Pre Game-TFC @ Chivas,Sep.24

[denime]

Toronto FC @ Chivas USA Saturday, September 24th @ 10:30 p.m. ET on GOLTV

What is going to be,a rest players game or get another win game?

[Klinsmann]

^ Both?

[ArmenJBX]

Kocic; Viator, Harden, Iro, Borman; Frings, Dunfield, Avila; Marosevic, Johnson, Yourassowsky

[TorontoPat]

Rest, it`s not a home game.

[BuSaPuNk]

Both. I say until were completely dead in the league might as well keep the momentum going.

Anyone watching the game at Joe's or somewhere else saturday? I know UFC has a PPV that night so it might be tough finding a place.

[trane]

Rest. Not doing so would be a grave mistake.

[rocker]

since the playoffs are basically over, I'd rest guys too. They can play Avila, since he can't play against Pumas anyways. Use it as a last chance for certain players to prove they should stick around (uhhh.. Martina...?). Johnson definitely needs a rest.

we're gonna need fresh legs against Pumas.

[ManUtd4ever]

Play the scrubs.

[Darlofletch]

let's go for 40 for the season, let omphroy, griffit, davies and anyone else who hasn't played in mls so far get a game.

seriously, with it involving a trip to LA, b team it up, let people like martina, sturgis, yourassowsky and so on show their worth, anyone with even the slightest nagging injury, or anyone who just needs a rest, let them stay home.

I don't think this will happen though.

[Yohan]

I have a feeling that Winter wants the team to continue to try to win as much as possible to build the winning mentality.

Because any loss does take its effect on team morale. Momentum counts, esp going against a good team like Pumas. Harder to get motivated to try to win a big game after a loss.

[Empirical]

we win our next 4 we have a 10% chance on making the playoffs. would be one of the most glorious comebacks in sports history? you want to be the guy who said play the scrubs before it?

[PopePouri]

we win our next 4 we have a 10% chance on making the playoffs. would be one of the most glorious comebacks in sports history? you want to be the guy who said play the scrubs before it?

+1. Play until it's mathematically impossible. Tonight, none of the teams went out to take charge and play for that last playoff spot. New York lost and both DC and Portland drew.

Keeps the hopes alive.

[CSO_BBTB]

The players had a long rest earlier this month to recharge their batteries. Play most of the regular starters and aim to get the win.

[SirBobSaget]

Travelling to California and back is exhausting, even if you don't play.

Let the key guys stay behind and get in 3 extra training sessions to work out the game plan vs Pumas.

[ag futbol]

CL in many ways is also improbable, although in pure odds we have a better shot than in the league.

Play in a way that helps us down the road (which is not simply next game). That's all I ask for.

[ManUtd4ever]

we win our next 4 we have a 10% chance on making the playoffs. would be one of the most glorious comebacks in sports history? you want to be the guy who said play the scrubs before it?


+1. Play until it's mathematically impossible. Tonight, none of the teams went out to take charge and play for that last playoff spot. New York lost and both DC and Portland drew.

Keeps the hopes alive.

I would love nothing more than for TFC to make an improbable late season charge towards a playoff spot. However, it's practically impossible at this point if you consider the number of teams that TFC would have to leapfrog in the standings, and the fact that some of those clubs have 2-3 games in hand. Simply put, it's not going to happen.

Conversely, TFC is in a far more enviable position in Group C of the CCL, being only one point out of contention, and on par with Dallas and Pumas in terms of games played.

The next MLS match against Chivas is essentially meaningless, with nothing more than pride at stake, while the next CCL match against Pumas should be treated as the most significant match in franchise history.

[Roogsy]

^ I agree with Mr 4ever...

[ginkster88]

Seriously some of you guys are like the Leaf fans who don't realize that losing 17 games before Christmas means no playoffs that season.

