View Full Version : Owen Hargreaves
TFCin110
06-26-2011, 09:34 PM
TFC signs Hargreaves and people boo him because he chose not to play for Canada? How rediculous is that...wow.
Macksam
06-26-2011, 11:08 PM
TFC signs Hargreaves and people boo him because he chose not to play for Canada? How rediculous is that...wow.
Are you surprised something like that could happen?
tfcleeds
06-26-2011, 11:33 PM
TFC signs Hargreaves and people boo him because he chose not to play for Canada? How rediculous is that...wow.
Many of us here are just as strong supporters of the CMNT as we are of TFC. Many of us are (or have been) members of the Voyageurs and followed the whole OH saga when it was going on, so why does it surprise you that we wouldn't take too kindly to Hargreaves joining our club?
I for one would find it VERY difficult to cheer for him, and many others would be in the same boat. It would be, for many people on here, the most controversial signing in TFC history.
Roogsy
06-26-2011, 11:39 PM
I'm not a Voyageur and was not tuned into the OH drama and even I would find it hard to cheer for him.
Stryker
06-27-2011, 12:16 AM
I have a hard time believing that one, he would consider playing here, and two, Winter would be stupid enough to sign him.
Shakes McQueen
06-27-2011, 05:50 AM
I'm not a Voyageur and was not tuned into the OH drama and even I would find it hard to cheer for him.
Same here, but not cheering for him is different than booing him, haha.
- Scott
Heathen
06-27-2011, 05:57 AM
TFC signs Hargreaves and people boo him because he chose not to play for Canada? How rediculous is that...wow.
What's ridiculous is that there are "Canadians" who would actively cheer for him
Derko
06-27-2011, 06:02 AM
that is totally different and you know it.
booing a specific player in a TFC kit while he's playing for TFC and it is completely unrelated to his play on the pitch
i also don't agree with booing our players during the game anyway, we should be cheering them on...supporting them.
what you're referring to was at the end of a very frustrating game and it was emotion let out about the team as a collective...again very different..
I agree, but do the players analyze the booing, no they just hear booing at the end of a frustrating match and they walked off the field with heads down.
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 07:24 AM
Well, as is usually the case, hopefully the opinions on here aren't what the majority of supporters believe. Generally, this board beats to its own drum. I'd say in this case the people that would boo him will look stupid doing to the general masses. But hey, who am I.......boo away!
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 07:43 AM
Well, as is usually the case, hopefully the opinions on here aren't what the majority of supporters believe. Generally, this board beats to its own drum. I'd say in this case the people that would boo him will look stupid doing to the general masses. But hey, who am I.......boo away!
Read above and you'll see that it is hardly only "this board" who feels this way.
Hell you can actually type "Hargreaves" here and not have it censored. Not that I like seeing his name in type. Just noting the common disdain.
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Read above and you'll see that it is hardly only "this board" who feels this way.
Hell you can actually type "Hargreaves" here and not have it censored. Not that I like seeing his name in type. Just noting the common disdain.
I'd wager my house that it'll be a handful of people booing one of our own players for his national team affiliation. I wonder what the other players would think of the ignorant bunch that boo one of their own.
Shakes McQueen
06-27-2011, 09:24 AM
I'd wager my house that it'll be a handful of people booing one of our own players for his national team affiliation. I wonder what the other players would think of the ignorant bunch that boo one of their own.
Can you at least stop misrepresenting the opinions of those you disagree with?
They wouldn't be booing him simply for "his national team affiliation" - they would be booing him because of the circumstances leading up to that point.
I wouldn't boo Hargreaves, but I also don't like disingenuous argumentation.
- Scott
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 09:31 AM
Can you at least stop misrepresenting the opinions of those you disagree with?
They wouldn't be booing him simply for "his national team affiliation" - they would be booing him because of the circumstances leading up to that point.
I wouldn't boo Hargreaves, but I also don't like disingenuous argumentation.
- Scott
I'm sorry, but the crux of the issue is which national side he chose to play with. That would be the reason for the booing, and I would think, that our own players would find it very disheartening to find TFC "supporters" (and I use that term very loosely for those who would be one of our own) booing their own player because he chose not to play for Canada. Essentially, crapping all over the guy for something that has nothing to do with this team, that game, that situation.
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 09:39 AM
I'd wager my house that it'll be a handful of people booing one of our own players for his national team affiliation. I wonder what the other players would think of the ignorant bunch that boo one of their own.
I'd wager your house that there would be less than a handful of people that would be silent that knew him or the situation. If you want to align yourself with people who wouldn't even care to know the circumstances, go ahead, but that doesn't make us ignorant.
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 09:47 AM
I'd wager your house that there would be less than a handful of people that would be silent that knew him or the situation. If you want to align yourself with people who wouldn't even care to know the circumstances, go ahead, but that doesn't make us ignorant.
I know the circumstances.....but guess what, in case you didn't know we are talking about him signing for a club team. The team we all signed up to support, the team has nothing to do with the Canadian national team.
So, we'd have 11 TFC players out their busting their ass trying to win a game and people are booing one of our own players because of the circumtances that lead him to play for another country? I'm sorry, but that is ignorant. I am sure Frei, Gargan, Maicon, etc. would support this cause. :facepalm:
If Canada play England and Hargreaves is playing, go nuts....boo away. That's the time and place to boo him. The people at BMO Field that pay for tickets when TFC are playing come to watch and support....wait for it.....
TFC!!!! Not the Canadian national team.
Heathen
06-27-2011, 09:52 AM
I know the circumstances.....but guess what, in case you didn't know we are talking about him signing for a club team. The team we all signed up to support, the team has nothing to do with the Canadian national team.
So, we'd have 11 TFC players out their busting their ass trying to win a game and people are booing one of our own players because of the circumtances that lead him to play for another country? I'm sorry, but that is ignorant. I am sure Frei, Gargan, Maicon, etc. would support this cause. :facepalm:
If Canada play England and Hargreaves is playing, go nuts....boo away. That's the time and place to boo him. The people at BMO Field that pay for tickets when TFC are playing come to watch and support....wait for it.....
TFC!!!! Not the Canadian national team.
Says it all really
menefreghista
06-27-2011, 09:58 AM
I'm sorry, but that is ignorant.
I don't think you are using the proper word to convey what you are trying to say.
If TFC signed Whoregreaves and people booed him I wouldn't consider those people ignorant. If anything I would consider them informed fans with integrity.
If anything its ignorant to defend Whoregreaves actions. Because most people who defend him tend to be ignorant of the situation and have their facts all wrong.
tfcleeds
06-27-2011, 09:58 AM
I know the circumstances.....but guess what, in case you didn't know we are talking about him signing for a club team. The team we all signed up to support, the team has nothing to do with the Canadian national team.
So, we'd have 11 TFC players out their busting their ass trying to win a game and people are booing one of our own players because of the circumtances that lead him to play for another country? I'm sorry, but that is ignorant. I am sure Frei, Gargan, Maicon, etc. would support this cause. :facepalm:
If Canada play England and Hargreaves is playing, go nuts....boo away. That's the time and place to boo him. The people at BMO Field that pay for tickets when TFC are playing come to watch and support....wait for it.....
TFC!!!! Not the Canadian national team.
Doesn't change the fact that it would be a controversial, potentially divisive signing given the circumstances. Simplest thing, and a sure way to keep everybody happy, is just not to sign him at all (and I'm sure many Whitecaps fans would feel the same say, FWIW).
Of course, the other key point in this thread (and perhaps more relevant) is why bother signing him if he's just going to be injured all the time? He'd last two seconds in this league. Doesn't benefit TFC, doesn't benefit him by coming here necessarily.
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 10:03 AM
I know the circumstances.....but guess what, in case you didn't know we are talking about him signing for a club team. The team we all signed up to support, the team has nothing to do with the Canadian national team.
So, we'd have 11 TFC players out their busting their ass trying to win a game and people are booing one of our own players because of the circumtances that lead him to play for another country? I'm sorry, but that is ignorant. I am sure Frei, Gargan, Maicon, etc. would support this cause. :facepalm:
If Canada play England and Hargreaves is playing, go nuts....boo away. That's the time and place to boo him. The people at BMO Field that pay for tickets when TFC are playing come to watch and support....wait for it.....
TFC!!!! Not the Canadian national team.
You cannot convince me that it doesn't matter who plays for TFC as long as they are good. And Hargreaves is not anymore BTW as has been talked about throughout this thread. I'm just happy this pipedream of having this incredible player here has reached this ridiculous level so we can put to rest whether or not he should play here as a turncoat or not.
He's broken at worst and fragile at best.
Rip on me for being a short sighted, bull headed patriot but to want him here now one would have to be obtuse with the evidence of how he would fail to endure and fail to make a major contribution to this team.
Obtuse is to strong a word but one would be ignoring facts. Acting ignorant, if you will.
Heathen
06-27-2011, 10:04 AM
I have to say I wonder how many of those who defend Hargreaves would be quite so vehement if it wasn't England and Man Utd he'd played for
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 10:04 AM
Doesn't change the fact that it would be a controversial, potentially divisive signing given the circumstances. Simplest thing, and a sure way to keep everybody happy, is just not to sign him at all (and I'm sure many Whitecaps fans would feel the same say, FWIW).
Of course, the other key point in this thread (and perhaps more relevant) is why bother signing him if he's just going to be injured all the time? He'd last two seconds in this league. Doesn't benefit TFC, doesn't benefit him by coming here necessarily.
Well, yes, not signing him because of injury concerns totally justified. But not signing a player because he chose not to play for Canada......rediculous. Hell, by that standard, Liverpool should have had Jamie Carragher out on his ass a few years ago when he quit on the FA!
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 10:06 AM
I have to say I wonder how many of those who defend Hargreaves would be quite so vehement if it wasn't England and Man Utd he'd played for
Unlike some on this board I support TFC and the players that play for us. I don't care who he played for...
Heathen
06-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Well, yes, not signing him because of injury concerns totally justified. But not signing a player because he chose not to play for Canada......rediculous. Hell, by that standard, Liverpool should have had Jamie Carragher out on his ass a few years ago when he quit on the FA!
Carragher said that he didn't really care that much losing to England compared to Liverpool defeats, so he actually endeared himself even more to the Liverpool fans. It's also not as if the club was making a decision to sign him he was already there.
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 10:44 AM
Carragher said that he didn't really care that much losing to England compared to Liverpool defeats, so he actually endeared himself even more to the Liverpool fans. It's also not as if the club was making a decision to sign him he was already there.
No, I was referring to the fact that Carragher, being unhappy at not being selected or not making as many appearances, declared hinself unavailable to play for England. "If I'm not a regular starter at this stage of my England career, I don't think I will ever be. It's going to be difficult for me to be seen as anything more than a squad player, and that's not what I'm interested in," "I wasn't giving up my football career or my ambitions. Only England."Yet Liverpool supporters did not boo him for walking out on the national team, or his indifference to the national team while he was playing for them.
The fact he was at the club or not isn't the issue. It's that he turned his back on his national side, yet the Liverpool fans were able to make the distinction of club and country.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 10:52 AM
keep trying to force the hargreaves-carragher analogy, you've almost got it!
not
-borat
Shakes McQueen
06-27-2011, 10:55 AM
No, I was referring to the fact that Carragher, being unhappy at not being selected or not making as many appearances, declared hinself unavailable to play for England. "If I'm not a regular starter at this stage of my England career, I don't think I will ever be. It's going to be difficult for me to be seen as anything more than a squad player, and that's not what I'm interested in," "I wasn't giving up my football career or my ambitions. Only England."Yet Liverpool supporters did not boo him for walking out on the national team, or his indifference to the national team while he was playing for them.
The fact he was at the club or not isn't the issue. It's that he turned his back on his national side, yet the Liverpool fans were able to make the distinction of club and country.
