Post game: TFC @ Portland

[Yohan]

What a little confidence does for a team...

Good on TFC from drawing after going down 2-0 away from BMO Field. (even if it's against one of the worst teams in MLS)

But a little consistency will go a long way. Hopefully the lads will build on this to get the result on Tues vs Real Esteli, which they should.

[TheFallen]

new kid comes in and scores his first MLS goal on his first MLS debut. Kouverman i don't know how he does it, he's such a stiff but still scores. That first goal really boosted our offense and confidence

[TFC/Everton]

Good come back!

[habstfc]

With all the recent acquisitions this team is really coming together. I think it will be a very good last 10 games.

[SmokedPanda]

we almost won this thing near the end but we stole a point on the road..... things look good heading into the 2nd leg vs RE

[TheFallen]

i gotta say Dunfield made such a great first impression. Solid guy, knows where to pass.

[TFC07]

What a comeback! This team has shown once again that it has a lot of heart and pride. I am loving this new TFC team. Now only if we can win our league games.

[TFC07]

i gotta say Dunfield made such a great first impression. Solid guy, knows where to pass.

Makes you think what the hell were Vancouver thinking of trading him away.

[Yohan]

new kid comes in and scores his first MLS goal on his first MLS debut. Kouverman i don't know how he does it, he's such a stiff but still scores. That first goal really boosted our offense and confidence
like, Koevermans misses the easier chances but puts away the harder ones...

wait until he's completely match fit? though he's got like 4 full games under his belt so he should be pretty close, no?

[Dkolish3]

I don't usually go crazy over a player because of one or two games but hopefully Morgan sees regular minutes at FB

[jabbronies]

Byebye Julian.

Game really changed when he left and Dunfield and Marosevic came in.

[forza_tfc]

i gotta say Dunfield made such a great first impression. Solid guy, knows where to pass.

And JDG continues to fail to impress.

[swan]

What a comeback! This team has shown once again that it has a lot of heart and pride. I am loving this new TFC team. Now only if we can sort out our 2 CB and LB positions.

:D...

[TFC USA]

JDG has to go and we need to not get ahead of ourselves. This is still a very bad team with sub-MLS quality players.

But I'll take the draw and not the usual limpdick surrendering.

[Yohan]

But I'll take the draw and not the usual limpdick surrendering.
+1

the lads fought back for the point, instead of usual surrendering. maybe they finally grew a spine?

[DichioTFC]

Byebye Julian.

Game really changed when he left and Dunfield and Marosevic came in.

I called it at the '61.


http://i54.tinypic.com/2ivy593.png

TFC Highlight of the night.

[ManUtd4ever]

A huge confidence building performance tonight in one of the most initimidating grounds in MLS. I don't think TFC has taken control of a match on the road all season like they did in the second half tonight.

Plata and Eckersley were fantastic yet again, and Marosevic and Dunfield were very solid in their debuts.

I have a good feeling about this group. It will only get better as they get more comfortable with each other.

[DichioTFC]

And JDG continues to fail to impress.

Today's the day that I fully committed to the "hate-JDG bandwagon"

The difference between JDG and Dunfield is partially giveaways (I counted 10 for JDG in the first half, didn't bother counting in the second half, although admittedly he did much better in the second half), but also effort. Dunfield might not have the skill and touch JDG does, but he is far superior in the heart and work effort categories - like a Gargan with more skill.

[DichioTFC]

Please tell me the 4-3-3 is dead. We looked dangerous as hell with the 3-4-3 / 3-1-3-3

[Auzzy]

VERY happy with the result & the fight-back.

We have to remember the horrid display for good parts of the game though, especially the first half. Portland was passing much better, quicker, more incisively than Toronto. TFC mostly watching the ball, both on offence & defense.

Sorry, I thought Morgan was mostly awful, although no worse than other people we've had at LB. Midfield & offence can definitely play better IMO after all the mid-season trades, but the defense hasn't improved.

[rocker]

While they still haven't put together a full 90 minute performance of the kind we would like, I think as the game progressed you could definitely see improvement... and you could definitely see Winter's style coming together with (most) of the right individuals on the field. CB is still a major problem, and JDG was as rusty as an old doornail, but generally I was quite happy with the performance.

It was a clash of styles I thought. Portland started off the first 20 minutes by passing back and forth between defenders until they saw an opening and then they went with longballs (half of which went out of bounds). Meanwhile, TFC had trouble even getting possession. In the middle part of the match, TFC picked up and gained more possession and started to complete a number of passes. Still, space opened up and Portland would run like chickens with heads cut off downfield or shoot the longball. But TFC kept trying to play its game and eventually I thought Portland looked run down and ragged in the latter portion of the game, while TFC looked fresh and creative.

Yeah, Portland's a bad team... but we don't have a better record and this was played after 2 days rest and all the travel that comes with it, on the road, which is a graveyard for TFC.

Portland fans were calling this a "must win" game against a crappy team, they said. Coulda been a win for TFC if that BLATANT handball wasn't called. Oh well. A tie is fair overall.

Good result. And Plata is awesome :)

[DichioTFC]

I don't usually go crazy over a player because of one or two games but hopefully Morgan sees regular minutes at FB

Honestly, what did you see out of Morgan that impressed you? He got beat regularly and other than a few crosses, wasn't terribly impressive. He was pretty good up the pitch, but that's not his primary job. His defending was atrocious, the only reason people aren't calling him out on it is because everyone realizes hes a kid and he's going to make mistakes.

I would rather have Nick Garcia as our LB than Morgan.

[Whoop]

Please tell me the 4-3-3 is dead. We looked dangerous as hell with the 3-4-3 / 3-1-3-3

Portland isn't very good though.

[TheFallen]

Problem with TFC is we always seem to give up a goal in the early first half of the game.

[DichioTFC]

Portland isn't very good though.

Very true, but against good and bad clubs we've been equally bad. If we can fight back from 2-0 down on the road with the 3-4-3 (admittedly to a poor team), why shouldn't we try it against the league's upper echelon?

It's not like we've been stellar defensively, we have the league's highest goals against and worst goal differential and our keeper has the league's most saves and shots against.

Playing the 3-4-3 is like putting Marvel Wynne at CB in Colorado - its so crazy it just might work!

[dupont]

I'm a lot more entertained than I was last year... I know we suck... but we suck with excitement!

[swan]

Honestly, what did you see out of Morgan that impressed you? He got beat regularly and other than a few crosses, wasn't terribly impressive. He was pretty good up the pitch, but that's not his primary job. His defending was atrocious, the only reason people aren't calling him out on it is because everyone realizes hes a kid and he's going to make mistakes.

I would rather have Nick Garcia as our LB than Morgan.

i have to agree with ya about morgan game today..

[swan]

so a lot of people was pumped when we picked up Iro so when are we going to see something good out of him.. i really wanna but i just don't see anything good..

[TheFallen]

so a lot of people was pumped when we picked up Iro so when are we going to see something good out of him.. i really wanna but i just don't see anything good..

he's tall and wins the occasional possession with his height

[rocker]

just looking over the stats.. some interesting ones:

23 crosses from TFC to 5 for Portland.
56.3% possession for TFC.
84% passing accuracy for TFC (77% for Portland).
11 shots on target for Portland, 6 for TFC.

[DichioTFC]

just looking over the stats.. some interesting ones:

23 crosses from TFC to 5 for Portland.
56.3% possession for TFC.
84% passing accuracy for TFC (77% for Portland).
11 shots on target for Portland, 6 for TFC.

About the possession stat, considering we started the game at 33% possession, I would say that speaks more to how crappy Portland is than how stellar we are.

That being said, we probably had 70% possession in the last 30' onwards.

[nickio]

I would rather have Nick Garcia as our LB than Morgan.

Difference between Morgan and Garcia, is that Morgan would make something happen with the ball or play it safe. Garcia would attempt to 'slow' pass it back to Frei effectively giving it to the opposition striker for an easy goal. Garcia single-handedly destroyed our games.

Morgan on the other hand can be out of position but his pace is good enough to keep up. Positioning is a lot easier to improve than technique, and Morgan will improve with experience. A simple matter of "that's the situation = run here". If anyone remembers, it took Wynne almost a full season to get his positioning down.

[Wighty]

I'm a lot more entertained than I was last year... I know we suck... but we suck with excitement!


^^^ This right here. At least they are entertaining.

[nickio]

What a game. At one point I contemplated quitting being a fan of football all together "the last straw", after the rejected handball. Now I couldn't be more optimistic going into Real Esteli and picturing TFC in the playoffs next year. Wow- gotta love football.

[nickio]

^^^ This right here. At least they are entertaining.

I remember, watching Preki-ball hoping that our team would simply get A CHANCE. Now I'm just thinking of BURYING the chances that I KNOW we will get!

[DichioTFC]

Difference between Morgan and Garcia, is that Morgan would make something happen with the ball or play it safe. Garcia would attempt to 'slow' pass it back to Frei effectively giving it to the opposition striker for an easy goal. Garcia single-handedly destroyed our games.

Morgan on the other hand can be out of position but his pace is good enough to keep up. Positioning is a lot easier to improve than technique, and Morgan will improve with experience. A simple matter of "that's the situation = run here". If anyone remembers, it took Wynne almost a full season to get his positioning down.

