Thank you Julian De Guzman

[Pookie]

I know that this board can be a focal point for soccer in the city. For that reason, I want to offer congratulations to Julian De Guzman for his play of recent.

Since his arrival, his play has not been without justified criticism. I know that I too challenged the decision to use the DP slot on him based on his play.

Despite overwhelming negativity, he continued to go to work and has been extremely positive about the team and the direction since the offseason. While there was drama in some corners, JDG was very positive and public about where he saw this team going.

In a city that is craving a "local hero", JDG's attitude this season has been something that soccer coaches (and parents) around the city can point to as an example for youth.

Attitude/motivation is one of the biggest predictors of success. If you love something and believe in it, you are more likely to succeed. In this case, it is contributing to the results.

What attitude? Take these quotes from March of this year:

On the system
“It is a style that has brought a lot success to a lot of soccer teams in the world, so to have this here in [the young players’] backyard, I think it is a great bonus for them … I enjoy playing it, I enjoy learning more about it as well, and most importantly, I enjoy seeing guys make progress, young Canadians who have something to look up to, which I never had growing up.”

“Even growing up in Canada I followed a lot of Dutch football my brother and I,” he said, “and then going to Europe I was involved in similar styles of play in Germany and also in Spain and now to come back home and have one of the most effective and attractive styles in my backyard I think it’s a dream come true.”

“I’m dying to be a part of this,” he revealed after practice Tuesday. “I’ve never had a chance to really be a part of such organized, structured football since I got here and once I’m game fit I’m looking forward to actually be a part of this system.”

“For a lot of people who are just used to seeing what they’re seeing in MLS I’m sure they’re quick to write it off,” he said, “but it’s a system that’s done well all over the world in a lot of different countries and has brought a lot of titles to the best in the world.”

And lastly, on Winter...
“It’s great to have his type of experience as a teacher,” de Guzman explained. “I looked up to him and watched him growing up in Canada in Europe and now he’s my coach so I think it’s a bonus for myself and a lot of guys who play in the same position to have this type of experience and someone coming from such a rich culture in football.”

Julian, I have no idea what the offseason will bring for you but I wanted to say that your recent string of matches have been a pleasure to watch. Thanks for your contribution and congratulations on your turn around.

[Alonso]

Well said Pookie and I would like to echo your sentiments. Well done Julian, and I hope you can find a way to stay with TFC on a non DP salary.

[T.Reis]

maybe it's Frings along side of him? could be!

[bigtfcfan]

Thank you Julian. I wish you all the best in the future, whether you are with TFC (preferred) or not.

[Waggy]

I too was on the "Run JDG out of town as soon as fucking possible!" bandwagon, but his play of late has been great. I do think Frings coming has helped him, (my hunch is that he isn't subconsciously worried about what's going on behind him at all times and is freer to concentrate on his game. just a theory) but no matter what like Pookie said, he never gave in. He never complained about the fans giving him the rough treatment, he didn't complain when TFC brought in another DP who plays his position (who wouldn't be leery when what's basically they're replacement is hired before they're fired?) and just generally acted with class. Even when things were bad for him. Good on ya JDG, you won me over as a fan.

[THA BUTCHA]

Isn't he a free agent after the end of this season?

[TFCDP]

Well said Pookie and I would like to echo your sentiments. Well done Julian, and I hope you can find a way to stay with TFC on a non DP salary.


That would be ideal for sure.. Although, I'm sure theres a team out there that would give him 750k plus.. Maybe he would stay if we signed his brother to a DP deal;)

[dow117]

Right from day 1, I always thought this guy was something special; now its happening for him in a system that suits... never understood the negative attacks by those looking for goals rather than looking for the quality that was always obvious...

[Azerban]

i, too, am glad that jdg has decided to finally turn it on two years into a three year contract

[Detroit_TFC]

maybe it's Frings along side of him? could be!

Clearly. Frings is providing some stability and confidence, which allows others to focus on what they need to do.

[PopePouri]

i, too, am glad that jdg has decided to finally turn it on two years into a three year contract

Well you have to if you're going to generate interest from Europe. /cynicism

[FluSH]

Loving his play as of late, and I hope it also carries into his WCQ matches!

