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View Full Version : Post-Match: TFC 1 RSL 0 (You read that right)



TFC USA
08-13-2011, 08:31 PM
Damn right we won. Now we can try and win a road game against the horrible Fire next weekend.

Discuss. Kocic and Plata were awesome.

WhoAteAllthePie
08-13-2011, 08:35 PM
That last minute diving save was amazing... Plata was awesome.

kaos197O
08-13-2011, 08:43 PM
Holy crap. That was the most organized I've ever seen us be. Can't believe we just beat RSL. Credit, where credit is due. We played great tonight. Well done boys.

Frings played great as our cb because he is so positionally aware but I hope we soon adress the back line so he can get back to where he belongs.

Next season is looking good and it was really nice being at a sold out game again.

TFCmatty
08-13-2011, 08:51 PM
Great game.

As stated above, the most organized I've seen us play in forever. I still can't believe we nicked that goal and then held firm at the back.

Frings and Ecks were solid at the back, and I think JDG had a great game as well in the midfield. We actually looked threatening on the counter too. Well done to Plata, such a breath of fresh air. Kocic was a rock as well.

All in all a fabulous result for the boys. Winter knows what he's doing.

TFC07
08-13-2011, 08:57 PM
Great game, but Iro is still awful! He better not start CCL game this Thursday.

TheFallen
08-13-2011, 08:58 PM
wat happen to Ryan Johnson? was he injured? or jsut invisible?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-13-2011, 09:00 PM
injured id assume as he wasnt on bench or field

Nuvinho
08-13-2011, 09:00 PM
"Another save for Milos"

Ossington Mental Youth
08-13-2011, 09:01 PM
last 15 mins were a bit hairy, overall great effort from the boys. cant wait till we have a proper back line.

Detroit_TFC
08-13-2011, 09:04 PM
Kocic really came through for us. He's legit. My impression was that we did well. Absorbed a lot of pressure at the end. Impressed that A.W. went with a 3-4-3.

TFC07
08-13-2011, 09:05 PM
3-4-3 is our new system! :flare:

until teams figure out how to beat it.

Detroit_TFC
08-13-2011, 09:11 PM
I can't imagine that Frings was happy playing CB but he filled a big hole tonight. He's the kind of player than you can call on to do whatever is needed. We really need to find a quality CB. Top priority.

ag futbol
08-13-2011, 09:11 PM
That was a good game and one the team really needed to keep their confidence going.

The important thing was organized defending. Other than Iro coming over to needlessly double team a defender and nearly leaving his man open for a goal, I didn't see a large amount of fuckups.

ryan
08-13-2011, 09:16 PM
great showing all around. Borman had one of his best games as a red.

Kocic...just fantastic tonight.

Plata I thought was trying a bit too hard to be a hero and gave away possession too many times, but otherwise worked his ass off and deserved to get the winner.

With the Fire up next week, a match surely Winter will want to get revenge for after the game in Toronto, we could start to get on a roll.

Yohan
08-13-2011, 09:17 PM
Rsl still have not scored at bmo field in mls game. Ever

Red4ever
08-13-2011, 09:19 PM
The fucking walk to get in the stadium was unreal. I nearly got in a fight with two security guards with all the hoops they made us walk through. Had we not won I'd be irate. Should have been a draw. RSL deserved better, but we got a bit of luck and that's been in short supply around here this season.

Yohan
08-13-2011, 09:28 PM
The good:
-win at bmo
-platas work rate
-kocic being awesome
-harden and henry having good game defensively
-winter being on the money with subs again

The bad:
-the ref...
-tfc set piece defending. How many times rsl guy won headers on corners?
-jdg fail at passing
-iro

The ugly
-the dirty hippy
-that diving twat saborio. Im beginning to hate him as much as i used to hate shitlicker
-the douche in habs jersey inciting the crowd. I wanted to clotheline that fucker off the railing

Yohan
08-13-2011, 09:29 PM
Rsl deserved to get a point eh. Its football

Empirical
08-13-2011, 09:31 PM
we have 8 games left, in order to make the playoffs we must:

win atleast 5 or win 4 and tie the rest.

superstar1976
08-13-2011, 09:36 PM
Tonight was my first game of the season, had seats in sec 220 and went to sec 110 for the second half.

Had a great time. Didn't enjoy parking at fort york and walking in what seemed to be a maze (unsure why they blocked off the direct walk throught the CNE???).

Kocic played fantastic, and overally it was an enjoyable game.

I second wanting to close line that clown wearing a Habs Jersey. I wish I had no class so I could chuck my beer at him, at least thats how I felt, lol.

Yohan
08-13-2011, 09:37 PM
we have 8 games left, in order to make the playoffs we must:

win atleast 5 or win 4 and tie the rest.
Lets not wrap our heads around playoffs and take it one game at a time

I do hope this game is a statement game and the lads use the win to pump themselves for the rest of the season

Globetrotter
08-13-2011, 09:43 PM
Didn't rsl win 1-0 in season 1?

jazzy
08-13-2011, 09:47 PM
[QUOTE=Califax;1362272]The fucking walk to get in the stadium was unreal. I nearly got in a fight with two security guards with all the hoops they made us walk through.Had we not won I'd be irate.

ha I'm still looking for the tailgate.....walking around in circles inside the gates,...MLSE should be pissed the way it's fans get treated trying to get to the game....idiot security and all they are doing is getting ready for the ex.......how a paying customer can be treated so badly!

Anyhow fun game anyone notice how strong and aggressive Henry was in the later stages of the game,...great tackles!

sashavukelich
08-13-2011, 09:47 PM
RSL have never won at BMO field!!! May it long continue!

billyfly
08-13-2011, 09:49 PM
Fuck u Hab fan.

jazzy
08-13-2011, 09:58 PM
-the douche in habs jersey inciting the crowd. I wanted to clotheline that fucker off the railing

that was in front of me and never before have I wanted to start one up, drunken shithead......when my wife went to the washroom lo and behold she told the security to get rid of that clown or else!!..ha she ws pissed, and they told him to go back up to his seats....poor bastards wherever caveman was sitting...actually lost the game for a bit, shame :picard:

Empirical
08-13-2011, 09:58 PM
Lets not wrap our heads around playoffs and take it one game at a time

I do hope this game is a statement game and the lads use the win to pump themselves for the rest of the season

oh ok thanks, because my foresight as a fan effects anything?

were not on the team, were not getting ahead of ourselves or psychologically disadvantaging ourselves.

billyfly
08-13-2011, 10:01 PM
I am glad to see some of my Toronto breathen of the same mind when it comes to people wearing other city's team stuff to BMO.

Soccerpro
08-13-2011, 10:01 PM
Great win, but a fortunate one. RSL had a lot of chances.

But I guess TFC was due to get some luck finally.

Keyman
08-13-2011, 10:07 PM
My compliments to the team, they've played very well yah.

mowe
08-13-2011, 10:07 PM
Great win, I don't care about anything else.

TFC victories come few and far between, and we beat a really good RSL team! I'm just enjoying the moment right now.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-13-2011, 10:08 PM
we fought for it too, only had a few defensive lapses that RSL couldnt capitalize on. We deserved and got the win.

DaBandit
08-13-2011, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE=Califax;1362272]The fucking walk to get in the stadium was unreal. I nearly got in a fight with two security guards with all the hoops they made us walk through.Had we not won I'd be irate.

ha I'm still looking for the tailgate.....walking around in circles inside the gates,...MLSE should be pissed the way it's fans get treated trying to get to the game....idiot security and all they are doing is getting ready for the ex.......how a paying customer can be treated so badly!

Anyhow fun game anyone notice how strong and aggressive Henry was in the later stages of the game,...great tackles!




Ya, other then that one bad touch, where he tried to clear it and shanked it out for a corner, he looked really good.. Other then that one game, I think it was againt RSL on the road where he got exposed often, he's been impressive. Looks like he has a place in this league.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-13-2011, 10:15 PM
outside of the last 15 mins id like to hear (prob in a separate thread) what people thought we did wrong (i honestly cant think of anything).

Also note the change in formation (not the first time).
Could it be that our supposedly clueless coach is teaching our team the basics of walking (4-3-3) before he teaches them to run (3-4-3 everything else)?

DaBandit
08-13-2011, 10:16 PM
Great win, I don't care about anything else.

TFC victories come few and far between, and we beat a really good RSL team! I'm just enjoying the moment right now.

I second this!! :)

ManUtd4ever
08-13-2011, 10:18 PM
Solid performance overall for TFC tonight except for a couple of mistakes on the backline. It was a fairly even match in terms of chances, but Plata and Kocic were the difference tonight. Victory at last.

Detroit_TFC
08-13-2011, 10:19 PM
Koevermans was never mentioned during the broadcast. Was he really that invisible tonight? I was surprised when he got subbed out, I didn't know he was on the pitch.

sully
08-13-2011, 10:21 PM
Koevermans was never mentioned during the broadcast. Was he really that invisible tonight? I was surprised when he got subbed out, I didn't know he was on the pitch.

For the good play overall, he really didn't get much service to do anything .

TFC07
08-13-2011, 10:21 PM
Koevermans was never mentioned during the broadcast. Was he really that invisible tonight? I was surprised when he got subbed out, I didn't know he was on the pitch.

He only had one shot which was early in the game (which he was mentioned during the broadcast), but after that he was invisible.

Pookie
08-13-2011, 10:23 PM
Match was excellent. Chances for both sides and quality performances all around.

On the down side, we come from north of the city and the parking around BMO was ridiculous. Combined with that walk through the maze and we essentially made our decision to avoid buying tickets for the CCL game on the 24th.

This from a guy that drove 10 hours in the rain to see TFC in New England. The hassles we put up with to support the team really have got to be looked at. I know parking isn't necessarily a MLSE issue. That said, it sure isn't easy to want to spend my money on seeing games live and in person.

Hopefully someone is taking note.

ryan
08-13-2011, 10:23 PM
He only had one shot which was early in the game (which he was mentioned during the broadcast), but after that he was invisible.

Yep.

Many poorly played crosses and corners tonight though. TFC seemingly has a bad habit of playing them too long.

DaBandit
08-13-2011, 10:24 PM
outside of the last 15 mins id like to hear (prob in a separate thread) what people thought we did wrong (i honestly cant think of anything).

Also note the change in formation (not the first time).
Could it be that our supposedly clueless coach is teaching our team the basics of walking (4-3-3) before he teaches them to run (3-4-3 everything else)?

my only complaint is that I don't like seeing Frings at CB, takes away so much from what he can do for the team when not playing his usual role. I understand the reason, cuz our CB's are generally horrible, but the fact we are so weak their really irks me.. anyways I think your right I didn't see too much wrong.

nickio
08-13-2011, 10:31 PM
my only complaint is that I don't like seeing Frings at CB, takes away so much from what he can do for the team when not playing his usual role. I understand the reason, cuz our CB's are generally horrible, but the fact we are so weak their really irks me.. anyways I think your right I didn't see too much wrong.

I agree- don't really like seeing Frings in CB. But he is here to help us win, and he's doing his job.

dupont
08-13-2011, 10:31 PM
We didn't dominate them or anything but honestly Salt Lake is a very good team. To beat them in a season like we've had really shows what good progress has been made. I'm already looking forward to next season.

PopePouri
08-13-2011, 10:32 PM
outside of the last 15 mins id like to hear (prob in a separate thread) what people thought we did wrong (i honestly cant think of anything).

Also note the change in formation (not the first time).
Could it be that our supposedly clueless coach is teaching our team the basics of walking (4-3-3) before he teaches them to run (3-4-3 everything else)?

Or that our supposed clueless coach adapted to the style of play that RSL utilized.

Even subbing Harden in looked like a genius move.

Keyman
08-13-2011, 10:38 PM
I think Frings playing in a more defensive role (he wasn't a CB) is only temporary.

For the moment, I don't really mind it. We've proven repeatedly that we can score, and that our Achilles heel is our backline. It would definitely be nice to have Frings in a more central role, playing as a midfield general, but he brings so much equanimity to our defence that it's difficult to criticize Winter for placing him there.

rocker
08-13-2011, 10:39 PM
yeah, we didn't dominate. But would anyone really expect us to dominate RSL? It doesn't happen that often.

