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View Full Version : Club should sign Stefan Vukovic now



jloome
08-25-2011, 08:29 PM
He can probably contribute right away and compete with Avila and Griffit for the spot in the hole. We know it's going to happen anyway, and why court free agent fate by leaving it for later? It's not like we're playing for the playoffs, realistically, so we should blood the kids whenever possible.

Greatest Ripoff
08-25-2011, 08:36 PM
What I've seen of the academy games he's looked good and has scored a lot in the cls. But I am trying to remember, was he played as a centre forward? But yeah, this seems like a no-brainer. It keeps him around and does impact on out cap.

Yohan
08-25-2011, 09:00 PM
risk of calling him up too early and similar fate as Makubuya and Cordon?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-25-2011, 09:24 PM
risk of calling him up too early and similar fate as Makubuya and Cordon?

thatd be my concern.
i got faith that Winter and Mariner will call him up when they think its appropriate.

Greatest Ripoff
08-25-2011, 09:39 PM
risk of calling him up too early and similar fate as Makubuya and Cordon?

I wouldn't say it would be 'calling him up'. Give him a contract and let him play in the cls. I would say it's about getting him under a contract so that he can't just up and leave.

Yohan
08-25-2011, 09:52 PM
I wouldn't say it would be 'calling him up'. Give him a contract and let him play in the cls. I would say it's about getting him under a contract so that he can't just up and leave.
i'm not even sure if TFC has a roster spot available right now

and i'm pretty sure MLS doesn't allow academy players to be signed to a professional contract and loaned back to academy...?

Greatest Ripoff
08-25-2011, 09:55 PM
I am not 100% sure but I thought you could have unlimited home grown players on you roster. Anyone know about this? Also lots of TFC players with MLS contracts have played for TFCA this year. So that wouldn't be a problem.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-26-2011, 07:03 AM
i think its 6 homegrown players (soon to be unlimited)

ag futbol
08-26-2011, 07:53 AM
i'm not even sure if TFC has a roster spot available right now

and i'm pretty sure MLS doesn't allow academy players to be signed to a professional contract and loaned back to academy...?
Ugghhh ... didn't Kocic do this already?

Yohan
08-26-2011, 09:38 AM
Ugghhh ... didn't Kocic do this already?
I thought Kocic was loaned to Serbia White Eagles or something

Flint
08-26-2011, 09:48 AM
I thought Kocic was loaned to Serbia White Eagles or something

Correct.

Vukovic can score that's for sure but I'd hold up on bringing him up for now.

Greatest Ripoff
08-26-2011, 10:05 AM
What are the quality of the MLS reserves games? I've never seen one but I saw he scored in one against DC. Is it comparable to the CLS?

ryan
08-26-2011, 10:12 AM
What are the quality of the MLS reserves games? I've never seen one but I saw he scored in one against DC. Is it comparable to the CLS?

The players in reserve games are well...reserves. So if they are on the pro roster and didn't suit up for the MLS match, as well as being fit, they would have played.

I do recall seeing Dunfield, Yourass, Makubya in TFC's lineup for that one, Davies played for DC.

London
08-26-2011, 10:32 AM
14 goals in 16 matches for the boy.

he is the forward of the near future, lets not push him too fast.

Yeoman
08-26-2011, 04:50 PM
The players in reserve games are well...reserves. So if they are on the pro roster and didn't suit up for the MLS match, as well as being fit, they would have played.

I do recall seeing Dunfield, Yourass, Makubya in TFC's lineup for that one, Davies played for DC.

lots of players do double duties actually for most teams
i know a few players from clownbus had to double duty it this year.

jazzy
08-26-2011, 05:47 PM
What I've seen of the academy games he's looked good and has scored a lot in the cls. But I am trying to remember, was he played as a centre forward? But yeah, this seems like a no-brainer. It keeps him around and does impact on out cap.

Yes CF...and he would have to compete with Koeverman, is this good?, as there would be little playing time. When he is on the end of crosses he is beyond his years but off the ball he needs development. Now would he learn more with the big club as Stinson or be better off with more competitive playing time, with Danny?

jazzy
08-26-2011, 05:58 PM
What are the quality of the MLS reserves games? I've never seen one but I saw he scored in one against DC. Is it comparable to the CLS?

It's close but I enjoy the reserve games a touch more , guys competing to get into the main game or 1rst team players coming back from injury. With the academy we always are giving up an age difference,to older CSL teams. Good or bad...Sometimes the kids give up all lot of size, but all are all heart. saw Vuckovich score a hat trick, his control from headers is big league!...Surely don't want to lose him.

