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View Full Version : Could the current squad beat the Expansion TFC?



Toronto_Bhoy
07-24-2011, 08:41 PM
Who would win?

The squad of Sutton, Brennan, Wynne, Robinson, Edu, O'Brien and Dichio or the XI that played Saturday in KC?

Pick one.

Shakes McQueen
07-24-2011, 08:43 PM
The squad from yesterday, handily. How many minutes was it before we scored the first goal in club history, again?

- Scott

Whoop
07-24-2011, 08:49 PM
Wasn't the midseason goal scoring slump even longer? Until Canizalez scored against Columbus?

ensco
07-24-2011, 08:50 PM
The team from May-June 2007, once Dichio, Marshall and Wynne were in, and the rest had a few games to gel (funny to recall that it took only take a few games, hmmm, ahhh forget it), but before injuries forced Braz, Reda, Lombardo, Canizalez, Pozniak and others into starting roles, would beat this team, and may be the TFC best team ever. The 2009 team might have been better. But only just.

swan
07-24-2011, 08:50 PM
i would like to take a mix of both to tell ya the truth

Darlofletch
07-24-2011, 09:07 PM
2007 30 games 25 goals, 49 goals against
2011 23 games 19 goals, 41 goals against.

lots of factors to bring into consideration, overall, I think I'd take 2011. probably. just.

Cashcleaner
07-24-2011, 09:07 PM
2007 Expansion team. Sorry, I'm just going by the stats here.

TFC may have ended its inaugural season dead last with 25 points and a 6-17-7 record, but we had 25 goals for and 49 against at the end of the season compared to our current 19 for and 41 against with 11 games still to go.

If our current trend continues, we are on track to have the worst season ever, even if the league standings don't necessarily reflect that.

That said, I think Swan is right in that we'd have a good mix if we had some players from 2007 on the pitch with the current team.

swan
07-24-2011, 09:10 PM
i like being right.. lol

Toronto_Bhoy
07-24-2011, 09:11 PM
The squad from yesterday, handily. How many minutes was it before we scored the first goal in club history, again?

- Scott

Handily?

In 2007 TFC played 30 games. This season there's 34, so the following numbers are based on the first 30 games of this season in order to compare the two.

TFC gave up 49 goals in total during the 2007 campaign and already this year we've given up 41…that would mean we'd only give 7 goals up in the next 12 games.

Toronto's goal difference to date is just two (-22) better than 2007 (-24)…do you think from this point on TFC will score 2 more than we conceded?

In 2007 TFC lost 17 games, we've already lost 11, do think we'll lose less than 6 in the next 12?

Just throwing it out there…

Keyman
07-24-2011, 09:11 PM
One team couldn't score, one team can't defend. The game would either be incredibly exciting, or frustratingly boring.

ensco
07-24-2011, 09:13 PM
^Amazing to think that we are on track to concede 60 or 65 goals, and we only gave up 49 with Braz, Reda and Boyens getting tons of minutes, and a joke of a revolving door happening at GK (Monsalve, Reynolds, Stama).

Keyman
07-24-2011, 09:18 PM
Maybe when you get a lot of untalented defenders together, but they stay together for an extended period of time, they perform better than defenders who definitely have more talent, but don't have the benefit of knowing each other's tendencies.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-24-2011, 09:18 PM
That said, I think Swan is right in that we'd have a good mix if we had some players from 2007 on the pitch with the current team.

Like some "heart and soul"?

kodiakTFC
07-24-2011, 09:22 PM
2011 could crush 2007, I don't think many of you recognize or will admit how far MLS has come in five years.

TFC USA
07-24-2011, 09:23 PM
The recent DP signings give the nod to 2011.

Pre-DP signings I say 2007 eeks out a 1-0 win through Dichio.

Pachuco
07-24-2011, 09:27 PM
On paper 2011. Reality, 2007 team had their moments and this 2011 team hasn't had one yet.

canadian_bhoy
07-24-2011, 09:27 PM
Only the recent DP signings save 2011 TFC on this one.

Having said that, with the defence we have - anything is possible.

