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Canary10
08-08-2011, 07:15 PM
Any ideas what's up? Has Owen Hargreaves finally landed?

MartinUtd
08-08-2011, 07:18 PM
...on both legs?

Wagner
08-08-2011, 07:19 PM
my guess:
delay of the new stadium...first kick 2012 at new BC place

Darlofletch
08-08-2011, 07:25 PM
new coach, soehn moving back upstairs. martin rennie of the carolina railhawks. much twitter talk of that, apparently carolina have callled a press conference for the same time.

West220Side
08-08-2011, 07:35 PM
...on both legs?

... from a plane at 30,000 feet..
.... without a parachute?

Whoop
08-08-2011, 07:37 PM
If it's Rennie, the Whitecaps took the legs out from under Montreal, as Montreal was interested in Rennie.

ManUtd4ever
08-08-2011, 07:38 PM
Three coaching changes in the first year? Is Vancouver trying to break TFC's record for the most coaches in their first few seasons?

TFCRegina
08-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Benjamin Massey somewhat implied that it might be Dale Mitchell as their new coach. He may have been bullshitting me, but take that for what it's worth.

RedRum
08-08-2011, 08:00 PM
Hargreaves and Mitchell please.

ag futbol
08-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Hargreaves and Mitchell please.
That would be the greatest day ever. I could totally forget about everything that happened this season if this actually went through (on the condition we beat the crap out of them next game, not hard with DM coaching).

Surpirzed they went with a new coach this early, although good move to get soehn outa there.

Damien
08-08-2011, 08:39 PM
Hassli's being release for lack of production

Carts
08-08-2011, 09:07 PM
my guess:
delay of the new stadium...first kick 2012 at new BC place

I don't know if that's the presser for tomorrow - but that is very possible to happen with the current progress of BC Place...

Construction must focus and must be complete in time to host the Grey Cup and the events leading up to it... If there are any more delays, they can leave the Caps at Empire and focus solely on that goal...

Darlofletch
08-08-2011, 09:44 PM
twitter pretty much confirming it's rennie taking over, though doubts apparently remain over where it's immediate, or if he'll be finishing the season out in carolina.

Flipityflu
08-08-2011, 10:24 PM
...on both legs?

does he still have two legs?

Whoop
08-09-2011, 12:03 AM
Marc Weber from the Province is reporting that Martin Rennie will be signing a 3 year deal and will take over for the 2012 season. Soehn will finish the year before moving upstairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Rennie

Batman
08-09-2011, 05:10 AM
Based upon his Bio, it seems like a hell of a good choice.. non stop winning.

mastermixer
08-09-2011, 07:21 AM
Based upon his Bio, it seems like a hell of a good choice.. non stop winning.

Better not be a be a good choice :D

Next year could be interesting... both Vancouver and Toronto looking for redemption from crappy seasons and Montreal coming in to push us around. Should be fun. :scarf:

TOBOR !
08-09-2011, 07:24 AM
Marc Weber from the Province is reporting that Martin Rennie will be signing a 3 year deal and will take over for the 2012 season. Soehn will finish the year before moving upstairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Rennie

Why announce this now ?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 07:24 AM
yeah we will see, dont forget Soehn will still be around meddling.
It remains to be seen how much room and freedom theyll give Rennie to work as well as whether he can handle the pressures of the MLS/Vancouver.

ensco
08-09-2011, 07:31 AM
Imagine picking a guy with a deep knowledge of North American football, and a track record of winning.

I wonder what that's like.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 07:34 AM
sounds good in theory, ill wait to see how it works in practice, dont forget all the dudes he knows are at lower levels, that may not translate in the MLS, not to mention that the VWFO might not allow him to do as he pleases (like they did with Teitur)

Ageroo
08-09-2011, 07:34 AM
Seems like weird timing to announce a coach for next season...but then again it is probably needed. It adds an air of hope to a dismal season for the Shitecaps. Maybe the organization trying to mask the utter stupidity of putting Soehn behind the bench....as they seemed to be doing better when Teitur was manning the ship.

Pookie
08-09-2011, 07:40 AM
3 coaches in 2 years?

They once said Toronto was the model franchise. I guess Vancouver takes that statement seriously.

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 08:48 AM
sounds good in theory, ill wait to see how it works in practice, dont forget all the dudes he knows are at lower levels, that may not translate in the MLS, not to mention that the VWFO might not allow him to do as he pleases (like they did with Teitur)
He's seems to have done well transitioning from the semi-amateur to fully professional level.

Maybe the issue will be that he's so successful VWFC will only be a stop-over.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 08:51 AM
kudos to them it works out, i think its a gamble worth taking but once again i see it as a matter of how much room they give him to work in.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 08:52 AM
could be the FO is stubborn enough to say they dont want to turn over the entire roster again and have another "first" season

ManUtd4ever
08-09-2011, 08:58 AM
Martin Rennie is only 36 years old, but he has a fairly impressive resume considering his age. It will be interesting to see if his successful track record in the USL/USL 2 will translate to the big leagues, where he will be dealing with larger egos in the locker room.

Teitur Thordarson was extremely successful for several years in the USL ranks, but it didn't pan out for him at the MLS level, so there are no guarantees.

rocker
08-09-2011, 08:59 AM
Completely unproven in MLS... but hard to find anyone with MLS experience unless they go with Bradley (not forgetting the fact Soehn actually had MLS experience and still sucked).

What I want to know is whether this new guy will rip apart the roster and bring in his own guys. Or is he stuck with the system and players Soehn wanted.

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 09:05 AM
could be the FO is stubborn enough to say they dont want to turn over the entire roster again and have another "first" season
Watching them play, I really don't think they have to though. The players they have going forward are working well.

This issue for them (a lot like us) is that their central defenders are terrible. Even Demerit has been nowhere near as good as advertised. If they sort that out and add some metal in the middle of the park to assist with Koffie they'll be fine.

I think it would be a huge mistake to do a major overhaul.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 09:06 AM
What I want to know is whether this new guy will rip apart the roster and bring in his own guys. Or is he stuck with the system and players Soehn wanted.

biggest thing right here imo

ManUtd4ever
08-09-2011, 09:12 AM
Imagine picking a guy with a deep knowledge of North American football, and a track record of winning.