Greatest Ripoff
04-09-2012, 11:46 AM
Does anyone know if he is still with the tfc academy?

This was posted on the Voyageurs forum and has 'Stefan Vuckovic' listed as playing an academy match for the impact last week.

http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2012/04/impact-u21-draws-1-1-against-rochester-rhinos

London
04-09-2012, 11:50 AM
^^^ if this is true this is unacceptable from TFC

moralis
04-09-2012, 12:02 PM
Montreal listed the player name as "Stefan Vuckovic", TFC Academy player is "Stefan Vukovic". Note there is a "C" in the Montreal player not in the TFC player:

http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2012/04/impact-u21-draws-1-1-against-rochester-rhinos

http://twitter.com/#!/Stefan9Vukovic

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Stefan+Vukovic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Greatest Ripoff
04-09-2012, 12:19 PM
Montreal listed the player name as "Stefan Vuckovic", TFC Academy player is "Stefan Vukovic". Note there is a "C" in the Montreal player not in the TFC player:

http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2012/04/impact-u21-draws-1-1-against-rochester-rhinos

http://twitter.com/#!/Stefan9Vukovic

http://www.google.ca/search?q=Stefan+Vukovic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Yes I know, that is why there is quotations around the name. People on the V's forum think it was just a spelling mistake on the website.

I seem to remember someone from the forum knowing his family. Just wanted to see if anyone had an concrete information.

denime
04-09-2012, 12:21 PM
14 goals in 16 matches for the boy.

he is the forward of the near future, lets not push him too fast.


Agree 100%

denime
04-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Yes I know, that is why there is quotations around the name. People on the V's forum think it was just a spelling mistake on the website.

I seem to remember someone from the forum knowing his family. Just wanted to see if anyone had an concrete information.


I know his father,it might take me some time to get in touch with him.Let me see what can I do.

dantdot
04-09-2012, 01:29 PM
Given he isn't on the academy roster, didn't play in the reserve game and references to both spellings of his name appear in older search results. I'd say it's probably true.

Whoop
04-09-2012, 01:30 PM
It appears that indeed, Vukovic is with Montreal.



Luke Wileman ‏ @LukeWileman (https://twitter.com/#%21/LukeWileman)
Interesting to see former TFC Academy FW Stefan Vukovic now with Montreal Impact U21s. Did well in CSL and was with TFC squad in preseason

London
04-09-2012, 01:33 PM
someone tweet him, i dont tweet

West220Side
04-09-2012, 02:31 PM
If we've lost this promising academy prospect, i'll be losing even more faith in Winter. He's failed to adapt his philosphy to regular MLS play this season. The one positive i've taken from Winter so far is overall increasing the level of talent in the squad, and his work with the academy. However if we lose a prospect like this... its all for nothing, we're not creating prospects for other teams. I like to often look at the academy and see what we have coming up into the first squad, but it would be nice if they actually made it here.

The major upset would be if we lost Jordan Hamilton, I think he's a promising one coming up.

razor787
04-09-2012, 02:38 PM
Wow, I wonder what happened to make him jump ship. Shitty situation though. I don't know what he's like myself, but I have heard lots of praise in the past, so I can imagine he would have been a starter for us in a couple years.

Yohan
04-09-2012, 03:16 PM
Wow, I wonder what happened to make him jump ship. Shitty situation though. I don't know what he's like myself, but I have heard lots of praise in the past, so I can imagine he would have been a starter for us in a couple years.

fed up with not getting a chance at TFC?

Jeff s
04-09-2012, 03:19 PM
Man Winter likes getting rid of talent just like Aleman. On top of that, he doesn't give players like Cordon enough time and plays Henry out of position. Is he trying to build or ruin the future?

When asked about Vukovic, Winter for whatever reason always seemed unimpressed by him. I guess having a young striker that scores goals isn't in Winter's plan.

TFCBarrie
04-09-2012, 03:26 PM
Man Winter likes getting rid of talent just like Aleman. On top of that, he doesn't give players like Cordon enough time and plays Henry out of position. Is he trying to build or ruin the future?

When asked about Vukovic, Winter for whatever reason always seemed unimpressed by him. I guess having a young striker that scores goals isn't in Winter's plan.

No one has any idea what happened. You can't start blaming Winter for things without basis.

Greatest Ripoff
04-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Someone with twitter should message him and see if wants to give any information on the situation.

http://twitter.com/#!/Stefan9Vukovic

Yohan
04-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Man Winter likes getting rid of talent just like Aleman. On top of that, he doesn't give players like Cordon enough time and plays Henry out of position. Is he trying to build or ruin the future?

