Why is MLSE Killing Fan Support

[prizby]

do they not care about making money anymore?

[Carefree]

They still believe Toronto is madly in love with this team and will pay anything to be part of the "action".

[prizby]

problem with marketing the team the same way for five years, people get bored of it

lack of creativity coming from MLSE

[denime]

Because they can,unfortunately for us

[Chevy]

do they not care about making money anymore?

A very general statement there. Not saying I disagree with you, but at least put forth some hypothesis supported by some evidence.

[prizby]

A very general statement there. Not saying I disagree with you, but at least put forth some hypothesis supported by some evidence.

continually putting games on GolTV has a short term return of hypothetically more tv revenue for TFC (at the cost of another MLSE property in GolTV)

but since so few people have GolTV and practically anyone who is not a hardcore football fan probably doesn't subscribe, MLSE is losing chances at showing its product to possible interest fans, fans that they could turn into possible ticket buyers

imagine a person who tunes into a game and then decides to go to a game, buy a jersey, and a scarf... then a year later he decides to buy a flex pack, then a few years later he becomes a season ticket holder

does the potential of creating this fan come from seeing a game on GolTV or from seeing a game on a more accessible non-subscription based television network like CBC?

if they actually thought about the long-term financial aspects, you would think they would make this more accessible to try to create a fan base that isn't entirely there anymore hence the lack of sellouts of late...the team is not getting the exposure it needs to grow by being only shown on subscription based televsiion

[ryan]

MLSE has made profits and the team is worth 4 times what they paid.

They couldn't give a fuck right now since they are in sell mode anyways.

[FluSH]

First of all, as the 12th man, I think we should be down there in Colorado supporting the team, so $3 a month for GOL TV is a drop in the bucket if you are supposed to be a supporter.

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.

[Parkdale]

ummm.... this thread was started during a match?

I'm sorry, but when the game is on, all the other shit should go into the background.

[tfcleeds]

^Part of it relates to the frustration that some people (who don't get GOLTv) couldn't even watch the match, as there was not even a reliable internet stream (not that I found anyway). I had to settle to listen to match on FAN 590 myself.

I think the OP started the thread out of frustration, but then again, there's not much you can do. Either you shell out the cash for GOLTv, MLS Live (or whatever its called) or risk missing a few matches.

[FluSH]

If other RPB's can't access GOL TV then my house is always open... or just head down to Joe's I'm sure they are playing it there. Watching Futbol is best as a group, like it used to be back in the days... at the pub for every away match... that's right. for every away match.

[Parkdale]

or risk missing a few matches.


... or just head down to Joe's I'm sure they are playing it there.


Yep, what he said.

I know that a trip to Joe's will probably cost more than the $5 a month or whatever it is to pay for GOL TV, but it's a certain way to catch the match.

Hell.... the game ended and then Joe flipped the Big Screens over to the Heat-Bulls series that was already into the 2nd period. Imagine that - a little game like TFC-COL taking the big screens away from a HUGE game like the Heat-Bulls series. Good things happen when you've got numbers behind you.

[Yeoman]

phew thank god this thread got made
i think the suggestion for bringing in new fans?
fucking dinosaur give aways
http://di1-4.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/28/56/f5/104051477-149x149-0-0_Dinosaur+T+Rex+Huge+4+Ft+Dinosaur+Blow+Up+Birthd ay.jpg
i know that i'd be more interested in TFC games, if they provided these for give aways to me

[Joe Kool]

...and I thought this thread was going to be about the security issue with the flags and drums when I opened it. Personally I don't have a big issue with the $3 per month for the GOL TV channel. I don't know what the TV stats are for the games in terms of viewers compared to historical numbers in the first few seasons but I bet it won't really grow any more than it has in terms of the odd person tuning in and getting hooked. I find bringing people down to games hooks people for sure and I try to do that regularly but I think the TV coverage won't bring in too many new fans so I don't think MLSE are really too worried. Just my opinion of course. And of course I would say any business are never against making money but you need to know the big picture and all the facts before you generalize. My work makes certain decisions that seems odd to the ground level folks but since I am in the upper management meetings I know why they happen and in the big picture it is better. The ground level people just don't see the numbers. I think it is the same here.

[Yeoman]

college kids can't afford $3
they'd rather spend it on booze

[canadian_bhoy]

The ratings were so bad on sportsnet, I guess they figured at least they could make money off the people that did watch.

I dont have gol tv an won't be getting it. Thanks Tfc for making it a pain in the ass to watch my club.

[Alixir]

Yep, what he said.

I know that a trip to Joe's will probably cost more than the $5 a month or whatever it is to pay for GOL TV, but it's a certain way to catch the match.

Hell.... the game ended and then Joe flipped the Big Screens over to the Heat-Bulls series that was already into the 2nd period. Imagine that - a little game like TFC-COL taking the big screens away from a HUGE game like the Heat-Bulls series. Good things happen when you've got numbers behind you.Not all TFC supporters that want to watch the game live in the GTA.