I wonder what that's like.

Interesting comment. I'm genuinely curious as to what the reaction of TFC supporters would have been like if Tom Anselmi hired a coach of the ilk of Tom Rennie in January 2011.

Section 117
08-09-2011, 09:23 AM
Imagine picking a guy with a deep knowledge of North American football, and a track record of winning.

I wonder what that's like.

Really??? He has a track record with a second teir professional league. This is who you would rather have as a coach... I bet you he flames out just like Tieter Tots did. Coaching players that are considered boardline amatuer and managing professionals are a completely different.

But hey at least he coached in North America

:picard:

bangersandmash
08-09-2011, 09:34 AM
What I want to know is whether this new guy will rip apart the roster and bring in his own guys. Or is he stuck with the system and players Soehn wanted.

I'm hearing that the Whitecaps are bringing in a consultant with top level international experience to help have a team in place before the new coach arrives. Apparently they've signed a deal with Mo Johnson Soccer and Brazilian Vacations Solutions Incorporated LLP.

ensco
08-09-2011, 09:41 AM
Really??? He has a track record with a second teir professional league. This is who you would rather have as a coach... I bet you he flames out just like Tieter Tots did. Coaching players that are considered boardline amatuer and managing professionals are a completely different.

But hey at least he coached in North America

:picard:


1) We have never hired anyone with North American experience, this is a North American league, figuring out how to build with players that make $50-100K is the skill set over here.

2) We have also never hired anyone who has ever managed beyond the academy level.

Your facepalm and tone seriously bugs me. You disagree, fine. But I have a very legitimate point, supported by a lot of evidence, even if you don't like it.

The USA is a perennial FIFA top 20 team that is entitled to a unique soccer culture. That's the league we play in. The whole business of "bringing the better way from Europe" has to stop, it's been the death of us.

menefreghista
08-09-2011, 09:42 AM
Coaching players that are considered boardline amatuer and managing professionals are a completely different.

What does this say about Winter than?


1) We have never hired anyone with North American experience, this is a North American league, figuring out how to build with players that make $50-100K is the skill set over here.

2) We have also never hired anyone who has ever managed beyond the academy level.

Preki?

I do understand your point though. A coach with North American experience has a better chance of success than a foreign coach who has to learn on the fly. Particularly one that is inexperienced.

Cashcleaner
08-09-2011, 09:44 AM
Hassli's being release for lack of production

http://www.emoticonsworld.org/data/media/72/cereal_guy_4.gif

Hehe. To be honest, I figured it was a coaching announcement. Just didn't think Martin Rennie was gonna be the one in question, though.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 09:46 AM
1) We have never hired anyone with North American experience, this is a North American league, figuring out how to build with players that make $50-100K is the skill set over here.

2) We have also never hired anyone who has ever managed beyond the academy level.

we hired Preki and Mo who both had NA experience, they were just corrupt and/or terrible, both coached first team and i believe Carver was caretaker for a significant amount of time (i might be wrong on that)

ensco
08-09-2011, 09:55 AM
Got mad and forgot Preki. My point still stands.

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 09:57 AM
we hired Preki and Mo who both had NA experience, they were just corrupt and/or terrible, both coached first team and i believe Carver was caretaker for a significant amount of time (i might be wrong on that)
I think there were degrees of contol each coach had over the team. Preki clearly had the most (Mo was running out of rope), followed by Carver, and then Cummins.

These arguments about coaches from different regions are getting sloppy. There are so many dimensions to it is hard to generalize.

Foreign coaches have had a hard time establishing themselves in the league but they generally get less chances to do so. Guys from North America have the most success but they also represent the majority of the coaching pool.

Canary10
08-09-2011, 09:57 AM
1)
The USA is a perennial FIFA top 20 team that is entitled to a unique soccer culture. That's the league we play in. The whole business of "bringing the better way from Europe" has to stop, it's been the death of us.

And both the US men's and women's teams (and Canadian as well) are rethinking the way we play in North America, because it has only gone so far. The US men's team hasn't progressed in years, if anything it has regressed. They are doing some serious rethinking there of how they train and develop players (a Clint Dempsey only comes around so often) because they can't get over the hump against the top flight teams in the world. Same with the women's - how many times did you hear during the last World Cup how so many teams have caught up and surpassed the US in terms of technical ability, and that the US can't play based purely on atheleticism any more? The hiring of Klinsmann for the men's team is charting a new path...

I actually think the approach TFC is taking, and Winter is implementing throughout the organization, toward developing players is a step ahead and at the edge of this new way of thinking, and it's totally necessary if Canada and the US will ever seriously compete on the world stage.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 10:02 AM
These arguments about coaches from different regions are getting sloppy. There are so many dimensions to it is hard to generalize.
.

yep
exactly
People much prefer things in black and white tho

rocker
08-09-2011, 10:04 AM
I don't think "North American" experience generally is really that big of a deal.

In an ideal world, what you want is someone with MLS experience and success at multiple teams, but that pool is about 4 or 5 guys big. Beyond that, I'm not sure it matters cuz MLS is a very different league than D2 or D3. But even MLS experience isn't a guarantee (see Soehn this year in Vancouver, Preki in Toronto, Yallop in SJ, Spencer in Portland -- although Spencer isn't awful, it's not like his MLS experience made Portland a great team right away). Mo Johnston had MLS experience and we saw what happened.

But with time, such as a few years, any responsible and reasonably intelligent coach -- supported by a good GM -- can have some decent success in this league.

Stryker
08-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Imagine picking a guy with a deep knowledge of North American football, and a track record of winning.

I wonder what that's like.
Why don't you give it a rest with your Winter bashing. Your routine has grown tiresome.
The guy inherited a shit team, who despite being shit somehow managed to have a large number of said shit players be overpaid and hes barely had half a season so far.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:08 AM
Preki is a Red Herring. I honestly believe he does know what it takes to win in North America, he simply does not have the personality to coach. We point to Preki is some sort of failure but his crash at the end of last year was because he lost both the lockerroom AND the front office. At the end, he had lost everyone within the organization and nobody would play for him or work for him. Had he been a "better" person with better relationship skills, I think he could have been more successful. I don't view Preki as a coaching failure, I view him as a political failure.

brad
08-09-2011, 10:09 AM
Seems like weird timing to announce a coach for next season...but then again it is probably needed. It adds an air of hope to a dismal season for the Shitecaps. Maybe the organization trying to mask the utter stupidity of putting Soehn behind the bench....as they seemed to be doing better when Teitur was manning the ship.

