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MartinUtd
06-15-2011, 09:01 PM
I know 0-0 on the road is supposed to be a good thing but I'm disappointed with the lack of creativity going forward. Nobody else but Gordon and Santos (if he's wide open) is willing to take a shot and this is ultimately going to be our main downfall. We need that DeRo replacement this July or else we're right fucked.

I'm going to the bar to watch the hockey now. Peace.

CSO_BBTB
06-15-2011, 09:07 PM
Hopefully Stevanovic finally shows something once the injury is out of the way and hopefully the DP rule can be used to fill the void where DeRosario is concerned. This team is not that far off being a contender for a playoff spot now. Good to see signs of improvement at a time of year where in years past the midseason nosedive in form has tended to start.

sully
06-15-2011, 09:09 PM
Reasonable enough. Fair result. Always like Ecks too.

Couchy81
06-15-2011, 09:12 PM
IMO, man of the match for TFC - Doneil Henry

torontocelt
06-15-2011, 09:15 PM
Hopefully Stevanovic finally shows something once the injury is out of the way and hopefully the DP rule can be used to fill the void where DeRosario is concerned. This team is not that far off being a contender for a playoff spot now. Good to see signs of improvement at a time of year where in years past the midseason nosedive in form has tended to start.

You do realise we have picked up 5 points from a possible 21 in the last 7 games right? That form is pretty shite by all accounts, one point out of every possible four points.

Auzzy
06-15-2011, 09:19 PM
From the other thread...


Funny a lot of people seem to be pointing to JDG but I'll put the same weight on Tchani. The guy is an anchor (not the good kind) when trying to move the ball forward and simply takes too long to make bad decisions.

Yourassowski might actually be the short-term answer for us at AM. He seems to understand what the role requires even though he doesn't have the complete package to play the spot.

Totally agree, Tchani is really hot & cold with his passes especially, he's had some real howlers. But he's also a young GA player (= cheap), and already better than JDG on the defensive end IMO.

You know, I'm still a bit of a JDG fan. It's just surprising what some really cheap guys can do in comparison, especially if they try hard.

denime
06-15-2011, 09:19 PM
You do realise we have picked up 5 points from a possible 21 in the last 7 games right? That form is pretty shite by all accounts, one point out of every possible four points.


Thanks Capetian obvious,what would we do without post like this?:facepalm:

TFCRegina
06-15-2011, 09:20 PM
Thanks Capetian obvious,what would we do without post like this?:facepalm:

Capetian Obvious!

Does that mean he's a member of the Capet family - IE: A potential heir to the throne of Spain, and a pretender to the throne of France?

Auzzy
06-15-2011, 09:23 PM
^ That was some quick Googling... :D

torontocelt
06-15-2011, 09:23 PM
Thanks Capetian obvious,what would we do without post like this?:facepalm:

Shit, sorry, yeah we are picking up in form.

Dave67
06-15-2011, 09:27 PM
2/6 points on the road. I was expecting 0 points over these 2 games so I'm quite happy with this run. Coast to coast games and we get 2 points, cheer up everyone! Henry looked pretty decent as CB and no Gargan anywhere near the pitch. Not a bad roadtrip at all.

ag futbol
06-15-2011, 09:27 PM
You know, I'm still a bit of a JDG fan. It's just surprising what some really cheap guys can do in comparison, especially if they try hard.
I'm not down on JDG but really signing him was a dumb move in the first place. It's like having a $2000 dollar Rolex when you live in the trailer park.

CSO_BBTB
06-15-2011, 09:27 PM
Way to think about it is that the 2-6 game against Philly is now well and truly out of the team's system and although the tied games need to start turning into victories the encouraging thing is that the foundation for that appears to be very much in place now in terms of the team playing Winter's preferred system if a couple of extra quality players can be added to the mix either from the existing roster (Stevanovic) or from the international transfer marked (a second DP on a prorated number against the cap).

Beach_Red
06-15-2011, 09:31 PM
Way to think about it is that the 2-6 game against Philly is now well and truly out of the team's system and although the tied games need to start turning into victories the encouraging thing is that foundation appears to be very much in place now in terms of the team playing Winter's preferred system if a couple of extra quality players can be added to the mix.

Yes, it sure sems like the team is on the way to this (maybe a little too soon to say, "very much in place," but certainly on the way) and yes, a couple of quality players will make a big difference.

PopePouri
06-15-2011, 09:33 PM
Way to think about it is that the 2-6 game against Philly is now well and truly out of the team's system and although the tied games need to start turning into victories the encouraging thing is that the foundation for that appears to be very much in place now in terms of the team playing Winter's preferred system if a couple of extra quality players can be added to the mix either from the existing roster (Stevanovic) or from the international transfer marked (a second DP on a prorated number against the cap).

The difference is that Gargan isn't playing. Here's hoping he doesn't touch the pitch again.

trane
06-15-2011, 09:34 PM
I'm not down on JDG but really signing him was a dumb move in the first place. It's like having a $2000 dollar Rolex when you live in the trailer park.


I must disagree, a trailer park is exectly the kind of place I would be looking for a $2000.00 Rolex, as at that price it must be stollen. You got any????

torontocelt
06-15-2011, 09:38 PM
Way to think about it is that the 2-6 game against Philly is now well and truly out of the team's system and although the tied games need to start turning into victories the encouraging thing is that the foundation for that appears to be very much in place now in terms of the team playing Winter's preferred system if a couple of extra quality players can be added to the mix either from the existing roster (Stevanovic) or from the international transfer marked (a second DP on a prorated number against the cap).

