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denime
06-22-2011, 05:36 AM
Mornin'


TFC TV (http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp)


Toronto's amazing fans; (http://www.socceramerica.com/article/42622/torontos-amazing-fans-revs-hit-another-low.html)


Reserves Concede Late (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/06/reserves-concede-late)


BDK Paces TFC At Open Practice (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/06/bdk-paces-through-open-practice)


Canada v. England: A Family Affair (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/06/canada-v-england-family-affair)


Canada must remain focused against England at U-17 (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/06/21/sp-canada-england-u17.html)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl):o


_

London
06-22-2011, 05:44 AM
21000 at the seatle match???

dont think so

ginkster88
06-22-2011, 06:46 AM
Paper numbers. What a joke.

keem-o-sabi
06-22-2011, 06:49 AM
coed girls 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/06/21/miss-coed-devrie-townsend-11-pics/) & 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/06/13/miss-coed-brenae-danielle-19-pics/)

ecospice
06-22-2011, 07:05 AM
21000 at the seatle match???

dont think so

I had to miss the game, so I cannot comment on how many appeared to be in the stands....

If the table in the article is correct, then TFC apparently has nearly 1,000 less fans at home games this year, than they did last year.

If one assumes an average ticket price of $20 that is $20,000 less in gross ticket revenue per game, not to mention the knock-on of a drop in gross revenue from concessions/beer/merchandise sales at the pitch. [I have noticed that the beer and concession lines take less time this year than last (but that is a highly subjective opinion).]

Apply that reduction in gross revenue at the pitch across the entire home schedule and the team's bottom line will obviously suffer.

Fort York Redcoat
06-22-2011, 07:12 AM
I had to miss the game, so I cannot comment on how many appeared to be in the stands....

If the table in the article is correct, then TFC apparently has nearly 1,000 less fans at home games this year, than they did last year.

If one assumes an average ticket price of $20 that is $20,000 less in gross ticket revenue per game, not to mention the knock-on of a drop in gross revenue from concessions/beer/merchandise sales at the pitch. [I have noticed that the beer and concession lines take less time this year than last (but that is a highly subjective opinion).]

Apply that reduction in gross revenue at the pitch across the entire home schedule and the team's bottom line will obviously suffer.

While the bottom line is far lower this season one must take into account that no NA franchise needs a sellout crowd, or to sellout of merch and beer to turn a profit. Even if that STH waiting list is half phony and now dried up most tickets were purchased this year.

I know we want to think that the drop in demand has our team shaking in their boots, ready to give us anything we want but I don't hear them "suffering" yet. One year does not a panic make in this league. See Dallas, Columbus, Colorado. And some of those are winning teams.

CoachGT
06-22-2011, 07:17 AM
To MLSE, one year can create a panic. Look at the situation with the Raptors, cutting prices to try and bring back fans. They look at continuous growth. I'd be surprised if they were not concerned about the "atmosphere" that they sell TFC with - it has been absent for a few weeks now.

This year, it seems to me that pretty much every game has overstated attendance by at least 20%. I'm starting to wonder what they use for attendance, actual gate numbers, sales, whether they include freebies, and so on. Other than the LA game, nothing has even appeared to be close to a sell out this year.

Technorgasm
06-22-2011, 07:24 AM
3 lions baby.

Fort York Redcoat
06-22-2011, 07:25 AM
^Eat it.

Oblio2
06-22-2011, 07:26 AM
3 lions baby.

Word.

Fort York Redcoat
06-22-2011, 07:29 AM
^Again

denime
06-22-2011, 07:46 AM
^Eat it.


^Again

What he said !!! :canada:

maninb
06-22-2011, 07:48 AM
Yikes...looks like we're missing AT LEAST 4 starters for Saturday...and with Gordon out we've got no chance of scoring.....

ManUtd4ever
06-22-2011, 07:48 AM
21000 at the seatle match???

dont think so

From my vantage point in 119, that number sounds fairly accurate. Once the fans settled into their seats about 20 minutes into the match, I didn't notice nearly as many empty seats as usual this season.

