Cann Injured

[flamehawk]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/05/cann-injured-training

Oh dear, could things get any worse?

With Cann injured, and Dicoy Williams out for most of June at the Gold Cup, we're left with Attakora, Henry - who I am not quite sure is ready for this level, and friggin Harden. When can we start signing players again?

[TFCRegina]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/05/cann-injured-training

Oh dear, could things get any worse?

With Cann injured, and Dicoy Williams out for most of June at the Gold Cup, we're left with Attakora, Henry - who I am not quite sure is ready for this level, and friggin Harden. When can we start signing players again?

Oh boy, I'm excited for the Henry-Harden pairing! Attakora, naturally, will not be performing well enough to start.

[Gazza]

Might have to put Eckersley in the middle.

[rocktml]

Is there a list of free agents?

[TFCRegina]

Is there a list of free agents?

Yeah, it's called do your own research. This is like the 5th time you've posted it.

Clearly there's no list of free agents. Nobody has provided one. Stop spamming.

[menefreghista]

Is there a list of free agents?

Has this replaced the media guide question?

[Mexinese]

Do you actually believe he is injured? I'd say another TFC lie.... clearly Winter doesnt like him....unfortunatly

[jabbronies]

Do you actually believe he is injured? I'd say another TFC lie.... clearly Winter doesnt like him....unfortunatly

Paranoid much...

[TFC Cityboy]

hey - can we play the scout from a few years back...wassisname? he was half decent.

[prizby]

Has this replaced the media guide question?

no...u can find the list in the media guide

[Phil]

Did I hear Garcia is on the cheap?

LOL

[Dave67]

hey - can we play the scout from a few years back...wassisname? he was half decent.

Reagan or Regan, something like that.

[Davenport]

Might have to put Eckersley in the middle.
I would anyway.

[Red Rat]

Bring back Garcia...

[TFC OZZ]

hey - can we play the scout from a few years back...wassisname? he was half decent.

Tim Regan

[Torontotonto]

Might have to put Eckersley in the middle.

I could live with that...

[jloome]

Yeah, it's called do your own research. This is like the 5th time you've posted it.

Clearly there's no list of free agents. Nobody has provided one. Stop spamming.

Yeah there is. It's in the post about Robert pires.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=28204

[Whoop]

Cann out for the year.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/05/adrian-cann-out-season

[Brooker]

^^^ Yeah this news is about par for our course.

[Rhapido]

Unbelievable. If Attakora doesn't get a regular start now, he should just quit.

[reggie]

im sorry to hear that.
but im shocked that we actually got news from the club about a player..wow.
the V year nightmare continues.

[pekduck]

Unbelievable. If Attakora doesn't get a regular start now, he should just quit.


“I can confirm that Adrian has torn his ACL and will miss the rest of the season,” said Toronto FC Head Coach and Technical Director, Aron Winter. “It is a disappointment because Adrian has had a good start to the season and has been playing well, we will certainly miss his presence in the line-up. While it is difficult we do have players on the roster that are capable of stepping up such as Nana Attakora.”

let's hope so. Nana hasn't been impressive lately, but we could use anyone at the moment

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

30-year-old, big, slow guy tears his ACL. Retirement is a possibility. Sucks.

[prizby]

well would this open up a roster spot?

[rocktml]

Cann Out For Season

[TFCin110]

He's out until at least this time next year. The rehab alone for an ACL for a pro athlete is a good year.

[Couchy81]

damn

[Auzzy]

Crap! I hope Adrian recovers as well & as quickly as possible. That's awful, seeing him carried off the pitch like that, in the video on the TFC website. Thankfully we'll have a proper practice facility soon, so they don't have to train on plastic as often.

I imagine this may open up roster and/or cap space for the balance of the season -- never sure about the rules concerning long-term injuries. (I hope I don't get in trouble for not looking up the info myself... :D )

[TFCin110]

Crap! I hope Adrian recovers as well & as quickly as possible. That's awful, seeing him carried off the pitch like that, in the video on the TFC website. Thankfully we'll have a proper practice facility soon, so they don't have to train on plastic as often.

I imagine this may open up roster and/or cap space for the balance of the season -- never sure about the rules concerning long-term injuries. (I hope I don't get in trouble for not looking up the info myself... :D )

I tore my ACL in January playing indoor. My surgeon told me soccer is the worst sport for ACL injuries because of the twisting and turning. He said playing soccer on a field turf is a recipe for disaster.

He told me after my surgery i'll be able to go back to doing my full duties at work after at least 6 months. He said I wouldn't be able to play sports for a year. With the demands of playing pro soccer and knowing how long the likes of Roy Keane and others with ACL injuries were out, i'd say he faces a lenghtly layoff.

[ryan]

Terrible news.

I wanted a CB in the next transfer window to be paired with Cann, not replace him.

[werewolf]

Good thing he renegotiated his contract... :leaving:

[bgnewf]

Adrian Cann Gone For The Season

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/05/adrian-cann-acl/

TFC suffer another blow as 2010 club MVP Adrian Cann is gone for the season with an ACL injury.

[TFCRegina]

Do you realize you're an asshole or do you think it's everyone else with a problem? I've been meaning to ask you for some time now.

Such a pleasant fellow aren't you.

