DeRo traded to DC!

[thisisinternetclash]

Don't see a thread on this yet: http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/2011/06/red-bulls-acquire-midfielder-dax-mccarty-dc-united

[prizby]

i just saw this on twitter!

[DOMIN8R]

Don't you mean Dax MCarthy? Oooops. I stand corrected.

[prizby]

DeRo must be loving the moving

[DichioTFC]

just saw it on facebook - mls smack talk.

knowing that dero has no chance at the mls cup makes me extremely happy. fuck yes i'm a hater.

[werewolf]

silly for DC. Must really want to push for a playoff spot this year, doesnt make much sense for a team that low in the standings to trade away a top young player in the league (unless he is on his way to Europe soon).

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Hmm New york Clearing the way......someone big is coming to the Shitebull....

[madcow]

Despite all the BS, posturing and double talk from every corner. I count Dero as one of the few players I miss most which include DannyD and Robbo. In my opinion they each contributed to my overall gameday experience in a positive way.

[rocktml]

wow!....

[Yohan]

silly for DC. Must really want to push for a playoff spot this year, doesnt make much sense for a team that low in the standings to trade away a top young player in the league (unless he is on his way to Europe soon).
I dunno. It does sound like a short term push for DC. I think they are trying to ride on Charlie Davies to make the playoffs and with DeRo to push as hard as possible

I'd still say NYRB wins on this trade as Dax McCarty may be the next Stuart Holden.

[DichioTFC]

NYRB totally won this trade. DeRo is a shell of his former self and a locker room cancer in every city he's gone - probably with the exception of NY considering how short his time there has been

[thisisinternetclash]

He's only a year or two younger than Holden though, right? I can't see McCarty winning player of the year at a Premier League club in 12 months, to be fair. Still, aggressive move by DC . . . Really surprising stuff.

[jabbronies]

didn't see that coming... Where's Roosgy?

[ryan]

wow...NY must be up to something.

[DichioTFC]

^preparing to move to DC

[bgnewf]

What the heck am I going to do with a 12 foot novelty cheque made out to DeRo. Wuth DCU already having visited that means he won't be suiting up against TFC at BMO


This is a pure salary dump so they can sign another DP and Dax McCarthy is a nice piece to receive in return. I would rather have McCarthy over both Tchani and Borman.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

wow...NY must be up to something.


Robert Pires!!

[Yohan]

He's only a year or two younger than Holden though, right? I can't see McCarty winning player of the year at a Premier League club in 12 months, to be fair. Still, aggressive move by DC . . . Really surprising stuff.
I know I'd be very happy with Dax McCarty running AM spot for TFC. has a lot of potential and plays two ways. I don't know why he's being bounced around a lot, but I think his inconsistency at times might be doing it

[DichioTFC]

What the heck am I going to do with a 12 foot novelty cheque made out to DeRo. Wuth DCU already having visited that means he won't be suiting up against TFC at BMO


This is a pure salary dump so they can sign another DP and Dax McCarthy is a nice piece to receive in return. I would rather have McCarthy over both Tchani and Borman.

Aug 6, TFC go to DCU ;)

I agree its a salary dump, but I think its also a sign of good ownership. They knew DeRo is a depreciating asset whose value will never be as high as it is right now.

IMO, NYRB got a huge win getting Dax but Tchani / Borman suit our needs very well, so I'd say I'm satisfied with the DeRo trade.

[Oldtimer]

I guess New York didn't want to sign his cheque.... maybe DC will give him DP money.... or maybe not.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I dunno. It does sound like a short term push for DC. I think they are trying to ride on Charlie Davies to make the playoffs and with DeRo to push as hard as possible

I'd still say NYRB wins on this trade as Dax McCarty may be the next Stuart Holden.

lol no. completely different players too.

But I would agree they won the trade - mostly cause of the opportunity cost associated with having DeRo on the payroll rather than another DP.

I have to think NYRB isn't satisfied where they are and are going to get another big name this summer.

[PopePouri]

Aug 6, TFC go to DCU ;)

I agree its a salary dump, but I think its also a sign of good ownership. They knew DeRo is a depreciating asset whose value will never be as high as it is right now.


I'd say it's already diminished. Age has caught up to him and he's not as sharp as he was.

[DichioTFC]

^ I'd agree

[Darlofletch]

for all the talk about de ro being selfish and not contributing to the team as a whole etc etc. - he didn't really get that many goals in NY, but they certainly did well with him in the team.

very interesting move for pretty much all sides.

[torontocelt]

I'd say it's already diminished. Age has caught up to him and he's not as sharp as he was.

Dero stats this season:

New York:

13 games , 2 goals, 4 assists.

TFC:

2 games , 1 goal, 1 Assist.

Canada

3 games, 2 goals, both pens though.

I wish TFC had some more washed up players like him.

[TOBOR !]

What the heck am I going to do with a 12 foot novelty cheque made out to DeRo.

El O'El.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

It's an interesting move, that only really makes sense if it's setting up something else during the transfer window. I recall reading they're looking for centre forward.

[DichioTFC]

Anyone think NYRB would be interested in our DP defensive mid?

[bignickel]

Dero stats this season:

New York:

13 games , 2 goals, 4 assists.

TFC:

2 games , 1 goal, 1 Assist.

Canada

3 games, 2 goals, both pens though.

I wish TFC had some more washed up players like him.

Just a note, 2 of those 3 league goals were also penalty shots.
1 regular time goal in 18 games, hmm.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I know this isn't a popular sentiment, but I quite like NYRB. I'd say they're my second favourite MLS team. Anyone ever watch their team in Austria, there not too bad either.

[Shep]

Aug 6, TFC go to DCU ;)

...


he said suiting up against TFC at BMO. We won't see him at home this season, any plans are now gone.

[ginkster88]

So...

We could have had Dax McCarthy right now?

[Auzzy]

So...

We could have had Dax McCarthy right now?

It's a trade DC wanted to do now for whatever reason; wasn't available at the beginning of the season. DeRo was shopped around by TFC, so they probably got the best trade they could.

[torontocelt]

Just a note, 2 of those 3 league goals were also penalty shots.
1 regular time goal in 18 games, hmm.

A goal is a goal, doesn't matter how you get them. When they are giving out the golden boot etc they don't say a penalty is worth less than an ordinary goal, they are all worth the same.

Still the point stands, some may not like him but he is still far from diminished, lets give the guy some credit.

[ginkster88]

It's a trade DC wanted to do now for whatever reason; wasn't available at the beginning of the season. DeRo was shopped around by TFC, so they probably got the best trade they could.

To your first point: Obviously, but I'm just saying.

To that last statement: I mean you'd hope that's what they did. But this is TFC.

[Auzzy]

^ Yes, you're very right, I should have said "they hopefully got the best trade they could." I added the "probably" later but it wasn't enough. :D

[kodiakTFC]

This has to be for NY to clear up cap space before the transfer window.

[Chevy]

NYRB totally won this trade. DeRo is a shell of his former self and a locker room cancer in every city he's gone - probably with the exception of NY considering how short his time there has been

Dude, you're starting to sound like me. :facepalm:

[ManUtd4ever]

Wow, that didn't take long...

[brad]

It's a trade DC wanted to do now for whatever reason; wasn't available at the beginning of the season. DeRo was shopped around by TFC, so they probably got the best trade they could.

And they might have deemed the trade they made better than the trade with DC.

We got Tchani who is considered one of if not the best prospect in the MLS by a lot of folks, and his salary doesn't count against the cap. Makes even more sense for a team buildin for the future. We got a serviceable MLS calibre fullback, and a draft pick. All of that makes a lot of sense to me.

[Suds]

I see the speculation this is a move mainly to clear some cap space ... does anyone have an idea of how much cap space this gives NYRB?

[denime]

I think he is becoming a journey player of MLS at the old age,not nice way to finish the carrier.
I can see him being traded again before next season starts.

[brad]

I think he is becoming a journey player of MLS at the old age,not nice way to finish the carrier.
I can see him being traded again before next season starts.

For sure. He's expensive and getting older. I can see it becoming a game of hot potato - no one is going to want to be stuck holding DeRo's contract when his production tails off.

[Thomas]

NYRB totally won this trade. DeRo is a shell of his former self and a locker room cancer in every city he's gone - probably with the exception of NY considering how short his time there has been
Nothing will take away the contributions Dero made to our team. Having said that, I'm not sad he is gone, and NY is obviously not overly enthusiastic with him either. DCU got the better of the deal.

[arsenal]

I see the speculation this is a move mainly to clear some cap space ... does anyone have an idea of how much cap space this gives NYRB?

Seem to recall many of the "Dero" people claiming at the time of the trade to NYRB that we were eating a major portion of his salary ..... which (if true?) would mean they didn't free up much cap space.

[tfcleeds]

Wow...that's all I've got to say at the moment.

[ensco]

I think Dero going to the Gold Cup must have torqued Backe. Backe was pretty public about that.

[Pigfynn]

Wow, that NYRB organization really fucks it's players around eh?

What a terrible organization, I mean they would have to be to trade for the all mighty Dero only to turn around a few short months later and trade him away, right?

I mean the guy and all his business and family and blah, blah ,blah had to move to NY only to be sent packing just as he got settled. Man! that damn NYRB FO and their mistreatment.


:noidea:

[Suds]

Seem to recall many of the "Dero" people claiming at the time of the trade to NYRB that we were eating a major portion of his salary ..... which (if true?) would mean they didn't free up much cap space.

That's what I recall, though, I don't think there was ever confirmation as to how much salary TFC was still paying - if any. If this is the case then it's not really not going to be that much cap relief.

I think this is just two club tweaking their line-up to what they each think will better them heading into the summer months. This is generally when MLS teams rise or fall and we start to see who the contenders and pretenders are for the playoffs.

[tfcleeds]

Formation shift ahead for RBNY?

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/06/27/armchair-analyst-formation-shift-ahead-rbny

[DangerRed]

just saw it on facebook - mls smack talk.

knowing that dero has no chance at the mls cup makes me extremely happy. fuck yes i'm a hater.

Now why would you go and say that? It's a jinx. Now that you've said it, that diving cunt Davies will hoist the cup on top of the model Toyota before the year is out.

[DangerRed]

As for D-Money himself, there you have it: you're aging, you're a commodity, and today shows you what the market thinks you're worth. I wish you all the best and if you still can, I'd go to Celtic.

[Yeoman]

I see the speculation this is a move mainly to clear some cap space ... does anyone have an idea of how much cap space this gives NYRB?

can't be a hole lot since we're on the hook for half of deros salary still are we not?
all this to avoid coming to BMO to play against TFC? that's a desperate measure that i can conceed to.

[Technorgasm]

he'll tear this league apart. . . .

[prizby]

What the heck am I going to do with a 12 foot novelty cheque made out to DeRo. Wuth DCU already having visited that means he won't be suiting up against TFC at BMO


This is a pure salary dump so they can sign another DP and Dax McCarthy is a nice piece to receive in return. I would rather have McCarthy over both Tchani and Borman.

is it a salary dump?

DeRo is what, $425,000
Dax is $175,000

how much of DeRo's salary are we paying? maybe half?

so that means its really only a dump of $37,500...

[Yeoman]

random dero fact
he'll play portland, again, for a third team this season

[whyalwaysme11]

I think he is becoming a journey player of MLS at the old age,not nice way to finish the carrier.
I can see him being traded again before next season starts.

100% agree.
although i would kill to be on any mls team at any given time of my life its a shame the way he wii end his career only because just a year ago he had it all here with us i said it before... hometown hero, and captain what more can you ask for. then he betrayed us by training with celtic... who knows what mlse did to him but it couldn't of been that bad.

de Guzman is next to go.

see you all wed.

[Stryker]

Hahaha, sorry about your luck DeRo. Oh wait, no I'm not.

[bignickel]

100% agree.
although i would kill to be on any mls team at any given time of my life its a shame the way he wii end his career only because just a year ago he had it all here with us i said it before... hometown hero, and captain what more can you ask for. then he betrayed us by training with celtic... who knows what mlse did to him but it couldn't of been that bad.

de Guzman is next to go.

see you all wed.

It is too bad for him, had he stayed with tfc he would have made 400k+ a year for a long time for all the reasons you mention above, not to mention post playing gigs a la brennan and danger danny. doubt he will ever see that money again.
Great player, poor business sense. He will never be as marketable as he was here.

[Voodooman]

Oh wow very surprised. But that means he won't visit BMO than :(, oh well.

[Juanito]

Oh wow very surprised. But that means he won't visit BMO than :(, oh well.

Probably for the best. Our membership does not need any more excuses to rip each others throats, so I'm happy we won't have to see De Rosario again this season.

[brad]

is it a salary dump?

DeRo is what, $425,000
Dax is $175,000

how much of DeRo's salary are we paying? maybe half?

so that means its really only a dump of $37,500...