First off - Wynne has never had his positioning down. Never did. Still doesn't.

Garcia at CB? Never. Garcia at LB? I would take this. I'm not saying Garcia is perfect by any means - obviously he made many, many mistakes. But at LB he was actually pretty good.

I'm fairly confident Morgan will be a regular starter for us one day. But that day is not coming any time soon. It will take a lot of time (in the reserve league preferably) for him to improve his positioning. In the meantime, Garcia's technique is better than Morgan's.

Either way, its a moot point. There's no way Garcia is coming back. The point of my statement is that Morgan is right now, at best, a bench player.

[rocker]

About the possession stat, considering we started the game at 33% possession, I would say that speaks more to how crappy Portland is than how stellar we are.

That being said, we probably had 70% possession in the last 30' onwards.

56% possession isn't "stellar" so I think you're overstating the case. If a team has 44% possession that doesn't make them "crappy". And the shifts in possession stats don't really tell one which is the better team.

Portland is typically a long ball and set piece team, while TFC is a play-it-on-the-ground possession type of team (in theory), so the stats will reflect that.

[tfcocd]

just looking over the stats.. some interesting ones:

23 crosses from TFC to 5 for Portland.
56.3% possession for TFC.
84% passing accuracy for TFC (77% for Portland).
11 shots on target for Portland, 6 for TFC.

Plata was fantastic! De Guz did not fulfill his DP status. While there was moments of frustration the fact that they earned a point in a difficult atmosphere was very encouraging. Glad to see Danny K show his scoring instinct with that finish on plata's inviting cross.

[tfcocd]

Difference between Morgan and Garcia, is that Morgan would make something happen with the ball or play it safe. Garcia would attempt to 'slow' pass it back to Frei effectively giving it to the opposition striker for an easy goal. Garcia single-handedly destroyed our games.

Morgan on the other hand can be out of position but his pace is good enough to keep up. Positioning is a lot easier to improve than technique, and Morgan will improve with experience. A simple matter of "that's the situation = run here". If anyone remembers, it took Wynne almost a full season to get his positioning down.

Deguz almost cost TFC with a poor backpass. Stefan Frei cleaned up the mess.

[DichioTFC]

56% possession isn't "stellar" so I think you're overstating the case.
And the shifts in possession stats don't really matter and don't reflect how "crappy" a team is.

Portland is typically a long ball and set piece team, while TFC is a play-it-on-the-ground possession type of team, so the stats will reflect that.

So tell me, if the shifts in possession stats don't really matter, or reflect on the ability of the team, what makes the possession stat "interesting" and why did you post it?

[nickio]

Deguz almost cost TFC with a poor backpass. Stefan Frei cleaned up the mess.

Deguz poor backpass is Garcia's best back pass.

Although I wouldn't rely on Morgan to be a starter for a couple of seasons, I don't see anything wrong with him starting an occasional game here and there. 1 game in MLS will probably equal 5-10 in reserves, for the experience he gains. Playing on field with Frings and co. he'll become all the more valuable.

Another way to think of it, if he gets a lot of exposure at the end of this season, for better or for worse, he will be all the more invaluable next season, when we WILL NEED to call on him. This season is a development opportunity now anyway.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

It was a fun game to watch (a bit of a rarity for TFC road games). When we went down 1-0, I thought we'd be okay if we didn't concede before the half. Then when we gave up the penalty, I though "here we go again", but when we scored, it really felt like we we're going to push forward and get another. Lots of highs and lows.

The period between the goals was really strong, too bad the team can't turn it on like that more often. It will be interesting to see if they build on this against Real Esteli and really put them to the sword.

[DichioTFC]

Although I wouldn't rely on Morgan to be a starter for a couple of seasons, I don't see anything wrong with him starting an occasional game here and there.

This season is a development opportunity now anyway.

That I can agree with. Starting an occasional game is much different than this....


hopefully Morgan sees regular minutes at FB

I do hope Morgan sees time on the field, but he should be a bench player first (hopefully comes on when the regular LB goes to CB and replaces Harden / Iro around 45'-60').

[tfcocd]

56% possession isn't "stellar" so I think you're overstating the case. If a team has 44% possession that doesn't make them "crappy". And the shifts in possession stats don't really tell one which is the better team.

Portland is typically a long ball and set piece team, while TFC is a play-it-on-the-ground possession type of team (in theory), so the stats will reflect that.

GOL tv showed a 60/40 possesion breakdown in favour of Portland!

[Inklink]

Plata is amazing given his size and age. Just a machine, really.

Really like Johnson too.

CBs are absolutely garbage.

I don't know what happened to JDG. Unbelievable.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

great fight, once again the last 25 minutes we looked like a real team.
To me, its clear DeGuzman's gotta go (Harden is the same), Dunfield took over with no probs. Also great to see the new kid score a goal right off the bat. Once again I feel theres more to come.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

It was a fun game to watch (a bit of a rarity for TFC road games). When we went down 1-0, I thought we'd be okay if we didn't concede before the half. Then when we gave up the penalty, I though "here we go again", but when we scored, it really felt like we we're going to push forward and get another. Lots of highs and lows.

me too

[SKB]

Must give TFC their due, a lot of good additions to the team. However, not sold on Iro. He is big and tough, but likes skill and agility. He gave up the PK and cost us a goal.I believe he was stop gap measure for this season. Still need a first class centre back.

[T.O TILL I DIE]

portland fans are just amazing when i seen how they were on t.v with all the flags and the smoke bombs, they actually looked like epl type fans or european.

But, other than those fans TFC surprised me with this tie. To be honest i was expecting a loss with the way they were playing the first half. Congrats on Marosevic for his first goal on his debute, now if Tfc plays with this much passion as i seen in the second half maybe we can make the playoffs.....jokes but maybe we can win the CONCACAF! woot

[SKB]

DeGuzman and Santos. Dunfield will replace JDG and our new captain is Frings. That must be a record two captains traded in the same year!

[DichioTFC]

^
DeGuz is still serviceable as a (really expensive) bench player IMO behind Frings and Dunfield, but Santos as absolutely no place on the pitch.

---Johnson----Koevermans----Plata---
--(Soolsma)---(Martina)-----(Marosevic)--

Trade Santos now.

[nickio]

I'm not going to be so harsh on JDG, but you can't help but feel that we could have another great DP with all the connections that our management has.

The question is, if we were to get a DP, what position would he fill? Would we really want a CB DP? Or should we go out and get a world-class winger, Creative AM?

[Torontotonto]

Team looks like there really starting to put it together, great come back.
Nothing negative from this result, away at portland down 2 -0.
Lot's of posts and crossbars tonight , some people always find a way to take away a good result.

Nicaragua,

Here we come...
Oh when the Reds...

:drum::flare::scarf::flare::drum:

[Stryker]

At this point JDG isn't even as good as the average MLS DM. His ability to dribble the ball out of trouble while being presured is the only thing he has going for him.

[KGH]

Please tell me the 4-3-3 is dead. We looked dangerous as hell with the 3-4-3 / 3-1-3-3

Is this truly the formation they dropped into? What I saw was a 4-3-3 but with frings playing CB....and I gotta say maybe thats the solution to our CB issues.

[J .]

Post game thoughts.


Very pleased Koevermans got that goal, looking good and that was a real nice shot by Marosevic. Plata got his nose in a lot of the attacks from what I heard on the Radio and had a real nice touch pass to DK who thus far is looking the part of Target man.

Johnson appears to be a decent MLS winger and thus far Im happy with his efforts. When Dunfield is healthy, Ive got high expectations for him to be paired with Frings. I think it will be a top pairing.

Frei showed today why on a better side he would be a perennial AllStar keeper.

Nice to get a point on the road, even if the Timbers have been horrible at home.

Time to ship out JDG and Santos, Id really like us to get either a DP AM, winger or CD. I can see arguments for and would be happy with, someone in one of those positions. Santos I believe would free up an international spot.

While I like Johnson and Plata, Soolsma is too often hit or miss and Ive got little time for Martina. I think either an AM who could pair with Frings and Dunfield, or someone out wide who could really be a catalyst and goal scorer would really help our attack and posession. On the other hand, someone like Rafa Marquez-esque from NYRB to lead our backline would be tremendous.

[Greatest Ripoff]

To me, its clear DeGuzman's gotta go (Harden is the same), Dunfield took over with no probs.

Couldn't agree more. Would be great is we could drop Deguzman at some point and aim for dp CB.

[Stryker]

Would be great is we could drop Deguzman at some point

That point is unfortunately after the season is over. But we can and we will.

[Parkdale]

portland fans are just amazing when i seen how they were on t.v with all the flags and the smoke bombs, they actually looked like epl type fans or european.


1 - they aren't smokebombs, it's the piped in smoke machines just like they have at BMO. The smoke just hangs better.

2 - flags and smoke at EPL games? Really?


I really enjoyed that game last night. The one big downside is that when Portland seemed to send players right though our midfield at a good speed. Our guys just didn't seem to have near as much hustle. And let's not forget.... Frei had one hell of a game last night.

overall, it wasn't beautiful, but at least it wasn't cringe-inducing or painful to watch.

[Oldtimer]

Didn't stay up for the come-back, but pleased with the final result this morning.