But I must say, I feel vindicated after taking heat in the pre-game thread for suggesting that RSL *would not* kick our asses. ;) The stats didn't lie -- BMO was a place of close matches this year and RSL barely scores 1 goal a game on the road. The chances of a 3-0 loss, as some suggested, were miniscule according to the stats.
I didn't expect TFC to win but said it would be a close, low scoring game. I was fuckin right! :)

nickio
08-13-2011, 10:43 PM
It was also clear just how out of shape Koevermans and JDG are. I'm looking forward to seeing DK after a proper pre-season.

menefreghista
08-13-2011, 10:44 PM
we have 8 games left, in order to make the playoffs we must:

win atleast 5 or win 4 and tie the rest.

That's not good enough. It will probably take at least 7 wins.

Its pretty much a foregone conclusion that there will be no playoffs this year.

That being said if TFC continues to play like they did today there is hope for the future of this club. And I actually have some optimism for the CCL now.


It was also clear just how out of shape Koevermans and JDG are. I'm looking forward to seeing DK after a proper pre-season.

How long should it take a professional athlete to get in shape? I'm asking this question seriously. Is a month and a half not sufficient time?

Yohan
08-13-2011, 10:44 PM
Didn't rsl win 1-0 in season 1?

Apparently it was a nil nil at bmo

Flint
08-13-2011, 10:48 PM
That's the fifth straight game with a result. And that makes me happy. Next year is going to be a lot easier on our nerves.

DaBandit
08-13-2011, 10:49 PM
I think Frings playing in a more defensive role (he wasn't a CB) is only temporary.

For the moment, I don't really mind it. We've proven repeatedly that we can score, and that our Achilles heel is our backline. It would definitely be nice to have Frings in a more central role, playing as a midfield general, but he brings so much equanimity to our defence that it's difficult to criticize Winter for placing him there.

so what was he?

I agree hard to criticize the decision. He most certainly has the head for the position, positionally he is fantastic. But i find he has trouble with big target men, and he missed on a few tackles tonight. Either way the move as our roster stands right now, without knowing how Robinson may fit in, frings gives us the best chance to win.

Hustle
08-13-2011, 10:51 PM
I am in the zone

Yohan
08-13-2011, 10:54 PM
Winters decision to start kocic twice vs real esteli paid big dividends tonight. By no means i think winter is a genius but hes showing signs that hes not completely a dum dum when it comes to coaching. Frei was so happy for kocic getting a clean sheet

Whoop
08-13-2011, 11:10 PM
One of the better games of the season by TFC no doubt.

Was really impressed with Kocic tonight and he deservedly got the man of the match.

SKB
08-13-2011, 11:11 PM
The best two way performance I have seem from TFC, offensively created a lot of chances. Defensively good shape and very tight at the back. Very well done. I liked Borman at the outside MF position. Attack wise he give us more speed and options. I always felt he was a natural midfielder but not a defender. We could have better service to Kourverman we need to work on the crosses.

Very attractive and exciting football tonight. We are improving and headed in the right direction.

Well done boys!

TFCtoMUFC
08-13-2011, 11:13 PM
The Good:
-Kocic
-Frings at CB (don't do it again though)
-Henry's clutch tackles
-Plata

The Bad
-Iro
-Borman's runs (had 3 levels of bad, one he was out of position, two he left Iro alone on his side, three DeGuzman neglected to slide over when Borman moved up)

The Ugly:
-the puking chick

PopePouri
08-13-2011, 11:17 PM
I think Winter is grooming Stinson for the RB position. This is the second time he's played on the right.

Detroit_TFC
08-13-2011, 11:23 PM
I think A.W. placed Frings in the back both to cover our leaky defense but also to help out Kocic. Watch Kocic's post game comments, he talks about how important it was to have Frings there.

It's not a substitute for having the defense we need but it was the right thing to do tonight.

UltraSuperMegaMo
08-13-2011, 11:25 PM
Always glad to see TFC win. I thought the game started brightly, but had a few dull patches.

rocker
08-13-2011, 11:30 PM
another positive tonight: Vancouver lost 4-0. (ya, to DC, which isn't good, but it's always good to see Vancouver lose).

habstfc
08-13-2011, 11:30 PM
Good entertaining game, I thought everyone played well. Iro had a few shaky moments but overall thought he was good. Plata again comes through for us. I am really impressed with that stinson kid.

ArmenJBX
08-13-2011, 11:32 PM
I got to hang out in the Press room today, and met some of the players as well as Aron Winter and Bob de Klerk.

Let me just tell you, Winter is the nicest guy in the world and Bob de Klerk is awesome too. I got a chance to interview Stinson and Plata and both were really friendly. All in all, I got to see a new perspective on TFC and I really enjoyed it there.

Look for the post-game report at RedNationOnline!

__wowza
08-13-2011, 11:39 PM
harden made me eat my words tonight, he really did.
he was pretty solid and every time he lost a ball he worked his ass off to get it back.

what else to say that hasnt been said by everyone else on here?

Azerban
08-14-2011, 12:29 AM
I got to hang out in the Press room today, and met some of the players as well as Aron Winter and Bob de Klerk.

Let me just tell you, Winter is the nicest guy in the world and Bob de Klerk is awesome too. I got a chance to interview Stinson and Plata and both were really friendly. All in all, I got to see a new perspective on TFC and I really enjoyed it there.

Look for the post-game report at RedNationOnline!

no thanks

Yohan
08-14-2011, 12:29 AM
Perisevic does another good thing, throwing Rimando just off a little so that Plata can squeeze that shot in

ArmenJBX
08-14-2011, 12:34 AM
no thanks

LOL alright there.

TFC USA
08-14-2011, 12:43 AM
I'm going to be that guy and say this team is tricking me.

After 4 years of promising spurts of play in the 1st half of the season, we collapsed in the summer and were left wondering "what if" at the end of October once we pissed away playoff spots.

5th year - We look like the most impotent team on the land and now we're playing much better now that playoffs are an extreme longshot.

Winter is messing with your minds!!! :D

Azerban
08-14-2011, 12:47 AM
LOL alright there.

no prob

Ossington Mental Youth
08-14-2011, 01:30 AM
my only complaint is that I don't like seeing Frings at CB, takes away so much from what he can do for the team when not playing his usual role. I understand the reason, cuz our CB's are generally horrible, but the fact we are so weak their really irks me.. anyways I think your right I didn't see too much wrong.

yeah you and me both, Winter said he played him in between but ill be honest it looked like he was playing CB. At this point ill be into sacraficing his genius work (provided hes ok with it) to get us through the rest of the season. I have no doubt Mariner is working on finding us some proper CBs.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-14-2011, 01:31 AM
harden made me eat my words tonight, he really did.
he was pretty solid and every time he lost a ball he worked his ass off to get it back.

what else to say that hasnt been said by everyone else on here?

Kid never lacks heart just talent, did well tonight tho

Ossington Mental Youth
08-14-2011, 01:32 AM
I'm going to be that guy and say this team is tricking me.

After 4 years of promising spurts of play in the 1st half of the season, we collapsed in the summer and were left wondering "what if" at the end of October once we pissed away playoff spots.

5th year - We look like the most impotent team on the land and now we're playing much better now that playoffs are an extreme longshot.

Winter is messing with your minds!!! :D

havent looked so bad after transfers were made. i know its an argument and itll really show next season but im pretty satisfied with it right now

nickio
08-14-2011, 02:45 AM
Winter does deserve some credit for having tactical surprises.

-Tricked RSL with formation
-Tricked RSL with our Back line
-Tricked RSL with DK starting, and really making it look like he wasn't going to

It really looked like the whole picture caught RSL off guard.

Also give him credit for giving a chance for Iro to regain his confidence by starting him in a slightly safer position. They've done it fery vell. Big compliment, And yah- now, letting Kocic play in R.Esteli seems like a very smart idea.

nickio
08-14-2011, 02:49 AM
havent looked so bad after transfers were made. i know its an argument and itll really show next season but im pretty satisfied with it right now

With the same coaches, and freeing up our burdened injury filled salary cap- there is a lot to be optimistic about. Especially if they part with JDG for another strong DP.

Wombat
08-14-2011, 02:54 AM
We didn't dominate them or anything but honestly Salt Lake is a very good team. To beat them in a season like we've had really shows what good progress has been made. I'm already looking forward to next season.

Spoken like a true Toronto sports fan! Next seaoson, we're really gonna do something - LOL!

It takes something special to be a Leafs, Raptors, Jays, Argos & TFC fan, thats for damn sure. I do have a sneaking feeling though that the Reds may be the ones to break the pattern and give us a post-season play-off run that gets the long-suffering Toronto sports fans excited

nickio
08-14-2011, 02:59 AM
give us a post-season play-off run
... what's that?:confused:

TFCRegina
08-14-2011, 03:04 AM
Awesome.

Wombat
08-14-2011, 03:10 AM
What a game....
Great support tonight. I sit high in sec 225 and can't remember U sector & North End Elite putting in a better shift - well done boys. You pumped up the volume & made it fun for the average joe in the stands and drove the players on to a fantastic perfomance.
One of my favourite TFC games ever - Real SL are a good a side, we kept them at bay with great individual performances throughout the team. Plata's energy was amazing (feel sorry for the guy that he didnt win man-of-the-match), Frings showed his class, and nobody's mentioned Eckersley yet - what a game! Great full back perfomance. Good interchanges & understanding with Frings playing CB, and got some powerful tackles in. I'd love to see Eckersley be a part of this team for the next few years. Great night all round. Props to the players and the fans.

Shakes McQueen
08-14-2011, 03:18 AM
Great game. 3-4-3 is a bold formation to go with, and so I understand why Winter went with Frings as CB.

Kocic is well deserved man of the match.

- Scott

J .
08-14-2011, 03:56 AM
Frings controlled the backline, the GOLTV feed was showing him explaing things to the defenders when they were walking up the pitch. He is also the first option to past out of the back too, something the team has been missing as the rest of our backline cant perform that role.

I think Frings should stay there until they bring someone in who can be the CB Frings so we can have DM Frings play in front of him. His ability as a defender is ok, but his commanding prescence did a lot of good.

The Iro hate this match is misplaced and just a carry over from other poor matches. Dont hate just to hate. Everyone, even Lord Frings made mistakes.

I still wonder how long it will be until they get in a someone who can provide service to our strikers. If they have Plata or Johnson on the left, they need someone who can put a cross in with consistency, if I had to pick something I disliked, its the fact our team cant cross.

DichioTFC
08-14-2011, 04:06 AM
^^ lol come to RPB board, compliment USec and NEE. Well done.

Random thoughts...

1-nil to the Toronto. Like everyone else said, it was a lucky result, but credit to the boys, they worked their ass off to get it. Can we all agree that was the best 90' put in by the XI all season?

Frings was excellent at CB. Wanted to see him there from the beginning, considering how deep we are a DM. If he's okay playing the season out at CB, we should keep him there.

Koevermans was invisible this game, but that's the player he's probably going to be - hot one night, cold the next. Even in the games where his contribution was celebrated, its tough to argue he was MOTM.

I'm a Habs fan, but that douche in the Habs jersey was pissing me off. Wanted to kick his Cammaleri-ass back to Quebec.

Plata is lucky he has a finishing touch, because he can be extremely frustrating at times. Ball hog, impatient, trying to do too much despite being being closely marked... he probably wont mature by the end of the season, but hopefully, for his sake, he becomes more mature back in Ecuador.

Kocic did well, but lets not anoint him as a saviour yet. 9 times out of 10, the RSL strikers put one (or more) past him. More luck and lack of opponent finishing touch than anything else.

I am a huge Marosevic fan. He was all over the pitch tonight, it was his performance that made Koevermans expendable this evening. Stinson did better than expected as well.

To make the playoffs, we would need to win 8 / 8 to be guaranteed, 7 / 8 to have a good shot, 6 / 8 to have any chance. Anything less and forget it. Looking at TFC schedule, if we play as well as we did today, we should win 5 (Fire, SJ, Chivas, NYRB, NER). The other three (@Crew, vs.Rapids, @Philly) could make the season. Find a way to win two, and IMO we're in. Bottom line, with a lot of luck and a crazy winning streak, we could make the playoffs. Optimism bandwagon starts here.

DichioTFC
08-14-2011, 04:11 AM
Frings controlled the backline, the GOLTV feed was showing him explaing things to the defenders when they were walking up the pitch. He is also the first option to past out of the back too, something the team has been missing as the rest of our backline cant perform that role.