[ensco]

Because GolTV is way more important to MLSE, than TFC is.

The evening start times in the spring, that protect the GolTV La Liga and Bundesliga games at the expense of TFC, are the clearest evidence of this.

It's because they perceive the opportunity to create value in GolTV to be greater than that for TFC.

This is a four year old story, but you get the idea on what these things are worth when they work. Even if GolTV Canada were only worth 10% of what YES is worth...
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2958799

[rocktml]

I will tell you guys, after watching Philly play at home the other night and as well with portland we are no longer in top three in "fan support". Dont get me wrong sec. 112, 113 maybe half of 114 are great but the rest are just useless.

Meanwhile portland got there whole supports section up and jumping singing etc....Philly too I was suprised at the support they are getting really great stuff to see.

[Alixir]

I will tell you guys, after watching Philly play at home the other night and as well with portland we are no longer in top three in "fan support". Dont get me wrong sec. 112, 113 maybe half of 114 are great but the rest are just useless.

Meanwhile portland got there whole supports section up and jumping singing etc....Philly too I was suprised at the support they are getting really great stuff to see.I would be willing to venture we are not in the top 5 in fan support anymore.

[Red Rat]

In MLSE eyes, we are killing the support. We are too lazy to show up 2 hours before the game! plain and simple

[Parkdale]

Not all TFC supporters that want to watch the game live in the GTA.


then go to a local sports bar and watch it there.

[Whoop]

Not every local bar outside the GTA has GolTV.

[Laurignano]

There is a lot of things that may be affecting fan support but just talking about GolTV...Maybe for "US" (meaning certain supporters/season ticket holders) it doesn't bother certain people to pay $3 a month to watch Toronto FC play, but even when I think of when my family came to Canada they didn't even know what hockey was....had it not been on CBC every Saturday night then I doubt my dad would be a hockey fan today because at the time,there was no way he could afford tickets. I know this is an extreme comparison but the point I'm trying to get across is that it deprives people the CHANCE of watching TFC and potentially becoming a fan...we gotta think of every stakeholder involved in this situation not just us. I want as many people to have the chance to love this team as much as I do...

[TFC Cityboy]

In MLSE eyes, we are killing the support. We are too lazy to show up 2 hours before the game! plain and simple

If the beer prices were less of a complete scam, we'd be in there an hour before kick off. I was in the UK in March, at Manchester City.
In the pubs outside the ground, you'd pay around C$5 a pint, inside the ground you pay around C$7 and have a natural meeting point for friends to congregate at which none of the crowding issues at local pubs. Plus, when the teams are ready to come out you are right there so the ground is full.

TFC wants us in the stadium to gouge us, so they can go screw themselves, and the stadium will continue to be 40% full at kick off time.

[Yagbod]

phew thank god this thread got made
i think the suggestion for bringing in new fans?
fucking dinosaur give aways
http://di1-4.shoppingshadow.com/images/pi/28/56/f5/104051477-149x149-0-0_Dinosaur+T+Rex+Huge+4+Ft+Dinosaur+Blow+Up+Birthd ay.jpg
i know that i'd be more interested in TFC games, if they provided these for give aways to me

But then you would have to check your dinosaur in two hours before the match. Think of all the flairs and smoke bombs that could be hidden in that thing...

[JavierMartini]

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.

Blackouts? Goltv is an essential blackout. Maybe the stadium would sell out if the tickets weren't crazy oveRpriced.Fact I have watched bpl ,ligue 1 matches for less then hAlf of a match at the joke Of a stadium that is known as bmo. The only chance for future sucess hinges on the sale of the club to a smart, savy owner with deep pockets.

[Suds]

If the beer prices were less of a complete scam, we'd be in there an hour before kick off. I was in the UK in March, at Manchester City.
In the pubs outside the ground, you'd pay around C$5 a pint, inside the ground you pay around C$7 and have a natural meeting point for friends to congregate at which none of the crowding issues at local pubs. Plus, when the teams are ready to come out you are right there so the ground is full.

TFC wants us in the stadium to gouge us, so they can go screw themselves, and the stadium will continue to be 40% full at kick off time.

Hmmm ... marketing idea?? Discounted prices in the beer garden Sponsored by Whoever from when the gates open to 30 mins prior to kick-off.

Nah, that would make too much sense. :(

[Azerban]

now that they have a couple hours of supporters footage to repeat in commercials, they no longer need us

we don't spend enough money in the stadium, because we don't doublefist larges all game, and all the security they've had to add is expensive

that's essentially the reason, in my mind; the second we started losing them a penny here and there, we became the enemies, and it's now 'good business' to replace us with soccer moms and daytrippers

[prizby]

First of all, as the 12th man, I think we should be down there in Colorado supporting the team, so $3 a month for GOL TV is a drop in the bucket if you are supposed to be a supporter.

