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View Full Version : Fill BMO to save Toronto FC



tiberius
07-10-2011, 11:07 AM
I have said this before, in various threads, and will raise it again today. The only way MLSE will pay attention and do more to improve this woeful club is if the martini drinking suits in the bmo box look over at your section and see no chanting, no flag waving, no cheering. You guys underestimate the value you bring to the club, to the organization. Whenever I have brought new people to bmo the first thing they do is marvel at the supporters, particularly RPB. Take this away and you will send the message, otherwise, in many respects, you are no different than the season ticket holders at the leaf games who show up in their suits and minks, and talk business while the team is slaughtered on the ice.

Gotta agree with chevy here - there is not much ammo left in the clip here - if we want to do anything about changing how things will unfold in the next 15 months - this is all that is left.

To do it right, send an open letter to TFC(well written) via the media, well in advance. Really work hard to get the other supporters groups onside. Start a game of silence with the RSL game in August. (Obviously cheer for near misses or goals and the boys at the end of the game - that is it) (edit: OK Danny Dichio at 24th exempted - it is so 2007 anyway...) continue it all the way through the season ticket renewal period. Make the demand simple - cut pricing back to 2007 level for 2012 - period. (the rationale is that this will refill the stands.) Also required is great visuals - say black shirts with a single dollar sign or "2007". A couple of great two sticks like "don't kill this team" " save TFC" "Fill BMO" "Fill the stands" "Bring back the magic". Save the team by filling the stands is the message. (not high ticket prices, not MLSE price ripoffs, not bad MLSE, not crappy team, etc...)

That way, MLSE, Toronto FC, supporters and casual fans are all working towards a single goal... fill the stands in 2012. You are also speaking MLSE language - full stadium = lots of money. To get lots of money, drop the pricing a lot. Supply, Demand - Tommy A.'s strong suit (apparently)

Interviews provided by supporter presidents- stick to the same single point - the club is dying - refilling the stands will save the club - return to 2007 to rekindle the magic and enthusiasm. (TFC can put the prices back the following year if they want to...)

The only thing that might derail this would be if Frings, Koevermans and other July aquisitions turn things around big time. Even then, the "save the team" campaign could claim credit for the turnaround! :)

Cashcleaner
07-10-2011, 11:26 AM
We've protested too much in the past, and as a result, have diluted the effectiveness of the messages we've tried to convey. The other fans at BMO have lost interest in these displays and so has the club, rendering it all rather pointless.

tiberius
07-10-2011, 11:37 AM
We've protested too much in the past, and as a result, have diluted the effectiveness of the messages we've tried to convey. The other fans at BMO have lost interest in these displays and so has the club, rendering it all rather pointless.

You might be right, but if you had to choose one thing that might be effective at this point, what would it be? People still come to the game for the atmosphere that the supporter's groups generate - in fact, that is all that is really left, as the product on the field isn"t going to keep them coming back...

I think a silent supporters section for several games, will influence other season ticket holders and those thinking of buying tickets for 2012... That, therefore influences the FO. It also sends a strong message as to Supporters intend for 2012... I don't think the support groups are organized enough to pull it off, but if they did, it would have a definite effect! No doubt.

Roogsy
07-10-2011, 11:40 AM
I disagree with a protest. Its always a last resort. Honestly right now we have to see the year out.

ensco
07-10-2011, 11:46 AM
The only thing that will matter is non-renewals. The only thing left for SSHs is to decide whether it's worth it to renew. That's by definition an individual act.

The FO are throwing away the gates for the CCL games deliberately, to protect the chance that they can somehow hold the line on renewals with a few victories. My fear is that, given the absurd euphoria in these parts about the NCC victory, it could work!

[NBF]
07-10-2011, 11:49 AM
Nothing says the team sucks more than the old paperbag over the head:):drinking:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5tKvwoPy9SM/TCYKxHjMdUI/AAAAAAAAI50/ukg0MBhT3g8/s1600/062510%2Bpaper%2Bbag%2Bhead.jpg


Cheaper and easier to make people look at you and its something we all understand what it means.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s73/fincastle/Random/thsmiley_paperbag.gif

TFCRegina
07-10-2011, 11:50 AM
I disagree with a protest. Its always a last resort. Honestly right now we have to see the year out.