Agreed that a lot is going to depend on who we bring in but believe me heavy scoring losses are not out the question for this team. It wont be anything like 6 - 2 but we could still see 3-0 losses, TFC has shown one thing so far this season and that is that they are incredibly inconsistent and I dont see that changing before the end of the season. Stevanovic is one I dont see working out. He will be gone for sure by the end of the season. He looks good in very small patches but for some reason he is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, it is just not working. He has a good touch, good speed etc but he has not produced much for TFC, it is quite mind boggling how he has not done better because he obviously has a bit of talent.

habstfc
06-15-2011, 09:38 PM
Any word on the attendance tonight? Sad thing is, even if the bruins weren't in game seven of the stanley cup finals there probably wouldn't be much difference.

TFCRegina
06-15-2011, 09:40 PM
^ That was some quick Googling... :D

I'm actually a monarchist, i didn't need to google at all. I'm a nerd like that.

Auzzy
06-15-2011, 09:40 PM
Totally agree on the inconsistency. I could just as well see them getting blown away at home by Seattle this weekend, as they could squeeze out a win. Expecting nothing helps to keep me sane.

billyfly
06-15-2011, 09:41 PM
TFC get to party in Downtown Boston tonight.

mightydrm
06-15-2011, 09:42 PM
Progress. Surprisingly deep roster; one or two players (two AM's in my view) from being really good.

Rhapido
06-15-2011, 09:43 PM
Capetian Obvious!

Does that mean he's a member of the Capet family - IE: A potential heir to the throne of Spain, and a pretender to the throne of France?
And his signature begs that we show up early for the "worm ups".

Beach_Red
06-15-2011, 09:44 PM
I'm actually a monarchist, i didn't need to google at all. I'm a nerd like that.

You must be, who googles a typo? ;)

Soccerpro
06-15-2011, 09:44 PM
Henry was very good good tonight. I wish Morgan could get a game over Borman. We're not good this year, but we could be very good next year with the right pieces.

billyfly
06-15-2011, 09:45 PM
I googled bunga bunga party today.

That was funny.

Suds
06-15-2011, 09:46 PM
I was hoping TFC would come home with 3 of 6 points. We got 2 so I'm happy from that perspective.

Some bright spots have been the return of Gordon and Henry showing that his development is coming along. (minus the one time he was ball watching on a cross he played very well tonight). Cordon is continues to show signs of skill but holds the ball way too long. Hopefully he'll learn when to hold and when to move the ball. Ecks has been solid as usual. I think Sturgis had one of his best games of the year.


I'd still like to see a little more heart and mettle out of the boys. Still have too many players checking out of the games for too long during periods of the game.

Detroit_TFC
06-15-2011, 09:47 PM
I saw things I liked tonight, Henry might have won a starter slot with his play tonight. I liked Plata and Soolsma switching sides, it tripped up the Revs back line. Yes our attack was weak but we did have chances and I liked the interplay between Gordon and Plata.

Considering some of the shit shows we've seen this season, this was an improvement.

mightydrm
06-15-2011, 09:48 PM
TFC get to party in Downtown Boston tonight. and will lead them to the MLS cup! Hooked on a feeling!

CSO_BBTB
06-15-2011, 09:50 PM
Henry was very good good tonight. I wish Morgan could get a game over Borman. We're not good this year, but we could be very good next year with the right pieces.

The willingness to use Cordon suggests that Winter will give the Academy players a chance when they earn it. Think Borman has improved recently and that it's best to avoid a Canadians vs the rest mentality when supporting a club side. Eventually I suspect Yourassowsky will wind up at left back again once certain issues in the midfield are resolved.

Bars92
06-15-2011, 09:59 PM
Will we get 5 wins?

Rhapido
06-15-2011, 10:00 PM
Just kidding around here with you, Denime.

Auzzy
06-15-2011, 10:04 PM
Will we get 5 wins?

In how many years?

mightydrm
06-15-2011, 10:04 PM
It is hilarious that the Vancouver fans are booing Bettman and cheering Boston!

kodiakTFC
06-15-2011, 10:05 PM
TFC get to party in Downtown Boston tonight.

Unlikely, they're probably on the next flight back seeing as how they play on Saturday.

Overall, the team moved the ball around well against a really awful team and failed to get any real chances. Gordon was good in the first half, Ecks was solid, Henry was good, Frei did his job and Sturgis can cross a ball really well.

Bars92
06-15-2011, 10:06 PM
In how many years?

Season V

boozilla
06-15-2011, 10:07 PM
Best moment:
Cordon turning Joseph inside out.

Suds
06-15-2011, 10:09 PM
Best moment:
Cordon turning Joseph inside out.

I thought is was Twellman saying "It's the frickin' Stanley Cup, man" during the broadcast. :D

Auzzy
06-15-2011, 10:10 PM
Season V

All in one season? Wow that's setting the bar high... :D

rocker
06-15-2011, 10:12 PM
Good road match. Given the crap we've seen over the years on the road, this was probably one of the better games. Even Twellman was talking about TFC having the run of play for the most part. First 20 minutes were all TFC. They stumbled from about the 65-75th and then after Zav's red. But I see positives in the interplay.

A.J
06-15-2011, 10:29 PM
I wish I watched this match instead of the Canucks vs Bruins game

TFCwestcan
06-15-2011, 10:35 PM
Gordon looked dead tired by the end, I agree with Twellman's assessment why take of Santos who was having a decent game and leave on Gordon who was struggling with match fitness. Some times Winter's tactics require some subtitles...

