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denime
05-28-2011, 01:35 PM
discuss

Flipityflu
05-28-2011, 01:36 PM
i don't want to anymore

2mil4dero+santo
05-28-2011, 01:37 PM
at least winter is learning from his mistakes... oh no wait he's not....

Inklink
05-28-2011, 01:37 PM
Discuss what?

I miss the Lombardo days?

pyppurs
05-28-2011, 01:37 PM
:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadh orse::deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

boysblue
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
everything is fine. trust me, the smart guys at mlse will have this all sorted out asap.

however, and this is most important, all supprters must continue to buy tickets, beer, merchandise, etc. in order for this to work.
remember lads....all for one. :flare:

Island Man
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
I love the way Winter never changes anything.

kodiakTFC
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.

DangerRed
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
http://kickthis.typepad.com/.a/6a0115707beb82970b0133ecc2b2cd970b-800wi

JavierMartini
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
6-2 that was the worst home loss in a long time

CSO_BBTB
05-28-2011, 01:38 PM
Big questions are why no Cann and why was JDG's head not in it today? Suspect there may be major problems in the dressing room.

flamehawk
05-28-2011, 01:39 PM
6-2 that was the worst home loss in a long time

Forget 'a long time' - it's in the record books as the worst ever loss from TFC

Strans
05-28-2011, 01:40 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.

Pulling Harden ASAP.

Isn't player motivation part of the coaches job? When the club comes out flatter than a pancake surely some of the blame has to fall on the coach...

TFC USA
05-28-2011, 01:40 PM
Year 1 team would kick the ass of Year 5.

LittleOzzy
05-28-2011, 01:40 PM
cuz some people are actual supporters.


What is there to support though? MLSE needs to put players on the pitch worth cheering for, it can't just be about the crest. The supporters should have left at half time. The game was over in the first 2 minutes yet the singing continues, Why? MLSE has nothing to worry about with the kind of support we are showing. Send a message and go home. I honestly feel bad for the people who bought tickets this season.

Davenport
05-28-2011, 01:40 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.
For a start he should not pick Harden and Gargan.
The only 2 players I'd keep are Frei and Eckersley, and one of those doesn't belong to us. :facepalm:

Batman
05-28-2011, 01:40 PM
ya... I expect this team is fracturing... it's just too ugly.

ecospice
05-28-2011, 01:41 PM
That was just pathetic. Maybe the shite craps game took a lot out of the players. It shouldn't have, since the game was called, but who knows... This one is on the players - half of them didn't show up.

CSO_BBTB
05-28-2011, 01:41 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.

If the team blows playing an adventurous 4-3-3 is asking for trouble. Maybe better to use Excelsior Rotterdam rather than Ajax Amsterdam tactics right now?

2mil4dero+santo
05-28-2011, 01:41 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.

whats the point of having a coach if they can't do anything?

Wingback6
05-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Transfer window coming up... release Gargan/Harden and others, sign a third CF a LCB and maybe an CAM... and fire Anselmi... I feel bad for the more talented players who are being hung out to dry, yourass, plata, eckersley... Tchani even... they are having to do things that they aren't equipped for because this team has too much depth in some areas e.g. DM, and not enough elsewhere... I repeat... major moves have to happen in the transfer window.. or else I'm sure heads will roll... but with the major shitshow this club is/has become... what player would come here willingly?? anyhow gonna go watch some real football i.e. CL.

Alixir
05-28-2011, 01:42 PM
So anway I just typed a book on the last thread which is now closed so fuck it I am not typing it again...here's the coles notes....This team is fucking garbage and so is its FO. they will move to Miami in the next 10 years....So sick of watching a shit product. Glad the bar I was just at did not carry GolTV so I missed the first half of this cock-up.
Can't say its been a fun 5 years, so I won't. Good luck in the future RPBers. I have had enough I am out.

ecospice
05-28-2011, 01:43 PM
What is there to support though? MLSE needs to put players on the pitch worth cheering for, it can't just be about the crest. The supporters should have left at half time. The game was over in the first 2 minutes yet the singing continues, Why? MLSE has nothing to worry about with the kind of support we are showing. Send a message and go home. I honestly feel bad for the people who bought tickets this season.

People are voting with their feet - no game this year has had full attendance - by that I mean the stands visibly full during the game. Compare that to years 1-4.

jloome
05-28-2011, 01:43 PM
A disgrace. An honourable manager would offer his resignation after that.

We had 62% of the ball and gave up six goals on nine shots. Fucking disgraceful.

He's not ready to manage on this level if he can't tell the difference between Ty Harden and Nana Attakora, if he can't see why Dan Gargan can't be our starting left back over both Borman and Yourrasowsky.

We were disgraced so he could prove some point about work ethic, a tactically inane decision.

This may indeed just be Gullitt redux, right down to favouring Ty Harden and Alan Gordon (whom I actually like) as MLS starters.

Davenport
05-28-2011, 01:43 PM
Big questions are why no Cann and why was JDG's head not in it today? Suspect there may be major problems in the dressing room.
JDG is bad news. The way he performs on his f**** ridiculous money is a disgrace. No wonder the room is f***ed.

MFG1
05-28-2011, 01:44 PM
http://usera.imagecave.com/mikehalford/bania.jpg

flamehawk
05-28-2011, 01:44 PM
There's no way Harden should've started. Either go with Cann or if he really was fatigued, Attakora. Harden had enough chances...

Gargan is garbage.. try Omphroy or Morgan if Borman wasn't fit. Or put Yourassawsky there and place Cordon in midfield.

Poor decisions for the starting lineup.

ManUtd4ever
05-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Today was an absolute disgrace, the worst result at home in TFC's history. I can tolerate a hard fought draw or a loss, but that effort was a total farce.

LesH
05-28-2011, 01:45 PM
discuss

Nothing to discuss here.

We all know our team is utter shit, and if anyone does not know it yet.... :
Hey, wake up already!
(Notice to all those saying that TFC goes in the right direction, and because of this we must be patient.)

2mil4dero+santo
05-28-2011, 01:46 PM
For a start he should not pick Harden and Gargan.
The only 2 players I'd keep are Frei and Eckersley, and one of those doesn't belong to us. :facepalm:

I said this back when dero was run out of town. Winter's ego is so out of whack, he doesn't want good players, he wants players that when he says jump they say how high... in the end we're gonna be left with a bunch of players who are just happy someone is paying them to play and will do anything thats asked of them. The good players who have options will not be motivated to play under this NOOB coach.

Klinsmann + Winter = Con Man + epic FAIL

DangerRed
05-28-2011, 01:46 PM
People are voting with their feet - no game this year has had full attendance - by that I mean the stands visibly full during the game. Compare that to years 1-4.

I know of at least three season tickets -- mine -- that won't be getting renewed next year. TFC can rebuild again if it wants to, just not on the back of my wallet. Hell, I would even stick around if not for the well documented and beaten to death gouging practices that the ownership engages in. As it is, this is it for me.

I thought CBlake's cheerleader thread was the rock bottom, but I'd say today is it.

If you take the two biggest beatings we got at home this season, DC and today, that's 9 goals allowed in two games. Nine. Just marvel at that for a second.

But it's ok, because as TFC proudly proclaims, we're getting points out of 75% of matches!

Stryker
05-28-2011, 01:47 PM
Very upsetting if we lose Ecks at the end of his loan. He's by far the best defender AND two way player we've ever had. It'll take a good chunk of change to entice him to sign with this shit team this summer.
I'll be so glad when DeGuzman gets chopped. It'll be my christmas present this year.
Harden and Gargan must are so unbelieveably brutal you can't help but wonder if they're subsidizing their paychecks by throwing games.

Strans
05-28-2011, 01:47 PM
The problem is that if Winter thinks that Harden is his best option - and he *knows* that harden is not capable of playing at this level, and this season is supposed to be a 'rebuilding year', then WHY THE FUCK IS HE STARTING?!?!! or playing at all for that matter? you're not giving your team a chance to win, nor are you analyzing your other options for this club going forward.

By playing Harden he's treading water, learning nothing, and embarrassing himself and this club.

ilikemusic
05-28-2011, 01:50 PM
I said this back when dero was run out of town. Winter's ego is so out of whack, he doesn't want good players, he wants players that when he says jump they say how high... in the end we're gonna be left with a bunch of players who are just happy someone is paying them to play and will do anything thats asked of them. The good players who have options will not be motivated to play under this NOOB coach.

Klinsmann + Winter = Con Man + epic FAIL

Ive been saying this for a long time now.

zeelaw
05-28-2011, 01:52 PM
6-2 that was the worst home loss in a long time

I think it was the worse ever...?

CSO_BBTB
05-28-2011, 01:54 PM
The problem is that if Winter thinks that Harden is his best option...

Suspect there has been a falling out with both Cann and Attakora because Harden is obviously no more than inexpensive cover just like Gargan. A team that starts Harden and Gargan when better paid options are available on the bench clearly has issues. Winter publicly calling out the players on his roster who are from Toronto is unlikely to have gone down well.

Strans
05-28-2011, 02:03 PM
I feel like I'm in an abusive relationship.

ecospice
05-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Winter's post game conference was interesting. Winter's comments were a bit hard to understand because the questions he was answering could not be heard on GOLTV... But - he emphasized the fact the team is rebuilding and he does not have enough of the players he wants. Said the team will try to sign players when the transfer window opens and that he is not happy with JDG the last two games. I could not understand what he said about JDG specifically, so don't quote me.

jloome
05-28-2011, 02:06 PM
He just said in the presser the team won't win until he gets the players that fit his system, blamed this on players left over from last year.....which, while true, is not exactly a sensible motivating method.

TFC07
05-28-2011, 02:07 PM
I have been saying this a while that Harden, Gargan and Peterson have to go ASAP! I don't care if we have to buy them out and still have their salary count on our cap space. These guys shouldn't be playing in this type of system at all.

JDG needs to go as well! He's too weak and can't pass the ball half the time.

Winter should resign as a head coach and stick to being TD.

Play the kids if we're going to rebuild this season not bums like Harden (He's the reason why Mapp scored two goals and I think it was his marked man who scored the goal from corner kick) and Gargan (First Philly goal was his fault).

ecospice
05-28-2011, 02:09 PM
He just said in the presser the team won't win until he gets the players that fit his system, blamed this on players left over from last year.....which, while true, is not exactly a sensible motivating method.

True - lousy motivating method. But, 'telling it like it is' is a good idea. The man is at least honest.

TFC07
05-28-2011, 02:09 PM
He just said in the presser the team won't win until he gets the players that fit his system, blamed this on players left over from last year.....which, while true, is not exactly a sensible motivating method.

He's right, but why didn't he play the kids at least instead of Harden and Gargan? JDG should just leave Toronto and find a 'gig' in Spain.

TFC07
05-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Very upsetting if we lose Ecks at the end of his loan. He's by far the best defender AND two way player we've ever had. It'll take a good chunk of change to entice him to sign with this shit team this summer.
I'll be so glad when DeGuzman gets chopped. It'll be my christmas present this year.
Harden and Gargan must are so unbelieveably brutal you can't help but wonder if they're subsidizing their paychecks by throwing games.

Agreed.

I hope we can buy his contract once his loan deal is over, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ecks wants to return back to England instead of playing in MLS next season.

CSO_BBTB
05-28-2011, 02:15 PM
The question that should have been asked (may have been I can't get Gol TV where I am right now) is If he knows he doesn't have the players to play his system right now, why even use that system at this point? A more conservative 4-5-1 can easily be turned back into more of an Ajax style 4-3-3 further down the road when conditions are ripe for it.

v00d00daddy
05-28-2011, 02:15 PM
That was gross.

Disappointing on all fronts. Not one good performance.

It was also to see Frei have such a bad game. He's allowed to from time to time (god knows he's earned it) but that fourth goal was a back breaker.

Second goal was on him too. Very out of character for him.

Worrisome

kaos197O
05-28-2011, 02:23 PM
True - lousy motivating method. But, 'telling it like it is' is a good idea. The man is at least honest.

I call bullshit. He picked the starting 11. 5 of them played for us last season. That includes Santos and Frei. The rest are his. The subs that came in were his pick-ups too. He needs to take some fucking ownership finally. It's everyone else BUT him. Fuck that. He gets no pass from me and gets less credit for throwing the team under the bus like he has time and again!

REFUND!

Oh and figure this shit out already!

RedsYNWA
05-28-2011, 02:25 PM
Thats it for me as well folks no renewals
I feel like TFC threw a piss bag on me

canadian_bhoy
05-28-2011, 02:25 PM
Jdg, ecks, plata and freight. That's all we got. We need at least 2 new defenders ASAP. We need a target man ASAP.

And Tfc need to sort out this attakora issue. Either fix the problem or get rid if him. Time's up.

I still think we're better this year than we were last year..

RedsYNWA
05-28-2011, 02:27 PM
JDG can take a hike
zero chance that boy should be making more than 200K
criminal

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 02:28 PM
Bad, bad game. No excuses for these guys putting in that performance.

Not much to do now but have a beer, and start forgetting about it.

- Scott

sashavukelich
05-28-2011, 02:37 PM
Transfer window coming up... release Gargan/Harden and others, sign a third CF a LCB and maybe an CAM... and fire Anselmi... I feel bad for the more talented players who are being hung out to dry, yourass, plata, eckersley... Tchani even... they are having to do things that they aren't equipped for because this team has too much depth in some areas e.g. DM, and not enough elsewhere... I repeat... major moves have to happen in the transfer window.. or else I'm sure heads will roll... but with the major shitshow this club is/has become... what player would come here willingly?? anyhow gonna go watch some real football i.e. CL.



^^^^ this.

v00d00daddy
05-28-2011, 02:38 PM
Bad, bad game. No excuses for these guys putting in that performance.

Not much to do now but have a beer, and start forgetting about it.

- Scott

I agree

brad
05-28-2011, 02:40 PM
Excuse the formatting - on a iPhone.

Frei
Ecks - Williams - Cann - Borman
Steva - JDG - Tchani
Martina - Gordon - Plata

That is a starting 11 with 8 players Winter brought in. Frei gets a pass for obvious reasons. Sounds like excuses to me.

Chevy
05-28-2011, 02:42 PM
Big questions are why no Cann and why was JDG's head not in it today? Suspect there may be major problems in the dressing room.

That's a huge jump you're making there. Any evidence to support it?

I'm all for giving some stick to the boys and coaches today because they were awful for 80 minutes, but give me a break.

TFC Cityboy
05-28-2011, 02:42 PM
I'll excuse Stef for a bad day- very rare and how many times has he saved us? Bad day at the office for sure for him.