Yup. Right on.

uncle p
07-10-2011, 12:00 PM
Im slightly confused by this thread, what exactly are we "protesting"? The fact that the team stinks? If so, Ensco has already nailed it!! If you wanna take a stand do it with your wallet

And I dont think for one second that MLSE is happy with TFC being the league's doormat, so a protest might be pointless anyway as we (the supporters) and they (management) want the same thing to begin with

rocker
07-10-2011, 12:05 PM
The FO are throwing away the gates for the CCL games deliberately, to protect the chance that they can somehow hold the line on renewals with a few victories. My fear is that, given the absurd euphoria in these parts about the NCC victory, it could work!

But isn't success in the CCL what many want first and foremost?

I've read many threads on this board about how playoffs are not as important as CCL... that TFC should prioritize the CCL over the regular season... that TFC should give up on the season as we have no chance of playoffs and go all out for the CCL.

Or is that just playing into the owner's hands?

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:07 PM
I disagree with a protest. Its always a last resort. Honestly right now we have to see the year out.

If we just see the year out, TFC will undoubtly maintain their high prices and the season ticket renewal debacle will have occurred.

The goal is to influence ticket pricing - get the pricing structure revised downward as far a possible to help stem the tide of non-renewals. Forget about shirts and banners, just maintain silence - that sends 95% of the message anyway...

This is not a Winter, or team quality issue...

Perhaps you are saying that the pricing/renewal debacle is inevitable? If so, you are probably right...

That being said Anselmi and others woke up in Town Halls last September during Season Ticket renewal period- it was their fabled 20,000 strong waiting list that saved them last year - they have no safety net this year.

Waiting to complain about ticket pricing until it is presented in September is way too late - thoughts on pricing for next year will be cemented in July + August - their hands will be pretty well tied, by the time they present their "package" to us.

Even if Anselmi WANTED to reduce pricing significantly, he would have to justify it - big time. Silent supporter sections in August might be just what is needed to provide emergency justification to offset the financial risk inherent in reducing ticket pricing.

Just my 2 cents.

Cashcleaner
07-10-2011, 12:10 PM
But isn't success in the CCL what many want first and foremost?

I've read many threads on this board about how playoffs are not as important as CCL... that TFC should prioritize the CCL over the regular season... that TFC should give up on the season as we have no chance of playoffs and go all out for the CCL.

Or is that just playing into the owner's hands?

It should certainly be part of the criteria. But how badly have we lowered the bar by saying things are alright as long as we can beat an expansion team in it's first MLS season and a semi-pro expansion team playing it's first season in a league below us.

Shame about missing out on the MLS playoffs, but hey, we sure showed those two powerhouses known as the Vancouver Whitecaps and FC Edmonton how to play! WOOT!!! WORLDBEATERS!!!

Pookie
07-10-2011, 12:13 PM
So, a half empty stadium with little noise will send a message? Have you been to a game in the last year?

What exactly would be the focus of the protest?

- an investment in facilities?
- an investment in future development?
- an investment in new Designated Players?
- someone to tell Anselmi what to do?
- a new Manager?

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:15 PM
So, a half empty stadium with little noise will send a message? Have you been to a game in the last year?

What exactly would be the focus of the protest?

- an investment in facilities?
- an investment in future development?
- an investment in new Designated Players?
- someone to tell Anselmi what to do?
- a new Manager?

2007 ticket prices, or at least a significant reduction in pricing - period. To fill the seats.

Pookie
07-10-2011, 12:15 PM
If we just see the year out, TFC will undoubtly maintain their high prices and the season ticket renewal debacle will have occurred.

The goal is to influence ticket pricing - get the pricing structure revised downward as far a possible to help stem the tide of non-renewals. Forget about shirts and banners, just maintain silence - that sends 95% of the message anyway...

This is not a Winter, or team quality issue...

Perhaps you are saying that the pricing/renewal debacle is inevitable? If so, you are probably right...

That being said Anselmi and others woke up in Town Halls last September during Season Ticket renewal period- it was their fabled 20,000 strong waiting list that saved them last year - they have no safety net this year.

Waiting to complain about ticket pricing until it is presented in September is way too late - thoughts on pricing for next year will be cemented in July + August - their hands will be pretty well tied, by the time they present their "package" to us.