Are you really oblivious to the major differences between what Hargreaves did, and what you quote Carragher saying above?
- Scott
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 10:56 AM
I agree they are different situations but essentially the same outcome....both walked away from their country at time they were needed. Carragher walking away because he was rejected by the 1st team, Hargreaves walking away because he was rejected at U-17. Anyway, I am not trying to justify what Hargreaves or Carragher did, I am simply giving an example of where club fans looked past the national team to support their player.
I realize Carragher had played for England, I realize He was already at Liverpool. However, all I am demonstarting in a general context is that national team issues should not be crossed over to club support, and never is it acceptable to boo a player from your team because of the national team.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 10:57 AM
i mean, despite the fact that england and canada are so wildly different in terms of football supporters' psychology (club vs. country is actually a viable discussion there, whereas here the only valid point of view is club AND country), you're trying to say that a guy who whored his way around 3 different federations looking for the best deal is equivalent to a guy saying "i've already committed to my country and put in time, and if i can't actually play, then don't bother."
Azerban
06-27-2011, 10:59 AM
I agree they are different situations but essentially the same outcome.
tell people in sri lanka that a raincloud is the same as a tsunami, because both make the ground wet
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 11:10 AM
i mean, despite the fact that england and canada are so wildly different in terms of football supporters' psychology (club vs. country is actually a viable discussion there, whereas here the only valid point of view is club AND country), you're trying to say that a guy who whored his way around 3 different federations looking for the best deal is equivalent to a guy saying "i've already committed to my country and put in time, and if i can't actually play, then don't bother."
That's what it comes done to....the belief that Toronto FC is somehow connected at the hip to the CSA. That while in England the FA oversees the league and the national team, in Canada MSL is an entirely separate entity from the CSA. Toronto FC (and I guess Vancouver now although I don't know what their supporters believe) is still seen as the cultivator of Canadian talent even though they have as much to do with the CSA as any other business.
That in turn translates into anyone who goes against the CSA is not welcome on Toronto FC, which I happen to believe is wrong. I can't fault people for feeling that way, it's how it is here. I am a club > country person. If someone is willing to bleed for TFC for 90 mins then I will support that person until the end, regardless of their CSA involvement.
ExiledRed
06-27-2011, 11:21 AM
a) The liverpool fans typically do not care about the EMNT. Other clubs supporters may have had a problem with it...I dunno.
http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/news/euro-red-diary/im/red-diary-21-4.jpg
b) Azerban. "The only valid point of view is...."
?
Tsk tsk...... you know better than that....you are a free canadian after all.
But yeah, as a liverpool supporter its kind of odd watching you all get bent out of shape.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 11:26 AM
That's what it comes done to....the belief that Toronto FC is somehow connected at the hip to the CSA.
It's better, and more accurate, than your belief that the CSA and Canada aren't.
And like I said, club vs. country is a stupid debate to be having in Canada, since their fates are so intricately linked, but I still can't believe a persons national pride can be completely destroyed by four and a half years of shit football brought to you by a MLSE Sports Entertainment Property.
...
That's what the whole debate really comes down to. Pride. Looking at a guy with 2 Champions League and 5 first-rate European league medals, who very well could do a job for us if the duct tape held, and saying "Fuck you. You shit on us? We shit on you. Fuck off to Qatar for your pay day, and don't taint our shirt."
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 11:27 AM
That's what it comes done to....the belief that Toronto FC is somehow connected at the hip to the CSA. That while in England the FA oversees the league and the national team, in Canada MSL is an entirely separate entity from the CSA. Toronto FC (and I guess Vancouver now although I don't know what their supporters believe) is still seen as the cultivator of Canadian talent even though they have as much to do with the CSA as any other business.
That in turn translates into anyone who goes against the CSA is not welcome on Toronto FC, which I happen to believe is wrong. I can't fault people for feeling that way, it's how it is here. I am a club > country person. If someone is willing to bleed for TFC for 90 mins then I will support that person until the end, regardless of their CSA involvement.
Pick one. You say you don't care where players come from as long as it makes the club better but then you try and defend Hargreaves acts through comparison. If you don't care you don't care. That's as convinced as I'll get there's no point in discussing the national side of what this move would mean.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 11:31 AM
Tsk tsk...... you know better than that....you are a free canadian after all.
i would never take away someones right to have a dumb and bad opinion
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 11:33 AM
Pick one. You say you don't care where players come from as long as it makes the club better but then you try and defend Hargreaves acts through comparison. If you don't care you don't care. That's as convinced as I'll get there's no point in discussing the national side of what this move would mean.
I am not defending his acts and am pretty sure at no point I did defend him. I am defending TFC in saying that I will not boo a TFC player. I guess I am also speaking out against the notion that TFC is somehow tied to the CSA and the national team. Just because we are a Canadian team developing players for a Canadian does not mean we should put the CSA's interests ahead of TFC.
Heathen
06-27-2011, 11:37 AM
I am not defending his acts and am pretty sure at no point I did defend him. I am defending TFC in saying that I will not boo a TFC player. I guess I am also speaking out against the notion that TFC is somehow tied to the CSA and the national team. Just because we are a Canadian team developing players for a Canadian does not mean we should put the CSA's interests ahead of TFC.
TFC wouldn't exist if the CSA hadn't sanctioned a team playing in another countries league which is what the MLS is. I don't understand how signing Hargreaves would be putting the CSA ahead of TFC's interests, if you care so much about TFC you should realize what serious trouble this would cause and want to avoid it at all costs. If he plays for us it won't be pretty.
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 11:39 AM
It's better, and more accurate, than your belief that the CSA and Canada aren't.
And like I said, club vs. country is a stupid debate to be having in Canada, since their fates are so intricately linked, but I still can't believe a persons national pride can be completely destroyed by four and a half years of shit football brought to you by a MLSE Sports Entertainment Property.
...
That's what the whole debate really comes down to. Pride. Looking at a guy with 2 Champions League and 5 first-rate European league medals, who very well could do a job for us if the duct tape held, and saying "Fuck you. You shit on us? We shit on you. Fuck off to Qatar for your pay day, and don't taint our shirt."
Yet not even half as intricately linked as they are in other countries where the country's football assocation oversees the national side and the league. Using the UK as en example, I have never seen a player forced away from a club for shunning their national team, nor have I seen a teams supporters boo their own player for shunning their national side. I suppose you are saying they are linked here because while the league and CSA are separate entities, our team within the separate entity is Canadian? In that case, we should just do whatever the CSA tells us and call our team CSA Feeder FC. Makes sense :rolleyes:.
RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
06-27-2011, 11:42 AM
Tomasz Radzinski
is there a difference with him?
If he had played for TFC...it would of been ok.....cause his situation benefited CANADA not Poland
in the end was RADZ a traitor?
Do we only open our arms to traitors..if it there not traitors against CANADA?
im comfused ...lol
Super
06-27-2011, 11:43 AM
I'd very happily take on Hargreaves if I felt he was right for our club, but at this point I don't think we need yet another defensive midfielder - and certainly one who has struggled so much with injuries. The whole issue of him playing for England over Canada is really not important to me when it comes to TFC. If he's able to come to our club and make it better, then fuck, it's all good with me. Not happy with his decision to play for England, but knowing the incompetence of the CSA I'm honestly not really sure I can blame him, or anyone else, for not playing for Canada.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 11:55 AM
Tomasz Radzinski
is there a difference with him?
yes a huge, obvious one, see if you can find it (hint: it's not because he simply played for us)
Azerban
06-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Using the UK as en example,
stop this
it doesn't make sense to do it, and you persist in it
RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
06-27-2011, 11:58 AM
yes a huge, obvious one, see if you can find it (hint: it's not because he simply played for us)
Not sure...please tell....
Only reason i brought this up ....is because of the OH hate on! ;)
Tomasz Radzinski
is there a difference with him?
If he had played for TFC...it would of been ok.....cause his situation benefited CANADA not Poland
in the end was RADZ a traitor?
Do we only open our arms to traitors..if it there not traitors against CANADA?
im comfused ...lol
not sure but when you see the cunt, ask him how Fulham was :D
Heathen
06-27-2011, 12:02 PM
Tomasz Radzinski
is there a difference with him?
If he had played for TFC...it would of been ok.....cause his situation benefited CANADA not Poland
in the end was RADZ a traitor?
Do we only open our arms to traitors..if it there not traitors against CANADA?
im comfused ...lol
[Sigh] yes you are confused, Radzinski had not as far as I know ever played for Polish youth teams. I'm pretty sure he didn't emigrate here with his family to further his soccer career and he played for Canada after becoming a Canadian citizen having lived here for the qualifying period.
I can't think of any Canadian international who has a situation that mirrors Hargreaves. You can only really be a traitor if you chose Canada over another team, I can't think of any recent CMNT players born and/or brought up elsewhere who would have realistically made it into the other countries team.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 12:03 PM
Not sure...please tell....
Only reason i brought this up ....is because of the OH hate on! ;)
if he was slumming it in the CSL, capping for Poland probably wasn't an option for him ;)
RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
06-27-2011, 12:10 PM
if he was slumming it in the CSL, capping for Poland probably wasn't an option for him ;)
Slumming it in the csl....turned out not a bad option after all..
hit on with some good clubs in his career....
always was a supporter of RADZ....
now lets put this tread back on track...:)
Borjan a Serbian traitor?
Johnson an American traitor?
Al Shaibani an Algerian traitor?
Klukowski a Polish traitor?
Jackson a Jamaican traitor?
Gerba a Cameroonian traitor?
I don't know where I'm going with this really.
Derko
06-27-2011, 12:13 PM
Blah!Blah!Blah! get over the Hargreaves hate for fucks sake. He has glass legs and therefore should not even be considered!!
RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
06-27-2011, 12:14 PM
Borjan a Serbian traitor?
Johnson an American traitor?
Al Shaibani an Algerian traitor?
Klukowski a Polish traitor?
Jackson a Jamaican traitor?
Gerba a Cameroonian traitor?
I don't know where I'm going with this really.
Johnson?
Born in Toronto
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 12:19 PM
I am not defending his acts and am pretty sure at no point I did defend him. I am defending TFC in saying that I will not boo a TFC player. I guess I am also speaking out against the notion that TFC is somehow tied to the CSA and the national team. Just because we are a Canadian team developing players for a Canadian does not mean we should put the CSA's interests ahead of TFC.
And I never said I would boo a TFC player. I would do everything I can to make sure that traitor never gets here. I didn't boo him on the tv when he played for United.
And anyone who would fight for him to be on this team needs to catch up with world football.
Azerban
06-27-2011, 12:22 PM
Borjan a Serbian traitor?
Johnson an American traitor?
Al Shaibani an Algerian traitor?
Klukowski a Polish traitor?
Jackson a Jamaican traitor?
Gerba a Cameroonian traitor?
I don't know where I'm going with this really.
agreed, due to an excellent immigration policy and having a great reputation internationally as a country with an excellent standard of living and respect for human rights, the canadian mens team has benefited from access to players who, when either they can't play for the team of their birth due to a lack of skill, or out of thanks for taking them in at an incredibly young age, decide to play for their adoptive country as a way of saying thanks
great post
dunno what it has to do with hargreaves though
bgnewf
06-27-2011, 12:24 PM
With this particular case the fact that he is considered a traitor to many fans is moot.
Great player without a doubt but he simply is too risky. He would be a defensive midfield DP, of which we already have one who is brittle and who would be forced to play many games on FieldTurf in a physical league.
This is, with sue respect, a silly argument
Johnson?
Born in Toronto
He's little different than Bunbury outside of the father connection. Childhood in England and teenage years in USA.
Actually I suppose he's a bit more different than Bunbury, he likes actually playing international football. :hump:
My point with him was that he lives in USA, plays for an American club and qualified for their program.
TFCRegina
06-27-2011, 12:35 PM
He's little different than Bunbury outside of the father connection. Childhood in England and teenage years in USA.