Really enjoy building my ignore list this year.

[Stryker]

Shitty deal for everyone. I remember when Cann first started playing for us... felt like striking oil having found a good defender with a modest salary.

[rocker]

Awful news. Too bad MLS doesn't provide some cap relief in these situations.

[TFCRegina]

Awful news. Too bad MLS doesn't provide some cap relief in these situations.

Completely agree.

And it's too bad that Cann's career is very likely finished.

[habstfc]

Do you realize you're an asshole or do you think it's everyone else with a problem? I've been meaning to ask you for some time now.

There are a few of them in here.

[JonO]

Sorry for Cann. I'm sure he's disappointed. Really amazes me that MLS rules still stick us with his salary against the cap though.

[andyc]

I just hope that Cann's new deal is guaranteed for next year... If not he's rehabbing while on EI....

[Couchy81]

I just hope that Cann's new deal is guaranteed for next year... If not he's rehabbing while on EI....

As someone who rehabbed on EI in 2009, I hope so too

[Auzzy]

Awful news. Too bad MLS doesn't provide some cap relief in these situations.

Wow, you're serious, no cap relief?

But roster spot relief, right??? !!!

[sashavukelich]

There is cap relief guys!!!

He goes on Season-Ending Injury list doesn't he, and then only 1/2 of his Salary counts against he cap. I'm almost certain that's how MLS cap rules work. How is our other Chronic Knee injury?

Good thing the window opens tomorrow boys, lets hope some of our rumours are true. Paul Stalteri has never looked so good. lol

[DangerRed]

Such a pleasant fellow aren't you.

Really enjoy building my ignore list this year.

Add me to your ignore list too, because I agree with Stryker -- you're consistently looking down your nose at people around here and it makes you sound cuntish. Not calling you a cunt, just your behaviour. Kind of like i'd not call you an idiot, but I'd call your ideas stupid.

On topic: it's a tough loss, but the way he's been playing of late, it's more a depth loss rather than of any serious talent. I think he's out of form and hasn't contributed as well as he is capable. That said, now we have cap space tied up in two players injured for the balance of the season. Fucking bad luck, that.

[Stryker]

There is cap relief guys!!!

He goes on Season-Ending Injury list doesn't he, and then only 1/2 of his Salary counts against he cap. I'm almost certain that's how MLS cap rules work.

Afraid not man. I also thought the half season salary rule applied here but was wrong.

Section II(k)
http://www.mlssoccer.com/2011-mls-roster-rules


SEASON-ENDING INJURY REPLACEMENTS
A team with a player lost to a season-ending injury can replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the season-ending injury list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).

[CretanBull]

I just hope that Cann's new deal is guaranteed for next year... If not he's rehabbing while on EI....

An insurance policy will cover the remaining value on his contract for this season, but if I remember correctly the 3rd and 4th years of his deal were team options.

[sashavukelich]

^^^ thanks for the actual rule Stryker...i would have bet had i not seen it in writing by 'responsible for the full amount of the injured players salary' do they mean CAP responsible or just responsible to not 'fire'/cut an injured player?

[ensco]

I'm shocked by that cap rule - I thought we would get half season relief too.

I guess the league must have had a problem, or must be worried it could have a problem, with guys and teams in cahoots to fake injuries and do buyouts while still getting cap relief.

End result, we are screwed by it.

[Stryker]

^^^ thanks for the actual rule Stryker...i would have bet had i not seen it in writing by 'responsible for the full amount of the injured players salary' do they mean CAP responsible or just responsible to not 'fire'/cut an injured player?

You're welcome. I imagine it means the team is cap responsible but you're right the wording isn't very precise. That's MLS for you.

[CretanBull]

You're welcome. I imagine it means the team is cap responsible but you're right the wording isn't very precise. That's MLS for you.

The condition that a replacement player can be signed "provided the team has budget space" leads me to believe that the injured player's salary still counts against the cap.

[ManUtd4ever]

Very unfortunate news for TFC, and even worse news for Cann. It will be difficult for him to fully recover from such a devastating injury at this stage of his career.

Now that Williams will be departing for the Gold Cup, the backline is officially in crisis mode. I hope Nana is ready to step up.

[dupont]

This is the worst... as if our defence wasn't bad enough already.

[Hamilton_Red]

Does any one know where we are with respect to the cap? We must have tones of cap space with Dero gone?

[CretanBull]

^ I don't know the exact number off hand, but we have a decent amount of cap space (like $200k-$300k?).

[Stryker]

Does any one know where we are with respect to the cap? We must have tones of cap space with Dero gone?
I just did the math and came up with a number in the 360,000's.
That does not include allocation and its unknown if we're paying any of Barrett or DeRo's salary.


--------------------------------------------
Stevanovic - 250,000
JDG - 345,000
Peterson - 150,000
Current unused - 360,000

Total free cap a smart manager could head into the offseason with = 1.05 million + allocation.

[JonO]

^^^ thanks for the actual rule Stryker...i would have bet had i not seen it in writing by 'responsible for the full amount of the injured players salary' do they mean CAP responsible or just responsible to not 'fire'/cut an injured player?
I think it would have to mean cap responsible, since the league actually pays the players, not the team, no?

[QSIM]

3-5-2.

