Cold Hard Facts: TFC Results Before and After Frings / Koevermans Arrival

[Batman]

Because we're so far out of the playoffs, there continues to be a lot of griping amongst a bunch of us.
But, let's face it, our current coaching team and players has no responsibility for the messes that went on here before this year.

So let's have a look at this year and see what happened.

This hasn't been a great season in general, but I felt there was a major change when Frings and Koevermans arrived.

So, I thought I'd do a bit of an analysis of how we were doing this year both before, and after the arrivals of FRINGS AND KOEVERMANS.

I put this together to quantify our results and trends.
This does not include and CCL / Concacaf Games.. Its based purely on MLS League results.

So here you are:

Month W L T G P PPG

Mar__ 1 1 0 2 3 1.5
Apr__ 0 1 4 5 4 0.8
May _ 1 2 2 5 5 1
June_ 1 2 3 6 6 1
July _1 3 0 4 3 0.75
Total_ 4 9 9 22 21 0.954545

Frings and Koeverman Arrive

Month W L T G P PPG
July__ 1 1 1 3 4 1.333333
Aug__ 1 1 2 4 5 1.25
Sept__2 0 0 2 6 3
Total_ 4 2 3 9 15 1.666667

This chart shows that before Frings and Koevermans arrived we were earning .95 points per match.
Since their arrival we're earning 1.67 points per match... almost twice as good.

Now.. this is speculation, but if we continued at the 1.67 points per match pace for next season we'd end up with:
34*1.67 = 56 points

56 points would probably be good for FIRST place in the east (Houston currently has 42 with a few games left) or somewhere in the 3-5th place if there was a single table.

Thats the pace this team has been going since Frings and Koevermans arrived.
How cool is that!

[Dreadlocks]

I think it also has to do with some of the other additions too but Frings and Koevermans are a major reason for sure.

[flatpicker]

Start renewing those season tickets!
Gonna be a barn-burner next year!

[Batman]

I think it also has to do with some of the other additions too but Frings and Koevermans are a major reason for sure.

No doubt others had an affect.. but clearly these two guys have turned things around.

[Batman]

Start renewing those season tickets!
Gonna be a barn-burner next year!

haha.. well barn burner might be an overstatement.. but if next year we simply continued at post arrival rate of efficiency we'd easily make the playoffs.... and who knows..maybe even the top of the table

[[NBF]]

Batman: I'm going to trust you that all those numbers add up:D

Also, it would be interesting that since we've managed to be twice as good in points pre game, how are we doing and what are our numbers in points allowed since Koevermans and Frings were added to the lineup?

I bet they also went up slightly.:drinking:

[Keystone FC]

Winter will have to make some very smart choices in the off season, but I think he only needs to make a few choices to make this team a complete team that can make it to the playoffs.

[[NBF]]

Because we're so far out of the playoffs, there continues to be a lot of griping amongst a bunch of us.
But, let's face it, our current coaching team and players has no responsibility for the messes that went on here before this year.

So let's have a look at this year and see what happened.

This hasn't been a great season in general, but I felt there was a major change when Frings and Koevermans arrived.

So, I thought I'd do a bit of an analysis of how we were doing this year both before, and after the arrivals of FRINGS AND KOEVERMANS.

I put this together to quantify our results and trends.
This does not include and CCL / Concacaf Games.. Its based purely on MLS League results.

So here you are:

Month W L T G P PPG

Mar__ 1 1 0 2 3 1.5
Apr__ 0 1 4 5 4 0.8
May _ 1 2 2 5 5 1
June_ 1 2 3 6 6 1
July _1 3 0 4 3 0.75
Total_ 4 9 9 22 21 0.954545

Frings and Koeverman Arrive

Month W L T G P PPG
July__ 1 1 1 3 4 1.333333
Aug__ 1 1 2 4 5 1.25
Sept__2 0 0 2 6 3
Total_ 4 2 3 9 15 1.666667

This chart shows that before Frings and Koevermans arrived we were earning .95 points per match.
Since their arrival we're earning 1.67 points per match... almost twice as good.

Now.. this is speculation, but if we continued at the 1.67 points per match pace for next season we'd end up with:
34*1.67 = 56 points

56 points would probably be good for FIRST place in the east (Houston currently has 42 with a few games left) or somewhere in the 3-5th place if there was a single table.