Actually I suppose he's a bit more different than Bunbury, he likes actually playing international football. :hump:
My point with him was that he lives in USA, plays for an American club and qualified for their program.
And featured for the Canadian youth and senior team and didn't dink around in the American program before switching it up. And didn't blame the USSF for not playing for the US.
Not sure where you're going with this.
Roogsy
06-27-2011, 12:36 PM
I love women.
Not sure where I'm going with this.
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 12:39 PM
I know.
Right in here
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25557
:D:canada::D
At least we now know where I was going. Nowhere.
Thanks for helping me find my way.
I think there was a point I originally wanted to get at when I made that list, but that's long lost. Oh well. Downside of being a TFC supporter, short term memory!
ExiledRed
06-27-2011, 12:44 PM
i would never take away someones right to have a dumb and bad opinion
attaboy
Roogsy
06-27-2011, 12:46 PM
I know.
Right in here
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25557
:D:canada::D
If someone could point me to the German women's calendar, I would be much obliged. :D
Whoop
06-27-2011, 12:48 PM
I don't want Hargreaves regardless of what happened with Canada.
And as to those who point out those other players like a Radzinski et al as far as I know they didn't dick around with other national FAs playing one off the other trying to get a better deal.
So there is a difference.
Shakes McQueen
06-27-2011, 01:30 PM
And featured for the Canadian youth and senior team and didn't dink around in the American program before switching it up. And didn't blame the USSF for not playing for the US.
Not sure where you're going with this.
Peopel don't seem to get that the dislike for Hargreaves has to do with the circumstances of his specific situation, it isn't just a blanket declaration of "derp, anyone who sets foot in Canada must play here or dey iz a TRAYTOR!!!"
- Scott
I don't want Hargreaves regardless of what happened with Canada.
And as to those who point out those other players like a Radzinski et al as far as I know they didn't dick around with other national FAs playing one off the other trying to get a better deal.
So there is a difference.
Yup. Radz is more like JDG2 in that regards. Decided to declare for the country he is playing in, not the one he is from.:hide:
werewolf
06-27-2011, 01:42 PM
I have to say I wonder how many of those who defend Hargreaves would be quite so vehement if it wasn't England and Man Utd he'd played for
I have noticed this as well...
Whoop
06-27-2011, 01:43 PM
But was Poland chasing him? And did he dick around the Polish FA?
Did JDG2 dick around the CSA (honest question, I don't know).
Anyway, my last comment on this debate - whenever these debates come up (and I've been following them in one way or another since the 90's) there is always some reason when the choice benefits Canada that it is okay, but when it doesn't it's criminal.
I'm okay with that, it's part of being a supporter and nothing dictates that we have to be logical.
Heathen
06-27-2011, 01:54 PM
Yup. Radz is more like JDG2 in that regards. Decided to declare for the country he is playing in, not the one he is from.:hide:
Playing in, living in since age 13 and citizen of, that is why I personally have no ill will towards JDG2. I wish he had chosen Canada (and still hope he will) but I understand and accept why he chose the Dutch
Fort York Redcoat
06-27-2011, 01:57 PM
Did JDG2 dick around the CSA (honest question, I don't know).
Anyway, my last comment on this debate - whenever these debates come up (and I've been following them in one way or another since the 90's) there is always some reason when the choice benefits Canada that it is okay, but when it doesn't it's criminal.
I'm okay with that, it's part of being a supporter and nothing dictates that we have to be logical.
:drinking:a beer for brad. No, really. Look for me Wed. pre/post match at Joe's.
TFCin110
06-27-2011, 02:57 PM
Playing in, living in since age 13 and citizen of, that is why I personally have no ill will towards JDG2. I wish he had chosen Canada (and still hope he will) but I understand and accept why he chose the Dutch
Hargreaves went to Europe at 16. Again, not defending him but just saying.
kaos197O
06-27-2011, 03:23 PM
If someone could point me to the German women's calendar, I would be much obliged. :D
Why stop at a calendar? How's about getting a copy of this!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/5818138402_242d6aa249_b.jpg
And on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKWdlxYfr9A
Don Julio
06-27-2011, 04:09 PM
http://www.iheartnsfw.com/post/6831043429/heres-the-rest-of-the-photos-from-the-german-womens
not sure if its a good thing having those pics on here kids do look at this site.. not that i didn't like them.:hump::hump::hump::hump:
Hey kids ... don't click on those links.
I'm sure that worked.
Beach_Red
06-27-2011, 05:07 PM
Everyone deserves some kind of reward for reading this far into this thread...
Gazza
06-27-2011, 05:10 PM
If you're opposed to Hargreaves playing for TFC for any other reason than injury concerns, then you probably deserve the shite team you see before you week in and week out.
As someone stated earlier, what Amado Guevera did against Canada in world cup qualifying was way worse than anything Hargreaves did. I should know, i had the pleasure of being at that rainy game in Montreal. I thought for sure Guevara would be booed off the pitch the next game back, but no, he got quite the hero's welcome from the TFC faithful.
Hey kids ... don't click on those links.
I'm sure that worked.
lolthat even made me wanna go look again..lol
nfitz
06-27-2011, 09:01 PM
Blah!Blah!Blah! get over the Hargreaves hate for fucks sake. He has glass legs and therefore should not even be considered!!There's been no indication he ever was. Given Paul Beirne's sarcastic comments on the subject, there's nothing happening. Why do people keep discussing the topic as if it's serious, rather than some fantasy? It's not like anyone else ever takes the Mail seriously ...
Derko
06-28-2011, 05:59 AM
There's been no indication he ever was. Given Paul Beirne's sarcastic comments on the subject, there's nothing happening. Why do people keep discussing the topic as if it's serious, rather than some fantasy? It's not like anyone else ever takes the Mail seriously ...
That was my point also.
Fort York Redcoat
06-28-2011, 07:25 AM
If you're opposed to Hargreaves playing for TFC for any other reason than injury concerns, then you probably deserve the shite team you see before you week in and week out.
As someone stated earlier, what Amado Guevera did against Canada in world cup qualifying was way worse than anything Hargreaves did. I should know, i had the pleasure of being at that rainy game in Montreal. I thought for sure Guevara would be booed off the pitch the next game back, but no, he got quite the hero's welcome from the TFC faithful.
No I believe Guevara had an exceptional game after that debacle where he dove for his country. I certainly was not rewarding his efforts against Canada.
gmacpheetfc
07-04-2011, 11:00 PM
he signing or what
Yagbod
07-04-2011, 11:16 PM
Yup, for sure. Special 4th DP. Gonna tear this league up!!!
Auzzy
07-04-2011, 11:48 PM
I heard he's signing with Pyrex. That should definitely help him.
TFCRegina
07-05-2011, 12:14 AM
Yup, for sure. Special 4th DP. Gonna tear his ACL up!!!
Fixed for accuracy
Pachuco
07-05-2011, 12:20 AM
His chances of signing with TFC just got better. If he'll take anything other then DP wages, we can have a 5th DM in case all the other 4 DMs get hurt. We could go for some kinda record for money spent on DMs.
TFCRegina
07-05-2011, 12:42 AM
His chances of signing with TFC just got better. If he'll take anything other then DP wages, we can have a 5th DM in case all the other 4 DMs get hurt. We could go for some kinda record for money spent on DMs.
Jeez, that would remind me of Mo Jo circa 2009...
Azerban
07-05-2011, 06:54 AM
OH has been in rehab/training and posting the results to youtube; http://www.youtube.com/user/owenhargreavescb
All the clips are so short because he can only go until his bones explode.
OH has been in rehab/training and posting the results to youtube; http://www.youtube.com/user/owenhargreavescb
All the clips are so short because he can only go until his bones explode.
If he can do this - he can last the full 90
7jtCnhqTjEo
Azerban
07-06-2011, 09:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fipEh7iF6RY
sashavukelich
07-06-2011, 04:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fipEh7iF6RY
EASILY one of the funniest video's i've ever youtubed.
RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
08-30-2011, 04:54 PM
CITY signs Hargreaves....
The former Manchester United midfielder successfully completed a medical today and penned a contract at the Etihad Stadium.
TorontoPat
08-30-2011, 05:48 PM
I don't know the situation that caused Hargreaves to play for England. Reading this thread leads me to believe he turned his back on our national team, albeit for a much better team. This guy at work claims he Hargreaves couldn't get a tryout with the Canadian team. Mind you this same guy also claims there are many players in the GTA that could play at the Academy but can't because their parents can't pay the high fees. He claims the spots are all taken by rich kids and not the best kids. Is the guy from my work just full of it?
2mil4dero+santo
08-30-2011, 05:54 PM
I don't know the situation that caused Hargreaves to play for England. Reading this thread leads me to believe he turned his back on our national team, albeit for a much better team. This guy at work claims he Hargreaves couldn't get a tryout with the Canadian team. Mind you this same guy also claims there are many players in the GTA that could play at the Academy but can't because their parents can't pay the high fees. He claims the spots are all taken by rich kids and not the best kids. Is the guy from my work just full of it?
Why don't u do some research and decide 4 urself? Hargreaves did tryout with Canada in his teen years, he wouldn't be able to try out now because he's an England international.
ArmenJBX
08-30-2011, 05:55 PM
I don't know the situation that caused Hargreaves to play for England. Reading this thread leads me to believe he turned his back on our national team, albeit for a much better team. This guy at work claims he Hargreaves couldn't get a tryout with the Canadian team. Mind you this same guy also claims there are many players in the GTA that could play at the Academy but can't because their parents can't pay the high fees. He claims the spots are all taken by rich kids and not the best kids. Is the guy from my work just full of it?
If that's the case Toronto FC is clearly delusional.
Some of the greatest players in the world came from poorer homes.
Soccer is not hockey, it's everyone's game, not just those who can afford it.
Shakes McQueen
08-30-2011, 06:09 PM
If that's the case Toronto FC is clearly delusional.
Some of the greatest players in the world came from poorer homes.
Soccer is not hockey, it's everyone's game, not just those who can afford it.
I suggest looking into the validity of "some guy at work's" claims, before reaching a conclusion.
- Scott
Couchy81
08-30-2011, 06:16 PM
If the Academy doesn't work like schools do with scholarships - free training for poor but highly talented individuals... We're FUCKED.
Greatest Ripoff
08-30-2011, 06:51 PM
If that's the case Toronto FC is clearly delusional.
Some of the greatest players in the world came from poorer homes.
Soccer is not hockey, it's everyone's game, not just those who can afford it.
If the Academy doesn't work like schools do with scholarships - free training for poor but highly talented individuals... We're FUCKED.
:facepalm:
TorontoPat
08-30-2011, 06:54 PM
Why don't u do some research and decide 4 urself? Hargreaves did tryout with Canada in his teen years, he wouldn't be able to try out now because he's an England international.
I see he did tryout for Canada when he was 16, he didn't make it though (We must have been good):) . Can't find if it was the Men's team or one of the under such and such an age team. Anyway he left for Germany shortly after. Sort of reminds me of the current Fraser Aird story. Can't find anything on what it costs to go to the Academy, if anything.
Edit to add: If selected to elite squad the training is free. If selected to premier squad there are costs. I found some camp costs are 250 for 2 days and 450 for 5 days. Maybe he meant just getting to go to the academy could be costly. Maybe something like the opportunity to get discovered is tough.
BeachTory
08-30-2011, 07:11 PM
Jeez even the web site shows the academy has low almost no costs for the chosen few. This is not the leadbetter school or botelerri (sp?) school
Clearly here is lots of education to be done
TorontoPat
08-30-2011, 07:14 PM
Jeez even the web site shows the academy has low almost no costs for the chosen few. This is not the leadbetter school or botelerri (sp?) school
Clearly here is lots of education to be done
I guess here is
ArmenJBX
08-30-2011, 07:34 PM
I suggest looking into the validity of "some guy at work's" claims, before reaching a conclusion.
