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View Full Version : MLS supporters value CCL over MLS Cup



ManUtd4ever
08-16-2011, 11:55 AM
It seems that supporters around the league share the same sentiments as the supporters on this forum regarding the importance of the CCL. In an online poll on MLSsoccer.com, the overwhelming majority consider the CCL Trophy to be more prestigious than the MLS Cup. Times are changing, and it's good to see.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/ccl/news/article/2011/08/16/or-mls-cup-or-champions-league




Thank you for voting!



MLS Cup 29.46%


CONCACAF Champions League 70.54%

Fort York Redcoat
08-16-2011, 12:13 PM
Okay. The supporters are in the know. Now the challenge is edumacating the casual fan.

It'll come with time.

Carts
08-16-2011, 12:19 PM
Okay. The supporters are in the know. Now the challenge is edumacating the casual fan.

It'll come with time.

Excellent point & bang on...

Perhaps this poll, from the league itself, is the first step...

Start tying in the CCL with the MLS Cup marketing in the playoffs - simple wording in articles, promotion, and by commentators can do this (especially to the American audience)...

Whoop
08-16-2011, 12:24 PM
CCL > Supporters Shield > MLS Cup

I think the big one is educating the casual fan that the Supporters Shield is greater than the MLS Cup.

Carts
08-16-2011, 12:30 PM
CCL > Supporters Shield > MLS Cup

I think the big one is educating the casual fan that the Supporters Shield is greater than the MLS Cup.

I'm more invested that the casual fan, but for us, I don't find the Supporters Sheild greater than the MLS Cup...

Doesn't matter if I like it or not (I'd love a single table, league champion etc of course) - but the 'MLS Champion' is decided via playoffs... Until that changes, I put that higher...

Whoop
08-16-2011, 12:31 PM
The playoffs would have more merit if it was something like a best of 5 or 7 format. But the fact that a team can be sub .500 and win the MLS Cup be crowned the champions of the MLS doesn't sit right.

NBS
08-16-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm more invested that the casual fan, but for us, I don't find the Supporters Sheild greater than the MLS Cup...

Doesn't matter if I like it or not (I'd love a single table, league champion etc of course) - but the 'MLS Champion' is decided via playoffs... Until that changes, I put that higher...

Agreed. I'd go a step further in saying I prefer playoffs myself.

DangerRed
08-16-2011, 12:43 PM
I still dream of a day with a single table and no playoffs, but I think I'll be waiting quite a while.

Carts
08-16-2011, 12:54 PM
The playoffs would have more merit if it was something like a best of 5 or 7 format. But the fact that a team can be sub .500 and win the MLS Cup be crowned the champions of the MLS doesn't sit right.

Its true - but in the end, its a tournament - if you qualify you have a chance to win it...

No different than any other tournament competition...

I'd love a single table and a champion crowned that way - its just right now, that's not the case...

I'd rather be MLS Champions - and to do that, you win the end of season MLS Cup Tournament (known to North America as 'The Playoffs')...

ManUtd4ever
08-16-2011, 01:01 PM
For better or worse, I think the MLS playoff format is here to stay, as it's a staple of professional sports in the US and Canada.

Whoop
08-16-2011, 01:03 PM
^^ Agreed. Though the more teams they let into the playoffs the more it devalues the Cup and the season.

ryan
08-16-2011, 01:05 PM
For better or worse, I think the MLS playoff format is here to stay, as it's a staple of professional sports in the US and Canada.

What absolutely has to change is the bloody 1-2-1-1 game format of the playoffs. Absolutely ridiculous.

2-2-2-1
1-1-1-1


THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. At the very least, make the semis 2 leg. If they insist on making the new wildcard play in stage or whatever it's called, 1 game, fine. But just having the quarters 2 legs is so dumb.

I'm not against the playoffs though, it is what it is.

CCL > MLS > Supporter Shield ...especially since the Shield means nothing to a Canadian club since there's no CCL berth attached to it for us.

ManUtd4ever
08-16-2011, 01:07 PM
What absolutely has to change is the bloody 1-2-1-1 game format of the playoffs. Absolutely ridiculous.

2-2-2-1
1-1-1-1


THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. At the very least, make the semis 2 leg. If they insist on making the new wildcard play in stage or whatever it's called, 1 game, fine. But just having the quarters 2 legs is so dumb.

