying to be as irrational as possible.

Amusing. I suppose the fact I was part of the bandwagon that welcomed him here with open arms, back when these boards were full of accolades, some gushing others just awestruck, that Dero was finally a TFC player, a home town star. The difference between you and me is that I never lost that feeling. For me, sports entertainment is not an exact science or a serious endeavor. Call me stupid, whatever, but sometimes I select a movie because of the star, or a novel, because of the author. Had i known Dero would have been traded for two goats, I would never have renewed. This season is my last. I am not renewing. Does that make me a troll? I paid my dues, while there are some people on these boards, who are not members, who may never have even paid for a single ticket to a single game. I have my opinion. Soccer for me was watching Zidane, or Juventus, or Gattuso, or the gutsy play of the Uruguay team at the world cup.....never has been mls before TFC came along. So call me stupid for liking good soccer, TFC is simply not good soccer. When Koevermans craps out next season, when they still cannot find a defender who can defend, or a striker who cannot score, remember you had the best Canadian striker in the history of this country on your team and you applauded his leaving.

habstfc
09-30-2011, 06:20 PM
When Koevermans craps out next season, when they still cannot find a defender who can defend, or a striker who cannot score, remember you had the best Canadian striker in the history of this country on your team and you applauded his leaving.

I think you're making his point. Why are you assuming a player that actually played at a very high level in europe is going to crap out, especially after the way he has played so far?

Dero asked for a trade and was traded, it happens all the time in sports, why some people can't seem to get over that is beyond me.

Auzzy
09-30-2011, 07:09 PM
What this thread needs is more violins.




Oh look, I found them! :violin: :violin: :violin:

AL-MO
09-30-2011, 07:49 PM
What this thread needs is more violins.




Oh look, I found them! :violin: :violin: :violin:

Indeed we do for posts like these:


To the average TFC fan the DERO trade was and is, the dumbest thing this club has done in its five year history. For many of us this trade, more than anything else, has put us off this team and ruined soccer for us here after so much promise. I am not renewing. TFC is boring and plays mediocre soccer at the best of times. What you are seeing now is the best we can hope for from Winter, and they still suck. Moving the best offensive player in the league this season has to go down from the neutral observer as completly, and utterly idiotic. But this is Toronto and we have mlse and everybody adores these guys for some reason. The naysayers say; he wanted out. NO he didn't. He wanted more money, a lot of athletes do this, you don't trade them for nothing just to prove you are the boss. Winter has shit for brains for doing this. I hope DeRo takes DC to the championship. I know i will be cheering him.


Amusing. I suppose the fact I was part of the bandwagon that welcomed him here with open arms, back when these boards were full of accolades, some gushing others just awestruck, that Dero was finally a TFC player, a home town star. The difference between you and me is that I never lost that feeling. For me, sports entertainment is not an exact science or a serious endeavor. Call me stupid, whatever, but sometimes I select a movie because of the star, or a novel, because of the author. Had i known Dero would have been traded for two goats, I would never have renewed. This season is my last. I am not renewing. Does that make me a troll? I paid my dues, while there are some people on these boards, who are not members, who may never have even paid for a single ticket to a single game. I have my opinion. Soccer for me was watching Zidane, or Juventus, or Gattuso, or the gutsy play of the Uruguay team at the world cup.....never has been mls before TFC came along. So call me stupid for liking good soccer, TFC is simply not good soccer. When Koevermans craps out next season, when they still cannot find a defender who can defend, or a striker who cannot score, remember you had the best Canadian striker in the history of this country on your team and you applauded his leaving.

I don't think anyone ever denies that he has been our best player. It just didn't work out. Alot of us have chosen to move on, and...well...some clearly haven't. I for one am glad we haven't had to deal with any "dero drama" this season.

Pookie
10-01-2011, 12:22 PM
I hate to keep this going but I have to ask a question to 69Chevy396

Chevy, I get what it is like to see a player you really like move on. In '94 the Leafs traded Wendel Clark to the Quebec Nordiques and I was gutted. I was about 17 years younger, I had Wendel everything from posters, to signed jerseys to hockey cards. I had watched him since '85. When we played street hockey, I called out that "I'm Clark".

I try to use that experience to understand what DeRo meant to you and why you'd abandon a team because a player left.

I get that DeRo scored goals and many of them. I was cheering loudly when we beat Montreal 6-1 and still cheer for him when he wears the Canada kit.