Looking forward to Saturday's game, I except a better match than the first blow out. Mind Seattle are a much better team than NE.

Jack
06-15-2011, 10:52 PM
I was pleasantly surprised as I hadn't had the chance to see a TFC game since before I went away on vacation (and the last one I saw was the rainout!)

I see progress and I saw some solid stuff from Eckersley, especially.

UltraSuperMegaMo
06-15-2011, 10:55 PM
Not bad, not great. It will be interesting to see if TFC can keep building against Seattle.

Serb_Star
06-15-2011, 11:41 PM
I'm sold on Henry, Cordon not so much.

UltraSuperMegaMo
06-15-2011, 11:45 PM
I think Henry's at a physical level that allows him to compete, Cordon has a way to go still. Henry did make a couple or errors that a better team would have made TFC pay for.

Roogsy
06-16-2011, 12:12 AM
This was 2 of the league's worst teams showing how inept each are. They took tooks losing the ball to each other for 90 minutes. It was a pretty poor level of football on both sides. It was no surprise both are scraping the bottom of the standings.

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS.html

Probability stats show Toronto with a 3.4% chance of making the playoffs. In June! You have to reach a certain level of suckitude to achieve this accomplishment, especially when 2 extra playoff spots have been added this year.

Call it a year, play the kids and retool.

Whoop
06-16-2011, 12:14 AM
The East is terrible this year.

Roogsy
06-16-2011, 12:17 AM
The East is terrible this year.

That only makes us look worse.

TFCRegina
06-16-2011, 12:33 AM
Will we get 5 wins?

Been asking this for a while.

CSO_BBTB
06-16-2011, 03:40 AM
A couple of things to ponder maybe. After the 2-6 game with no JDG and no Cann (and then no Attakora after the KC game) things looked potentially problematic to say the least given the lack of depth to the roster. Three games later it's clear that even with the existing squad no JDG, no Cann and no Attakora is no problem so the resident malcontents are in no way pivotal. There is genuine competition for places now so JDG and Attakora could easily be dropped from the starting lineup between now and the end of the season and then moved on once their contracts are up now that Canadian content requirements are much less stringent. That strengthens the position of Mariner and Winter considerably and reduces the scope for the sort of mischief that may or may not have undermined Preki last season after the promising run of form prior to the World Cup break ended due in part to a dramatic dip in goal scoring from a certain high profile player after Mista became second highest paid on the roster.

Beyond that despite the two extra teams the bar on reaching the playoffs is slightly lower this year now that 10 out of 18 rather than 8 out of 16 teams get in. Although 15 points from 16 games is less than stellar with 18 games remaining and the transfer window soon to open it doesn't take an outrageous swing in fortunes to get up to around 40 points so it's way too early to talk about the season being over.

deltox
06-16-2011, 06:33 AM
game report says attendance was 6680

Fort York Redcoat
06-16-2011, 06:57 AM
^Absolute horseshit. Closer to 600 but whatever. Don't care how many were at the Boston pubs instead.

Henry had a great game with finally some time to show his skill. Although we wouldn't be singing his praises as much if that cross that got over him connected square with the NE player that shanked it wide.

In retrospect, Gordon shouldn't have played as much as he did but damn if he wasn't the best player on the pitch for us again. If he could just stay healthy we'd see a crucial ingredient added to this team.

brad
06-16-2011, 07:30 AM
^Absolute horseshit. Closer to 600 but whatever. Don't care how many were at the Boston pubs instead.

Henry had a great game with finally some time to show his skill. Although we wouldn't be singing his praises as much if that cross that got over him connected square with the NE player that shanked it wide.

In retrospect, Gordon shouldn't have played as much as he did but damn if he wasn't the best player on the pitch for us again. If he could just stay healthy we'd see a crucial ingredient added to this team.

I hope people set expectations on Henry realistically (which I'm sure some will and some won't). He's an 18 year kid with a bright future. 18 year olds are generally going to make mistakes though, and they aren't going to be solid week in and week out.

Jack
06-16-2011, 07:33 AM
I hope people set expectations on Henry realistically (which I'm sure some will and some won't). He's an 18 year kid with a bright future. 18 year olds are generally going to make mistakes though, and they aren't going to be solid week in and week out.

After seeing what he did last night, I'll gladly take some mistakes as he continues to develop. This kid is a player.

Oldtimer
06-16-2011, 07:35 AM
It's better if people don't get excited and start thinking playoffs at this point. It could happen still, anything can happen in MLS, but it's not overly likely.

koryo
06-16-2011, 07:53 AM
I hope people set expectations on Henry realistically (which I'm sure some will and some won't). He's an 18 year kid with a bright future. 18 year olds are generally going to make mistakes though, and they aren't going to be solid week in and week out.

Of course he'll make mistakes, but his potential upswing overshadows that. Honestly, he has Cann's job (who I've never rated anyway) as far as I'm concerned. The reason he has it is that he shows a good reading of the game (for anyone, never mind just for his age), is quick, and doesn't look too shabby with the ball at his feet. Neither Cann nor Attakora have all three of these attributes in my opinion.

Alixir
06-16-2011, 07:56 AM
^Absolute horseshit. Closer to 600 but whatever. Don't care how many were at the Boston pubs instead.

I don't know how NE even has a team with such consistantly bad attendance.