Thats the pace this team has been going since Frings and Koevermans arrived.
How cool is that!

I did a bit of research also and found that your numbers dont add up Batman. Tsk Tsk.

Lets clean up your mess:

Table A-Without Frings & Koevermans: (W-3,L-10,T-9)

March(W-1,L-1,T-0) => 2 games, 3 points, 1.50 Pts/Game
April(W-0,L-2,T-4) => 6 games, 4 points, 0.66 Pts/Game
May(W-1,L-2,T-2) => 5 games, 5 points, 1.00 Pts/Game
June(W-1,L-2,T-3) => 6 games, 6 points, 1.00 Pts/Game
July(W-0,L-3,T-0) => 3 games, 0 points, 0.00 Pts/Game

Total: 22 Games, 18 Points, 0.81 Pts/Game

Table B- With The 2 DP's: (W-3,L-3,T-3)

July(W-0,L-1,T-1) => 2 games, 1 points, 0.50 Pts/Game
August(W-1,L-1,T-2) => 4 games, 5 points, 1.25 Pts/Game
September(W-2,L-1,T-0) => 3 games, 6 points, 2.00 Pts/Game

Total: 9 Games, 12 Points, 1.33 Pts/Game

This chart shows that before Frings and Koevermans arrived we were earning 0.81 points per match.

Since their arrival we're earning 1.33 points per match... almost half a point per game improvement.

Now.. this is speculation, but if we continued at the 1.33 points per match pace for next season we'd end up with:
34*1.33 = 45.22 points

Which I think is good enough to finish 5th-7th which is still an improvement. Next time though lets try and come up with a better way to try to get peoples hopes up.:picard:

[Mikey]

LOL.... that is all.

[Batman]

;1383135']I did a bit of research also and found that your numbers dont add up Batman. Tsk Tsk.

Lets clean up your mess:

Table A-Without Frings & Koevermans: (W-3,L-10,T-9)

March(W-1,L-1,T-0) => 2 games, 3 points, 1.50 Pts/Game
April(W-0,L-2,T-4) => 6 games, 4 points, 0.66 Pts/Game
May(W-1,L-2,T-2) => 5 games, 5 points, 1.00 Pts/Game
June(W-1,L-2,T-3) => 6 games, 6 points, 1.00 Pts/Game
July(W-0,L-3,T-0) => 3 games, 0 points, 0.00 Pts/Game

Total: 22 Games, 18 Points, 0.81 Pts/Game

Table B- With The 2 DP's: (W-3,L-3,T-3)

July(W-0,L-1,T-1) => 2 games, 1 points, 0.50 Pts/Game
August(W-1,L-1,T-2) => 4 games, 5 points, 1.25 Pts/Game
September(W-2,L-1,T-0) => 3 games, 6 points, 2.00 Pts/Game

Total: 9 Games, 12 Points, 1.33 Pts/Game

This chart shows that before Frings and Koevermans arrived we were earning 0.81 points per match.

Since their arrival we're earning 1.33 points per match... almost half a point per game improvement.

Now.. this is speculation, but if we continued at the 1.33 points per match pace for next season we'd end up with:
34*1.33 = 45.22 points

Which I think is good enough to finish 5th-7th which is still an improvement. Next time though lets try and come up with a better way to try to get peoples hopes up.:picard:



First off... I wrote this post BEFORE last nights game, so for you to throw in the results of last night into the spreadsheet as you claim MY misrepresentation is kind of ironic and misleading, don't you think?

However, I see the error in my spreadsheet (my MESS as you so kindly put it) : in the first half of the season I listed 5 games played in April rather than 6. Although I had the number of points right. So, corrected, this now shows the team was even WORSE that I had shown.

And in the 2nd half, I accidentally included the Real Esteli Game in July which increased my victory total by 1.

So I made 2 mistakes.

But do you really have to be such a dick about it.

Shannanigans? Jeezuz!

I was trying to offer some value to this board.

How about.. hey batman .. you missed a game in the first half and now could you add in tonights game. That would have been a fair, honourable and adult way to approach this.

But anyway I guess the way you handled it made you feel good about yourself.

I dont mind being corrected... but being mocked pisses me off! These are the kind of things that makes one wonder why it's worth the effort?

Anyway the facts are these...