Even if Anselmi WANTED to reduce pricing significantly, he would have to justify it - big time. Silent supporter sections in August might be just what is needed to provide emergency justification to offset the financial risk inherent in reducing ticket pricing.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm all for a reduction in ticket prices as it makes sound economics. Perhaps I am misreading your intention.

It looks as though you are tying a ticket price issue to that of a performance on the pitch issue. These can never be tied together.

DangerRed
07-10-2011, 12:15 PM
Gotta agree with chevy here - there is not much ammo left in the clip here - if we want to do anything about changing how things will unfold in the next 15 months - this is all that is left.

To do it right, send an open letter to TFC(well written) via the media, well in advance. Really work hard to get the other supporters groups onside. Start a game of silence with the RSL game in August. (Obviously cheer for near misses or goals and the boys at the end of the game - that is it) (edit: OK Danny Dichio at 24th exempted - it is so 2007 anyway...) continue it all the way through the season ticket renewal period. Make the demand simple - cut pricing back to 2007 level for 2012 - period. (the rationale is that this will refill the stands.) Also required is great visuals - say black shirts with a single dollar sign or "2007". A couple of great two sticks like "don't kill this team" " save TFC" "Fill BMO" "Fill the stands" "Bring back the magic". Save the team by filling the stands is the message. (not high ticket prices, not MLSE price ripoffs, not bad MLSE, not crappy team, etc...)

That way, MLSE, Toronto FC, supporters and casual fans are all working towards a single goal... fill the stands in 2012. You are also speaking MLSE language - full stadium = lots of money. To get lots of money, drop the pricing a lot. Supply, Demand - Tommy A.'s strong suit (apparently)

Interviews provided by supporter presidents- stick to the same single point - the club is dying - refilling the stands will save the club - return to 2007 to rekindle the magic and enthusiasm. (TFC can put the prices back the following year if they want to...)

The only thing that might derail this would be if Frings, Koevermans and other July aquisitions turn things around big time. Even then, the "save the team" campaign could claim credit for the turnaround! :)

I see that you joined only a few months ago, so you may be missing the context, but protests around here are nothing new. They don't work -- see threads related to green shirt/silence day. You want to protest, vote with your wallet and stop buying what they're selling.

Cashcleaner
07-10-2011, 12:16 PM
A silent stadium would certainly make the FO happy. Remember, the same FO that tells us to not swear so much and tone things down?

Tiberius, you could very well be their most favourite fan if you managed to convince a few others with your idea.

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:26 PM
A silent stadium would certainly make the FO happy. Remember, the same FO that tells us to not swear so much and tone things down?

Tiberius, you could very well be their most favourite fan if you managed to convince a few others with your idea.

I will go back to Chevy's original point that I agree with - many/most supporters underestimate the fact that the more casual fan still comes to the game and comes back again, because of the action in the supporters stands - even to this day. If that stops, what are they coming for? The food? I am having a hard time with the thinking that the FO wants a silent stadium???? I am far, far from a FO lover, but I don't think thay are that nuts!

DichioTFC
07-10-2011, 12:27 PM
Too much protesting will cannibalize the group.

If you want to protest, dont pay for The Ex parking, don't buy concessions, don't buy the swag.

prizby
07-10-2011, 12:33 PM
wtf are we going to protest?

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:34 PM
I see that you joined only a few months ago, so you may be missing the context, but protests around here are nothing new. They don't work -- see threads related to green shirt/silence day. You want to protest, vote with your wallet and stop buying what they're selling.

Hi Danger - I have been on this board since 2007. You are right - shirts + banners - forget it. Silence is the only message. This is not a "protest" - this is a message - the supporters think that for good of the club, pricing needs to go down drastically. To send that message, the stadium atmoshpere (which sells tickets) will be affected up to ticket renewal. I agree that non-renewal is the ultimate end point/message. I'd just prefer TFC FO turn it around by reducing pricing....

Perhaps some of you feel a price reduction won't help - I will disagree, but I respect that opinion...

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Too much protesting will cannibalize the group.

If you want to protest, dont pay for The Ex parking, don't buy concessions, don't buy the swag.

Done, done and done. What is next?

(OK I bought water at the last game...)