Hard to say. Maybe DC are covering part of Dax's salary. Maybe NY freed up whatever space they needed to make room for the cap hit for a half season DP.

[rocker]

reading the NYRB fans' comments, they weren't too happy with De Ro.

[brad]

reading the NYRB fans' comments, they weren't too happy with De Ro.

What was their issue(s) with him?

[TFCRegina]

Maybe we can trick DC into taking Tchani and Borman.

[Oldtimer]

It is too bad for him, had he stayed with tfc he would have made 400k+ a year for a long time for all the reasons you mention above, not to mention post playing gigs a la brennan and danger danny. doubt he will ever see that money again.
Great player, poor business sense. He will never be as marketable as he was here.

A good point.

He has probably lost quite a bit in potential endorsement income.

He wanted the big paycheque. Who doesn't? He also saw guys like Mista being overpaid while he was doing the hard work. Resentment builds, and it isn't always totally rational. Factor in MoJo allegedly lying to him and you have an unsolveable solution.

I'm not sure that Winter could have done anything. I'm pretty sure Anselmi was not going to allow him DP money.

If a Canadian team wouldn't give it to him, no MLS team will. His only hope for the big bucks is overseas, and he's getting too old for that.

[Whoop]

Saw it. Not surprised in that DeRo was the piece that could get the most in return for NYRB in they needed to make a trade.

Never believed they would give him DP money, figure they want to make another splash in the coming weeks.

[TFCRegina]

Don't know why NYers wouldn't be happy with him.


The Canadian wizard’s own numbers weren’t overwhelming, but prorate his NY stats over the course of the season and he’d contribute six goals and 12 assists. Not bad for a guy who was largely meant to create opportunities for Thierry Henry and Luke Rodgers — neither of whom had a goal before De Rosario joined the Red Bulls, and both of whom are now amongst the league’s leading scorers.

[dawkins]

Maybe we can trick DC into taking Tchani and Borman.

I have to say that i think Tchani is totally worth the dero trade. that fact that we got borman with the trade just makes it a little better.

[Pookie]

Given that NYRB brought him in to "win now" there sure is an interesting story waiting to be told behind this turn of events.

The salary dump is minimal. Ultimately, they still want to win now and have determined that they have a better shot at doing that without him. Points to declining production, attitude and/or a better option on the transfer market.

Either or sounds like Winter isn't the only one to conclude that he isn't a foundation of a franchise worthy of DP dollars.

As much as I didnt shed a tear when he demanded his trade, I am surprised at this move. I wonder who requested the deal?

[Oblio2]

Im in DC for 10 days this Thursday...are they playing at home?

[habstfc]

Geez guys leave the guy alone. I wasn't too happy with the distraction he ended up becoming ( Cheque signing etc.) but when he was here he wore his heart on his sleeve and performed very well. The guy had some flaws like hogging the ball a bit too much but to say he's over the hill a year after scoring 14 goals is a bit much.

I do agree however that he blew it big time from a sponsorship and endorsements point of view, toronto is probably the only city where he could make some good coin off the pitch.

[SoccMan]

Some of you people out here just kill me. I understand that most of you out here did not know what the MLS was before TFC came into being,however, let me just remind you that DeRo did win a few MLS championships in his career, where he was one of the star players of those champioship winning teams he played on, and scored a few game winning goals in a few of those MLS Cups he played in, therefore, I don't think players who our cancerous to their teams can acomplish what DeRo has, just saying!

[jabbronies]

Im in DC for 10 days this Thursday...are they playing at home?

I'll be in ny in july when DC visit the shite bulls. Probably going to go to that game.

[jazzy]

[QUOTE=torontocelt;1328503]A goal is a goal, doesn't matter how you get them. When they are giving out the golden boot etc they don't say a penalty is worth less than an ordinary goal, they are all worth the same.


^.....this.............and we are where now?.....anyone think we would have been totally dominated as we have been........we have zero threats...only Gordon who is looking fragile.....and our heart ON THE FIELD is where?

[QSIM]

Oh wow very surprised. But that means he won't visit BMO than :(, oh well.

thats okay, he probably would've bagged a brace.

[nascarguy]

I'm happy that ny kick his dumb ass out

[bignickel]

Some of you people out here just kill me. I understand that most of you out here did not know what the MLS was before TFC came into being,however, let me just remind you that DeRo did win a few MLS championships in his career, where he was one of the star players of those champioship winning teams he played on, and scored a few game winning goals in a few of those MLS Cups he played in, therefore, I don't think players who our cancerous to their teams can acomplish what DeRo has, just saying!

Players with the great accolades you highlight above don't get traded twice in 13 games (one of them being your hometown)
Just saying!

[menefreghista]

I think Dero going to the Gold Cup must have torqued Backe. Backe was pretty public about that.

This is the most likely scenario here.

Honestly, I wish TFC found a way to keep De Rosario. I don't give a shit about all the off-field bullshit. We would have been a way better team had we kept him.

[Kevvv]

Dero was the number one guy on TFC, except by salary, and not the number one guy in NY by either measure. Maybe he's better suited, mentally or professionally, to be more than just a role player and to be in the limelight.

Sounds like many DC and NY fans are happy with the trade, which of course could mean that two of our division rivals get better while TFC founders.

[CSO_BBTB]

Some of you people out here just kill me. I understand that most of you out here did not know what the MLS was before TFC came into being,however, let me just remind you that DeRo did win a few MLS championships in his career,...players who our cancerous to their teams can acomplish what DeRo has, just saying!

Agree about the lack of knowledge of MLS history amongst many/most TFC fans but maybe the two postures aren't mutually exclusive in this instance? After initially being happy to have his career very much rescued by Frank Yallop, maybe the problems with DeRosario started after his return from the trials over in England with clubs like Man City and Blackburn. He was probably anticipating an eventual big money move to a big European league or Landon Donovan (ex-Quakes teammate) type money for MLS to retain his services. Houston got one last really successful year out of him in 2006 but after signing his next deal with MLS for the standard league maximum things seemed to turn sour and the rumours of being unsettled due to wanting more money started. That's arguably why he wound up with TFC for the MLS equivalent of a "used puck bag".

[TFC USA]

Fuck this stupid Dero bullshit

We wouldn't have ever sniffed the playoffs in years 3 and 4 if not for him hauling the team's entire ass on his back.

Your anger is misguided. Why the hell would any player of his quality stay on our sinking ship?

[CSO_BBTB]

Year 4 I agree but in year 3 Amado Guevara was the main man in terms of creativity a lot of the time. After year 3 there was a serious salary cap issue due to the amount of Mo Edu transfer related allocation money used previously to circumvent the cap. Too bad Preki hated Guevara so much due to what happened at Chivas. In retrospect the wrong high paid contract was dumped.

[Auzzy]

And they might have deemed the trade they made better than the trade with DC.

We got Tchani who is considered one of if not the best prospect in the MLS by a lot of folks, and his salary doesn't count against the cap. Makes even more sense for a team buildin for the future. We got a serviceable MLS calibre fullback, and a draft pick. All of that makes a lot of sense to me.

Probably, we shall see. Plus DC definitely weren't offering Dax at the beginning of the season. They had just acquired him & were expecting lots. Didn't work out for them.

[Stryker]

Guess he won't be taking pot shots at TFC on twitter for a while... what with him being so busy eating humble pie and all.
Looks good on him.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I think NY was getting their money's worth out of him. If he pissed people off going to Gold Cup then I'm proud of him. Wish there was more execution that tournament but if he was punished for attending then I have 2 fingers for NY. I'd think it's now or never if he wants out of the league.

[denime]

I think NY was getting their money's worth out of him. If he pissed people off going to Gold Cup then I'm proud of him. Wish there was more execution that tournament but if he was punished for attending then I have 2 fingers for NY. I'd think it's now or never if he wants out of the league.

From MLS he can go only to retirement,
or play for peanuts in some lover European league where players like him just 10 years younger are dime a dozen.

[__wowza]

another reason to hate united?

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/104/603/YESS%21%21.gif?1299712475

[ManUtd4ever]

I think Dero going to the Gold Cup must have torqued Backe. Backe was pretty public about that.

I suspect you're right, which would be a serious indictment of the Red Bulls as an organization. A player should never be scrutinized for making the decision to play for his country.

[brad]

Probably, we shall see. Plus DC definitely weren't offering Dax at the beginning of the season. They had just acquired him & were expecting lots. Didn't work out for them.

As they say, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to judge after the fact, but based on the way things looked at the time of the trade, it seemed like a solid move to me.

[TorontoBlades]

All in all I guess his dream of DP money is gone now...

[__wowza]

surprising that some people are shocked about this, they were shopping for dero when we initially put him up, but here's what united fans are saying:



I do not approve. Dero is a head case. 3 teams in a half a ********ing year. jersey wouldn't get rid of him to a potential playoff rival if he was going to be good for us. Clearly he isn't working there. ******** ******** ********

Wow wow wow!!!! That's a fantastic trade!!! This is almost a Roy for Roy part deux.

this is a weird one... deRo is still a very good player, but for how long?

whereas, we were supposed to build our team around dax for the next 10 years... i know it hasn't gone as well as we wanted with him, but why pull the plug so quickly?

I just hope DeRo has something left in the tank - if he does I can really see him being successful in pulling the strings on our young attack - because our attackers ARE making the right runs, etc. We also have someone other than Najar who can take freekicks now.

I have never been a fan of De Ro. Sorry. Add to that the 33 year old "sell by date" on the side of his carton and I leery. Sorry end of the day I cannot get excited about this trade.

Even if we don't seriously contend in the next couple years, playing along side DeRo will immediately speed up the development of our young players, not to mention putting butts in the seats.

Good trade. I ********ing hate DeRo though.

[Gazza]

Wish we knew De Ro was on the block. We could've traded Tchani and Borman for him.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Tchani's fine and will only get better.
Dunno bout Borman, hes mostly just a bench player getting alot of playing time right now cuz we dont have anyone to play his position

[brad]

Tchani's fine and will only get better.
Dunno bout Borman, hes mostly just a bench player getting alot of playing time right now cuz we dont have anyone to play his position

I think Borman is a more than acceptable fullback in the MLS. not great, but serviceable. In a tightly capped league, you are are going to have to accept a lower standard in some positions.

[whyalwaysme11]

It is too bad for him, had he stayed with tfc he would have made 400k+ a year for a long time for all the reasons you mention above, not to mention post playing gigs a la brennan and danger danny. doubt he will ever see that money again.
Great player, poor business sense. He will never be as marketable as he was here.


"post playing gigs a la brennan and danger danny."

5000% AGREE... THIS DIDNT EVEN CROSS MY MIND.
HE COULD OF MADE A DEAL LIKE TOTTI DID WITH ROMA
10 YEARS PLAY FOR 3 OR 4 THEN 6 - 7 YEARS IN THE OFFICE

[PopePouri]

I think Borman is a more than acceptable fullback in the MLS. not great, but serviceable. In a tightly capped league, you are are going to have to accept a lower standard in some positions.

For $42 000/year absolutely. If we compare him to Gargan who plays a similar role and earns a little more, Borman is way better.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For $42 000/year absolutely. If we compare him to Gargan who plays a similar role and earns a little more, Borman is way better.

oh yeah, i just think we can do better, i dont even mind borman ftr

[bertal]

what a fall from grace

[rocker]

Why the hell would any player of his quality stay on our sinking ship?

Here's a better question:

Why the hell would any player of his quality get traded to a rival by a good team in the middle of the season?

It's one thing for a bad team to trade De Ro but the team that wanted him then dumps him mid season? What does that say about De Ro? I would say it says De Ro isn't the keep-at-all-costs type of player that many TFC fans think he is. The NYRB have clearly shown that opinion.

[Azerban]

pass the dero 'pon the left hand side

[__wowza]

"post playing gigs a la brennan and danger danny."

5000% AGREE... THIS DIDNT EVEN CROSS MY MIND.
HE COULD OF MADE A DEAL LIKE TOTTI DID WITH ROMA
10 YEARS PLAY FOR 3 OR 4 THEN 6 - 7 YEARS IN THE OFFICE

new contest:

NAME CLASSES FORMER TFC PLAYERS WOULD RUN AT THE ACADEMY

winner gets a beer.

[__wowza]

pass the dero 'pon the left hand side

and you joke, but don't forget that dero used to look like this:

http://i.imm.io/6TVf.jpeg


i'll also just leave this here:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYTzhy1dF-dkOGETyezvgofQeCnyygnBjX5gTCKv0t70720GdyHA

[Chevy]

Here's a better question:

Why the hell would any player of his quality get traded to a rival by a good team in the middle of the season?

It's one thing for a bad team to trade De Ro but the team that wanted him then dumps him mid season? What does that say about De Ro? I would say it says De Ro isn't the keep-at-all-costs type of player that many TFC fans think he is. The NYRB have clearly shown that opinion.