Is it season ticket renewal time for them?

rocker
08-09-2011, 10:10 AM
Preki is a Red Herring. I honestly believe he does know what it takes to win in North America, he simply does not have the personality to coach. We point to Preki is some sort of failure but his crash at the end of last year was because he lost both the lockerroom AND the front office. At the end, he had lost everyone within the organization and nobody would play for him or work for him. Had he been a "better" person with better relationship skills, I think he could have been more successful. I don't view Preki as a coaching failure, I view him as a political failure.

Those issues didn't pop up in his coaching at LA though.

And I think personality and coaching ability are intertwined and can't be separated in judging a coach overall.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 10:10 AM
prob wanna do it right away as if they leave it long it looks like a rush job, if they do it now, it looks like they are ready to fight immediately next year. Honestly tho, its never a good time to announce a new coach, ideally the one you have is the one that will bring you to glory

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 10:14 AM
And both the US men's and women's teams (and Canadian as well) are rethinking the way we play in North America, because it has only gone so far. The US men's team hasn't progressed in years, if anything it has regressed. They are doing some serious rethinking there of how they train and develop players (a Clint Dempsey only comes around so often) because they can't get over the hump against the top flight teams in the world. Same with the women's - how many times did you hear during the last World Cup how so many teams have caught up and surpassed the US in terms of technical ability, and that the US can't play based purely on atheleticism any more? The hiring of Klinsmann for the men's team is charting a new path...

I actually think the approach TFC is taking, and Winter is implementing throughout the organization, toward developing players is a step ahead and at the edge of this new way of thinking, and it's totally necessary if Canada and the US will ever seriously compete on the world stage.
This all sounds great, but in the end JK or any other coach is going to have to work with the players the system produces. There is a lot of entrenchment and resistance to chance that pose an obstacle to developing the type of players the USA needs to get better. It is also going to take years to happen.

As for your point about Winter, I think the execution of the implementation is what we are hear to debate. Nobody bashes the idea of playing beautiful football. The questions arise as to whether Aron Winter is the guy capable of delivering on that plan or whether what's being proposed is even possible at all.

brad
08-09-2011, 10:15 AM
I don't think "North American" experience generally is really that big of a deal.

In an ideal world, what you want is someone with MLS experience and success at multiple teams, but that pool is about 4 or 5 guys big. Beyond that, I'm not sure it matters cuz MLS is a very different league than D2 or D3. But even MLS experience isn't a guarantee (see Soehn this year in Vancouver, Preki in Toronto, Yallop in SJ, Spencer in Portland -- although Spencer isn't awful, it's not like his MLS experience made Portland a great team right away). Mo Johnston had MLS experience and we saw what happened.

But with time, such as a few years, any responsible and reasonably intelligent coach -- supported by a good GM -- can have some decent success in this league.

If you just keep re-hashing the same coaches/managers, you will never end up with new blood, and likely new ideas introduced to the league will also be slow and may cause stagnation in progress of the leagues quality.

I think the issue is often confused - it is about picking the right management team, not just one with experience.

ensco
08-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Why don't you give it a rest with your Winter bashing. Your routine has grown tiresome.
The guy inherited a shit team, who despite being shit somehow managed to have a large number of said shit players be overpaid and hes barely had half a season so far.

My "routine has grown tiresome", I love it!

Oh btw, have a look, I'm not bashing Winter. Bashing Anselmi and his uninterested bosses.

But please, do carry on, if actually reading what is posted isn't too tiresome for you.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:20 AM
Those issues didn't pop up in his coaching at LA though.

And I think personality and coaching ability are intertwined and can't be separated in judging a coach overall.


Yes those issues certainly did. In fact, rumour is (and it has been retold to me by several players) that the players and staff had a big party when Preki left. Don't you remember that the reason people were so excited when Preki arrived was his "record" at Chivas? With such a record, why would Chivas let him go? He blew himself up, just like he did here.

As for personality and coaching, I think the difference isn't in coaching but in knowledge. I do think Preki had the knowledge to do better. But coaching is most certainly also about "personality" and he simply does not have it. And to be honest, I don't think Winter has it either.

rocker
08-09-2011, 10:23 AM
it is about picking the right management team, not just one with experience.

Yes, and patience too. Guys like Gary Smith, Schellas Hyndman, Jason Kreis only showed over time that they were the right choices. Their teams didn't burst on the scene in Year 1 and kick butt. Actually, neither Smith nor Hyndman got their teams into the playoffs in Year 2 either.

Rennie could turn out to be a good choice but he needs to be given time and resources.

rocker
08-09-2011, 10:24 AM
Yes those issues certainly did. In fact, rumour is (and it has been retold to me by several players) that the players and staff had a big party when Preki left. Don't you remember that the reason people were so excited when Preki arrived was his "record" at Chivas? With such a record, why would Chivas let him go? He blew himself up, just like he did here.

As for personality and coaching, I think the difference isn't in coaching but in knowledge. I do think Preki had the knowledge to do better. But coaching is most certainly also about "personality" and he simply does not have it. And to be honest, I don't think Winter has it either.

But it didn't affect his record in LA, which was still decent.

Which proves my point that you can't separate the coaching ability from the personality. Unless you have a better way of judging coaching ability than wins and losses.....

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:28 AM
But it didn't affect his record in LA, which was still decent.

Which proves my point that you can't separate the coaching ability from the personality. Unless you have a better way of judging coaching ability than wins and losses.....


It did affect his record. His record got progressively worse with each season after he took over from Bradley. To the point where it was affecting player signings and lockerroom environment. Almost every analyst has pointed to Chivas underperforming after having a promising roster of players.

We talk about a "cancer" in the TFC lockerroom and yet we imported one in but blamed others for it.