[__wowza]

let's look at the facts for a second:

- we're six teams back from a playoff spot
- 5 of those teams have (at least) a game in hand
- the average game in hand for each team is 2
- we have the worst goal differential in the league
- because of this we'd have to clear the last place team by a point
- to reach the magic 40 points we'd have to win each game
- winning each game provides us with 41 points
- that doesn't account for the games in hand of the 6 teams, that're all ahead of us now, that we currently need to leapfrog to get into the playoffs


aside from that, what manu said.

[Gazza]

I would love nothing more than for TFC to make an improbable late season charge towards a playoff spot. However, it's practically impossible at this point if you consider the number of teams that TFC would have to leapfrog in the standings, and the fact that some of those clubs have 2-3 games in hand. Simply put, it's not going to happen.

Conversely, TFC is in a far more enviable position in Group C of the CCL, being only one point out of contention, and on par with Dallas and Pumas in terms of games played.

The next MLS match against Chivas is essentially meaningless, with nothing more than pride at stake, while the next CCL match against Pumas should be treated as the most significant match in franchise history.

So you're saying there's a chance?

[Razor]

rest koevs..frings..jdg and anyone else that has any nagging injuries.

play the b team on sat and kick some puma ass on tuesday.

[PopePouri]

So you're saying there's a chance?

http://youtu.be/KX5jNnDMfxA

[rocker]

I have a feeling that Winter wants the team to continue to try to win as much as possible to build the winning mentality.

Because any loss does take its effect on team morale. Momentum counts, esp going against a good team like Pumas. Harder to get motivated to try to win a big game after a loss.

I don't believe in momentum. It's an idea humans make up to explain success (a team wins 5 games in a row, we say they have momentum.. but momentum didn't cause them to win game 2,3,4, and 5... they just won a game, then another game, then another... could be lots of factors in why, including injuries to the other team, travel, new signing etc.).

For example, TFC beat Columbus and played well (after two weeks off, not surprisingly), then got hammered in Mexico... but after getting hammered they came back and won 1-0. If our b-team gets hammered by Chivas, I don't see it having any effect on morale. And if half the guys stay in Toronto, they weren't even in LA to experience the loss, if that even mattered.

But I do believe that resting Johnson, Koev, Frings, Eck, etc could have a massive effect in helping us beat this very good Pumas team moreso than any morale issues.

[__wowza]

I don't believe in momentum. It's an idea humans make up to explain success (a team wins 5 games in a row, we say they have momentum.. but momentum didn't cause them to win game 2,3,4, and 5... they just won a game, then another game, then another..

that just reminds me of this..


http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__59/ept_sports_mlb_experts-575294055-1279409985.jpg?ymBN9dDD0guFq9F7

"We won a game yesterday, if we win one today that's two in a row. If we win one tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before."

[spark]

that just reminds me of this..


http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__59/ept_sports_mlb_experts-575294055-1279409985.jpg?ymBN9dDD0guFq9F7

"We won a game yesterday, if we win one today that's two in a row. If we win one tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before."


Haha yeah both statements are equally absurd!

[rocker]

that just reminds me of this..


http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__59/ept_sports_mlb_experts-575294055-1279409985.jpg?ymBN9dDD0guFq9F7

"We won a game yesterday, if we win one today that's two in a row. If we win one tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before."



haha. That's a funny quote.

If Winter puts together a squad that wins a bunch of games in a row, the team doesn't win because one win leads to another win which leads to another win (momentum); the team wins because Winter puts together a good squad and other teams are not as good! :)

Anyways, putting the kids out for Chivas isn't gonna have any psychological effect on the team playing Pumas in my opinion. If momentum existed, Tauro would have blown us out after the damaging loss against Pumas. But no, somehow TFC won...... ;) Similarly, putting the kids out for the Chivas game and winning or tieing would be awesome for the kids. If they lose, who cares? If Frings is relaxing back in Toronto at the time, he isn't gonna be psychologically damaged for the Pumas game.

[Couchy81]

Champions League is the most realistic chance right now, I'd like to see us put all our eggs in that basket. 1 point back with 2 games in CL group stage, or 10% chance to make MLS playoffs... If we make headlines in CL it's more glory and recognition than making the boring old MLS playoffs. The MLS cup just feels so meh to me for some reason.