Harden, Williamd and Gargan/Borman - total fuckin joke. No way we'd have let in 6 with CannNana in there. Winter- give your fuckin head a shake and recognise who is the best CB partnership.

JDG- don't get me going...

Total shitshow today and I truly worry for the future of this club the way the support is fading.

bgnewf
05-28-2011, 02:42 PM
on the way to the bus home myself and (TFCPICScom) Scotty were talking about this game and I was saying how angry I was with the effort. Scotty said something that to me that is even worse than anger... he said he was "disappointed" with the effort.

Only Eckersley and Plata get passing grades today is our consensus.

And how FOR FIVE GOD DAMN FUCKING YEARS NOW can we still not get left back/centre back straightened away??



And by the way how bad must Nana Attakora be doing in training to not rate ahead of either Gargan or Harden?

Off to the Academy game at Lamport tonight. Hopefully they can show me a team in red uniforms that is actually interested in winning.

sashavukelich
05-28-2011, 02:44 PM
I feel like I'm in an abusive relationship.

spot on.

TFC OZZ
05-28-2011, 02:52 PM
I try so hard to force myself to understand the constant changes that go on with this team, but I just can't do it anymore.

Eckersley and Plata both showed hustle, and I'll include Frei and Soolsma in that category. Other than that, Harden, Williams Yourass, Tchani, like what the fuck do you do on the field?

Anyways, can someone explain to me the backpass situation? I'm all for building up from the back, but like honest to god they were passing back to Frei's left foot when he was under pressure. Surely it's wiser to just boot it up the field then put Frei in danger, and then force him to shank the ball away.

profit89
05-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Winter needs new players.. he knows it and is waiting for the transfer window... be patient guys... he knows that harden and gargan etc stink

azorean10
05-28-2011, 02:58 PM
Enuff !! This team is utter crap.....been a fan since day numero uno, but ,come on, this is disgraceful........Eckersley, plata, and Frei.....that is all i'd keep.

bigbamboom
05-28-2011, 03:00 PM
It's not about tactics, roster or team play when you come out of the dressing room and are down 2-0 after 12 mins. It's about pride - it's about passion. I wish we had some leadership that would step up...and call out some pathetic weak efforts.

We lose before we step on the pitch - I'm okay losing but like not this - not because of a lack of heart.

Chevy
05-28-2011, 03:01 PM
I guess the "Game in Six" has double meaning today.

sashavukelich
05-28-2011, 03:02 PM
Winter needs new players.. he knows it and is waiting for the transfer window... be patient guys... he knows that harden and gargan etc stink

Winter played at the highest level, he must see some of these players and just shake his head with how talentless some of them are. If we are going to lose 6-2, give the younger guys a run out and get them some MLS exp.

Maicon took his finishes well, i'd keep him, Plata, Eck, Youra and Frei.

We need gordon back pronto to win those balls up top.

Stryker
05-28-2011, 03:17 PM
We have good ball dribblers and short passers in Step, Martina and Plata. You know in MLS the other team will always press hard when they close down a man. Why is Winter not teaching the mids to get open and provide options for these three players? Especially when they're getting double teamed so often.

RedsYNWA
05-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Please sign John Carew he is a free agent and a beast built for this league...we could have David and Goliath with him and Plata

TFC07
05-28-2011, 03:21 PM
We have good ball dribblers and short passers in Step, Martina and Plata. You know in MLS the other team will always press hard when they close down a man. Why is Winter not teaching the mids to get open and provide options for these three players? Especially when they're getting double teamed so often.

We can't be too sure about that. Maybe he is teaching these things but players aren't simply responding or worst they're not capable enough to make themselves available to receive a pass.

Stryker
05-28-2011, 03:22 PM
Please sign John Carew he is a free agent and a beast built for this league...we could have David and Goliath with him and Plata
Heh, funny I was thinking about Carew lastnight. I don't think a third target man is what we need though.
Mariner will definetely have his chance to make a mark on this club if he can sign some good players this summer.

James17930
05-28-2011, 03:26 PM
Two styles of coaching:

1) You have your 'system' and you go out and get the exact players you want for your system. This works well in Europe since no salary cap and you don't have to worry about roster restrictions as much.

2) You look at the players you have, their strengths and weaknesses, and create a system that works for them. This is good in MLS because it's the opposite of Europe.

So why do we keep getting European coaches who are obviously not willing to adapt? Yeah, I get that in 5 years we might be better under Winter, but after shit like today there's seriously going to be no one left in 5 years to care.

Stryker
05-28-2011, 03:33 PM
We can't be too sure about that. Maybe he is teaching these things but players aren't simply responding or worst they're not capable enough to make themselves available to receive a pass.
Well I can buy that as being the case for Peterson cause he has all the football brain of a poached egg but what possible excuse could there be for someone with the experience JDG has?
I can't possibly see him playing here after this season.

TFC07
05-28-2011, 03:36 PM
Well I can buy that as being the case for Peterson cause he has all the football brain of a poached egg but what possible excuse could there be for someone with the experience JDG has?
I can't possibly see him playing here after this season.

JDG is probably too busy partying (I believe this has been an issue before) to care about his performance. His head currently isn't in the right place.

Auzzy
05-28-2011, 03:40 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.

As a very fucking simple thing, even in his grand 4-3-3 system, why didn't he play "point forward" if his defense & DM are obviously overmatched, and the defensive midfield needs help to build up the play & support the defense...??? TFC had a brief chance to get back into the game, but having two of your three midfielders hanging out in a line with your three forwards, is never going to work.

Dv23
05-28-2011, 03:40 PM
I'm almost glad this happened. Most everyone on that team should be ashamed of themselves.

UltraSuperMegaMo
05-28-2011, 03:42 PM
Heh, funny I was thinking about Carew lastnight. I don't think a third target man is what we need though.
Mariner will definetely have his chance to make a mark on this club if he can sign some good players this summer.

:D There's a bad joke in there somewhere.

TorontoGooner
05-28-2011, 03:42 PM
Our franchise will be gone in a few years. A hardy set of 500 supporters or so like us won't keep this club. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

40 bucks to watch this shit every week. Not next year I'm afraid.

You can't rebuild if there's nothing to rebuild.

ExiledRed
05-28-2011, 03:44 PM
A disgrace. An honourable manager would offer his resignation after that.

We had 62% of the ball and gave up six goals on nine shots. Fucking disgraceful.

He's not ready to manage on this level if he can't tell the difference between Ty Harden and Nana Attakora, if he can't see why Dan Gargan can't be our starting left back over both Borman and Yourrasowsky.

We were disgraced so he could prove some point about work ethic, a tactically inane decision.

This may indeed just be Gullitt redux, right down to favouring Ty Harden and Alan Gordon (whom I actually like) as MLS starters.

well I'm glad you've seen enough now. Haha you need a pitchfork, or are you a torch kind of guy?

Blowing Bubbles
05-28-2011, 03:46 PM
Winter needs new players.. he knows it and is waiting for the transfer window... be patient guys... he knows that harden and gargan etc stink

this is a salary cap world brah .... gargan is on 90k good luck getting a massive upgrade w/o cutting more salary elsewhere.

Wingback6
05-28-2011, 03:58 PM
just watched replay of Santos 2 goals (was at Subway during beginning of second half) both appeared to be text-book offsides 1st Santos, 2nd Plata/Borman?? very sad, shoulda been 6-0

A.J
05-28-2011, 03:58 PM
this is a salary cap world brah .... gargan is on 90k good luck getting a massive upgrade w/o cutting more salary elsewhere.

No, you can read the salary thread and see that we're well under the cap. Almost enough to sign 2 DPs I think?

And Gargan is on 70k

Benficachop20
05-28-2011, 04:08 PM
ffs Winter. No more Gargan, Harden, and Peterson (I know he didn't play today but he still flat out sucks) and play Cordon!!!!

Beach_Red
05-28-2011, 04:09 PM
He just said in the presser the team won't win until he gets the players that fit his system, blamed this on players left over from last year.....which, while true, is not exactly a sensible motivating method.

How many MLS coaches have the players they want? There are managers who could put together decent MLS teams starting with last year's "leftovers."

This organization has no leadership, it never has, not from day one. They've needed to bring in a president, a top guy with lots of experience but they keep thinking they can do it themselves with inexperienced middle management. There is no way they run their condo or restaurant businesses like this.

And now this blaming the players is funny, it's digging an even deeper hole, let's see who signs with the team now.

A.J
05-28-2011, 04:11 PM
So the general consensus on this board seems to be "release all the players from last year (minus Frei) and bring in new players"

I wonder how many new players from this year will become "shit" by next year?

DangerRed
05-28-2011, 04:12 PM
"Apologies to our fans. We don't deserve their support, when we play like this, especially." -Stefan Frei

bertal
05-28-2011, 04:14 PM
have we been in free fall since 2008?

adam1001
05-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Although im tempted to pin the blame on Winter, I can't help but hate Preki and Johnston even more after today's game. After improving year by year these two clowns cut whatever core was left on this team. I never thought id say this but I miss the Carver/Cummins days.

werewolf
05-28-2011, 04:22 PM
I tend to look on the bright side of things- It's 15 months until the next price increase.

p.s. Philadelphia Union are better then Real Madrid.

DichioTFC
05-28-2011, 04:25 PM
Brutal. I'm numb / in shock. It was ridiculously bad today.

Going down 3-0 in the first half at home was bad enough, but after getting two goals back, we were on our way to at the very least have a draw. Frei had a long pass that went off target and goal comes back the other way, 4-2 and a deflated XI.

I don't know if anyone here plays FIFA 11, but there's a mode called Virtual Pro where you make your own 'all-star' and play on a team with a bunch of people who have created their own all-stars against the same. The defending in that mode is shameless and TFC's defence was similar today (not coming back, not hustling at all, giving up too easily, etc etc).



"Apologies to our fans. We don't deserve their support, when we play like this, especially." -Stefan Frei

I feel horrible for Frei, he didn't deserve the sarcastic applause that was directed at him. He's been pretty much flawless day in and day out since he's been here, everything went downhill today for him especially. Leaving the pitch he looked inconsolable, the Union keeper gave him a big hug and the Philly players pretty much all shook his hand.

One person who earned my respect was Maicon Santos. After getting demolished, with thousands of booing & angry fans, he still came pretty deep to the Bunker and applauded the fans and pointed to the crest. People booed him, but many more applauded him for the gesture more than anything else. Our captain stood alone taking everyone's abuse / appreciation for a good 30 seconds, nobody else from the team came closer than 40-50 yards.

habstfc
05-28-2011, 04:32 PM
I think if they don't get that fourth goal, we come back and get a draw. We had the momentum and about 30 minutes to work with.

DichioTFC
05-28-2011, 04:35 PM
What is there to support though? MLSE needs to put players on the pitch worth cheering for, it can't just be about the crest. The supporters should have left at half time. The game was over in the first 2 minutes yet the singing continues, Why? MLSE has nothing to worry about with the kind of support we are showing. Send a message and go home. I honestly feel bad for the people who bought tickets this season.

Apparently, a whole bunch of supporters agreed with you. This is somewhere between the 5th and 6th goals (~83')

http://i55.tinypic.com/2s9ccg6.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/2d0fcsp.jpg

112, 113 and 127 were all pretty much half full, at best.

ManUtd4ever
05-28-2011, 04:41 PM
At this point of the season, Winter should still theoretically be given the benefit of the doubt until he has acquired players suited to play his system. His post game comments were accurate (albeit inappropriate).

However, I can understand if some supporters are losing their patience based on some of the curious lineup decisions as of late. I can't fathom why the likes of Gargan and Harden started on the backline in lieu of Cann, Yourassowsky, Borman, or Attakora.

I understand hindsight is 20/20, and Cann has been responsible for several giveaways of his own lately, but surely there were better options available on the bench that might have kept the match close enough to earn a result.

I seriously hope today was the low point of the season, and a wake up call for the coaching staff and the players, or I fear more supporters will turn their back on the club for good by the end of the season.

No one is expecting miracles in a rebuilding year, but at the very least, we have the absolute right to demand an honest effort every match.

Beach_Red
05-28-2011, 04:47 PM
^ Really, what makes him think he CAN find players who can play his system that will sign with TFC? Has he ever signed players to a team before?

Is that really all we have, IF he can sign the players he can build a team? Does any team in MLS have all the players they really want?

TFC didn't need to bring in a whole system, they needed to beat the other MLS teams. That's all, just beat some other MLS teams suffering under the same salary cap and contract restrictions.

Maybe now we're starting to see why no other MLS team hired Soccer Solutions.

Auzzy
05-28-2011, 04:48 PM
I think if they don't get that fourth goal, we come back and get a draw. We had the momentum and about 30 minutes to work with.

Philly also missed a bunch of EASY chances. It could easily have been 8 or 10 - 2.

MG42
05-28-2011, 04:50 PM
The salt in the wound that Philly is better in their second year than we have ever been.

Giving up 6 goals is brutal, but doing it at home is inexcusable, a picture of the organization as a whole.

Auzzy
05-28-2011, 04:53 PM
^ Just to make it a bit more embarrassing: in their 10 league games this season, before today, Philly had scored a total of 8 goals.

Today they scored 6 in one game vs. Toronto. And Philly hasn't even been good on the road.

ensco
05-28-2011, 05:09 PM
^Re the pictures, you need to realize that huge numbers of supporters bolted at the 70th minute (after the 5th PU goal) because of the impending UEFA CL kickoff. Can you blame them, really?

alex andrew
05-28-2011, 05:09 PM
been there, read all this,

but you know what ? i'd rather be a tfc fan right now than a manchester united fan.

for me it's difficult to say who sucked better at their respective level, of course.

i'm afraid man u did worse !

i'd cut some slack to both organizations, these things happen very rarely.

Inklink
05-28-2011, 05:10 PM
"Apologies to our fans. We don't deserve their support, when we play like this, especially." -Stefan Frei

Probably one of the last ones to be blamed for this shitshow.

Get your shit together, TFC.

brad
05-28-2011, 05:18 PM
been there, read all this,

but you know what ? i'd rather be a tfc fan right now than a manchester united fan.

for me it's difficult to say who sucked better at their respective level, of course.

i'm afraid man u did worse !

i'd cut some slack to both organizations, these things happen very rarely.

TFC let in 6 at home against a second year expansion team who had only scored one on the road all year before tonight.

United were dominated by one of the best teams to ever play the game. Barca's performance tonight is already being called one of the best in the history of the game.

Big difference between the two.

LittleOzzy
05-28-2011, 05:20 PM
been there, read all this,

but you know what ? i'd rather be a tfc fan right now than a manchester united fan.

for me it's difficult to say who sucked better at their respective level, of course.

i'm afraid man u did worse !

i'd cut some slack to both organizations, these things happen very rarely.

