Is Julian de Guzman Leaving TFC?

[bgnewf]

Is Julian de Guzman Leaving TFC?

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/06/is-de-guzman-leaving/

Rumours swirl about the immediate future of Julian de Guzman with Toronto FC. Why I think it might be the right time for him and TFC to part ways.

[Belfast_Boy]

I hope so!

[phonzo]

dear god yes

[TFC OZZ]

"Julian is not a goal scorer and I think most TFC supporters understand that"

Don't really agree with that to be honest. When he arrived I think plenty of people expected him to/and still expect him to score goals as a designated player. I am definitely a supporter of DeGuzman, and I think he fits into the team. His price-tag is the issue based on the performances I've seen, and to be honest I'm not going to blame TFC management for signing him. Plenty of people wanted him here, and expected him to perform well in this league. He's performed well, just not well enough to earn a Designated Player's salary. I think that sentiment holds true with many other supporters. If the released/traded him, I wouldn't be too shocked or hurt. What upsets me is the fact that we traded a cheaper player in Carl Robinson in what I recall as an almost direct result of acquiring DeGuz (correct me if I'm wrong).

[Wull]

This better not be a cruel joke!

[mastermixer]

Carl Robinson was making over $300k with TFC so it was not a significant salary difference. However, he seemed to be much more of a leader on the pitch than DeGuz ever was.

[bgnewf]

This better not be a cruel joke!

CSN said on the Extra Time portion of their "Its Called Football" broadcast that they are hearing multiple rumours. Take it for what it is worth.

[Azerban]

"Julian is not a goal scorer and I think most TFC supporters understand that"

Don't really agree with that to be honest. When he arrived I think plenty of people expected him to/and still expect him to score goals as a designated player.

I expect someone of his talent to hit the fucking target when he has the opportunity. He's not a goal scorer, but his shots are ridiculous spastic flailings, a spectacle that we would tie someone like Peterson or Sturgis to the tracks over. Every single time JDG winds up, I've written the play off as a goal kick, and I am right 100% of the time.

[Shep]

I never expected goals from him, but I did expect him to shine - instead he seems sometimes above average and that's all, to me anyway.

[Yohan]

probably best think JDG could do for TFC. although it's like 170k in cap relief

[leafsman]

I hope they would use the money on someone else not just get rid of him and get another DP to replace him and still only have 1

[bigtfcfan]

this would be best for TFC, JDG, and CMNT.

[dupont]

It might be for the best. I actually think he's a great player but I think TFC isn't where he shines.

[MartinUtd]

Are we still paying in part for Robo? See where I'm going with this...?

[Mikey]

Who the hell is going to take him back in europe after watching his match tapes from over here...?

[TFC07]

When does JDG contract end?

I think JDG's career might be done thanks to his knee injury.

[TFC/Everton]

You can bet that JDG will be giving 100% during the Gold Cup to prove he can still play.

[denime]

You can bet that JDG will be giving 100% during the Gold Cup to prove he can still play.

He wasn't even on the bench vs USA! He must 1st make at team in order to prove anything.

[Dave67]

I expect someone of his talent to hit the fucking target when he has the opportunity. He's not a goal scorer, but his shots are ridiculous spastic flailings, a spectacle that we would tie someone like Peterson or Sturgis to the tracks over. Every single time JDG winds up, I've written the play off as a goal kick, and I am right 100% of the time.

Yep +1

[craigtfc]

I thought he already left TFC I haven't seen him all season

[kodiakTFC]

This is best for all parties involved. I hope its true.

[Stryker]

this would be best for TFC, JDG, and CMNT.
Only best for JDG if he plans on retiring. Who the hell would ever want him after the way he played here?

[swan]

yeah doesn't make sense to me why he would want it for that reason ^ so i think it's not true

[bgnewf]

yeah doesn't make sense to me why he would want it for that reason ^ so i think it's not true

And what if that was the actual case? What if he missed the lifestyle and weather and lack of scrutiny by being a retired footballer raising a family in Spain?

[swan]

could be..

[ginkster88]

And what if that was the actual case? What if he missed the lifestyle and weather and lack of scrutiny by being a retired footballer raising a family in Spain?

I can't take you seriously if you think that JDG is under any degree of scrutiny in Canada.

[bgnewf]

I can't take you seriously if you think that JDG is under any degree of scrutiny in Canada.

He is under scrutiny by TFC fans ginkster. And deservedly so.

[jazzy]

I expect someone of his talent to hit the fucking target when he has the opportunity. He's not a goal scorer, but his shots are ridiculous spastic flailings, a spectacle that we would tie someone like Peterson or Sturgis to the tracks over. Every single time JDG winds up, I've written the play off as a goal kick, and I am right 100% of the time.

unfortunately....and despite his skill, he does get roughed up, also a problem

[Suds]

I was one of the people who was excited to hear JDG was coming to TFC a few years ago. But let's face it, it has not worked out for either party. The reasons why will be debated at length but it does not matter. Sooner or later it needs to be decided what was thought to be a good plan is just not working and it's time for a change.

Unless Winter & Co. are looking to build this team around him it would make sense to part ways, be it in time for him to look for work in Europe next season or at the end of the MLS season.

[ginkster88]

He is under scrutiny by TFC fans ginkster. And deservedly so.

You can live in Toronto and not be scrutinized by TFC fans. There aren't that many of us... and most of us don't care!

[J .]

JDG was hurt against USA, thus not dressed.

That said JDG was never going to be the players though he was here. I never thought he would be a good fit and Im sad my prophecy back when he was signed came true. He has lost confidence, skills have diminished and lost what was a growing fan base coming to TFC.

He had everything to lose and a few dollars to gain. Should have stayed in Spain at a cheaper price.

[drexel10]

You can live in Toronto and not be scrutinized by TFC fans. There aren't that many of us... and most of us don't care!

Maybe not many fans, but apparently has received threats. He laughed them off, saying that at least people care here just like in Europe.

[Heathen]

I for one do think he can be criticized for lack of goals, we're not talking 10 a season here, he hasn't even got 1! Compared to other DMs in the MLS his offensiveness in the league has been awful, it's strange considering he averages one every 11 games for the CMNT.

[Roogsy]

It is sad that it has come down to this for a dedicated Canadian national.

He is not a good fit for TFC, but I for one will not celebrate if he leaves.

[Cashcleaner]

I never expected goals from him, but I did expect him to shine - instead he seems sometimes above average and that's all, to me anyway.

This is probably the best assessment a person can make of de Guzman. Nobody should have expected he was going to pack away the goals, simply because he's not a striker, but a supportive defensive mid. However, in that capacity alone as you pointed out, he earns his pay only occasionally. I certainly think we can do better for the money we are paying for him.

However,

Again I have to ask the question - Is Julian simply leaving for a chance to play in Europe again and the club is willing to accommodate his wish with no hard feelings? Or is this a case of a breakdown in the relationship between a club and player?

Personally, I haven't heard or seen any evidence that suggests de Guzman and the club have had a falling out so I'm going to believe that if the rumour is true, both parties will likely negotiate toward a mutually beneficial goal in good faith. But as always, this is all speculative as the rumour is still unconfirmed.

[Roogsy]

Considering the harsh words Winter had about JDG the last couple of games, I would say the interest from TFC to do without his services is at least enough for fans to think this rumour is at least possible.

[Cashcleaner]

Harsh words? I dunno, that sounds a bit...well...harsh.

I know Winter thinks he could be doing more, but I haven't seen the same sort of shenanigans that went on with, say DeRo and the club. That's why I don't think we're seeing a "rift" here between him and TFC, but the scenario you mention is entirely plausible (ie: he's not living up to his pay grade and the club thinks they can bring in someone who does).

[andyc]

If it becomes clear that JDG has shown a lack of loyalty to the badge, is he dead to all the previous Dero haters?

Just wondering where the line is???

[Couchy81]

It's hard to judge his ability to perform as a defensive mid on a team that has had so-so defence at best since he's been here. He's not a goal scorer, so his numbers won't pop like a DeRo, so basically he just joined at the wrong time. However, I can say that I've not seen him live up to his supposed skill level either for more than half the games he's played. Julian DeSnuzman. *sigh*

[king dave]

That little twat can fuck off back to Europe and play for a 3rd tier team if he's fortunate to land one.
I am Canadian too and I have more talent in my left fucking nut than that fucking fuck!
Goodfuckingbye.
KD.

[Roogsy]

I am actually surprised at the level of animosity here towards JDG.

I have always thought that fans would at least appreciate effort. And while I am not a huge fan of JDG, nor have I ever thought that his signing was a good one for TFC (from the start, I said he was a bad choice for a DP), I would still thank a player who tried his best for us and represented our city (and country remember) as best he could.

And I will be disappointed his stay here wasn't a more successful one. Who knows? Given different management, and different choices from the organization, maybe he could have been more successful. Lord knows I won't place the full blame of his underperformance on him alone. There is some logic in the argument that his success in Europe was no fluke.

I am beginning to question my involvement with other supporters though that shit on the players that do all the heavy lifting for this team but support management that do everything in their power to fuck up a good thing.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

He was a crap fit for the team playing at position which made it difficult for people to appreciate his calibre. Was he a hard grafter? Hard to say. I wish all the best.

[SilverSamurai]

JDG was hurt against USA, thus not dressed.

That said JDG was never going to be the players though he was here. I never thought he would be a good fit and Im sad my prophecy back when he was signed came true. He has lost confidence, skills have diminished and lost what was a growing fan base coming to TFC.

He had everything to lose and a few dollars to gain. Should have stayed in Spain at a cheaper price.
You also have to consider WHY he left Spain. He spoke up about unpaid wages. If memory serves me right, it was in the $1million range. Wouldn't you speak up if it was that much? Or even 1/4 of the amount?

Because he spoke out, he got black listed in a sense.

I'm a JDG fan but with the exception of a few glimpses he's not been overly effective here sadly. I think he's the type of player that needs to play with "good" players. How many times have his passes resulted in turnovers because his team mates can't read/have footy IQ. Let's be honest, the squad a La Coruna is light years ahead of what we have here.
Good player, bad fit.

Now watch him tear up the Gold Cup for the CMNT. lol

I still for 1 can't understand WHY there's no other DP here. It's not as if having JDG was really hurting the cap at all... but I don't really understand the MLS rules.. lol

[los sonadores]

Hilarious. Everyone wants him gone and then when it might happen, they carry one like spurned lovers (well, in King Dave's case, a drunk asshole of a spurned lover).

I don't think he was ever a good fit for MLS, especially on a squad so meagre of talent. The club probably shouldn't add a DP in his place (if he is gone) until they know what the hell they are doing on the pitch... which is not yet.

[ilikemusic]

The sooner JDG is gone the better. Not that it is a meant as a slight to his ability, but as was clear from day -1, this was a horribly misguided move on both parts. TFC has gained no appreciable benefit from JDG's presence on the squad, and JDG's reputation as a professional footballer can (fairly or unfairly) only have been negatively affected by his time with TFC. A DP has to do more than JDG can, otherwise he is just a waste of money at best, and a disruptive presence in the locker room at worst. Designated players need to make the players around them better; it is not intended to work the other way around.

Im not saying JDG is bad. I think he generally plays great for Canada, but he is just an unbelievably horrible fit for Toronto FC.

And maybe once JDG is gone we can bring back DeRo! :D

[TFCRegina]

I am actually surprised at the level of animosity here towards JDG.

I have always thought that fans would at least appreciate effort. And while I am not a huge fan of JDG, nor have I ever thought that his signing was a good one for TFC (from the start, I said he was a bad choice for a DP), I would still thank a player who tried his best for us and represented our city (and country remember) as best he could.

And I will be disappointed his stay here wasn't a more successful one. Who knows? Given different management, and different choices from the organization, maybe he could have been more successful. Lord knows I won't place the full blame of his underperformance on him alone. There is some logic in the argument that his success in Europe was no fluke.

I am beginning to question my involvement with other supporters though that shit on the players that do all the heavy lifting for this team but support management that do everything in their power to fuck up a good thing.