DichioTFC
07-10-2011, 12:41 PM
^ Next? We play the year out.

What were your expectations heading into the season? I was expecting TFC to miss the playoffs and win the NCC.

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:42 PM
wtf are we going to protest?
I don't think protest is the right word here. The issue is:
- do we believe that a reduction is ticket pricing for 2012 will help this club in the long run?
- if so, what are the most effective means to communicate that message and to get that result?

Perhaps others feel that a letter from Boris to Tommy A. will effect the result we want?

tiberius
07-10-2011, 12:50 PM
^ Next? We play the year out.

What were your expectations heading into the season? I was expecting TFC to miss the playoffs and win the NCC.

Me too and I am not bent out shape about this (much).

I think the most pressing issue is that the FO is likely to just "hold" season ticket pricing for 2012 and that will produce a mass rush for the exits. I am actually asking that supporters be altruistic - the price of supporters tickets probably won't go down much, if at all, and the supporter tickets will mostly get renewed and will always sell very well. The real issue is in the rest of the stadium - the greys, blues and reds. Do we want supporters + empty stadium or a FULL STADIUM like 2007. Since the product on the field is not going to solve this problem right now, a price reduction seems like the right direction to push for?

gomesv
07-10-2011, 12:51 PM
I get the frustration here.....in one sense some are saying that a protest with your wallet will send the message..but if that happens the stadium is left empty and we all suffer with a lack of atomosphere......other's want to send the message before that happens......I think both sides are right... we all just want a full stadium at fair prices....
SG don't underestimate your value as to what you bring to the experience of us non supporters, because for now the football alone is not measuring up

rocktml
07-10-2011, 12:58 PM
There is no saving this team

tiberius
07-10-2011, 01:04 PM
I get the frustration here.....in one sense some are saying that a protest with your wallet will send the message..but if that happens the stadium is left empty and we all suffer with a lack of atomosphere......other's want to send the message before that happens......I think both sides are right... we all just want a full stadium at fair prices....
SG don't underestimate your value as to what you bring to the experience of us non supporters, because for now the football alone is not measuring up
^^100% agreement with above^^

- with emphasis on lets not underestimating supporter's impact on other fans, the FO and ticket sales over the long run. I get it - supporter burnout - that and "silence" is asking the supporter to withhold the core of their existence - it is too much to ask...

We will probably just have to wait until September renewal and then see how it all unfolds next year - it should be interesting.

TFC07
07-10-2011, 01:35 PM
Good god! Why do we have to restore back to protesting? Best way to send a message to FO is not to renew your season tickets and not buying overpriced shit at BMO field (not that I personally buy food and beer there since it's so damn expensive!).

ML$E is lucky they can get away with these sort crap in Toronto! If they were running a team in another city they would have been broke by now.

ensco
07-10-2011, 01:39 PM
But isn't success in the CCL what many want first and foremost?

I've read many threads on this board about how playoffs are not as important as CCL... that TFC should prioritize the CCL over the regular season... that TFC should give up on the season as we have no chance of playoffs and go all out for the CCL.

Or is that just playing into the owner's hands?

The FO strategy is to pray every night for CCL success, because that's one of the only possible stories they could have to tell at renewal time.

But on the question of pricing these games, they'll take a couple of empty stadiums as a worthwhile cost of a lottery ticket to see if they can keep the existing SSH pricing structure more or less together for next year (because dropping prices now will set a new expectations for 2012 pricing today).

james
07-10-2011, 02:21 PM
are protests dont work because we have never been organized enough. The North End Elite have probably been the most organized. But in the south end we tryed to be silent, yet hundreds of people did not understand what the silence protest means, half the fans still sang, even peopke in 112 were chanting. When people would tell them to shut up it was a silent protest we would have to expplain it to them and even then many didnt understand it, this sort of support is alian to most Canadians. We would have to be well organized to make it work.

tiberius
07-10-2011, 02:26 PM
are protests dont work because we have never been organized enough. The North End Elite have probably been the most organized. But in the south end we tryed to be silent, yet hundreds of people did not understand what the silence protest means, half the fans still sang, even peopke in 112 were chanting. It just didnt work, people were still making noise.

You are right - It is definitely easier for a smaller group like NEE to mount an effective campaign - trying to get most of the south end on the same page would be a miracle!