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2011, 08:00 AM
Of course he'll make mistakes, but his potential upswing overshadows that. Honestly, he has Cann's job (who I've never rated anyway) as far as I'm concerned. The reason he has it is that he shows a good reading of the game (for anyone, never mind just for his age), is quick, and doesn't look too shabby with the ball at his feet. Neither Cann nor Attakora have all three of these attributes in my opinion.

Agreed. I've been pleasantly surprised with Henry's level of maturity on the pitch so early in his professional career.

Captain
06-16-2011, 08:04 AM
I can't take much more of Youassowsky's rolling around on the ground like a stuck pig. It's getting a bit embarrassing.

koryo
06-16-2011, 08:13 AM
I can't take much more of Youassowsky's rolling around on the ground like a stuck pig. It's getting a bit embarrassing.

Agreed. I had more than one good shout at him on the telly last night.

Of course, he did hear me...

BFin
06-16-2011, 08:17 AM
Wow, pleasantly surprised that everyone ignored the massive wet blanket on page 2 of this thread.

Getting 2 points in 4 days on the road is not a bad result by any means. Sure we lacked finish but the effort was there tonight, and the midfield did not look too bad.

drexel10
06-16-2011, 08:19 AM
Of course he'll make mistakes, but his potential upswing overshadows that. Honestly, he has Cann's job (who I've never rated anyway) as far as I'm concerned. The reason he has it is that he shows a good reading of the game (for anyone, never mind just for his age), is quick, and doesn't look too shabby with the ball at his feet. Neither Cann nor Attakora have all three of these attributes in my opinion.

He looks better than both of them. Better touch and read than Attakora and good pace. Twellman sure liked him. lol!

PopePouri
06-16-2011, 08:22 AM
Of course he'll make mistakes, but his potential upswing overshadows that. Honestly, he has Cann's job (who I've never rated anyway) as far as I'm concerned. The reason he has it is that he shows a good reading of the game (for anyone, never mind just for his age), is quick, and doesn't look too shabby with the ball at his feet. Neither Cann nor Attakora have all three of these attributes in my opinion.

He also looks dangerous on set pieces.

Suds
06-16-2011, 08:27 AM
I can't take much more of Youassowsky's rolling around on the ground like a stuck pig. It's getting a bit embarrassing.

Yeah, the group of us watching the game were saying the same thing.

Big difference between drawing a foul and diving. I do not want divers on my team.

Suds
06-16-2011, 08:33 AM
I hope people set expectations on Henry realistically (which I'm sure some will and some won't). He's an 18 year kid with a bright future. 18 year olds are generally going to make mistakes though, and they aren't going to be solid week in and week out.

Agreed. Let's give the kid the time to really develop his game. As he plays more minutes he will face some crafty strikers who I'm sure will teach him some tough lessons. But I like what I have seen in his limited playing time.

My top 4 players from last night were "Commissioner" Gordon, Henry, Sturgis, and Ecks.

Nodoubtguy
06-16-2011, 08:40 AM
Gotta say that after some of the games we've seen this year......2 pts in 2 road games is not bad at all.

Seeing alot more positives in this team as of late. Henry....wow, amazing ability to step up and in my opinion make a strong case to start from now on. Gordon changes our team. Eckersley.....love him. Borman has been good too.

Hopefully they keep moving forward. A win this weekend could do alot of good for this team.

Youassowsky?? a shameful show......

whyalwaysme11
06-16-2011, 08:45 AM
I saw things I liked tonight, Henry might have won a starter slot with his play tonight. I liked Plata and Soolsma switching sides, it tripped up the Revs back line. Yes our attack was weak but we did have chances and I liked the interplay between Gordon and Plata.

Considering some of the shit shows we've seen this season, this was an improvement.


I agree Henry looked like a different man compared to the times he played last year. Plata is Plata i am not a big fan he makes a couple of runs here and there but thats about it but i think thats just a development thing well at least i hope it is. and why does Yourassowsky role around 700 times every time he gets touched... now he is known for that. Borman has a solid game. and Eckersley always plays his heart out like Frei. We suffered a bit in the second half in the midfield i think Tchani and Julian work well together and i like Julians new defensive mid role this year... why was santos taken off so early? to rest him for saturday? o well i will take that tie any day of the week given the condition our franchise is in. it was a great game... i was even able to watch the 3rd period of game 7. im still pissed from canadas brutal tie the other night. anyways i live and die with tfc there is no turning back now even if mlse doesnt give a crap to put a winning team out there.

CoachGT
06-16-2011, 08:48 AM
Pleasantly surprised to see a half decent showing on the road after another half decent showing on the road.

Some real positives - Stefan seems to be a lot more vocal at the back - the "slip up" in the final few minutes sent him screaming at the back line. He is taking charge back there!

I like seeing the creativity Cordon brings.

Would have preferred to see Plata come on late and expend a little energy when the opposition is lacking theirs - it would make things a lot more interesting!

lintberg
06-16-2011, 08:48 AM
Wow, pleasantly surprised that everyone ignored the massive wet blanket on page 2 of this thread.

Getting 2 points in 4 days on the road is not a bad result by any means. Sure we lacked finish but the effort was there tonight, and the midfield did not look too bad.


Well said!

Hopefully we can grab the 3 points at home this weekend.

Alixir
06-16-2011, 09:27 AM
I can't take much more of Youassowsky's rolling around on the ground like a stuck pig. It's getting a bit embarrassing.I am getting sick of his nack of not knowing when to shut the fuck up...sick of his needless yellows that are a result of constant arguing with the card carrier.

