Post game thread: DCU 3 - TFC 3

[craigtfc]

Yes and focus on CCL. Play the youngins in MLS and play the starters in group stages later this month.
YES! 100 percent agree crouchy. Give the young kids a chance to shine and make for some friendly competition next year.

[Shakes McQueen]

Some things that I saw that weren't mentioned here.

- When TFC scored the 2nd or 3rd goal (can't remember which one) the camera panned over to the TFC bench and Borman and someone else was just sitting there not celebrating

- After the 3rd goal - Kovermans went up to Iro to encourage him and make him feel better. Before Kovermans and Frings no one would of done that to a young player

I am hoping that DK or Frings goes and chats with Iro and give him a word or two of encouragement. He is a young player and his confidence is gone now.

I saw Koov do that too. Classy move by him. You'd half expect Koevermans and Frings to be sitting there thinking "who is this joke?" after the night Iro had, but instead Koov tried to give him a vote of confidence.

Definitely speaks to Koov's character as a player.

- Scott

[ManUtd4ever]

Some things that I saw that weren't mentioned here.

- When TFC scored the 2nd or 3rd goal (can't remember which one) the camera panned over to the TFC bench and Borman and someone else was just sitting there not celebrating

- After the 3rd goal - Kovermans went up to Iro to encourage him and make him feel better. Before Kovermans and Frings no one would of done that to a young player

I am hoping that DK or Frings goes and chats with Iro and give him a word or two of encouragement. He is a young player and his confidence is gone now.

Agreed, although I think it's time for Iro to sit and for Winter to give the other new CBs an opportunity to impress. I also believe Iro should be given a chance to redeem himself at some point, but a few games off might benefit him down the road.

[ag futbol]

The kids aren't going to progress simply by being thrown on the field. These guys need to be phased into the team in a professional manner with professional players around them. Playing kids with more kids when they aren't ready just makes for a sloppy outfit and that's counterproductive to their development.

Also, nobody should have any illusions about how many will actually transition to the first team. If we get ONE solid player our of this years crop that's a good return. Most of these guys simply won't make it long run.

[brad]

I am hoping that DK or Frings goes and chats with Iro and give him a word or two of encouragement. He is a young player and his confidence is gone now.

Agree with the sentiment, but Iro is almost 27 which is anything but young.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

I think our offense is much improved from what it was.


This current squad has scored four more goals than the hapless (record drought breaking) 2007 Danny Dichio squad and given up two more goals in the same number of games!

Much improved? Really???

FFS! We played 85 minutes against 10 men and we scrap a draw??? Much improved?

Thank God Frings was marking DeRo or he might have scored 5 or 6 tonight…

[Shakes McQueen]

This current squad has scored four more goals than the hapless (record drought breaking) 2007 Danny Dichio squad and given up two more goals in the same number of games!

Much improved? Really???

FFS! We played 85 minutes against 10 men and we scrap a draw??? Much improved?

Thank God Frings was marking DeRo or he might have scored 5 or 6 tonight…

It's much improved since the transfer deadline. Obviously I'm not talking about our hapless offense from most of the season.

And as you note in my quote - I was talking specifically about our OFFENSE. I went on to say our defense was rubbish, which would account for the draw.

I've got no problem with criticism, but at least address my points honestly.

- Scott

[PopePouri]

This current squad has scored four more goals than the hapless (record drought breaking) 2007 Danny Dichio squad and given up two more goals in the same number of games!


Obviously he's assessing it after the trades.

[Borga]

As always, the panic and rage around here is hilarious. One night the mood is happy, we're moving in the right direction, the next everyone should be drawn & quartered. This board is nuts.

[ManUtd4ever]

This current squad has scored four more goals than the hapless (record drought breaking) 2007 Danny Dichio squad and given up two more goals in the same number of games!

Much improved? Really???



He was referring to the current roster versus the offensively challenged roster we had prior to the transfer window. If you have watched the last few games, it's a completely accurate statement.

[RedRum]

What happened....I guess I missed something?

Marosevic goal... goes running over to the District Ultras corner, slides on his knees and fist pumps them - sadly with half the effort he could have looked up and ackowledged our own supporters who were right above him. I am tired of this shit. Seen it happen too many times at BMO in 112/113 and 127. Behaviour like this around the league can lead to only one eventuality - and it will be ugly.

Respect to the District Ultras for showing restraint and not throwing a single item. Same scenario at BMO and it would have been 4 beers, 2 slices of pizza, a hotdog, and a few coins.

[Shakes McQueen]

Respect to the District Ultras for showing restraint and not throwing a single item. Same scenario at BMO and it would have been 4 beers, 2 slices of pizza, a hotdog, and a few coins.

This is a blatant lie. Anyone at BMO who buys four beers, two slices of pizza and a hotdog clearly wouldn't have any money left to throw.

Maybe they could throw the deed for their second mortgage.

- Scott

[PopePouri]

Yeah, I sometimes forget that we have more than one defender out on long term injury. It's difficult to really assess what we have back there, when you can't look at guys like Cann and Williams.

If TFC buy out JDG this winter, though, we should still have more than enough cap space to get a couple of above-average defenders, or maybe even one marquee defender. Winter just needs to do the scouting necessary.

- Scott

He may just stick with what he has as in looking at the current crop of guys plus Cann and Williams. That depends on how Viator and/or Robinson play in the centre when they get the chance. Henry may also get signed to senior contract.

Both Williams and Cann are capable starters.

I think JDG's salary will go elsewhere besides defenders, possibly to finalize Plata's contract.

[Couchy81]

He was referring to the current roster versus the offensively challenged roster we had prior to the transfer window. If you have watched the last few games, it's a completely accurate statement.

I still can't fathom how people keep complaining about the first half of the season while the new team is on the pitch, and responding like they were the ones who lacked in ability.

First game of the season roster, March 19 2011:

Stefan Frei**, Dan Gargan, Nana Attakora, Ty Harden, Adrian Cann, Nathan Sturgis (Gianluca Zavarise 69), Dwayne De Rosario, Jacob Peterson (Mikael Yourassowsky 71), Nick Soolsma (Keith Makubuya 46), Maicon Santos, Javier Martina

**Players in bold were on the field in DC tonight.

[Heathen]

Marosevic goal... goes running over to the District Ultras corner, slides on his knees and fist pumps them - sadly with half the effort he could have looked up and ackowledged our own supporters who were right above him. I am tired of this shit. Seen it happen too many times at BMO in 112/113 and 127. Behaviour like this around the league can lead to only one eventuality - and it will be ugly.

Respect to the District Ultras for showing restraint and not throwing a single item. Same scenario at BMO and it would have been 4 beers, 2 slices of pizza, a hotdog, and a few coins.


someone should have a word with him that this is not acceptable as it has been done to us numerous times and we don't like it

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Wasn't personal Shakes, just making the point that this team is still crap. Frings has elevated it to this point…from shite. And the facts are this team with three tonight have scored only four more than a team that went 4 games without a game to start 2007 and 9 mid season! That is a fact…even with trades. How'd those players work for you tonight?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Toronto_FC_season

This current team is going to wind up with a poorer goal difference than the Dichio team…that, for me, is just unbelievable.

DeRo was a class above, as I expected, he tends to rise to occasions and this was an occasion.

I've read all week here about how Frings was going to mark him off the pitch and break this and that.

DeRo stepped up and delivered.

[Shakes McQueen]

Wasn't personal Shakes, just making the point that this team is still crap. Frings has elevated it to this point…from shite. And the facts are this team with three tonight have scored only four more than a team that went 4 games without a game to start 2007 and 9 mid season! That is a fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Toronto_FC_season

This current team is going to wind up with a poorer goal difference than the Dichio team…that, for me, is just unbelievable.

And as I said, this information is largely irrelevant to the point I was making - our offense is much improved since the transfer window, which currently only amounts to a handful of games.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Terrible performance really. Frings was ordinary. Then again, he was playing at the back for most of the 2nd half.

TFC should have won that match but blew it.

[ag futbol]

Let's see us score goals and play like a team defensively. Scoring is less encouraging when the opponents are weak, down a man, or already blowing us out at the point we score.

This team isn't going to magically transform into anything unless it hashes out some issues, and those just aren't just related to the talent level of our players.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Obviously he's assessing it after the trades.

As in Dero for Tchani for Iro?

[Couchy81]

DeRo was a class above, as I expected, he tends to rise to occasions and this was an occasion.


As deserving as any DP should be



I've read all week here about how Frings was going to mark him off the pitch and break this and that.



All I've read is how Frings would go for a hard tackle on the legs and Dero would sidestep and score. That wasn't even a factor tonight, first goal was horrible defence off a set piece, second goal was a gift from Iro and then the penalty shot goal

[PopePouri]

As in Dero for Tchani for Iro?

What's that got to do with the offensive improvements?

[ManUtd4ever]

I still can't fathom how people keep complaining about the first half of the season while the new team is on the pitch, and responding like they were the ones who lacked in ability.

First game of the season roster, March 19 2011:

Stefan Frei**, Dan Gargan, Nana Attakora, Ty Harden, Adrian Cann, Nathan Sturgis (Gianluca Zavarise 69), Dwayne De Rosario, Jacob Peterson (Mikael Yourassowsky 71), Nick Soolsma (Keith Makubuya 46), Maicon Santos, Javier Martina

**Players in bold were on the field in DC tonight.

Our 2011 regular season is a write off, so in that context, I understand the sentiment. However, I agree that if we're going to judge this team as it's currently constructed, as opposed to judging the 2011 season, we have to evaluate the performances since the transfer window based on their own merits, or lack thereof.

As of July 15th, TFC is 0-2-2 in league play, and 2-0-0 in the CCL.

The results have been underwhelming thus far. Unfortunately, one defender has caused 3 PKs in those matches, 2 of which directly resulted in the last 2 league draws that would have otherwise been victories. Nonetheless, there have been definite signs of improvement.

[ag futbol]

All I've read is how Frings would go for a hard tackle on the legs and Dero would sidestep and score. That wasn't even a factor tonight, first goal was horrible defence off a set piece, second goal was a gift from Iro and then the penalty shot goal
Dero pretty much had his way with anyone who was marking him tonight, Frings included.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

And as I said, this information is largely irrelevant to the point I was making - our offense is much improved since the transfer window, which currently only amounts to a handful of games.

- Scott

Based on shite to crap since the transfer window? Do you believe this squad will have a better goal difference than the 2007 team, with the "much improved offence"?

Just asking?

I see where your going but does it really matter if you let in more than you can score?

[Borga]

What does the goal difference have to do with anything, when it's a completely different team now than the one that started out the season?

[Whoop]

Games at the beginning of the year still count in the standings. There's no Apertura or Clausura in MLS.

Instead of fooling around with a winter schedule (and following the FIFA calendar) maybe MLS should look at an Apertura or Clasura schedule given that the transfer window opens up in the middle of the season.

[bgnewf]

A Draw For TFC Snatched From The Jaws Of Victory

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/08/draw-in-dc/

In this post game video blog I lament having only roughly sixty seconds to enjoy the thoughts of a Toronto FC road victory in DC against United before it is cruelly snatched away and turns into a less than satisfying 3-3 draw.

In this edition I also give deserved praise to DeRo and his hat trick, I again give praise to Aron Winter getting his substitutions generally right, I heap more praise on Danny K who now has three goals in four MLS matches and I lament what might be the worst game from a defender (from Andy Iro unfortunately) in a season replete with them for Toronto FC.

[Alixir]

anyhoo...I missed the game and only watched the game in 6 and this is my conclusion...

Iro is shit.
Dero is a scrub.
Frei still can't save a PK to save his life.
after playing up a man for about 85 minutes against a keeper that played a horrible game, TFC let this one get away. yeah they scored 3, yeah they didn't lose, but I would probably feel better about this game if we lost say 2-1 or 1-0. Dero's little flop at the end was pretty funny looking....looked like he was shot in the back as he dropped.

[ag futbol]

What does the goal difference have to do with anything, when it's a completely different team now than the one that started out the season?
Because it has a lot to do with our overall futility and we're still leaking goals. Players have changed, the results have not changed as much as the quality of the opponents we've played has.

The team is still playing at a MLS doormat level.

[jloome]

My comment was specifically in relation to that goal. The team fell asleep for a big chunk of the match. No disagreement. But that particular play, the onus is on Frings.

Not really. He read what was happening before anyone else and tried to charge in to cover but was too late, that's all. We already had four defenders between DeRosario and the goal by that point and none of them closed him down. That's why the goal was scored, not because frings didn't get across in the midfield.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

What does the goal difference have to do with anything, when it's a completely different team now than the one that started out the season?

Because we are comparing teams since the "transfer window".

First 6 games* -3
Last 6 games* -9

*league games

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Goals for…

First 6 games* 4
Last 6 games* 7

*league games

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Shakes isn't incorrect this team IS better offensively but we are weaker defensively…and by a vastly greater number.

The numbers add up to crap versus shite and even then I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I understand we are looking for positives but their still on the negative side. The numbers don't lie…we can say were better but the record says otherwise.

Record first 6 v last 6

First 6 games* LWTTTL
Last 6 games* TTLLLL

*league games

http://www.torontofc.ca/schedule

[Couchy81]

Shakes isn't incorrect this team IS better offensively but we are weaker defensively…and by a vastly greater number.



It's no coincidence since Cann was injured May 31 and Williams injured June 10 our goals against has increased.

[TFCwestcan]

From what has been observed this season with the evidence of trades etc, you can be be sure that Winter and Marnier are aware of the deficiency in the the defense and that will be addressed. Disappointing about Iro, I suspect that either he has lost it or that he is still regaining form.
Good for Julian to finally pot one.

[nickio]

The only right thing to do (for the coaches) about Iro is to help him get through the low point, slump of his career and NOT to barrage him with criticism and negativity. His confidence is SO LOW that punishment or anything simply will not help.

Whether or not he has future with TFC is very unclear, but if they help the player, at least we maybe able to get something for him...

[los sonadores]

Not really. He read what was happening before anyone else and tried to charge in to cover but was too late, that's all. We already had four defenders between DeRosario and the goal by that point and none of them closed him down. That's why the goal was scored, not because frings didn't get across in the midfield.

Yeah, Frings was the only one awake here, although not awake enough, sadly. Not sure what every one else was thinking, you know DeRo's going to be involved in that scenario.

[J .]

I dont want DeRo back, at all, horrible idea.