This is a joke, right?

alex andrew
05-28-2011, 05:21 PM
yes it is a difference, but neither manchester nor toronto had a good day.

2-6 at home vs 1-3 'at home' is the same ****.

ones make thousands of bucks, others millions.

( no. it's not a joke, manchester lined up 10 gargans and one über frei ! )

ensco
05-28-2011, 05:28 PM
yes it is a difference, but neither manchester nor toronto had a good day.

2-6 at home vs 1-3 'at home' is the same ****.

ones make thousands of bucks, others millions.

This attempted symmetry is beyond ridiculous.

Manchester United did themselves proud today. They played extremely well, but were simply beaten by a better team. They are still Champions of England and one of the two best teams in the world.

alex andrew
05-28-2011, 05:38 PM
don't get me wrong, i as a football eater consider that manchester is better than barcelona, the fact that i am not a fan of either is something else.

but again, they had a bad day today, and allowing 3 goals is a way bigger catastrophe than a bottom seeded mls whatever that is allowing six..or seven or twelve.....who counts ?

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 05:39 PM
A disgrace. An honourable manager would offer his resignation after that.

We had 62% of the ball and gave up six goals on nine shots. Fucking disgraceful.

He's not ready to manage on this level if he can't tell the difference between Ty Harden and Nana Attakora, if he can't see why Dan Gargan can't be our starting left back over both Borman and Yourrasowsky.

We were disgraced so he could prove some point about work ethic, a tactically inane decision.

This may indeed just be Gullitt redux, right down to favouring Ty Harden and Alan Gordon (whom I actually like) as MLS starters.

Damn this sounds familiar. If only someone had been saying this a few weeks ago.

billyfly
05-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Can Jose Bautista play soccer?

sashavukelich
05-28-2011, 05:44 PM
lol, Winter is going to offer his resignation that's nonsense, he's not had enough time to SHAPE the team....lol, bloody Toronto/Golden HorseShoe mentality that things can be done SUPER fast.

If everyone calms the hell down, takes a breath and lets the man make some transfers in 2 days, maybe we'll see an improved squad.

so much for a 'supporters' forum.

p.s YES i did find the performance abysmal, the players have to take responsibility for their terrible play, it can't just winter as the fall out guy all the time.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 05:46 PM
The question that should have been asked (may have been I can't get Gol TV where I am right now) is If he knows he doesn't have the players to play his system right now, why even use that system at this point? A more conservative 4-5-1 can easily be turned back into more of an Ajax style 4-3-3 further down the road when conditions are ripe for it.

This is what I said at the beginning of the year. A good coach looks at his roster and adjusts his strategy to use the strengths of his roster and minimize the weaknesses. He doesn't insist on a style that the roster he has can't play effectively. He's putting the cart before the horse and blaming the horse for the current predicament.

Auzzy
05-28-2011, 05:48 PM
Soooo, according to Winter's post-game presser, he wants at least the following during the upcoming transfer window:
1) A goal scorer
2) A leader in the midfield
3) A leader in the central defense

Not sure if that means he's happy with our left-back situation :facepalm: but anyway, is this even possible?

I gather they've left a bit of room under the salary cap... but remember they can't drop players mid-season anymore to save half their salary, like they used to (e.g., Sutton). So I have a hard time seeing enough cap space for three top players in those spots.

And how about roster spots? I thought we were full? We may have two season-ending injuries -- but I'm not sure if they give you back both the roster space AND the cap space for that??? Plus where do you get the third spot from? I don't suppose he thinks someone will trade for the leftover crap from last year... (never mind the new crap of which they have also brought in a bit).

I think LA Galaxy still owes us "future considerations" for Barrett, but I don't know what that might be good for.

ensco
05-28-2011, 05:49 PM
May as well start talking about next year's first overall pick....
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/12-best-superdraft-prospects-2012

Davenport
05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
been there, read all this,

but you know what ? i'd rather be a tfc fan right now than a manchester united fan.

for me it's difficult to say who sucked better at their respective level, of course.

i'm afraid man u did worse !

i'd cut some slack to both organizations, these things happen very rarely.


Breaking news: Ryan Giggs seeks court injunction preventing broadcasters around the world showing highlights of tonight's match

billyfly
05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
The question now is with MLSE in flux, does the FO have the $$$ to go and get some to appease us?

rocker
05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
A good coach looks at his roster and adjusts his strategy to use the strengths of his roster and minimize the weaknesses. He doesn't insist on a style that the roster he has can't play effectively. He's putting the cart before the horse and blaming the horse for the current predicament.

A good manager who inherits a bad team usually blows up the roster until he gets a mix of new players he likes that plays his style. See, for example: Backe in NY (who is playing a starting lineup that includes almost nobody from the previous regime), Schmidt in Columbus, Kreis in Salt Lake, Arena in LA (to a lesser extent).

profit89
05-28-2011, 05:53 PM
lol, Winter is going to offer his resignation that's nonsense, he's not had enough time to SHAPE the team....lol, bloody Toronto/Golden HorseShoe mentality that things can be done SUPER fast.

If everyone calms the hell down, takes a breath and lets the man make some transfers in 2 days, maybe we'll see an improved squad.

so much for a 'supporters' forum.

p.s YES i did find the performance abysmal, the players have to take responsibility for their terrible play, it can't just winter as the fall out guy all the time.

+1

Absolutely right. Patience is required. We've been around for 5 years but Winter and his team have not. They see the problems too trust me. But they need a couple of transfer windows. It's only been 3 months. You need to give it time.

Support your team. I'm not happy either, but support your team.

Come on guys.

Davenport
05-28-2011, 05:54 PM
This attempted symmetry is beyond ridiculous.

Manchester United did themselves proud today. They played extremely well, but were simply beaten by a better team. They are still Champions of England and one of the two best teams in the world.

Man Utd didn't do themselves proud. They were poor.
Ferguson got it wrong and his team were completely outclassed.
One of the best 2 teams in the world ? :facepalm:

Davenport
05-28-2011, 05:56 PM
The question now is with MLSE in flux, does the FO have the $$$ to go and get some to appease us?
They've got loads of money but little idea.
Christ, they can't make the biggest club in ice hockey a winner so what chance has TFC got ?

Batman
05-28-2011, 05:59 PM
OK, let's try to look at the bright side.

It's one less week in the duration of JDG's ridiculous contract.

Get that ASS out of here.. and use the money on a BUNCH of capable players.

Davenport
05-28-2011, 06:03 PM
OK, let's try to look at the bright side.

It's one less week in the duration of JDG's ridiculous contract.

Get that ASS out of here.. and use the money on a BUNCH of capable players.
Yup, and Johnston's legacy lives on.

profit89
05-28-2011, 06:04 PM
They've got loads of money but little idea.
Christ, they can't make the biggest club in ice hockey a winner so what chance has TFC got ?

Right or Wrong, you can't buy championships in North America: the salary cap system.

CretanBull
05-28-2011, 06:04 PM
Let's go to where Plata came from and get 10 more of him. He's the only player on our team that I feel good about paying to watch.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 06:04 PM
A good manager who inherits a bad team usually blows up the roster until he gets a mix of new players he likes that plays his style. See, for example: Backe in NY (who is playing a starting lineup that includes almost nobody from the previous regime), Schmidt in Columbus, Kreis in Salt Lake, Arena in LA (to a lesser extent).


B.S. No coach turns his team over 100%. And Winter only has remnants of last year. Most starters are now Winter selections. Not Preki. Not Mo. If this is not Winter's team whose is it? FYI all the coaches you mentioned did not turn their teams over fully and in fact many had some measure of success with inherited teams with minimal changes.

Couchy81
05-28-2011, 06:05 PM
Yup, and Johnston's legacy lives on.

At least we got Frei :)

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 06:06 PM
Let's go to where Plata came from and get 10 more of him. He's the only player on our team that I feel good about paying to watch.

I'm right here baby! Except TFC can't afford me. :p

CretanBull
05-28-2011, 06:06 PM
B.S. No coach turns his team over 100%. And Winter only has remnants of last year. Most starters are now Winter selections. Not Preki. Not Mo. If this is not Winter's team whose is it? FYI all the coaches you mentioned did not turn their teams over fully and in fact many had some measure of success with inherited teams with minimal changes.

From last year to this year we have 15 new players.

brad
05-28-2011, 06:09 PM
B.S. No coach turns his team over 100%. And Winter only has remnants of last year. Most starters are now Winter selections. Not Preki. Not Mo. If this is not Winter's team whose is it? FYI all the coaches you mentioned did not turn their teams over fully and in fact many had some measure of success with inherited teams with minimal changes.

People seem to conveniently forget this point. Winter has brought in a good number of players and most of them are underwhelming to say the least.

CretanBull
05-28-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm right here baby! Except TFC can't afford me. :p

What if we offered your son a contract too? He HAS to be better than Harden, and when he learns to walk he'll be that much better!

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 06:10 PM
been there, read all this,

but you know what ? i'd rather be a tfc fan right now than a manchester united fan.

for me it's difficult to say who sucked better at their respective level, of course.

i'm afraid man u did worse !

i'd cut some slack to both organizations, these things happen very rarely.

This is ridiculous equivalence to the extreme. At the end of the day, Man Utd fans can take solace in being EPL Champions, and making it to the Champions League Final.

Toronto just surrendered six goals to a second year MLS side.

- Scott

alex andrew
05-28-2011, 06:25 PM
This is ridiculous equivalence to the extreme. At the end of the day, Man Utd fans can take solace in being EPL Champions, and making it to the Champions League Final.

Toronto just surrendered six goals to a second year MLS side.

- Scott

yes, it is a little bit poetically enhanced extreme equivalence, not exactly ridiculous.

and no, man utd fans can't take any solace in anything.

today is today is today, tomorrow is another day, but i'm talking today !

brad
05-28-2011, 06:27 PM
yes, it is a little bit poetically enhanced extreme equivalence, not exactly ridiculous.

and no, man utd fans can't take any solace in anything.

today is today is today, tomorrow is another day, but i'm talking today !

And today Manchester United are the Champions of England and TFC are shite.

BakaGaijin
05-28-2011, 06:32 PM
People seem to conveniently forget this point. Winter has brought in a good number of players and most of them are underwhelming to say the least.

Do people around think that a manager can come in and change most of the roster over a period of a few months and expect the roster to be that managers ideal line-up?!? In the fucking MLS of all leagues?!?

It doesn't matter how many people Winter and co have brought in. They purged the team from last year and are starting over. They needed to bring in bodies. Finding quality bodies with the roster restrictions and salary cap is not easy and will take time. Winter never said he would turn things around this year......I don't know why people expect that.

The management will continue to bring in players and will hopefully be able to retain the good ones on decent wages. So far, Plata has been a great find and Martina and Eckersley look useful. Anyone who has great expectations for this season is delusional. I wrote this season off a long time ago. It's a rebuilding season. Let's see what Winter does in the transfer window.

Everyone who bitches about why he goes with the same players all the time might not know the reason. Perhaps he's trying to evaluate them to see if he really wants to keep them or not.

Is this team shit? Yes, if fucking shit. However, why anyone expected differently is beyond me.

alex andrew
05-28-2011, 06:33 PM
tfc are shite now, but one hundred years and 6 billion dollars later they'll be ok, as in losing only 3-1 at home.

hey, football is beautiful !

Blowing Bubbles
05-28-2011, 06:37 PM
fuck off with the man united talk in this thread it's turning it into aids.

alex andrew
05-28-2011, 06:39 PM
was just trying to be positive, to highlight that today's game was an accident.

sorry, never intended to upset anybody.

go tfc !

ElvistheEvilScotsman
05-28-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm taking the month of June off from tfc. I'm going support Canada at the Gold Cup and reevaluate if I have it in me to support tfc for the balance of the season. Season V is an epic fail. Season I line up could kick the shit out of these useless twats

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 06:47 PM
Do people around think that a manager can come in and change most of the roster over a period of a few months and expect the roster to be that managers ideal line-up?!? In the fucking MLS of all leagues?!?

It doesn't matter how many people Winter and co have brought in. They purged the team from last year and are starting over. They needed to bring in bodies. Finding quality bodies with the roster restrictions and salary cap is not easy and will take time. Winter never said he would turn things around this year......I don't know why people expect that.

The management will continue to bring in players and will hopefully be able to retain the good ones on decent wages. So far, Plata has been a great find and Martina and Eckersley look useful. Anyone who has great expectations for this season is delusional. I wrote this season off a long time ago. It's a rebuilding season. Let's see what Winter does in the transfer window.

Everyone who bitches about why he goes with the same players all the time might not know the reason. Perhaps he's trying to evaluate them to see if he really wants to keep them or not.

Is this team shit? Yes, if fucking shit. However, why anyone expected differently is beyond me.

Your thoughts are fairly close to my own.

This is still a season of growth to me - and we are still a ways off from knowing whether that growth is occurring. I expected this season to be a write-off as far as the results column goes.

That will be little solace to the STH's paying exorbitant prices this season to go and watch it, but it is what it is. I will be interested to see what Winter does in the transfer window.

- Scott

denime
05-28-2011, 06:51 PM
Do people around think that a manager can come in and change most of the roster over a period of a few months and expect the roster to be that managers ideal line-up?!? In the fucking MLS of all leagues?!?

It doesn't matter how many people Winter and co have brought in. They purged the team from last year and are starting over. They needed to bring in bodies. Finding quality bodies with the roster restrictions and salary cap is not easy and will take time. Winter never said he would turn things around this year......I don't know why people expect that.

The management will continue to bring in players and will hopefully be able to retain the good ones on decent wages. So far, Plata has been a great find and Martina and Eckersley look useful. Anyone who has great expectations for this season is delusional. I wrote this season off a long time ago. It's a rebuilding season. Let's see what Winter does in the transfer window.

Everyone who bitches about why he goes with the same players all the time might not know the reason. Perhaps he's trying to evaluate them to see if he really wants to keep them or not.

Is this team shit? Yes, if fucking shit. However, why anyone expected differently is beyond me.


Agree 100% ,spot on.

and just to add on top of that Winter is not going anywhere for the next 12-14 months,so you can ask for his head as much as you want,but this time ML$E will not listen to us(Thanks god).

So love it or hate it, Winter will be the first TFC Coach for more than 18 months.

Waggy
05-28-2011, 06:54 PM
Man Utd didn't do themselves proud. They were poor.
Ferguson got it wrong and his team were completely outclassed.
One of the best 2 teams in the world ? :facepalm:

That MIGHT, might, be the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen on these boards. I can't think of anything that'd come close to topping it but I hesitate to say it definitely is. Either you're totally insane or incapable of appreciating greatness.

to topic- I was going to end my TFC boycott and attend the game today with 3 people who have never seen a TFC game. But I got called in to work at the last min and cancelled. Thank god for that. I'm considering hibernating until the transfer window opens.