I'm not against the playoffs though, it is what it is.

CCL > MLS > Supporter Shield ...especially since the Shield means nothing to a Canadian club since there's no CCL berth attached to it for us.

Agreed.

RedsYNWA
08-16-2011, 01:10 PM
1. Ccl
2. Mls
3. Canadian Championship
4. Supporter Shield

Carts
08-16-2011, 01:15 PM
What absolutely has to change is the bloody 1-2-1-1 game format of the playoffs. Absolutely ridiculous.

2-2-2-1
1-1-1-1


If the league stays with two conferences...

I think I'd go 2-2-1-1...

The first two matchups are aggregate as they are qualification matches to play in a Final...

Qualification - 2-legs...
Qualification - 2-legs...
East or West Title Final - 1-leg...
MLS Cup Championship Final - 1-leg...

With both MLS Cup participants making the CCL (I think, maybe not the Canadian teams I don't know) they can put that importance into the East/West Final marketing...

"...Tonights winner will move on to the Champions League, and earn the right to fight for the MLS Cup next week in..." blah blah blah

That might help to show the importance of the CCL to the casuals...

Knowing 'winning their conference' has more value that just 'advancing' in the playoffs might make it mean more over time - in other North American sports, advancing in the playoffs is all that winning your conference does...

Strikers
08-16-2011, 01:23 PM
The only way I see MLS going to single table is when they finally acquire NASL and make it MLS 2 with promotion and relegation. Then at the end of the season the top 8 teams would be seeded to play 2 leg playoffs for the MLS Cup.

That would be the best of both worlds. With MLS and MLS 2 I think they would be able to bring in all these cities that are intersted in MLS. Keeping MLS at 20 teams. And all others in MLS 2.

ryan
08-16-2011, 01:24 PM
That sounds decent too. I suppose I was too rigid in what it could be, but that works.

I guess what I was trying to say was you can't just throw 2 legs in the middle of a 1 game playoff chain!

You might be on to something there, but it gets hung up with a Canadian team not getting the berth any way but the NCC, which is wrong if you ask me.

If Honduras can earn 3 berths, Canada should have the right to earn 2. It would be rare as hell anyways.

JamboAl
08-16-2011, 01:27 PM
What absolutely has to change is the bloody 1-2-1-1 game format of the playoffs. Absolutely ridiculous.

2-2-2-1
1-1-1-1


THERE IS NO OTHER WAY. At the very least, make the semis 2 leg. If they insist on making the new wildcard play in stage or whatever it's called, 1 game, fine. But just having the quarters 2 legs is so dumb.

I'm not against the playoffs though, it is what it is.

CCL > MLS > Supporter Shield ...especially since the Shield means nothing to a Canadian club since there's no CCL berth attached to it for us.

True, but winning the MLS Cup also doesn't get us in the Champions League if we don't win the Voyageurs Cup.

Carts
08-16-2011, 01:31 PM
That sounds decent too. I suppose I was too rigid in what it could be, but that works.

I guess what I was trying to say was you can't just throw 2 legs in the middle of a 1 game playoff chain!

You might be on to something there, but it gets hung up with a Canadian team not getting the berth any way but the NCC, which is wrong if you ask me.

If Honduras can earn 3 berths, Canada should have the right to earn 2. It would be rare as hell anyways.

QFT!!!.........unfortunately :(

ManUtd4ever
08-16-2011, 01:38 PM
That sounds decent too. I suppose I was too rigid in what it could be, but that works.

I guess what I was trying to say was you can't just throw 2 legs in the middle of a 1 game playoff chain!

You might be on to something there, but it gets hung up with a Canadian team not getting the berth any way but the NCC, which is wrong if you ask me.

If Honduras can earn 3 berths, Canada should have the right to earn 2. It would be rare as hell anyways.

Unfortunately, as is the case in UEFA, I believe the FIFA rankings impact the number of CCL slots allocated to an individual country. In global football terms, we're but a minnow.

billyfly
08-16-2011, 01:38 PM
I approve this message

ryan
08-16-2011, 02:15 PM
Unfortunately, as is the case in UEFA, I believe the FIFA rankings impact the number of CCL slots allocated to an individual country. In global football terms, we're but a minnow.