Also very pleased that Winter is experimenting with other Dutch formations, not just 4-3-3. I hope he finds some winning combinations. Maybe it just takes the players knowing how to play better before he lets them out of the most basic formation.

Dunfield playing better than JDG? Lol, that just shows how bad JDG has been. Thanks Mo Johnston. The sooner he is on that plane outta here the better. I'm sure that Winter and Mariner can find much better ways to spend $1.8 million.

[TFCDP]

It's nice when the post game thread doesn't have the word "rant" in the title... Entertaing game with lots of positives to carry over to Wednesday.. Nice seeing Koev score and more so Marosevic.. Eat it Dallas!

[TFCDP]

And yes, JDG must go!

[Oldtimer]

Another good thing, the refereeing was as horrible as they are going to get in Central America. This match is good experience. If they can get a tie there despite one-sided calls, TFC will be on to the next round!

[denime]

It's nice when the post game thread doesn't have the word "rant" in the title... Entertaing game with lots of positives to carry over to Wednesday.. Nice seeing Koev score and more so Marosevic.. Eat it Dallas!

I think game is Tuesday 10pm,no?

[TFCDP]

^ Just assumed Wednesday.. You're probably right.

[DOMIN8R]

After watching again, I have to vote for Frei as MotM. He saved our bacon too many times....again.

[London]

After watching again, I have to vote for Frei as MotM. He saved our bacon too many times....again.


i agree, made some great saves at key times

[koryo]

While a point on the road is better than none, it came against a team who is arguably as-bad-or-worse than TFC.

It will only mean something if they don't revert to type.

[swan]

I'm not going to be so harsh on JDG, but you can't help but feel that we could have another great DP with all the connections that our management has.

The question is, if we were to get a DP, what position would he fill? Would we really want a CB DP? Or should we go out and get a world-class winger, Creative AM?

i would rather us have 2 really solid mls CBs i think with the price of jdg ..

[Fort York Redcoat]

After watching again, I have to vote for Frei as MotM. He saved our bacon too many times....again.

His saves were amazing but we hit the woodwork and fluked out in the box almost as much.

[profit89]

Frings is the key that turns the engine of this team. He brings everyone's play up and allows good players to to raise their play (JDG, Koevermans).

[Pookie]

Interesting comments on GolTV to start the game. That TFC is not done dealing and looking for help in the midfield.

[Pookie]

Post game thoughts.

While I like Johnson and Plata, Soolsma is too often hit or miss and Ive got little time for Martina.

I like Martina's ability to create space in 1 v 1 situations and ultimately earn an opportunity to cross.

[supersaint]

Frings is starting to show what an important acquisition he is. He is a steadying influence in the midfield, a hard worker and excellent tackler. He also has very good vision and puts through some great balls. I was impressed by Dunfield, Plata, Frei and Ecks. Still feel that Iro can be a liability.
We have a lot of room for improvement, but I was entertained last night, and feel that we are finally heading in the right direction. When the transfer window opened up we were able to start moulding the team that Winter/Mariner envision.
Good effort last night too, the team worked hard, and did not give up.

[AL-MO]

1 - they aren't smokebombs, it's the piped in smoke machines just like they have at BMO. The smoke just hangs better.

2 - flags and smoke at EPL games? Really?



1. Are you sure?

2. No smoke @ EPL games but you will see them @ Champions League games involving English teams. Supporters aren't allowed to bring anything in during league matches, but are for CL games.

[TorontoGooner]

I called 2-2 before the game and that JDG should go. Let's hope instead of getting 1/2, I get 2/2 by then end of this week

[AL-MO]

Didn't stay up for the come-back, but pleased with the final result this morning.



Same. Very pleased.

I would have liked to, but had a mean case of The Itis, after having some Chinese hot pot with some work friends.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Another good thing, the refereeing was as horrible as they are going to get in Central America. This match is good experience. If they can get a tie there despite one-sided calls, TFC will be on to the next round!

yeah it was terrible reffing and at one point i realized i wasnt disappointed or surprised with it. I had definitely given up, its amazing and great to see the team didnt give up. We can definitely expect more of this in Nicaragua.


Interesting comments on GolTV to start the game. That TFC is not done dealing and looking for help in the midfield.

yep, apparently looking for an attacking creative mid, curious to see who goes and who comes in

[Ageroo]

As much as the hate on is for JDG...and deservedly so........unless you can find some team to eat up that contract....HE IS GOING NOWHERE. We will just have to deal with it until TFC can either buy him out and get him off the books or his contract expires.

As much as no one wants to see him touch the pitch again. I am hoping that once he regains fitness after his knee swelling that he will help the squad in league and champions league play......

He gave the ball away a bunch last night, but by no means was he the only one doing it. I understand everyone has him under a microscope because of his DP tag and salary(which is warranted), but sometimes it seems like people just love to rant. of the 6 shots and one on net in the first half, JDG had 4 of them and the only shot that hit the net.....Not sure why he was the only one really getting involved in the offence in the first half.....that to me is more of an issue than ragging on his play. If he is the catalyst of the attack for the first half, TFC has a lot more work to do.....I love Frings and know he is the man, but he had some open looks on goal last night and didn't pull the trigger. No one ragging on him? JDG had looks and missed the net on most, but he really was the only one attempting shots in the first half......but people don't seem to care about that?

Again, I am a fan of JDG, so take it for what it is worth....and yes I know he has played like garbage since joining TFC....so you don't have to inform me of that. I am well aware. :D

[Nuvinho]

Can we please try Iro with Robinson instead of Harden. Eck covers for Harden, that left Johnson open for the first goal.

Iro made a clumsy challenge that costs a PK, still raw, but getting more comfortable. Everyone looks horrible with Harden.

[Nuvinho]

Kovermans for a slow guy, definitely knows how to make space for a shot. A few times I was like no way, he can get around these guys and shoot.....then boom he hits it on target.

[ManUtd4ever]

I also thought JDG was decent last night, other than his poorly weighted back pass to Frei. Dunfield did look better in his place though, in terms of distribution and defensive tenacity. Dunfield hustled back to make a beautiful sliding tackle to block a shot in the box in the dying minutes to preserve the draw.

[Ageroo]

Can we please try Iro with Robinson instead of Harden. Eck covers for Harden, that left Johnson open for the first goal.

Iro made a clumsy challenge that costs a PK, still raw, but getting more comfortable. Everyone looks horrible with Harden.

I still blame Ecks for that first one........he left his man to double team the ball carrier leaving Johnson wide open.....but I would like to see Harden take a rest as well....the broadcasters seemed to say late that it seemed like he took a knock....so maybe he is out.... for good. :)

[tfcleeds]

I'm not allowing myself to get too excited yet, but having said that, I don't think it really matters what quality of opposition Portland is. That's missing the point. The point is, when have we ever showed the heart and grit to come back and get a point on the road after being in a two-goal deficit, instead of just surrendering like we normally do? I don't care if it was against an expansion team, I'll take it. Very encouraged by the result, although like I said, not getting too excited just yet.

[Ageroo]

I also thought JDG was decent last night, other than his poorly weighted back pass to Frei. Dunfield did look better in his place though, in terms of distribution and defensive tenacity. Dunfield hustled back to make a beautiful sliding tackle to block a shot in the box in the dying minutes to preserve the draw.

I agree that Dunfield did look fantastic in his debut and I love Dunfield as well......but to play devil's advocate.....

JDG is still getting back into the swing of things after his latest injury stint and according to the broadcasters was only going to play 60 minutes before getting subbed.....so who knows if JDG was completely match fit if Winter would have brought in Dunfield at all? I am curious about that...I really do wonder if we would have maybe seen Dunfield inserted with Frings and JDG. I think that this will be the eventual midfield(FRINGS, JDG, DUNFIELD)

The fact that JDG seems to be on a scheduled timetable for regaining match form helped us out last night for the most part......

[Pigfynn]

^against L.A earlier this year

[ManUtd4ever]

I agree that Dunfield did look fantastic in his debut and I love Dunfield as well......but to play devil's advocate.....

JDG is still getting back into the swing of things after his latest injury stint and according to the broadcasters was only going to play 60 minutes before getting subbed.....so who knows if JDG was completely match fit if Winter would have brought in Dunfield at all? I am curious about that...I really do wonder if we would have maybe seen Dunfield inserted with Frings and JDG. I think that this will be the eventual midfield(FRINGS, JDG, DUNFIELD)

The fact that JDG seems to be on a scheduled timetable for regaining match form helped us out last night for the most part......

Don't get me wrong, I like JDG, and I know he has a lot more to give. I think he will play his best football yet for TFC in the next several weeks alongside Frings and Dunfield.

[ManUtd4ever]

^against L.A earlier this year

True, but that was a one goal deficit. I can't recall if TFC has ever rallied from a 2 goal deficit on the road prior to last night.

[Ageroo]

Don't get me wrong, I like JDG, and I know he has a lot more to give. I think he will play his best football yet for TFC in the next several weeks alongside Frings and Dunfield.