RedsYNWA
05-28-2011, 06:55 PM
TFC are shite enough
let's please keep the Manure talk out of here

Auzzy
05-28-2011, 06:55 PM
I wonder if today was the final shit-show so MLSE gives approval to two more DPs -- and a 3rd after JDG is gone... :D (Not that a bunch of DPs is necessarily a smart thing -- RSL is doing very well without any real DP.)

I can't imagine what JDG is going to do after this season. I believe his contract is up. I think he's worth tops $200k here, if you look at this average performance. Yes he's had some good games, but also some bad ones. I can't see him being signed back in Europe for any decent money, if he keeps being so unreliable here.

Beach_Red
05-28-2011, 06:57 PM
Your thoughts are fairly close to my own.

This is still a season of growth to me - and we are still a ways off from knowing whether that growth is occurring. I expected this season to be a write-off as far as the results column goes.

That will be little solace to the STH's paying exorbitant prices this season to go and watch it, but it is what it is. I will be interested to see what Winter does in the transfer window.

- Scott

This will be the first transfer window Winter has ever participated in. Is there really any reason for us to think he will do better than every team we are chasing? Winter should have a lot more help - not assistants but guys above him in the organization. It's really too much to expect a guy to come into the league and do everything that's been asked of him.

I realize that there's Mariner, too, but since the first week he was here and said they were on the verge of a "big signing" we haven't heard much from him. And he was only ever the assistant in NE.

It's not unreasonable for us to have expected more from the 15 guys they have brought in. So far we've seen no real evidence that these guys CAN sign the players they claim they need.

canadian_bhoy
05-28-2011, 06:58 PM
I still feel like this team is better than our squad last season.
Our defense is clearly the biggest stumbling block. I think gargan got his last chance today and wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't feature in squad anymore.

2 signings could dramatically change this teams success. A left back and a target man striker.

I'm not throwing winter or the team under the bus yet.

the scoreline was our worst ever today, but I think we've had worse losses as a club.

canadian_bhoy
05-28-2011, 07:00 PM
This will be the first transfer window Winter has ever participated in. Is there really any reason for us to think he will do better than every team we are chasing? Winter should have a lot more help - not assistants but guys above him in the organization. It's really too much to expect a guy to come into the league and do everything that's been asked of him.

I realize that there's Mariner, too, but since the first week he was here and said they were on the verge of a "big signing" we haven't heard much from him. And he was only ever the assistant in NE.

It's not unreasonable for us to have expected more from the 15 guys they have brought in. So far we've seen no real evidence that these guys CAN sign the players they claim they need.

Plata and ecks are 2 of the best players to ever wear the red are some evidence to me that these guys can find and bring in talent.

Waggy
05-28-2011, 07:02 PM
I still feel like this team is better than our squad last season.
Our defense is clearly the biggest stumbling block. I think gargan got his last chance today and wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't feature in squad anymore.

2 signings could dramatically change this teams success. A left back and a target man striker.

I'm not throwing winter or the team under the bus yet.

the scoreline was our worst ever today, but I think we've had worse losses as a club.


The Vancouver away game before the Miracle in Montreal comes to mind. By far the closest I've ever come to giving up on the team. I'm pretty sure Milltown FC was born out of it

Beach_Red
05-28-2011, 07:03 PM
^ They're both on loans, aren't they? Not necessarily a bad thing, but TFC doesn't have a very good record of retaining players, either.

But maybe you're right, maybe over the next year the team will get dramatically better and leapfrog over a few teams ahead. Might as well be optimistic.

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 07:04 PM
So far we've seen no real evidence that these guys CAN sign the players they claim they need.

As you yourself mentioned, this will be his first transfer window as manager of TFC. Which is why I said it will be interesting to see what he does with it.

- Scott

lobo
05-28-2011, 07:05 PM
Winter needs new players.. he knows it and is waiting for the transfer window... be patient guys... he knows that harden and gargan etc stink

pppfffffftttt

if winter thinks they stink, then what does he think of all the players he doesn't start?

117
05-28-2011, 07:13 PM
I'm not a very principled person, as a rule. I'm usually one of the loudest to complain, but don't often take the stand needed for change.

I've ridden the roller coaster with everyone else in TFC land over the past 5 years.
I joined in with everyone who wondered about renewing over the past couple years. But I always knew that I'd renew. I hoped others would stand up, and make a point, and not renew, but I could just wait in the background, quietly renewing, hoping to reap the benefits that the protest brought.

I've got thousands of dollars in merch. Not even worth counting really. Probably close to $10,000. I've bought every ticket to every game. Every friendly. Every NCC and CCL. Even if I could go. I'd give them to friends. I've never ever gone to a game and spent less than $50. Ever.

I always figured I'd give these tickets to my kids. I always talked with my Day 1 friends about the "best $200 gamble we ever took!"

I never, ever considered not renewing. Until today. After 5 years, and all of this support and loyalty that I've shown, I don't feel any of it has been rewarded or validated in any way.

I don't need to be convinced why I'm wrong, or why I was never a fan in the first place. I never thought I'd ever be here. But I am. And as I customer, I always have a choice to buy whichever mousetrap I want. This is a horrible mousetrap. And always has been. And the company is misguided and lost, with shows no signs of recovery, or respecting the annuity with which I provide them so politely.

This isn't a case of whether I'm a real fan or not. But I had always planned on spending $3,000 to $4,000 a year (plus increases) for the next 40 years, and now, that doesn't really seem like a good idea.

Losing people like me should scare the shit out of TFC.

This was the golden goose, and the F.O. squandered it. And now, after 5 misguided years, TFC are *THIS* close to becoming the Argos. And not many people in Toronto are going to care if they succeed or not. People in your office aren't going to be talking about the backline, or the midfield. They are so close to not mattering to a lot of people. And it's too bad. Because it didn't have to be like this.

algieb
05-28-2011, 07:18 PM
What could Winter have done differently to stop that? The team blows, not much a coach can do with that.
his players buck stops with him or do we blame the supporters for not getting behind the, team 13 games in and no improvement in the team iff anything going backwards.

Waggy
05-28-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm not a very principled person, as a rule. I'm usually one of the loudest to complain, but don't often take the stand needed for change.

I've ridden the roller coaster with everyone else in TFC land over the past 5 years.
I joined in with everyone who wondered about renewing over the past couple years. But I always knew that I'd renew. I hoped others would stand up, and make a point, and not renew, but I could just wait in the background, quietly renewing, hoping to reap the benefits that the protest brought.

I've got thousands of dollars in merch. Not even worth counting really. Probably close to $10,000. I've bought every ticket to every game. Every friendly. Every NCC and CCL. Even if I could go. I'd give them to friends. I've never ever gone to a game and spent less than $50. Ever.

I always figured I'd give these tickets to my kids. I always talked with my Day 1 friends about the "best $200 gamble we ever took!"

I never, ever considered not renewing. Until today. After 5 years, and all of this support and loyalty that I've shown, I don't feel any of it has been rewarded or validated in any way.

I don't need to be convinced why I'm wrong, or why I was never a fan in the first place. I never thought I'd ever be here. But I am. And as I customer, I always have a choice to buy whichever mousetrap I want. This is a horrible mousetrap. And always has been. And the company is misguided and lost, with shows no signs of recovery, or respecting the annuity with which I provide them so politely.

This isn't a case of whether I'm a real fan or not. But I had always planned on spending $3,000 to $4,000 a year (plus increases) for the next 40 years, and now, that doesn't really seem like a good idea.

Losing people like me should scare the shit out of TFC.

This was the golden goose, and the F.O. squandered it. And now, after 5 misguided years, TFC are *THIS* close to becoming the Argos. And not many people in Toronto are going to care if they succeed or not. People in your office aren't going to be talking about the backline, or the midfield. They are so close to not mattering to a lot of people. And it's too bad. Because it didn't have to be like this.


This should be stapled to Tom Anselmi's forehead

ensco
05-28-2011, 07:19 PM
^That post by 117, that is beautifully written and 100% how it is for me also this year.

Borga
05-28-2011, 07:29 PM
To all those freaking out and abandoning the team, I have to ask, what did you expect? Yes, today was a disgrace. But if you thought this season was going to be a cakewalk then you were sniffing glue. A good team isn't built in a few months. We should be happy if we're seeing some consistent signs of progress by mid-season. Playoffs? Very unlikely, and they always have been.

Give your head a shake, people. Take a nap. Calm down. It's going to be okay.

Blixa
05-28-2011, 07:30 PM
Perfect post by #117. At least I've been clever enough to figure this out after the second season. Better late than never in your case 117.

algieb
05-28-2011, 07:30 PM
table does not lie unless he brings in at least 5 players we will be sitting bottom

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 07:33 PM
I'm not a very principled person, as a rule. I'm usually one of the loudest to complain, but don't often take the stand needed for change.

I've ridden the roller coaster with everyone else in TFC land over the past 5 years.
I joined in with everyone who wondered about renewing over the past couple years. But I always knew that I'd renew. I hoped others would stand up, and make a point, and not renew, but I could just wait in the background, quietly renewing, hoping to reap the benefits that the protest brought.

I've got thousands of dollars in merch. Not even worth counting really. Probably close to $10,000. I've bought every ticket to every game. Every friendly. Every NCC and CCL. Even if I could go. I'd give them to friends. I've never ever gone to a game and spent less than $50. Ever.

I always figured I'd give these tickets to my kids. I always talked with my Day 1 friends about the "best $200 gamble we ever took!"

I never, ever considered not renewing. Until today. After 5 years, and all of this support and loyalty that I've shown, I don't feel any of it has been rewarded or validated in any way.

I don't need to be convinced why I'm wrong, or why I was never a fan in the first place. I never thought I'd ever be here. But I am. And as I customer, I always have a choice to buy whichever mousetrap I want. This is a horrible mousetrap. And always has been. And the company is misguided and lost, with shows no signs of recovery, or respecting the annuity with which I provide them so politely.

This isn't a case of whether I'm a real fan or not. But I had always planned on spending $3,000 to $4,000 a year (plus increases) for the next 40 years, and now, that doesn't really seem like a good idea.

Losing people like me should scare the shit out of TFC.

This was the golden goose, and the F.O. squandered it. And now, after 5 misguided years, TFC are *THIS* close to becoming the Argos. And not many people in Toronto are going to care if they succeed or not. People in your office aren't going to be talking about the backline, or the midfield. They are so close to not mattering to a lot of people. And it's too bad. Because it didn't have to be like this.

Welcome to the club. While I'm optimistic about TFC's future with Winter at the helm for now, I've also made the conscious choice not to spend any more money on tickets or concessions for now.

It's going to take more than a hopeful change of direction to earn my money again.

- Scott

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 07:33 PM
Honestly Scott, I really want to be in your boat. I want to feel good about this team again. I really want to know: What exactly makes you "optimistic" about this team?

Strans
05-28-2011, 07:34 PM
Borga:

It's not about abandoning the team- we all love the team. What you're seeing is 5 years of frustration summed up by a humiliating defeat on our home pitch by a second year squad.

Everyone will be there if/when this club turns it around, but you can't be a supporter of this team and take a 6-2 home loss in stride. You just can't.

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 07:34 PM
Perfect post by #117. At least I've been clever enough to figure this out after the second season. Better late than never in your case 117.

You don't think perhaps the second season was a bit early to jump ship?

- Scott

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 07:35 PM
To all those freaking out and abandoning the team, I have to ask, what did you expect? Yes, today was a disgrace. But if you thought this season was going to be a cakewalk then you were sniffing glue. A good team isn't built in a few months. We should be happy if we're seeing some consistent signs of progress by mid-season. Playoffs? Very unlikely, and they always have been.

Give your head a shake, people. Take a nap. Calm down. It's going to be okay.

Again with this "good teams aren't built in a few months" argument. Um yeah they are. And if any fanbase deserved an all-out effort to build a good team quickly as opposed to slowly, it was Toronto FC fans. If a capable team cannot be built in a few months, how much time is actually needed so that we can finally put some expectations on the table?

Bars92
05-28-2011, 07:36 PM
I'm not a very principled person, as a rule. I'm usually one of the loudest to complain, but don't often take the stand needed for change.

I've ridden the roller coaster with everyone else in TFC land over the past 5 years.
I joined in with everyone who wondered about renewing over the past couple years. But I always knew that I'd renew. I hoped others would stand up, and make a point, and not renew, but I could just wait in the background, quietly renewing, hoping to reap the benefits that the protest brought.

I've got thousands of dollars in merch. Not even worth counting really. Probably close to $10,000. I've bought every ticket to every game. Every friendly. Every NCC and CCL. Even if I could go. I'd give them to friends. I've never ever gone to a game and spent less than $50. Ever.

I always figured I'd give these tickets to my kids. I always talked with my Day 1 friends about the "best $200 gamble we ever took!"

I never, ever considered not renewing. Until today. After 5 years, and all of this support and loyalty that I've shown, I don't feel any of it has been rewarded or validated in any way.

I don't need to be convinced why I'm wrong, or why I was never a fan in the first place. I never thought I'd ever be here. But I am. And as I customer, I always have a choice to buy whichever mousetrap I want. This is a horrible mousetrap. And always has been. And the company is misguided and lost, with shows no signs of recovery, or respecting the annuity with which I provide them so politely.

This isn't a case of whether I'm a real fan or not. But I had always planned on spending $3,000 to $4,000 a year (plus increases) for the next 40 years, and now, that doesn't really seem like a good idea.

Losing people like me should scare the shit out of TFC.

This was the golden goose, and the F.O. squandered it. And now, after 5 misguided years, TFC are *THIS* close to becoming the Argos. And not many people in Toronto are going to care if they succeed or not. People in your office aren't going to be talking about the backline, or the midfield. They are so close to not mattering to a lot of people. And it's too bad. Because it didn't have to be like this.

nothing could be as miserable as an argos game. even if we lose this bad

ManUtd4ever
05-28-2011, 07:45 PM
I'm not a very principled person, as a rule. I'm usually one of the loudest to complain, but don't often take the stand needed for change.

I've ridden the roller coaster with everyone else in TFC land over the past 5 years.
I joined in with everyone who wondered about renewing over the past couple years. But I always knew that I'd renew. I hoped others would stand up, and make a point, and not renew, but I could just wait in the background, quietly renewing, hoping to reap the benefits that the protest brought.