[Wingback6]

Go for the win.... want to say it's in Winter's nature, being a former international... but he has proven himself to be anything but predictable this season IMHO.

[reggie]

is it true that frings is out of tuesdays match because of yellow cards?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I will trust that Kocic knows and he said Frings was unavailable last night on the Soccer Show.

This has changed my view on the next 2 matches. Frings and kids vs Chivas. The best minus Frings Tues.

[Oldtimer]

Go for the win.... want to say it's in Winter's nature, being a former international... but he has proven himself to be anything but predictable this season IMHO.

Agreed. We may armchair coach, but I don't know if we can do anything but guess what Winter may do.

The funny thing is, Chivas is not looking good right now, and there is even a chance that TFC playing some kids might get the win.

[moralis]

I watched yesterday's soccer show on Setanta and heard what Milos said about Frings being out. So I checked to see if Frings picked up a yellow card in the last game against Tauro FC. He did not pick up a yellow card, but Dunfield and Yourassousky did.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-09-20-toronto-fc-vs-tauro/stats

Here's the MLS stats page. If someone has twitter can they confirm with Asif about this. Need to find out for sure.

Thanks

[Canary10]

According to the CONCACAF website Frings got a yellow in the 90th minute:

http://www.concacafchampions.com/page/CL/Schedule/0,,12856,00.html

[Canary10]

Guess that settles one question about who should play tomorrow....

[Torontotonto]

The above links contridict each other.

One link shows no yellow for Frings in the Tauro game and the other shows he received a yellow in the 90' and he had one in the previous match against Dallas.

Had no idea we might be without our captain for the Pumas match ?
That would be a huge loss...

Can anyone confirm.

[Canary10]

I would take CONCACAF's match report over MLS's.

[Alonso]

And Kocic's word over anyone else's... he should know what's up.

[__wowza]

haha. That's a funny quote.

If Winter puts together a squad that wins a bunch of games in a row, the team doesn't win because one win leads to another win which leads to another win (momentum); the team wins because Winter puts together a good squad and other teams are not as good! :)

i agree and i disagree, i know that sometimes a team can be in good form. all of the pieces click, everyone has a good game (or enough of or players have a good enough game to mask the ones who aren't), etc.

however, there is a certain X factor to winning that may put a team in the mindset to continue winning. i'd like to argue that if a team has a losing streak, it does affect the teams morale, so shouldnt winning do the opposite of that? (in B4: victory disease!)

[Empirical]

I would love nothing more than for TFC to make an improbable late season charge towards a playoff spot. However, it's practically impossible at this point if you consider the number of teams that TFC would have to leapfrog in the standings, and the fact that some of those clubs have 2-3 games in hand. Simply put, it's not going to happen.

Conversely, TFC is in a far more enviable position in Group C of the CCL, being only one point out of contention, and on par with Dallas and Pumas in terms of games played.

The next MLS match against Chivas is essentially meaningless, with nothing more than pride at stake, while the next CCL match against Pumas should be treated as the most significant match in franchise history.

Look dude. I know about math and probability. It is possible to make the playoffs. It is impossible to determine whether it is going to happen. Foreseeably 'less probable' things happen each day.

[Torontotonto]

Anyone know a stream for this match ?

:flare::drum::scarf::drum::flare:

[Oldtimer]

Anyone know a stream for this match ?

:flare::drum::scarf::drum::flare:

I know the FAN590 will have it on the web, and once the baseball game is inished will have it on the radio (in progress).

[Furtado91]

http://tvportugalhd.com/

Looks like these guys will have the game. Right on the site click on the football tab and you will see the toronto fc game.

[Waggy]

AAAARRRRRGGGHHH WHY? Rest for tues!

