PDA

View Full Version : Frei as Captain?



Parkdale
07-07-2011, 09:52 AM
with Santos/JDG out for the start of the game last night, the Captain's band was on Frei.

Do you think he should keep the band until someone else proves they deserve it more*?

(*thinking that only one of the Dp's could possibly deserve it more, but only after proving it)
You know what makes me think 'yay'..... after that match, when Frei had every right to walk right out of the stadium and into the Hudson River.... he still held himself with dignity and went and shook the refs hands. THAT is what makes a captain - leadership.

I know that some people say a captain needs to lead from the field, and not from the net, but I disagree with that. A playmaker can do his job without the band, and a real captain does more than that. He leads by example with dignity, even after a humiliating loss. My vote's for Frei.

ryan
07-07-2011, 09:56 AM
I don't like captain keepers personally. Either way a keeper is a vocal monster keeping shit in order and I believe we really need a leader out on the pitch not just in the net.

I think it's wasted on Frei because he'll be a leader with or without the band.

Don Julio
07-07-2011, 09:58 AM
If you can lead by examlple, with dignity, etc. then you can do so without an armband..

Never my first choice to have a keeper as captain, but Frei is not undeserving.

CSO_BBTB
07-07-2011, 10:02 AM
There's a saying that football is a team sport until the goalkeeper makes a mistake. It's the wrong position to be the captain because that underlying dynamic sets them apart from the other ten guys.

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 10:05 AM
If you can lead by examlple, with dignity, etc. then you can do so without an armband..

and if you can lead by making plays work (and maybe scoring / setting up goals) then you can do it up front without the band either.



so to anyone who voted 'nay' or 'mu' - Who would your choice be?

drewski
07-07-2011, 10:12 AM
club captain yes, on field captain no. he absolutely deserves both BUT the captain has to be able to deal with the ref at all times, and if play is at the other end of the field, its harder for Frei to be able to do that because he's a keeper.

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 10:24 AM
club captain yes, on field captain no. he absolutely deserves both BUT the captain has to be able to deal with the ref at all times, and if play is at the other end of the field, its harder for Frei to be able to do that because he's a keeper.

But that doesn't stop Marseille from using Steve Mandanda as their captain, or Spain from using Iker Casillas (to great effect)


and yes... I know TFC is like a million miles away from deserving a comparison to marseille, and a gazillion light years from Spain

Carts
07-07-2011, 10:41 AM
I don't like having the armband on the keeper personally...

My reasons are more because of communicating with officials...

If a ref wants to really stick to his guns and allow only captains to speak to him, you can be kinda screwed during controversial moments...

That's rare I know - but it can happen...

I prefer a the Captain to be involved in all aspects of the game - at almost all times. Which is the same reason I don't like a striker to wear the band, as often they come'n'go in the match - and aren't "in the play" always...

Finally, arguing the tough calls is difficult for a keeper...

He can't plead for a penalty at the far end of the pitch. I know you're not going to change a refs mind, but constant, professional, conversation goes a long way in "working" a ref. A keeper just can't do that from their position on the pitch...

Its just my personal opinion - I think a keeper leads from his position and actions, and being vocal with his team... Let someone else keep the dialog going with the official to work the game as much as possible...

Working the ref is an art - a keeper has enough to focus on without having to worry about that as well...

Carts...

Azerban
07-07-2011, 10:42 AM
the captain will be frings, thanks for reading my post guys!!

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 10:44 AM
the captain will be frings, thanks for reading my post guys!!

I only skimmed it.

yellowfellow
07-07-2011, 11:01 AM
I agree, Frings should be our captain.

sulfur
07-07-2011, 11:07 AM
I don't like having the armband on the keeper personally...

My reasons are more because of communicating with officials...

If a ref wants to really stick to his guns and allow only captains to speak to him, you can be kinda screwed during controversial moments...
Strictly speaking, according to the LotG, the captain's only duty is to be present for the coin toss. They have no special privileges with referees otherwise.

menefreghista
07-07-2011, 11:11 AM
Can Frings speak English? Well enough to captain an MLS team?