I've got thousands of dollars in merch. Not even worth counting really. Probably close to $10,000. I've bought every ticket to every game. Every friendly. Every NCC and CCL. Even if I could go. I'd give them to friends. I've never ever gone to a game and spent less than $50. Ever.

I always figured I'd give these tickets to my kids. I always talked with my Day 1 friends about the "best $200 gamble we ever took!"

I never, ever considered not renewing. Until today. After 5 years, and all of this support and loyalty that I've shown, I don't feel any of it has been rewarded or validated in any way.

I don't need to be convinced why I'm wrong, or why I was never a fan in the first place. I never thought I'd ever be here. But I am. And as I customer, I always have a choice to buy whichever mousetrap I want. This is a horrible mousetrap. And always has been. And the company is misguided and lost, with shows no signs of recovery, or respecting the annuity with which I provide them so politely.

This isn't a case of whether I'm a real fan or not. But I had always planned on spending $3,000 to $4,000 a year (plus increases) for the next 40 years, and now, that doesn't really seem like a good idea.

Losing people like me should scare the shit out of TFC.

This was the golden goose, and the F.O. squandered it. And now, after 5 misguided years, TFC are *THIS* close to becoming the Argos. And not many people in Toronto are going to care if they succeed or not. People in your office aren't going to be talking about the backline, or the midfield. They are so close to not mattering to a lot of people. And it's too bad. Because it didn't have to be like this.

Excellent post. I can certainly empathize based on all of your concerns. I share your pain and frustration along with everyone else.

I will continue to support the club regardless of the results this season because I'm in this for the long haul. I have drastically cut back spending on merchandise compared to the first few seasons, but I will renew my seasons tickets because having a professional football club to support in Toronto was a dream come true. Unfortunately, MLSE has tested my patience with the issues off the pitch, but I'm willing to give the new management regime time to do things right on the pitch.

I sincerely hope that Winter and Mariner will be able to improve the club this season sufficiently enough to convince you and other likeminded supporters not to throw in the towel yet.

117
05-28-2011, 07:47 PM
nothing could be as miserable as an argos game. even if we lose this bad

Haha. I hope not!

I should also point out that I've paid to attend over 500 Blue Jays games in the past 18 miserable years, and still go to 15-20 a year.

I don't demand instant success, nor annual championship parades. I just need to feel that me and my wallet are not being made a fool of.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 07:49 PM
I have drastically cut back spending on merchandise compared to the first few seasons, but I will renew my seasons tickets because having a professional football club to support in Toronto was a dream come true.

It is this dream that still keeps me around and forces me to keep the remaining tickets I have not given up. Everything else has been ruined for me and I am in the same boat as you are and have taken my spending down to almost zero on everything except the actual tickets, even though I would like to buy the new jerseys and kit my newborn son in everything TFC, I refuse to do so. Because I refuse to contribute to the MLSE belief that fans will continue buying and spending regardless of the product they put in front of us, regardless of the sport. But the last thing I will ever be able to do is give up my remaining tickets. There is a small, faint glimmer of hope that one day the soccer gods will bless us finally and get rid of the failing element within TFC.

billyfly
05-28-2011, 07:49 PM
At the end of the day i'm still born and raised in Toronto. What else can I do?

Batman
05-28-2011, 07:52 PM
I'm not a very principled person, as a rule. I'm usually one of the loudest to complain, but don't often take the stand needed for change.

I've ridden the roller coaster with everyone else in TFC land over the past 5 years.
I joined in with everyone who wondered about renewing over the past couple years. But I always knew that I'd renew. I hoped others would stand up, and make a point, and not renew, but I could just wait in the background, quietly renewing, hoping to reap the benefits that the protest brought.

I've got thousands of dollars in merch. Not even worth counting really. Probably close to $10,000. I've bought every ticket to every game. Every friendly. Every NCC and CCL. Even if I could go. I'd give them to friends. I've never ever gone to a game and spent less than $50. Ever.

I always figured I'd give these tickets to my kids. I always talked with my Day 1 friends about the "best $200 gamble we ever took!"

I never, ever considered not renewing. Until today. After 5 years, and all of this support and loyalty that I've shown, I don't feel any of it has been rewarded or validated in any way.

I don't need to be convinced why I'm wrong, or why I was never a fan in the first place. I never thought I'd ever be here. But I am. And as I customer, I always have a choice to buy whichever mousetrap I want. This is a horrible mousetrap. And always has been. And the company is misguided and lost, with shows no signs of recovery, or respecting the annuity with which I provide them so politely.

This isn't a case of whether I'm a real fan or not. But I had always planned on spending $3,000 to $4,000 a year (plus increases) for the next 40 years, and now, that doesn't really seem like a good idea.

Losing people like me should scare the shit out of TFC.

This was the golden goose, and the F.O. squandered it. And now, after 5 misguided years, TFC are *THIS* close to becoming the Argos. And not many people in Toronto are going to care if they succeed or not. People in your office aren't going to be talking about the backline, or the midfield. They are so close to not mattering to a lot of people. And it's too bad. Because it didn't have to be like this.

POST OF THE YEAR!

Shakes McQueen
05-28-2011, 07:53 PM
Honestly Scott, I really want to be in your boat. I want to feel good about this team again. I really want to know: What exactly makes you "optimistic" about this team?

It's no one thing - occasionally the team has runs of play where you can see signs of what Winter has been preaching seeping in. You can see the talent of guys he has brought on board like Plata and Ecks.

It's nothing more than optimism right now, because I think it's going to take time to truly assess whether Winter's vision is taking hold, or looking like the right path for this team.

My position from day one has been that all I want to see from Winter this year, is clear evidence of progression in the way we play, and the new players we are bringing onboard. The results for me this season, are secondary.

I try to keep that outlook immune from the emotional responses I may have after games like today, and keep an even keel. We played a solid game in Colorado the other day, and we played an abysmal game today at home. I wasn't effusive with my praise then, and I'm not raging now. This season for me is less about results, and more about the process.

That said, I understand that not everyone sees it this way. Negativity towards this team is warranted. It's all reading tea leaves right now, so there are multiple ways of looking at the state of the club.

- Scott

algieb
05-28-2011, 07:54 PM
the support are looking for the improvement we were promised 13 games in can anyone say we have improvement

cochrdoc
05-28-2011, 08:14 PM
I have never been to a game in toronto but have travelled to boston to see the team play as I am from the maritimes.I got home at half time to turn on the tv to a 3-0 score .I thought there might be hope as the team scored 2 quick goals.Only to see our porous defence give up 2 more goals.I hope the front office has a plan for the summer transfer when it opens up as I believe the fan support is going to leave .As I watch the games on TV it is very evident that the crowds are getting smaller.I keep thinking of planning a trip to BMO field to see a game and then we get another performance like this.We have players that need to be dropped or put on the bench.Our core is not that deep and Winter has a big job to do to turn this team around.I am glad that they play New England mid week this year as I won`t be making the trip.Just when you think they might start putting something together it falls apart.Some decisions have to be made by this coaching staff and front office .We got hammered by Vancouver in the first game and today by a second year team.It scares me to think what Portland is going to on their home field

CretanBull
05-28-2011, 08:29 PM
What's with all the negativity? You guys are acting like a 2nd year club just humilated us at home. Or like traded our best player in franchise history to NY for a bag of peanuts. Or like we released our top prospect to make some kind of asinine point. C'mon guys, its not as if losses are increasing while talent is decreasing. We're on the right track now.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 08:30 PM
I have never been to a game in toronto but have travelled to boston to see the team play as I am from the maritimes.I got home at half time to turn on the tv to a 3-0 score .I thought there might be hope as the team scored 2 quick goals.Only to see our porous defence give up 2 more goals.I hope the front office has a plan for the summer transfer when it opens up as I believe the fan support is going to leave .As I watch the games on TV it is very evident that the crowds are getting smaller.I keep thinking of planning a trip to BMO field to see a game and then we get another performance like this.We have players that need to be dropped or put on the bench.Our core is not that deep and Winter has a big job to do to turn this team around.I am glad that they play New England mid week this year as I won`t be making the trip.Just when you think they might start putting something together it falls apart.Some decisions have to be made by this coaching staff and front office .We got hammered by Vancouver in the first game and today by a second year team.It scares me to think what Portland is going to on their home field

At this point, I don't think it's if, but when. There will be new players this summer, I will guarantee a mortgage payment on that. The question really is, will they be the right ones? Or will we be seeing more "Mista" signings? Mariner promised us the goals would come from "elsewhere". What is obvious is that not only are the goals not coming from elsewhere, we are expending so much energy in trying to score with what little we have, we are now exposing our backline as well. If anyone thinks that a 6-2 scoreline falls entirely on the shoulders of two of the least paid players, (Harden and Gargan) you have got to be kidding yourselves.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 08:30 PM
What's with all the negativity? You guys are acting like a 2nd year club just humilated us at home. Or like traded our best player in franchise history to NY for a bag of peanuts. Or like we released our top prospect to make some kind of asinine point. C'mon guys, its not as if losses are increasing while talent is decreasing. We're on the right track now.


Roogsy? Is that you? Give CB back his computer.

Bluenose13
05-28-2011, 08:34 PM
What's with all the negativity? You guys are acting like a 2nd year club just humilated us at home. Or like traded our best player in franchise history to NY for a bag of peanuts. Or like we released our top prospect to make some kind of asinine point. C'mon guys, its not as if losses are increasing while talent is decreasing. We're on the right track now.Fuck me......I need another drink, better make it a double :drinking::drinking:

CretanBull
05-28-2011, 08:36 PM
At the end of the day i'm still born and raised in Toronto. What else can I do?

http://www.envirowarrior.com/images/brown-paper-bag.jpg

You'll need to cut holes for yours eyes and mouth.

Davenport
05-28-2011, 08:55 PM
TFC are shite enough
let's please keep the Manure talk out of here
Good idea, I hate them. I was just responding to 2 deluded souls who think the current Manure team is great.

Davenport
05-28-2011, 09:01 PM
To all those freaking out and abandoning the team, I have to ask, what did you expect? Yes, today was a disgrace. But if you thought this season was going to be a cakewalk then you were sniffing glue. A good team isn't built in a few months. We should be happy if we're seeing some consistent signs of progress by mid-season. Playoffs? Very unlikely, and they always have been.

Give your head a shake, people. Take a nap. Calm down. It's going to be okay.
A good team hasn't been built here in 5 years FFS and it's NOT okay.

Mikey
05-28-2011, 09:02 PM
LOL... fortress BMO... sorry all I have left is to laugh....

69Chevy396
05-28-2011, 09:06 PM
New York were horrible a couple seasons back, woeful team with nothing good happening, much like TFC are today, then became a contender in one season. This is MLS where a shit team and a good team are one or two players apart. TFC needs to get rid of JDG. The club plays much better without him, the midfield plays more aggressive, more offense minded. With him on the pitch the whole team appears disorganized with poor formation and tactics, and are very easy to beat. Replace him with a decent goal scoring threat and the club will turn around in a hurry. You don't need a dozen great players, just a few, again, remember, this is MLS. Having said this, I left the game at the half it was unwatchable and I did not want to miss watching Messi prove he is the best player of all time.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 09:14 PM
New York were horrible a couple seasons back, woeful team with nothing good happening, much like TFC are today, then became a contender in one season. This is MLS where a shit team and a good team are one or two players apart. TFC needs to get rid of JDG. The club plays much better without him, the midfield plays more aggressive, more offense minded. With him on the pitch the whole team appears disorganized with poor formation and tactics, and are very easy to beat. Replace him with a decent goal scoring threat and the club will turn around in a hurry. You don't need a dozen great players, just a few, again, remember, this is MLS. Having said this, I left the game at the half it was unwatchable and I did not want to miss watching Messi prove he is the best player of all time.

Don't tell people around here about New York being a good example. They won't believe it. Hans Backe had almost exactly the same amount of time as Winter has had (in fact 1 day less) and he had his team ready for the first game of the season and they went on a tear immediately at the start of the season and completely turned around their previous woeful season IN WEEKS, not months, not years. For some reason, Toronto fans don't believe this is doable even though others have done it. Instead, around here the growing belief is we need another multi-year plan, that puts a lot of hope on the Academy oh and by the way, we've decided not to keep our best Academy player. :drinking:

We are now 4 and a half months in, 16 games into the season, plus whatever games were played in pre-season and our backline looks like that? And we have a -10 goal differential? (Which by the way we were already worst in the league but now we have stretched that to an unreachable level.) I am thoroughly confused as to what people are seeing that continues to give them hope. I need to hear it because I honestly want to have that hope as well. I need something to believe in about this team so that I don't completely give up on them.

HiHotorontofc
05-28-2011, 09:23 PM
Things not looking too rosey eh?

SilverSamurai
05-28-2011, 09:25 PM
Alright I'll chime in.
I used to be passionate about TFC and would always go out of my way to make sure I watched the matches. On the off chance I did miss one, I'd feel bad. But this year, I honestly, don't feel so bad. It's like I've come to accept TFC is just bad and that little to no progress has been made.
FTR, I don't have seasons and refuse to pay for the ransom packs. Plus w/ my messed up work schedule, I can't even go to games.

I won't be spending another nickel on anything TFC related until I see progress, be it in the Champions League or MLS league itself.
But I won't stop being a fan though.
Flame suit on...

Rocco
05-28-2011, 09:26 PM
I'm too depressed to come up with any ideas right now....


Toronto till i die :(

jazzy
05-28-2011, 09:27 PM
lol, Winter is going to offer his resignation that's nonsense, he's not had enough time to SHAPE the team....lol, bloody Toronto/Golden HorseShoe mentality that things can be done SUPER fast.

If everyone calms the hell down, takes a breath and lets the man make some transfers in 2 days, maybe we'll see an improved squad.

so much for a 'supporters' forum.

p.s YES i did find the performance abysmal, the players have to take responsibility for their terrible play, it can't just winter as the fall out guy all the time.
yup...
tommorrows another day......and supporting should be a long and prosperous journey, if people can't handle the lows then they definitely have zero right to the highs. Simply stop going or buying tickets, or is it just the constant complaining everyone is addicted to?..bad game yup but like the fans who were constantly foul mouthed at their heros?...today ....why go then?,..simply enjoy your Man u's Liverpools or whatever......and look for your perfect little soccer bliss,....cause real life is found in the journey

Mikey
05-28-2011, 09:29 PM
LOL... fan boys

TorontoGooner
05-28-2011, 10:07 PM
What's with all the negativity? You guys are acting like a 2nd year club just humilated us at home. Or like traded our best player in franchise history to NY for a bag of peanuts. Or like we released our top prospect to make some kind of asinine point. C'mon guys, its not as if losses are increasing while talent is decreasing. We're on the right track now.

