Post-game thread TFC vs. Real Esteli

[Oldtimer]

JDG had a good 20 minutes...

Plata MOM

Our substitute GK... :facepalm:

[Globetrotter]

Wow... those other threads get closed quickly....



Will it be enough?

Our last 4 road games are all losses, and outscored 14-3.

Now we go to astroturf in their country.

We don't have Dero.

Any guesses?

[zamperina]

I think we still squeak by...No wonder Kocic is the backup, just brutal!

[London]

well it wouldnt be TFC if there was no drama

[QSIM]

As our boys come off the pitch against a makeshift third world club, Nick Labrocca comes on against Manchester United. Funny thing, that football stuff.

[TFC Cityboy]

2-0 would have been a decent result. That brainfart from Kocic puts a whole new complexion on it tho

[C.Barrett19]

i dont get if kocic oicked up the ball wouldn't it be a back pass?

[Laurignano]

*sigh lol. The key is to not get scored on next game...and put Frei in net.

[Brooker]

Oh well. I think we'll play better in the 2nd leg than some people are expecting so I'm not too down about the Kocic fuck up.

[QSIM]

Oh well. I think we'll play better in the 2nd leg than some people are expecting so I'm not too down about the Kocic fuck up.

It really depends on the personnel on the pitch. It will be very VERY tough for our kids to scrape out a result in Central America. Hopefully we see Dunfield, a fully fit JDG, etc. out there.

[Globetrotter]

Oh well. I think we'll play better in the 2nd leg than some people are expecting so I'm not too down about the Kocic fuck up.

It's still pretty much their preseason, so that helps us, but 3-11-9 (19GF 41GA) is why we worry.

[Nuvinho]

Kocic costs me money.....I had under 2.5 goals...damn you!!

[Alixir]

Kocic shouldn't even be the backup to a back up.

[TFCRegina]

It's still pretty much their preseason, so that helps us, but 3-11-9 (19GF 41GA) is why we worry.

That and the fact we were only able to pot 2 goals against one of the worst teams in the tournament.

[MG42]

Kocic costs me money.....I had under 2.5 goals...damn you!!

kocic had the over lol

[Juanito]

That and the fact we were only able to pot 2 goals against one of the worst teams in the tournament.

Next match is going to be real tense.


We have a poor away record.
We'll probably be exhausted from having a match on the weekend and having to fly out to there.
We are not the best at keeping a clean sheet


All they have to do is score one goal and they win on aggregates. I'm not sure what tactics Winter will use.

[ManUtd4ever]

Kocic tarnished the result of a match that TFC rightfully dominated. TFC also couldn't capitalize on several point blank scoring chances. The resulting 2-1 scoreline will now force TFC to keep a clean sheet or score enough to earn a draw the second leg, but I believe our squad is strong enough to earn the necessary result to advance in Nicaragua.

It's really a shame that Frei was injured, or TFC would have surely had a two goal margin moving forward. Even when we win, it seems we're cursed.

[Juanito]

Kocic tarnished the result of a match that TFC rightfully dominated. TFC also couldn't capitalize on several point blank chances. The resulting 2-1 scoreline of will now force TFC to either keep a clean sheet or score a goal in the second leg, but I believe our squad is strong enough to earn the necessary result to advance in Nicaragua.

It's really a shame that Frei was injured, or TFC would have surely had a two goal margin moving forward. Even when we win, it seems we're cursed.

http://www.internalbleeding.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/The-Curse-1.jpg

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Pretty disappointing game, was pretty lacklustre, im starting to worry about Koevermans as he was out of the game quicker than teh last two

[Pookie]

Johnson was terrific.

I worry more about our travel schedule than I do the return leg. Lot of air miles from Toronto to Portland to Nicaragua in 6 days.

[Waggy]

Next match is going to be real tense.


We have a poor away record.
We'll probably be exhausted from having a match on the weekend and having to fly out to there.
We are not the best at keeping a clean sheet

All they have to do is score one goal and they win on aggregates. I'm not sure what tactics Winter will use.

And all we have to do is score 1 goal and we win on aggregate. There's really no need to get QUITE so negative after a win where we had our backup gk in on short notice due to injury and were 1 brainfart away from a clean sheet, despite the academy guys getting decent run. Let's save the sky is falling speech for the next MLS loss maybe?

[bman27]

Shame about the goal against, because tfc did dominate every part of this game, and their best player was their keeper, this score could have easily been 4-0 but I will give him some good saves made and their team playing 8 men in the box at almost all times, given this and the horrible reefing I dont really see this as a bad performance by tfc minus the kocic blunder

[ag futbol]

Pretty disappointing game, was pretty lacklustre, im starting to worry about Koevermans as he was out of the game quicker than teh last two
Definitely lacking fitness, but I agree ... not the fastest start.

It was an ok game for TFC. We certainly haven't put ourselves out of it yet.

[Carefree]

A win that feels like a loss. We were all over them and should have won this 4-nil so we could send the Academy kids to Nicaragua. I got a baaaad feeling about next week, like a season-ending injury to Koovs in the fifth minute and a 1-0 loss.

[QSIM]

Portland away, followed by our trip to central America. These are two very winnable games and two games I expect us to win.

This is where we really see what Winter can offer as our gaffer. This is all about player management. Make the right squad selection, make substitutions accordingly and give us the best chance at winning these two games. Time to earn your paycheck Aron.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I see us winning in central america before i see us winning in Portland. if im not mistaken portlands got a decent home record right now and a packed stadium

[QSIM]

I see us winning in central america before i see us winning in Portland. if im not mistaken portlands got a decent home record right now and a packed stadium

The environment may be just as tough in c.America. Plus the travel.

I still expect us to win in Portland. It's not like we have a poor side anymore. We have top quality players, who have been together for 2-3 games now It shouldn't be too much to ask for one road win, especially against a weak side.

[kcisoul]

i dont get if kocic oicked up the ball wouldn't it be a back pass?


NO, Eckersley would have had to mean to pass the ball to kocic and he didn't.

[menefreghista]

Despite the final result, I would be quite shocked if Real Esteli pulled off eliminating TFC. TFC is still in the drivers seat, mostly because of how terrible Esteli is.

The Kocic error was unfortunate. I can't believe we are wasting an International spot on him.

By the way, anyone have the announced attendance for this game?

[kcisoul]

Is Kocic considered an International spot? If so I find it kind of dumb to use an international spot for a back up keeper who doesnt play. Why did TFC get rid of Brian Edwards wasnt he suppost to be really good?

[denime]

Oh well. I think we'll play better in the 2nd leg than some people are expecting so I'm not too down about the Kocic fuck up.

+1

They had 2 shots on the net in the whole game,one of them thanks to Kocic brainfart.

We dominated the game and we will do it again in the 2nd leg.

Spoke to Dunfield right after the game,he can't wait to play,he hopes to be in the lineup for Portland game.If he is back for the 2nd leg I'm very confident we will go to the group stage.

Good night

[Ossington Mental Youth]

By the way, anyone have the announced attendance for this game?

9k something

[denime]

Is Kocic considered an International spot? If so I find it kind of dumb to use an international spot for a back up keeper who doesnt play. Why did TFC get rid of Brian Edwards wasnt he suppost to be really good?

That question you have to ask Mo and Preki,they sent him away last year.

[menefreghista]

9k something

Thanks. Seems slightly inflated. Only the south end looked packed. Although I didn't see how packed the west side was.


Is Kocic considered an International spot? If so I find it kind of dumb to use an international spot for a back up keeper who doesnt play. Why did TFC get rid of Brian Edwards wasnt he suppost to be really good?

This info is hard to come by, but I'm fairly certain he's an international.

As for Edwards, he has caught on with Degerfors in Sweden's 2nd tier. He is their starting keeper and they are pushing for promotion.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

enough to say 9k, we guessed 10k

[ua-kozak_TFC]

despite the victory I left the game w a bitter taste in my mouth..

Tactics...the more i watch i a more convinced that winter's "system" is shit. it's the most ridiculous system i;ve seen i think our punt kick to the fron to dichio was more effective than this.
The biggest problem of this system is we are too predictable we just control the ball w the defence which is a liability and then slowly pass it down the flanks. The movement of the ball is so slow that the opposing defence have more than enough time to catch on and defend against it. I can literally count on my hands how many times we have done one touch pases.
We held the ball way too far from the danger zone to do any demage. And 90% of our crosses were just blocked or horrible the other 10% the headers were so soft. Yet we were like a head taller than every player on their team except plata... what to say about plata... I don;t know why he didn;t start. if he wasn;t in the game i am sure we would have tied or even lost w that f up by kocic.
i think there is so many players that need to be upgraded... i would rather start a youth player than even though he sucks will earn a lot of experience than soolsman even though had glimpses of light was too sloww on his passing and feet and does keep up on extratime instead of concentrating on the game and trying to play the ball as soon as possible to maybe leave toronto with a more comfortable lead. if it wasn;t for frings that came to him and made him throw a quick one he;d be doing keep ups untill the ref blew the wistle...

rant over

[Stryker]

Johnson is quickly becoming a favorite of mine. With Johnson and the Koov and Soolsma serving up juicy balls I think our offence is in pretty good shape now.
Our defence, although not tested tonight, is still crap with the exception of Ecks.
In the two games Ive watched Morgan closely I am NOT impressed to say the least.