PRE LAST NIGHTS GAME
Pre Frings / Koev... .85 pts per game
Post Frings / Koev ..1.5 pts per game (8 games 12 pts)

Is that shannaniigans?

POST LAST NIGHTS GAME.. your updated figures are correct and they are running at 1.33 (9 games 12 pts)

The point is we're doing a hell of a lot better than before

[4evared]

Nice try Batman.
Your OP I am sure was to try to put a positive look on the state of the current team, which has improved. The correction that took place after is indicative of the fu&$ing mess that these boards have morphed in to, which makes for very difficult reading.
If this backstabbing continues we might as well just shut shop now and all move on.

[Batman]

Nice try Batman.
Your OP I am sure was to try to put a positive look on the state of the current team, which has improved. The correction that took place after is indicative of the fu&$ing mess that these boards have morphed in to, which makes for very difficult reading.
If this backstabbing continues we might as well just shut shop now and all move on.

Thanks... I think. LOL

[ensco]

Playing better because you have spent $2.5 million on a couple of players is a testament to nothing but the power of money, really.

[TorontoGooner]

Batman, this is why some Torontonians have the reputation they do with the rest of the country! I wouldn't worry about it.

Nice work brother, your optimism is what we need. Any more pessimism and I'm off to NEE ;)

[Batman]

Playing better because you have spent $2.5 million on a couple of players is a testament to nothing but the power of money, really.



So what the heck is wrong with that? Isn't that what everyone wants? MLSE to open up the coffers and get better results?

What's your point?

[TFC07]

I think with stronger backline and depending improvements of other teams with big signings like New York, we can fight for first place in the East next season easily. Eastern Conference is wide open. Anyone can take it.

Downside for us is number games with Canadian Championship and CCL games which will hurt our standings in the east though.

[Cashcleaner]

Thanks to you Batman, there is a high school math teacher crying softly in a corner. FOR SHAME!

But yeah, I don't this should come as too big a shock to people. The club was floundering and needed an experienced striker and defensive midfielder to shore things up and that's exactly what we got. Danny and Torsten are doing exactly what we're paying them to do - scoring goals and/or supporting the others on the pitch on a level higher than before. Winter and the club should be applauded for doing the right thing and bringing them in.

[nfitz]

So looking at the raw numbers ... our highest rate was for games DeRo played this season? 1.5 points a game ... that would've give us 51 points for the season?

On the one hand, this is very lying with statistics. On the other hand, we did dispose of the 2011 Golden Boot leader.

Maybe we shouldn't worry the raw statistics ...

[Batman]

Hey Cash.. Other than the fact that my high school teacher has an excuse...there were no spreadsheets when I was in high school ... LOL

[Batman]

So looking at the raw numbers ... our highest rate was for games DeRo played this season? 1.5 points a game ... that would've give us 51 points for the season?

On the one hand, this is very lying with statistics. On the other hand, we did dispose of the 2011 Golden Boot leader.

Maybe we shouldn't worry the raw statistics ...

Not true. We did better in September than March.

"Very Lying with statistics?" Holy crap! All it is, is facts, just one's I guess you don't want to believe.

Oh ya.. and lets have another DeRo debate. That's progress.

[ensco]

So what the heck is wrong with that? Isn't that what everyone wants? MLSE to open up the coffers and get better results?

What's your point?

OK since you ask....

We've shot our bolt. What happens next year if/when Koevermans gets hurt next year? Frings will be 35.

What on earth was a last place team, already out of the playoffs, doing buying guys as old as Frings and Koevermans? For those who think this was in search of 2011 Concacaf success, you are entitled to your opinion, I don't see it as a primary driver, getting deep into CCL was and is a long shot, and not that rewarding at this stage of the franchise.

These signings made no on field sense.

These signings were only about the renewal problem. They knew in June that they were going to desperately need something to say in September.

I don't feel like celebrating MLSE spending its resources only as a last resort in the defence of the ticket pricing strategy.

For those who see it differently, it's a free country. To each his own.

[Cashcleaner]

C'mon, ensco. If nothing was done this season to at least attempt to address the talent gap we've found ourselves in, the outrage would be deafening and we'd have a MUCH quieter BMO Field on gameday. I don't think the Koevermans/Frings deal is the best we could have gotten, but it was necessary at the time and I think we are better for it. Trust me, I made similar arguments as you when their names were first announced, but I can't deny that we are a better team because of them.