I know...and I know he has the weight on his shoulders and I know everyone just wants him to live up to his potential...I do believe his days are numbered at TFC, but I am at least hoping he can go out with a bang......who knows, they may be able to persuade him to renegotiate for a lower non-DP deal. I doubt it, but we can dream.... :)

And I know everyone just wants him to leave, but if he didn't have a DP tag and that salary would people be more inclined to have him stay and be a part of the team. I think that pitch fork crew might have a different tune....but maybe not as he hasn't played up to snuff for us....

[swan]

and that expansion team is 3 points ahead of us in the standings with 4 games in hand with a record of 5-4-2 at home (better then ours) so this comeback does say a lot to me.. for them being an expansion team they still have been better then us this year..

[ManUtd4ever]

I know...and I know he has the weight on his shoulders and I know everyone just wants him to live up to his potential...I do believe his days are numbered at TFC, but I am at least hoping he can go out with a bang......who knows, they may be able to persuade him to renegotiate for a lower non-DP deal. I doubt it, but we can dream.... :)

And I know everyone just wants him to leave, but if he didn't have a DP tag and that salary would people be more inclined to have him stay and be a part of the team. I think that pitch fork crew might have a different tune....but maybe not as he hasn't played up to snuff for us....

JDG had his best game of the year for us when it mattered most, and he is one of the primary reasons TFC won the NCC Final to advance to the CCL preliminary round. I know he hasn't lived up to expectations, but as you suggested, he is not going anywhere for the time being because of his contract status, and he can still help this team earn results down the stretch.

[Beach_Red]

Any points on the road are big, this was a good game.

Since Winter came out and said 'he' was going to start making trades things have changed and now it seems like winning games right now has taken on a higher priority.

[Detroit_TFC]

That Koeverman goal made me run through the house and scream like a school girl. Nice to get that kind of feeling back.

[ag futbol]

I think Morgan with experience will be a serviceable MLS guy, but I don't see much upside beyond that. Positionally he was poor, blew several offside traps (including on the first goal), but he gets up and down the field really well.

[ManUtd4ever]

Any points on the road are big, this was a good game.

Since Winter came out and said 'he' was going to start making trades things have changed and now it seems like winning games right now has taken on a higher priority.

Agreed, and it is encouraging to note that the most of the recent acquisitions have made an immediate impact. The only disappointments have been Iro and Viator, but hopefully they will come around. If it wasn't for our cursed backline, we would actually have a very solid lineup.

[Auzzy]

Hopefully we hear some news from the travelling TFC fans. Apparently the Timbers supporters were good hosts -- all I've heard so far.

[ManUtd4ever]

Portland's supporters are the class of the league without question. What a phenomenal atmosphere last night.

[Macksam]

We should look into a DP left back maybe, Gabriel Heinze?

[reggie]

i did not watch the game...how did the young kid (marosevic) look?
i noticed he was wearing #10,was he playing a AM postion?

[denime]

1 - they aren't smokebombs, it's the piped in smoke machines just like they have at BMO. The smoke just hangs better.

2 - flags and smoke at EPL games? Really?


I really enjoyed that game last night. The one big downside is that when Portland seemed to send players right though our midfield at a good speed. Our guys just didn't seem to have near as much hustle. And let's not forget.... Frei had one hell of a game last night.

overall, it wasn't beautiful, but at least it wasn't cringe-inducing or painful to watch.


1. Are you sure?

2. No smoke @ EPL games but you will see them @ Champions League games involving English teams. Supporters aren't allowed to bring anything in during league matches, but are for CL games.

I watch the game in full and replay too and
The smoke was from the Chainsaw,no smoke piped machines or supporters smoke bombs.

and AL-MO you are wrong about CL,supporters are not allowed to bring anything for CL game no matter where they play England,Serbia,Spain.

Clubs are being heavily fined for pyro at CL games,if you see smoke or pyro at CL games it was probably taped before the game, the rule is, it has to be up to 30 minutes prior the or club will be held responsible and fined.

Best pictures from CL when Red Star was playing in Belgrade were 30-40 minutes before the game because of UEFA fines.

[ArmenJBX]

i did not watch the game...how did the young kid (marosevic) look?
i noticed he was wearing #10,was he playing a AM postion?

Did very well, scored a goal too.
He wears #70 I believe

[denime]

We should look into a DP left back maybe, Gabriel Heinze?

We have already 3DPs,we can't have anymore and JDG is going nowhere.

BTW
It was mentioned last night that TFC is looking for creative midfielder.Will see

[Heathen]

That Koeverman goal made me run through the house and scream like a school girl. Nice to get that kind of feeling back.

Me too :cool: that's 2 in 3 League games from Koevermans now

[Alixir]

great comeback!! They tied it up and still continued to generate chances and put pressure on Portlands back line. Hope this is a sign of things to come.
on a sidenote...Frie made some great saves but for the love of all thats good in this world please please I wish he would be a little better at PKs. I don't think I have ever seen him save one.

[BFin]

JDG has to go and we need to not get ahead of ourselves. This is still a very bad team with sub-MLS quality players.

But I'll take the draw and not the usual limpdick surrendering.
Really?

Torsten Frings, Danny Koevermans, Stefan Frei, Terry Dunfield, Joao Plata etc. are all SUB MLS QUALITY?

[DavydMT]

I watch the game in full and replay too and
The smoke was from the Chainsaw,no smoke piped machines or supporters smoke bombs.

and AL-MO you are wrong about CL,supporters are not allowed to bring anything for CL game no matter where they play England,Serbia,Spain.

Clubs are being heavily fined for pyro at CL games,if you see smoke or pyro at CL games it was probably taped before the game, the rule is, it has to be up to 30 minutes prior the or club will be held responsible and fined.

Best pictures from CL when Red Star was playing in Belgrade were 30-40 minutes before the game because of UEFA fines.

Timbers Army use real smoke, controlled by members and done on the capo platform. The are allowed two smokes per goal.

[denime]

Timbers Army use real smoke, controlled by members and done on the capo platform. The are allowed two smokes per goal.

Thanks for this info, Hey TFC FO do you read this?

[pekduck]

Timbers Army use real smoke, controlled by members and done on the capo platform. The are allowed two smokes per goal.

It also helps when they have active and retired fire marshals as part of the TA to talk to their FO to sort out the liability and safety concerns. It's a negotiated agreement to permit smoke in match from the supporter group in their controlled sections.

[Kaz]

From what I can tell we've got the attack to compete now, we've got the midfield to compete now. All that is left is to produce the back line to compete and we will be able to compete in a real way. I honestly think for the first time that Winter might actually have a vision and is trying to achieve it with the support of his staff. Next year might be really exciting. CCL might get really exciting too.

[Maltese Falcon]

From what I can tell we've got the attack to compete now, we've got the midfield to compete now. All that is left is to produce the back line to compete and we will be able to compete in a real way. I honestly think for the first time that Winter might actually have a vision and is trying to achieve it with the support of his staff. Next year might be really exciting. CCL might get really exciting too.
I agree man...forgot we have the keeper to compete too tho ;)

[Roogsy]

I was really happy for the TFC away fans that made the trip. What a game to attend! The atmosphere and then the comeback? Now that's a memorable game.

[brad]

It also helps when they have active and retired fire marshals as part of the TA to talk to their FO to sort out the liability and safety concerns. It's a negotiated agreement to permit smoke in match from the supporter group in their controlled sections.

I suspect fire codes and liability and such is also going to be different between Toronto and Portland (and anywhere else in the US for that matter)

[Thomas]

To come back from a 2 goal deficit in that stadium showed some heart and fortitude that has been missing this year. Out of all our players, Iro was the most disappointing last night. I'll cut him a bit of slack, due to basically no playing time for quite some time. Overall, a strong result.

[Shakes McQueen]

Just looked at the "foul" that led to the penalty for Portland - Iro got kind of hosed there. As far as contact in the box goes, that was pretty sketchy.

- Scott

[rocker]

Did anyone see a good angle on the non-offside before the first Portland goal?

Johnson looked well offside at the point the ball was hit, but because he stopped and waited for the ball, and all the players moved back, it appeared to some he wasn't offside. But I'm sure he was offside.

It looked to me like Eckersley had him covered at first, but seeing him offside, Eckersley moved in to help his defender take on the man with the ball, leaving Johnson totally free in an offside position. But with no call on the offside, Ecks was now out of position.

[bgnewf]

Late Game Heroics in Portland

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/07/late-game-heroics-in-portland/

My post game video blog after Saturday night's 2-2 draw in Portland that saw the Reds come back with two late goals to salvage a point.

In this edition I take a look at the good, the bad and the ugly... the good was namely Ashtone Morgan in the attack, Peri Merisovic scoring in his debut, Danny Koevermans scoring his 2nd in three games and of course the best player on the pitch for TFC two games running, young Joao Plata. The bad of course was a helping of sketchy MLS officiating, and a dose of once again poor defensive positioning. And the ugly was of course Ty Harden still on the pitch and Julian de Guzman missing the sitter of the season. I also take a quick look ahead to the critical Champions League game in Nicaragua on Tuesday evening.

[mclaren]

There are positives. We finally have a top class striker, Dunfield is the midfielder JDG should have been (made some good defensive challenges yesterday), and Plata is looking good (although hot and cold).

The HUGE weakness is there for all to see - our defence. If it were not for Frei, they could have put many, many past us yesterday.