[Macksam]

I didn't see the match. How were the kids; Morgan, Henry and Stinson?

[lobo]

more drama please

[TFCRegina]

9k something

9,241

[TFCRegina]

Is Kocic considered an International spot? If so I find it kind of dumb to use an international spot for a back up keeper who doesnt play. Why did TFC get rid of Brian Edwards wasnt he suppost to be really good?

Better question my friend: Why get rid of Jon Conway?

[reggie]

fire winter..what a moron..he should of went balls to wall in this game..he pulled a preki today..i had had enough of this shit,they should beat these guys 5 - 6 nil..

[ryan]

Johnson playing underneath Koevermans is intriguing eh? Martina also looked comfortable in that spot as well. I realize RE is fairly pish, but still we looked alright.

I thought JDG paired well with Frings during his 20 minutes on the pitch.

I fuckin love Richard Eckersley. I want Toronto to buy him from Burnley but I know it won't happen.

[Chevy]

I didn't see the match. How were the kids; Morgan, Henry and Stinson?

All did quite well. Henry was solid (moreso than Iro IMO), Morgan had a few decent crosses however he's still extremely raw. Stinson impressed - good on the ball and made some quality plays. Not afraid to take a crack at goal either.

[ag futbol]

fire winter..what a moron..he should of went balls to wall in this game..he pulled a preki today..i had had enough of this shit,they should beat these guys 5 - 6 nil..
I don't think there was anything Preki about it.

We just have too many passengers in the final third. Not enough guys who want to make things happen.

[reggie]

the fact that he started zarvese instead of plata is a joke..wtf

[kaos197O]

t plata... what to say about plata... I don;t know why he didn;t start.

rant over
Because he's way......WAY....more effective as a super sub. His energy coming into the game as a sub just runs the crap out of teams. Even Martina was flying and causing the Esteli players all kinds of problems when he checked in. I liked Winter's choice of Subs tonight and I liked when he brought them in.

We will win in Nicaragua.

I just feel it.

Ohhhhhh and was it ever nice to watch our boys dominate a game for 90 full minutes. I could really get used to that :D

:scarf:

[Yohan]

fire winter..what a moron..he should of went balls to wall in this game..he pulled a preki today..i had had enough of this shit,they should beat these guys 5 - 6 nil..
lulz in this comment. other than Plata not starting, Morgan at LB, the line up was pretty much first team. (JDG and Dunfield not being completely match fit)

unlucky to get more goals, but I'm confident that TFC will win on aggregate. it's like Real Esteli put in 4 midgets in backline compared height of TFC attackers and didn't have much of a solution to physical air battle. don't see that much changing next week. just simply outmuscling real esteli. well, real esteli will dive and cry more often. they got lucky by a good performance by their keeper.

highlights and summary from concacaf site. I can watch that Plata free kick all over many times. it's like the spirit of Guevara got imbued on Plata on that goal. when was the last time a TFC player scored on a free kick? balls on Plata to take that one instead of Frings. (aka the new captain already?)

http://www.concacaf.com/page/CL/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2403646,00.html

[ArmenJBX]

Who captained today's match?

[Yohan]

Johnson playing underneath Koevermans is intriguing eh? Martina also looked comfortable in that spot as well. I realize RE is fairly pish, but still we looked alright.
I dunno. at times it looked like TFC was playing 4-2-4 because Johnson was basically in line with Koevermans a lot. Johnson played well, but this isn't going to work too well against other MLS teams.




I fuckin love Richard Eckersley. I want Toronto to buy him from Burnley but I know it won't happen.
if Eck cost under 500k, BUY HIM!!!

[backbeat]

I loved the subs tonight - very effective - normally the mids would be JDG, Dunfield/Griffit and Frings, which to me is strong with Kov, Johnson and Soolsma up front with Plata and Martina potentially coming in with a lot of energy...once we get the defence set i really think we're looking very competitive....bring on a CB and LB please....

good showing tonight...

[Whoop]

Who captained today's match?

Frings.

[reggie]

yes they will win because they are a great road team,dont count on it..turf..all that traveling and those great concrap refs..a tie at the most,im thinking a pk in the 85 min and we lose 1 nil...and then winter can rest his players.

[Yohan]

All did quite well. Henry was solid (moreso than Iro IMO), Morgan had a few decent crosses however he's still extremely raw. Stinson impressed - good on the ball and made some quality plays. Not afraid to take a crack at goal either.
Henry was effective because he can outmuscle Real Esteli strikers which made it a real easy night for him.

I thought Morgan was pretty disappointing with not so good first touches and terrible crosses. Wasn't really tested on his decision making on going forward because real esteli played so defensively so Morgan could come up for the attack pretty much whenever he could. Right game for him to get some experience.

Stinson did ok. Just overall a solid night without much of a mistake or really outstanding plays

[backbeat]

Henry was effective because he can outmuscle Real Esteli strikers which made it a real easy night for him.

I thought Morgan was pretty disappointing with not so good first touches and terrible crosses. Wasn't really tested on his decision making on going forward because real esteli played so defensively so Morgan could come up for the attack pretty much whenever he could. Right game for him to get some experience.

Stinson did ok. Just overall a solid night without much of a mistake or really outstanding plays

there was no pressure on the back 4 tonight at all....

[Keyman]

lol at people complaining about plata not starting....winter makes a tactical decision, which ends up leading to two goals, and people still complain. plata is far more effective when he's up against tired legs.

koscic's mistake was a one in a million play, he probably collects that ball 99% of the time. Tough break, to me it's not a reflection of his talent (or lack there of).

We looked better tonight, gradually improving.

[Heathen]

Plata as a sub and not starting is the best tactical move Winter has made all season, he's obviously more effective coming off the bench, including the galvanizing boost it gives the crowd.
Still come on, anyone who is happy with tonight's performance against a clearly weaker team needs to give their head a shake. Against opposition like this anything other than having the tie all but sealed up after the first leg is a disappointment, this isn't Montagua FFS

[brad]

Really liked at the end of the match when the Estelli player went down and stayed down a foot from their touch line. The ref went over and told him to get off the field. When he didn't listen, the ref restarted the game while the player was down. Need to see more of that with the time wasting antics.

[Yohan]

Really liked at the end of the match when the Estelli player went down and stayed down a foot from their touch line. The ref went over and told him to get off the field. When he didn't listen, the ref restarted the game while the player was down. Need to see more of that with the time wasting antics.
real esteli manager was going ape shit on the sidelines over that. it was good lulz

[boozilla]

Esteli's trainer was a bit overdressed, no?

[Couchy81]

Plata almost had a hat-trick. And I thought Maicon was a super sub.

Whole south end except for 112 was dead until the last 30 min. Not the same as last year!! Pick it up next game boys

Soolsma had some nice footwork in the first half he's growing on me

[Whoop]

I don't know how Soolsma does it. Guy is consistently the slowest guy on the pitch and yet he manages to get balls into the box.

As for the TFC FO, better get a good look at the crowd, it could be the future.

[Inklink]

Esteli's trainer was a bit overdressed, no?

^^LOL! Now that you mention it, I realize what you mean. Good point.

As for the match, I missed the first 20 or so and was watching baseball at the same time the rest of the way, so my observaitons might be a bit off. Thanks for the folks who posted streams links: much appreciated. And sorry for the outrage @ MLSE earlier for Rogers' mess.

I thought Johnson was great. Plata is a beast. Sparkplug.

Morgan and Ecks looked very good to me. Am I off on this?

Kocic. :facepalm:

Frings was okay and Kouvermans was using his body to win the ball, but seems a bit lacking still.

Great deliveries into the box from the wings for the most part, I thought.

Really would've liked a more comfortable margin.

[jazzy]

the fact that he started zarvese instead of plata is a joke..wtf
Zavarese had a good game and Plata as you could see came on as a sub like gangbusters

[werewolf]

Impressed by Soolsma, though lets see him own the flank against a better opposition.

I've seen this movie before, we may have dominated against a far weaker team, but if we lose 1-0 on Tuesday, I can't say I would be shocked...

[Waggy]

Better question my friend: Why get rid of Jon Conway?

Better question- why didn't we make Sutton a smallish offer when he got cut by the Red Bulls

[Auzzy]

I don't know how Soolsma does it. Guy is consistently the slowest guy on the pitch and yet he manages to get balls into the box.



Esteli obviously had watched Soolsma on the game tapes. Starting from the beginning, they often put 3 or 4 on him or near him. Soolsma still rarely loses the ball, or just passes back if it gets too tight. Meanwhile he's pulling opponents away from other areas.

Just too bad all the other TFC players couldn't score more with all that space...

[Whoop]

Wasn't Sutton loaned to Montreal?

[Whoop]

Even against Dallas, Soolsma was still beating defenders. I just don't know how Mr. Hoppity does it.