Seemed like a good fit for him in NY although their supporters arent exactly rioting over the fact that he's gone. My assumption is that the nat team duties made him over-valued based on his salary and the games he would actually play in.

Basically they were paying him $400k for part-time or 3/4 time work as he was away for the Gold Cup and could possibly be away for WC qualifying. That amounts to a player value of nealry $800k, making him expendable.

My guess here is that they will bring in a midfileder that won't have nat team committments and give him a lower-end DP contract. Obviously NYRB will need to spend the extra cash but would effectively increase the value of the squad on the pitch.

My underlying point here is that this is proof that he's not the million dollar a year player that he thinks he is. :hide:

[drewski]

All in all I guess his dream of DP money is gone now...


there's always the Limpact.

[Chevy]

new contest:

NAME CLASSES FORMER TFC PLAYERS WOULD RUN AT THE ACADEMY

winner gets a beer.

"How to eat a whole pie without using your hands" - Colin Samuel

"How to stay still for 90 minutes" - Nick Garcia w/special Guest Instructor Mista.

[Azerban]

and you joke


i've never joked in my life, sir

[menefreghista]

Basically they were paying him $400k for part-time or 3/4 time work as he was away for the Gold Cup and could possibly be away for WC qualifying. That amounts to a player value of nealry $800k, making him expendable

The thing is nobody really knows how much TFC is paying of De Rosario's salary. Half is probably a good guess (my guess is whatever number makes the De Rosario for Tchani and Borman trade neutral to each team's cap).

I know its cool to hate De Rosario here, but if the speculation is true that he lost favour in New York because he had the audacity to play for Canada in the Gold Cup, than that just makes me respect De Rosario even more.

[Roogsy]

Sometimes it's not about losing favour or falling short of expectations. Sometimes teams identify needs and make moves. People are reading too much into this trade.

[__wowza]

"How to eat a whole pie without using your hands" - Colin Samuel

"How to stay still for 90 minutes" - Nick Garcia w/special Guest Instructor Mista.


translational locomotion of an object in respect to a surface with ricketts

[Suds]

Sometimes it's not about losing favour or falling short of expectations. Sometimes teams identify needs and make moves. People are reading too much into this trade.

Agreed.

As I posted earlier, the most obvious and likely reason for the trade is two teams tweaking their roster.

[flambe]

translational locomotion of an object in respect to a surface with ricketts

A book reading of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" with guest, Mo Johnson

[Pookie]

National team duties were known at the time of the original Toronto to NY deal though, weren't they? It's not like it is something new.

At the end of the day, the trade is simple. The NYRB want to win now and don't believe they can do it with DeRosario and would prefer to use his roster spot to acquire something else. You can conclude that DeRo didn't live up to his hype or simply that the Red Bulls have deeper needs they need to address and took a chance to clear a roster spot. Either or he wasn't seen as a key piece of their Cup drive therefore was expendable.

A couple of reporters in NY are claiming that DeRo was expecting a DP contract at the season's end and the NYRB's decided that his current production just wasn't going to be enough to meet those demands. Rather than find themselves in the same place Winter did, they cut their losses. And their losses of Tchani, Borman and a 1st round pick are pretty high at the moment. I suspect more will emerge on this story over time. DeRo's twitter is surprisingly silent over the last 24 hours.

For me, this just reinforces the view that DeRo was not capable of leading a team given his age, baggage and future expectations. I am VERY happy that Winter did not cave and dish out a multi-year DP contract on a marginal return. We already have one of those.

[menefreghista]

the Red Bulls have deeper needs they need to address and took a chance to clear a roster spot.

They didn't clear a roster spot though, they picked up a player in return.

[brad]

It's also possible that the NY had a better option made available to them in this coming transfer window, and they moved DeRo to open up cap space for that. It could have nothing to do with his performances or attitude.

[Menelaos]

National team duties were known at the time of the original Toronto to NY deal though, weren't they? It's not like it is something new.



And...

Dero is not the only player the Bulls lost to the Cup.
Some guy named Rafa was gone, won the cup, and may have an injury because of it.

I think the NYC media might have been more pre-occupies with the 5 Mil a year guy then the old Canadian guy.

[Roogsy]

National team duties were known at the time of the original Toronto to NY deal though, weren't they? It's not like it is something new.

At the end of the day, the trade is simple. The NYRB want to win now and don't believe they can do it with DeRosario and would prefer to use his roster spot to acquire something else. You can conclude that DeRo didn't live up to his hype or simply that the Red Bulls have deeper needs they need to address and took a chance to clear a roster spot. Either or he wasn't seen as a key piece of their Cup drive therefore was expendable.

A couple of reporters in NY are claiming that DeRo was expecting a DP contract at the season's end and the NYRB's decided that his current production just wasn't going to be enough to meet those demands. Rather than find themselves in the same place Winter did, they cut their losses. And their losses of Tchani, Borman and a 1st round pick are pretty high at the moment. I suspect more will emerge on this story over time. DeRo's twitter is surprisingly silent over the last 24 hours.

For me, this just reinforces the view that DeRo was not capable of leading a team given his age, baggage and future expectations. I am VERY happy that Winter did not cave and dish out a multi-year DP contract on a marginal return. We already have one of those.

This is the part where rumours become commonly accepted facts without any evidence.

DeRo was not making any demands of NYRB. Where the negotiations at the end of the year would have gone is anyone's guess but anyone stating that DeRo was already making demands about the kind of contract to be negotiated is just making stuff up. He's been too busy playing for both NY and CMNT not to mention his family STILL not being down in NY while they were taking care of things in Toronto. There hasn't been TIME to discuss the contract, which wasn't on the agenda until the end of the year, both sides had already agreed.

As for "living up to the hype", that is more a product of fan opinion than coach opinion. I spoke with Backe last month and he was happy with the production from DeRo because he was brought in as a "setup man". With NYRB scoring more goals than anyone in the league, including the front-running LA Galaxy, Backe is not displeased with his forwards, any of them and it is a complete reach to say that the coach believes he hasn't "lived up to the hype" when he has done what the coach has asked him to do.

Anyone with even a minimal amount of viewing time of NY knows that what the team has struggled to do is keep goals out. And look what they traded for, a Defensive Midfielder! So really, how unbelievable is it to simply see this as two teams addressing needs they have identified as being necessary to take the next step? DC has a decent attack but is still middle of the pack and McCarty hasn't fit well. NY has an awesome attack, one that probably will be affected in only a small way with DeRo's departure but they get a better option at DM, hopefully helping them turn all high-scoring ties into wins. Especially since they lost some unknown player named Rafa Marquez to injury. Surely that didn't play a part in this decision? Naaaaah...it was the chicken dance.

Pookie, anything short of an MLS Cup would have "reinforced" to you that DeRo couldn't do this, that or the other. The only proof that is worth anything is the standings and the stats and in both, DeRo is still proving to be effective and a loss to TFC.

As a side note, I would be interested in seeing what you have to say about Koeverman possibly coming in to TFC? One of your biggest arguments against DeRo's contract extension was his age. Koeverman is almost exactly 6 months younger than DeRo. Is there no risk there or do Europeans age slower than North Americans?

[menefreghista]

And...

Dero is not the only player the Bulls lost to the Cup.
Some guy named Rafa was gone, won the cup, and may have an injury because of it.

I think the NYC media might have been more pre-occupies with the 5 Mil a year guy then the old Canadian guy.

Except I don't recall Backe making public comments on Marquez's Gold Cup duty.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccerblog/tainio_rogers_mending_albright_hoping_KzCvff1xzQMK ALLgiBPYIP

[Roogsy]

Except I don't recall Backe making public comments on Marquez's Gold Cup duty.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccerblog/tainio_rogers_mending_albright_hoping_KzCvff1xzQMK ALLgiBPYIP


Backe hates the Gold Cup. He lost Rafa Marquez to the tournament. Most club coaches loathe the regional tournaments because all the risk is to the club and the coach is ultimately judged on the performance of the club not the national teams.

But I doubt this move is retribution for DeRo's decision. It just seems to me that it's two teams addressing the needs for a playoff push.

[Menelaos]

Except I don't recall Backe making public comments on Marquez's Gold Cup duty.

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/soccerblog/tainio_rogers_mending_albright_hoping_KzCvff1xzQMK ALLgiBPYIP

Maybe thats where he should have been making his comments ;)

[s2cazz]

translational locomotion of an object in respect to a surface with ricketts

"The Economic Benefits of Shameless Self Promotion and The Utilization of Social and Traditional Media for Personal Gains" by Rohan Ricketts

[torontocelt]

This is the part where rumours become commonly accepted facts without any evidence.

DeRo was not making any demands of NYRB. Where the negotiations at the end of the year would have gone is anyone's guess but anyone stating that DeRo was already making demands about the kind of contract to be negotiated is just making stuff up. He's been too busy playing for both NY and CMNT not to mention his family STILL not being down in NY while they were taking care of things in Toronto. There hasn't been TIME to discuss the contract, which wasn't on the agenda until the end of the year, both sides had already agreed.

As for "living up to the hype", that is more a product of fan opinion than coach opinion. I spoke with Backe last month and he was happy with the production from DeRo because he was brought in as a "setup man". With NYRB scoring more goals than anyone in the league, including the front-running LA Galaxy, Backe is not displeased with his forwards, any of them and it is a complete reach to say that the coach believes he hasn't "lived up to the hype" when he has done what the coach has asked him to do.

Anyone with even a minimal amount of viewing time of NY knows that what the team has struggled to do is keep goals out. And look what they traded for, a Defensive Midfielder! So really, how unbelievable is it to simply see this as two teams addressing needs they have identified as being necessary to take the next step? DC has a decent attack but is still middle of the pack and McCarty hasn't fit well. NY has an awesome attack, one that probably will be affected in only a small way with DeRo's departure but they get a better option at DM, hopefully helping them turn all high-scoring ties into wins. Especially since they lost some unknown player named Rafa Marquez to injury. Surely that didn't play a part in this decision? Naaaaah...it was the chicken dance.

Pookie, anything short of an MLS Cup would have "reinforced" to you that DeRo couldn't do this, that or the other. The only proof that is worth anything is the standings and the stats and in both, DeRo is still proving to be effective and a loss to TFC.

As a side note, I would be interested in seeing what you have to say about Koeverman possibly coming in to TFC? One of your biggest arguments against DeRo's contract extension was his age. Koeverman is almost exactly 6 months younger than DeRo. Is there no risk there or do Europeans age slower than North Americans?

Jesus Roogsy, in one post you have just spoken the most sense in this entire thread.

[Pachuco]

National team duties were known at the time of the original Toronto to NY deal though, weren't they? It's not like it is something new.

At the end of the day, the trade is simple. The NYRB want to win now and don't believe they can do it with DeRosario and would prefer to use his roster spot to acquire something else. You can conclude that DeRo didn't live up to his hype or simply that the Red Bulls have deeper needs they need to address and took a chance to clear a roster spot. Either or he wasn't seen as a key piece of their Cup drive therefore was expendable.

A couple of reporters in NY are claiming that DeRo was expecting a DP contract at the season's end and the NYRB's decided that his current production just wasn't going to be enough to meet those demands. Rather than find themselves in the same place Winter did, they cut their losses. And their losses of Tchani, Borman and a 1st round pick are pretty high at the moment. I suspect more will emerge on this story over time. DeRo's twitter is surprisingly silent over the last 24 hours.

For me, this just reinforces the view that DeRo was not capable of leading a team given his age, baggage and future expectations. I am VERY happy that Winter did not cave and dish out a multi-year DP contract on a marginal return. We already have one of those.

You obviously have no idea what happened between Dero and Backe when Dero said he was going to play in the Gold Cup for Canada.

The rest of your post is just your typical bullshit speculation stated as fact. There are many more reasons you trade a player then the way you position it. As Roogsy says, this could easily be a matter of what you need most at that point in time.

[Pookie]

You obviously have no idea what happened between Dero and Backe when Dero said he was going to play in the Gold Cup for Canada.

The rest of your post is just your typical bullshit speculation stated as fact. There are many more reasons you trade a player then the way you position it. As Roogsy says, this could easily be a matter of what you need most at that point in time.

I believe I said that:

"You can conclude that DeRo didn't live up to his hype or simply that the Red Bulls have deeper needs they need to address and took a chance to clear a roster spot."


... either or my friend, the facts that DeRo was considered a piece of their Cup drive and now is no longer.

Knock me or anyone else with an opinion that speaks less than favourably about this player. For example, Ives Galarcep, writes:

When the New York Red Bulls acquired Dwayne De Rosario back in April, he was seen as the missing piece to a championship puzzle for a loaded Red Bulls squad.

Less than three months later, the Red Bulls have decided the piece didn’t fit.