Iro has been atrocious, but TFC at points looked very good. Fact is if Iro didnt shit the bed, TFC would have dominated DCU and the possession stats show the dominance.

In defense of Iro, if there could be any, the backs were pressed up high so often on the counter attacks it was Iro 1v1 with MeRo and not too many players would do well. Sadly, his gaffes were not of MeRos making and overshadowed greatly some very good defending he put in. Boneheaded mistakes totally ruined some pretty decent 1v1 marking. Watch the replays, sadly Iros undoing is all his fault, not from DCU.

How Winter does not realize you cannot leave your CBS in MLS to their own devices is beyond my understanding. Every match our backs are pressed high and TFC is considerably weak against a pacy counter attack. Poor coaching.

[Alonso]

Shakes isn't incorrect this team IS better offensively but we are weaker defensively…and by a vastly greater number.

The numbers add up to crap versus shite and even then I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I understand we are looking for positives but their still on the negative side. The numbers don't lie…we can say were better but the record says otherwise.

Record first 6 v last 6

First 6 games* LWTTTL
Last 6 games* TTLLLL

*league games

http://www.torontofc.ca/schedule

We tied our last two league games no? Our last 5 is LLLDD

[Blowing Bubbles]

i thought all of our defensive issues would disappear once we got rid of all the the stupid and lazy Americans?

[Oldtimer]

i thought all of our defensive issues would disappear once we got rid of all the the stupid and lazy Americans?

No one ever said that. Stop trolling.

[profit89]

Frings is a beast !

[Oldtimer]

Mariner/Klinny are to be commended in vastly improving our offense from one that depended on one man (DeRo), to a multi-player threat that scores goals every game. In 4 years of TFC, I never had the confidence that the team would score in any match, yet I had virtually no doubt that they would score at least one goal this game. When you depend only on one player, that player will sometimes have off games where he will disappear. DC without a pumped DeRo would have lost that match 3-0. Hopefully Mariner will fix the backline in the January transfer window so that will be strong, as well.

This game, despite the huge disappointment, actually had a lot of positives:

* Frings is the real deal. As Nigel Reid said on the last Soccer Show, easily one of the 10 best players in MLS. He makes the whole squad look better.

* De Guzman stepping up. If he played every game like last night, we might not even need to get rid of him :) (I think even with him here, we'll have some decent cap space to work with next year to sign some quality in back).

* 3 goals, 3 different players.

* absolutely dominating DC in possession. Look at the stats.

* You can see that the team is starting to gel.

* The game was exciting to watch.

[tfc007]

Iro is a fucken horrible defender from the minute i saw this fucker play! I am glad to see that we have been scoring quite a bit so thats a nice change, and for Dero just what I excpected from him and dont know how our fucken owners could let a guy like this go.I hope Iro sits the rest of this year and release him at end of season,We have seen to many of these types of player over the last 5 years and dont want to go through another Nick Garcia era, fuck him get rid of him!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pookie]

Shakes, I'll acknowledge your well thought out pieces.

As for a number of other posts from people other than Shakes, I cannot believe the number of folks that are acknowledging the team looked tired yet still conclude it should have been a non-factor.

One team was home and cooled for a week. The other spent over 22 hours on planes, 4 hours on buses and put their heads down on pillows in 3 separate time zones.

We can conclude that our new defensive player is shit, despite being a 6th overall draft pick, 3 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year honours and being a First Team All-American.

Or we can say you know what? He, like quite a few others looked tired and if you were preparing an athlete to perform at their peak, you sure as heck wouldn't fly them out to Portland, Nicaragua, Toronto and then on to DC in the span of 7 days.

Reasons aren't excuses folks. Step back from the ledge.

[bigbamboom]

Yes Iro sucked tonight - but Paul Mariner evaluated his ability and upside and felt he could bring it - was he right or wrong - I won't judge after 3 games....as a former pro - TRAVEL absolutely kills you - at this point in the season....we were tired.

As for the squad - very very excited by the young talent we have amassed - Avilia looked great, and our DP's excelled...some of the new pick ups and our young talent are going to really come into their own under Winter.

I thought the Ecks sub off was awesome - as his biggest fan - I thought he looked tired and for Winter to sub him off for Stinson ... we'll to me was a clear indication that if you don't preform - I've got a bench.

I feel so very optimistic in the future of the club - for the first time in 5 years - the future looks very bright. Finally our new DP's are CLASSY. What impresses me about Koevermanns is how he handles himself on the Pitch....with the refs, the opposition, great role model and he DELIVERS.

Frings is and will be our Captain for the next few years - and a privilege to watch and watch him develop our young players.

:scarf::scarf:

Thank you MLSE for making these moves....

[Parkdale]

Respect to the District Ultras for showing restraint and not throwing a single item. Same scenario at BMO and it would have been 4 beers, 2 slices of pizza, a hotdog, and a few coins.


depending on the value of the coins and the size of the beers.... that's like 80 bucks right there!

[Mikey]

80 BUCKS!, isn't that like a days pay for some of our "Major League" players?

[ag futbol]

* absolutely dominating DC in possession. Look at the stats.
We were up a man, I would hope we would dominate them in possession.

[Canary10]

Franchise quality centre backs grow on trees in this league. And yet we go get someone's garbage at the curb like Iro?!!! I have to conclude that Winter/Mariner have to go NOW! And MLSE FO is total shitw. Sell the team to someone who really wants to win - like Rogers!

[canadian_bhoy]

Can't believe how much dero hand jobbing is going on in this thread. Getting rid of him was a great move and one I still agree with.

Does he score goals? Of course.

Is our problem scoring? Not really. Our biggest problem is defending - and a locker room cancer ball hog that doesn't really run back isn't going to help that.

[king dave]

^^What he said.
KD.

[Pachuco]

Shakes, I'll acknowledge your well thought out pieces.

As for a number of other posts from people other than Shakes, I cannot believe the number of folks that are acknowledging the team looked tired yet still conclude it should have been a non-factor.

One team was home and cooled for a week. The other spent over 22 hours on planes, 4 hours on buses and put their heads down on pillows in 3 separate time zones.

We can conclude that our new defensive player is shit, despite being a 6th overall draft pick, 3 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year honours and being a First Team All-American.

Or we can say you know what? He, like quite a few others looked tired and if you were preparing an athlete to perform at their peak, you sure as heck wouldn't fly them out to Portland, Nicaragua, Toronto and then on to DC in the span of 7 days.

Reasons aren't excuses folks. Step back from the ledge.

I'm not one jumping all over Iro. But he hasn't played a game where he looked good with TFC. This is more of a pattern then an anomoly. It's also concerning that the same stuff we are seeing here is the same reason Columbass didn't care to see him gone and why he found his way on to the bench over there. So it's not as straight forward as you make it seem.

And I haven't heard anyone say that the travel should have been a none factor. There were lots of factors in this game. From both team's standpoint.

[Canary_canuck]

This is the history of our club but I thought he treated his success at our expense respectfully, just as Carl Robinson did in New York a couple of years ago. I'm not sure who was credited with our third goal but I noticed that in the celebrations Koevermans was especially supportive of Iro. That is being a good team mate. The acquisition of Frings and Koevermans has already given TFC more fighting spirit and, with one or two exceptions, this is a pretty decent line-up.And this is not from a cheerleader, my son and I gave up our season tickets this year. I actually see grounds for optimism.

[TorontoGooner]

"Agent Iro, this is Columbus Center, your mission to destruct Toronto is complete. Please return to base."

[swan]

fuck all you haters, I'm getting Iro on my jersey

i'm not calling you Liar i just don't believe you..

[rocker]

Can't believe how much dero hand jobbing is going on in this thread. Getting rid of him was a great move and one I still agree with.

Does he score goals? Of course.

Is our problem scoring? Not really. Our biggest problem is defending - and a locker room cancer ball hog that doesn't really run back isn't going to help that.

True... and what happened to De Ro last night? He scored three goals and his team didn't win. Where did we see that? Oh ya, in Toronto. De Ro has always been known for his individual performances -- but they don't always mean the team wins.

Interestingly, all the quotes I've read this morning from DC are about how they have had trouble winning at home this year, how they should have beat a "bad team" at home last night etc.

[Pachuco]

This is the history of our club but I thought he treated his success at our expense respectfully, just as Carl Robinson did in New York a couple of years ago. I'm not sure who was credited with our third goal but I noticed that in the celebrations Koevermans was especially supportive of Iro. That is being a good team mate. The acquisition of Frings and Koevermans has already given TFC more fighting spirit and, with one or two exceptions, this is a pretty decent line-up.And this is not from a cheerleader, my son and I gave up our season tickets this year. I actually see grounds for optimism.

I'll admit it...I have a man crush on Koevs. Very close to changing my Avatar.

[Canary_canuck]

I have been a Canary fan since 1959 and go to their games every time I'm on holiday in Norfolk ( my younger brother still lives there and is on the waiting list for season tickets ). Still fondly remember the epic Eastern Daily Press headline " Bly, Bly Babes " after we beat Man U in the FA Cup in 1959. I saw both Carl Robinson and Jim Brennan play at Carrow Road. Preki should never have got rid of Robinson, his vision at the centre of defence was great. Nice to see another NCFC fan in Toronto. I once left a Canary pennant in a bar downtown and the bar manager told me that, two years later, noone had asked about it ( it was up on the wall ). I was crushed!!!!
On the Ball, TFC!!!!

[Pachuco]

True... and what happened to De Ro last night? He scored three goals and his team didn't win. Where did we see that? Oh ya, in Toronto. De Ro has always been known for his individual performances -- but they don't always mean the team wins.

Interestingly, all the quotes I've read this morning from DC are about how they have had trouble winning at home this year, how they should have beat a "bad team" at home last night etc.

You are right, Dero should have been in net last night. I'm sure everyone in DC is thinking, fuck that Dero guy, everytime he's on the pitch we don't win.

[ag futbol]

True... and what happened to De Ro last night? He scored three goals and his team didn't win. Where did we see that? Oh ya, in Toronto. De Ro has always been known for his individual performances -- but they don't always mean the team wins.
Honestly, the guy scored a hat trick while his team was down a man for 90 minutes. What more do you want?

[Kaz]

That was the first near full game I watched in a while, because the team has been painfully bad, still track the games but just didn't want to put my heart through it.

I was sad to see Iro screw up so badly. But I don't think he should have been left on the field. You had to know that both DC forwards were going to work at countering. We needed a guy with legs that could keep up.

It's still what we are missing. I kinda wish we had Marvel Wynne in CB right now.

Of all the trades made in the last few weeks Iro was the only one that seems to have been really bad. It means one of three things.

1) the other teams are hesitant to trade away a CB and toronto didn't have enough on the table to get someone with pace and skill.

2) The other teams are scared of us and don't want to trade a CB to us.

3) there is a break down in scouting with defensive players.


The game played simple DC played a fortress system and hoped to catch us off guard on the counter. Which is exactly how it played out. They did exactly what they should have done in a 10 man situation, and they had Dero one of the few guys in the league that could do that.

I hope Iro has another skill, maybe investment banking or welding

[rocker]

He, like quite a few others looked tired and if you were preparing an athlete to perform at their peak, you sure as heck wouldn't fly them out to Portland, Nicaragua, Toronto and then on to DC in the span of 7 days.

Reasons aren't excuses folks. Step back from the ledge.

Yup. Eckersley looked tired... wasn't himself... Dunfield looked dead when he was taken off. Plata wasn't running, was definitely tired and getting muscled off every ball -- didn't have that usual jump to fight against bigger players. Johnson seemed less active.

The recent travels and the tiredness that comes with it definitely affected the team last night. That DC couldn't take advantage of this is the surprise to me. I predicted a sure loss.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

True... and what happened to De Ro last night? He scored three goals and his team didn't win.

Are you sure you didn't mean…"and his team played with 10 men for 80 odd minutes…and didn't win."

[maninb]

No chance I'd want that greedy, me-first player MeRo back...he threw his teammates under the bus every chance he got....decent player, but a cancer...

[felipe]

Since noone asked, I'll give my two cents..

We must start Iro next game, its crucial to his confidence and development; anyone can have a bad game - he looks like a real player to me. Even the best have howlers like that sometimes...

Something that I really noticed...JDG is playing a little better - at almost the same level as Dunfield and Stinson...somehow, I expected more from this DP, who has never, ever delivered in the TFC colours anywhere close to his reputation, or to what he did in the past for the nat'l team...

Thats about it really....watching the game I was wishing we had DeRo now, with this group of players, some real quality around him - instead of the jokers he had to carry on his back while he was here...can you imagine how devestating he'd be with Johnson, koover, Plata, Frings, Dunfield, and Ecks? Thats some real balance and menace...

[19Barrett19]

Undefeated in 4 matches when is the last time you could say that team is making progress ... its a little disappointing that Iro had to make all those errors but i think this is his preseason too. When everyone gets into form we will play well. lots of positives from the match. the next few games will have a different story line with TFC wins i an liking the progress. adrian cann whould be on that back line we need to sign a mccenna considering cann might not come back or recover. that game sould of been 3-0 TFC if cannHope winter gives him a game or twho as a sub

TFC all the way..,....... PROGRESS!

[Pachuco]

Yup. Eckersley looked tired... wasn't himself... Dunfield looked dead when he was taken off. Plata wasn't running, was definitely tired and getting muscled off every ball -- didn't have that usual jump to fight against bigger players. Johnson seemed less active.

The recent travels and the tiredness that comes with it definitely affected the team last night. That DC couldn't take advantage of this is the surprise to me. I predicted a sure loss.

Even after getting a man advantage at the beginning of the game?

[maninb]

Like I've posted previously Iro was voted PLAYER OF THE YEAR at Columbus LAST YEAR(by the coaches and players)....Can a young guy DETERIORATE that badly in one year???....beginning to look like it....

[rocker]

Honestly, the guy scored a hat trick while his team was down a man for 90 minutes. What more do you want?

You can't expect more from De Ro. Who said I expected more from De Ro? I expected more from the DC *team*.

Just like in Toronto, people get blinded by De Ro's individual brilliance. They think "well, ok, thank god we got a tie thanks to the wonderful De Rosario!!!"

But De Ro is perfect for last night's situation, when the DC keeper fucks up royally, when his teammates don't play that well. He's a lone wolf. He takes charge in situations like this.

DC's success will come from improving the players around him, not relying on De Ro to score three goals.