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.

i have goltv, but should i have to order goltv for every place i am at whether i am at a hotel or at a friends place or at a cottage or anymore but my home?

[Red Rat]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj239/ratonrojo/Love.jpg

[ExiledRed]

First of all, as the 12th man, I think we should be down there in Colorado supporting the team, so $3 a month for GOL TV is a drop in the bucket if you are supposed to be a supporter.

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.

cmon Flush, really?

Eliminating the televison marketing is the answer to flagging sales?

how about reducing the ticket prices, signing a recognisable name or two and putting a watchable product on the field, before demanding jaded fans to pay extra to watch their awful displays on the road?

[Red Rat]

Well you see this apples and oranges for MLSE. On Tv the sky is bluer and in person the grass is greener... you just can't compare the two.
Now if you mean the team itself? well that is apples to oranges once again
cmon Flush, really?

Eliminating the televison marketing is the answer to flagging sales?

how about reducing the ticket prices, signing a recognisable name or two and putting a watchable product on the field, before demanding jaded fans to pay extra to watch their awful displays on the road?

[Alonso]

There is a lot of things that may be affecting fan support but just talking about GolTV...Maybe for "US" (meaning certain supporters/season ticket holders) it doesn't bother certain people to pay $3 a month to watch Toronto FC play, but even when I think of when my family came to Canada they didn't even know what hockey was....had it not been on CBC every Saturday night then I doubt my dad would be a hockey fan today because at the time,there was no way he could afford tickets. I know this is an extreme comparison but the point I'm trying to get across is that it deprives people the CHANCE of watching TFC and potentially becoming a fan...we gotta think of every stakeholder involved in this situation not just us. I want as many people to have the chance to love this team as much as I do...


This is exactly it. Their are hundreds of reasons why having TFC on specialty TV is a bad idea and actually burdens the fan base who just want to watch the match. When they happen to be at their parents house for dinner and want to watch the last half for example. Or up at the cottage, or in a town with few pubs and all tvs on the NHL playoffs. Or a student in residence who doesn't control the cable subscription.... I could go on endlessly here...

The Failte, which has been great to KW Co., doesn't even exlusively show away matches. Often we have live music going on and NHL Playoffs that take away from the viewing of the match.

MLSE need to focus on expanding the brand and getting the games out to the masses, and Goltv aint the way to do it.

[swan]

First of all, as the 12th man, I think we should be down there in Colorado supporting the team, so $3 a month for GOL TV is a drop in the bucket if you are supposed to be a supporter.

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.


come on now not everyone live in T.O this is just silly..

[swan]

TSN + GLO TV = bad

CBC = good

at least with the cbc i could watch the home games where i live..

if you want to grow your fan support/sport you put it on the channel that get to most people and thats cbc..

[FluSH]

I will tell you guys, after watching Philly play at home the other night and as well with portland we are no longer in top three in "fan support". Dont get me wrong sec. 112, 113 maybe half of 114 are great but the rest are just useless.

Meanwhile portland got there whole supports section up and jumping singing etc....Philly too I was suprised at the support they are getting really great stuff to see.

We are certainly no longer in the top 3 or 5 for fan support.

If we aren't willing to get together to watch away games as a group, or go on roadtrips, or head down to Joe's, or at the very least dish out $3 a month for GOL TV... then how can we expect to be in the top 3 and/or do the great things that other supporters are doing.

We worry too much about how TFC FO should be marketing this team nowadays, then actually supporting the team - which is the one aspect that we do have control over.

[FluSH]

i have goltv, but should i have to order goltv for every place i am at whether i am at a hotel or at a friends place or at a cottage or anymore but my home?

This all comes down to as how bad you want to watch the game. I can't begin to tell you the lengths I have gone to watch TFC.

[FluSH]

come on now not everyone live in T.O this is just silly..

I was beign a bit over the top with that statement... the point is that we should be out there. OUT THERE on roadtrips, OUT THERE in the stadium.

[prizby]

This all comes down to as how bad you want to watch the game. I can't begin to tell you the lengths I have gone to watch TFC.

i have skipped out on birthdays, social gatherings with friends, i have already forwarn my friends that i will skip out on a wedding for a TFC home game...oh and i have already got blasted hard by them


i honestly thought last night i'd have been able to find an online stream

[Red Rat]

prizby you should be ashamed of yourself!!!
how were you not able to find a working feed last night? I just watched a different game al together
and skip on a wedding?

[Blowing Bubbles]

First of all, as the 12th man, I think we should be down there in Colorado supporting the team, so $3 a month for GOL TV is a drop in the bucket if you are supposed to be a supporter.

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.

lol. So basically you want TFC to be your own little pet.

[Flipityflu]

i can't belive some of the comments in this thread. a very fair point is being made about television coverage and it becomes a chest pounding fingerpointer on who is a supporter.

[Carts]

First of all, as the 12th man, I think we should be down there in Colorado supporting the team, so $3 a month for GOL TV is a drop in the bucket if you are supposed to be a supporter.