Total Football.

[sashavukelich]

I just did the math and came up with a number in the 360,000's.
That does not include allocation and its unknown if we're paying any of Barrett or DeRo's salary.


--------------------------------------------
Stevanovic - 250,000
JDG - 345,000
Peterson - 150,000
Current unused - 360,000

Total free cap a smart manager could head into the offseason with = 1.05 million + allocation.




again this is where my mind was in terms of space. I can't believe peterson makes what he makes.....that's a negotiation embarrassment. As soon as we release him we can sign a difference maker. Thereby we could have 500,000 in cap space with him gone, that's be wonderful.

[denime]

^ I don't know the exact number off hand, but we have a decent amount of cap space (like $200k-$300k?).

I think 600K was the number mentioned here few days ago.

[CretanBull]

That does not include allocation and its unknown if we're paying any of Barrett or DeRo's salary.


In both deals it was reported that we're paying some part of each of their salaries. The NY Post reported that TFC are paying "a significant amount" of DeRo's salary and after the Barrett trade Ives reported that TFC agreed to pay "a portion" of Barrett's salary.

[CretanBull]

I think 600K was the number mentioned here few days ago.

That seems possible. Stryker came up with a rough number of $360k. Minus what we're paying for DeRo and Barrett but add whatever allocation we have and $600k doesn't sound unreasonable.

[Sweeper]

When does the transfer window open? I read July 15th, is it really that far away? It think a DP center back was in order before the injury.

[TFCin110]

Well, Nana is going to have to step up. Forget about not playing, forget about any rift with Winter. Nana has to take his chance. As a player on the outs this is how you play yourself back into the team. Take your opportunity and give Winter a selection headache when there are other options in the backline.

[Pachuco]

Terrible news. Although I really feel Nana should be able to step right in. Replacing Harden will continue to be the problem.

[69Chevy396]

Nana is just fine, he is still the clubs best young talent. I feel bad for Cann, his career is probably over. I feel worse for us because this means Gargan plays.

[habstfc]

I guess we'll find out fairly quickly whether Winter was justified in putting Nana on the bench, the guy is going to get some playing time now. I think the loss of Cann is going to be a bigger hole to fill than some think.

[mastermixer]

No pun intended, but I hope TFC does not use injuries as a crutch to write off this season.

[ensco]

I hope TFC does not use injuries as a crutch to write off this season.

Not to worry. No need. They have a million excuses already.

[CretanBull]

When does the transfer window open? I read July 15th, is it really that far away? It think a DP center back was in order before the injury.

It's July 1st.

[menefreghista]

It's July 1st.

Its July 15th: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window

But you can sign free agents immediately. But a lot of European players have contracts that technically end on June 30th.

[denime]

July 15, six long weeks are in front of us.

[CretanBull]

Its July 15th: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window

But you can sign free agents immediately. But a lot of European players have contracts that technically end on June 30th.

The transfer date for every major European league is July 1st to August 31st. July 15th might be a MLS date, but I'm 100% sure that the transfer window in England, Spain, Italy etc is July 1st.

[RedRum]

Zero chance Cann is done professionally. The guy is absolutely fanatical about fitness, almost to the point of OCD. He will do what it takes to rehab and play again.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

TFC want him off the "books" , so he became injured....frees up a roster spot...

[jazzy]

I'd seriously take a look at Omphroy......screw it lets have some fun ......the years seriously in jeopardy........use every kid we can and make some decisions whether they fit or not, and lets get that #1 draft pick.......... is it Saad?

[Waggy]

Zero chance Cann is done professionally. The guy is absolutely fanatical about fitness, almost to the point of OCD. He will do what it takes to rehab and play again.

It's not about fitness, it's about losing a step of speed, losing some explosiveness. No matter how hard you train sometimes you just can't get that back. Thats how knee injuries derail even the best athletes, not just the lazy ones. Hope Cann is able to fully recover

[Roogsy]

let's hope so. Nana hasn't been impressive lately, but we could use anyone at the moment

It's hard to be impressive from the bench.

[BS1327]

It's too bad it's happened now of all times with Williams off to the Gold Cup. I would have liked to see him and Nana pair together. Williams was lost out there with Harden, and it would've been nice to see them together sometime before Late June/July.

[pekduck]

It's hard to be impressive from the bench.

from the games he actually played, geez roogs, lol

[Menelaos]

I still think Nana being on the bench has more to do with this contract than with his play. he was solid last year, and a player doesn't just lose his ability to this extend at his age and stage in his career.

[Derko]

let's hope so. Nana hasn't been impressive lately, but we could use anyone at the moment

Nana hasn't really had much playing time so that is an unfair statement, he can't do much worse than harden, remember for the last few years Nana was the most dependable defender we had, I hope it pans out for him. I hope Cann has a speedy recovery.

[maninb]

TFC want him off the "books" , so he became injured....frees up a roster spot...

WTF??? Are you saying Winter & TFC WANTED him injured????

[denime]

The transfer date for every major European league is July 1st to August 31st. July 15th might be a MLS date, but I'm 100% sure that the transfer window in England, Spain, Italy etc is July 1st.

July 15 is MLS transfer date.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Not a great season for Cann. Contract dispute and then this...