That said, outside of goal scoring and the fact his mom's vagina happened to be in Scarborough when he was born, what is it about him that sparks this emotion in you?

With Wendel Clark it about was his leadership, his heart and soul. He gave his body for the team. The fact that a rough and tumble Western hockey player cried when he was traded. A true captain in every sense of the word. The embodiment of everything that my Dad taught me captains and teammates were about.

With DeRo, I just don't see it. I see a player that disappeared when the team lost some significant games, both on the field and afterwards. eg. In the 5-0 NY loss, Edwards and Cronin were the lone players to face the media. We have the cheque signing, the holdout threat, never showing up at a TFC Pub Crawl, the whole "permission" thing, the "I never asked to be traded" that became "Ok, yeah, I asked to be traded", etc.

The only real off-field positive I can recall of his was speaking out on behalf of his teammates when MLSE trucked in real grass for the Real Madrid game while making them play on artificial turf, risking injury, the rest of the time.

So, open mic for you. Aside from goals and geography, what is it that makes him worthy of your admiration?

Alonso
10-02-2011, 08:59 PM
loving the squirming from the Dero haters / MLSE coolaid drinkers...... Best player we ever had. Trading him indirectly for Iro was the worst fucking trade in the history of the MLS.

http://podcast.tsn.ca/tsnradio/Paul%20Mariner%20on%20GD%2010-01-11.mp3

Listen from the 7:23 mark, for the other side of the coin.

ArmenJBX
10-02-2011, 09:11 PM
Koevermans is the best player we've ever had.

Shakes McQueen
10-02-2011, 09:52 PM
When Koevermans craps out next season, when they still cannot find a defender who can defend, or a striker who cannot score, remember you had the best Canadian striker in the history of this country on your team and you applauded his leaving.

Y'know, you're entitled to think trading DeRo, or not giving him whatever he wanted was a mistake - and there is a reasonable argument to be made there (even though the situation was far more complicated than "derp, let's trade DeRo!") - but sentences like the above really deep-six your credibility.

"When Koevermans craps out next season"? On what basis do you possibly proclaim this? Koevermans has been the definition of a a striker who CAN score since he arrived here. And moreover, he has a higher football pedigree than DeRo ever had, spending most of his career in the Eredivisie, so your expectation that he will "crap out" is entirely without merit.

Moving on - on what merit do you proclaim that this is the best we will see from Aron Winter's TFC?

I also find it kind of humorous that your argument is predicated on the statement that you like good soccer, yet the team also played this mediocre, "boring" soccer you speak of, while DeRo was still part of the team.

DeRo is a good player, and will rightfully go down as one of the best MLS players in history. But it also became clear that his time here had become untenable, for a variety of reasons - some squarely his fault, and some squarely the fault of an incompetent front office. And it still remains to be seen if he will get the DP status he wants.

I don't regret the team deciding to move on, and using some of the salary cap space provided by his departure to bring in our two designated players. Sometimes that's just best for all involved, when a situation get's too poisonous.

We've traded players before, who went on to have good seasons elsewhere (Buddle and Cunningham, to name two). Life will go on.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
10-02-2011, 09:53 PM
Koevermans is the best player we've ever had.

Too early to say. If he maintains this form over 2-3 seasons with us though, I think you could make a good case for that.

He has a lot of the qualities we loved about Dichio, but with even better finishing ability. He also seems to be having a blast out there, playing for us, which is infectious to the fanbase.

- Scott

Derko
10-03-2011, 05:41 AM
Holy Fuck this is still going on, I think everyone on this board can appreciate each other's opinion, like or dislike DeRo, and the should have ,would have, could have, afterthoughts. But isn't getting a little tired, the same arguments from the same people, I think most are keeping the debate alive because they just want to be heard and fill space. Just my opinion, not on DeRo but on why this thread is still going on. The past is the past no changing it so move on.

Oldtimer
10-03-2011, 08:05 AM
Holy Fuck this is still going on, I think everyone on this board can appreciate each other's opinion, like or dislike DeRo, and the should have ,would have, could have, afterthoughts. But isn't getting a little tired, the same arguments from the same people, I think most are keeping the debate alive because they just want to be heard and fill space. Just my opinion, not on DeRo but on why this thread is still going on. The past is the past no changing it so move on.

This is a message board. People talk. As long as they are positive and respectful, they can talk about DeRo this year, next year, and long after he's retired. Most of us have moved on, but for others it will be a long drawn-out process. That's normal.