This board tends to go from extremes. The point saved yesterday was a good one (how often do we come back to get something?), but let's not kid ourselves - our defence was shocking at times and against a stronger team we would have been punished.

[ArmenJBX]

Late Game Heroics in Portland

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/07/late-game-heroics-in-portland/

My post game video blog after Saturday night's 2-2 draw in Portland that saw the Reds come back with two late goals to salvage a point.

In this edition I take a look at the good, the bad and the ugly... the good was namely Ashtone Morgan in the attack, Peri Merisovic scoring in his debut, Danny Koevermans scoring his 2nd in three games and of course the best player on the pitch for TFC two games running, young Joao Plata. The bad of course was a helping of sketchy MLS officiating, and a dose of once again poor defensive positioning. And the ugly was of course Ty Harden still on the pitch and Julian de Guzman missing the sitter of the season. I also take a quick look ahead to the critical Champions League game in Nicaragua on Tuesday evening.

HEY! That's my shtick at RedNationOnline! :D

[Alonso]

i gotta say Dunfield made such a great first impression. Solid guy, knows where to pass.


How the hell Soehn let him go for a sack of potatoes I will never understand.

[TheFallen]

i'll never understand why we start Harden..

[TFCRegina]

I was extremely pleased with what i saw last night. I had to watch the game on replay because i had family commitments.

[habstfc]

JDG had over a 75% pass percentage last night, give the guy a break.

34 succesful passes
10 unsuccesful passes
according to match stats

I thought he actually played fairly well, let's face it the whole team was shit in the first half, putting the blame on one or two guys is a little ridiculous. He is better suited playing in a forward position like the last few games he's played.

[BFin]

He's better suited as a forward midfielder that can't put a ball on net from inside the area?

Sorry but I agree with everyone else, 75% pass rate or not...he was not very good.

[Pachuco]

Good comeback from the boys. Plata still the best player on this team in my mind without him we have no sparks to our engine.

2 of our DPs were awesome and the other, well I think the other one just lost his starting job to Dunfield. Who came in and really made a difference in my mind. I actually don't care to see JDG on the field again, we have capable DMs who have the ability to go forward and also help defend. JDG is a liability going forward and he's just alright defending.

Marosevic looked promising. Good size and skill. Not sure he's the AM we need though. More and more I think we should play Plata as AM as we have enough guys who can play the wing decently.

Iro is starting to really scare me. I thought he'd be better then this. No doubt in my mind that was a penalty, I don't even think it was close. Plus he gets beat with speed fairly easily.

[Oldtimer]

There are positives. We finally have a top class striker, Dunfield is the midfielder JDG should have been (made some good defensive challenges yesterday), and Plata is looking good (although hot and cold).


I'd say Dunfield is 75% of what JDG should have been, at a shocking 3-1/2% of the price.

[habstfc]

I think portland sitting back and the addition of martina were bigger factors in the turn around than JDG leaving the pitch or dunfield coming in. I think you'll see the Frings, JDG, Dunfield trio from now on.

[habstfc]

I'd say Dunfield is 75% of what JDG should have been, at a shocking 3-1/2% of the price.

You're basing your opinion of dunfield on 25 minutes of his first game in a tfc uniform.

[Alixir]

You're basing your opinion of dunfield on 25 minutes of his first game in a tfc uniform.good enough for me. He impressed me more in that 25 minutes then JDG has since he signed with us.

[Pachuco]

Yeah because Dunfield was playing in the Qatar league before he came here with no visibility to TFC fans.

[habstfc]

He's better suited as a forward midfielder that can't put a ball on net from inside the area?

He was the only guy that had a shot on net in the first half for tfc last night. I know the shot you're refering to, that superball bouncing ball on the turf that he sent over the net. Frings did the exact same thing against real esteli, where was the outrage then?

[habstfc]

good enough for me. He impressed me more in that 25 minutes then JDG has since he signed with us.

REALLY... HA HA HA now you're just being a dick, get real.

[Pachuco]

He was the only guy that had a shot on net in the first half for tfc last night. I know the shot you're refering to, that superball bouncing ball on the turf that he sent over the net. Frings did the exact same thing against real esteli, where was the outrage then?

2 shots missed the net. 1 wide open shot right at the goalie. 2 through balls went past the goal line and missed their target. 1 cross hit the portland supporters. That's the guy you want play a more forward role? He was brutal and a liability last night playing in a more forward role. Absolutely no imagination going forward.

[Alonso]

just looking over the stats.. some interesting ones:

23 crosses from TFC to 5 for Portland.
56.3% possession for TFC.
84% passing accuracy for TFC (77% for Portland).
11 shots on target for Portland, 6 for TFC.


Nice!

Could this finally be the start of something good for this team?

[habstfc]

More and more I think we should play Plata as AM as we have enough guys who can play the wing decently.

You are 100% correct on this he should be playing AM role he has good speed can take guys on straight on and has decent distribution and can dribble good at close quarters.

[Chevy]

That Koeverman goal made me run through the house and scream like a school girl. Nice to get that kind of feeling back.

+1. It's nice to be up at 1pm watching footie and NOT feel like you've been kicked in the nuts.

[habstfc]

2 shots missed the net. 1 wide open shot right at the goalie.

C'MON dude that happens to every player.

[Oldtimer]

You're basing your opinion of dunfield on 25 minutes of his first game in a tfc uniform.

I should have qualified it and started my phrase with "at first impression."

[Stryker]

REALLY... HA HA HA now you're just being a dick, get real.

Someones being a dick alright, and it isn't Alixir.

[PopePouri]

JDG had over a 75% pass percentage last night, give the guy a break.

34 succesful passes
10 unsuccesful passes
according to match stats


I'd say giving away 1 out of 4 balls away is poor especially for a possession team. The team overall had 85%.

[Alonso]

Don't get me wrong, I like JDG, and I know he has a lot more to give. I think he will play his best football yet for TFC in the next several weeks alongside Frings and Dunfield.


I think you might be right, and I certainly hope so. If he and Dunfiled can start working well together it would be a great thing for our national team as well.

[Laurignano]

Marosevic looked promising. Good size and skill. Not sure he's the AM we need though. More and more I think we should play Plata as AM as we have enough guys who can play the wing decently.

Iro is starting to really scare me. I thought he'd be better then this. No doubt in my mind that was a penalty, I don't even think it was close. Plus he gets beat with speed fairly easily.

Iro needs a speedy partner to compliment him. I think if he starts to position him self better and use his experience to help anchor the back, he could be a decent CB for us. But until then...well...I don't know lol.

Plata as an AM...hmmm sounds tempting...but I really like him coming off of the wing. Marosevic looked really promising playing in the middle/attacking. I think it would be really interesting to see what he would look like playing on the wing and Plata playing in the AM position.

[Shakes McQueen]

C'MON dude that happens to every player.

It's somewhat expected of your average MLS lifer. It's not expected of your $1.7m designated player.

The guy doesn't have a single goal as a TFC player. Do you realize that? Not a single goal!

- Scott

[Alonso]

JDG had over a 75% pass percentage last night, give the guy a break.

34 succesful passes
10 unsuccesful passes
according to match stats

I thought he actually played fairly well, let's face it the whole team was shit in the first half, putting the blame on one or two guys is a little ridiculous. He is better suited playing in a forward position like the last few games he's played.

Yup, if this continues through the rest of the year he's going to put away some goals for us.

[habstfc]

It's somewhat expected of your average MLS lifer. It's not expected of your $1.7m designated player.

- Scott

Frings did the same thing wednesday night, how much does he make? That's sports things don't always go right.

[Brooker]

It's been a while since I watched a road game and really enjoyed the quality of play and the outcome.

Let's do it again.

[69Chevy396]

Not sure about the jdg factor, but we saw two different clubs last night, one with him in the lineup, the other without. Most of the passes he made, that count toward that useless stat, were back passes, including several to the keeper. The poor quality of his passes were evident on the passes moving forward, where, in his usual style, gives the ball away on an errant pass up the middle. On occasion, one works, and that is good, but for the most part, the team played much better with the second half subs, and when that overpriced useless mutt left the game.

[ag futbol]

It's somewhat expected of your average MLS lifer. It's not expected of your $1.7m designated player.

The guy doesn't have a single goal as a TFC player. Do you realize that? Not a single goal!

- Scott
Who is the joke on really, if we were expecting him to score for TFC?

years - club -appearances-goals
2002–2005 Hannover 96 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannover_96) 78 (2)
2005–2009 Deportivo La Coruña (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportivo_de_La_Coru%C3%B1a) 97 (1)
2009– Toronto FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC) 41 (0)

He had a career run of *offensive* form when playing for Canada over a short period of time but he doesn't play like that regularly. Now that doesn't excuse his poor play in general, but if we were expecting him to score goals i think that's diluted.

[Pachuco]

Who is the joke on really, if we were expecting him to score for TFC?

years - club -appearances-goals
2002–2005 Hannover 96 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannover_96) 78 (2)
2005–2009 Deportivo La Coruña (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportivo_de_La_Coru%C3%B1a) 97 (1)
2009– Toronto FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC) 41 (0)

He had a career run of *offensive* form when playing for Canada over a short period of time but he doesn't play like that regularly. Now that doesn't excuse his poor play in general, but if we were expecting him to score goals i think that's diluted.