[werewolf]

That translator guy should disregard one of the stupid questions from the reporters and change it to ask Frings why he didn't shoot in the first half, when he took about 3 touches at the top of the box, had space, and elected to pass it wide.

[PopePouri]

Originally Posted by TFCRegina
Better question my friend: Why get rid of Jon Conway?

To get Plata?

[brad]

I like Soolsma, have all year. As to how he can get his crosses in - good close control, moves well into space with the ball, knows how to create space for himself and can deliver a ball in with a step on an opposition player.

He is a good player technically, he's just slow. I would like to see an upgrade in his position though and have him come on later as a sub when the opposition has slowed down.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Better question my friend: Why get rid of Jon Conway?


So we could draft Plata.

Really surprised by the negativity of this thread. Sat in 105 so I got to see all of the action in the second half. Thought the team did a good job of taking control and keeping on the pressure. A real shame about goal they conceded.

I wish they gave out those mini programs like they did last year.

[PopePouri]

^^LOL! Now that you mention it, I realize what you mean. Good point.

As for the match, I missed the first 20 or so and was watching baseball at the same time the rest of the way, so my observaitons might be a bit off. Thanks for the folks who posted streams links: much appreciated. And sorry for the outrage @ MLSE earlier for Rogers' mess.

I thought Johnson was great. Plata is a beast. Sparkplug.

Morgan and Ecks looked very good to me. Am I off on this?

Kocic. :facepalm:

Frings was okay and Kouvermans was using his body to win the ball, but seems a bit lacking still.

Great deliveries into the box from the wings for the most part, I thought.

Really would've liked a more comfortable margin.

Agree with everything. Thought the academy kids were great.

[werewolf]

It was nice to here the Airport announcer lady at the beginning of the match, doesn't feel the need to make everything sound like a monster truck rally. We need a bell jingle before she talks though.

[aboyandhisdog]

Kocic is a tool! That is the kind of shit that is going to come back and bite TFC in the ass...just wait!

[Couchy81]

That translator guy should disregard one of the stupid questions from the reporters and change it to ask Frings why he didn't shoot in the first half, when he took about 3 touches at the top of the box, had space, and elected to pass it wide.

Was shouting shoot from the top of 115 at that moment, my only guess is he is still not used to being an offensive midfielder. That was as open a look as I've ever seen anyone have and for a player of Frings caliber to pass up the shot just shows a level of comfort that he hasn't reached yet apparently.

[aboyandhisdog]

Damn, just saw the stats...TFC: 7 shots on goal and 2 goals...Esteli: 1 for 1, baby. They know the secret for next week...just put it on goal. Brutal!

[shaggingscot]

Absolutely gutted about that away goal. Hope it doesn't come back to bite us in the arse!

[dupont]

I just want to say that the team looked absolutely amazing today. I'm only going to focus on that. It was a really great performance.

[Yohan]

^Except Real Esteli is about quality of FC Edmonton....

[Shakes McQueen]

Good game, and a good performance save for one possibly disastrous brain fart from MILOS!

Hopefully fate isn't a cruel mistress, and that doesn't come back to haunt us, because I thought we otherwise played a really complete game.

- Scott

[TFCRegina]

^Except Real Esteli is about quality of FC Edmonton....

Glad I wasn't the only one who caught that.

[Brooker]

Kocic is a tool!

He's not a tool. He's a decent backup. It was just a gigantic fuck up.



^Except Real Esteli is about quality of FC Edmonton....

Bit of an exaggeration there.

[TFCRegina]

He's not a tool. He's a decent backup. It was just a gigantic fuck up.




Bit of an exaggeration there.

You're right, Esteli is worse than FCE.

[Brooker]

not at all.

[JuliquE]

Kocic tarnished the result of a match that TFC rightfully dominated. TFC also couldn't capitalize on several point blank scoring chances. The resulting 2-1 scoreline will now force TFC to keep a clean sheet or score enough to earn a draw the second leg, but I believe our squad is strong enough to earn the necessary result to advance in Nicaragua.

It's really a shame that Frei was injured, or TFC would have surely had a two goal margin moving forward. Even when we win, it seems we're cursed.
How's the curse I cursed you with, Cursedy.. hmm?

http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/e/e5/Gypsy.png

[117]

I'm not saying that we can't or won't win on Tuesday to advance.

But Real Esteli will be THRILLED to be going home down 2-1. That's really how we should measure the outcome.

[KGH]

Was at the game and it was clear form the beginning that the midgets from Real Esteli were clearly playing for a draw. At any moment there were 7 guys behind the ball and most times 10. We really shouldn't be happy with this result as Anything can happen. All they need is a favourable card happy ref, crappy field conditions, sniper on the rooftops...who knows but a 1-0 win for them will ice this. I'm not overly confident yet.

Side note...What was with all the calf cramping on their side?? Couldn't be the heat as it was one of the nicest nights in a while at BMO and their coaching staff seemed to think it was winter.

[Oldtimer]

Esteli played Prekiball effectively, and got a Preki-like result (2-1 loss). It was ridiculous at times how many people they had behind the ball defending. Defend, defend, defend, and hope to get a lucky goal (which they did).

They will have to do something better offensively in order to win the second match, and they'll have to score at least 1 goal. Key for TFC is to pot an away goal, and even things up at that point. If they can do that, the second game is winnable. I feel confident that if it comes down to PKs, TFC will win.

However there will be a real challenge playing at their stadium: hostile crowds, corrupt or incompetent CONCACAF refs... it will take character to win that game.

[David_Oliveira]

Can't believe the negativity around these places. who hasn't seen goalies make horrible mistakes?
Here is one of the best keepers in the world and a compilation lasting 7 Minutes with his mistakes.
Zwclb7ztywg
I'm not comparing Kocic with Casillas. There really is no comparison. But when fans shit on a keeper after one bad mistake, I think it's sad. Sometimes I think people are on this MB just to shit on the team, like they have nothing to do.

The team played the way they were supposed to against an oppenent of lesser quality. Should they have scored more? Definitely but their keeper had a good game.

For those saying Esteli is like Edmonton, How did we play against Edmonton? We played far worse than we did today. We stayed composed, controlled play and pounced on their weakness; their height. We haven't seen TFC expose a team's weakness pretty much ever.

I for one came away happy with the 2-1 win, worried but happy. we should of had more but I think the boys showed a glimpse of what they can do.

[Wull]

I don't know what everyone is complaining about, guys were covering and rotating, showing for the ball at all times and making runs and moving into space. The opposition may not have been great but they did more of what Winter has been asking than in any game this season. One unfortunate mistake from a kid aside, I was content with how they played.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The diving and rolling around was infuriating, Im pissed they didnt get knocked up for wasting time. I will give the ref points for consistently hitting both teams for rough play, although i prefer my soccer quite physical. Something i hope we keep in mind when we're down there.

They were definitely defensive and we have to make sure we dont give up the ball so easily this time. They are definitely happy to be going home with an away goal, this is why i was so disappointed. WIthout a strong lead this game is not ours.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

FTR im definitely positive for the most part, i just feel we could have run away with this game and im disappointed we didnt. Im also concerned we didnt give ourselves enough wiggle room to play in nicaragua

[Beach_Red]

The negativity is understandable because a weak team came in here and got the result they wanted.

[zeelaw]

Can Plata do this against MLS opposition more often please?

And Kocic wtf man... Was this his first game all season?

[JuliquE]

http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/photos_gallery_view/image_nodes/2011/07/TFCvREFC6.jpg

[KGH]

http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/photos_gallery_view/image_nodes/2011/07/TFCvREFC6.jpg

And I will call him mini-me

[Nuvinho]

Our defence played well, mind you they didn't have much to do. It would of been a confidence booster if they kept a clean sheet (which was not their fault).

[kodiakTFC]

Have any of you ever played keeper before? Shit happens. It's actually pretty phenominal that Frei never seems to mess up.

[TFC Cityboy]

I don't know what everyone is complaining about, guys were covering and rotating, showing for the ball at all times and making runs and moving into space. The opposition may not have been great but they did more of what Winter has been asking than in any game this season. One unfortunate mistake from a kid aside, I was content with how they played.

I agree - decent performance tho we were wasteful in front of goal.

How was 115 last night? Tourists?

[__wowza]

http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/photos_gallery_view/image_nodes/2011/07/TFCvREFC6.jpg


he's palming his head like a basketball!

[sidvan]

I agree - decent performance tho we were wasteful in front of goal.

How was 115 last night? Tourists?

Full of tourists. Security made me take down my RPB flag but then the tv camera guy was encouraging the Real Esteli fans next to us (for shame TFC FO) to wave their flag for the camera. What is with TV and even on the stadium screen always wanting to show away fans. If it were up to me they would never appear on the stadium screen. Why bolster the visiting team's supporters?

[Pookie]

You can never please some Leaf fans. I mean some TFC fans. Who am I kidding, one and the same really.

There were many positives from last night.

Of course, let's just focus on the one or two things that didn't result in a "perfect" outcome. Even better, let's call it shit and inject a tone of extreme negativity.

After all, this is a board that is supposedly a home for "supporters", so come on, let's show our support after a win and rally around the boys by calling them shit. Send them off to Portland, then to Nicaragua feeling really bad about themselves so that of course, they'll want to play better to earn our respect.

Respect which is obviously worth something because of our well thought out and unchallengeable criticism.

[Wull]

I agree - decent performance tho we were wasteful in front of goal.

How was 115 last night? Tourists?

Tourists wasn't the word for it, Nick, Grant etc. got thrown down the front and we had people wearing vancoooover hats and complaining they paid for seats but couldn't sit in them due to us standing and then we had nicaraguans up the back waving flags for tv at which point I started booing them and the cameraman who was encouraging them but trying to start anything other than TFC *clap clap clap* was a waste of voice

[Ossington Mental Youth]

dont even get me started on the fucking nicaragua supporters.
Im fucking livid they were allowed in my section (117) and those assholes in the FO should know better. We did start chanting them out when they started up. Clearly clueless as they were clapping at all the wrong times. Id like to know who i can contact about this as I dont ever want to see this again.

[jabbronies]

the fact that he started zarvese instead of plata is a joke..wtf


Actually I'm starting to think that Plata is much better off the bench than he is as a starter.

[Wull]

dont even get me started on the fucking nicaragua supporters.
Im fucking livid they were allowed in my section (117) and those assholes in the FO should know better. We did start chanting them out when they started up. Clearly clueless as they were clapping at all the wrong times. Id like to know who i can contact about this as I dont ever want to see this again.

I'm going to mention it to Mr Beirne on twitter later, if Ubersocial will ever work again after the OS update

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'm going to mention it to Mr Beirne on twitter later, if Ubersocial will ever work again after the OS update

Pls do. i also started a thread in the other part of the forum with the hopes he will see it.

[BFin]

Actually I'm starting to think that Plata is much better off the bench than he is as a starter.
Still doesn't make Zavarise a starter. He has looked awful in the couple appearances I have seen.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i didnt think Zavarise was that poor yesterday, dont think he was great but i do think if he has a few more games in tha tposition (dont forget hes been playing CM most of the season) he will improve and find his stride.

[ManUtd4ever]

The negativity is understandable because a weak team came in here and got the result they wanted.

No, disappointment would be understandable because of a fluke incident that occurs once in a decade. Any negativity regarding TFC's actual performance last night is nothing but a joke.

TFC completely dominated the match, as they should have. TFC outshot Real Esteli 19-3 and had almost a 70%-30% edge in possession. Their keeper stopped several point blank scoring chances and kept the scoreline much closer than it should have been.

Seattle had a similar match away in Panama where they outplayed an inferior opponent in San Francisco FC, couldn't capitalize on their chances, and lost 1-0.

It's football. Shit happens.

[Carefree]

I was sitting at the bottom of 110 during the first half so I got a good look at Zavarise whenever TFC attacked down the left side, and I thought he did a decent job. I just wish we could have used our height advantage better, as Zava and Koovs were both at least six inches taller than their tallest defender.

I think the reason for the negativity is that even though we won the game and have a pretty good chance of winning the tie, we really should have put it away last night like we did in the first leg at Edmonton. That way we wouldn't have had to get all our starters down to a hostile environment, field turf, stifling hot weather, etc. I still think we'll get the win, but we'll have to work hard to get it, and we shouldn't have had to.

[Carefree]

Seattle had a similar match away in Panama where they outplayed an inferior opponent in San Francisco FC, couldn't capitalize on their chances, and lost 1-0.

Wow! does that ever sound familiar. Were the fouls 16-1 against Seattle at half time?

[Beach_Red]

No, disappointment would be understandable because of a fluke incident that occurs once in a decade. Any negativity regarding TFC's actual performance last night is nothing but a joke.

TFC completely dominated the match, as they should have. TFC outshot Real Esteli 19-3 and had almost a 70%-30% edge in possession. Their keeper stopped several point blank scoring chances and kept the scoreline much closer than it should have been.

Seattle had a similar match away in Panama where they outplayed an inferior opponent in San Francisco FC, couldn't capitalize on their chances, and lost 1-0.

It's football. Shit happens.

Well then, I guess it was win-win and everybody's happy.

[reggie]

we jus really suck in the box,we had 6 o 8 clear headers from 8 to 10 yards out.got to be more lethal in the box.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I was sitting at the bottom of 110 during the first half so I got a good look at Zavarise whenever TFC attacked down the left side, and I thought he did a decent job. I just wish we could have used our height advantage better, as Zava and Koovs were both at least six inches taller than their tallest defender.

I think the reason for the negativity is that even though we won the game and have a pretty good chance of winning the tie, we really should have put it away last night like we did in the first leg at Edmonton. That way we wouldn't have had to get all our starters down to a hostile environment, field turf, stifling hot weather, etc. I still think we'll get the win, but we'll have to work hard to get it, and we shouldn't have had to.

This

[boozilla]

dont even get me started on the fucking nicaragua supporters.
Im fucking livid they were allowed in my section (117) and those assholes in the FO should know better. We did start chanting them out when they started up. Clearly clueless as they were clapping at all the wrong times.

To me, 10 half blind girls screaming whenever Esteli looked like they'd make it out of their half, was funny at first, then just annoying.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

To me, 10 half blind girls screaming whenever Esteli looked like they'd make it out of their half, was funny at first, then just annoying.

yes, we started to chant over them, some other group started to chant 'ni-car-ah-gwaaaaah' when real fucked up. I will admit several of the girls were cute. Did not take away from the fact they were irritating

[PopePouri]

Kocic: Solid except for the fuck up. Shit happens.
Eckersley: Meh, not his best game. His crossing was shit and he gave away the ball a bunch of times but he had good work rate which we expect from him
Henry: Solid. Broke up some plays and made some excellent passes with great accuracy.
Iro: Improved showing. Obviously he didn't the same amount of pressure when he was on the ball but he was a rock at the back tonight.
Morgan: I don't know why there's hate against him. Well played. Made some great crosses but then has some shitty ones. What sets him apart from Borman is his work rate. He works harder and therefore was better positioned when play breaks down. What sets him apart from Yourass is he also has decent footballing brain. He made good runs on the left and knew when to pas. He was a poor mans Eckersley and that's a complement.
Stinson: Raw performance. Made some shitty passes but caused some issues going forward.
Frings: The general. Dictated play well. Quality.
Zavarise: Got lost at times. Pity about his injury.
Johnson: Love the player. The guy was everywhere, he has fantastic control and he's a massive threat in the air.
Soolsma: Almost MOTM. He's living proof that there's other aspects that make an effective winger, specifically deception, spacing, change of pace and ball control.
Koevermans: Not as effective at the game against SKC. Off night.


Thought Winters tactics and selection were spot on. He did his homework.

[Canary10]

i didnt think Zavarise was that poor yesterday, dont think he was great but i do think if he has a few more games in tha tposition (dont forget hes been playing CM most of the season) he will improve and find his stride.

He wasn't good. At one point in the first half there was a ball floating deep in their box. Intead of running in and challenging it he sat there and let them bring it down and clear. He's lazy as hell.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

He wasn't good. At one point in the first half there was a ball floating deep in their box. Intead of running in and challenging it he sat there and let them bring it down and clear. He's lazy as hell.

Dont think hes lazy just think hes adjusting to that position, dont forget hes spent the majority of the season at CM/DM, i do think once he gets it into his head as to what he supposed to do he will do it well enough

[Heart of Stone]

Johnson is a solid player... hopefully he sticks around.

[Canary10]

Overall a pretty good game for us. We really made it hard on ourselves in the return leg giving up that goal though. But I didn't see anything from Esteli to suggest they can score. Tactics in the next game will be interesting. Can we play a good defensive minded game away from home?

[trane]

^ That would be the big question.

[Huyton]

Last night, from where I was stood in 114, I watched in horror as Kocic went walkabout and the defence DID NOT COVER him.

With Eckersly and Kocic looking after the danger, three defenders made the huge mistake that everything is going to be OK. They either slowed to a jog, or stopped running, only to speed up again after the howling error was made by Kosic.

As a result, Alesando Calero has the easiest of tasks, rather than being harassed by a couple of defenders and with a guy in goal ready to take a red card for the team.

It wasn't just Kocic who blew this one...the entire defence (with the exception of Eckersley) was culpable.

[Huyton]

Kocic stated that part of the problem was that he was sliding on wet grass and then hit a dry patch, whcih flipped him over.

WHY do the sprinklers come on at the half?

[jloome]

Sorry, gonna be the voice of negative reason today: that team was shit. We should've scored at least four. And that we gave up a goal to them is aggregious. FC Edmonton could pound the shit out of Real Esteli (as should we), and comparisons there are not apt.

Seriously, they were playing bunker ball. For a central american team, they had very little speed or guile. Ball movement was OK, but nothing special.

