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justin
08-06-2011, 08:35 PM
holy shit, discuss iro being horrible tonight.

Globetrotter
08-06-2011, 08:36 PM
Shit teams are one's that cannot win with over 95 minutes of a man advantage.

J .
08-06-2011, 08:36 PM
Just horrible

billyfly
08-06-2011, 08:37 PM
Just release Iro.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 08:37 PM
I have no interest in having Winter back next year if we continue on at this pace.

crucify me all you want, he's had enough time to put at least a decent squad together and we lay an absolute egg playing up a man for 80 minutes.

InDa_110
08-06-2011, 08:38 PM
I miss DeRo....

Keyman
08-06-2011, 08:38 PM
I don't even know what to say after that performance. What can you say?

Globetrotter
08-06-2011, 08:38 PM
playing up a man for 80 minutes.

Guy is sent off at minute 7.

4+ minutes extra in first half
nearly 8 minutes extra second half.

We're closer to 95 minutes.

Benficachop20
08-06-2011, 08:39 PM
lol people were questioning if Henry should start.

Iro is by far the worst defender in the history of the club, and that's saying a lot.

Wat a trade with dero huh? we got Borman and fucking Iro in the end based on trading Dero lol. worst tranfer in history.

btw 3 games in a row Iro caused a pk.

flatpicker
08-06-2011, 08:39 PM
We are one solid defender away from winning the cup!

:D

Gazza
08-06-2011, 08:39 PM
Just when you thought you couldn't hate a scouse anymore than you already did....

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 08:40 PM
This has to be one of the most dissapointing results this season. And that says alot considering some of the bullshit we've watched.

Andy Iro had a Garcia like appearance tonight. Can't say that I didn't predict that. He's looked terrible since he got here. Well maybe like Garcia he'll make somewhat of a bounce back?

InDa_110
08-06-2011, 08:40 PM
Remind why we didn't pay him what he wanted?

Look at us now.

We got rid of horrible shitty players, for just shitty players...

We should have paid Dero.......period

QSIM
08-06-2011, 08:56 PM
Simple question:

Iro or Harden?

harrietgate
08-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Looking at De Ro, our boy, and thinking, "What the hell are you doing playing for them?"
They were mad to let him go.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Remind why we didn't pay him what he wanted?

Look at us now.

We got rid of horrible shitty players, for just shitty players...

We should have paid Dero.......period

Haven't you heard, at 33 years old he was supposed to turn into a pumpkin. He was going to be old, and slow with no ability to make an impact on a game any longer. Oh, and NY traded him away, so he obviously sucks.

Flint
08-06-2011, 08:58 PM
Talk about fucking with your emotions...

Anyway, I'm not too sour over this game. Minus iro we win 3-1. Besides that there were positives to take away from that game.

smtavare
08-06-2011, 08:58 PM
10 men dc squad, Frei should have had first goal, and atleast in his career save a fuckin Penalty for fucks sakes, IRO sucks period, I'm done with THIS MLSE BULLSHIT.

I will be arranging a huge street party with leafs, rapters, marlies and tfc fans when MLSE finally sells the shares. It will be a bigger party then if the leafs ever win the stanley cup


fuck u MLSE

RedsOnTop
08-06-2011, 08:58 PM
I was thinking we need to give Iro some time, but clearly tonight he has shown he is complete garbage. On the bright side, that might have been the best 30 minutes of DeGuzman's TFC career. :) Also, Marosevic showed again that he was a good pickup.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 08:59 PM
Damn this offense is on FIRE!

ryan
08-06-2011, 08:59 PM
I have no interest in having Winter back next year if we continue on at this pace.

crucify me all you want, he's had enough time to put at least a decent squad together and we lay an absolute egg playing up a man for 80 minutes.

is this serious?

how is scoring 3 goals an absolute egg?

one defender played a wretched game, otherwise it's a 3-1 win. have another, :drinking:

Alonso
08-06-2011, 08:59 PM
Iro f'd up, but the team did well. GAME - IRO = WIN

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 09:00 PM
From the game thread but


Nothing says "entertaining football" like playing a six foot clown at the back

lool

mclaren
08-06-2011, 09:00 PM
Damn you Agent Iro!!!

boysblue
08-06-2011, 09:01 PM
iro = great physical tools

iro = dumb as a fuckin' stump


in the bigger picture.....team showing little progress. sigh.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:01 PM
Talk about fucking with your emotions...

Anyway, I'm not too sour over this game. Minus iro we win 3-1. Besides that there were positives to take away from that game.

Agreed
+ 1

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:01 PM
is this serious?

how is scoring 3 goals an absolute egg?

one defender played a wretched game, otherwise it's a 3-1 win. have another, :drinking:

WTF? how about you minus their fucking terrible goal keeper as wlel since you are going to take away our terrible defender.

1-1 game I guess huh?

RedsOnTop
08-06-2011, 09:01 PM
Did anyone else notice that Plata and Johnson were invisible tonight?

moralis
08-06-2011, 09:02 PM
Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

What do you guys think?

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:02 PM
is this serious?

how is scoring 3 goals an absolute egg?

one defender played a wretched game, otherwise it's a 3-1 win. have another, :drinking:

And if the goalie hadn't made a ricker it'd be 2-1, and if the ref had told Morgan to wait with the free kick for De Guzman's goal then it'd be 1-1. See its better not to even start with the ifs

mclaren
08-06-2011, 09:02 PM
Did anyone else notice that Plata and Johnson were invisible tonight?

I actually thought Plata was quite busy tonight. Johnson on the other hand, forgot he was playing. And I've liked him in previous games.

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

What do you guys think?

I'd take it in a second

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Damn you Agent Iro!!!

Hey that one's mine, go look at the game thread

kuku
08-06-2011, 09:03 PM
We should be happy we got a point. Iro had a bad game but it's not all his fault. On the 3rd goal, the DC player did his best swan dive and the ref had to call it because he messed up on the Deguzman's goal. Iro isn't a fast player. When he's in position, he's a wall. Give him some time.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Did anyone else notice that Plata and Johnson were invisible tonight?


Johnson yes. Plata no.

Plata created.

whyalwaysme11
08-06-2011, 09:04 PM
"SHAME OF A NATION" JUST LIKE when they found out Jeffrey the butler from Fresh Prince cut through the forest in the marathon he ran/won lol

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:04 PM
I'd take it in a second


Me to. But it will never, ever, not in a million years, happen.

whyalwaysme11
08-06-2011, 09:05 PM
plata creates yes but he gets thrown around like a rag doll out there

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:05 PM
On the bright side, I'm happy with Marosevic and Koevermans 5 in 6 games between them :)

TFCmatty
08-06-2011, 09:05 PM
Unlucky for sure...

Couple of notes:

De Rosario played his best game all year. Probably his best game since Montreal tbh. When he's on form like that, any team would struggle.

Iro isn't ready. Maybe one day, but not now.

Frings is a captains' captain. Full leadership and is at home directing play.

Well done Julian.

All in all I thought we actually played a decent game, other than our horrendous central defending. If we had any kind of decent backline, the result would have been different.

Peri is class.

Koevermans is extremely intelligent, but his fitness is still lacking.

Plata has the energy, but I'd love to see more than just the one move from time to time.

Ecks didn't really look like he was into it tonight. Couple of times I noticed a lack of willingness to get back and cover up after making a run forward.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 09:05 PM
TFC played well enough with the man advantage to win this match easily if not for a horrid performance by Iro.

Oldtimer
08-06-2011, 09:06 PM
Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

What do you guys think?

DeRo is not available, he is a DC player.

Nerepis
08-06-2011, 09:06 PM
And if the goalie hadn't made a ricker it'd be 2-1, and if the ref had told Morgan to wait with the free kick for De Guzman's goal then it'd be 1-1. See its better not to even start with the ifs

...and if they hadn't flown and bused hours at midweek to get to Lower Buttcrackistan to play 90 minutes in a hay field...

ryan
08-06-2011, 09:06 PM
WTF? how about you minus their fucking terrible goal keeper as wlel since you are going to take away our terrible defender.

1-1 game I guess huh?

How does their terrible goal keeper mean we laid an egg?

How does 20-12 attempts on goal; 32-9 attempted crosses; 89-73% passing accuracy; 66-33% possesion....mean we laid a fucking egg?

I'm off these boards for the night, I'm just going to get right pissed reading this kind of crap about TFC for what was a decent night marred by a few mistakes...which on RPB forums means "it was complete fuckin shit so lets blow it up again and trade Frings."

mclaren
08-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Hey that one's mine, go look at the game thread

I used it on my Twitter mid-game, and I haven't see the game thread.
Great minds...

(We actually use it at Sunderland for Agent Ashley)

spot-on
08-06-2011, 09:07 PM
So many whingers on this board...

Oldtimer
08-06-2011, 09:07 PM
TFC played well enough with the man advantage to win this match easily if not for a horrid performance by Iro.

That's the reality.
We have a good attack and midfield. I had no doubt that TFC would get some goals. Our defense is worst in the league, though, and we won't see the team start to be a contender until that's fixed.

TFC07
08-06-2011, 09:07 PM
- Defending is awful like usual, but Frei hasn't been shape lately. Some of goals he let in is his fault. Tonight, first goal should have been saved.

- Winter made the right adjustments and it showed in 2nd half offensively. We looked much better in 2nd half. So I give Winter some credit here.

Overall, this team is tired and needs a rest! It shows tonight with some of players out there. Also, we might have to play Frings as a CB for now on. Seems like we don't have anyone capable enough to play CB on this team.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 09:08 PM
TFC played well enough with the man advantage to win this match easily if not for a horrid performance by Iro.

Agree with this. They should have bunkered up after the Koov goal. Speaking of which, Koov is fucking awesome.

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:08 PM
How does their terrible goal keeper mean we laid an egg?

How does 20-12 attempts on goal; 32-9 attempted crosses; 89-73% passing accuracy; 66-33% possesion....mean we laid a fucking egg?

I'm off these boards for the night, I'm just going to get right pissed reading this kind of crap about TFC for what was a decent night marred by a few mistakes...which on RPB forums means "it was complete fuckin shit so lets blow it up again and trade Frings."

what a fucking drama queen, we tied 3-3 against 10 men, under no circumstances can that be called unlucky

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:08 PM
...and if they hadn't flown and bused hours at midweek to get to Lower Buttcrackistan to play 90 minutes in a hay field...


Haha. This to, boys looked tired in the first half.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:08 PM
How does everyone honestly think this team played well except for Iro? It's like, let's forget about all the shitty circumstances DC united had to deal with tonight. Let's forget the fact their backup goal keeper came in and was absolutely horrid. Let's forget everything, and remember only one thing...how shitty Iro was. And then let's turn around and say this team is actually good, except for that shitty defender. Are you kidding? if we played well we would've won in spite of Iro. Does anybody remember the three players that got taken off early in the game beacuse they were having horrid games too? Fuck if Henry stays on the field he very likely ends up doing the Iro.