- Scott
Key word is "if", which I don't believe really, but IF that's the case, then that's not a smart way of running an academy.
TFCRegina
08-30-2011, 07:40 PM
I don't know the situation that caused Hargreaves to play for England. Reading this thread leads me to believe he turned his back on our national team, albeit for a much better team. This guy at work claims he Hargreaves couldn't get a tryout with the Canadian team. Mind you this same guy also claims there are many players in the GTA that could play at the Academy but can't because their parents can't pay the high fees. He claims the spots are all taken by rich kids and not the best kids. Is the guy from my work just full of it?
Bullshit.
That's Hargreaves apologists at work again.
He had a tryout, didn't make the cut. Once.
ONE tryout.
He refused every call up he ever received after that. The national team begged him at multiple non U-17 levels (the team he was cut from) and he turned them down.
If he was incapable of handling one rejection, then there's a serious character issue that would have kept him from succeeding for England.
More likely he's a lying douchebag and used whatever excuse he could to justify his choice of England over Canada.
In which case, he's a liar and a douche and it's still a character issue but a different type of character issue.
Hargreaves = Flawed Character
Shakes McQueen
08-30-2011, 07:44 PM
I see he did tryout for Canada when he was 16, he didn't make it though (We must have been good):) . Can't find if it was the Men's team or one of the under such and such an age team. Anyway he left for Germany shortly after. Sort of reminds me of the current Fraser Aird story. Can't find anything on what it costs to go to the Academy, if anything.
Edit to add: If selected to elite squad the training is free. If selected to premier squad there are costs. I found some camp costs are 250 for 2 days and 450 for 5 days. Maybe he meant just getting to go to the academy could be costly. Maybe something like the opportunity to get discovered is tough.
I'm going to guess that the "elite squad" is the one they invite you to, for serious prospects, and the "premier squad" is more of a "hey, want your talented kid to get some real training for a week??" camp-style deals.
- Scott
Brooker
08-31-2011, 04:28 AM
CITY signs Hargreaves....
The former Manchester United midfielder successfully completed a medical today and penned a contract at the Etihad Stadium.
:confused:
Shakes McQueen
08-31-2011, 04:53 AM
Man City have more money than sense. I welcome a new challenger to upset the established order in the EPL, but not just because some oil-rich sheikh comes in and starts pillaging other good teams by writing ridiculously large cheques, or signing big name has-beens like Hargreaves.
- Scott
London
08-31-2011, 05:28 AM
ok can we now ban his name from the boards, enough of this guy already,
have fun playing 2 games and getting hurt again
prizby
08-31-2011, 12:13 PM
duane rollins must be twisting his hair in anger
John Stamos
08-31-2011, 12:26 PM
I totally agree with you guys. He should of stayed in Canada, instead of moving on with his career and being named Englands player of the tournament in the 2006 world cup.
Jesus, what was Hargreaves thinking?!
PopePouri
08-31-2011, 01:00 PM
Youtube resurrected his career. :p
Ben - D.O.W.
08-31-2011, 01:00 PM
Sarcasm aside, given that choice (Englands player of the tournament in the 2006 World Cup vs playing for Canada) there are a number of people on this board that would have chosen differently even knowing the results, myself included.
Fort York Redcoat
08-31-2011, 01:15 PM
Jesus, what was Hargreaves thinking?!
Not of a Canadian legacy.
Greatest Ripoff
08-31-2011, 01:49 PM
I totally agree with you guys. He should of stayed in Canada, instead of moving on with his career and being named Englands player of the tournament in the 2006 world cup.
Jesus, what was Hargreaves thinking?!
He didn't need to stay in Canada to play internationally for the nation of his birth. He didn't even need to stay in Canada when he was going to play internationally for Wales. How much can international football really mean to someone who was switching his allegiance so often? I am sure if he would have be asked to get his german citizenship to join the german national team he would have.
lerxst
08-31-2011, 01:52 PM
everybody hates a canadian that left to do what was best for him.
really, would you play for the CSA???? cmon, give your head a shake.
No but I'd play for my country. No questions asked. Piss on him.
__wowza
08-31-2011, 02:57 PM
everybody hates a canadian that left to do what was best for him.
really, would you play for the CSA???? cmon, give your head a shake.
that's right. everyone leave and do whats best for themselves. if you can play for the greeks, scottish or english, go for it. dont make first team? not a dressed sub? its cool, you can always fall back on us, we'll take whatever runoffs we can get. :facepalm:
Oldtimer
08-31-2011, 03:06 PM
I can't believe some of the posts here. :picard:
TFC Academy has always been free to the chosen players.
BTW, that's a league-mandated requirement of all MLS academies.
Canary10
08-31-2011, 03:39 PM
All I can say is people who are mad at Hargreaves for not playing for Canada should take a serious look at the CSA. I wouldn't blame ANYONE for not playing for Canada with the shit national association we have.
TFCRegina
08-31-2011, 03:56 PM
I totally agree with you guys. He should of stayed in Canada, instead of moving on with his career and being named Englands player of the tournament in the 2006 world cup.
Jesus, what was Hargreaves thinking?!
He was already in Europe when the choice between Canada and England came up. FALSE ARGUMENT. He could have played for Canada and had a club career. Why are people so thick skulled that they can't understand that?
Second statement: National team does not equal Club Team, FALSE ARGUMENT.
Third statement: Great, he was player of the tournament for a country that he's not from in a tournament that his team didn't perform well in.
Shakes McQueen
08-31-2011, 05:56 PM
I totally agree with you guys. He should of stayed in Canada, instead of moving on with his career and being named Englands player of the tournament in the 2006 world cup.
Jesus, what was Hargreaves thinking?!
Your posts about Hargreaves are always filled to the brim with such stunning ignorance.
No one has suggested he should have stayed in Canada - playing in Canada isn't a requirement of playing for Canada.
International soccer isn't supposed to be about reaping as much personal glory as you can for yourself, at the expense of everything else. It's supposed to be about the pride of playing for "your" country.
So yeah, he won player of the tournament for England in the 2006 World Cup. Good for him.
- Scott
Shakes McQueen
08-31-2011, 06:01 PM
All I can say is people who are mad at Hargreaves for not playing for Canada should take a serious look at the CSA. I wouldn't blame ANYONE for not playing for Canada with the shit national association we have.
This is a terrible argument, as well.
The CSA is never going to get any better, so long as our best players can't be bothered to dedicate themselves to Canada, and fight to MAKE things better.
Guys like DeRo and JDG clearly aren't happy with the CSA either, but they do everything in their power to put pressure on the suits, and speak out about the problems they see.
I've got more respect for someone who cares enough about Canada to do that, versus dumping us when a more attractive offer comes along.
- Scott
whyalwaysme11
08-31-2011, 06:52 PM
in other news lol
jonathan de guzeman went to villarreal
that back stabbing loser
doesnt deserve to play with rossi
Greatest Ripoff
08-31-2011, 06:56 PM
All I can say is people who are mad at Hargreaves for not playing for Canada should take a serious look at the CSA. I wouldn't blame ANYONE for not playing for Canada with the shit national association we have.
Yeah because playing for a federation like Bosnia that was recently suspended by FIFA is a much better option than playing for Canada.
Your argument is a joke. Some people are just cretens.
bertal
08-31-2011, 08:25 PM
man city. WOW
/endthread
Heathen
08-31-2011, 10:10 PM
... Some people are just cretens.
http://www.enjoytherandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Morans.jpg
in other news lol
jonathan de guzeman went to villarreal
that back stabbing loser
doesnt deserve to play with rossi
Wait a minute - JDG2 stabbed Canada in the back but doesn't deserve to play with Rossi who stabbed the US in the back? I don't follow your logic...
Greatest Ripoff
09-01-2011, 07:19 AM
http://www.enjoytherandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Morans.jpg
wow - a spelling mistake on a message board. Glad you had something worthwhile to add.
Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2011, 08:40 AM
^Yes please keep it civil when talking about each other people.
When you're talking about Hargreaves I don't care. Let's stay on topic, though.
Macksam
09-01-2011, 09:02 AM
Now that multiple people have made him look like an idiot, I doubt we'll see John Stamos again in this thread any time soon.
Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2011, 09:07 AM
Hold on Macksam. As much as I disagree with his delivery he and everyone else is entitled to an opinion here.
T-boy
09-01-2011, 09:13 AM
In the end of the day, we're arguing over a guy who had one career high, and spent the rest of it injured. Do we really want a player who's going to spend most of his international career injured playing for Canada?! Canada would have got 1 or 2 years worth of career out of him, that would have been one tournament qualification. I don't think we've missed out much, have we?! Now quit your arguing, the guy is made of Balsa wood! :p
Oblio2
09-01-2011, 09:19 AM
In the end of the day, we're arguing over a guy who had one career high, and spent the rest of it injured. Do we really want a player who's going to spend most of his international career injured playing for Canada?! Canada would have got 1 or 2 years worth of career out of him, that would have been one tournament qualification. I don't think we've missed out much, have we?! Now quit your arguing, the guy is made of Balsa wood! :p
Honours
Club
Bayern Munich
Bundesliga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga) (4): 200001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2000%E2%80%9301), 200203 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2002%E2%80%9303), 200405 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2004%E2%80%9305), 200506 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2005%E2%80%9306)
DFB-Pokal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal) (3): 200203 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal_2002%E2%80%9303), 200405 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal_2004%E2%80%9305), 200506 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal_2005%E2%80%9306)
DFB-Ligapokal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Ligapokal) (1): 2004
UEFA Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League) (1): 200001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_UEFA_Champions_League_Final)
Intercontinental Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup_(football)) (1): 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Intercontinental_Cup)
Manchester United
Premier League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League) (1): 200708 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_2007%E2%80%9308)
UEFA Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League) (1): 200708 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_UEFA_Champions_League_Final)
Individual
Bravo Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Award): 2001
England Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_Player_of_the_Year): 2006
T-boy
09-01-2011, 09:22 AM
Did you not see the :p ????
__wowza
09-01-2011, 09:44 AM
i heard he tore his ACL taking this photo.
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/OH.jpg
__wowza
09-01-2011, 09:52 AM
also, our current facepalm count is: 12
:facepalm:
Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2011, 09:54 AM
Please stop contributing to the fp count. You use better words than the icon expresses...
Hargreaves deserves more specific derision.
Heathen
09-01-2011, 11:23 AM
wow - a spelling mistake on a message board. Glad you had something worthwhile to add.
lighten up man, life's too short
TFCRegina
09-01-2011, 12:41 PM
Honours
Club
Bayern Munich
Bundesliga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga) (4): 2000–01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2000%E2%80%9301), 2002–03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2002%E2%80%9303), 2004–05 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2004%E2%80%9305), 2005–06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga_2005%E2%80%9306)
DFB-Pokal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal) (3): 2002–03 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal_2002%E2%80%9303), 2004–05 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal_2004%E2%80%9305), 2005–06 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Pokal_2005%E2%80%9306)
DFB-Ligapokal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DFB-Ligapokal) (1): 2004
UEFA Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League) (1): 2000–01 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_UEFA_Champions_League_Final)
Intercontinental Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup_(football)) (1): 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Intercontinental_Cup)
Manchester United
Premier League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League) (1): 2007–08 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League_2007%E2%80%9308)
UEFA Champions League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League) (1): 2007–08 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_UEFA_Champions_League_Final)
Individual
Bravo Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Award): 2001
England Player of the Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_Player_of_the_Year): 2006
Mister Glass Award of 2009-2011
Mr. Bigby
09-01-2011, 01:19 PM
wow - a spelling mistake on a message board. Glad you had something worthwhile to add.
Um, Just to clarify, I believe that he was referring to your spelling of the word Cretin(s)
noun
1.a person suffering from cretinism (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/browse/cretinism).