When asked about Vukovic, Winter for whatever reason always seemed unimpressed by him. I guess having a young striker that scores goals isn't in Winter's plan.
Aleman refused to sign a letter of intent committing him to TFC.

Cordon had his chances early last season but did not impress. No way to know whether he's improved enough or not (and frankly, he's behind depth chart at AM behind RJ, Avila and Silva)

Henry had his chances at CB, and he made a lot of costly rookie mistakes. At least he's getting some first team mins.

smtavare
04-09-2012, 04:44 PM
I have asked Luke Wileman about this via twitter, all he said was that he was released. I then asked him why, no response.
I then asked all TFC connections about this with no response - Kurt Larson, Paul B., etc. - nothing!

I'm not happy.

See my tweets @smtavare if you are on twitter. We need a better explanation as he seemed to be to good to let go for nothing:facepalm:?

Yeoman
04-09-2012, 04:59 PM
lame
i could have sworn i saw him listed in the reserves

Canary10
04-09-2012, 05:15 PM
Is it not at all possible that he's just not good enough?

Yeoman
04-09-2012, 05:22 PM
i'd debate that
the kid tore that league apart.....................pun..........intended?
he was just in a whole nother world when in the CSL and going up their defenders

Canary10
04-09-2012, 05:27 PM
I had friends who played in CSL. The jump from there to MLS is pretty big. I don't know personally because I didn't see enough of him but TFC management had plenty of time to look at him.

PopePouri
04-09-2012, 05:39 PM
Of all the crap that Winter is as a manager and tactician, I see more potential in him looking at and understanding younger talent given that he did that at Ajax. If he was shit at that I would have fired at Ajax after a year. He was there for 4.

You cannot deny how well he handled Morgan, Plata or even Stinson who seems to have blossomed under his regime.

Roogsy
04-09-2012, 05:56 PM
If that's the case then those people around here resting their hopes on our academy are gonna get a nasty surprise.

Island Man
04-09-2012, 07:33 PM
He was released, didn't want to leave, now training with the impact.

prizby
04-09-2012, 08:23 PM
Wow, I wonder what happened to make him jump ship. Shitty situation though. I don't know what he's like myself, but I have heard lots of praise in the past, so I can imagine he would have been a starter for us in a couple years.

maybe cuz tfc is still in the csl and montreal is going to a 10 month calender (more training time with MTL...dunno how there's works differently)

Whoop
04-10-2012, 10:58 AM
Molinaro confirms via Rongen that TFC released Vukovic after they came back from Orlando.

smtavare
04-10-2012, 12:05 PM
What is the reasoning behind this though, fuck if this was about a Marlies player the media guys would try a little harder to find out why.

What a joke, not good enough answer from TFC or effort from our news reporters/media guys out there to find out why :picard:

Voodooman
04-10-2012, 12:20 PM
What a shame, this guy was very tough to play against, he has a lot of potential still to give. Just hope he doesn't do the Toronto thing, and score on us if he makes it up to the MLS

TFCBarrie
04-10-2012, 12:24 PM
Is it not at all possible that he's just not good enough?

That is completely possible.

denime
04-10-2012, 12:33 PM
Is it not at all possible that he's just not good enough?

He is 18 years old,if he was good enough to play in MLS at that age,he would be already playing in Europe.Of course he wasn't ready for the 1st team,but do you have to cut him from academy too,I don't think so.

Roogsy
04-10-2012, 01:35 PM
If he wasn't good enough, is it safe to say a whole bunch of our academy are not good enough? I don't know much about our younger players, but I was made to understand Vukovich was one of those with more potential. What does that say about how much the Academy will contribute to future 1st teams?

mdc 77
04-10-2012, 01:38 PM
I don't think we can really judge the success of failings of the academy based on Vukovich or even Morgan, Cordon, Roberts etc. This is a very long term approach, to judge the academy we need to see some kids that go through it from a young age, not join at 16 and sign with TFC at 18. Thats great but it really doesn't tell us if the academy is working out or not so far. Way to early to even talk about that.

pekduck
04-10-2012, 01:41 PM
If he wasn't good enough, is it safe to say a whole bunch of our academy are not good enough? I don't know much about our younger players, but I was made to understand Vukovich was one of those with more potential. What does that say about how much the Academy will contribute to future 1st teams?

inconclusive at best... is he not good enough in general or not good enough for his position? unless we have a team of 11 strikers playing a game at a time, saying him is not good enough does not imply other 10 are also not good enough

D. what else do you know? :)

(yes, i watched him score a brace at academy games in the past)

brad
04-10-2012, 02:06 PM
Is it not at all possible that he's just not good enough?