Keyman
08-06-2011, 09:08 PM
This is what I can't understand. If you watch Iro play for, oh I don't know, 20 mins, you realize that he has absolutely no technical ability. None. It's blatantly unequivocally unambiguously fucking clear. Add to that the fact that he has no pace and isn't a good marker. The 4-3-3 requires defenders to be agile, confident on the ball, and play a technically sound game. Iro is the antithesis of that. What was Mariner thinking?

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 09:09 PM
So many whingers on this board...

I agree man it was a good game, lots of shouldhaves and couldhaves but what game doesn't.

DangerRed
08-06-2011, 09:10 PM
Peri was the bright spot.

We played a man up for 80 minutes and only managed to draw. Had their keeper not been sent off, we would be looking at a VERY different scoreline, so let's not get carried away with the "oh this was 3-1 except for Iro" bullshit.

Winter's substitution of Ecks in particular baffled me. I didn't see why you'd take him out and keep the pylon Iro in.

Koovermans was practically invisible and what he slipped past their back-up can only loosely be called a goal.

In any case, I expected a very bad beating so a draw, I suppose, is a good result. Yay?

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:10 PM
what a fucking drama queen, we tied 3-3 against 10 men, under no circumstances can that be called unlucky


Watch the way you address people on this board. Its his opinion. And your a douchebag for talking to him that way.

moralis
08-06-2011, 09:10 PM
I understand he's a DC United player, is he in an option year or does he have another year or two on his contract. Just looking for info.

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 09:11 PM
How does everyone honestly think this team played well except for Iro? It's like, let's forget about all the shitty circumstances DC united had to deal with tonight. Let's forget the fact their backup goal keeper came in and was absolutely horrid. Let's forget everything, and remember only one thing...how shitty Iro was. And then let's turn around and say this team is actually good, except for that shitty defender. Are you kidding? if we played well we would've won in spite of Iro. Does anybody remember the three players that got taken off early in the game beacuse they were having horrid games too? Fuck if Henry stays on the field he very likely ends up doing the Iro.

From what I remember, and I was only 2 Wiser's in at the first half, Eckersley wasn't having a horrid game.

Canary10
08-06-2011, 09:11 PM
Wow we really find new ways to give up points. This wasn't the first time this year we've left points on the table in bizarre ways.

Iro's getting killed out there every game. We're constantly starting from 1-0 down knowing he's going to give up a penalty. I feel bad for him but he clearly can't do it.

Pookie
08-06-2011, 09:11 PM
Remind why we didn't pay him what he wanted?

Look at us now.

We got rid of horrible shitty players, for just shitty players...

We should have paid Dero.......period

DC (and NY) aren't paying him any more than we did.

Got to tip your hat to him for a great individual effort. Iro? Sleep this one off, it wasn't your night.

Result? Meh. Long term this doesn't matter. Disappointing. Portland to Nicaragua to DC in one week? Who knows.

Mikey
08-06-2011, 09:11 PM
plata creates yes but he gets thrown around like a rag doll out there

But he always goes in for another go regardless, and he occasionally gets through and scores. Can't fault his heart and determination.

Dkolish3
08-06-2011, 09:12 PM
Peri was the bright spot.

We played a man up for 80 minutes and only managed to draw. Had their keeper not been sent off, we would be looking at a VERY different scoreline, so let's not get carried away with the "oh this was 3-1 except for Iro" bullshit.

Winter's substitution of Ecks in particular baffled me. I didn't see why you'd take him out and keep the pylon Iro in.

Koovermans was practically invisible and what he slipped past their back-up can only loosely be called a goal.

In any case, I expected a very bad beating so a draw, I suppose, is a good result. Yay?

Ecks was on last legs he needed to subbed

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:12 PM
what a fucking drama queen, we tied 3-3 against 10 men, under no circumstances can that be called unlucky


Heathen needs a time out for douchebaggery.

Redcoe15
08-06-2011, 09:13 PM
Yes, Iro shit stank tonight. But the title of the thread should have been DeRo 3, TFC 3. He burned our side tonight.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:13 PM
From what I remember, and I was only 2 Wiser's in at the first half, Eckersley wasn't having a horrid game.

Well Winter disagrees with you. In hind sight he probably would have had a better defensive game then Iro did, but you could see it all over Winter's face that he was dissapointed with his runs on the wing. I think he sat him down to make a point. For Eckersley standards, he wasn't having a good game. And was one of the reasons the team had such a hard time pushing up in the first half in spite of them being a man down.

Mikey
08-06-2011, 09:13 PM
So many whingers on this board...

Is that you Andy Iro?

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Watch the way you address people on this board. Its his opinion. And your a douchebag for talking to him that way.

And it's my opinion he's being a drama queen.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Winter's substitution of Ecks in particular baffled me. I didn't see why you'd take him out and keep the pylon Iro in.


Ecks looked like he ran out of gas. Don't know why but he wasn't able to make it up the field.

Mr. Bigby
08-06-2011, 09:14 PM
The way I see it, honour is satisfied on both sides. DeRo gets the attention and success he craves, TFC shows an ability to score 3 goals in a game (no mean feat in the past. Their crap substitute goalkeeper is balanced by our crap defender. Each side takes a point, and the Yin and Yang of the footie universe is in balance. The rest of you, breath deep...

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:15 PM
How does everyone honestly think this team played well except for Iro? It's like, let's forget about all the shitty circumstances DC united had to deal with tonight. Let's forget the fact their backup goal keeper came in and was absolutely horrid. Let's forget everything, and remember only one thing...how shitty Iro was. And then let's turn around and say this team is actually good, except for that shitty defender. Are you kidding? if we played well we would've won in spite of Iro. Does anybody remember the three players that got taken off early in the game beacuse they were having horrid games too? Fuck if Henry stays on the field he very likely ends up doing the Iro.


We scored three goals. We didn't sit back and give up after our ex-captain single handedly took it to us. We pressured and had 65% possession against an undermaned team. We were on the road. And if it wasn't for Iro we'd have won the game.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Wow we really find new ways to give up points. This wasn't the first time this year we've left points on the table in bizarre ways.

Iro's getting killed out there every game. We're constantly starting from 1-0 down knowing he's going to give up a penalty. I feel bad for him but he clearly can't do it.

I kind of feel bad for Iro as well. Atleast he looks like he cares, he looks crushed every time he fucks up. I can't help but to feel bad for the guy specially knowing he's better then that. It's not like Garcia where you just kind of knew there was nothing more to the guys, Iro is a bit different since some of us agreed that he was pretty good with Columbus.

Mak
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
TFC played well enough with the man advantage to win this match easily if not for a horrid performance by Iro.
correct. we scored 3 goals...came back twice, went ahead....only for Iro to gift MeRO 2 goals, and almost a 3rd. Iro is f@ckin crap. He played school boy soccer in England, and never played club football, nor trained through an academy. I think the team has made huge progress, especially the last 4 games. Fantastic possession football, created many chances, always threatened....but Iro sucked crap. We have scored at least 2 goals a game for the past 4 games.....when the hell have we done that in the past...NEVER.

Nerepis
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
The way I see it, honour is satisfied on both sides. DeRo gets the attention and success he craves, TFC shows an ability to score 3 goals in a game (no mean feat in the past. Their crap substitute goalkeeper is balanced by our crap defender. Each side takes a point, and the Yin and Yang of the footie universe is in balance. The rest of you, breath deep...
This^

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
We scored three goals. We didn't sit back and give up after our ex-captain single handedly took it to us. We pressured and had 65% possession against an undermaned team. We were on the road. And if it wasn't for Iro we'd have won the game.

Nope...if it wasn't for their goal keeper we'd have lost the game. See how easy that is?

Mikey
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Ecks looked like he ran out of gas. Don't know why but he wasn't able to make it up the field.

We seem to be asking him to play three positions, defender, wingman for Frings and covering for Iro.

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
The team is not playoff bound. All we can hope for is entertaining soccer, and tonights game porovided that. Who cares if they failed to win? That won't matter until next year. Now, who wants my tickets for the rest of the season?:drinking:

AL-MO
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
Just when you thought you couldn't hate a scouse anymore than you already did....

Fuck off bud.

Signed,

Toronto area Liverpool supporters

ElvistheEvilScotsman
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
It's hard to feel good about this result when we gave up three goals to a team that was a man down for 90 mins. Hats off to Dero showing his worth to the pocket lint we have left from dealing him.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:17 PM
Our games at DC are always epic.

Anyone remember though when Dero scored twice and we were 3-2 up and then Wynne conceded a handball in stoppage time?

Or that time we were at 2-2 and then Wynne conceded a penalty in stoppage time and we lost?

Or that time where we were 3-2 up and Iro was a fucktwit?


:facepalm:

dupont
08-06-2011, 09:17 PM
I thought we looked pretty good today. Nice scoring touch. Iro really gifted those goals.. like straight up silver platter.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:18 PM
Our games at DC are always epic.

Anyone remember though when Dero scored twice and we were 3-2 up and then Wynne conceded a handball in stoppage time?

Or that time we were at 2-2 and then Wynne conceded a penalty in stoppage time and we lost?

Or that time where we were 3-2 up and Iro was a fucktwit?


:facepalm:

That just reminded me of that awesome Dichio goal where he side footed it into the net from outside the 18. Who side foots the ball from outside the 18 and scores? awesome memories.

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:18 PM
pocket lint, that was good.

Benficachop20
08-06-2011, 09:18 PM
lol people were questioning if Henry should start.

Iro is by far the worst defender in the history of the club, and that's saying a lot.

Wat a trade with dero huh? we got Borman and fucking Iro in the end based on trading Dero lol. worst transfer in history.

btw 3 games in a row Iro caused a pk.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 09:19 PM
I thought our attack looked alright in the second half, but when youve got a central defender gifting them just as many goals as we are scoring, it wont matter.

I was pleased to see DeRo show respect for the Toronto fans, and not celebrate his goals wildly, despite having a great night.

We should have won this, but there were still positives to be drawn. There was also a huge negative with a three letter last name.

Our defense is on Winter now. This is a guy he moved to acquire at the deadline to make our defense better, and he plainly hasnt. The back four clearly need to be overhauled, with the exception of Ecks, who incidentally also had a bad night (though not on the level of Iro).

- Scott

LesH
08-06-2011, 09:19 PM
Shit teams are one's that cannot win with over 95 minutes of a man advantage.

+1

And, any team who plays with a man advantage almost the whole game and gets scored on 3 goals has a joke of a defense.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:19 PM
correct. we scored 3 goals...came back twice, went ahead....only for Iro to gift MeRO 2 goals, and almost a 3rd. Iro is f@ckin crap. He played school boy soccer in England, and never played club football, nor trained through an academy. I think the team has made huge progress, especially the last 4 games. Fantastic possession football, created many chances, always threatened....but Iro sucked crap. We have scored at least 2 goals a game for the past 4 games.....when the hell have we done that in the past...NEVER.