Mikey
06-22-2011, 07:50 AM
I had to miss the game, so I cannot comment on how many appeared to be in the stands....

If the table in the article is correct, then TFC apparently has nearly 1,000 less fans at home games this year, than they did last year.

If one assumes an average ticket price of $20 that is $20,000 less in gross ticket revenue per game, not to mention the knock-on of a drop in gross revenue from concessions/beer/merchandise sales at the pitch. [I have noticed that the beer and concession lines take less time this year than last (but that is a highly subjective opinion).]

Apply that reduction in gross revenue at the pitch across the entire home schedule and the team's bottom line will obviously suffer.

Their original business model was based on average crowds of about 12-13,000. So the last five years and being able to double ticket prices have been gravy. I don't think they are worried at all.

menefreghista
06-22-2011, 07:52 AM
This year, it seems to me that pretty much every game has overstated attendance by at least 20%. I'm starting to wonder what they use for attendance, actual gate numbers, sales, whether they include freebies, and so on. Other than the LA game, nothing has even appeared to be close to a sell out this year.

I use to think they simply announced paid attendance.

But earlier in the year they announced a really low number for a game. And a few days later a news article came out where they claimed that they announce turnstile counts, not paid attendance.

So now I don't really know what to believe.

What I do know is that the numbers they announce and the actual number of people in the stands never appear to match.

zeelaw
06-22-2011, 08:03 AM
MLSE, is in store for such an amazing shock when they see the real attendance numbers...

menefreghista
06-22-2011, 08:08 AM
MLSE, is in store for such an amazing shock when they see the real attendance numbers...

I'm sure they already know though.

Carts
06-22-2011, 08:10 AM
[I have noticed that the beer and concession lines take less time this year than last (but that is a highly subjective opinion).]


I gotta say - I have had the same experience this year...

The beer line, and (which is related I guess) the mens washroom line have been much much much shorter / quicker this season...

The LA Saturday night match was like a throw back to the "way it used to be" as it took the entire halftime to line up for the washroom, get a beer, and be back in my seat - just as the half was starting...

Most other games, I do the exact same routine, only now I am back in my seats with 7mins-5mins still on the clock counting down at the half...

Is it exact science, no - but I think it says alot...

Carts...

Parkdale
06-22-2011, 08:12 AM
21000 at the seatle match???

dont think so


I dunno man.... it was probably the fullest game since the season opener.
ALL of the east stands were packed, and the west was pretty full too.

Sure it might not have been a real 'sellout' but it was much more packed than the last few games.

TFC Cityboy
06-22-2011, 08:34 AM
I'd put the Seattle game at around 19-20,000. A good indication of seats sold is the number of bums on seats in the North stand and 226/227 and all were pretty full (compared the past few matches).

Now, this was the Fathers' Day weekend - likely lots of Dads "treated" (yeah) to a day at the match. Also those fair weather fans who check the forecast before coming out were out in force (Toronto til it rains,Toronto til it rains, I know I am I'm sure I am Toronto til it rains).
But there were plenty of gaps in 115 and in 114 most sat down for the whole game.
Sure ain't what it used to be...

Oldtimer
06-22-2011, 08:49 AM
CV2 has really grown up. Not annoying any more.

JonO
06-22-2011, 08:51 AM
I gotta say - I have had the same experience this year...

The beer line, and (which is related I guess) the mens washroom line have been much much much shorter / quicker this season...

I'm sure some of that has to do with the crappy schedule and weather we had to open the season. I'm sure both attendance and beer sales would have improved if the scheduling and weather had been better.

Roogsy
06-22-2011, 09:15 AM
To MLSE, one year can create a panic. Look at the situation with the Raptors, cutting prices to try and bring back fans. They look at continuous growth. I'd be surprised if they were not concerned about the "atmosphere" that they sell TFC with - it has been absent for a few weeks now.