But fitting De Ro into a proper team system will be the challenge for DC. If the plan is "let De Ro save us every night" then they're fine (they'll be an average team). Once they try to put him into a proper system, they'll get frustrated.

[Canary10]

I have been a Canary fan since 1959 and go to their games every time I'm on holiday in Norfolk ( my younger brother still lives there and is on the waiting list for season tickets ). Still fondly remember the epic Eastern Daily Press headline " Bly, Bly Babes " after we beat Man U in the FA Cup in 1959. I saw both Carl Robinson and Jim Brennan play at Carrow Road. Preki should never have got rid of Robinson, his vision at the centre of defence was great. Nice to see another NCFC fan in Toronto. I once left a Canary pennant in a bar downtown and the bar manager told me that, two years later, noone had asked about it ( it was up on the wall ). I was crushed!!!!
On the Ball, TFC!!!!

I cannot BELIEVE there is another NCFC fan on this board. Awesome! My mum's cousin played with the in the 80s - Andy Mendham.

[InDa_110]

No chance I'd want that greedy, me-first player MeRo back...he threw his teammates under the bus every chance he got....decent player, but a cancer...


So you must work for the club each day, travel with them, attend practices and meetings to have this insight.

He wanted to get paid what he was worth, and TFC didn"t do that and last night proved what a terrible mistake it was.

Who did he throw under the bus anyway?

It's about winning, is his attitude 100% mr. nice guy, probably not, but he's the best player we ever had, and probably one of the best the league will ever have. Part of managing professional athletes is also the ability to manage ego's and personalities. Just look at any professional sport, and to make a judgement call as to whether the skills and abilitites of the athletet is worth the time, effort and concessions to manage that person. TFC didn"t do that with DERO and it was proven last night what a mistake that was.

[Canary10]

That should say Peter Mendham. Andy is my uncle. Duh.

[ag futbol]

DC's success will come from improving the players around him, not relying on De Ro to score three goals.
There is still no evidence that Dero is a hindrance to their team. DC has improved since he's arrived, we have regressed since he left.

We can talk about subjective things like attitude but we have no basis to speak because we're not in the room, so we don't know what the real story is. He could have been the most vocal guy in a room of desperately unhappy players or a petulant jerk. We have no context.

BTW the shot of the bench last night of guys sitting down when we scored said it all, and maybe should be a cue to anyone who is going to bullhorn the message that the team atmosphere has improved.

[InDa_110]

You can't expect more from De Ro. Who said I expected more from De Ro? I expected more from the DC *team*.

Just like in Toronto, people get blinded by De Ro's individual brilliance. They think "well, ok, thank god we got a tie thanks to the wonderful De Rosario!!!"

But De Ro is perfect for last night's situation, when the DC keeper fucks up royally, when his teammates don't play that well. He's a lone wolf. He takes charge in situations like this.

DC's success will come from improving the players around him, not relying on De Ro to score three goals.

But fitting De Ro into a proper team system will be the challenge for DC. If the plan is "let De Ro save us every night" then they're fine (they'll be an average team). Once they try to put him into a proper system, they'll get frustrated.

Is there really such a thing as a "proper system" in the MLS?

I'll take the individual talent of his calibre to win games own his own, because it's not just skill, it's heart. Despite the bs on this board about his attitude and even calling him a "cancer", which by the way is very insulting to anyone who has or has someone in their family with cancer, Dero play with heart and that can't be denied. Which player, with ability, other than Dichio played with more heart for TFC than Dero ever?

[rocker]

Is there really such a thing as a "proper system" in the MLS?

I'll take the individual talent of his calibre to win games own his own, because it's not just skill, it's heart. Despite the bs on this board about his attitude and even calling him a "cancer", which by the way is very insulting to anyone who has or has someone in their family with cancer, Dero play with heart and that can't be denied. Which player, with ability, other than Dichio played with more heart for TFC than Dero ever?

DUDE.. I'M NOT ARGUING THAT HEART DOESN'T MATTER>

HE IS A GREAT PLAYER. HE SCORES GOALS.

I agree with you on those points.

But let's look at this: TFC has had goals from what, 4 different players in the past two league games. DC has had 5 goals from 1 player. Over the long run, that is bad. You cannot succeed in this league by depending on a lone wolf player who doesn't play a system but who will take you on his back sometimes. Cuz when he stops scoring, who do you turn to?

Winter's offensive system means we can get contributions from more than just De Rosario.

I think De Ro is a fucking amazing wonderful, INDIVIDUAL. I don't think he's great within a system.
NYRB realized this. Toronto realized this. DC will realize this, with time, if they try to create a proper system. If their goal is just "give it to De Ro" they will never be more than average. RSL, LA, Dallas -- they do not rely on 1 guy to score all their goals.

[maninb]

Who did he throw under the bus anyway???

Well here's just one example.....In that disasterous 5-0 loss to NY on the final game of the season a while back he SAID.."I showed tonight but it's a shame NOBODY ELSE on this team did".....FYI...HE SUCKED AS BAD AS EVERYONE ELSE THAT NIGHT!!!

[Canary10]

Is there really such a thing as a "proper system" in the MLS?

I'll take the individual talent of his calibre to win games own his own, because it's not just skill, it's heart. Despite the bs on this board about his attitude and even calling him a "cancer", which by the way is very insulting to anyone who has or has someone in their family with cancer, Dero play with heart and that can't be denied. Which player, with ability, other than Dichio played with more heart for TFC than Dero ever?

I'd say he's all heart. He's actually not a particularly skilled player. He showed class last night. Didn't think he had that in him. I'm glad he's gone though. Those types of players are really frustrating to play with.

[flatpicker]

DC has improved since he's arrived, we have regressed since he left.


That was true earlier in the year, but I don't think it's the case now.
The team that currently suits up for Toronto is better than the one DeRo was traded from.


Also, I feel bad for Iro.
He looked like he wanted to crawl under a rock last night.
He has shown great things in the past (not with Toronto).
So, I wouldn't give up on him just yet.
Push him hard, try to get his confidence back, and see what happens.
Our season is already fucked, so there isn't a rush to replace him immediately.
Hopefully he can get his act together in time for CCL.

[ag futbol]

Who did he throw under the bus anyway???

Well here's just one example.....In that disasterous 5-0 loss to NY on the final game of the season a while back he SAID.."I showed tonight but it's a shame NOBODY ELSE on this team did".....FYI...HE SUCKED AS BAD AS EVERYONE ELSE THAT NIGHT!!!
I'm sure if people wanted to be lawyers they could find examples of all kinds of players throwing each other "under the bus". Example: Javier Martina quotes in espn.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: we're not running a country club here and collecting the nicest, most pleasant collection of individuals. The team is supposed to win and function, I don't care if they are nice people or like each other.

[Heathen]

DUDE.. I'M NOT ARGUING THAT HEART DOESN'T MATTER>

HE IS A GREAT PLAYER. HE SCORES GOALS.

I agree with you on those points.

But let's look at this: TFC has had goals from what, 4 different players in the past two league games. DC has had 5 goals from 1 player. Over the long run, that is bad. You cannot succeed in this league by depending on a lone wolf player who doesn't play a system but who will take you on his back sometimes. Cuz when he stops scoring, who do you turn to?

Winter's offensive system means we can get contributions from more than just De Rosario.

I think De Ro is a fucking amazing wonderful, INDIVIDUAL. I don't think he's great within a system.
NYRB realized this. Toronto realized this. DC will realize this, with time, if they try to create a proper system. If their goal is just "give it to De Ro" they will never be more than average. RSL, LA, Dallas -- they do not rely on 1 guy to score all their goals.

Every team needs a skill player who can change a game with some creativity whatever their supposed system is. I'd say it's currently one of the things TFC has been missing most but these types hardly grow on trees.

[rocker]

let me put it this way: DC has 5 goals in 2 league games (1 home, 1 road). Who scored those five goals: one guy -- De Rosario.

TFC has 5 goals in 2 league games (2 road games). Who scored those five goals: 3 guys -- Marosevic, Koevermans (Iro, if you think he tapped that ball in), De Guzman.

Which is more sustainable? A system that gets players involved so that you don't depend on one guy, or depending on one great player to take charge and put you on his back?

[rocker]

Every team needs a skill player who can change a game with some creativity whatever their supposed system is. I'd say it's currently one of the things TFC has been missing most but these types hardly grow on trees.

True, but now TFC has more scoring from more players -- that was missing before, when we depended on De Ro for everything. As long as we have a salary cap, we'll probably always have tradeoffs like this. The key is over time to keep the players that work and better spread out the quality of the team across all positions, rather than depending on one guy. That's why I always harp on the "yeah De Ro scored but they didn't win" point.

I actually quite like most of the starting 11 on this team now. Most of them are average or better MLS players, which is something we couldn't always say. And in most games there are now long stretches (usually whole halves) of pretty play that is constructive and useful.

There's one black hole right now, in Iro, and we could use someone in the AM position, but beyond that, I'm not sure we need a revolving door at any other positions now. Needing to improve on 2 of 11 players isn't bad.

[ag futbol]

Which is more sustainable? A system that gets players involved so that you don't depend on one guy, or depending on one great player to take charge and put you on his back?
Until this team produces some offense against a non-doormat team that actually has 11 players on the field and doesn't leak goals at the back I have questions about the sustainability about our suddenly much vaunted offense.

In the end offense-defense has to be a balance. If we are committing too many players forward or playing too many guys who don't track back to help, conceding will be a problem regardless of the quality of our backline.

[flatpicker]

I'm with you Rocker.
I liked DeRo, and still believe he is a great player.
But you can't expect a team to have long-term success with one great player.

As i said already in this thread:
The team that suits up for Toronto right now is better than the one DeRo was traded from.

[PAOK17]

Pretty disappointed we didn't get the win. Honestly, TFC is pretty much 2 CB's away from being pretty competitive. I've seen teams be completely transformed when they actually do get new CB's who are capable of defending. Any time you score 2-3 goals in soccer (especially away) you should be looking at getting 3 points. I don't think we are as far away from being a good team than our results show. With a good CB pairing, these losses will become draws and these draws will become wins.

[Heathen]

let me put it this way: DC has 5 goals in 2 league games (1 home, 1 road). Who scored those five goals: one guy -- De Rosario.

TFC has 5 goals in 2 league games (2 road games). Who scored those five goals: 3 guys -- Marosevic, Koevermans (Iro, if you think he tapped that ball in), De Guzman.

Which is more sustainable? A system that gets players involved so that you don't depend on one guy, or depending on one great player to take charge and put you on his back?

I see the point you're trying to make but DCs situation and ours are totally different. You're looking at one element, who scored the goals, without considering other factors, that DC were a man down so changed their formation, they don't have a DP as opposed to our 3 etc

[AmherstNY_TFC]

At least they're entertaining. Last year, Preki would have gone into a shell for a 0-0 draw after DC had a man sent off.

Iro needs a hug and to be taken out for ice cream.

[Heathen]

I guess we'll find out next Saturday against RSL exactly how much progress has been made

[v00d00daddy]

I guess we'll find out next Saturday against RSL exactly how much progress has been made

It will be a great test.

Here's hoping Frei doesn't put us behind the 8 ball and Iro doesn't gift them two goals.

[PopePouri]

I guess we'll find out next Saturday against RSL exactly how much progress has been made

Yep that is the true test. I have a feeling Winter will start Iro for the same reason he started Kocic in the CCL 2nd leg. Kid had a horrid game, he needs to prove he can bounce back.

[canadian_bhoy]

So... was the substitute DC goalie the worst keeper you've ever seen? Holy shit he was bad.

[Pigfynn]

Yep that is the true test. I have a feeling Winter will start Iro for the same reason he started Kocic in the CCL 2nd leg. Kid had a horrid game, he needs to prove he can bounce back.

..and the fact that he really has no other choice

[Heathen]

It will be a great test.

Here's hoping Frei doesn't put us behind the 8 ball and Iro doesn't gift them two goals.

Regardless of the CCL commitments I firmly believe this is one game where Winter should put out the strongest team possible.

[v00d00daddy]

Regardless of the CCL commitments I firmly believe this is one game where Winter should put out the strongest team possible.

I agree because I'd like to see how our best will do against one of the best in the league

[bertal]

dero wow!

[PopePouri]

..and the fact that he really has no other choice

Well he can use combinations of Viator, Robinson and Henry if he wanted.

[ManUtd4ever]

Until this team produces some offense against a non-doormat team that actually has 11 players on the field and doesn't leak goals at the back I have questions about the sustainability about our suddenly much vaunted offense.

In the end offense-defense has to be a balance. If we are committing too many players forward or playing too many guys who don't track back to help, conceding will be a problem regardless of the quality of our backline.

Fair enough, but let's not trivialize TFC's recent results. The league "doormat" Portland crushed the LA Galaxy a few nights after our impressive comeback against them in their own barn.

[Pachuco]

let me put it this way: DC has 5 goals in 2 league games (1 home, 1 road). Who scored those five goals: one guy -- De Rosario.

TFC has 5 goals in 2 league games (2 road games). Who scored those five goals: 3 guys -- Marosevic, Koevermans (Iro, if you think he tapped that ball in), De Guzman.

Which is more sustainable? A system that gets players involved so that you don't depend on one guy, or depending on one great player to take charge and put you on his back?

If individual players didn't fit into a system Ronaldo would be playing in a pub league. It's not one or the other, every good team needs a player who can grab the game by horns and elevate his team. That doesn't mean the rest of the team can't contribute with a player like that on the field.

Dichio scored most of our goals season 1 and we pretty much depended on him for everything going forward. Does that mean he didn't fit well in any system? Of course not.

DC's isn't intentionally building a team around Dero. He's a piece of the puzzle as he should've been with TFC and as he was with Houston. With Najar and Charlie Davis out who the heck did you expect would be scoring for them?

EDIT: Oh and stop suggesting we got rid of Dero because he didn't fit in our system. We all know that's a bunch of crap. Pretty sure it's well documented the reasons Dero left, and not one single reason has to do with Winter thinking he didn't fit into our system.

[Wooster_TFC]

Go watch the replay of Peri's goal. While everyone is celebrating, DeGuz is sitting cross legged on the bench with his hand on his chin. Not even a smile. Says it all.

That was Borman, not JDG.

[sashavukelich]

^^ Borman didn't play last night.

[v00d00daddy]

That was Borman, not JDG.

Yup. It was Borman. He looked disinterested.

