DeRo traded to DC!

[ManUtd4ever]

He has 1 option year left after this year.

A club option if I remember correctly, therefore DCU will retain DeRo's rights next season as well unless they decline the option, which would then render him a free agent.

It will be interesting to see if DCU exercises the option to retain DeRo next season based on the financial perameters of his existing contract, and if so, will DeRo accept the same terms that he was so adamant to renegotiate in Toronto?

[Fort York Redcoat]

You said he was not wanted in NY, I asked you for evidence of that. You then asked me for evidence that he was wanted in NY and I provided it. I simply ask you to hold up your end.

As for what I "said"...I have been crystal clear in this entire conversation about why NY pulled off the trade. NY's defensive needs trumped DeRo's offensive contribution. Instead of tying games 3-3, NY is going to try to win 2-1. That's basically what this boils down to and I have said it every way from Sunday. I am not sure what other way I could have "said" it but if you need me to explicitly write the words "they needed a defensive minded player over an offensive minded player" then I just did. I thought all my posts previous to it already pointed to that opinion but I don't mind saying it again.

I agreed that he was not wanted in NY as much as the new guy. As you have. Can I use a quote from you as evidence?

It all means the same thing to me. After another trade in such a short time DeRo has a lot to do to raise his market value further.

[Roogsy]

Well, DeRo knew he was getting a renegotiation in NY and will likely make that clear to DCU as well. He has been consistent with all teams. TFC chose not to renegotiate, NYRB was going to and we will see about DCU.

[sashavukelich]

Dax was the starting midfielder for Dallas last year when they went on the cup run, he's little, but he plays well enough to get a call up to the men's national team. I'd say he's more proven than Tchani that's for sure.

[Roogsy]

I agreed that he was not wanted in NY as much as the new guy. As you have. Can I use a quote from you as evidence?

It all means the same thing to me. After another trade in such a short time DeRo has a lot to do to raise his market value further.

Sure you can quote me as long as you do it in the proper context. As for the way you phrase how he was "wanted", that's a nice slant you're putting on it. Because you are excluding the fact that the other side of the trade is the exact reverse. DCU wanted him more than they wanted Dax. So what does that say? That every trade you can make this ridiculous analysis. I guess the Oilers wanted Martin Gelinas more than they wanted Gretzky? But I guess it's all the "same thing" to you.

Still waiting on that evidence.

[Roogsy]

Dax was the starting midfielder for Dallas last year when they went on the cup run, he's little, but he plays well enough to get a call up to the men's national team. I'd say he's more proven than Tchani that's for sure.


I didn't want to say it because I already have a "pro DeRo" rep on here but I think Dax is getting a raw deal in this thread...mostly because of the bias against DeRo. But Dax is a solid prospect with some raw edges. He's definitely proven more than Tchani has and yet we still rate Tchani higher.

[brad]

And to show I'm not disagreeing with all things DeRo, Roogs, I'll say I'm NOT satisfied with our trade yet and it's only the expected potential from Tchani and Borman that points to breaking even on it thus far.

IMHO we can't fully judge the DeRo trade without knowing how much, if any cap space was opened up, and where that cap space get spent.

Did that trade make us weaker in the short term. Yes. Did it make us weaker for the rest of the season - that remains to be seen.

[Beach_Red]

I didn't want to say it because I already have a "pro DeRo" rep on here but I think Dax is getting a raw deal in this thread...mostly because of the bias against DeRo. But Dax is a solid prospect with some raw edges. He's definitely proven more than Tchani has and yet we still rate Tchani higher.


And we should keep in mind that for the most part MLS is a development league and what makes some teams better than others is their ability to develop players. It may be too late for most players, but some teams do seem to get more out of younger players than others.

[brad]

Dax was the starting midfielder for Dallas last year when they went on the cup run, he's little, but he plays well enough to get a call up to the men's national team. I'd say he's more proven than Tchani that's for sure.

have to gauge it within the context of what teams are chasing. TFC have are building for the future, so picking up a prospect like Tchani, who is considered one of if not they best prospects in the league makes a lot of sense.

[phonzo]

why the fuck do we care anymore? He's gone - doing whatever the hell he wants to do.

[Roogsy]

A couple of reasons.

It's MLS news.

It's news that affects TFC since it involves 2 conference rivals.

TFC is still paying some of his wages.