This year, it seems to me that pretty much every game has overstated attendance by at least 20%. I'm starting to wonder what they use for attendance, actual gate numbers, sales, whether they include freebies, and so on. Other than the LA game, nothing has even appeared to be close to a sell out this year.


Not only do they look at continuous growth, they count on it. Even if revenues were to remain flat, it would be a disappointment, let alone if revenues actually declined. (Which I assume is the case since there is less attendance, less concessions and of course, they are now broadcasting games on GolTV.) I can't quantify how much less revenue they are generating but considering the very tight margins MLSE has on TFC in general, I wouldn't be surprised if this year the team is in the red.

Roogsy
06-22-2011, 09:24 AM
Their original business model was based on average crowds of about 12-13,000. So the last five years and being able to double ticket prices have been gravy. I don't think they are worried at all.


It's not gravy because they adjust their projections accordingly. It was gravy for year 1 and maybe 2 but beyond that, they are now expectations. Expenditures like the grass and the academy are based on NEW projections, not 2007 projections.

Parkdale
06-22-2011, 09:35 AM
Expenditures like the grass and the academy are based on NEW projections, not 2007 projections.


but I thought Edu paid for that......

:smilielol5:



:sad:

jabbronies
06-22-2011, 09:49 AM
but I thought Edu paid for that......

:smilielol5:



:sad:

The word I got from a reliable bird said he paid for about $2M of the grass.

Oldtimer
06-22-2011, 10:18 AM
The word I got from a reliable bird said he paid for about $2M of the grass.

Bitchy? :D

CretanBull
06-22-2011, 10:30 AM
C'mon Canada, stick it to those limey bastards! :D

levyashin
06-22-2011, 10:33 AM
just had relative over from u.k.he has supported coventry city for 60 years.he has seen the good ,bad,and ugly from his team.europe to relegation ,good teams and bad.selling players to survive.everything in between.took him to seattle game.loved the atmosphere,amazed that tfc had crowds at 20.000(cov. city ave 15,000)ticket cost 12 pound($18 )they are in championship league.HE HOPES THAT ONE DAY WE HAVE A TEAM WORTH SUPPORTING,he felt that the quality on offer was equivalent to blue square.

jabbronies
06-22-2011, 10:37 AM
Bitchy? :D



This guy:

http://toronto.metblogs.com/archives/images/2007/12/bjbirdie.JPG

Whoop
06-22-2011, 10:38 AM
The North Stand was the fullest it's been this year, aside from the LA match.

ginkster88
06-22-2011, 10:42 AM
just had relative over from u.k.he has supported coventry city for 60 years.he has seen the good ,bad,and ugly from his team.europe to relegation ,good teams and bad.selling players to survive.everything in between.took him to seattle game.loved the atmosphere,amazed that tfc had crowds at 20.000(cov. city ave 15,000)ticket cost 12 pound($18 )they are in championship league.HE HOPES THAT ONE DAY WE HAVE A TEAM WORTH SUPPORTING,he felt that the quality on offer was equivalent to blue square.

Saturday was unwatchable but for three nice movements by TFC. I left after 87 minutes; if the team couldn't be bothered then neither can I and I'm not going to wait in lines after a performance like that. Call me a part time supporter or whatever, I don't give a shit. I've stopped watching TFC on television because it's such garbage soccer. MLSE needs to understand that as their new fans learn more about the game they're going to love TFC less and less... and that should scare them. A lot! TFC got me into the game, and now I can't stand to watch TFC... and I know I'm not alone!

Stouffville_RPB
06-22-2011, 10:58 AM
3 lions baby.

I'm assuming that means that you are pulling for England v Canada in the U17 WC.

Not to get into the whole debate again but wasn't it with you that I was talking to post game about supporting Canada over your "homeland".