Sometimes, you need to look past the motives and just take the positives as they come. As for next season, we don't know what sort of new players will be brought in, so the relative impact of both Frings and Koevermans on the team is moot.

[nfitz]

Not true. We did better in September than March. You were looking at periods of players. Not months. You can point out that we did in September than March without prefacing it with the disingenuous statement "Not true".


All it is, is facts, just one's I guess you don't want to believe.Statistics aren't facts. And who said I don't believe anything?


Oh ya.. and lets have another DeRo debate. That's progress.Debate? I was simply pointing out an interesting "fact" that jumps out in the raw numbers.

There's an awful lot of prejudice in your statements. Why are you trying to sell something so hard? And why are you jumping so quickly on someone who doesn't disagree with you?

[Batman]

You were looking at periods of players. Not months. You can point out that we did in September than March without prefacing it with the disingenuous statement "Not true".

Statistics aren't facts. And who said I don't believe anything?

Debate? I was simply pointing out an interesting "fact" that jumps out in the raw numbers.

There's an awful lot of prejudice in your statements. Why are you trying to sell something so hard? And why are you jumping so quickly on someone who doesn't disagree with you?

My statements were simply before these guys arrived we got this many points per game. After they arrived we almost doubled the number,

I was presenting an the entire season of statistics, and it appeared I was being accused of LYING with Statistics.

Then you presented an entire 2 games worth of stats.. March.. and somehow we're supposed to extrapolate much more from that.

It's as simple as, on the season splits 1.67 or 1.5 pts per game is better that .95

And yes you are correct in pointing out that we got 1.5 pts per game in March. We really fell into a funk POST DeRo and Pre Koeverms / Frings.

Who knows... maybe had DeRo stayed we would have done that all year.

But I'm not going to go down that path and debate all day.

As a whole, we did much better after these guys arrived than we did before.

I'm out.

[ensco]

C'mon, ensco. If nothing was done this season to at least attempt to address the talent gap we've found ourselves in, the outrage would be deafening and we'd have a MUCH quieter BMO Field on gameday. I don't think the Koevermans/Frings deal is the best we could have gotten, but it was necessary at the time and I think we are better for it. Trust me, I made similar arguments as you when their names were first announced, but I can't deny that we are a better team because of them.

Sometimes, you need to look past the motives and just take the positives as they come. As for next season, we don't know what sort of new players will be brought in, so the relative impact of both Frings and Koevermans on the team is moot.

Being a little better is not the right standard. Choosing to do something means you are choosing not to do something else.

As to "looking past motives", I don't see how we can do that. It runs through absolutely everything our FO does.

[flatpicker]

C'mon, ensco. If nothing was done this season to at least attempt to address the talent gap we've found ourselves in, the outrage would be deafening and we'd have a MUCH quieter BMO Field on gameday. I don't think the Koevermans/Frings deal is the best we could have gotten, but it was necessary at the time and I think we are better for it. Trust me, I made similar arguments as you when their names were first announced, but I can't deny that we are a better team because of them.

Sometimes, you need to look past the motives and just take the positives as they come. As for next season, we don't know what sort of new players will be brought in, so the relative impact of both Frings and Koevermans on the team is moot.

I think we got one of the better pair of players that were realistically available to us.

Sure, we could have offered multi-million dollar deals to some of the best players out there, but that's not realistic.

Your statement makes it sound like this was a rushed decision by Winter,
Like they were his "Plan C" transaction, after the others fell through.

Koevs and Frings are a fantastic addition to this team.
I am so happy they are here.
Now the team just needs to get them a little help out there.


(btw... don't let my statement get confused as being hostile! ;) )

[Couchy81]

Yea it wasn't a rush deal to get Koevs anyways, Winter/Mariner had been looking to sign him since January.

[Cashcleaner]

I think we got one of the better pair of players that were realistically available to us.

Sure, we could have offered multi-million dollar deals to some of the best players out there, but that's not realistic.

Your statement makes it sound like this was a rushed decision by Winter,
Like they were his "Plan C" transaction, after the others fell through.

Koevs and Frings are a fantastic addition to this team.
I am so happy they are here.
Now the team just needs to get them a little help out there.