[TFCREDNWHITE]

I have always stood by Julian since day one, and have followed him for much of his career! He is a great Canadian midfielder, who always respected putting on that uniform and wearing that crest! He is always positive and a true professional. Young canadian midfielders, should look up to him, and try to emulate him and hopefully so much more, I know my kid(who is being groomed to play for TFC and Canada) will be held to know him and respect him.

Thank you JDG, for being a stand up person and a professional Canadian

[TFCREDNWHITE]

Julian stood up for Canada and stood up for TorontoFC....*standing ovation*

[dupont]

He's definitely looked a lot better since Frings arrived. I don't know if that's the reason but I don't even care! It's just great to see it finally happen!

[Shakes McQueen]

JDG has been terrific since the transfer window additions - not sure if it's just him getting healthier, the improved company around him, or maybe a renewed interest and inspiration in his game, but I hope he keeps it going.

All of that said, he deserved every ounce of scorn he had received prior to this point. I was one of the people who were happy when he signed here, and I was one of the people who were really disappointed in his contribution before the past couple of months. It'll take a bigger body of work before I'm truly convinced he has turned the corner, as a result.

Still - it's been good to see him contributing.

- Scott

[DichioTFC]

Not sure if anyone heard the pregame on Fan 590 before the game, they had a pretty lengthy interview with JDG. He said he was healthier than he's been all season, the culture of the locker room has done a 180-degree turn since the beginning of the season, and the fact that a tremendous weight has been lifted now that he had that goal. He did speak highly of Frings (apparently Frings speaks *very* highly of JDG every chance he gets according to the reporter doing the interview) but he spoke at length about his relationship with Plata. Him and Plata have really connected and he considers Joao like his own son, inviting Plata over for meals with him and his girlfriend.

I had never heard JDG this positive in an interview before, barring his first interviews upon getting signed.

I know theres a lot of JDG hate here, and I can't say that I never doubted him / his ability, but I've more often than not been in favour of JDG. I think JDG is a credit to this club and I really dont give a shit what the haters say - I would be damn happy to re-sign JDG next season to another DP contract. When JDG is on fire, we are unstoppable.

[DichioTFC]

wZlkFSOdcAA

this is now the Julian De Guzman appreciation thread :D

[Empirical]

Him and Plata have really connected and he considers Joao like his own son, inviting Plata over for meals with him and his girlfriend.
.

yeah i could see this on the field. nice to have confirmation.

[Oldtimer]

maybe it's Frings along side of him? could be!

Everything goes better with a side of Frings! :D



I think we're finally seeing the player many of us knew he could be from his pedigree. His body language and what he says speaks volumes about how he feels now.

[jabbronies]

Loving his play as of late, and I hope it also carries into his WCQ matches!

This.

His August and September have been his best months in a TFC uniform. largly due to him starting to score goals. I wonder if he didn't score, if I would have the same evaluation of him.

His play off the ball is getting better. helps that he has better players around him.

Will be interesting to see what the new coaching staff think his worth is after his contract is up.

[Juanito]

I wanted him out, like most of you. If he continues to play like this, I will welcome him back. I really think now that Torsten is there, and he is no longer the only high-profile DP, he is allowed to play without the emotional shackles. Torsten allows him to move around and create some space for himself.

Good stuff JDG.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think he's playing to his contract this year. Unfortunately we needed him to do this for the last 2 years as well. I'll admit he's doing great this year but he'd have to do so much more to redeem his contract.

[PopePouri]

I think he's playing to his contract this year. Unfortunately we needed him to do this for the last 2 years as well. I'll admit he's doing great this year but he'd have to do so much more to redeem his contract.

Pretty much. It's inexcusable as a million dollar DP. He needed to do what Frings is doing right now.

[Oldtimer]

I think he's playing to his contract this year. Unfortunately we needed him to do this for the last 2 years as well. I'll admit he's doing great this year but he'd have to do so much more to redeem his contract.

It may very well be a case of the right player brought in at the wrong time. He didn't really belong on Preki's or Cummin's teams, but Mo couldn't see that. There was a serious style and quality mis-match. Don't forget he's been injured most of that time too.