West220Side
08-09-2011, 10:28 AM
Question is if it is Rennie.
If he does chalk up the team, and rebuild it as his own. Will he bring in a bunch of USL Talent into the MLS?
Will they be good enough?
Will Vancouver essentially just have another flop year, and follow in Torontos footsteps hiring yet another manager? (if Rennie flops)

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 10:30 AM
Yes, and patience too. Guys like Gary Smith, Schellas Hyndman, Jason Kreis only showed over time that they were the right choices. Their teams didn't burst on the scene in Year 1 and kick butt. Actually, neither Smith nor Hyndman got their teams into the playoffs in Year 2 either.
Ok, maybe they didn't burst onto the scene and "kick butt", but none of these managers showed a level of futility we have this season.

TO DEVILS
08-09-2011, 10:30 AM
Yes those issues certainly did. In fact, rumour is (and it has been retold to me by several players) that the players and staff had a big party when Preki left. Don't you remember that the reason people were so excited when Preki arrived was his "record" at Chivas? With such a record, why would Chivas let him go? He blew himself up, just like he did here.

As for personality and coaching, I think the difference isn't in coaching but in knowledge. I do think Preki had the knowledge to do better. But coaching is most certainly also about "personality" and he simply does not have it. And to be honest, I don't think Winter has it either.

In today's modern era of football, a coach has the need to become more of a father, psychiatrist, philosopher, motivator and leader than actually coaching drills and passes.

I am not saying he doesn't have to do it, but his job doesn't start and finish with what is done on the practice field.

The coach needs to become a psychiatrist to his players to be able to understand them, relate to them, and be able to get the most out of them.

If you listen to players that played for Mourinho all say that he was like a father figure to him, and i think that is key to his success.

I don't care how good a coach is technically, if he isn't able to have the relationship with his players where they become almost like his kids and they know he will battle for them as long as they battle for the coach on the field, no coach will be successful.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:31 AM
Vancouver has the luxury of this being their expansion year. So whether Rennie can turn it around in 10 games is pretty unimportant to the organization as they are guaranteed to miss the playoffs and don't have the CCL to concern themselves with.

They should just be thankful Soehn isn't coaching anymore. Awful. Simply awful. I hear he has a good eye for talent, but that may be his only positive.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:32 AM
In today's modern era of football, a coach has the need to become more of a father, psychiatrist, philosopher, motivator and leader than actually coaching drills and passes.

I am not saying he doesn't have to do it, but his job doesn't start and finish with what is done on the practice field.

The coach needs to become a psychiatrist to his players to be able to understand them, relate to them, and be able to get the most out of them.

If you listen to players that played for Mourinho all say that he was like a father figure to him, and i think that is key to his success.

I don't care how good a coach is technically, if he isn't able to have the relationship with his players where they become almost like his kids and they know he will battle for them as long as they battle for the coach on the field, no coach will be successful.


THIS!

Canary10
08-09-2011, 10:32 AM
Vancouver has the luxury of this being their expansion year. So whether Rennie can turn it around in 10 games is pretty unimportant to the organization as they are guaranteed to miss the playoffs and don't have the CCL to concern themselves with.

They should just be thankful Soehn isn't coaching anymore. Awful. Simply awful. I hear he has a good eye for talent, but that may be his only positive.

Not yet. Rennie doesn't start until next year.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Not yet. Rennie doesn't start until next year.


I missed the presser. That was a question I think everyone was asking. Makes sense.

To be honest, with the skill that Vancouver has, if Rennie is indeed a quality coach (as appears to be the case) TFC may have more trouble defending our NCC title than we'd like, not to mention the league.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Yes, and patience too. Guys like Gary Smith, Schellas Hyndman, Jason Kreis only showed over time that they were the right choices. Their teams didn't burst on the scene in Year 1 and kick butt. Actually, neither Smith nor Hyndman got their teams into the playoffs in Year 2 either.

Rennie could turn out to be a good choice but he needs to be given time and resources.

or Schmidt at Columbus

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 10:36 AM
I missed the presser. That was a question I think everyone was asking. Makes sense.

To be honest, with the skill that Vancouver has, if Rennie is indeed a quality coach (as appears to be the case) TFC may have more trouble defending our NCC title than we'd like, not to mention the league.

i definitely wouldnt take them for granted, also depends on how prepared we are. i think we might have the upper hand only because our currently new squad (provided it doesnt get blown up again, which i doubt will happen) will have played together longer. Remember, even if the players are talented Rennie may still not want them or find they fit his system, whatever that is

Brooker
08-09-2011, 10:37 AM
Got mad and forgot Preki. My point still stands.

Did you forget Mo Johnston, too?

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 10:37 AM
I don't care how good a coach is technically, if he isn't able to have the relationship with his players where they become almost like his kids and they know he will battle for them as long as they battle for the coach on the field, no coach will be successful.
I wouldn't take it this far, this to me is almost like one school of coaching thought that has been successful but far from the only one.

I think what every coach needs is a sense of professional sensibility that players respect. In order to gain respect they could do the routine you described above but ultimately I think the characteristics they are looking for are accountability and consistency.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 10:40 AM
Ok, maybe they didn't burst onto the scene and "kick butt", but none of these managers showed a level of futility we have this season.

Thats debateable, i mean we did switch our entire roster halfway through the season, we've literally seen two different teams play this season, i dont think any of those coaches encountered that same issue (obviously please correct me if ive overlooked something)

West220Side
08-09-2011, 10:43 AM
I missed the presser. That was a question I think everyone was asking. Makes sense.


Its only 8:40am in Vancouver, presser is scheduled for 10:30am (IN VANCOUVER) You havn't missed it.

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/2011/08/whitecaps-fc-set-make-important-announcement-tomorrow-morning



On Tuesday morning at 10:30 a.m. PT, Vancouver Whitecaps FC will make an important club announcement.
'Caps fans will be able to watch Tuesday's press conference live on whitecapsfc.com/live (http://www.whitecapsfc.com/live/).

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 10:48 AM
Did you forget Mo Johnston, too?


Are we really going to call 17 games, 5 of which he was interim coach, "North American experience"?

ensco
08-09-2011, 10:53 AM
Did you forget Mo Johnston, too?