(btw... don't let my statement get confused as being hostile! ;) )

Oh, I don't think the Frings and Koevermans deal was rushed at all. I think they were in Winter's sights for a while and things more or less worked out as he wanted.

[Beach_Red]

Being a little better is not the right standard. Choosing to do something means you are choosing not to do something else.

As to "looking past motives", I don't see how we can do that. It runs through absolutely everything our FO does.

And weren't these signings part of the Soccer Solutions/Klinsmann deal? Have you included that contract in your $2.5 million?

The best face to put on this is that these expenditures were a short-term stop-gas until the longer-term academy and "culture" investments pay off.

Sort if what an expansion team that didn't sell out its stadium would have done in year one.

[ManUtd4ever]

I think TFC made two of the most astute DP signings in the league this season. Yes, TFC management has shot it's bolt in that regard, and they identified two players who have already made a tremendous impact.

I don't give a rat's ass if the roster overhaul was motivated by season's ticket renewals or not. The bottom line is, drastic change was necessary, and management responded by utilizing the financial resources afforded by MLSE. Once management addresses the shortcomings of the central defence in the off season, TFC will be a vastly improved squad next year.

I find it somewhat peculiar that some people were bitching and complaining about a slow rebuilding process earlier in the season, because they wanted to win now. So now that management has augmented their rebuilding strategy by trying to deliver a winning product in the short term as well as the long term, it's nothing but a hollow gesture or marketing ploy?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess...:noidea:

[ensco]

I find it somewhat peculiar that some people were bitching and complaining about a slow rebuilding process earlier in the season, and that they wanted to win now. So now that management has augmented their rebuilding strategy by trying to deliver a winning product in the short term as well as the long term, it's nothing but a hollow gesture or marketing ploy?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess...:noidea:

That's a mischaracterization of what I'm saying or said.

There was no reason to throw 2011 away imho but that's a different topic. That argument, which has many opponents and has been done to death, really has nothing to do with the merits of the Frings/Koevermans signings.

The 2011 season was already flushed by the time they were signed.

[jloome]

First off... I wrote this post BEFORE last nights game, so for you to throw in the results of last night into the spreadsheet as you claim MY misrepresentation is kind of ironic and misleading, don't you think?

However, I see the error in my spreadsheet (my MESS as you so kindly put it) : in the first half of the season I listed 5 games played in April rather than 6. Although I had the number of points right. So, corrected, this now shows the team was even WORSE that I had shown.

And in the 2nd half, I accidentally included the Real Esteli Game in July which increased my victory total by 1.

So I made 2 mistakes.

But do you really have to be such a dick about it.

Shannanigans? Jeezuz!

I was trying to offer some value to this board.

How about.. hey batman .. you missed a game in the first half and now could you add in tonights game. That would have been a fair, honourable and adult way to approach this.

But anyway I guess the way you handled it made you feel good about yourself.

I dont mind being corrected... but being mocked pisses me off! These are the kind of things that makes one wonder why it's worth the effort?

Anyway the facts are these...


PRE LAST NIGHTS GAME
Pre Frings / Koev... .85 pts per game
Post Frings / Koev ..1.5 pts per game (8 games 12 pts)

Is that shannaniigans?

POST LAST NIGHTS GAME.. your updated figures are correct and they are running at 1.33 (9 games 12 pts)

The point is we're doing a hell of a lot better than before

Your effort is much appreciated dude. My advice after five years on here would be to take cues from episodes that piss you off and figure out who should be on your ignore list. In certain cases, it's fairly obvious.

[habstfc]

There is NO debating the fact that we are much better now than we were before Frings and Koeverman's arrival. Along with guys like johnnson and Avila. We will make the playoffs next year.

[Beach_Red]

That's a mischaracterization of what I'm saying or said.

There was no reason to throw 2011 away imho but that's a different topic. That argument, which has many opponents and has been done to death, really has nothing to do with the merits of the Frings/Koevermans signings.

The 2011 season was already flushed by the time they were signed.

When do you think the negotiations started? Do you think one of them is the "big name" Mariner said was about to sign at the beginning of the season? Is it possible that a plan was put into place in the offseason and it didn't work out (players they brought in didn't make the impact they expected) but they stuck to it anyway?

Or was this just more scrambling like the first four seasons?

[Canary10]

Frings was the best signing we've ever made. We've never had a leader on the pitch in our 5 years.