Alixir
06-16-2011, 09:29 AM
Stefan seems to be a lot more vocal at the back[/B] - the "slip up" in the final few minutes sent him screaming at the back line. He is taking charge back there!

no it was just cause the stadium was empty...you could hear him over the zzzzzz coming from the stands.

Chevy
06-16-2011, 10:10 AM
Wow, pleasantly surprised that everyone ignored the massive wet blanket on page 2 of this thread.

Getting 2 points in 4 days on the road is not a bad result by any means. Sure we lacked finish but the effort was there tonight, and the midfield did not look too bad.

A+. Debbie Downer and the Bringdown Bunch are playing to smaller and smaller crowds these days (just like the Revs).

brad
06-16-2011, 10:21 AM
He looks better than both of them. Better touch and read than Attakora and good pace. Twellman sure liked him. lol!

That's actually pretty high praise coming from someone that was a very good MLS striker.

brad
06-16-2011, 10:23 AM
Pleasantly surprised to see a half decent showing on the road after another half decent showing on the road.

Some real positives - Stefan seems to be a lot more vocal at the back - the "slip up" in the final few minutes sent him screaming at the back line. He is taking charge back there!

I like seeing the creativity Cordon brings.

Would have preferred to see Plata come on late and expend a little energy when the opposition is lacking theirs - it would make things a lot more interesting!

I'm excited about Cordon. I think he might still be a bit too raw to be playing, but I think this kid has a huge future.

Pachuco
06-16-2011, 10:29 AM
I'm not down on JDG but really signing him was a dumb move in the first place. It's like having a $2000 dollar Rolex when you live in the trailer park.

Correction. It's like having a $2000 dollar broken Rolex when you live in a trailer park.

P-NUTZ
06-16-2011, 11:04 AM
happy with getting a couple of road points, but not happy about not scoring, and drawing against two shit teams like KC & NE.:(

dow117
06-16-2011, 11:31 AM
Some encouraging signs with Henry, Ecks. I also thought Sturgis had a decent game and a good understanding developing between Plata and Gordon ...with everyone healthy and Stevanovic playing to his obvious potential, we could make a run at it !!!

Dv23
06-16-2011, 11:56 AM
Not a fan of these early subs. Been saying it from the beginning. Gets us into trouble.

jloome
06-16-2011, 12:20 PM
I saw things I liked tonight, Henry might have won a starter slot with his play tonight. I liked Plata and Soolsma switching sides, it tripped up the Revs back line. Yes our attack was weak but we did have chances and I liked the interplay between Gordon and Plata.

Considering some of the shit shows we've seen this season, this was an improvement.

Having a decent defensive showing against New England doesn't really count.

Derko
06-16-2011, 12:39 PM
Agreed. I had more than one good shout at him on the telly last night.

Of course, he did hear me...

Yes he is becoming a bit of a diver :picard:, it needs to stop. I shouted louder than you did!!

ManUtd4ever
06-16-2011, 12:51 PM
I'm excited about Cordon. I think he might still be a bit too raw to be playing, but I think this kid has a huge future.

Agreed. If Nicholas Lindsay was healthy, there would already be 3 TFC Academy players (including Henry and Cordon) that would be capable of playing with the first team this season. Not bad for a football academy that is only 3 years old...

Auzzy
06-16-2011, 02:05 PM
I don't know how NE even has a team with such consistantly bad attendance.

NE attendance last night, when their local team is in game 7 of the Stanley Cup, is totally irrelevant. Totally nuts that the league didn't allow the game to be rescheduled, when both teams apparently asked for it.

However: http://mjpurpleaces.blogspot.com/2011/05/portland-leads-week-8-attendance-in-mls.html

Both NE & Columbus average attendance have dropped significantly this year and are now around the lowest of the league. (San Jose with it's small stadium doesn't really compare.) Perhaps partly the result of early-season home games & bad weather?? Chicago has also dropped over 2000 on average. In NY & Philly, the shiny newness may have worn off a bit, with drops of over 1000 (plus weather impact?). Also some surprising increases, like DCU (??), Dallas (??), & LA. I haven't checked what local or scheduling issues may have had an impact there.

That being said, NE attendance probably isn't a big issue, sadly. The team is perhaps largely a tax-writeoff, in a successful NFL stadium with the same ownership. Columbus could perhaps be a bigger problem. However, we shall see how attendance develops with better weather in the summer.

And as always, not sure how believable & consistent any of those attendance numbers are.

bgnewf
06-16-2011, 02:12 PM
TFC Draw at New England

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/06/tfc-draw-at-new-england/

In this video blog episode I take a look back at the somewhat encouraging string of road draws TFC has recently been on, culminating in Wednesday's tie versus the New England Revolution in front of what was probably one of the smallest crowds in MLS history. I throw kudos towards youngster Donnell Henry and to goalkeeping stalwart Stefan Frei and I speak to the significantly different offensive look the Reds have with a real number nine like Alan Gordon in the lineup.

I also try and address what were on the surface some weird tactical substitutions on the part of Coach Aron Winter.

Your comments are always welcome and appreciated.

PopePouri
06-16-2011, 02:21 PM
NE attendance last night, when their local team is in game 7 of the Stanley Cup, is totally irrelevant. Totally nuts that the league didn't allow the game to be rescheduled, when both teams apparently asked for it.