That right there is some bullshit!

So if we qualify for WC2014 or maybe win GC2013 we can earn more CCL spots?

ryan
08-16-2011, 02:17 PM
True, but winning the MLS Cup also doesn't get us in the Champions League if we don't win the Voyageurs Cup.

Even though there's a clear logic flaw, I'd still rate the MLS Cup over the NCC title simply because the NCC title is just a 4 game event right now.

Although I do love watching the Reds win that thing, again and again. :scarf:

Fort York Redcoat
08-16-2011, 02:40 PM
This argument has been had. Even football supporters here in NA won't agree on MLS cup vs SS but that's a debate to have after the CCL is considered bigger than MLS cup to each and all.

nfitz
08-16-2011, 02:50 PM
Unfortunately, as is the case in UEFA, I believe the FIFA rankings impact the number of CCL slots allocated to an individual country.Not sure where you got that from. There is absolutely no relationship between FIFA rankings and the number of UEFA CCL spots a country gets. The number of spots in UEFA CCL is a function of the UEFA Association coefficient - which is based only on performance of club teams in CCL and Europa league games. There's a good explanation at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Association_coefficient_.28.22Lea gue_coefficient.22.29

TFC1154ever
08-16-2011, 03:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Football_History_%26_S tatistics

even better one, shows how you get points etc...

ManUtd4ever
08-16-2011, 03:15 PM
Sorry, I confused the FIFA ranking with the UEFA ranking. Thanks for clarifying.

ManUtd4ever
08-16-2011, 03:21 PM
Here is an excellent breakdown regarding the Champions League berths per country in CONCACAF...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%9312_CONCACAF_Champions_League

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-16-2011, 03:23 PM
out with the PLAYOFFS.....and have the MLS cup as a League cup....throughout the season....and have the final at the end of the season....as most leagues in the world have..

Yohan
08-16-2011, 03:44 PM
well, i suppose people can keep asking, but MLS isn't going to be an European copycat anytime soon...

__wowza
08-16-2011, 04:23 PM
im writing an article about this (i dont have a blog so im probably just going to post it on here) about things that wont change anytime soon in the MLS, why they won't, when they will and how they will.


personally, my thought on the playoffs go as followed:
- north americans love their playoffs
- we're a north american sports organization so we have to have them
- brings in extra revenue
- etc.


sounds simplistic, even naive, but i believe its absolutely true.

PopePouri
08-16-2011, 04:50 PM
Yep. I don't expect that the league will ever adopt a relegation/promotion system either, most likely it will grow to approximately to 30+ teams keeping a west vs. east conference playoff system like all other North American sports.

LittleOzzy
08-16-2011, 05:16 PM
Great results on the poll, but I'm guessing they are a little skewed with Seattle in CCL. Normally a poll involving them on MLSsoccer.com is decided quickly by their fans.

cougars732
08-16-2011, 05:26 PM
glad to see the CCL winning over fans. hopefully this leads to a one match final at a neutral location instead of the aggregate 2 leg final being used now. probably still 10 years away from even trying it though..

Yohan
08-16-2011, 05:31 PM
glad to see the CCL winning over fans. hopefully this leads to a one match final at a neutral location instead of the aggregate 2 leg final being used now. probably still 10 years away from even trying it though..
lol. what neutral CCL venues? it'll be held in US and Mexico only then... and mostly Mexican teams playing the finals

Beach_Red
08-16-2011, 08:00 PM
im writing an article about this (i dont have a blog so im probably just going to post it on here) about things that wont change anytime soon in the MLS, why they won't, when they will and how they will.


personally, my thought on the playoffs go as followed:
- north americans love their playoffs
- we're a north american sports organization so we have to have them
- brings in extra revenue
- etc.


sounds simplistic, even naive, but i believe its absolutely true.

With four major sports playoffs gives each one a chance to be in the spotlight for a few weeks and get the biggest TV ratings possible. North American sports didn't always have playoffs until TV ratings became so important.

So, yeah, now we love playoffs.

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-16-2011, 09:18 PM
you would never say they value it more...if you look at the empty stadiums in LA and Seattle tonight.....

MartinUtd
08-16-2011, 09:33 PM
glad to see the CCL winning over fans. hopefully this leads to a one match final at a neutral location instead of the aggregate 2 leg final being used now. probably still 10 years away from even trying it though..