[flatpicker]

^ I hope all of this is the case.
I would like to see this quality of play continue into 2012 (with Toronto).

[Pinkie]

I think he's playing to his contract this year. Unfortunately we needed him to do this for the last 2 years as well. I'll admit he's doing great this year but he'd have to do so much more to redeem his contract.
i feel this bears repeating...its pretty convenient that now is the time for him to be the player we signed two years ago

buuut since this is the appreciation thread...i'll appreciate that he has been good recently.

also it seems like all the players love plata. who couldn't?

[prizby]

he has 1 more year

[Detroit_TFC]

JDG will need to make a choice. Likely the team will ask him to stay, but on reduced wages. This is not uncommon with DPs around the league, even big producers like Schelotto at Columbus before he retired. He'll have to judge the value of recent team changes and how much it is worth. Frankly, his personal performance and the performance of the team over the last couple years is not a great basis to find a new club. Winter's system looks to be a good fit for him, just as a number of people thought it would. Better for him to stay, hopefully have a decent year then try to go back to Europe.

[Pookie]

If you look at the circumstances surrounding his arrival when he was blacklisted out of Europe, stated publicly that his desire was to play over there and ultimately settled here when everything else fell through, it isn't surprising that he struggled.

If you look at that, his head wasn't in it.

Add to that all the negativity around the team, drama with certain players, coaches, management and you've got a mix of circumstances that aren't positive and don't really lead themselves to top performance. His comments regarding the 180 in the locker room are pretty telling about what it was like. They also fly in the face with the comments made by outgoing players this year but I digress.

I know that others are linking this turnaround with a contract year and with Frings. I'm sure they are related.

At the same time, I think the most important factor was his outlook to start the season. Everything he said was positive. And that was with a knee injury to start the season. He gave the impression that he wanted to be here, was supportive of the system and truly wanted to play for his coaches.

Again, in the offseason, who knows what will happen. He may be looking for another kick at Europe or we might decide to use the DP slot on a CB. Or he just might find himself becoming a fan favourite and playing out his contract on an improved team.

He has the potential to become that "local hero" that the media and some fans seem to think we need. Regardless, his turnaround is an example of the power of a positive attitude and he has won me over into the "fan" camp.

[Fort York Redcoat]

JDG will need to make a choice. Likely the team will ask him to stay, but on reduced wages. This is not uncommon with DPs around the league, even big producers like Schelotto at Columbus before he retired. He'll have to judge the value of recent team changes and how much it is worth. Frankly, his personal performance and the performance of the team over the last couple years is not a great basis to find a new club. Winter's system looks to be a good fit for him, just as a number of people thought it would. Better for him to stay, hopefully have a decent year then try to go back to Europe.

I would think a lot more of him if he were to stay on reduced wages and have another year like this. 2 more and he'd have made it up for me but that is obviously a longshot.

[Yohan]

JDG makes what, 1.7 per year? asking him to take a massive pay cut to 400k per year is a little too much, I think.

Not exactly sure how Shitlicker's contract was structured, but a lot of it was bonus based IIRC.

Only other former DP to take a massive pay cut was Claudio Lopez and JDG has by far a lot more going for him than Lopez in comparison

[Detroit_TFC]

JDG makes what, 1.7 per year? asking him to take a massive pay cut to 400k per year is a little too much, I think.

Not exactly sure how Shitlicker's contract was structured, but a lot of it was bonus based IIRC.

Only other former DP to take a massive pay cut was Claudio Lopez and JDG has by far a lot more going for him than Lopez in comparison

A low end DP salary would be more reasonable I think. $800k or $900k.

[Ageroo]

Give him whatever he wants if he continues to play like this..... ;)

[Technorgasm]

I am sending the first post and the link to this thread to Jules, I hope you all dont mind.

[Yohan]

A low end DP salary would be more reasonable I think. $800k or $900k.
in terms of salary cap rules wise, what's the point then? other than to save MLSE some money

[flatpicker]

^ Agreed.
I'm really not fussed about what any of our Designated Players get paid.
Pay DeGuz $5mil, for all I care.
It's still the same hit to the overall payroll.