...
On balance, the trade looks lopsided, what with De Rosario considered one of the league’s best attacking players, and a multiple MLS Cup winner while McCarty is a young midfielder who has struggled for playing time on a middle-of-the-pack D.C. United side.

A closer look reveals that the trade should help give the Red Bulls the flexibility, both with cap space and an international player slot freed up by the departure of De Rosario, to address other issues on the team.

...

The deal makes D.C. the third team De Rosario has played for this season, and as a player in search of a new contract, the former Houston Dynamo star should have his chance to prove he’s worth a big-money contract. He will also have to prove that he’s more impact player than troublemaker after leaving Toronto FC in controversial fashion, and after leaving New York after less than three months.

...

Just what the trade means for New York won’t be known until the club makes use of the international slot and salary cap relief created by the deal. Unless and until the Red Bulls make an impact acquisition or two, trading De Rosario will look like an admission of failure in acquiring DeRosario in the first place. New York traded away highly-regarded young midfielder Tony Tchani, defender Danleigh Borman and a first-round pick for DeRosario, a price that has to yield more than three months of DeRosario and McCarty.

...

Now, if McCarty struggles, the Red Bulls fail in their quest to make an impact summer signing or two, and De Rosario thrives with D.C. United, this trade could go down as a disaster for New York and a steal for a D.C. team that will be hoping De Rosario fits better in D.C. than he did in New York.

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/mls/story/dwayne-de-rosario-dax-mccarty-red-bulls-dc-united-trade-makes-sense-062811

[ManUtd4ever]

This is the part where rumours become commonly accepted facts without any evidence.

DeRo was not making any demands of NYRB. Where the negotiations at the end of the year would have gone is anyone's guess but anyone stating that DeRo was already making demands about the kind of contract to be negotiated is just making stuff up. He's been too busy playing for both NY and CMNT not to mention his family STILL not being down in NY while they were taking care of things in Toronto. There hasn't been TIME to discuss the contract, which wasn't on the agenda until the end of the year, both sides had already agreed.

As for "living up to the hype", that is more a product of fan opinion than coach opinion. I spoke with Backe last month and he was happy with the production from DeRo because he was brought in as a "setup man". With NYRB scoring more goals than anyone in the league, including the front-running LA Galaxy, Backe is not displeased with his forwards, any of them and it is a complete reach to say that the coach believes he hasn't "lived up to the hype" when he has done what the coach has asked him to do.

Anyone with even a minimal amount of viewing time of NY knows that what the team has struggled to do is keep goals out. And look what they traded for, a Defensive Midfielder! So really, how unbelievable is it to simply see this as two teams addressing needs they have identified as being necessary to take the next step? DC has a decent attack but is still middle of the pack and McCarty hasn't fit well. NY has an awesome attack, one that probably will be affected in only a small way with DeRo's departure but they get a better option at DM, hopefully helping them turn all high-scoring ties into wins. Especially since they lost some unknown player named Rafa Marquez to injury. Surely that didn't play a part in this decision? Naaaaah...it was the chicken dance.



I agree with most of your analysis, although it would have been incredibly naive on Hans Backe's part to assume that DeRo would not seek a DP level contract at the end of the season comparable to what he publicly demanded in Toronto. Of course, whether or not DeRo's pending contract status was a primary factor in Backe's decision to trade him so soon after acquiring his rights is speculation at this point.

It will be very interesting to watch DeRo's contract situation develop in DC in the off season.

[Pookie]

As a side note, I would be interested in seeing what you have to say about Koeverman possibly coming in to TFC? One of your biggest arguments against DeRo's contract extension was his age. Koeverman is almost exactly 6 months younger than DeRo. Is there no risk there or do Europeans age slower than North Americans?

Oh there is a risk there and to think about Koeverman having an impact over the longer term is the same situation as it is for DeRosario. Skills will decline, it's a matter of how soon.

My issue with an aging DeRo was to use a limited DP tag on him over a period of time in which his skills decline and he has demonstrated all the "off field" issues that have put his leadership into question.

If Koeverman and takes up a DP tag for +3 years to do it, then I would question his judgement to do so on an aging player. That said, he appears to have a solid character and work rate, the character point in which we agree to disagree with respect to DeRo.

He would be an improvement to the club but can't be the only answer and I would be really leery about multiyear commitments to players on the other side of 32.

[v00d00daddy]

I guess it's possible that this move is a roster "tweaking" for both sides but it seems a strange one for new York if it is.

3 months ago they trade for a guy (giving up tchani who many would argue is equal to dax in terms of value and future talent) because they figure he can help them make and win the MLS cup. Now he's no longer required to achieve that goal?

Could be...maybe they're clearing the decks for an AM Dp in new York.

Either way...a guy than many here trumpeted as invaluable and worth boatloads of money just got traded for a prospect who wasn't even playing much for a middle of the road team.

This is no blockbuster or shock. It's just a deal for a player who's value has, in the last 3 months, twice been shown to be lower than many thought.

[Pookie]

Just for reference, these are public comments on the NYRB's main site:


Can we now trade McCarty for Tchani and Borman?


DeRo wants DP money, we would have lost him at the end of the season. Good move.


dero does not show like hes a DP he only 2 goals with us and there were from PKS


hes dc problem now


I am thinking that McCarty has a higher work rate. That seems to be Backe's kinda guy.


he is much younger that DeRo. I've always hated him when he plays against the Red Bulls, which is how I know he's a good player.


Hans Backe is one of the best managers this team has ever seen if not the best. I trust his judgment all the way. DeRo wasn't playing as much as he was worth. Soler said change was coming, so expect more shockers along the way. Now trading with DC United, I'm not too happy about, but hopefully we get the best out of this trade. Let's Go Red Bulls!


WHAT. WHY! De Rosario was just getting good for us! What are you doing Hans Backe!


hahaha doing good for us??? he has no more speed he only got 2 goals from PKS i say hes nearing to his end


Seriously bro wow! We traded Dwayne De Rosario!!! "Where's the unlike button"


to me is a good trade....de Ro. wants more money but he is not the same player....for sure his best years were with san jose/ houston....go red bulls.


McCarty can play box to box... having him in will definitely help our defense. He'll track back more than DeRo does and help break up a lot of plays in the midfield, and then convert them to counters. Good move, I like it.


Bad trade, not impressed with Dax 5 cap Team USA experience, since he is not good enough to start for that weak side currently. Just 2 PKs, well who else on the team can covert theirs with regularity? Plus DeRo's experience helps the possession game.


do you even watch the games bro? he gets paid a lot of money, and he's clearly not the same person he has been in the past. he's not the center of attention in ny, and he's lacking confidence, speed, finishing, the final pass that he was brought here to make, etc. McCarty on the other hand gets paid a lot less, works nearly as hard as lindpere, and is just what ny needs. good trade for the red bulls considering another dp could come along with all of this extra cap space.


this is an upside for downside trade. we got the upside. the trade makes no sense from DC's perspective. I liked Dero, but he was a "dollar short and day late" kinda player.


t's a head scratching, what planet are these retards from wow. It may be a money dump with designated player implications, but its very odd


dero was one of my fav players since I was 8 but he left too much space open in the middle.


Looks like we are looking for another DP. Goalie I hope.


so much for getting a fucking goalie.

[Pookie]

Either way...a guy than many here trumpeted as invaluable and worth boatloads of money just got traded for a prospect who wasn't even playing much for a middle of the road team.


-- end of story --

[Nuvinho]

Don't forget the 1st round pick we are getting - it will be a late first round pick, but we could always use it as trade bait - We all know how teams in MLS without academys love the MLS draft.

[Pookie]

DeRo was not making any demands of NYRB. Where the negotiations at the end of the year would have gone is anyone's guess but anyone stating that DeRo was already making demands about the kind of contract to be negotiated is just making stuff up. He's been too busy playing for both NY and CMNT not to mention his family STILL not being down in NY while they were taking care of things in Toronto. There hasn't been TIME to discuss the contract, which wasn't on the agenda until the end of the year, both sides had already agreed.

ummmm, no time to discuss a contract or making demands? what about this?

"Solér indicated to MLSsoccer.com earlier this month that he expected to shuffle the Red Bulls' roster in the near future. Among his comments, Solér specifically identified the club's interests in speaking with De Rosario about a contract extension upon his return from international duty with Canada at the Gold Cup.

“When he’s back, we will speak to him to see where he’s at and what is possible,” Solér said to MLSsoccer.com on June 14. “We hope, of course, that we can have him for more years.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/soccer/post/_/id/952/red-bulls-trade-de-rosario-for-dcs-mccarty

... and then the trade on June 28th. One could logically conclude that they had the discussion and realized they were going to be far apart based on both sides' view of his value and NY opted to recover something for the asset.

Just sayin' that not everything is a conspiracy theory. Some theories actually have supporting evidence.

[Auzzy]

Only 5 pages so far. What's the target? 20? 50?

[TFCRegina]

surprising that some people are shocked about this, they were shopping for dero when we initially put him up, but here's what united fans are saying:



I do not approve. Dero is a head case. 3 teams in a half a ********ing year. jersey wouldn't get rid of him to a potential playoff rival if he was going to be good for us. Clearly he isn't working there. ******** ******** ********

Wow wow wow!!!! That's a fantastic trade!!! This is almost a Roy for Roy part deux.

this is a weird one... deRo is still a very good player, but for how long?

whereas, we were supposed to build our team around dax for the next 10 years... i know it hasn't gone as well as we wanted with him, but why pull the plug so quickly?

I just hope DeRo has something left in the tank - if he does I can really see him being successful in pulling the strings on our young attack - because our attackers ARE making the right runs, etc. We also have someone other than Najar who can take freekicks now.

I have never been a fan of De Ro. Sorry. Add to that the 33 year old "sell by date" on the side of his carton and I leery. Sorry end of the day I cannot get excited about this trade.

Even if we don't seriously contend in the next couple years, playing along side DeRo will immediately speed up the development of our young players, not to mention putting butts in the seats.

Good trade. I ********ing hate DeRo though.

And I wonder how many positive comments you ignored in the process to bring us this distilled little post of hatred.

[DangerRed]

Look, logic dictates that DeRo wasn't working well at NYRB and that's why the got rid of him. Ives is right: they thought DeRo would fit, but he didn't. Has NYRB decided it needs someone who doesn't always get minutes in a middle of the road team more than someone who's a proven veteran attacker with a great career? YES.

If this is anything but the dumping of DeRo by a disillusioned team, then why didn't NYRB simply trade Borman and Tchani to DC for McCarty in the first place? Because they thought DeRo would be better for their Cup chances than McCarty. Now they don't.

Slice and dice it however you want, this shows the decline of DeRo's value as a player, not only to TFC but to NYRB as well.

So...

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01926/lulzsec_1926506c.jpg

[Chevy]

ummmm, no time to discuss a contract or making demands? what about this?

"Solér indicated to MLSsoccer.com earlier this month that he expected to shuffle the Red Bulls' roster in the near future. Among his comments, Solér specifically identified the club's interests in speaking with De Rosario about a contract extension upon his return from international duty with Canada at the Gold Cup.

“When he’s back, we will speak to him to see where he’s at and what is possible,” Solér said to MLSsoccer.com on June 14. “We hope, of course, that we can have him for more years.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/soccer/post/_/id/952/red-bulls-trade-de-rosario-for-dcs-mccarty

... and then the trade on June 28th. One could logically conclude that they had the discussion and realized they were going to be far apart based on both sides' view of his value and NY opted to recover something for the asset.

Just sayin' that not everything is a conspiracy theory. Some theories actually have supporting evidence.

This. I find it REAL hard to believe that DeRo didn't say a word to NYRB management about his contract status since arriving in NY. Did anyone outisde of the DeRo camp really think they would handcuff themselves with using the 3rd DP slot on him?

Regardless, he can now attempt to live the DP dream in DC. I sincerely wish him luck.

[menefreghista]

Slice and dice it however you want, this shows the decline of DeRo's value as a player, not only to TFC but to NYRB as well.

Actually I'd argue that NYRB got more for DeRosario than TFC did. So under your parameters his value has gone up.

[Chevy]

Interesting tweet from Portland. With the latest DeRo trade, the Timbers will face DeRo in three different uniforms this year.

[DangerRed]

Actually I'd argue that NYRB got more for DeRosario than TFC did. So under your parameters his value has gone up.

Then we're arguing McCarty vs Tchani+Borman+1st Round Pick. And I'd argue you're being generous to McCarty.

[ArmenJBX]

Tchani, Borman and a 1st round draft pick
or
Dax McCartney?

I think we got a better deal than both of them

[Roogsy]

ummmm, no time to discuss a contract or making demands? what about this?

"Solér indicated to MLSsoccer.com earlier this month that he expected to shuffle the Red Bulls' roster in the near future. Among his comments, Solér specifically identified the club's interests in speaking with De Rosario about a contract extension upon his return from international duty with Canada at the Gold Cup.