Exactly, this team is going somewhere.

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 09:20 PM
Well Winter disagrees with you. In hind sight he probably would have had a better defensive game then Iro did, but you could see it all over Winter's face that he was dissapointed with his runs on the wing. I think he sat him down to make a point. For Eckersley standards, he wasn't having a good game. And was one of the reasons the team had such a hard time pushing up in the first half in spite of them being a man down.

Offensively maybe, I'd still say he did more good than bad with his runs into the box and a couple of decent balls in, but I'm talking defensively, he hussled back and made some good challenges to interrupt the play that was forming. Maybe not his A game but still, not horrid.

From what I saw in the first half, there was a lack of movement off the ball offensively and on at least a few occasions there was significant grouping of TFC players in the centre of the pitch with noone on the wing, save for the times either Eck made a run to the right or Morgan ran on the left, and this accounts for the number of blocked/deflected shots we saw by Plata in particular in the first half.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 09:20 PM
We scored three goals. We didn't sit back and give up after our ex-captain single handedly took it to us. We pressured and had 65% possession against an undermaned team. We were on the road. And if it wasn't for Iro we'd have won the game.
We scored three goals on a bumbling substitute keeper while playing up a man for 90% of the game.

Not only that but they started out-hustling and out-chancing us in the dead of injury time. How is that possible?

I don't care how many sprinkles get put on this thing, it is a big, fat, turd of a result.

LesH
08-06-2011, 09:21 PM
I have no interest in having Winter back next year if we continue on at this pace.

crucify me all you want, he's had enough time to put at least a decent squad together and we lay an absolute egg playing up a man for 80 minutes.

Totally agree.

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:21 PM
lol people were questioning if Henry should start.

Iro is by far the worst defender in the history of the club, and that's saying a lot.

Wat a trade with dero huh? we got Borman and fucking Iro in the end based on trading Dero lol. worst transfer in history.

btw 3 games in a row Iro caused a pk.
Is Iro short for I Rot?

Stryker
08-06-2011, 09:21 PM
The team was exhausted from all the travel and Iro looked even more so.
He's still not a starter, but he's not nearly as bad as he was tonight.
Ecks is usually great for us but even he was shite tonight and I thought Winter did well to sub him.
I have confidence in Winter and Mariner to get the back line together in the off season when JDG's salary is free'd up.
I think we're gonna be great next year.

loconet
08-06-2011, 09:21 PM
ok, let's all chillax. Don't crash the db again, go have a few pints.. come back in the morning :D

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Nope...if it wasn't for their goal keeper we'd have lost the game. See how easy that is?


Game - Iro - Cronin = TFC Win

See how easy that was?

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 09:22 PM
How does everyone honestly think this team played well except for Iro? It's like, let's forget about all the shitty circumstances DC united had to deal with tonight. Let's forget the fact their backup goal keeper came in and was absolutely horrid. Let's forget everything, and remember only one thing...how shitty Iro was. And then let's turn around and say this team is actually good, except for that shitty defender. Are you kidding? if we played well we would've won in spite of Iro. Does anybody remember the three players that got taken off early in the game beacuse they were having horrid games too? Fuck if Henry stays on the field he very likely ends up doing the Iro.

It's simple; from my vantage point, the bottom line is that Iro was directly responsible for at least 2 of their goals. If he didn't let the ball through his legs, and cause yet another PK, TFC wins this match 3-1. I agree a couple of others players were suspect as well, but they didn't blatantly gift the opposition any goals. I don't know why people are tarnishing the performance of the entire team. I maintain that TFC played well enough to have won this match easily if Iro hadn't made those two glaring errors.

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:22 PM
fuck all you haters, I'm getting Iro on my jersey

Keyman
08-06-2011, 09:22 PM
I thought we were pitiful in the first half, some of the worst football going forward I've seen this year.

Second half we were much better. We looked gassed though, it definitely was a factor.

De Guzman played very positive football, always pushing forward and trying to create for his teammates. If he can play like he did today, every day, then I'll be very pleased.

Iro...He just doesn't fit the 4-3-3, plain and simple.

Overall I just don't know how to feel. I'm incredibly angry, it should have been our game, and to lose after being up for around 90 mins is absolutely unacceptable. However, it's difficult to blame the team for tonight's loss. Just a disappointing night.

Redcoe15
08-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Exactly, this team is going somewhere.
And the defense is keeping our side back.

TFC Cityboy
08-06-2011, 09:22 PM
considering the games played and travel this week, that was an impressive display by TFC. Aside from the Eeyore look-a-like at CB that made me pine for the days of Marco Reda we looked solid back to front. Johnno and Plata were quiet, yes, but how often do you see a TFC side boss an away game like that, have probably70% possession and score 3 goals?

Iro needs to train train train and get fit- the lad was dead on his feet out there having played more in a week than he has in the last 6 months. He can't be THAT bad consistently can he? I recall him being a beast for the kkkrew vs us.

Brightside time....a month ago the midfield was shit, we weren't scoring, we had a shitty left back and we were ready to throw the project with Mariner and Winter under the bus....fast forward to tonight and we are (arguably) a centre back or 2 away from being an entertaining and competitive team.
The glass is half full.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:24 PM
You know what pisses me off?

5 years. 5 fucking years and not one bit of stability in central defense. Welsh, Garcia, Harden, Iro, etc. it's all shit.

And the best CBs we've had are gone (Serioux and Nana).

What a joke of a club.

billyfly
08-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Dero trade is looking like more and more Vince Carter-ish.

DOMIN8R
08-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

What do you guys think?

I can see DeRo coming back in a year or two. I think that he would prefer to be in the GTA. But it's a long shot.

T-boy
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
You know what pisses me off?

5 years. 5 fucking years and not one bit of stability in central defense. Welsh, Garcia, Harden, Iro, etc. it's all shit.

And the best CBs we've had are gone (Serioux and Nana).

What a joke of a club.

Welsh was a winger! Oh dear!

Beach_Red
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
fuck all you haters, I'm getting Iro on my jersey

Good idea, I was going to get Titus but you're right.

Globetrotter
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
They played with 10 men for 95 f'in minutes!! Their top keeper was sent off, their coach sent off, their backup keeper sucking balls, we should have won no matter how poorly Iro played. Full squad for them we would likely have lost! We got a goal from a bad keeper screw up, and one on an unfair substitution. This was just another terrible game that the organization will say "let's focus on the positives".

Johnson was invisible because he clearly seemed tired.
Ecks taken off after a dreadful cross into the upper deck.
Plata did have hustle, but any 18 year old should be able to play 7 games in 7 days in 7 countries on 7 continents.
K-man will be a great pickup, still doing his bit as is
Per... right place right time.
Avila, well, he was at the top of the pile when celebrating K-mans goal.
Frei... a few games like that a year and he'll be with us for life! I'm happy with that.
DeGuz... nice. But why were you sitting on the bench feeling sorry for yourself when everyone else was celebrating a goal?

spot-on
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Watch the way you address people on this board


your a douchebag

:facepalm:

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
You know what pisses me off?

5 years. 5 fucking years and not one bit of stability in central defense. Welsh, Garcia, Harden, Iro, etc. it's all shit.

And the best CBs we've had are gone (Serioux and Nana).

What a joke of a club.
you forgot gorgon

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Well Winter disagrees with you. In hind sight he probably would have had a better defensive game then Iro did, but you could see it all over Winter's face that he was dissapointed with his runs on the wing. I think he sat him down to make a point. For Eckersley standards, he wasn't having a good game. And was one of the reasons the team had such a hard time pushing up in the first half in spite of them being a man down.


Do you have a direct line to Winters brain? Maybe he thought Ecks was tired?

Also, Ecks was pushing the play, not sitting back.

Stryker
08-06-2011, 09:27 PM
And and for those saying we would have lost if DC keeper hadnt been sent off... well you have no way of knowing that because they wouldnt have bad every man in the box and our forwards would have had far more room to maneveur.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:28 PM
It's simple, from my vantage point, the bottom line is that Iro was directly responsible for at least 2 of their goals. If he didn't let the ball through his legs, and cause yet another PK, TFC wins this match 3-1. I agree a couple of others players were suspect as well, but they didn't blatantly gift the opposition any goals. I don't know why people are tarnishing the performance of the entire team. I maintain point that TFC would have won this match easily if Iro hadn't made those two glaring errors.

My problem comes from the statement that we would have easily won the game without Iro, and then you don't consider that if DC doesn't get a red card and are forced to play their backup goal keeper (who was horrid) then you could easily say the opposite. Their backup goal keeper was directly responsible for 2 goals. Oh and our goal keeper if you ask me was directly responsible for one as well.

I'm not one to come on here and say, fuck we were gifted a tie by their goal keeper, because I recognize that our defender had much to do with that tie as well. So why can't people just see beyond that. Oh, and you all say it like Iro isn't part of this team or something. Like this can be fixed without issue once we replace him. When the dude is actually our replacement CB, and the best one we have right now. We got way more problems then Iro, this game showed that. Some people don't want to recognize that for some reason.

TFC07
08-06-2011, 09:28 PM
Dero trade is looking like more and more Vince Carter-ish.

I was thinking about that, but at least DeRo didn't stop trying unlike Carter.

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 09:28 PM
de Guzman scored and De Rosario has closure.

It was destiny that De Rosario did what he did today.

Now we can close the De Rosario chapter and look forward. Koevermans is starting to look great, our midfield is flowing, wingbacks working, academy kids are getting there...pieces starting to fall in place.

Patience, men. Patience.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:28 PM
:facepalm:


Someone has to stick up for people around here. I called douchebaggery on a fellow poster who claimed someone else to be "a fucking drama queen" and I stick by it.

T-boy
08-06-2011, 09:28 PM
For all those hating Iro, just remember, Winter picked the guy! Iro isn't Preki, Johnson, or Carver's signing...he's Winter's player. I think you should direct your hate to the guy who picked him in the first place! Winter has no excuses with this squad, its now 100% HIS team.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:29 PM
Do you have a direct line to Winters brain? Maybe he thought Ecks was tired?

Also, Ecks was pushing the play, not sitting back.

I didn't say he was sitting back. He was having a hard time being effective while he was pushing forward. Of course he was tired, that's why he wasn't having so good of a game.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 09:30 PM
The bottom line is that if Iro doesnt let a ball sail through his fucking legs, and shove a guy to the ground in the box, this game could have ended 3-1, and we would all feel a lot different about the performance.

Our defense was no good. Theres no excusing that. However, we still managed three goals of our own, including another for our new striker.

(Apologies for the lack of proper punctuation -something is wrong with my keyboard)

- Scott

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:31 PM
And the defense is keeping our side back.


And this will soon be rectified imo by Mariner, next season, we will be solid.

Our offence is good now, and the defence shall be addressed. Mariner has shown that he understands our weaknesses.