[Darlofletch]

Not a great season for Cann. Contract dispute and then this...

the public apology, the left back experiment and some bruised ribs in between all that.

a very rough year.

[mastermixer]

I'm not too devastated by this news. Cann seems like a great person and a great rep for TFC, but he was one of the better players on a horrible team. Not much more than that. Sure we could use him right now, but in the bigger picture I think we could do better at his position.

[ManUtd4ever]

In order to find an immediate replacement fo Cann on the backline, Perhaps Paul Mariner can acquire a relatively inexpensive, serviceable central defender within MLS via trade. I'm not familiar enough with other MLS club roster situations to make a particular suggestion, but if there are a few clubs with a surplus of decent central defenders, perhaps a 2nd or 3rd round pick might be a worthy sacrifice to fill the void in the interim.

[menefreghista]

In order to find an immediate replacement fo Cann on the backline, Perhaps Paul Mariner can acquire a relatively inexpensive, serviceable central defender within MLS via trade. I'm not familiar enough with other MLS club roster situations to make a particular suggestion, but if there are a few clubs with a surplus of decent central defenders, perhaps a 2nd or 3rd round pick might be a worthy sacrifice to fill the void in the interim.

I wonder if we could trade Sturgis for the type of guy you talk of?

Or is that just wishful thinking?

[ManUtd4ever]

I wonder if we could trade Sturgis for the type of guy you talk of?

Or is that just wishful thinking?

Long term, I think that could also be a viable option. Although I think Sturgis will be relied on heavily in JDG's absence during the Gold Cup.

[C.Ronaldo]

I'd seriously take a look at Omphroy......screw it lets have some fun ......the years seriously in jeopardy........use every kid we can and make some decisions whether they fit or not, and lets get that #1 draft pick.......... is it Saad?

agreed

put out a few young kids and let them learn.

the season is crap shoot already

[bgnewf]

With Adrian Cann gone for the year I started to think about the Voyageurs Cup replay match on July 2nd and if Adrian's injury would impact that game. If I understood what the CSA stated in the press conference after the game was called off last week they said that each club would have to use the 18 man rosters that both clubs had originally used last for the replay game on July 2nd.

And now Cann being out for the season could potentially cut TFC's roster for that match to seventeen.

I contacted the club about this one. They coaches and players all have the day off today and the CSA guys are somewhat busy with the Canada Ecuador game. I was told I would get an answer to this by tomorrow at the latest.

Stay tuned.

[Alixir]

It's not about fitness, it's about losing a step of speed, losing some explosiveness. No matter how hard you train sometimes you just can't get that back. Thats how knee injuries derail even the best athletes, not just the lazy ones. Hope Cann is able to fully recoverexactly...with an injury like this it does not matter how much of a fitness freak you are. Even though the injury can be treated it will never be 100% as there will be permenant damage.

My mother used to be a crazy fitness health freak who jogged daily went to aerobics weekly and also enjoyed rock climbing as her hobby. One day she was turning to put groceries into the trunk of the car and for some freak reason she broke the bone below the knee in 9 different places before she even hit the ground(then dislocated her shoulder). That was 3 years ago and after 7 surgeries she still walks with a limp and a cane...Bit more then tearing the ACL though.

[JonO]

The good thing for Cann is that his game has never (at least not in his time with TFC) been about speed. If he can regain aerial ability, I think he will be okay...

[Darlofletch]

With Adrian Cann gone for the year I started to think about the Voyageurs Cup replay match on July 2nd and if Adrian's injury would impact that game. If I understood what the CSA stated in the press conference after the game was called off last week they said that each club would have to use the 18 man rosters that both clubs had originally used last for the replay game on July 2nd.

And now Cann being out for the season could potentially cut TFC's roster for that match to seventeen.

I contacted the club about this one. They coaches and players all have the day off today and the CSA guys are somewhat busy with the Canada Ecuador game. I was told I would get an answer to this by tomorrow at the latest.

Stay tuned.

that was only when it looked like the game would be played the next day and the whitecaps wouldn't be able to fly out replacements, so an arbitrary judgement was made in the name of fairness that tfc should also be restricted to the same players.

Now it's a whole new time, it will go back to the original rule, that either team can play anyone on their roster. vanocuver can choose to bring anyone from their squad with them for the two game series, tfc will be able to choose anyone from their squad.

[DangerRed]

With Adrian Cann gone for the year I started to think about the Voyageurs Cup replay match on July 2nd and if Adrian's injury would impact that game. If I understood what the CSA stated in the press conference after the game was called off last week they said that each club would have to use the 18 man rosters that both clubs had originally used last for the replay game on July 2nd.

And now Cann being out for the season could potentially cut TFC's roster for that match to seventeen.

I contacted the club about this one. They coaches and players all have the day off today and the CSA guys are somewhat busy with the Canada Ecuador game. I was told I would get an answer to this by tomorrow at the latest.

Stay tuned.

Who cares? It's one spot out of 18. The impact of Cann's injury is that he can't play. Even if we still have to have a spot for him in the lineup, what's the difference?

[Redcoe15]

Geezus, when it rains shit, it pours. :facepalm:

[bgnewf]

that was only when it looked like the game would be played the next day and the whitecaps wouldn't be able to fly out replacements, so an arbitrary judgement was made in the name of fairness that tfc should also be restricted to the same players.