I agree with McCartney. I don't like having your keeper as the captain. I prefer the captain to be a midfielder.

As for TFC, I don't think we have anyone right now that I would make captain.

ExiledRed
07-07-2011, 11:16 AM
the captain will be frings, thanks for reading my post guys!!

This post is polite and accurate. I liked it.

ExiledRed
07-07-2011, 11:17 AM
I only skimmed it.

You should go back and read it again, its quality stuff.

Pinkie
07-07-2011, 11:18 AM
But that doesn't stop Marseille from using Steve Mandanda as their captain, or Spain from using Iker Casillas (to great effect)


or you know, oliver kahn.

not that frei is anything remotely like kahn...but its doable but i do see carts point as to why its a bit tricky to have a goalkeeper as a captain.

Whoop
07-07-2011, 11:19 AM
If Frings spoke English I could see him being the captain.

But not likely.

Brooker
07-07-2011, 11:24 AM
If Frings spoke English I could see him being the captain.

But not likely.

Yeah I was just about to say. Maybe he can bring that old lady onto the field to translate for him. Sign her up, Paul!

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 11:28 AM
yeah..... Frings is sight-unseen at the moment.

Sure he's 'captain material' but he might not fit into things here (or at least not yet).
Also not being fluent in English might present a big problem.

I think putting the band on someone who hasn't even played yet is premature.


thanks for reading my post guys!!

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 11:29 AM
...but its doable but i do see carts point as to why its a bit tricky to have a goalkeeper as a captain.

exactly!

it's tricky but FAR from impossible.

Klinsmann
07-07-2011, 11:36 AM
the captain will be frings, thanks for reading my post guys!!

^ THIS!

Azerban
07-07-2011, 11:36 AM
If Frings spoke English I could see him being the captain.

But not likely.

yeah i mean it's not like they've already set a precedent by giving the armband to a guy who can't speak english

oh wai

bertal
07-07-2011, 11:42 AM
the captaincy is nice and all... but there needs to be leaders in all aspects of the team: defense, midfield and the forwards of course.

plus, i really don't think we need to discuss the topic when our team is in dire straits

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 11:49 AM
plus, i really don't think we need to discuss the topic when our team is in dire straits


I only bring it up because Frei wore the band yesterday, and served the responsibility as well as possible (considering the situation)

just because the team sucks at the moment doesn't mean that all side issues should be forgotten.

BeerBaron95
07-07-2011, 11:56 AM
But that doesn't stop Marseille from using Steve Mandanda as their captain, or Spain from using Iker Casillas (to great effect)


and yes... I know TFC is like a million miles away from deserving a comparison to marseille, and a gazillion light years from Spain

Stop quoting Marseille in everything already man

Santos as cpt is not a bad choice... its just unlucky hes been hurt... Yes Frei is more a visual leader but Santos is wearing the armband and thats fine by me.

Parkdale
07-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Marseille


:coolgleam:


(it was as good an example as any)

__wowza
07-07-2011, 12:22 PM
the captain will be frings, thanks for reading my post guys!!


I only skimmed it.

i'm 12 years old and what is this?




i've rarely seen a scenario in the MLS where the ref only speaks to the team captains. as the counter-argument, many other people on the field can be given the un-official title of leader. they can also be given instructions to pass on by winter. communication can go through other channels, but leadership needs to be rewarded with captaincy.

you'll always hear about behaviour "unbecoming" of a captain, and it sure as hell isn't mentioned frequently when a player doesn't score goals or relay tactical information from the coach.

ryan
07-07-2011, 12:49 PM
give the arm band to De Klerk

DaBandit
07-07-2011, 01:00 PM
I think Santos will be gone via a trade (if healthy) for a CB by the time the DP's are ready to play on the 20th. That way Winter saves face by not having to take the armband away from him to give to Frings and he maybe able to shore up our CB spot.. I think Winter would be more than happy with Kouverman and Gordan up front. Just a hunch I could be way off..

bertal
07-07-2011, 01:37 PM
I only bring it up because Frei wore the band yesterday, and served the responsibility as well as possible (considering the situation)

just because the team sucks at the moment doesn't mean that all side issues should be forgotten.