This is an absolutely disastrous idea. Why would you ever want this here other than that's how UEFA does it?

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-16-2011, 09:44 PM
Im sure Once MLS are more competive and start winning the ccl.....It wont be long off till the USA start bidding to host the World Club Championships......would be amazing

jloome
08-16-2011, 10:11 PM
With four major sports playoffs gives each one a chance to be in the spotlight for a few weeks and get the biggest TV ratings possible. North American sports didn't always have playoffs until TV ratings became so important.

So, yeah, now we love playoffs.

Football isn't a normal North American sport, and most fans here still have euro attitudes towards the playoffs. Ives Galarcep told me I was nuts to think most people would prefer single table in MLS with the title going to the season winner; then he ran a poll on his site, and single table won conclusively.

flatpicker
08-16-2011, 10:21 PM
Im sure Once MLS are more competive and start winning the ccl.....It wont be long off till the USA start bidding to host the World Club Championships......would be amazing

I don't know why they don't already bid to host it.
I'm sure it would draw some good crowds in the U.S.

PAOK17
08-16-2011, 11:13 PM
Edit: Never mind, it has already been addressed.

Blowing Bubbles
08-16-2011, 11:29 PM
if there's no promotion/rel i don't get why some people get so butthurt over playoffs? i mean eurosnobbery surely not?

i think 10 of 18 teams is a joke, but a 4 or 6 team playoff would be great.

most of the western hemisphere has some form of playoff system in place.

Fort York Redcoat
08-17-2011, 06:51 AM
http://www.afunnystuff.com/forumpics/notagain.jpg

Yayz! The butthurt eurosnobs are back cause they prefer something different!

If you like playoffs and don't care for/like the rele/promo here in NA congratulations, you are with the majority of sports fans here in NA!!

CCL and it's growth in popularity as a tournament will challenge the NA mentality of the importance or worth of playoffs but the 2 can coexist for a loooooooooong time.

I've got an idea- How about we celebrate the tournament we enjoy and let those who prefer the other do the same. And those that appreciate both? Lucky you.:D

troy1982
08-17-2011, 09:13 PM
http://www.afunnystuff.com/forumpics/notagain.jpg

Yayz! The butthurt eurosnobs are back cause they prefer something different!

If you like playoffs and don't care for/like the rele/promo here in NA congratulations, you are with the majority of sports fans here in NA!!

CCL and it's growth in popularity as a tournament will challenge the NA mentality of the importance or worth of playoffs but the 2 can coexist for a loooooooooong time.

I've got an idea- How about we celebrate the tournament we enjoy and let those who prefer the other do the same. And those that appreciate both? Lucky you.:D

You do know to win the CCL you have to win a playoff.

brad
08-17-2011, 10:13 PM
Yep. I don't expect that the league will ever adopt a relegation/promotion system either, most likely it will grow to approximately to 30+ teams keeping a west vs. east conference playoff system like all other North American sports.

Promotion/Relegation will never happen because you have had owners pay big fees to buy into a top North American league. That's not my opinion btw but what is commonly cited as the main reason it will never happen here.

Yohan
08-17-2011, 10:37 PM
Promotion/Relegation will never happen because you have had owners pay big fees to buy into a top North American league. That's not my opinion btw but what is commonly cited as the main reason it will never happen here.
I don't think MLS generates enough revenue to support 30 teams that's either barely breaking even or losing money. maybe once big enough TV money comes in, and NASL/USL 2 teams have enough support to sustain a team at MLS level yes, but right now, I don't think relegation will happen. nor is it a good idea

SilverSamurai
08-17-2011, 11:53 PM
I personally care more about the CCL than the playoffs. The Supporters Shield is nice, but means nothing theres no grand prize, aka the MLS Cup.

The way I see it is winning the Supporters Shield, gives you the soap box, but winning the MLS Cup gives you more street cred. The CCL gives you a "rep" where you run with the big boys. lol
Wow never thought, futbol could be so gangsta. lol

But as long as we don't follow the Latin American model of Apertura and Clausura, I'm content with the status quo. It makes no sense to me to have 2 "seasons". Why not just 1, with a break...
Anyways... my 2 cents.

kodiakTFC
08-18-2011, 07:25 AM
Yep. I don't expect that the league will ever adopt a relegation/promotion system either, most likely it will grow to approximately to 30+ teams keeping a west vs. east conference playoff system like all other North American sports.