Nope.

He had no management credentials period before he came here.

Stryker
08-09-2011, 10:53 AM
My "routine has grown tiresome", I love it!

Oh btw, have a look, I'm not bashing Winter. Bashing Anselmi and his uninterested bosses.

But please, do carry on, if actually reading what is posted isn't too tiresome for you.
Just because you didn't mention Winter by name doesnt mean your usual slights on him werent intended.

Stryker
08-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Nope.

He hasd no management credentials period before he came here.

And here I thought you were just angry like the rest of us. Turns out you were actually unknowledgable. Well dismissing what little you have to say will certainly be easier now.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 11:03 AM
You call 17 games "management credentials"?

Whoop
08-09-2011, 11:04 AM
He wasn't even a GM with New York, he was just the coach for 17 games.

He was also an assistant to Bradley.

But he had no management experience.

ManUtd4ever
08-09-2011, 11:13 AM
And both the US men's and women's teams (and Canadian as well) are rethinking the way we play in North America, because it has only gone so far. The US men's team hasn't progressed in years, if anything it has regressed. They are doing some serious rethinking there of how they train and develop players (a Clint Dempsey only comes around so often) because they can't get over the hump against the top flight teams in the world. Same with the women's - how many times did you hear during the last World Cup how so many teams have caught up and surpassed the US in terms of technical ability, and that the US can't play based purely on atheleticism any more? The hiring of Klinsmann for the men's team is charting a new path...

I actually think the approach TFC is taking, and Winter is implementing throughout the organization, toward developing players is a step ahead and at the edge of this new way of thinking, and it's totally necessary if Canada and the US will ever seriously compete on the world stage.

Agreed.

Stryker
08-09-2011, 11:20 AM
He wasn't even a GM with New York, he was just the coach for 17 games.

He was also an assistant to Bradley.

But he had no management experience.

I'll concede that he had no previous management experience in the strictest cense of the word, but coaching is managing to some degree.

TFCRegina
08-09-2011, 11:22 AM
Imagine picking a guy with a deep knowledge of North American football, and a track record of winning.

I wonder what that's like.

Didn't Teitur Thordason not work out for them the first time?

NASL success is no guarantee of MLS success.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 11:23 AM
same goes for any league, dudes a gamble the same as the rest

Gazza
08-09-2011, 11:23 AM
Another thread derailed by the same detractors.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 11:25 AM
surprised?

Beach_Red
08-09-2011, 11:27 AM
Interesting comment. I'm genuinely curious as to what the reaction of TFC supporters would have been like if Tom Anselmi hired a coach of the ilk of Tom Rennie in January 2011.

If Anselmi hired the guy this board would be screaming about Anselmi knowing nothing about soccer and being unqualified to select a manager.

If Anselmi hired a consultant with a track record who then hired this guy the board would be split between, "give him more time," and "not seeing enough progress."

Vancouver is trying to run the team themselves (like RSL) and it may or may not work very well and Anselmi is taking the advice of Garber (hiring Mo and then hiring Soccer Solutions) and it may or may not not work.

So, they're just different philosophies.

TO DEVILS
08-09-2011, 11:28 AM
I wouldn't take it this far, this to me is almost like one school of coaching thought that has been successful but far from the only one.

I think what every coach needs is a sense of professional sensibility that players respect. In order to gain respect they could do the routine you described above but ultimately I think the characteristics they are looking for are accountability and consistency.

The mistake is calling it "routine".

Players are not stupid, and they can tell when a coach means what he says or he is blowing smoke up their collective asses.

A coach needs to speak to the lowest common denominator on his team, make them understand that without his players a coach is nothing. The coach is not their boss, but rather part of their team.

Good coaches take the approach, that the team wins games, and the coaches loses games. A coach is the Teflon that protects his team from the outside elements.

And like any good father, sometimes you have to tell your "kids" that you are disappointed in them, but not in front of the peers or strangers, because that will get you nowhere.

Show that you are willing to put in extra work as long as they are willing to put in extra work....if you have a defender who is weak on transition offer to stay back with him after practice and spend sometime "coaching" him to where he needs to be.

Players are kids with big bank accounts, but they still are kids. So they need to be treated as such without making them feel like they are being treated as children.

To me these are the characteristics of a good coach. Not saying other can't succeed, but in today's game continuous success as been on the shoulders of those who understand that there is more to a soccer player than what he does on the field.

Stryker
08-09-2011, 11:28 AM
Another thread derailed by the same detractors.
I don't think I'm one of the usual detractors but I'll apologize for my part in the derailment none the less and step away from the argument.

Brooker
08-09-2011, 11:37 AM
Are we really going to call 17 games, 5 of which he was interim coach, "North American experience"?

My point wasn't to argue how much or how good it was, but it was by definition experience.... which ensco was claiming and is still stubbornly claiming never existed.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 11:42 AM
I wouldn't call that experience. And not because I support Ensco's point. That would be my position regardless of the point being made.

"Experience" in my mind indicates a track record. Indicates showing ability in all aspects of the job that is required. Mo did no rebuilding. He did no extended periods of coaching. And he definitely had no success whether it be because of skill or time. Without those elements, you can't point to a person having experience more than I can call myself a race car driver just because I took a lap in an indy car.

Experience is more than stepping into someone's shoes for a brief moment in time.

Rennie on the other hand is different. Despite being in D2, he at least has a track record to fall back on. Mo did not.

All coaching hirings are a gamble. Some do not work out despite all the due diligence in the world and some work out despite being taken out of thin air.

But the responsible thing for an organization to do is make the best educated guess possible taking all aspects into consideration and frankly, making the choice with the least risk. Vancouver seems to have done that. I would argue Toronto did not. In my industry, what we did with Winter and with MoJo is called a "punt" and it may work out with Winter, it certainly did not with MoJo. In other industries, it's called a Hail Mary. Either way, it's a high-risk move and I think fans deserve something more thought out.

Brooker
08-09-2011, 11:52 AM
lol it's experience no matter how you spin it. good day.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 11:55 AM
lol it's experience no matter how you spin it. good day.

