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mastermixer
06-08-2011, 09:38 PM
And sports... apparently the guy who tweeted the response is a baseball writer.

@alexilalas22 (http://twitter.com/#%21/alexilalas22) Alexi Lalas
Hey @JerseyJBradley (http://twitter.com/JerseyJBradley), if my @Pirates (http://twitter.com/Pirates) somehow won the 2011 World Series, what would the equivalent be in soccer


@alexilalas22 (http://twitter.com/#%21/alexilalas22) Alexi Lalas
Ouch...eh. RT @JerseyJBradley (http://twitter.com/JerseyJBradley): Toronto FC winning two in a row."

ag futbol
06-08-2011, 09:42 PM
I know, if we were to get any worse i think @alexilalas22 (http://twitter.com/#%21/alexilalas22) would have to manage the team:skep:

habstfc
06-08-2011, 10:04 PM
Didn't TFC basically save this league?

Carts
06-08-2011, 10:08 PM
Didn't TFC basically save this league?

By making American fans feel good by winning easy games...???

TFCRegina
06-08-2011, 10:19 PM
By making American fans feel good by winning easy games...???

By providing plenty of marketing material of goals being scored in a full stadium.

Roogsy
06-08-2011, 10:24 PM
I tweeted after the Philly game:

TFC, helping teams solve their scoring droughts since 2007.

I stand by that tweet. LOL!

DichioTFC
06-08-2011, 10:28 PM
By providing plenty of marketing material of goals being scored in a full stadium.

By showing how to lose a fan base in record time?

menefreghista
06-08-2011, 10:48 PM
A day or so ago there was a discussion on whether TFC was the worst MLS team ever. I think you could make a pretty compelling argument that they are.

I think you really do need to go to other sports to relate to the kind of ineptitude TFC has delivered over its 5 year existence.

What other teams have a financial advantage over their league counterparts but are perennially shit? The Mets in baseball?

Waggy
06-08-2011, 11:00 PM
A day or so ago there was a discussion on whether TFC was the worst MLS team ever. I think you could make a pretty compelling argument that they are.

I think you really do need to go to other sports to relate to the kind of ineptitude TFC has delivered over its 5 year existence.

What other teams have a financial advantage over their league counterparts but are perennially shit? The Mets in baseball?

the Maple Leafs

the cubs, the clippers, redskins, cowboys (in recent history anyways), jets (until recently anyways), dodgers, knicks. off the top of my head that's all I got. Could just be harder then we think now that I'm thinking about it. In North America there's very few teams that have a serious financial edge over teams and are consistently good. That list off the top of my head are the Red Sox, Yankees and Lakers. that's all I got.

CSO_BBTB
06-08-2011, 11:11 PM
Didn't TFC basically save this league?

I hope you are being sarcastic with that? The building of the first SSS in Columbus was what saved the league because it pointed the way to profitability at a time when the three billionaires signing all the cheques were rumoured to be getting cold feet. Toronto was number six in that regard and followed an already well established model. Some people like to believe that TFC introduced a more traditional fan culture to MLS for the first time, but DC United were doing that as far back as 1996 so that's a case of marketing hype as much as anything else. If the Toronto experience did anything it was to finally convince people south of the border that having their own version of the Barra Brava and Screaming Eagles is a positive thing and that the youth soccer minivan crowd isn't the be all and end all of soccer marketing. Arguably another lesson was that a more central stadium location was better than being way out in suburbia like FC Dallas but I think that was in line with common sense.

james
06-08-2011, 11:17 PM
Didn't TFC basically save this league?

ya TFC have show MLS how to create a great fan support base with great atmosphere.....and then also shown MLS how to destroy it all in just 4 years!!

james
06-08-2011, 11:31 PM
the Maple Leafs

the cubs, the clippers, redskins, cowboys (in recent history anyways), jets (until recently anyways), dodgers, knicks. off the top of my head that's all I got. Could just be harder then we think now that I'm thinking about it. In North America there's very few teams that have a serious financial edge over teams and are consistently good. That list off the top of my head are the Red Sox, Yankees and Lakers. that's all I got.

all tho many these teams havent won any recent trophies i think in the passed 5 years some of them have had at least half decent seasons. Maybe only leafs (of course no suprise another toronto team) and the Knicks can match as bad as TFC with not even making the playoffs.

On side note, Arizona Cardinals once went 20 years without making the playoffs....TFC please dont be as bad as that:picard:

habstfc
06-09-2011, 12:08 AM
I was actually thinking of the fact that this league was going nowhere fast. When TFC joined the league if I remember correctly the league was in serious financial trouble and it seemed that almost yearly a team would fold. The support this team received from it's fan base rejuvenated MLS and it showed fans in america that the authentic soccer experience could be replicated in MLS. It took a canadian team to do it. I submit that without the toronto success there would be no philly or portland or seattle or vancouver etc. In my opinion this league would ahve been done without TFC overwhelming success. (financially anyways)

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 12:38 AM
...When TFC joined the league if I remember correctly the league was in serious financial trouble and it seemed that almost yearly a team would fold...

That may have been your impression but it doesn't match reality. The move out of large NFL and college football stadia was already well underway by the time TFC joined and the scope for profitability in a mid-sized soccer specific stadium by doing so had already been successfully demonstrated in Los Angeles as far back as 2003. Teams also were not folding on a yearly basis. I think you are maybe confusing what happened at the D2 level the Lynx were playing at with what was going on at the MLS level? The single entity ownership of MLS was deliberately designed to prevent a repeat of the NASL scenario of the late 70s and early 80s when teams were often here today and gone tomorrow. With the exception of the one-off two team contraction in 2001 that has helped to make MLS every bit as stable as the four mainstream major leagues in terms of franchises staying in business and remaining in their original location.

prizby
06-09-2011, 01:44 AM
I hope you are being sarcastic with that? The building of the first SSS in Columbus was what saved the league because it pointed the way to profitability at a time when the three billionaires signing all the cheques were rumoured to be getting cold feet. Toronto was number six in that regard and followed an already well established model. Some people like to believe that TFC introduced a more traditional fan culture to MLS for the first time, but DC United were doing that as far back as 1996 so that's a case of marketing hype as much as anything else. If the Toronto experience did anything it was to finally convince people south of the border that having their own version of the Barra Brava and Screaming Eagles is a positive thing and that the youth soccer minivan crowd isn't the be all and end all of soccer marketing. Arguably another lesson was that a more central stadium location was better than being way out in suburbia like FC Dallas but I think that was in line with common sense.

how many teams post 2007 model themselves after DC United or Shitlombus

ZERO

nuff said

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 01:54 AM
I responded to the question of whether TFC saved the league so that's a non-sequitur. Most of the heavy lifting on turning things around was done elsewhere prior to 2007. Richard Peddie and MLSE deserve praise for being slightly ahead of the curve in seeing the opportunity that had been created (compare and contract with the posture adopted by Greg Kerfoot and the Saputos) but didn't do anything that was hugely pivotal to the league's survival. As for who represents the model on how to do things now do you really think it's TFC? I strongly suspect it tends to be the Sounders.

J .
06-09-2011, 02:09 AM
how many teams post 2007 model themselves after DC United or Shitlombus

ZERO

nuff said


DCU is getting fucked by not having a stadium,but in a 20,000 seater like ours Barra Brava and co would rock it and Tom Soehn coaching them for two seasons didnt help. Thankfully hes now with the Shitecrabs.

Suds
06-09-2011, 05:50 AM
With the amount of missteps TFC has made I don't think they can be credited for the success of anything. Fan hype and fanbase growth was done at the grassroots level on various fan message boards. Supporters groups already existed or grew organically; again at the grassroots level. Anyone remember the days we used to ask where all the TFC marketing was?

Portland & Seattle already had a great fan base. Philly already had a strong core calling for a team. TFC get ZERO credit for that. Same can be said for the core fans throughout the league.

MLSE/TFC get credit for cutting the check to buy a team. They also get credit for cutting a check for a new training facility. So, they are good at cutting checks. Not sure if there is much else we can be celebrating ... yet.

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 06:26 AM
With the amount of missteps TFC has made I don't think they can be credited for the success of anything. Fan hype and fanbase growth was done at the grassroots level on various fan message boards.....

The thing that I think is conveniently forgotten by some is the effect of David Beckham's move to the Galaxy being announced midway through the season ticket sales drive. Things were going better than most expected prior to that but the Beckham hype provided the surge of publicity and interest that made sellouts very much the norm in year one. The heavy lifting was being done elsewhere in other words but Richard Peddie had the foresight to see a huge opportunity where most saw only probable instant failure.

ensco
06-09-2011, 06:48 AM
TFC did do something great for the league, which was help MLS to ratchet up expansion fees bigtime, from $10 million, to $35-40 million. Those great early days seemed to be confirmation of the idea that MLS was ready to takeoff, that it was about more than Beckham.

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 07:01 AM
Could just as easily have happened somewhere like Vancouver or Seattle.

TOBOR !
06-09-2011, 07:40 AM
^ but when ? And to the same degree ? I'm inclined to agree that TFC may not have necessarily 'saved' the league, but it did a lot to accelerate it's growth as well as the evolution of fan culture.

Seattle for one picked up on that. They saw Toronto (or rather, Drew Carey et al did) and thought 'I'll have some of that, but like this'.

If it was done the other way around, would people like Carey get involved in Seattle, or would the existing Sounders A-League team just move into MLS with minimum fanfare into a middling league ?

ManUtd4ever
06-09-2011, 07:44 AM
With the amount of missteps TFC has made I don't think they can be credited for the success of anything. Fan hype and fanbase growth was done at the grassroots level on various fan message boards. Supporters groups already existed or grew organically; again at the grassroots level. Anyone remember the days we used to ask where all the TFC marketing was?

Portland & Seattle already had a great fan base. Philly already had a strong core calling for a team. TFC get ZERO credit for that. Same can be said for the core fans throughout the league.

MLSE/TFC get credit for cutting the check to buy a team. They also get credit for cutting a check for a new training facility. So, they are good at cutting checks. Not sure if there is much else we can be celebrating ... yet.

Agreed.

Oldtimer
06-09-2011, 07:48 AM
TFC showed the league how to market to real football fans. That was a genuine business achievement, and swung MLS away from catering only to families (those of us who followed the league before 2007 know this to be true). Seattle, Portland, and Vancouver are the beneficiaries of their playbook. It won Paul B. (a former Raptors guy) a league award. Marketing is ML$E's forte. Anyone with a die-hard Leafs fan as a neighbour or co-worker will know that this is true.

Running winning teams in any league in any sport is quite another story altogether. It tends to undermine any marketing strength that they exhibit. Even the Leafs are suffering from non-renewals because of their long playoff drought.

As far as TFC's team goes... it's an easy 1 or 3 points for any opponent. It's like RSL for their first 4 seasons. TFC's sucking is now 5 seasons and counting...

TOBOR !
06-09-2011, 07:56 AM
As far as TFC's team goes... it's an easy 1 or 3 points for any opponent.

*plugs ears*

rebuilding year, rebuilding year, rebuilding year

Alixir
06-09-2011, 07:56 AM
not only that but if there is a way to fuck something up, or set a league record that is an embarrassment to this team...TFC will find a way.

menefreghista
06-09-2011, 07:58 AM
I don't think TFC FO deserves any credit as great marketers. In terms of TFC's initial buzz they were lucky, not smart.

The soccer market came to them, they didn't find it.

There are so many things that fell into MLSE's lap that you can not give them credit for.

-The CSA/3 different levels of government gifted MLSE an essentially free stadium, with out that TFC doesn't even get off the ground.
-For the initial season ticket drive there was very little marketing, it was the grass roots soccer base that drove the numbers to about 7000.
-The Beckham announcement pushed the season tickets to 14,000 and helped create a little buzz for the team.
-The first few home games, culminating in the Dichio goal gave this team a buzz as a great place to go.

This club has lived off those initial few weeks of the 2007 season for nearly 5 years now.

But whenever they have had to do real work and market this team it has not been successful at all.

I don't give them any credit for marketing.

The only thing I give them credit for is ruining something special that was handed to them on silver platter.

Oldtimer
06-09-2011, 08:00 AM
not only that but if there is a way to fuck something up, or set a league record that is an embarrassment to this team...TFC will find a way.

RSL still hold the all-time goal-less streak record crossing 2 seasons. Maybe TFC could try to break that record. They'll have to keep their poor form well into next year and make their poor form even poorer in order to do that. :D


I don't think TFC FO deserves any credit as great marketers. In terms of TFC's initial buzz they were lucky, not smart.

The soccer market came to them, they didn't find it.



I suspect that you didn't follow the Lynx. ;)

Bruno Hartrell himself said that TFC would be lucky to get 3,000 in the stadium, even playing in MLS.
ML$E knew how to mobilize the grass-roots soccer base, something that the CSA hasn't managed with the CMNT. It wasn't "automatic."

The current groupthink is that ML$E can't do anything right in any area. That's kind of revisionist thinking that comes from disillusionment with the team. All you have to look at is this very board 3 years ago and you will get a very different idea. They mismanaged the team, but their marketing was the best in the league. Only LA knew how to hype a poor team better.

Oldtimer
06-09-2011, 08:10 AM
Take a look at this thread to see an example of how poor other teams' marketing was:

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=311

or... how about this thread?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=207

How about the naming of the earlier MLS teams?

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1161

...and going back to playing quality, here's an interesting thread on how LA was an "embarrasment to the league"

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1309

Pookie
06-09-2011, 08:18 AM
I submit that without the toronto success there would be no philly or portland or seattle or vancouver etc. In my opinion this league would ahve been done without TFC overwhelming success. (financially anyways)

Expansion fees are one thing and the revenue share on operating income was another.

Forbes had only 3 teams posting a profit in 2007-08. TFC was 2nd, behind the Galaxy.

All of this financial success was predicated on 2007-08 price levels. Greed has destroyed what was once a very positive thing.

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 08:24 AM
TFC showed the league how to market to real football fans...

Were you around online when this was all unfolding? The fan groups were humoured but were not really taken seriously or treated as the central part of a marketing plan from what I could see. RPB got allocated a block of 50 seats out of 3000 in the south end for example. Once their phones were ringing off the hook after the Beckham announcement they made no attempt to expand that they just sold their entire inventory on a first come first serve basis with the result that the vast majority of people in 112 and 113 initially didn't have a clue what was going on at the front of the sections when the season started.

I suspect most of the people who wound up buying seats in the south end did so because they were the cheapest available not because of some marketing wizardry or novel marketing strategy from MLSE. Then there's the whole Tribal Rhythym Nation thing that got in the way of getting chants to spread across all the sections of the south end. Hardly the actions of an organization that saw "real football fans" as the key to getting some atmosphere going. They clearly thought they had to get a band in for that. Sometimes things happen almost by accident rather than by design.

Oldtimer
06-09-2011, 08:25 AM
Greed has destroyed what was once a very positive thing.

Exactly. Greed (plus incompetence).

Oldtimer
06-09-2011, 08:29 AM
Were you around online when this was all unfolding?

Yes. We both were on Simon's board, along with Batman and a few others.

TFC made some terrible marketing mistakes that other teams have learned from in respect to a proper supporter's section. "Best in the League" is relative.

Anyways, I'm done.... go back to the regular scheduled broadcast of tearing apart ML$E in every way possible. They deserve it for sure.

drexel10
06-09-2011, 08:32 AM
TFC didn't save the league.
TFC didn't just create the best atmosphere, as there were some good places for that.

TFC did get a massive boost in corporate sponsorship to the league and were profitable since day 1(MLSE has something to do with the sponsorship). That is what has helped sell the business model to the likes of Seattle, Philly, Van and Portland. Just look at the jersey/stadium sponsors for these newer teams. Not sure where they are now, but TFC had over 40 corporate sponsors a few years ago. Vancouver is now the King of the hill in that department.

TFC was also fortunate to be able to capitalize on the 18-35 year old disposale income group (mostly because of location). Most US soccer was totally missing out on this groups, as it was focusing on soocer mom and suburbanites.

tfcleeds
06-09-2011, 08:43 AM
Agreed that TFC should not be given much credit at all for "saving the league". It just isn't true. The sad thing is, we could still be the standard bearers of what support should/can be in this league, if MLSE hadn't killed the golden goose by basing every decision they've made on how it affects the bottom line, rather than how it contributes to the betterment of the club.

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 08:52 AM
Yes. We both were on Simon's board, along with Batman and a few others.

Sorry about that, been a while. All I have to say beyond that is that 15,000 candela is only for wussies.

drexel10
06-09-2011, 08:53 AM
Also TFC has the most expensive tickets in the league and they are still selling 20K or more per game. I agree with most that they have been greedy and if that isn't adjusted their will be a massive decline in demand next year.

So with showing most games on GolTv, virtually no marketing, a bad product on the field, they are still making a nice profit. I mean that is a business model most owners and the league would kill for :)

prizby
06-09-2011, 08:57 AM
I responded to the question of whether TFC saved the league so that's a non-sequitur. Most of the heavy lifting on turning things around was done elsewhere prior to 2007. Richard Peddie and MLSE deserve praise for being slightly ahead of the curve in seeing the opportunity that had been created (compare and contract with the posture adopted by Greg Kerfoot and the Saputos) but didn't do anything that was hugely pivotal to the league's survival. As for who represents the model on how to do things now do you really think it's TFC? I strongly suspect it tends to be the Sounders.

since TFC has been in the league, how many times have you heard Garber refer to DC or Columbus as an example

james
06-09-2011, 09:00 AM
I don't think TFC FO deserves any credit as great marketers. In terms of TFC's initial buzz they were lucky, not smart.

The soccer market came to them, they didn't find it.

There are so many things that fell into MLSE's lap that you can not give them credit for.

-The CSA/3 different levels of government gifted MLSE an essentially free stadium, with out that TFC doesn't even get off the ground.
-For the initial season ticket drive there was very little marketing, it was the grass roots soccer base that drove the numbers to about 7000.
-The Beckham announcement pushed the season tickets to 14,000 and helped create a little buzz for the team.
-The first few home games, culminating in the Dichio goal gave this team a buzz as a great place to go.

This club has lived off those initial few weeks of the 2007 season for nearly 5 years now.

But whenever they have had to do real work and market this team it has not been successful at all.

I don't give them any credit for marketing.

The only thing I give them credit for is ruining something special that was handed to them on silver platter.

MLSE did do a few things id give them credit for.

1) The team name and badge and jersey was the best thing they ever did. They didnt follow the USA typical sport name like the Lions or dragons shit and they made the badge and name look very English, giving fans a sense that this team was going to be a propperly pro team.

2) the scarfs that came with season packages was well done, it did help build the atmsohpere at the beginning of games, something new in MLS at the time. Made me think of games youd see at Liverpool or Celtic.

3) MLSE helped make BMO a bit more like Euro stadiums with the white seats creatting a maple leaf and the words Toronto and BMO, it gave you a feelling like it was a real stadium just for Toronto FC.

4) ticket prices were well done in the first season, and made the cheapest seats behind the goals to help make the supporters section possible for groups to get organized in that section.

5) advertising in year 1 was good if anyone can remember them, i remember the commercial with Jimmy B headding the ball all the way through it. They were clean and easy, but at same time not jumping down your throat like the commercials that followed in the later years with BMO selling the fans as if we were some sort of warriors:picard:

6) Handing out those coushins which i thot was stupid at first turned out to be a great decision and sure created one of TFC best memory. Was greate on TV and great pictures in the papper of it. When people saw that they just thot TFC fans were mad.

7) Having those 2 giant TFC banners we use to pass around the stadium was quite cool at the time, before supporters even had time to organize our own tifos it made it feel more like you were in a europe stadium and it really got the fans into, some had never seen things like that before.

8) got real grass!

however thats probably just about it, it was mainly all in year 1, after year 1 i dont know what the fuck happened. Seems as if the FO did everything wrong after that point and ticket price increase vs shit quality on the field was the worst of them all. The FO seemed to even start fighting against the supporters something that created the team. The supporter groups were created without MLSE. The singing, chanting, tifos, flag waving, marching to the stadium, streammer throwing was all done with no help from MLSE. The only positive thing they did was let us bring flags, streammers and giant banners into the stadium, something they dont even seem to let us do that these days.

Now i think new teams look at what Seattle does to attract fans, how to work with fans and create that hype. New teams probably just hold Toronto up as a model on what not to do to scare fans away and fuck it all up.

Belfast_Boy
06-09-2011, 09:00 AM
this isn't going to change unless the ownership does. if not, this is our future...

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/kurtenblog/LeafsFan.jpg?t=1242223613

CSO_BBTB
06-09-2011, 09:03 AM
since TFC has been in the league, how many times have you heard Garber refer to DC or Columbus as an example

Again I will point you in the direction of what I responded to. Whether TFC saved the league.

menefreghista
06-09-2011, 09:15 AM
Also TFC has the most expensive tickets in the league and they are still selling 20K or more per game. I agree with most that they have been greedy and if that isn't adjusted their will be a massive decline in demand next year.

The club might be announcing attendances in the 20,000 range, and they may have even really sold that many to each game, but there definitely aren't 20,000 people in the stadium on most dates.

And unused tickets translate into non renewed seasons in the future.

menefreghista
06-09-2011, 09:19 AM
MLSE did do a few things id give them credit for.

A lot of the things you mention aren't even accredited to TFC FO.

The Brennan/Pozniak commercial was by BMO, not TFC.

drexel10
06-09-2011, 09:48 AM
The club might be announcing attendances in the 20,000 range, and they may have even really sold that many to each game, but there definitely aren't 20,000 people in the stadium on most dates.

And unused tickets translate into non renewed seasons in the future.


Oh I am very aware, but in spite of that, they are very profitable. Also, if attendance is near 20,000 (regardless of what everyone thinks), ticket sales are much greater, unless they have been giving a lot away.

Fort York Redcoat
06-09-2011, 09:56 AM
All this because of Alexi Lalas making fun of us? Can someone find that old pic of him with his ridiculous hair and guitar and tell me how serious i need to take what he says?

ginkster88
06-09-2011, 09:57 AM
how many teams post 2007 model themselves after DC United or Shitlombus

ZERO

nuff said

What are you talking about? Columbus Crew Stadium was the first soccer-specific stadium in MLS and franchises began modelling themselves after that almost immediately after.

BMO wasn't even going to be soccer-specific until the Argos owners got way too greedy and lost their chance to share the venue.

Suds
06-09-2011, 10:01 AM
All this because of Alexi Lalas making fun of us? Can someone find that old pic of him with his ridiculous hair and guitar and tell me how serious i need to take what he says?


Actually, it was not Alexi Lalas. It was a baseball columnist for ESPN News responding to him. That's how far our reputation as a crap team has traveled. :(

menefreghista
06-09-2011, 10:10 AM
BMO wasn't even going to be soccer-specific until the Argos owners got way too greedy and lost their chance to share the venue.

If the Argos don't pull out of the York U. deal TFC probably never gets off the ground. MLSE had no interest in an MLS team that far north.

ginkster88
06-09-2011, 10:16 AM
If the Argos don't pull out of the York U. deal TFC probably never gets off the ground. MLSE had no interest in an MLS team that far north.

That's what I'm saying.

TFC has done nothing "right".

They didn't even expect to sell any tickets.

They advertised to all the wrong groups, on a model that has failed over and over again in the States (soccer clubs, associations, etc.)

They hired an incompetent coach and general manager.

They built a shitty stadium with shitty turf.

I could go on.

TFC have done NOTHING right. There is no model to follow.

They were tremendously fortunate to find a fanbase they didn't know existed in Toronto and have milked those fans dry for five years. Try doing that in any other city and see how long you can do it for.

TFC didn't "save" MLS, RPB, U-Sector and NEE saved TFC.

menefreghista
06-09-2011, 10:20 AM
That's what I'm saying.

TFC has done nothing "right".

We are on the same wavelength.

Like I say, TFC were more lucky than smart. And we are suffering for it today.

TFC07
06-09-2011, 10:56 AM
That's what I'm saying.

TFC has done nothing "right".

They didn't even expect to sell any tickets.

They advertised to all the wrong groups, on a model that has failed over and over again in the States (soccer clubs, associations, etc.)

They hired an incompetent coach and general manager.

They built a shitty stadium with shitty turf.

I could go on.

TFC have done NOTHING right. There is no model to follow.

They were tremendously fortunate to find a fanbase they didn't know existed in Toronto and have milked those fans dry for five years. Try doing that in any other city and see how long you can do it for.

TFC didn't "save" MLS, RPB, U-Sector and NEE saved TFC.

Don't forget about diehard TFC fans (usually have to buy expensive seats to watch TFC play) who aren't part of any supporter groups. :)

P-NUTZ
06-09-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't think TFC FO deserves any credit as great marketers. In terms of TFC's initial buzz they were lucky, not smart.

The soccer market came to them, they didn't find it.

There are so many things that fell into MLSE's lap that you can not give them credit for.

-The CSA/3 different levels of government gifted MLSE an essentially free stadium, with out that TFC doesn't even get off the ground.
-For the initial season ticket drive there was very little marketing, it was the grass roots soccer base that drove the numbers to about 7000.
-The Beckham announcement pushed the season tickets to 14,000 and helped create a little buzz for the team.
-The first few home games, culminating in the Dichio goal gave this team a buzz as a great place to go.

This club has lived off those initial few weeks of the 2007 season for nearly 5 years now.

But whenever they have had to do real work and market this team it has not been successful at all.

I don't give them any credit for marketing.

The only thing I give them credit for is ruining something special that was handed to them on silver platter.

^ i think thats well put.

P-NUTZ
06-09-2011, 11:11 AM
That's what I'm saying.

TFC has done nothing "right".

They didn't even expect to sell any tickets.

They advertised to all the wrong groups, on a model that has failed over and over again in the States (soccer clubs, associations, etc.)

They hired an incompetent coach and general manager.

They built a shitty stadium with shitty turf.

I could go on.

TFC have done NOTHING right. There is no model to follow.

They were tremendously fortunate to find a fanbase they didn't know existed in Toronto and have milked those fans dry for five years. Try doing that in any other city and see how long you can do it for.

TFC didn't "save" MLS, RPB, U-Sector and NEE saved TFC.

^ this is correct as well

eustacchio
06-09-2011, 11:20 AM
All this because of Alexi Lalas making fun of us? Can someone find that old pic of him with his ridiculous hair and guitar and tell me how serious i need to take what he says?

The guy slide tackles buffalos, I think that's pretty serious.

:D

C.Ronaldo
06-09-2011, 11:26 AM
it should be about the bottom line,
just not short term though, as MLSE has tried to do.

it should have been an organic, slower, long term growth plan.

C.Ronaldo
06-09-2011, 11:28 AM
Don't forget about diehard TFC fans (usually have to buy expensive seats to watch TFC play) who aren't part of any supporter groups. :)

i was once die hard, streamers, costumes, chants.

alas, MLSE has killed that spirit.


kind of hard to support when you are forced to sit 95% of the game

drexel10
06-09-2011, 11:37 AM
Don't forget about diehard TFC fans (usually have to buy expensive seats to watch TFC play) who aren't part of any supporter groups. :)

Yup there are many of us that spend 1K a season hoping for something to cheer for.

james
06-09-2011, 11:39 AM
That's what I'm saying.

TFC has done nothing "right".

They didn't even expect to sell any tickets.

They advertised to all the wrong groups, on a model that has failed over and over again in the States (soccer clubs, associations, etc.)

They hired an incompetent coach and general manager.

They built a shitty stadium with shitty turf.

I could go on.

TFC have done NOTHING right. There is no model to follow.

They were tremendously fortunate to find a fanbase they didn't know existed in Toronto and have milked those fans dry for five years. Try doing that in any other city and see how long you can do it for.

TFC didn't "save" MLS, RPB, U-Sector and NEE saved TFC.

well thats is very true. well said!

mastermixer
06-09-2011, 11:45 AM
It's barely been mentioned that MLSE has let this team be mismanaged from the beginning. Maybe if we had the plan we do now from the beginning those seats would be full every game.
Too little too late? Possibly.

ilikemusic
06-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I was actually thinking of the fact that this league was going nowhere fast. When TFC joined the league if I remember correctly the league was in serious financial trouble and it seemed that almost yearly a team would fold. The support this team received from it's fan base rejuvenated MLS and it showed fans in america that the authentic soccer experience could be replicated in MLS. It took a canadian team to do it. I submit that without the toronto success there would be no philly or portland or seattle or vancouver etc. In my opinion this league would ahve been done without TFC overwhelming success. (financially anyways)


WTF are you talking about? Do you write copy for Paul Berine?

menefreghista
06-09-2011, 12:08 PM
It's barely been mentioned that MLSE has let this team be mismanaged from the beginning. Maybe if we had the plan we do now from the beginning those seats would be full every game.
Too little too late? Possibly.

This is a good point.

A lot of us talk about there needing to be a drop in prices. But these guys are so arrogant that I think they believe they can keep the prices the same and winning alone would bring fans back.

Although who even knows when this team will be more competitive?

Alixir
06-09-2011, 12:12 PM
I am kinda happy that these guys tweeted that...maybe it will get back to MLSE about how comical this team is. But then again MLSE have thick skin so they'll just let it roll like water off a ducks back. You gotta have thick skin when every team you own is horse fecal matter.

DangerRed
06-09-2011, 12:17 PM
See Beirne's response to this?

Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#!/Paulbeirne) Paul Beirne @



@alexilalas22 (http://twitter.com/alexilalas22) HEY. WE CAN HEAR YOU. BE NICE.

7 Jun (http://twitter.com/#!/Paulbeirne/status/78292520295071745)

Hahahaha. All is well in TFC land.

Suds
06-09-2011, 12:18 PM
This is a good point.

A lot of us talk about there needing to be a drop in prices. But these guys are so arrogant that I think they believe they can keep the prices the same and winning alone would bring fans back.

Although who even knows when this team will be more competitive?

To be fair, there is some truth to that. Winning teams always bring in casual fans and bandwagon jumpers.

The issue I have is that counting on a team winning as the key to your revenue is crazy because most teams finish out of first place more than they do in it. And in TFC's case, I do not think just slightly above a .500 record is going to bring in tons of fans. If TFC is counting on winning for revenue, well, whoever signed off on that business plan is nuts - or whoever sold the plan is awesome!

TFC07
06-09-2011, 12:19 PM
WTF are you talking about? Do you write copy for Paul Berine?

Actually he's right. TFC bought a spark that was desperately needed in MLS. Some may agrue and say TFC did more for MLS than Beckham has so far. A lot of newer teams coming in MLS are looking at TFC and see how they got it right. Philly, Seattle and even Vancouver had some sort help from TFC FO.

habstfc
06-09-2011, 12:23 PM
Perhaps I used the wrong word "saved". There is no denying this league was stagnant, especially from a supporter standpoint, before TFC came into this league. If toronto came in and was just another team with 12 or 13,000 people showing up every week sitting on their hands then what I'm saying is the "domino" effect of seattle and philly and portland, vancouver probably would have ever happened. Part of the reason those teams wanted in was because of the way the supporters in this city brought it up another notch. I'm not even giving mlse credit but they do deserve some. Everything from where bmo was built to rpb and u sector and nee and a bunch of other things deserve credit but to say this league would be in this position without this team getting the ball rolliing is completely wrong.

Back to shitting on everything TFC now....

ManUtd4ever
06-09-2011, 12:25 PM
Actually he's right. TFC bought a spark that was desperately needed in MLS. Some may agrue and say TFC did more for MLS than Beckham has so far. A lot of newer teams coming in MLS are looking at TFC and see how they got it right. Philly, Seattle and even Vancouver had some sort help from TFC FO.

I can certainly agree with this sentiment, but it wasn't by design on the part of MLSE. In a sense, it was the TFC supporters that raised the bar in MLS after the inception of the franchise despite the lacklustre efforts of MLSE.

james
06-09-2011, 12:44 PM
This is a good point.

A lot of us talk about there needing to be a drop in prices. But these guys are so arrogant that I think they believe they can keep the prices the same and winning alone would bring fans back.

Although who even knows when this team will be more competitive?

i bet they do to. But when your hard core fans arent even buying tickets like many rpbs and usec are starting to do now you are in some deep shit in the near future. If they dont lower prices next year there will be a huge drop off in ticket sales, and everyone probably knows this except for MLSE FO!!!:facepalm:

Beach_Red
06-09-2011, 01:01 PM
It's barely been mentioned that MLSE has let this team be mismanaged from the beginning. Maybe if we had the plan we do now from the beginning those seats would be full every game.
Too little too late? Possibly.


It's pretty much what they did, they just went with a different consultant (and didn't call it that, but it's pretty much what it looks like, First Wave instead of Soccer Solutions).

And we're still just hoping this works out, it may not and we'll back to square one.

Yohan
06-09-2011, 01:04 PM
i bet they do to. But when your hard core fans arent even buying tickets like many rpbs and usec are starting to do now you are in some deep shit in the near future. If they dont lower prices next year there will be a huge drop off in ticket sales, and everyone probably knows this except for MLSE FO!!!:facepalm:

The fo is still banking on a winning team will bring bums back on seats

mastermixer
06-09-2011, 01:17 PM
See Beirne's response to this?

Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#!/Paulbeirne) Paul Beirne @



@alexilalas22 (http://twitter.com/alexilalas22) HEY. WE CAN HEAR YOU. BE NICE.

7 Jun (http://twitter.com/#!/Paulbeirne/status/78292520295071745)

Hahahaha. All is well in TFC land.

I'm glad Mr Beirne is aware of this. He must know he needs to fix this image of TFC quick.

ryan
06-09-2011, 01:57 PM
The fo is still banking on a winning team will bring bums back on seats

It will, but they'll come out to a flagless not so rowdy atmosphere cause MLSE ran the loyals out of town...and then find out they really don't like soccer as much as they thought.

Pessimism, it's what's for lunch. :drinking:

Mikey
06-09-2011, 02:33 PM
A day or so ago there was a discussion on whether TFC was the worst MLS team ever. I think you could make a pretty compelling argument that they are.


I think technically we have to wait until they fail to make the playoffs this year. Then I believe they will be the only team to not make the playoffs in 5 years. I will be sending the largest wooden spoon I can find to Anselmi, engraved with my congratulations on being Major league Soccer's biggest EVER loser.

Where it gets intersting is if you think they are likely to make the playoffs anytime in the next 5 years, or if you think Vancouver or Montreal wont make the playoffs in under 5 and counting.

It's not TFC fans that should be attending games with brown bags on their heads, it the MLSE management team that should be wearing them.

Roogsy
06-09-2011, 02:49 PM
MLSE did do a few things id give them credit for.

1) The team name and badge and jersey was the best thing they ever did. They didnt follow the USA typical sport name like the Lions or dragons shit and they made the badge and name look very English, giving fans a sense that this team was going to be a propperly pro team.

2) the scarfs that came with season packages was well done, it did help build the atmsohpere at the beginning of games, something new in MLS at the time. Made me think of games youd see at Liverpool or Celtic.

3) MLSE helped make BMO a bit more like Euro stadiums with the white seats creatting a maple leaf and the words Toronto and BMO, it gave you a feelling like it was a real stadium just for Toronto FC.

4) ticket prices were well done in the first season, and made the cheapest seats behind the goals to help make the supporters section possible for groups to get organized in that section.

5) advertising in year 1 was good if anyone can remember them, i remember the commercial with Jimmy B headding the ball all the way through it. They were clean and easy, but at same time not jumping down your throat like the commercials that followed in the later years with BMO selling the fans as if we were some sort of warriors:picard:

6) Handing out those coushins which i thot was stupid at first turned out to be a great decision and sure created one of TFC best memory. Was greate on TV and great pictures in the papper of it. When people saw that they just thot TFC fans were mad.

7) Having those 2 giant TFC banners we use to pass around the stadium was quite cool at the time, before supporters even had time to organize our own tifos it made it feel more like you were in a europe stadium and it really got the fans into, some had never seen things like that before.

8) got real grass!

however thats probably just about it, it was mainly all in year 1, after year 1 i dont know what the fuck happened. Seems as if the FO did everything wrong after that point and ticket price increase vs shit quality on the field was the worst of them all. The FO seemed to even start fighting against the supporters something that created the team. The supporter groups were created without MLSE. The singing, chanting, tifos, flag waving, marching to the stadium, streammer throwing was all done with no help from MLSE. The only positive thing they did was let us bring flags, streammers and giant banners into the stadium, something they dont even seem to let us do that these days.

Now i think new teams look at what Seattle does to attract fans, how to work with fans and create that hype. New teams probably just hold Toronto up as a model on what not to do to scare fans away and fuck it all up.


I will wholeheartedly agree with this. TFC did start off on the correct footing and then proceeded to shoot themselves in the foot with each subsequent step (and season).

Red CB Toronto
06-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I just go the games to have fun and have a good time, enjoying a few beers and the footy. At the end of the day, I can't control what happens on the pitch and to tell you the truth it really is not my concern who they sign and don't, it truely is our choice to be there and if we decide, just don't show up.

Sports is a fun time out and that is what it is suppose to be, the only way you can get involved in the change is to get a job with the MLSE and make your moves. Having done that is the past, working for two profesional football teams of the american variety, I know how much ego drives certain people and it is not pretty at times, good people get caught in the fire and take unwarranted crap.

Sports is what we make out of it, I really sometime wonder why people get so heated up over something they truely do not control. I guess it is letting a bit of steam, but have fun, because if you are not, whats the point.

Fort York Redcoat
06-09-2011, 03:16 PM
Actually, it was not Alexi Lalas. It was a baseball columnist for ESPN News responding to him. That's how far our reputation as a crap team has traveled. :(

You see our bad reputation growing, I see a baseball columnist and Lalas talking and take that for what it's worth.

mastermixer
06-09-2011, 03:27 PM
I just go the games to have fun and have a good time, enjoying a few beers and the footy. At the end of the day, I can't control what happens on the pitch and to tell you the truth it really is not my concern who they sign and don't, it truely is our choice to be there and if we decide, just don't show up.

Sports is a fun time out and that is what it is suppose to be, the only way you can get involved in the change is to get a job with the MLSE and make your moves. Having done that is the past, working for two profesional football teams of the american variety, I know how much ego drives certain people and it is not pretty at times, good people get caught in the fire and take unwarranted crap.

Sports is what we make out of it, I really sometime wonder why people get so heated up over something they truely do not control. I guess it is letting a bit of steam, but have fun, because if you are not, whats the point.

If it was just about "having fun" then there would be no empty seats at any sporting event ever. Unfortunately people like myself are emotionally involved with this team and want to see success on the field.

habstfc
06-09-2011, 03:59 PM
It will, but they'll come out to a flagless not so rowdy atmosphere cause MLSE ran the loyals out of town...and then find out they really don't like soccer as much as they thought.
. :drinking:

Are they really loyals then?

Detroit_TFC
06-09-2011, 06:28 PM
I just go the games to have fun and have a good time, enjoying a few beers and the footy. At the end of the day, I can't control what happens on the pitch and to tell you the truth it really is not my concern who they sign and don't, it truely is our choice to be there and if we decide, just don't show up.

Sports is a fun time out and that is what it is suppose to be, the only way you can get involved in the change is to get a job with the MLSE and make your moves. Having done that is the past, working for two profesional football teams of the american variety, I know how much ego drives certain people and it is not pretty at times, good people get caught in the fire and take unwarranted crap.

Sports is what we make out of it, I really sometime wonder why people get so heated up over something they truely do not control. I guess it is letting a bit of steam, but have fun, because if you are not, whats the point.

Thanks, this needed to be said.

Chevy
06-09-2011, 06:41 PM
^^ Well said. Life's too short to rag on a faceless corporate entity 24/7.

TFC Via Buffalo
06-09-2011, 06:54 PM
I just go the games to have fun and have a good time, enjoying a few beers and the footy. At the end of the day, I can't control what happens on the pitch and to tell you the truth it really is not my concern who they sign and don't, it truely is our choice to be there and if we decide, just don't show up.

Sports is a fun time out and that is what it is suppose to be, the only way you can get involved in the change is to get a job with the MLSE and make your moves. Having done that is the past, working for two profesional football teams of the american variety, I know how much ego drives certain people and it is not pretty at times, good people get caught in the fire and take unwarranted crap.

Sports is what we make out of it, I really sometime wonder why people get so heated up over something they truely do not control. I guess it is letting a bit of steam, but have fun, because if you are not, whats the point.

I'm quoting this. For as much FO crap I've gotten lately, I was so happy how all of us in 110 brought it last Saturday. I lost myself in all the bullshit and just supported. Am I happy with a lot of stuff that going on with TFC in general right now? The 2 stick Saturday spoke for itself. But I'm not going to just say "Fuck it Dude, let's go bowling." and stop showing up and supporting.

Cristiano14
06-09-2011, 08:10 PM
Hopes never dead until the gates of BMO are closed and barred
until the grass rots and dies
until the #9 peels off the wall of honour
and until the sound of wrecking balls are heard not too far in the distance
until that day we cannot give up, or else that day will come
TFC until I die

sulfur
06-09-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm quoting this. For as much FO crap I've gotten lately, I was so happy how all of us in 110 brought it last Saturday. I lost myself in all the bullshit and just supported. Am I happy with a lot of stuff that going on with TFC in general right now? The 2 stick Saturday spoke for itself. But I'm not going to just say "Fuck it Dude, let's go bowling." and stop showing up and supporting.
And I'm quoting this (as someone who was at the top of 110 last weekend, trying to "bring it").

For TBaby, RPBKatie, and I, the trips up to see games live have gotten to the point of "we're in this to see our friends, to keep in touch, and to have a good time." We've seen one halfway decent game this season (the home opener). The rest have ranged from deathly boring (v KC) to outright awful (v DC).

If it was about coming out to watch the team play good footy and do something that people might aspire to do... then we'd have stopped coming up long ago. After all, for the three of us to come, it's really quite an expensive weekend. Very.

Next time out, where will we be? Likely not 112... more likely in 110 again.

dawkins
06-09-2011, 09:17 PM
Ok guys, what the hell is going on here?? We sit here on a TFC supporters forum and bitch and complain about how bad our team is. This is supposed to be a place where we can come and talk about how we think we could make the team better.

All I am seeing here is people whine and cry abuot how we dont make the play-offs year after year. Who gives a flying F...I love going to the game and cheering on the boys. I love the excitement that I feel everytime I turn on the TV at home. I love the passion of the people standing out in the rain when the ref has walked off the field, I love sneaking out in to the dining room at my resturant just to grab a peek at the TV to see if my team is doing well. I crank up the RED CITY RAMBLERS on the way to every game. AND i cheer.. wether frei has made the save or not.

Some of you call yourself a supporter??? come on.. get a grip and stand up with the team or walk away and let me buy your seasons tickets.

Thats my 2 cents and if you have a diffrent opinion then please see me at the tail gate and I will tell you even more how I feel about some of you "SUPPORTERS"

:scarf:

Nomad
06-09-2011, 09:39 PM
Ok guys, what the hell is going on here?? We sit here on a TFC supporters forum and bitch and complain about how bad our team is. This is supposed to be a place where we can come and talk about how we think we could make the team better.

All I am seeing here is people whine and cry abuot how we dont make the play-offs year after year. Who gives a flying F...I love going to the game and cheering on the boys. I love the excitement that I feel everytime I turn on the TV at home. I love the passion of the people standing out in the rain when the ref has walked off the field, I love sneaking out in to the dining room at my resturant just to grab a peek at the TV to see if my team is doing well. I crank up the RED CITY RAMBLERS on the way to every game. AND i cheer.. wether frei has made the save or not.

Some of you call yourself a supporter??? come on.. get a grip and stand up with the team or walk away and let me buy your seasons tickets.

Thats my 2 cents and if you have a diffrent opinion then please see me at the tail gate and I will tell you even more how I feel about some of you "SUPPORTERS"

:scarf:

It's not just the fact we haven't made the playoffs, in actuality that has little to do with it. It's the fact they've taken their customers for granted, have marketed them and then charged them more, and lead us to believe that this would be our team with some real input while merely feeding us crumbs and generally ignoring our real concerns.

They took a beautiful thing that could have made them money for years and completely fucked it up in less than 5 years. It boggles the mind sometimes......

I'll tell you a thing or two about how i feel about some "enablers" wrapped up in the disguise of a supporter.

Fort York Redcoat
06-10-2011, 06:21 AM
It's not just the fact we haven't made the playoffs, in actuality that has little to do with it. It's the fact they've taken their customers for granted, have marketed them and then charged them more, and lead us to believe that this would be our team with some real input while merely feeding us crumbs and generally ignoring our real concerns.

They took a beautiful thing that could have made them money for years and completely fucked it up in less than 5 years. It boggles the mind sometimes......

I'll tell you a thing or two about how i feel about some "enablers" wrapped up in the disguise of a supporter.

While you make some good points here I have to challenge your calling out the enabler supporter that seemingly is to blame for FO status quo. The attitude that all is well in respect to club and support is so far gone that I can't believe those in charge are deluded enough to think nothing's wrong. It's more an issue of how much time they will get to try and make it right.

The aspect of real input is a bigger stretch then what has been offered here before. Having sitdowns with clubs(franchises) here is a long way from input in, for example, Italy and we have to do a lot more to prove how different we are from the "fans" that are the owners real priority- The corporate boxes and typical high range price but low range interest N.A. fan.

koryo
06-10-2011, 07:13 AM
Ok guys, what the hell is going on here?? We sit here on a TFC supporters forum and bitch and complain about how bad our team is. This is supposed to be a place where we can come and talk about how we think we could make the team better.

All I am seeing here is people whine and cry abuot how we dont make the play-offs year after year. Who gives a flying F...I love going to the game and cheering on the boys. I love the excitement that I feel everytime I turn on the TV at home. I love the passion of the people standing out in the rain when the ref has walked off the field, I love sneaking out in to the dining room at my resturant just to grab a peek at the TV to see if my team is doing well. I crank up the RED CITY RAMBLERS on the way to every game. AND i cheer.. wether frei has made the save or not.

Some of you call yourself a supporter??? come on.. get a grip and stand up with the team or walk away and let me buy your seasons tickets.

Thats my 2 cents and if you have a diffrent opinion then please see me at the tail gate and I will tell you even more how I feel about some of you "SUPPORTERS"

:scarf:

People are more frustrated, and rightly so, with the reasons behind why we don't make the playoffs - not that we don't make the playoffs.

While we're at it: a forum, by its definition, is a meeting place where ideas are exchanged - not for a lecture on what constitutes "real support" (which, by the way, isn't just about having all the accessories and following the crowd). So leave the high horse at the door in future.

There's a good lad.

Fort York Redcoat
06-10-2011, 07:42 AM
People are more frustrated, and rightly so, with the reasons behind why we don't make the playoffs - not that we don't make the playoffs.

While we're at it: a forum, by its definition, is a meeting place where ideas are exchanged - not for a lecture on what constitutes "real support" (which, by the way, isn't just about having all the accessories and following the crowd). So leave the high horse at the door in future.

There's a good lad.


Ok guys, what the hell is going on here?? We sit here on a TFC supporters forum and bitch and complain about how bad our team is. This is supposed to be a place where we can come and talk about how we think we could make the team better.

All I am seeing here is people whine and cry abuot how we dont make the play-offs year after year. Who gives a flying F...I love going to the game and cheering on the boys. I love the excitement that I feel everytime I turn on the TV at home. I love the passion of the people standing out in the rain when the ref has walked off the field, I love sneaking out in to the dining room at my resturant just to grab a peek at the TV to see if my team is doing well. I crank up the RED CITY RAMBLERS on the way to every game. AND i cheer.. wether frei has made the save or not.


^This is great to hear and a minority on this board.



Some of you call yourself a supporter??? come on.. get a grip and stand up with the team or walk away and let me buy your seasons tickets.