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:31 PM
I Rot actually had a part in one of our goals, and, bad as he was, Dero beat several other notable players tonight, including the almighty one Frings, when he made his 8 or 9 shots on net.

TFC07
08-06-2011, 09:32 PM
For all those hating Iro, just remember, Winter picked the guy! Iro isn't Preki, Johnson, or Carver's signing...he's Winter's player. I think you should direct your hate to the guy who picked him in the first place! Winter has no excuses with this squad, its now 100% HIS team.

You're right, but overall Winter's team looks much better now than beginning of the season. Some signings aren't going to workout in the end, but at least we are trying to improve here.

Good thing is that Iro contract ends after this season. So we are off the hook here.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 09:32 PM
And this will soon be rectified imo by Mariner, next season, we will be solid.

Our offence is good now, and the defence shall be addressed. Mariner has shown that he understands our weaknesses.
Dude, we just picked up Iro to address this weakness. That's seriously troubling!

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:32 PM
The bottom line is that if Iro doesnt let a ball sail through his fucking legs, and shove a guy to the ground in the box, this game could have ended 3-1, and we would all feel a lot different about the performance.

Our defense was no good. Theres no excusing that. However, we still managed three goals of our own, including another for our new striker.

(Apologies for the lack of proper punctuation -something is wrong with my keyboard)

- Scott
I disagree, and I will continue to question this view. The bottom line is if their goal keeper knows how to stop a ball from 65 yards out and knows how to close his legs this game could have easily ended 3-1 the other way. The result was the result, and it wasn't because of one player alone on our team. You have to consider what happened to them if you are going to make a statement like that.

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:32 PM
de Guzman scored and De Rosario has closure.

It was destiny that De Rosario did what he did today.

Now we can close the De Rosario chapter and look forward. Koevermans is starting to look great, our midfield is flowing, wingbacks working, academy kids are getting there...pieces starting to fall in place.

Patience, men. Patience.
Crocket's speech at the alamo

Chevy
08-06-2011, 09:33 PM
10 men dc squad, Frei should have had first goal, and atleast in his career save a fuckin Penalty for fucks sakes, IRO sucks period, I'm done with THIS MLSE BULLSHIT.

I will be arranging a huge street party with leafs, rapters, marlies and tfc fans when MLSE finally sells the shares. It will be a bigger party then if the leafs ever win the stanley cup


fuck u MLSE

..and there we go.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:33 PM
It's simple; from my vantage point, the bottom line is that Iro was directly responsible for at least 2 of their goals. If he didn't let the ball through his legs, and cause yet another PK, TFC wins this match 3-1. I agree a couple of others players were suspect as well, but they didn't blatantly gift the opposition any goals. I don't know why people are tarnishing the performance of the entire team. I maintain that TFC played well enough to have won this match easily if Iro hadn't made those two glaring errors.


Amen to this.

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:34 PM
Someone has to stick up for people around here. I called douchebaggery on a fellow poster who claimed someone else to be "a fucking drama queen" and I stick by it.

Go ahead and report me if it makes you feel better

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 09:34 PM
Dude, we just picked up Iro to address this weakness. That's seriously troubling!

Here's my thinking.

Avila, Marosevic...Griffit.

The Columbus trade, I believe, had more to do with Griffit than Iro.
Iro was probably bundled in by a Columbus side that didn't want him anymore.

The aforementioned trio are the attacking midfield/winger types that Mariner has a liking to for our system.

Iro is a stop-gap measure at best.

billyfly
08-06-2011, 09:35 PM
We all need to get off the deer antler spray.

boban
08-06-2011, 09:35 PM
10 men dc snquad, Frei should have had first goal, and atleast in his career save a fuckin Pealty for fucks sakes, IRO sucks period, I'm done with THIS MLSE BULLSHIT.

I will be arranging a huge street party with leafs, rapters, marlies and tfc fans when MLSE finally sells the shares. It will be a bigger party then if the leafs ever win the stanley cup


fuck u MLSE
MLSE is not selling shares.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:35 PM
Here's my thinking.

Avila, Marosevic...Griffit.

The Columbus trade, I believe, had more to do with Griffit than Iro.
Iro was probably bundled in by a Columbus side that didn't want him anymore.

The aforementioned trio are the attacking midfield/winger types that Mariner has a liking to for our system.

Iro is a stop-gap measure at best.

Huh? did you not see Winter's statement when we picked up Iro. He actually said he's a player he's been after for a bit now. And also said that Iro came at a very expensive price in his own words. Sorry but, Iro was the main man in that trade, no doubt about it.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:35 PM
de Guzman scored and De Rosario has closure.

It was destiny that De Rosario did what he did today.

Now we can close the De Rosario chapter and look forward. Koevermans is starting to look great, our midfield is flowing, wingbacks working, academy kids are getting there...pieces starting to fall in place.

Patience, men. Patience.

Our defense is leaking, LEAKING goals.

I'm getting sick of this. Five years and it's not getting any better.

QSIM
08-06-2011, 09:36 PM
Well, were on the rise. Point away from home, shoulda been three but we are improving. That's the key.

At the beginning of the year we were shite. Utter shite. We couldn't score and our defending was horrid. We lost 3-0 to DC at home.

Now, our attack and midfield is competent. Its actually quite good. However our defense is still in shambles. We tied DC 3-3.

All that's left is to shape up our back line. Patch it up, recover from injuries, add some personelle and well be a pleasure to watch. Who knows, next time we win 3-0?

boban
08-06-2011, 09:36 PM
I actually thought Plata was quite busy tonight.
Oh yeah he was busy.
Busy shooting into the back of black jerseys, busy running into black jerseys and busy handing the ball over to black jerseys.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:36 PM
They played with 10 men for 95 f'in minutes!! Their top keeper was sent off, their coach sent off, their backup keeper sucking balls, we should have won no matter how poorly Iro played. Full squad for them we would likely have lost! We got a goal from a bad keeper screw up, and one on an unfair substitution. This was just another terrible game that the organization will say "let's focus on the positives".

Johnson was invisible because he clearly seemed tired.
Ecks taken off after a dreadful cross into the upper deck.
Plata did have hustle, but any 18 year old should be able to play 7 games in 7 days in 7 countries on 7 continents.
K-man will be a great pickup, still doing his bit as is
Per... right place right time.
Avila, well, he was at the top of the pile when celebrating K-mans goal.
Frei... a few games like that a year and he'll be with us for life! I'm happy with that.
DeGuz... nice. But why were you sitting on the bench feeling sorry for yourself when everyone else was celebrating a goal?


Dude. One player gifting two goals to the opposition is hard to come back from.

But we actually did it.

69Chevy396
08-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Huh? did you not see Winter's statement when we picked up Iro. He actually said he's a player he's been after for a bit now. And also said that Iro came at a very expensive price in his own words. Sorry but, Iro was the main man in that trade, no doubt about it.
Truth is, Winter and I Rot have been lovers for five months:)

T-boy
08-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Here's my thinking.

Avila, Marosevic...Griffit.

The Columbus trade, I believe, had more to do with Griffit than Iro.
Iro was probably bundled in by a Columbus side that didn't want him anymore.

The aforementioned trio are the attacking midfield/winger types that Mariner has a liking to for our system.

Iro is a stop-gap measure at best.

Disagree. Winter said specifically he wanted "a left footed player for the left CB position". I can't imagine this trade was for Griffit, a player who's hardly played any football in the MLS, and not for Iro, who was a player who specifically fit into Winter's description of the type of left sided CB that he wanted.

I question Winter's reasoning behind playing half fit players, especially Iro. I know "we all hate Harden", but I'd rather see a fit Harden out there than Iro, who's currrently as unfit as my grandmother (who is dead).

Soccerpro
08-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Will Frei ever save a penalty at TFC?

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 09:37 PM
I disagree, and I will continue to question this view. The bottom line is if their goal keeper knows how to stop a ball from 65 yards out and knows how to close his legs this game could have easily ended 3-1 the other way. The result was the result, and it wasn't because of one player alone on our team. You have to consider what happened to them if you are going to make a statement like that.

My point is that our lack of three points comes down to individual mistakes by a single individual. DC have to account for their own individual mistakes. Our defense was no good tonight, and Winter owns that.

I also agree that the result is ultimately the result, no ifs or buts. The objective isnt to make excuses, its to assign cause. Iro was the cause of our fate tonight. Perhaps DCs keeper was the cause of theirs.

- Scott

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Dude. One player gifting two goals to the opposition is hard to come back from.

But we actually did it.

DC managed to tie a game when their goalkeeper gifted us two goals as well. Can we not get off this? Is there really no other point anyone can make around here?

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 09:38 PM
Huh? did you not see Winter's statement when we picked up Iro. He actually said he's a player he's been after for a bit now. And also said that Iro came at a very expensive price in his own words. Sorry but, Iro was the main man in that trade, no doubt about it.

I seem to be mistaken then. Apologies :D

In any case, Iro, as a project, has failed. He is not the centerback we need.

We need more technical defenders, less brutish ones, that's for sure. Especially if we're playing a pass-from-the-back system.

It seemed to me that Iro could not and would not pass to anyone farther than a few meters away. He was afraid of having possession and showed low self-worth. He is not the answer at CB. Perhaps Dasan Robinson should have a shot.

Canary10
08-06-2011, 09:39 PM
A point on the road in MLS is a good result. Bizarre the way it went down, but any of us would have taken a draw before the game. Two wins and two draws in the past 4 games is pretty solid form.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:39 PM
The bottom line is that if Iro doesnt let a ball sail through his fucking legs, and shove a guy to the ground in the box, this game could have ended 3-1, and we would all feel a lot different about the performance.

Our defense was no good. Theres no excusing that. However, we still managed three goals of our own, including another for our new striker.

(Apologies for the lack of proper punctuation -something is wrong with my keyboard)

- Scott


This is exactly it.

Our team is starting to fight! And I will not let that go unnoticed.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:39 PM
Sounders game was awesome.

2 stoppage time goals (up a man after Bravo sent off) to beat KC 2-1 and end their unbeaten run and give them their first home loss.

13 goals in the last 15 minutes of games. They score late goals. We concede them.

T-boy
08-06-2011, 09:40 PM
We need to judge Iro when he is fit and has had a proper preseason. I don't think we are seeing a match fit, match sharp player right now. But as I said, I really question why Winter is playing the guy when he's obviously so unfit!

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:41 PM
Will Frei ever save a penalty at TFC?

People should get off Frei's back. Penalty kicks are largely a guessing game. What's concerning is how we concede penalties way more often thatn we score them.

Sutton saved one penalty in his time with us and somehow he got away with coming 4.5 yards off his line.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:41 PM
I seem to be mistaken then. Apologies :D

In any case, Iro, as a project, has failed. He is not the centerback we need.

We need more technical defenders, less brutish ones, that's for sure. Especially if we're playing a pass-from-the-back system.