2. a stupid, obtuse, or mentally defective person.
Just sayin'....:D
Dirty Negsy
09-01-2011, 01:39 PM
All I can say is people who are mad at Hargreaves for not playing for Canada should take a serious look at the CSA. I wouldn't blame ANYONE for not playing for Canada with the shit national association we have.
Canary10 is right, why would anybody with a choice play for Canada?
kodiakTFC
09-01-2011, 01:40 PM
i heard he tore his ACL taking this photo.
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/OH.jpg
Thank you, I really needed a good laugh today mate.
Ben - D.O.W.
09-01-2011, 01:40 PM
All I can say is people who are mad at Hargreaves for not playing for Canada should take a serious look at the CSA. I wouldn't blame ANYONE for not playing for Canada with the shit national association we have.
Canary10 is right, why would anybody with a choice play for Canada?
Why would any Canadian not play for Canada? You can think of it as playing for the CSA or you can think of it as playing for and representing your country. And if you don't get that no internet forum is going to change that.
TorontoPat
09-01-2011, 01:51 PM
Canary10 is right, why would anybody with a choice play for Canada?
He did try and play for Canada and didn't make it. So he moved on.
Technorgasm
09-01-2011, 02:04 PM
Il cheer for anyoen who puts on the TFC kit, even G. Neville.
but hargreaves is not a good investment. . . maybe for deeppockets, slender snce city . . why is this thread even here? There were injury concersn on the blue city of Manchester as Owen tripped and fell out of the transfer window.
can we start a JUNIOR HOILETT to TFC thread?
at least THAT makes sense.
Belfast_Boy
09-01-2011, 02:17 PM
i heard he tore his ACL taking this photo.
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/OH.jpg
no, it was his uterus
Canary10
09-01-2011, 02:18 PM
Il cheer for anyoen who puts on the TFC kit, even G. Neville.
but hargreaves is not a good investment. . . maybe for deeppockets, slender snce city . . why is this thread even here? There were injury concersn on the blue city of Manchester as Owen tripped and fell out of the transfer window.
can we start a JUNIOR HOILETT to TFC thread?
at least THAT makes sense.
Uh, Junior Hoilett doesn't look like he's playing for Canada either. Why would we want him at TFC?
DichioTFC
09-01-2011, 03:27 PM
who does RPB love to hate more, JDG or Owen Hargreaves
Gazza
09-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Il cheer for anyoen who puts on the TFC kit, even G. Neville.
but hargreaves is not a good investment. . . maybe for deeppockets, slender snce city . . why is this thread even here? There were injury concersn on the blue city of Manchester as Owen tripped and fell out of the transfer window.
can we start a JUNIOR HOILETT to TFC thread?
at least THAT makes sense.
Well said. As a United fan, i really hope he doesn't stay healthy. If i was a City fan, i wouldn't bank on it. Definitely wouldn't want TFC taking that risk. Especially since we have Frings.
As for Hoilett, let's work on getting him on Canada first!
Canary10
09-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Well said. As a United fan, i really hope he doesn't stay healthy. If i was a City fan, i wouldn't bank on it. Definitely wouldn't want TFC taking that risk. Especially since we have Frings.
As for Hoilett, let's work on getting him on Canada first!
What's the status of this, and why haven't we read anything in the media about it in the lead-up to tomorrow's game? That would be one of my first questions to Hart.
Gazza
09-01-2011, 03:41 PM
What's the status of this, and why haven't we read anything in the media about it in the lead-up to tomorrow's game? That would be one of my first questions to Hart.
I don't have the link, but i remember around the Gold Cup Stephen Hart said he wouldn't be available for the first round of World Cup Qualifying.
Love the post on twitter about someone spray painting TRAITOR on his car today.
lerxst
09-01-2011, 03:52 PM
All I can say is people who are mad at Hargreaves for not playing for Canada should take a serious look at the CSA. I wouldn't blame ANYONE for not playing for Canada with the shit national association we have.
Then you'd be an idiot. Don't play for the effing CSA...play for Canada. Christ. Why is that such a hard concept to understand?
DichioTFC
09-01-2011, 04:00 PM
^ Exactly. Blaming the CSA is a cop-out.
Canary10
09-01-2011, 04:04 PM
Then you'd be an idiot. Don't play for the effing CSA...play for Canada. Christ. Why is that such a hard concept to understand?
That really hurts when you call me names. We're talking about guys who have roots and have grown up in 2, 3, 4 countries. Why shouldn't they choose which one? And what is CSA doing to entice them to play here? Betcha Hoilett doesn't....
Canary10
09-01-2011, 04:07 PM
Fucking Begovic sat on the bench in a Canadian men's game that would have cap-tied him to Canada and he was never played. That's how fucked up CSA is.
Canary10
09-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Actually, twice...
FIFA's change to cap ties in the early to mid 2000's allowing players that represented their countries at the U21 level to change allegiances at the senior level was one the worst decisions they've made IMHO. Totally opens up the door for this sort of thing.
Although I believe Hargreaves cap tied to England while appearing for their U21 side (before the rule change)
Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2011, 04:14 PM
Before you lay into the CSA on that one you should look into the Asmir story further. Unlike Teal, he meant what he said about Canada and intended to play for us. There is a big world of influence surrounding our game. More than just FIFA.
Fort York Redcoat
09-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Love the post on twitter about someone spray painting TRAITOR on his car today.
Haha a fan in Red no doubt.
lerxst
09-01-2011, 04:33 PM
That really hurts when you call me names. We're talking about guys who have roots and have grown up in 2, 3, 4 countries. Why shouldn't they choose which one? And what is CSA doing to entice them to play here? Betch Hoilett doesn't....
I didn't say you WERE an idiot. It was conditional. Right now you're awesome. If you make the same selfish decision that Hargraves made though, then you'll be an idiot.
"We're talking about guys who have roots and have grown up in 2, 3, 4 countries. Why shouldn't they choose which one?"
Which guys are you referring to? Maybe someone like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi)? He seems pretty dedicated to the country of his birth. Oh but wait. We're not a top soccer nation like Argentina so eff us. I get it.
"And what is CSA doing to entice them to play here?"
Entice them? ENTICE THEM? Playoffs? PLAYOFFS? (Sorry, Jim Mora took over for a second there) How about not revoking their citizenship? Yes, the CSA is borderline crooked on its best day but when it comes to playing for your country, it's irrelevant. Period. The word "entice" should never enter the conversation in these matters.
That really hurts when you call me names. We're talking about guys who have roots and have grown up in 2, 3, 4 countries. Why shouldn't they choose which one? And what is CSA doing to entice them to play here? Betcha Hoilett doesn't....
I think the point they are trying to make is that you shouldn't have to convince someone to want to play for the Country they were either born in or grew up in. They should do it out of pride, they should do it because they want to represent their friends/family/neighbours...there are a bevy of reasons.
lerxst
09-01-2011, 04:44 PM
I think the point they are trying to make is that you shouldn't have to convince someone to want to play for the Country they were either born in or grew up in. They should do it out of pride, they should do it because they want to represent their friends/family/neighbours...there are a bevy of reasons.
He basically reiterated what I said; only nicer. Yes, I'm an asshole.
Canary10
09-01-2011, 04:50 PM
Before you lay into the CSA on that one you should look into the Asmir story further. Unlike Teal, he meant what he said about Canada and intended to play for us. There is a big world of influence surrounding our game. More than just FIFA.
What I'm referring to is the two times he was called up to the men's national team. Had he played either time he'd be committed to Canada and playing fur us tomorrow. Instead he sat the bench both times. That's what I'm blaming the CSA for.
Brooker
09-01-2011, 04:52 PM
LOL Having to entice somebody to play for their own country. Unbelievable.
TFCRegina
09-01-2011, 04:57 PM
That really hurts when you call me names. We're talking about guys who have roots and have grown up in 2, 3, 4 countries. Why shouldn't they choose which one? And what is CSA doing to entice them to play here? Betcha Hoilett doesn't....
Because Calgary, Alberta is in England.
Shakes McQueen
09-01-2011, 04:57 PM
Shoulda sent him a fruit basket.
- Scott
Shakes McQueen
09-01-2011, 05:00 PM
i heard he tore his ACL taking this photo.
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/OH.jpg
His legs are actually tied to two wooden stakes hidden behind him, so he can stand up straight. The jersey is photoshopped in - obviously putting that much weight on the right side of his body would shatter his right knee.
- Scott
Because Calgary, Alberta is in England.
LOL yah, I was wondering what his statement had to do with anything.
Scott, well played.
Canary10
09-01-2011, 05:03 PM
He basically reiterated what I said; only nicer. Yes, I'm an asshole.
What I'm saying is that a lot of these players have multiple nationalities. Who is anyone to say which they "belong" to? I have friends who came from Portugal to Canada in their teens. Are they Portuguese or Canadian?
It would be great if players just played for their "country," whatever that means. But it's not the way modern sport works. CSA needs to be actively get these players playing for us. It's not a comment on whether it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is. If we don't we'll keep losing guys like Begovic and probably Hoilett.
ag futbol
09-01-2011, 05:04 PM
Actually, twice...
Actually, at the point he was on the bench he was cap tied and there was no sign how FIFA was about to chance the rules. Making the entire point moot.
Canary10
09-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Because Calgary, Alberta is in England.
Spent his teens in England. So what?
Yohan
09-01-2011, 05:10 PM
Spent his teens in England. So what?
actually, Germany with Bayern Munich
DichioTFC
09-01-2011, 05:28 PM
That really hurts when you call me names. We're talking about guys who have roots and have grown up in 2, 3, 4 countries. Why shouldn't they choose which one? And what is CSA doing to entice them to play here? Betcha Hoilett doesn't....
Ashtone Morgan chose CSA-run Canada over higher-ranked Jamaica. Waiting for Hoilett...
TFCRegina
09-01-2011, 06:14 PM
Spent his teens in England. So what?
lololol.
And this is why I can't take any Hargreaves defender seriously.
Apparently Munich is now a part of England and the UK. Somebody tell the Bavarian and German governments so they can redraw the maps.
vergilg
09-01-2011, 08:53 PM
Nothing but RESPECT for Hargreaves.
Why?
- left home for a foreign country to give it a go at a very young age AND succeeded, AFTER being shut out at home
- made it to the pros and was the best of the best
- stood out among all English internationals
And now, he's battled several nagging injuries for the better part of 2-3 years, and still HAS THE WILL AND CONFIDENCE to go knocking on the door of full fledged comeback. MOST people would have just taken their money and called it a day.
Respect for the man's will and tenacity. It shows on the pitch, it shows off the pitch in battling his injuries, and hopefully we get to see it again on the pitch.
Oblio2
09-01-2011, 08:57 PM
Nothing but RESPECT for Hargreaves.
Why?
- left home for a foreign country to give it a go at a very young age AND succeeded, AFTER being shut out at home
- made it to the pros and was the best of the best
- stood out among all English internationals
And now, he's battled several nagging injuries for the better part of 2-3 years, and still HAS THE WILL AND CONFIDENCE to go knocking on the door of full fledged comeback. MOST people would have just taken their money and called it a day.
Respect for the man's will and tenacity. It shows on the pitch, it shows off the pitch in battling his injuries, and hopefully we get to see it again on the pitch.
+1
.
ag futbol
09-01-2011, 11:39 PM
- left home for a foreign country to give it a go at a very young age AND succeeded, AFTER being shut out at home
Getting cut as an underaged player on a U17 team is not being "shut out". If that's the standard we want to hold everyone to Michael Jordan would have quit basketball and a huge number of successful players would not be on the field today.
As for Hargreaves trajectory after leaving canada he owes a lot to Thomas Niendorf who is very much part of the system he likes to say screwed him.
He's a good footballer no doubt, but you'd be blind not to realize his motivation is that of an opportunist. Whether it be Canada, Wales, or England he simply played the card that he thought would put him the furtherest ahead. And I don't hate that, but I do hate the misleading bullshit he floats in the press.