I agree, he's done a fantastic job deputizing thus far. and i think i recall a thread where we were talking about jimmy b and robbo regarding the captaincy, where robbo was more of an onfield captain while jimmy b was more symbolic being the first player and so on.

but in terms of practicality, i cant see frei running straight to the ref in the oppositions half appealing why a free kick didn't go our way. lol

__wowza
07-07-2011, 01:47 PM
but in terms of practicality, i cant see frei running straight to the ref in the oppositions half appealing why a free kick didn't go our way. lol

i hear this argument a lot, but i'd assume that this could be the job of the vice-captain. i wouldn't think the ref would expect him to run up-field every time there's a debate. there's normally 4 or 5 players crowding the ref for every call anyway. why would they need the keeper?

prizby
07-07-2011, 03:02 PM
all this hate for a keeper as captain

remind me who captained the latest world cup champions?
how about the 2002 world cup finalist?

wasn't Dino Zoff the captain of a world cup champion team?

the only issue is if Frei tries to talk with the referee and he has to leave his box to do so, your going to have some stupid punk mls referee carding him for leaving the box; anyone who doesn't think that'd happen in this league is lost


but i'm behind frei for captain

DichioTFC
07-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Am not opposed to keepers having the armband in general, just feel it wouldn't work in our situation.

Honestly, if Frings is such a leader, why not just put the armband on him and give the squad a chance to start over?

Azerban
07-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Honestly, if Frings is such a leader, why not just put the armband on him and give the squad a chance to start over?

agreed, we should let the charismatic german lead us to glory

__wowza
07-07-2011, 03:43 PM
agreed, we should let the charismatic german lead us to glory

yeah! i agree. especially if he has an armband.

http://webservice.imagesauce.net/image/33308/400x.jpg

Stryker
07-07-2011, 10:13 PM
Honestly, if Frings is such a leader, why not just put the armband on him and give the squad a chance to start over?


agreed, we should let the charismatic german lead us to glory
Might have something to do with the fact that he doesn't speak a word of english.

Dave67
07-07-2011, 10:19 PM
Give the band to Ashtone. We could all use some Captain Morgan this year.

Jeffro
07-07-2011, 11:23 PM
Relevant to the keeper as captain discussion,

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/07/05/2560897/the-leaders-in-waiting-five-candidates-for-real-madrid-captaincy-

Perhaps Mourinho's not a fan of keeper captains?

Personally I would prefer the captain to be a defender or a mid, though I do feel Frei could make a decent captain.

swan
07-08-2011, 07:42 AM
i'm also not a fan of keepers being captain however i voted yay for one reason who else you going to give it to..

swan
07-08-2011, 07:44 AM
Am not opposed to keepers having the armband in general, just feel it wouldn't work in our situation.

Honestly, if Frings is such a leader, why not just put the armband on him and give the squad a chance to start over?



he can't speak english... how is he going to communicate with the players and ref.. thats a big job of a captain

Parkdale
07-08-2011, 07:45 AM
i'm also not a fan of keepers being captain however i voted yay for one reason who else you going to give it to..


that's kinda my thinking.

Frei has proven that he's got the character for it (over and over again) and no one else really has.

DichioTFC
07-08-2011, 09:41 PM
agreed, we should let the charismatic german lead us to glory


yeah! i agree. especially if he has an armband.




....


http://knowyourmeme.com/i/681/original/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

Azerban
07-08-2011, 09:51 PM
Might have something to do with the fact that he doesn't speak a word of english.

santos doesn't speak conversational english either

could've sworn i alluded to that earlier but i guess it just went whoooosh

ExiledRed
07-08-2011, 10:35 PM
santos doesn't speak conversational english either

could've sworn i alluded to that earlier but i guess it just went whoooosh

Yeah he could have at least pointed out that Santos isnt a good captain

Whoop
07-08-2011, 11:16 PM
santos doesn't speak conversational english either

could've sworn i alluded to that earlier but i guess it just went whoooosh

Santos at least speaks more English than Frings. And don't forget a number of refs in MLS speak Spanish, which Santos can argue with using Portuguese.