[Suds]

Was thread started to mock Carts?? :hide:

just kidding ... :D

:leaving:

[PopePouri]

Even if he does sustain this type of performance, I'd rather spend DP money on a defender. 2 DP DMs is kinda overkill when you have a decent one available in Dunfield.

[__wowza]

im still on the outs with JDG and heres why:

when we first signed him, many of us were delighted. we got a canadian, our first DP signing, a national team boy and a player whod spent the bulk of his time honing his craft overseas.

as time went on, opinions started to deteriorate. not because he was necessarily bad, but because he wasnt playing with any heart. aside from the match against cruzl azul, and the game after the game where he single-handedly split a wall by moving out of the way and allowing a goal.. he wasn't playing like he cared.. and the way he cared didnt reflect the way we cared.

many of us would point to the fact that the players around him weren't playing that well, or just weren't any good, but the fact of the matter remains: for 90% of our games he just didnt show up. now, im sorry.. when you're getting a million dollars to play, even if you're surrounded by shit, you play to the best of your fucking abilities. JDG wasn't.

his recent form could be attributed to a number of things: the system, our new signing, the new shape of the team, winter, but none of that matters to me.


a true gem is someone that makes the team around him better.
someone who will never throw in the towel and help rally the ones who do.
this man is not JDG.



when the chips were down, he showed it. he's certainly not worth a million dollars, or a DP slot and he's going to have to work incredibly fucking hard from here on out to prove me otherwise.

[__wowza]

im trying not to be negative here, im really impressed by his form as of late, but i can't help compare the fact to how he's playing now to how he should have played when he first got here.

[Detroit_TFC]

in terms of salary cap rules wise, what's the point then? other than to save MLSE some money

What, you don't think that MLSE sees things in terms of total outlay? You don't think that $600K or so difference on the total wage bill has an impact on other aspects of team operations, or in terms of the amount of revenue they want to generate (i.e., how much they charge us for everything)?

[Ageroo]

im trying not to be negative here, im really impressed by his form as of late, but i can't help compare the fact to how he's playing now to how he should have played when he first got here.

Not making excuses, but I think this is the healthiest he has been since he has arrived. Is that the reason for his form....who knows?

[Yohan]

What, you don't think that MLSE sees things in terms of total outlay? You don't think that $600K or so difference on the total wage bill has an impact on other aspects of team operations, or in terms of the amount of revenue they want to generate (i.e., how much they charge us for everything)?
oh, I get all that

but i'm strictly concerned only about the salary cap in this case

[Pookie]

^ again health and frame of mind are working together for him right now, IMO

He arrived here with disappointment at not being able to stay in Europe. When he got here he starts playing and isn't match fit. We have a gong show with regards to coaches and another popular fellow starts using JDG's contract and output as a comparator to publicly lobby for a new deal.

Fast forward to a new coach he respects and a system he believes in. He has surgery to correct a problem and is able to regain match fitness as the season progresses. The garden is weeded, new guys are brought in and in his own words, the locker room is a "180 degree turnaround."

Of course, his contract being up in a year might also be a motivator. In the end though he has a fresh look at the situation, focuses on the positives and puts his head down and starts to play. And all of that "positive attitude" stuff started before the season began and has continued through the down times.

I've got to respect that.

[Couchy81]

I think we are all in agreement it is good to have a healthy JDG playing his best for one season out of the three than zero seasons out of the three.

I would not be opposed to extending his contract for next season anyways and keeping this squad together as it looks like it is shaping up nicely.

[Dreadlocks]

I personally have never given up on him - and will not, ever.

Ya sure I'll call him out for poor play but being a local boy means that he could have been one of us in the stands, had his life taken some different turns. I'm sure any of us would appreciate the positive support if we were in his shoes as I'm sure he does .

Something else that is telling is that his form hasn't been up to his European standard, not just on TFC but also on the CNMT. Had he still been great on the National level and not so good at the club level, one could say that he didn't care about TFC but that was not the case. There are/were clearly imo some other issues in play!

So JDG if you're reading this, I'm VERY proud to say you play for TFC and Canada and I always will be.