I think Frings should stay there until they bring someone in who can be the CB Frings so we can have DM Frings play in front of him. His ability as a defender is ok, but his commanding prescence did a lot of good.

The Iro hate this match is misplaced and just a carry over from other poor matches. Dont hate just to hate. Everyone, even Lord Frings made mistakes.

I still wonder how long it will be until they get in a someone who can provide service to our strikers. If they have Plata or Johnson on the left, they need someone who can put a cross in with consistency, if I had to pick something I disliked, its the fact our team cant cross.

Agree on all points. Iro met his expectations this match. Was surprised the Englishman and German played well alongside one another ;) For the Iro-haters, he barely played at his former club and is a regular starter here - that in itself speaks volumes about what we should expect from Iro.

I honestly can't remember the last time this team has hit a successful cross from the wing. Best bet might not be to go for goal from crosses, but play it back to Plata or Johnson for a 20-25 yard strike on net.

DichioTFC
08-14-2011, 05:31 AM
sidenote: Maicon Santos scored for FCD tonight in the '16. Pure poacher goal.

TtDW99UJsRo

PopePouri
08-14-2011, 05:49 AM
sidenote: Maicon Santos scored for FCD tonight in the '16. Pure poacher goal.

TtDW99UJsRo

Happy for him. Hope he goes on to score plenty more.

nickio
08-14-2011, 06:05 AM
Happy for him. Hope he goes on to score plenty more.

so long as it's not against TFC.

nickio
08-14-2011, 06:23 AM
Jason Kreis on TFC:

“They haven’t changed anything from their last two matches. We looked at the D.C. match and we evaluate that and go over that, show our players that formation, and Mr. Winter threw us for a little surprise tonight as he came out in a 3-4-3. I think tactically that caused us a few problems for us in the first half, but at halftime we talked about it, and I think we sorted it out and, in my opinion again, controlled the match.”

JDG further on Tactics:

“We also knew coming into this game we knew Real Salt Lake was one of the better teams, probably the best team in the league that plays good football with a diamond in the middle and two guys up front. Our approach was to have three guys in the center covering the two, three against two in the back. This allowed Stinson and Borman to put pressure on there full backs whenever they do overlap because they are a team that likes to bring numbers forward. Then we had (Joao) Plata and Peri (Marosevic) who are normally wingers but this time were more tucked in the middle in the midfield. It was pretty much man to man throughout the midfield and everyone had to stay on top of that.”

Chevy
08-14-2011, 07:03 AM
Great game. 3-4-3 is a bold formation to go with, and so I understand why Winter went with Frings as CB.

Kocic is well deserved man of the match.

- Scott

TFC blanks Salt Lake playing three at the back, one of whom is Andy Iro.

Has someone called hell to see what the weather's like down there?

Heathen
08-14-2011, 08:00 AM
That's what we've been waiting for :) great performance, especially the first half, against a very good MLS team. Previously I thought putting Frings at centre-back was a waste but I think it was what Iro needed after the DC debacle. Of the rest only Koevermans didnt was surprised and impressed with Borman yesterday.

London
08-14-2011, 08:03 AM
TFC is getting better , could this be the year they walk into crew stadium and get a win???

that would make me smile

Yohan
08-14-2011, 08:06 AM
Surprising that people are split on bormans performance... i guess he had a jekyl and hyde like game

Detroit_TFC
08-14-2011, 08:45 AM
Lots of food for thought coming out of this game. There were times this season that the players didn't seem know what the round thing was for. Last night they played a new formation changed on game day with a key center player in a position he's never played at, all as part of a tactical adjustment to disrupt a superior opponent (at least for some of the game). That seems like a bit of progress to me.

Pookie
08-14-2011, 08:46 AM
Folks that are continually calling out certain players while praising others would do well to visit "the Chalkboard" for a statistical analysis of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-08-13-toronto-fc-vs-real-salt-lake/chalkboard

Compare a fan favourite like Eckersley with our next whipping boy candidate Iro and you'll see some interesting numbers.

For example, Iro completed 20 of 27 passes. Ecks, 18 of 34.

Frings made 7 "Recoveries" and 2 "Clearances". Iro 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances"

Not saying that Iro outplayed either of them. Simply that the "hate" for this guy is best tempered with an overall picture vs a moment in a game. Otherwise, we'll chase another potentially decent player out of our line up who may go on to better things.

Detroit_TFC
08-14-2011, 08:59 AM
That's the first time I've looked at the Chalkboard. Fantastic! I'd be curious to know what people think of Borman's numbers. Very busy but I wonder, maybe too busy (not efficient)?

billyfly
08-14-2011, 09:07 AM
I just wanna say F U again to the Hab jersey guy.

Azerban
08-14-2011, 09:17 AM
Folks that are continually calling out certain players while praising others would do well to visit "the Chalkboard" for a statistical analysis of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-08-13-toronto-fc-vs-real-salt-lake/chalkboard

Compare a fan favourite like Eckersley with our next whipping boy candidate Iro and you'll see some interesting numbers.

For example, Iro completed 20 of 27 passes. Ecks, 18 of 34.

Frings made 7 "Recoveries" and 2 "Clearances". Iro 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances"

Not saying that Iro outplayed either of them. Simply that the "hate" for this guy is best tempered with an overall picture vs a moment in a game. Otherwise, we'll chase another potentially decent player out of our line up who may go on to better things.

another fun stat is that iro gave up three penalty kicks in three games

but he had 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances" last night, so i guess it's ok

menefreghista
08-14-2011, 09:21 AM
I just wanna say F U again to the Hab jersey guy.

So did this guy join in all the chants that mention the word Toronto? Toronto til I die...

Gazza
08-14-2011, 09:21 AM
I rip JDG when he plays poorly (which is more times than not for TFC) so i'll give him the praise he's due after last night's performance.

His long balls were still very far off of the mark, but he made up for it with his positioning and tenacity. Maybe he's healing? Who knows? But hopefully we see more of that. Well done.

billyfly
08-14-2011, 09:22 AM
He was to busy singing Ole, ole, ole

Pookie
08-14-2011, 09:41 AM
another fun stat is that iro gave up three penalty kicks in three games

but he had 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances" last night, so i guess it's ok

well, another fun stat is that those were really his first games of the season and over that stretch he flew 22 hours across 3 time zones and sat on buses for 4 hours..

so I guess it's ok to write him off then. Lord knows you only get one chance with the "knowledgeable Toronto sports fan"

DangerRed
08-14-2011, 09:44 AM
"Another save for Milos"
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiefVRFRE90SivoAI-2fZMuQz0oGa23ZeG5BpmMfDgwQrk5PvAfQ (http://images.google.com/imgres?q=another+game+for+milos&hl=en&gbv=2&biw=1366&bih=585&tbm=isch&tbnid=0sFsd9oUlbTwFM:&imgrefurl=http://www.gifsoup.com/view/2016443/another-game-for-milos.html&docid=uX1neKy_AL5zBM&w=320&h=240&ei=u95HTs7ZGoWusQLX2cTvBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=370&vpy=238&dur=642&hovh=192&hovw=256&tx=134&ty=111&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=177&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0)

In all seriousness, they played very well and we played a bit better. I think Peri could've finished that ball in the first half (point-blank shot right at the keeper) but then again they could've finished an even easier goal also in the first.

Bottom line, sweet three points against a tough opponent.

Also happy with Winter's flexibility to switch to 3-4-3.

Just repeat this 8 more times at least and we're in the playoffs. :D

redcard
08-14-2011, 09:46 AM
Match was excellent. Chances for both sides and quality performances all around.

On the down side, we come from north of the city and the parking around BMO was ridiculous. Combined with that walk through the maze and we essentially made our decision to avoid buying tickets for the CCL game on the 24th.

This from a guy that drove 10 hours in the rain to see TFC in New England. The hassles we put up with to support the team really have got to be looked at. I know parking isn't necessarily a MLSE issue. That said, it sure isn't easy to want to spend my money on seeing games live and in person.

Hopefully someone is taking note.

TTC it will save you these headaches!

AmherstNY_TFC
08-14-2011, 09:57 AM
I wouldn't call the position Frings is playing "CB." It seems it should be called "HH" for "Hand Holder" for Iro. He might have been an HH for Kocic as well. Frings also is a leader who makes his teammates accountable. After Olave missed a free header of a corner in injury time, Frings walked 30 yards up the pitch to have a go at Martina for not tracking back to mark his man.

It was also nice to look down at the bench and not say, "Oh no! They're bringing ______ on?" Seeing a bench of Henry, Dunfield, Morgan, Harden, and others makes me more confident that someone can come off the bench and be useful.

A TFC win and no construction on the QEW makes a nice drive back to the States.

AL-MO
08-14-2011, 09:57 AM
Where are all the people who were ready to throw themselves off a bridge after the DC game?

AL-MO
08-14-2011, 10:00 AM
If anyone has any pics/video from our post game fun @ Gate 3 please post them up in the multimedia section.

Thanks.

Carts
08-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Folks that are continually calling out certain players while praising others would do well to visit "the Chalkboard" for a statistical analysis of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-08-13-toronto-fc-vs-real-salt-lake/chalkboard

Compare a fan favourite like Eckersley with our next whipping boy candidate Iro and you'll see some interesting numbers.

For example, Iro completed 20 of 27 passes. Ecks, 18 of 34.

Frings made 7 "Recoveries" and 2 "Clearances". Iro 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances"

Not saying that Iro outplayed either of them. Simply that the "hate" for this guy is best tempered with an overall picture vs a moment in a game. Otherwise, we'll chase another potentially decent player out of our line up who may go on to better things.

In many sports the bolded statement is something all fans should consider - in a sport like football, where 1-goal is often the difference, that "moment in a game" is often the difference between a win and a loss...

Stats are numbers and nothing less - a win is a win and a loss is a loss...

I don't care if a guy completes 100% of his passes, recovers 300 balls, but makes that one mistake game in and game out that causes the team to not win...

That's what matters...

Iro is making MAJOR MISTAKES - it must be addressed...

Last night, the excellent play by the rest of the team stopped that f'up from costing us a great win...

Carts
08-14-2011, 10:05 AM
Where are all the people who were ready to throw themselves off a bridge after the DC game?

Maybe they actually jumped off the bridge and are at the bottom of the river...??? :D

Pigfynn
08-14-2011, 10:12 AM
^ Now that's optimism.

Pookie
08-14-2011, 10:27 AM
Iro is making MAJOR MISTAKES - it must be addressed...

Last night, the excellent play by the rest of the team stopped that f'up from costing us a great win...

I can't figure out if you are going for sensationalism on purpose or simply want to rethink your point.

RSL had quite a few off the woodwork, had a few others just miss and not all of them are on Iro. Any one of those shots, which typically result from a failure to close down or losing a 1 v 1 battle could have cost the team. By the sheer grace of physics, the ball didn't have the trajectory to find the back of the net. That's it.

Every player makes mistakes. Whether they end up costing the team is usually down to good fortune.

Further we have a tendency to blame the last guy near the play and forget that it was a turnover in mid-field or a poor distribution decision that led to the subsequent build up.

Or I guess since every Toronto team needs someone to run out of town, Iro just happens to be the next in line because he made some mistakes in his first few MLS games.

Super Cereal
08-14-2011, 10:34 AM
another fun stat is that iro gave up three penalty kicks in three games

How many last night? What, none? Then why does our stupid fanbase continuously bring it up?

Gazza
08-14-2011, 10:44 AM
So you were more than happy to run our best player ever out of town yet it's sensationalism to be upset at a defender who's been our worst player on the field in probably 75% of the games he's played for us while costing us points?

I didn't know much about him before he came here, but Iro is tough to watch, and i can't see how he could possibly turn his game around to instill confidence in the back-line when he's on the field.


I can't figure out if you are going for sensationalism on purpose or simply want to rethink your point.

RSL had quite a few off the woodwork, had a few others just miss and not all of them are on Iro. Any one of those shots, which typically result from a failure to close down or losing a 1 v 1 battle could have cost the team. By the sheer grace of physics, the ball didn't have the trajectory to find the back of the net. That's it.

Every player makes mistakes. Whether they end up costing the team is usually down to good fortune.

Further we have a tendency to blame the last guy near the play and forget that it was a turnover in mid-field or a poor distribution decision that led to the subsequent build up.