Toronto FC
#TorontoFC XI: Frei; Eckersley, Harden, Iro, Morgan; de Guzman, Frings, Avila; Soolsma, Koevermans, Johnson .. #TFC #MLS

[ArmenJBX]

I count 8 players who should have been rested :/

[rocker]

AAAARRRRRGGGHHH WHY? Rest for tues!

Toronto FC
#TorontoFC XI: Frei; Eckersley, Harden, Iro, Morgan; de Guzman, Frings, Avila; Soolsma, Koevermans, Johnson .. #TFC #MLS

arrgghhhh... Johnson looked dead in the Tauro game...

Combine tired starters with the absence of Frings and we're in big trouble on Tuesday. A rested set of starters and Frings in the lineup wouldn't be a guaranteed win against Pumas, but it would at least give us a good shot. It's extremely hard to play in both competitions with the same starting 11. :(

[rocktml]

De fucking RO!!! Another 3 goal game. MVP!!!

Worse trade in historyyyyyy

[Auzzy]

^ Huh??? Wrong thread, wrong time perhaps?

[rocker]

De fucking RO!!! Another 3 goal game. MVP!!!

Worse trade in historyyyyyy

Yeah, why would anybody trade De Ro for Dax McCarty?? ;)

[ManUtd4ever]

AAAARRRRRGGGHHH WHY? Rest for tues!

Toronto FC
#TorontoFC XI: Frei; Eckersley, Harden, Iro, Morgan; de Guzman, Frings, Avila; Soolsma, Koevermans, Johnson .. #TFC #MLS

Ugh. At the very least, I hope JDG, Koevs, and Johnson are subbed off early.

[mowe]

#TorontoFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TorontoFC) XI: Frei; Eckersley, Harden, Iro, Morgan; de Guzman, Frings, Avila; Soolsma, Koevermans, Johnson .. #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC) #MLS (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23MLS)

Winter predictably goes with a first-choice lineup. Damn.

This is the first TFC game I'm not excited about. For the first time I don't really care if TFC wins. We really just needed to put ourselves in the best position to win against Pumas. Playing Koevermans, De Guzman, Eckersley, and Johnson doesn't do that. Damn late season wins delaying our mathematical elimination from the playoffs!

[Waggy]

I fucking hope Winter knows what he's doing. I'm pulling for a win, but a quick exit for JDG/Koevs seems essential imo. And have to save a sub too in case Frei isn't quite match fit yet too. I generally trust Winters decisions, but this baffles me. Why not have JDG/Koevs as subs and bring em in in the 60th or so if he insists on playing them? I'd rather have them at the end then the beginning. I guess the hope is build a lead early then sit on it. I look for both those guys to either be subbed at the half or after TFC scores (assuming we score)

[Pookie]

Yeah, why would anybody trade De Ro for Dax McCarty?? ;)

I wonder if DeRo will ever be considered as good as Jeff Cunningham?

[Alonso]

arrgghhhh... Johnson looked dead in the Tauro game...

Combine tired starters with the absence of Frings and we're in big trouble on Tuesday. A rested set of starters and Frings in the lineup wouldn't be a guaranteed win against Pumas, but it would at least give us a good shot. It's extremely hard to play in both competitions with the same starting 11. :(

Frings can't play vs Pumas anyway because of yellow card accumulation.

[Canary10]

Football's a game of form. I'm glad he's trying to keep it going. Willing to bet Plata is ready for Tuesday. Frings and Avila are out next game, JDG sat most of the last game, nice to see Frei back in. Might not necessarily be a case of overplaying players.

[ArmenJBX]

Plata's out for 3-4 weeks, no chance of being back for tuesday

[Alonso]

Football's a game of form. I'm glad he's trying to keep it going. Willing to bet Plata is ready for Tuesday. Frings and Avila are out next game, JDG sat most of the last game, nice to see Frei back in. Might not necessarily be a case of overplaying players.

Exactly, but Plata is probably no go for Tuesday. That would be a pleasant surprise though.

[Auzzy]

Game thread now open.

[Alonso]

No chat box today?

[JuliquE]

http://www.justin.tv/cholillo_830#/w/1813332032/6