[Oldtimer]

I think we are all in agreement it is good to have a healthy JDG playing his best for one season out of the three than zero seasons out of the three.

I would not be opposed to extending his contract for next season anyways and keeping this squad together as it looks like it is shaping up nicely.

That might be a very good thing.

However, I think that Winter/Mariner should be allowed to make the call, without any interference from the marketing types at ML$E.

[Couchy81]

However, I think that Winter/Mariner should be allowed to make the call, without any interference from the marketing types at ML$E.

Agreed, however if the marketing types at MLSE were in fact pulling strings, I doubt they would have traded Dero as he was a fan favorite, so I'm thinking we're in good hands now with Mariner at the helm.

[Empirical]

he looks way cuter with that short hair. fuck its sexy.

[kodiakTFC]

There were quite a few people on this board that said JDG would be better with Frings alongside him. It seems to be pretty true.

[ManUtd4ever]

JDG has definitely turned the corner since the NCC Final, and he has evolved into a consistent, formidable, presence in the midfield. He seems to have finally regained full fitness following his off season knee surgery, and he has been rejuvenated playing with the reinforcements that have been added to the lineup in recent weeks.

[los sonadores]

JDG has been terrific since the transfer window additions - not sure if it's just him getting healthier, the improved company around him, or maybe a renewed interest and inspiration in his game, but I hope he keeps it going.

All of that said, he deserved every ounce of scorn he had received prior to this point. I was one of the people who were happy when he signed here, and I was one of the people who were really disappointed in his contribution before the past couple of months. It'll take a bigger body of work before I'm truly convinced he has turned the corner, as a result.

Still - it's been good to see him contributing.

- Scott

Don't think a skilled player playing with an injury and with a disorganized and often clueless team around him (that have largely now been shipped out) is worthy of scorn. Besides the guy has been working hard and has kept a good attitude.

[torontocelt]

JDG has overall been a huge flop as a DP. I am glad though that he is finally playing like a DP, he did not do that consistently during the previous seasons. I am also glad he is being positive and saying the right things but at a wage of $1.8m per season I am pretty sure most people would be content and happy especially when you are getting pats on the back for basically finally playing to a level that is expected of you. JDG is not out performing his job role, everyone is just excited he is now fulfilling it after all this time, it doesn't cut it with me.

[ensco]

Don't think a skilled player playing with an injury and with a disorganized and often clueless team around him (that have largely now been shipped out) is worthy of scorn. Besides the guy has been working hard and has kept a good attitude.

True. Also the blame, if any, for signing him, belongs to the team, not the player.

[Oldtimer]

JDG is not out performing his job role, everyone is just excited he is now fulfilling it after all this time, it doesn't cut it with me.

A 92% successful pass rate in the last game is extremely good. I would say that he is becoming everything that we would want him to be.

Don't let the disappointment of 2 seasons cloud your judgement of how he is currently playing.

[PAOK17]

I've always been a supporter of JDG. When he first arrived he was out of shape but I clearly remember that his first touch was considerably better than anyone else's on the field. Remember his debut in LA? We lost but I remember feeling good about him. Let's be honest, I always rated him higher than Carl Robinson (not looking from a contract perspective either) and he is better than Dunfield who is going to get a raise next year.

The second season was when we were playing Preki ball. Did anyone look particularly good last year other than Frei? For crying out loud Cann was our team MVP, a CB when we as a team have always been weak in that position. I think that speaks volumes of how bad we were.

What bothered me the most was that the fans were continuously on his case as if just because he made more money than everyone else he'd be our saviour. With those kind of expectations of him, any performance less than amazing left everyone disappointed. So when he plays a poor game everyone wants him out. But even in his poor games, I've found that he's still been the best DM we've had until the arrival of Frings.