Now, we can also talk about Andy Welsh. He's been coming on as a late sub for Francois Zoko for Carlisle United. His Carlisle is 12th on the League One table, pretty close to where TFC was in MLS when he played for us. He was the only true winger TFC had for 3 years. How would he do in a 4-3-3? :D

v00d00daddy
10-03-2011, 08:45 AM
http://podcast.tsn.ca/tsnradio/Paul%20Mariner%20on%20GD%2010-01-11.mp3

Listen from the 7:23 mark, for the other side of the coin.

Thanks for this. It's odd that it's getting glossed over.

Pretty plainly put by Mariner.

Long story short:

-TFC wanted to keep DeRo and offered him what they considered a good deal. Presumably a re-negotiated contract for at least marginally more money. They know he is a great MLS player and a hometown guy.

-DeRo didn't want it so BDK and AW's philosophy is you wanna be at TFC good...if not...off you go. They need to move on and build the club.

-then Mariner went on to bring up the Tevez situation at Man City and said you can see how one bad apple can spoil the bunch and then quickly qualified the statement saying something like "not to say Dwayne is that" (read into that however you like but for me its a pretty clear indicator that they felt DeRo sticking around would be a distraction to what they were trying to do)

So...cue the Mariner is an idiot comments. LOL

For me...DeRo could score 40 goals a year and win MVP every one of those years and I wouldn't want him here for the simple reason that I don't think he's capable of working out in what the staff at TFC are trying to do.

I said it long before Winter or BDK were here and long before the cheque signing incident. He's a massive individual talent but doesn't play a style of game that lends itself to playing within a defined role with defined responsibilities.

Derko
10-03-2011, 10:24 AM
This is a message board. People talk. As long as they are positive and respectful, they can talk about DeRo this year, next year, and long after he's retired. Most of us have moved on, but for others it will be a long drawn-out process. That's normal.

Now, we can also talk about Andy Welsh. He's been coming on as a late sub for Francois Zoko for Carlisle United. His Carlisle is 12th on the League One table, pretty close to where TFC was in MLS when he played for us. He was the only true winger TFC had for 3 years. How would he do in a 4-3-3? :D


I know, and respectfully so, I always had a soft spot for Andy Welsh, bad coaching totally ruined any confidence the kid had, I do still remember that goal he scored on a cold rainy night, and all the supporters cheered like crazy. I think he would do well in 4-3-3

Carts
10-03-2011, 10:27 AM
I know, and respectfully so, I always had a soft spot for Andy Welsh, bad coaching totally ruined any confidence the kid had, I do still remember that goal he scored on a cold rainy night, and all the supporters cheered like crazy. I think he would do well in 4-3-3

Andy Welsh can take heart that he is in the Red Patch Boys record book...

His song, was the longest single song ever sung on a bus trip...

On the way back from Chicago I think we went over an hour singing that tune... Over and over... LOL

We weren't too popular on that bus trip and I'm pretty sure we shouldn't have been allowed to cross the border in the state we were in, but errr, it all worked out in the end...

The '...and Number-1 is Andy Welsh, and number..." tune is now banned :(

Carts... :D

jazzy
10-03-2011, 03:42 PM
Too early to say. If he maintains this form over 2-3 seasons with us though, I think you could make a good case for that.

He has a lot of the qualities we loved about Dichio, but with even better finishing ability. He also seems to be having a blast out there, playing for us, which is infectious to the fanbase.

- Scott

Mr. Dichio means so much to our past history, yes, of course...but moving on, Koevermans is a huge step above, let's not forget he's much more agile his goals speak for themselves,......reminds me of the gentleman at the townhall who actually asked Winters/DeKlerk when we were going to get a 'tall' player like Dichio to control the crosses in.....DeKlerk looked astonished mentioning duh,...Koevermans, adding he had scored a few goals with his head........:facepalm:

Roogsy
10-03-2011, 05:26 PM
Thanks for this. It's odd that it's getting glossed over.

Pretty plainly put by Mariner.

Long story short:

-TFC wanted to keep DeRo and offered him what they considered a good deal. Presumably a re-negotiated contract for at least marginally more money. They know he is a great MLS player and a hometown guy.

-DeRo didn't want it so BDK and AW's philosophy is you wanna be at TFC good...if not...off you go. They need to move on and build the club.