:lol:

Riiight. So a guy coaches for one game and you'd still call that experience. That's not surprising.

ManUtd4ever
08-09-2011, 11:56 AM
All coaching hirings are a gamble. Some do not work out despite all the due diligence in the world and some work out despite being taken out of thin air.

But the responsible thing for an organization to do is make the best educated guess possible taking all aspects into consideration and frankly, making the choice with the least risk. Vancouver seems to have done that. I would argue Toronto did not. In my industry, what we did with Winter and with MoJo is called a "punt" and it may work out with Winter, it certainly did not with MoJo. In other industries, it's called a Hail Mary. Either way, it's a high-risk move and I think fans deserve something more thought out.

Everything is relative. As Beach Red accurately pointed out, the fact that a highly respected consulting firm was directly involved in the recruiting process changes the optics of the situation dramatically. I remember when MLSE announced that Jurgen Klinsmann was hired as a consultant, the support for that decision was practically unanimous. Tom Anselmi recognized that he did not have the credentials or the connections within the industry to undertake such a crucial assignment, and acted accordingly. Whether you agree with the final decision or not, one could argue that in light of that fact, MLSE did use due diligence in assembling the current management regime.

Oldtimer
08-09-2011, 11:57 AM
So, going back on topic, how do people feel about the Whitecaps new coach? has anyone seen the Railhawks play?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 11:58 AM
:lol:

Riiight. So a guy coaches for one game and you'd still call that experience. That's not surprising.

Limited experience but experience none the less

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 12:02 PM
Everything is relative. As Beach Red accurately pointed out, the fact that a highly respected consulting firm was directly involved in the recruiting process changes the optics of the situation dramatically. I remember when MLSE announced that Jurgen Klinsmann was hired as a consultant, the support for that decision was practically unanimous. Tom Anselmi recognized that he did not have the credentials or the connections within the industry to undertake such a crucial assignment, and acted accordingly. Whether you agree with the final decision or not, one could argue that in light of that fact, MLSE did in fact use due diligence in assembling the current management regime.

I would agree with this at least. Uncle Tom is a numpty when it comes to Soccer (or sports in general). He knows nothing. So he did what someone who does not know anything should do, he went to someone who was pitched to him as knowledgeable.

I think the mistake here did fall on the "consultant" himself. Consultants are not error-free. And in this case, the recommendation was a head-scratcher. Knowing the pressures this organization was under and the need for stability and immediate progress (not results) he decided to recommend a rookie with absolutely no experience in this particular exercise?

In Year 1, I think Winter is a good choice. In Year 5 of nothing but disappointment he was not. And seeing what has happened with Klinsmann in the US, I am beginning to wonder if there was not another agenda influencing his recommendations rather than what should have been the only agenda on his mind, the immediate and long-term benefit of Toronto FC and the satisfaction of the fans.

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Limited experience but experience none the less

Limited experience is just another way of saying "not enough experience".

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 12:09 PM
But this is again getting into that crappy area of labeling things black and white.

Roogsy has a valid point, all experience is not created equal. That's not to say past experience is useless if it revolves around managing a meddling team, but i think it's preferable to see a track record of success.

I think if we were to judge the weight of this move by the whitecaps on paper, it looks pretty good. It's not re-hashing the existing MLS coaching pool but reaching outside of it to get someone who shows strong signs of progress and is still pretty young.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:12 PM
experience is experience.
lets get back to the fucking topic which is rennie.
As someone else asked, has anyone seen Rennies teams at all?

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 12:13 PM
But Rennie's experience is part of the topic.

What are we supposed to talk about, his favourite movie?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:13 PM
formations?
strategy?
playing style?

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 12:14 PM
formations?
strategy?
playing style?

But his experience is not worthy of discussion even though it directly relates to these very things you think should be discussed?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:16 PM
hey i said experience is experience.
i dont want to discuss anyones ideas on how important their idea of experience is.

i want to discuss what this guy brings to the table with whatever experience he has

Oldtimer
08-09-2011, 12:18 PM
The guy has solid D2 experience. It's a reasonable gamble that he could make the jump to MLS. It's a gamble, nonetheless.

Some coaches have succeeded in jumping from D2 or NCAA coaching to MLS, but others haven't.

(interesting sidenote, the RailHawks only get 2,200 per match. Wow).

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 12:19 PM
I think the mistake here did fall on the "consultant" himself. Consultants are not error-free. And in this case, the recommendation was a head-scratcher. Knowing the pressures this organization was under and the need for stability and immediate progress (not results) he decided to recommend a rookie with absolutely no experience in this particular exercise?

The problem with people who hire consultants is they often play both sides of the coin. They admit they know nothing, but on the other hand they can't help but stick their hands in the decision making process. The consultant is often handcuffed into making choices that limit the effectiveness of their decisions to appease management's ego. Ultimately, the second thing becomes more important than the first because it's hard to get repeat business if you tell the people that hire you that they are idiots.

Which brings us to the process that JK used to do his search. Was it the best solution, or was it the best bastardized solution he could make out of a bad situation? Remember, a couple of months in it seemed like it was full steam ahead with Earl Cochrane and Dasovic.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:19 PM
anyone know what kind of style he plays?
what kind of players he brings in?

Yohan
08-09-2011, 12:21 PM
The guy has solid D2 experience. It's a reasonable gamble that he could make the jump to MLS. It's a gamble, nonetheless.

Some coaches have succeeded in jumping from D2 or NCAA coaching to MLS, but others haven't.

(interesting sidenote, the RailHawks only get 2,200 per match. Wow).
what coaching change isn't a gamble, esp in MLS?

coaches gotta start somewhere right? heck, it's not like guys like Schmid or Arena started off loaded with experience before getting into MLS

Roogsy
08-09-2011, 12:21 PM
I know the "Charleston" people have had good exposure to him. I never followed the Battery but they seemed to have gone through a few period of success, rebirth and success under Rennie so I would say it bodes well for Vancouver to bring a guy who knows how to work from the ground up.

Beach_Red
08-09-2011, 12:22 PM
I would agree with this at least. Uncle Tom is a numpty when it comes to Soccer (or sports in general). He knows nothing. So he did what someone who does not know anything should do, he went to someone who was pitched to him as knowledgeable.