If it wasn't you then my bad (though I would then tell you to "EAT IT!!!").

spark
06-22-2011, 11:00 AM
just had relative over from u.k.he has supported coventry city for 60 years.he has seen the good ,bad,and ugly from his team.europe to relegation ,good teams and bad.selling players to survive.everything in between.took him to seattle game.loved the atmosphere,amazed that tfc had crowds at 20.000(cov. city ave 15,000)ticket cost 12 pound($18 )they are in championship league.HE HOPES THAT ONE DAY WE HAVE A TEAM WORTH SUPPORTING,he felt that the quality on offer was equivalent to blue square.

Interesting - I've brought friends from the UK to games and they've said the same thing.

Dbl_D
06-22-2011, 11:09 AM
I dunno man.... it was probably the fullest game since the season opener.
ALL of the east stands were packed, and the west was pretty full too.

Sure it might not have been a real 'sellout' but it was much more packed than the last few games.

except by the 85th minute half the east stands had left to catch the GO... so lame...

CretanBull
06-22-2011, 11:09 AM
just had relative over from u.k.he has supported coventry city for 60 years.he has seen the good ,bad,and ugly from his team.europe to relegation ,good teams and bad.selling players to survive.everything in between.took him to seattle game.loved the atmosphere,amazed that tfc had crowds at 20.000(cov. city ave 15,000)ticket cost 12 pound($18 )they are in championship league.HE HOPES THAT ONE DAY WE HAVE A TEAM WORTH SUPPORTING,he felt that the quality on offer was equivalent to blue square.

It's hard to compare really. The level of athletism in the MLS is pretty high, but the level of play in the lower level of English soccer is much higher.

The players over there are WAY more intuitive, they have a deeper and more natural understanding of the game. There's more flow to the games in England because the players have things like positional play and off the ball movement ingrained in them from birth - they're not taught those things, its the benefit that they have from growing up being surrounded by the game.

On the flip side of that, no league under the Championship has the individual talents like Beckham, Donovan, Henry etc. There might be a dozen or so Premiership calibre players in the MLS - thats not something you can say about FL1 or lower in England.

ginkster88
06-22-2011, 11:14 AM
On the flip side of that, no league under the Championship has the individual talents like Beckham, Donovan, Henry etc. There might be a dozen or so Premiership calibre players in the MLS - thats not something you can say about FL1 or lower in England.

That's not something you can say about TFC and most of their opponents either.

NYRB vs. LA or RSL vs. Dallas is a different conversation than TFC vs. SKC or Chivas vs. Vancouver.

Most of the matchups in MLS are going to be ugly, low skill affairs.

Brooker
06-22-2011, 11:24 AM
except by the 85th minute half the east stands had left to catch the GO... so lame...

are people still getting sandy vaginas over this? It's year 5... stop worrying about what other people are doing.

CretanBull
06-22-2011, 11:25 AM
That's not something you can say about TFC and most of their opponents either.

NYRB vs. LA or RSL vs. Dallas is a different conversation than TFC vs. SKC or Chivas vs. Vancouver.

Most of the matchups in MLS are going to be ugly, low skill affairs.

Sadly, I know :(

dow117
06-22-2011, 12:14 PM
I use to think they simply announced paid attendance.

But earlier in the year they announced a really low number for a game. And a few days later a news article came out where they claimed that they announce turnstile counts, not paid attendance.

So now I don't really know what to believe.

What I do know is that the numbers they announce and the actual number of people in the stands never appear to match.


BMO looked pretty full to me vs. Seattle. I would say the 21K is correct ...

menefreghista
06-22-2011, 12:20 PM
BMO looked pretty full to me vs. Seattle. I would say the 21K is correct ...

I think its deceivingly full though.

When I look at the East stands from my south end corner seat, it looks pretty full due to the angle.

But when I re-watch the games on TV the East stands are never more than 75% full. And they are often even less full than that.

As has been mentioned, there was no denying that the LA game was to capacity. No other game has felt like that.

drexel10
06-22-2011, 12:23 PM
BMO looked pretty full to me vs. Seattle. I would say the 21K is correct ...

I believe it was as well. I think they have been pretty accurate with announced attendances, because if it was tickets sold it would be much higher all the time. My section in 109 is almost all STH, but not always very full (was this Saturday).