[nfitz]

I was presenting an the entire season of statistics, and it appeared I was being accused of LYING with Statistics.Your completely and totally paranoid. I was trying to point out that I was lying with statistics ... the reference to the lying was was clearly about the DeRo stat which I came up with ...

[Batman]

Your completely and totally paranoid. I was trying to point out that I was lying with statistics ... the reference to the lying was was clearly about the DeRo stat which I came up with ...

Hey...maybe I just misunderstood you... I was still probably pissed off due to an earlier post from someone else. But when you referred to the March stats and the fact we traded the potential golden boot winner and something about "very lying with statistics" which appeared a bit odd, I thought you were alluding to the stats I presented were BS and were trying to get into the DeRo debate.

Now that you mention it that way I completely understand. I don't think we were a better team in March than we were in the rest of the year, although we definitely took a hit between DeRo exit and the arrival of the 2 DPs.

Being I misunderstood, I really am sorry.:blush:

[J .]

How about the team for once in its five year history start getting results instead of taking these teeny samples and going viola 'shit is all good'.

Like come on man. The team has put out the same results every five years.

Great DP signings, I'll 100% agree. But the team still isnt playing well. Still too many blow outs and lack of character outings. This is the best lineup we have fielded since day one, but it still doesnt work. Why? Definitely not the tactics and coaching, what other team has a worst GD than us in the league?

Maybe its my negative outlook on this season (and the previous four I was in the hopeful camp). So where can I buy these Rose coloured glasses?

Ill be positive when the results are positive and Ill do so with endless gusto. The fact we have one 3 of our six wins in the past 5-6 games is not out of league with shitty teams going on runs at the end of the season... TML anyone? Its an across the board sports phenomenon, not indicative of an improving team.

[Batman]

J.,

I would have thought 15 games was more than a "teeny sample". It's almost half a season. LOL

But I guess I'm learning people are going to read whatever they are predisposed to read into anything that's presented.

I cant do anything about that. BTW, nor can Aaron Winter do anything about the first 4 seasons, that makes people so jaded.

I'm a member of RPB. In case you don't know, it's a supporters group not just an internet chat site.

Heaven forbid I choose to present some facts, and look at some positives for a change, and actually support.

I'm not some blind cheerleader either. I'm not blind to the fact that the first 4.5 years sucked.

I'm also not blind the the fact that the last .5 year has been pretty good, and if we performed at that level next year, we'd be doing pretty well.

So believe what you want.. it's a free world. I just think the last half season has been pretty good but we buried ourselves too deep a hole in the first half.

[MartinUtd]

Cool analysis. I'm glad somebody put the numbers out there because I found myself asking the same question last week.

Not sure what all the bickering is about... maybe people are bitchy after the 3-0 loss.

[[NBF]]

Hey Batman, sorry you feel like I stepped on your dick, but tensions are high after yet another defeat. If you noticed hardly anyone posted anything in the post game thread the same night of the game. People were pissed.

I understand what you were trying to do with this thread, but I think the leadership and skill were not evident at last night's game. We all know the signings of Frings and Koevermans were the best signings of the year for our team, but the real statistics we should be looking at are the goals scored minus the goals allowed, because the fact is we are glorifying the two wins in one month that was achieved for the first time this season and that doesnt mean we are going to the playoffs next season.

:D

This season is this season, next season unless we add a top centre back, we will be begging yet again for another purge of the team. The MLS is improving from year to year and the other 19 teams are preparing for adding 1 or 2 DP signings.

[Batman]

;1383241']Hey Batman, sorry you feel like I stepped on your dick, but tensions are high after yet another defeat. If you noticed hardly anyone posted anything in the post game thread the same night of the game. People were pissed.

I understand what you were trying to do with this thread, but I think the leadership and skill were not evident at last night's game. We all know the signings of Frings and Koevermans were the best signings of the year for our team, but the real statistics we should be looking at are the goals scored minus the goals allowed, because the fact is we are glorifying the two wins in one month that was achieved for the first time this season and that doesnt mean we are going to the playoffs next season.

:D

This season is this season, next season unless we add a top centre back, we will be begging yet again for another purge of the team. The MLS is improving from year to year and the other 19 teams are preparing for adding 1 or 2 DP signings.