Seriously, shit, shit team. I don't think we can take many positives from that performance, because against that level of opponent it should've been a blowout.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Sorry, gonna be the voice of negative reason today: that team was shit. We should've scored at least four. And that we gave up a goal to them is aggregious. FC Edmonton could pound the shit out of Real Esteli (as should we), and comparisons there are not apt.

Seriously, they were playing bunker ball. For a central american team, they had very little speed or guile. Ball movement was OK, but nothing special.

Seriously, shit, shit team. I don't think we can take many positives from that performance, because against that level of opponent it should've been a blowout.

my sentiments exactly.
Im hoping we are slow starters.
We seemed to pick up speed when we scored some goals but overall looked pretty poor the first half.

Once again im rarely negative but last night was a disappointment, we should have blown them out of the water

[Ossington Mental Youth]

feel like we played better in KC (minus the obvious 20 mins of goals)

[ManUtd4ever]

Sorry, gonna be the voice of negative reason today: that team was shit. We should've scored at least four. And that we gave up a goal to them is aggregious. FC Edmonton could pound the shit out of Real Esteli (as should we), and comparisons there are not apt.

Seriously, they were playing bunker ball. For a central american team, they had very little speed or guile. Ball movement was OK, but nothing special.

Seriously, shit, shit team. I don't think we can take many positives from that performance, because against that level of opponent it should've been a blowout.

I don't disagree that TFC should have blown them out of the water. Despite the missed scoring opportunities though, TFC should be going into the second leg with a comfortable 2 goal advantage. Unfortunately, Kocic made a colossal blunder (which the team as a whole can't be faulted for) that puts an entirely different complexion on the upcoming match in Nicaragua.

[Detroit_TFC]

Nervous about the 2nd leg. The insane travel, shit pitch, diabolical refs, etc will be tough to overcome.

[trane]

Last night, from where I was stood in 114, I watched in horror as Kocic went walkabout and the defence DID NOT COVER him.

With Eckersly and Kocic looking after the danger, three defenders made the huge mistake that everything is going to be OK. They either slowed to a jog, or stopped running, only to speed up again after the howling error was made by Kosic.

As a result, Alesando Calero has the easiest of tasks, rather than being harassed by a couple of defenders and with a guy in goal ready to take a red card for the team.

It wasn't just Kocic who blew this one...the entire defence (with the exception of Eckersley) was culpable.


I agree with this, as a defender you should always be vigilant.

[ManUtd4ever]

This caption reminds me of the biblical story of David and Goliath...


http://www.torontofc.ca/sites/default/files/imagecache/primary_image-620x350/image_nodes/2011/07/TFCvREFCImg5.jpg

[Yohan]

Last night, from where I was stood in 114, I watched in horror as Kocic went walkabout and the defence DID NOT COVER him.

With Eckersly and Kocic looking after the danger, three defenders made the huge mistake that everything is going to be OK. They either slowed to a jog, or stopped running, only to speed up again after the howling error was made by Kosic.

As a result, Alesando Calero has the easiest of tasks, rather than being harassed by a couple of defenders and with a guy in goal ready to take a red card for the team.

It wasn't just Kocic who blew this one...the entire defence (with the exception of Eckersley) was culpable.
huh? i don't think any of the defenders expected Kocic to blow a routine play like that

[v00d00daddy]

When I played I was a keeper so I'm usually very sympathetic with keepers and their mistakes. I often go beyond giving them the benefit of the doubt, to point that I know I'm very often biased when talking about keepers.

So with that, I feel bad for Kocic on this play but there is nobody to blame but him. It was a routine play that he should have made.

It's not Winters fault for starting Kocic over Frei. Every keeper in every pro or semi pro league is comfortable making that play.

It's not Ecks fault. He gave Kocic every opportunity to collect that ball with minimum pressure based on the situation.

And it's certainly not the other defenders' fault for not covering off the net in that situation. Even if you do assume that the keeper is going to screw it up, you'd expect that he'd misplay it out for a corner or something....not right on to the foot of the attacking player.

It happens. I don't think it will come back to haunt us but if you're looking to lay blame just watch Kocic's post game interview.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/

[TFCRegina]

You have to score more than 2 goals on a team of Esteli's quality when playing at home. It's as simple as that.

This is what we get for starting a bunch of backups.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This is what we get for starting a bunch of backups.

There were maybe 3 reserve players, 4 if you include Zavarise (whos played a significant amount of games this season).
I wouldnt consider that 'a bunch of back ups'

I would say we didnt play as well as we could/should have

[Canary10]

For eff's sake, we won and had a crappy one in a million goal scored on us. We made it harder on ourselves, yes, but we won. We're set up fairly well for the return. Let's not crap all over them.

[trane]

When I played I was a keeper so I'm usually very sympathetic with keepers and their mistakes. I often go beyond giving them the benefit of the doubt, to point that I know I'm very often biased when talking about keepers.

So with that, I feel bad for Kocic on this play but there is nobody to blame but him. It was a routine play that he should have made.

It's not Winters fault for starting Kocic over Frei. Every keeper in every pro or semi pro league is comfortable making that play.

It's not Ecks fault. He gave Kocic every opportunity to collect that ball with minimum pressure based on the situation.

And it's certainly not the other defenders' fault for not covering off the net in that situation. Even if you do assume that the keeper is going to screw it up, you'd expect that he'd misplay it out for a corner or something....not right on to the foot of the attacking player.

It happens. I don't think it will come back to haunt us but if you're looking to lay blame just watch Kocic's post game interview.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/

OK it is not the fault of the other defenders, but they need to be more vigilant, shit happens, they need to look out for it. The natural thing would have been to stop running when he jumps of the ball, but you go to keep you eye on the play.

I have always played CB, and I am critical of CBs, as I am of myslef, because so much of what you do is mental, staying vigilent and reacting appropriately. I was pleased with the back line last night, and I do think the error was on the keeper, BUT they could have made it a harder shot for the Esteli player, had they been ontop of him as soon as he got control.

[Yohan]

There were maybe 3 reserve players, 4 if you include Zavarise (whos played a significant amount of games this season).
I wouldnt consider that 'a bunch of back ups'

I would say we didnt play as well as we could/should have
plus would you want to risk JDG and Dunfield who is just returning from injury?

[trane]

^ Yes. Why not? Do we have a more important game comming up. Obvioulsy it all depends on how match fit they were.

[ManUtd4ever]

This is what we get for starting a bunch of backups.

C'mon man, slight exaggeration?

Kocic started to allow Frei's inury to completely heal, and no one could have possibly aniticipated the outcome of that decision. I don't think Henry and Morgan could necessarily be considered downgrades based on the alternatives that were available at their positions. The only real question marks in the starting lineup were Zavarise and Stinson, and they were subbed off for Plata and JDG, which worked out rather well in the end.

[Huyton]

huh? i don't think any of the defenders expected Kocic to blow a routine play like that

That's the point...our defenders did not.

Good defenders won't take the chance.

By the time they reach this level, every single player will have seen bizarre goals, freak plays, and stupid mistakes.

A good player will ask themselves if there was anything they could do differently to change that outcome, and the answer will, almost always, have been "yes".

Goalkeeping mistakes happen at every level (England vs USA!USA! at the last world cup, anyone?).

There is a reason why Kocic is a backup...he's not good enough to start.

[Greatest Ripoff]

^ Yes. Why not? Do we have a more important game comming up. Obvioulsy it all depends on how match fit they were.

Yes we do, the return leg in less than a week.

[Canary10]

That's the point...our defenders did not.

Good defenders won't take the chance.

By the time they reach this level, every single player will have seen bizarre goals, freak plays, and stupid mistakes.

A good player will ask themselves if there was anything they could do differently to change that outcome, and the answer will, almost always, have been "yes".

Goalkeeping mistakes happen at every level (England vs USA!USA! at the last world cup, anyone?).

There is a reason why Kocic is a backup...he's not good enough to start.

Sorry, this is BS. Defenders don't and shouldn't be expected to run and back up the keeper on every routine ball. Huge waste of energy. This is one is fully on Kocic.

[TFCRegina]

There were maybe 3 reserve players, 4 if you include Zavarise (whos played a significant amount of games this season).
I wouldnt consider that 'a bunch of back ups'

I would say we didnt play as well as we could/should have

I would.

36% of the lineup is backups.

[Heathen]

For eff's sake, we won and had a crappy one in a million goal scored on us. We made it harder on ourselves, yes, but we won. We're set up fairly well for the return. Let's not crap all over them.

How did you work that out? all they need is a 1-0 win. Honestly it's sad how low our standards have dropped that a 2-1 win over Nicaraguan minnows is seen as a reason for celebrationg.

[Canary10]

How did you work that out? all they need is a 1-0 win. Honestly it's sad how low our standards have dropped that a 2-1 win over Nicaraguan minnows is seen as a reason for celebrationg.

A draw gets us through. Draws have been known to happen in football once in a while.

[ManUtd4ever]

How did you work that out? all they need is a 1-0 win. Honestly it's sad how low our standards have dropped that a 2-1 win over Nicaraguan minnows is seen as a reason for celebrationg.