I think the mistake here did fall on the "consultant" himself. Consultants are not error-free. And in this case, the recommendation was a head-scratcher. Knowing the pressures this organization was under and the need for stability and immediate progress (not results) he decided to recommend a rookie with absolutely no experience in this particular exercise?

In Year 1, I think Winter is a good choice. In Year 5 of nothing but disappointment he was not. And seeing what has happened with Klinsmann in the US, I am beginning to wonder if there was not another agenda influencing his recommendations rather than what should have been the only agenda on his mind, the immediate and long-term benefit of Toronto FC and the satisfaction of the fans.

But this organization isn't under any pressure, that's the beauty of it. TFC is such a small part of it. No one above TFC level (so not Anselmi) is ever going to lose their job over TFC. At least not for years (they've already made more profit than projected) and MLSE will have been sold by then.

So this is really the ideal time to institute a "long-term" plan. They've lost a bunch of season ticket holders who are knowlegeable fans (the entire row I sit in in 224, for example) and those are the ones they need to get back. A short-term, quick fix solution would not get those people buying season tickets again. The organiztion can easily afford to take a year or two to try and get this right and that will give them a stable base of season ticket buyers.

There's probably a detailed marketng report about this that was used to free up the money for the consultant.

Oldtimer
08-09-2011, 12:22 PM
It looks like most people know zilch about this guy, and want to move the discussion about the Winter approval thread to here. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!:willy_nilly: ARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

Oldtimer
08-09-2011, 12:23 PM
I know the "Charleston" people have had good exposure to him. I never followed the Battery but they seemed to have gone through a few period of success, rebirth and success under Rennie so I would say it bodes well for Vancouver to bring a guy who knows how to work from the ground up.

A good point.

Beach_Red
08-09-2011, 12:27 PM
It looks like most people know zilch about this guy, and want to move the discussion about the Winter approval thread to here. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!:willy_nilly:

We have to strike while the threads are still open ;).

Is 2,200 that bad? In the US only two levels of sports really get much attendance, top level pro leagues and school sports - high school and college. It's a challenge for soccer, no doubt.

TFC07
08-09-2011, 12:29 PM
So Vancouver is going to hire a 2nd American division coach? Interesting!

Seems like Toronto and Vancouver tend to be very opposite to each other when comes to their club and management. Toronto tends to favour more European style while Vancouver tends to be more American.

Whoop
08-09-2011, 12:32 PM
The guy has solid D2 experience. It's a reasonable gamble that he could make the jump to MLS. It's a gamble, nonetheless.

Some coaches have succeeded in jumping from D2 or NCAA coaching to MLS, but others haven't.

(interesting sidenote, the RailHawks only get 2,200 per match. Wow).


Surprise? It's D2. 2,200 doesn't sound that bad.

What do other teams average?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:33 PM
RE: the routes van and tfc have gone, id debate that.
ALso a bit surprised that Hamlett wasnt given a go

West220Side
08-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Why am I watching Nowak on the Whitecaps Live feed?

Whoop
08-09-2011, 12:34 PM
anyone know what kind of style he plays?
what kind of players he brings in?

You're not going to find that answer since I guarantee 99.9% of the board haven't seen the Railhawks play.

That's why people are discussing his experience.

Based on his track record, he seems to have done well at each level as he's progressed through the different divisions.

TFCRegina
08-09-2011, 12:35 PM
You're not going to find that answer since I guarantee 99.9% of the board haven't seen the Railhawks play.

That's why people are discussing his experience.

Based on his track record, he seems to have done well at each level as he's progressed through the different divisions.

I'll go ask the people at the FC Edmonton boards.

Whoop
08-09-2011, 12:37 PM
I know the "Charleston" people have had good exposure to him. I never followed the Battery but they seemed to have gone through a few period of success, rebirth and success under Rennie so I would say it bodes well for Vancouver to bring a guy who knows how to work from the ground up.


A good point.

Two different teams.

And two different leagues.

Though they did play in the same league in 2009.

Canary10
08-09-2011, 12:40 PM
I find the whole thing odd. They obviously knew from day 1 Teitur wasn't their man. Why didn't they just let him go last year? I also find it odd to announce a guy who won't start until next year. Perhaps it's an availability issue (does he have a contract he has to play out?).

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 12:40 PM
Well that was a quick presser.

He mentioned he was excited to work with the existing team, so it doesn't sound like he'll be trying to blow it up.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:40 PM
to be clear, i dont mind discussing HIS experience.

what im not interested in doing is discussing different members opinions of what 'experience' consists of. I also dont want to discuss whether our previous coaches had enough 'exprience' and how that reflects on our current coaches 'experience' as its something we've beaten to death in a billion other threads.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Well that was a quick presser.

He mentioned he was excited to work with the existing team, so it doesn't sound like he'll be trying to blow it up.

there ya go, this is what i want to know about.
sounds interesting.

West220Side
08-09-2011, 12:45 PM
http://a1.twimg.com/profile_images/1168074378/logosqaure_normal.jpg (http://mobile.twitter.com/whitecapsfc) WhitecapsFC (http://mobile.twitter.com/whitecapsfc) #WhitecapsFC (http://mobile.twitter.com/searches?q=%23WhitecapsFC) appoint Martin Rennie as the club's #MLS (http://mobile.twitter.com/searches?q=%23MLS) head coach for the 2012 season - whitecapsfc.com/news/2011/08/w… (http://t.co/QiCKs4B)

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 12:46 PM
there ya go, this is what i want to know about.
sounds interesting.
Maybe a necessary political plug, but he did really emphasize his style was going to fit into what they were already doing.

Makes sense. TT might be gone but all the other guys in the whitecaps front office are still there, nobody who steps in is going to have full flexibility. It's a different setup from Toronto where the hierarchy basically stops at Winter.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Maybe a necessary political plug, but he did really emphasize his style was going to fit into what they were already doing.