It seemed to me that Iro could not and would not pass to anyone farther than a few meters away. He was afraid of having possession and showed low self-worth. He is not the answer at CB. Perhaps Dasan Robinson should have a shot.


Exactly. We need more nimble Cb's that have some height to challenge in the air, not easy to come by.

billyfly
08-06-2011, 09:42 PM
We need to judge Iro when he is fit and has had a proper preseason. I don't think we are seeing a match fit, match sharp player right now. But as I said, I really question why Winter is playing the guy when he's obviously so unfit!

He is a free agent after the season.

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 09:42 PM
Exactly. We need more nimble Cb's that have some height to challenge in the air, not easy to come by.

It's funny because...Tim Ream would be perfect.
And to be fair...so would Dejan Jakovic.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:43 PM
We need to judge Iro when he is fit and has had a proper preseason. I don't think we are seeing a match fit, match sharp player right now. But as I said, I really question why Winter is playing the guy when he's obviously so unfit!

Nah. His contract is up soon. He can go immediately.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:43 PM
Go ahead and report me if it makes you feel better


Haha, not necessary, I can fight it out here instead.

sashavukelich
08-06-2011, 09:44 PM
3 games in 8 days....7000+ Miles travelled, points picked up in each game. so i'm pleased.

Iro had a career-worst game tonight....Where is Dasan Robinson or Viator....seriously. I'm sure winter would have subbed him off if he could have.

Marosevic looked busy/industrious tonight, and capped it off with a goal.
JDG with confidence, is a different player.
Frings is still the boss.
Avila looks to be a good pick up!

De-RO was respectful in not over celebrating, which i appreciated. All over, a CRAZY match.

Iro to be sat next game, i'm sure he was first in/out of the showers today, to go hide under a rock.

T-boy
08-06-2011, 09:44 PM
He is a free agent after the season.

That doesn't mean that we won't be offering him a contract!

So essentially what you are saying is that Winter and Company gave up Dero in a trade for Tchani, who was traded for Iro, who will be released at the end of the season?! So we got nothing in a trade for DeRo, essentially?!

You can't tell me that the TFC management don't want Iro to be a full time player for TFC after this season...there is no way they would have given up all that they have, and NOT want him as our full time CB!

Mikey
08-06-2011, 09:45 PM
fuck all you haters, I'm getting Iro on my jersey

LOL! That will make two!

yours....and his.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 09:45 PM
It also should be said that scoring thee goals against a 10-man side is more than acceptable production. Our defense was the major let down tonight. Iro was the main culprit, and Winter is responsible for Iro. Hes also responsible for fixing it, and the punishment that comes if he fails to do so.

- Scott

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:45 PM
Well, were on the rise. Point away from home, shoulda been three but we are improving. That's the key.

At the beginning of the year we were shite. Utter shite. We couldn't score and our defending was horrid. We lost 3-0 to DC at home.

Now, our attack and midfield is competent. Its actually quite good. However our defense is still in shambles. We tied DC 3-3 .

All that's left is to shape up our back line. Patch it up, recover from injuries, add some personelle and well be a pleasure to watch. Who knows, next time we win 3-0?


BUMP.

Lets look at the bright side of life!

billyfly
08-06-2011, 09:46 PM
That doesn't mean that we won't be offering him a contract!

So essentially what you are saying is that Winter and Company gave up Dero in a trade for Tchani, who was traded for Iro, who will be released at the end of the season?! So we got nothing in a trade for DeRo, essentially?!

You can't tell me that the TFC management don't want Iro to be a full time player for TFC after this season...there is no way they would have given up all that they have, and NOT want him as our full time CB!

Yes like I said in this thread earlier - Vince Carter trade.

Soccerpro
08-06-2011, 09:46 PM
People should get off Frei's back. Penalty kicks are largely a guessing game. What's concerning is how we concede penalties way more often thatn we score them.

Sutton saved one penalty in his time with us and somehow he got away with coming 4.5 yards off his line.

You're right penalty kicks are largely a guessing game. I've just never seen a goalie guess wrong every single time over the course of roughly 80 games. I'm not mad at him. I just find it utterly baffling.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 09:46 PM
Yep! We're no longer shite, we're simply bad and inching towards mediocrity.

Our offense has been on fire, but the defense is currently playing "Almost Football".

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:47 PM
This is exactly it.

Our team is starting to fight! And I will not let that go unnoticed.

Look, before this game, I pretty much had said that we had shown some improvement, but I was very cautious because of the quality of opponents we had played in that span of 3 games. Tonight I thought to myself, I'll be able to tell if we really have improved or not.

Regardless of where you think the blame lies tonight, everything considered, I think this result was extremely dissapointing. When we went up a man in the 6th minute or whatever it was I thought, wow, we have a chance to actually win our first game on the road. It's not like DC knows how to play well at home or anything. So I trully though we had a shot. In the end it was trully dissapointing to make the rookie mistakes we made when this is supposed to be the much improved roster.

The problem isn't just Iro. Iro was left on the pitch because 4 or 5 other defenders aren't cutting it either. This defense needs a serious revamp from top to bottom except Eckersley. (And yes I would keep Henry but as a longer term project). And that's dissapointing, that we are still in this state at this stage in the game.

Just like with Preki the improvement in goals allowed ment nothing to me since we couldnt put the ball in the net, the same goes for Winter. I don't care too much right now that we can score 3 goals in a game when we can't defend. I don't think we can say this team has improved until we can play a much more balanced game the we did today.

DOMIN8R
08-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Observations:

DeRo deserves our respect - he showed us respect tonight (I bet he would be happy to come back to T.O.)
Iro needs more time or I have to stop my man crush for Mariner
4 games without a loss = progress
Frei is not a well rounded keeper until he stops a PK
As a team, we looked tired
We don't look like we studied our opponent tonight - our tactics we mediocre

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Will Frei ever save a penalty at TFC?


I certainly hope so, he sucks at penalty's.

This part of his game needs massive improvement.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:48 PM
It's funny because...Tim Ream would be perfect.
And to be fair...so would Dejan Jakovic.

I would give up just about anyone on this team for Tim ream. But no way NY parts with him.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 09:49 PM
Look, before this game, I pretty much had said that we had shown some improvement, but I was very cautious because of the quality of opponents we had played in that span of 3 games. Tonight I thought to myself, I'll be able to tell if we really have improved or not.

Regardless of where you think the blame lies tonight, everything considered, I think this result was extremely dissapointing. When we went up a man in the 6th minute or whatever it was I thought, wow, we have a chance to actually win our first game on the road. It's not like DC knows how to play well at home or anything. So I trully though we had a shot. In the end it was trully dissapointing to make the rookie mistakes we made when this is supposed to be the much improved roster.

The problem isn't just Iro. Iro was left on the pitch because 4 or 5 other defenders aren't cutting it either. This defense needs a serious revamp from top to bottom except Eckersley. (And yes I would keep Henry but as a longer term project). And that's dissapointing, that we are still in this state at this stage in the game.

Just like with Preki the improvement in goals allowed ment nothing to me since we couldnt put the ball in the net, the same goes for Winter. I don't care too much right now that we can score 3 goals in a game when we can't defend. I don't think we can say this team has improved until we can play a much more balanced game the we did today.

No doubt the result is disappointing, in the context of how the game went, sure. There were still positives to be drawn, however.

I dont like how it seems like we always have to be all or nothing, emotionally.

- Scott

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:49 PM
We need to judge Iro when he is fit and has had a proper preseason. I don't think we are seeing a match fit, match sharp player right now. But as I said, I really question why Winter is playing the guy when he's obviously so unfit!


I think he fits into a defensive type system no problem, but not into our offensive styled system.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 09:50 PM
I disagree, and I will continue to question this view. The bottom line is if their goal keeper knows how to stop a ball from 65 yards out and knows how to close his legs this game could have easily ended 3-1 the other way. The result was the result, and it wasn't because of one player alone on our team. You have to consider what happened to them if you are going to make a statement like that.

I concede that DC was playing down a man with their back up keeper. That being said, their keeper wasn't directly responsible for any of their goals. Marosevic's goal was the result of a ball their keeper initally punched out of the box that deflected off a defender. JDG's goal was (astonishingly) one of the greatest long range strikes in TFC history, and I don't think their keeper had a chance. Koeverman's goal was off a goal mouth scramble in close from a corner, and that would have been a difficult save for any keeper. Moreover, none of our goals were handed to us by careless turnovers.

I don't think you can compare the quality of the goals TFC scored to the goals DCU scored. DeRo was a man on a mission tonight, but the reality is that two of his goals were handed to him on a silver platter because of one defender. If you remove Iro's mistakes from the equation, TFC wins the match 3-1 on the road against a team that was shorthanded, and that would have put an entirely different complexion on the overall performance of the club.

T-boy
08-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Does anybody else see a possible future for Frings at CB for TFC? He's a calm head at the back, which is what we need. DeRo made him look SLOW tho!

harrietgate
08-06-2011, 09:52 PM
Speaking of drama queens, the only drama queen I saw tonight was the DC coach after De Guzmen scored.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 09:54 PM
I concede that DC was playing down a man with their back up keeper. That being said, their keeper wasn't directly responsible for any of their goals. Marosevic's goal was the result of a ball their keeper initally punched out of the box that deflected off a defender.

That's totally ridiculous, the keeper has to play better than that.

I can't believe the efforts people are going to in order to make something of this.

Pookie
08-06-2011, 09:54 PM
If folks are factoring in DC's circumstances, such as 10 men and a back up keeper let's chalk up match fitness, Portland to Nicaragua back to Toronto to DC and newness as a team in ours.

Reasons aren't excuses.

Anyways, without the card we were likely looking at a road loss. Ended with a draw which really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things unless you were expecting is to jump back into the playoffs after tonight.

Disappointing. Not much more to say.

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 09:55 PM
I don't think you can compare the quality of the goals TFC scored to the goals DCU scored. DeRo was a man on a mission tonight, but the reality is that two of his goals were handed to him on a silver platter because of one defender. If you remove Iro's mistakes from the equation, TFC wins the match 3-1 on the road against a team that was shorthanded, and that would have put an entirely different complexion on the overall performance of the club.

^ This

The penalty kick was kind of a dive but was boneheaded of Iro to be that physical on his man. The through the legs miss was a gift straight up.

TFC would have won without those mistakes. The goals we scored were nice.

Heathen
08-06-2011, 09:56 PM
Does anybody else see a possible future for Frings at CB for TFC? He's a calm head at the back, which is what we need. DeRo made him look SLOW tho!

That would be a huge waste and I think he'd get found out very quickly. It's fine if we're playing 3-4-3 going all out for a goal in the last 10 minutes but it would be a disaster as a long-term strategy

Alonso
08-06-2011, 09:56 PM
Dude, we just picked up Iro to address this weakness. That's seriously troubling!


True. But on the bright side, we tried him out and don't like him so we can send him packing in the off season for a better suited CB for this team.