I agree that we can't sit on our laurels.. Hell, we don't have any laurels.

We need 3-4 more players including the elusive centre back.

Peace.

[flatpicker]

;1383241']
This season is this season, next season unless we add a top centre back, we will be begging yet again for another purge of the team. The MLS is improving from year to year and the other 19 teams are preparing for adding 1 or 2 DP signings.

The good news is, we only have to wait 6 more months to see how this team stacks up against the rest of MLS 2012.

I'm gonna take a nap... I'm setting my alarm for March.
;)

[reggie]

bottom line is that we are brutal on D.
i think we need a min of 6 new starters next season,let the rebuild start again.

[ensco]

When do you think the negotiations started? Do you think one of them is the "big name" Mariner said was about to sign at the beginning of the season? Is it possible that a plan was put into place in the offseason and it didn't work out (players they brought in didn't make the impact they expected) but they stuck to it anyway?

Or was this just more scrambling like the first four seasons?

No big opinion. If I was to guess, Koevermans was probably someone that had been identified early on (he played with Winter), whereas Frings may have fallen into their lap. Not sure it matters much though, I assume they had a bunch of plans they were working on at various points.

What bothers me is that they decided to tie up the 2012 and 2013 DP slots in stopgap older players likely to have injury and declining performance problems, for what I believe to be mostly off-field reasons. I like Koevermans but see him as a Dichio. The original Danny cost us $150K per year, so I don't really get why Koevermans makes 10x that and consumes a DP slot. I am even more concerned about Frings, for all his skill on the ball he is very slow, I think he will have inevitable problems as this league continues to get better and faster around us.

[denime]

Holy fuck,some of you people really should check if you support TFC before you log in on this board.

Betman goes extra mile on his own time on a Sundayfucking morning and what he get as reword is being hammered for good intention to show move in right direction.

God forbid to expect from TFC supporter to support TFC on this board,if you want to like and support your own team on RPB site except to get called out for that.

As far I'm concern if you don't like what you see on this board stay the F... away,or even better go find other club to support,because anything positive about TFC is not sitting right with some of you.

Have a nice day ! :rant:

[ensco]

^If you're going to put this kind of post up, I really think you need to name names. Who exactly are you talking about?

[flatpicker]

Perhaps some people should continue their discussions through pm's.
Otherwise this thread will be completely derailed, if it isn't already.

I enjoy sharing my opinion, and I like others to do the same, even it doesn't gel with mine.
But let's all do it in a calm and respectful manner.

[Shep]

^If you're going to put this kind of post up, I really think you need to name names. Who exactly are you talking about?

Nah I don't think needs to put any names up. If someone reading it feels it applies to them, maybe it does.

[denime]

Nah I don't think needs to put any names up. If someone reading it feels it applies to them, maybe it does.

What he said.

[Furtado91]

As someone who has just recently got into mls, I must say batman's Run down of the season was an interesting read.it looks like i joined on during a time of change both for the team and even possibly the Red Patch boys. Its been an interesting season with the potential for an even more interesting ending. I can only hope Toronto does some sort of last minute push to try and gain more success in some form or another.

thanks batman for that interesting rundown.:cheers:

[Waggy]

Holy fuck,some of you people really should check if you support TFC before you log in on this board.

Betman goes extra mile on his own time on a Sundayfucking morning and what he get as reword is being hammered for good intention to show move in right direction.

God forbid to expect from TFC supporter to support TFC on this board,if you want to like and support your own team on RPB site except to get called out for that.

As far I'm concern if you don't like what you see on this board stay the F... away,or even better go find other club to support,because anything positive about TFC is not sitting right with some of you.

Have a nice day ! :rant:

Quoted for truth. Well said Denime. Don't see why people can't seem to criticize while supporting, they have to do either 1 or the other. The team sucked, but it's getting better. We went from the worst team in MLS (or at least in the convo with Van) to a mediocre MLS team in 2 months. Progress is progress. We shat the bed yest, but we beat the MLS cup winner and the top team in the conference the week before. Don't get manic about it, enjoy the wins, hope the team improves from the loses and regroup for the winter transfer period. This entire board needs a valium.

[ensco]

Denime I really don't know what to say to you. It's pretty sad. You are a mod. Respectful criticism should be allowed.

