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Empirical
07-19-2011, 02:17 AM
All the talk lately seems to be about our "System" or Winters system. Griffit and Johnson have noted that they feel like they fit into it especially well. But what do you think of, what Johnson calls "the free for all Dutch system".

I am by no stretch a soccer tactics expert, but I do know that the Dutch national team has been historically highly individually skilled but poor in terms of results. This scares me. Is it because their "Dutch system" sucks? Is that our system? ahh!

If any of you tactical experts would like to enlighten us on our "system" please chime in!

CretanBull
07-19-2011, 03:32 AM
The 'Dutch System' doesn't suck and isn't the reason why Holland have failed to get international results. Their 4-3-3 formation has been used by Barcelona to get results, and a variation on it 4-2-3-1 is used by many top teams (like World Cup winning Spain).

What worries me isn't whether or not the sytem itself is good, its whether or not our players are good enough to play it properly.

CSO_BBTB
07-19-2011, 05:55 AM
The "total football" and Dutch national team angle was MLSE marketing hype to sell tickets and not something that came from Winter and DeKlerk. This Guardian blog entry is worth a look because it explains why the diamond 4-4-2 is no longer the dominant formation at the top levels of the sport:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

and why various permutations of 4-3-3/4-5-1 have taken its place. Playing a 4-2-3-1 ("point forward" in Dutch terminology used by DeKlerk in web clips) is not hugely exotic and way too much has been made of the whole tactics are too advanced for MLS players angle.

Shakes McQueen
07-19-2011, 06:07 AM
The "total football" and Dutch national team angle was MLSE marketing hype to sell tickets and not something that came from Winter and DeKlerk. This Guardian blog entry is worth a look because it explains why the diamond 4-4-2 is no longer the dominant formation at the top levels of the sport:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

and why various permutations of 4-3-3/4-5-1 have taken its place. Playing a 4-2-3-1 ("point forward" in Dutch terminology used by DeKlerk in web clips) is not hugely exotic and way too much has been made of the whole tactics are too advanced for MLS players angle.

Good post, and completely agreed. I cringe when people sarcistically deride our focus on "total football", because that angle was never the doing of Winter and De Klerk - it was a marketing slant that got picked up by the media.

- Scott

TOBOR !
07-19-2011, 07:24 AM
The "total football" and Dutch national team angle was MLSE marketing hype to sell tickets and not something that came from Winter and DeKlerk. This Guardian blog entry is worth a look because it explains why the diamond 4-4-2 is no longer the dominant formation at the top levels of the sport:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

and why various permutations of 4-3-3/4-5-1 have taken its place. Playing a 4-2-3-1 ("point forward" in Dutch terminology used by DeKlerk in web clips) is not hugely exotic and way too much has been made of the whole tactics are too advanced for MLS players angle.

and, in case readers of this thread didn't already know, allow me to point out that Jonathan Wilson is the author of the fine book Inverting the Pyramid: A History of Football Tactics (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inverting-Pyramid-History-Football-Tactics/dp/0752889958) - well worth reading.

ecospice
07-19-2011, 07:33 AM
The 'Dutch System' doesn't suck and isn't the reason why Holland have failed to get international results. Their 4-3-3 formation has been used by Barcelona to get results, and a variation on it 4-2-3-1 is used by many top teams (like World Cup winning Spain).

What worries me isn't whether or not the sytem itself is good, its whether or not our players are good enough to play it properly.

We should play more like the Netherlands than Holland. The Netherlands made the WC Final last time round, and played well in the process.

:D

flatpicker
07-19-2011, 07:53 AM
^ Second best in the world is shameful.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-19-2011, 08:18 AM
The only reason the dutch have done 'poorly' internationally is because their players/team have a habit of imploding/clashing egos

Beach_Red
07-19-2011, 08:49 AM
Good post, and completely agreed. I cringe when people sarcistically deride our focus on "total football", because that angle was never the doing of Winter and De Klerk - it was a marketing slant that got picked up by the media.

- Scott

Well, it was more than a marketing "slant." you make it sound like the team fired a coach and GM and then hired a different coach and GM.

The media "picked up" the hiring of a consultant to "identify the culture" and... Well, we never got many specifics, but the whole process was sold by the team as somethimg more than just hiring a new coach. Maybe it was simply another move by the marketing department, but to say it was all media driven isn't the whole story.

Shakes McQueen
07-19-2011, 08:57 AM
Well, it was more than a marketing "slant." you make it sound like the team fired a coach and GM and then hired a different coach and GM.

The media "picked up" the hiring of a consultant to "identify the culture" and... Well, we never got many specifics, but the whole process was sold by the team as somethimg more than just hiring a new coach. Maybe it was simply another move by the marketing department, but to say it was all media driven isn't the whole story.

You're debating a point I didn't make. Altering the culture within the team is something Winter HAS talked about on more than one occasion, and something Klinsmann's group was brought in to evaluate.

I'm referring specifically to the ongoing blithe references to "total football". This is not something of Winter or de Klerk's doing.

- Scott

Wooster_TFC
07-19-2011, 08:57 AM
"Total Football" is the marketing slant, not the fact that there was a new coach and a new tactical system for the team.

In reference to Johnson's "free for all" comment, I think it's the interchangeable-ness of the 4-3-3 that he's referring to. For example, if he's playing left wing and the CF drops back to pick up a pass and he cuts into the middle, in TFC's system, he's now the CF and the CF should be slotting into LW for him. Most MLS teams don't have that setup, and expect the LW to bust their ass back into position in order to support the defence.

nickio
07-19-2011, 10:06 AM
I don't mind the marketing spin on it- it's their job, but I know the difference. The fact that this system will require quality knowledgable players is quiet obvious at this point- don't see anything wrong with that. Now comes the execution...

CretanBull
07-19-2011, 10:11 AM
The "total football" and Dutch national team angle was MLSE marketing hype to sell tickets and not something that came from Winter and DeKlerk. This Guardian blog entry is worth a look because it explains why the diamond 4-4-2 is no longer the dominant formation at the top levels of the sport:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

and why various permutations of 4-3-3/4-5-1 have taken its place. Playing a 4-2-3-1 ("point forward" in Dutch terminology used by DeKlerk in web clips) is not hugely exotic and way too much has been made of the whole tactics are too advanced for MLS players angle.

I agree with the above point, but disagree that 4-2-3-1 isn't above our player's abilities to play it properly. That formation requires wing-back style full-backs and forward-wide players who can track back on defense (like Lahm and Schweinsteiger) . It also relies heavily on a play-maker who can distribute the ball from the center of the midfield (like Ozil). Most importantly it requires the off-the-ball awareness and movement (that we haven't seen in 4 years) to know when to make the transitions - the interplay between chargining full-backs and the wide players

It's not difficult to stand in position in the 4-2-3-1 formation, but to make use of it's attacking strength requires a pretty high level of footie IQ and intuition. It's a fairly fluid system - like colapsing into 4-5-1 in defense, wide players dropping back, full-backs playing high up the pitch etc - and that's the weakness of most MLS/NCAA trained players. Also, with so many MLS team crowding the mid-field and swarming the ball, the central play-maker has to be very good with the ball at his feet and the other 3 forward players have to constantly be putting themselves in an open position to take passes to relieve pressure on the play-maker. Again, none of those abilities are the hallmarks of MLS/NCAA trained players.

nickio
07-19-2011, 10:19 AM
...but disagree that 4-2-3-1 isn't above our player's abilities to play it properly...

misread, disregard

trane
07-19-2011, 10:45 AM
All the talk lately seems to be about our "System" or Winters system. Griffit and Johnson have noted that they feel like they fit into it especially well. But what do you think of, what Johnson calls "the free for all Dutch system".

I am by no stretch a soccer tactics expert, but I do know that the Dutch national team has been historically highly individually skilled but poor in terms of results. This scares me. Is it because their "Dutch system" sucks? Is that our system? ahh!

If any of you tactical experts would like to enlighten us on our "system" please chime in!

Realy????? Poor in terms of results?????? Making it to the finals what four times, including in the last world cup, and a smallish country, that is poor??? Hmmm sure there are no USA but no other country is.

Empirical
07-20-2011, 04:10 PM
Realy????? Poor in terms of results?????? Making it to the finals what four times, including in the last world cup, and a smallish country, that is poor??? Hmmm sure there are no USA but no other country is.

I don't think there is a single indicator that supports that. They have a higher GDP/capita than Canada and have had a history of left leaning governments, so that indicator would be one of the least flattering.

Call me crazy but maybe all these fancy formations are not so helpful. The MLS all-stars (a jamble of players who have never really played as a team) seem to do REALLY well historically against some of the worlds top clubs.

Red I
07-20-2011, 04:31 PM
I don't think there is a single indicator that supports that. They have a higher GDP/capita than Canada and have had a history of left leaning governments, so that indicator would be one of the least flattering.

Call me crazy but maybe all these fancy formations are not so helpful. The MLS all-stars (a jamble of players who have never really played as a team) seem to do REALLY well historically against some of the worlds top clubs.
I think you're misreading trane's post - he wasn't saying the country is poor, but emphasising sarcasticly that their results do not actually equate to poor results.

I think every football coach would call you you crazy, as formations are the foundation of strategy, positioning, movement, etc. It helps to know where everyone is at every moment of the game.

Your point about an all-star team that hasn't played together can actually be successful does give credence to the arguement that with a high-talent team, a free-flowing system (which is a characteristic of the Dutch 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1) is actually both attractive and yeilds results.

mclaren
07-20-2011, 04:34 PM
The "total football" and Dutch national team angle was MLSE marketing hype to sell tickets and not something that came from Winter and DeKlerk. This Guardian blog entry is worth a look because it explains why the diamond 4-4-2 is no longer the dominant formation at the top levels of the sport:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

and why various permutations of 4-3-3/4-5-1 have taken its place. Playing a 4-2-3-1 ("point forward" in Dutch terminology used by DeKlerk in web clips) is not hugely exotic and way too much has been made of the whole tactics are too advanced for MLS players angle.

Really, how many teams in the whole WORLD would you say actually play TOTAL FOOTBALL right now? Maybe 1 or 2 if that. You're right, it was all just MLSE marketing hype on overdrive.

Red I
07-20-2011, 04:37 PM
"Total Football" is the marketing slant, not the fact that there was a new coach and a new tactical system for the team.

In reference to Johnson's "free for all" comment, I think it's the interchangeable-ness of the 4-3-3 that he's referring to. For example, if he's playing left wing and the CF drops back to pick up a pass and he cuts into the middle, in TFC's system, he's now the CF and the CF should be slotting into LW for him. Most MLS teams don't have that setup, and expect the LW to bust their ass back into position in order to support the defence.
^
100% Marketing, agreed

ag futbol
07-20-2011, 04:42 PM
Call me crazy but maybe all these fancy formations are not so helpful. The MLS all-stars (a jamble of players who have never really played as a team) seem to do REALLY well historically against some of the worlds top clubs.
There’s nothing crazy about the 4-3-3 formation itself. There are already other teams in the league using it.

Now if you were to say a very attack orientated 4-3-3, well implementing that successfully in a league with so much central tendency will be tough.

Cashcleaner
07-20-2011, 08:30 PM
The Netherlands National Team is quoted by many football experts as the best team to never win a world cup and I don't think we are going wrong by trying to emulate their style of management and development. I know some people are probably sick of constantly hearing "Total Football" or "System" or "Winter's Vision" but there is substance to what's being said.

"Total Football" does mean something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Football) and Winter's "system" implements. Personally, I like the idea of encouraging that level of flexibility out of players, though I can totally understand the drawbacks of the strategy as well.

Now, whether or not all this will actually work in MLS is a different story altogether. The concept itself is solid, but I agree that it's unproven in this league.

Pookie
07-20-2011, 09:10 PM
FIFA 11 on the xBox is creating a lot of coaching experts.

Blowing Bubbles
07-20-2011, 10:55 PM
I agree with the above point, but disagree that 4-2-3-1 isn't above our player's abilities to play it properly. That formation requires wing-back style full-backs and forward-wide players who can track back on defense (like Lahm and Schweinsteiger) . It also relies heavily on a play-maker who can distribute the ball from the center of the midfield (like Ozil). Most importantly it requires the off-the-ball awareness and movement (that we haven't seen in 4 years) to know when to make the transitions - the interplay between chargining full-backs and the wide players

It's not difficult to stand in position in the 4-2-3-1 formation, but to make use of it's attacking strength requires a pretty high level of footie IQ and intuition. It's a fairly fluid system - like colapsing into 4-5-1 in defense, wide players dropping back, full-backs playing high up the pitch etc - and that's the weakness of most MLS/NCAA trained players. Also, with so many MLS team crowding the mid-field and swarming the ball, the central play-maker has to be very good with the ball at his feet and the other 3 forward players have to constantly be putting themselves in an open position to take passes to relieve pressure on the play-maker. Again, none of those abilities are the hallmarks of MLS/NCAA trained players.

at this point how many "NCAA" players are we even using anymore?

Only 2 of the 10 outfield starters today could you pigeon hole in that manner - Harden and Sturgis. And they won't be here long anyway.

I'm finding the bashing of "MLS/NCAA" players and their apparent lack of skill and IQ as a convenient whipping boy in this thread.

James Oliphant
07-20-2011, 11:52 PM
FIFA 11 on the xBox is creating a lot of coaching experts.

Now now....they're on the PS3 too...

Beach_Red
07-21-2011, 07:17 AM
at this point how many "NCAA" players are we even using anymore?

Only 2 of the 10 outfield starters today could you pigeon hole in that manner - Harden and Sturgis. And they won't be here long anyway.

I'm finding the bashing of "MLS/NCAA" players and their apparent lack of skill and IQ as a convenient whipping boy in this thread.

That's interesting. And the goal was scored by an NCAA guy, wasn't it?

So, only two (plus Frei) from NCAA starting for TFC, how does that stack up against other MLS teams?

Mikey
07-21-2011, 07:18 AM
FIFA 11 on the xBox is creating a lot of coaching experts.

Perhaps we should have a collection and buy one for Winter....?

Detroit_TFC
07-21-2011, 08:12 AM
Get a bulk order, some of our players seem like they could use the help too. More A and less LB+Y, guys!

[NBF]
07-21-2011, 06:07 PM
There's a thread called, "Gordon Dishes on TFC and Winter", I forget who started it but it makes alot of sense when Alan Gordon is saying that the team was unorganized and the players were confused as to what management wanted them to do.

I remember watching the small segments with Bob deKlerk explaining the TFC system to Andy from the "Off The Pitch" program and the TFC preview and post shows, and I myself found it a bit confusing to understand what deKlerk was talking about as far as positioning and duties. It almost seemed like it was a very flexible system, where the players physical attributes would be essential in helping them recover from mistakes and maybe players with high physical attributes and low skill could "get by" on just their natural strengths, but to be successful with guys who are not skilled you almost have to play defensive and invite the attack and rely solely on the counter attack to produce goals. So in other words we definitely need wingers and a solid mobile striker.

rocker
07-21-2011, 08:21 PM
at this point how many "NCAA" players are we even using anymore?

Only 2 of the 10 outfield starters today could you pigeon hole in that manner - Harden and Sturgis. And they won't be here long anyway.

I'm finding the bashing of "MLS/NCAA" players and their apparent lack of skill and IQ as a convenient whipping boy in this thread.

You forgot Borman (16 starts). And you forgot Gargan (12 starts). Do you think these guys don't have an "apparent lack of skill and IQ"?

One only has to look at how few college draftees actually end up being starters in this league to see that the college players just don't measure up, unless you dumb down the game.

The cream of the crop can start. The majority will be backups and useful filler (no team could probably survive without their cheap labour).

Winter has quickly reduced the number of college players getting significant playing time from the Preki days.

barticusz
07-21-2011, 09:09 PM
Good interview with Koevermans regarding his first game and "the system".

http://www.mlssoccer.com/extratime

boban
07-21-2011, 09:37 PM
All the talk lately seems to be about our "System" or Winters system. Griffit and Johnson have noted that they feel like they fit into it especially well. But what do you think of, what Johnson calls "the free for all Dutch system".

I am by no stretch a soccer tactics expert, but I do know that the Dutch national team has been historically highly individually skilled but poor in terms of results. This scares me. Is it because their "Dutch system" sucks? Is that our system? ahh!

If any of you tactical experts would like to enlighten us on our "system" please chime in!
A Euro Championship, 3 WC finals, and a few semi-finals appearances is not poor - not even close.
Let alone from a country of ~15m people.

dimops
08-16-2011, 02:17 PM
Interesting article about Fabregas' signing in Barcelona and how it is a tactical evolution. (http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/08/16/2617774/with-the-signing-of-arsenals-cesc-fabregas-barcelona-could-begin-)

Quick notes:
- Fabregas replaces Puyol not (Xavi, Busquets, Alcantara)
- Barcelona can play, with a team of midfielders
- The role of the central 'defender' will become obsolete in the Barcelona system.
- Specialist defenders will be replaced by defensive midfielder

Would replacing a natural CD with a DM work in the MLS?

Eckersley - Frings - DeGuzman - ?
Dunfield - Avila - ??
Plata - Koevermans - Johnson

trane
08-16-2011, 02:47 PM
The modern day CDM in some way developed from moving the sweeper up, the sweeper is a skilled passing Central defenr, the two positions are closely related. Fabercas is not defender.

dimops
08-16-2011, 03:02 PM
What the guy in the article means is..

Fabregas replaces Puyol in the sense that now mascherano/busquets can be moved to the CD and Fabregas takes over that spot in midfield

trane
08-16-2011, 03:09 PM
^ That I see, although Maschareno is to small, but busquets seems to be able to do it. I will say this that the CBs and CDM should be able to interchange, in most systems. Being aware positionaly and passing skills are essential in both positions. When a CB gets posession of the ball, a good pass should be choice, one, and butting it up the field should be the last one.

PopePouri
08-16-2011, 03:17 PM
They're the best team in the world. Why change a winning formula?

Derko
08-16-2011, 04:06 PM
The 'Dutch System' doesn't suck and isn't the reason why Holland have failed to get international results. Their 4-3-3 formation has been used by Barcelona to get results, and a variation on it 4-2-3-1 is used by many top teams (like World Cup winning Spain).

What worries me isn't whether or not the sytem itself is good, its whether or not our players are good enough to play it properly.

In my opinion, the reason why the Dutch National team has failed in the past, is not the system, but because the players have been exceptional individuals, but sucked as a team, until the last World Cup where they played well as a team, can that translate to TFC, about playing within the System as a team, I think so, TFC have been more organized in the past 5 or 6 matches, including the home loss to FC Dallas. just my thoughts. :scarf:

brad
08-16-2011, 09:14 PM
They're the best team in the world. Why change a winning formula?

Good teams will keep evolving around the personal that yet have and to keep the opposition from being able to figure them out.

ryan
08-17-2011, 08:36 AM
Interesting article about Fabregas' signing in Barcelona and how it is a tactical evolution. (http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/08/16/2617774/with-the-signing-of-arsenals-cesc-fabregas-barcelona-could-begin-)

Quick notes:
- Fabregas replaces Puyol not (Xavi, Busquets, Alcantara)
- Barcelona can play, with a team of midfielders
- The role of the central 'defender' will become obsolete in the Barcelona system.
- Specialist defenders will be replaced by defensive midfielder

Would replacing a natural CD with a DM work in the MLS?

Eckersley - Frings - DeGuzman - ?
Dunfield - Avila - ??
Plata - Koevermans - Johnson

So with Frings playing the mid of the backline in our 3-4-3 that worked vs RSL, could it be said we're not only utilizing this tactical style but we're also keeping up with the advances of it?

Not to say that's the only way we should play, but the prospect of utilizing the current and future tactics of one of the greatest clubs in the world is certainly exciting....if that's indeed what Winter is doing.


They're the best team in the world. Why change a winning formula?

Resting on your laurels never really worked well in ...well, just about anything.

PopePouri
08-17-2011, 08:57 AM
Good teams will keep evolving around the personal that yet have and to keep the opposition from being able to figure them out.

Sure but that's a drastic change especially at the center half which as TFC supporters can say is probably the most important position. Will they have midfielders that understand the CB characteristics like positioning, defensive intuition, offside trap? What about big strong center forwards or players who time their runs well?

It may work against lesser opposition when they'll have most the possession but against Champions League opponents, I think it will bite them in the ass.

trane
08-17-2011, 09:11 AM
^ That is why Busquets can work at CB, as he not only has the skill set to play CB, while Maschereno can not due to his lack of size. The quickest solution to a small but skilled back like is a couple of big Center Forwards, pushing them around.

__wowza
08-17-2011, 09:32 AM
In my opinion, the reason why the Dutch National team has failed in the past, is not the system, but because the players have been exceptional individuals, but sucked as a team

an interesting note on top of this is that the spain team that played in the world cup contained 6 of the current starting XI barca players.

trane
08-17-2011, 09:37 AM
The whole the Dutch have failed is simply wrong, they have not won a wc, but other then those who have, and even compared to some that have they have a outstanding international record.

flatpicker
08-17-2011, 10:21 AM
The whole the Dutch have failed is simply wrong, they have not won a wc, but other then those who have, and even compared to some that have they have a outstanding international record.

Yeah, I never understood people that think you have to win the World Cup to be considered a good team.

Seriously, there have only been 19 champs since 1930.

Being a finalist is a pretty big deal.

trane
08-17-2011, 10:41 AM
^ It sure is, as is finishing in the final four.


19 WC Champs ( 12 of those won by Brazil, Italy, and Germany, which all have populations much larger then the Dutch).

Pookie
08-17-2011, 11:48 AM
It is amazing how many systems and variations there are yet most games come down to success in 1 v 1 situations.

William
08-17-2011, 11:56 AM
Rumours are that on August 24 the Dutch National team will be ranked number 1 by FIFA. Some of the stats experts apparently did the math before FIFA did. And the the current system isn't the same as 'totaal voetbal', where wingers had chalk on their shoes/ were glued to the sideline. They do still try to use the space in the corners of the opponents side of the pitch though. But it now can also be covered by other players playing on that side of the pitch. I think they watched the Brazilians do that, they clearly didn't like Branco when he played against The Netherlands a few years ago. Soccer (augh I said it) balls move faster than soccer players, simple as that.

Clockwork Orange was the latest term I heard for this system (wasn't Barcelona FC's away jersey orange for a while?).

CoachGT
08-17-2011, 02:21 PM
It is amazing how many systems and variations there are yet most games come down to success in 1 v 1 situations.

1v1, first touch, first to the ball and patience while defending.....

dutch
08-17-2011, 04:47 PM
we're talking about too many things at once here. for me personally anyways. holland is netherlands is dutch. I dont know who said dutch soccer vs holland soccer but it was said. netherlands does not have weak results in international football. read up on the last 50 years of soccer. especially not when you think of results in terms of per capita, theyre the 2nd greatest football nation in the world that way. (uruguay is 1st with only 3.5 million people) anyways I'm not dutch, my name is just a name but yes I could see barcelona trying to evolve the game with more midfields around the the pitch, and yes I think tfc should take advantage of theyre strengths to the best of theyre benefit. they have an advantage right now that they can place jdg or frings or avila in different positions. some people say frings as a cb is a waste or not where he should be but putting jdg as cm and avila at am allows us to have frings as the sweeper/shut down man and also be a GREAT quarter back for our attacking forward. eckersley and frings are a great combo in the back field. jdg is a great dp and midfielder and just because frings is on the team dosent mean he needs to leave. thats the great thing about midfielders and what makes toronto look really good right now. players can be moved and the whole unit is no weaker. listening to winter after rsl, the media kept trying to pin him down (why was frings playing cb/ is 3-4-3 the new system/ will frings be moved to defense/ etc etc) winters answer was we look at each game individually, people and systems will be played as best we can that day. and thats great to know we can take advantage of that because most mls teams dont have that much room to swap and move around theyre plans.

Wingback6
08-17-2011, 05:45 PM
^ while Maschereno can not due to his lack of size.

He seemed to do fine there in the Champions League Final last year... when they made ManU look like BoyU - IN ENGLAND.

trane
08-18-2011, 10:27 AM
^ Sure, but that is one game, but I would think that game in game out I would want a more physical presence at CB.

trane
08-18-2011, 10:29 AM
It is amazing how many systems and variations there are yet most games come down to success in 1 v 1 situations.

You desing system to put your players in the most varouable 1 on 1 situations, and limit them in situations in which you are in a disadvantage. It is not a either or question.

Don Julio
08-18-2011, 04:20 PM
FUCK THE SYSTEM, maaaan.