Makes sense. TT might be gone but all the other guys in the whitecaps front office are still there, nobody who steps in is going to have full flexibility. It's a different setup from Toronto where the hierarchy basically stops at Winter.

yep this may become a sticking point, i guess we will see. it takes alot for something like this to work. Wonder how long theyll give him. feel like vancouver is bent and impatient for glory.

ryan
08-09-2011, 12:55 PM
yep this may become a sticking point, i guess we will see. it takes alot for something like this to work. Wonder how long theyll give him. feel like vancouver is bent and impatient for glory.

I think they are out to do whatever it takes to not do what TFC did in it's first 5 seasons.


i.e. Shit the bed and roll around in it.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 12:58 PM
I think they are out to do whatever it takes to not do what TFC did in it's first 5 seasons.


i.e. Shit the bed and roll around in it.

HAHAHA
dont blame em, cant say ive seen too much to believe theyve avoided a similar path (mostly im thinking of TT and his treatment but thats another thread)

Canary10
08-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I think they are out to do whatever it takes to not do what TFC did in it's first 5 seasons.


i.e. Shit the bed and roll around in it.

So they decided to do that by giving a guy, what, 2 months in the coaching role before firing him (couldn't they have figured out before the season that he wasn't their long-term coach), and then hiring a guy in the summer 2011 to start coach in 2010? Seems like a team that doesn't know what it's doing.

If we want to start hiring guys for the future, I'm going to announce today the TFC signing of Wayne Rooney for the 2020 season...

Canary10
08-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Coaching in 2012 that should read...

DichioTFC
08-09-2011, 01:12 PM
the vancouver / toronto debate is probably worthy of a couple poll questions; which team is worse run now, and which team will be run worse in five years.

Oldtimer
08-09-2011, 01:15 PM
the vancouver / toronto debate is probably worthy of a couple poll questions; which team is worse run now, and which team will be run worse in five years.

We have too many polls as it is.

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 01:23 PM
So they decided to do that by giving a guy, what, 2 months in the coaching role before firing him (couldn't they have figured out before the season that he wasn't their long-term coach), and then hiring a guy in the summer 2011 to start coach in 2010? Seems like a team that doesn't know what it's doing.


yep pretty much what i was getting at.
Also feel like it was a kneejerk reaction but a reasonable one as dude seems to have a decent record albeit at a lower level

TFC07
08-09-2011, 02:02 PM
the vancouver / toronto debate is probably worthy of a couple poll questions; which team is worse run now, and which team will be run worse in five years.

Vancouver!

Toronto has a lot of young players with great upside to perform well in MLS. Our management so far have done a good job overall. We just need stability now!

Vancouver has a lot of question marks and we don't really know what kind of plans they have for the future. They got couple great young players and few more from their academy and plus their DP is doing the job right now, but besides that, their management hasn't been that great. I get the feeling their new coach is going to be a bust which will force Vancouver to get another coach for next season.

Both clubs are taking different direction with their clubs. Toronto is adopting more European style of building their club while Vancouver taking more North American approach (based on their moves they're making).

rocker
08-09-2011, 02:21 PM
quotes from Rennie...

“Playing wise, I like to keep possession of the ball as best we can,” said Rennie, whose RailHawks have employed a very aggressive 4-3-3 formation this season. “I like to penetrate when we get into the opposition’s half – not just keep the ball for the sake of it. I also want to make us very hard to play against. Teams I’ve coached have regularly been good defensively, hard to beat and hard to break down – that’s the bedrock of all good teams – they don’t lose goals, they defend well, but they also try to build from the back and play entertaining soccer.”

TFC07
08-09-2011, 02:33 PM
quotes from Rennie...

“Playing wise, I like to keep possession of the ball as best we can,” said Rennie, whose RailHawks have employed a very aggressive 4-3-3 formation this season. “I like to penetrate when we get into the opposition’s half – not just keep the ball for the sake of it. I also want to make us very hard to play against. Teams I’ve coached have regularly been good defensively, hard to beat and hard to break down – that’s the bedrock of all good teams – they don’t lose goals, they defend well, but they also try to build from the back and play entertaining soccer.”

Based on that quote, looks like Vancouver need to get rid of most of their players in off-season and start all over again like TFC this season.

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 02:44 PM
Based on that quote, looks like Vancouver need to get rid of most of their players in off-season and start all over again like TFC this season.
I really don't think that's going to be necessary. Objectively, looking at that team (other than the backline which is a mess) who would you get rid of and why?

I would have no problem slotting in any of Camilo, Hassli, Chiumiento, Salinas, and Koffie into a 4-3-3.

In fact depending on what he's referring to as a 4-3-3, he could simply be talking about a 4-2-3-1 which I've seen the whitecaps play on occasion already.

ManUtd4ever
08-09-2011, 02:49 PM
Yeah, I think Vancouver currently has 4-5 starters that can play variations of the 4-3-3 effectively, but there is definitely work to be done in the off season to address their backline.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 02:53 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/luke_wileman/?id=373500

Luke Wilemans article on the hiring

Ossington Mental Youth
08-09-2011, 02:53 PM
Yeah, I think Vancouver currently has 4-5 starters that can play variations of the 4-3-3 effectively, but there is definitely work to be done in the off season to address their backline.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

odd how that whole coaching change/player change works huh?

TFC07
08-09-2011, 02:59 PM
I really don't think that's going to be necessary. Objectively, looking at that team (other than the backline which is a mess) who would you get rid of and why?

I would have no problem slotting in any of Camilo, Hassli, Chiumiento, Salinas, and Koffie into a 4-3-3.

In fact depending on what he's referring to as a 4-3-3, he could simply be talking about a 4-2-3-1 which I've seen the whitecaps play on occasion already.

They need to add depth and get rid of dead weight. They got like 6 or 7 players to keep, but they need to add depth and starters (defenders and perhaps a goalkeeper as well).

ag futbol
08-09-2011, 04:48 PM
They need to add depth and get rid of dead weight. They got like 6 or 7 players to keep, but they need to add depth and starters (defenders and perhaps a goalkeeper as well).
Ok, but that hardly sounds like an overhaul or starting over.

The players they have currently that are worth keeping can be used in the 4-3-3 and the other parts had to be replaced anyway.

Whoop
08-11-2011, 07:32 PM
Interesting to hear Martin Rennie talking about being flexible in his formations.

Also has a business background.