I'd say there is sufficient reason for this to be relevant to us.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Sure you can quote me as long as you do it in the proper context. As for the way you phrase how he was "wanted", that's a nice slant you're putting on it. Because you are excluding the fact that the other side of the trade is the exact reverse. DCU wanted him more than they wanted Dax. So what does that say? That every trade you can make this ridiculous analysis. I guess the Oilers wanted Martin Gelinas more than they wanted Gretzky? But I guess it's all the "same thing" to you.

Still waiting on that evidence.

Why would I slant it any other way? I'm don't have a Pro-DeRo bias.

I allow you to continue waiting on my evidence. Enjoy:D

[brad]

Kind of a shame these days that DeRo threads get pages of traffic, but we play Vancouver this evening and there isn't even a pre-game thread....

[Roogsy]

Why would I slant it any other way? I'm don't have a Pro-DeRo bias.

I allow you to continue waiting on my evidence. Enjoy:D

I assume then you have none, rendering your point baseless.

As for slanting it "any other way" you could always have no slant at all? Crazy idea I know.

[__wowza]

And just like all other dero threads...I'm done.

i think it was red coat that said this in the dero celtic trail thread:
'if you hated dero before, you still hate him now. if you didn't mind him before, you still don't.'

sums up a lot of the discussion in here.

[Roogsy]

i think it was red coat that said this in the dero celtic trail thread:
'if you hated dero before, you still hate him now. if you didn't mind him before, you still don't.'

sums up a lot of the discussion in here.


It's the genius of Billyfly.

[Ageroo]

For the record.....I like DeRo :)

[DangerRed]

As for slanting it "any other way" you could always have no slant at all? Crazy idea I know.

Hahahaha. That's so rich.

[Pookie]

A club option if I remember correctly, therefore DCU will retain DeRo's rights next season as well unless they decline the option, which would then render him a free agent.

It will be interesting to see if DCU exercises the option to retain DeRo next season based on the financial perameters of his existing contract, and if so, will DeRo accept the same terms that he was so adamant to renegotiate in Toronto?

There was a great line by Morgan Campbell in The Star this morning:

"But to become the million-dollar DP he has always wanted to be, De Rosario will have to persuade D.C. and the league to re-sign him at more than twice his current price, even though at 33 he’ll never be twice the player he is now."

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/article/1016458--mystery-surrounds-dwayne-de-rosario-s-latest-trade

[Waggy]

A player from Red Bulls got traded to DC. As people who support neither team, who cares? We aren't close to a playoff contender so they aren't standing in our way, though the competitor in me still hopes it works out terribly for both clubs

[Pookie]

In this league, salary cap space is more valuable than the players sometimes.

Which is another reason Winter/Mariner deserve our praise.

They received Tchani, who has no cap hit because he is Generation Adidas, and Borman who makes $42k. The 1st round pick obviously has no cap hit at present. TFC bought themselves $293k in cap space. Got 2 players and a draft pick.

Less than 3 months later, NYRB shed DeRo who has a league max cap hit of $335k. They took on McCarty who has a cap hit of $155k. Saving $180k against their cap over an annual basis.

Well done Mr Mariner.

[Yohan]

Anyone also not caring about this trade that much other than keeping track of player transfers in the league?

[menefreghista]

Well done Mr Mariner.

Yup, we are one of the worst teams in the league. Well done indeed.

[ArmenJBX]

If De Rosario asks for DP Money now though, it's completely unwarranted.
Simply put, he is no longer even in contention for a designated player role, even if he was with us, which I dispute.

And yet, I still remember months ago, Roogsy, when you and I had a little back and forth, where I said that the best deal we could get for De Rosario was 2-3 solid MLS players in exchange. In Toni Tchani and Danleigh Borman, as well as a first round pick, I think we came out on top even against NY and DC. It's obvious De Rosario's seen his best days now behind him, and I doubt fully that he can gain any sort of increase in form or quality in DC.

[Pookie]

Yup, we are one of the worst teams in the league. Well done indeed.

I missed our fall from grace. Must have been a short ride

[brad]

I just asked Ives about the DeRo cap hit in his Q&A, he says that he's been told we are paying a good portion of DeRo's salary and thinks NYRB are blowing smoke telling people that they made the trade to create cap space. He thinks DeRo wasn't a good fit and they had to unload him at a discount.

[TFC07]

was thinking this too

I think it will be best for both parties if DeRo comes back to Toronto. We both need each other! DeRo isn't going to find another market where he can make more money than Toronto while TFC desperately needs talented players.