Oh by the way, re that "extra mile doing analysis on a Sunday morning doing analysis" stuff, the numbers are still wrong. We're 3-4-3 since Frings/Koevermans came in. 1.2 points/game. We'd be out of the playoffs at that rate over a full season.

See you all later.

[moralis]

Come on Guys, let's focus our energy on supporting our boys against Pumas on Tuesday. They will be tired coming back from a long trip. There will be some Pumas fans at the game and we need to sing and chant our aces off. This could be our last competitive game for a long time. No Playoffs. Only Champions League. By the wet and stormy weather predicted, this will be one to remember. I will do my very best, to "LOSE MY VOICE" (saying from from Polish Dave). I hope all of you guys do the same.

Remember TFC TIL'DIE

[Waggy]

Denime I really don't know what to say to you. It's pretty sad. You are a mod. Respectful criticism should be allowed.

Oh by the way, re that "extra mile doing analysis on a Sunday morning doing analysis" stuff, the numbers are still wrong. We're 3-4-3 since Frings/Koevermans came in. 1.2 points/game. We'd be out of the playoffs at that rate over a full season.

See you all later.


3-4-3? Working backwards

Lost to Chivas 3-0
Beat Tauro 1-0
Beat Colorado 2-1
Lost to Pumas 4-0
Beat Columbus 4-2
Drew San Jose 1-1
Lost to Dallas 1-0
Lost to Chi 2-0
Beat Tauro 2-1
Beat Salt Lake 1-0
Drew DC 3-3
Beat Real Esteli 2-1
Drew Portland 2-2
Beat Real Esteli 2-1
Lost to KC 4-2
Lost to Dallas 1-0

Thats a record of 7-6-3 since the DPs came in.
24 points divided by 16 games is 1.5 ppg. (before my math gets assaulted thats 7 wins x 3 points, plus 3 draws at 1 point each, divided by 16 games played). If you take out the first 4 games the team played with Koevs/Frings (call it training camp for them), and we're 6-4-2 in the last 12 games, which works out to 1.6666 points per game. I'd say that's a marked improvement from where we were (has TFC ever had a better than 1.1 or 1.2 ppg?).

And the other question on everyones mind, goal differencial (our season goal differencial is TERRIBLE): since the DPs , 27 goals against to 22 goals for. Or -5 goals. If we again remove the first 4 "training camp" games, the number changes to 16 goals for and 19 against, or -3. And that's not bad considering the shitty effort yest and in Mexico (-7 just in those 2 games). The sky is not falling, simmer down now. If my math is off lemme know

[Ricky_Portugal]

Holy fuck,some of you people really should check if you support TFC before you log in on this board.

Betman goes extra mile on his own time on a Sundayfucking morning and what he get as reword is being hammered for good intention to show move in right direction.

God forbid to expect from TFC supporter to support TFC on this board,if you want to like and support your own team on RPB site except to get called out for that.

As far I'm concern if you don't like what you see on this board stay the F... away,or even better go find other club to support,because anything positive about TFC is not sitting right with some of you.

Have a nice day ! :rant:


Quoted for truth. Well said Denime. Don't see why people can't seem to criticize while supporting, they have to do either 1 or the other. The team sucked, but it's getting better. We went from the worst team in MLS (or at least in the convo with Van) to a mediocre MLS team in 2 months. Progress is progress. We shat the bed yest, but we beat the MLS cup winner and the top team in the conference the week before. Don't get manic about it, enjoy the wins, hope the team improves from the loses and regroup for the winter transfer period. This entire board needs a valium.

Totttaly agree there's way too much animosity on theses boards this season and people have stoped understanding as what we as a group are suposed to be we have to have the hope and believe we are getting better as a leaf fan I know the pain of watching season in season out no playoff spot but I don't lose hope or stop beliving cause as a suportter of each team I know it has to get better championship teams aren't built over night or in even over 5 seasons as the leafs have proven

[Batman]

I would love to go back and see if there was another error in the spreadsheet.. but really, it doesnt matter. This is kind of like the DeRo stuff.. some people are on one side and some are on the other.

In this case, it seems like anyone who shows some optimism is a cheerleader..heaven forbid someone would do that in a supporters group. I'm not taking any more time on it... and if there was an error... so be it and sorry... and if the stuff was correct.. again so be it.

Let's close this thread, and Let's move on and do our best to support this club.