Or I guess since every Toronto team needs someone to run out of town, Iro just happens to be the next in line because he made some mistakes in his first few MLS games.

Carts
08-14-2011, 10:48 AM
I can't figure out if you are going for sensationalism on purpose or simply want to rethink your point.

RSL had quite a few off the woodwork, had a few others just miss and not all of them are on Iro. Any one of those shots, which typically result from a failure to close down or losing a 1 v 1 battle could have cost the team. By the sheer grace of physics, the ball didn't have the trajectory to find the back of the net. That's it.

Every player makes mistakes. Whether they end up costing the team is usually down to good fortune.

Further we have a tendency to blame the last guy near the play and forget that it was a turnover in mid-field or a poor distribution decision that led to the subsequent build up.

Or I guess since every Toronto team needs someone to run out of town, Iro just happens to be the next in line because he made some mistakes in his first few MLS games.

Jesus Pookie calm down...

I'm just saying that... Actually, I'm not even going to get in a coversation with you about this or anything - I've seen where that has gone in other threads...

We won, 3pts, I'm going to keep celebrating and hoping Iro improves...

:drinking:

ManUtd4ever
08-14-2011, 10:53 AM
It's not sensationalism to accurately point out when a player is a constant liability on the pitch. I don't think anyone has written off Iro yet, but the undeniable reality is that he has been an overwhelming disappointment thus far.

BFin
08-14-2011, 11:11 AM
I can't figure out if you are going for sensationalism on purpose or simply want to rethink your point.

RSL had quite a few off the woodwork, had a few others just miss and not all of them are on Iro. Any one of those shots, which typically result from a failure to close down or losing a 1 v 1 battle could have cost the team. By the sheer grace of physics, the ball didn't have the trajectory to find the back of the net. That's it.

Every player makes mistakes. Whether they end up costing the team is usually down to good fortune.

Further we have a tendency to blame the last guy near the play and forget that it was a turnover in mid-field or a poor distribution decision that led to the subsequent build up.

Or I guess since every Toronto team needs someone to run out of town, Iro just happens to be the next in line because he made some mistakes in his first few MLS games.

Talk about sensationalism...

TFC07
08-14-2011, 11:17 AM
Iro made couple of major mistakes last night that we got lucky (both in first half) but luckily RSL didn't score.

One major mistake was when he left his man open to have a point blank shot by 'helping' out his teammate.

Second major mistake was close to end of first half where the ball went through him and his man almost had a breakaway.

Fort York Redcoat
08-14-2011, 11:24 AM
Not saying that Iro outplayed either of them. Simply that the "hate" for this guy is best tempered with an overall picture vs a moment in a game. Otherwise, we'll chase another potentially decent player out of our line up who may go on to better things.

I think the hate is a bit much but one can see Iro's mistakes have come at key moments. A good player must recognize those moments since they can effect a game's momentum so much and the players around him.

I'd like to see Iro start vs Tauro since they are a great place for improvement. What skill they may be short on will be compensated with the CA delicate flair we've come to know from CCL matches. Surely a marking challenge for Iro.

DangerRed
08-14-2011, 11:46 AM
Or I guess since every Toronto team needs someone to run out of town, Iro just happens to be the next in line because he made some mistakes in his first few MLS games.

Oh my IROny.

Roca
08-14-2011, 12:26 PM
The fucking walk to get in the stadium was unreal. I nearly got in a fight with two security guards with all the hoops they made us walk through. Had we not won I'd be irate. Should have been a draw. RSL deserved better, but we got a bit of luck and that's been in short supply around here this season.

Agreed. I couldn't believe how poor the signage was -- I ended up walking almost all the way to Ontario Place and then had to go all the way back and around.

Azerban
08-14-2011, 01:05 PM
How many last night? What, none? Then why does our stupid fanbase continuously bring it up?

don't think there are words capable of expressing how clueless this is

Super Cereal
08-14-2011, 01:14 PM
don't think there are words capable of expressing how clueless this is

You struggle to put forth a coherent sentence, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone you're at a loss for words. It's like talking to a third grader.

brad
08-14-2011, 01:15 PM
Folks that are continually calling out certain players while praising others would do well to visit "the Chalkboard" for a statistical analysis of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-08-13-toronto-fc-vs-real-salt-lake/chalkboard

Compare a fan favourite like Eckersley with our next whipping boy candidate Iro and you'll see some interesting numbers.

For example, Iro completed 20 of 27 passes. Ecks, 18 of 34.

Frings made 7 "Recoveries" and 2 "Clearances". Iro 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances"

Not saying that Iro outplayed either of them. Simply that the "hate" for this guy is best tempered with an overall picture vs a moment in a game. Otherwise, we'll chase another potentially decent player out of our line up who may go on to better things.

Thanks for the link - I've never seen that and love those sort of stats. Ecks was statistically better defensively over Iro though.

Ecks made 8 tackles, Iro made 1.
Ecks made 9 recoveries, Iro made 5.

That said, stats can usually be sliced and diced anyway you want. What is clear from watching Iro play so far (I only caught a bit of last nights game so my comments don't relate to those) is that Iro has screwed up a bunch and been at fault for goals and Ecks has not.

Azerban
08-14-2011, 01:18 PM
You struggle to put forth a coherent sentence, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone you're at a loss for words. It's like talking to a third grader.

nah.

Beach_Red
08-14-2011, 01:20 PM
In many sports the bolded statement is something all fans should consider - in a sport like football, where 1-goal is often the difference, that "moment in a game" is often the difference between a win and a loss...

Stats are numbers and nothing less - a win is a win and a loss is a loss...

I don't care if a guy completes 100% of his passes, recovers 300 balls, but makes that one mistake game in and game out that causes the team to not win...

That's what matters...

Iro is making MAJOR MISTAKES - it must be addressed...

Last night, the excellent play by the rest of the team stopped that f'up from costing us a great win...

It is being addressed. We're really just now starting to see Winter take control of this team and it looks very good. He's finding ways to win with the roster he has. This is MLS, no team will ever have an ideal roster. It can't always be addressed with a new player.

ag futbol
08-14-2011, 01:30 PM
CB has to be that position on the field that is as mistake free as possible. Iro leaving his man last night to double a guy on the outside and providing RSL with a clear opportunity to score is just one more piece of a dossier of evidence suggesting he's not the guy to start. I don't think he's being "run out of town" his play is doing that on its own.

PopePouri
08-14-2011, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the link - I've never seen that and love those sort of stats. Ecks was statistically better defensively over Iro though.

Ecks made 8 tackles, Iro made 1.
Ecks made 9 recoveries, Iro made 5.

That said, stats can usually be sliced and diced anyway you want. What is clear from watching Iro play so far (I only caught a bit of last nights game so my comments don't relate to those) is that Iro has screwed up a bunch and been at fault for goals and Ecks has not.

To be fair, it looked like most attacks from RSL came from the right side therefore Ecks had more work to do.


CB has to be that position on the field that is as mistake free as possible. Iro leaving his man last night to double a guy on the outside and providing RSL with a clear opportunity to score is just one more piece of a dossier of evidence suggesting he's not the guy to start. I don't think he's being "run out of town" his play is doing that on its own.

If you're talking about the play where Espindola hit the cross bar, Ecks wasn't well positioned and Frings got beat, so Iro was the last man. I don't blame him for leaving his man.

DichioTFC
08-14-2011, 02:00 PM
I think I'm fair with my criticism of Iro, but if you guys look at Chalkboard, he lost possession seven times. Our last line of defense lost possession seven times (but then again, Nat Borchers lost possession nine times).

This is what we're going to get with Iro. He would excel in Preki's team defense system, but in Winter's Total Football, he's a stop-gap solution and, whether you like it or not, our starting CB until 2012.

ArmenJBX
08-14-2011, 02:03 PM
I think I'm fair with my criticism of Iro, but if you guys look at Chalkboard, he lost possession seven times. Our last line of defense lost possession seven times (but then again, Nat Borchers lost possession nine times).

This is what we're going to get with Iro. He would excel in Preki's team defense system, but in Winter's Total Football, he's a stop-gap solution and, whether you like it or not, our starting CB until 2012.

With every pair of centerbacks there exists a cohesion between the intellect and the brute strength.

Andy Iro will do just fine if we pair him with a smarter centerback, with more knowledge and experience, a la Chad Marshall while in Columbus.

TFC USA
08-14-2011, 02:07 PM
Iro is shite and the mistakes he makes are not because of the lack of another quality centerback.

He loses possession easily and gets beaten easily. He loses his markers frequently.

We need to realize when shit is shit and not try to accommodate it.

DichioTFC
08-14-2011, 02:09 PM
^ Pairing Iro with Marvel Wynne would be very interesting. One of those 'its so crazy it just might work' type of decisions

TFC USA
08-14-2011, 02:24 PM
^ Pairing Iro with Marvel Wynne would be very interesting. One of those 'its so crazy it just might work' type of decisions

Wynne hasn't been too bad at CB for Colorado. But at least once a month he'd get a penalty called against him.

Pookie
08-14-2011, 02:30 PM
It's not sensationalism to accurately point out when a player is a constant liability on the pitch. I don't think anyone has written off Iro yet, but the undeniable reality is that he has been an overwhelming disappointment thus far.

All depends on what your expectations are for a player that didn't see much if any match action in 2011, to be put into a new system with players that didn't know one another, fly him on a plane for 22 hours, stick him on a bus for 4 hours and have him sleeping in 3 different time zones in the span of 7 days.

I can't defend his mistakes. They are mistakes and clearly cost the team points.

At the same time, I won't write off a player that has distinguished himself from his peers at the NCAA level and made a very successful transition to the MLS. Maybe you aren't but a couple of posts above me and you can see the sentiment is there.
I think a little understanding is in order.

Wombat
08-14-2011, 02:45 PM
Folks that are continually calling out certain players while praising others would do well to visit "the Chalkboard" for a statistical analysis of the game.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2011-08-13-toronto-fc-vs-real-salt-lake/chalkboard

Compare a fan favourite like Eckersley with our next whipping boy candidate Iro and you'll see some interesting numbers.

For example, Iro completed 20 of 27 passes. Ecks, 18 of 34.

Frings made 7 "Recoveries" and 2 "Clearances". Iro 5 "Recoveries" and 4 "Clearances"

Not saying that Iro outplayed either of them. Simply that the "hate" for this guy is best tempered with an overall picture vs a moment in a game. Otherwise, we'll chase another potentially decent player out of our line up who may go on to better things.

Fair shout by Pookie.

I haven't seen many of the games where Iro has played previously, so came into last night's game unbiased. As my seats in 225 line up perfectly with the back four strung across the pitch, I had a good view of Eckersley (who I give 8/10 for last nights performance), Frings played well for another 8/10 and Andy Iro had a pretty solid game (rated 7/10).
TFC fans should give Iro a chance and lay off the boy. When you sense the crowd's against you, it tends to make you play worse not better

Pookie
08-14-2011, 02:47 PM
So you were more than happy to run our best player ever out of town ...

Get over him, he's gone.

Hard to "run a guy out of town" that is asking to be traded to play for another club... and another club... under the exact same contract he couldn't stomach here in Toronto.




I didn't know much about him before he came here, but Iro is tough to watch, and i can't see how he could possibly turn his game around to instill confidence in the back-line when he's on the field.

So, you know nothing about him and have concluded he can't turn his game around?

3 time NCAA Defender of the Year honours. NCAA First Team All American? Which lead the scouts, that did watch him, to nab him with 6th overall pick in the Superdraft.

On top of that, the Columbus Coaching staff highlighted he was the hardest working and easiest to coach in giving him the Coach's Award in 2010.

Sounds like a player with a pedigree that is open to bettering himself.

Look, I would acknowledge that he has to play better. However, your conclusion that you "can't see how he could possibly turn his game around..." is way too premature and clearly simply an opinion which is based on your view of him in 4 games.

He played well last night. Not mistake free but part of a team that shut out RSL. That deserves a little respect. His resume indicates he deserves a little time.

Wombat
08-14-2011, 02:50 PM
I rip JDG when he plays poorly (which is more times than not for TFC) so i'll give him the praise he's due after last night's performance.

His long balls were still very far off of the mark, but he made up for it with his positioning and tenacity. Maybe he's healing? Who knows? But hopefully we see more of that. Well done.