The point is HABSTFC is suggesting he play in a more forward role. I think you are absolutely right, no one should expect him to score or create opportunities going forward, he's terrible at it. But anyway, I think most people who don't think he's doing a very good job judge his defensive abilties more then anything.

One thing is for sure though, when you find space to put the ball in the net and you consistently miss for 2+ years well then, you aren't very good going forward.

[ag futbol]

The point is HABSTFC is suggesting he play in a more forward role. I think you are absolutely right, no one should expect him to score or create opportunities going forward, he's terrible at it. But anyway, I think most people who don't think he's doing a very good job judge his defensive abilties more then anything.

One thing is for sure though, when you find space to put the ball in the net and you consistently miss for 2+ years well then, you aren't very good going forward.
Not going to disagree with that. He was known in spain for shooting over the net. True to form last night...

I think partially, he's gotten lazy and let's face facts: he's damaged goods at this point. Seems to spend more time on the physio table than on the field.

[Pachuco]

BTW - I'll make a friendly bet that both Dunfield and Frings score with TFC before JDG does. And JDG has 2+ years advantage.

[rocker]

I just think JDG should never shoot. He has no history of goals, and can't shoot worth a shit (that one shot on goal last night was like 1 in 100). So even if he's open, he should just fuckin pass the ball to somebody else. Cuz his field goals cost us opportunities.

[Dkolish3]

I'd say Dunfield is 75% of what JDG should have been, at a shocking 3-1/2% of the price.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Dunfield was not cheap for the Whitecaps to get I'm pretty sure they front-loaded his contract like crazy to get him over here. Sort of like Ilya Kovalchuk's bazillion year contract

[TFCRegina]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Dunfield was not cheap for the Whitecaps to get I'm pretty sure they front-loaded his contract like crazy to get him over here. Sort of like Ilya Kovalchuk's bazillion year contract



They gave him more last year. He's on a 65k contract right now.

[Dkolish3]

They gave him more last year. He's on a 65k contract right now.

Does anyone know how much allocation we gave up for him to come here? All I'm saying is that he may look cheap but he probably wasn't.

[habstfc]

Not sure about the jdg factor, but we saw two different clubs last night, one with him in the lineup, the other without. Most of the passes he made, that count toward that useless stat, were back passes, including several to the keeper. The poor quality of his passes were evident on the passes moving forward, where, in his usual style, gives the ball away on an errant pass up the middle. On occasion, one works, and that is good, but for the most part, the team played much better with the second half subs, and when that overpriced useless mutt left the game.

So it all had to do with the fact that JDG came off and Dunfield came on and had nothing to do with the fact that the timbers were sitting back trying to bunker down (which, like tfc are nowhere near good enough defensively to do that) and that martina absolutely owned the right side of the pitch when he came on?

[habstfc]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Dunfield was not cheap for the Whitecaps to get I'm pretty sure they front-loaded his contract like crazy to get him over here. Sort of like Ilya Kovalchuk's bazillion year contract



I think you are right. I remember reading on here that dunfield is on about double the money next year, I could be wrong.

[Shakes McQueen]

The point is HABSTFC is suggesting he play in a more forward role. I think you are absolutely right, no one should expect him to score or create opportunities going forward, he's terrible at it. But anyway, I think most people who don't think he's doing a very good job judge his defensive abilties more then anything.

One thing is for sure though, when you find space to put the ball in the net and you consistently miss for 2+ years well then, you aren't very good going forward.

Exactly.

- Scott

[rocktml]

Mad Respect to the timber army! Goosebumbs the whole game.

[koryo]

Never mind the tit-for-tat about JDG. It's not whether he's any good, the point is that he's not good enough for the money he's on.

Personally, I think he's lazy, ineffective, we're better off without him and he should be paying back his wage for the performances he turns in. But keep on defending him if you must.

[habstfc]

Never mind the tit-for-tat about JDG. It's not whether he's any good, the point is that he's not good enough for the money he's on.

Personally, I think he's lazy, ineffective, we're better off without him and he should be paying back his wage for the performances he turns in. But keep on defending him if you must.

By that logic we are way better with him in the lineup. TFC lost 4 in a row after the vancouver win all of which JDG never played in. So how are we better off without him in the line-up?

[69Chevy396]

So it all had to do with the fact that JDG came off and Dunfield came on and had nothing to do with the fact that the timbers were sitting back trying to bunker down (which, like tfc are nowhere near good enough defensively to do that) and that martina absolutely owned the right side of the pitch when he came on?
Right. I agree fully. When strategy and desperation dictated the need for change, the manager did the right thing, and put jdg to pasture.

[69Chevy396]

By that logic we are way better with him in the lineup. TFC lost 4 in a row after the vancouver win all of which JDG never played in. So how are we better off without him in the line-up?
Would any other mls side trade their starting holding midfielder straight up for jdg if the salary was not an issue? He is simply not good enough to play for most clubs in this league (how he made it in la liga remains a huge mystery for me)

[habstfc]

Would any other mls side trade their starting holding midfielder straight up for jdg if the salary was not an issue? He is simply not good enough to play for most clubs in this league (how he made it in la liga remains a huge mystery for me)

Actually if you watch the game TFC started taking over the run of play before the JDG sub.

[Auzzy]

I was a JDG supporter for a long time. But when you get the ball in the penalty area, directly in front of the goal, with lots of time to settle, you have to be able to put the shot on frame. Maybe you will at least get an occasional rebound or corner out of it or something. That counts for anyone who plays in a U12 rep team & better, any position (defense, MF, or offence). Man, goalies have a better track record of scoring goals against us from that area, than JDG has for us. He generally seems to have a huge problem hitting the ball accurately, regardless if it's a pass or a shot. I don't know if it's nerves with JDG, or injury, or something else. I would bet that if Frings had golden opportunities like that, he would at least have made the Portland keeper do some work. The long range shot that Frings put over the net recently was from farther away, with more people between him & the net, so it was a more difficult shot.

[sashavukelich]

i'm starting to get off the JDG 'will be successful' bandwagon, and i know he's rusty as crap. But with what we are paying Dunfield, and the passion/determination he shows, if i was a CM i'd rather have him beside than JDG any day of the week. Dunfield is a true competitor, like our other DPs....Johnson is another one. Boys who simple don't give up, because they aren't afraid.

LOVING the new TFC...too bad i'm moving to Vancouver in August...waaaa

[habstfc]

i'm starting to get off the JDG 'will be successful' bandwagon, and i know he's rusty as crap. But with what we are paying Dunfield, and the passion/determination he shows, if i was a CM i'd rather have him beside than JDG any day of the week. Dunfield is a true competitor, like our other DPs....Johnson is another one. Boys who simple don't give up, because they aren't afraid.

LOVING the new TFC...too bad i'm moving to Vancouver in August...waaaa

Vancouver is a great city. You'll know what it's like for me to be a habs fan in enemy territory.

[TFCwestcan]

I was really happy for the TFC away fans that made the trip. What a game to attend! The atmosphere and then the comeback? Now that's a memorable game.

Big huge props to the Timbers army who treated us royally and thanked us for coming. We heard grief from one fan stating the he hoped that Portland would win, turns out he was a Vancouver fan. Loved the electric atmosphere from the TA section, their Tetris move was simply amazing.

Interesting, you could see the Timbers fans almost slump when Toronto scored their first goal.

Really great to meet some of the TFC away fans. On the six minute game preview you can see the huge TFC flag in the very first scene a little pocket of red in the field of green.

[Oldtimer]

Would any other mls side trade their starting holding midfielder straight up for jdg if the salary was not an issue? He is simply not good enough to play for most clubs in this league (how he made it in la liga remains a huge mystery for me)

He actually was very good in Spain, and decent on the CMNT. The biggest mystery is why he usually is crap for TFC (he has the occasional good game, like against Esteli). I used to think it was Preki's fault, JDG isn't made for the bunker for 90 minutes game. Then I thought it was team-mates who didn't know the passing game. Now I think something else must be wrong, something that no coach can fix. Maybe he's playing in pain and can't concentrate. Maybe he's checked out and is just collecting a paycheque. Maybe he's missing his family in Spain. Whatever it is, it's not working and he needs to go.

[sashavukelich]

Big huge props to the Timbers army who treated us royally and thanked us for coming. We heard grief from one fan stating the he hoped that Portland would win, turns out he was a Vancouver fan. Loved the electric atmosphere from the TA section, their Tetris move was simply amazing.

Interesting, you could see the Timbers fans almost slump when Toronto scored their first goal.

Really great to meet some of the TFC away fans. On the six minute game preview you can see the huge TFC flag in the very first scene a little pocket of red in the field of green.


I had the priviledge of going to Portland about 5 weeks ago, and man...what a fantastic city. Jeld-Win (PGE) Park would be the crown jewel of MLS stadiums if it had grass, it's absolutely beautiful.

I would encourage any TFC fan to make the trip to Portland, the prices are great, the people are super friendly and you can walk the city very simply.

[TFC USA]

Watched the game in 6.....


How shit is Iro? I swear it's like he is always 5 seconds behind the play.

[TFC USA]

Really?