Let's not forget that for most of last season both the media and even teammates were constantly pointing out his salary. You think he didn't know of the criticism? I'm not saying we shouldn't scrutinize, by all means it's our "job" to do so. However no one has received as much criticism as him yet we don't get immature tweets nor unprofessional outbursts on the pitch. He never says anything public to the media nor does he call out the poor quality in players he has around him. Meanwhile you have an entire fiasco with DeRo that must have started much before the cheque-signing incident all because he makes more money. We as fans care about how the salary cap works. Guys like DeRo do not. Is DeRo the first player in the world on a team to have made less money than a teammate even though the general consensus is that the lower paid player is performing better? No. However in all my years of following professional soccer, this is the first time I've seen a player have a public outburst using another teammates' salary as leverage for contract renegotiations. So how do we expect JDG's mind to be in the right place with that kind of scrutiny that doesn't even happen (at least publicly) in teams of the world?

I think one of the worst moments I've experienced as a fan was while in 127 when JDG was being subbed off late in the second half having played a pretty good game (one of his first this season) and fans behind me were booing him and asking for DeRo to come back. Any more hate shown towards this guy during game time and I'd swear he'd be catching up to Cunningham on our hate list. Yet JDG has not even brought up that it is difficult to play in such circumstances especially when going public with personal grievances seems to be the fashionable trend for this team over the years.

[Pookie]

^ amen

[Oldtimer]

So how do we expect JDG's mind to be in the right place with that kind of scrutiny that doesn't even happen (at least publicly) in teams of the world?



I can't imagine how uncomfortable it must have been for him. Most of us don't have our salaries publicly available. Imagine sitting in the locker room after the game, and at least one team-mate (and maybe more) is glowering at you because he feels that he deserves more than you? Maybe it comes with the territory, but I can't see how one could perform in those circumstances.

[JuliquE]

I think one of the worst moments I've experienced as a fan was while in 127 when JDG was being subbed off late in the second half having played a pretty good game (one of his first this season) and fans behind me were booing him and asking for DeRo to come back. Any more hate shown towards this guy during game time and I'd swear he'd be catching up to Cunningham on our hate list. Yet JDG has not even brought up that it is difficult to play in such circumstances especially when going public with personal grievances seems to be the fashionable trend for this team over the years.
Your whole post was win, but this last paragraph and especially the emboldened portion really struck me.

[__wowza]

Don't let the disappointment of 2 seasons cloud your judgement of how he is currently playing.

unfortunately, for what he's been and what he's made, i'd have to disagree. whether we'd like to admit it or not, he hasn't been worth the wage that's fucking HUGE for me, because i look at that and wonder who else we could've brought in as a DP and who we could've signed with the cap hit we took under him



With those kind of expectations of him, any performance less than amazing left everyone disappointed... But even in his poor games, I've found that he's still been the best DM we've had until the arrival of Frings.


when you say "less than amazing" i'd like to remind you that almost 80% of his performances were less than amazing. everyone was disappointed because he was disappointing us. and please, don't say he's the best DM we've ever had up till frings, that's a given, but that doesn't mean we couldn't find ANYONE better than him (even within the league) that wouldn't be his wage or cheaper.



yet we don't get immature tweets nor unprofessional outbursts on the pitch. He never says anything public to the media nor does he call out the poor quality in players he has around him.

i don't see how he's scoring points for acting how a professional should act. you're comparing him to dero, but youre twisting the point dero was trying to make, ad that was that he believed he was being underpaid in relation to someone who didnt do much and made almost 3 times his wage. when you're making a case that you're working hard for the team, what was a better comparison to make to prove your case than putting yourself against someone that doesn't do anything?

and im sorry if people were booing the man, but it's not like they didn't have a reason. by that logic we can also give kudos to players like iro and harden for continuing the play despite the fact that we would much rather see them benched, or elsewhere.

[P-NUTZ]

i would thank him for finally earning his $.

i never doubted he is a solid person with a respectful attitude.

it's not his fault he has a great agent, but it is when he cannot play up to the price.

I'm happy seeing the quality in him lately.

[__wowza]

^ agreed. yes, he's in my shitbook but i'll admit he has gotten FAR better. if he can keep it up he may very well make me eat my words.

[torontocelt]

A 92% successful pass rate in the last game is extremely good. I would say that he is becoming everything that we would want him to be.

Don't let the disappointment of 2 seasons cloud your judgment of how he is currently playing.

A 92% pass rate is nothing to sniff at but it depends what kind of passes he was making and how much trouble he was putting the receiver in. A 92% pass rate indicates he was making safe passes which I am not going to complain about if he has guys on the team who can make the more dangerous forward passes.