Second, I hope they put in place blackouts on TV. If BMO field is not sold out... they shouldn't play it on TV. People should be out there in the stadium. I'm not really concerned with fairweather fans picking up the team... they will be the first to leave. and if we play with 1/2 an empty stadium the entire year so be it. We will still be chanting and signing.

In Canada, this strategy has proved to be a failure in the past...

The CFL Blackout Era saw TV numbers, attendance, and sponsorship drop by a large margin...

Not having the games on TV, simply killed interest - it did not inspire fans to buy tickets, even if that meant missing the game...

And that is in an 8-home game schedule, where every game is massively important. In a 18-home game schedule - the strategy would be even less effective...

This is also the case south of the border. Yes, the mighty NFL has found that blackouts rarely cause a 'ticket rush' from FANS close to the blackout cutoff. Instead, a corporate sponsor, or sometimes the TV network, will buy up the remaining tickets to ensure the game is on TV...

For something with as low appeal as MLS and TFC (in the large picture) corporate sponsors would not jump to buy up tickets, the ticket rush from fans has been found not to happen, and interest in the sport, team would simply drop - much the same way it did with the CFL...

What you would have with TV blackouts, is the exact same attendance at first - and less TV coverage (which in the future leads to lower attendance and therefor lower coverage and lower sponsorship money)...

Carts...

[Keyman]

MLSE may be trying to kill fan support, but we as a group cannot allow it to die. Our support for the team, for whoever puts on the red jersey, should never cease. The second we allow the volatility and drama to contaminate us, they've won. It's easy to be negative, the product on the field hasn't improved and the FO have routinely placed obstacles in front of us as a group, and thus hurt our support tremendously. But for 90 minutes on game day remember what drew you to this group - it was not only a love for football and a passion for TFC, but a belief that the culture which is created in a supporters group, in a supporters section, is something that cannot be replicated in the rest of your life, it's something special. You surround yourself with a group of people who become your friends, and who share an irrational and fervent faith in a football club that, year in and year out, probably won't win anything. People get infuriated when there is talk about the experience, that somehow there is this sacred thing that should remain through thick and thin, because they say it is the product on the field that is imperative and that everything else is inconsequential. But to me, it really is the experience that drew me to the group, and it's what continues to bring me to games and pull me through our team's struggles. I believe that the experience really is sacred, and that regardless of politics, we should ensure that this experience remains for years to come. No matter what. I'm not advocating for blind support, far from it; we as a group can be catalysts of change and should thus play an active role in instigating change that we feel is necessary. However these causes should unite, and not divide us, and should never overtake the thing that unites us, the Red Patch Boys - an undying love for TFC.

[Parkdale]

Not every local bar outside the GTA has GolTV.

oh really....? Then go to one that does!

If you're far enough away from the City that you can't find
a bar with GolTV, then you're going to have to work to find the game at all.
It wasn't that long a go that there were no guarantees at all about seeing a game.
You could be sitting on your couch, at home, and the away game might not be
carried on your cable provider. That was life, and something every fan of the Jays and Leafs
has had to deal with in the past. Granted that was before "convergence" and all.
Remember when every big sports bar had a satellite dish on the roof to get US stations?

Maybe times are different and I'm a luddite, but I remember when the recording
games on your VCR and watching it when you got home - and considering that a blessing!


I think there's TWO separate conversations happening in this thread.

topic #1
"MLSE should make all the games viewable on basic cable, on every provider, everywhere in Ontario etc"

topic #2
"MLSE is killing support etc"

While I understand the passion behind Topic#2...
Topic#1 is really LOW on the list of priorities (and comes off as kinda whiny)

[Parkdale]

and yeah, the talk of TV blackouts was kinda a tangent - and not one I'd agree with. Blackouts were a pre-internet concept, and should stay there.

The fact that MLSE OWNS GolTV and will use TFC to boost GolTV sales isn't something we can really fight about. It's not going to change.

[Yeoman]

i can't belive some of the comments in this thread. a very fair point is being made about television coverage and it becomes a chest pounding fingerpointer on who is a supporter.

yes yes but what about my trex give away idea?!?

[Kooper]

and yeah, the talk of TV blackouts was kinda a tangent - and not one I'd agree with. Blackouts were a pre-internet concept, and should stay there.

The fact that MLSE OWNS GolTV and will use TFC to boost GolTV sales isn't something we can really fight about. It's not going to change.

As mentioned before putting the game on Gol is essentialy a black out. My dad and other casual fans everywhere will never put in the effort to find an on line stream.

If MLSE wants to make money they need to give away more games on TV and use Gol TV to boost revenue at TFC. Even we subscribe to TFC they only get 36$ out of us + ads. If we go to one game they get 25$ + beer + a program + food. The economics of the situation is just stupid. The ad revenue on Gol TV can't be that much given the quality of ads they show.