Eck was sitting next to him and he didn't look too thrilled about the goal either. (he had just been subbed off so that might have something to do with the pout)

[boysblue]

i am not sure i see much improvement.

i cannot recall more than one or two instances where we broke down their defence last night. i understand that after going a man down they were content to pack the defence and that made it a bit more difficult, however, with an extra man and all the possession we had, it just seemed that we lacked the creativity and talent to create many really good chances. two goals came from crosses (and a decent goalie with have dealt with both comfortably) and one on a 30 yard strike.

[Beach_Red]

let me put it this way: DC has 5 goals in 2 league games (1 home, 1 road). Who scored those five goals: one guy -- De Rosario.

TFC has 5 goals in 2 league games (2 road games). Who scored those five goals: 3 guys -- Marosevic, Koevermans (Iro, if you think he tapped that ball in), De Guzman.

Which is more sustainable? A system that gets players involved so that you don't depend on one guy, or depending on one great player to take charge and put you on his back?

Do you mean sustainable in MLS? The entire DP rule is based on the idea that a couple of guys making ten times as much money as the rest of the players on the team can carry it.

So, TFC signed Kouvermans and Frings - even after all these trades what would the team look like without those two? DC didn't spend the money on a Klinsmann and then on a couple of DPs so they get DeRo.

It's good to see MLSE spending the money on TFC, but is there really much of a different philosophy at work? But really, who cares as long as it works.

[ag futbol]

From Twitter:

DCUmatchday (http://twitter.com/#%21/DCUmatchday) D.C. United Matchday



Final. #DCU (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23DCU) Reserves 2 - #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TFC) Reserves 1 (Davies 58', Burch 80'; Vukovic 77')

[TFC07]

From Twitter:

DCUmatchday (http://twitter.com/#%21/DCUmatchday) D.C. United Matchday



Final. #DCU (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23DCU) Reserves 2 - #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TFC) Reserves 1 (Davies 58', Burch 80'; Vukovic 77')

Who's Vukovic? Academy player?

[jloome]

Are you sure you didn't mean…"and his team played with 10 men for 80 odd minutes…and didn't win."

Same thing. A point is a point.

[jloome]

I see the point you're trying to make but DCs situation and ours are totally different. You're looking at one element, who scored the goals, without considering other factors, that DC were a man down so changed their formation, they don't have a DP as opposed to our 3 etc

They do have a DP, Branko Boscovic, he's just out for the season with an injury.

[Alonso]

I was looking for a post that sums up what I'm trying to say, and this one is definitely it.

For as long as the level of expectations here remains so low as to say that coming back from a shitty defender gifting two goals is an achievement, we'll never demand more from this team.

Approach this from another angle: if someone told you that three DP-having team, with a brand new defense, allowed THREE GOALS AGAINST A 10-MAN (for 95 min) SIDE, but held on to a draw, is that a commendable performance?

Much of our offence was invisible and the fact that we allowed three opportunities for DC to exploit our defensive weakness is what you should be worried about. This result is a much bigger disappointment than just Iro.

Shouldn't international superstar Torsten Frings be bossing the midfield of an MLS team with a guy down? Shouldn't Ryan Johnston and Danny Koevermans be running circles around a terrified bunker defence protecting a terrified backup keeper? Shouldn't our overhauled backline be shutting down every ball coming in from a team that's attacking more for the sake of keeping the ball out of their half rather than actually trying to score?

But again, you're right and I'm wrong. It just needs more time. Teams are rebuilt in at least a year. Winter is making progress.

Right?


I thought we bossed the game. We were a man up so its to be expected and Ryan gave some game stats that I think support the fact that we bossed the game:

20-12 attempts on goal; 32-9 attempted crosses; 89-73% passing accuracy; 66-33% possesion..

To me, they did what was expected, and Dero and Iro ruined the party.

[Oldtimer]

DC's isn't intentionally building a team around Dero. He's a piece of the puzzle as he should've been with TFC and as he was with Houston. With Najar and Charlie Davis out who the heck did you expect would be scoring for them?


I actually don't see much consistency is building a team at all. It's more like collecting some great individuals.

This DC team is a far cry from the great DC teams that won all those trophies, which had a consistent, attractive latino style.

I don't think this DC team is set to repeat those glory days, at least not in the near future. They are probably destined to be a middling MLS team.

One thing you have to say about Olsen and Onstad: they must know how to handle egos with a couple of big ones on the squad (and I'm thinking especially of Charlie Davies).

[PopePouri]

Who's Vukovic? Academy player?

Stefan Vukovic. Plays no. 9 position for the academy. Also top scorer in the CSL.

[spark]

Who's Vukovic? Academy player?

Yes. If I'm not mistaken he's the leading scorer in the CSL.

[rocker]

I actually don't see much consistency is building a team at all. It's more like collecting some great individuals.

This DC team is a far cry from the great DC teams that won all those trophies, which had a consistent, attractive latino style.

I don't think this DC team is set to repeat those glory days, at least not in the near future. They are probably destined to be a middling MLS team.


You're right. DC United isn't building around a "system". The DC United of 2007 played a system. DC is just like any other average MLS team -- they bring together a bunch of disparate individuals and play what Klinsmann calls the "hectic MLS style."

[TFC07]

Stefan Vukovic. Plays no. 9 position for the academy. Also top scorer in the CSL.


Yes. If I'm not mistaken he's the leading scorer in the CSL.

Thanks.

And wow. A goalscorer we need in the future. So I assume we are going to sign him next season.

[PopePouri]

Thanks.

And wow. A goalscorer we need in the future. So I assume we are going to sign him next season.

Most likely. He's looks big and physical and has a great eye for goal. Great backup for the Koov. Here's his hattrick earlier this season...

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=3099

[CoachGT]

He scored this morning in the reserve game, a 2-1 loss to DC. Great movement in by Cordon to Makebuya, who sent a square cross tapped in by Vukovic. Goals against were a PK and a free kick from 22 yards out. Kosic was pissed at the wall being out of position. Otherwise Kosic played well. The game probably should have been a draw.

[QSIM]

Did they credit Iro with Koevs goal?

Wow, if you watch Avila's post game interview - very Adrian Cann-esque. Kinda looks like him too. :p

[Alonso]

Did they credit Iro with Koevs goal?

Wow, if you watch Avila's post game interview - very Adrian Cann-esque. Kinda looks like him too. :p


I thought the exact same thing, he has similar mannerisms.

They look like brothers.

[markus]

Reserve League: D.C. United 2, Toronto FC 1


SCORING SUMMARY


D.C. United - Charlie Davies 58’ (Penalty)
Toronto F.C. - Steven Vukovic (Keith Makubuya) 77’
D.C. United - Marc Burch 80’

LINEUPS
D.C. United: Joe Willis; Chris Korb (http://www.dcunited.com/player/chris-korb), Ethan White (http://www.dcunited.com/player/ethan-white), Devon McTavish (http://www.dcunited.com/player/devon-mctavish) (Jalen Robinson* 46'), Marc Burch; Brandon Barklage (http://www.dcunited.com/player/brandon-barklage) (Seth C' deBaca* 50'), Stephen King, Conor Shanosky (http://www.dcunited.com/player/conor-shanosky) (Kurt Morsink (http://www.dcunited.com/player/kurt-morsink) 71'), Austin da Luz; Charlie Davies (Andy Najar (http://www.dcunited.com/player/andy-najar) 78'), Blake Brettschneider (http://www.dcunited.com/player/blake-brettschneider)
Unused Substitutes: Steve Cronin (http://www.dcunited.com/player/steve-cronin)
Toronto FC: Milos Kocic; Dasan Robinson, Eddy Viator, Nathan Kelsey (Tyler Pasher 46'), Mikael Yourassowsky; Sergio Camargo (Matt Gold 46'), Nathan Sturgis, Oscar Cordon; Nick Soolsma (Demitrius Omphroy 46'), Stefan Vukovic, Javier Martina (Keith Makubuya 59')
Unused Substitutes: Quillan Roberts

[TFC USA]

Andy Fucking Iro.

I had to see it again. Iro falls over his own fucking feet.

And then the 97th minute wide open header by Ethan White in which the entire backline went to sleep.

This is arguably the worst defense in the history of the club. And it's not like a healthy set of CBs is the solution, we leaked in 4 against Vancouver on day one.

[Yohan]

I wonder if TFC can really afford Iro and his Garcia-esque mistakes every game until he sorts himself out. 4 goals direct result of his screw ups.

I'm sure Iro tries hard, but esp for CCL games, Iro is turning into a liability

[Thomas]

It's amazing what a difference one single goal could make. A 3-3 tie away, and to some, this result is an unmitigated disaster. Even with Iro's very poor performance, a 3-2 or whatever away win for us, would probably have made a lot of happy people here. Some maybe even stating that we have finally turned this team around. My point is we are closer than some think.

[Roogsy]

DeRo scores goals he's selfish. DeRo plays the playmaker role and sets up plays and goals in NY and the same people were declaring his demise. Has anyone seen NY's record since he left? Has anyone seen DCs since he arrived?

Good to know things haven't changed around here. But the slanted info is frustrating to read. He makes every team he plays on better. Theirs and his record shows that. Everything else is just obfuscation.

[Oldtimer]

You're right Roogsy, it's a particular bad Toronto habit to put down past players.

I'm not really thinking much about DeRo, everyone needs to let go. He's gone and he's never coming back. Who cares whether he does the shake and bake, whether he's selfish or not, people need to let it go. That's not our future, it's our past. It's sad how it ended, but let's move on. Let's look for example at the great work the academy is doing.

[Roogsy]

That is how I hope we can all feel eventually but I hold little hope.

At this point I hope he finds what he is looking for on other teams and continues to have a stellar career as an example of what a local Canadian kid can accomplish.

As for TFC I hope next year is a breakout year followed by more success in each subsequent year. I don't ever want to come back to this horrendous shit we've been punished with for 5 seasons. Ever.

[Oldtimer]

Agreed Roogsy, on both points (DeRo and TFC next year).

Actually, I hope DeRo finally gets a crack at playing in Europe for a decent club. I realize it's his dream.

[CoachGT]

I had a little chat with DeRo this morning. Praised him for a masterful game last night, and wished him well with the remainder of his career. He said he was glad to see Toronto fans still representing the club on the road and hopes we will continue to do so.

I do believe that he would have difficulty fitting into most systems that more structured teams play and think that the moves he has experienced will be to his benefit, just as I expect the long term position of Toronto FC will improve over time. DeRo is a leading man and DC is in need of one.

Talking with him today I experienced his true class and devotion to the game. He still thinks highly of the Toronto fans. I hope we think about that during the upcoming World Cup qualifiers.

[Jeff s]

It's amazing what a difference one single goal could make. A 3-3 tie away, and to some, this result is an unmitigated disaster. Even with Iro's very poor performance, a 3-2 or whatever away win for us, would probably have made a lot of happy people here. Some maybe even stating that we have finally turned this team around. My point is we are closer than some think.
I don't about you, even had we won the game, it would've been an embarrassing win.

Whenever you concede a goal with a man up its a concern. When u concede 3 its a REAL concern. On top of that, our goals came from mistakes from a 3rd choice gk. Take away our goals, and we did nothing with the ball. Played to slow, nobody moved.

People keep saying we're improving. But in reality, the best we did was tie a game against a expansion team and beat a Nicaraguan team. Boy, I'm impressed.

[v00d00daddy]

I don't about you, even had we won the game, it would've been an embarrassing win.

Whenever you concede a goal with a man up its a concern. When u concede 3 its a REAL concern. On top of that, our goals came from mistakes from a 3rd choice gk. Take away our goals, and we did nothing with the ball. Played to slow, nobody moved.

People keep saying we're improving. But in reality, the best we did was tie a game against a expansion team and beat a Nicaraguan team. Boy, I'm impressed.

Sorry but Frei looked just as bad on DCs first goal as Cronin did on TFCs goals.

That is what set the game going down the wrong path.

Then Iro decided to treat the ball like a grenade for the rest of the game.

I don't care if you're up a man...when you have players making mistakes if that magnitude it's going to be hard to win.

[Wingback6]

Missed the game but just re-watched the highlights on the team website. I think people have been unfair to Iro... On the 2nd goal ball went through his feet.. .so what... You could tell how much his little tap in meant to him (and Koov) who as others have stated, could be seen talking to him after DeGuz's goal. The penalty was a dive by DeRo for sure... Iro was trying to get around him... but backed off... DeRo actually ran back INTO Iro trying to get to the ball and then it seems their feet got tangled and he clipped Dero's heel.. but accidental.. experienced officials. might not have given a penalty... He should feel redeemed.. not many defenders are able to answer an error by scoring a goal.. even if it's a little nudge in. Judging by what others said the team was probably tired... and that makes a difference. Could have been better... oh well.. thread propably locked after this. ps winners don't whine

[TFC USA]

That's bullshit.

The 2nd goal is a fucking school boy error on a pedestrian cross. Whack that shit away. You learn that at an age prior to your balls dropping. Frings should've covered Dero a little better but Iro is just shit on that play. Utter shit.

Iro tripped over his own feet and ran into Dero and even beforehand was a part of that clusterfuck of a chance DC had in the first place.

This is the worst defense the club has ever had and it is concerning that no matter the staff we manage to find these inept guys playing in defense for us.

New York gets Tim Ream, we draft Julius Fucking James. Says it all.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

outside of Iros poor game (im not ready to string him up yet) thought we played decently and continue to show promise. definitely should have finished the game earlier on and i think thatll come, still only the 4th game of these guys playing together.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

also think we need to start shooting from farther away, too much trying to walk the ball into the net in the first half

[Whoop]

Did they credit Iro with Koevs goal?

Wow, if you watch Avila's post game interview - very Adrian Cann-esque. Kinda looks like him too. :p

Yeah, they gave the goal to Iro and gave Koevermans the assist.


also think we need to start shooting from farther away, too much trying to walk the ball into the net in the first half

I was saying this to the friends I was watching the match with as soon as Cronin came in. You could tell he was shaky and they didn't test him until the 2nd half with shots from distance. Who knows maybe TFC could have scored one or two more or could have got a few more corners or a rebound or not. Either way they could have generated more scoring opportunities.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

agreed whole heartedly.
id even go so far as to say thats something we need to do on a regular basis.

[ag futbol]

Agreed.

It also opens up the backline because they can't just bunker back and wait for us to thread a pass through if we are also a threat to shoot from distance.