However: http://mjpurpleaces.blogspot.com/2011/05/portland-leads-week-8-attendance-in-mls.html

Both NE & Columbus average attendance have dropped significantly this year and are now around the lowest of the league. (San Jose with it's small stadium doesn't really compare.) Perhaps partly the result of early-season home games & bad weather?? Chicago has also dropped over 2000 on average. In NY & Philly, the shiny newness may have worn off a bit, with drops of over 1000 (plus weather impact?). Also some surprising increases, like DCU (??), Dallas (??), & LA. I haven't checked what local or scheduling issues may have had an impact there.

That being said, NE attendance probably isn't a big issue, sadly. The team is perhaps largely a tax-writeoff, in a successful NFL stadium with the same ownership. Columbus could perhaps be a bigger problem. However, we shall see how attendance develops with better weather in the summer.

And as always, not sure how believable & consistent any of those attendance numbers are.

Columbus is the new Dallas it seems.

Roogsy
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
Wow, pleasantly surprised that everyone ignored the massive wet blanket on page 2 of this thread.

Getting 2 points in 4 days on the road is not a bad result by any means. Sure we lacked finish but the effort was there tonight, and the midfield did not look too bad.


Everyone except you! :lol:

There is a common theme in this thread.

http://jiveturkey.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/lowered-expectations.jpg

So now you've forced me to respond. My rantings these past few months have been for a reason. Dig a ditch at home and you have to dig yourself out on the road. TFC dropping so many points at home means they no longer have the luxury of picking up a point on the road. We needed to do better these first few months because our schedule shows the next few months going forward show there to be much fewer games and most of them on the road. Against a top team like LA? Sure, a draw is a good result. Against a bottom-feeder like NE? That's not as good a result nor did they play anywhere near as good as they did against LA. When a top tier EPL team goes into Stanford bridge and gets a draw, that's considered successful, but when they go into Wigan and get the same result, it's considered a disappointment. A point on the road is not always a good thing. When you've screwed the pooch at home, you have to start picking up wins on the road. This was one of those games that TFC needed to win not draw or heaven forbid lose (and they almost did). When you've put yourself in a position where you have to win on the road, then this is one of those games where the team had to come through with more than a draw.

Essentially, if you're happy with this draw then you will be happy with draws on the road for the rest of the season and if that is the case, we will be on track to put up around 32 or 33 points for the entire season. And people are happy about this? I cannot think of anything more apt than "lowered expectations" to describe such sentiments.

Oh and there is another explanation for the lack of responses after this game (whether they be negative or positive) and that is with the poor play and the even lower probabilities after every game that TFC will make the playoffs, people are beginning to pay attention elsewhere. That is not a good thing.

profit89
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
Road Warriors. Gutsy performances last 2 games.

rocker
06-16-2011, 04:30 PM
Road Warriors. Gutsy performances last 2 games.

+1....

rocker
06-16-2011, 04:34 PM
Viewed as just a single game, without looking to the past or to the future, TFC played well enough and getting a road point is a solid result.

Viewed within the context of the past 4 seasons... or the nature of the schedule so far etc, then ya, the result doesn't seem that great. But I prefer to judge the specific match on its own merits, unclouded by the past or the future. If we go and tie all our remaining road games and win more at home, we're in the playoffs. The big thing now is to take these kinds of road performances home and do business at home.

I find it amusing how NE gets knocked down on here as an opponent ("well, we should beat them at their home field") when it's convenient, and then praised as an example we have to follow in other threads ("NE is a good team, Nicol is a great coach, wish we had Shalrie Joseph!").

ExiledRed
06-16-2011, 05:17 PM
A+. Debbie Downer and the Bringdown Bunch are playing to smaller and smaller crowds these days (just like the Revs).

This is ironic.

We just scored tied 2-2 and 0-0 on the road and snagged 2 points.

Definitely an improvement on 6-2, but I'd save the victory roll until were consistent, and by that I dont mean 'draw specialists'

bgnewf
06-16-2011, 05:57 PM
I understand where Roogsy et.al. are coming from and I understand the sentiment. It is hard to get up and enthused about almost anything about this club considering the overall results dating back now five seasons.

But with due respect is it not just a bit early to completely write off this season? In a couple of weeks TFC will have a chance to secure silverware versus Vancouver with an away goal in their back pocket. If they win then they have a real chance again of getting to the group stages of CONCACAF, which is not something to sneeze at.

And on a relatively micro not macro perspective the last two results overall are in my humble opinion good ones that will look even better if they can secure a result against Seattle on Saturday.

Believe me I get the angst, but it is just a bit too early to completely pack it in just yet.

torontocelt
06-16-2011, 06:38 PM
I understand where Roogsy et.al. are coming from and I understand the sentiment. It is hard to get up and enthused about almost anything about this club considering the overall results dating back now five seasons.

But with due respect is it not just a bit early to completely write off this season? In a couple of weeks TFC will have a chance to secure silverware versus Vancouver with an away goal in their back pocket. If they win then they have a real chance again of getting to the group stages of CONCACAF, which is not something to sneeze at.

And on a relatively micro not macro perspective the last two results overall are in my humble opinion good ones that will look even better if they can secure a result against Seattle on Saturday.

Believe me I get the angst, but it is just a bit too early to completely pack it in just yet.

i get what you are saying but if success in our season is winning two games, one against Edmonton and one against Vancouver who have only just joined the MLS then Christ our expectations of the club are low. The Canadian Cup is with all due respect a joke. Only having three teams, now four, it really shouldn't be seen as any kind of major accomplishment to win it. The Champions league is a big bonus for the club to get for winning such a poor cup competition, we are extremely lucky that potentially winning two games can have such high rewards, not that many of the TFC fans care though as our previous attendances in the competition proved.

mw83krk
06-16-2011, 07:22 PM
are we seriously talking about playoffs?

a team that has won 2 games out of 16 games played has no business making the playoffs.

with that said, I'll be driving in Saturday with the wife from Niagara Falls as usual to give our support. go team!