For some reason people always feel that MLSE is fabricating the truth.

dow117
06-22-2011, 12:32 PM
Saturday was unwatchable but for three nice movements by TFC. I left after 87 minutes; if the team couldn't be bothered then neither can I and I'm not going to wait in lines after a performance like that. Call me a part time supporter or whatever, I don't give a shit. I've stopped watching TFC on television because it's such garbage soccer. MLSE needs to understand that as their new fans learn more about the game they're going to love TFC less and less... and that should scare them. A lot! TFC got me into the game, and now I can't stand to watch TFC... and I know I'm not alone!


R U kidding me ... that was a fast paced, exciting game with some decent stuff especially the first half... don't know what u consider unwatchable !!!

Ultra & Proud
06-22-2011, 12:35 PM
except by the 85th minute half the east stands had left to catch the GO... so lame...

That's what you get for ditching the half past the hour starts. Those old 3:30s and 7:30s were perfect.

ginkster88
06-22-2011, 01:18 PM
R U kidding me ... that was a fast paced, exciting game with some decent stuff especially the first half... don't know what u consider unwatchable !!!

We must have been watching different games. Very few stretches of control for either side, too many giveaways, return of the longball... looked like a highschool match for much of the game.

mastermixer
06-22-2011, 01:21 PM
We must have been watching different games. Very few stretches of control for either side, too many giveaways, return of the longball... looked like a highschool match for much of the game.

This is what puzzled me... wasnt the whole point of total football supposed to minimize the long ball to nowhere? Seems like that was all we did last game.

PopePouri
06-22-2011, 01:31 PM
This is what puzzled me... wasnt the whole point of total football supposed to minimize the long ball to nowhere? Seems like that was all we did last game.

It's 4-3-3 with a mixture of long ball and playing out from the back.

craigtfc
06-22-2011, 01:34 PM
TFC Keeper To Get England Start?
Either Roberts or Bush should get the call at U-17 World Cup tonight

An injury to starting goalkeeper Maxime Crépeau in the opening match ensures that a Toronto FC Academy keeper, either Quillan Roberts or Chad Bush, will get the start against the English.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/06/tfc-keeper-get-england-start?

Yagbod
06-22-2011, 01:44 PM
I think MLSE would ban all fans for life for something like this, but it does look wicked (academy game?):

http://www.thescore.com/buzz/articles/146683-what-an-entrance

maninb
06-22-2011, 02:03 PM
I think MLSE would ban all fans for life for something like this, but it does look wicked (academy game?):

http://www.thescore.com/buzz/articles/146683-what-an-entrance

The few times I've seen flares at BMO, the fools had no idea how to handle them....

TFC07
06-22-2011, 02:04 PM
3 lions baby.

3 lions? More like 3 kittens these days. England = soft!

Couchy81
06-22-2011, 02:26 PM
I think MLSE would ban all fans for life for something like this, but it does look wicked (academy game?):

http://www.thescore.com/buzz/articles/146683-what-an-entrance

This clip's longer but from the semi's of the same tourney. PEÑAROL sure know how to use fire!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh3CbvELLog&feature=player_embedded

London
06-22-2011, 02:32 PM
I believe it was as well. I think they have been pretty accurate with announced attendances, because if it was tickets sold it would be much higher all the time. My section in 109 is almost all STH, but not always very full (was this Saturday).

For some reason people always feel that MLSE is fabricating the truth.


hardly LOL

the stadium was pretty full but there is no way there was 21000 there .

18-19000 probably.

and MLSE does clearly fabricate the numbers, everyone remembers anounced attendances of above 16000 when the stadium was half empty.

then there was the time they stood outside the ski and snowboard show and handed out free tickets to get butts in the stands, etc, etc

Suds
06-22-2011, 02:37 PM
3 lions? More like 3 kittens these days. England = soft!

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTJFkQ-4k3KrDodHzEy9jTEWBpbx3hdRftl7qCxsdG0Em64Ce_

yeah, I'm being a shit disturber :D