-then Mariner went on to bring up the Tevez situation at Man City and said you can see how one bad apple can spoil the bunch and then quickly qualified the statement saying something like "not to say Dwayne is that" (read into that however you like but for me its a pretty clear indicator that they felt DeRo sticking around would be a distraction to what they were trying to do)

So...cue the Mariner is an idiot comments. LOL

For me...DeRo could score 40 goals a year and win MVP every one of those years and I wouldn't want him here for the simple reason that I don't think he's capable of working out in what the staff at TFC are trying to do.

I said it long before Winter or BDK were here and long before the cheque signing incident. He's a massive individual talent but doesn't play a style of game that lends itself to playing within a defined role with defined responsibilities.


I've stayed out of this thread for the most part and I certainy won't be participating on an extensive basis, but this post here confuses me.

If you think that keeping DeRo around was going to be a mistake, does it make sense to offer him a contract for more money? Ignoring the fact that he didn't take it, what if he would have? Would that have made Winter and Mariner smart or stupid for trying to keep him? The evidence points to DeRo asking for a trade once there was an impasse at the negotiation table, how can people then credit Winter for getting rid of a supposed bad apple?

The part that has always bothered me about the DeRo argument is that people around here make it sound like Winter and Mariner were smart for getting rid of him, and yet the facts show that they did want him to be a part of the team. Comments like yours that point to a "style" that wouldn't fit the current team seem to contradict the team itself saying that it wasn't his playing or the team's style that led to his departure rather it was money issues which have nothing to do with style or performance?

DeRo is gone, so be it. Having a great year and shooting down all naysayers who said that he can't play as a teamplayer (not that he had to shoot them down, he was doing it before he got to TFC anyways, people simply ignored that fact). But I can only roll my eyes at this rewriting of history that somehow our management was smart for getting rid of him and that it was somehow part of their plan to get rid of him when in fact the proof is that they did want him to be a part of the team, they did think his style would fit well and the only reason he didn't stay was that they simply couldn't come to a monetary agreement. That is the real reason he isn't here, so let's acknowledge the truth and stop making up facts.

Winter and Mariner gambled and lost. They thought DeRo wouldn't call their bluff and he did. And we had a worse year because of it. If fans are ok with that, by all means, we deserve the year we got. My problems with management on this DeRo issue is that they gambled with something that wasn't theirs. The trust of the fans. We deserved a better year than we got and their playing brinksmanship with our best player resulted in a poor year which has taken it's toll on this team and its fans and that falls squarely on management. Now I know that he "supporters" groups have expressed indifference at this horrible year we've had, but if there is anything I have learned in these 5 years it's that the "supporters" groups are not reflective of the general fanbase and the relationship with the fanbase has been damaged because the general fan isn't as generous as the "supporters" have been about yet another loathsome season, which is exactly what this management deserves.

That in a nutshell has been my problem with the DeRo issue this year. And the elephant in the room is that if DeRo was with TFC this season, we would be in the middle of a playoff hunt as we speak. So this talk about being happy about DeRo being gone regardless of how well he would have played for us is biting off your own nose to spite your face.

ensco
10-03-2011, 05:36 PM
^Roogsy, is it possible that all this posturing around the renegotiation was just theatre by all concerned?

WinterMariner, having probably heard nothing but bile around the cheque signing thing from Anselmi/Cochrane/JK, arrived to find a new Dero incident (the Celtic sideshow) dominating everything.

Wasn't the atmosphere by then just too poisoned for Winter and Mariner to keep him? (not saying Dero did everything to cause that, there was plenty of blame for everyone involved)

Roogsy
10-03-2011, 05:40 PM
There was blame everywhere to be had, including DeRo's part. I don't know if it was a relationship that could be salvaged, but the problem is nobody tried.

For all the talk about a fresh start and an honest discussion about how DeRo fit in, management decided to be less than forthright with both DeRo and the fans about the situation. And that has disillusioned me with this team because I thought it was going to be different once we got rid of Mo.

Shakes McQueen
10-03-2011, 05:56 PM
^Roogsy, is it possible that all this posturing around the renegotiation was just theatre by all concerned?

WinterMariner, having probably heard nothing but bile around the cheque signing thing from Anselmi/Cochrane/JK, arrived to find a new Dero incident (the Celtic sideshow) dominating everything.

Wasn't the atmosphere by then just too poisoned for Winter and Mariner to keep him? (not saying Dero did everything to cause that, there was plenty of blame for everyone involved)

I think this is probably closest to the truth. By the time Winter and Co. had taken over, the situation was already untenable. They took a while to see if the situation was resolvable in a manner that was amicable to them, and when it became clear that wasn't possible, they cut bait.