I had friends who played in CSL. The jump from there to MLS is pretty big. I don't know personally because I didn't see enough of him but TFC management had plenty of time to look at him.


Of all the crap that Winter is as a manager and tactician, I see more potential in him looking at and understanding younger talent given that he did that at Ajax. If he was shit at that I would have fired at Ajax after a year. He was there for 4.


Pretty much sums up my first impression here. Winter and DeKlerk do have experience (4 years and 9 year respectively I believe) with youth development at Ajax, and I suspect they know what qualities to look for in a yound player to know whether or not they will make the jump.

pekduck
04-10-2012, 02:08 PM
I'll have a full story on this later today with explanation from Rongen, so look out for that.

As for Frings, I got the sense from talking to Aron today that he won't play Saturday (even though he said he could) and will take the extra precaution and give him another week.

That being said, you never know. Stranger things have happened with this team.

John


we may find out why soon

TFCBarrie
04-10-2012, 02:32 PM
If he wasn't good enough, is it safe to say a whole bunch of our academy are not good enough? I don't know much about our younger players, but I was made to understand Vukovich was one of those with more potential. What does that say about how much the Academy will contribute to future 1st teams?

Absolutely Nothing

dantdot
04-10-2012, 03:08 PM
Molinaro's story
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/10/mls_toronto_fc_stefan_vukovic/

pekduck
04-10-2012, 03:15 PM
^

good work Mr. Molinaro on delivering the piece ASAP. will wait on the full article tomorrow.



Rongen told me that the club felt Vukovic was not ready to make the jump to the senior team, and that they have two younger academy forwards that they want to give more playing time to. Keeping Vukovic around would have stood in the way of the development of those players, hence the decision to let him go.

brad
04-10-2012, 03:21 PM
^

good work Mr. Molinaro on delivering the piece ASAP. will wait on the full article tomorrow.

And...


“Stef was a talented player (but) he had some shortcomings,” Rongen said.

ouderwien
04-10-2012, 04:25 PM
I wonder if TFC gets any compensation for this

(EDIT) OH wait, I see that he was released, so definitely not.

rocker
04-10-2012, 04:57 PM
They knew the kid well... saw his strengths and his weaknesses more than anybody.
I remember Dichio saying he was really good but still had things to work on.
We'll judge this move in about 5-7 years....

I'm more curious about the other forwards who they want to give playing time to on the Academy.
That's the point of the academy... keep pushing forward. If we're just focusing on one player, then we'd be fucked. Gotta keep producing players year after year. One guy isn't going to make or break an academy.

PopePouri
04-10-2012, 05:58 PM
One is most likely Josh Hamilton.

jazzy
04-10-2012, 06:23 PM
I had friends who played in CSL. The jump from there to MLS is pretty big. I don't know personally because I didn't see enough of him but TFC management had plenty of time to look at him.

I saw him frequently and although really enjoyed his playing,...he ate up the high balls in the middle , but I was concerned on his defensive play and getting back, and overall quickness...but who am I?,...I'm not as astute as many on the board........he controls the ball off his head as well as anyone in the CSL.....again he did in some ways seem like a young Koevermanns........and I am really worried that personalities may be the cause of us losing future prospects......god I hope not

Roogsy
04-10-2012, 06:39 PM
Absolutely Nothing

Really? Sounds like we're back in ostrich mode.

Wingback6
04-10-2012, 07:49 PM
This thread is very humorous to me now. Hind-sight is 20/20 but honestly, despite not seeing much of the guy, I was a little surprised by the faith put in him.

'course, seems to be the way of forums, beautify some players, demonize others, happens all the time with voyaguers, the fact of the matter is, we don't know what they (the coaches) know, we don't get as much info, and all that, to think we can make the best judgments on these things is unrealistic.

To say a player has played well, is playing well, are easy, to suggest anything beyond the short term, not even Fergie would do that. And he's the best.

T-boy
04-11-2012, 09:54 AM
I can't help but think that releasing Vukovic is going to come back and bite TFC in the butt sometime in the future. Any striker who can score as much as he can, can sometimes do it at ANY level. He deserved a chance with the first team. And it goes to show how stubborn and set in stone Winter is that he doesn't want to give Vokuvic a try because "he doesn't fit our system".