Thats my 2 cents and if you have a diffrent opinion then please see me at the tail gate and I will tell you even more how I feel about some of you "SUPPORTERS"

:scarf:

^This can definitely be left out next time but don't let this be your last .02

Parkdale
06-10-2011, 07:51 AM
Yes. We both were on Simon's board, along with Batman and a few others.


Hi there !!

---

To give a quick summary:

Toronto FC entered MLS at the perfect time.

This city was ready for the sport, and the league needed a 'model fanbase' like ours.
We (the collective support) showed the league how things could be, and they
took the best parts and applied it to new franchises. I honestly believe that
if TFC hadn't worked out so well, that Seattle, Philly, Portland wouldn't be where they are.
We showed the league (and sports media - advertisers) that FOOTBALL was a real force.

Sadly, our owners have no idea how to run a winning (or even competent) team,
so now the dark stain of our shitty record has tainted our reputation.
Toronto FC was the spark that lit the way for this new era of MLS.
Sadly, we still haven't been able to cook anything over that fire.

maninb
06-10-2011, 07:55 AM
"get a grip and stand up with the team or walk away and let me buy your seasons tickets"????? LOL!

That's EXACTLY the type of "supporter" MLSE wants....somebody who'll leave his brain behind, come to the game no matter how bad the team is, and no matter how expensive it is.....no thanks mate...

ryan
06-10-2011, 08:09 AM
Are they really loyals then?

I'd imagine they are still watching the match at the pub. You can't harp on a loyal fan for refusing to eat shit from terrible ownership.

Mikey
06-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Some of you call yourself a supporter??? come on.. get a grip and stand up with the team or walk away and let me buy your seasons tickets.


My tickets are available....
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=28224

TFC/Everton
06-10-2011, 04:27 PM
Toronto FC did as much for this league as David Beckham did.

Had to be said.


Expansion fees are one thing and the revenue share on operating income was another.

Forbes had only 3 teams posting a profit in 2007-08. TFC was 2nd, behind the Galaxy.

All of this financial success was predicated on 2007-08 price levels. Greed has destroyed what was once a very positive thing.

Shakes McQueen
06-11-2011, 04:35 AM
Y'know, without commenting on the subject of this thread, I'd just like to say that I couldn't give a shit less what Alexi Lalas has to say about Toronto FC. Him, of all people, taking shots at the performance of an MLS team, is so rich that reading it may have given me diabetes.

- Scott

menefreghista
06-11-2011, 07:57 AM
Y'know, without commenting on the subject of this thread, I'd just like to say that I couldn't give a shit less what Alexi Lalas has to say about Toronto FC. Him, of all people, taking shots at the performance of an MLS team, is so rich that reading it may have given me diabetes.

- Scott

He didn't make the comments....

Fort York Redcoat
06-11-2011, 09:01 AM
He didn't make the comments....

No someone who probably knows even less about the game did. To someone he doesn't give a shit about.

Blazer
06-11-2011, 09:08 AM
A day or so ago there was a discussion on whether TFC was the worst MLS team ever. I think you could make a pretty compelling argument that they are.

I think you really do need to go to other sports to relate to the kind of ineptitude TFC has delivered over its 5 year existence.

What other teams have a financial advantage over their league counterparts but are perennially shit? The Mets in baseball?

Mets made the playoffs in 2006. In baseball terms, that’s not bad. Comparing it to soccer, it’s not nearly as dreadful or pathetic as this thing called TFC. I didn’t follow MLS soccer before we got the franchise but if there ever was a more terrible organization than this one, I hope god blessed those poor poor bastards.

This team is a joke. Laughable really. They will fall the way of the box lacross Toronto Nationals before long.

mastermixer
06-11-2011, 09:09 AM
No someone who probably knows even less about the game did. To someone he doesn't give a shit about.

Doesn't that make it worse? The fact that you don't need to know much about MLS to know that TFC is horrible.

deeznutz
06-11-2011, 05:05 PM
Yawn


Can't get any worse!






























Can it?

Whoop
06-11-2011, 05:47 PM
This team is a joke. Laughable really. They will fall the way of the box lacross Toronto Nationals before long.

LOL

Toronto Rock = box lacrosse
Toronto Nationals = field lacrosse

TFC is on the same trajectory as the Rock... but at least the Rock won.

Shakes McQueen
06-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Mets made the playoffs in 2006. In baseball terms, that’s not bad. Comparing it to soccer, it’s not nearly as dreadful or pathetic as this thing called TFC. I didn’t follow MLS soccer before we got the franchise but if there ever was a more terrible organization than this one, I hope god blessed those poor poor bastards.

This team is a joke. Laughable really. They will fall the way of the box lacross Toronto Nationals before long.

TFC's entire existence has occurred since the last time the Mets made the playoffs, in other words.

TFC might be the "worst MLS team ever", but that's more a testament to how young the league is, and not much else. Seriously, if your league's "worst team ever" missed the playoffs on the last game of the season a couple of years ago, and has existed for six years, your league hasn't been around very long.

And then you have to look at your metrics for what constitutes "bad". The Chicago Cubs haven't won a world series since the Earth was young, but they've had lots of playoff appearances in that time. Which do people remember more?

There are probably MLS teams with more "bad" years than TFC, by virtue of having existed longer. Of course, TFC has only had "bad" years so far.

- Scott

Roogsy
06-11-2011, 06:12 PM
TFC's entire existence has occurred since the last time the Mets made the playoffs, in other words.

TFC might be the "worst MLS team ever", but that's more a testament to how young the league is, and not much else. Seriously, if your league's "worst team ever" missed the playoffs on the last game of the season a couple of years ago, and has existed for six years, your league hasn't been around very long.

And then you have to look at your metrics for what constitutes "bad". The Chicago Cubs haven't won a world series since the Earth was young, but they've had lots of playoff appearances in that time. Which do people remember more?

There are probably MLS teams with more "bad" years than TFC, by virtue of having existed longer. Of course, TFC has only had "bad" years so far.

- Scott

I think this is excusing their performance a bit. The measure most people seem to be using as a general gauge is consecutive years of ineptitude. Sure a team with 100 years of existance will have more bad years because of sheer numbers. But how many teams have been as inept as TFC right from the beginning and had no success at all for it's entire existance? None in MLS, which should be the primary measure of judgement.

Shakes McQueen
06-11-2011, 06:21 PM
I think this is excusing their performance a bit. The measure most people seem to be using as a general gauge is consecutive years of ineptitude. Sure a team with 100 years of existance will have more bad years because of sheer numbers. But how many teams have been as inept as TFC right from the beginning and had no success at all for it's entire existance? None in MLS, which should be the primary measure of judgement.

You didn't really debate any point I made. I never said anything about 100 year old teams having more bad years than TFC - MLS has existed since the 90's, and I said there are probably MLS teams that have had more combined bad years than TFC.

I also acknowledged that TFC has only had bad years so far, but said that fact isn't as incredible when you consider the fact that "entire existence" means less than six full seasons.

I even opened my post by saying it may be true that TFC are the worst MLS team ever, before I tried to contextualize the discussion more. I didn't excuse anything.

- Scott