That Mariner cites the Tevez example, should speak volumes to how the new management interpreted what was going on with DeRo upon their arrival, correct or not.

I don't think it'll ever be completely clear what went on with DeRo, aside from the one-sided accounts we've gotten from both camps. I think it'll be interesting to see whether another team gives him DP status this winter, because lest we forget, the league itself also came out publicly against giving DeRo DP status at the time.

- Scott

Chevy
10-03-2011, 06:08 PM
It will be interesting to see if DC will give him their DP slot... and the league will approve it. His recent comments about "putting his foot down" suggest that he will insist on it.

LOL. Hasn't his "foot" been down for the last four or five years?

Give a guy DP money who is a pain in the a$$ and to top it off played for three teams in a single season - ALL of which have a good chance at missing the post season? Not a chance - in MLS or any other league.

$350k tops on a one (maybe two) year deal. Still good money if you can get it.

Pookie
10-03-2011, 06:42 PM
That in a nutshell has been my problem with the DeRo issue this year. And the elephant in the room is that if DeRo was with TFC this season, we would be in the middle of a playoff hunt as we speak. So this talk about being happy about DeRo being gone regardless of how well he would have played for us is biting off your own nose to spite your face.


Your crystal ball proclaims that we would be in the middle of a playoff hunt with him. A player whose only significant attribute is goal scoring, on a team with a league worst goals against, would have put us in the playoff hunt? Since when was DeRo lauded for his ability to track back and play defense?

Sir, I think your ball is broken.

As for your comments regarding bluffs and what not, the player was seeking a pay day and has played for 2 other teams without a single extra penny in his bank account and backed the league into a public corner in the process. If that is a winning strategy at a poker game, I'd love to have him over.

Roogsy
10-03-2011, 07:51 PM
Your crystal ball proclaims that we would be in the middle of a playoff hunt with him. A player whose only significant attribute is goal scoring, on a team with a league worst goals against, would have put us in the playoff hunt? Since when was DeRo lauded for his ability to track back and play defense?

Sir, I think your ball is broken.

As for your comments regarding bluffs and what not, the player was seeking a pay day and has played for 2 other teams without a single extra penny in his bank account and backed the league into a public corner in the process. If that is a winning strategy at a poker game, I'd love to have him over.


You have been the worst DeRo denier on this board. 13 goals and 10 assists (and dragging DC to the brink of a playoff spot) and the way you choose to portray his contributions is that it's his "only attribute"? LOL! What's the best stat of any TFC player? Care to tell us?

The funny thing is that every time you and your band of merry little DeRo haters deny him in some regard he has owned you outright. You say he doesn't pass? He leads in assists. You say he's too old and done scoring? He leads the league. You denied anyone would have interest in him and after he was traded it was revealed there were several suitors. And now DC's coach has come out and publicly stated he wants DeRo back and they're going to work something out. What if that means DP? What leg do you have to stand on then? Every other leg has been knocked out from under you. You are left to resort to some contrived false premise that somehow being traded for Dax McCarty is indicative of something wrong with DeRo.

He was, and continues to be a winner in MLS and Pookie can deny it all he wants but it seems everyone else disagrees. But Pookie just keeps repeating the same, lame denials over and over like somehow repeating them will make them true. If wishing things to happen were that easy, I'm sure you'd have a bigger penis as well.

Shakes McQueen
10-03-2011, 08:05 PM
In the words of the classical philosopher Terrell Owens, getcha popcorn ready!

- Scott

SoccMan
10-03-2011, 08:07 PM
You can hate on DeRo all you want, hey it's a free country everyone is entitlted to an opnion,however, the stats speak for themselves when it comes to DeRosario, in the MLS this guy is a winner just look at his stats and look at the championships he has won, and look at how many game winning goals he has had in MLS championship Cup Finals!

Roogsy
10-03-2011, 08:10 PM
In the words of the classical philosopher Terrell Owens, getcha popcorn ready!

- Scott

Nope. I've cut my participation on this board in general and I will not be dragged back in. That will end my comments in here. Carry on.

UPw-3e_pzqU

Shakes McQueen
10-03-2011, 08:11 PM
Nope. I've cut my participation on this board in general and I will not be dragged back in. That will end my comments in here. Carry on.