Unlike MoJo who would sign players for years on extended contracts before ascertaining that they fit into the system, Mariner is more pragmatic.

boban
08-06-2011, 09:56 PM
That's totally ridiculous, the keeper has to play better than that.

I can't believe the efforts people are going to in order to make something of this.
Exactly.
Much like our keeper should have played better. If he wasnt slow on the first goal and made a better effort we would have won 3-2. Yes Iro made some mistakes. but so did others.

Canary10
08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
I certainly hope so, he sucks at penalty's.

This part of his game needs massive improvement.

Penalties scored are not the fault of the keeper. A perfect penalty is impossible to save - the shooter should never miss. So let's get off Frei for this. It's complete BS.

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
I would give up just about anyone on this team for Tim ream. But no way NY parts with him.

Stefan Frei + 1st Round Draft Pick oughta do it.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
It also should be said that scoring thee goals against a 10-man side is more than acceptable production. Our defense was the major let down tonight. Iro was the main culprit, and Winter is responsible for Iro. Hes also responsible for fixing it, and the punishment that comes if he fails to do so.

- Scott

Agreed. Winter and Mariner are responsible for Iro. He will likely get the opportunity to redeem himself because of the cost of acquiring him, but it certainly doesn't look promising for him at the moment. I think it might be time to give Viator and Robinson a look at CB. TFC can't afford to give up a PK every match.

Sweeper
08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
Missed the game but watched the replay so not emotionally attached to this game. Can't blame Iro for the penalty kick, DeRo was going to finish the rebound and he took a bit of a dive. Not saying he played a great game but personally think he is better than Harden. Maybe de Guzman will be a good trade for a center back in the off season? Nice to see the Academy playing a role.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
If folks are factoring in DC's circumstances, such as 10 men and a back up keeper let's chalk up match fitness, Portland to Nicaragua back to Toronto to DC and newness as a team in ours.

Reasons aren't excuses.

Anyways, without the card we were likely looking at a road loss. Ended with a draw which really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things unless you were expecting is to jump back into the playoffs after tonight.

Disappointing. Not much more to say.

You have it backwards. It's me factoring in DC's circumstances, and it's not to MAKE my point about why we loss. It's to challenge the point that we would've won if it wasn't because of OUR circumstances.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 09:58 PM
Our defenders haven't been strong, how do you take all your ball-winners out of midfield and leave the backline so naked? There was absolutely nobody shielding the backline from runs.

I think Ben Olsen coached a better game waving his arms around frantically most of the game than Winter did. At least he can actually get his players to give a fuck.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 10:00 PM
That's totally ridiculous, the keeper has to play better than that.

I can't believe the efforts people are going to in order to make something of this.

The keeper punched it out, what else was he supposed to do? It bounced off his own defender right to Marosevic. Why is it ridiculous?

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:00 PM
Look, before this game, I pretty much had said that we had shown some improvement, but I was very cautious because of the quality of opponents we had played in that span of 3 games. Tonight I thought to myself, I'll be able to tell if we really have improved or not.

Regardless of where you think the blame lies tonight, everything considered, I think this result was extremely dissapointing. When we went up a man in the 6th minute or whatever it was I thought, wow, we have a chance to actually win our first game on the road. It's not like DC knows how to play well at home or anything. So I trully though we had a shot. In the end it was trully dissapointing to make the rookie mistakes we made when this is supposed to be the much improved roster.

The problem isn't just Iro. Iro was left on the pitch because 4 or 5 other defenders aren't cutting it either. This defense needs a serious revamp from top to bottom except Eckersley. (And yes I would keep Henry but as a longer term project). And that's dissapointing, that we are still in this state at this stage in the game.

Just like with Preki the improvement in goals allowed ment nothing to me since we couldnt put the ball in the net, the same goes for Winter. I don't care too much right now that we can score 3 goals in a game when we can't defend. I don't think we can say this team has improved until we can play a much more balanced game the we did today.


I see and understand this point. But honestly, I think we are two or three decent defenders from being top 8 in the league. From there it is a matter of the team gelling, playing for eachother, and believing in themselves.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:00 PM
I concede that DC was playing down a man with their back up keeper. That being said, their keeper wasn't directly responsible for any of their goals. Marosevic's goal was the result of a ball their keeper initally punched out of the box that deflected off a defender. JDG's goal was (astonishingly) one of the greatest long range strikes in TFC history, and I don't think their keeper had a chance. Koeverman's goal was off a goal mouth scramble in close from a corner, and that would have been a difficult save for any keeper. Moreover, none of our goals were handed to us by careless turnovers.

I don't think you can compare the quality of the goals TFC scored to the goals DCU scored. DeRo was a man on a mission tonight, but the reality is that two of his goals were handed to him on a silver platter because of one defender. If you remove Iro's mistakes from the equation, TFC wins the match 3-1 on the road against a team that was shorthanded, and that would have put an entirely different complexion on the overall performance of the club.

And if that was the result, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But it wasn't.

My problem is this post suggests that if we get rid of Iro we'll start winning games 3-1. The reality is, this team can't defend. And it can't defend as team. Iro plus the rest of our defenders aren't very good. But I also fear that tactics has something to do with it as well. There's a reason why every CB that's been tried in that position this year hasn't looked very good. I'm certainly not ready to say this team is a playoff contender if we replace Iro. This game showed that we have much further to go.

Oh, and I disagree on the goals we scored. I don't know how Koev's and Maro's goals can't be considered gifts. I don't think either player will score an easier goal this year. And I also don't think JDG's goal goes in with a 17 year old rep keeper.

TFC Cityboy
08-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Iro looked like a drunk staggering home on that penalty give-away.
Dreadful performance from him, otherwise lots of positives this past 2 weeks.

What odds would you have got of a MeRo hat-trick AND JDG scoring??

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Penalties scored are not the fault of the keeper. A perfect penalty is impossible to save - the shooter should never miss. So let's get off Frei for this. It's complete BS.


I agree.

But he's never been close. And for a player who is close to the top of his game he needs a part of his game to improve, and this is the weakest to address.

To me he is one of our best players. If he is looking for a part of his game to improve, this is it.

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Iro's face said it all at the end of the game. He's disappointed with himself, developing some confidence issues for sure.

This is where great defenders are made. Face of adversity. You've hit a low, now work harder and find your high.

3 penalties conceded in 3 games for the man. Must suck having to sleep thinking about that level of mistake.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 10:03 PM
The keeper punched it out, what else was he supposed to do? It bounced off his own defender right to Marosevic. Why is it ridiculous?
He's supposed to catch the ball or punch it clear. not jump in at waist height and punch it into his own man standing 4 feet away from him. That's incredibly poor situation awareness.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:04 PM
Iro's face said it all at the end of the game. He's disappointed with himself, developing some confidence issues for sure.

This is where great defenders are made. Face of adversity. You've hit a low, now work harder and find your high.

3 penalties conceded in 3 games for the man. Must suck having to sleep thinking about that level of mistake.

JimmyB - I think you need a new Avatar. Please change your Avatar. Save Iro! :)

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 10:04 PM
And if that was the result, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But it wasn't.

My problem is this post suggests that if we get rid of Iro we'll start winning games 3-1. The reality is, this team can't defend. And it can't defend as team. Iro plus the rest of our defenders aren't very good. But I also fear that tactics has something to do with it as well. There's a reason why every CB that's been tried in that position this year hasn't looked very good. I'm certainly not ready to say this team is a playoff contender if we replace Iro. This game showed that we have much further to go.

Oh, and I disagree on the goals we scored. I don't know how Koev's and Maro's goals can't be considered gifts. I don't think either player will score an easier goal this year. And I also don't think JDG's goal goes in with a 17 year old rep keeper.

I was only referring to tonight's match. As for the nature of the goals scored by both clubs, we'll agree to disagree.

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 10:05 PM
JimmyB - I think you need a new Avatar. Please change your Avatar. Save Iro! :)

Believe me, I google image'd him already.

I'd rather see Harden go. Iro with a technical defender beside him (LIKE CHAD MARSHALL) works. We saw it with Columbus for years.

Harden just blows balls.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:06 PM
He's supposed to catch the ball or punch it clear. not jump in at waist height and punch it into his own man standing 4 feet away from him. That's incredibly poor situation awareness.

Pretty much how I saw it. Incredibly ackward punch. Goal Keepers are absolutely held responsible for dealing with rebounds as best as they can.

Pookie
08-06-2011, 10:06 PM
If we get rid of Iro, maybe it makes a difference TONIGHT.

Truth is that not one of us can predict the future and a guy that has been on the bench for most of the season and spent a total of 22 hours in a plane, 4 hours on a bus and through quite a few time zones in a week might, just might, have an off night.

I won't give up on a guy under circumstances like that.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 10:06 PM
Iro's face said it all at the end of the game. He's disappointed with himself, developing some confidence issues for sure.

This is where great defenders are made. Face of adversity. You've hit a low, now work harder and find your high.

3 penalties conceded in 3 games for the man. Must suck having to sleep thinking about that level of mistake.

With this lot, I have no more patience for stupid terrible inept play.

Iro is another of a long list of sub-standard jokers Toronto FC employs in the backline. He needs to go.

I like your (sometimes delusional) positivity but I'd rather play one of the RPBers at CB than Iro.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:08 PM
You're right penalty kicks are largely a guessing game. I've just never seen a goalie guess wrong every single time over the course of roughly 80 games. I'm not mad at him. I just find it utterly baffling.


Exactly, in my mind he commits too early.

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 10:09 PM
With this lot, I have no more patience for stupid terrible inept play.

Iro is another of a long list of sub-standard jokers Toronto FC employs in the backline. He needs to go.

I like your (sometimes delusional) positivity but I'd rather play one of the RPBers at CB than Iro.

It's 90% trolling :D

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:09 PM
Observations:

DeRo deserves our respect - he showed us respect tonight (I bet he would be happy to come back to T.O.)
Iro needs more time or I have to stop my man crush for Mariner
4 games without a loss = progress
Frei is not a well rounded keeper until he stops a PK
As a team, we looked tired
We don't look like we studied our opponent tonight - our tactics we mediocre


This is all succinct and to the point in my opinion.

Nice!

DOMIN8R
08-06-2011, 10:10 PM
We have had some bad defensive luck. Cann, Williams, Borman, Gargan, Iro, et al....

ArmenJBX
08-06-2011, 10:11 PM
I just want to remind people.

Frings is fucking awesome.

Belfast_Boy
08-06-2011, 10:11 PM
If we get rid of Iro, maybe it makes a difference TONIGHT.

Truth is that not one of us can predict the future and a guy that has been on the bench for most of the season and spent a total of 22 hours in a plane, 4 hours on a bus and through quite a few time zones in a week might, just might, have an off night.

I won't give up on a guy under circumstances like that.

I hope you are right. personally I can't see much better coming from him. Iro is a hazzard. he looks very uncomfortable out there.

Props to Dero, miss that guy.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:11 PM
Exactly, in my mind he commits too early.