Torsten Frings, Danny Koevermans, Stefan Frei, Terry Dunfield, Joao Plata etc. are all SUB MLS QUALITY?

Ty Harden, JDG, Andy Iro, Yourassowsky, Borman, etc. are?

I didn't say this entire team was sub-MLS quality. Every time we eek out a draw on the road (we still haven't won an MLS road game this year) we do a complete 180 from "WORST TEAM EVER!" to "this new side is going to be SICK NASTY in 8-10 games".

I'm excited for Koevermans, Frings, and so on but the shit outweighs the good by a lot.

[koryo]

By that logic we are way better with him in the lineup. TFC lost 4 in a row after the vancouver win all of which JDG never played in. So how are we better off without him in the line-up?

How does that work? If I was to employ that line of thinking, I could say that I wore blue socks on Thursday instead of black, and it rained that day, which the garden needs, so I should wear blue socks every day.

Saying JDG makes us a better side because he played 60 minutes in a draw on the road... if you can even call that reasoning, then it's specious at best.

Sorry, JDG has had two years to show his quality, to take up a leadership position on this team. To-date, he simply has not done either.

So how are we better off with him?

[torontocelt]

JDG is never worth a DP slot, not even close.

[v00d00daddy]

Watched the game in 6.....


How shit is Iro? I swear it's like he is always 5 seconds behind the play.


Ty Harden, JDG, Andy Iro, Yourassowsky, Borman, etc. are?

I didn't say this entire team was sub-MLS quality. Every time we eek out a draw on the road (we still haven't won an MLS road game this year) we do a complete 180 from "WORST TEAM EVER!" to "this new side is going to be SICK NASTY in 8-10 games".

I'm excited for Koevermans, Frings, and so on but the shit outweighs the good by a lot.

Out of curiosity...did you watch more than the game in six?

[nickio]

Portland:

-Great fan support in their first MLS year
-Coach with an English accent, with a direct 4-4-2 hoof and run game
-Giving up goals late in the game
-New stadium

^Kind of sounds familiar.

I know Toronto hasn't really achieved anything, but I don't feel like the last 5 years have gone to waste for us, at all. I feel like, as an organization, TFC IS a few years ahead of the Portlands and Vancouvers of the league.

In comparison to these teams, Toronto has a lot to look forward to next season and for once we seem to have a clear direction of what is going to happen. Usually, at this point our team would be falling apart. But I feel like the opposite is happening, a winning team is forming.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but that is just what I see around the league and where TFC stands.

[habstfc]

How does that work? If I was to employ that line of thinking, I could say that I wore blue socks on Thursday instead of black, and it rained that day, which the garden needs, so I should wear blue socks every day.

Saying JDG makes us a better side because he played 60 minutes in a draw on the road... if you can even call that reasoning, then it's specious at best.

Sorry, JDG has had two years to show his quality, to take up a leadership position on this team. To-date, he simply has not done either.

So how are we better off with him?

HUH?

[TFC USA]

Out of curiosity...did you watch more than the game in six?

I watched the game in 80. I missed the start of the 2nd half.

[ryan]

Ty Harden, JDG, Andy Iro, Yourassowsky, Borman, etc. are?

I didn't say this entire team was sub-MLS quality. Every time we eek out a draw on the road (we still haven't won an MLS road game this year) we do a complete 180 from "WORST TEAM EVER!" to "this new side is going to be SICK NASTY in 8-10 games".

I'm excited for Koevermans, Frings, and so on but the shit outweighs the good by a lot.

"By a lot" my fuckin ass.


Koevermans, Plata, Johnson, Frings, Dunfield, Eckersley, Frei are not shit.

That's 7 starting players who are damn good enough for MLS.

Martina, Soolsma, Cann, Williams, Santos...all are good enough for MLS in the roles they play.

Or you have guys like Morgan, Omphroy, Henry who are just kids with potential, so labeling them shit simply isn't fair.

Or you have guys like Lindsay, Bouchiba, Griffit, Marosevic...who are either hurt or having been here long enough to even grade.


TLDR version: blow your shit out your ass cause it's annoying when you spew it from your fingers.

How many MLS rosters don't have 5-10 shit players on it?

[Shakes McQueen]

Ty Harden, JDG, Andy Iro, Yourassowsky, Borman, etc. are?

I didn't say this entire team was sub-MLS quality. Every time we eek out a draw on the road (we still haven't won an MLS road game this year) we do a complete 180 from "WORST TEAM EVER!" to "this new side is going to be SICK NASTY in 8-10 games".

I'm excited for Koevermans, Frings, and so on but the shit outweighs the good by a lot.

The shit only outweighs the good BY A LOT, in the context of our unrest over several previous years of shit.

I think our offense is probably going to be okay, and our defense still needs work (and a couple of good signings). We've finally got a striker who can at least force the keeper to make a save, a couple of bonafide midfielders, and actual options on the wings (for the first time in years).

There's no doubt our defense is still rubbish - Harden, Borman, and Yourass don't impress me at all (though I think Yourass is a bit better at LB). Iro I'm still not sure about - defending is a group activity, and when you're out of sync with those around you, it's easy to look shit. Even more so when you're trying to trap.

There are still more problems than solutions (this is all you can say, until our record starts to prove otherwise), but some issues are being sorted.

- Scott

[TheFallen]

why is our defense so shit

[J .]

TFC has a lot of good players on it, I think we have seen that over the years players leave and then why we brought them in shows up. Labrocca and Wynn to name just two of the most recent.

A lot of what happened I think was a lack of leadership and familiarity. The team never really stabilized.

For me the biggest problem has been tactical and leadership over the past few years. Preki tactics were right for the players he had, but he was a poor leader. Carver a good leader, poor tactics, Dasovic the same.

Its my hope Winter brings it together and it is his team now. Any and all results are on him and not the previous management he has brought in some personnel whom I think are very good MLS quality players.

Hopefully the Portland game was a return of some character and the willpower. The team needs belief and guts to pull out these come from behind wins. Maybe it was a character point, maybe it was a fluke, I hope its a sign the team is coming together.

Nonetheless, at this point the results have not been there and while some people accept the poor results, I'll accept nothing less than a playoff birth as a measure of success and by that measure this season will be a failure. Winter has time to turn it around though and that would be a massive story in the clubs history if we were able to pull an RSL and make it to the next round.

[koryo]

HUH?

oh dear me, you can't be serious.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^An argument can be made that we would be better with JDG in the lineup because he provides better movment than most in his position that are available on this team. The problem being that that level still comes nowhere near the level of a game changing result from a DP.

That said I sincerely doubt that his exclusion from the lineup affected morale of the side as much as the subtraction of a DP (the only on at that for most of those matches) should. Lucky we don't have that problem anymore with our new DP arriving. I propose that we celebrate what seems to look like the near end of JDG's time with our reds. Love him or not we can all appreciate that.

[69Chevy396]

This makes sense. When he arrived, i thought, shit, we have a seasoned pro fresh from la liga. I never saw him play for deportiva etc. so, like everybody else, I applauded the signing and expected great things, considering he was so highly rated, and played at the very top level, and was now going to be playing for mls, quite a step down. Like Crosby joining a hockey league in Switzerland. However, after his short time here it is plainly obvious this was a huge mistake. He brings nothing to the team. Carl Robinson was my favorite player, and I frankly believe he is/was a better player, at least in mls, than jdg has been. Robinson and Edu, and others played hard, made tackling part of their game, even if they fucked up sometimes. Robinson had horrible aim when shooting on net, but he found ways to be part of the offense. Something this mutt jdg never seems to have. That hard strike he took against Portland was the first that I have seen which required the keeper to do something. I understand he is a DM, not expected to score. But shit, not even once? This is mls, not la liga. Instead of wasting millions on him, we should replace him with a few average mls quality defenders. I liked what Dunfield did in his short stint, and expect that he starts over jdg from now on, regardless of the salary issue etc.

[Stryker]

why is our defense so shit
I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here and say maybe it has something to do with our two starting CB's substaining season ending injuries.
What are you new?

[Couchy81]

That hard strike he took against Portland was the first that I have seen which required the keeper to do something. I understand he is a DM, not expected to score.

To be fair he had a wicked shot some games ago that tested the keeper but I don't recall who it was against. It was gonna go in just under the crossbar but keeper got some fingers on it.

I don't like the way he plays personally but I remember the many arguments on here after we signed him and last year about his offensive abilities. He is not here to score for us, he's here to stabilize the back half of the pitch and distribute the ball to the AM or wingers.

[69Chevy396]

To be fair he had a wicked shot some games ago that tested the keeper but I don't recall who it was against. It was gonna go in just under the crossbar but keeper got some fingers on it.

I don't like the way he plays personally but I remember the many arguments on here after we signed him and last year about his offensive abilities. He is not here to score for us, he's here to stabilize the back half of the pitch and distribute the ball to the AM or wingers.
I understand, and how is that working out so far?

[Pookie]

He has skill. Debating his giveaways vs his positive attributes will get us no where. Eckersley, as an example, has great hustle and awareness. That said, he left his man to double team a Portland attacker leading to the first goal. Everyone makes mistakes.

The issue with JDG is that he takes up a DP slot. The question around him isn't his skill. It is whether that is the most effective use of the DP slot.