Now it's a whole new time, it will go back to the original rule, that either team can play anyone on their roster. vanocuver can choose to bring anyone from their squad with them for the two game series, tfc will be able to choose anyone from their squad.

You could be absolutely correct. But before I assume that your quite logical assessment of the situation is gospel I want to hear it from the CSA. I have a contact at he club tracking the definitive answer down tomorrow.

The CSA is not exactly the most logical and sensible group on earth... For fucks sakes they voted for Jack Warner and Sepp Blatter time after time.

[scooter]

so now more than ever we need to sign a centre back surely paul mariner has something in the works

[bertal]

tragic. hopefully he recovers well!

[Alixir]

Geezus, when it rains shit, it pours. :facepalm:and it doesn't look like we are getting a roof anytime soon...j/k had to.

[bgnewf]

and it doesn't look like we are getting a roof anytime soon...j/k had to.

A club official last week told me that a roof over the south and east stands (which is what they looked into supposedly) would cost upwards of $40 million. Take that for what it is worth... I have no reason to not believe the guy. He said it would be that pricey because of the need to put up something exceedingly strong because of the amount of wind they experience by the lake.

[Stryker]

A club official last week that a roof over the south and east stands (which is what they looked into supposedly) would cost upwards of $40 million. Take that for what it is worth... I have no reason to not believe the guy. He said it would be that pricey because of the need to put up something exceedingly strong because of the amount of wind they experience by the lake.

I've always thought the only chance for a roof would be in a new stadium.
I expect the timeline for that would likely coincide with the end of their current 20 year lease.

[__wowza]

I've always thought the only chance for a roof would be in a new stadium.
I expect the timeline for that would likely coincide with the end of their current 20 year lease.

5 down, 15 to go. :facepalm:

[reggie]

if it continues like this(shite futbol and price increases)it wont matter....all 2000 fans can sit in secton 224 which has a bit of a roof overhanging.

[Brooker]

if it continues like this(shite futbol and price increases)it wont matter....all 2000 fans can sit in secton 224 which has a bit of a roof overhanging.

haha no doubt about that.

[Maltese Falcon]

3-5-2.

Total Football.
Starting back 3....Gargan, Harden, and might as well try Peterson on the LB position...why not

[greatwhitenorf]

Awful injury. I know. Rehab, Schmehab. You can ride bikes and do yoga until the cows come home and still, it always aches and nags away like rust on iron, especially in winter or in cold wet weather like this spring. Begs for rest and relaxation instead of more stress. Makes simple, everyday movements suddenly complex. I fuckin' hate it.

[CSO_BBTB]

Starting back 3....Gargan, Harden, and might as well try Peterson on the LB position...why not

In a 3 you are normally looking at three rather than two centre backs plus two wingbacks pushed forward a bit into the midfield from the normal fullback sort of role in a 4. Peterson might be somewhat cut out for the wingback role but playing him in the back 3 of a 3-5-2 would be grounds not only for instant dismissal but also being held for psychiatric assessment, in my opinion. Hopefully it will be a 4 with Eckersley, Harden, Attakora, Yourassowsky and there will be a conservative Preki like approach to what happens deep in central midfield immediately in front of them at least for the first half.

[bgnewf]

Just got confirmation from TFC that the Voyageurs Cup Final 2nd Leg replay game on July 2nd can be played with different eighteen man rosters than the game that was stopped and cancelled last week.

The CSA officially confirmed to TFC today that the clubs can choose a completely different eighteen man roster if they so choose. I asked the question to them originally based on Adrian's injury and if TFC would be forced to only dress seventeen instead of eighteen for that match.

God to hear that this officially won't be a problem for either side.

[denime]

Just found out that TFC is looking for a CB within the MLS,one that can play right away,trade or just $$$ don't know.

What I do know is that NANA was put on ice becouse of his contract,and to send mesage to other players it's TFC way or reserve team.Problem is in order to send a mesage you need results and depth,we don't have aether of those too

Sorry for typos,I'm doing it from my cell.

[Roogsy]

What I do know is that NANA was put on ice becouse of his contract,and to send mesage to other players it's TFC way or reserve team.

Is there a 2 week-old echo in here? :lol: I was saying this weeks ago and people were making up excuses about "Nana must not be doing well in practice" blah blah blah. At least now you admit to the truth, although it still boggles me how readily you accept it as a supporter. Maybe I am that stupid but I thought putting out the best XI was the idea here and the contract stuff should be kept out of the lineup selection, but silly me, we're being held hostage by this organization while it muddles their way around.

[flamehawk]

What I do know is that NANA was put on ice becouse of his contract,and to send mesage to other players it's TFC way or reserve team.


That makes me fume....

[Chevy]

@Roogsie ---- Dude, you have turned into one serious troll.

We all know that the club is far from perfect but FFS give it a rest. If all you get (and attempt to generate) is misery from 'supporting' the club then maybe it's best you don't.

[Chevy]

Just found out that TFC is looking for a CB within the MLS,one that can play right away,trade or just $$$ don't know.

What I do know is that NANA was put on ice becouse of his contract,and to send mesage to other players it's TFC way or reserve team.Problem is in order to send a mesage you need results and depth,we don't have aether of those too

Sorry for typos,I'm doing it from my cell.