[TheFallen]

man you guys are hard to pleased. Its been 4 games with all these new guys and we've already shown much improvement since forever. I'm excited with our new found ability to score and Management getting pieces that fit in the system.


BTW: anyone have an assessment on Avila? didn't watch the game.

[Razor]

That's bullshit.

The 2nd goal is a fucking school boy error on a pedestrian cross. Whack that shit away. You learn that at an age prior to your balls dropping. Frings should've covered Dero a little better but Iro is just shit on that play. Utter shit.

Iro tripped over his own feet and ran into Dero and even beforehand was a part of that clusterfuck of a chance DC had in the first place.

This is the worst defense the club has ever had and it is concerning that no matter the staff we manage to find these inept guys playing in defense for us.

New York gets Tim Ream, we draft Julius Fucking James. Says it all.


Chill the fuck out man. You keep saying the same shit over and over again.

We get it. You are pissed off - go have a pint and take a deep breath. It's not the end of the world.

This team is still a work in progress and the sooner you accept it, the less we will have to read your mumble jumble.

This board is ridiculous sometimes. :picard:

[TFC USA]

I've been just as patient as everyone else on this board. I'm HAPPY we have an offense, I'm HAPPY we're scoring more, I'm amazed that after 5 years we're easily one of the worst teams in MLS while Seattle and Philadelphia are having no troubles at all.

Hell, Portland can probably be good in the near future.

They could do it, why is it so hard for us?

[ensco]

Just because no one else has said it.....

WE"RE UNBEATEN IN OUR PAST FOUR GAMES

:D

(Truth be told, I'm not impressed by that at all, given the actual facts of who we played, but what the hell, season's a lost cause anyway)

[Whoop]

Winless in the last 4 league matches, since the July 15th transfer opening.

Don't look now but Vancouver is 2 points behind TFC with 2 games in hand.

[DangerRed]

Winless in the last 4 league matches, since the July 15th transfer opening.

Don't look now but Vancouver is 2 points behind TFC with 2 games in hand.

What's important, someone other than me will soon surely tell you, is that progress is being made. You're asking for results too soon, Whoop.

Also - we're on track to have the worst year since inception.

[Jack]

This board is ridiculous sometimes. :picard:

You know what's ridiculous?

When someone makes a statement like this about the board, generalizing the comment of one person and applying it to all of the users here, of which there are several hundred regular contributors. Those several hundred contributors often have vastly differing opinions and deliver those opinions with passion. Sometimes they offend, sometimes they agree, sometimes they disagree.

I see these comments far too frequently these days and I'm getting tired of it.

We are all here as people who are passionate about Toronto FC and we have the privilege to share this message board which is graciously supplied by the Red Patch Boys at considerable expense, both financially and in terms of effort to keep it running.

So if the board is not to your taste, feel free use another board that is less ridiculous. Conversely, you could stick around and have a bit of respect for your fellow posters as well as the message board itself and those who provide it for you.

[jloome]

That's bullshit.

The 2nd goal is a fucking school boy error on a pedestrian cross. Whack that shit away. You learn that at an age prior to your balls dropping. Frings should've covered Dero a little better but Iro is just shit on that play. Utter shit.

Iro tripped over his own feet and ran into Dero and even beforehand was a part of that clusterfuck of a chance DC had in the first place.

This is the worst defense the club has ever had and it is concerning that no matter the staff we manage to find these inept guys playing in defense for us.

New York gets Tim Ream, we draft Julius Fucking James. Says it all.

If you go back and look at the replay on the penalty, Iro actually had position. He didn't hall his guy down at all, he had his arm IN FRONT of the guy, which made it look like he was hauling him down. It'll get called 9/10 times when you put your arm out like that, but he didn't actually haul him down.

[jloome]

DeRo scores goals he's selfish. DeRo plays the playmaker role and sets up plays and goals in NY and the same people were declaring his demise. Has anyone seen NY's record since he left? Has anyone seen DCs since he arrived?

Good to know things haven't changed around here. But the slanted info is frustrating to read. He makes every team he plays on better. Theirs and his record shows that. Everything else is just obfuscation.

Unless people simply disagree that he makes every team better, in which case it's not obfuscation, they just disagree with you. Apparently, so did New York.

Someone can contribute all sorts of positive elements, but if at the end of the day, they shit in the pool, no one's going to invite them over to swim.

[Carts]

If you go back and look at the replay on the penalty, Iro actually had position. He didn't hall his guy down at all, he had his arm IN FRONT of the guy, which made it look like he was hauling him down. It'll get called 9/10 times when you put your arm out like that, but he didn't actually haul him down.

I think we all new a makeup call was coming...

After the ref made that massive blunder on the DC sub that led to a TFC goal - a United player could have fallen down in the box, with nobody near him and a penalty would be awarded...

[jloome]

I think we all new a makeup call was coming...

After the ref made that massive blunder on the DC sub that led to a TFC goal - a United player could have fallen down in the box, with nobody near him and a penalty would be awarded...

I just slowed it down frame-by-frame. Iro and Dero are even on the ball, shoulder to shoulder, Iro puts an arm in front of DeRo to block him off the ball. DeRo takes a half step in front of Iro, and Iro clips his heel.

Now, notably, the ball had already rebounded PAST deRo a split seocnd before his heels were clipped, so it couldn't actually have interfered with a goal.

Anyway, moot now, as you have to play it frame-by-frame to catch what's really going on, and all the ref coudl see was Iro clip DeRo's heels.

[PopePouri]

Winless in the last 4 league matches, since the July 15th transfer opening.

Don't look now but Vancouver is 2 points behind TFC with 2 games in hand.

Which will be 2 points they probably won't get. Good for them, they beat the Fire.

[Razor]

I just call it as I see it Jack.

Sorry if it ruffles your knickers but whatever.

[TFCin110]

DeRo gave it to TFC with no lube. Whatever people think of his character, the guy stands up to be counted when called upon...and that's the kind of player I want on my team.

[Whoop]

I just slowed it down frame-by-frame. Iro and Dero are even on the ball, shoulder to shoulder, Iro puts an arm in front of DeRo to block him off the ball. DeRo takes a half step in front of Iro, and Iro clips his heel.

Now, notably, the ball had already rebounded PAST deRo a split seocnd before his heels were clipped, so it couldn't actually have interfered with a goal.

Anyway, moot now, as you have to play it frame-by-frame to catch what's really going on, and all the ref coudl see was Iro clip DeRo's heels.

Wasn't it da Luz that went down in the box?

[Jack]

I just call it as I see it Jack.

Sorry if it ruffles your knickers but whatever.

It's not just you, dude, it's that I've seen several similar posts like that.

We need to remember why we're here, and it isn't to bitch at each other and call each other out. Shit, if I called out everyone on this board who had an opinion different than mine, I'd ban you all (muhaha).

Then I'd make a bunch of sock puppet accounts and just talk to myself :drinking:

[123 elite]

Dero showed what he is made of. All the 'he's not going to score, Frings will break his legs' crowd really have nothing to say. 2/12 now for the new look TFC since mid July. A GD of -22. Double the next team and effectively bottom overall factoring in games in hand. Yet this is improvement. 2-0 down to and expansion team and 3-3 against 10 men with our useless ex 'he signed and invisible cheque lets hang him from the nearest tree' striker scoring a hatrick on us. Yes we have improved. No wonder Toronto sports teams suck if this is accepted as improvment.

If TFC with Dero were worse than TFC now without him as i have seen argued on here have you ever stopped to consider what we would be like now with him?

[habstfc]

Holy Shit some things are for sure, you know like death, taxes and the same old whiners bitching at every game. A point on the road is an accomplishment. I didn't see the game I was away cottaging but from what I gather from the game in six and other posters comments it was probably deserved for both teams considering the major blunders made on both sides.

Wow what a goal by deguzman and yet the hater's don't give him his dues on that cracker, I know a 17 year old rep goalie probably would have had that but it was still great nonetheless. If Alonso in seattle or Marquez in new york scored that some of the haters would have given them goal of the year.

[TFC USA]

It's a good goal by JDG I'll give him that.

Even a blind squirrel can shoot on target every once in a while.

[reggie]

i love dero..but people are talkin like he was the second coming of god last night.1st goal, frei gotta save that,i think its time to give frei a break he looks shell shocked,second a gift from iro and the 3rd a cheap pk.

[habstfc]

i love dero..but people are talkin like he was the second coming of god last night.1st goal, frei gotta save that,i think its time to give frei a break he looks shell shocked,second a gift from iro and the 3rd a cheap pk.

I like dero too but why do certain people bring the guy up like he has a halo over his head, the guy wanted to be traded and the rest is history. I wish him nothing but the best but those 3 last night were a little cheap. The first was a good shot but frei got quite a bit of the ball and should have made that save especially. With the defense getting solved eventually I am looking forward to next year.

[reggie]

Winless in the last 4 league matches, since the July 15th transfer opening.

Don't look now but Vancouver is 2 points behind TFC with 2 games in hand.
i dont care if we finish last...we get a higher draft pick,maybe we can draft a big CB like let me see hmmm omar gonzales....MO YOU FUCKER.

[J .]

I really wasnt too impressed with DeRos goals, as a poster above said, Frei should have saved, Iro gifted and a weak pk call got him his due. I simply dont like MeRo and too often at TFC it was more MeRo than DeRo. Quality MLS player, can't cheer for the guy.

There also is a lot of blame being placed on Iro, but when you watch the match, he is stuck 1v1 with one of the best players in MLS of all time. A tough assignment for almost any defender in MLS. That part of his game has gotten lost in his giant screwed ups. There is potential for him, but unfortunately when he messes up, he really shits the bed.

Aside from the personnel gaffes, truly why Winter continues to allow his backline to be exposed by pushing his backs up is a tactical error we see each match. Is it not evident to him now? In MLS the defenders are not good enough to only have two sitting back. I get once in awhile, but every match this comes back to haunt us.

It was a good game in a way from TFC, but at the same time it was more of the same old.

[Shakes McQueen]

I wasn't "impressed" with his goals in a technical sense, as our central defenders (one in particular) practically handed them to him on a silver platter. But who cares? He scored three goals against us, and if that was any TFC player, we'd be singing their praises right now, not breaking down why they weren't impressive (well, perhaps a few would, but really... fuck those people).

A hat trick is always an accomplishment. As is a hat trick with only ten men.

I'd sooner take closer evaluation of our team, than try and tear down DeRo's good game, and I say that as someone who was fine with the team trading him.

- Scott

[Whoop]

No TFC player has scored a hat trick yet in a league game.

Who will be the first to do it?

[Shakes McQueen]

No TFC player has scored a hat trick yet in a league game.

Who will be the first to do it?

Outside of some future player we don't have yet, I could see Koevermans doing it on a good day.

Just seems like one of those players who would maximize his chances, if we really took it to a team.

- Scott

[kcisoul]

10 men dc squad, Frei should have had first goal, and atleast in his career save a fuckin Penalty for fucks sakes, IRO sucks period, I'm done with THIS MLSE BULLSHIT.

I will be arranging a huge street party with leafs, rapters, marlies and tfc fans when MLSE finally sells the shares. It will be a bigger party then if the leafs ever win the stanley cup


fuck u MLSE

WOW how could you even bring up Frei's name about that penalty? Most times keepers dont have a chance on saving a penalty. Think before you post that garbage Frei is the reason this team stays in a lot of games.

[Shakes McQueen]

WOW how could you even bring up Frei's name about that penalty? Most times keepers dont have a chance on saving a penalty. Think before you post that garbage Frei is the reason this team stays in a lot of games.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that a keeper has a dismal save rate against penalties in general, but I agree that putting any individual penalty kick goal on the keeper is daft.

- Scott

[Derko]

DeRo gave it to TFC with no lube. Whatever people think of his character, the guy stands up to be counted when called upon...and that's the kind of player I want on my team.

Somewhat agree, but not when called upon, when DeRo wants to make a difference, in my opinion.

[Brooker]

At this point I hope he finds what he is looking for on other teams

more money?

DeRo aside.... Before I ask this I just wanna say, I'm not throwing Frei under the bus at all. He is a fantastic keeper and I feel so bad for him sometimes that he has to play for us.... but when was the last time any keeper on our team saved a PK? I honestly don't recall.

[MarkoftheDrink]

more money?

DeRo aside.... Before I ask this I just wanna say, I'm not throwing Frei under the bus at all. He is a fantastic keeper and I feel so bad for him sometimes that he has to play for us.... but when was the last time any keeper on our team saved a PK? I honestly don't recall.

Afaik

z5YvsxibBKY

Goto 0:40

I think Sutton had another one for NYRB earlier this season too. Had one for us in Charleston too.

8QOxfG5n1QM

[J .]

I wasn't "impressed" with his goals in a technical sense, as our central defenders (one in particular) practically handed them to him on a silver platter. But who cares? He scored three goals against us, and if that was any TFC player, we'd be singing their praises right now, not breaking down why they weren't impressive (well, perhaps a few would, but really... fuck those people).

A hat trick is always an accomplishment. As is a hat trick with only ten men.

I'd sooner take closer evaluation of our team, than try and tear down DeRo's good game, and I say that as someone who was fine with the team trading him.

- Scott


Of course its a 3 goal match, and like I said, he is a talented MLS player that I dont care to root for anymore so I think we are in agreement in the technical side of things. Its evident he made good fortune of his chances, but when you look at the rest of the match, it wasnt a legendary effort like most hattricks are.

In being honest, with myself, I recognize Im splitting hairs.

If Iro didnt gaffe so bad and it seems from Winter, to Iro to everyone, believes it was basically Iro who was the culprit for 2/3 goals gifted to DeRo.

I guess Im just saying, the evaluation of our team is that Iro caused the goals, Winters tactics left him alone far too often with a perennial MLS Allstar and for a three goal effort, it was not a very impressive three goal effort.

Now if he had gotten that fourth goal in extra time....:o

[Heathen]

Holy Shit some things are for sure, you know like death, taxes and the same old whiners bitching at every game. A point on the road is an accomplishment. I didn't see the game I was away cottaging but from what I gather from the game in six and other posters comments it was probably deserved for both teams considering the major blunders made on both sides.

Wow what a goal by deguzman and yet the hater's don't give him his dues on that cracker, I know a 17 year old rep goalie probably would have had that but it was still great nonetheless. If Alonso in seattle or Marquez in new york scored that some of the haters would have given them goal of the year.