UPw-3e_pzqU

Way to go, Buzz Killington. :D

- Scott

AL-MO
10-03-2011, 08:13 PM
I just get a kick out of the "Well if we didn't trade DERO...." talk.

Fuck, he's gone. Deal with it!

(that is not directed at you Roogsy, just everyone who brings it up in a post game thread after they lose, or any other time it gets brought up on these boards)

Roogsy
10-03-2011, 08:16 PM
I just get a kick out of the "Well if we didn't trade DERO...." talk.

Fuck, he's gone. Deal with it!

(that is not directed at you Roogsy, just everyone who brings it up in a post game thread after they lose, or any other time it gets brought up on these boards)

I participated in that "What if..." discussion a lot for the first little while but after a while you realize it's done, there is no going back and we have to deal with the now. The now is that we are done in the league and hanging by a thread in CONCACAF so really, next year is where I will be looking.

But in this thread, where DeRo's accomplishments for this year are being highlighted, you'd be intentionally ignoring the stats if you didn't wonder where we'd be if DeRo were doing that for us instead.

In all the regular post-game threads, I think it has no place, I agree with you. There are no what-ifs in that discussion, just what-is.

Sorry Scott...just wanted to clarify my position for Alex.

Pookie
10-03-2011, 08:26 PM
Since Roogsy isn't responding any more I guess I can just make this a general statement.


you'd be intentionally ignoring the stats if you didn't wonder where we'd be if DeRo were doing that for us instead.

Well, with DeRo we didn't do anything so I for one have stopped wondering what he meant for the team performance.

But if we are to not ignore stats and this somehow increases the wonderment, the stats say that when we had DeRo we scored 33 goals in 2010. This year, we've scored 33 goals without him. The wonderment over life with or without DeRo stops being mystical doesn't it?

The reasonable argument might be that his "offense" has been replaced fairly effectively as a team.

But this isn't always a place for reason. So, going by logic of course, we'd have what... 66 goals with him this year? 33 we scored without him + the 33 he would have had with him in the line up. And there by jove is what gets us "in the playoff hunt".

Oh, oh, I get it now. He contributes to the team worst defense by netting us a +10 Goal Differential with these 66 goals.

It is all so clear now.

Pookie
10-03-2011, 08:31 PM
You can hate on DeRo all you want, hey it's a free country everyone is entitlted to an opnion,however, the stats speak for themselves when it comes to DeRosario, in the MLS this guy is a winner just look at his stats and look at the championships he has won, and look at how many game winning goals he has had in MLS championship Cup Finals!

Jeff Cunningham is a winner too. Playing for $150k per year in Columbus.

Pookie
10-03-2011, 08:43 PM
You have been the worst DeRo denier on this board.

I prefer to call myself a realist.

I don't get upset over a player that threatens to hold out or demands a trade.

But then again, there are some folks that sympathize with athletes like Alexei Yashin, Dany Heatley, Carmello Anthony, Randy Moss, etc.


If wishing things to happen were that easy, I'm sure you'd have a bigger penis as well.

^ is this what constitutes "stepping back from the keyboard?"

Nice.

Yohan
10-03-2011, 08:55 PM
I care that the DeRo strut made it as goal celebration in FIFA12. Most important!

ArmenJBX
10-03-2011, 09:03 PM
It was in FIFA 11 too :D

brad
10-03-2011, 09:27 PM
If we had DeRo plus the team we have now we would be better. Thing is in this league moving any player of note changes the composition. So it's entirely possible that if we would no be a better team today if we kept him. Pretty much impossible to say how we would look with him but there is no way you can just plug him into the lineup today.

Shakes McQueen
10-03-2011, 10:10 PM
If we had DeRo plus the team we have now we would be better. Thing is in this league moving any player of note changes the composition. So it's entirely possible that if we would no be a better team today if we kept him. Pretty much impossible to say how we would look with him but there is no way you can just plug him into the lineup today.

If we had DeRo in the lineup today, chances are we wouldn't be able to afford one or two of the players that were subsequently added to our lineup - such as at least one of our new DPs.

Based purely on skill, sure I think DeRo would probably make us a better team as an addition to everyone else we've got. But certainly not the thoroughly unhappy DeRo that was with us before he got traded.