Initially I thought JDG would bring immeasurable improvement to the Toronto midfield and it became clear over the last two seasons how wrong I was.

I can't say JDG isn't talented. I'll never say that and I agree maybe it could have been different had he been brought in in different circumstances. The way JDG was brought in was a real problem...IE: The Dichio Situation and it led to an inauspicious start for an inauspicious time here. But that's all it was, was a start. The real problem for me was that JDG looked like he wanted to be somewhere else the whole time he's been here and that's where I've been pretty pissy towards him as of late. As you've said, the club hasn't given much to play for but still, other players have played here and put in a decent effort despite problems with the FO.

If JDG terminates, and TFC agrees, I won't blame either side. JDG just hasn't worked out for us (and it seems he's that way with the Nats now too -sadly) and JDG might still have a career elsewhere. I can't wish him anything but luck.

[jonn seagull]

everything's been said, however, jdg and dero are 2 of the best players canada have ever produced. it suprises me how many piss on them. i can pee on 'the whore' and maybe ass-smear, but, i will never do it on dero or jdg. jdg will flourish elsewhere, like a flower with lots of fertilizer. tfc has no fertilizer.

[CSO_BBTB]

No player should ever get a blank cheque from the fans based solely on their nationality. If Julian De Guzman was as good as some of the more hardcore CMNT supporter types seem to think he is, he would have looked like a dominant player in an MLS context regardless of who was playing around him. He hasn't simple as that and that has to call into question whether he is actually as good as he has been hyped up to be. JDG was handed a chance to be a hometown hero and blew it big time. Now it's time for TFC to use the DP rule to bring in a player who actually deserves a seven figure salary and who can make a genuine difference to the team's level of play in much the same way Angel did for RBNY or Schelotto did with the Crew.

[Shakes McQueen]

I expect someone of his talent to hit the fucking target when he has the opportunity. He's not a goal scorer, but his shots are ridiculous spastic flailings, a spectacle that we would tie someone like Peterson or Sturgis to the tracks over. Every single time JDG winds up, I've written the play off as a goal kick, and I am right 100% of the time.

Yeah, as a central defensive midfielder I don't expect him to be "a goalscorer", but when he gets his chances, I expect a lot more than what we've gotten. Every JDG shot on goal ends up being a satellite launch.

Considering he has put in time as an attacking midfielder for Canada, and played reasonably well, I expected a lot more from him in his offensive looks.

I don't hate him or anything, but his time here has been inconsistent and disappointing. Right from the start, any happiness from the fanbase was tempered by knowing that JDG didn't really want to come to TFC. And he played that way for a long time.

- Scott

[Shakes McQueen]

It is sad that it has come down to this for a dedicated Canadian national.

He is not a good fit for TFC, but I for one will not celebrate if he leaves.

I won't celebrate, but I won't be unhappy.

If he leaves, I hope he manages to get a gig in upper tier football again, and I hope he represents Canada well on the world stage again.

There's a Louis C.K. bit where he points out that "no good marriage has ever ended in divorce". I think that's the case here. Divorce is never something to celebrate, but at the same time, I don't think the TFC-JDG marriage is a good one.

[Yeoman]

there's rumours? first i heard *shrug*

[Shep]

everything's been said, however, jdg and dero are 2 of the best players canada have ever produced. it suprises me how many piss on them. i can pee on 'the whore' and maybe ass-smear, but, i will never do it on dero or jdg. jdg will flourish elsewhere, like a flower with lots of fertilizer. tfc has no fertilizer.

I can't totally agree with you on JDG being one of the top Canadians, but I'm only going on the performances I've seen live.

As far as TFC not having the fertilizer... couldn't disagree more!!
TFC is full of manure!

;)

[Suds]

I am actually surprised at the level of animosity here towards JDG.

I have always thought that fans would at least appreciate effort. And while I am not a huge fan of JDG, nor have I ever thought that his signing was a good one for TFC (from the start, I said he was a bad choice for a DP), I would still thank a player who tried his best for us and represented our city (and country remember) as best he could.

And I will be disappointed his stay here wasn't a more successful one. Who knows? Given different management, and different choices from the organization, maybe he could have been more successful. Lord knows I won't place the full blame of his underperformance on him alone. There is some logic in the argument that his success in Europe was no fluke.

I am beginning to question my involvement with other supporters though that shit on the players that do all the heavy lifting for this team but support management that do everything in their power to fuck up a good thing.


I'm with you on that, Roogsy. I understand people being frustrated, but animosity? That I don't get.



Before this thread take a crazy turn, let's all remember this is just a rumour that has not been verified in any way at this point. Secondly, while JDG may not have panned out in many peoples eyes, I'll submit the guy has been nothing short of professional. I do not recall him being negative towards the club, the city, or the players. (and that does not include calling players out because that's normal in sports)

It may be clear to JDG that the move to the MLS has not worked out the way he liked. (me speculating) Or it could be that TFC is thinking this. (again, me speculating)

This happens all the time and when the parties decide a change may be in the best interest for all they move on. So, if there is any validity at all to this rumour let's not jump the gun and make a pariah out of another guy.

[Pookie]

Quite honestly, Winter/Mariner showed big balls in ridding the team of DeRo and his sideshow.

If they don't address the JDG situation with the same professionalism and objectivity, it will have the same undermining effect as keeping DeRo would have had.

JDG has simply never lived up to his contract and Winter has indicated that he is unhappy with his performance. At some point, the player runs out of chances and like the divorce analogy, this was a player that absolutely controlled the pitch in previous circumstances. It may be best for him to move on as well.

The MLS experience wasn't one that he actively sought, it was one that he reluctantly accepted. On to better things for both sides.

[Pookie]

bgnewf, good article. Another angle that always puzzled me about JDG was Mo's stated belief that the DP had to be Canadian.

Clearly, we weren't shopping based on team needs on the pitch. We were shopping based on selling merchandise and image.

[Hitcho]

bgnewf, good article. Another angle that always puzzled me about JDG was Mo's stated belief that the DP had to be Canadian.

Clearly, we weren't shopping based on team needs on the pitch. We were shopping based on selling merchandise and image.

Agreed Pookie, and that's a worrying window into how MLSE operates this franchise (because to them that's all it is, not a team, a money spinning franchise).

[Carts]

I expect someone of his talent to hit the fucking target when he has the opportunity. He's not a goal scorer, but his shots are ridiculous spastic flailings, a spectacle that we would tie someone like Peterson or Sturgis to the tracks over. Every single time JDG winds up, I've written the play off as a goal kick, and I am right 100% of the time.

Not quite 100% of the time - last season he miss hit the ball so badly, from the top of the box, it went for a throw in :facepalm:

[ManUtd4ever]

I am actually surprised at the level of animosity here towards JDG.

I have always thought that fans would at least appreciate effort. And while I am not a huge fan of JDG, nor have I ever thought that his signing was a good one for TFC (from the start, I said he was a bad choice for a DP), I would still thank a player who tried his best for us and represented our city (and country remember) as best he could.

And I will be disappointed his stay here wasn't a more successful one. Who knows? Given different management, and different choices from the organization, maybe he could have been more successful. Lord knows I won't place the full blame of his underperformance on him alone. There is some logic in the argument that his success in Europe was no fluke.


Agreed.

[ensco]

No animosity. Just bafflement. (Is that a word?)

JDG was a starter for one of the better teams in Spain. Most of us never saw him play there, but he has to have been terrific at Depor. We did see him on the CMNT, and he was a total CMNT stud for years - just off the top of my head, he dominated that Canada-Jamaica WC qualifier at BMO, and scored that beauty against Brazil in Seattle, right before he came here.

It's truly bizarre. That player vanished the second he arrived at TFC.

Something else has to have been going on, maybe in his personal life.

[Parkdale]

Just bafflement. (Is that a word?)


we understand what you mean, so it's a word.
It's like the 'low key' version of bewilderment.

Personally, I just look at it as a costly experiment that went on too long. IF we didn't have Winter and his 'system' coming in this season, then I would have expected JDG to be released from duties at the end of last season. you really can't ask for a better 2nd chance! In fact, the 2nd chance was catered directly to his style of play and he still managed to underwhelm (that's a word, right?)

[Wagner]

The point is not the grammar, it's the feeling.

[MG42]

we understand what you mean, so it's a word.
It's like the 'low key' version of bewilderment.

Personally, I just look at it as a costly experiment that went on too long. IF we didn't have Winter and his 'system' coming in this season, then I would have expected JDG to be released from duties at the end of last season. you really can't ask for a better 2nd chance! In fact, the 2nd chance was catered directly to his style of play and he still managed to underwhelm (that's a word, right?)

haha nice!

[menefreghista]

Are we still paying in part for Robo? See where I'm going with this...?

No, we aren't playing for him anymore. As far as I can tell the only guys we are paying for that don't play for us are Barrett and De Rosario.

As for De Guzman, the bottom line is that it simply didn't work out. Personally I don't buy the 'no good players to pass to' excuse. Good players improve your team, not stoop down to the level of the other shit players on your team.

Why this happened is anyone's guess. Has he simply lost his abilities? Is his head not into it?

What I do hope is that we have a replacement lined up, unlike when we got rid of De Rosario and have been suffering offensively ever since.

I'm assuming they have to have 1 or 2 DP additions lined up for the summer. I just can't believe that with what we are paying we would have no DP players.

[Wull]

Tim, I'm hoping the rumor isn't a cruel joke not you reporting it, just to clarify.


I am actually surprised at the level of animosity here towards JDG.

I have always thought that fans would at least appreciate effort. And while I am not a huge fan of JDG, nor have I ever thought that his signing was a good one for TFC (from the start, I said he was a bad choice for a DP), I would still thank a player who tried his best for us and represented our city (and country remember) as best he could.

And I will be disappointed his stay here wasn't a more successful one. Who knows? Given different management, and different choices from the organization, maybe he could have been more successful. Lord knows I won't place the full blame of his underperformance on him alone. There is some logic in the argument that his success in Europe was no fluke.

I am beginning to question my involvement with other supporters though that shit on the players that do all the heavy lifting for this team but support management that do everything in their power to fuck up a good thing.

I've never seen a lot of effort from him though Roogs. Before anyone starts, I played DM since I was a kid, most of my club and international teams have had solid to good ones such as Carsley, Wilson, Lambert, McCall, Parkinson, Busquets etc. so can we dispense with the "you must not know what the position entails" dismissal? (that's not aimed at you Roogsy but to the usual suspects)

He's not had the engine I expect, he hasn't read the play in order to cut it out often enough, he's not put in as many tackles, he's not tracked a lot of runs, he's shat out of tackles, he's been caught jogging when he should have been running, he's been benched for breaking curfew, he hasn't tailored his passing to suit the players around him, he hasn't shown for the ball from our back 4 as much as I'd like in the new system and he hasn't taken a clear leadership role in the team.

Not much of that can be put on the FOs that he's played under here for me. It doesn't look like his heart was ever quite in it here. Whether that's because we were his nth choice or his family is still in Spain but if you want to rally me against the FO over a player, I'll do it for Nana but not for Julian

[Parkdale]

Good players improve your team, not stoop down to the level of the other shit players on your team.

rememeber in the first season, when Dichio would get subbed in and EVERYONE on the team stepped it up? I remember on a few occasions where he'd get subbed in and someone (not only him) would score in the next 5 minutes. He was watching the play and knew what would work. He was bringing fresh legs and a motivation to the other players. He could make a difference coming off the bench. Can JDG do those things? Maybe, but HAS he been doing those things? nope

[Cashcleaner]

^ This. So much this.

That's an excellent point, Parky.

[drexel10]

I like JDG and think that he was in excellent form 4 years ago. What has happened? To me it looks like he took the vacation package when he came here. You can't say he has had nobody to play with, because Guevara was more effected by our style of play (that suits his skill set) and yet he would show why he is on a higher level than the rest of the team. I think a good comparision to Julian is Alonzo in Seattle. Julian used to be and should have been that effective in this league. A player that has respect from his peers and is the key nucleus to the squad. Right now, it really doesn't matter if he is playing or not, he doesn't lift this team one bit. Anyways, Tchani is a perfect fit to be a very good DM, as long as he simplifies his ditribution.

[NewCity]

JDG..is garbage. Just using up our cap space. The team can only turn around when they say bye bye to him and re-invest in QUALITY players. This is GREAT News!!! I may keep my seasons after all.

[Blazer]

Is Julian de Guzman Leaving TFC?

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/06/is-de-guzman-leaving/

Rumours swirl about the immediate future of Julian de Guzman with Toronto FC. Why I think it might be the right time for him and TFC to part ways.

Could we be so lucky?

[Whoop]

The point is not the grammar, it's the feeling.

LOL

JDG-TFC just didn't work out.

At the end of the day, sometimes it's best for both parties to move on.

I remember at the beginning of the year thinking if JDG played TFC wouldn't be as bad as they were in Vancouver (he didn't play). And as the season started it looked liked JDG on TFC was better than without him.

But lately, even on the CMNT, whenever JDG is not playing for TFC or is subbed out, the team play improves.

Ultimately it wasn't a good fit.

[Blazer]

I’m still confused as to why/how the collective thought that this guy was good. Comparatively speaking he’s a decent enough national player I suppose, but that’s not saying much from a nation with a less than competitive team on the grand stage.

8 goals in 11 years (265 games) playing professional football is … well, it’s just not something to brag about is what it is. And again, I never understood the excitement he generated other than the fact that he was a Canadian kid coming home to play in North America. So what, big deal. I want talent that’s gonna promote winning. Not a guy who bounced around Europe impressing nobody.

[Beach_Red]

Agreed Pookie, and that's a worrying window into how MLSE operates this franchise (because to them that's all it is, not a team, a money spinning franchise).


Now we'll get to see how much things have changed. The handling of the DP contract is a window into how the team is run, and by whom. At first Johnston said the team was going to sign a DP but then he said the tickets were all sold so they didn't need to. That sounds like something he was told by the accounting department. It's not his money, why would he care about that? He started out, like every other coach this team has had, bad-mouthing Canadian players (we're still hearing about the Canadian players' "sense of entitlement") and then he said it was important to sign a Canadian DP - again, that sounds like something he was told to do.

So the next few weeks will really show us how much things have changed with this team. Things could be about to get a lot better around here.

[Roogsy]

No animosity. Just bafflement. (Is that a word?)

JDG was a starter for one of the better teams in Spain. Most of us never saw him play there, but he has to have been terrific at Depor. We did see him on the CMNT, and he was a total CMNT stud for years - just off the top of my head, he dominated that Canada-Jamaica WC qualifier at BMO, and scored that beauty against Brazil in Seattle, right before he came here.

It's truly bizarre. That player vanished the second he arrived at TFC.

Something else has to have been going on, maybe in his personal life.


His personal life is fine. I simply think it's a matter of not every player fits on every team. How many of us think that you could put the best players on the planet, the Ronaldos and the Messis and TFC would still suck? TFC's problems run deeper than one bad signing, which JDG admittedly is. He is not a star, he is a plugger. He needs better players around him, not worse ones. We needed a player that made bad players around him better. Someone mentioned Danny. I agree. While Danny was never a star in Europe, when he came to Toronto, he elevated the play around him. That's what we needed in a DP and frankly, I don't know if anyone, let alone TFC's inept management, knows how to put a finger on such an intangible as that.

Honestly, if TFC wasn't intending on keeping Robbo here for the long-term, then they should have gone for broke within the league and gone for someone who has proven success in MLS. I would have loved to see Shalrie Joseph here, and despite his expensive MLS contract, it would have cost us less in the long-run. (And he probably would love our looser pot laws...LOL! )

[sulfur]

According to JMo:


Just traded emails with Julian de Guzman's agent. He says rumours of JDG wanting out of #TFC are complete BS. Take that for what it's worth.

JDG's agent: "I speak with Julian on a regular basis and from our conversations he is 100% committed to his contract at TFC."

[OurGame]

According to JMo:



ahhh Hello no shit he is .. Where in bloody hell would he get this type of money now in Europe / no where is my guess ..

once the mlse gravy train is over for him it will be back to europe for min wage maybe ..if he is lucky ..
to leave now would be insane chi ching is the words he hears until Oct

[@PlainEnglish1]

I remember a lot of fans posted on here getting excited when Juelz signed saying he was gonna score and assist and i didn't know if they really watched Juelz play.

Again, Julian is a ball winner and that's what allowed him to play in Spain, Germany etc TFC fans were expecting him to score and be one of the stat leaders when that's not his game.

[Yeoman]

i still remember telling people to hold their breath about JDG, and well guess i was right
sad that i was right

[OurGame]

I remember a lot of fans posted on here getting excited when Juelz signed saying he was gonna score and assist and i didn't know if they really watched Juelz play.

Again, Julian is a ball winner and that's what allowed him to play in Spain, Germany etc TFC fans were expecting him to score and be one of the stat leaders when that's not his game.


Respect !!! that's exactly right .. I am happy for a dedicated Canadian International to be rewarded $$ like he has been ..
he is smart to stay til end of contract ..
The man is a Good Canadian kid ..
TFC just suck as a team altogether ..

MLSE sucks and sniff my ball cheese / jus sayin

[brad]

I remember a lot of fans posted on here getting excited when Juelz signed saying he was gonna score and assist and i didn't know if they really watched Juelz play.

Again, Julian is a ball winner and that's what allowed him to play in Spain, Germany etc TFC fans were expecting him to score and be one of the stat leaders when that's not his game.

While I do agree with this, I think what got some excited was that he did show the ability to do more than this with the CMNT and people were expecting him to bring that.

Of course, there was also a lot of the silly "OMG - he played in Spain, he's totally going to destroy this league".

[ag futbol]

"Julian is not a goal scorer and I think most TFC supporters understand that"

Don't really agree with that to be honest. When he arrived I think plenty of people expected him to/and still expect him to score goals as a designated player. I am definitely a supporter of DeGuzman, and I think he fits into the team. His price-tag is the issue based on the performances I've seen, and to be honest I'm not going to blame TFC management for signing him. Plenty of people wanted him here, and expected him to perform well in this league. He's performed well, just not well enough to earn a Designated Player's salary. I think that sentiment holds true with many other supporters. If the released/traded him, I wouldn't be too shocked or hurt. What upsets me is the fact that we traded a cheaper player in Carl Robinson in what I recall as an almost direct result of acquiring DeGuz (correct me if I'm wrong).
Well with all due respect to you, that is completely misguided. I think you watched the gold cup in 2007 and thought that's what we were going to get on a weekly basis. That's totally not what we should have been expecting.

Julian De Guzman has never been a goal scorer or an offensive catalyst in his club football career. He was known in spain for shooting over the net. While he did have the occasional foray forward and Depor fans generally wanted to see more of him in an attacking role he was never given that responsibility.

The other thing I think people are missing here is that injuries have hampered this guy to the point where he's playing like he's 10 years older than he was 2 years ago. It looks like his legs are leaving him IMO, not pretty.

[torontocelt]

JDG is a fraud, he has not performed to an acceptable standard for a guy on his money. Realistically I reckon he should be on about $200,000 a year, I am basing that on what I have seen of him at TFC. It is a joke that he gets DP money and I hope that we can shift him. Hopefully we can bring in another DP, one who can actually have an impact, one who can help improve the team, one who can make those around him better players, one who who can inspire the fans, I feel that JDG has failed on all of that.

[Auzzy]

Some more from JMo's Twitter:


"If you can recall any of Julian's contracts in the past he has always fulfilled them to the expiration regardless of the situation at...
1 hour ago


"the club (ex. Deportivo). Julian's only priority at this time is to help Canada win the Gold Cup..."
1 hour ago


and make the playoffs with TFC for the 1st time in club history."
1 hour ago

[Yohan]

I quite appreciate what jdg can do, but the problem is that he hasnt produced in tfc uniform. In a no salary cap league, teams can afford to be patient. In mls, teams cant afford the luxury of a player tying up 335k of salary cap in hope that he produces something in the future.

[jloome]

I don't blame DeGuzman for taking the money, but he doesn't have the required intensity for a DM playing this style of football. That's all it is, to me.

Technically, he's our most skilled player outside Stevanovich. But his heart, t me, has never been in being an MLS backline protector. He's a two-way mid used to working in a league where buildup is as important as the break, and that's probably never going to be the case in MLS.

I feel sorry for the guy, somewhat....not really, becuase he has his millions to help keep him happy, but the expectations upon him? I'm not sure anyone as a DM would have worked out as a DP with our rabid fanbase.

[Yohan]

He cant even do a job of a dm well. Mls is just not the right league for him. No offence to jdg but but a good mls dm is joseph and beckerman mold. Jdg may be too technical for mls

[canadian_bhoy]

Good for the payroll, bad for the team.

I can't believe people here are so happy to ship him out. He's easily one of the best players on our team... An we dont have many good ones.

The last thing we need is to lose one of our good players. We need to get rid of our horrible ones like gargan.

TFC supporters gave officially list the plot.

[torontocelt]

Good for the payroll, bad for the team.

I can't believe people here are so happy to ship him out. He's easily one of the best players on our team... An we dont have many good ones.

The last thing we need is to lose one of our good players. We need to get rid of our horrible ones like gargan.

TFC supporters gave officially list the plot.

I think the idea is to get rid of one dud DP and replace him with one who might actually be effective. I just dont see MLSE paying for two DP's for a full season so for me he has to go as surely we can bring in a better DP than JDG?

[Yohan]

Good for the payroll, bad for the team.

I can't believe people here are so happy to ship him out. He's easily one of the best players on our team... An we dont have many good ones.

The last thing we need is to lose one of our good players. We need to get rid of our horrible ones like gargan.

TFC supporters gave officially list the plot.

Nobody is arguing that jdg is a good technical dm. He just isnt the right dm for tfc and mls

[Parkdale]

Of course, there was also a lot of the silly "OMG - he played in Spain, he's totally going to destroy this league".

I believe the technical term is 'tear up'.
:cool:

[Parkdale]

The last thing we need is to lose one of our good players. We need to get rid of our horrible ones like gargan.

TFC supporters gave officially list the plot.


but this thread isn't about Gargan, it's about a JDG rumour.

I'm sure that if people were talking about "who could get cut first" gargan would rank much higher than JDG.

granted, Gargan gets paid something like 08% of what JDG gets, so that's an emotional factor to consider.

[Yohan]

Dan gargan has been more effective for tfc than jdg

[swan]

lol i can't wait to see what people are going to say to that..lol

[Parkdale]

with gargan, we didn't pay much or expect much. We got a mistake prone player who can, on occasion, play his ass off.

with JDG, we expected a game-changer, and paid for it. We got a skilled but inconsistent (or consistently under performing) player, who on occasion, runs.

[TFCRegina]

I believe the technical term is 'tear up'.
:cool:

Or rip a new one.

[Parkdale]

Or rip a new one.


yes, tearing and ripping are both acceptable.

[ensco]

Of course, there was also a lot of the silly "OMG - he played in Spain, he's totally going to destroy this league".

Exactly why is it silly to expect that someone, anyone, who started last year for a top 10 team in La Liga, wouldn't be a huge success in MLS. This "La Liga players are smaller and not as tough" stuff is BS. Players in La Liga may be smaller, but they are way, way more technical, and as tough as anyone here. Plus I thought we're trying to bring that style here.

I mean, come on, we're comparing one of the two best leagues in the world, to maybe the 20th or 40th best.

[OurGame]

That Rumor is total Bullshit anyways ..He aint gonjg anywhere..

T minus a few hours til we talk about how shit they played tonight ..
and how outclassed etc..

TFC blows JDG

[canadian_bhoy]

but this thread isn't about Gargan, it's about a JDG rumour.

I'm sure that if people were talking about "who could get cut first" gargan would rank much higher than JDG.

granted, Gargan gets paid something like 08% of what JDG gets, so that's an emotional factor to consider.

This JDG witch hunt smells like typical leaf fan syndrome. The team is shut, take a prominent player, ride his ass out of town, watch him be successful elsewhere.

[Cashcleaner]

Good for the payroll, bad for the team.

I can't believe people here are so happy to ship him out. He's easily one of the best players on our team... An we dont have many good ones.

The last thing we need is to lose one of our good players. We need to get rid of our horrible ones like gargan.

TFC supporters gave officially list the plot.

Which would be a great point if not for the fact that Gargan is getting a fraction of the salary that JDG is.

Cost / Output = Value

[brad]

Exactly why is it silly to expect that someone, anyone, who started last year for a top 10 team in La Liga, wouldn't be a huge success in MLS. This "La Liga players are smaller and not as tough" stuff is BS. Players in La Liga may be smaller, but they are way, way more technical, and as tough as anyone here. Plus I thought we're trying to bring that style here.

I mean, come on, we're comparing one of the two best leagues in the world, to maybe the 20th or 40th best.

Because success in one team/league does not automatically equate success in another, and De Guzman possesses a skill set (reading the play of highly technical teams) that is not of much use in this league.

Plenty of players have come over that have played in top leagues now to know that that does not equate success on the MLS

[Bars92]

I hope he leaves. Then I can start buying tickets again.

[brad]

This JDG witch hunt smells like typical leaf fan syndrome. The team is shut, take a prominent player, ride his ass out of town, watch him be successful elsewhere.

He hasn't been awful, but he hasn't been good. For any player eating up as much of the limited cap space as he does, that is not good enough. I don't see that as being a witch hunt.

[Beach_Red]

At least now when the team try to sign a DP they can tell him they'll have the same coach for more than a few months.

[Shakes McQueen]

Which would be a great point if not for the fact that Gargan is getting a fraction of the salary that JDG is.

Cost / Output = Value

Yeah, Gargan isn't great, but he is also paid accordingly.

When you pay for an impact player, you need an impact. JDG might be "one of our best players", but that isn't because he's earned that distinction in his time here.

He has been above average by MLS standards, but we aren't paying for a mere above-average MLSer.

- Scott

[KezmanCCCC]

leave de guzman alone... he is doing fairly well this season under winter... and no he is not a goal scorer and no one should expect him to score just because he is a dp... he didnt score in hannover or deportivo (much) so why would we expect him to score with TFC? i hope he stays....

[Bars92]

leave de guzman alone... he is doing fairly well this season under winter... and no he is not a goal scorer and no one should expect him to score just because he is a dp... he didnt score in hannover or deportivo (much) so why would we expect him to score with TFC? i hope he stays....

He is too small a player to be spending that kind of salary in MLS. Not to mention he is gutless..

[Waggy]

To me what it comes down to is this: De Guzman makes good players better. That's why he was valuable in La Liga. It isn't that he's amazingly talented or skilled or fast or anything. He's a good player who is exceptionally good at making other good players play better through good decision making (for the most part) and some solid football IQ. The problem with him here is twofold. One obviously that in the grand scheme of things Toronto FC doesn't HAVE any good players to be made better, and that as a player making the combined total of all other Toronto FC players he is expected to not just be someone who 'makes other people better' but someone who actively contributes, either by scoring or creating goals or directly preventin them. And that's just not him or the role he is best suited to play.

[69Chevy396]

JDG has been a flop. When the team desperately needed goal scoring, they signed a player who hadn't scored a goal in years, never promised to ever score a goal, and ultimately gave us a slightly better than average defensive midfielder on one of the worst teams in mls history. There have been times on the pitch when he made an attempt at goal, and gave us something to remember: a player who had more trouble finding the net than Carl R. I liked Carl, I detest JDG. When he finally leaves nobody will regret or remember him longer than a week or two. Let Deportivo have him back, where he can run around the centre of the field making sweet little passes all day long and nobody here will give a shit. How the fuck did he ever play in La Liga anyway, in my opinion, he is bench worthy even on most mls teams.

[A.J]

Finacially speaking (cap space, DP slot wise), I won't be terribly upset if DeGuz ends up leaving.

But remember that we will also be losing another "face" of the club, ie a Canadian, international, "big name" player. Ever since DeRo's departure JDG has been the closest thing to a star player this franchise has put forth to represent them. I doubt any casual sports fan will be able to name a single player from TFC.
I'd like to see him stay and at least finish out the remainder of the season. If he puts on a good performance after the summer, it'll be enough to bring heads back to the stadium.

I really don't understand why people are so eager to run him out of town. He's been having an okay season, and we have plenty of cap space to keep him on the roster AND bring in a couple of impact players. And it's not like we have vastly superior players lined up to fill his spot, do we?

[DichioTFC]

Gossip confirmed by people within MLS who are very knowledgeable about TFC's situations:

JDG will be gone. Just like DeRo, it won't be a matter of if, but when. The breaking point was in Charleston when both DeRo and JDG intentionally missed the team bus to a practice. Winter and Mariner were trying to instill a new level of discipline in the team and this totally flew in their face. Cann left the team partially due to this event (how it transpired wasn't made clear, but he did leave after this happened so the smoking gun is there).

Anyhoo, Winter and Mariner agreed to get rid of DeRo ASAP for anything. JDG's contract is obviously not as transferable as DeRo's, so he's on his way out at the end of the season unless the team release him (which Mariner - to his credit, thinks is a bad idea).

So yeah, take that for what it's worth. But it was told to me by someone who's close to the situation / MLS and has no reason to make this up - I believe it to be 100% truthful.

[Waggy]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


Whatever happens with JDG is going to be related to JDG's actions on and off the pitch, as well as his relationship with the FO and the FO's beliefs in JDG. If he's released it'll be because of his play and contract size. It won't have anything to do with any other current or former players.

Aside, from what I've seen the team didn't look bad today sans JDG.

[DichioTFC]

That's not how it happened but ok. :thumbsup:

Lol thanks for the clarification, Dwayne.

Anyhoo, point being from my neutral, unbiased MLS insider - JDG is on his way out.

[CSO_BBTB]

The sooner the whole clique of experienced CMNT players with the exagerated sense of entitlement that pretty much had to be signed due to the old roster regulations is moved out the door the better. Best not to have them around influencing the kids coming through from the Academy. Provide the younger players with the right role models and good things will hopefully happen 5 to 10 years from now when today's 16 to 18 year olds are in their early to mid-20s.

[Stryker]

This rumour falling through is even more disappointing then the Del Piero one.
No way on gods green earth that they keep this plug after this season and his inevitable departure is the silver lining no matter how bad it may be.

[DichioTFC]

Um yeah...I heard the story from people (not Dwayne) that were AT camp. Unless you think my sources are only Dwayne? Whatever...believe 3rd party heresay. I will take firsthand accounts over your gossip anyday.

I get it. You know all about Mr. Of The Rosary.

Point of the post was to discuss JDG, not talk about Dwayne or get his *insert your role in DeRo's life here* to defend him. Feel free to troll me privately or on facebook or twitter about how wrong I am.

:topic:

Point of the post - JDG is on his way out.

[Keyman]

I don't believe Roogsy.

[ArmenJBX]

I don't mind de Guzman's departure as long as a suitable replacement is also signed.

[Cashcleaner]

Roogsy, you do understand that for all the rest of us know, you could be just as wrong as you say Nav is. Not like either of you are laying down notarized documents here along with incriminating photos.

[habstfc]

Lol thanks for the clarification, Dwayne.

Anyhoo, point being from my neutral, unbiased MLS insider - JDG is on his way out.

So you are saying he is on his way out after this season? That's not much of a scoop, isn't that when his contract ends?

[DichioTFC]

I should have known that your info is indisputable because it was told to you on twitter. After all, everything on the internet is true!

How did you ascertain this, exactly? It was told to me recently, in person, by someone who works for MLS who was in Charleston at the time that it happened.

Head. Out of ass. Please and thank you.

:topic:


I don't disagree that JDG is one his way out.

I don't disagree with your non-disagreement, as well.

[DichioTFC]

So you are saying he is on his way out after this season? That's not much of a scoop, isn't that when his contract ends?

Not saying it was much of a scoop, just saying what the catalyst was behind his impending departure.

[Cashcleaner]

I get the feeling that is exactly what is necessary for people to believe things around here.

Suffice to say, I heard it from playerS first-hand and Nav did not. So which is more believable? No wonder I've decided not to share stuff on here anymore. It's better to run around arguing about baseless rumours than it is to get any sort of verification.

Roogsy. Ugh. You're making my head hurt. Again, all we're given is your word that you heard it from players. You have no more evidence to give us than he did to support your claim.

Your argument essentially boils down to: Nav's info is incorrect and mine is right because I say his is incorrect and mine is right.

I'm not even doubting your side of the story, I'm just saying that the two of you are on equal levels when it comes to the credibility of your posts because all you're asking is for us to take your word over his (and vice versa).

[habstfc]

Gossip confirmed by people within MLS who are very knowledgeable about TFC's situations:

JDG will be gone. Just like DeRo, it won't be a matter of if, but when. The breaking point was in Charleston when both DeRo and JDG intentionally missed the team bus to a practice.

Anyhoo, Winter and Mariner agreed to get rid of DeRo ASAP for anything. JDG's contract is obviously not as transferable as DeRo's, so he's on his way out at the end of the season unless the team release him (which Mariner - to his credit, thinks is a bad idea).


This story doesn't really add up. If Dero and JDG INTENTIONALLY missed a bus how would people know this unless Dero or JDG told someone they INTENTIONALLY missed a bus, sounds a little like speculation to me.

[CSO_BBTB]

Unless you are there in person you are probably getting somebody's preferred spin on what happened rather than an unbiased and balanced account of what actually unfolded and that has to be treated with a healthy degree of skepticism.

Beyond that I don't think anyone believes that JdG is likely to get a new contract given the way he has been playing and his probable salary expectations so hopefully the parting of the ways happens as soon as possible in a manner that allows TFC to strengthen the roster for a possible run at the playoffs with JdG getting a shot at moving back to Europe at a point when clubs there are most active in terms of signing players for the upcoming season.

[DichioTFC]

Roogsy. Ugh. You're making my head hurt. Again, all we're given is your word that you heard it from players. You have no more evidence to give us than he did to support your claim.

Your argument essentially boils down to: Nav's info is incorrect and mine is right because I say his is incorrect and mine is right.

I'm not even doubting your side of the story, I'm just saying that the two of you are on equal levels when it comes to the credibility of your posts.

lol I appreciate being fair on the issue of my credibility, but this thread really should be about JDG and not DeRo, or his accountant.

One is a backroom cancer, the other is a SG cancer ;) <--- intended as joke, lighten up.

[habstfc]

Not saying it was much of a scoop, just saying what the catalyst was behind his impending departure.

Not trying to pick a fight but wouldn't the catalyst for his impending departure be the end of his contract?

[DichioTFC]

This story doesn't really add up. If Dero and JDG INTENTIONALLY missed a bus how would people know this unless Dero or JDG told someone they INTENTIONALLY missed a bus, sounds a little like speculation to me.

Like I says, take it for what its worth. If you don't believe it, that's fine. I really don't care who does or doesn't believe it. But this is the story, as was told to me, by someone I trust 100% who was, again, in Charleston - who had no motivation to lie / construe (i.e. wasn't a colleague of Dwayne's and didn't work / play for TFC - a neutral observer).

You remember, this was just after the time that we was forced to return from his Celtic trial. So intent seemed obvious to this person.

[DichioTFC]

Not trying to pick a fight but wouldn't the catalyst for his impending departure be the end of his contract?

No worries dude.

Like I says, this is what was told to me, so take it for what it's worth. Missed bus --> upset management --> DeRo trade --> JDG leaving soon. That's what was told to me.

[Cashcleaner]

Fine Cash. That's it from me. You guys can get your inside info elsewhere. Even when I verify things with multiple players, it's still "spin". WTF...

Maybe I will Roogsy.

Maybe. I. Will.

http://www.spyshops.ca/gibsonparabolicmicrophone_files/image003.jpg

[habstfc]

Like I says, take it for what its worth. If you don't believe it, that's fine. I really don't care who does or doesn't believe it. But this is the story, as was told to me, by someone I trust 100% who was, again, in Charleston - who had no motivation to lie / construe (i.e. wasn't a colleague of Dwayne's and didn't work / play for TFC - a neutral observer).

You remember, this was just after the time that we was forced to return from his Celtic trial. So intent seemed obvious to this person.

So what would JDG motivation be for missing a bus?

[DichioTFC]

You brought up DeRo. Now you're acting like others are inserting him arbitrarily. Shouldn't you be gloryhunting your US team tonight? No wait...tonight you might be Panamanian. ;)

Well timed ;) From the Lars school of trolling, I see! Well done, good sir.

I guess if I'm living in Panama by the time WC2014 rolls around, I might be wearing a different red, white and blue.

[Shakes McQueen]

Riiiiight...a neutral observer watching the inside workings of the team. That's what bugs me about this story and makes it completely unbelievable. Reporters don't get the public stuff right, have a tough time getting anything out of the team about the inner problems this team has been having, but the private stuff they're bang on and see things for themselves?

He said it was someone that works for MLS, not a reporter.

- Scott

[Dub Narcotic]

No animosity. Just bafflement. (Is that a word?)

JDG was a starter for one of the better teams in Spain. Most of us never saw him play there, but he has to have been terrific at Depor. We did see him on the CMNT, and he was a total CMNT stud for years - just off the top of my head, he dominated that Canada-Jamaica WC qualifier at BMO, and scored that beauty against Brazil in Seattle, right before he came here.

It's truly bizarre. That player vanished the second he arrived at TFC.

Something else has to have been going on, maybe in his personal life.

I'm not the first to say this, but someone like JDG had to have such drive to succeed where so many have failed, and then to end up back home on astruggling new team when his European opportunities dried up must have been very deflating. This is not to excuse his mediocre play, but it was always clear that his heart was not fully here. I also think a Sharlie Joseph-type CM fits MLS better. That being said, I think a lot of the psychological problems on TFC the last few years have come as a result of the highest-paid player not being fully committed to the cause.

[Keyman]

I don't believe anything until it happens. Works well for me.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't believe anything until it happens. Works well for me.

With this league and this team, that's probably the soundest course of action. But to be honest, I've been truly blown away by some news stories that broke contrary to what I was expecting. For example, I never believed Beckham would play in LA. I mean, I knew something was going to be done about the salary cap to give clubs who could afford it a chance to sign world-class players at some point in time, but I didn't expect it would go down the way it did with the DP rule coming into effect and certainly didn't count on Beckham coming to MLS.

I dunno. I try not to put too much stock into rumours, but when the speculation makes the headlines and the potential effect on the league is so large, you have to consider these sorts of things. I'll believe JDG is going when the announcement is made and his bags are packed, but that won't stop me from trying to find out the details beforehand, just in case.

[DichioTFC]

Riiiiight...a neutral observer watching the inside workings of the team. That's what bugs me about this story and makes it completely unbelievable. Reporters don't get the public stuff right, have a tough time getting anything out of the team about the inner problems this team has been having, but the private stuff they're bang on and see things for themselves? Especially when I know for certain that this is not how the DeRo trade went down and somehow this reporter knows not only the intent of players missing a bus but also how the coaches reacted and decided to deal with the players? What are they, mindreaders?

Still dude? Really? Fuck it, I know you're the players' accountant, you invest some money for them time and again, but has it ever occurred to you that your sources may be biased? Or that they could misconstrue some facts - especially since they know you're a fan / member of a SG / potentially influential / will defend their points endlessly to point of exhaustion for a reasonable individual?

You know for certain how? Because playerS told you? They're not personally entrenched in this in any way. I'm sure if one of your colleagues at BMO were terminated, you would be entirely objective about the situation... as you seem to be for all things DeRo.

I'm done. Continue bantering.

This is now a DeRo / DeRo's accountant / DichioTFC doesn't have the contacts that DeRo's accountant does thread.

[Shakes McQueen]

The sheer number of users on this board who say they have sources close to the team, makes it impossible to know what to believe a lot of the time. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong, sometimes their information is undoubtedly skewed by the perspective of the players or management - it's headache inducing.

Keyman's philosophy at least makes things simpler, haha.

- Scott

[Auzzy]

I don't believe anything until it happens. Works well for me.

Agreed. Only problem is, sometimes (most of the time??) we never really find out what happened...

[Cashcleaner]

Agreed. Only problem is, sometimes (most of the time??) we never really find out what happened...

This as well. What we are told by players and the front office does not necessarily translate into what really happened. Find a former player talk about another former player and you just might get a little more insight, though.*

* Yes, I do know how blatant that was.

[Brooker]

lol serious business in here!

meh, we'll see what happens.

[ensco]

Sometimes everybody is "right".

Rent Rashomon, if you haven't seen it before.

[Suds]

WOW! I take one evening off the boards and drinking and all hell is breaking loose!

[Pigfynn]

So why did Roogsy go back delete all his posts? I don't get it.

[Pookie]

I don't know if the "missing bus" rumours are true.

JDG missing curfew in New England last year is true if you talk with the RPBs that let him in the hotel after hours. He was benched that game for "health reasons."

What is also true is that a few weeks later into that season, JDG and DeRo both were benched for a game in KC that had some questions being raised around the team. Both were apparently healthy.

So, did he miss a team bus on purpose? I don't know. Does he have an apparent history of "entitlement"? Seems to be so.

Anyways, while I don't think this is working out for him, as long as he wears the team colours, I'll be pulling for him.

[Beach_Red]

Sometimes everybody is "right".

Rent Rashomon, if you haven't seen it before.


One the way to Japan:

Homer: I don't know why we're going, I don't like anything Japanese.
Marge: that's not true, you loved Rashomon.
Homer: That's not how I remember it.

[Pachuco]

Yeah, as a central defensive midfielder I don't expect him to be "a goalscorer", but when he gets his chances, I expect a lot more than what we've gotten. Every JDG shot on goal ends up being a satellite launch.

Considering he has put in time as an attacking midfielder for Canada, and played reasonably well, I expected a lot more from him in his offensive looks.

I don't hate him or anything, but his time here has been inconsistent and disappointing. Right from the start, any happiness from the fanbase was tempered by knowing that JDG didn't really want to come to TFC. And he played that way for a long time.

- Scott

Agreed on all accounts. But let's not forget under Preki he was playing as a CM with offensive responsibilities as well. Heck at times we even saw him on the outside of the midfield or on the wing. Under Preki he had a horrible time adjusting to his role there.

My biggest problem with JDG is how one dimensional he is. The typical defense for JDG is:

* He doesn't have the right players around him
* He's not playing the only position he knows how to play
* The system doesn't play to his skillsket

All this amounts to one thing for me, he's a one dimensional player who is only good at one very specific thing. He's probably the least adaptable player we've seen at TFC. Atleast Carl Robinson made a pretty good CB when he was asked to play that position and he could pop the ball in the net at times as well.

Unfortunately for JDG, there are lots of other DMs in this league who are just as effective in their role as JDG is and make a fraction of what he makes. JDG is incredibly good at reading the game and cutting off passes. But as a pure tackler in my opinion he suffers. Add to that he seems to be scared of the ball and that his ball distribution is sporadic and he really does nothing to stand out as a DM in this league. Then on top of that his offensive production is none existent. Carl Robinson stood out at times because of his bone crunching tackles. The type of tackles that would motivate a team to get into the game even though his ball distribution was just as sporadic as JDGs.

Anyways I don't think it's a secret that I'd rather see JDG leave. He's actually a nice guy and I appreciate his loyalty to Canada. But he simply isn't good enough to play in this league while demanding that kind of salary. I question whether he's good enough to play for Canada as well. There's another MLS DM on that team right now that showed his versatility in the Ecuador game already. Should be interesting to see whether JDG starts when atiba comes back.

[Chevy]

So why did Roogsy go back delete all his posts? I don't get it.

Because sometimes wishes DO come true. :canada:

[tiberius]

So why did Roogsy go back delete all his posts? I don't get it.

Roogsey is self destructing - he is burning up! This is what happens to someone who cares too much - like a moth, too close to the flame...:flare:

[DichioTFC]

^ My inside source tells me it had something to do with him having "confirmed facts" and "bonafide sources" (which is funny, considering one of the posts he deleted openly questioned the credibility of his own sources). My inside source for this one is Twitter btw ;)



So why did Roogsy go back delete all his posts? I don't get it.

Because sometimes wishes DO come true. :canada:

"....When you wish upon a star..."

[Fort York Redcoat]

Let's keep this about the players and team, lads.

Anyone here is free to tell us what they heard from a source be it first-hand, hearsay, or tertiary source.

BTW there is now formal award for "Supporter with the most credible source".

[69Chevy396]

As far as I am concerned, De Guzman left this team ages ago. Notice how few people cheer his name during the pre game announcements? Arguing the pros and cons of his technical superiority may help deal with the boredom of everyday life, but for the average soccer fan, like myself, watching him play week after week is like going to the track everyday and always placing a bet on the longshot, hoping one day not to be disappointed. JDG is simply not entertaining, does little to contribute to goal scoring, loses the ball regularly to "inferior" MLS opposition, chases the ball like a blind man uses his cane to find the curb, and plays with the same energy as guy who goes into work on his last day before a layoff. In short, based on a year or more, he has contributed nothing to the development of this team. In fact, the team seems to play better without him in the lineup.

[P-NUTZ]

i would be surprised if he ended up anywhere due to his current physical health, poor performance and salary expectations.

sounds like his agent kicking the tires around to see who may bite. good luck.

[TFCRegina]

^ My inside source tells me it had something to do with him having "confirmed facts" and "bonafide sources" (which is funny, considering one of the posts he deleted openly questioned the credibility of his own sources). My inside source for this one is Twitter btw ;)





"....When you wish upon a star..."

I see you get my twitter feed.

[Roogsy]

^ My inside source tells me it had something to do with him having "confirmed facts" and "bonafide sources" (which is funny, considering one of the posts he deleted openly questioned the credibility of his own sources). My inside source for this one is Twitter btw ;)





"....When you wish upon a star..."

You're obsessed with me. Your facebook updates are about me, your twitter posts are about me and now even when I recuse myself from a conversation you still can't stop talking about me. If you're attracted that much to me, the least you can do is buy me dinner first.

As for my deletions, the answer is very simple. I wanted the conversation to get back to the Julian rumours. I had already been through this argument about the credibility of my sources and I will let my record speak for itself. Instead of dick-measuring against heresay and unsubstantiated gossip, I wanted the conversation to get back to whether Julian was going to last the year with TFC. You've never proven to have real "inside" info and you still haven't. I figure if people want to believe you, it's because they want to and quite frankly, I don't want any piece of that conversation.

So leave me out of it and get back on topic.

[Carts]

As far as I am concerned, De Guzman left this team ages ago. Notice how few people cheer his name during the pre game announcements?

How few cheer...??? He gets flat out boo'ed and heckled...

He's loudly boo'ed in lower 109 (and no not by me) when his name is announced as a starter...

Carts...

[P-NUTZ]

regardless of reliable info - does it not simply make sense that he is leaving anyways? if he needs a job for next year, wouldn't he start looking now - or have his agent put out feelers? is this not inevitably a sell before the stock drops any further?

[Roogsy]

In some circles there is the feeling he may retire completely unless he gets an attractive offer from Europe. He hasn't been happy here either.

[Whoop]

I don't know... I'm beginning to think this team performs better without JDG.

Definitely lately, they have.

Could probably make the same argument about the CMNT.

[TFCRegina]

I don't know... I'm beginning to think this team performs better without JDG.

Definitely lately, they have.

Could probably make the same argument about the CMNT.

I know I make that argument. Not gonna lie guys, but Nathan Sturgis looks better than JDG out there and both Johnson and Dunfield are better than JDG with the Nats...

I'm starting to think Earl Cochrane is a managerial genius for that trade. :facepalm:

[Whoop]

^^
And I was a JDG supporter.

Earlier on this season, the team looked better with JDG than without... but now not so much.

[Carts]

The CMNT against Ecuador was a perfect example...

1st half with Dunfield in we were far better than when Dunfield was subbed out for JDG at the start of the 2nd...

Carts...

[Roogsy]

The fact is some games he is solid and others he disappears and is ineffective. So JDG supporters will point to his good games and say he is good for the team and JDG detractors will point to games where he is ineffectual or to this latest LA game and say he is not needed, especially at his high cost.

Both sides will have a point.

Personally, since you guys know I am about efficient use of cap space, I think we can do better than JDG in that role and keep the DP slot for a solid 15-20 goal scoring striker or a star Attacking Mid.

[ManUtd4ever]

In some circles there is the feeling he may retire completely unless he gets an attractive offer from Europe. He hasn't been happy here either.

It wouldn't surprise me. JDG is getting up there in age, and he is coming off of knee surgery. He has cashed in big time in Toronto, and he could easily afford to retire if he invests his money wisely.

[TFCRegina]

The CMNT against Ecuador was a perfect example...

1st half with Dunfield in we were far better than when Dunfield was subbed out for JDG at the start of the 2nd...

Carts...

Paul James agrees but he also thinks we can't entirely write off JDG because he sometimes has that extra bit that makes him a special player. But he hasn't had it in a long time for Canada or TFC. And that's really sad because in 2007 he seemed like one of the best midfielders in CONCACAF.

[Whoop]

Personally, since you guys know I am about efficient use of cap space, I think we can do better than JDG in that role and keep the DP slot for a solid 15-20 goal scoring striker or a star Attacking Mid.

This is the key.

I think guys like Winter and Mariner were hopeful that a new system would invigorate JDG and maybe at the beginning of the season it did, but they're realizing that they might be better off without him.

As I've said the signing of JDG is probably the worst thing to happen to TFC given the dominoes that fell after his signing. JDG signs, Dichio retires, the out of whack salary structure it created, etc.

And ultimately it was likely the worst thing JDG could have done for his career. Had he stuck around with a smaller European team I don't think his career would have gone in the tank as much as it did.

[habstfc]

Does anyone have any concrete proof when his contract does expire. I remember the press conference when he was signed, they(TFC) said it was for 3 years. I am assuming they aren't counting the last 6 games of '09 as a season or are they. Is he under contract next year as well, Can anyone answer? Even if he is signed for next year I don't think he'll be around either way. If he is under contract I think the club will cut him a cheque for 1.7 and call it a day.

[Super]

DeGuzman has yet to be the game-changer a DP should be - and so it's time to go.

[mdc 77]

DeGuzman is quite the mystery, how can someone's game fall so far so fast? I want to keep believing he'll regain that form we saw in the 2007 Gold Cup, but its just been so many lacklustre performances, for so long now.

Remember these posts;

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1514&highlight=guzman (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1514&highlight=guzman)

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1136&highlight=guzman (http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1136&highlight=guzman)

[scooterTFC]

I just wonder how this can even happen financially and contractually? I believe he's got a contract for $1.7M/year for another 1.5 years. So he's got about about $2.5M left on his deal. With that much money left on table there's no way he's asking to be released outright. So is he trying to get TFC to buy him out? And if so what woudl that look like and what would that mean to the salary cap next year?

I'm no expert but I'd say his market value in the MLS is probably $150-$200k/year tops and maybe he's worth 2x-3X that in Europe if he can find a buyer.

Is there any other creative way for TFC to move him out with out taking a financial and cap hit?

[mastermixer]

A players role as a DM is the position on the field that relies most heavily on the players around them. They have to rely on defenders giving proper feeds and then the Mids/Forwards being available for proper distribution.
You can probably argue that the team around Deguz at this point is not making it easy for him to be effective. I saw the Canada game on Saturday and even thought he wasnt stellar (but neither was the rest of the team) he definately was more involved in the movement of the ball than on TFC this season.

[CretanBull]

DeGuzman is quite the mystery, how can someone's game fall so far so fast?

His game didn't fall apart, his game just doesn't translate to a league where his teammate's off the ball movement is really bad and there's so much pressure on the ball and midfield congestion.

[Carts]

A players role as a DM is the position on the field that relies most heavily on the players around them. They have to rely on defenders giving proper feeds and then the Mids/Forwards being available for proper distribution.
You can probably argue that the team around Deguz at this point is not making it easy for him to be effective. I saw the Canada game on Saturday and even thought he wasnt stellar (but neither was the rest of the team) he definately was more involved in the movement of the ball than on TFC this season.

I am SO SICK OF THIS EXCUSE...

Its the players around him, not JDG - blah blah blah...

I know its one game - but whats the excuse for the Canada/Ecuador game...???

1st half - MLS Player Terry Dunfield in the middle. Canada holds possession well, controls the game, gains a 1-0 lead...

2nd half - JDG subbed in for Dunfield. Canada completely loses the midfield. Ecuador score two, one from a strike in the hole where JDG should own the pitch... Canada would come back to score late, on a very clever 'quick ball' kick from JDG off a FK...

BUT, why did we lose the midfield when he came on...???

The players around didn't change - the only change was Dunfield/JDG...

I know, its just one game I am using as an example - but this HAPPENS ALL THE TIME... We have looked better without JDG... our LA game this weekend is a prime example...

Hell, Hart is now using Dunfield and JDG in the matches together...

So why, please someone tell me why, is JDG 'not good because of those around him', but everyone else in the league is held to their own play...???

Carts...

[brad]

DeGuzman is quite the mystery, how can someone's game fall so far so fast? I want to keep believing he'll regain that form we saw in the 2007 Gold Cup, but its just been so many lacklustre performances, for so long now.


This is not uncommon. Some players may slowly tail off, others may hit a wall and drop off fast. It could be physical, it could be motivational, it could be confidence, it could be tactical.

In JDG's case, it could be any of the above. It's possible that he could go to team at a good level in Europe and be a solid player for them again. It's also possible that he's done as a player and will never play at a high level again.

I do think he will find someone in a top league that will take him on based on his past, as long as his salary requirements are reasonable.

[brad]

His game didn't fall apart, his game just doesn't translate to a league where his teammate's off the ball movement is really bad and there's so much pressure on the ball and midfield congestion.

At this stage, we don't actually know. You might be right, or he might be done as a player at that level. Unless he goes to another, better league/team and shows that he can still perform at a higher level, we will never know.

The only other barometer we have for him is the CMNT, where he has been less than stellar lately.

[TFCRegina]

I am SO SICK OF THIS EXCUSE...

Its the players around him, not JDG - blah blah blah...

I know its one game - but whats the excuse for the Canada/Ecuador game...???

1st half - MLS Player Terry Dunfield in the middle. Canada holds possession well, controls the game, gains a 1-0 lead...

2nd half - JDG subbed in for Dunfield. Canada completely loses the midfield. Ecuador score two, one from a strike in the hole where JDG should own the pitch... Canada would come back to score late, on a very clever 'quick ball' kick from JDG off a FK...

BUT, why did we lose the midfield when he came on...???

The players around didn't change - the only change was Dunfield/JDG...

I know, its just one game I am using as an example - but this HAPPENS ALL THE TIME... We have looked better without JDG... our LA game this weekend is a prime example...

Hell, Hart is now using Dunfield and JDG in the matches together...

So why, please someone tell me why, is JDG 'not good because of those around him', but everyone else in the league is held to their own play...???

Carts...

What I saw in that Canada match was a JDG either not putting the effort in, or he's still hurt. Either way, he shouldn't have been out there. The 2nd Ecuadorian goal, for example, was a direct result of JDG refusing to get stuck in on a player as well as him jogging (instead of running) his ass back to do his job in the midfield.

To me, JDG didn't look right with Canada. It was almost as if he didn't want to be there, like it was a chore. If he's hurt, don't play him. If he's not willing to try, call up Oscar Cordon or the many other youngsters who can play in the midfield. They might have a fraction of what JDG was at his peak, but so does JDG. And one of them will bring the effort to the match, the other won't.

It's clear it isn't the players around JDG. It's either in JDG's head or it's his body, but either way, he's a shell of his former self.

[TFCRegina]

His game didn't fall apart, his game just doesn't translate to a league where his teammate's off the ball movement is really bad and there's so much pressure on the ball and midfield congestion.

So all the misplaced passes, lack of tackling, inability to intercept the ball or even cover his men at the International level is because the CMNT also isn't used to playing a higher level of football?

Sorry, but guys like Hutchinson, McKenna, De Jong, Klukowski, Simpson, etc are still playing at a high level in Europe and they didn't change JDG when JDG came on the pitch.

He's still himself, he's still not good.

[CretanBull]

At this stage, we don't actually know. You might be right, or he might be done as a player at that level. Unless he goes to another, better league/team and shows that he can still perform at a higher level, we will never know.

The only other barometer we have for him is the CMNT, where he has been less than stellar lately.

It wasn't a great game, but he was by far the best player vs. Goudalope. He had time and space and used that to initiate pretty much everyone of Canada's attacks and still held things down defensively. I know he was doing it vs 10 men, but it was a great game from him.

[Carts]

It's clear it isn't the players around JDG.

BLASPHEMY!!!!

[brad]

I am SO SICK OF THIS EXCUSE...

Its the players around him, not JDG - blah blah blah...


I used to view JDG this way. Then I started paying more attention to him.

JDG screws up a lot, and a lot of the time is not due to his team mates. Two of the things I have noticed is that he dwells on the ball too long when he has a pass to make, and he often botches the pass to an open team mate. It happens fairly often, and is often not a case of the teammates not moving for him.

To be fair, there are plenty of occasions where he is left high and dry by his teammates, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. He needs to be effective as a DP in the team we have at the level we play, not in a mythical team where the other player have La Liga levels of off the ball movement.

[habstfc]

I just wonder how this can even happen financially and contractually? I believe he's got a contract for $1.7M/year for another 1.5 years. So he's got about about $2.5M left on his deal. With that much money left on table there's no way he's asking to be released outright. So is he trying to get TFC to buy him out? And if so what woudl that look like and what would that mean to the salary cap next year?

I'm no expert but I'd days his market value in the MLS is probably $150-$200k/year tops and maybe he's worth 2X that in Europe if he can find a buyer.

Is there any other creative way for TFC to move him out with out taking a financial and cap hit?

This is my thinking as well. There's now way anyone is walking away from that kind of dough.

I also have the same questions as to how it affects the cap.

[mastermixer]

Weather it is his fault or the players around him, the fact that he makes close to 2 mil for his performance the past couple of years is ridiculous. Everyone knows this including Deguzman himeself.
Maybe the criticism has finally gotten to him and he just wants to get back to Spain and play out the rest of his career and be with his family.
If he takes a buy out and heads to Europe I wouldnt blame him, and wish him well.

[69Chevy396]

In the last game De Guzman played at BMO, the opposing center mid owned him all night, there were several times when the ball came to De Guzman and it was stripped off him like he had a mini stroke or was about to faint...he is too slow and clumsy. The reverse of the argument that he needs better players around him to demonstrate his quality, could be that he only looks good when better players cover for his mistakes and lack of skill. A great player makes other players play better, not the reverse. This is true in any sport. JDG is simply not good enough for regular duty in MLS. Would he automatically start for any other MLS club?

[Shakes McQueen]

The fact is some games he is solid and others he disappears and is ineffective. So JDG supporters will point to his good games and say he is good for the team and JDG detractors will point to games where he is ineffectual or to this latest LA game and say he is not needed, especially at his high cost.

Both sides will have a point.

Personally, since you guys know I am about efficient use of cap space, I think we can do better than JDG in that role and keep the DP slot for a solid 15-20 goal scoring striker or a star Attacking Mid.

Pretty much sums up my opinion. JDG has lost something since coming to TFC - maybe he's lacking the drive he had playing in Spain. Maybe he's frustrated with the inferior talent around him. Maybe he really has lost a step talent-wise. Maybe his confidence is shattered from not being able to make an impact here.

We will never truly know. But at the end of the day, the money we are allocating to him isn't money well spent. You could get a midfielder just as average as he has been, for a lot less money - and we have other, more pressing needs right now, like scoring.

- Scott

[Blowing Bubbles]

his skills and body type just don't mesh well with MLS. You want guys like Shalrie Joseph and Kyle Beckerman in that role, not JDG.

There are very few teams in this league that even keep the ball on the ground enough with waterbugs in midfield for him to be able to do what he does best .... basically he matches up well with RSL and that's about it.

He gets bullied a lot out there.

If you're going to have only 1 DP on your team, it sure as fuck shouldn't be on a DM.

[DichioTFC]

You're obsessed with me. Your facebook updates are about me, your twitter posts are about me and now even when I recuse myself from a conversation you still can't stop talking about me.


I see DeRo left his ego behind in Toronto. I'd love to see where on fbook and twitter I posted about you. Pics or it didn't happen.

[DichioTFC]

his skills and body type just don't mesh well with MLS. You want guys like Shalrie Joseph and Kyle Beckerman in that role, not JDG.

There are very few teams in this league that even keep the ball on the ground enough with waterbugs in midfield for him to be able to do what he does best .... basically he matches up well with RSL and that's about it.

He gets bullied a lot out there.

If you're going to have only 1 DP on your team, it sure as fuck shouldn't be on a DM.

I agree with you 100%. You need a physical presence like Joseph, Beckerman.. hell, even Tchani can be more effective than JDG in that DM role. I get the feeling he got a lot of favourable calls in La Liga, just with the nature of reffing there and his tendency to be bullied.

Like Shakes wrote, I think his opportunity to prove himself has run out. I think he had that passion when he first got here, but he's gotten more and more complacent as his tenure's worn on.

I would love to have him on the team, but not at that price tag.

[CSO_BBTB]

his skills and body type just don't mesh well with MLS. You want guys like Shalrie Joseph and Kyle Beckerman in that role, not JDG.....If you're going to have only 1 DP on your team, it sure as fuck shouldn't be on a DM.

Agree on the last bit but bear in mind that JDG had played as an attacking midfielder for the national team so there was probably an expectation that he had the quality to be able to do a lot more than he did in a La Liga context when playing against MLS opposition. The way he hasn't been able to contribute significantly when asked to play a slightly different role very much points to him not being the player he was hyped up to be. He appears to be a bit of a one-trick pony, whose career can only thrive at the highest level when he is used in one tactical niche in a limited number of leagues where a specific type of playing style predominates.

The mystery looking back with the benefit of hindsight is the extent to which Mo Johnston really rated him and the extent to which it was all driven by the Canadian content requirements and/or the desire from hockey exec types at MLSE to have Canadian faces front and foremost in marketing terms. It's nice to think in ego terms that posts on messageboards make a pivotal difference to management decisions but given the limited number of Canadian players, who are actually good enough to start regularly in MLS, the "get JDG" and "get Ali Gerba" stuff may simply have been a case of stating the obvious in terms of what TFC would try to do at that point.

[CretanBull]

I get the feeling he got a lot of favourable calls in La Liga, just with the nature of reffing there and his tendency to be bullied.

Not at all, in fact far from the truth. He did well in Spain because he had time a space to do what he does. Generally speaking, Spainish league teams attack and defend as a team (its more tatical) so there's less on the ball pressure. If you double-team someone in Spain, that means that somewhere else on the pitch your team is faced with an odd-man situation and out numbered - an outlet pass makes for an almost certain scoring chance.

In the MLS, teams just swarm the ball. The midfield is congested and there's often 2, sometimes 3, players pressuring the ball. The general talent level isn't at the point where the pressuring team really has to worry about a Xavi-like through ball to get out of trouble. In the MLS, pressuring the ball creates more turnovers and scoring chances for the pressuring team than it does expose them to quick attacks from a well played pass through traffic by the player with the ball.

A true holding midfielder or deep laying play-maker (like Busquets) wouldn't do well here, but a more physical player who gets forward more via size and strength (like Yaya Toure) would fit in really well. The MLS is a league where brute force does better than technical skill.

[Suds]

...
It's nice to think in ego terms that posts on messageboards make a pivotal difference to management decisions but given the limited number of Canadian players, who are actually good enough to start regularly in MLS, the "get JDG" and "get Ali Gerba" stuff may simply have been a case of stating the obvious in terms of what TFC would try to do at that point.

Agree with this.

[mastermixer]

Not at all, in fact far from the truth. He did well in Spain because he had time a space to do what he does. Generally speaking, Spainish league teams attack and defend as a team (its more tatical) so there's less on the ball pressure. If you double-team someone in Spain, that means that somewhere else on the pitch your team is faced with an odd-man situation and out numbered - an outlet pass makes for an almost certain scoring chance.

In the MLS, teams just swarm the ball. The midfield is congested and there's often 2, sometimes 3, players pressuring the ball. The general talent level isn't at the point where the pressuring team really has to worry about a Xavi-like through ball to get out of trouble. In the MLS, pressuring the ball creates more turnovers and scoring chances for the pressuring team than it does expose them to quick attacks from a well played pass through traffic by the player with the ball.

A true holding midfielder or deep laying play-maker (like Busquets) wouldn't do well here, but a more physical player who gets forward more via size and strength (like Yaya Toure) would fit in really well. The MLS is a league where brute force does better than technical skill.

Completely agree with this observation.

[bigtfcfan]

Not at all, in fact far from the truth. He did well in Spain because he had time a space to do what he does. Generally speaking, Spainish league teams attack and defend as a team (its more tatical) so there's less on the ball pressure. If you double-team someone in Spain, that means that somewhere else on the pitch your team is faced with an odd-man situation and out numbered - an outlet pass makes for an almost certain scoring chance.

In the MLS, teams just swarm the ball. The midfield is congested and there's often 2, sometimes 3, players pressuring the ball. The general talent level isn't at the point where the pressuring team really has to worry about a Xavi-like through ball to get out of trouble. In the MLS, pressuring the ball creates more turnovers and scoring chances for the pressuring team than it does expose them to quick attacks from a well played pass through traffic by the player with the ball.

A true holding midfielder or deep laying play-maker (like Busquets) wouldn't do well here, but a more physical player who gets forward more via size and strength (like Yaya Toure) would fit in really well. The MLS is a league where brute force does better than technical skill.

very well said

[C.Ronaldo]

^JDG has yet to make that outlet pass

hes just not good enough, plain and simple

[brad]

On the physical side, JDG played in Germany and did well - that is a physical league as well (although far more tactically astute). When he went to Spain he was initially a flop. He couldn't break the first team and people thought he would get shipped out. He adapted his game to La Liga though and the rest is history.

That does imply a couple of things.
1:JDG can cope with a physical game
2:JDG is more adaptable than people give him credit for.

At the end of the day, it's all a wash though as he hasn't done the above at TFC.

[jrober38]

JDG's decline since joining TFC shouldn't come as any surprise; the guy was an important piece on a team in a major European league, and had offers to play in England while still having several productive years left, and instead of pushing himself to perform against top competition, he settled to play for TFC so that he could return home. In other words, in coming to TFC, he packed it in.

I don't mean to belittle MLS, but when a player had the opportunity to resign with Deportivo and had rumoured interest from England and ultimately settled for MLS, alarm bells should have been going off. Despite still being in his late 20's, he opted for the easy way out by taking the money and comfort that comes with playing at home. The only explanation for his decline in play since then is that he's packed it in.

[menefreghista]

JDG's decline since joining TFC shouldn't come as any surprise; the guy was an important piece on a team in a major European league, and had offers to play in England while still having several productive years left, and instead of pushing himself to perform against top competition, he settled to play for TFC so that he could return home. In other words, in coming to TFC, he packed it in.

I don't mean to belittle MLS, but when a player had the opportunity to resign with Deportivo and had rumoured interest from England and ultimately settled for MLS, alarm bells should have been going off. Despite still being in his late 20's, he opted for the easy way out by taking the money and comfort that comes with playing at home. The only explanation for his decline in play since then is that he's packed it in.

This post if so full of errors.

De Guzman didn't settle for TFC. They offered him way more money than anyone else was offering him. So he took it.

Plus he was NEVER going to re-sign with Deportivo, considering they stopped paying him at the end.

[Pookie]

De Guzman didn't settle for TFC. They offered him way more money than anyone else was offering him. So he took it.


Interesting point. Did he actually receive any offers from anyone?

His public quotes were definitely indicating that his preference was to stay in Europe, even with the Toronto offer on the table.

[Borga]

JDG came here with the enthusiasm of a middle-aged man going to get the doctor's fingers up his ass. Despite signing a big contract, it was easy to see in his interviews that he really didn't want to be here. I think he would have gone back to Europe for less money.

I believe this attitude has translated into his play and poisoned him as a player.

[jrober38]

This post if so full of errors.

De Guzman didn't settle for TFC. They offered him way more money than anyone else was offering him. So he took it.

Plus he was NEVER going to re-sign with Deportivo, considering they stopped paying him at the end.

Errors aside, you make my point; he took the money and the more comfortable lifestyle of being back home and packed it in.

The only way you go from being a solid La Liga player to a below average MLS player is if you stop trying. There's just no other logical explanation for why his quality of play has dropped off as much as it has.

[Tim]

This post if so full of errors.

Understatement of the year haha.

He initially turned down TFC to pursue european opportunities. Problem was there there were no teams that were willing to sign him so when MOJO made another offer he accepted and was "thrilled" to come home to play

[Derko]

Well having read all of the posts, I will give you my opinion, I was quite enthustiastic on hearing that JDG was signing with TFC, it was a great moment, I thought, even though being a DM, JDG would general the mid-field. This however did not turn out to be true. The signing was, I think a little bit expected and the supporters forced the hand of management to sign a DP, any DP, just to say that TFC signed one, which was expected of them.

In a nutshell, wrong player, wrong timing, wrong league.
Time for JDG to move on. I did not expect JDG to score many goals, but he sure has missed his chances far too often.


Hopefully we can get something for JDG.

[Stouffville_RPB]

Understatement of the year haha.

He initially turned down TFC to pursue european opportunities. Problem was there there were no teams that were willing to sign him so when MOJO made another offer he accepted and was "thrilled" to come home to play

This is a much better recap of what happened. TFC was never even close to his first choice. He was black-listed in Spain for speaking out against the players not being paid and there were no offers coming from Europe. TFC not only offered him a job but a very well paying one.

That said why is everyone in Toronto so intent on running our most skilled players out of town?

[ExiledRed]

well, is he leaving or not?

[TFC07]

well, is he leaving or not?

JDG's agent said JDG is committed to TFC.

[bgnewf]

JDG's agent said JDG is committed to TFC.

And agents making 10-15% of a player's wages never lie.

With all due respect I am not saying he is lying but I think it is important to take the word of an agent with as big a grain of salt as you can find considering they often have a vested interest in something other than the truth.

[brad]

Interesting point. Did he actually receive any offers from anyone?

His public quotes were definitely indicating that his preference was to stay in Europe, even with the Toronto offer on the table.

It was rumored (all over the place in relatively reliable sources) that he was going to Espanyol, but when Jarque passed away, they had to look elsewhere. He claimed he had offers in Portugal as well I believe, and possibly England.

[brad]

When I read the tweets from John Molinaro about him staying, my first impression was that the wording was pretty specific and made it sound like he was going to leave for Europe when his contract is up.

He signed a 3 year deal in September of 2009, so in theory he should be free to leave after this season.

[Pookie]

^ I remember Mo talking about it being more like a 3 1/2 year deal. Finish the 2009 season and then 3 years on top of it.