I think the negativity is a consequence of an appalling 6-2 defeat at home. We are a fifth year club who were embarrassed by a second year team. Plus, we paid over the odds to watch this happen.

You can sing all you want, you can say we're a club in change, but at the end of the day you're as good as your last game. Am I real supporter? Who gives a shit, I've poured a lot of hard earned money in to a team that couldn't give a flying fuck. You can say 'if you don't like it don't come' but too many people won't turn up and the club won't be profitable, thus cease to exist.

I'm an ex-Arsenal season ticket holder, who spent many a year on the road with them so the likes of me don't need lecturing in being a real fan. Trust me.

Just because I don't jump around and spend most of the game with my back to the pitch doesn't mean I care any less. I'm just watching the highlights again on Gol Tv and I genuinely believe there are certain players who don't even deserve the title of 'Professional Football Player'.

Show me evidence of the right 'track' and I'll see the light at the end of the tunnel. Don't mean to pick on you in particular dude but its this blind faith that's led to us being held over a barrel

Dv23
05-28-2011, 10:09 PM
Can I get my friends a tryout now? Some DO play defense.

Heathen
05-28-2011, 10:15 PM
Anyone who can't see that this franchise is in serious trouble must have their eyes closed. Look around you at games, how many of the regulars from even up to last season are gone? how difficult is it to get rid of tickets? hell I'm shocked to even see scalpers these days.
It's all very well giving Winter time but it's time TFC doesn't have, soon the remaining stock of first-timers who been living under a rock and still want to experience the long dead atmosphere from 4 years ago will be exhausted. Tell me if this is year 1 of the rebuild can you see us beating anyone 6-2 on the road in a years time? because that's what the Union did to us today in their second year.
I don't think it will do any good right now sacking Winter but he needs Mariner to slap him straight on the realities of the MLS. I feel he's come over here with preconceived European arrogance that his methods will automatically work here and he's been schooled, actually today he was absolutely humiliated.

Pookie
05-28-2011, 10:15 PM
Hans Backe, with no MLS experience to his credit would have been an overwhelmingly positive choice. No second guessers at all

CretanBull
05-28-2011, 10:16 PM
I think the negativity is a consequence of an appalling 6-2 defeat at home. We are a fifth year club who were embarrassed by a second year team. Plus, we paid over the odds to watch this happen.

You can sing all you want, you can say we're a club in change, but at the end of the day you're as good as your last game. Am I real supporter? Who gives a shit, I've poured a lot of hard earned money in to a team that couldn't give a flying fuck. You can say 'if you don't like it don't come' but too many people won't turn up and the club won't be profitable, thus cease to exist.

I'm an ex-Arsenal season ticket holder, who spent many a year on the road with them so the likes of me don't need lecturing in being a real fan. Trust me.

Just because I don't jump around and spend most of the game with my back to the pitch doesn't mean I care any less. I'm just watching the highlights again on Gol Tv and I genuinely believe there are certain players who don't even deserve the title of 'Professional Football Player'.

Show me evidence of the right 'track' and I'll see the light at the end of the tunnel. Don't mean to pick on you in particular dude but its this blind faith that's led to us being held over a barrel

My post was sarcastic ;)

I've been saying that this team is shit for a long time and people have been on my back about being negative...now that everyone is being negative I posted the "we're on the right track" BS that people have been directing at me for the last few months.

TorontoGooner
05-28-2011, 10:18 PM
^^ fair play brother.

Hitcho
05-28-2011, 10:22 PM
http://kickthis.typepad.com/.a/6a0115707beb82970b0133ecc2b2cd970b-800wi

Haha - brilliant!


Year 1 team would kick the ass of Year 5.

Not sure about kick the ass of, but they'd defnitely win for heart and effort alone. God I wish Dichio was still playing.


Really, what makes him think he CAN find players who can play his system that will sign with TFC?

Frankly, I don't think players good enough to flourish in a possession based attacking 4-3-3 will be found in MLS, so we could struggle terminally there, I agree.


Maybe now we're starting to see why no other MLS team hired Soccer Solutions.

Hah! Any chance of a refund, Mr Klinsmann?


I am thoroughly confused as to what people are seeing that continues to give them hope. I need to hear it because I honestly want to have that hope as well. I need something to believe in about this team so that I don't completely give up on them.

The very essence of being a sports fan is to back a team and then attach baseless and unrealistic hope to it. The question is circular. You can't have one without the other.

Unless you're a glory seeker, in which case you attach expectation instead of hope and get pissed off if your expectations aren't met, then switch to a side that's doing better. Nobody likes glory seekers, so stick with it mate. The sports fans among us would be happy to keep you around.

razor787
05-28-2011, 10:23 PM
Both Klinsmann and Winter said not to expect anything from this year. The season was written off before any of the players were signed. AND EVERYONE WAS OK WITH IT. Why, now that its actually happening, are people so livid? A couple months ago hearing that we have a new coach, implementing a new system, and giving our academy system a complete revamp, everyone was pumped up, and took it as the best news coming out of MLSE since the announcement of the club. Now nobody is happy with the decision that was made, and is back with all the ‘MLSE is the devil’ talk.

If Winter gets sacked, or leaves, I put all the blame on the fans of the club. We keep telling MLSE what we want, they listen and give us what we ask for. And each and every time, it was either the wrong move, or we instantly curl our nose up and say 'oh i don't want this anymore'.

We cried out for DeGuzman. Turns out MLS level players around him kill his effectiveness.

We asked for Ali Gerba. When he got here, nobody would shut up about how out of shape he was.

We wanted an attractive, attacking style of football. Turns out the physicality of MLS kills that.

It's only a matter of time before everyone completely turns on Winter, gets him run out of town, and then once again blame MLSE for fucking up. Maybe the bigger problem is the fans not knowing what the hell they want, and not letting the management do their thing. So my opinion on this issue. Don’t expect anything from this year. Hell, even next year will probably be a write-off. If we let Winter work with the team to get them setup with his system, and get the academy players learning it, then we will be a great team in a year or two.

If we keep complaining like we are now, the front office will be scared and end up scrapping Winter, and we will be in the same boat as every season. A brand new coach, doing yet another team rebuild.

Pookie
05-28-2011, 10:27 PM
Don't tell people around here about New York being a good example. They won't believe it. Hans Backe had almost exactly the same amount of time as Winter has had (in fact 1 day less) and he had his team ready for the first game of the season and they went on a tear immediately at the start of the season and completely turned around their previous woeful season IN WEEKS, not months, not years. .

You should tell the whole story.

NY didn't start with nothing. Sure they were awful in 2009 but finished no worse than 5th in every other campaign from 2000 on. In that year they finished 5th, they went to the final. They weren't exactly in the same place we are building from.

Beach_Red
05-28-2011, 10:33 PM
Hans Backe, with no MLS experience to his credit would have been an overwhelmingly positive choice. No second guessers at all

No MLS, that's right, but some head coaching experience. NY also changed ownership.

But all this looking at other MLS teams seems pointless. So far MLSE have shown no interest at all in looking at the other teams in the league for very much.

Heathen
05-28-2011, 10:34 PM
Both Klinsmann and Winter said not to expect anything from this year. The season was written off before any of the players were signed. AND EVERYONE WAS OK WITH IT. Why, now that its actually happening, are people so livid? A couple months ago hearing that we have a new coach, implementing a new system, and giving our academy system a complete revamp, everyone was pumped up, and took it as the best news coming out of MLSE since the announcement of the club. Now nobody is happy with the decision that was made, and is back with all the ‘MLSE is the devil’ talk.

If Winter gets sacked, or leaves, I put all the blame on the fans of the club. We keep telling MLSE what we want, they listen and give us what we ask for. And each and every time, it was either the wrong move, or we instantly curl our nose up and say 'oh i don't want this anymore'.

We cried out for DeGuzman. Turns out MLS level players around him kill his effectiveness.

We asked for Ali Gerba. When he got here, nobody would shut up about how out of shape he was.

We wanted an attractive, attacking style of football. Turns out the physicality of MLS kills that.

It's only a matter of time before everyone completely turns on Winter, gets him run out of town, and then once again blame MLSE for fucking up. Maybe the bigger problem is the fans not knowing what the hell they want, and not letting the management do their thing. So my opinion on this issue. Don’t expect anything from this year. Hell, even next year will probably be a write-off. If we let Winter work with the team to get them setup with his system, and get the academy players learning it, then we will be a great team in a year or two.

If we keep complaining like we are now, the front office will be scared and end up scrapping Winter, and we will be in the same boat as every season. A brand new coach, doing yet another team rebuild.

Er no we weren't you may have been but some of us expected some kind of improvement, in performances if not results at least.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 11:00 PM
If Winter gets sacked, or leaves, I put all the blame on the fans of the club. We keep telling MLSE what we want, they listen and give us what we ask for. And each and every time, it was either the wrong move, or we instantly curl our nose up and say 'oh i don't want this anymore'.


I think it's tacitly unfair to characterize unhappiness with the club as automatically meaning those that are unhappy also demanding that Winter be sacked. Obviously I have been one of the most critical of the team on this board. Have you ever read my saying anything of the sort? So then why assume? I will go on record as saying I don't want Winter gone. I am not happy he was our choice but I certainly don't want the revolving door of coaches to continue either. But things are they are developing now is not good and the sign of a smart person is that they identify that perhaps their initial strategy is not working and make adjustments along the way. We have not seen that from Winter and we really need to start...and soon. He's making the same mistakes he was making at the beginning of the season. I firmly believe he is running the risk of losing the lockerroom and if he does, it doesn't matter what the fans scream and yell, the results will do him in at the end and yeah, we will be back at square one. I, just like you, don't want that.

Roogsy
05-28-2011, 11:03 PM
You should tell the whole story.

NY didn't start with nothing. Sure they were awful in 2009 but finished no worse than 5th in every other campaign from 2000 on. In that year they finished 5th, they went to the final. They weren't exactly in the same place we are building from.

Really? You're going back as far as using the Metrostars results to compare?

There is only one relevant fact, at least more relevant than comparing 2001 Metrostars to the 2009 Red Bulls and that is this: Was NYRB the worst team in 2009? Yes or no? Were they not massively improved in 2010? Yes or no. Beyond that, it's just an exercise in rationalization and irrelevance. The argument made is that an MLS team does not need multiple-years to turn around. NYRB shows us with the right moves and the right attitude, this is possible. End of story.

Certainly a 6-2 drubbing today and a failure to dominate the REAL expansion side in the Whitecaps these past couple of weeks doesn't tell a story of progress.

Couchy81
05-28-2011, 11:11 PM
Certainly a 6-2 drubbing today and a failure to dominate the REAL expansion side in the Whitecaps these past couple of weeks doesn't tell a story of progress.

An objective viewpoint would certainly see this recent string of games as regress.

We need Mariner to go to work.

DichioTFC
05-28-2011, 11:13 PM
^Re the pictures, you need to realize that huge numbers of supporters bolted at the 70th minute (after the 5th PU goal) because of the impending UEFA CL kickoff. Can you blame them, really?

Can't blame them at all. Just point it out.


May as well start talking about next year's first overall pick....
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/12-best-superdraft-prospects-2012

Soony Sood. Trust me, he's exactly what he need. Like Omar Salgado but better.

Pachuco
05-28-2011, 11:47 PM
At times, that was some of the best soccer TFC has ever played at BMO field.

TFCRegina
05-28-2011, 11:53 PM
Well, at least I had written off the season a few weeks back. Doesn't so much hurt as continues my feeling of nothingness towards TFC.

Oh well, at least the National teams are doing alright this year. U-17 World Cup, Women's World Cup, Ecuador Friendly, Gold Cup, and World Cup Qualifying (1st Group round) are all this year. Go Canada Go!

rocker
05-28-2011, 11:57 PM
Certainly a 6-2 drubbing today and a failure to dominate the REAL expansion side in the Whitecaps these past couple of weeks doesn't tell a story of progress.

Nobody has dominated the Whitecaps. They have been competitive in most games.

TFCRegina
05-28-2011, 11:57 PM
I think it's tacitly unfair to characterize unhappiness with the club as automatically meaning those that are unhappy also demanding that Winter be sacked. Obviously I have been one of the most critical of the team on this board. Have you ever read my saying anything of the sort? So then why assume? I will go on record as saying I don't want Winter gone. I am not happy he was our choice but I certainly don't want the revolving door of coaches to continue either. But things are they are developing now is not good and the sign of a smart person is that they identify that perhaps their initial strategy is not working and make adjustments along the way. We have not seen that from Winter and we really need to start...and soon. He's making the same mistakes he was making at the beginning of the season. I firmly believe he is running the risk of losing the lockerroom and if he does, it doesn't matter what the fans scream and yell, the results will do him in at the end and yeah, we will be back at square one. I, just like you, don't want that.

The last thing we need is another firing of a coach right now. What we need is some smart man management, smarter tactical decisions (even if it means modifying our dream of possession oriented attacking football to a more workable direct game). We don't have the men to execute on the pitch right now, and all that is happening is we're embarrassing the manager, and embarrassing the club.

I'm not going to praise Winter for progress and I'm not going to have a love in for his man management style (or maybe that's upper MLSE management like I suspect) until I start seeing positive developments.

There have been flashes of what we want. I felt the result in Colorado was a good thing. I've seen good play in various games, or at various points in games. But I've also seen a lot of crap too

At this point, we don't have the men to pull it off consistently and it really really sucks. And firing Winter would make it worse.

colman1860
05-29-2011, 12:05 AM
I just looked through this entire thread (didn't have the heart to read it all, just used ctrl + f) for mentions of Santos. He gets two mentions - the first is somebody mentioning how both his goals were offside (nonsense - the first goal there is no replay to prove that, the second the pass clearly comes from letoux), and then somebody mentions how it's nice that he came to the south stands after the game.

Not a single person said it's good to see that we have a pretty consistent goalscoring striker for the first time in our history (if you want to call DeRo a midfielder)! Countless people said everyone on this team is useless except Eckersley and Frei! Of course this game was terrible, but let's give some credit where credit is due!

Juanito
05-29-2011, 12:15 AM
Today, I have done something I have never done before .... I walked out of the stadium with my wife before the final whistle. Hell, we didn't even last till halftime. Once the third goal went in, we got up and left to go watch the Champions League final.

I'm not "giving up" on the club because I'm either STUPID, or am a gluten for punishment. The reason I won't give up is because if enough of us do that, this club will cease to exist. HOWEVER, I REFUSE to give this club any of my money beyond that. No merchandise, no beer at the concessions, nothing.

SO TFC .... you want that "good feel" vibe to come back to BMO? PLAY LIKE YOU CARE!!