We need to come back to this thread later this season, or next, and all say "I told you so" to Winter when Vokuvic scores a couple of goals against TFC!

Canary10
04-11-2012, 10:01 AM
^ And if we never hear from him again, we can say "nice job Winter."

Fort York Redcoat
04-11-2012, 10:03 AM
If he wasn't good enough, is it safe to say a whole bunch of our academy are not good enough? I don't know much about our younger players, but I was made to understand Vukovich was one of those with more potential. What does that say about how much the Academy will contribute to future 1st teams?

I don't know exactly what you heard but I heard he was scoring goals. Sometimes that's not enough.

Fort York Redcoat
04-11-2012, 10:05 AM
^ And if we never hear from him again, we can say "nice job Winter."

Good one.:smilielol5:

I'll hold my breath on that one.

Fort York Redcoat
04-11-2012, 10:16 AM
I can't help but think that releasing Vukovic is going to come back and bite TFC in the butt sometime in the future. Any striker who can score as much as he can, can sometimes do it at ANY level. He deserved a chance with the first team. And it goes to show how stubborn and set in stone Winter is that he doesn't want to give Vokuvic a try because "he doesn't fit our system".

We need to come back to this thread later this season, or next, and all say "I told you so" to Winter when Vokuvic scores a couple of goals against TFC!

Not saying it's impossible but damn, Labrocca's coming to town this weekend. If you want to worry...

Whoop
04-11-2012, 12:07 PM
More on story.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/11/mls_torontofc_stefan_vukovic/

yellowfellow
04-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Not saying it's impossible but damn, Labrocca's coming to town this weekend. If you want to worry...

Shit, #10 is in town...

jloome
04-11-2012, 12:35 PM
More on story.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2012/04/11/mls_torontofc_stefan_vukovic/

So, they judged him too one-dimensiona, but also a goal poacher ...qualifying that with 'it's not enough to be a goal poacher anymore'.

That may be true. We'll have to wait and see.

TFCBarrie
04-11-2012, 12:50 PM
The development (or lack thereof) of 1 player doesn't define a system Roogs. I understand we wanted this guy to be great, but just because our coaching staff doesn't like the details of his game doesn't mean others in the academy are doomed, they may not have the obvious raw talent of the Vukovic, but they could still development to a higher calibre than he may.

Roogsy
04-11-2012, 12:54 PM
The development (or lack thereof) of 1 player doesn't define a system Roogs. I understand we wanted this guy to be great, but just because our coaching staff doesn't like the details of his game doesn't mean others in the academy are doomed, they may not have the obvious raw talent of the Vukovic, but they could still development to a higher calibre than he may.

It's not just one player. We already lost two promising prospects last year. That's not to say the Academy will not produce first team players. I am sure they will. But I don't see much more than roleplayers and filler. Whatever success we have, will not be dependant on our academy, which contradicts the amount of hope some have placed on the academy. The chances of producing a truly impactful player diminishes with the dismissal or release of each top prospect. Not to say a hidden gem may not be found, it's just the chances are greatly reduced that it will happen.

Whoop
04-11-2012, 01:31 PM
I remember when NYRB started their academy and Dilly Duka was supposed to be a star.

It will be interesting to follow the path of Vukovic's career. If he doesn't make the jump to the Impact first team at 18 he's almost better off getting a scholarship to a NCAA school and see where that takes him.

If he was good as Aleman for example he wouldn't be in Montreal but in Europe, which might still be an option for him if the NCAA isn't.

People complain about hockey and basketball being brutal for teenagers in terms of assessment and pushing them to be pro, but soccer is definitely more "cutthroat" in terms of their assessments especially in the academy model of professional teams.

Vukovic has to make a big decision now. Does he pursue his dream of being a professional soccer player or go to school?

T-boy
04-11-2012, 03:55 PM
Vukovic has to make a big decision now. Does he pursue his dream of being a professional soccer player or go to school?

That's the big question for the kid, of course. I've known several guys that I went to school with - dropped out with big promise of a massive football contract back in England. One of them even signed for Sheffield United on a big contract, they changed management, and didn't like him, and didn't renew it. He could have had a big career, but he decided that he couldn't be bothered to sign for anybody else, he went back to University and never looked back at football ever again.

Unless Montreal show interest in him, he may just end up out of football and go and get a sensible office career!

Roogsy
04-11-2012, 04:03 PM
Hey, there's nothing wrong with sitting on your ass typing on an internet forum all day.

Although...my ass does seem to be getting bigger year by year... :noidea: