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denime
07-12-2011, 05:36 AM
Mornin'



TFC TV (http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp)


Winter Out To Address Team Quality (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/07/winter-out-address-team-quality)


Toronto FC looking to regroup after dismal week (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/07/11/toronto-looking-regroup-after-dismal-week)




SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl)


_

CoachGT
07-12-2011, 05:44 AM
Morning D

keem-o-sabi
07-12-2011, 06:13 AM
Good morning D

Coed Girls 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/07/10/26-sexy-new-photos-of-british-bisexual-babe-hayley-quinn/) & 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/07/11/miss-coed-dixie-sway-35-pics/)

also of note, the club I work for, Burlington Youth Soccer Club, is hosting an international u17 tournament this week (no idea why TFC refuses to play in this...). It started yesterday we have 8 boys teams and 6 girls teams.

THe boys teams are:
Corinthians from Brazil
Appledorn from Holland
Ajax from Ontario (Canadian Champion)
FSS Salaberry from Quebec (Provincial Champion)
Australian Soccer Skool (Australia)
Bayamon FC (Puerto Rico)
Macrosoccer (Mexico)
Midsouth FC (Memphis, Tenn)

Each team plays one game per day, starts again this morning at 9am. Here is the schedule (http://www.canadianshieldsoccer.com/Default.asp?id=tournament-schedule&l=1)
Watched the dutch team vs corinthians, very good game last night. You don't get that quality here in youth soccer ever.

scooter
07-12-2011, 07:07 AM
mornin d

ensco
07-12-2011, 07:28 AM
“We’ve got a lot of lack of quality,” head coach and technical director Aron Winter said bluntly. “We can play 20 to 25 minutes, maybe a half-game well, but after that we don’t do the things anymore that we expect.”

A classic Winter quote. He may be "blunt" but he isn't very "clear". What exactly is he saying? That some of the players are no good, that all of them are no good, or that they're only good for 25 minutes?

If they're only good for 25 minutes, why aren't they good after that?

Just another day where the players get thrown under the bus by the boss...

Pookie
07-12-2011, 07:52 AM
“We’ve got a lot of lack of quality,” head coach and technical director Aron Winter said bluntly. “We can play 20 to 25 minutes, maybe a half-game well, but after that we don’t do the things anymore that we expect.”

A classic Winter quote. He may be "blunt" but he isn't very "clear". What exactly is he saying? That some of the players are no good, that all of them are no good, or that they're only good for 25 minutes?

If they're only good for 25 minutes, why aren't they good after that?

Just another day where the players get thrown under the bus by the boss...

Or another honest assessment by the boss that they have a lack of quality and offering it up gives a reason as to why they have been and will be active during the transfer window.

Seriously, if he came out and said we have the talent to compete with the LA's of the world, what would be your reply?

Ossington Mental Youth
07-12-2011, 07:53 AM
English is barely his second language.
And we dont have enough talent on the squad even you can agree with that.

mdc 77
07-12-2011, 07:59 AM
I'm not sure how you can be all over Winter for that statement. I mean I don't want a manager who is always putting the players down but some honesty is appreicated. He knows we have a serious lack of talent, some mangers (Preki) seem to be delusional about that fact.

redcard
07-12-2011, 08:06 AM
well at least winter didnt through them under the bus before the transfer window...

he's doing it now because there may be significant moves within the team to address the quality...

Ultra & Proud
07-12-2011, 08:15 AM
I have no problem with Winter's assessment of our lack of talent because he is being honest and he's actually right on the money. I'd MUCH rather have our manager recognize the shortcomings of the roster and work to address it than have someone like Gargan stand up on TFC TV after the 5-0 NYRB hammering and say something along the lines of 'We played well but just made a few mistakes that cost us. They can be easily corrected.' Now he's been saying that in interview after interview after all our shite matches and if that's representative of the mindset of the players then they need this wake up call badly.

mastermixer
07-12-2011, 08:22 AM
I'm not sure how you can be all over Winter for that statement. I mean I don't want a manager who is always putting the players down but some honesty is appreicated. He knows we have a serious lack of talent, some mangers (Preki) seem to be delusional about that fact.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure it helps team morale to be so public about how shitty your squad is and that you will be trading players this week.

Menelaos
07-12-2011, 08:35 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure it helps team morale to be so public about how shitty your squad is and that you will be trading players this week.

Guy can't win can he?

You'd prefer he said he has a team that can compete?
We all know he doesn't. You really think the players are stupid enough to think they are?

I don't think it matters what he says, or how he says it. Someone here will find something wrong with what he said, when he said it, how he said it.

When they lie we want the truth, when they tell the truth we'd prefer a spin, when they spin we again jump on them...

Carts
07-12-2011, 08:38 AM
Guy can't win can he?

When they lie we want the truth, when they tell the truth we'd prefer a spin, when they spin we again jump on them...

You want the truth folks? Its quoted above...

THAT IS THE TRUTH...

Beach_Red
07-12-2011, 08:40 AM
“We’ve got a lot of lack of quality,” head coach and technical director Aron Winter said bluntly. “We can play 20 to 25 minutes, maybe a half-game well, but after that we don’t do the things anymore that we expect.”

A classic Winter quote. He may be "blunt" but he isn't very "clear". What exactly is he saying? That some of the players are no good, that all of them are no good, or that they're only good for 25 minutes?

If they're only good for 25 minutes, why aren't they good after that?

Just another day where the players get thrown under the bus by the boss...


Maybe Tommy A will let us know in his diary if something's been going on behind the scenes. A team lsoing this badly this often probably has some upset in the offices. Maybe the guy trying to implement the consultant's plan wants to change things up but doesn't have the authority to do so. Maybe he's even talked to people about it but they're sticking to the plan.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-12-2011, 08:48 AM
Maybe hes just got shitty players and theres no conspiracy.

mastermixer
07-12-2011, 08:49 AM
Guy can't win can he?

You'd prefer he said he has a team that can compete?
We all know he doesn't. You really think the players are stupid enough to think they are?

I don't think it matters what he says, or how he says it. Someone here will find something wrong with what he said, when he said it, how he said it.

When they lie we want the truth, when they tell the truth we'd prefer a spin, when they spin we again jump on them...

It's one thing to tell your team behind closed doors they stink, but does it help to publicly throw your players under the bus like he did? The only thing this does is save his reputation at the cost of his players.

Isn't part of coaching getting the team prepared to battle in this league?
Do you think telling the world they suck helps the team get motivated to play the next game?

This is the team he has right now and he's shitting on them. I just think its a bad move.

ensco
07-12-2011, 08:50 AM
English is barely his second language.
And we dont have enough talent on the squad even you can agree with that.

I actually don't think he was talking about talent level, but I'm not sure.

This is the sort of thing that everyone will look back on in hindsight as though they knew it and understood it all along, but it's somehow bad form to discuss in real time.

Winter's communication problem may not be his "fault", but it's a serious problem.

Beach_Red
07-12-2011, 08:55 AM
Maybe hes just got shitty players and theres no conspiracy.


Maybe not a conspiracy but there's likely conflict in the FO - how could there not be the way this team is playing.

I like that Winter has started to be more assertive and saying he's going to start trading players and so on. It's like he's finally starting to see this as his team and taking some control of it.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-12-2011, 08:58 AM
Maybe not a conspiracy but there's likely conflict in the FO - how could there not be the way this team is playing.

I like that Winter has started to be more assertive and saying he's going to start trading players and so on. It's like he's finally starting to see this as his team and taking some control of it.

Fair enough.
Dunno why the other dudes at MLSE wouldnt allow that in the first place tho. Dont think Gargan has that special a place in their hearts, know what i mean? Just dont see what they would have to lose in doing that from the start. I mean even if Frings and Koevermans were Klinnsman signings, Im sure that it was ok'd by Winter, or he even said I need dudes in these positions, i dont see them as just being thrust upon him, same goes for any signings Mariner would bring in.

DangerRed
07-12-2011, 09:04 AM
Or another honest assessment by the boss that they have a lack of quality and offering it up gives a reason as to why they have been and will be active during the transfer window.

Seriously, if he came out and said we have the talent to compete with the LA's of the world, what would be your reply?

Hilarious. So it took him more than half the season to reach this "honest assessment?" Give me a break.

Gazza
07-12-2011, 09:10 AM
Winter doesn't spit in our faces and tell us it's raining. I appreciate that.

But the onus is on him to bring in quality or at least get the most out of what he already has at his disposal.

mdc 77
07-12-2011, 09:13 AM
Hilarious. So it took him more than half the season to reach this "honest assessment?" Give me a break.

No I'm pretty sure he, along with Mariner have known it since day one. Did you expect them to just go out and upgrade talent at 10 spots instantly? So far I think the player moves Winter has made have upgraded our talent level, if anything i see some progress on that front.

Menelaos
07-12-2011, 09:39 AM
It's one thing to tell your team behind closed doors they stink

Which he might have done?


but does it help to publicly throw your players under the bus like he did? The only thing this does is save his reputation at the cost of his players.

He didn't mention anyone specifically, and I'm pretty sure some of the players themselves have been making comments.



This is the team he has right now and he's shitting on them. I just think its a bad move.

I don't see how he's "shitting" on them by telling the truth. They are professional athletes who are not performing to their bosses standards. In our jobs, we would have been fired and replaced.

I like that he's being honest and if it doesn't wake some people up, they should start packing.

Pookie
07-12-2011, 09:46 AM
Hilarious. So it took him more than half the season to reach this "honest assessment?" Give me a break.

Are you saying he is wrong? We actually have "quality"?

West220Side
07-12-2011, 09:47 AM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3690133/Alex-Ferguson-believes-Major-League-Soccer-could-eventually-expand-to-four-conferences.html

Maybe we could trick Sir Alex into being our manager.

mastermixer
07-12-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't see how he's "shitting" on them by telling the truth. They are professional athletes who are not performing to their bosses standards. In our jobs, we would have been fired and replaced.

I like that he's being honest and if it doesn't wake some people up, they should start packing.

In most cases I would agree, but this team is in a fragile state right now not only internally, but with the image perceived by the rest of the league. Him saying I'm going to trade players because they suck so nonchalantly in public is a little over the top and not an endorsement for players to have a career here.

Couchy81
07-12-2011, 09:50 AM
I think we all knew our team lacked quality after the first match of the season. Once DeRo was traded, and we saw what our team consisted of, how anyone thought we produce results is beyond me. The fact people are arguing against Winter on this quote is laughable.

Brooker
07-12-2011, 11:20 AM
Hilarious. So it took him more than half the season to reach this "honest assessment?" Give me a break.

He's said it from the beginning. He said we'd be shit this year.

ensco
07-12-2011, 12:22 PM
ahem

I really don't think Winter was talking about talent level. I think he's talking about consistency, or concentration, or fitness, or something like that

carry on

TO DEVILS
07-12-2011, 12:31 PM
ahem

I really don't think Winter was talking about talent level. I think he's talking about consistency, or concentration, or fitness, or something like that

carry on

I think he was talking about talent.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so a bad player or a player with no talent will still be able to do one or two things right, that doesn't mean he will consistently play well for 90 minutes.

So they don't have the talent/ability to perform consistently at an expected level.

Whoop
07-12-2011, 01:07 PM
Interesting.



SoccerInsider (http://twitter.com/#%21/SoccerInsider) Steven Goff

Haven't seen contract figures for Toronto FC's incoming Euro players, but hearing they are huge numbers

moralis
07-12-2011, 01:55 PM
Is Steve Goff talking about Torsten Frings and Danny Kovermans getting huge contracts or new euro players coming in getting huge contracts. Can someone tweet back clarifying what he meant by that comment.

ExiledRed
07-12-2011, 02:07 PM
I think he was talking about talent.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so a bad player or a player with no talent will still be able to do one or two things right, that doesn't mean he will consistently play well for 90 minutes.

So they don't have the talent/ability to perform consistently at an expected level.

So if hes talking about talent, why does he think the players are talented for 25 minutes and lacking for the rest of the match? He's not talking about individual players randomly doing the right thing at random points in the game, he's talking abot a twenty minute consistent effort from the team followed by a breakdown across the squad.

Whoop
07-12-2011, 02:07 PM
Is Steve Goff talking about Torsten Frings and Danny Kovermans getting huge contracts or new euro players coming in getting huge contracts. Can someone tweet back clarifying what he meant by that comment.

He's talking about Frings and Koevermans.

Ossington Mental Youth
07-12-2011, 02:12 PM
Is Steve Goff talking about Torsten Frings and Danny Kovermans getting huge contracts or new euro players coming in getting huge contracts. Can someone tweet back clarifying what he meant by that comment.
whats the quote?

C.Ronaldo
07-12-2011, 02:54 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure it helps team morale to be so public about how shitty your squad is and that you will be trading players this week.

why, can their play get worse?

Wooster_TFC
07-12-2011, 04:45 PM
I'm convinced that Cochrane and Dasovic had too much pull with the higher ups, and so you get things like "we have a solid CB combination in Cann and Attakora, two game changers in midfield in Dero and JDG, and a bunch of great players ready to sign in Ornoch, Ent, and Sidra". It also wouldn't surprise me if Winter and Mariner had to "convince" people that some of these players weren't up to snuff, and at the same time, the DeRo situation became untenable.

Why else would Dasovic have stayed on as long as he did when he was essentially fired as an assistant coach?

Blizzard
07-12-2011, 06:08 PM
I'm convinced that Cochrane and Dasovic had too much pull with the higher ups, and so you get things like "we have a solid CB combination in Cann and Attakora, two game changers in midfield in Dero and JDG, and a bunch of great players ready to sign in Ornoch, Ent, and Sidra". It also wouldn't surprise me if Winter and Mariner had to "convince" people that some of these players weren't up to snuff, and at the same time, the DeRo situation became untenable.

Why else would Dasovic have stayed on as long as he did when he was essentially fired as an assistant coach?

Because he had a contract.

Wooster_TFC
07-12-2011, 08:11 PM
Because he had a contract.

Let me re-phrase that then. Why else would Daso have been kept around at TFC if he was essentially fired. You don't put someone in limbo, then name him head scout for a region, then a couple months later part ways with him. It's pretty clear to me that for whatever reason Winter didn't want him around, and yet he stayed on with TFC. Someone higher up had to have liked the guy.

ag futbol
07-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Let me re-phrase that then. Why else would Daso have been kept around at TFC if he was essentially fired. You don't put someone in limbo, then name him head scout for a region, then a couple months later part ways with him. It's pretty clear to me that for whatever reason Winter didn't want him around, and yet he stayed on with TFC. Someone higher up had to have liked the guy.
You are probably right, someone at TFC liked the guy, but in the end he was working under Winter who didn't have any use for his services. That probably became more and more apparent after a couple of months and he decided it was better to take his chances rather than be marginalized.

As for the title, that smelled fishy right away in my books. MLS teams simply do not have that kind of budget. Five years ago DCU was the only team in the league with a dedicated scout. Front offices have grown but most talent acquisition is still facilitated through head office and scouting activity is still pretty limited.

Severance also could have been a factor. If TFC lets him go, they are on the hook for a bit of cash. So maybe the front office knew Winter would marginalize him but they didn't want to spend the extra money on giving him a package.

Jim Brennan and Danny Dichio come to mind with situations like this as well.

CSO_BBTB
07-12-2011, 10:11 PM
I'm convinced that Cochrane and Dasovic had too much pull with the higher ups, and so you get things like "we have a solid CB combination in Cann and Attakora, two game changers in midfield in Dero and JDG, and a bunch of great players ready to sign in Ornoch, Ent, and Sidra"....

Odds on Cochrane and Dasovic had convinced the higher ups that Mo and Preki were the problem and that they could quickly start getting better results with the players that were already in place. The Klinsmann consultancy appears to have been the response to that failing to materialize (almost comic that anyone could think they could open things up and play a more attacking style with Gargan and Garcia as the starting fullbacks), the failure to keep DeRosario's ego under control and sluggish ticket sales and that process ultimately led to Winter after the Cochrane/Dasovic combo had already made a series of key roster decisions. I suspect the bizarre way DeRosario's training stint with Celtic unfolded may have been the final nail in the coffin.

TO DEVILS
07-13-2011, 01:18 PM
So if hes talking about talent, why does he think the players are talented for 25 minutes and lacking for the rest of the match? He's not talking about individual players randomly doing the right thing at random points in the game, he's talking abot a twenty minute consistent effort from the team followed by a breakdown across the squad.

I didn't read it as him saying the team in general plays well in the first 25 minutes and then collapses. I read it as he can get 25 minutes in average out of this bunch and they lack quality/talent to give him a full 90 minutes.