There was a certain magic to the 2007 team. Way more heart than we have now.

ensco
07-24-2011, 09:41 PM
2011 could crush 2007, I don't think many of you recognize or will admit how far MLS has come in five years.

Most everyone would agree with that. Most teams are a lot better. Only 1 or 2 (us and maybe NE) are arguably worse.

[NBF]
07-24-2011, 09:43 PM
4-4-2: MoJo Team

------------------------Stamatopolous----------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
Wynne---------Marshall---------------Boyens-----Dunivant
--------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------Koevermans-----------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
Santos-----------------------------------------------Martina
--------------------------------------------------------------
O'Brien---------Robinson--------------Edu---------Brennan
--------------------------------------------------------------
----------------Johnson-----------DeGuzman---------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
---------------Dichio--------------Cunningham--------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------Frings-----------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
Yourassowsky----Iro--------------Williams-------Eckersley
--------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------Frei------------------------------

4-3-3: Winter's Team

Its a tough matchup for sure, but I think the tough defense on the wings for MoJo's team would negate the talent of Winter's team. Also, because the large gap between Martina and Eckersley or Santos and Yourassowsky along the wings the MoJo team would be able to provide plenty of crosses to Dichio playing 1 vs 1 with Iro. Cunningham on the other hand would struggle with Frings and Williams closing him down. The only positive for the Winter team would be the fact that they could stop the play through the middle with Frings as a Defensive Midfielder and DeGuzman pace and experience vs rookie Edu. Koevermans would find it hard to get any crosses into the box with the wide game taken away by the MoJo's team, and would find it hard to get anything through to him through the middle of the pitch because MoJo's team is playing compact with Robinson and Edu in front of the two centre backs.

Final Result after 90 mins: MoJo team 1:1 Winter team

69Chevy396
07-24-2011, 10:08 PM
2007 wins 2-0 Driven by enthusiasm, excitement, and grit. The current team lacks all of this.

Shakes McQueen
07-24-2011, 10:13 PM
2011 could crush 2007, I don't think many of you recognize or will admit how far MLS has come in five years.

Yep, this was part of my calculation. The league has improved vastly since TFC entered the league. 2007 TFC couldn't score against other 2007 MLS teams for hundreds and hundreds of minutes at a time.

And I suspect anyone talking about magic or heart in the 2007 team is thinking more with their own heart than their brain.

- Scott

nickio
07-24-2011, 10:22 PM
If anyone would look at the roster we have now in 2007- it looks like a great team on paper. With JDG and Frings in the middle, a ManU raised fullback, and a PSV Striker- it's hard to say we lack quality. The problem is that huge difference between our BEST and HARDEN... I mean WORST.

69Chevy396
07-24-2011, 10:39 PM
Uruguay wins the copa, and were amazing during the world cup. On paper this should never have happened. Soccer is a team game, the 2007 club was a better team than this current hopelessly squad. They may have had trouble scoring but at least the 2007 club could string more than 2 passes at a time.

T.O TILL I DIE
07-24-2011, 11:18 PM
i miss the 07 team such great memories, and every TFC fan who supported toronto since day 1 knows what i mean by those great memories.

rocker
07-24-2011, 11:27 PM
somebody should simulate this on FIFA.. haha.

J .
07-24-2011, 11:41 PM
I think the original team would win. The current squad has talent, but plays pretty poorly.

ag futbol
07-24-2011, 11:45 PM
I think post-DP signings the 2011 squad has the edge.

Before those signings, I think 2007 (mid-season, not start) takes it. I'm not one to normally point to grit, but we've seen this squad lay down a few too many times while the 2007 squad simply had more character.

Thinking about this is kind of sad actually, if for no other reason than it seemed like the 2007 team really played for the fans despite their obvious shortcomings.

ochos
07-25-2011, 04:55 AM
2011 could crush 2007, I don't think many of you recognize or will admit how far MLS has come in five years.

This

Fort York Redcoat
07-25-2011, 05:50 AM
2011.


but this is not a game I would want to watch.