This is what I see happening. 30 teams, 2 conferences, 28 games schedule and then add in some inter-league stuff to make it a 36 game schedule.

Canada shouldn't get a 2nd CCL spot until we have over 10 teams and preferably our own league, not just a tiny tournament (that I love) in the NCC. What should happen is the Canadian spot being automatic rather than preliminary, thats some ole bs.

Fort York Redcoat
08-18-2011, 07:45 AM
You do know to win the CCL you have to win a playoff.

Yeeeessss. And the league is just one looooong playoff. :rolleyes:

james
08-22-2011, 01:14 PM
The only way I see MLS going to single table is when they finally acquire NASL and make it MLS 2 with promotion and relegation. Then at the end of the season the top 8 teams would be seeded to play 2 leg playoffs for the MLS Cup.

That would be the best of both worlds. With MLS and MLS 2 I think they would be able to bring in all these cities that are intersted in MLS. Keeping MLS at 20 teams. And all others in MLS 2.

i dont think youll be seeing that any time soon. MLS has been picking cities that has the money, big enough fan base to support a team and the money to build soccer stadiums within a year or so from joinning the league. Starting a whole second division would take years to get a bunch of teams in cities that have all those requirements. Not to mention MLS already has what 18 teams? how many more cities in US and Canada can really support an MLS team with 13,000+ fans a game? I can think of a few cities maybe, but not 12+ more teams at the moment to start a whole 2nd division and deffinitly not that many with money and stadiums ready to start tommorrow.

Youd also have teams like LA and NY, 2 flag ship teams in major cities for MLS that could get relegated and lose all there money and i dont think MLS would ever be willing to let that happen. It sounds good for the die hard soccer fans to have relegation and promotion, but to the casual fans they may not even understand that concept, or may drop off once a team gets relegated lossing the team money, its risky for many MLS teams that they would not be willing to take.

i think the only chance they have of a 2nd division is having MLS buy some NASL teams and letting new teams join and calling it MLS-2 but without a relegation and promotion. MLS 1 letting MLS 2 teams move up only once MLS-2 teams have propper stadiums and support big enough for MLS-1. But i think thats the closest thing youd get to a 2 tier league.

mastermixer
08-22-2011, 01:20 PM
i dont think youll be seeing that any time soon. MLS has been picking cities that has the money, big enough fan base to support a team and the money to build soccer stadiums within a year or so from joinning the league. Starting a whole second division would take years to get a bunch of teams in cities that have all those requirements. Not to mention MLS already has what 18 teams? how many more cities in US and Canada can really support an MLS team with 13,000+ fans a game? I can think of a few cities maybe, but not 12+ more teams at the moment to start a whole 2nd division and deffinitly not that many with money and stadiums ready to start tommorrow.

Youd also have teams like LA and NY, 2 flag ship teams in major cities for MLS that could get relegated and lose all there money and i dont think MLS would ever be willing to let that happen. It sounds good for the die hard soccer fans to have relegation and promotion, but to the casual fans they may not even understand that concept, or may drop off once a team gets relegated lossing the team money, its risky for many MLS teams that they would not be willing to take.

i think the only chance they have of a 2nd division is having MLS buy some NASL teams and letting new teams join and calling it MLS-2 but without a relegation and promotion. MLS 1 letting MLS 2 teams move up only once MLS-2 teams have propper stadiums and support big enough for MLS-1. But i think thats the closest thing youd get to a 2 tier league.

Agreed... Relegation will not happen until they get rid of the cap and allow big teams like NY and LA to buy themselves a spot in the first division. With parity it's too risky right now.

Yohan
08-22-2011, 02:39 PM
Agreed... Relegation will not happen until they get rid of the cap and allow big teams like NY and LA to buy themselves a spot in the first division. With parity it's too risky right now.
never going to happen

Oldtimer
08-22-2011, 03:33 PM
never going to happen

Agreed. No N. American league that has ever gotten a cap has ever relinquished it.

Germany tossed their cap in the 70's and England their "maximum wage" in the 60's, but those were very different situations from here in which you have players operating under CBAs.