Nice to see Gazza focussing on Julian's "long balls". Thanks for that image Gazza - that just put me off my tea & biscuits.
The lad got stuck in last night and played a pretty good game. I'd give JDG 7/10 for his midfield performance against a strong RSL midfield

menefreghista
08-14-2011, 03:02 PM
As a side note to the Iro debate, what is the deal with Viator and Robinson? They both could be used as alternates to Iro.

I apologive if I missed any injuries they might have.

But if they were better alternatives to Iro, I'd assume Winter would use them.

DichioTFC
08-14-2011, 03:17 PM
Get over him, he's gone.

Hard to "run a guy out of town" that is asking to be traded to play for another club... and another club... under the exact same contract he couldn't stomach here in Toronto.




So, you know nothing about him and have concluded he can't turn his game around?

3 time NCAA Defender of the Year honours. NCAA First Team All American? Which lead the scouts, that did watch him, to nab him with 6th overall pick in the Superdraft.

On top of that, the Columbus Coaching staff highlighted he was the hardest working and easiest to coach in giving him the Coach's Award in 2010.

Sounds like a player with a pedigree that is open to bettering himself.

Look, I would acknowledge that he has to play better. However, your conclusion that you "can't see how he could possibly turn his game around..." is way too premature and clearly simply an opinion which is based on your view of him in 4 games.

He played well last night. Not mistake free but part of a team that shut out RSL. That deserves a little respect. His resume indicates he deserves a little time.

Nick Garcia had a good resume too ;)

Yohan
08-14-2011, 03:18 PM
Nick Garcia had a good resume too ;)
and I'd be first one to admit I got suckered by it... (and well, he used to be a decent MLS defender)

TFC07
08-14-2011, 03:33 PM
As a side note to the Iro debate, what is the deal with Viator and Robinson? They both could be used as alternates to Iro.

I apologive if I missed any injuries they might have.

But if they were better alternatives to Iro, I'd assume Winter would use them.

They both are injured.

Heathen
08-14-2011, 03:41 PM
You struggle to put forth a coherent sentence, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone you're at a loss for words. It's like talking to a third grader.

Really? Love him or loathe him, Azerban's one of the sharpest tools on here.

flatpicker
08-14-2011, 03:50 PM
Really? Love him or loathe him, Azerban's one of the sharpest tools on here.

haha... I can't tell if that is a compliment or an insult to Azerban.
:D

TFC USA
08-14-2011, 03:51 PM
and I'd be first one to admit I got suckered by it... (and well, he used to be a decent MLS defender)

Yep. College soccer is an entirely different animal altogether. I don't like the whole "college resume good" so he can succeed in whatever sport.

Alex Smith was a hell of a QB at Utah and he's terrible with the 49ers. They're in denial about it and keep starting that guy.

v00d00daddy
08-14-2011, 03:54 PM
CB has to be that position on the field that is as mistake free as possible. Iro leaving his man last night to double a guy on the outside and providing RSL with a clear opportunity to score is just one more piece of a dossier of evidence suggesting he's not the guy to start. I don't think he's being "run out of town" his play is doing that on its own.

I'm assuming you're talking about the play where Frings dove into a tackle and was unlucky to see the ball bounce right back to an RSL player.

Then Eckersley stood and watched as the play developed around him, never contributing to the play while Frings attempted to force a play out of the ball carrier.

Then Iro comes over from his position to "help"...leaving saborio or espindola (can't remember which) one on one. Luckily he missed

But there was a lot more blame to go around on that play than just Iro.

If the passer isn't pressured by Iro he just becomes the shooter and we may be sitting here bitching that Iro did nothing to prevent or pressure him.

At the end of the day it was a joint breakdown on the back line that caused that.

We're too quick to blame Iro for everything because of the brutal mistakes he made previous.

v00d00daddy
08-14-2011, 03:57 PM
To be fair, it looked like most attacks from RSL came from the right side therefore Ecks had more work to do.



If you're talking about the play where Espindola hit the cross bar, Ecks wasn't well positioned and Frings got beat, so Iro was the last man. I don't blame him for leaving his man.

Hahaha. Shoulda read this first. Totally agree

GuelphStorm2007
08-14-2011, 04:05 PM
I did not see the game last night was at the Rogers Cup last night, Based on what I am reading here on the boards it seems TFC is staring to turn the corner, Hopefully they can start dominating games on the road, then in my opinion I think they have turned the Corner.. Plata for Rookie of the year.

69Chevy396
08-14-2011, 06:01 PM
CB has to be that position on the field that is as mistake free as possible. Iro leaving his man last night to double a guy on the outside and providing RSL with a clear opportunity to score is just one more piece of a dossier of evidence suggesting he's not the guy to start. I don't think he's being "run out of town" his play is doing that on its own.
I agree. That play was bush league. A second later one could easily see Frings giving him shit. Despite this, this was the best game of the season so far, i actually saw a win at BMO, and that is rare. Still confusing is 2 designated players in defensive roles; I would prefer to see Fring on the attack a little, and put jdg back to CM, if he can handle it. I suspect Dunfield will determine if this happens or not.

London
08-14-2011, 06:41 PM
so, when walking to the stadium, i passed a group of philly fans and some of them were sons of ben.

i wonder why they were around BMO on gameday???

Azerban
08-14-2011, 06:52 PM
haha... I can't tell if that is a compliment or an insult to Azerban.
:D

damned with faint praise


Plata for Rookie of the year.

Rookie of the Year, TFC Player of the Year, everything, the kid is dynamite.


I would prefer to see Fring on the attack a little, and put jdg back to CM, if he can handle it.

he's not big enough, nor a good enough tackler. JDG at CB would be enough to get even his most fervent supporters to start pooling their nickels for a one-way ticket to edmonton.

nickio
08-14-2011, 07:11 PM
All things said and done, I don't think Iro will ever be the answer for us. Even if he improves his defensive game.

He still can't move the ball comfortably, he doesn't see up the field well. We need a key distribution man who is not a liability in Defense. The last piece of the puzze that I really really hope we solve by next season.

If Cann makes a healthy return next year, I see him being pared with a new quality CB. Watchin our backline now makes me miss and appreciate the stability that Cann brought to us, even if it didn't seem that great at the time.

It seems like Toronto has been at this point a number of times, missing the last piece of the puzzle to become a winning team. I hope they don't stop now and get'er done.

bgnewf
08-14-2011, 07:11 PM
3-4-3

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/08/3-4-3/

A video look back at the win Saturday vs Real Salt Lake that saw TFC use a new formation that allowed them to flood the midfield and keep the ball away from RSL just enough to earn three points.

In this edition I take a brief look back at the game and take a look ahead to the Champions League group stages, laying out what it will take to have a chance of advancing to the group stages.

Whoop
08-14-2011, 07:22 PM
So, you know nothing about him and have concluded he can't turn his game around?

3 time NCAA Defender of the Year honours. NCAA First Team All American? Which lead the scouts, that did watch him, to nab him with 6th overall pick in the Superdraft.

On top of that, the Columbus Coaching staff highlighted he was the hardest working and easiest to coach in giving him the Coach's Award in 2010.

Sounds like a player with a pedigree that is open to bettering himself.

Look, I would acknowledge that he has to play better. However, your conclusion that you "can't see how he could possibly turn his game around..." is way too premature and clearly simply an opinion which is based on your view of him in 4 games.

He played well last night. Not mistake free but part of a team that shut out RSL. That deserves a little respect. His resume indicates he deserves a little time.

The key is when everyone zigs, you zag.

The NCAA is slowly becoming passe as a place to get players. As the level of player required slowly inches its way up, guys coming out of the NCAA are going to be left behind. At the end of the day, the NCAA route will be for late, late bloomers, or for cheap bench depth.

Andy Iro's "resume" is impressive for a NCAA player, it's no longer impressive for a MLS player.

While he didn't make any major mistakes, he did struggle. I can't remember which RSL player had him beat in the 1st half, but Iro struggled to catch him and did everything he could to impede him. He was lucky he didn't get a foul or carded.

Aside from his height (and his youth), I actually feel more comfortable with Harden back there than with Iro.

I'm just surprised Iro is the guy Winter/Mariner targeted when he doesn't fit the "profile" for the "system".

Pookie
08-14-2011, 07:41 PM
^ 6'5" left footed CB who is highly coachable and has a very strong work ethic? I'm not surprised he was targeted. That said, that doesn't necessarily mean that there were plenty of available targets either or that he is the long term solution.

I'm just saying give the guy a chance.

Waggy
08-14-2011, 07:51 PM
Here's my problem with stats. When used to look at a really good team, a Barca or something, those stats tell you a lot about how people played. With less talent they don't tell the whole story. With good players you assume everyone else to be playing properly and being in the right place to receive passes, make runs, cover and track back on defense etc. In MLS we can't take that for granted. How many passes are incomplete because someone didn't make a proper run? How many fouls were taken because someone was caught out of position? How many times was a player out of position or not paying attention to the right player/area of the field and caused another person to mess up their own defensive responsibilities trying to cover for them? Stats help augment what you see, they don't replace it. Iro isn't as bad as he looked the first few games, but he isn't great either. Is he good enough to be serviceable on a good MLS team? I'd say last year says yes. Does that mean he's great? No. Does that mean he doesn't make mistakes? Oh hell no.

Whoop
08-14-2011, 07:54 PM
You left out the part though, low football IQ and not very skilled.

I know men's league players the same age, who are 6'5", left footed and have a strong work ethic and would be highly coachable. Doesn't mean they can play.

It's a dilemma all scouts face. Ideally you want a guy who has "skill and will". That's obvious. Then the question becomes do you take the guy with the skill but not the will or do you take the guy with the will but no skill?

I think the MLS is full of guys who work hard, show heart but have horrible first touches and can't string two passes together. I mean it's the "American" way. The darkhorse is best.

Now the question is finding guys who are skilled who maybe need some proper coaching or playing time to show their stuff.

Right now, Iro is not a starter. That's all.

ArmenJBX
08-14-2011, 08:03 PM
<----RPB Member?

Sweeeeeeeet :D

billyfly
08-14-2011, 08:06 PM
You left out the part though, low football IQ and not very skilled.

I know men's league players the same age, who are 6'5", left footed and have a strong work ethic and would be highly coachable. Doesn't mean they can play.

It's a dilemma all scouts face. Ideally you want a guy who has "skill and will". That's obvious. Then the question becomes do you take the guy with the skill but not the will or do you take the guy with the will but no skill?

I think the MLS is full of guys who work hard, show heart but have horrible first touches and can't string two passes together. I mean it's the "American" way. The darkhorse is best.

Now the question is finding guys who are skilled who maybe need some proper coaching or playing time to show their stuff.

Right now, Iro is not a starter. That's all.

Agreed.

Gazza_55
08-14-2011, 08:15 PM
The key is when everyone zigs, you zag.

The NCAA is slowly becoming passe as a place to get players. As the level of player required slowly inches its way up, guys coming out of the NCAA are going to be left behind. At the end of the day, the NCAA route will be for late, late bloomers, or for cheap bench depth.

.....

I'm just surprised Iro is the guy Winter/Mariner targeted when he doesn't fit the "profile" for the "system".

Totally disagree. As MLS becomes more visible and the players make bigger incomes a lot more schools will take soccer seriously (especially in the SEC). The players from the NCAA are getting much better and will contribute more to the league not less. It's the one advantage MLS has over almost every other league.

Azerban
08-14-2011, 09:10 PM
Totally disagree. As MLS becomes more visible and the players make bigger incomes a lot more schools will take soccer seriously (especially in the SEC). The players from the NCAA are getting much better and will contribute more to the league not less. It's the one advantage MLS has over almost every other league.

ncaa could pretend to be relevant if it used the actual rules of the game

unlimited substitutions, you're having a laugh

Ossington Mental Youth
08-14-2011, 09:39 PM
Who do you start in Iros place? Harden? No thanks

billyfly
08-14-2011, 09:41 PM
Isn't the training academy going to replace the NCAA as a main feeder?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-14-2011, 10:15 PM
most likely for us but not necessarily for others

TFCREDNWHITE
08-14-2011, 10:18 PM
Whatever happened to this French Ligue 1 St.Etienne CB?? Are we still hunting him??

Whoop
08-14-2011, 10:21 PM
Totally disagree. As MLS becomes more visible and the players make bigger incomes a lot more schools will take soccer seriously (especially in the SEC). The players from the NCAA are getting much better and will contribute more to the league not less. It's the one advantage MLS has over almost every other league.


ncaa could pretend to be relevant if it used the actual rules of the game

unlimited substitutions, you're having a laugh


Isn't the training academy going to replace the NCAA as a main feeder?