You did notice the DC keeper being sent off in the 9th minute and them being a man down for the rest of the game?

[Derko]

Should have been a 3-2 win, but Iro the Pylon has been terrible since he arrived, not only has been slow and out of shape, but keeps trying to lay blame on his new team mates.

[Brooker]

Afaik

Goto 0:40

I think Sutton had another one for NYRB earlier this season too. Had one for us in Charleston too.



Thanks man. No wonder I didn't remember. :o

[rocker]

Forget the penalty... but I still think Frei normally would have stopped that first one.
He's a great keeper but that was a bit weak in my opinion.

[Boondaddy]

Iro's fuck up right after we took the lead was a rusty dagger to the heart....NEVER have I been more annoyed. The whole team was on a come-back but NOOOOOOOOO, Iro had different plans for the evening.

If we pulled him out and played 10 men voluntarily, we would've got the three points....just sayin.

[Boondaddy]

Should have been a 3-2 win, but Iro the Pylon has been terrible since he arrived, not only has been slow and out of shape, but keeps trying to lay blame on his new team mates.

I actually saw him trip on the ball under NO pressure...

[cherono]

He was broken after that penalty. He was having a shocker as it was, but when our third goal went in, Koevs was all over Iro - smiling and talking to him, presumably trying to get some confidence in him after his involvement in the goal. Two minutes later though, after conceding the pen, Iro was just done. Head down, didn't want the ball anywhere near him.

[Carts]

He was broken after that penalty. He was having a shocker as it was, but when our third goal went in, Koevs was all over Iro - smiling and talking to him, presumably trying to get some confidence in him after his involvement in the goal. Two minutes later though, after conceding the pen, Iro was just done. Head down, didn't want the ball anywhere near him.

That's the worst when that happens...

I mean, when I get like that in Men's League I feel bad enough - let alone it happening to a guy in a professional match...

Nice to see Koevermans trying to pick him up and be a team-leader type of guy - but I don't think anything was going to bring back Iro's confidence out there on Saturday night...

[MKR]

what can you say other than this team truly finds new and creative ways to crush your spirits. forget 'All for one'. It should be the team moto.

Even when all the signs point to a victory, you know you will be dissapointed in the end.

[ryan]

I actually saw him trip on the ball under NO pressure...

I once saw Stefan Frei flub a goal kick straight at a attacking player giving a clear breakway....

[ensco]

Iro: I hated the trade, said so the second it happened, but I don't get this.

Like it or lump it, we've committed to the guy now. We spent very significant asset to get him.

He needs to be out there Saturday, with the full support of us.

[jloome]

Iro: I hated the trade, said so the second it happened, but I don't get this.

Like it or lump it, we've committed to the guy now. We spent very significant asset to get him.

He needs to be out there Saturday, with the full support of us.

Agreed. Not much point hating on the dude, as he's hear for at least the rest of this season, and he was the Crew's player of the year in 2009, so hopefully he can regain that form, even with a shakier central partnership. Robinson is faster (and can play wide as well), so maybe once he's fit they'll partner them.

[ManUtd4ever]

Iro: I hated the trade, said so the second it happened, but I don't get this.

Like it or lump it, we've committed to the guy now. We spent very significant asset to get him.

He needs to be out there Saturday, with the full support of us.

Agreed, although in the long term, Iro might benefit more from a night off than he would from being thrown right back into the fire against an offensive powerhouse like RSL. Another terrible outing would be devastating for him. I think he should be given a chance to regain his confidence the following week against a weaker side like Chicago.

[habstfc]

You did notice the DC keeper being sent off in the 9th minute and them being a man down for the rest of the game?

Ya and I also saw our keeper let in a goal that 99% of the time he saves along with every other keeper at this level, and I also saw one of our defensemen whiff at the balll leading to another goal and I also saw a somewhat questionable pK given against us again yet again.
I also acknowledged that the result was somewhat fair given the blunders by both teams.

[Pachuco]

Ya and I also saw our keeper let in a goal that 99% of the time he saves along with every other keeper at this level, and I also saw one of our defensemen whiff at the balll leading to another goal and I also saw a somewhat questionable pK given against us again yet again.
I also acknowledged that the result was somewhat fair given the blunders by both teams.

For someone who didn't watch the game, you sure do have some strong opinions about this game. I personally would rather discuss the game with people who actually watched it.

[Heathen]

Ya and I also saw our keeper let in a goal that 99% of the time he saves along with every other keeper at this level, and I also saw one of our defensemen whiff at the balll leading to another goal and I also saw a somewhat questionable pK given against us again yet again.
I also acknowledged that the result was somewhat fair given the blunders by both teams.

You may also want to acknowledge we were a man up for 90+ minutes

[trane]

Agreed. Not much point hating on the dude, as he's hear for at least the rest of this season, and he was the Crew's player of the year in 2009, so hopefully he can regain that form, even with a shakier central partnership. Robinson is faster (and can play wide as well), so maybe once he's fit they'll partner them.

Iro had a horrible game, and has not been good since comming over. BUT he has shown me flashes of understanding what he is doing. He has all the physical attributes of a good CB, and the tools, his touch just seems to be way off. Which makes no sense for a professional, but there it is.

[habstfc]

For someone who didn't watch the game, you sure do have some strong opinions about this game. I personally would rather discuss the game with people who actually watched it.

Like I said I watched the game in six and read what the general concensus was from posters on here. Is my post not a fair recap of what happened in the game?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Iro had a horrible game, and has not been good since comming over. BUT he has shown me flashes of understanding what he is doing. He has all the physical attributes of a good CB, and the tools, his touch just seems to be way off. Which makes no sense for a professional, but there it is.

i know exactly what you mean, i suspect its a combination of his ego taking a battering and a serious lack of playing time, i do think he will get better but fact is his contract is up at the end of the season and i dunno if he'll fit in by then adn whether we will keep him around

[ag futbol]

Highlights from the reserve game are here:

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2011/08/reserve-league-dc-united-2-toronto-fc-1

That last goal is totally a WTF?

[flatpicker]

Highlights from the reserve game are here:

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2011/08/reserve-league-dc-united-2-toronto-fc-1

That last goal is totally a WTF?

The Toronto goal was kinda nice.

[v00d00daddy]

Highlights from the reserve game are here:

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2011/08/reserve-league-dc-united-2-toronto-fc-1

That last goal is totally a WTF?


It sure is. I'm not sure who that #13 is in the wall but if I were the keeper he'd be hearing from me after the game. That's shameful and cowardly.

That being said...the keeper has to take more control of his wall there.

[ryan]

Highlights from the reserve game are here:

http://www.dcunited.com/news/2011/08/reserve-league-dc-united-2-toronto-fc-1

That last goal is totally a WTF?

Indeed.

TFC's goal was nice though.

[ryan]

It sure is. I'm not sure who that #13 is in the wall but if I were the keeper he'd be hearing from me after the game. That's shameful and cowardly.

That being said...the keeper has to take more control of his wall there.

Makyuba or however you spell it.

[Wingback6]

Agreed, although in the long term, Iro might benefit more from a night off than he would from being thrown right back into the fire against an offensive powerhouse like RSL. Another terrible outing would be devastating for him. I think he should be given a chance to regain his confidence the following week against a weaker side like Chicago.

I disagree. Winter put Kocic back in after a mistake that could have nearly cost us advancement in the CCL. And Kocic played solid. Put Iro in, show players you believe in them, and they will believe in themselves. Also... something nobody points out... part of our shakiness at the back is because of Frei. He is great at reaction saves, but bad at managing the game, too often he gets scored on because he doesn't come for the ball enough... I mean when you are the only guy in box who can use your hands, if your first instinct isn't to take the ball out of the air, there is a problem... no I'm gonna roast for it just saying... would like to see more of Kocic.

[habstfc]

I disagree. Winter put Kocic back in after a mistake that could have nearly cost us advancement in the CCL. And Kocic played solid. Put Iro in, show players you believe in them, and they will believe in themselves. Also... something nobody points out... part of our shakiness at the back is because of Frei. He is great at reaction saves, but bad at managing the game, too often he gets scored on because he doesn't come for the ball enough... I mean when you are the only guy in box who can use your hands, if your first instinct isn't to take the ball out of the air, there is a problem... no I'm gonna roast for it just saying... would like to see more of Kocic.

Total agreement.

[Cashcleaner]

I like dero too but why do certain people bring the guy up like he has a halo over his head,

Because he is by far the most prolific goal scorer this team ever had. And when he wasn't scoring himself, he was usually assisting or supporting the attack in some capacity.


the guy wanted to be traded and the rest is history.Actually, he only wanted traded after months of trying to negotiate with the club to get some more money from them.


I wish him nothing but the best but those 3 last night were a little cheap. The first was a good shot but frei got quite a bit of the ball and should have made that save especially. With the defense getting solved eventually I am looking forward to next year.A goal is a goal. I agree that a penalty kick is almost guaranteed to reach the back of the net, but it's kinda of hard to argue that DeRo didn't have a great game on Saturday and totally picked our defence apart.

For sure, if we have had a more competent back line things might be different but speculation on this level will get us nowhere. The one good thing we can take from the match is that we can score three times against DC on the road - ie: offence is not a problem.

Sorry, didn't want to go off on a DeRo tangent, but your first two remarks needed clarified.

[jloome]

Because he is by far the most prolific goal scorer this team ever had. And when he wasn't scoring himself, he was usually assisting or supporting the attack in some capacity.

Actually, he only wanted traded after months of trying to negotiate with the club to get some more money from them.

A goal is a goal. I agree that a penalty kick is almost guaranteed to reach the back of the net, but it's kinda of hard to argue that DeRo didn't have a great game on Saturday and totally picked our defence apart.

For sure, if we have had a more competent back line things might be different but speculation on this level will get us nowhere. The one good thing we can take from the match is that we can score three times against DC on the road - ie: offence is not a problem.

Sorry, didn't want to go off on a DeRo tangent, but your first two remarks needed clarified.

Actually, he didn't assist that often. I believe he only had three last year, despite playing in the midfield most games.

And he had already been given a $100,000 contract raise when he first moved here, plus a bump in year two.

And It's not hard at all to argue against him picking our team apart. The first goal was from 25 yards, so that was the defense not closing down a shot. The second was a definitely "pick apart", if you mean the gap between Andy Iro's legs. The third was a penalty.

Saying he picked us apart implies a game long domination, and statiscally we dominated them; their goals came off bad defending, not DeRo's creativity.

Great goal scorer, though, for sure.

[ManUtd4ever]

I disagree. Winter put Kocic back in after a mistake that could have nearly cost us advancement in the CCL. And Kocic played solid. Put Iro in, show players you believe in them, and they will believe in themselves. Also... something nobody points out... part of our shakiness at the back is because of Frei. He is great at reaction saves, but bad at managing the game, too often he gets scored on because he doesn't come for the ball enough... I mean when you are the only guy in box who can use your hands, if your first instinct isn't to take the ball out of the air, there is a problem... no I'm gonna roast for it just saying... would like to see more of Kocic.

I totally understand this sentiment, and normally I would be in complete agreement. Iro's situation is not necessarily analagous to Kocic though. Iro has had several poor outings in a row, and he has been directly responsible for 4-5 goals against in that span.

At times, players can regain their focus following a stretch of poor form if they watch a game or two from the sidelines. I also think it's unecessary to rush him back into a starting job if he's not ready yet, considering there are two untested CB's in Robinson and Viator on the bench.

[Parkdale]

is this thread still happening?

side note: I saw Ecks, Plata and some unknown small guy in the park today. They looked happy and peppy, like young men in love with the city they find themselves in. Let's hope it stays that way.

[Pachuco]

Actually, he didn't assist that often. I believe he only had three last year, despite playing in the midfield most games.

And he had already been given a $100,000 contract raise when he first moved here, plus a bump in year two.

And It's not hard at all to argue against him picking our team apart. The first goal was from 25 yards, so that was the defense not closing down a shot. The second was a definitely "pick apart", if you mean the gap between Andy Iro's legs. The third was a penalty.

Saying he picked us apart implies a game long domination, and statiscally we dominated them; their goals came off bad defending, not DeRo's creativity.

Great goal scorer, though, for sure.

DId he not lead the team in asists both years he was here? Pretty sure he did. Not sure what else you could do. Pretty hard to lead the league in assists when the players around you don't know how to take two steps with the ball.

Also, I do think he picked the team apart, you can't just look at the goals and he he scored them. Anytime he got the ball he basically had a field day with the defense, they didn't always results in goals. But that's not a requirement to make the statement that he picked apart the defense. I would even say he picked apart Frings himself.

[jvanpeebles]

Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

What do you guys think?

i would do this in a heart beat!!!!!

[brad]

DId he not lead the team in asists both years he was here? Pretty sure he did. Not sure what else you could do. Pretty hard to lead the league in assists when the players around you don't know how to take two steps with the ball.

Last year Labrocca led with assists followed by Gargan, White then DeRo. Year before Guevera and DeRo were tied for first.

[Auzzy]

is this thread still happening?

side note: I saw Ecks, Plata and some unknown small guy in the park today. They looked happy and peppy, like young men in love with the city they find themselves in. Let's hope it stays that way.

That's funny. I wonder what language they were speaking? Perhaps the unknown small guy was translating. I mean, I can barely understand Ecks sometimes... :D

[Suds]

Weill I finally got to see the game. Can't saying anything else that has not been said about Iro. That was appalling play at any professional level.

DeRo was DeRo. Took every chance giving to him.

As disappointing as it was to drop two points in that game the team is getting better. Nowhere near as quick as we would like; but it is better.

[Cashcleaner]

Actually, he didn't assist that often. I believe he only had three last year, despite playing in the midfield most games.

Which is why I specifically mentioned that he either scored himself, assisted, or had some hand in the attack. Not that he necessarily had a lot of assists.


And he had already been given a $100,000 contract raise when he first moved here, plus a bump in year two. No argument here. The real debate is whether or not he deserved more or less.


And It's not hard at all to argue against him picking our team apart. The first goal was from 25 yards, so that was the defense not closing down a shot. The second was a definitely "pick apart", if you mean the gap between Andy Iro's legs. The third was a penalty.

Saying he picked us apart implies a game long domination, and statiscally we dominated them; their goals came off bad defending, not DeRo's creativity.