- Scott

69Chevy396
10-03-2011, 10:26 PM
Rooted in my disappointment with the trade was that I felt betrayed by an organization and made the decision to renew despite my better judgment. Had Dero been moved before the renewal deadline a lot of people would have taken a second look at wasting money on yet another miserable year. MLSE is a tarnished brand, they have no bragging rights in this city, they simply know nothing about delivering on their promises. Good thing I am not interested in hockey or basketball anymore, because then I would be an emotional wreck. It is not about winning, it is about entertaining, and in professional sports, consistently losing is no way to entertain your average fan. Dero was, and is, one of the elite players in this league and if nothing else, brings a level of entertainment to the pitch that few others do. When they traded him after doing everything to keep him, mlse pulled another BS story out of the hat. Once the season tickets were sold they had a free hand, and look what they accomplished...it is not about making the playoffs, it is about winning in the playoffs, and this team is years away from that..koevermans and fringes will be sporting grey beards before that happens. I hope Dero takes DC to the finals and during his post game celebration tells Winter he is a jerk off.

Auzzy
10-03-2011, 10:30 PM
Round and round and round it goes, and where it stops, nobody knows.

Fort York Redcoat
10-04-2011, 06:04 AM
Rooted in my disappointment with the trade was that I felt betrayed by an organization and made the decision to renew despite my better judgment. Had Dero been moved before the renewal deadline a lot of people would have taken a second look at wasting money on yet another miserable year. MLSE is a tarnished brand, they have no bragging rights in this city, they simply know nothing about delivering on their promises. Good thing I am not interested in hockey or basketball anymore, because then I would be an emotional wreck. It is not about winning, it is about entertaining, and in professional sports, consistently losing is no way to entertain your average fan. Dero was, and is, one of the elite players in this league and if nothing else, brings a level of entertainment to the pitch that few others do. When they traded him after doing everything to keep him, mlse pulled another BS story out of the hat. Once the season tickets were sold they had a free hand, and look what they accomplished...it is not about making the playoffs, it is about winning in the playoffs, and this team is years away from that..koevermans and fringes will be sporting grey beards before that happens. I hope Dero takes DC to the finals and during his post game celebration tells Winter he is a jerk off.

Had DeRo been moved before renewal many people would not have renewed. That doesn't mean much since most of those people would be saying DeRo is a better quality than 2 DP's.

You say MLSE did everything they could to keep him but gave a BS story you hate them for.

What?

I hope if DC and DeRo win the final he doesn't tell Winter he's a jerk off. That would only give weight to those who think he's been unprofessional and I wouldn't want a member of my National team to look any worse in the eyes of the sport.

v00d00daddy
10-04-2011, 06:21 AM
I've stayed out of this thread for the most part and I certainy won't be participating on an extensive basis, but this post here confuses me.

If you think that keeping DeRo around was going to be a mistake, does it make sense to offer him a contract for more money? Ignoring the fact that he didn't take it, what if he would have? Would that have made Winter and Mariner smart or stupid for trying to keep him? The evidence points to DeRo asking for a trade once there was an impasse at the negotiation table, how can people then credit Winter for getting rid of a supposed bad apple?

The part that has always bothered me about the DeRo argument is that people around here make it sound like Winter and Mariner were smart for getting rid of him, and yet the facts show that they did want him to be a part of the team. Comments like yours that point to a "style" that wouldn't fit the current team seem to contradict the team itself saying that it wasn't his playing or the team's style that led to his departure rather it was money issues which have nothing to do with style or performance?

DeRo is gone, so be it. Having a great year and shooting down all naysayers who said that he can't play as a teamplayer (not that he had to shoot them down, he was doing it before he got to TFC anyways, people simply ignored that fact). But I can only roll my eyes at this rewriting of history that somehow our management was smart for getting rid of him and that it was somehow part of their plan to get rid of him when in fact the proof is that they did want him to be a part of the team, they did think his style would fit well and the only reason he didn't stay was that they simply couldn't come to a monetary agreement. That is the real reason he isn't here, so let's acknowledge the truth and stop making up facts.

Winter and Mariner gambled and lost. They thought DeRo wouldn't call their bluff and he did. And we had a worse year because of it. If fans are ok with that, by all means, we deserve the year we got. My problems with management on this DeRo issue is that they gambled with something that wasn't theirs. The trust of the fans. We deserved a better year than we got and their playing brinksmanship with our best player resulted in a poor year which has taken it's toll on this team and its fans and that falls squarely on management. Now I know that he "supporters" groups have expressed indifference at this horrible year we've had, but if there is anything I have learned in these 5 years it's that the "supporters" groups are not reflective of the general fanbase and the relationship with the fanbase has been damaged because the general fan isn't as generous as the "supporters" have been about yet another loathsome season, which is exactly what this management deserves.