[Detroit_TFC]

^ this is the point.

[69Chevy396]

^ this is the point.
I understand this as well, a lot has been said about jdg's skills at distribution and holding the team together defensively. But this rarely happens. The defenders have a choice when they are under pressure. Pass to the midfield, presumably jdg, or hoof it up the pitch. So many times this season, when they chose the former, he botches it. The guy has good touch when receiving a pass from the defenders, but invariably fucks up when attempting to move the ball up the wing or centre. This is where his give aways hurt the most, and since he is supposed to be a 'world class' player, he should be able to orchestrate this better than we have witnessed. Giving the ball to him is usually one step before giving the ball to the opposition. So the forwards are left hanging on to their testicles. As soon as jdg leaves the game, the options for the defenders improve and the team plays much better. As for his salary, even if he was earning 100 k per year he would be considered less than average at his position in this league.

[Pookie]

^ in fairness, I think "less than average" considering his injuries, surgery and the like is a little harsh.

When healthy, he has arguably been one of the better midfielders we have had. I know that isn't saying much for a non-playoff team but earning caps for Canada indicates he isn't a stiff.

That said, I am fully of the opinion that if you put his skill set relative to his current state of health up against other available players that would carry a DP tag, I'm am 100% certain that we could find a better use of that DP slot out there.

[swan]

He has skill. Debating his giveaways vs his positive attributes will get us no where. Eckersley, as an example, has great hustle and awareness. That said, he left his man to double team a Portland attacker leading to the first goal. Everyone makes mistakes.

The issue with JDG is that he takes up a DP slot. The question around him isn't his skill. It is whether that is the most effective use of the DP slot.

i could be wrong/thinking of another goal but what i remember is ecks was chasing his man that cut to the middle and iro left his man to double team him then that guy passed it over to the now open guy and then ecks chased him..

[PopePouri]

i could be wrong/thinking of another goal but what i remember is ecks was chasing his man that cut to the middle and iro left his man to double team him then that guy passed it over to the now open guy and then ecks chased him..

Harden had closed the space actually. Ecks left his man to double team and got caught out.

[MarkoftheDrink]

Successfully completed passes by our DP MF's:

http://i.imgur.com/fIVgE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Y4frd.jpg

[MarkoftheDrink]

I really hope JDG has more to offer and he just needs time to get match fit and gel with his new teammates. The rest of the season will be interesting for him.

[Couchy81]

Julian De Guzman interview from a few days ago here: http://www.juliandeguzman.info/2011/07/28/julian-de-guzman-on-his-commitment-to-toronto-fc/

[los sonadores]

All the JDG bitching + Frings comparisons is so incredibly tiresome. Okay, he's probably in the wrong league, but still the club is considerably better with him than without. He's hardly played in a month. He is very experienced, usually excellent away in hostile CA and SA stadiums. He should be worth it alone for the CL if they can advance. And anyway I find it refreshing to have at least one Canadian on the TFC that looks like he "can play football", or is at least capable of it.

[Shakes McQueen]

All the JDG bitching + Frings comparisons is so incredibly tiresome. Okay, he's probably in the wrong league, but still the club is considerably better with him than without. He's hardly played in a month. He is very experienced, usually excellent away in hostile CA and SA stadiums. He should be worth it alone for the CL if they can advance. And anyway I find it refreshing to have at least one Canadian on the TFC that looks like he "can play football", or is at least capable of it.

The question isn't whether the teams looks better with him than without - the question is whether he looks better than player(s) that could be taking up his cap space instead.

- Scott

[jloome]

All the JDG bitching + Frings comparisons is so incredibly tiresome. Okay, he's probably in the wrong league, but still the club is considerably better with him than without. He's hardly played in a month. He is very experienced, usually excellent away in hostile CA and SA stadiums. He should be worth it alone for the CL if they can advance. And anyway I find it refreshing to have at least one Canadian on the TFC that looks like he "can play football", or is at least capable of it.

Agreed. The hyperbole that he's shit or how much better Dunfield will be is just delusional. He completed 34 of 44 passes the other night, which isn't fantastic, but it's not shit.

[69Chevy396]

Agreed. The hyperbole that he's shit or how much better Dunfield will be is just delusional. He completed 34 of 44 passes the other night, which isn't fantastic, but it's not shit.
That is misleading. Many of his completed passes are those that are short and to the defenders or to Frei. His forward passes give him trouble. On at least four or five occasions in that game he put the ball right on a Portland players boot while looking right at him. When Robinson did this occasionally, people derided him mercilessly. Why does this guy get a pass? (no pun intended)

[Max_TO]

JDG , to me he seemed like he needs to settle down a bit . 2 of his 3 SOG were rushed and off the mark . He , more than anyone IMHO , realizes how he look and the questions regarding his game play . He needs to worie about playing the game rather then rushing his game in hopes of " proving his critics wrong " . Does he have the skill to play in MLS , I don't know as I have no info on his history with other clubs .

[ag futbol]

I don't think we should be asking questions about the league he's in. He played in Germany for a while, the physical requirements of playing in the bundesliga are obviously superior to MLS in every way possible. Spain is more on the technical side but the standard of play is also incredibly high.

The issue is the JDG who played for those european teams does not exist today. Level of play has decreased and injuries have increased markedly. He's not playing at the level he was before he arrived here, I think that should be obvious.

[los sonadores]

I don't think we should be asking questions about the league he's in. He played in Germany for a while, the physical requirements of playing in the bundesliga are obviously superior to MLS in every way possible. Spain is more on the technical side but the standard of play is also incredibly high.

The issue is the JDG who played for those european teams does not exist today. Level of play has decreased and injuries have increased markedly. He's not playing at the level he was before he arrived here, I think that should be obvious.

Not too many playing at that level play as well here as they did in Europe. I hope Frings can keep up his level of play but, for example, the difference between Frings working with (even) 19 yr old Plata on the field and without Plata is considerable. He needs smart players around him who know how to find space at the right time. It's so easy to imagine Frings not making a huge impact, despite his 'leadership, etc.... especially imagine him being here before the recent acquisitions.

Even injured JDG is one of the most skilled players on the team.

[swan]

Harden had closed the space actually. Ecks left his man to double team and got caught out.

went and watched it again

it was harden and not Iro and the portland guy didn't cut to the middle like i thought... but to me it still looks like harden left his guy ecks was chasing guy 1 down and when they got close to harden that was covering guy 2 harden left guy 2 and started double team guy1 letting guy 2 go uncovered...

but anyway the point was even players that are good make mistakes witch is 100% true..

[Fort York Redcoat]

^Correct but there is another side to that. If one is playing beside a player he trusts to do his job without help one never neglects his own job.

So we could say no Harden maybe no double team from Ecks, right?

[maninb]

What bothers me most about JDG isn't his mediocre passing but his incredibly BAD TACKLING.....MLS is a very physical league (unlike la Liga) and JDG gets swatted away like he was a misquito most of the time...hardly a trait you want in a DM....

[trane]

Agreed. The hyperbole that he's shit or how much better Dunfield will be is just delusional. He completed 34 of 44 passes the other night, which isn't fantastic, but it's not shit.


I would say that 34 of 44 is a poor night for a holding mid, who you would hope would make safer passes to more attacking players, or even pass it back to safety, but it is not a terrible night by any standard, and he is a better passer and receiver of the ball then almost anyone on this team.

I like him, but as I have said many times before, I would like to see a bit more pace ( not burning pace, just pace to cover alot of ground) and physicality from my DM, in any league those are the qualities of a DM. His passing was never my concern. Although he seems to make poor passess at times seemigly from a lack of concetration.

[maninb]

^Agreed...Dunfield was 23 out of 24.....34 out of 44 is POOR by pro standards....

[69Chevy396]

^Agreed...Dunfield was 23 out of 24.....34 out of 44 is POOR by pro standards....

I had no idea one could obtain these stats, I suppose the internet is God after all. For those of you who have the time or inclination: How many goals have TFC allowed with JDG on the pitch versus goals when he is not playing? How many goals has the team scored with him on, versus when he is off? Just curious, considering he is supposed to be a leader, even if he is never expected to score a goal himself, much like a keeper or linesman, or coach.:)

[habstfc]

I would say that 34 of 44 is a poor night for a holding mid, who you would hope would make safer passes to more attacking players, or even pass it back to safety, but it is not a terrible night by any standard, and he is a better passer and receiver of the ball then almost anyone on this team.

He wasn't really playing DM. Frings wassreally playing that more, JDG was playing further up the other night.

[habstfc]

^Agreed...Dunfield was 23 out of 24.....34 out of 44 is POOR by pro standards....

I'm not knocking Dunfield but when he came on Portland were already on their heels putting absolutely no pressure on him, it's a little easier to make passes at that stage of the game than in the first half where nobody was really doing anything for tfc.

[habstfc]

I had no idea one could obtain these stats, I suppose the internet is God after all. For those of you who have the time or inclination: How many goals have TFC allowed with JDG on the pitch versus goals when he is not playing? How many goals has the team scored with him on, versus when he is off? Just curious, considering he is supposed to be a leader, even if he is never expected to score a goal himself, much like a keeper or linesman, or coach.:)

I have tried to find a +/- type stat for mls like the nhl has but can't find one.