Mikey
07-25-2011, 06:06 AM
i would like to take a mix of both to tell ya the truth

Unfortunately with our current management team we would end up with the worst of both......:facepalm:

Oldtimer
07-25-2011, 06:57 AM
Our squad prior to the DPs coming in was very poor. It's hard to say what they will be like once there is game-fitness and the team melds. I think they probably currently are better than our 2007 side.

Our 2007 team was terrible, just terrible. However, the league was much easier at that time, and there were a lot of bad teams, so it wasn't as obvious, even with the long goal-less streak.

Our 2009 team was the best ever, at least as far as their record. They really should have made the playoffs.

Oblio2
07-25-2011, 07:37 AM
2007 Team...they had Heart.

canadian_bhoy
07-25-2011, 07:54 AM
Either way, Tfc would win. So that's a rare bonus!

Cashcleaner
07-25-2011, 08:29 AM
Shakes and others make a good point about the overall level of quality here in MLS being higher than previous seasons, but I don't think a good argument can be made that we have been elevated all that much along with the rest of the league. This isn't heart or nostalgia talking, this is what the data suggests.

Again, let's not look so much at our wins and loses, but goals scored for and against and the larger picture of our offence and defence. Our goal differential in 2007 was -24 at the end of the the season and we are currently -22 with 11 games left to play.

In 2007 we lost 4 games by a margin of 3 goals or more, and currently things are the same (4 games lost by 3+ goals). Our worst defeat in 2007 was a loss of 4-0 to New England while this year we've been beaten by 5 goals to none against New York.

Our best victory in 2007 was a 4-0 win over Dallas, while the game against the Timbers this year was the only time we won by a margin of more than a single goal 2-0 against Portland. That means our best game so far in 2011 was a 2-0 win at home against an expansion side playing their second MLS match.

Sure, a great argument can be made that MLS as a league is much stronger now than it was in 2007, but I don't think Toronto is. Furthermore, while our level of talent may have marginally increased, few would argue that the club played more cohesively in 2007. This year we may have a few more players with a higher level of skill. but J. summed it up really well - we have more individual talent, but the squad plays poorly.

v00d00daddy
07-25-2011, 08:38 AM
Yep, this was part of my calculation. The league has improved vastly since TFC entered the league. 2007 TFC couldn't score against other 2007 MLS teams for hundreds and hundreds of minutes at a time.

And I suspect anyone talking about magic or heart in the 2007 team is thinking more with their own heart than their brain.

- Scott

Bang on.

Looking at statistics from 2007 just clouds the fact that we were horrible then. Didn't they go something like 10 games without a goal?

Ben - D.O.W.
07-25-2011, 08:45 AM
Am I the only one who things it's pretty sad that no one on this team needs to make the choice between playing for the 2007 and 2011 sides since we haven't managed to keep anyone that long?

edit: also my choice is for 2011, although if we're taking midseason 2007 I think it should be 2011 in a couple of games.

Cashcleaner
07-25-2011, 08:53 AM
Oh, and one more thing...

What was the Number-1-universally-agreed-upon-super-consensus as to why we did rack up a number of losses back in 2007?

Anyone?

Bueller?

The answer is INJURIES.

Remember, injuries plagued us in 2007. Who knows, but it's likely that a healthier squad back then would have picked up a few more wins or converted some losses to draws.

And I bet some are thinking in the back of their minds that a few injuries this year might actually increase our fortunes...

Oldtimer
07-25-2011, 08:56 AM
Losing Ronnie O' and DD removed most of our firepower.

Injuries also are a big factor this year. Where is Paul Winsper when you need him?

Gazza_55
07-25-2011, 09:07 AM
Shakes and others make a good point about the overall level of quality here in MLS being higher than previous seasons, but I don't think a good argument can be made that we have been elevated all that much along with the rest of the league. This isn't heart or nostalgia talking, this is what the data suggests.

Again, let's not look so much at our wins and loses, but goals scored for and against and the larger picture of our offence and defence. Our goal differential in 2007 was -24 at the end of the the season and we are currently -22 with 11 games left to play.