Either way, whoever gets the armband really isn't going to make a lick of difference on this team.

I would say Frings too if there is any indication he would be here beyond this season.

Whoop
07-08-2011, 11:17 PM
....


http://knowyourmeme.com/i/681/original/what-you-did-there-i-see-it.thumbnail.jpg

I caught that too. LOL

brad
07-08-2011, 11:21 PM
Giving it to Frings now is a bad idea. A captain needs to earn the respect of his team mates first hand on and off the pitch. Just handing that armband over to a new player based on past history, especially one that is making way more money than the rest of the squad is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

Whoop
07-08-2011, 11:26 PM
Philly did it with Mondragon and he's a keeper on top of that.

Though I kind of agree with you. If Frings were to be here next year, I think he would get it. Kind of like what NYRB did with Henry once Angel left.

The guys on this team should be respecting Frings. The key is does he respect them back. But Frings definitely is a leader. It will be interesting to see how he meshes with the team.

Roogsy
07-08-2011, 11:31 PM
You don't need an armband to have the player's respect.

How many times did Danny Dichio wear the armband?

I continue to believe that this issue is overrated.

Whoop
07-08-2011, 11:52 PM
True... but the captain should be respected. Or usually the most respected guy.

If it's voted on by the players it's one thing.

If it's selected by the coaching staff it's another.

I think that's been part of the problem with TFC in the past. The captain of the team normally wasn't the guy I think the teammates wanted.

But in reality the two new guys should have the respect of their teammates especially given what they have accomplished in their careers. The thing is always... do they respect their teammates?

If they thing they're "above" their MLS counterparts... that's a way bigger issue than who has the armband. And if they do that... odds are they'll start losing the respect of their teammates.

It's also in the personality too. I get the impression (my opinion) that a guy like JDG, which his resume, isn't as well respected as he should. a) He doesn't have a commanding personality and b) his teammates probably feel that he thinks he's above them - like he's here as a last resort.

There are a lot of nuances with leadership and team chemistry.

But the armband should be treated with respect and should be held in esteem and not used as to appease someone or the fanbase or as some ceremonial badge.

I definitely don't think it's overrated.

Roogsy
07-09-2011, 12:09 AM
Nuances yes.

Which is why the armband itself is not a simple answer to "leadership" in a lockerroom. You don't solve the leadership issue but luckily taking a stab at who to give the armband to. A good team has several leaders, not just one. And when you have trouble picking from several as opposed to having problems even finding one to choose, that's when you know you've done well.

Whoop
07-09-2011, 12:24 AM
Agreed.

C.Barrett19
07-09-2011, 06:59 PM
no way :) should be like nhl goalie can be captain but not wear the c how they suppose to communicate with ref?

Hitcho
07-10-2011, 12:22 AM
Right now, I'd just settle for Frei not leaving the team and be grateful for it...

C.Barrett19
07-10-2011, 12:50 AM
Grateful for what not leaving? The best he can do is play for another mls team or maybe 3rd division in europe which is the same as mls. He's not good enough to go to europe at least 1st division.

Parkdale
07-10-2011, 07:50 AM
Grateful for what not leaving? The best he can do is play for another mls team or maybe 3rd division in europe which is the same as mls. He's not good enough to go to europe at least 1st division.

you do realise there's a '2nd division' in there too?

I think Frei would be fine in France or Germany, just not on one of the 'top 4' clubs from those leagues. And somewhere like Ligue2 in France..... he'd be fine.

Fort York Redcoat
07-12-2011, 08:53 AM
Grateful for what not leaving? The best he can do is play for another mls team or maybe 3rd division in europe which is the same as mls. He's not good enough to go to europe at least 1st division.

Riiiight. Because first division "Europe" is better than MLS. Look harder.


I'd like to see him go (if he has to) to Basel where his cousin plays.