Great goal scorer, though, for sure.Great points, but a mistake on the part of a defender doesn't mean much if it isn't exploited by an opposing player. That's sorta what I was getting at. It's not right just to chalk things up exclusively to bad moves on the part of the defence. You gotta give credit to the person who spots the weakness and takes advantage.

[jloome]

Which is why I specifically mentioned that he either scored himself, assisted, or had some hand in the attack. Not that he necessarily had a lot of assists.

No argument here. The real debate is whether or not he deserved more or less.

Great points, but a mistake on the part of a defender doesn't mean much if it isn't exploited by an opposing player. That's sorta what I was getting at. It's not right just to chalk things up exclusively to bad moves on the part of the defence. You gotta give credit to the person who spots the weakness and takes advantage.

Eh, good points. I dunno if the Iro squib/rounding frey and the penalty were monumental stress occurences but he does it pretty consistently.

[Shakes McQueen]

Great points, but a mistake on the part of a defender doesn't mean much if it isn't exploited by an opposing player. That's sorta what I was getting at. It's not right just to chalk things up exclusively to bad moves on the part of the defence. You gotta give credit to the person who spots the weakness and takes advantage.

In fairness, it wasn't really a case of a DC player spotting a weakness and taking advantage. It was a case of a player kicking a ball directly in the path of Andy Iro, and Iro letting it go directly through his legs.

If the DC player spotted any weakness, my guess is it went something like this:

"Hey, is that Andy Iro on the field for Toronto?"

WEAKNESS SPOTTED. :D

I kid, of course. And I hope the guy can have a good bounce-back game. He's had a rough go for Toronto so far.

- Scott

[habstfc]

Actually, he only wanted traded after months of trying to negotiate with the club to get some more money from them.

A goal is a goal. I agree that a penalty kick is almost guaranteed to reach the back of the net, but it's kinda of hard to argue that DeRo didn't have a great game on Saturday and totally picked our defence apart.



Sorry, didn't want to go off on a DeRo tangent, but your first two remarks needed clarified.

It did come down to him wanting to be traded regardless of the reason. I thought if anyone in the league deserved to get the DP tag, it was him, but the club decided not to give it to him, they had every right to decline his request.

He did have a great game, he was given 3 gifts on a silver platter ( the first much less so than the last two) and he finished them, that's what good goal scorers do. I wouldn't necessarily say he picked our defense apart.

[TFC USA]

If Dero did that and he played with us under no controversy we'd have called him Jesus by now.

The only reason why Dero isn't getting applauded is because he's not with us and left the club on bad terms.

Move on, he's really good, better than most of our players, but it's over.

[Fort York Redcoat]

i would do this in a heart beat!!!!!


Does anyone know Dero's contact status for next season? Terminate De Guzman's contract and give De Ro DP money. I doubt this will happen, but I wish it could.

What do you guys think?

That would be a shocking turn. To imagine DeGuzman leaving his contract before the end of the year would be a surprise. To see the present management eat humble pie after a full meal of crow and re-sign DeRo would see me eat my hat.

I wouldn't want this only because I doubt that the parties involved could put the recent past behind them.

[Cashcleaner]

In fairness, it wasn't really a case of a DC player spotting a weakness and taking advantage. It was a case of a player kicking a ball directly in the path of Andy Iro, and Iro letting it go directly through his legs.

If the DC player spotted any weakness, my guess is it went something like this:

"Hey, is that Andy Iro on the field for Toronto?"

WEAKNESS SPOTTED. :D

I kid, of course. And I hope the guy can have a good bounce-back game. He's had a rough go for Toronto so far.

- Scott

True enough on Iro.

Unfortunately.

[Pachuco]

It did come down to him wanting to be traded regardless of the reason. I thought if anyone in the league deserved to get the DP tag, it was him, but the club decided not to give it to him, they had every right to decline his request.

He did have a great game, he was given 3 gifts on a silver platter ( the first much less so than the last two) and he finished them, that's what good goal scorers do. I wouldn't necessarily say he picked our defense apart.

Oh man, here you go again. You didn't watch the game. How the heck would you know if he picked the defense apart? Sorry but stuff like this drives me nuts. You are obviously very biased in your opinion to the point that you think you can make one having watched some highlights. The question isn't how he scored the goals, it's how he picked apart our defense the entire game.

[Roogsy]

If Dero did that and he played with us under no controversy we'd have called him Jesus by now.

The only reason why Dero isn't getting applauded is because he's not with us and left the club on bad terms.

Move on, he's really good, better than most of our players, but it's over.


This.

And it is is most certaily happening. Marosevic might have potential but we're applauding 2 goals in 2 games that were both the very definition of "flukey". And yet we're already lauding him as a starter.

When it's our player, it's skill. When it's the other team's player (and most definitely when it's DeRo) it's a fluke or a gift.

[DangerRed]

This.

And it is is most certaily happening. Marosevic might have potential but we're applauding 2 goals in 2 games that were both the very definition of "flukey". And yet we're already lauding him as a starter.

When it's our player, it's skill. When it's the other team's player (and most definitely when it's DeRo) it's a fluke or a gift.

And when it's our coach leading the team to its worst season since inception, he's "making progress." But when it's another team's coach, who's winless in 5 but still firmly in the playoffs, he's "sucking."

[v00d00daddy]

Oh man, here you go again. You didn't watch the game. How the heck would you know if he picked the defense apart? Sorry but stuff like this drives me nuts. You are obviously very biased in your opinion to the point that you think you can make one having watched some highlights. The question isn't how he scored the goals, it's how he picked apart our defense the entire game.

Well I watched it. Twice actually...and to suggest that dero picked apart the def is just as out there as commenting on a game you didn't watch.

He scored on the chances given to him. He didn't give anyone fits. On several occasions he lost the ball trying to do too much and he also unleashed a couple of his "I can score from anywhere" 40 yard attempts on goal.

He was far from mediocre but far from dominating too.

[rocker]

This.

And it is is most certaily happening. Marosevic might have potential but we're applauding 2 goals in 2 games that were both the very definition of "flukey". And yet we're already lauding him as a starter.

When it's our player, it's skill. When it's the other team's player (and most definitely when it's DeRo) it's a fluke or a gift.

And if De Ro scores those two goals Marosevic scored, but against TFC, De Ro is a God and we should have kept him ;)

But all De Ro's goals are his effort alone. :)

And when TFC gets a win in the NCC or Champions League, it's because the other team is not as good, not because of coaching or formation or whatever.

[Pachuco]

Well I watched it. Twice actually...and to suggest that dero picked apart the def is just as out there as commenting on a game you didn't watch.

He scored on the chances given to him. He didn't give anyone fits. On several occasions he lost the ball trying to do too much and he also unleashed a couple of his "I can score from anywhere" 40 yard attempts on goal.

He was far from mediocre but far from dominating too.

Well I couldn't disagree more. He was playing as a lone man up front with barely any support while his team had 10 man on the field. He took 9 shots and 5 of those were on net. Beat defenders quite easily and even made Frings look silly a couple of times.

In my opinion, he dismantled our defense all by himself. If that was Plata everyone would be talking about how he destroys defenses

It's not a coincidence that the outspoken one's against Dero leaving are the same one's trying to put down his performance. That's fine, I get it. I'm not terribly excited about JDG's goal from 65 yards out where the goalie dove with his hands behind his back. Other's call it the greatest goal they have ever seen.

But what bothers me is when someone who didn't watch the game is actually trying to contradict someone's opinion of how they saw a player perform throughout the entire game. Because they watched the highlights? give me a break.

[jloome]

You are obviously very biased in your opinion.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you on one issue does not make them "obviously biased."

I have no opinion about DeRosario as a person one way or the other, and know we would be better as a team with him than without him, but I agree with his stance on his performance in this game. I also have sympathy for the team in having to deal with him.

People are capable at looking at issues from more than one angle, you know. We're not all just acting on autonomic, tribal instinct, as this comment implies, and this shit is beneath you.

This board is about debate; if you stifle it with ad hominem attacks upon those ideas, you're doing everyone around you a disservice.

I used to come on here a lot. I post much less frequently now, becuase frankly people often aren't here to discuss football, but to ensure that everyone knows they have contempt for the intelligence of others and, in a few cases, actual contempt for the person.

Maybe we could all just knock it off and be civil.

[Roogsy]

And if De Ro scores those two goals Marosevic scored, but against TFC, De Ro is a God and we should have kept him ;)

But all De Ro's goals are his effort alone. :)

Nobody said that. Instead, what we are seeing is rationalization of DeRo's goals but no acknowledgement that Marosevic's goal came on a silver platter. You can't create a narrative out of thin air, it already exists and that is what we are pointing to.


And when TFC gets a win in the NCC or Champions League, it's because the other team is not as good, not because of coaching or formation or whatever.

Now you're just removing all context altogether. If you honestly believe we beat Real Esteli because of tactics and formations and not because they are basically a semi-pro team with a roster with salaries that are literally a fraction of ours, then carry on.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yes they were a crap team but cmon man, lets be real here, they had a coach who told them waht to do and how to do it

[rocker]

Nobody said that. Instead, what we are seeing is rationalization of DeRo's goals but no acknowledgement that Marosevic's goal came on a silver platter. You can't create a narrative out of thin air, it already exists and that is what we are pointing to.

Now you're just removing all context altogether. If you honestly believe we beat Real Esteli because of tactics and formations and not because they are basically a semi-pro team with a roster with salaries that are literally a fraction of ours, then carry on.

No acknowledgement that Marosevic's goals came on a silver platter? There's a fucking thread with people saying exactly that. I guess some people don't read the whole board......

On the second point -- you obviously didn't get the irony of my example, so I won't explain it further.

[Ageroo]

Well I couldn't disagree more. He was playing as a lone man up front with barely any support while his team had 10 man on the field. He took 9 shots and 5 of those were on net. Beat defenders quite easily and even made Frings look silly a couple of times.

In my opinion, he dismantled our defense all by himself. If that was Plata everyone would be talking about how he destroys defenses

It's not a coincidence that the outspoken one's against Dero leaving are the same one's trying to put down his performance. That's fine, I get it. I'm not terribly excited about JDG's goal from 65 yards out where the goalie dove with his hands behind his back. Other's call it the greatest goal they have ever seen.

But what bothers me is when someone who didn't watch the game is actually trying to contradict someone's opinion of how they saw a player perform throughout the entire game. Because they watched the highlights? give me a break.

Well I am a DeRo supporter from way back and I agree he had a great match....but I don't agree that he picked anything apart. And I watched the entire match. He played well, yes, but pouncing on a ball that was mis-played by a defender is what he should be doing. His move on Frei to get around him wasn't textbook and took skill, but again Frei commited and he reacted and slotted it into the goal. His first goal was a good shot, but by no means was it a stellar DeRo strike....just like JDG's wasn't the be all and end all of goals....and the third was a PK, which Frei never saves anyway.

DeRo had his moments throughout the game, no doubt and did make Frings look silly at times...but he also was defended at times well by TFC. Even Iro(go figure) had some good stops on DeRo. DeRo wasn't dancing around players the way you are making it seem....

I have no bias against DeRo, you can take my observation as you please....but IMHO his performance was a bit overrated...amplified by our poor backline.

[Pachuco]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you on one issue does not make them "obviously biased."

I have no opinion about DeRosario as a person one way or the other, and know we would be better as a team with him than without him, but I agree with his stance on his performance in this game. I also have sympathy for the team in having to deal with him.

People are capable at looking at issues from more than one angle, you know. We're not all just acting on autonomic, tribal instinct, as this comment implies, and this shit is beneath you.

This board is about debate; if you stifle it with ad hominem attacks upon those ideas, you're doing everyone around you a disservice.

I used to come on here a lot. I post much less frequently now, becuase frankly people often aren't here to discuss football, but to ensure that everyone knows they have contempt for the intelligence of others and, in a few cases, actual contempt for the person.

Maybe we could all just knock it off and be civil.

Did you read my post and who I was replying to? You tell me how someone can come on here and challenged someone's point of view on how a player played in this particular game when they didn't watch the game? you tell me how someone can do that without having come to a biased conclusion on their previous feelings on the player? And may I add that person came in here guns blazzing insulting people who had a difference of opinion on a game he didn't even watch.

You are trying to make this argument something that it isn't.

[rocker]

You are trying to make this argument something that it isn't.

That's a fucking hilarious reply to Jloome, considering you've -- time and again -- not even bothered to read the messages I wrote clearly, and then you argue -- time and again -- different points and then make it look like I argued those points.

You always make arguments into something they aren't.

I think it's time we all just called a truce on this thread and moved on.

And I'm now moving Roogsy and Pachuco into my block list (where I moved boban a few months ago). It's not even worth the trouble. So don't even bother replying to my messages, as I won't see your replies.

[ManUtd4ever]

DeRo did what a good sniper should do, and he buried his chances. I also agree that 2 of his 3 goals were gifted to him by Iro. I think that was painfully obvious to those of us that watched the match unfold.

[Carts]

Well I am a DeRo supporter from way back and I agree he had a great match....but I don't agree that he picked anything apart. And I watched the entire match. He played well, yes, but pouncing on a ball that was mis-played by a defender is what he should be doing. His move on Frei to get around him wasn't textbook and took skill, but again Frei commited and he reacted and slotted it into the goal. His first goal was a good shot, but by no means was it a stellar DeRo strike....just like JDG's wasn't the be all and end all of goals....and the third was a PK, which Frei never saves anyway.


I have to disagree...

The funny thing is, everything you mentioned, is kind of 'picking apart' a team...

You don't need to run 1000-miles, take on 100-guys 1-v-1, and hold the ball 60% of the time to pick a team apart...

What you need to do, and make it count when you get the chance...

He had a clean look at goal: he hit it hard enough to beat Frei for 1...

Frei committed on a 1-v-1: he moved to the side enough and slotted in home for 2...

On a PK down by a goal late in the game: he was calm and scored for 3...

I'd rather have that, than a guy making 60-great moves, 15-great runs, and 10-shots at goal - only to score none... That's useless in the end if the ball never ends up in the net...

Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced enough to know "...this keeper has been shit today..." so he hit it hard and true, but MADE SURE to hit the target instead of going for the perfect post-and-in shot that could (most times does) go wide...

Goals win games. If you can exploit 3-moments for 3-goals in a match - you've done a pretty decent job dominating where it counts, the scoreboard...

[Pachuco]

That's a fucking hilarious reply to Jloome, considering you've -- time and again -- not even bothered to read the messages I wrote clearly, and then you argue -- time and again -- different points and then make it look like I argued those points.