In 2007 we lost 4 games by a margin of 3 goals or more, and currently things are the same (4 games lost by 3+ goals). Our worst defeat in 2007 was a loss of 4-0 to New England while this year we've been beaten by 5 goals to none against New York.

Our best victory in 2007 was a 4-0 win over Dallas, while the game against the Timbers this year was the only time we won by a margin of more than a single goal 2-0 against Portland. That means our best game so far in 2011 was a 2-0 win at home against an expansion side playing their second MLS match.

Sure, a great argument can be made that MLS as a league is much stronger now than it was in 2007, but I don't think Toronto is. Furthermore, while our level of talent may have marginally increased, few would argue that the club played more cohesively in 2007. This year we may have a few more players with a higher level of skill. but J. summed it up really well - we have more individual talent, but the squad plays poorly.

I don't think you understand what Shakes is saying. Data doesn't mean anything if the rest of the league is miles better. Seattle wasn't in the league. Either was Philly. The top teams from 2007 aren't even close to the top clubs now. NY of 2011 would take NE of 2007 to the woodshed.

All the stats comparing our goal differential would be akin to putting West Ham United's -27 goal differential from 2010-11 Premier League Season up against their GD in the upcoming 2011-12 English Championship.

Cashcleaner
07-25-2011, 09:18 AM
I don't think you understand what Shakes is saying. Data doesn't mean anything if the rest of the league is miles better. Seattle wasn't in the league. Either was Philly. The top teams from 2007 aren't even close to the top clubs now. NY of 2011 would take NE of 2007 to the woodshed.

All the stats comparing our goal differential would be akin to putting West Ham United's -27 goal differential from 2010-11 Premier League Season up against their GD in the upcoming 2011-12 English Championship.

^ You're right in that it's not a precise science and you couldn't just arbitrarily take the stats from now and then and come up with a definite conclusion, but I think they do play some part in the argument, even if the field has shifted. Again, as myself and others noted, TFC in 2007 played more cohesively. In 2011, not so much. We also had a more positive and winning attitude back then. Now club morale is fairly low - possibly the worst ever.

I didn't want to to give the impression that numbers mean everything, because as you pointed out - it's a lot more complicated than that, but there are several intangible issues at play here as well. They just influenced my decision the most, but you make a good point to suggest that they shouldn't.

brad
07-25-2011, 09:19 AM
Am I the only one who things it's pretty sad that no one on this team needs to make the choice between playing for the 2007 and 2011 sides since we haven't managed to keep anyone that long?

edit: also my choice is for 2011, although if we're taking midseason 2007 I think it should be 2011 in a couple of games.

5 years is a long time, so not for me. The only thing I'm sad about is that we are at a point 5 years in where this topic even merits discussion.

ManUtd4ever
07-25-2011, 09:20 AM
If our current roster was healthy, TFC 2011 would squash TFC 2007 like a grapefruit.

Roogsy
07-25-2011, 09:24 AM
Shakes and others make a good point about the overall level of quality here in MLS being higher than previous seasons, but I don't think a good argument can be made that we have been elevated all that much along with the rest of the league. This isn't heart or nostalgia talking, this is what the data suggests.

Again, let's not look so much at our wins and loses, but goals scored for and against and the larger picture of our offence and defence. Our goal differential in 2007 was -24 at the end of the the season and we are currently -22 with 11 games left to play.

In 2007 we lost 4 games by a margin of 3 goals or more, and currently things are the same (4 games lost by 3+ goals). Our worst defeat in 2007 was a loss of 4-0 to New England while this year we've been beaten by 5 goals to none against New York.

Our best victory in 2007 was a 4-0 win over Dallas, while the game against the Timbers this year was the only time we won by a margin of more than a single goal 2-0 against Portland. That means our best game so far in 2011 was a 2-0 win at home against an expansion side playing their second MLS match.

Sure, a great argument can be made that MLS as a league is much stronger now than it was in 2007, but I don't think Toronto is. Furthermore, while our level of talent may have marginally increased, few would argue that the club played more cohesively in 2007. This year we may have a few more players with a higher level of skill. but J. summed it up really well - we have more individual talent, but the squad plays poorly.

Hard to argue this.