So please, no more sob stories about how Canada abandoned Owen Hargreaves and he had to move on because we didn't want him at the time because it's the furthest thing from the truth. He was always going to leave for England if given the chance.
Canary10
09-02-2011, 08:19 AM
Stand corrected on my posts. I was going by memory instead of rechecking my facts. And of course I knew Hargreaves played for Bayern Munich. I thought he had a stop over in England first, but I think I confused him with Edgar. And the cap-tie rule....thought friendlies counted toward that, but in my defense it seems having looked back through stories on the FIFA change that barely anyone understood what the hell the change meant. But I stand corrected.
Still think the CSA has to do better in getting players to play for Canada. More than half of Toronto residents were not born in Canada, so the "Canadian" players are in the minority here, and will be more and more as time goes on. By the logic people apply to the Hargreaves situation, if you were born in another country and come here when you're 16 you should play for your home country. Don't think anyone wants that.
nimamalek
09-02-2011, 08:26 AM
Hargreaves doesnt bother me, he never played for Canada in any age group. He owes everything to the system in England and the CSA is a joke. Bagovic leaving was another story, he took part in the Canadian system, said he was going to play for us then left.
icecoldbeer
09-02-2011, 08:26 AM
fipEh7iF6RY
ag futbol
09-02-2011, 11:31 AM
Still think the CSA has to do better in getting players to play for Canada. More than half of Toronto residents were not born in Canada, so the "Canadian" players are in the minority here, and will be more and more as time goes on. By the logic people apply to the Hargreaves situation, if you were born in another country and come here when you're 16 you should play for your home country. Don't think anyone wants that.
I agree, and I've always maintained that in today's environment where players have options you really have to go out and "win" these guys to get them into the national team setup.
Steven Hart's actions are a step in the right direction in that regard, but the CSA as a whole still has miles to go before approaching an acceptable professional setup.
Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2011, 12:34 PM
Hargreaves doesnt bother me, he never played for Canada in any age group. He owes everything to the system in England and the CSA is a joke. Bagovic leaving was another story, he took part in the Canadian system, said he was going to play for us then left.
Like Canary I'll reiterate that there were other circumstances in the Bunbury-like flip-flop of Asmir.
I'll go as far to say that his choice had more to do with family than country.
Bosnia allegedly did not sway him with their FIFA ranking.
Fort York Redcoat
09-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Nothing but RESPECT for Hargreaves.
Why?
- left home for a foreign country to give it a go at a very young age AND succeeded, AFTER being shut out at home
- made it to the pros and was the best of the best
- stood out among all English internationals
And now, he's battled several nagging injuries for the better part of 2-3 years, and still HAS THE WILL AND CONFIDENCE to go knocking on the door of full fledged comeback. MOST people would have just taken their money and called it a day.
Respect for the man's will and tenacity. It shows on the pitch, it shows off the pitch in battling his injuries, and hopefully we get to see it again on the pitch.
Respect for a man's will and tenacity is one thing. Accepting he has anything to do with Canada after turning his back is another.
The way some talk of the CSA and enticement is so easy. I wonder how we supporting Canada would've treated him, a Bayern Munich player, a Man United player, playing for Canada? Then and only then would I say he's the best Canadian to kick a ball. As such he's the best player to turn his back on his country.
Canary10
09-02-2011, 12:50 PM
The one massive difference now than when Hargreaves went to Europe is TFC, Vancouver and soon Montreal. There was no where to go in Canada after under 18 youth leagues ten years ago.
I'll go so far as to say Winter is integral to that. I think a lot of kids will be really happy to go to an academy knowing a guy of Winter's playing quality is there.
smtavare
09-02-2011, 01:13 PM
If you loved your country so much, why did you come here in the first place?
I did get these immigrants who come here for a better life because of the horrible conditions of the own country.
Then they suck all the can out of Canada and run back at our expense.
By the way, I'm the son of Azorean (Portuguese) Parents.
They like to visit back home but still say they would never want to make a living there again
Show a little more pride for your country. If not, don't come here, and fight for change in life in your own home country!
Just a bunch of opportunists greedy fucks
So ya fuck you Hargreaves.. Traitor and don't ever come back here and use our Country for any of your needs again... and i'm not just talking soccer!
Heathen
09-02-2011, 01:41 PM
I'm not normally one to ask for free speech to be curtailed but on a day when Canada begins it's campaign to get to the 2014 World Cup can we please move on from this subject, all that can be said has been said. I really don't want to see his name at the top of the page anymore.
I also recognize the "hypocrisy" of upping the thread with this post but needs must.
vergilg
09-02-2011, 03:31 PM
We like to talk about Hargreaves because he's the most successful current Canadian-born player. But really, we should be talking about the young Canadians currently following in his footsteps. The most talented Canadians will ALWAYS leave for stronger football markets to develop and compete. If they hold other citizenships, they will also choose the stronger national team to play for.
"As a Canadian with a Welsh mother and an English father, Hargreaves was eligible to represent Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_men%27s_national_soccer_team), Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_national_football_team) or England. He opted to play for the England U-21 team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_under-21_football_team) in 2000 and was capped (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_%28sport%29) by the senior squad the following year."
Can anyone here in Hargreaves shoes honestly say they would pick Wales or Canada to play for and develop as a pro over England? I imagine his English father and former pro (Bolton) had something to do with his pro career choices.
So, instead of channeling meaningless, hateful remarks at Hargreaves, why don't we all take our collective voices and heads and put them towards solving domestic issues (i.e. CSA inadequacy, developing grass roots players and developing them through U-17, U-19, etc.).
Bottom line is, Hargreaves can call it a day tomorrow and not regret a choice he's made.
Brooker
09-02-2011, 09:14 PM
Can anyone here in Hargreaves shoes honestly say they would pick Wales or Canada to play for and develop as a pro over England? I imagine his English father and former pro (Bolton) had something to do with his pro career choices.
Yes, I would choose the country I was born and raised in.
TFCREDNWHITE
09-02-2011, 10:28 PM
Hargreaves should have put on a Canadian Sweater. Period.
TFC1154ever
09-02-2011, 10:44 PM
If you loved your country so much, why did you come here in the first place?
I did get these immigrants who come here for a better life because of the horrible conditions of the own country.
Then they suck all the can out of Canada and run back at our expense.
By the way, I'm the son of Azorean (Portuguese) Parents.
They like to visit back home but still say they would never want to make a living there again
Show a little more pride for your country. If not, don't come here, and fight for change in life in your own home country!
Just a bunch of opportunists greedy fucks
So ya fuck you Hargreaves.. Traitor and don't ever come back here and use our Country for any of your needs again... and i'm not just talking soccer!
Yes brother Yes.
Couchy81
09-03-2011, 12:22 AM
Born and raised in a country. Learned to play your game there. Developing skills that surpass the majority. Deciding to use those skills to make another nation's team more successful? There is one word for that and that is self-interest.
He does not want to represent the house he grew up in, the street his house was on, the hospital he was born in, the city he lived in, the school he went to, the friends he made, the elders he respected, the hard working neighbors he saw on his way to work/school/practice every day, the teammates and coaches and players he trained with, the police and firefighters who protected him, the politicians who push funding for facilities, the volunteers who run grass roots organisations to promote his sport, the guy that maintained his home team's pitch and the fucking baggage handler who hauled his parents fucking bags off the plane that brought them here from the place they no longer wanted to live. Fuck all them. My old man's team won the World Cup 50 years ago.
My dad is Hungarian and used to play on Budapest Honvéd FC's junior squad in the 50's before the Communist problems that made him decide to move to Canada. Lots of football tradition and roots in my family for that era of Hungarian sport. My mother is English as well. I was born here. I would never consider either of those countries my home nor play for either national team had I become a pro footballer. If you don't or can't feel that same feeling I do for Canada, you're fucking wrong.
TFCtoMUFC
09-03-2011, 01:20 AM
Winning a World Cup must be the greatest feeling ever. But how good can that feeling be if you are raising that trophy for a country that isn't even your home?
lerxst
09-03-2011, 08:52 AM
Nothing but RESPECT for Hargreaves.
Why?
- left home for a foreign country to give it a go at a very young age AND succeeded, AFTER being shut out at home
- made it to the pros and was the best of the best
- stood out among all English internationals
And now, he's battled several nagging injuries for the better part of 2-3 years, and still HAS THE WILL AND CONFIDENCE to go knocking on the door of full fledged comeback. MOST people would have just taken their money and called it a day.
Respect for the man's will and tenacity. It shows on the pitch, it shows off the pitch in battling his injuries, and hopefully we get to see it again on the pitch.
That's nice. You forgot turning his back on Canada. Should I respect him for that? Sad.
Macksam
09-04-2011, 11:06 AM
Hargreaves doesnt bother me, he never played for Canada in any age group. He owes everything to the system in England and the CSA is a joke. Bagovic leaving was another story, he took part in the Canadian system, said he was going to play for us then left.
Are you f*cked? What did the English system do for him?
Born and raised in a country. Learned to play your game there. Developing skills that surpass the majority. Deciding to use those skills to make another nation's team more successful? There is one word for that and that is self-interest.
He does not want to represent the house he grew up in, the street his house was on, the hospital he was born in, the city he lived in, the school he went to, the friends he made, the elders he respected, the hard working neighbors he saw on his way to work/school/practice every day, the teammates and coaches and players he trained with, the police and firefighters who protected him, the politicians who push funding for facilities, the volunteers who run grass roots organisations to promote his sport, the guy that maintained his home team's pitch and the fucking baggage handler who hauled his parents fucking bags off the plane that brought them here from the place they no longer wanted to live. Fuck all them. My old man's team won the World Cup 50 years ago.
My dad is Hungarian and used to play on Budapest Honvéd FC's junior squad in the 50's before the Communist problems that made him decide to move to Canada. Lots of football tradition and roots in my family for that era of Hungarian sport. My mother is English as well. I was born here. I would never consider either of those countries my home nor play for either national team had I become a pro footballer. If you don't or can't feel that same feeling I do for Canada, you're fucking wrong.
QFT. This post should be stickied and made into a plaque for BMO field.
Canary10
09-04-2011, 12:08 PM
Wow, zenophobic much?
TFCRegina
09-04-2011, 12:16 PM
Wow, zenophobic much?
You're right, he REALLY hates Zeno of Elia and his Paradoxes.
2mil4dero+santo
09-04-2011, 12:22 PM
Wow, zenophobic much?
nice post... three words and one of them is spelled wrong. clap...clap....clap
2mil4dero+santo
09-04-2011, 12:26 PM
Born and raised in a country. Learned to play your game there. Developing skills that surpass the majority. Deciding to use those skills to make another nation's team more successful? There is one word for that and that is self-interest.
He does not want to represent the house he grew up in, the street his house was on, the hospital he was born in, the city he lived in, the school he went to, the friends he made, the elders he respected, the hard working neighbors he saw on his way to work/school/practice every day, the teammates and coaches and players he trained with, the police and firefighters who protected him, the politicians who push funding for facilities, the volunteers who run grass roots organisations to promote his sport, the guy that maintained his home team's pitch and the fucking baggage handler who hauled his parents fucking bags off the plane that brought them here from the place they no longer wanted to live. Fuck all them. My old man's team won the World Cup 50 years ago.
My dad is Hungarian and used to play on Budapest Honvéd FC's junior squad in the 50's before the Communist problems that made him decide to move to Canada. Lots of football tradition and roots in my family for that era of Hungarian sport. My mother is English as well. I was born here. I would never consider either of those countries my home nor play for either national team had I become a pro footballer. If you don't or can't feel that same feeling I do for Canada, you're fucking wrong.
+++++1
Brooker
09-04-2011, 01:40 PM
You're right, he REALLY hates Zeno of Elia and his Paradoxes.