I am not going to judge JDG on this season and this season only, I am going to judge him on all the time he has spent here, his DP status and how much money he makes. He has been a huge failure so far for the team.

[Oblio2]

unfortunately, for what he's been and what he's made, i'd have to disagree. whether we'd like to admit it or not, he hasn't been worth the wage that's fucking HUGE for me, because i look at that and wonder who else we could've brought in as a DP and who we could've signed with the cap hit we took under him



when you say "less than amazing" i'd like to remind you that almost 80% of his performances were less than amazing. everyone was disappointed because he was disappointing us. and please, don't say he's the best DM we've ever had up till frings, that's a given, but that doesn't mean we couldn't find ANYONE better than him (even within the league) that wouldn't be his wage or cheaper.



i don't see how he's scoring points for acting how a professional should act. you're comparing him to dero, but youre twisting the point dero was trying to make, ad that was that he believed he was being underpaid in relation to someone who didnt do much and made almost 3 times his wage. when you're making a case that you're working hard for the team, what was a better comparison to make to prove your case than putting yourself against someone that doesn't do anything?

and im sorry if people were booing the man, but it's not like they didn't have a reason. by that logic we can also give kudos to players like iro and harden for continuing the play despite the fact that we would much rather see them benched, or elsewhere.


+1

:hump:

[Couchy81]

I'd like to throw this hypothesis out there. Lionel fucking Messi playing on Preki's team last season would look like shit too.

[torontocelt]

I'd like to throw this hypothesis out there. Lionel fucking Messi playing on Preki's team last season would look like shit too.

I would doubt that very much. DeRo played on Preki's team and looked good so I am guessing Messi would be alright.

[Oldtimer]

A 92% pass rate is nothing to sniff at but it depends what kind of passes he was making and how much trouble he was putting the receiver in. A 92% pass rate indicates he was making safe passes which I am not going to complain about if he has guys on the team who can make the more dangerous forward passes.



It indicates nothing of the sort. It's a hypothesis to explain a fact, and it's only one of several possible explanations.

All you have to do is look at the games, and he is not doing mostly pass-backs. In fact, he's done a few killer passes that have led to goals and near goals.

[__wowza]

I would doubt that very much. DeRo played on Preki's team and looked good so I am guessing Messi would be alright.

dero > messi

you heard it here first.

[torontocelt]

It indicates nothing of the sort. It's a hypothesis to explain a fact, and it's only one of several possible explanations.

All you have to do is look at the games, and he is not doing mostly pass-backs. In fact, he's done a few killer passes that have led to goals and near goals.

Any player that has a 92% pass completion is playing mostly safe balls, nothing wrong with that. If he is not doing that in order to get 92% hw would have to be the worlds best passer.

Also I never even mentioned pass backs, you made that up yourself.

[torontocelt]

dero > messi

you heard it here first.

Yep that is what I was saying DeRo is better than Messi :facepalm:

[__wowza]

Yep that is what I was saying DeRo is better than Messi :facepalm:

DONT YOU FACEPALM ME!! GO TO YOUR ROOM!!
my post was sarcasm :)
i got what you meant, im just being an arse about it.

taking crouchys point though:
im not a huge la liga fan so i only know messi in the WC and champions league, but im pretty sure my skill / heart / tactics triad will make sense of what i think makes for a winning player or a team. if a player has two of sed traits, they can be successful in a club.

if they have skill and heart, it makes up for a coaches shitty tactics
if they have the tactics and heart, it can make up for lack of skill
if they have skill and the tactics, they can shine without playing with heart


nailing all three is a true gem, nailing only one of those and youre asking for trouble.

[torontocelt]

DONT YOU FACEPALM ME!! GO TO YOUR ROOM!!
my post was sarcasm :)
i got what you meant, im just being an arse about it.

taking crouchys point though:
im not a huge la liga fan so i only know messi in the WC and champions league, but im pretty sure my skill / heart / tactics triad will make sense of what i think makes for a winning player or a team. if a player has two of sed traits, they can be successful in a club.

if they have skill and heart, it makes up for a coaches shitty tactics
if they have the tactics and heart, it can make up for lack of skill
if they have skill and the tactics, they can shine without playing with heart


nailing all three is a true gem, nailing only one of those and youre asking for trouble.

cool, good analysis of skill/heart/ tactics also.