I don't actually ever remember Frei guessing right. And yes, that's a skill. So I agree with you, it's something he could work on. Not the end of the world, but if there's something he needs to better it's him reading the players better. It's mind games, and he seems to be losing that battle right now.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:13 PM
And the best CBs we've had are gone (Serioux and Nana).

What a joke of a club.

Yeah. Nana would never have gifted DeRo those goals.

TFC USA
08-06-2011, 10:13 PM
We have had some bad defensive luck. Cann, Williams, Borman, Gargan, Iro, et al....

At what point is it not luck but just bad management?

The last three mentioned should never wear an MLS shirt again.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:14 PM
DC managed to tie a game when their goalkeeper gifted us two goals as well. Can we not get off this? Is there really no other point anyone can make around here?


Dude. All things being equal, we played well then no? On the road? With Dero having us in his marks?

Beach_Red
08-06-2011, 10:14 PM
If we get rid of Iro, maybe it makes a difference TONIGHT.

Truth is that not one of us can predict the future and a guy that has been on the bench for most of the season and spent a total of 22 hours in a plane, 4 hours on a bus and through quite a few time zones in a week might, just might, have an off night.

I won't give up on a guy under circumstances like that.

Yes, this is true, and how tonight's game is handled is very important. In a salary-cap league every team is going to have some weak links. This is the kind of situation where we see if Winter is a good MLS coach, if he can get better play out of guys who made mistakes or had off-games. I think he will.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:15 PM
It's funny because...Tim Ream would be perfect.
And to be fair...so would Dejan Jakovic.



Ok. Sign them up!

LOL... I know, we need some time.

jloome
08-06-2011, 10:17 PM
Yeah. Nana would never have gifted DeRo those goals.

LOL, well, not THREE anyway.:D

Globetrotter
08-06-2011, 10:17 PM
Go watch the replay of Peri's goal. While everyone is celebrating, DeGuz is sitting cross legged on the bench with his hand on his chin. Not even a smile. Says it all.

Serb_Star
08-06-2011, 10:17 PM
We've had a million different defenders this season and still our defence has been shit in every game, a lot of the blame has to go to Winter.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 10:20 PM
We've had a million different defenders this season and still our defence has been shit in every game, a lot of the blame has to go to Winter.
I agree here, there has to be more strength in the system. If your defenders are crap, start dropping your mids back to shield the backline more.

Can't continue to beat ourselves by giving weak players the opportunity to fail.

DangerRed
08-06-2011, 10:20 PM
Dude. One player gifting two goals to the opposition is hard to come back from.

But we actually did it.

I was looking for a post that sums up what I'm trying to say, and this one is definitely it.

For as long as the level of expectations here remains so low as to say that coming back from a shitty defender gifting two goals is an achievement, we'll never demand more from this team.

Approach this from another angle: if someone told you that three DP-having team, with a brand new defense, allowed THREE GOALS AGAINST A 10-MAN (for 95 min) SIDE, but held on to a draw, is that a commendable performance?

Much of our offence was invisible and the fact that we allowed three opportunities for DC to exploit our defensive weakness is what you should be worried about. This result is a much bigger disappointment than just Iro.

Shouldn't international superstar Torsten Frings be bossing the midfield of an MLS team with a guy down? Shouldn't Ryan Johnston and Danny Koevermans be running circles around a terrified bunker defence protecting a terrified backup keeper? Shouldn't our overhauled backline be shutting down every ball coming in from a team that's attacking more for the sake of keeping the ball out of their half rather than actually trying to score?

But again, you're right and I'm wrong. It just needs more time. Teams are rebuilt in at least a year. Winter is making progress.

Right?

TFCRegina
08-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Why is Iro being blamed for the first goal? Watch the game tape again folks.

Torsten Frings didn't do his job with respect to Dwayne De Rosario. Onus is on him.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:23 PM
Why is Iro being blamed for the first goal? Watch the game tape again folks.

Torsten Frings didn't do his job with respect to Dwayne De Rosario. Onus is on him.

Can't blame just Torsten. The entire team fell asleep.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:23 PM
That doesn't mean that we won't be offering him a contract!

So essentially what you are saying is that Winter and Company gave up Dero in a trade for Tchani, who was traded for Iro, who will be released at the end of the season?! So we got nothing in a trade for DeRo, essentially?!

You can't tell me that the TFC management don't want Iro to be a full time player for TFC after this season...there is no way they would have given up all that they have, and NOT want him as our full time CB!

Well, while this is true, they also cleared a lot of cap space by letting him go that will allow for better player acquisition next year.

The benefit is just simpy letting him go. That clears $330,000 to sign three very competent CB's.

Don't get me wrong though, I would entertain signing Dero for this club again. He has simply proven himself to be a game changer over, and over again.

I wish he could be more though. Maybe the timing wasn't right. What if he joined us next year for the first time?

That would be gold.

DangerRed
08-06-2011, 10:25 PM
Can't blame just Torsten. The entire team fell asleep.

Go watch the replay at the end where DeRo almost gets his fourth as Torsten gets completely bossed by DeRo and tries falling over to get a foul. Who shows up to bail him out? Let's just say it's Iro-nic.

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 10:26 PM
Can't blame just Torsten. The entire team fell asleep.
Nah man, if that was JDG doing his typical thing and running lazily across like that he would have been absolutely savaged beyond belief on these boards. He has to be the midfielder we paid for and get stuck in there.

Anyway, it's one bad play. He's generally been good thus far but Dero got the best of him tonight.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:27 PM
Why is Iro being blamed for the first goal? Watch the game tape again folks.

Torsten Frings didn't do his job with respect to Dwayne De Rosario. Onus is on him.

I don't blame Frings, I blame the guys sitting on the bench who can't play their natural position. Which is why I keep saying, This team has more then one problem at CB. It actually has many.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 10:28 PM
I was looking for a post that sums up what I'm trying to say, and this one is definitely it.

For as long as the level of expectations here remains so low as to say that coming back from a shitty defender gifting two goals is an achievement, we'll never demand more from this team.

Approach this from another angle: if someone told you that three DP-having team, with a brand new defense, allowed THREE GOALS AGAINST A 10-MAN (for 95 min) SIDE, but held on to a draw, is that a commendable performance?

Much of our offence was invisible and the fact that we allowed three opportunities for DC to exploit our defensive weakness is what you should be worried about. This result is a much bigger disappointment than just Iro.

Shouldn't international superstar Torsten Frings be bossing the midfield of an MLS team with a guy down? Shouldn't Ryan Johnston and Danny Koevermans be running circles around a terrified bunker defence protecting a terrified backup keeper? Shouldn't our overhauled backline be shutting down every ball coming in from a team that's attacking more for the sake of keeping the ball out of their half rather than actually trying to score?

But again, you're right and I'm wrong. It just needs more time. Teams are rebuilt in at least a year. Winter is making progress.

Right?

I understand your point, but sometimes, the scoreline doesn't tell the whole story. Tonight is one of those nights in my opinion. Any way you slice it, this particular result is on Iro far more than it's on the club, and he knows it. I hope he can regain his confidence.

TFCRegina
08-06-2011, 10:28 PM
Nah man, if that was JDG doing his typical thing and running lazily across like that he would have been absolutely savaged beyond belief on these boards. He has to be the midfielder we paid for and get stuck in there.

Anyway, it's one bad play. He's generally been good thus far but Dero got the best of him tonight.

Yep, although that's usually because it's a theme with JDG.

I'm not savaging Frings yet, because he rarely screws up. But he has to take responsibility for that particular fuck up.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:28 PM
That's totally ridiculous, the keeper has to play better than that.

I can't believe the efforts people are going to in order to make something of this.


Haha. Agreed.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:29 PM
i thought he was referring to the 1st goal. I would agree it wasn't Frings' best night.

TFCRegina
08-06-2011, 10:30 PM
Can't blame just Torsten. The entire team fell asleep.

My comment was specifically in relation to that goal. The team fell asleep for a big chunk of the match. No disagreement. But that particular play, the onus is on Frings.

RedRum
08-06-2011, 10:32 PM
Still dont understand how Charlie Davies can run to the bunker after a goal and everyone loses their mind, yet our guy does the same thing tonight and nobody cares...

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:33 PM
Still dont understand how Charlie Davies can run to the bunker after a goal and everyone loses their mind, yet our guy does the same thing tonight and nobody cares...

What happened....I guess I missed something?

ag futbol
08-06-2011, 10:34 PM
Anyway, one positive seems to be despite how out of shape he looks Koevermans just finds ways to put the ball in the net. Unfortunately, I think the parts around him need a lot of work.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:37 PM
My comment was specifically in relation to that goal. The team fell asleep for a big chunk of the match. No disagreement. But that particular play, the onus is on Frings.

I have to disagree after watching the replay. If we're talking about space before the freekick, Frings was the one covering space ahead of the 18. Why was Dunfield positioned the way he was? When the played it short, why didn't the defenders close down the space earlier? Why didn't Frei pull off what looked like a routine save? There's way too many variables.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Dude. All things being equal, we played well then no? On the road? With Dero having us in his marks?

All things being equal. I didn't see an improvement from us. Our offense is clicking, our defense is in shambles. Sometimes to fix the defense you have to sacrifice a bit of the offense. So I'm not convinced that we can just plug the whole in the defense and magically we'll continue to score three goals while allowing 1 every game.

My gutt tells me this new roster isn't much improved over the last one (yet). Next week will be telling. In my opinion, if we play the way we did today, we lose next week's game.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 10:42 PM
All things being equal. I didn't see an improvement from us. Our offense is clicking, our defense is in shambles. Sometimes to fix the defense you have to sacrifice a bit of the offense. So I'm not convinced that we can just plug the whole in the defense and magically we'll continue to score three goals while allowing 1 every game.

My gutt tells me this new roster isn't much improved over the last one (yet). Next week will be telling. In my opinion, if we play the way we did today, we lose next week's game.

Granted, our central defense has not improved, but anyone that has watched the last few games can surely acknowledge that our midfield and our forwards are much stronger. I would guess that TFC has scored more goals in the last 3 league games than in the previous 10 games combined.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:45 PM
If we get rid of Iro, maybe it makes a difference TONIGHT.

Truth is that not one of us can predict the future and a guy that has been on the bench for most of the season and spent a total of 22 hours in a plane, 4 hours on a bus and through quite a few time zones in a week might, just might, have an off night.

I won't give up on a guy under circumstances like that.


This sounds nice.

I will stick with Iro for now. This is a team for fu%$'s sake.

Iro is part of the team, and he has many physical attributes that we need. Let him prove himself.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:46 PM
All things being equal. I didn't see an improvement from us. Our offense is clicking, our defense is in shambles. Sometimes to fix the defense you have to sacrifice a bit of the offense. So I'm not convinced that we can just plug the whole in the defense and magically we'll continue to score three goals while allowing 1 every game.