I think it can happen especially if JDG is gone next season.

[phonzo]

really we are debating conference rivals in here?
his wages...

none of them have come up..just the same ole fucking DeRo thread....Roogsy versus World and World trying to rip apart roogsy for all his varying statements and vice versa...

can we just get a DeRo fucking sub-forum

[Oldtimer]

I understand the argument that NY may have traded DeRo for Dax because of specific roster needs. They could have loved DeRo but needed Dax more.

Just one thing doesn't make sense to me with this line of thinking:

If DeRo > Dax, why didn't Dax come with allocation $$$ or a draft pick. Seems to me that one of the "best attacking midfielders in the league" would call for more than a one-to-one trade. Or has his value fallen that much?




Well done Mr Mariner.

He made the best of an awful situation. I'm sure he had no choice, that Anselmi had already decided that DeRo was going. He got quite a bit for him, more than what NY got for him. That is good general management.


I just asked Ives <snip> He thinks DeRo wasn't a good fit and they had to unload him at a discount.

This supports the locker room problem theory. If that is true, he will not be getting DP $$$ from anyone.

[Beach_Red]

Which is another reason Winter/Mariner deserve our praise.

They received Tchani, who has no cap hit because he is Generation Adidas, and Borman who makes $42k. The 1st round pick obviously has no cap hit at present. TFC bought themselves $293k in cap space. Got 2 players and a draft pick.

Less than 3 months later, NYRB shed DeRo who has a league max cap hit of $335k. They took on McCarty who has a cap hit of $155k. Saving $180k against their cap over an annual basis.

Well done Mr Mariner.


Let's hope they're not resting on those rather slim laurels. So now there's cap space and DP slots available and the playoffs are still within reach. Anything less will be a huge failure.

[Pookie]

I just asked Ives about the DeRo cap hit in his Q&A, he says that he's been told we are paying a good portion of DeRo's salary and thinks NYRB are blowing smoke telling people that they made the trade to create cap space. He thinks DeRo wasn't a good fit and they had to unload him at a discount.

Even with my crude understanding of the MLS Cap, it appears to be a max savings of $180k annually. Given there was a question on whether they'd pick up his option, it really is about the $90k they would save from now till the end of the year.

Of course, all this ignores the cap hit they knew they were taking when they made the trade a few short weeks ago. I found these comments interesting in the NY Daily News:


We are going to do more moves in the summer, there is no doubt about it," said Soler, adding that McCarty, 24, would give the Red Bulls a better formation as a holding central midfielder. "So whatever we can get of money in the cap is good for us and we will move more things around."

Less than three months ago, Soler was talking much differently in another pregame press conference, lauding De Rosario after his April 1 acquisition as the club's savior, a "true No. 10" and "a game-changing player."

The Red Bulls are a win-now team, and De Rosario was their win-now player. But the 33-year-old never found his place in the system or a connection with Thierry Henry, who often strayed into De Rosario's position in the midfield, contributing to a 10-game MLS stretch with just one victory. Soler complimented Henry for his play as an attacking central midfielder.

Soler had no desire to give De Rosario a designated player salary, which was the midfielder's aspiration and the reason he squeezed himself out of Toronto in April. With his contract expiring after this season, the 33-year-old also wasn't part of the Red Bulls' long-term plans.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2011/06/29/2011-06-29_red_bulls_gm_erik_soler_says_dwayne_de_rosario_ deal_made_to_free_cap_space_to_pu.html#ixzz1QgcWYG jU



In any event, others are right, these are 2 teams that don't have Toronto in their name.

To me this is simply a vindication of Mariner/Winter's decision to move on from this player. That's just part of the story.

We got a decent return, judging by the drop in his market value, and need to use that pick wisely in the offseason. We also got ourselves cap space and need to use it effectively in a few weeks.

Once those pieces are known, we can close the books on this one.

[ExiledRed]

http://images.voodoolabs.net/random/random-0025.jpg

[Roogsy]

really we are debating conference rivals in here?
his wages...

none of them have come up..just the same ole fucking DeRo thread....Roogsy versus World and World trying to rip apart roogsy for all his varying statements and vice versa...

can we just get a DeRo fucking sub-forum

Some of us are debating about conference rivals. You're just complaining. Incredibly enough, for a guy who is complaining about this topic, I haven't seen you post in the pre-game thread for tonight's game? Here's a thought. Have a conversation in there first and then go and complain about the topics others are participating in.