That in a nutshell has been my problem with the DeRo issue this year. And the elephant in the room is that if DeRo was with TFC this season, we would be in the middle of a playoff hunt as we speak. So this talk about being happy about DeRo being gone regardless of how well he would have played for us is biting off your own nose to spite your face.

There is no confusion here.

Everything until the last two paragraphs was a summary of what Mariner said.

After that it's my opinion.

I know that the front office and coaches would have liked to keep him...but I disagree with them on that front. I'm glad he's gone. Not because he's a jerk but because I grew to hate his game.

That's why I'm in the camp of crystal ball seers that thinks we would not have been a better team with him. But that's just fairytale talk. Just like your statements about being in the thick of a playoff hunt were he still here. Nobody knows for sure.

What we do know is that the general manager at TFC sees the DeRo situation and has drawn comparisons to the Carlos Teves situation. Lol

Like Shakes says...that speaks volumes. (albeit it's only one side of the story)

So if you have a beef...take it up with Paul Mariner. Lol

torontocelt
10-04-2011, 06:37 AM
Since Roogsy isn't responding any more I guess I can just make this a general statement.



Well, with DeRo we didn't do anything so I for one have stopped wondering what he meant for the team performance.

But if we are to not ignore stats and this somehow increases the wonderment, the stats say that when we had DeRo we scored 33 goals in 2010. This year, we've scored 33 goals without him. The wonderment over life with or without DeRo stops being mystical doesn't it?

The reasonable argument might be that his "offense" has been replaced fairly effectively as a team.

But this isn't always a place for reason. So, going by logic of course, we'd have what... 66 goals with him this year? 33 we scored without him + the 33 he would have had with him in the line up. And there by jove is what gets us "in the playoff hunt".

Oh, oh, I get it now. He contributes to the team worst defense by netting us a +10 Goal Differential with these 66 goals.

It is all so clear now.

Frings and Koevermans have been here half a season and we are still third bottom or so and we are still getting the odd thrashing. Winter has been here since the start and we have only won 6 mls games all season, his performance has not taken us anywhere near the play offs, guess we should want rid of the lot of them then?

Oldtimer
10-04-2011, 07:37 AM
Frings and Koevermans have been here half a season and we are still third bottom or so and we are still getting the odd thrashing. Winter has been here since the start and we have only won 6 mls games all season

But would DeRo have changed that? Somehow I think not. He's a very skilled though individualistic player and he wasn't able to make things happen when the rest of the team was crap. He needs to play with good players who compliment his style, which is why his best achievements were in San Jose/Houston.

Now we have a partially rebuilt team, but the defense is still crap. I don't think TFC is going anywhere until the crap is out of the first team, I'm hopeful that will happen in the off-season. Mariner has a lot more smarts than the previous GM.

Pookie
10-04-2011, 08:08 AM
What we do know is that the general manager at TFC sees the DeRo situation and has drawn comparisons to the Carlos Teves situation. Lol


New chant perhaps? Perhaps this one can unite both the "Pro and Anti-player demands trade" camps?

The original goes:

"Who's that twat from Argentina?
Who's that money grabbing whore?
Carlos Tevez is his name, and he hasn't got a brain,
And he won't be winning trophies any more..."

http://fanchants.co.uk/football-songs/manchester_united-chants/tevez-chant/

"Who's that twat from Scarberia?
Who's that money grabbing whore?
De Rosario is his name, and he hasn't got a brain
but when it comes to trophies he may get some more..."

Fort York Redcoat
10-04-2011, 08:20 AM
^Too far. To sing that vs DC but cheer him this Saturday vs St. Lucia would be hypocritical even for me.

Let's just reuse all the DeRo chants for other players. Ya know, like moving on...

Oldtimer
10-04-2011, 08:24 AM
^^ over the top and inappropriate.

Anyway, Mariner made a point to say that Dwayne didn't have the character issues that Tevez does. The thing in common was the disrupted locker room.

With DeRo it was always a sense of what he felt is "fair" (obviously that's subjective), not just a "max the cash" attitude. It's based on principle, not greed.

What's an issue for every team he's played for since Houston has been the disruption his salary disputes have caused. That was a major factor in New York trading him away, and was part of the reason Houston traded him, as well.