[Couchy81]

I would doubt that very much. DeRo played on Preki's team and looked good so I am guessing Messi would be alright.

Yea on second thought you're probably right. (Although Dero scored 17 goals in 39 total appearances in 2010 and you KNOW how many of those were penalty shot goals).

In any case the individual skill of an attacking player shines more than the individual skill of a DM on a shit team. You break up a play, make a pass, and the guy you pass to has poor touch or loses out to a tackle he didn't avoid. Much less noticeable than a goal scored.

[Alonso]

Yea on second thought you're probably right. (Although Dero scored 17 goals in 39 total appearances in 2010 and you KNOW how many of those were penalty shot goals).

In any case the individual skill of an attacking player shines more than the individual skill of a DM on a shit team. You break up a play, make a pass, and the guy you pass to has poor touch or loses out to a tackle he didn't avoid. Much less noticeable than a goal scored.

I know it was high, but how many were there? I tried looking on the interwebes for the answer once without any luck.

[Couchy81]

I know it was high, but how many were there? I tried looking on the interwebes for the answer once without any luck.

I just did a bit of research and I'm actually shocked, I thought the number was way higher - 3 penalty shot goals in league play out of his 15, and 1 normal goal in the NCC and one in the Champions League vs Motagua.

I take back my "you KNOW" comment. I honestly thought that DeRo took a PK like every third or fourth game. Unless the mlssoccer site is wrong, because according to their stats for 2010 every pk scored was by dero for a total of 3 on the season for TFC.

[Alonso]

[/B]


That would be ideal for sure.. Although, I'm sure theres a team out there that would give him 750k plus.. Maybe he would stay if we signed his brother to a DP deal;)

Torsten came over to play with a pay cut (he had better offers for more money in Europe) maybe JDG would follow suit? He strikes me as the type of guy that would actually do this especially to stay home....

Fingers crossed.

[J .]

JDG is playing well now, yes.

He shouldnt be back on this team. He will have one last change to revive his career and TFC will not be that place.

JDG was never going to be a fit here and I really hope for him, his fans and the CMNT, he goes back to spain, or somewhere in Europe to regain his previous form.

[Oldtimer]

JDG is playing well now, yes.

He shouldnt be back on this team. He will have one last change to revive his career and TFC will not be that place.

JDG was never going to be a fit here and I really hope for him, his fans and the CMNT, he goes back to spain, or somewhere in Europe to regain his previous form.

Absent from the board after our road win against Columbus, now * surprise, * you make a reappearance when TFC loses.

[J .]

Absent from the board after our road win against Columbus, now * surprise, * you make a reappearance when TFC loses.


Trolling my posts?

Where was I saturday? I worked until midnight, then took my girlfriend out to her friends bday for Karaoke.

Is that ok for you?

Oh right? I guess my having four years of optimism previous to this year doesnt hold up to your standard.

I think you forget I was one of the few positive regarding last year until MeRo appeared.

Any other issues we can discuss in PM or face to face.

[v00d00daddy]

Trolling my posts?

Where was I saturday? I worked until midnight, then took my girlfriend out to her friends bday for Karaoke.

Is that ok for you?

Oh right? I guess my having four years of optimism previous to this year doesnt hold up to your standard.

I think you forget I was one of the few positive regarding last year until MeRo appeared.

Any other issues we can discuss in PM or face to face.


Hahahahaha

Face to face? LOL

[J .]

Hahahahaha

Face to face? LOL


I dont get it?

[Fort York Redcoat]

JDG was only one of the what, two who had a kick of the ball even the same direction of the net last night vs Pumas? Not nearly enough but he's a different player since Gold Cup.

[ag futbol]

I think it's clear he was struggling with some things physically for a long, long, time.

He's starting to gain some fitness and clearly his mobility is back. He was looking semi pudgy at the start of the year.

But really it's all down to the hair cut.