Juanito
05-29-2011, 12:16 AM
I just looked through this entire thread (didn't have the heart to read it all, just used ctrl + f) for mentions of Santos. He gets two mentions - the first is somebody mentioning how both his goals were offside (nonsense - the first goal there is no replay to prove that, the second the pass clearly comes from letoux), and then somebody mentions how it's nice that he came to the south stands after the game.

Not a single person said it's good to see that we have a pretty consistent goalscoring striker for the first time in our history (if you want to call DeRo a midfielder)! Countless people said everyone on this team is useless except Eckersley and Frei! Of course this game was terrible, but let's give some credit where credit is due!

I see your point Colman, but I think the utter SHAME of that defeat has overshadowed everything else!

torontocelt
05-29-2011, 12:21 AM
At times, that was some of the best soccer TFC has ever played at BMO field.
\

That was some of the the worst football I've seen at BMO for sure!!!


If someone wants to to defend that that then please go on , absolute shit. This is fucked up, like I have been for saying for a long time.

QSIM
05-29-2011, 12:29 AM
6-2. Entertaining. And thats what MLSE wants, right?

I don't know what to say after this one. I've been to BMO plenty of times, sun, rain, sleet, night, day, squandered leads and lifeless draws but today was the first day that I didn't enjoy myself. We've been piss for 5 years but for some reason today I couldn't take it anymore, it just wasn't fun. We have some quality in the side, but no where near enough depth to compete. Today could've, should've* been 7,8-2. Frei gets a pass today, hes been too good for too long and it was really upsetting to hear him jeered.

As an aside, was that Borman who got turned away at Joes?

Juanito
05-29-2011, 12:37 AM
6-2. Entertaining. And thats what MLSE wants, right?

I don't know what to say after this one. I've been to BMO plenty of times, sun, rain, sleet, night, day, squandered leads and lifeless draws but today was the first day that I didn't enjoy myself. We've been piss for 5 years but for some reason today I couldn't take it anymore, it just wasn't fun. We have some quality in the side, but no where near enough depth to compete. Today could've, should've* been 7,8-2. Frei gets a pass today, hes been too good for too long and it was really upsetting to hear him jeered.

As an aside, was that Borman who got turned away at Joes?

Yeah. I knew we weren't going to be world-beaters this year but all I wanted was for this team to be entertaining and be good enough to nick one of the 7 billion playoff spots this season.

Today, I was NOT entertained, and I literally walked out after the third goal!

TFCRegina
05-29-2011, 12:49 AM
6-2. Entertaining. And thats what MLSE wants, right?

I don't know what to say after this one. I've been to BMO plenty of times, sun, rain, sleet, night, day, squandered leads and lifeless draws but today was the first day that I didn't enjoy myself. We've been piss for 5 years but for some reason today I couldn't take it anymore, it just wasn't fun. We have some quality in the side, but no where near enough depth to compete. Today could've, should've* been 7,8-2. Frei gets a pass today, hes been too good for too long and it was really upsetting to hear him jeered.

As an aside, was that Borman who got turned away at Joes?

No worries, with the banning of the 75 Mile Bastard banner, the war on supporters continues. Soon you will be replaced with soccer moms, and soon TFC will average 8,000 fans a game. That's exactly what they want, a money losing proposal!

Roogsy
05-29-2011, 12:52 AM
^ What? What the hell is going on down there???

TFCRegina
05-29-2011, 12:54 AM
^ What? What the hell is going on down there???

They banned Jay's banner because the word Bastard is all of a sudden offensive. Nevermind the fact that it's been admitted for at least 2, possibly 3 years without any concerns.

It's a fucking war on Supporters. It's bullshit. I don't know if they have their heads screwed on too loose or too tight but TFC seems to want to drive out the only reason casual fans really come out to these games for (supporters groups) any more.

Roogsy
05-29-2011, 12:56 AM
:picard:


As if they don't have enough on their plate, but I think the 75 Mile Bastards should raise this with the executive and get an answer from TFC on this BS.

TFCRegina
05-29-2011, 01:05 AM
:picard:


As if they don't have enough on their plate, but I think the 75 Mile Bastards should raise this with the executive and get an answer from TFC on this BS.

I believe Jay has talked to them about it. Doesn't make me any less inflamed.

We give an inch on this, we give an inch elsewhere later, we start giving away feet at a time.

Soon it'll be Soccer Mom FC.

Roogsy
05-29-2011, 01:06 AM
Boy is this team headed in the wrong direction. In so many areas.

profit89
05-29-2011, 01:11 AM
We'll be back guys. We will get to the mountain top.

Transfer window will be busy times.

TFCRegina
05-29-2011, 01:11 AM
We'll be back guys. We will get to the mountain top.

Transfer window will be busy times.

Transfer window won't stop the ban on the Bastard banner.

DichioTFC
05-29-2011, 01:14 AM
^ Just with regards to the 75 Mile B******s censorship, Boris and Phil have been of tremendous help to TFCvBuffalo and the 75MB in this situation. This isn't the first time the FO has tried to censor the banner, but it is the first time they've gotten away with it.

Hopefully it will be resolved amicably soon, but until then, the 75MB members are pretty much doing our own mini / individual protests (no TFC logo, no scarfs, etc.).

Anyhoo, :topic:

TFCRegina
05-29-2011, 01:15 AM
^ Just with regards to the 75 Mile B******s censorship, Boris and Phil have been of tremendous help to TFCvBuffalo and the 75MB in this situation. This isn't the first time the FO has tried to censor the banner, but it is the first time they've gotten away with it.

Hopefully it will be resolved amicably soon, but until then, the 75MB members are pretty much doing our own mini / individual protests (no TFC logo, no scarfs, etc.).

Anyhoo, :topic:

lol well played.

TFC_Toon
05-29-2011, 01:26 AM
However, I can understand if some supporters are losing their patience based on some of the curious lineup decisions as of late..

First of all I would like to say how much I enjoy your posts, honest, incisive, thank you.

Also he has run Martina's confidence into the ground...
There is a lot more wrong with this squad.... disappointed....yeah.

DichioTFC
05-29-2011, 01:27 AM
^ It seemed to me like Martina was the spark plug to start the second half. Putting him up top with Santos and Soolsma, and near Plata, made for an exciting 10'

Azerban
05-29-2011, 02:07 AM
come on guys we're only one win out of the playodsjfadsf;ajknsdf;

Jeff s
05-29-2011, 02:14 AM
Both Klinsmann and Winter said not to expect anything from this year. The season was written off before any of the players were signed. AND EVERYONE WAS OK WITH IT. Why, now that its actually happening, are people so livid? A couple months ago hearing that we have a new coach, implementing a new system, and giving our academy system a complete revamp, everyone was pumped up, and took it as the best news coming out of MLSE since the announcement of the club. Now nobody is happy with the decision that was made, and is back with all the ‘MLSE is the devil’ talk.

If Winter gets sacked, or leaves, I put all the blame on the fans of the club. We keep telling MLSE what we want, they listen and give us what we ask for. And each and every time, it was either the wrong move, or we instantly curl our nose up and say 'oh i don't want this anymore'.

We cried out for DeGuzman. Turns out MLS level players around him kill his effectiveness.

We asked for Ali Gerba. When he got here, nobody would shut up about how out of shape he was.

We wanted an attractive, attacking style of football. Turns out the physicality of MLS kills that.

It's only a matter of time before everyone completely turns on Winter, gets him run out of town, and then once again blame MLSE for fucking up. Maybe the bigger problem is the fans not knowing what the hell they want, and not letting the management do their thing. So my opinion on this issue. Don’t expect anything from this year. Hell, even next year will probably be a write-off. If we let Winter work with the team to get them setup with his system, and get the academy players learning it, then we will be a great team in a year or two.

If we keep complaining like we are now, the front office will be scared and end up scrapping Winter, and we will be in the same boat as every season. A brand new coach, doing yet another team rebuild.

There is no rebuild. We are still building from year one. We're getting the exact same results since year one.

Not sure who "everyone" is, but sure isn't me. I'm not accepting this season to be a write off because it's a "rebuild year". Like its been mentioned million times before, why are new teams getting instant success while we continue to just flat out suck? There in even more complex situation than us, yet they play better.

Look at this week in general. We were nearly knocked out of the Canada cup by an expansion team at home (weather saved us), few days later we suffer out biggest defeat, at home, to a 2 year old team. Sounds like we're making progress. I also guess getting rid of kids like Aleman is a good way to build for the future as well...

Don't know about others, I never saw a problem with DeGuz to begin with.

AS for Gerba, it wasn't his fault. When he joined, he was the lone striker forced to chase down the ball, which is far from his style of play.

I'll give Winter another year, yea. But theres no denying that he's at fault for some of these games as well. Its WINTER that continues to play players like Gargan, Harden and Peterson. I don't know about his tactic management, but his player selection scares the shit out of me.

jazzy
05-29-2011, 04:02 AM
Both Klinsmann and Winter said not to expect anything from this year. The season was written off before any of the players were signed. AND EVERYONE WAS OK WITH IT. Why, now that its actually happening, are people so livid? A couple months ago hearing that we have a new coach, implementing a new system, and giving our academy system a complete revamp, everyone was pumped up, and took it as the best news coming out of MLSE since the announcement of the club. Now nobody is happy with the decision that was made, and is back with all the ‘MLSE is the devil’ talk.

If Winter gets sacked, or leaves, I put all the blame on the fans of the club. We keep telling MLSE what we want, they listen and give us what we ask for. And each and every time, it was either the wrong move, or we instantly curl our nose up and say 'oh i don't want this anymore'.

We cried out for DeGuzman. Turns out MLS level players around him kill his effectiveness.

We asked for Ali Gerba. When he got here, nobody would shut up about how out of shape he was.

We wanted an attractive, attacking style of football. Turns out the physicality of MLS kills that.

It's only a matter of time before everyone completely turns on Winter, gets him run out of town, and then once again blame MLSE for fucking up. Maybe the bigger problem is the fans not knowing what the hell they want, and not letting the management do their thing. So my opinion on this issue. Don’t expect anything from this year. Hell, even next year will probably be a write-off. If we let Winter work with the team to get them setup with his system, and get the academy players learning it, then we will be a great team in a year or two.

If we keep complaining like we are now, the front office will be scared and end up scrapping Winter, and we will be in the same boat as every season. A brand new coach, doing yet another team rebuild.

this is frustratingly bang on..........do I have to mention the leafs?........mgmt simply trys to by the complainers off with bandaids and long time goals can never be reached..on the otherhand...yes some of the younger players are learning the system, we still need I believe, JDG at $200,00 only and a game breaker.......'DeRo' ?...........shame that...a Hessli for example........btw we would not have been humiliated today....with a real leader on the field.....it WILL be a long season...it has to be.........

Stugatzo
05-29-2011, 04:04 AM
I've said it before...
We do not have the players to be attempting the 4-3-3 possession game.
Even Winter admits it, yet he still tries to play it.
Why not play to whatever strengths the team has positionally and wait until you feel you have the right players for a different style? Play 4-1-4-1 if need be, play 4-5-1 if need be, but use the players you have in positions that make sense.
We are coughing up the ball too often in the name of trying to keep possession and the other teams have figured out how to exploit it.
they know Frei won't take a long GK so they keep a couple guys up to pressure nervous defenders...and it works!
We also refuse to take set pieces seriously unless they are in the final third of the pitch again opting for short, quick, backwards free kicks that other teams are pouncing on.
I'm NOT ready to abandon the team or the cause just yet, but certainly understand the feelings of those who have.
My hope is that today's result is the ass-kicking we needed to send the wake up call to Winter that trying to force players to fit a style they aren't used to playing in is not the way to go.
Then again...

jazzy
05-29-2011, 04:08 AM
Nobody has dominated the Whitecaps. They have been competitive in most games.

ya tied NY yesterday...albeit a weakend side

Antonio Gramsci
05-29-2011, 05:40 AM
Who else feels they would have enjoyed the game more if their keeper had scored when Frei misjudged that kick? I think it would have shifted the mood from painful to absurd, lightened things up a bit.

Hitcho
05-29-2011, 05:56 AM
I've said it before...
We do not have the players to be attempting the 4-3-3 possession game.
Even Winter admits it, yet he still tries to play it.
Why not play to whatever strengths the team has positionally and wait until you feel you have the right players for a different style?

There's a lot of sense in this. Only answer I can think of is A) Winter is more stubborn than Wenger or B) his plan is to implenment the system, see who can manage it so he knows who to keep and who to move on and just accept this season as a write off/bedding in period.

However, as I posted above, I don't think the type of players that will do well in a possession-based, attackiong 4-3-3 will be found in MLS. So will it get better form here? I hope so, but wouldn't put my mortgage on it.

Blowing Bubbles
05-29-2011, 05:58 AM
To all those freaking out and abandoning the team, I have to ask, what did you expect? Yes, today was a disgrace. But if you thought this season was going to be a cakewalk then you were sniffing glue. A good team isn't built in a few months. We should be happy if we're seeing some consistent signs of progress by mid-season. Playoffs? Very unlikely, and they always have been.

Give your head a shake, people. Take a nap. Calm down. It's going to be okay.

Philly, Seattle, Portland, and NYRB 2010 all point and laugh at you.

harrietgate
05-29-2011, 06:12 AM
I just looked through this entire thread (didn't have the heart to read it all, just used ctrl + f) for mentions of Santos. He gets two mentions - the first is somebody mentioning how both his goals were offside (nonsense - the first goal there is no replay to prove that, the second the pass clearly comes from letoux), and then somebody mentions how it's nice that he came to the south stands after the game.

Not a single person said it's good to see that we have a pretty consistent goalscoring striker for the first time in our history (if you want to call DeRo a midfielder)! Countless people said everyone on this team is useless except Eckersley and Frei! Of course this game was terrible, but let's give some credit where credit is due!



If he is playing, there is always a decent chance of him scoring.

Can't understand for the life of me why his efforts are somehow overlooked/dismissed.

Cashcleaner
05-29-2011, 06:37 AM
Philly, Seattle, Portland, and NYRB 2010 all point and laugh at you.

THIS.

Alright, gather 'round everyone! I don't want to have to repeat the same things over and over again, but it's the only way some of you will learn.

The term "rebuilding" means jack shit in MLS.

We're not talking about pro hockey, basketball, or baseball. Yes, in those respective leagues "rebuilding" will often take a club out of the playoff races and there is a certain amount of hardship the fans of those clubs have learned to accept as teams separate the wheat from the chaff and bring in fresh blood to supplement the roster. We're not talking about those leagues though, we're talking about MLS.