Whoop
07-25-2011, 09:30 AM
So was Mo a better coach than Winter?

:jaw:

Cashcleaner
07-25-2011, 09:35 AM
^ I straight-up absolutely refuse to answer that question.

Roogsy
07-25-2011, 09:37 AM
So was Mo a better coach than Winter?

:jaw:
Funny that question. I think until the players eventually lost trust in him (over his shady dealings) but until that happened, Mo was definitely a better motivator than Winter. We also had a leader in Danny Dichio. 2011's team lacked a leader until Frings showed up.

Whoop
07-25-2011, 09:40 AM
You could probably argue that if Mo was the coach and someone else was the GM, Mo might have still been around.

Beach_Red
07-25-2011, 09:50 AM
You could probably argue that if Mo was the coach and someone else was the GM, Mo might have still been around.


It was pretty clear at the end of the first season (when the assistants went back to the US) that the team needed a better (or bigger) FO but it limped along without making any significant investment in management.

trane
07-25-2011, 09:53 AM
^ I am not sure if Mo was a better coach, but I do think that when we played with Dichio helthy, we played a simpler game, through him which kept us better orgnized going forward and keeping shape, which made us more solidly defensively.

But when Dichio was not on, (helped by O'Briean, Edu, Robbo, and Brennan was solid that year) we were shit, total shit.

This is a better team, I think we even play better, but the 2007 team in mid-season form with the starters healthy could grind out points, and get goals in games. Again Dichio was the big factor.

Having said all of that I need to see a couple of more games with the current roster to realy judge.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-25-2011, 09:53 AM
If our current roster was healthy, TFC 2011 would squash TFC 2007 like a grapefruit.

While I don't disagree with a lot of what's being discussed here, from both sides, I do find one thing amusing.

The terms "crush" and "squash" are being thrown around by some. The fact is, there is no evidence to suggest that this current squad has the ability to inflict a beating on anyone…past or present…simply because we can't keep the ball out of our net.

One thing I do believe is I'd take the 2007 TFC back line over the current mess we have. I think we have the best young goalkeeper in the league, yet the 2011 edition will give up, significantly more goals than a revolving door of sub par netminders from our inaugural season.

The improvement of the MLS doesn't change the fact that the defense we throw out every week is the poorest this franchise has ever had.

trane
07-25-2011, 09:59 AM
^ This has been my biggest complaint since day one, and yet in year four we are still shit.

profit89
07-25-2011, 10:06 AM
2011 easily.

Couchy81
07-25-2011, 10:59 AM
2007 mid-season vs. the mess we have right now? 2007. By the end of the season depending on how the new signings gel with the rest of the team, I'd hope 2011 takes it.

v00d00daddy
07-25-2011, 11:28 AM
For those of you comparing mid season TFC of 2007 to today's TFC:

Starting July 15th, 2007 TFC went scoreless until Sept 22nd.

They didnt win again until October!

Not that stats mean much but I think the current anger with the team is causing people to forget how terrible we were.

trane
07-25-2011, 11:34 AM
^ Correct me if I am wrong was that not the period in which Dichio and others were injured??

Do not get me wrong I think that the current roster is better on paper and is better technicaly as a whole. I just think that squad with all its components was more ready to compete.

Whoop
07-25-2011, 11:43 AM
For those of you comparing mid season TFC of 2007 to today's TFC:

Starting July 15th, 2007 TFC went scoreless until Sept 22nd.

They didnt win again until October!

Not that stats mean much but I think the current anger with the team is causing people to forget how terrible we were.

You could argue this stretch is just as bad with 1 win in 14 matches.

v00d00daddy
07-25-2011, 11:50 AM
^ Correct me if I am wrong was that not the period in which Dichio and others were injured??

Do not get me wrong I think that the current roster is better on paper and is better technicaly as a whole. I just think that squad with all its components was more ready to compete.

Yeah...Probably was when their were injuries.

There are injuries today too.

Not to say that the back four would be good but wouldn't
----Eck-------Cann-----Williams-----youras-------
Look better than what we have now?

Injuries happen.