[Pinkie]

yes yes but what about my trex give away idea?!?

i'd be down for a free trex.

[Yeoman]

i'd be down for a free trex.

yeah you'd be down for alot of free stuff
errrrrrrrrrr.................wait
.....................................huh?
mlse sucks!

[Parkdale]

If MLSE wants to make money they need to give away more games on TV and use Gol TV to boost revenue at TFC. Even we subscribe to TFC they only get 36$ out of us + ads. If we go to one game they get 25$ + beer + a program + food. The economics of the situation is just stupid. The ad revenue on Gol TV can't be that much given the quality of ads they show.

yes, they get more money out of us in the stadium than on our couches - that's a given - but I just don't believe that putting the games on CBC or TSN actually turns into more butts in the seats.

[J .]

Putting TFC solely on GOL is a big mistake. Casual fans wont tune in and I doubt there are many people, including serious supporters who go out and buy GOL.

I would say that in essence blacking them out from the general public does little to endear the club to casuals and doesnt make supporters happy.

[Alixir]

This all comes down to as how bad you want to watch the game. I can't begin to tell you the lengths I have gone to watch TFC.this is very true...I was living exclusively in Japan for the first 3 years of TFC's existence...and if it was not for the fact that I could watch the live stream on CBC's website at 5am I would never have had a chance to see TFC play. When I am in Canada I try to go to as many games as possible but when I am in Japan I am unable to watch very many games when 99% are GoLTV exclusive. Luckily I am going to be in Canada for the next month so I can still catch some games, but then its back home waking up at 5 am to try and find a shitty online stream...hopefully they can make the playoffs (dreaming) then I can catch at least one game when I come back in the fall for a couple months.

[algieb]

there is no wow factor at bmo anymore,shit owners treating fans the same way, we have mabybe a middle table team and keep getting same old line we are building for the future, that helps to take the passion out off tfc, the old saying you can fool some off the people

[sulfur]

Not every local bar outside the GTA has GolTV.
As an aside, here in Kingston, there's one bar that carries GolTV. One.

And they'll show any other sport before showing GolTV if they can help it.

[Kooper]

yes, they get more money out of us in the stadium than on our couches - that's a given - but I just don't believe that putting the games on CBC or TSN actually turns into more butts in the seats.

I disagree. Putting the games on Gol guanrantees that casual fans won't watch. TFC needs to be cultivating the fans who think:

"Hey TFC is on CBC. I'll watch that."

"Kick off is in 10 minutes and I don't feel like trying to get a ticket so I'll watch at home on TSN."

If they are casual fans then they can become more serious fans.

If they can never get beyond a casual fan because they have no chance to watch the game then they will never move on to getting tickets.

[Waggy]

Being on regular tv is incredibly important. I liked soccer before TFC, but I didn't pay any sort of attention to anything in North America. I heard once when the announcement happened that Toronto was getting an MLS franchise. Then I forgot about it until the first road game. I happened to catch it. Then the next one. By the time the first home game came around I was in the stands with tickets for most of the year. The games aren't on TV, I might have heard about it after the first goal, but I dunno if I'd ever have been more then a casual fan without the games on TV to remind me the sport was going on, and what I was missing.

It's a 2 hour long infomercial for tickets, merch, and general interest. Without ratings there's no reporters. How many beat writers do the Toronto Rock have? Without reporting people drift away from the sport, start to forget about it. The Rocks attendance numbers DIRECTLY reflect the accessibility of their games. When they were on TV, they sold out (winning helped too, but they needed to win to get on TV in the first place, as well as to sell out games. TFC didn't need to win to do either). When the Rock weren't on tv even in a championship season they couldn't sell out. Even the championship game itself. They only had a few select games on TSN this year for people who weren't interested enough to find it online or at some random bar (though their games that were shown were on TSN 2 instead of TSN). If people don't see games, they forget about the sport. There's too much else going on, even in the sports world. Casual fans, and people who potentially are serious TFC fans but aren't old enough or didn't realize it yet won't go looking for the games. Either MLSE shows them the team or they move on

[SilverSamurai]

I disagree. Putting the games on Gol guanrantees that casual fans won't watch. TFC needs to be cultivating the fans who think:

"Hey TFC is on CBC. I'll watch that."

"Kick off is in 10 minutes and I don't feel like trying to get a ticket so I'll watch at home on TSN."

If they are casual fans then they can become more serious fans.

If they can never get beyond a casual fan because they have no chance to watch the game then they will never move on to getting tickets.I'd have to agree with this.
THe casual fan likely won't have Gol (wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't know it exists), so its really a blackout like effect.

Having it on TSN is 1 thing, but when it's primarily on Gol, it's a big mistake IMO. The reality is that there are more casuals than hardcore.
Not saying no games should be on Gol, but the way it's been this season is a mistake I think...

[habstfc]

We are certainly no longer in the top 3 or 5 for fan support.