MartinUtd
06-16-2011, 07:33 PM
torontocelt, don't think of the Cup as the prize yet (it'll start to have meaning when there's 5-6 teams) but think about getting those CONCACAF games. For me, I would call a successful season either MLS playoffs or the knockout stages in Champions League.

A win seemed very possible (hence the disappointment) but the problem is that we're terrible in the final third. Unless something changes like a new player or somebody in the midfield steps up then we won't be able to close out games. Our record can still look a lot better with back to back wins. Anything can happen in this league.

Roogsy
06-16-2011, 07:55 PM
I find it amusing how NE gets knocked down on here as an opponent ("well, we should beat them at their home field") when it's convenient, and then praised as an example we have to follow in other threads ("NE is a good team, Nicol is a great coach, wish we had Shalrie Joseph!").

I have never seen New England praised as an "example" team. Praise to Nicol and Joseph? Sure. But New England's cheapness has been their achilles heel and I for one don't agree with how they run their club. So I am quite sure you are not referring to me, even though I have praised both Nicol and Joseph. In fact, one of the points I have made about Nicol is the desire to see how he does with more ambitious owners.

And I would be perfectly happy with a NE draw whether or not they are a good or bad team if TFC had not been dropping so many points at home. But now, they are under pressure on the road to get more points out of their own doing. Or are you aware of some other form of magical math that gets this team more points even though they have less home games than they do on the road?

FYI, our chances of making the playoffs dropped from 3.4% to 3.2% because of that "super fantastic" draw yesterday. That speaks volumes about how good that draw was more than all the optmisim you can muster.

Redpunkfiddle
06-16-2011, 08:06 PM
]are we seriously talking about playoffs?[/SIZE]

a team that has won 2 games out of 16 games played has no business making the playoffs.

with that said, I'll be driving in Saturday with the wife from Niagara Falls as usual to give our support. go team!

Must... resist... urge.... to...default to obvious Youtube link

Dave67
06-16-2011, 08:09 PM
Roogsy you don't seem to add any value to the fact that TFC travelled coast to coast and pulled off a draw in NE. I know we've dropped too many points at home, the Chicago comeback tie at home may still bite us on the ass, but this team is not as far out of the playoffs as it seems. There's still time folks. We need a solid August & September. That could be all it takes. http://www.settingthetable.info/home/

Also I think the playoff odds calculator is off. I suspect it's meant to be 30%. No way the odds are 3%. I'll take the bet if that's the case. And before you ask, look at the graph, it's clearly around 30 or 32% not 3%. http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html

Roogsy
06-16-2011, 08:35 PM
I beg to differ about my adding value. I have repeatedly said that getting a point on the road is usually a satisfactory result. However, in this case, it simply is not enough, because TFC have put themselves in this dire situation. As for the coast-to-coast argument, every team in MLS has to deal with that and the standings could care less if you take points at home, in the city down the interstate or in a city 3000miles away.

As for the probabilities, if his TFC number is wrong then the whole graph is incorrect as the methodology is surely applied to all teams. It does seem somewhat of a preciptious drop between 20% and the lower 3 teams however they are underwhelmingly poor this season and TFC has played more games than almost anyone in MLS save for a couple of teams and yet still finds themselves near the bottom so it is possible the methodology is not wrong. It would be strange if TFC's chances would be better than teams ahead of them in the standings or with more games in hand though.

ag futbol
06-16-2011, 08:58 PM
Hypothetically there are enough games left to salvage the season but realistically (based on past performance) our goose is cooked. Sure, we could catch fire based on some savvy transfers in the summer window but I'm not holding my breath. Every other team will be trying to do the same, keep in mind.

123 elite
06-16-2011, 09:01 PM
i tend to agree with Roogsey and torontocelt on this. There is no-one to fear at any MLS stadium. Quite why any team has to have a different approach to a game because it is not your patch of grass is beyond me. Its not like they are playing the Nou with 90000 fans screaming at you. And even if that were the case they aren't going to influence anything. The game last night was pretty much the same old thing. poor passing, poor distribution and poor finishing from both teams. No change. I saw Gordon charge out of defence with the ball all serious and head down and was so easily dispossessed it was embarrassing.
unless you appraoch all games with the idea you can win then you aren't going to be successful in the long run. So why settle for 2 out of 6 as a fan. Philly and DC have given us the kind of spanking at home that we have never shown any sign of doing to anyone in 5 years. And thats just not good enough.

Dave67
06-16-2011, 09:02 PM
The numbers are way off at 3%. It's 30%. Find me anywhere that will take my bet at 3% and I'll go wild.

Roogsy
06-16-2011, 09:13 PM
The numbers are way off at 3%. It's 30%. Find me anywhere that will take my bet at 3% and I'll go wild.


I said that if his TFC number is wrong then so is the rest of the graph. Unless we know how he is calculating his probabilities, I can't speak to the accuracy of "3%". What isn't wrong is TFC's lower probabilities of making the playoffs than most other teams. Big picture.

And like 123 Elite said, why is it that teams can come into BMO Field and spank us but we don't go to their house and spank them? If there was a night to do it, last night was it. They had all of 3 people in the stands and were playing like a Beer League team and we couldn't score on them. And that is a positive?