Regardless of Nana's situation, we need another CB right now due to Cann's injury. We're down two defenders with that and Dicoy being at the Gold Cup - time will tell if Nana get's one of those spots (probably Saturday night)

[Shakes McQueen]

Roogsy's bitterness in most of his posts is truly palpable these days, haha.

- Scott

[denime]

I have no problem to admit the truth,it is what it is.I know that's normal in this sport around the world,players 100 times better than Nana are being put on ice ,but like I said in order to do that you need depth and results if you want to prove your point.If TFC was getting better results no one here would talk about Nana,that's the life of a soccer player.

I personaly think is sad,but it's between Nana and TFC nothing we can do.I rather spend my energy on supporting the boys on the pitch than constantly fighting FO and owners.

[Roogsy]

Roogsy's bitterness in most of his posts is truly palpable these days, haha.

- Scott


Just answer me this Scott, do fans and supporters not deserve the BEST XI out there? Should we be held hostage to the contract ineptitudes of this team?

P.S. I never denied I am bitter. People just don't understand what I am bitter about or intentionally mischaracterize my bitterness.

[CretanBull]

Roogsy's bitterness in most of his posts is truly palpable these days, haha.


Here's a question that would be uncomfortable for some people to answer...how often has he been wrong? For all of the attacks and insults thrown at him, I think history has proven him to be right far more times than he's been wrong.

[Roogsy]

I've been wrong? :lol:

[denime]

Regardless of Nana's situation, we need another CB right now due to Cann's injury. We're down two defenders with that and Dicoy being at the Gold Cup - time will tell if Nana get's one of those spots (probably Saturday night)

I was told Mariner is on the phone 24/7 since Tuesday, they are looking for CB inside the league.I'm not sure how this works since no one can sign players before July 15.

[CretanBull]

I've been wrong? :lol:

About as many times as I have, which come to think of it, is never :D

[ManUtd4ever]

I always thought that Nana's performance earlier in the season was only part of the reason for his lack of playing time. Once John Molinaro broke the story regarding his contract situation, it seemed logical to assume that Winter was trying to send Nana and his agent a clear message. I didn't berate Winter's decision at the time because regardless of the circumstances, Cann and Williams deserved to start ahead of Nana based on their form.

However, at the moment, Nana is number one on the CB depth chart, and in Winter's case, I hope logic prevails over principle.

[CretanBull]

I was told Mariner is on the phone 24/7 since Tuesday, they are looking for CB inside the league.I'm not sure how this works since no one can sign players before July 15.

They can trade within the league at any time, the July 15th date only applies to signing players from other leagues or players who are currently without a contract.

[CretanBull]

At the moment, Nana is automatically number one on the CB depth chart, and in Winter's case, I hope logic prevails over principle.

Maybe Winter should be hoping that Nana is still willing to play for him and TFC and isn't "injured".

[Whoop]

But as a supporter while we would like the team to put out the best XI, we can't control that.

That's why I can complain about player selections, and throw my hands in the air, but at the end of the day, it's not going to change the coach's mind.

It's like that in any sport, all around the world.

Now you can probably put some pressure on the FO to fire the coach... but to get the FO to pressure the coach to play player x, y, z... most coaches will just quit on the spot.

[ManUtd4ever]

Maybe Winter should be hoping that Nana is still willing to play for him and TFC and isn't "injured".

I don't recall Winter ever making a false statement that Nana was injured.

In any case, regardless of what has transpired between Winter and Attakora, I think this is an absurd comment, and I think you know it as well.

[CretanBull]

I don't recall Winter ever making a false statement that Nana was injured.

In any case, regardless of what has transpired between Winter and Attakora, I think this is an absurd comment, and I think you know it as well.

You've misunderstood me. I was saying that after the way Winter has mistreated Nana and threatened his career, Winter better hope that Nana is still willing to play for him now that he's desparately needed (and doesn't fake an injury to screw him right back).

[Shakes McQueen]

Here's a question that would be uncomfortable for some people to answer...how often has he been wrong? For all of the attacks and insults thrown at him, I think history has proven him to be right far more times than he's been wrong.

Actually, as is the case here, history has proven that Roogsy is quick to point out when other people come around to his point of view - which is perfectly fine, but bringing someone around to your point of view isn't the same as being proven right.

We still don't know the exact circumstances surrounding why Nana isn't playing, and what the rationale is for it - and Roogsy's information appears to come exclusively from sources among the players, who would be just as likely to colour facts and information with their own bias, as management would be (my crystal ball tells me I'm going to be told this is absolutely false). I'm sure he gets a lot of genuinely good information, too.

At any rate, I'm not looking for an argument. I find the tinge of bitterness in Roogsy's posts to be humorous, which was all I said. And he doesn't deny it's in there, haha.

Frankly, I find these conversations to be incredibly tedious at this point. Peoples' opinions on this board are so easy to predict at this point, that I can paraphrase other peoples' posts before they are even written. I'm tired of fighting. I'm tired of being a paratrooper in the 101st Keyboard Kommandos.

There are lots of genuinely good reasons to be incredibly pessimistic about the state of this team - the ownership, the management, the players, the league, et cetera. I understand the people who have negative impulses towards this team - they've earned it through years of fan abuse, and lowered expectations.