As the academy system becomes more prevalent in North America - as every MLS team gets an academy team and every CSL/USL/NASL team does as well - the NCAA will end up becoming less and less relevant.

As an example, if you go through the US Under 20 team, fewer and fewer players are coming out of the NCAA system. And if Jurgen Klinsmann will be in charge of setting up the development model in the USA, I'll guarantee he'll stress the academy route over the NCAA route.

Auzzy
08-14-2011, 11:51 PM
Yes, Iro screwed up again last night, although not as bad as in other games.

A couple of other TFC players also screwed up on D, including examples mentioned above. But also: a couple of free headers on corner kicks. In addition, a couple of times near the end, there was an RSL player totally open inside the 6-yard box, on the near side of the kick. And more examples. But still better overall than in previous games, plus luck that RSL couldn't convert.

However, I wanted to add what Iro did do a good job with: he was giving Espindola a really hard time throughout the game while covering him. And when some of the other RSL players were near him, he did the same thing. Alot of borderline stuff that was enough to piss off the RSL players and make it hard to complete plays, but not enough to get called. Considering they have a couple of whiny bitches playing for them, it was the right thing to do. Espindola was getting more & more exasperated, and less effective.

Mind you, Iro can't pull the same stuff in most CCL games, because many of the opponents will dive as soon as he's within 2 metres, and many Concacrap refs will call it. But for last night, it was the right thing to do.

habstfc
08-15-2011, 12:18 AM
Why do they shoot confetti in the south end at the start of the game? I am pretty sure that's why Borman slipped in front of the RSL goal, negating a great scoring chance, anyone else notice this? It sure looks like it on the replay.

J .
08-15-2011, 01:54 AM
I honestly can't remember the last time this team has hit a successful cross from the wing. Best bet might not be to go for goal from crosses, but play it back to Plata or Johnson for a 20-25 yard strike on net.

The inability for us to cross doesnt help get DK involved in the attack, and I think he could be quite dangerous in the box and if we did have someone who could cross, it would only force the opposing sides to spread out and cover the wings more giving Avila more room to operate as our AM.

Maybe Beckham was right, guys in MLS simply cant/wont/dont cross in this league.

J .
08-15-2011, 02:07 AM
I dont want to become an Iro apologist as sometimes it feels I defend him too much, but I cant help but to feel he is being punished for having a few hard matches. His errors have been glaring and has infact covered up a lot of good work he has done. Iro was a championship defender, is still young, apparently coachable and is a big man and the first CB who can put a long ball forward and get it to a player and not randomly hoof it.

He has made massive mistakes, but he is the best CB we have if we count Frings as a midfielder. Better than Cann, Williams, Harden and Henry. Ive seen him play while with Columbus and he was a beast and better than Ive seen the guys above play. I suspect it will take time to get the rhythm of playing game to game and to rebuild his confidence, two parts of the defending aspect of the game not given enough credit.

Fort York Redcoat
08-15-2011, 06:26 AM
Totally disagree. As MLS becomes more visible and the players make bigger incomes a lot more schools will take soccer seriously (especially in the SEC). The players from the NCAA are getting much better and will contribute more to the league not less. It's the one advantage MLS has over almost every other league.

But will a lot more teams think more of the Superdraft?

Not any time soon and that is the best the NCAA has to offer.

Wull
08-15-2011, 07:18 AM
If we lost, this thread would have been 15 pages by now. Let's celebrate! They played well against a good team, ground out a result at the end, had some good performances by players that needed it (like Borman) and the emergency tailgate was pretty damn fun. all in all, that's been the best day I've had in quite a while at BMO. Aside from the security guard who practically molested me on the way in

DichioTFC
08-15-2011, 07:39 AM
Why do they shoot confetti in the south end at the start of the game? I am pretty sure that's why Borman slipped in front of the RSL goal, negating a great scoring chance, anyone else notice this? It sure looks like it on the replay.

To quote 112, "Fuck confetti. Fuck fuck confetti."


The inability for us to cross doesnt help get DK involved in the attack, and I think he could be quite dangerous in the box and if we did have someone who could cross, it would only force the opposing sides to spread out and cover the wings more giving Avila more room to operate as our AM.

Maybe Beckham was right, guys in MLS simply cant/wont/dont cross in this league.

Perhaps change DK's role to one of a poacher? Its a shame because he has tremendous height, but there is simply no one on this team that can make a cross.

J .
08-15-2011, 07:44 AM
Perhaps change DK's role to one of a poacher? Its a shame because he has tremendous height, but there is simply no one on this team that can make a cross.



I suspect you may be right unless that issue is addressed.

At least we finally have some players who can at least be of value on the wings.

Canary_canuck
08-15-2011, 07:48 AM
My son and I having relinquished our half seasons ( after four years ), Saturday's game was the first one we attended this year. I was pleasantly surprised by the atmosphere and it was a great night to watch football. Most of my observations were positive. I had seen Frings playing for Germany, and his MSL play is of the highest calibre. His distribution is terrific...cushioned headers, beautifully weighted passes ( one to the sideline to find Ecks was a revelation ) and positioning and anticipation indicate no loss of skills. We are truly lucky to have him. Koevermans is clearly a threat with a terrific shot but is not getting enough ball in advantageous positions. Plata is an ever-ready battery constantly distracting the defence and Stinson shows definite promise. Kocic was excellent, stoning RSL on several important occasions. I like Frei very much but it is ressuring to have such a capable backup 'keeper. We still have weaknesses but are definitely on the right track. I give Winter credit for not panicking in recent months. I still dislike the ownership but the on-field product is becoming more worthy of a great city.
On The Ball TFC ( a corruption of Norwich City's slogan ).

Pookie
08-15-2011, 07:49 AM
As the academy system becomes more prevalent in North America - as every MLS team gets an academy team and every CSL/USL/NASL team does as well - the NCAA will end up becoming less and less relevant.

As an example, if you go through the US Under 20 team, fewer and fewer players are coming out of the NCAA system. And if Jurgen Klinsmann will be in charge of setting up the development model in the USA, I'll guarantee he'll stress the academy route over the NCAA route.

If soccer picks up in popularity, you don't think that the NCAA money making machine will take notice and adapt? (see below)

Pookie
08-15-2011, 07:57 AM
But will a lot more teams think more of the Superdraft?

Not any time soon and that is the best the NCAA has to offer.

Perhaps folks have missed the announcement regarding NCAA eligibility? Essentially players can leave an Academy for the NCAA and the fact that they may have played in a "pro" game does not impact their status.

What does that mean? It means that the NCAA is adapting and here is an example of what it means for both the Academy system and the NCAA in a practical way:

Eight standout MLS academy players headed to college

by Travis Clark mlssoccer.com

A new season of college soccer is right around the corner, and as MLS academies continue to grow, college programs are benefiting more from the talent coming through the league's youth system.

A number of top college recruits are affiliated with MLS clubs across the US, and with most preseason camps across the country opening on Wednesday, there were plenty of academy players looking to integrate themselves before the new season starts in two weeks.

With that, here are eight players to watch this coming year (MLS academy teams listed in parentheses):

F Sean Okoli, Wake Forest (Seattle Sounders FC)

A forward/winger who scored 13 goals in 22 games for Seattle’s U-18 side, Okoli is going to be a big addition to Wake Forest’s offense this year as they look to recover from a disappointing 2011.

“He's a player with tremendous potential,” Wake Forest coach Jay Vidovich said in a press release. “He has soft feet and the pace to stretch other teams, and also [knows] how to combine with other players.”

D Boyd Okuwonu, North Carolina (FC Dallas)

FC Dallas’ youth program continues to groom exciting young prospects, and Okuwonu was part of the US U-18 side that competed at the recent Milk Cup. A versatile and athletic defender, Okuwonu can player either in the middle or on the right side of the back line. He’ll compete to start right off the bat.

MF Wil Trapp, Akron (Columbus Crew)

One of the Crew’s best prospects at the moment, Trapp (above right) is a central midfielder with good technique, athleticism and an innate ability to read the game. He’ll look to play a big part in Akron’s rebuilding project.

“I think he's going to excel at Akron and he’s a guy we’re certainly keeping an eye on,” Crew GM Brian Bliss told MLSsoccer.com earlier in the year.

D Jack Coleman, Indiana (FC Dallas)

The defender and captain of FC Dallas’ U-18 team that came up just short in the Developement Academy Finals should thrive under Todd Yeagley in his freshman year at Indiana. A tough and tenacious defender, he’ll continue to improve at the next level.

D/MF Tyler Rudy, Georgetown (D.C. United)

Another versatile talent, Rudy will stay local and play at nearby Georgetown after a successful stint with DC’s Academy. Rudy, who can play in central midfield or as an outside back, held his own in a reserve match with DC earlier in the year.

GK Keith Cardona, Maryland (New York Red Bulls)

With the departure of Zac MacMath to MLS after last fall, Maryland is in need of a new starting goalkeeper, and Red Bulls Academy product Cardona will fight for that chance. A good shot-stopper with a large 6-foot-4 frame, he’ll need to stay healthy in order to take the next step.

“Keith is a terrific young goalkeeper with tremendous potential,” head coach Sasho Cirovski said in a press release. "He has all of the qualities necessary to have a big impact in our program."

D DeAndre Yedlin, Akron (Seattle Sounders FC)

The heir apparent to Houston’s Kofi Sarkodie at right back, Yedlin is another exciting Seattle prospect heading to a big-time program. He’ll join forces at Akron with Caleb Porter, who spotted Yedlin at a US U-18 camp (Porter is an assistant with the U-18s).

MF Sean Davis, Duke (New York Red Bulls)

A workhorse for New York’s U-18s team last year, Davis is a former US Residency player from Bradenton, Fla., who is part of a loaded recruiting class for Duke. He’ll help the Blue Devils replace the Crew’s Cole Grossman.



http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/08/11/eight-standout-mls-academy-players-headed-college

Fort York Redcoat
08-15-2011, 08:04 AM
*Groan*

Spare me. I have no interest in keeping up with the ridiculous amount of schools in the NCAA vs an Academy. This opportunity being taken by kids is entirely understandable, especially from the POV of their parents but this is where they lose me entirely.

Our Academy in CSL? Great. Leaving to go to Rutgers Forrest Miami College of Idaho State?

See you at the SuperDuperDraft.

trane
08-15-2011, 09:17 AM
The key is when everyone zigs, you zag.

The NCAA is slowly becoming passe as a place to get players. As the level of player required slowly inches its way up, guys coming out of the NCAA are going to be left behind. At the end of the day, the NCAA route will be for late, late bloomers, or for cheap bench depth.

Andy Iro's "resume" is impressive for a NCAA player, it's no longer impressive for a MLS player.

While he didn't make any major mistakes, he did struggle. I can't remember which RSL player had him beat in the 1st half, but Iro struggled to catch him and did everything he could to impede him. He was lucky he didn't get a foul or carded.

Aside from his height (and his youth), I actually feel more comfortable with Harden back there than with Iro.

I'm just surprised Iro is the guy Winter/Mariner targeted when he doesn't fit the "profile" for the "system".

I understand why you say this. But long term Iro may develop into a good CB, he has certain basic qualities, and Harden to me has almost none of them. Iro has the CB instincts he is just to emotional aggresive at times, Harden is more skilled but does not have good instincnt. I would play Iro for the rest of the season, and hope that he develops, for me Harden at CB is done. But again I understand why my opinion at this point is not popular. AND I agree Iro has made some horrible mistakes at the back, and is lucky that we have not conceded more goals due to them.

Yohan
08-15-2011, 09:38 AM
I understand why you say this. But long term Iro may develop into a good CB, he has certain basic qualities, and Harden to me has almost none of them. Iro has the CB instincts he is just to emotional aggresive at times, Harden is more skilled but does not have good instincnt. I would play Iro for the rest of the season, and hope that he develops, for me Harden at CB is done. But again I understand why my opinion at this point is not popular. AND I agree Iro has made some horrible mistakes at the back, and is lucky that we have not conceded more goals due to them.
Iro is 26. just how much more development can he get?