LOL.... but seriously I think he meant this:
"Zeno is a lunar impact crater located near the northwestern limb of the Moon."
vergilg
09-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Ironically, if he never made the career choices he made we likely wouldn't be talking about him.
TFCin110
09-04-2011, 04:44 PM
Getting cut as an underaged player on a U17 team is not being "shut out". If that's the standard we want to hold everyone to Michael Jordan would have quit basketball and a huge number of successful players would not be on the field today.
As for Hargreaves trajectory after leaving canada he owes a lot to Thomas Niendorf who is very much part of the system he likes to say screwed him.
He's a good footballer no doubt, but you'd be blind not to realize his motivation is that of an opportunist. Whether it be Canada, Wales, or England he simply played the card that he thought would put him the furtherest ahead. And I don't hate that, but I do hate the misleading bullshit he floats in the press.
So please, no more sob stories about how Canada abandoned Owen Hargreaves and he had to move on because we didn't want him at the time because it's the furthest thing from the truth. He was always going to leave for England if given the chance.
WHat a load of trife. Canada cut Hargreaves so fuck them. They deemed him not good enough so he took his talents elsewhere. Now everyone is calling him a traitor because Canada cut him? Cry me a river....
ginkster88
09-04-2011, 04:54 PM
If I'm an English hockey player eligible to play for Team Canada I hop across the pond in a second.
Just sayin...
zeelaw
09-04-2011, 05:32 PM
Fuck Hargreaves
Shakes McQueen
09-04-2011, 05:45 PM
WHat a load of trife. Canada cut Hargreaves so fuck them. They deemed him not good enough so he took his talents elsewhere. Now everyone is calling him a traitor because Canada cut him? Cry me a river....
If this is seriously your account of events as they happened, then there is no reasoning with you.
- Scott
Shakes McQueen
09-04-2011, 05:46 PM
If I'm an English hockey player eligible to play for Team Canada I hop across the pond in a second.
Just sayin...
And depending on the circumstances, English MNT fans would be right to hate you for it.
- Scott
TFCin110
09-04-2011, 08:32 PM
If this is seriously your account of events as they happened, then there is no reasoning with you.
- Scott
They cut him Shakes. The CSA cut him. Also, if I had the opportunity to play for England or Canada and play in the WC then I would play for Canada. I am a dual citizen and while I would choose Canada, I can understand why a player, who was cut by his own national team, moves to Germany at 16 and developed in a European system, would choose England over the disorganized shambles that did not want me as a player at 17.
TFCRegina
09-04-2011, 08:45 PM
They cut him Shakes. The CSA cut him. Also, if I had the opportunity to play for England or Canada and play in the WC then I would play for Canada. I am a dual citizen and while I would choose Canada, I can understand why a player, who was cut by his own national team, moves to Germany at 16 and developed in a European system, would choose England over the disorganized shambles that did not want me as a player at 17.
Actually it was at 15, when he wasn't yet physically developed and was trying out for a U-17 team.
He was asked multiple times when he was older to come back. He said no.
He had a choice, he could have said yes, and he said no.
The onus is on his treacherous ass for his decisions.
End of Story, close thread.
Brooker
09-04-2011, 09:02 PM
Using actual facts, Regina? How dare you.
TorontoPat
09-05-2011, 06:49 AM
Using actual facts, Regina? How dare you.
I didn't see any links to support that position.
TFCRegina
09-05-2011, 12:06 PM
I didn't see any links to support that position.
Do I really have to find the Paul James on Soccer Podcast where he lists all the people who asked him to come and play for Canada at higher levels?
Fine.
http://www.rednationonline.ca/PaulJamesonSoccerEpisode18.aspx
You can accuse Paul James of a lot of things, but one thing you can't accuse him of is not telling the truth every time.
It's about halfway through. Have fun.
TFCin110
09-05-2011, 03:21 PM
Actually it was at 15, when he wasn't yet physically developed and was trying out for a U-17 team.
He was asked multiple times when he was older to come back. He said no.
He had a choice, he could have said yes, and he said no.
The onus is on his treacherous ass for his decisions.
End of Story, close thread.
Well, i've heard otherwise from people within the CSA so we'll agree to disagree. At any rate, you can't fault the guy for wanting to play in the World Cup. He wasn't getting there with Canada, so while yes is sucks he chose to play for England, and while I wish he had played for Canada.....I don't blame him one bit for his decision. Frankly, I find people calling him valgour names quite childish.
TorontoPat
09-05-2011, 03:27 PM
Do I really have to find the Paul James on Soccer Podcast where he lists all the people who asked him to come and play for Canada at higher levels?
Fine.
http://www.rednationonline.ca/PaulJamesonSoccerEpisode18.aspx
You can accuse Paul James of a lot of things, but one thing you can't accuse him of is not telling the truth every time.
It's about halfway through. Have fun.
I can see clearly now....:(
Thanks
Shakes McQueen
09-05-2011, 06:00 PM
Well, i've heard otherwise from people within the CSA so we'll agree to disagree. At any rate, you can't fault the guy for wanting to play in the World Cup. He wasn't getting there with Canada, so while yes is sucks he chose to play for England, and while I wish he had played for Canada.....I don't blame him one bit for his decision. Frankly, I find people calling him valgour names quite childish.
I don't fault any player for dreaming of playing in the World Cup, but I can absolutely fault them for how they go about trying to get there.
This whole "don't fault him for pursuing his own self-interest!" line of justification, is tired.
He chose to be a national mercenary, rather than proudly don the colours of the country he grew up in. While that is his right under the rules as they exist right now, it doesn't mean Canadians should like, or even accept it - or him.
The entire point of the World Cup, is national pride. It's why people flood the streets wearing their national colours, and many players actually go against the wishes of their club teams to participate in national team games.
- Scott
2mil4dero+santo
09-05-2011, 08:56 PM
Well, i've heard otherwise from people within the CSA so we'll agree to disagree. At any rate, you can't fault the guy for wanting to play in the World Cup. He wasn't getting there with Canada, so while yes is sucks he chose to play for England, and while I wish he had played for Canada.....I don't blame him one bit for his decision. Frankly, I find people calling him valgour names quite childish.
I hate to chime in on another Whoregreaves thread but...
What he did was treason on the highest level, in sporting terms. It's not childish to hate someone for betraying you and everything you stand for in order to pursue selfish glory.
"He wasn't getting there with Canada, so while yes is sucks he chose to play for England,"
This sums up his attitude completely. How any Canadian can defend this attitude is beyond me.
torontocelt
09-05-2011, 09:43 PM
Not trying to defend him too much as we had the same problem in Scotland with mcgeady and McCarthy choosing Ireland over Scotland and I dislike both of them for it. I read though that Hargreaves is the only Canadian in his immediate family ie mum, dad, sisters and brothers. Although being born in Canada he may have been brought up as British within his own family? This is not uncommon in Canada from what I have seen. I used to work with an Asian guy who was born here but his parents would not let him date anyone who wasn't Chinese in decent and he was almost 30 years old. There are tons of people born here who for whatever reason have stronger affinities to places they have rarely been to because of family, I'm not saying it is right or wrong but that is what happens when there is so much immigration.
Fort York Redcoat
09-06-2011, 06:36 AM
Well, i've heard otherwise from people within the CSA so we'll agree to disagree. At any rate, you can't fault the guy for wanting to play in the World Cup. He wasn't getting there with Canada, so while yes is sucks he chose to play for England, and while I wish he had played for Canada.....I don't blame him one bit for his decision. Frankly, I find people calling him valgour names quite childish.
And I think "choosing" your nationality shows immaturity so...agree to disagree.
Derko
09-06-2011, 06:48 AM
And I think "choosing" your nationality shows immaturity so...agree to disagree.
I was born in England, came to Canada at 5 years old, am a Canadian citizen, I consider myself Canadian, but am English by birth and will not forget my heritage, whom would I play for if chosen for a national team, I would choose Canada, so is "choosing" your nationality really that immature, or is just basis for argument on one's opinion when it is convenient for that person.
Fort York Redcoat
09-06-2011, 07:29 AM
Heritage doesn't equal nationality. I see your point, though. Celebrate where you've come from but one must know who one is and what consequences their actions will bring.
Canary10
09-06-2011, 11:03 AM
When we get people who weren't born in Canada but are now living here making decisions about whether to play for Canada, or their country of birth, are all of you going to be sticking up for the home countries? The reality of Canada is that an increasing number of people weren't born here - more than half of residents in some parts of the country.
Brooker
09-06-2011, 11:09 AM
When we get people who weren't born in Canada but are now living here making decisions about whether to play for Canada, or their country of birth, are all of you going to be sticking up for the home countries? This will happen more and more, as more than half of people in Toronto were born in another country.
More than half the people living in Toronto were born outside Canada? Really?
Canary10
09-06-2011, 11:10 AM
More than half the people living in Toronto were born outside Canada? Really?
Yes.
Brooker
09-06-2011, 11:20 AM
and to answer your question, it wouldn't surprise if some people did stick up for other countries considering how badly we've been fucked.
But you've got to go case by case, right? What Asmir Begovic did is the fucking lowest of the low... and I'm a Stoke fan.
Canary10
09-06-2011, 11:22 AM
Here's a link. This is a bit old (from 2006 data) showing half of Toronto residents were born elsewhere. I've seen updates showing more than half, but can't find them offhand. If country of birth is the defining characteristic for nationality, we'll be guaranteed to lose a lot of good footballers in the coming years. Let's not be too rigid in making that case or we'll be eating our words at some point.
http://www.toronto.ca/demographics/pdf/2006_lang_imm_citizenship_mobility_backgrounder.pd f
Brooker
09-06-2011, 11:26 AM
I'm not talking about where their mother spat them out of her vagina. That's not the defining characteristic for nationality that anybody is talking about in here.... atleast I don't think?
I'm talking about the pieces of shit who benefit from a country their whole lives, use it's resources developing their skills and then jump ship right before or as they turn pro.
Canary10
09-06-2011, 11:34 AM
A bunch of people have said if you're born here you play here. Put Hargreaves' situation in reverse. What about someone who moves TO Canada when they're 16. Most of their lives they used resources, developed their skills, etc in another country. Do they play there or here?
A bunch of people have said if you're born here you play here. Put Hargreaves' situation in reverse. What about someone who moves TO Canada when they're 16. Most of their lives they used resources, developed their skills, etc in another country. Do they play there or here?
It's generally acceptable when it works this way, but there is always some reason to justify it. Don't try and apply logic to the situation :)
Radzinski is the perfect example.
vergilg
09-06-2011, 12:06 PM
A bunch of people have said if you're born here you play here. Put Hargreaves' situation in reverse. What about someone who moves TO Canada when they're 16. Most of their lives they used resources, developed their skills, etc in another country. Do they play there or here?
Great point. My family and I emigrated here when I was 12. I had been playing soccer since I was 5, so if you had asked me when I was 15, 16,17 who would I play for if I had the choice - motherland or Canada - I'd say motherland.
Today, I wouldn't play for the motherland even if you had paid me. I love Canada and I wouldn't dream of defending another place.
What does this mean? Everyone has their reasons for their choices. For me it was where I felt home ("home is where the heart is"). Canada is home to me. To Hargreaves it may have been about career, or something else. It doesn't matter. It was his right and that's the REALITY we live in today - if you hold multiple citizenships and your circumstances are withing FIFA rules, then you are ok.
Traitor? Treason? He never played for Canada. Only as a kid growing up. Maybe it was his entire plan/dream to take off for Europe as soon as he could. Maybe it was as simple as that. Maybe he was raised Brit and idolized Brit players. Either way, it's too bad for Canada because it cannot afford to lose top talent like that, however, a good TEAM will always stand a chance against a group of individual stars.
Fort York Redcoat
09-06-2011, 12:09 PM
and to answer your question, it wouldn't surprise if some people did stick up for other countries considering how badly we've been fucked.