“When he’s back, we will speak to him to see where he’s at and what is possible,” Solér said to MLSsoccer.com on June 14. “We hope, of course, that we can have him for more years.”


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/soccer/post/_/id/952/red-bulls-trade-de-rosario-for-dcs-mccarty

... and then the trade on June 28th. One could logically conclude that they had the discussion and realized they were going to be far apart based on both sides' view of his value and NY opted to recover something for the asset.

Just sayin' that not everything is a conspiracy theory. Some theories actually have supporting evidence.

I really wonder about whether you even try to see the other side Pookie.

When did Soler make those comments. June 14. When did Rafa get hurt? June 25. What were the results in between for NY? A bunch of high-scoring ties.

That doesn't tell you what is going on?

Soler's comments, coupled with Backe's over the last few months show that they liked what they got in DeRo. That you guys are painting this as a "dump" is a classic twisting of the facts. That you then go on an ignore the developments of the past few weeks as being influential in this trade only shows how unwilling you are to look at the big picture.

It's a classic case if picking facts to suit your case. Soler mentions that he wants to negotiate a contract with DeRo and a few weeks later DeRo is traded so you make the assumption that your bias has been correct. You completely ignore the developments in between and that has been your achilles heel all along. Why I keep trying to make you aware of more facts than the ones you selectively choose to pay attention to I don't know, but it's getting tiresome.

And that is without even touching on the matter that obviously Soler wanted to negotiate a new cotnract, the contents of which nobody knows, you included. But he mentions he would like it to be a multi-year contract and yet you insist that NY didn't want him? How does that make any sense? And how does that agree with your view of DeRo being washed up and not worthy of a long-term deal? Do you know something Soler doesn't?

The very articles you choose to use to support your points undo your position.

Instead I see this for something less sinister than what you guys make it out to be. Unlike Toronto, which stuck to an unworkable system for months before our genius coach decided to change things up, NY has decided not to waste any time and to make decisive moves in the wake of some worrisome results. Their defensive needs have been apparent. They just lost a major cog on the backline, someone who had been used as a lynchpin in the middle of the pitch. Rumour has it that they will be bringing in a new keeper as their 3rd DP. So what do they do? They trade for someone who can substitute for Rafa in front of the defenders and sacrifice a bit of offence on a team that has shown no problems scoring. I would say it's a positive compromise. And DC, who is on the bubble in the playoff picture now made themselves stronger and have a better opportunity to land a playoff spot. And somehow you guys continue to argue this is an example that proves your case of DeRo's reduced value? That argument only works if the ultimate conclusion of ALL trades is that a player has little or no value and unless that is your point, you have provided no basis for anyone to believe that NY was moving him for anything other than strategic reasons.

Add this to the fact that you guys keep sticking to a fact long-since undone. DeRo dropped his DP demands in TORONTO, so unless you have evidence that he started demanding them in NY again, you're stating baseless accusations, which you can do until the cows come home, but it certainly doens't lend credibility to your points when you are using made-up facts.

[Roogsy]

Look, logic dictates that DeRo wasn't working well at NYRB and that's why the got rid of him.


Why is this the only logical argument and the "addressing needs" argument isn't?

Are you saying NY doesn't have a problem keeping out goals?

Are you saying DC isn't making a playoff push?

Are you saying McCarty's value isn't significant enough that he can be considered the "dump" in a trade?

[Whoop]

Ultimately I think it's a case of DeRo was likely the only guy who could net NYRB a solid return.

You don't want to think about it in this way but sports is all about asset management and accumulation. Despite what you think DeRo's failings may be, he is an asset. (Even if you don't like him, someone else out does.) You know that NYRB isn't moving Henry or Marquez and given the circumstances they aren't going to move one of their international players like Lindpere or a Taino.

So if NYRB wants to make a deal to get someone who can make an immediate impact they have to give up an asset who can bring back value.

[Roogsy]

^ This.

It's also foolish to think that a team "on the bubble" would make a disruptive move like this unless they thought it could net them positive results, like a playoff spot.

In the end, I think both teams benefit. NY addresses it's lacklustre defensive record (especially for a team considered elite in this league) and DC get a proven winner in this league that will likely help them land a playoff spot. In fact, I will call it now. DC, which is in 11th spot will land a playoff spot by the end of the year and this trade will be a factor in that result.

What is already known is that two teams in the Eastern Conference are pulling out the stops to get in the playoffs, and the last-place team is still fumbling around in the dark.

[ag futbol]

Are you saying McCarty's value isn't significant enough that he can be considered the "dump" in a trade?
That's the thing ... you can't judge MLS trades the way you would look at trades in other sports simply because there is basically an infinite player pool out there so it's not like you are limited to making trades to acquire talent or make changes.

Clearly it's a salary drop, but to do what? Is there going to be a 1 for 1 replacement for Dero? Is that signing going to be just about talented or marketing focused as well? Are they doing this to shore up their defense or GK spot? Hard to tell until the other shoe drops.

As someone pointed out (somewhere) he was on pace for 6 goals and 12 assists on the season which isn't a bad haul by any means.

[Chevy]

Less than enthusiastic Tweet from DeRo:

"Thanks for the Support. When one door closes many more open. On to the next one..."

[menefreghista]

Does De Rosario take an international spot? That might be another reason for this move. Not sure about NYRB situation in that regard.

[__wowza]

And I wonder how many positive comments you ignored in the process to bring us this distilled little post of hatred.

i was thinking of writing this huge sarcastic post in response to this, but i've narrowed it down to either one of two points that may resolve why you posted that, one of which i can't really make fun of you about:

1. you can't read (i'm including "can't read well" in this category).
2. you read what you wanted to and you're just trying to be snarky.


go back and read my post. seriously; read it. the comments from DC were mixed. some thought it was fantastic, others hated it. if you don't believe me then you can head on over to the bigsoccer forums and see for yourself. some people..

:facepalm:

[AmherstNY_TFC]

Has DeRo become the Terrell Owens of MLS? Is a reality show with Charlie Davies far behind?

[DangerRed]

Why is this the only logical argument and the "addressing needs" argument isn't?

Are you saying NY doesn't have a problem keeping out goals?

Are you saying DC isn't making a playoff push?

Are you saying McCarty's value isn't significant enough that he can be considered the "dump" in a trade?

Yes they do, yes they are and ... I don't know how to read your last question. But it still doesn't undermine what I said earlier: NYRB thought DeRo would fit and was what was needed. He didn't, and isn't, so he's gone. And it took them just a few months to realize that.

[DangerRed]

That's the thing ... you can't judge MLS trades the way you would look at trades in other sports simply because there is basically an infinite player pool out there so it's not like you are limited to making trades to acquire talent or make changes.

Clearly it's a salary drop, but to do what? Is there going to be a 1 for 1 replacement for Dero? Is that signing going to be just about talented or marketing focused as well? Are they doing this to shore up their defense or GK spot? Hard to tell until the other shoe drops.

As someone pointed out (somewhere) he was on pace for 6 goals and 12 assists on the season which isn't a bad haul by any means.

6 goals? Not bad? Chad Barrett had 7 last year. Just saying.

[Red Skies At Night]

I can understand why some would see this as a DeRo fail. But it takes two sides (at least) to make a trade. DC obviously think they are getting something of value or they wouldn't have given up McCarty (who still has upside in terms of his development). So this is as much about what DC wanted, as what NYRB didn't want. DeRo still has value in this league. If there's to be any judgement on DeRo it's what he does with DC by seasons-end that should be the real determinant, not how often he is traded.

[ag futbol]

6 goals? Not bad? Chad Barrett had 7 last year. Just saying.
And Chad Barrett plays striker while Dero is usually deployed as an attacking midfielder. When Dero was playing Striker, he hit rate was better than Barrett's.

David Ferreira had 8 and 13 the year he won MVP.

[whyalwaysme11]

and you joke, but don't forget that dero used to look like this:

http://i.imm.io/6TVf.jpeg


i'll also just leave this here:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYTzhy1dF-dkOGETyezvgofQeCnyygnBjX5gTCKv0t70720GdyHA


ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa this killed me...
i remember the day i got his Houston Dynamo card in the mail i was so excited...

[Azerban]

And Chad Barrett plays striker while Dero is usually deployed as an attacking midfielder. When Dero was playing Striker, he hit rate was better than Barrett's.

David Ferreira had 8 and 13 the year he won MVP.

the real question is, why are we extrapolating 2 penalty kicks into 6 league goals

[__wowza]

the real question is, why are we extrapolating 2 penalty kicks into 6 league goals

i didn't want to say it, but i was thinking the exact same thing..

[Chevy]

i didn't want to say it, but i was thinking the exact same thing..

Aren't all DeRo's stats extrapolated, magnified and massaged so the make him look like the bestest player in all of history? :)

[Roogsy]

Yes they do, yes they are and ... I don't know how to read your last question. But it still doesn't undermine what I said earlier: NYRB thought DeRo would fit and was what was needed. He didn't, and isn't, so he's gone. And it took them just a few months to realize that.

You verbally acknowledge NYs struggles at defense but you don't account for it when you consider why NY made the trade. Instead you make up a rationalization about him not fitting and yet NYs offence was the most potent since DeRo arrived. The facts simply don't support your assertion.

[Whoop]

Also have to wait to see the other shoe drop though and see who they bring in.

[habstfc]

Also have to wait to see the other shoe drop though and see who they bring in.

I don't think it's going to matter though. They would have been better keeping dero and trying to win with offense. There is no way NYRB are winning anything with that defense.

[denime]

It will be interesting to see where DeRo will end after this season is finished,DC won't give him DP money for sure.

[brad]

Does De Rosario take an international spot? That might be another reason for this move. Not sure about NYRB situation in that regard.

Nope. He has a his green card, or whatever it takes for him to be considered domestic in the US.

[Roogsy]

It will be interesting to see where DeRo will end after this season is finished,DC won't give him DP money for sure.

And since the DP tag was only an issue in Toronto, that won't be an issue anywhere else in the league.

[Pookie]

outside of NY and DC, the "why" is never really to be answered.

The objective part of this is somewhere between Tchani, Borman and a 1st round pick, DeRo's value has dropped to that of McCarty. A player with upside who has trouble staying in a poor line up.

His stock has dropped and Winter deserves two thumbs up for not caving to public pressure and overpaying for a declining asset.

[Gazza_55]

Interesting tweet from Portland. With the latest DeRo trade, the Timbers will face DeRo in three different uniforms this year.

And Vancouver I think as well.

[Pookie]

Roogsy, re: page 5

I'm not calling it a dump. You simply asserted that there were no contract talks and I highlighted in a direct quote from Soler that there were.

Obviously a lot of variables come into play when contemplating a trade. Current needs, available talent, asking price, and contract terms.

Whether these talks played a small or big role, who knows. One factor of many perhaps. In the end, NY considered him expendable 3 months after making the deal with Toronto. .

[TFCRegina]

It will be interesting to see where DeRo will end after this season is finished,DC won't give him DP money for sure.

Are you so certain of that? DC United is the only club, as far as I can tell, that has given Designated Player contracts to players who made a name for themselves in MLS and stayed in the league.

[Whoop]

Branko Boskovic?

[jloome]

I really wonder about whether you even try to see the other side Pookie.

Most. Ironic. Post. Ever.

[BFin]

Branko Boskovic?

lol well played.

[BFin]

Roogs, honest question.

Why was the DP request dropped after Toronto? Was he determining his value based on the players around him and felt that in TO he deserved it but in NY he was well suited at his current deal? Or was it more 'wait until the season is over'?

Edit: Tried to PM you, but your inbox is full.

[Roogsy]

As per @KristianRDyer


Soler also conceded that this was a move to shore up the team's defensive posture and bring in a player to work alongside Teemu Tainio.

Somebody call up Dyer and tell him he's got it wrong.

[Roogsy]

I'm not calling it a dump. You simply asserted that there were no contract talks and I highlighted in a direct quote from Soler that there were.


Actually you quoted something where they said they intended to have discussion, not that they actually had them. Can you find a quote where they actually indicate that negotiations had started at all?

Expendable? Or usable? The use of your word indicates an opinion not a fact. Fundamentally, all players are "expendable". It's a matter of what you get back in return. Most of us consider this term to be less accurate than the less judgemental "asset". NY got an asset in return for trading an asset. That's business. That's sports. And neither prove your points about DeRo either failing in NY or being traded because he was not useful or because of contract negotiations going poorly. In fact, Soler goes on to state that they've been looking to bring in McCarty since he was in Dallas. They've obviously been after him a while and valued him. If DC knew that, they were going to ask for value in return, severely crippling any argument in this thread that this trade reflects an poor opinion of DeRo in NY.

[arsenal]

Are you so certain of that? DC United is the only club, as far as I can tell, that has given Designated Player contracts to players who made a name for themselves in MLS and stayed in the league.