ManUtd4ever
08-15-2011, 09:43 AM
I understand why you say this. But long term Iro may develop into a good CB, he has certain basic qualities, and Harden to me has almost none of them. Iro has the CB instincts he is just to emotional aggresive at times, Harden is more skilled but does not have good instincnt. I would play Iro for the rest of the season, and hope that he develops, for me Harden at CB is done. But again I understand why my opinion at this point is not popular. AND I agree Iro has made some horrible mistakes at the back, and is lucky that we have not conceded more goals due to them.

I dunno, I have to agree with Whoop. I never thought I'd say it, but right now I would prefer to see Harden on the pitch over Iro. Harden is better with ball at his feet and he doesn't get beaten as easily in one on one situations. It's the lesser of two evils at the moment, until Robinson and Viator are healthy enough to be given a chance. I agree that Iro should be given more opportunities to regain his form over the duration of the schedule, but he is currently not worthy of being an automatic selection in the starting lineup.

Whoop
08-15-2011, 09:50 AM
Perhaps folks have missed the announcement regarding NCAA eligibility? Essentially players can leave an Academy for the NCAA and the fact that they may have played in a "pro" game does not impact their status.

What does that mean? It means that the NCAA is adapting and here is an example of what it means for both the Academy system and the NCAA in a practical way:

Eight standout MLS academy players headed to college

by Travis Clark mlssoccer.com

A new season of college soccer is right around the corner, and as MLS academies continue to grow, college programs are benefiting more from the talent coming through the league's youth system.

A number of top college recruits are affiliated with MLS clubs across the US, and with most preseason camps across the country opening on Wednesday, there were plenty of academy players looking to integrate themselves before the new season starts in two weeks.

With that, here are eight players to watch this coming year (MLS academy teams listed in parentheses):

F Sean Okoli, Wake Forest (Seattle Sounders FC)

A forward/winger who scored 13 goals in 22 games for Seattle’s U-18 side, Okoli is going to be a big addition to Wake Forest’s offense this year as they look to recover from a disappointing 2011.

“He's a player with tremendous potential,” Wake Forest coach Jay Vidovich said in a press release. “He has soft feet and the pace to stretch other teams, and also [knows] how to combine with other players.”

D Boyd Okuwonu, North Carolina (FC Dallas)

FC Dallas’ youth program continues to groom exciting young prospects, and Okuwonu was part of the US U-18 side that competed at the recent Milk Cup. A versatile and athletic defender, Okuwonu can player either in the middle or on the right side of the back line. He’ll compete to start right off the bat.

MF Wil Trapp, Akron (Columbus Crew)

One of the Crew’s best prospects at the moment, Trapp (above right) is a central midfielder with good technique, athleticism and an innate ability to read the game. He’ll look to play a big part in Akron’s rebuilding project.

“I think he's going to excel at Akron and he’s a guy we’re certainly keeping an eye on,” Crew GM Brian Bliss told MLSsoccer.com earlier in the year.

D Jack Coleman, Indiana (FC Dallas)

The defender and captain of FC Dallas’ U-18 team that came up just short in the Developement Academy Finals should thrive under Todd Yeagley in his freshman year at Indiana. A tough and tenacious defender, he’ll continue to improve at the next level.

D/MF Tyler Rudy, Georgetown (D.C. United)

Another versatile talent, Rudy will stay local and play at nearby Georgetown after a successful stint with DC’s Academy. Rudy, who can play in central midfield or as an outside back, held his own in a reserve match with DC earlier in the year.

GK Keith Cardona, Maryland (New York Red Bulls)

With the departure of Zac MacMath to MLS after last fall, Maryland is in need of a new starting goalkeeper, and Red Bulls Academy product Cardona will fight for that chance. A good shot-stopper with a large 6-foot-4 frame, he’ll need to stay healthy in order to take the next step.

“Keith is a terrific young goalkeeper with tremendous potential,” head coach Sasho Cirovski said in a press release. "He has all of the qualities necessary to have a big impact in our program."

D DeAndre Yedlin, Akron (Seattle Sounders FC)

The heir apparent to Houston’s Kofi Sarkodie at right back, Yedlin is another exciting Seattle prospect heading to a big-time program. He’ll join forces at Akron with Caleb Porter, who spotted Yedlin at a US U-18 camp (Porter is an assistant with the U-18s).

MF Sean Davis, Duke (New York Red Bulls)

A workhorse for New York’s U-18s team last year, Davis is a former US Residency player from Bradenton, Fla., who is part of a loaded recruiting class for Duke. He’ll help the Blue Devils replace the Crew’s Cole Grossman.



http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/08/11/eight-standout-mls-academy-players-headed-college


*Groan*

Spare me. I have no interest in keeping up with the ridiculous amount of schools in the NCAA vs an Academy. This opportunity being taken by kids is entirely understandable, especially from the POV of their parents but this is where they lose me entirely.

Our Academy in CSL? Great. Leaving to go to Rutgers Forrest Miami College of Idaho State?

See you at the SuperDuperDraft.

Ultimately, if those guys going to school were any good they would have been signed by their respective clubs or have gone overseas.

You can't play NCAA sports if you've signed a pro contract or played in a professional game.

What those guys are doing is just covering their bases in case their pro careers don't pan.

The age those guys are at - 18-20 - they should be challenging for a spot on the first team... not coming in to the league when they are 22-23. That's what kills the development of American/Canadian players. Instead of competing with better players, they're playing sub-standard football with guys their own age.

Whoop
08-15-2011, 09:52 AM
I understand why you say this. But long term Iro may develop into a good CB, he has certain basic qualities, and Harden to me has almost none of them. Iro has the CB instincts he is just to emotional aggresive at times, Harden is more skilled but does not have good instincnt. I would play Iro for the rest of the season, and hope that he develops, for me Harden at CB is done. But again I understand why my opinion at this point is not popular. AND I agree Iro has made some horrible mistakes at the back, and is lucky that we have not conceded more goals due to them.


I dunno, I have to agree with Whoop. I never thought I'd say it, but right now I would prefer to see Harden on the pitch over Iro. Harden is better with ball at his feet and he doesn't get beaten as easily in one on one situations. It's the lesser of two evils at the moment, until Robinson and Viator are healthy enough to be given a chance. I agree that Iro should be given more opportunities to regain his form over the duration of the schedule, but he is currently not worthy of being an automatic selection in the starting lineup.

Really, I'd prefer neither.

I think with Frings back there helping out, it masked some of Iro's deficiencies. I understand the need to have Frings help out in the back, but ultimately for this team to move forward Frings can't be solely responsible for helping back there.

Wull
08-15-2011, 10:01 AM
If Frings has to be back there just now, I'd rather he was coaching the likes of Henry and Morgan through the game than Iro or Harden.

Pookie
08-15-2011, 10:07 AM
You can't play NCAA sports if you've signed a pro contract or played in a professional game.



Not exactly. The MLS and NCAA signed an "exemption agreement" a little while back:

“The new legislation allows prospective student-athletes who receive actual and necessary expenses only to remain eligible even if members of the same team received more than actual and necessary expenses. The legislation applies to prospective student-athletes who initially enroll full time on or after Aug 1, 2010.”

What does that mean? In practice, it will allow up-and-coming academy prospects to play in competitive matches with first-team players, such as in an MLS reserve league, the ratification of which is really a mere formality and should come very soon. In effect, it gives high school-aged players the opportunity to test the waters against pros in more than just a training setting without fear of forfeiting their chance to play in college.

The rule change wasn’t inspired by soccer – check out this ESPN.com story from last fall – but MLS loves it.

“This is going to allow young players to really show the type of ability to play at the highest level, giving them a chance to train at a young age, it’s going to expedite their development,” said MLS technical director for player development and scouting Alfonso Mondelo. “It’s going to let the clubs know, these are the guys who we can really put our investment in and bring them on early, or knowing that they’re not quite ready yet and go on to a couple years of college and maybe in a couple years, they’ll be ready.”

D.C. United has plenty of these types of guys, most of whom I’ve mentioned at some point or another this summer since United has made a habit of bringing them into training. Games are always another story. Not to mention, now reserve matches won't have to be filled out with sales reps who played in college or Ben Olsen's brother.

“It’s a huge step forward,” said United general manager Dave Kasper. “It’s motivation for our academy players to work hard and get an opportunity to get on the field with our reserves.”



Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/penalty-kicks/ncaa-rule-change-opens-doors-mls-academy-prospects#ixzz1V6u2XaW5

Detroit_TFC
08-15-2011, 10:12 AM
I generally agreed with the views on NCAA but it should be said that what Caleb Porter has done at Akron is amazing. Football factory there. He was resisted a lot of attempts to hire him away from the program. Whoever finally convinces him to leave will get a superior coach.

I followed Michigan for the first time last season, mainly to watch Saad Soony, his brother Hamoody, and Justin Meram. Soony got bad advice, quit to get on in Europe but couldn't (now at SKC). Meram now is getting minutes at Columbus. Hamoody should be the big star at UM this year.

Whoop
08-15-2011, 10:14 AM
“This is going to allow young players to really show the type of ability to play at the highest level, giving them a chance to train at a young age, it’s going to expedite their development,” said MLS technical director for player development and scouting Alfonso Mondelo. “It’s going to let the clubs know, these are the guys who we can really put our investment in and bring them on early, or knowing that they’re not quite ready yet and go on to a couple years of college and maybe in a couple years, they’ll be ready.”


But this is the key here.

It's just everyone covering their own ass. By the time those guys have come out of college, some more skilled 18-19 year old has beaten them for a spot on the team.

The fact is there is going to be a paradigm shift in North American football and that's moving away from the NCAA model. It's not going to be overnight but it within 10-15 years.

And it has to in order for the likes of the US and Canada to be more competitive.

Huyton
08-15-2011, 10:21 AM
Isn't Iro essentially cover for Adrian Cann? Next year, when Cann is back, Iro will spend more time on the bench.

I don't see him as the long term solution for this spot, nor, if everyone is healthy, Iro being first choice in our strongest 11 next year.

As it is, he is (perhaps barely) adequate cover for last years MVP.

Nothing more.

Could he become more? Perhaps, and that is where we have to trust the assembled wisdom of Mariner and Winter.

Huyton
08-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Oh, and for those who have not read it, there is a fantastic article called How a Soccer Star Is Made on the Ajax system. It also contrasts the way that athletes are developed in North America.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html

Highly recommended reading.

trane
08-15-2011, 10:32 AM
Iro is 26. just how much more development can he get?

CB is a position that you get better with experience, similar to goal keeping, alot of his mistakes are metal so he can improve. As many mistakes as I see in Iro make, I just do not see anything in Harden in terms of a long term CB.

trane
08-15-2011, 10:34 AM
Really, I'd prefer neither.

I think with Frings back there helping out, it masked some of Iro's deficiencies. I understand the need to have Frings help out in the back, but ultimately for this team to move forward Frings can't be solely responsible for helping back there.

I agree with that. I also would prefer our homegrown youngsters given a chance. But I understand why Winter was attracted to Iro as a player and why he keeps on playing him.

trane
08-15-2011, 10:35 AM
If Frings has to be back there just now, I'd rather he was coaching the likes of Henry and Morgan through the game than Iro or Harden.

Agreed.

Whoop
08-15-2011, 10:39 AM
CB is a position that you get better with experience, similar to goal keeping, alot of his mistakes are metal so he can improve. As many mistakes as I see in Iro make, I just do not see anything in Harden in terms of a long term CB.

I don't think either are long term solutions.

Now we know why Columbus essentially gave up on Iro by not playing him this year.

CoachGT
08-15-2011, 10:42 AM
Oh, and for those who have not read it, there is a fantastic article called How a Soccer Star Is Made on the Ajax system. It also contrasts the way that athletes are developed in North America.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html

Highly recommended reading.

There is also an article on Ajax development in the current FourFourTwo magazine on shelves here - it is the one packaged with the Champions League magazine.

Pookie
08-15-2011, 10:59 AM
But this is the key here.

It's just everyone covering their own ass. By the time those guys have come out of college, some more skilled 18-19 year old has beaten them for a spot on the team.


I agree that it is the key.

A really interesting point to debate is at what age do players generally make a successful transition to the MLS.

You've put forward an assumption the best 18 year olds will play in the MLS and that by the time a player graduates from the NCAA, they will be beaten out.

If you think of Plata (19) or Henry (18) perhaps that holds true. At the same time, we have players like Cordon (18) that just aren't ready yet.