I think the 2007 version of TFC would get mangled in 2011 worse than we are now.

hodgkiss
07-25-2011, 11:52 AM
i tell ya... one thing the 2007 team had was heart. as little skill as they might have had collectively, they always left everything on the pitch. remember brennan's broken arm, ribs etc? they gave it their all.

today... there is no doubt in my mind that we are playing a better "system" more attractive football when it comes to build up etc. but what appears to me to be a lack of heart drives me a little crazy.

i'm not sure if it's the canadian content? or the simple fact that the players we have to fill the roles we require just aren't heart type guys but there is a difference.

and there are a few players on this current team that have heart - starting with frei. but not like a collective that it once was.

v00d00daddy
07-25-2011, 11:53 AM
You could argue this stretch is just as bad with 1 win in 14 matches.

You could but that's not what we're talking about.

Would 1 win in 14 TFC of 2011 beat no goals in 10 game TFC of 2007?

Who the hell knows but I think 2011 is way better.

Torontotonto
07-25-2011, 12:01 PM
i miss the 07 team such great memories, and every TFC fan who supported toronto since day 1 knows what i mean by those great memories.

Totally Agree

Torontotonto
07-25-2011, 12:03 PM
For those of you comparing mid season TFC of 2007 to today's TFC:

Starting July 15th, 2007 TFC went scoreless until Sept 22nd.

They didnt win again until October!

Not that stats mean much but I think the current anger with the team is causing people to forget how terrible we were.

I could live with that then, but FIVE years later...

Thomas
07-25-2011, 01:34 PM
I know that this is subjective in nature, but I think that the overall quality and general play is higher now than in 2007...therefore the 'what if' comparison is very difficult to try and play out

Canary10
07-25-2011, 02:05 PM
I went to six games that year and didn't see TFC score a goal.

Brooker
07-25-2011, 06:09 PM
good grief, we'd wipe the floor with the 2007 squad.

the real question is, who would you cheer for? :)

trane
07-26-2011, 09:30 AM
^ The only team we came even close to wipeing the floor was Edmonton. I would say that a TFC with Dichio, Robbo, O'Brien, Sutton, Brennan ( his best year), Edu is better then Edmonton.

menefreghista
07-26-2011, 10:15 AM
^ The only team we came even close to wipeing the floor was Edmonton.

And that was only after they went down to 10 men....

trane
07-26-2011, 10:36 AM
^ Yeah, exactly.

I to believe that this squad is better, on paper, but they have something missing, and the defensive lapses are the same as ever.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-26-2011, 10:45 AM
^^ This current back line couldn't wipe the floor with industrial mops without missing half of it.

trane
07-26-2011, 11:11 AM
^ Exatamundo.

eagles8
07-26-2011, 07:31 PM
Curiously, both sides would lose.

WinterWarrior
07-26-2011, 09:33 PM
Curiously, both sides would lose.

LOL they would as well, and the referee would be to blame.

TFC OZZ
07-26-2011, 10:56 PM
I'm definitely going with the current squad. I think that the term "heart" is being thrown around far too often here. It seems like people are basing their decision solely on the fact that we had a core group of guys with great leadership abilities, even though they didn't produce a great deal on the field back in 2007. As far as I'm concerned, many people simply can't accept the team under any circumstances (which is a fair position with the way we've been treated). Personally, I'm not a guy who's just going to look at the stats and base my decision on that, I'm going to make it based on what I've seen since day one. This club is better than it was, no question in my mind.

brad
07-26-2011, 11:10 PM
I went to six games that year and didn't see TFC score a goal.

We are up to 5 home games without scoring this season, and we still have a ways to go...

Cashcleaner
07-27-2011, 06:59 AM
^ Yeah, exactly.

I to believe that this squad is better, on paper, but they have something missing, and the defensive lapses are the same as ever.

Or possibly the worst we've seen. I certainly think so at times.

trane
07-27-2011, 09:57 AM
^ I was trying to be slightly possitive. ahahahha.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-27-2011, 11:49 AM
Tale of two seasons!

There continues to be chatter here about how woeful the 2007 TFC offense was, which is impossible to argue but look at this...