You mean the same DC United that traded away the heart and soul of their team (and former league MVP) Christian Gomez because they didn't feel the 33 yo midfielder was worth DP money? :)

[Brooker]

This is great. He's gotta pack his bags and his family up again. Atleast he goes to a club with some decent fans this time. Joooournnneyman.... You're just a fucking Joooooureynman....

[ArmenJBX]

It all comes down to ego.
De Rosario can't handle being "underpayed" - he's not by the way - at Toronto FC
De Rosario can't handle being overshadowed at New York - and still "underpayed"
What's going to happen in DC? Hmmm... :/

[Roogsy]

It all comes down to ego.
De Rosario can't handle being "underpayed" - he's not by the way - at Toronto FC
De Rosario can't handle being overshadowed at New York - and still "underpayed"
What's going to happen in DC? Hmmm... :/


So you're saying he asked for the trade?

[Suds]

Seriously can't believe there are some people making more out of this then there is.

Straight up trade by two clubs looking to tailor their rosters to their needs. It's like trading hockey cards - got 'em, got 'em, got 'em, need 'em ... hey wanna trade? Yup.

[ensco]

This is a pretty serious fall in value. Just to remind everyone, McCarthy wasn't protected by Dallas last November, and went to Portland in the expansion draft.

Also I find NY's sudden need for a DM kind of funny. They traded a pretty good one away for Dero 3 months ago! Personally, I would not trade Tchani for McCarthy.

I have been pretty critical of WinterMariner, but they deserve praise today. NY's FO really look like chumps.

[Roogsy]

Seriously can't believe there are some people making more out of this then there is.

Straight up trade by two clubs looking to tailor their rosters to their needs. It's like trading hockey cards - got 'em, got 'em, got 'em, need 'em ... hey wanna trade? Yup.



If you have this one let me know.

http://www.mybackyardicerink.com/image-files/the-o-pee-chee-wayne-gretzky-rookie-card-shows-wayne-as-the-captain-of-the-edmonton-oilers-of-the-nhl-1979-1980-season.gif

[Beach_Red]

This is a pretty serious fall in value. Just to remind everyone, McCarthy wasn't protected by Dallas last November, and went to Portland in the expansion draft.

Also I find NY's sudden need for a DM kind of funny. They traded a pretty good one away for Dero 3 months ago! Personally, I would not trade Tchani for McCarthy.

I have been pretty critical of WinterMariner, but they deserve praise today. NY's FO really look like chumps.

It's too bad DC released Julius James....

[Pookie]

As per @KristianRDyer


Soler also conceded that this was a move to shore up the team's defensive posture and bring in a player to work alongside Teemu Tainio.

Somebody call up Dyer and tell him he's got it wrong.

I wouldn't dare tell him he's got it wrong. He also wrote:

"A Canadian international, De Rosario was acquired by the Red Bulls nearly three months ago in exchange for promising midfielder Tony Tchani, left back Danleigh Borman and a first round pick in next year’s SuperDraft. A perennial All-Star selection, De Rosario produced two goals and four assists during his short stay in New York, a disappointing tenure for a player whom head coach Hans Backe called in early April “the last piece” to the Red Bulls attack."

and also wrote:

"De Rosario was in the final year of his contract with the league and was open in stating that he was looking for Designated Player money next year."

... so no, I won't write him to tell him he has it wrong. You can though.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/06/28/mccarty-trade-gives-rbny-cap-space-more-signings

[arsenal]

Also I find NY's sudden need for a DM kind of funny. They traded a pretty good one away for Dero 3 months ago! Personally, I would not trade Tchani for McCarthy.



Yes that is pretty funny. And had Winter/Mariner done this then I am sure they would be crucified for it ...... but since it was Backe/Soler it is obviously just a brilliant move to shore up the team.

[J .]

I think it was a good football trade for both teams. NY gets younger and without a doubt DeRo helped a lot with their attack, but with Sutton in net, it sounds like Backe wants more possession and less counter attacks. DCU gets one of the best attacking players while DeRo gets to be the centre of attention.

[rocker]

it's fascinating that someone of De Ro's stature and presence in MLS is traded twice in one season.

I'm trying to think of when that kind of move has happened since I started watching the league in 2007. Anyone have a comparable example of such a player traded twice in one season?

[habstfc]

NY got an asset in return for trading an asset. That's business. That's sports. And neither prove your points about DeRo either failing in NY or being traded because he was not useful or because of contract negotiations going poorly.

To be fair though roogsy this trade would not have happened if dero had a few more goals.

[ag futbol]

Yes that is pretty funny. And had Winter/Mariner done this then I am sure they would be crucified for it ...... but since it was Backe/Soler it is obviously just a brilliant move to shore up the team.
Well you know .. being 6th place as opposed to dead last will afford you some flexibility.

[MisterMacphisto]

Dero stats this season:

New York:

13 games , 2 goals, 4 assists.

TFC:

2 games , 1 goal, 1 Assist.

Canada

3 games, 2 goals, both pens though.

I wish TFC had some more washed up players like him.

Pop quiz. How many of those goals were PK's?

[brad]

Yes that is pretty funny. And had Winter/Mariner done this then I am sure they would be crucified for it ...... but since it was Backe/Soler it is obviously just a brilliant move to shore up the team.

Very different situations. NY have players that can score, and can afford to sacrifice one. We don't.

[brad]

I think it was a good football trade for both teams. NY gets younger and without a doubt DeRo helped a lot with their attack, but with Sutton in net, it sounds like Backe wants more possession and less counter attacks. DCU gets one of the best attacking players while DeRo gets to be the centre of attention.

One of the rumors floating around is that they have cleared cap space to bring in Hahnemann as a DP.

Folks around here think we are picking up a lot of his salary. Ives seems to think it was a salary dump, which implies otherwise. He said:


. It should be noted that New York frees up more money to spend, as De Rosario's base salary ($425,000) was significantly higher than McCarty's ($155,000).

[Roogsy]

To be fair though roogsy this trade would not have happened if dero had a few more goals.


I doubt this is true. According to Soler they've been after McCarty since last year. Which means they rate him highly. All evidence points to DeRo being welcome and appreciated at NY, according to Soler and Backe, how much more appreciated would he be if he had 4 goals instead of 2? The point is DC got what it wanted, NY got what it wanted and that's all this trade is regardless of what those of us on this TFC board think or try to twist it into.

[CSO_BBTB]

Folks around here think we are picking up a lot of his salary. Ives seems to think it was a salary dump, which implies otherwise. He said:

Pure speculation on my part but maybe TFC provided the allocation money required to keep him under the threshold where he would have to be a DP?

[CretanBull]

One of the rumors floating around is that they have cleared cap space to bring in Hahnemann as a DP.

Folks around here think we are picking up a lot of his salary. Ives seems to think it was a salary dump, which implies otherwise. He said:

It was reported in the NY Post:


"the Post has learned he 1) has a deal in place with the Red Bulls he's happy with, 2) doesn't count as a Designated Player because Toronto is picking up “a significant amount” of his salary, and 3) won't force New York to move one of its 10 internationals because he holds a green card."

[TFC07]

I laugh if DeRo comes back to Toronto FC next season. lol

[ensco]

Pure speculation on my part but maybe TFC provided the allocation money required to keep him under the threshold where he would have to be a DP?

That must be it. Same as trading an actual allocation.

It could be serious dollars (eg a couple of hundred thousand)

[v00d00daddy]

I doubt this is true. According to Soler they've been after McCarty since last year. Which means they rate him highly. All evidence points to DeRo being welcome and appreciated at NY, according to Soler and Backe, how much more appreciated would he be if he had 4 goals instead of 2? The point is DC got what it wanted, NY got what it wanted and that's all this trade is regardless of what those of us on this TFC board think or try to twist it into.

Both teams may be happy with the deal. It's totally plausible that they each got what they wanted/needed.

The interesting parts are:

-how little dc gave up for "one of the best attacking players in the league.
-how short deros stay was at nyrb

These two things show me that TFC were right not to give him DP status/money and that those who said his stock was declining when he left TFC were right.

You're right. Both teams got what they want.

DC got Dero and NY got RID of Dero.

And my prediction is that DC will be rid of him sooner than later too. Lol

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I laugh if DeRo comes back to Toronto FC next season. lol

was thinking this too

[Menelaos]

was thinking this too

Based on our current lack of scoring ability, I wouldn't mind to be honest.

[ryan]

it's fascinating that someone of De Ro's stature and presence in MLS is traded twice in one season.

I'm trying to think of when that kind of move has happened since I started watching the league in 2007. Anyone have a comparable example of such a player traded twice in one season?

Randy Moss. Patriots --> Vikings --> Titans.

Although he was let go from the Vikings and claimed by the Titans. Close enough.

[Suds]

Based on our current lack of scoring ability, I wouldn't mind to be honest.


If management wanted him, he was happy playing here, a good influence on the team, and putting the ball in the net I would not care if he was back.

I sure as hell took DeRo to task for some of his past decisions but I do not hold some personal grudge against the guy. Winning in footy is business and as much as we fans are invested emotionally, you need to separate those emotions to do what's best to win.

[ag futbol]

Randy Moss. Patriots --> Vikings --> Titans.

Although he was let go from the Vikings and claimed by the Titans. Close enough.
Maybe the irony of that whole sequence is that even though the patriots were a good team, they totally lacked a deep threat post-moss, and that hurt them in the playoffs.

Stock down or not, I think we all know that Captain pay me would be an asset to our sorry state of a team here.

[Roogsy]

You're right. Both teams got what they want.

DC got Dero and NY got RID of Dero.



You're entitled to your opinion, I am just wondering if you have any basis for which to base this claim that they wanted to get rid of him as opposed to what the current evidence shows which is that this is the price they had to pay to acquire someone they've been after for a year? I am interested in seeing this evidence.

[jaahuuu]

it's fascinating that someone of De Ro's stature and presence in MLS is traded twice in one season.

I'm trying to think of when that kind of move has happened since I started watching the league in 2007. Anyone have a comparable example of such a player traded twice in one season?

It's not MLS, but in 1998 Mike Piazza was traded twice in 8 days, from the Dodgers to the Marlins to the Mets.

[Fort York Redcoat]

DeRo's gone. That's pretty evident. And a base as to how much NY valued him. Less than the new guy.

I don't think it matters how much NY wanted him gone. They did. He is.

[Menelaos]

I am interested in seeing this evidence.

This is the interweb! Since when is evidence required to be right?!?
Anything written becomes fact :rolleyes:

[Roogsy]

DeRo's gone. That's pretty evident. And a base as to how much NY valued him. Less than the new guy.

I don't think it matters how much NY wanted him gone. They did. He is.


Again, evidence please.

Because a trade for a different player is not "evidence". It's perfectly explained by the "needs" that NY has on their backline. Did Winter want DeRo gone? I know for a fact he didn't. So don't give me this "when a player is traded it's because the team wanted him out". It's an easy excuse that has no basis whatsoever in reality. For heaven's sakes, the Oilers traded Gretzky away in his prime. Why? Because they had a need to address.

A trade is never equal like for like. In hockey, if you trade a forward for a defender, can you compare the two? Teams make trades because they look at their roster, identify where they are weakest and look at the assets they have to trade. NY had few, DeRo was one of them, they needed help on the backline, they pulled the trade with DC. It's as easy as that and you guys are working overtime to make it into something it's not.

[Pachuco]

Both teams may be happy with the deal. It's totally plausible that they each got what they wanted/needed.

The interesting parts are:

-how little dc gave up for "one of the best attacking players in the league.
-how short deros stay was at nyrb

These two things show me that TFC were right not to give him DP status/money and that those who said his stock was declining when he left TFC were right.

You're right. Both teams got what they want.

DC got Dero and NY got RID of Dero.

And my prediction is that DC will be rid of him sooner than later too. Lol

Some of us happen to think, and have been saying all along that Dero is worth to TFC more then he would be to another team. He had career years here and if there is ANYTHING that proves what Dero was worth to TFC it's how fucking terrible this team is without him. Absolutely fucking terrible without him.

I'm going to laugh my ass off if we sign the dutch dude to a low-end DP contract (which is what would've made Dero stay) and he doesn't atleast match Dero's output while he was TFC. And that's being generous, considering Dero spent his time playing 3 different positions (wing, striker/forward and AM).

As for how little NY gave up for him, how much did they freeking pay for him? 3 players, 1 of which most people think could be a future star.

He wasn't the final piece NY was looking for, that's fine. Happens with star players all the time. If Dero takes DC United to the playoffs (which I think he's very capable of doing), specially if he's given freedom to roam which is what he needs, then he'll be a hot ticket come the end of the year. If he doesn't, then we'll know his TRUE value when he's shopping for a contract.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Again, evidence please.