You always make arguments into something they aren't.

I think it's time we all just called a truce on this thread and moved on.

And I'm now moving Roogsy and Pachuco into my block list (where I moved boban a few months ago). It's not even worth the trouble. So don't even bother replying to my messages, as I won't see your replies.

Talk about generalization. I could say the exact same thing about you. I'm sorry that you have a hard time having a discussion on a forum with people who disagree with you. I'm fine with it, this board would be useless for me if all I wanted was for people to pat me on the back with every opinion I have.

[TFCRegina]

That would be a shocking turn. To imagine DeGuzman leaving his contract before the end of the year would be a surprise. To see the present management eat humble pie after a full meal of crow and re-sign DeRo would see me eat my hat.

I wouldn't want this only because I doubt that the parties involved could put the recent past behind them.

It's for reasons like this that everyone should buy edible hats.

[Pachuco]

I have to disagree...

The funny thing is, everything you mentioned, is kind of 'picking apart' a team...

You don't need to run 1000-miles, take on 100-guys 1-v-1, and hold the ball 60% of the time to pick a team apart...

What you need to do, and make it count when you get the chance...

He had a clean look at goal: he hit it hard enough to beat Frei for 1...

Frei committed on a 1-v-1: he moved to the side enough and slotted in home for 2...

On a PK down by a goal late in the game: he was calm and scored for 3...

I'd rather have that, than a guy making 60-great moves, 15-great runs, and 10-shots at goal - only to score none... That's useless in the end if the ball never ends up in the net...

Just like JDG. It wasn't a post-and-in shot, but JDG is smart & experienced enough to know "...this keeper has been shit today..." so he hit it hard and true, but MADE SURE to hit the target instead of going for the perfect post-and-in shot that could (most times does) go wide...

Goals win games. If you can exploit 3-moments for 3-goals in a match - you've done a pretty decent job dominating where it counts, the scoreboard...

I'll just add that he actually drew the PK by beating like 3 players. Another time he beat a few players again, found himself 1 on 1 with Frei but missed wide. I call stuff like that picking apart the defense. I'm not sure how many times you have to beat players and how many times you have to score before someone acknowledges you picked their team apart. Especially considering he had no support with his team being a man down.

[Roogsy]

DeRo did what a good sniper should do, and he buried his chances. I also agree that 2 of his 3 goals were gifted to him by Iro. I think that was painfully obvious to those of us that watched the match unfold.

But that is a harsh condition to make on any offensive player considering almost any goal, especially in MLS, comes on the heels of a defensive error!

We don't have Maradona or Messi taking on 10 players, making them look silly and scoring on their own effort. This is MLS. Where poaching goals is where you get results. Where defensive errors are what lead to goals. (It is also why reducing those defensive errors is what makes better teams in MLS rather than trying to outscore the opposition, something Winter has not learned yet.)

Our goals didn't come from "errors"? The difference in this league is a "sniper" as you call it that makes the most of his opportunities. Danny K obviously has brought that quality and I think he will do well. But so has DeRo.

The biggest problem we all had with Barrett was despite receiving those "gifts" time and again, he flubbed them. Nobody was expecting him to be beating players one on one but at least bury the opportunities that are created for you by whatever means, including defensive lapses.

Calling them "gifts" as somehow detracting from the value of the goals is hypocritical considering the few goals even we score come the same way for the most part.

[ag futbol]

I'd rather have that, than a guy making 60-great moves, 15-great runs, and 10-shots at goal - only to score none... That's useless in the end if the ball never ends up in the net...

I think one of the most important functions De Rosario performed in that game was holding the ball up at various times. That's probably the area where being a man down hurts you the most. You win the ball only to be dispossessed quickly due to numbers.

He bobbed and weaved while our defenders mildly chased him around. He sucked in two or three guys and once and in the meantime DC players like Pontius what were defending had time to get up the field in attacking positions. This allowed DC to start the counter attack and ultimately put them in positions to create chances.

I think he's performance last time out had a lot more dimensions to it than a couple of defensive mistakes by TFC. Remember we play in a league where you see mistakes all the time, but they aren't always punished.

[Carts]

I think one of the most important functions De Rosario performed in that game was holding the ball up at various times. That's probably the area where being a man down hurts you the most. You win the ball only to be dispossessed quickly due to numbers.

He bobbed and weaved while our defenders mildly chased him around. He sucked in two or three guys and once and in the meantime DC players like Pontius what were defending had time to get up the field in attacking positions. This allowed DC to start the counter attack and ultimately put them in positions to create chances.

I think he's performance last time out had a lot more dimensions to it than a couple of defensive mistakes by TFC. Remember we play in a league where you see mistakes all the time, but they aren't always punished.

Absolutely 100% spot on...

[Pachuco]

But that is a harsh condition to make on any offensive player considering almost any goal, especially in MLS, comes on the heels of a defensive error!

We don't have Maradona or Messi taking on 10 players, making them look silly and scoring on their own effort. This is MLS. Where poaching goals is where you get results. Where defensive errors are what lead to goals. (It is also why reducing those defensive errors is what makes better teams in MLS rather than trying to outscore the opposition, something Winter has not learned yet.)

Our goals didn't come from "errors"? The difference in this league is a "sniper" as you call it that makes the most of his opportunities. Danny K obviously has brought that quality and I think he will do well. But so has DeRo.

The biggest problem we all had with Barrett was despite receiving those "gifts" time and again, he flubbed them. Nobody was expecting him to be beating players one on one but at least bury the opportunities that are created for you by whatever means, including defensive lapses.

Calling them "gifts" as somehow detracting from the value of the goals is hypocritical considering the few goals even we score come the same way for the most part.

If the definition of picking apart a defense was that you had to beat players more then 5 times in a game then Danny Dichio surely sucked for us. I don't remember Danny beating a single player in his entire career with TFC. He capitalized on space given to him, or beat players to a ball when he scored his goals. That in itself is picking apart the defense. Whether it's the midfield that doesn't track back to defend, or the defenders who don't step up to challenge the shot, in the end, you found a gap in their defense and took advantage of it.

[Pachuco]

I think one of the most important functions De Rosario performed in that game was holding the ball up at various times. That's probably the area where being a man down hurts you the most. You win the ball only to be dispossessed quickly due to numbers.

He bobbed and weaved while our defenders mildly chased him around. He sucked in two or three guys and once and in the meantime DC players like Pontius what were defending had time to get up the field in attacking positions. This allowed DC to start the counter attack and ultimately put them in positions to create chances.

I think he's performance last time out had a lot more dimensions to it than a couple of defensive mistakes by TFC. Remember we play in a league where you see mistakes all the time, but they aren't always punished.

This is the kinda stuff that's missing when you don't watch the game.

[Ageroo]

Goals win games. If you can exploit 3-moments for 3-goals in a match - you've done a pretty decent job dominating where it counts, the scoreboard...

Not saying that he didn't do well in his oppotunities....I just felt IMO...that Pachuco was making his performance sound like it was that of legend (being sarcastic here). Yes goals win games of course, but to me....and this is only me, he did nothing over and above what he was supposed to do....

The miracle in montreal is what I define as picking apart and dominating a game. But again, my opinion and I am a DeRo man......

side note....surprised you called JDG smart. hmmmmmmm :D

[Ageroo]

Again...my opinions. I love DeRo, JDG and anything CMNT...so I have a soft spot for our boys. I just didn't feel like this was a montrous game for DeRo. Yes, 3 goals is monstrous. I just have seen him play better scoring less goals or even none sometimes.

[Carts]

but to me....and this is only me, he did nothing over and above what he was supposed to do....


He supposed to score 3-goals a game...????

Talk about unreal expectations, if 3-goals is what's expected...

I know you're saying "finishing chances" is what he is supposed to do - but bagging 3-goals, when down to 10-men, including a 85+ PK when down a goal - is going far above what any striker is "expected to do" in a match...

Credit where Credit it due - without his performance, TFC would have walked away with a relatively easy 3pts on the road...

[Carts]

Again...my opinions. I love DeRo, JDG and anything CMNT...so I have a soft spot for our boys. I just didn't feel like this was a montrous game for DeRo. Yes, 3 goals is monstrous. I just have seen him play better scoring less goals or even none sometimes.

I hate to say it - but this is problem with alot of our fans...

We love hard working guys, who are on the ball all game, but don't WIN GAMES...

I'd rather have a striker touch the ball 3-times and score 3-times - than run all over the place, have a 99% pass rate, 22-shots on goal, beat 10-guys 1-v-1 and score NOTHING...

[Roogsy]

He supposed to score 3-goals a game...????

Talk about unreal expectations, if 3-goals is what's expected...

I know you're saying "finishing chances" is what he is supposed to do - but bagging 3-goals, when down to 10-men, including a 85+ PK when down a goal - is going far above what any striker is "expected to do" in a match...

Credit where Credit it due - without his performance, TFC would have walked away with a relatively easy 3pts on the road...


Imagine Barrett in DeRo's spot and tell me he bags 3 goals? :D

[ManUtd4ever]

But that is a harsh condition to make on any offensive player considering almost any goal, especially in MLS, comes on the heels of a defensive error!

We don't have Maradona or Messi taking on 10 players, making them look silly and scoring on their own effort. This is MLS. Where poaching goals is where you get results. Where defensive errors are what lead to goals. (It is also why reducing those defensive errors is what makes better teams in MLS rather than trying to outscore the opposition, something Winter has not learned yet.)

Our goals didn't come from "errors"? The difference in this league is a "sniper" as you call it that makes the most of his opportunities. Danny K obviously has brought that quality and I think he will do well. But so has DeRo.

The biggest problem we all had with Barrett was despite receiving those "gifts" time and again, he flubbed them. Nobody was expecting him to be beating players one on one but at least bury the opportunities that are created for you by whatever means, including defensive lapses.

Calling them "gifts" as somehow detracting from the value of the goals is hypocritical considering the few goals even we score come the same way for the most part.

I understand your point, but I'm not trying to detract from his performance on the night. I just think that Iro in particular made his performance loom much larger than it should have, that is all. For example, I thought the 2 goals that DeRo scored the previous week against San Jose were of much greater quality than the goals he scored against TFC.

[Suds]

DeRo scored a hat-trick. Any way you slice it that's a very good game for any footballer on any given day. Gift or no gift, you still have to out the ball in the net.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of how the guy handled some situations. But to diminish what he did as fluke is just a crazy as saying he played on the level of Messi. He had a very good game and did what good pros do. Take their chances and bury them.

[DangerRed]

Again...my opinions. I love DeRo, JDG and anything CMNT...so I have a soft spot for our boys. I just didn't feel like this was a montrous game for DeRo. Yes, 3 goals is monstrous. I just have seen him play better scoring less goals or even none sometimes.

Full disclosure, I'm not a fan of DeRo's and am glad he's gone, but by god, you don't think a hat-trick when the team's down a man for nearly the entire game is "monstrous?" Talk about unrealistic expectations. Even though it was scored against one of the worst teams in the league, it's impressive.

[TFCRegina]

Not saying that he didn't do well in his oppotunities....I just felt IMO...that Pachuco was making his performance sound like it was that of legend (being sarcastic here). Yes goals win games of course, but to me....and this is only me, he did nothing over and above what he was supposed to do....

The miracle in montreal is what I define as picking apart and dominating a game. But again, my opinion and I am a DeRo man......

side note....surprised you called JDG smart. hmmmmmmm :D

Screen cap that shit.

[Pachuco]

I understand your point, but I'm not trying to detract from his performance on the night. I just think that Iro in particular made his performance loom much larger than it should have, that is all. For example, I thought the 2 goals that DeRo scored the previous week against San Jose were of much greater quality than the goals he scored against TFC.

Why are some concentrating so much on how the goals went in? I didn't think that's the only time where Dero was visible in this game. I pretty much felt like if DC had the ball in the opposing end, Dero was causing havoc. How the goals went in doesn't really factor in my assessment of his game.

Also just want to add for the rest that I didn't come on here talking about how incredible Dero is and how he ripped our defense apart first. I was defending his performance from people who didn't watch the game and were commenting on it. Any time you try and wholeheartedly defend a stance things get blown way out of proportion.

[Pookie]

^ he had the game of his season and possibly the best one he will ever have through the remainder of his career.

He was motivated and delivered for his new team. Fluke? Playing against jet lagged opponents? Whatever. He knocked 3 in and his team earned a draw. Pretty good night for him consider all the ill-will that existed between him and ownership.

I'm sure the only way he could script it any better would have been to score the winner too. Not much more to say.

Doesn't change a thing for me though. Very happy to have moved on from this sideshow.

[TFCRegina]

Imagine Barrett in DeRo's spot and tell me he bags 3 goals? :D

If he did, he'd be hailed as the greatest player ever to take the pitch.

Because he's that "hard working guy who shuts his mouth".

[habstfc]

Oh man, here you go again. You didn't watch the game. How the heck would you know if he picked the defense apart? Sorry but stuff like this drives me nuts. You are obviously very biased in your opinion to the point that you think you can make one having watched some highlights. The question isn't how he scored the goals, it's how he picked apart our defense the entire game.

I have watched the entire game since my intial comments smartguy. He did nothing that you have claimed he did. I'm biased, ha that's a laugh. Even my initial comments were very accurate without watching the entire game. Why don't you and the rrest of the haters go start a site, you can call it the RPBW. .RED PATCH BITCHERS AND WHINERS.

[ManUtd4ever]

Why are some concentrating so much on how the goals went in? I didn't think that's the only time where Dero was visible in this game. I pretty much felt like if DC had the ball in the opposing end, Dero was causing havoc. How the goals went in doesn't really factor in my assessment of his game.


I was a DeRo supporter during his tumultuous tenure in Toronto. I have no agenda in evaluating his performance, but based on the way the match progressed, and the litany of errors by Iro, I don't think he should have singlehandedly cost us two points on the night. The disappointing result could have easily been avoided, despite DeRo's presence on the pitch.

[Fort York Redcoat]

If he did, he'd be hailed as the greatest player ever to take the pitch.

Because he's that "hard working guy who shuts his mouth".

Barrett had a few great lines for media. Anything derogatory he said he saved on himself.

DeRo has done and said some things in the media I've loved him for. He could still impress me for Canada.

Man, this nitpicking over how good the performance was is overblown.

[Fort York Redcoat]

and let's leave the critiquing to the game and it's players. Not those that watch it.