Despite the disappointing scoreline, the fact remains that TFC is still set up fairly well for the return leg. Real Esteli has to win, and TFC only needs a draw to advance. Based on the manner in which TFC completely dominated them, I think that's a tall order for Real Esteli, home field adavantage or not. I don't think they can count on any more goals being gifted to them, unless the officials fuck us over.

[Heathen]

A draw gets us through. Draws have been known to happen in football once in a while.

Thanks for the patronizing, anyway 2-1 up in a two leg tie with the road leg to come and away goals counting double is a precarious position.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

especially in central america with refs that are well known for being dicks.

[PopePouri]

I guess we'll see.

[ManUtd4ever]

Actually, if we analyze it further, only a 1-0 victory (or better) for Real Esteli assures them advancement.

If I'm not mistaken...

0-0 draw, TFC advances
1-1 draw, TFC advances
2-1 win for Real Esteli, Extra time/penalty kicks
2-2 draw, TFC advances
3-2 win for Real Esteli, TFC advances

etc. etc. etc.

[Canary10]

Thanks for the patronizing, anyway 2-1 up in a two leg tie with the road leg to come and away goals counting double is a precarious position.

Yeah. 2-0 would have a been much better. But we're still in a decent position. They played very defensively. They'll be forced to open up in the next game which will open some more opportunities for us.

[Beach_Red]

Despite the disappointing scoreline, the fact remains that TFC is still set up fairly well for the return leg. Real Esteli has to win, and TFC only needs a draw to advance. Based on the manner in which TFC completely dominated them, I think that's a tall order for Real Esteli, home field adavantage or not. I don't think they can count on any more goals being gifted to them, unless the officials fuck us over.


Plata's first goal was a gift, too, relied on just as much a "lucky bounce" as theirs was.

But the real issue is that they were able to come up here and play the game they wanted to.

The best thing about last night was how pissed off Winter looked.

[Canary10]

Since we're all armchair tacticians, how do you approach the next game?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

with a handgun and a machete.
hack and shoot.

[ag futbol]

^ Well the real concerning thing IMO was that we had so much possession and we turned that into so few actual opportunities on net. The two headers by Johnson were our only attempts on goal at the half.

The team did a good job of retaining the ball but they were generally clueless when it came to what to do with it in the final third with the exception of Plata.

[Canary10]

They played with 10 men behind the ball. That's pretty hard to break down. Scoring two goals is pretty good. Esteli can't play that way next time out as they have to score to win. I'd like to see us press 75% of the pitch for the first 10 minutes and try to get that first goal. Then settle back, with the two wingers playing more of a defensive position. Almost a 4-5-1. Let them press and we counter.

[ManUtd4ever]

Plata's first goal was a gift, too, relied on just as much a "lucky bounce" as theirs was.

But the real issue is that they were able to come up here and play the game they wanted to.


How can you possibly compare Plata's first goal with Kocic's blunder? Seriously. Plata made a few deft moves in the box before forcing the ball across the line. He earned that goal.

The real issue is that they came up here and played the game they wanted to? They barely touched the ball. If that was their game plan, it was executed to perfection.

Beach, you often make astute observations, and yes, TFC should have blown them out, but no offence, this is an absolute load of horseshit.

[maninb]

Zavarise was bloody ATROCIOUS!!!! Hope we don't see him for a while...he plays like he's afraid of the ball...

[Pookie]

Actually, if we analyze it further, only a 1-0 victory (or better) for Real Esteli assures them advancement.

If I'm not mistaken...

0-0 draw, TFC advances
1-1 draw, TFC advances
2-1 win for Real Esteli, Extra time/penalty kicks
2-2 draw, TFC advances
3-2 win for Real Esteli, TFC advances

etc. etc. etc.

Stop with the logic, you'll ruin the agenda.

Toronto, while the greatest place in the world to ever play apparently, likes to eat its own because it makes some feel better about themselves.

We could win the MLS Cup 1-0 on penalty kicks and we'd still have someone complaining that they didn't dominate and offer that as "proof" next season is going to be rough.

[maninb]

Sorry, this is BS. Defenders don't and shouldn't be expected to run and back up the keeper on every routine ball. Huge waste of energy. This is one is fully on Kocic.

^Exactly.....anybody blaming our defenders has obviously never played at a very high level...
sheeesh...

[Heathen]

Stop with the logic, you'll ruin the agenda.

Toronto, while the greatest place in the world to ever play apparently, likes to eat its own because it makes some feel better about themselves.

We could win the MLS Cup 1-0 on penalty kicks and we'd still have someone complaining that they didn't dominate and offer that as "proof" next season is going to be rough.

So you're equating the achievement of winning the MLS Cup with beating a crap Nicaraguan team 2-1 at home in a two leg tie. Yes I'm the one with the agenda :rolleyes:

[Pookie]

^ It was a bit of an analogy used to describe the situation. Sometimes extreme examples help to elaborate on the point.

TFC wins and some are more concerned about the manner in which they won

[hajduksplit]

At least Kocic didn't pull a Paul Robinson.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

check my posts, im almost always positive. Just dont think we did as well as we should have this time and as a result we are in a deeper hole.

[Heathen]

^ It was a bit of an analogy used to describe the situation. Sometimes extreme examples help to elaborate on the point.

TFC wins and some are more concerned about the manner in which they won

Correction TFC haven't won anything yet, in effect it's only half-time and we're playing against the wind/slope. Last night's win will be irrelevant if we don't get through.

[werewolf]

For those of us that aren't new to Concacaf, no matter how much better we played yesterday, you can never feel safe going to central america with anything short of a multiple-goal lead.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For those of us that aren't new to Concacaf, no matter how much better we played yesterday, you can never feel safe going to central america with anything short of a multiple-goal lead.

a significant multiple goal lead

[Beach_Red]

^ It was a bit of an analogy used to describe the situation. Sometimes extreme examples help to elaborate on the point.

TFC wins and some are more concerned about the manner in which they won


TFC won the first game of a two-game series, so yes, people are worried about the way it happened.

And when TFC wins the next game against Real Esteli (1-0, but they won't score until the second half, driving us crazy) people will be worried about the group stages because the opposition will be better.

That's not an agenda, that's sports.

[ManUtd4ever]

TFC won the first game of a two-game series, so yes, people are worried about the way it happened.

And when TFC wins the next game against Real Esteli (1-0, but they won't score until the second half, driving us crazy) people will be worried about the group stages because the opposition will be better.

That's not an agenda, that's sports.

Fair enough, but if we're going to be critical of certain aspects of the club's performance, why can't we also commend certain aspects of their performance?

I agree with your sense of optimism BTW. If TFC loses against Real Esteli, it will require a meltdown of epic proportions, or corrupt officiating.

[ensco]

There are about 5 frequent posters (including at least one mod) who now seem to go after any criticism, as some sort of evidence of the inherently miserable nature of the personality of the poster.

These personal attacks are out of line. The level of criticism is higher because the team has been so terrible.

[backbeat]

From what I saw at the game yesterday:

TFC played very well - controlled the game - had many good chances on goal - their keeper stood on his head at times otherwise we would have been up by 4 or 5 and we gave away a blooper of a goal.

the result may suck to a degree but the solid play was there - and yes they were a 3rd rate team and yes we should have dominated as we did.

i also liked the tactics and the subs...

[Chevy]

TFC won the first game of a two-game series, so yes, people are worried about the way it happened.

And when TFC wins the next game against Real Esteli (1-0, but they won't score until the second half, driving us crazy) people will be worried about the group stages because the opposition will be better.

That's not an agenda, that's sports.


Wow, now we're preparing complaints and negativity regarding future victories. That's not an agenda, that's not sports, that simply bat-shit insane!

[eustacchio]

^ that's also the way these boards seem to work.

[Beach_Red]

Wow, now we're preparing complaints and negativity regarding future victories. That's not an agenda, that's not sports, that simply bat-shit insane!


Sorry, I forgot the smiley face ;).

It's like the famous Jewish telegram: "Start worrying. Letter to follow."

[ManUtd4ever]

There are about 5 frequent posters (including at least one mod) who now seem to go after any criticism, as some sort of evidence of the inherently miserable nature of the personality of the poster.

These personal attacks are out of line. The level of criticism is higher because the team has been so terrible.

I don't know if you consider me to be one of those 5 posters, but just in case you do feel that way, I have never shown any disrespect to you or anyone else I happen to disagree with on occasion by way of personal attacks.

In fairness, there are also a few posters who seem to go out of their way to discredit neutral or positive opinions presented by others.

As for the level of criticism being higher because of the team's abysmal record this season, I absolutely agree. It just seems that a segment of the board has become so jaded by the dysfunctional history of the franchise that they can't acknowledge a few positive signs as of late amidst the turmoil that we have been subjected to for the last 4 1/2 years.

[Beach_Red]

^ Well, it will be better when there's a longer run of success, no doubt. The thing is, there have been "a few positive signs" every year and there's always been negativity.

[Red CB Toronto]

It was great win and also that Ryan Johnson, Eddy Viator and Andy Iro all took time to sign my TFC photos after the game. I now have 100 of 103 players who have played at least one minute for the Reds in all competitions.