Shakes McQueen
06-16-2011, 09:21 PM
I agree with Roogsy and ag that playoffs are probably out of the question for this team, whatever the maths say right now.

Though as I've said a bunch of times, this season, for me, isn't necessarily about success in the final standings. It's about trying to judge the development and acquisition of this team's short term and long term future. I'm trying to be a Zen Master this year.

I won't expand further, lest we go down that rabbit hole of debate again, haha.

- Scott

Dave67
06-16-2011, 10:31 PM
I give up on you. Give Winter & Co until a week after the transfer window closes. Then you can all be doom & gloom for the rest of the season. For me, I'm going with the everything is fine route. Baseless, pointless, factless, whatever. We have more good on this team than bad.

brad
06-16-2011, 10:42 PM
Though as I've said a bunch of times, this season, for me, isn't necessarily about success in the final standings.

I'm still judging based on making the playoffs this year, only because Winter said at the start of the season that that was a goal for this season. If he fails to deliver on that goal, that shakes my faith in his ability to deliver on his other goals.

Blizzard
06-17-2011, 02:05 AM
The numbers are way off at 3%. It's 30%. Find me anywhere that will take my bet at 3% and I'll go wild.

Just remember that the site in question is totally mathematical and is based on past results. It is not a prediction site. If the team goes on a run and another couple of team that have done well thus far dip in form, the odds will change dramatically.

I'm sure it probably is 3% right now but I'm not giving up on my team and have some optimism regarding new players joining the club and some current players improving.

Does that mean that I believe that the club will definitely make the play-offs? No but I expect to see a side that will make a good run at a spot.

In other words, for me, the glass is half full.

torontocelt
06-17-2011, 05:23 AM
I'm still judging based on making the playoffs this year, only because Winter said at the start of the season that that was a goal for this season. If he fails to deliver on that goal, that shakes my faith in his ability to deliver on his other goals.

Me too Brad, Winter obviously felt despite the changes that he could do it even if others were willing to write the season off before a ball had even been kicked. If Winter doesn't make it or even come close in a year where has been given even more of a chance to make the play offs with the extra places then that would be a terrible for me. He already got a second chance in the Canadian Cup, again if he fails to take us to the Champions league when he only needs to beat Edmonton (terrible team) and Vancouver (new to MLS, lost manager etc) then that would be a disaster.

torontocelt
06-17-2011, 05:27 AM
We are not even averaging one point per game, that is shite by anyone's standards.

Shakes McQueen
06-17-2011, 05:32 AM
I'm still judging based on making the playoffs this year, only because Winter said at the start of the season that that was a goal for this season. If he fails to deliver on that goal, that shakes my faith in his ability to deliver on his other goals.

Saying that making the playoffs was the "goal" is a far cry from a guarantee though. In fact, it's a pretty meek bar to set, if you really think about it. And everything Winter & Co. have said since then, has been about how the process is still ongoing.

That might just be a convenient shifting of the goalposts, but "playoffs is the goal" is pretty much the default mission statement of any team. It's not common for GM's to openly admit that the year is probably going to be a wash, because they still have financial considerations, like selling tickets.

- Scott

Ossington Mental Youth
06-17-2011, 05:59 AM
I'm still judging based on making the playoffs this year, only because Winter said at the start of the season that that was a goal for this season. If he fails to deliver on that goal, that shakes my faith in his ability to deliver on his other goals.

I will be shocked if we make the playoffs this year. Im still feeling positive about the team

Fishnicker
06-17-2011, 06:05 AM
Just remember that the site in question is totally mathematical and is based on past results. It is not a prediction site. If the team goes on a run and another couple of team that have done well thus far dip in form, the odds will change dramatically.


Yup. If you click on the 50/50 link (all remaining games in the sim get an even chance to win) the odds go to 19%. It all depends on past results, and this being MLS, things can change dramatically.

That being said, we're still in the shits.

Oldtimer
06-17-2011, 07:29 AM
Last year, early in the season, that site said the Jays had a 95% chance of making the playoffs. We know how that turned out.

I wouldn't put much stock in his algorithms.

For MLS, it seems more accurate late in the season, like from September on.

That being said, it would take a run like RSL's at the end of 2009 to make the playoffs. Possible, but not too likely, and would probably depend on other results being highly favourable. I'm not budgeting for playoff tickets at all this year.

mightydrm
06-17-2011, 07:51 AM
Maybe playoffs are unlikely, but the point for me is that the team is improving, after a horrible start, despite a very bad run of injuries and a very busy and tough schedule, especially for a team with injuries. In the past, we would have lost the NE game. Something is going right - the players seem to have more confidence and trust in each other. Now it's time to make BMO a fortress again. And we can start as fans by showing up on time!

Beach_Red
06-17-2011, 08:18 AM
Saying that making the playoffs was the "goal" is a far cry from a guarantee though. In fact, it's a pretty meek bar to set, if you really think about it. And everything Winter & Co. have said since then, has been about how the process is still ongoing.

That might just be a convenient shifting of the goalposts, but "playoffs is the goal" is pretty much the default mission statement of any team. It's not common for GM's to openly admit that the year is probably going to be a wash, because they still have financial considerations, like selling tickets.

- Scott

Exactly. And it's much better for a GM to pay lip service to "making the playoffs" instead of making those panicky moves to scramble for a few more points and take the team completely off course. We've had enough of that with this team.