The parity in this league is unlike anything else in North American pro sports, and there are so many instances of clubs which have rebuilt themselves from the ground up and still made the playoffs all in one season. That's not to mention the clubs that ended the season in the basement one year and make it to the top four teams the next. Heck, let's not forget that we just lost a game and broke the record for worst home defeat at BMO Field to a club with only one season under its belt!

Want me to go one better? Vancouver in their inaugural season may be tied with us for Goals scored (13) but we have a whopping -10 goal differential compared to their -4!

"Rebuilding" is the worst excuse people can use for poor performances because so many other clubs in this league have rebuilt and still put up respectable results.

koryo
05-29-2011, 06:57 AM
They banned Jay's banner because the word Bastard is all of a sudden offensive. Nevermind the fact that it's been admitted for at least 2, possibly 3 years without any concerns.

It's a fucking war on Supporters. It's bullshit. I don't know if they have their heads screwed on too loose or too tight but TFC seems to want to drive out the only reason casual fans really come out to these games for (supporters groups) any more.

^^ Bang on Cash. Which begs the question: is MLSE unwilling or unable to achieve what is clearly not a one-off phenomenon. You couple their failure to-date with their increasingly jobsworth-like behaviour to organized support...

Perhaps the FO has decided that it's in their best interests to drive away the faction of their support who knows a thing or two about football, who will hold them accountable for their horrid running of the club. Who will challenge them for being the greedy eejits that they are. They're likely aiming for a baseline attendance of the sort of spectator who will consume a product (show up, buy shit, sit quietly stuffing their faces, doing as they're told, nice little obedient consumers), not watch football.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not so long ago this group told them to stop marketing TFC on the backs of supporters. If that's true then MLSE are throwing their toys out of the pram as well.

None of this will change until success on the pitch replaces shareholder dividends as the driving force behind the existence of this team. That will only change with a change in ownership.

JuliquE
05-29-2011, 06:58 AM
It is this dream that still keeps me around and forces me to keep the remaining tickets I have not given up. Everything else has been ruined for me and I am in the same boat as you are and have taken my spending down to almost zero on everything except the actual tickets, even though I would like to buy the new jerseys and kit my newborn son in everything TFC, I refuse to do so. Because I refuse to contribute to the MLSE belief that fans will continue buying and spending regardless of the product they put in front of us, regardless of the sport. But the last thing I will ever be able to do is give up my remaining tickets. There is a small, faint glimmer of hope that one day the soccer gods will bless us finally and get rid of the failing element within TFC.
This post and the one beneath it win the day.

I really feel for people like 117, but have to agree with BakaGaijin and Shakes; he needed somewhat serviceable BODIES to make up numbers, in time for the start of the season.. which was just around the corner, when he arrived.

Surely all this doom and gloom can't fully be taken seriously, until after, at least, one transfer window.

Baka also made a very interesting point, which no one can really say is an impossibility:


Everyone who bitches about why he goes with the same players all the time might not know the reason. Perhaps he's trying to evaluate them to see if he really wants to keep them or not.

** * **

Even if that's not the case, you still have to come back to the idea of allowing for, at least, the one transfer window and not judging Winter too harshly for the bodies he's brought in.

Keep in mind that we're likely still paying a part of Barrett's salary and, much as I'm routing for de Guzman, I don't know that he would have been Winter's first choice.

Winter was never going to be able to fill a whole roster with journeyman, to start the season.. so there are some he's brought in and others that remain, from the past regime.

Give it time, lads. I feel for you -- honest.. but I think it's a tad early to be throwing in the towel on THIS setup.

Beach_Red
05-29-2011, 07:27 AM
We'll be back guys. We will get to the mountain top.

Transfer window will be busy times.

What do you mean by "back?"

It's good to still see some optimism in this thread and belief that this team - that has never made the playoffs - will be successful soon.

Blixa
05-29-2011, 07:57 AM
You don't think perhaps the second season was a bit early to jump ship?

- Scott

Obviously not given what transpired during the three that followed the second one.

Pookie
05-29-2011, 08:33 AM
Certainly a 6-2 drubbing today and a failure to dominate the REAL expansion side in the Whitecaps these past couple of weeks doesn't tell a story of progress.

If not factual, you are entertaining.

Roogsy, did you or did you say that heading into the Vancouver leg of the series that your expectations were at least of a draw?

Wait, this is what you said:



That's it from me. I'm getting ready to watch the game and I'd like to see (and expect) taking at least a point in Vancouver.


Did TFC not play to a 1-1 draw in Vancouver, a site where they were beaten soundly 4-2 earlier in the season?

Given your expectations were (at least) of a draw and they delivered a draw, WTF is up with your NEW over-the-top statement of a "failure to dominate"? Are your expectations a moving target designed to suit your purpose whenever you see fit?

Which appears to be to shit on the team after every loss or move you don't like.

Respectfully, I gather you might have an opinion on how the team should be managed. Ultimately, you make some decent points now and then. They are lost completely in your desire to criticize every aspect of the club.

While there are aspects ripe for criticising, I believe we can all agree that Jurgen Klinsmann has a little bit of experience when it comes to being involved at all levels with football teams. In his opinion, this current Management team and the direction they are taking will result in the long term success of this franchise.

A 6-2 loss on May 28th, 2011 aside, I am prepared to put a little bit of faith in Klinsmann's recommendations vs blowing it up again.

Pookie
05-29-2011, 08:46 AM
No MLS, that's right, but some head coaching experience. NY also changed ownership.

But all this looking at other MLS teams seems pointless. So far MLSE have shown no interest at all in looking at the other teams in the league for very much.

Hans had some coaching experience. Without the benefit of hindsight (and Henry, Marquez and Angel as DPs), his resume would have some success along with some question marks:

- fired after 3 games at Panathinaikos
- quit 7 weeks into the season at Notts County

He would have been eaten up here after the first couple of losses.

A mechanic can tinker with a Chrysler and make it run better. Without new parts though, there is no way to turn that Chrysler into a BMW.

I like that we've thrown away some old parts in DeRo and others. I look forward to the transfer window and continuing to put new parts into this vehicle.

Beach_Red
05-29-2011, 08:50 AM
^ Yes, we're all looking forward to this transfer window. it'll be Winter's first ever, so he has a chance ro really make a splash and put his personal stamp on this team.

I wonder if Klinsmann was used like every other consultant; he made ten rwcommendations and they implemented five. I'd be really curious to see what kind of FO structure he recommended and if it included Anselmi as the top guy.

TFCwestcan
05-29-2011, 09:00 AM
I think Winter said it best five of the six goals were give aways, including the usually steady Frei, and Plata. I hate the shit happening with Nana it really sucks to have to play Harden and Gargan in this system.It was such an odd game, loved how TFC fought back but the keystone cops defense sunk the ship. Best let the game go from the memory...

Pookie
05-29-2011, 09:09 AM
I wonder if Klinsmann was used like every other consultant; he made ten rwcommendations and they implemented five. I'd be really curious to see what kind of FO structure he recommended and if it included Anselmi as the top guy.

That little tidbit is why I am optimistic.

Folks forget that MLSE isn't the ultimate "owner" of this team in the traditional sense of NA sports clubs. MLS is a single entity ownership. MLSE is a shareholder in the league.

The decision to use Klinsmann, in my opinion, was "suggested" to MLSE by the league. TFC was a cash cow for this revenue sharing league. The model franchise. Garber's visit prior to the MLS Cup highlights some disconnect between the league and how the club was being run.

Enter Klinsmann.

If Anselmi and co, opted not to follow the bulk of the recommendations, I think this puts the league, the ultimate owners, at odds with this owner-operator in MLSE. Advocation for change can't be far behind.

torontocelt
05-29-2011, 09:23 AM
You can see the talent of guys he has brought on board like Plata and Ecks.


The thing is though that Plata was 48th pick in the draft, we got very lucky with him, I cannot really credit Winter with that. Ecks wasn't identified by Winter, he was identified by Mariner so you cannot credit Winter with that either.

AL-MO
05-29-2011, 09:25 AM
I wasn't at the game, but I heard Philly put a touchdown (unconverted of course :) ) on the board against us.

Balls that is. I don't feel so bad for missing the game now.

Alixir
05-29-2011, 09:28 AM
Rebuilding is just an excuse sports teams use to justify the pathetic state their team is in.

Wull
05-29-2011, 09:32 AM
Anyone know why we were playing a midfielder at LB and a LB in midfield? How about Williams keeping his place after a poor showing midweek but Cann was missing? Attakora had two sub-par games, looked back to his best when he came on against DC but still can't displace the 3 stooges at the back? (Eckersley being our one competent defender yesterday) I'm far from calling for Winter's head but youra, nana, cann and eckersley need to be starting next weekend with tchani in front of them or we're going to get torn to shreds again.

Glenchen29
05-29-2011, 09:46 AM
Alles
Scheiße

JavierMartini
05-29-2011, 09:53 AM
I think it was the worse ever...?

Tbh I think the dcu shutout was worse last year.

Maltese Falcon
05-29-2011, 09:55 AM
I wasn't at the game, but I heard Philly put a touchdown (unconverted of course :) ) on the board against us.

Balls that is. I don't feel so bad for missing the game now.
Ya Ray Finkle shanked the PAT wide left...although he argues the laces were turned in

Pookie
05-29-2011, 09:57 AM
5-0 NYRB with a playoff spot on the line was the low point for me

All this stuff about the starting line up, that's fine to tinker. Again though, while you can make it run a little better, you can't turn a Chrysler into a BMW without new parts.

Maltese Falcon
05-29-2011, 10:02 AM
Its interesting to see Philly leading the east in their 2nd year, Seatle earning a playoff spot in their inaugural season, Portland having a winning record in the west and Vancouver having a team that battles...and after 5 years this is what were left with. I watched a half of the VC/NYRB game and even with a depleted RB lineup, that game resembled real football and was enjoyable to watch... for some reason our games rarely look professional...I've seen better mens league games

Redcoe15
05-29-2011, 10:03 AM
That was the worst game I've seen since the 5-0 spanking received from RBNY in New York in 2009. It's hard to have faith in Winter when he keeps sending out pylons like Harding and Gargan out like that. And just WTF is wrong with DeGuzman? He's brutal.

All that, plus the war the FO seems to have declared on the supporters, has me wanting MLSE to sell this team, ASAP.

:facepalm: :prrr:

torontocelt
05-29-2011, 10:04 AM
Both Klinsmann and Winter said not to expect anything from this year. The season was written off before any of the players were signed. AND EVERYONE WAS OK WITH IT. Why, now that its actually happening, are people so livid? A couple months ago hearing that we have a new coach, implementing a new system, and giving our academy system a complete revamp, everyone was pumped up, and took it as the best news coming out of MLSE since the announcement of the club. Now nobody is happy with the decision that was made, and is back with all the ‘MLSE is the devil’ talk.

If Winter gets sacked, or leaves, I put all the blame on the fans of the club. We keep telling MLSE what we want, they listen and give us what we ask for. And each and every time, it was either the wrong move, or we instantly curl our nose up and say 'oh i don't want this anymore'.

We cried out for DeGuzman. Turns out MLS level players around him kill his effectiveness.

We asked for Ali Gerba. When he got here, nobody would shut up about how out of shape he was.

We wanted an attractive, attacking style of football. Turns out the physicality of MLS kills that.

It's only a matter of time before everyone completely turns on Winter, gets him run out of town, and then once again blame MLSE for fucking up. Maybe the bigger problem is the fans not knowing what the hell they want, and not letting the management do their thing. So my opinion on this issue. Don’t expect anything from this year. Hell, even next year will probably be a write-off. If we let Winter work with the team to get them setup with his system, and get the academy players learning it, then we will be a great team in a year or two.

If we keep complaining like we are now, the front office will be scared and end up scrapping Winter, and we will be in the same boat as every season. A brand new coach, doing yet another team rebuild.

Winter said his goal for this season was the playoffs, he did not write off the season. Not 'everyone' would be happy to see another season go down the drain due to 'rebuilding', I certainly wasn't. DeGuzman is a con man, how he ever got DP money is crazy, he is a decent player, no more, no less, Realistically he should make around $200,000 per year, even that is me judging him on potential and not on his actual effort since he arrived at the club. Ali Gerba was a disgrace of a player, he was out of shape and could not run, if you cannot run then you really shouldn't be playing football unless you are a goal keeper. Winter will most likely get sacked due to results, not just the fans. His results so far are no where near good enough, he takes a lot of blame for them as he continues to try to play a system that he does not have the players for and he continuous to pick players who are a total liability. I mean seriously how many more looks does he have to have at gargan to realise he is badly out of his depth?

Winter for me is just as out of his depth as a manager as gargan is a player. I honestly think the system will ultimately be his downfall as it is way too leaky and exposes his players way too much which is hampering their overall ability to grow as players and as a team. Almost all of the players played with no heart yesterday, that is a big worry and alarm bells should be ringing for Winter. Normally when a team stops playing for a manager the writing is on the wall and for me the team gave up yesterday, not for the first time either this season. Having a system in place is great but any system has to be adaptable to players you have at your disposal and the quality of each individual opponent. Winter has shown that he refuses to stray from system that has major flaws in the hope that eventually the players are going to improve and able to implement it. The reality of the situation though is that a lot of these players will never be good enough technically to play the way he wants, a good manager identifies the strengths and weaknesses of his players and adapts accordingly, Winter has shown he is unwilling to do this and I feel it will cost him in the long run. Obviously his plan is long term and it will be the kids who are brought through down the line that will be able to play the system but that is a long way off and I have serious doubts Winter will be at the helm when and if that even happens.

Beach_Red
05-29-2011, 10:10 AM
5-0 NYRB with a playoff spot on the line was the low point for me

All this stuff about the starting line up, that's fine to tinker. Again though, while you can make it run a little better, you can't turn a Chrysler into a BMW without new parts.

It's sad we have a number of games to chose from in this category.

I think you may also want an automotive engineer in addition to a mechanic for such a big job. Winter needs help. More than Mariner and Earl Cochrane and Jim Brennan (wonder if the four of them get along, the old regime and the new?).

ManUtd4ever
05-29-2011, 10:32 AM
First of all I would like to say how much I enjoy your posts, honest, incisive, thank you.

Also he has run Martina's confidence into the ground...
There is a lot more wrong with this squad.... disappointed....yeah.

Thank you.

SoccMan
05-29-2011, 10:47 AM
JDG anyway we can just let him go, he is just terrible I would rather play without him, it seems that many of the goals scored against us seem to start from one of his mistakes.

Wildgreek
05-29-2011, 10:55 AM
I support Winter and what he is trying to do for the team.

But my anger is at the FO and ML$E. If they are giving us a product that is not top of the line, they should be charging us as much for tickets. They should also LOWER our ticket prices.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - LOWER PRICES