I just checked, we are 4th in attendance this year.
Seattle. L.A. and vancouver ahead of us.
We are averaging 19,500 so far this year.

[Waggy]

I just checked, we are 4th in attendance this year.
Seattle. L.A. and vancouver ahead of us.
We are averaging 19,500 so far this year.

19,500 tickets sold. Not butts in seats. And Philly has a smaller stadium. As does Portland.

[CretanBull]

I just checked, we are 4th in attendance this year.
Seattle. L.A. and vancouver ahead of us.
We are averaging 19,500 so far this year.

I don't think Flush was talking about attendance, but actual support ie looking at what other groups have done in other cities and comparing that to what's happening here (tifos, atmosphere etc.).

[Jeffro]

Why the fuck do we care about how mlse markets tfc? I could not care less how many new people watch games on tv. It has no effect on me attending games or catching them on tv. If I was okay with paying $50 bucks or more for cable I'd get goltv for an extra $3. In fact years ago when I had cable I had goltv and thoroughly enjoyed it before they showed tfc and mls games.

We are supporters. Not a marketing team.

[Azerban]

Why the fuck do we care about how mlse markets tfc? I could not care less how many new people watch games on tv. It has no effect on me attending games or catching them on tv. If I was okay with paying $50 bucks or more for cable I'd get goltv for an extra $3. In fact years ago when I had cable I had goltv and thoroughly enjoyed it before they showed tfc and mls games.

We are supporters. Not a marketing team.

i would like to this that it's not about having the games on gol, but the greater picture, including oppressive security personnel and ridiculous rules regarding bringing in supporters matériel, but i don't really know; i try not to read anybodys posts but my own

[Maltese Falcon]

They say every new franchise goes through a "honeymoon" phase for the first ~5 years of the teams existence. In this stage the fans are supportive more or less because of the fact that the team is new. Well its safe to say this honeymoon is nearly over, and this marriage between fans/ownership/team is already on incredibly rocky terms. As much as I dislike MLSE, if they gave us something to cheer for it would make all this hate go away quite quickly. I honestly think the fastest way they can do this is by making a big (legitimate) DP signing...at last give us a big name to hang our hats on and give us some hope that somebody can lead this team. It would put fans back into the seats for another year and hopefully change our outlook on ownership and their willingness to win. They certainly have the pocket change, and they can make the cap space, wonder what they are waiting for...from their perspective it is the only logical immediate answer. imo

[Jeffro]

i would like to this that it's not about having the games on gol, but the greater picture, including oppressive security personnel and ridiculous rules regarding bringing in supporters matériel, but i don't really know; i try not to read anybodys posts but my own

Personally I've never had a lot of trouble with security, though I know there have been some issues, but in my experience security at a lot of places enjoy wielding their authority, concerts, clubs, etc. This is not strictly an mlse issue, it's everywhere.

The issue with flags, banners, drums and such is bullshit, it was a knee-jerk reaction to the smoke and flares. I'm hoping it's temporary and have faith that our exec will be able to work it out with the FO.

I'm not saying we don't have issues or complaints, but I'm saying some people here only see problems and issues, and it gets tiring. I'm just here to support my club, and I'm not going to let FO politics ruin that for me.

[habstfc]

Philly has a smaller stadium. As does Portland.

Philly does have a smaller stadium but when I looked they were averaging 400 people below capacity and their attendance is down from last year, and they've had the league's 2 biggest draws play there already this year, N.Y. and L.A.

[Whoop]

Vancouver getting their games on TSN will do more for them than TFC putting their games on GolTV.

Like Carts said - and others - by putting TFC games on GolTV you're essentially limiting your market to just the TFC fan and not the soccer fan.

In order to generate interest you have to put it out there.

Hell, look at the NHL, a couple of years ago they essentially had to pay TV networks to put their product on TV. Now they get a $2 billion TV contract and their revenues have increased from around $500-600 million before the lockout to $3 billion this year alone.

TFC is taking the CFL approach to games and in a few years more people in Toronto will know who the Vancouver Whitecaps are than what TFC is. (Ok, it's a stretch... but you get my point.)

I'm lucky that I'm able to catch a TFC game if I have to... others aren't so lucky... they don't have to market to me, they have to market to those who might want to watch but have no clue what GolTV is but know what CBC, TSN, Sportsnet is.

[prizby]

and yeah, the talk of TV blackouts was kinda a tangent - and not one I'd agree with. Blackouts were a pre-internet concept, and should stay there.