Because a trade for a different player is not "evidence". It's perfectly explained by the "needs" that NY has on their backline. Did Winter want DeRo gone? I know for a fact he didn't. So don't give me this "when a player is traded it's because the team wanted him out". It's an easy excuse that has no basis whatsoever in reality. For heaven's sakes, the Oilers traded Gretzky away in his prime. Why? Because they had a need to address.

Prove to me they wanted to keep him.

Otherwise NY didn't want him as much as the new guy. If you want to pretty it up to save somebody's face that's your problem. If NY wanted to do something extreme to keep DeRo they could have and in all likelihood the more extreme the quicker we'd hear about it.

So DeRo is traded and your first inkling is that his team was forced to do it and he was ripped away from the arms of his coach?

All I'm saying is from what we know so far DeRo got traded for someone and he's not coming out and saying he forced this trade. So someone else did.

[Roogsy]

He wasn't the final piece NY was looking for, that's fine. Happens with star players all the time. If Dero takes DC United to the playoffs (which I think he's very capable of doing), specially if he's given freedom to roam which is what he needs, then he'll be a hot ticket come the end of the year. If he doesn't, then we'll know his TRUE value when he's shopping for a contract.

I already called it in a previous post that DeRo was going to push DC into a playoff spot. Don't take credit for my prediction! :lol:

The funny thing is that nobody here would bet against DeRo scoring more goals this year and yet somehow they're arguing that he is a disappointment. His own career average points to him scoring probably 6 goals this year, even with his slow start in NY. How many players is Toronto going to have that will score 6 goals? 2....maybe? And those are the ones we consider our "best players" not to mention their position is of FORWARDS. For an AM to reach that number in this league highlights their quality. Sometimes the logic on this board astounds me.

[Beach_Red]

Maybe the irony of that whole sequence is that even though the patriots were a good team, they totally lacked a deep threat post-moss, and that hurt them in the playoffs.

Stock down or not, I think we all know that Captain pay me would be an asset to our sorry state of a team here.


Has Mariner made any other trades besides this one that was forced on him? Most people seem to feel he did well with the trade, so why not a couple more?

At least NY aren't just going to stand pat with a team that isn't good enough.

It seems like we have the least active management team in the league - and the most complaints that the players aren't good enough.

Like Suds says, it isn't personal, it's business. We've been very patient but it's obvious the other teams in the league aren't going to do nothing and wait while TFC takes its time building this new "system." When will our team start trying to get better? (I know, apparently there's one guy negotiating a contract now, hope he comes to terms and doesn't end up in San Jose...)

[v00d00daddy]

You're entitled to your opinion, I am just wondering if you have any basis for which to base this claim that they wanted to get rid of him as opposed to what the current evidence shows which is that this is the price they had to pay to acquire someone they've been after for a year? I am interested in seeing this evidence.

Based on what they paid TFC for dero and the value he's been given by some TFC supporters (ie. One of the best attacking players in the league, deserving of a dp contract and not on the decline) I find it odd that NYRB would accept so little in return for him.

You'd think if NYRB was so in need of a midfielder to shore up their defensive liabilities they'd be able to get more than an unproven, sporadically starting midfielder having a bad year.

Sure..NYRB may have wanted dax since last year but if you'd have asked them last year if Dax for Dero was a balanced deal theyd likely have laughed.

If Dero is such a bonafide star he'd have garnered a better defensive mid fielder than dax.

That, coupled with the fact that he was traded after less than half a season tells me that NYRB didnt want/need him and sought out the best they could get for him...which, as I've stated wasn't nearly as much as many thought.

If we had traded dero for dax instead of tchani, borman and a first people would be screaming bloody murder.

I don't know if you need backes or soler to come out and say they wanted rid of him to believe thats what happened but I don't. Their actions tell me that.

[menefreghista]

If we had traded dero for dax instead of tchani, borman and a first people would be screaming bloody murder.

Are you sure about that? On the heels of most of us watching him perform well at the MLS Cup on our home soil, most would have considered that a decent return.

[supersaint]

You're entitled to your opinion, I am just wondering if you have any basis for which to base this claim that they wanted to get rid of him as opposed to what the current evidence shows which is that this is the price they had to pay to acquire someone they've been after for a year? I am interested in seeing this evidence.

These threads are filled with opinions, not EVIDENCE, only opinions. In your world it seems that only you can spout off on topics, but everyone else must have evidence. Who made you God? Sorry, only my opinion, I do not have any evidence to back up my statements.
And my OPINION is that De Ro did not live up to the expectations of NYRB and that he was their most expendable forward. I liked DeRo as a player for Toronto, but I was not impressed with the delay in acknowledging his signing with us, the Celtic debacle, and the cheque writing incident. I wish him well in the future and I hope that some team will appreciate and value him as highly as he values himself.

[Roogsy]

Prove to me they wanted to keep him.

Otherwise NY didn't want him as much as the new guy. If you want to pretty it up to save somebody's face that's your problem. If NY wanted to do something extreme to keep DeRo they could have and in all likelihood the more extreme the quicker we'd hear about it.

So DeRo is traded and your first inkling is that his team was forced to do it and he was ripped away from the arms of his coach?

All I'm saying is from what we know so far DeRo got traded for someone and he's not coming out and saying he forced this trade. So someone else did.


And these are just comments from the past few weeks:



The midfielder played up top in place of injured forward Luke Rodgers and went the full 90 minutes in an effort that was absolutely gutsy as he overcame the fatigue of the last few weeks to be the team’s most consistent offensive spark. It was just another example of a New York player stepping up on a night where the Red Bulls, despite missing five regulars, did enough for a draw.
“That’s why he is who he is,” da Luz said of De Rosario. “He’s a top-class player. It’s what we expect of him.”


http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/2011/06/comeback-shows-backbone-short-handed-rbny



And while teammate Thierry Henry said that he was glad to have De Rosario back, he definitely wasn’t rooting against De Ro and Canada. Head coach Hans Backe, however, was a little more open with his response to the return of the midfielder.
“I was pretty happy,” Backe said.


http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/2011/06/de-rosario-admits-early-return-red-bulls-bittersweet



“When he’s back, we will speak to him to see where he’s at and what is possible,” Solér said. “We hope, of course, that we can have him for more years.”


http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/2011/06/rbny-sporting-director-sol%C3%A9r-says-changes-are-coming

I found this in 5 minutes. I had to go back a total of 2 weeks. And this is without even trying. This is without pointing to the fact that DeRo has started every single game for NY since he arrived except Gold Cup games. Or that Backe had publicly tried to convince DeRo not to play at the Gold Cup. Or that DeRo has been influential and many times the catalyst for the many Henry and Rodgers goals so far this year, catapulting them at the top of the league for goals scored. Do you think that is just a coincidence and has nothing to do with DeRo given his role at the club. Or even moreso, that Backe doesn't see that?

Now I have provided evidence that they wanted him. Shoot...Soler goes as far to say that he wanted him for "several years". I showed you mine, I'd like to see yours now.

[Roogsy]

These threads are filled with opinions, not EVIDENCE, only opinions. In your world it seems that only you can spout off on topics, but everyone else must have evidence. Who made you God? Sorry, only my opinion, I do not have any evidence to back up my statements.
And my OPINION is that De Ro did not live up to the expectations of NYRB and that he was their most expendable forward. I liked DeRo as a player for Toronto, but I was not impressed with the delay in acknowledging his signing with us, the Celtic debacle, and the cheque writing incident. I wish him well in the future and I hope that some team will appreciate and value him as highly as he values himself.

I don't mind opinion as long as it is stated as such. But when you state something as fact, then provide evidence or admit that it is simply opinion.

When I "spout off on topics" it's because I have either read it in print, spoken to a confirmed insider or have been involved 1st hand. When many here "spout off on topics" it's because they have a bias and their "facts" are used to support that bias and you can bet your life I am going to call you on it.

[Beach_Red]

I don't know if you need backes or soler to come out and say they wanted rid of him to believe thats what happened but I don't. Their actions tell me that.

Yes, their actions. Good on them, they didn't dick around for months. Something wasn't working so they tried to correct it. Why did we waste the off-season and first few weeks of the season on something that any experienced manager would have seen wasn't going to work out?

You're right, if TFC had traded DeRo for Dax people would be screaming - and rightly so - but otherwise we're sure sitting around quietly waiting and hoping.

[Roogsy]

Are you sure about that? On the heels of most of us watching him perform well at the MLS Cup on our home soil, most would have considered that a decent return.


Yeah I don't get that. Tchani and Borman have shown nothing yet and people are not upset with the trade. I am not saying they should be. In fact, at the time I said it was a decent return for a bad situation. I stand by that. And what is done is done. Considering we don't have a true backup or partner to JDG right now, I would say that McCarty would have also been a decent alternative in the DeRo trade. Especially since it would have provided us with a ready-made solution once JDG leaves.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I found this in 5 minutes. I had to go back a total of 2 weeks. And this is without even trying. This is without pointing to the fact that DeRo has started every single game for NY since he arrived except Gold Cup games. Or that Backe had publicly tried to convince DeRo not to play at the Gold Cup. Or that DeRo has been influential and many times the catalyst for the many Henry and Rodgers goals so far this year, catapulting them at the top of the league for goals scored. Do you think that is just a coincidence and has nothing to do with DeRo given his role at the club. Or even moreso, that Backe doesn't see that?

Now I have provided evidence that they wanted him. Shoot...Soler goes as far to say that he wanted him for "several years". I showed you mine, I'd like to see yours now.

Clearly you did try. For 5 mins. So they liked DeRo and had to get rid of him for this new guy. They HAD to. They were forced for the betterment of the club. It was that the club was going to be stronger with new guy than DeRo. So they liked DeRo. Loved him and wanted him to stay. They just love the prospect of this other guy more.

It's not you it's me DeRo...

DeRo still got dumped.

[Roogsy]

If Dero is such a bonafide star he'd have garnered a better defensive mid fielder than dax.

I don't even know where to start with this statement it is so wrong. It alludes to the sports fallacy that you have to get "like for like" which is simply not true. I will just leave it at that. Getting Dax in the trade is not evidence that DeRo is not a "bonafide star". We got two cheap, unproven kids in our trade and this was after a career year for DeRo. GMs pull off trades that they can, not that they'd like.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Yeah I don't get that. Tchani and Borman have shown nothing yet and people are not upset with the trade. I am not saying they should be. In fact, at the time I said it was a decent return for a bad situation. I stand by that. And what is done is done. Considering we don't have a true backup or partner to JDG right now, I would say that McCarty would have also been a decent alternative in the DeRo trade. Especially since it would have provided us with a ready-made solution once JDG leaves.

And to show I'm not disagreeing with all things DeRo, Roogs, I'll say I'm NOT satisfied with our trade yet and it's only the expected potential from Tchani and Borman that points to breaking even on it thus far.

[v00d00daddy]

Yes, their actions. Good on them, they didn't dick around for months. Something wasn't working so they tried to correct it. Why did we waste the off-season and first few weeks of the season on something that any experienced manager would have seen wasn't going to work out?

You're right, if TFC had traded DeRo for Dax people would be screaming - and rightly so - but otherwise we're sure sitting around quietly waiting and hoping.

I agree. I'd have liked for TFC to be more active so far too.

But TFC's level of activity is not what we're talking. Just like the topic is not how much worse we are without dero. They're just distraction topics being used to avoid the fact that he was just traded for much less than people had been claiming he's worth.

[Roogsy]

Clearly you did try. For 5 mins. So they liked DeRo and had to get rid of him for this new guy. They HAD to. They were forced for the betterment of the club. It was that the club was going to be stronger with new guy than DeRo. So they liked DeRo. Loved him and wanted him to stay. They just love the prospect of this other guy more.

It's not you it's me DeRo...

DeRo still got dumped.

You call that trying? Obviously you have not seen the months I have spent defending this guy against the lunacy of this board.

According to your logic, teams don't trade based on need, they only trade based on a lack of satisfaction. Overwhelmingly untrue and I don't have the energy to prove to you how in the history of sport, NEED has supplanted any other factor in most trades.

Also according to your logic, any trade automatically classifies the outgoing player as having been "dumped". Who am I to argue against such airtight logic?

[Roogsy]

And to show I'm not disagreeing with all things DeRo, Roogs, I'll say I'm NOT satisfied with our trade yet and it's only the expected potential from Tchani and Borman that points to breaking even on it thus far.


Not disagreeing with "all things DeRO" but you're also not providing any evidence even though you asked it of me.

Tell me Pete, have you been watching NY games at all this year? I have. If so, what have you seen?

Oh and what team did McCarty play on last year?

[rocker]

Dax McCarty is a good player but wildly inconsistent these days. Both Dallas and DC gave up on him. I see him kinda like Robbie Rogers.... had great promise but hasn't fulfilled that promise. I think Tchani's physical tools and ability (2 years younger) are solid too. Where TFC got added value was in getting Borman and a first round pick. NYRB in the end got less than TFC did for De Ro.