After 23 games played:

W GF GA GD
5 18 37 -19 2007
3 19 41 -22 2011

The 2011 TFC has given up more goals, has a worse goal difference, has 2 fewer wins and more shockingly has only ONE more goal than that horrific offense from 2007!

Despite having two extended goal droughts (one a league record) this current team has ONE more goal than the hapless Dichio mob!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Toronto_FC_season

Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'd feel better.

woolly
07-27-2011, 01:15 PM
Tale of two seasons!

There continues to be chatter here about how woeful the 2007 TFC offense was, which is impossible to argue but look at this...

After 23 games played:

W GF GA GD
5 18 37 -19 2007
3 19 41 -22 2011

The 2011 TFC has given up more goals, has a worse goal difference, has 2 fewer wins and more shockingly has only ONE more goal than that horrific offense from 2007!

Despite having two extended goal droughts (one a league record) this current team has ONE more goal than the hapless Dichio mob!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Toronto_FC_season

Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'd feel better.

Ouch! That's pretty telling. Hopefully the addition of Frings et al. will make a difference, although I think it's too late in the season for them to gel and they will continue to get blown out.

If we can keep the current squad mostly intact and drop a few back to bench, we will be a much better team next year. But that's freakin' year 6 already...

Dbl_D
07-27-2011, 01:22 PM
I just hope this question isn't coming up in 2017

"Who'd win? 2007 Expansion Team v The 2017 Team..."

;)

sully
07-27-2011, 02:01 PM
god..could the current team beat the team that had Braz and Reda...the fact that this question can be asked at all is fairly sad...

69Chevy396
07-27-2011, 02:28 PM
Sadly, what we are witnessing in 2011 may become remembered as the worst team in MLS history. Does this mean the 2007 team is off the map somehow. We could recruit a team of crippled baboons and some people here would still like their chances. Why not ask this question instead: Which team would win if each player was in his prime at the time? Clearly it would be the 2011 squad. Yet how could a team as bad as the 2007 club end up with a better overall record than this sorry group of 2011?

Heart of Stone
07-29-2011, 12:58 PM
The 2007 team was less of a laughing stock because at that time TFC did not have any players on its Wall-of-Honour. Unlike now where a team that has never made the playoffs has two clowns on its Wall-of-Honour.

trane
07-29-2011, 02:37 PM
^ Dichio is a clown? How so?

pekduck
07-29-2011, 02:43 PM
The 2007 team was less of a laughing stock because at that time TFC did not have any players on its Wall-of-Honour. Unlike now where a team that has never made the playoffs has two clowns on its Wall-of-Honour.

Dichio is still a legend, I think you meant the clown who came up with the wall of honour idea right?

Toronto_Bhoy
07-30-2011, 06:24 PM
Dichio is still a legend, I think you meant the clown who came up with the wall of honour idea right?

Pekduck, thanks for clarifying "clown who came up with the wall" versus this thread!

nickio
07-30-2011, 07:18 PM
I think some people are forgetting here that 2011 had 2 teams. The pre-Frings and co. and the one we have now.

It would be unfair to evaluate the current squad by the results of the original 2011 team. At the end of the season we will see which 2011 team does better, I have my money on the Frings version.

nimamalek
08-01-2011, 09:13 PM
If Dichio is playing, the 2007 team would win hands down. There shouldnt even be an argument about this

nimamalek
08-01-2011, 09:15 PM
Tale of two seasons!

There continues to be chatter here about how woeful the 2007 TFC offense was, which is impossible to argue but look at this...

After 23 games played:

W GF GA GD
5 18 37 -19 2007
3 19 41 -22 2011

The 2011 TFC has given up more goals, has a worse goal difference, has 2 fewer wins and more shockingly has only ONE more goal than that horrific offense from 2007!

Despite having two extended goal droughts (one a league record) this current team has ONE more goal than the hapless Dichio mob!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Toronto_FC_season

Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'd feel better.

If that isnt enough proof, just look at the games where Dichio STARTED, TFC actually had a winning record

TOBOR !
08-03-2011, 02:45 PM
2007 Expansion team. Sorry, I'm just going by the stats here.