The fact that MLSE OWNS GolTV and will use TFC to boost GolTV sales isn't something we can really fight about. It's not going to change.

yet if they actually hired a decent director of fan development, maybe they'd realize the errors in their ways



I just checked, we are 4th in attendance this year.
Seattle. L.A. and vancouver ahead of us.
We are averaging 19,500 so far this year.

frankly the more important number is % of capacity sold/filled/attended not the physical number

[lobo]

perhaps teachers will sell MLSE or TFC on its own, and the new owner can take a lesson from the RockyWirtz and John McDonough turnaround of the chicago black hawks

The Greatest Sports-Business Turnaround Ever (http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/18/chicago-blackhawks-hockey-business-sports-nhl.html)

blackout strategy trashed, all games on free TV, $$$ spent on players, new ticket pricing, embracing the fans

[prizby]

Why the fuck do we care about how mlse markets tfc? I could not care less how many new people watch games on tv. It has no effect on me attending games or catching them on tv. If I was okay with paying $50 bucks or more for cable I'd get goltv for an extra $3. In fact years ago when I had cable I had goltv and thoroughly enjoyed it before they showed tfc and mls games.

We are supporters. Not a marketing team.


Sports are full of emotions, due to the volume of emotions involved, consumers have a tendency to form close and long lasting bonds with their team; wither it is based on location, statistics, history, or family ties. Therefore the consumer becomes an important element for organizations, by understanding their wants and needs it will open up a wider range of opportunities



There are three important levels of fan behavior; social/ or casual fan, focused fan and the fanatic. The social or casual fan refers to the consumer that attends sports as an outing with friends or family, for purposes of relaxation and enjoyment of the game. The focused fan, similar to the social or casual fan, enjoys the game and relaxation of the atmosphere but also thrives off victory and has a sense of personal pride or connection with the team. Lastly, the fanatic refers to the highest level of fandom and these consumers are invested in the sport on a day to day basis. These fans are more aggressive and prefer higher levels of participation in a wider range of sports.

There are a lot less of the "fanatics" while there are a lot more of the casual fans...games on GOLTV really only drive towards selling the TFC product to the fanatics...TFC have already sold to the fanatics, they need to go through the fan transformation ladder and find ways to get other people to become fans who can work their way up the ladder to the fanatic level...the "ensnared" fan

BTW, the arguement that fans should go bars, someone elses place, or out in general to watch a sporting event does not hold up with research. In the Sports Business Journal, it was found that 80-85% of fans whether avid or casual (depending on the sport) would prefer to watch at home

[kodiakTFC]

Vancouver getting their games on TSN will do more for them than TFC putting their games on GolTV.

Like Carts said - and others - by putting TFC games on GolTV you're essentially limiting your market to just the TFC fan and not the soccer fan.

In order to generate interest you have to put it out there.

Hell, look at the NHL, a couple of years ago they essentially had to pay TV networks to put their product on TV. Now they get a $2 billion TV contract and their revenues have increased from around $500-600 million before the lockout to $3 billion this year alone.

TFC is taking the CFL approach to games and in a few years more people in Toronto will know who the Vancouver Whitecaps are than what TFC is. (Ok, it's a stretch... but you get my point.)

I'm lucky that I'm able to catch a TFC game if I have to... others aren't so lucky... they don't have to market to me, they have to market to those who might want to watch but have no clue what GolTV is but know what CBC, TSN, Sportsnet is.

You're misinformed. TFC and Vancouver both have games on TSN/TSN2 nationally. Vancouver's regional games are on RSN while TFC's are on GolTV. I agree about being on GolTV being terrible but we do have many games on TSN.

[ensco]

Why the fuck do we care about how mlse markets tfc? I could not care less how many new people watch games on tv. It has no effect on me attending games or catching them on tv. If I was okay with paying $50 bucks or more for cable I'd get goltv for an extra $3. In fact years ago when I had cable I had goltv and thoroughly enjoyed it before they showed tfc and mls games.

We are supporters. Not a marketing team.

Did you enjoy those night games in April and early May? (Maybe you did, what do I know, I assume nobody did....)

That was a decision driven by marketing.

[Kooper]

Why the fuck do we care about how mlse markets tfc? I could not care less how many new people watch games on tv. It has no effect on me attending games or catching them on tv. If I was okay with paying $50 bucks or more for cable I'd get goltv for an extra $3. In fact years ago when I had cable I had goltv and thoroughly enjoyed it before they showed tfc and mls games.

We are supporters. Not a marketing team.

You are going to care when the south east corner and 127 are mostly full but the rest of the stadium is empty. No matter how hard the Dallas and Columbus supporters groups try the stadium looks and sounds like a library with all the empty seats.

As loud as we think we are in the south end if the rest of the statdim doesn't take part the sound doesn't carry very far across the ground or on TV.

[sulfur]

You're misinformed. TFC and Vancouver both have games on TSN/TSN2 nationally. Vancouver's regional games are on RSN while TFC's are on GolTV. I agree about being on GolTV being terrible but we do have many games on TSN.
There were 2-3 TFC games on TSN to start the season. There's been a run (ongoing) of ~10 TFC games in a row on GolTV.

Sportsnet is at least a national network that comes in the same package as TSN for most people. A number of those Vancouver games have been available on all four Sportsnet channels. None of them have been blacked out anywhere in Canada (ala NHL hockey).