Nuvinho
07-10-2011, 03:22 PM
My first protest - after 5 years of buying every TFC game - 6 seats (4 in the expensive, and 2 in the supporters)....I have finally given up on giving MLSE more money (well for extra games). I am not buying the CCL qualifying game. I know they are going to call me and ask me why I haven't bought them yet. I will simply say - the product on the field doesn't warrant me paying more than I already have for this season.

The amount of tickets they sell for the CCL qualifying will definately give them an indication of what they will be seeing for renewals in Sept/Oct.

tiberius
07-10-2011, 03:57 PM
My first protest - ... I am not buying the CCL qualifying game.
...
The amount of tickets they sell for the CCL qualifying will definately give them an indication of what they will be seeing for renewals in Sept/Oct.

That probably is the best message the FO is going to get regarding September renewal / price point. Let's hope 4,500 show up for the Real Esteli game...

Waggy
07-10-2011, 04:15 PM
I would like to protest the lack of protests that we've had. How else is MLSE going to realise we're mad as hell and going to take it more and more!!


I havent given MLSE a penny in 2.5 years. It's surprisingly easy, and you feel good about yourself, like you've done something good for humanity. Or at least the city of Toronto and our community. Really want to protest? Help Ballsilie or that group of fans trying to bring a 2nd hockey team to the GTA. That'd get their attention.

james
07-10-2011, 04:19 PM
i would like to protest, but i jsut dont see it working due to us not being organized.

Oldtimer
07-10-2011, 05:30 PM
Any protest at this point will be ignored by the F.O.

If Season Ticket sales tank, then they will listen.

prizby
07-10-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't think protest is the right word here. The issue is:
- do we believe that a reduction is ticket pricing for 2012 will help this club in the long run?
- if so, what are the most effective means to communicate that message and to get that result?

Perhaps others feel that a letter from Boris to Tommy A. will effect the result we want?

i think that would be up to the members to discuss

denime
07-10-2011, 05:38 PM
I disagree with a protest. Its always a last resort. Honestly right now we have to see the year out.

AGREE 100% with you Roogsy !

I'M SURPRISED THIS THREAD IS STILL OPEN.

denime
07-10-2011, 05:38 PM
i think that would be up to the members to discuss

and THIS!

Whoop
07-10-2011, 05:43 PM
While there are some things you can do, ultimately the most effective (and really the easiest - in terms of time, mobilization, education, etc) is to not renew.

Oldtimer
07-10-2011, 05:44 PM
AGREE 100% with you Roogsy !

I'M SURPRISED THIS THREAD IS STILL OPEN.

I agree too.

tiberius
07-10-2011, 06:02 PM
AGREE 100% with you Roogsy !

I'M SURPRISED THIS THREAD IS STILL OPEN.


I agree too.

then close it... there is nothing worst that moderators threatening to close a thread... If you feel that that is the appropriate thing to do, then do it.

Alonso
07-10-2011, 07:26 PM
i think that would be up to the members to discuss


Isn't that what we are doing here?

He didn't unilaterally say this is what we are doing did he?

He's asking for discussion. I think he is making some good points here too.

Doing nothing and watching the train crash is the worst option imo.

Boris
07-10-2011, 07:46 PM
this group will not protest. end of.

I agree with what some people have already posted about seeing the year through. Yes, things arent ideal and things can get better but we are a supporters group, the 12th man - not a protest group.

james
07-10-2011, 07:50 PM
i agree, seeing the stadium completely empty is a bad way to go. Id rather try to convince FO to change there mind before we have to result to having empty stadiums. Empty stadium is just bad for TFC, bad for the supporters that really want to be at the games, be laughing stock of other supporters from other teams and is bad for FO as well and the whole organization. Really its just bad for everyone. However it is FOs fault if that was to happen, a train crash that they caused.

Bluenose13
07-10-2011, 07:55 PM
This is no time for another protest. Understand the frustration, but support the team & monitor the rebulid.

denime
07-10-2011, 07:56 PM
this group will not protest. end of.

I agree with what some people have already posted about seeing the year through. Yes, things arent ideal and things can get better but we are a supporters group, the 12th man - not a protest group.

and with that said this thread is closed.