TFC may have ended its inaugural season dead last with 25 points and a 6-17-7 record, but we had 25 goals for and 49 against at the end of the season compared to our current 19 for and 41 against with 11 games still to go.

If our current trend continues, we are on track to have the worst season ever, even if the league standings don't necessarily reflect that.

That said, I think Swan is right in that we'd have a good mix if we had some players from 2007 on the pitch with the current team.

I may have missed the bus on this discussion, but undertaking a 4-3-3 attacking style initially will result in the ball in the back of your own net more that it's in the other. Considering we are in a transition over to a new style of play, I'll take this, as this squad and style of play holds far more promise than the 2007 style. Those guys will always be more loveable - especially as time moves us away from them - but this squad (maybe not today, but tomorrow) would kick their ass.

rocker
08-03-2011, 02:51 PM
Tale of two seasons!

There continues to be chatter here about how woeful the 2007 TFC offense was, which is impossible to argue but look at this...

After 23 games played:

W GF GA GD
5 18 37 -19 2007
3 19 41 -22 2011

The 2011 TFC has given up more goals, has a worse goal difference, has 2 fewer wins and more shockingly has only ONE more goal than that horrific offense from 2007!

Despite having two extended goal droughts (one a league record) this current team has ONE more goal than the hapless Dichio mob!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Toronto_FC_season

Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'd feel better.

Those stats show the teams would be about equal. Over 23 games, 3 goals difference or 1 goal difference or 2 wins difference means just about nothing statistically.

So yes, I would agree with the question of the thread "Could the current squad beat the expansion TFC."

Now, would one team (the team we've had over 23 games, however you could define that, since so many players have come and gone) dominate the other? Nope. If you played 100 games between them, you'd probably have a pretty even W-L-D standings.

But I think the current team (the team as the roster stands today, not the 23-game team) would probably win a greater share of games because of Frings, Koevermans, Johnson, etc. I also think the goaltending is better now than then. Both teams had/have pretty weak defenses so it'd probably come down to goals scored, and this team (as constituted today) would score more than the 2007 team I think.

69Chevy396
08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Those stats show the teams would be about equal. Over 23 games, 3 goals difference or 1 goal difference or 2 wins difference means just about nothing statistically.

So yes, I would agree with the question of the thread "Could the current squad beat the expansion TFC."

Now, would one team (the team we've had over 23 games, however you could define that, since so many players have come and gone) dominate the other? Nope. If you played 100 games between them, you'd probably have a pretty even W-L-D standings.

But I think the current team (the team as the roster stands today, not the 23-game team) would probably win a greater share of games because of Frings, Koevermans, Johnson, etc. I also think the goaltending is better now than then. Both teams had/have pretty weak defenses so it'd probably come down to goals scored, and this team (as constituted today) would score more than the 2007 team I think.

Frings, Koevermans and Johnson have only played a few games so far. Given the hype which surrounds almost every signing, it is too soon to determine the level of success they bring to the team in the future. So far, they have looked goood. But that could change very quickly. Dichio did score some amazing goals that first year, and players such as Edu and Obrien were as good as any player on the current roster.

Cashcleaner
08-07-2011, 08:22 PM
I may have missed the bus on this discussion, but undertaking a 4-3-3 attacking style initially will result in the ball in the back of your own net more that it's in the other. Considering we are in a transition over to a new style of play, I'll take this, as this squad and style of play holds far more promise than the 2007 style. Those guys will always be more loveable - especially as time moves us away from them - but this squad (maybe not today, but tomorrow) would kick their ass.

True enough that we are in a transition, but the question was about the current team, not what the team could potentially be.

boysblue
08-07-2011, 09:01 PM
isn't the fact that such a question is even being asked an indictment of this current sorry bunch?

marquis
08-07-2011, 09:04 PM
I think some people are forgetting here that 2011 had 2 teams. The pre-Frings and co. and the one we have now.

It would be unfair to evaluate the current squad by the results of the original 2011 team. At the end of the season we will see which 2011 team does better, I have my money on the Frings version.

Couldn't agree more!