I also understand why Roogsy takes the side of the player in these disputes with management, though I suspect his self-admitted personal relationship with some of TFC's players may influence and somewhat bias his judgment (and he obviously won't agree, so it isn't worth debating). He's standing up for the "little" guy against the corporate behemoth with a dubious reputation for player relations. His rationale is admirable, even if I think his methods and certitude here can occasionally stray into the arrogantly condescending. But you know what? Lots of people here have been guilty of that in the past, myself included.

Man alive I'm just tired of the aimless squabbling. I spend less and less time in the TFC sections of this board, because the conversations are just re-treads of the same tired subjects. Sometimes I wish they'd just fold the team, because in a lot of ways, this really isn't fun any more.

Apologies for the length, and meandering subject matter. This was very much a stream of consciousness.

- Scott

[CretanBull]

But as a supporter while we would like the team to put out the best XI, we can't control that.

That's why I can complain about player selections, and throw my hands in the air, but at the end of the day, it's not going to change the coach's mind.

It's like that in any sport, all around the world.

Now you can probably put some pressure on the FO to fire the coach... but to get the FO to pressure the coach to play player x, y, z... most coaches will just quit on the spot.


To me being a supporter means providing encouragement and demaning accountability from both the players and the front office. I'm not under the illusion that - alone - I can do either, but being part of a larger group means fostering and developing certain attitudes about what's acceptable from our players and our front office.

While I don't think that its our role to demand a particular starting XI (nor would I respect a coach who would give in to such demands) I do think that we can demand that our coach treats players with a certain level of respect and doesn't lie to us...in the same way that we demand that the players representing our team and city do so with pride, honour etc.

None of us here hestitate to call out a poor preformance from a player, but when some of us do the same to our FO we're abused for it. When a player makes a mistake that hurts our team there are numerous threads dedicated to tearing him apart. When management makes a mistake that hurts our team, we see people making excuses for them and mocking the people who do speak out.

Roogsy gets called bitter and dismissed as a troll for commenting on the Winter/Nana situation (in a moment of vindication - a couple weeks ago most of the people who argued with Roogsy then accept his position now), but there are endless posts about Gargan, Harden etc. sucking and none of the posters making comments there are being called bitter trolls.

[ManUtd4ever]

You've misunderstood me. I was saying that after the way Winter has mistreated Nana and threatened his career, Winter better hope that Nana is still willing to play for him now that he's desparately needed (and doesn't fake an injury to screw him right back).

Alright, I apologize for misunderstanding what you meant by "injured".

Nonetheless, is it not absurd to assume that Attakora won't be willing to play for Winter and prove himself if he's called upon?

He's still a professional athlete, and even if he feels that his playing time has been sabotaged to pressure him into signing into a contract extension, feigning injury to avoid playing in the starting lineup wouldn't exactly be the ideal manner in which to vindicate himself.

Now if you were being sarcastic, then you can just ignore my post. :D

[Whoop]

You're always welcome in All Sports Scott. LOL

[Whoop]

To me being a supporter means providing encouragement and demaning accountability from both the players and the front office. I'm not under the illusion that - alone - I can do either, but being part of a larger group means fostering and developing certain attitudes about what's acceptable from our players and our front office.

While I don't think that its our role to demand a particular starting XI (nor would I respect a coach who would give in to such demands) I do think that we can demand that our coach treats players with a certain level of respect and doesn't lie to us...in the same way that we demand that the players representing our team and city do so with pride, honour etc.

None of us here hestitate to call out a poor preformance from a player, but when some of us do the same to our FO we're abused for it. When a player makes a mistake that hurts our team there are numerous threads dedicated to tearing him apart. When management makes a mistake that hurts our team, we see people making excuses for them and mocking the people who do speak out.

Roogsy gets called bitter and dismissed as a troll for commenting on the Winter/Nana situation (in a moment of vindication - a couple weeks ago most of the people who argued with Roogsy then accept his position now), but there are endless posts about Gargan, Harden etc. sucking and none of the posters making comments there are being called bitter trolls.

I think a lot of what is said in the TFC section should be taken with a grain of salt. :lol:

But I'm along the same lines as Shakes. Not so much over this argument per se or about Winter or about players or the FO, but how you end up just avoiding the main sections altogether.

It's like I said earlier in the week, you agree with the players, you're labelled as anti-FO. If you disagree with the players, you're labelled as pro-FO. It's like there are no shades of grey.

It's either one way or no way. Kind of like TFC. LOL

[CretanBull]

Apologies for the length, and meandering subject matter. This was very much a stream of consciousness.


Its all good :thumbsup:

I agree with the spirit of your post, you just have to remind yourself that (for the most part) the argueing stems from passionate people who care - perhaps more than they should - about these matters. What might come across as argueing for the sake of it is often defending a deeply held belief.

I don't know if you know Roogsy, but if you met him in real life you'd know that he's a pretty positive person who's almost always smiling and good for a laugh. Over the years I've had A LOT of people tell me that my real life personality is the polar opposite of what I project in my posts. Its just the nature of these boards and the competing passions that get expressed here.