But you've got to go case by case, right? What Asmir Begovic did is the fucking lowest of the low... and I'm a Stoke fan.
Again, Brooker, Asmir's case has more to it than Teal Bunbury. I'll say it another way.
Teal Bunbury never felt that playing for Canada would threaten the well being of his family.
A bunch of people have said if you're born here you play here. Put Hargreaves' situation in reverse. What about someone who moves TO Canada when they're 16. Most of their lives they used resources, developed their skills, etc in another country. Do they play there or here?
Here. My answer is always here. Just like I expect any other country involved to always expect for him to play there. THAT is the point. It's not a morality/logic contest on consistent thought
it's football. Personally, I think this type of justifying any player bailing on his country is the reason it keeps happening. Excuses. That's all they are.
One additional point though is that I'm proud as hell to live in a country that any of you would come to at any age and make a home and contribute to make that home better.
Canary10
09-06-2011, 12:19 PM
"Here. My answer is always here. Just like I expect any other country involved to always expect for him to play there. THAT is the point. It's not a morality/logic contest on consistent thought
it's football."
I basically agree. But we live in a world where people are almost free agents when it comes to their nationality. Especially in Canada where more people are not born here than pretty much any other place on the planet. In a world where no morality/logic applies, a professional soccer association has to get really good at making sure people play here. The CSA isn't there yet I don't think. They still seems to live in a world where there is the morality of you play for your country.
Canary10
09-06-2011, 01:10 PM
We should start an internet/social networking campaign to get David Hoillett to play for Canada.
TFCin110
09-06-2011, 01:28 PM
The reality is that football is driven by money. If a player believes that playing for a better quality national team is going to enhance their career, which will in turn lead them to greater club riches then it is a no brainer. Hargreaves believes he was slighted by Canada so when England came knocking it was a no brainer. The outcome was he was the England teams player of the year in 2006 and after that the increased contract offers, edorsements, and bids to Bayern were flowing in. He would not have got that by playing for Canada. Call him a traitor, villan, whatever you want. But now he is 30 years old, his career is virtually over and he got biggest pay day after he played for England in 2006.
Fort York Redcoat
09-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Money. The CSA. Excuses.
He stays and he's the biggest hero the sport has ever seen here. He switched. He doesn't get my understanding.
TorontoPat
09-06-2011, 02:43 PM
A bunch of people have said if you're born here you play here. Put Hargreaves' situation in reverse. What about someone who moves TO Canada when they're 16. Most of their lives they used resources, developed their skills, etc in another country. Do they play there or here?
If you are in a position to declare your nationality do it. Keep in mind there is no turning back as far as I'm concerned. If you consider yourself English, American, Italian, whatever, make a choice, that's fine. Just don't be calling yourself a Canadian at a later date.
prizby
09-06-2011, 03:11 PM
A bunch of people have said if you're born here you play here. Put Hargreaves' situation in reverse. What about someone who moves TO Canada when they're 16. Most of their lives they used resources, developed their skills, etc in another country. Do they play there or here?
never would expect them too...lets be honest...how many promising English or French or German etc...soccer players decide to move to Canada when they are 16; when they are 16 and already seen as promising, chances are they already play with the u17 team
Yohan
09-06-2011, 03:13 PM
If you are in a position to declare your nationality do it. Keep in mind there is no turning back as far as I'm concerned. If you consider yourself English, American, Italian, whatever, make a choice, that's fine. Just don't be calling yourself a Canadian at a later date.
+1
Eligibility rules would be so much simpler if it was only eligible via citizenship, none of this 'my grandpa was born in another country' business
Macksam
09-06-2011, 06:04 PM
Here's a link. This is a bit old (from 2006 data) showing half of Toronto residents were born elsewhere. I've seen updates showing more than half, but can't find them offhand. If country of birth is the defining characteristic for nationality, we'll be guaranteed to lose a lot of good footballers in the coming years. Let's not be too rigid in making that case or we'll be eating our words at some point.
http://www.toronto.ca/demographics/pdf/2006_lang_imm_citizenship_mobility_backgrounder.pd f
That would be a case of immigration for non-footballing terms. I, like most of the people here, have no problem with that. Most of us here have a problem with someone choosing another country because his parents are from there, despite that fact he himself has never lived there.
+1
Eligibility rules would be so much simpler if it was only eligible via citizenship, none of this 'my grandpa was born in another country' business
This.
John Stamos
09-21-2011, 04:01 PM
17 Mins on his Debut for City!
Owen Hargreaves is back baby!
TorontoPat
09-21-2011, 04:04 PM
17 Mins on his Debut for City!
Owen Hargreaves is back baby!
The English produce some great players.......
trane
09-21-2011, 04:31 PM
I am not the one to complain about this kind of stuff. But what the hell does this have to do with TFC?????
MartinUtd
09-21-2011, 04:53 PM
I am not the one to complain about this kind of stuff. But what the hell does this have to do with TFC?????
I think it was floated before we signed Frings. Then continued as the Vancouver speculation mounted. I suppose now that it's a done deal this thread could be moved to the international forum.
Ossington Mental Youth
09-21-2011, 06:15 PM
still wouldnt have taken him, regardless of his goal and 57 mins on the field
Owen Hargreaves can eat fermented donkey penis ...
still attached to the donkey
flatpicker
09-21-2011, 06:52 PM
Yeah, nothing to do with Toronto.... still a nice goal though.
ZZf50RLN434
I'm not talking about where their mother spat them out of her vagina. That's not the defining characteristic for nationality that anybody is talking about in here.... atleast I don't think?
I'm talking about the pieces of shit who benefit from a country their whole lives, use it's resources developing their skills and then jump ship right before or as they turn pro.
:facepalm:
People can play for who they want. It's not surprising the number of players born in Canada who don't play for it, honestly you can't blame these people Canada isn't much of a footballing country. That's the reality.
uncle p
09-21-2011, 07:40 PM
:facepalm:
People can play for who they want. It's not surprising the number of players born in Canada who don't play for it, honestly you can't blame these people Canada isn't much of a footballing country. That's the reality.
I think you should face palm your own post because....wait for it....
YOU JUST HIGHLIGHTED THE PROBLEM!!!!
How are we supposed to become a good "footballing nation" if our talent keeps jumping ship?!?
London
09-21-2011, 07:53 PM
I think you should face palm your own post because....wait for it....
YOU JUST HIGHLIGHTED THE PROBLEM!!!!
How are we supposed to become a good "footballing nation" if our talent keeps jumping ship?!?
this
Fort York Redcoat
09-22-2011, 06:54 AM
Gawd I love this song.
fipEh7iF6RY
vergilg
09-22-2011, 11:54 AM
I think you should face palm your own post because....wait for it....
YOU JUST HIGHLIGHTED THE PROBLEM!!!!
How are we supposed to become a good "footballing nation" if our talent keeps jumping ship?!?
When there is proper professional and amateur infrastructure to support the development of top talent, then you will top talent sticking around.
As it is, top talent leaves for: A) Europe/South Am., B) USA, C) Anywhere else. Canada seems to be the last option/destination. That's the reality. Owen Hargreaves is just one example of this failed system.
I know there will be replies trying to offer a rebuttal using the Hargreaves situation, but you really have to look at the big picture not individual cases.
There is an ENORMOUS grass roots interest and activity in soccer in this country. Yet, there is nothing supporting this from the other end. Why is the game not promoted? Why are we not pushing for more MLS franchises on par with what is going on in the NHL, at least? why are we hampering the national team's with poor decision making?
Bottom line, there's no vision at the top level for the sport in Canada. Thus, we're not qualifying for the cup, we don't put any bids to host cup, there are no clear plans to develop pro soccer in Canada. Seems like everyone is pulling in different directions and doing it their own way.
Hopefully, the national team somehow makes the next world cup in spite of all the problems. This will be a huge step.
Yohan
09-22-2011, 12:05 PM
hrm. U20 WC, and now women's WC in 2015. not bidding for cups?
Canada is pretty much tapped out for MLS expansion with Mtl. you're nuts if you think any other cities outside Van/Mtl/Tor can support an MLS franchise right now
TFCRegina
09-22-2011, 12:08 PM
hrm. U20 WC, and now women's WC in 2015. not bidding for cups?
Canada is pretty much tapped out for MLS expansion with Mtl. you're nuts if you think any other cities outside Van/Mtl/Tor can support an MLS franchise right now
NASL is the next stage.
But NASL and MLS will not be able to keep these players at home.
Let's admit it for what it is. These players aren't interested in their home country and just want cash to play for foreign countries.
That's what it is. As I said many pages back:
End of Story. Close thread.
uncle p
09-22-2011, 12:18 PM
I'd still rather lose with Canada than win with Someone else.
And Im talking National team not club team....
Fort York Redcoat
09-22-2011, 12:22 PM
When there is proper professional and amateur infrastructure to support the development of top talent, then you will top talent sticking around.
As it is, top talent leaves for: A) Europe/South Am., B) USA, C) Anywhere else. Canada seems to be the last option/destination. That's the reality. Owen Hargreaves is just one example of this failed system.
I know there will be replies trying to offer a rebuttal using the Hargreaves situation, but you really have to look at the big picture not individual cases.
There is an ENORMOUS grass roots interest and activity in soccer in this country. Yet, there is nothing supporting this from the other end. Why is the game not promoted? Why are we not pushing for more MLS franchises on par with what is going on in the NHL, at least? why are we hampering the national team's with poor decision making?
Bottom line, there's no vision at the top level for the sport in Canada. Thus, we're not qualifying for the cup, we don't put any bids to host cup, there are no clear plans to develop pro soccer in Canada. Seems like everyone is pulling in different directions and doing it their own way.
Hopefully, the national team somehow makes the next world cup in spite of all the problems. This will be a huge step.
oh my aching head.
How about this ENORmous grass roots interest turn up for Canada games. The CSA is improving their approach to getting people out with a minimal marketing budget so they can overpay people like Morace to get our teams the best guidance. The recent failure in raising interest in the Women's side will be felt for a while I'm afraid and we'll have Hart for at least this cycle. Let's keep in mind that by the next World cup the CSA will be overhauling their cracked system completely.
If you're going to propose more radical change let's hear it.
"proper infrastructure" isn't very specific.
When there is proper professional and amateur infrastructure to support the development of top talent, then you will top talent sticking around.
As it is, top talent leaves for: A) Europe/South Am., B) USA, C) Anywhere else. Canada seems to be the last option/destination. That's the reality. Owen Hargreaves is just one example of this failed system.
I know there will be replies trying to offer a rebuttal using the Hargreaves situation, but you really have to look at the big picture not individual cases.
There is an ENORMOUS grass roots interest and activity in soccer in this country. Yet, there is nothing supporting this from the other end. Why is the game not promoted? Why are we not pushing for more MLS franchises on par with what is going on in the NHL, at least? why are we hampering the national team's with poor decision making?
Bottom line, there's no vision at the top level for the sport in Canada. Thus, we're not qualifying for the cup, we don't put any bids to host cup, there are no clear plans to develop pro soccer in Canada. Seems like everyone is pulling in different directions and doing it their own way.
Hopefully, the national team somehow makes the next world cup in spite of all the problems. This will be a huge step.
Even if all this is true, why should it stop someone from playing for Canada?
Lot's of professional basketball players hone their games in private schools and then the college system in the US. They still play for their countries when it comes to national competition.
We have many young foreign hockey players now going through our minor hockey system and they still play for their countries.
So why can't a Canadian kid use the resources of a country with a good development system and still play for Canada?
Gazza
09-22-2011, 12:45 PM
Gawd I love this song.
fipEh7iF6RY
I've seen this a million times yet i still clicked on it and managed to laugh my ass off!
I laughed so hard that i developed tendonitis in my knee and now i'm going to miss another season. Thanks a lot Redcoat!
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