My gutt tells me this new roster isn't much improved over the last one (yet). Next week will be telling. In my opinion, if we play the way we did today, we lose next week's game.

It's not like we were beaten constantly on the counter, and the fact that we played 2 DMs means does not mean we sacrifice our offense. All the goals we let in were gifts, stupid mistakes at the back.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:47 PM
Granted, our central defense has not improved, but anyone that has watched the last few games can surely acknowledge that our midfield and our forwards are much stronger. I would guess that TFC has scored more goals in the last 3 league games than in the previous 10 games combined.

The thing is, it seems as though this team is going all out attacks right now. The wide midfielders we had at the beginning of the season like Yourass, Peterson etc were balanced in that they could defend and attack. Although they weren't very good at attacking. Now it seems like we have guys who are alot more focused on attacking and it seems to be really exposing how bad our defense is. So that's why I say that I'm not sure you can just sign a new CB and all problems are fixed. It's possible that we are scoring more goals because we really aren't concentrating much on defense these days. I also want to see us score goals against an 11 man team that isn't below us in the standings. If that happens, maybe I'll become a believer.

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 10:49 PM
It's not like we were beaten constantly on the counter, and the fact that we played 2 DMs means does not mean we sacrifice our offense. All the goals we let in were gifts, stupid mistakes at the back.

Really? call me crazy, I felt like 10 men were beating us on the counter way too often tonight. In fact, a one man forward called Derosario was having a field day, even at times when it was 1 on 5. I guess I just saw an entirely different game.

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:50 PM
All things being equal. I didn't see an improvement from us. Our offense is clicking, our defense is in shambles. Sometimes to fix the defense you have to sacrifice a bit of the offense. So I'm not convinced that we can just plug the whole in the defense and magically we'll continue to score three goals while allowing 1 every game.

My gutt tells me this new roster isn't much improved over the last one (yet). Next week will be telling. In my opinion, if we play the way we did today, we lose next week's game.


Ok. I see what you're getting at.

For sure your are right. We need a better defense, but goal production does not seem to be a concern anymore. We need defenders who can play offensively but who hold the backline when under pressure.

Not easy, but it can be done.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 10:51 PM
The thing is, it seems as though this team is going all out attacks right now. The wide midfielders we had at the beginning of the season like Yourass, Peterson etc were balanced in that they could defend and attack. Although they weren't very good at attacking. Now it seems like we have guys who are alot more focused on attacking and it seems to be really exposing how bad our defense is. So that's why I say that I'm not sure you can just sign a new CB and all problems are fixed. It's possible that we are scoring more goals because we really aren't concentrating much on defense these days. I also want to see us score goals against an 11 man team that isn't below us in the standings. If that happens, maybe I'll become a believer.

But our defence has been terrible all season, maybe even worse, based on some of the scorelines earlier this year. The difference is that now we have the horses in the midfield and up front to keep us in matches despite the fact that we don't have any reliable centre backs at the moment. If we can plug those holes with Robinson, Viator, improved play from Iro and Henry, or new acquisitions, I honestly think we will have a solid lineup.

craigtfc
08-06-2011, 10:53 PM
Were not making the playoffs people. So why get frustrated?

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:53 PM
Really? call me crazy, I felt like 10 men were beating us on the counter way too often tonight. In fact, a one man forward called Derosario was having a field day, even at times when it was 1 on 5. I guess I just saw an entirely different game.

Well 1 on 5 shows a lack of competence instead of being caught out.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 10:55 PM
Were not making the playoffs people. So why get frustrated?

Because we like winning.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 10:59 PM
I don't blame Frings, I blame the guys sitting on the bench who can't play their natural position. Which is why I keep saying, This team has more then one problem at CB. It actually has many.

Our team has many problems on defense, period. I absolutely agree with you, Pachuco.

But on this particular night, I believe we were spectacularly let down by one particular player - a player who had, we thought, demonstrated at least competence at centre-back in Columbus.

Our offense did their job, and we should draw a positive from that. Our defense failed, and must be improved by Winter. He is accountable for their performance.

And for those mentioning Frei, he doesn't deserve flack for not saving the penalty. It's a pure guessing game, and while some keepers are better than others at reading shots, the reality is that the majority of penalties go in. His save percentage against penalties isn't good, but it also isn't fair to hold him accountable for that goal. Blame goes to Iro, for falling over his own feet, and shoving the DC player to the ground.

But again, on the positive side of things, our offense looked fine going forward. Three goals is a good result against a 10-man side, whatever we think of the keeper's performance.

- Scott

Alonso
08-06-2011, 10:59 PM
Go watch the replay at the end where DeRo almost gets his fourth as Torsten gets completely bossed by DeRo and tries falling over to get a foul. Who shows up to bail him out? Let's just say it's Iro-nic.


That's true, but Iro made many more mistakes that have nothing to do with this.

He saved Torsten, who was saving some one else, but so what?

Pachuco
08-06-2011, 11:00 PM
Well 1 on 5 shows a lack of competence instead of being caught out.

Which is why I'm saying, our new midfield right now may be stronger going forward, I'm not sure it's shown yet that it can defend as a unit as well. Kinda crazy when you think about all the DMs on this team. Although today I felt the problem was on the flanks, not so much down the middle.

craigtfc
08-06-2011, 11:09 PM
Because we like winning.
I understand completely. I do, we all would like too win but it's too late. We can get a higher draft pick and with the additions we have made late this season a high draft pick would benefit us well for next season . So we should call this season a write off and see what next season brings

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 11:09 PM
Do a bunch of you have me on ignore or something? I keep writing what I think are reasonably thoughtful posts, and no one seems to acknowledge their existence, haha.

You guys, you make-a-me sad.

- Scott

SKB
08-06-2011, 11:09 PM
I would have to check the stats but I do not think we have had a game where we scored less then 2 goals since we made all the changes. So the goals are coming and also from a variety of different players which is good.

We would have won the game except for the play of Iro. Should have won 3-1. He has given up two PK's in 4 or 5 games which cost us 2 points each time. So two wins turned into to 2 ties. The first game I watched I could see he was not the centre back were looking for. His feet are two slow. That's why the ball is always in his feet and gives up penalties. The problem is we have no replacements. This position will have to be addressed in the off season.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 11:10 PM
And how about Koevermans? He looked rusty out of the gate, but is getting the job done since then.

- Scott

Couchy81
08-06-2011, 11:12 PM
I understand completely. I do, we all would like too win but it's too late. We can get a higher draft pick and with the additions we have made late this season a high draft pick would benefit us well for next season . So we should call this season a write off and see what next season brings

Yes and focus on CCL. Play the youngins in MLS and play the starters in group stages later this month.

SKB
08-06-2011, 11:18 PM
While I agree we did not get much for DeRo. We have to remember how this all came about. The first mistake was paying JDG DP money that made DeRo jealous. They tried to pay him the money he wanted but because of the cap and also they could not pay him DP money because of league rules they could not give him the money he wanted. They checked with the league and they could not work a deal. Also DeRo asked for a trade. Nobody is going to pay him DP money in the league and he already got moved from NYRB. He is very effective under certain systems and others not. He con score but he is not a good passer.

The shame is that we ended up getting nothing for him. If we had got a top flight central defender it would have been worthwhile.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Our team has many problems on defense, period. I absolutely agree with you, Pachuco.

But on this particular night, I believe we were spectacularly let down by one particular player - a player who had, we thought, demonstrated at least competence at centre-back in Columbus.

Our offense did their job, and we should draw a positive from that. Our defense failed, and must be improved by Winter. He is accountable for their performance.

And for those mentioning Frei, he doesn't deserve flack for not saving the penalty. It's a pure guessing game, and while some keepers are better than others at reading shots, the reality is that the majority of penalties go in. His save percentage against penalties isn't good, but it also isn't fair to hold him accountable for that goal. Blame goes to Iro, for falling over his own feet, and shoving the DC player to the ground.

But again, on the positive side of things, our offense looked fine going forward. Three goals is a good result against a 10-man side, whatever we think of the keeper's performance.

- Scott


Do a bunch of you have me on ignore or something? I keep writing what I think are reasonably thoughtful posts, and no one seems to acknowledge their existence, haha.

You guys, you make-a-me sad.

- Scott

LOL, well said Shakes, well said.

TFC is a much improved club playing without competent central defenders on the backline at the moment. The result is that our club has suddenly become an offensive juggernaut, but we only have 1 loss and 2 draws in the last 3 league games to show for it.

Our only hope short of more player acquisitions is for guys like Viator and Robinson to be given an opportunity at CB and run with it.

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 11:22 PM
I understand completely. I do, we all would like too win but it's too late. We can get a higher draft pick and with the additions we have made late this season a high draft pick would benefit us well for next season . So we should call this season a write off and see what next season brings

Writing off the season for a higher draft pick would be insane. Why should we support them if Winter's not willing to go for the win every single time they play?

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 11:23 PM
I think our offense is much improved from what it was. I think our defense is still rubbish - but yes, maybe Viator and Robinson can help.

I'm not holding my breath, though. It seems clear to me that Winter needs to do serious scouting and homework, and find a couple of central defenders who can reliably play above-average football. Maybe a left-back too.

- Scott

PopePouri
08-06-2011, 11:25 PM
I think our offense is much improved from what it was. I think our defense is still rubbish - but yes, maybe Viator and Robinson can help.

I'm not holding my breath, though. It seems clear to me that Winter needs to do serious scouting and homework, and find a couple of central defenders who can reliably play above-average football. Maybe a left-back too.

- Scott

I thought the Cann/Williams partnership was decent in the beginning of the season. It's a pity Gargan and Borman were playing on either side of them

ua-kozak_TFC
08-06-2011, 11:26 PM
anybody else extremely impressed w avila. i think he played really well for a first game they almost playing him as a linker behind the forwards. excellent control of the ball.

Nuvinho
08-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Some things that I saw that weren't mentioned here.

- When TFC scored the 2nd or 3rd goal (can't remember which one) the camera panned over to the TFC bench and Borman and someone else was just sitting there not celebrating

- After the 3rd goal - Kovermans went up to Iro to encourage him and make him feel better. Before Kovermans and Frings no one would of done that to a young player

I am hoping that DK or Frings goes and chats with Iro and give him a word or two of encouragement. He is a young player and his confidence is gone now.

ManUtd4ever
08-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Yes, lost in all the disappointment tonight was the play of Avila. I also thought he played his role at AM very effectively, and he almost scored in his debut.

Shakes McQueen
08-06-2011, 11:29 PM
I thought the Cann/Williams partnership was decent in the beginning of the season. It's a pity Gargan and Borman were playing on either side of them

Yeah, I sometimes forget that we have more than one defender out on long term injury. It's difficult to really assess what we have back there, when you can't look at guys like Cann and Williams.

If TFC buy out JDG this winter, though, we should still have more than enough cap space to get a couple of above-average defenders, or maybe even one marquee defender. Winter just needs to do the scouting necessary.

- Scott