For example:

"Financial details of the deal were not released, but the club confirmed that the 28-year-old native of Scarborough, Ont., has agreed to terms on a contract that ties him to the club through the 2012 Major League Soccer season."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/09/11/sp-toronto-fc-deguzman.html#ixzz1PI3FQnJp

[habstfc]

^ I remember Mo talking about it being more like a 3 1/2 year deal. Finish the 2009 season and then 3 years on top of it.

For example:

"Financial details of the deal were not released, but the club confirmed that the 28-year-old native of Scarborough, Ont., has agreed to terms on a contract that ties him to the club through the 2012 Major League Soccer season."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/09/11/sp-toronto-fc-deguzman.html#ixzz1PI3FQnJp

That's what I thought as well. I didn't think they would consider the last 6 or 7 games of '09 as a season. I don't think he'll be back for '12. My guess is they'll cut him a cheque for 1.7 and release him.

[Damien]

We can't really get THAT much worse... so if Winter/Mariner see value in releasing him from his contract then take it. We've made it through games without him.

[ManUtd4ever]

That's what I thought as well. I didn't think they would consider the last 6 or 7 games of '09 as a season. I don't think he'll be back for '12. My guess is they'll cut him a cheque for 1.7 and release him.

I seriously doubt that is a realistic option for MLSE. If JDG's contract expires at the end of the 2012 season, then it's safe to assume he's not going anywhere next year unless he is traded to another MLS club, or acquired by a foreign club via the transfer market, which are both very unlikely scenarios.

[ensco]

That's what I thought as well. I didn't think they would consider the last 6 or 7 games of '09 as a season. I don't think he'll be back for '12. My guess is they'll cut him a cheque for 1.7 and release him.

This is probably what's going on. TFC want to negotiate a buyout at some percentage of the $2.5 mil still owed on the contract. JDG's agent is probably asking for 100% of the amount owing (I would if I were him).

The logical next step is for TFC to assign JDG on loan to a USL-2 team, just to get his attention.

[Auzzy]

^ Makes sense. The "rumours" that JDG wants out (or TFC wants him out) could be trial balloons by management to see how people react, and to put some pressure on JDG. (I.e., you're not really wanted; you don't have much value.)

Player & agent meanwhile say JDG is 100% committed, i.e., they want a good deal for him to leave.

Just a wild guess of course. I'm just trying to understand why this rumour (and the response from JDG's side) make sense.

[CSO_BBTB]

....He was black-listed in Spain for speaking out against the players not being paid and there were no offers coming from Europe....

The supposed black listing thing looked suspiciously like spin from his agent to me given the lack of offers from elsewhere in Europe. From what I remember Espanol did show some interest but there was some complication on the number of non-EU players that scuppered the deal (might do some googling later). Beyond that something to bear in mind about MLS contracts is that there are often option years involved so hopefully he isn't on a guaranteed deal for 2012.

[habstfc]

This is probably what's going on. TFC want to negotiate a buyout at some percentage of the $2.5 mil still owed on the contract. JDG's agent is probably asking for 100% of the amount owing (I would if I were him).

The logical next step is for TFC to assign JDG on loan to a USL-2 team, just to get his attention.

I'm sure his agent is no dummy. I'm pretty sure there is no room for negotiation for a buyout. It's 100% of what's owed.

[69Chevy396]

I like the post which recommends loaning him to a usl team. There he might finally feel comfortable playing with players of his quality.

[brad]

I'm sure his agent is no dummy. I'm pretty sure there is no room for negotiation for a buyout. It's 100% of what's owed.

A buyout wouldn't be in the contract, it would be negotiated to be mutually beneficial. JDG would have to want to go though, and be willing to take less than what they owe him.

[brad]

I like the post which recommends loaning him to a usl team. There he might finally feel comfortable playing with players of his quality.

I would be shocked if his contract doesn't have a no-trade/loan clause.

[kodiakTFC]

He was awful for Canada day and failed to score on a 1 on 1 with the keeper. That 'goal' would've seen us through. I think he's lost all confidence at this point.

[CSO_BBTB]

I would be shocked if his contract doesn't have a no-trade/loan clause.

Think you might wind up being shocked then. In the last expansion draft designated players had to be protected if they had a no-trade clause:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/official-mls-expansion-draft-rules

• Designated players are NOT automatically protected (i.e., Clubs must choose whether to protect such players and if such player is not protected, he will be available for selection in the Expansion Draft). However, if the Designated Player has a no-trade clause in his contract, then his MLS club must protect him and he will count as one of the 11 players who may be protected.

JDG was initially left off TFC's list so presumably that means he can be traded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_MLS_Expansion_Draft#Toronto_FC

[brad]

^^interesting, and very suprised. Good detective work :-)

[habstfc]

A buyout wouldn't be in the contract, it would be negotiated to be mutually beneficial. JDG would have to want to go though, and be willing to take less than what they owe him.

Not unless there is a clause specifying any buyout would have to be 100% of any salary remaining on his contract.

[Tim]

I like the post which recommends loaning him to a usl team. There he might finally feel comfortable playing with players of his quality.

I hear the Toronto Lynx need a good DM. Or maybe Thunder Bay of the PDL

[Oldtimer]

Not unless there is a clause specifying any buyout would have to be 100% of any salary remaining on his contract.

These things can always be negotiated.

If he's unhappy, I'm sure Winter & Co. will let him go.

[Beach_Red]

These things can always be negotiated.

If he's unhappy, I'm sure Winter & Co. will let him go.

Yes, it could be like Laurent Robert, he signed a contract and then wanted out and was let go.

Of course, first JDG's agent would have to quietly find him another job, like Robert's did for him in Greece.

[habstfc]

These things can always be negotiated.

If he's unhappy, I'm sure Winter & Co. will let him go.

From what we have apparently heard from his agent, he isn't unhappy and is fully committed to the team. I think ultimately he will be here til the end of his contract. Like I said earlier, nobody walks away from that kind of money. I'm sure his wife, agent, accountant and family will have something to say about that.

[Roogsy]

1) He is definitely committed. Julian is a professional and a stand-up guy.
2) Whatever winds up happening, there is no way he'd simply walk away and leave money on the table. I don't know any player that would do that and that is not what has been suggested.
3) Whether he's committed to working through things and whether he will play out his contract is not an indication of how "happy" he is. Sometimes, when you have responsibilities, you gotta plug through anyways. I think that's what he's going through.

[Dreadlocks]

To me a buyout would make sense for the footbal side of things - but not for the business side. Therefore I have doubts if MLSE will allow it.

I think he'll be here for the entire length of his contract.

Also, how are buyouts handled with the cap? Anyone know?

[P-NUTZ]

hes sitting on a golden egg - no way hes walking away from this cash heap considering hes not in any sort of demand. this is his swan song and he'll protect it accordingly.

great.:picard:

[Section 117]

If he leaves it would be no great loss for TFC. For reasons stated through out his tenure here.

My problem is the lack of effort and heart he shows period. From what people tell me he is the last one to show up at practice and the first to leave. Not a great sign for your DP. Also, rumor on the street is that he is not the best influence on the young Canadian kids on the squad.

[Batman]

I think he's definitely committed to TFC.

He's committed to cashing his cheque each month anyway.

He's definitely a DP in regards to cheque cashing. The best we've ever had!

[Roogsy]

:lol:

It's always been about the money bro. He didn't come here because he wanted to.

[billyfly]

According to my source its not been a topic of discussion within the team but now that he is back from the Gold Cup, maybe it starts...

[Juanito]

:lol:

It's always been about the money bro. He didn't come here because he wanted to.

That is true. He came here because no one else offered him a contract. He was willing to go ANYWHERE in Western Europe instead of MLS.

I assume that his lack of motivation translates to on-pitch performance. I think that even when he DOES TRY, he has regressed so much as a footballer, that he is mediocre at best.

[DichioTFC]

Thought - trading JDG to L'Impact for their first pick in the 2012 MLS draft (aka the Soony Saad pick).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soony_Saad

Don't know if he'll tear this league up, but he has torn up leagues everywhere else he's gone (last year of high school scored 76 goals in 22 games, 2010 19 goals in his freshman year at University of Michigan). Could be another Edu (Saad is currently trialing with Anderlecht in Belgium - same squad that has Lukaku).

Is this a possibility?

[menefreghista]

Is this a possibility?

Only if Montreal hires Earl Cochrane.

[Davenport]

If he's as crap at cards as soccer then most of his money is going back into the city anyway.

[ensco]

Yes, it could be like Laurent Robert, he signed a contract and then wanted out and was let go.

Of course, first JDG's agent would have to quietly find him another job, like Robert's did for him in Greece.

The way I remember it, that was not just about Robert wanting to leave. TFC needed to make cap room for Ruiz and announced the Robert departure and Ruiz deal within hours of each other.

[Walms]

I feel like were not giving JDG his due credit.

He came to his home town to play for his home club, more money or not, he is still a home grown player who has had a epic career.

All this talk of "good ridence" is a bit outa line. If JDG and TFC cant reach a new agrement I wish him the best of luck, but i hope with all my heart he stay's with TFC...(played great for Canada last night)

[Hustle]

Good Riddance.

[ilikemusic]

All this talk of "good ridence" is a bit outa line. If JDG and TFC cant reach a new agrement I wish him the best of luck, but i hope with all my heart he stay's with TFC...(played great for Canada last night)


Good Riddance.

:scarf:


:lol:

It's always been about the money bro. He didn't come here because he wanted to.

I think quite a few people seem to have forgotten this. He only came here because he ran out of options. JDG wasn't like DeRosario. He didn't seek to play for TFC.

[Maltese Falcon]

Paid the wrong "De" DP money...much rather DeRo than DeGuz right now

[Davenport]

Paid the wrong "De" DP money...much rather DeRo than DeGuz right now
Aye. DeGuz is about as useful as a dose of DePox.

[Pookie]

This is probably what's going on. TFC want to negotiate a buyout at some percentage of the $2.5 mil still owed on the contract. JDG's agent is probably asking for 100% of the amount owing (I would if I were him).



True but once the initial positions are taken, the agent should realize that if JDG gets a buyout he could conceivably make more money in total if he has an idea as to his market value.

[Batman]

True but once the initial positions are taken, the agent should realize that if JDG gets a buyout he could conceivably make more money in total if he has an idea as to his market value.

Exactly... that's why a buy out CAN make sense from a players perspective.

They agree to sum less that the total contract from the original team.. and if they're half decent they can more than make it up in the contract from the next team.

They can end up with more overall...

the problem with DeGuz is.. how much is any other team willing to pay him?

[denime]

I was told tonight there is way to much politics involved,however JDG is not going anywhere.It does not make sense from his perspective to move early.If ML$E is ready to pay full amount of his contract as a buyout,he might consider.

[CSO_BBTB]

Some time spent on the bench or in the press box maybe wouldn't do any harm then. That kind of thing can sometimes help resolve the "way too much politics" and also lets the players who are fully committed to the cause get on with the business of winning points and moving up the standings.

[rocker]

I don't even think De Guz is worth the max cap hit that comes with being a DP. 175-200K? sure.

[tfc007]

I will drive him to the airport !!!!

[Batman]

I was told tonight there is way to much politics involved,however JDG is not going anywhere.It does not make sense from his perspective to move early.If ML$E is ready to pay full amount of his contract as a buyout,he might consider.

well that's really mighty frickin big of him, isn't it.

If they pay him ALL of the money and they tell him not to come to work anymore he MIGHT consider granting their wish. F&CK HIM

They should bury him in the reserve team for the rest of his contract then.

[mightydrm]

leave de guzman alone... he is doing fairly well this season under winter... and no he is not a goal scorer and no one should expect him to score just because he is a dp... he didnt score in hannover or deportivo (much) so why would we expect him to score with TFC? i hope he stays....

He is far and away our best player; all he needs is for the team to get a couple of classy players - even one might do it (there were moments with Mista) and he will sparkle. You cannot have a distrutor of the ball with no one to distribute to.