[Shakes McQueen]

It's like I said earlier in the week, you agree with the players, you're labelled as anti-FO. If you disagree with the players, you're labelled as pro-FO. It's like there are no shades of grey.

Absolutely. As much as I disagree with Roogsy on some stuff, I can also completely relate to his exasperation with simply being sloughed off as nothing more than a negative "hater" who loves DeRo.

I hate the simplistic debates.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

Absolutely. As much as I disagree with Roogsy on some stuff, I can also completely relate to his exasperation with simply being sloughed off as nothing more than a negative "hater" who loves DeRo.

I hate the simplistic debates.

- Scott


Exasperation.

Damn, that's the perfect word for me. It perfectly eloquates how I feel about this team.

I don't care if people like me, or agree with me. But I do get bothered when people accuse me of having an agenda and not caring about this team. While I don't care for the front office, if I didnt' care about the team itself I wouldn't be banging my head on these boards day and night.

It isn't fun on my side either folks. But I asked myself a question a long time ago. Do I do nothing or do I stand up and say what I know? Obviously you guys know what I picked.

[Roogsy]

Its all good :thumbsup:

I agree with the spirit of your post, you just have to remind yourself that (for the most part) the argueing stems from passionate people who care - perhaps more than they should - about these matters. What might come across as argueing for the sake of it is often defending a deeply held belief.

I don't know if you know Roogsy, but if you met him in real life you'd know that he's a pretty positive person who's almost always smiling and good for a laugh. Over the years I've had A LOT of people tell me that my real life personality is the polar opposite of what I project in my posts. Its just the nature of these boards and the competing passions that get expressed here.

Thanks CB!

The cheque is in the mail! :lol:

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't know if you know Roogsy, but if you met him in real life you'd know that he's a pretty positive person who's almost always smiling and good for a laugh. Over the years I've had A LOT of people tell me that my real life personality is the polar opposite of what I project in my posts. Its just the nature of these boards and the competing passions that get expressed here.

I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting Roogsy in person, along with most people here, actually.

And yes, I too have been told that I project a different personality in person. I suspect that's just because of a) the nuance of face to face communication, and b) the removal of the internet buffer. People are more well socialized and measured when they are immediately forced to put a face with the person they are talking to.

EDIT: And I should add I've got no ill will towards Roogsy - the point of my post was to project the exact opposite. I understand Roogsy's frustrations, even if we don't always draw the same conclusions.

- Scott

[Whoop]

I echo CB's statements about Roogsy.

And if you ever want to hit the peelers... he's your man. LOL :thumbsup:

[Stryker]

I'd almost bet money that Attakora will be traded for ethier Hainault or Jakovic.

[denime]

I'd almost bet money that Attakora will be traded for ethier Hainault or Jakovic.

CB for CB I don't think so,we are short a CB,RB or AM,DM for CB would be better for us right now,and trade you mention it would be a steal for us,both of those players are years ahead of Nana.

[flamehawk]

I'd almost bet money that Attakora will be traded for ethier Hainault or Jakovic.

While I wouldn't be surprised that Attakora is traded, how would this make sense?

We'd still be stuck with Harden, new defender, and Henry. We'd still be in a lot of trouble

[CSO_BBTB]

They can trade within the league at any time, the July 15th date only applies to signing players from other leagues or players who are currently without a contract.

It doesn't always apply to players without a contract, for what it's worth. Players can be signed outside the transfer window if they were already out of contract and unattached where their previous club was concerned at the end of the last window. Only problem is that players that are actually worth signing to a fully pro contract usually don't wind up in that situation obviously.

Beyond that people with inside sources are getting the preferred spin of their source, who may have an agenda for wanting it to appear on a well-read messageboard. The principle of caveat emptor very much applies because if you ever get involved in the game at any kind of competitive level you'll seldom meet a player who will tell you that they got dropped from the starting lineup or failed to make it onto a team because they weren't good enough. There are always weird and wonderful ways to rationalize what happened without bringing that explanation into the equation. :yesnod:

[Stryker]

CB for CB I don't think so,we are short a CB,RB or AM,DM for CB would be better for us right now,and trade you mention it would be a steal for us,both of those players are years ahead of Nana.
It'd make sense if Nana wasen't the only thing we were offering them. IE allocation or the ghost known as Sturgis was also thrown in.

[denime]

It'd make sense if Nana wasen't the only thing we were offering them. IE allocation or the ghost known as Sturgis was also thrown in.

It doesn't make sense to trade CB for CB when you are short a CB,no matter who or what you trow on top of it to get the deal.

[Stryker]

It doesn't make sense to trade CB for CB when you are short a CB,no matter who or what you trow on top of it to get the deal.
And letting him ride pine till his contract expires and getting squat for him makes even less sense.

[denime]

And letting him ride pine till his contract expires and getting squat for him makes even less sense.
Agree,it doesn't make sense,but now that Cann is injured he will get playing time so to trade him now for another CB will not solve our problem.

[TFC07]

I'd almost bet money that Attakora will be traded for ethier Hainault or Jakovic.

But aren't those teams high on their defenders? I don't see it happening unless adds another asset with Attakora to get either one of them.

[Alixir]

Exasperation.

Damn, that's the perfect word for me. It perfectly eloquates how I feel about this team.

Flatulence would be my word.