What is the magic age?

In our current roster of 30 players, only 6 are under the age of 20 and of those only Plata, Henry and Stinson (lately) have received "significant" playing time

The rest of the roster is well over 20 years old.

The best 18 year olds, if they are good might crack a roster. Clearly though if they are REALLY good, they won't be in the MLS long.

The bulk of our players are over 20 with a few + 30 year olds hanging around.

If this was the NHL, we'd be seeing that defencemen generally don't come into their own until their mid-20s. The odd can't miss prospect might make the jump at 18 but conventional wisdom suggests that most draft picks generally won't crack an NHL roster until they've celebrated a few birthdays on the other side of 20.

Is 22-23 really too old to play in the MLS?

Canary10
08-15-2011, 11:07 AM
Iro remindes me of Titus Bramble a few years ago. He's a mistake a game kind of player. I get that he hasn't had a lot of playing time, but the things he does to me aren't an issue of playing time. He's slow on his feet, not agile, and not a great passer. Those things won't change with playing time unfortunately. I'll cheer him on game day, but he's at best a stop-gap right now. Don't think Cann is the answer either btw. Priority one in the off-season.

Whoop
08-15-2011, 11:09 AM
I agree that it is the key.

A really interesting point to debate is at what age do players generally make a successful transition to the MLS.

You've put forward an assumption the best 18 year olds will play in the MLS and that by the time a player graduates from the NCAA, they will be beaten out.

If you think of Plata (19) or Henry (18) perhaps that holds true. At the same time, we have players like Cordon (18) that just aren't ready yet.

What is the magic age?

In our current roster of 30 players, only 6 are under the age of 20 and of those only Plata, Henry and Stinson (lately) have received "significant" playing time

The rest of the roster is well over 20 years old.

The best 18 year olds, if they are good might crack a roster. Clearly though if they are REALLY good, they won't be in the MLS long.

The bulk of our players are over 20 with a few + 30 year olds hanging around.

If this was the NHL, we'd be seeing that defencemen generally don't come into their own until their mid-20s. The odd can't miss prospect might make the jump at 18 but conventional wisdom suggests that most draft picks generally won't crack an NHL roster until they've celebrated a few birthdays on the other side of 20.

Is 22-23 really too old to play in the MLS?

Yes/no.

But a player who is 22-23 and has played 4-5 years of professional football should/will be more advanced than a 22-23 coming out of the NCAA.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Don't think Cann is the answer either btw. Priority one in the off-season.

I agree, hes a good second CB but not the leader we need at the back, imo

Pookie
08-15-2011, 11:53 AM
Yes/no.

But a player who is 22-23 and has played 4-5 years of professional football should/will be more advanced than a 22-23 coming out of the NCAA.

Perhaps though it is a blanket statement and overlooks the fact that most "experts" believe that the most critical development period in a soccer player's life will occur before that player reaches 14.

Take a local example.

What if you compared a young player that grows up in the SAAC (Private Academy) model who goes to the NCAA with a player that "trains" in the Club Rep system and comes to the TFC Academy at 17?

Can we really conclude that the Club player will be more advanced 4 years down the road? I'd wager that the SAAC player would likely have a stronger foundation from which to build.

The debate over NCAA vs MLS Academy is sort like debating what kind of sauce to put on your ribs. At the end of the day, if you haven't focused on the preparation and spent over 6 hours cooking them low and slow over a smoker, well... they are going to taste like crap no matter what sauce you go with. Sauce is still important but if you screw up the preparation, you aren't going to get any compliments on your cooking.

The real debate is Academy vs Club. Where is a player's best chance to develop the technical foundation which will help them succeed later on?

Whoop
08-15-2011, 12:14 PM
That's an oversimplification. Yes the pre-teen years are important, but the teen years between 14-18 are just as important.

But that's where you'll see more professional clubs starting academies younger and younger.

I think with the private academies - and I've seen it in hockey - they want to sell the parents on that their academies are important for the development of your child so fork over $10Gs to play at our academy and we'll make sure that before they are 14 they have a solid foundation. And then sell the parents - we'll get your kid a scholarship.

Then in turn the parent is looking for a ROI on their kid. And when it doesn't happen they get pissed.

Pookie
08-15-2011, 12:25 PM
^ the teen years are important too. Teen years though don't address the subject of the NCAA vs the MLS Academy for an +18 year old player. As highlighted in the article on the previous page, a number of Academy players are going to the NCAA. We can argue whether they are really "top rated" but at the end of the day, will their "seasoning" experience really preclude them from an MLS career?

As for the private academies, I think you are oversimplifying that one. Sure there are parents out there looking for ROI. And there are some private Academies out there more than willing to sell them on Euro-dreams.

However, the guiding foundation of SAAC speaks to things like:

- experienced, qualified, career coaches
- higher ratio of training to games, emphasis on training
- focus on individual development vs "team strategy"
- no standings for players U13 and under to reduce the competitive pressure
- enforcement of a parent code of conduct

That is hands down better than what the Club Rep system can offer. Now, I'm not saying ALL clubs can't offer this but speaking from experience as a Rep Coach and with a Board Member placard in our family within the Club environment, the SAAC model is welcomed and should be duplicated.

Your cost estimate is a little off and you'll find that the average Academy price tag is comparable with full year fees, tournaments, additional training, within the club environment. Certainly it is less than playing Rep hockey when the total bills are added up.

It is buyer beware though as not all "Academies" or "Soccer Schools" belong to or are sanctioned by SAAC. Hanging a single outside the Club that says "Academy" doesn't necessarily mean you'll experience what SAAC is promoting.

lobo
08-15-2011, 12:39 PM
Surprising that people are split on bormans performance... i guess he had a jekyl and hyde like game

that's what i saw, some good, some bad, and some funny ... like when he tripped over his own feet on a sitter in the first half

Heathen
08-15-2011, 12:43 PM
that's what i saw, some good, some bad, and some funny ... like when he tripped over his own feet on a sitter in the first half

I'd say the good definitely outweighed the bad though

Whoop
08-15-2011, 12:49 PM
Actually I thought Harden played well after he was subbed in.

I think moving forward I can see Iro and Harden playing a half each. Might be more effective that way. I can't see either of them playing a full 90.

Canary10
08-15-2011, 12:59 PM
that's what i saw, some good, some bad, and some funny ... like when he tripped over his own feet on a sitter in the first half

Borman truly looked like a fullback on that one. Looked like the ball went off his plant foot. An easy mistake to make when you're a fullback and you get that wide eyed look of surprise of having a sure goal.

T-boy
08-15-2011, 12:59 PM
The way some of you guys are talking makes it sound like we just conceded ten goals!

We got a clean sheet! Not long ago we conceded 6 at home!

Apart from ONE error in judgement, I thought Iro had a competant game. Strong in the air, and didn't allow any chances to Real.

lobo
08-15-2011, 12:59 PM
Why do they shoot confetti in the south end at the start of the game? I am pretty sure that's why Borman slipped in front of the RSL goal, negating a great scoring chance, anyone else notice this? It sure looks like it on the replay.

borman tripped himself, sad funny but true

lobo
08-15-2011, 01:01 PM
I'd say the good definitely outweighed the bad though

yah jas, agreed ... borman was very involved in that game

lobo
08-15-2011, 01:05 PM
*Groan*

Spare me. I have no interest in keeping up with the ridiculous amount of schools in the NCAA vs an Academy. This opportunity being taken by kids is entirely understandable, especially from the POV of their parents but this is where they lose me entirely.

Our Academy in CSL? Great. Leaving to go to Rutgers Forrest Miami College of Idaho State?

See you at the SuperDuperDraft.


classic

Dreadlocks
08-15-2011, 03:34 PM
Iro was brought in not just because he's a central defender but becasue he's a LEFT footed central defender. In the past Winter and DeKlerk have made it clear that they need a right footer to play on the right side of the back pair and a left footer for the left.

If anything next year we see either Williams or Cann starting next to Iro.

A left footer in that position is a rare commodity so Iro will see minutes as long as he's on the team.

billyfly
08-15-2011, 03:35 PM
I would have thought for sure the 2 girls making out in 112 would have been on youtube by now.

Yohan
08-15-2011, 03:38 PM
I would have thought for sure the 2 girls making out in 112 would have been on youtube by now.

What. Need to see this now

billyfly
08-15-2011, 03:39 PM
Aisle 11 or 12 in 112. 2 girls on guy's shoulders kept kissing each other and lifting their shirts.

ManUtd4ever
08-15-2011, 03:41 PM
What. Need to see this now

Seriously. I gotta start bringing binoculars to BMO. :D

habstfc
08-15-2011, 08:31 PM
borman tripped himself, sad funny but true

No, he slipped on the confetti, go look at the replay in the game in six. His foot went out from under him like he slipped on ice, had to be the confetti.

London
08-16-2011, 06:15 AM
I would have thought for sure the 2 girls making out in 112 would have been on youtube by now.


Aisle 11 or 12 in 112. 2 girls on guy's shoulders kept kissing each other and lifting their shirts.


pics , we need pics

billyfly
08-16-2011, 08:35 AM
Enough guys were taking photos and recording it.

trane
08-16-2011, 09:24 AM
Iro was brought in not just because he's a central defender but becasue he's a LEFT footed central defender. In the past Winter and DeKlerk have made it clear that they need a right footer to play on the right side of the back pair and a left footer for the left.

If anything next year we see either Williams or Cann starting next to Iro.

A left footer in that position is a rare commodity so Iro will see minutes as long as he's on the team.

My son is a left footer, can he start at CB?


Listen I defend Iro, in that I see what he brings, despite the incredible mistakes he has made, but one cannot start only because he is a left footed player, or because he is listed as a CB, ect. People start because of what they can do in the game, or at least because you think they may develop into something good.

Dreadlocks
08-16-2011, 10:41 AM
My son is a left footer, can he start at CB?


Listen I defend Iro, in that I see what he brings, despite the incredible mistakes he has made, but one cannot start only because he is a left footed player, or because he is listed as a CB, ect. People start because of what they can do in the game, or at least because you think they may develop into something good.

Why would he brought to the team if this was not the case?

Management stated a need and they brought him in thinking that he was young enough and talented enough to grow and bet better with the team.

This is why he will play if he's here (to my dismay. Not a fan...yet)

MartinUtd
08-16-2011, 01:59 PM
Why would he brought to the team if this was not the case?

Management stated a need and they brought him in thinking that he was young enough and talented enough to grow and bet better with the team.

This is why he will play if he's here (to my dismay. Not a fan...yet)

I'm pretty sure they moved for him because they thought he would make an instant upgrade to the back four. Hence trading away Tchani. I've looked at a few articles and even the MLS/TFC release and there's no mention of him being a developing prospect.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/07/toronto-trades-columbus-pair

I see what Iro brings, but I can't argue the fact that he's been an utter disappointment on par with Marco Velez (thus far).

Dreadlocks
08-16-2011, 08:48 PM
I'm pretty sure they moved for him because they thought he would make an instant upgrade to the back four. Hence trading away Tchani. I've looked at a few articles and even the MLS/TFC release and there's no mention of him being a developing prospect.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/07/toronto-trades-columbus-pair

I see what Iro brings, but I can't argue the fact that he's been an utter disappointment on par with Marco Velez (thus far).

Outside of Cann and Williams, who are both injured, Iro is better than any other central defender on the squad. So yes he was supposed to be, and is, an instant upgrade but I think they also saw a young left footed defender that could develop into a core central player on the team.

menefreghista
08-16-2011, 10:02 PM
Iro's a little too old to be a prospect.

He's more of a reclamation project. Hoping that playing time and coaching will help him gain his previous good form.

BeerBaron95
08-16-2011, 11:22 PM
You struggle to put forth a coherent sentence, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone you're at a loss for words. It's like talking to a third grader.

stamp of approval

Petor
08-17-2011, 06:05 PM
Some video I took not long after we scored...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcJRq4Fe69s&hd=1

the-lower-eastsider
08-20-2011, 01:23 PM
Aisle 11 or 12 in 112. 2 girls on guy's shoulders kept kissing each other and lifting their shirts.
where the eff are pictures of this? these chicks were allright! and this all happened right in front of me. in fact, i was one of the guys egging them on. lol. i dont have a camera phone ("sons of jebus" members are forbidden cellphones) or i would have posted some pics. i dont see anything posted in the multi-media section. slackers!
craiger