[Pookie]

There are about 5 frequent posters (including at least one mod) who now seem to go after any criticism, as some sort of evidence of the inherently miserable nature of the personality of the poster.

These personal attacks are out of line. The level of criticism is higher because the team has been so terrible.

I am responding to a general flavour of the posts that have dotted the pages prior to this one not any one in particular.

There is good and bad with the win. I highlighted the pending travel as a possible negative that will be hard to overcome. Others have looked at the 2-1 outcome.

That said, I do think that the comments with the words "shit" describing the performance are over the top and like newspapers, appear to be biased towards the negative.

[ensco]

I don't know if you consider me to be one of those 5 posters, but just in case you do feel that way, I have never shown any disrespect to you or anyone else I happen to disagree with on occasion by way of personal attacks.

In fairness, there are also a few posters who seem to go out of their way to discredit neutral or positive opinions presented by others.

As for the level of criticism being higher because of the team's abysmal record this season, I absolutely agree. It just seems that a segment of the board has become so jaded by the dysfunctional history of the franchise that they can't acknowledge a few positive signs as of late amidst the turmoil that we have been subjected to for the last 4 1/2 years.

Not you. But it's really coming on lately.

To your last point, truth to that. Eg those were beautiful goals by Plata. That free kick would have gone in against Man Untied.

[Pigfynn]

Not you. But it's really coming on lately.

To your last point, truth to that. Eg those were beautiful goals by Plata. That free kick would have gone in against Man Untied.

You see?

VZ2HcRl4wSk

[ensco]

You see?



Touche.

How's Iro looking to you, Pigfynn?

[Chevy]

It was great win and also that Ryan Johnson, Eddy Viator and Andy Iro all took time to sign my TFC photos after the game. I now have 100 of 103 players who have played at least one minute for the Reds in all competitions.

Holy crap, that's impressive. Who are you missing?

[menefreghista]

Holy crap, that's impressive. Who are you missing?

I guess Diaz Kambare, that scout we signed for one game and Rick Titus.

[Pigfynn]

Touche.

How's Iro looking to you, Pigfynn?

He's looking slow and pretty unsure when pressured. We NEED a CB to play along side of him that is much better with the ball. I do think he will be ok though and his size and positioning are assets.

Just not as any kind of answer on his own.

[brad]

That's the point...our defenders did not.

Good defenders won't take the chance.

By the time they reach this level, every single player will have seen bizarre goals, freak plays, and stupid mistakes.

A good player will ask themselves if there was anything they could do differently to change that outcome, and the answer will, almost always, have been "yes".

Goalkeeping mistakes happen at every level (England vs USA!USA! at the last world cup, anyone?).

There is a reason why Kocic is a backup...he's not good enough to start.

My take on it was that Ecks had the situation under control. He left the ball though instead of clearing it which implies that Kocic called him off. I don't see Ecks dallying on the ball in that situation for any other reason

[brad]

Since we're all armchair tacticians, how do you approach the next game?

I'd play a counter attacking 4-5-1. As you (I think mentioned) they need to open up and attack us. I'd pack the midfield to overcome our shoddy defense and look to hit them on the break. We would look to score a goal or two doing this though.

Unfortunately, we only have one tactic these days.

[brad]

For those of us that aren't new to Concacaf, no matter how much better we played yesterday, you can never feel safe going to central america with anything short of a multiple-goal lead.

This x100.

This is a tougher task than some make it out to be. To add my own concerns to this the very big one I quoted:


we are poor defensively
we have new players still learning to play together - chemistry in the back takes time
we are bad on the road
we have a history on not getting results on the road to in the CCL against teams we should comfortably beat
We have a long trip to get there and that takes a big toll
we only have two days rest between the Portland game and this one

That's not being negative or a downer. This is being realistic.

[brad]

It was great win and also that Ryan Johnson, Eddy Viator and Andy Iro all took time to sign my TFC photos after the game. I now have 100 of 103 players who have played at least one minute for the Reds in all competitions.

Who are you missing?

[Torontotonto]

Couldn't make it down last night, first game missed in I can't remember.

Thought TFC showed a lot of improvement last night even though the competion wasn't the greatest.

Real proud of my fellow RPB for the support everyone showed.

Weird being on the other end watching everybody instead of being in the thick of things. Could hear everyone singing the whole game very clear on my Laptop, and was singing along a home.

We will beat these guys at home next week...

And to close all I have to sing is Ole Ole Ole Ole...Plata Plata

:drum::flare::scarf::flare::drum:

[Thomas]

Plata's first goal was a gift, too, relied on just as much a "lucky bounce" as theirs was.

But the real issue is that they were able to come up here and play the game they wanted to.

The best thing about last night was how pissed off Winter looked.
The best thing about last night is that we won the game. About Plata's goal. I wouldn't characterize it as a gift, but at the end of the day, I'll take it however we get it.

[ensco]

He's looking slow and pretty unsure when pressured. We NEED a CB to play along side of him that is much better with the ball. I do think he will be ok though and his size and positioning are assets.

Just not as any kind of answer on his own.


That is true. I hope he'll be OK.

[Shakes McQueen]

If (when?) JDG is released at the end of this season, I'd be okay with seeing them split that cap room on a couple of above-average CB's. Or maybe even go the route of one stud CB.

Can't help but wonder if having a proven name back there would have the added benefit of calming the defenders around him, and giving them more on-field direction from someone that knows what they are doing.

Splitting that money on a couple of defenders would probably give us a clear upgrade over the guys we've got now, and give us good depth.

Of course, I have no idea who those signings would be. I suppose that's the hard part, haha.

- Scott

[117]

Does anyone know of anyone making the trip down for the game on Tuesday?

[Roogsy]

I've refrained from commenting because I don't volunteer opinions on games unless I see them myself, win or lose. This game I missed so I only caught the game in 6 minutes but I thought the team looked pretty good from what TFC showed. I dunno. I can't tell. But the 2nd goal from Platita was gorgeous.

Unfortunately, that away goal for "El Tren del Norte" is worrisome.

Remember, this is exactly the same position Vancouver found themselves in coming into BMO Field.

[DavydMT]

to see a winning result was good and also flags are good for you :)

XRAQwdPNUc0

[Greatest Ripoff]

Remember, this is exactly the same position Vancouver found themselves in coming into BMO Field.

If you are referring to the NCC, Vancouver came into Toronto with a 1-1 draw at home. Toronto will be going into Nicaragua with a 2-1 victory at home.

[Roogsy]

Shoot you're right. I think the away goal mixed me up for a moment.

[goodyear]

I guess Diaz Kambare, that scout we signed for one game and Rick Titus.
If your looking for Rick Titus's autograph he still plays for the York Region Shooters of the CSL. Also coaches youth soccer at North Mississauga Soccer Club.

[Whoop]

Shoot you're right. I think the away goal mixed me up for a moment.

And Vancouver went up 1-0 in Toronto forcing TFC to score 2 in the 2nd half.

[profit89]

Come on you REDS !!

[rocker]

i thoroughly enjoyed this game (except for the goal against!). I mean, I felt like TFC finally put into practice what Winter has been preaching. We saw the style that could be possible. Now, Real Esteli was very bad, but with a bit better luck on some headers, it coulda been a blowout (and we all know the final scorelines of games don't always reflect the run of play).

The goal against complicates things, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. The goal against provides a nice challenge for this team, particularly for the young players. It means they can't relax and end up have a Montreal-Impact-Santos-Laguna type meltdown surprise. If they pass the test, they'll only come out stronger.

Some random reflections:
1) the two CBs for Real Esteli look just a little bit taller than Plata! TFC had a massive size advantage at many positions. Even their tallest guy, the forward, was slightly shorter than Henry.
2) That Real Esteli free kick that went to the corner was hilarious... had a good laugh at that.
3) I was never worried RE would score... their offense was enemic. They only scored because of a pure fluke.
4) Their keeper tries to make simple saves look difficult. LOL.
5) Morgan's crosses were perhaps the best I've seen from our LBs this year
6) Can't say enough about Plata. He's the steal of the 2011 draft -- better performance already than all the third round guys above him and most of the second round guys drafted... i would say he's performed close to the first round picks.
7) Frings bossed the midfield in a way that I had hoped JDG would when we first got him -- his vision was fantastic
8) Soolsma didn't look slow because surprisingly, the RE players were pretty slow too.

[menefreghista]

On the attendance issue, Anselmi was on the FAN 590 yesterday to defend MLSE's petty lawsuit over the naming of Maple Leaf Gardens.

When asked about the low attendance, he blame the short sell time due to the NCC final being moved.

[Pookie]

^ I wish sometimes that they would let us guest host. How about last year's 10,000 and this year's 9,000 being something of a trend for CCL? And the tickets sold but unused for regular MLS matches?

[trane]

Sorry, this is BS. Defenders don't and shouldn't be expected to run and back up the keeper on every routine ball. Huge waste of energy. This is one is fully on Kocic.

^ No. But they should stay vigilant untill they see that the ball is in fact safe.