[Fort York Redcoat]

http://images.voodoolabs.net/random/random-0025.jpg

I've seen it and now I can't un-see it.

[Nodoubtguy]

http://images.voodoolabs.net/random/random-0025.jpg

ummmm.....

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/8073/sincity_compare1.jpg

[Hustle]

Thats Fin wierd bro

[Alonso]

I doubt this is true. According to Soler they've been after McCarty since last year. Which means they rate him highly. All evidence points to DeRo being welcome and appreciated at NY, according to Soler and Backe, how much more appreciated would he be if he had 4 goals instead of 2? The point is DC got what it wanted, NY got what it wanted and that's all this trade is regardless of what those of us on this TFC board think or try to twist it into.


I don't think its 'twisting' to assume that the same thing that drove him out of Toronto (Wanting Dp money) is probably what drove him out of NY.

That's called connecting the dots.

[Shakes McQueen]

I find it a little odd that we are taking the platitudinous statements of Soler and Backe about DeRo being "appreciated" at face value, to the point where they are being used as actual evidence, when equivalent proclamations from our own staff would likely be heavily scrutinized.

It's rare that a player ever gets traded in any sport, and the GM/coach offers anything but effusive generic praise and thanks for the player's time there.

I suspect if DeRo was working out the way New York wanted, they probably wouldn't have flipped him to DC only a handful of weeks after trading for him, regardless of their defensive needs. He wasn't the only asset on that team.

Then again, I don't pretend to have any insight into New York's thinking process here. Perhaps New York really do rate McCarty as a DeRo-worthy acquisition. Perhaps New York decided they weren't impressed enough with DeRo to commit to negotiating for his desired raise anymore, and so they cut and ran to maximize their return. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

I do think taking the word of New York's front office is steeped in irony, at any rate.

- Scott

[ensco]

^I agree. The only thing that wasn't the usual pablum from Backe/Soler on Dero was the public criticism of Dero going to the Gold Cup. Dero's decision to go to that tournament was selfish from the NY POV.

It's just common sense. Dero's not Marquez, and Canada isn't Mexico. Nobody (except for 37 people on the RPB and Voyageur boards) would have cared if Dero had declined the call.

Comparing Dero's situation to that of Marquez, a major global star playing for a world class national team, who might get death threats if he got called and didn't go, is ridiculous.

I think that Backe just expected Dero to understand this. It obviously seriously pissed him off when he didn't.

[Yohan]

^I agree. The only thing that wasn't the usual pablum from Backe/Soler on Dero was the public criticism of Dero going to the Gold Cup. Dero's decision to go to that tournament was selfish from the NY POV.

It's just common sense. Dero's not Marquez, and Canada isn't Mexico. Nobody (except for 37 people on the RPB and Voyageur boards) would have cared if Dero had declined the call.

Comparing Dero's situation to that of Marquez, a major global star playing for a world class national team, who might get death threats if he got called and didn't go, is ridiculous.

I think that Backe just expected Dero to understand this. It obviously seriously pissed him off when he didn't.
hrm. so by same logic, Dane Richards, Tim Ream and Juan Agudelo should have all declined call ups because they are not in the same level as Marquez?

[ensco]

hrm. so by same logic, Dane Richards, Tim Ream and Juan Agudelo should have all declined call ups because they are not in the same level as Marquez?

They're not 33 years old. Nor did they cost NY what Dero cost them.

Nobody forced NY to make a big investment in Dero. Caveat emptor.

[Yohan]

They're not 33 years old. Nor did they cost NY what Dero cost them.

Nobody forced NY to make a big investment in Dero. Caveat emptor.

Every manager knows the risk of signing a national team. Is it dero's fault that backe didnt do his homework? Backe knew about gc dates.

More i think about this, more this sounds like a hissy fit by backe for making this. Backe is pissed that he lost 5 key players for gc.

I dont buy dero shouldnt have gone bc he's old and cost ny a lot. If you look at other players, arguably they play just as important role for ny as dero.

[ensco]

It's not a hissy fit. This goes on every day with every team, although usually it doesn't break out in public.

Guys who play for minnows in world football always have massive pressure on them to skip their national team games (only exception seems to be WC or Euro qualifying).

A lot of guys get "injuries" to deal with the problem of skipping games without incurring wrath at home. Others just do what the manager wants (Giggs) and take the consequences. Some play anyway (Dero).