[Pachuco]

I agree. I'd have liked for TFC to be more active so far too.

But TFC's level of activity is not what we're talking. Just like the topic is not how much worse we are without dero. They're just distraction topics being used to avoid the fact that he was just traded for much less than people had been claiming he's worth.

WHAT? so when you point to evidence that Dero is shit we are supposed to take it as on topic. When I point to evidence that Dero isn't shit it's a distraction topic? whatever dude. Your piece of evidence couldn't be more irrelevant in trying to prove that Dero isn't a star. Stars get traded EVERY DAY in EVERY LEAGUE. When there is a salary cap involved and big contracts involved a trade can seem lopsided on the surface. But what you fail to consider is that Dero wasn't traded for Dax. He was traded for Dax AND some salary cap space freed up.

[Roogsy]

In this league, salary cap space is more valuable than the players sometimes.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You call that trying? Obviously you have not seen the months I have spent defending this guy against the lunacy of this board.

According to your logic, teams don't trade based on need, they only trade based on a lack of satisfaction. Overwhelmingly untrue and I don't have the energy to prove to you how in the history of sport, NEED has supplanted any other factor in most trades.

Also according to your logic, any trade automatically classifies the outgoing player as having been "dumped". Who am I to argue against such airtight logic?

Oh I believe you on the value of NEED in sport. I'm not sure why you get so defensive if all I say is they NEEDED new guy more than they NEEEDED DeRo. Business or personal they chose new guy over DeRo. They prefer the look of their team with new guy over DeRo.

BTW I still like DeRo playing for Canada.

[Roogsy]

Oh I believe you on the value of NEED in sport. I'm not sure why you get so defensive if all I say is they NEEDED new guy more than they NEEEDED DeRo. Business or personal they chose new guy over DeRo. They prefer the look of their team with new guy over DeRo.

BTW I still like DeRo playing for Canada.

That's not what you said Pete. You said DeRo got dumped. Which indicates that the Dax pickup is superfluous to the intent of the trade.

And yeah they chose the new guy over DeRo. I never denied that. It's fundamental to the trade. But you never ask the question "why?" even though I have been screaming the answer for multiple pages.

Oh...and I am still waiting for your evidence Pete.

[v00d00daddy]

I don't even know where to start with this statement it is so wrong. It alludes to the sports fallacy that you have to get "like for like" which is simply not true. I will just leave it at that. Getting Dax in the trade is not evidence that DeRo is not a "bonafide star". We got two cheap, unproven kids in our trade and this was after a career year for DeRo. GMs pull off trades that they can, not that they'd like.

Like for like as in position for position or style for style? No...you're right. That's not how it works.

But value for value? Yes. Absolutely. NYRB (presumably) tried to get the best value while still addressing their needs.

Personally I think NYRB did well in the deal.

What I'm arguing is that they didnt get anywhere near the value you attribute to dero.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Not disagreeing with "all things DeRO" but you're also not providing any evidence even though you asked it of me.

Tell me Pete, have you been watching NY games at all this year? I have. If so, what have you seen?

Oh and what team did McCarty play on last year?

hahaha I've been keeping up with all the highlights around the league. DeRo's been in some of them.

Sorry, did you want me to wiki something for you?

[tfcleeds]

Because a trade for a different player is not "evidence". It's perfectly explained by the "needs" that NY has on their backline. Did Winter want DeRo gone? I know for a fact he didn't. So don't give me this "when a player is traded it's because the team wanted him out". It's an easy excuse that has no basis whatsoever in reality. For heaven's sakes, the Oilers traded Gretzky away in his prime. Why? Because they had a need to address.



I'm not weighing in on the motivations for NYRB trading DeRo, but I just wanted to point out that I don't think Gretzky is a very good example to use. The Gretzky trade wasn't based on "need" at all. The key to the Gretzky trade was the $15 million in cash that Peter Pocklington needed to save his floundering businesses, and had virtually nothing to do with what the Oilers needed as a team. When you look at what the Oilers received in return for Gretzky (along with Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski who also went to LA in the deal) they got: Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, and three draft picks (who ended up being Jason Miller, Martin Rucinsky, and Nick Stadujar). Yes, the Oilers won another Cup post-Gretzky, but you can make the argument they likely would have won many more had they not traded Gretzky. The above mentioned players never amounted to as much as Gretzky would have provided for the Oilers.

[Pachuco]

Dax McCarty is a good player but wildly inconsistent these days. Both Dallas and DC gave up on him. I see him kinda like Robbie Rogers.... had great promise but hasn't fulfilled that promise. I think Tchani's physical tools and ability (2 years younger) are solid too. Where TFC got added value was in getting Borman and a first round pick. NYRB in the end got less than TFC did for De Ro.

Maybe, but we also shopped Dero for ages. In fact, my guess is we shopped Dero for longer then he was even a player on the Red Bulls. It's quite possible this was a reaction move from NY to get a player they've been after.

I'll say it again, there will be overwhelming evidence of Dero's worth once he's shopping for a new contract at the end of the year.

[v00d00daddy]

WHAT? so when you point to evidence that Dero is shit we are supposed to take it as on topic. When I point to evidence that Dero isn't shit it's a distraction topic? whatever dude. Your piece of evidence couldn't be more irrelevant in trying to prove that Dero isn't a star. Stars get traded EVERY DAY in EVERY LEAGUE. When there is a salary cap involved and big contracts involved a trade can seem lopsided on the surface. But what you fail to consider is that Dero wasn't traded for Dax. He was traded for Dax AND some salary cap space freed up.

I've been talking about the trade and deros value within the trade.

You're the one who brought up TFC.

Again...while he was at TFC suggesting trading him for dax and some cap space (the amount is still unknown) would have been laughed at.

6 months later it's a good deal? Lol

[Pachuco]

Oh I believe you on the value of NEED in sport. I'm not sure why you get so defensive if all I say is they NEEDED new guy more than they NEEEDED DeRo. Business or personal they chose new guy over DeRo. They prefer the look of their team with new guy over DeRo.

BTW I still like DeRo playing for Canada.

And DC united preferred the look of their team WITH Dero. So what?

[ManUtd4ever]

Based on the general consensus of DCU supporters online following the trade, Dax McCarty is rated as a player that is comparable to Tchani; a young box to box midfielder with potential that is prone to errors and needs further development. If one considers the addition of Borman and a 1st round pick that were included in the initial transaction beteween New York and Toronto, I submit that TFC definitely received a far more valuable return for DeRo than New York.

[Roogsy]

I'm not weighing in on the motivations for NYRB trading DeRo, but I just wanted to point out that I don't think Gretzky is a very good example to use. The Gretzky trade wasn't based on "need" at all. The key to the Gretzky trade was the $15 million in cash that Peter Pocklington needed to save his floundering businesses, and had virtually nothing to do with what the Oilers needed as a team. When you look at what the Oilers received in return for Gretzky (along with Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski who also went to LA in the deal) they got: Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, and three draft picks (who ended up being Jason Miller, Martin Rucinsky, and Nick Stadujar). Yes, the Oilers won another Cup post-Gretzky, but you can make the argument they likely would have won many more had they not traded Gretzky. The above mentioned players never amounted to as much as Gretzky would have provided for the Oilers.


Your analysis is spot on except for one thing...you try to pigeon hole what "NEED" means. In the case of the Oilers, their needs were financial. We all know what a crook Pocklington was and he had hocked himself to his eyeballs. He made the trade because he, the owner of the team, needed cash. Yes, the team itself didn't have a strategic need for any of these players, but then again, that's not always the kind of need that generates these trades. Sometimes, it's strategic players, sometimes it's cash, sometimes it's salary cap room, sometimes it's expiring contracts. Teams look at what they "need" and make a decision. That is what happened with NY. If you go back and look at the articles from the past few weeks, there is a marked increase in concern with their defensive capabilities and questions arising whether it's good enough to stand up to an extended playoff run. Then they pull off this trade. Sometimes 2+2 does equal 4 but we just don't want to see it.

[Pachuco]

I've been talking about the trade and deros value within the trade.

You're the one who brought up TFC.

Again...while he was at TFC suggesting trading him for dax and some cap space (the amount is still unknown) would have been laughed at.

6 months later it's a good deal? Lol

Who the hell is saying it's a good deal? I'm saying it isn't evidence that Dero is shit, which is exactly what you are implying in your posts.

[v00d00daddy]

And just like all other dero threads...I'm done.

Good luck to him in DC.

[Fort York Redcoat]

That's not what you said Pete. You said DeRo got dumped. Which indicates that the Dax pickup is superfluous to the intent of the trade.

And yeah they chose the new guy over DeRo. I never denied that. It's fundamental to the trade. But you never ask the question "why?" even though I have been screaming the answer for multiple pages.

Oh...and I am still waiting for your evidence Pete.

Yeah but you never said it either. See, the thing is not as many people are going to care now that he's not on our team. I'd be more interested in the "why" if we're paying more somehow because of it.

Superfluous? People get dumped for different reasons or needs, don't they?

What did you need proof of?

[Derko]

We just can't escape the DeRo drama, It just gets all the passion flowing again, doesn't it!!

[Pachuco]

Based on the general consensus of DCU supporters online following the trade, Dax McCarty is rated as a player that is comparable to Tchani; a young box to box midfielder with potential that is prone to errors and needs further development. If one considers the addition of Borman and a 1st round pick that were included in the initial transaction beteween New York and Toronto, I submit that TFC definitely received a far more valuable return for DeRo than New York.

Agreed. But once again, TFC also had the luxury of shopping Dero for what seemed ages. Shit they probably shopped him even in the Preki era. You wait long enough and you'll get what you want. In NY's cases they didn't seem to wait to long. Not entirely sure what their motivation was to make this happen so quickly.

[Roogsy]

Yeah but you never said it either. See, the thing is not as many people are going to care now that he's not on our team. I'd be more interested in the "why" if we're paying more somehow because of it.

Superfluous? People get dumped for different reasons or needs, don't they?

What did you need proof of?


You said he was not wanted in NY, I asked you for evidence of that. You then asked me for evidence that he was wanted in NY and I provided it. I simply ask you to hold up your end.

As for what I "said"...I have been crystal clear in this entire conversation about why NY pulled off the trade. NY's defensive needs trumped DeRo's offensive contribution. Instead of tying games 3-3, NY is going to try to win 2-1. That's basically what this boils down to and I have said it every way from Sunday. I am not sure what other way I could have "said" it but if you need me to explicitly write the words "they needed a defensive minded player over an offensive minded player" then I just did. I thought all my posts previous to it already pointed to that opinion but I don't mind saying it again.

[Roogsy]

Agreed. But once again, TFC also had the luxury of shopping Dero for what seemed ages. Shit they probably shopped him even in the Preki era. You wait long enough and you'll get what you want. In NY's cases they didn't seem to wait to long. Not entirely sure what their motivation was to make this happen so quickly.


Two words: Rafa Marquez.

He is going to be out 2-3 weeks and in the meantime, NY has dropped from first in the conference because of a winless streak mostly caused by defensive collapses, particularly on set pieces.

[Pachuco]

Oh, and one more thing people aren't considering. Dero is a free agent at the end of the year. Meaning DC is paying for half a year of his services. Where NY was paying for an entire season when they probably started negotiating with TFC. When there is a risk that player will leave you in half a seaon, all of a sudden you are inclined to give up less for him.

[Roogsy]

Oh, and one more thing people aren't considering. Dero is a free agent at the end of the year. Meaning DC is paying for half a year of his services. Where NY was paying for an entire season when they probably started negotiating with TFC. When there is a risk that player will leave you in half a seaon, all of a sudden you are inclined to give up less for him.


Surely that doesn't come into play does it? Contract status/term affects trade value?

Scandalous!

[menefreghista]

Oh, and one more thing people aren't considering. Dero is a free agent at the end of the year. Meaning DC is paying for half a year of his services. Where NY was paying for an entire season when they probably started negotiating with TFC. When there is a risk that player will leave you in half a seaon, all of a sudden you are inclined to give up less for him.

I thought he had 1 or 2 more option years left after this season?

[Roogsy]

He has 1 option year left after this year.

[menefreghista]

He has 1 option year left after this year.

So if he really isn't a free agent yet.

If I'm DC I pick up the option.

[Pachuco]

He has 1 option year left after this year.

Ahh..nevermind then.

[Pachuco]

So if he really isn't a free agent yet.

If I'm DC I pick up the option.

But they have the luxury of waiting and seeing whether he's a good fit. I would waitif I were them.

[Roogsy]

But they have the luxury of waiting and seeing whether he's a good fit. I would waitif I were them.

I would agree. I think that's the cautious thing to do. If he helps them, they may have to pay more. But if he doesn't, they don't have to pick up the option.

But they may pick it up anyways if part of the trade includes TFC picking up the 2nd year. I don't know if it does.