But again I do not think that they are to blame for the fuck up an goal, but the defenders shuold be aware of what is happening with the ball and were attacking player ect, are. Our are not always on the ball, every season I see a gola against us like that, were the ball just gets loss in our box, and multiple TFC players stand around while the opposition pounce on it. This was to deep in and behind the defenders, but idealy some of them are able to run back and pressure the shooter.

[ensco]

When asked about the low attendance, he blame the short sell time due to the NCC final being moved.

I didn't hear it, but this is classic Anselmi on the Fan when it comes to TFC. He's done this before. He says any nosestretcher he feels like to McCown, because McCown has no knowledge/ability to contradict.

[Phil]

It is somewhat legit that the late finish with the Vancouver game impacted ticket sales.

If that game finished that stormy Wednesday evening then there would have been much more time to ramp up and advertise the game. As it stood we risked not having that game at all pending results.

The thing that I think caught most people off guard was the low seasons ticket renewal rate. It was confusing, I don't regret asking for that ticket to be taken out of the upfront payment but I almost missed the deadline without knowing it as did many of the guys that sit around me.

[menefreghista]

The thing that I think caught most people off guard was the low seasons ticket renewal rate. It was confusing, I don't regret asking for that ticket to be taken out of the upfront payment but I almost missed the deadline without knowing it as did many of the guys that sit around me.

The FO is pretty awful at communicating with its season ticket base and waiting listers.


I didn't hear it, but this is classic Anselmi on the Fan when it comes to TFC. He's done this before. He says any nosestretcher he feels like to McCown, because McCown has no knowledge/ability to contradict.

I like McCown, but he is often too chummy with Anselmi.

[Phil]

Yup, the FO are not very consistant to say the least.

Seeing the amount of transition going on, it makes sense. They need to have a little more of a defined protocol when it comes to communication on all fronts in my opinion.

[ensco]

It is somewhat legit that the late finish with the Vancouver game impacted ticket sales.

If that game finished that stormy Wednesday evening then there would have been much more time to ramp up and advertise the game. As it stood we risked not having that game at all pending results.


No amount of advertising, or working the phones by the reps, would have made up for the fact that there is almost no market at the prices they were charging, for a very poorly-performing team, playing Concacaf minnows, in an early stage game.

[Phil]

No amount of advertising, or working the phones by the reps, would have made up for the fact that there is almost no market at the prices they were charging, for a very poorly-performing team, playing Concacaf minnows, in an early stage game.

I can't argue that the pricing outside the south end was pretty bad. Hopefully it will be noticed.

I still can't complain about the $34 price tag for my two seats. $80 + for a single is steep.

[ManUtd4ever]

As others have suggested, the casual fan base doesn't gravitate to the CCL matches as much as the supporters groups. If MLSE wants to attract sizeable crowds for these matches, the price point should be $15.00-$30.00 throughout the stadium.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Were the prices really that bad? I paid $22 each for tickets in 105. That is $15.50 cheaper than what it cost to get a seat in the same section for an MLS match.

[spark]

Were the prices really that bad? I paid $22 each for tickets in 105. That is $15.50 cheaper than what it cost to get a seat in the same section for an MLS match.

I missed the window to buy my season ticket (also in 105 top half) - I think when it was all said and done the ticket cost $38.

[Greatest Ripoff]

Oh, was there two prices for the tickets? I just contacted my ticket rep when I got the call from Koevermans.

[PopePouri]

Can't the FO has some leeway on prices especially for what only be considered as bonus games. If the game was 15-20 dollars I would have purchased a ticket.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

we had total ball control in this game... a little more better finishing and ths came could of been 3 maybe 4-0...

NO doubt we can g down there and get a result....Frings has been amazing so far...te more games he gets in....the better he will get...his organization in the midfield is sweet to watch....if we can get to the group stages..i think we can make some noise...i seriously do!

[CayMack]

By the way, anyone have the announced attendance for this game?

An embarrassing 9241.

The only benefit was I was able to snag some tickets in the south end - a refreshing change from my season seats in 220.

[CayMack]

Was shouting shoot from the top of 115 at that moment, my only guess is he is still not used to being an offensive midfielder. That was as open a look as I've ever seen anyone have and for a player of Frings caliber to pass up the shot just shows a level of comfort that he hasn't reached yet apparently.

I was in the middle of 115, looking straight across the top corner of the net at Frings, thinking "put that ball on a rope now". So much time and space, and a clear look at goal...

[Chevy]

An embarrassing 9241.

The only benefit was I was able to snag some tickets in the south end - a refreshing change from my season seats in 220.

This is a very low number - for TFC.

For many competitions of this nature, attendance for early round games is quite poor. Some US Open first round matches get less than 2,000 fans and some FINAL matches were well under 10k.

[Pachuco]

I think pricing is one thing....but I can tell you the only thing that would have gotten me out of my house to watch the game at BMO would have been a free ticket. I'm insulted that they charge season seat holders for these tickets, considering at one point they were included in the package. At the prices I paid this year for seasons tickets, I would've expected this game for free.

Buying seasons hurts enough with the amount of money it costs in my dark grey section, so I'm done paying for extra games. In fact, I'm done buying seasons anyway so this will be irrelevant to me next year.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

These CCL games are a chance for team exposer..getting fans out that that can't afford ganes familys ect...seeing the empty seats in the middle of the park is discusting..the prices for this area is embarrasing... These seats should be priced at 40.00 for such games..there not apart of the season package...so make them affordable..and get them filled..

[Dkolish3]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/07/29/sp-mls-tfc-eckersley.html?ref=rss

Eckersley keen to stay at TFC



What’s his preference? The English youngster leaves no doubts that he wants to remain at the MLS club and continue his development under Dutch coach Aron Winter.
“Toronto has shown all the eagerness to play me, and have given me this [opportunity] and allowed me to try to be an influence,” Eckersley told CBCSports.ca ahead of TFC’s Saturday road game against the Portland Timbers.
“I love it here in Toronto. I love everything about it: the club, the staff and the fans. I love playing for Aron because he lets us go and expresses ourselves on the field, which is massively important for a footballer. I enjoy it here.”


Eckersley said Burnley has not contacted him since coming to Toronto. Nor has he had any formal talks with TFC management about his future after his loan deal expires.
“Nobody has said anything. I think we’re just taking it a game at a time and then seeing where it goes from there. I’ve got over 18 months left on my contract with Burnley. It’s not worked out there, but we’ll see how it goes,” he said.
Eckerlsey admitted he was disappointed that Burnley has not kept in touch with him.
“Obviously, it’s out of sight and out of mind. It’s very strange,” he said.



Interesting. Very Interesting

[bgnewf]

TFC vs Real Esteli - Post Game Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/07/real-esteli/

In this post game video blog I take a look back at the game on Wednesday evening that saw Toronto FC defeat Real Esteli 2-1 in CONCACAF Champions League Qualification. I also take a look at the precious goal conceded and I heap blame for it on coach Aron Winter and not goalkeeper Milos Kocic (but not for the reason you might think). And I take a look at the most recent trades for the club that see one player leave and two newcomers arrive. I also tee up the game in Portland on the weekend and what kind of interesting travel the club has in front of itself to actually get from Oregon to the stadium in Nicaragua for the critical match next week.

[v00d00daddy]

TFC vs Real Esteli - Post Game Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/07/real-esteli/

In this post game video blog I take a look back at the game on Wednesday evening that saw Toronto FC defeat Real Esteli 2-1 in CONCACAF Champions League Qualification. I also take a look at the precious goal conceded and I heap blame for it on coach Aron Winter and not goalkeeper Milos Kocic (but not for the reason you might think). And I take a look at the most recent trades for the club that see one player leave and two newcomers arrive. I also tee up the game in Portland on the weekend and what kind of interesting travel the club has in front of itself to actually get from Oregon to the stadium in Nicaragua for the critical match next week.

Watched the vlog and I think your assessment of the Real Esteli away goal is, frankly, out to lunch.

Kocic could go 5 years of no competitive matches and he still makes that play properly 99 times out of 100. That's how routine a play that was. Honestly, I can confidently say I wouldn't have made that mistake.

I agree with you that kocic shouldn't be thrown under the bus but thats not what's happening here. He made a mistake and it happens. Hopefully TFC will play well enough in Nicaragua that it won't matter.

I said this before but if you wanna know who was to blame for the goal just watch Kocic's post game interview.

Blaming Winter (or anyone else for that matter) for that goal is just an attempt to over analyse things.

[Shakes McQueen]

Yeah, it was a simple mistake that is purely on Kocic, and nothing else. That doesn't mean he needs to be shipped to Siberia or anything - mistakes happen - but there's no doubt whose fault that goal was, and Kocic knows it.

It's a shame, because that one massive individual error marred an otherwise stellar game for us.

- Scott

[Borga]

Shakes, come on man, read the thread, the game was obviously a horrible failure for the team.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

no but we could have done better and as a result we will have to work hard not to get fucked in Nicaragua

[jazzy]

We gather around Kocic and grow as a team....This will strengthen us