GolTV isn't in any package that you don't have to go out of your way to get.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

TSN + GLO TV = bad

CBC = good

at least with the cbc i could watch the home games where i live..

if you want to grow your fan support/sport you put it on the channel that get to most people and thats cbc..

as discussed in other threads CBC would never prioritize MLS games as it doesnt pull in as many viewers as somethings (ie Show jumping etc). As a result why send it to CBC?

Id have preferred it on CBC too a la soccer night in Canada.

[Section 110]

I've had GolTV since it first arrived, to get the La Liga games... if GolTV were solely a TFC channel it would piss me off, in the same way that MLSE put Leafs games on Leafs TV. The channel isn't worth having if all that's shown is Leaf-related nonsense. But GolTV shows La Liga and Bundesliga so the only disadvantage to having it as that, after catching Real Madrid or Barcelona or Villareal, Major League Soccer is almost unwatchable.

It's $3. That won't even buy you a beer at Joe's. Obviously the marketing dept. decided that it was worth moving the games to GolTV. Of course, they don't seem to be too worried about retention; they jacked prices last year without improving the product and lost fans that they won't get back... of course it's conceivable that they've made more $ than they ever thought they would.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'd have been fine with it on CBC if it was given priority. I'd have been fine with it on Sportsnet, if they were willing to up the production values to something more competent than hijacking a blurry, muddy standard def feed.

Then again, I get Gol TV, so it's not really an issue for me. Making sure the team is marketed effectively isn't my concern.

- Scott

[Ossington Mental Youth]

this is very true...I was living exclusively in Japan for the first 3 years of TFC's existence...and if it was not for the fact that I could watch the live stream on CBC's website at 5am I would never have had a chance to see TFC play. When I am in Canada I try to go to as many games as possible but when I am in Japan I am unable to watch very many games when 99% are GoLTV exclusive. Luckily I am going to be in Canada for the next month so I can still catch some games, but then its back home waking up at 5 am to try and find a shitty online stream...hopefully they can make the playoffs (dreaming) then I can catch at least one game when I come back in the fall for a couple months.

i watched all my games on the MLS website, paid 40 or whatever it was for it, when i was in Korea. Better picture quality too.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Then again, I get Gol TV, so it's not really an issue for me. Making sure the team is marketed effectively isn't my concern.

- Scott

yeah pretty much.

Its a stretch to say support is dying for the team.
People are definitely pissed, they have a right to be, but support isnt dying off.

People say 19k tickets have been sold but id bet that the majority of games prob average 18k except when we played DC and Houston due to the foul weather.

Over all theres a ton of better ways to show them on TV but guess what, we're stuck with Goltv and i doubt its gonna change anytime soon. We may see it change next year if one of the tv stations packages the MLS in a better manner but it sure as shit isnt going to change for 2011.

As someone else mentioned people have a ton of options, go to a bar, watch at home, watch online (legally or otherwise), listen to the radio.

I can remember when people were screaming for a TFC station, youve essentially got it now and people are unhappy.

[Parkdale]

BTW, the arguement that fans should go bars, someone elses place, or out in general to watch a sporting event does not hold up with research. In the Sports Business Journal, it was found that 80-85% of fans whether avid or casual (depending on the sport) would prefer to watch at home




didn't you already post that you DO have GolTV in your home?

[ManUtd4ever]

I don't agree with MLSE's strategy regarding the number of exclusive GolTV broadcasts over the course of the season thus far. That being said, I'm not so sure that Vancouver will be gaining significant additional television exposure compared to TFC, because the Canadian television audience is still very much in tune with the NHL playoffs.

The overwhelming majority of GolTV broadcasts were scheduled to take place during the first half of the schedule. Once the Stanley Cup Finals are finished, almost all TFC matches during the second half of the schedule are to be broadcasted on TSN, when the Canadian television audience will be more likely to tune in to soccer.

My main concern is the lack of HD broadcasts on GolTV, which is a situation that will hopefully be rectified in the near future.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Why the fuck do we care about how mlse markets tfc? I could not care less how many new people watch games on tv. It has no effect on me attending games or catching them on tv. If I was okay with paying $50 bucks or more for cable I'd get goltv for an extra $3. In fact years ago when I had cable I had goltv and thoroughly enjoyed it before they showed tfc and mls games.

We are supporters. Not a marketing team.

I share your frustration Jeffro. It feels like I'm saying this to myself too often:

bVhcB9ucmdg

Just substitute "Doctor" for "Supporter"

[Alixir]

i watched all my games on the MLS website, paid 40 or whatever it was for it, when i was in Korea. Better picture quality too.odd I tried that but was unable to because every time I tried to subscribe to the service I would get a message saying I lived outside the broadcast region.

[Shakes McQueen]

odd I tried that but was unable to because every time I tried to subscribe to the service I would get a message saying I lived outside the broadcast region.

Did you try to subscribe from inside Canada, or abroad somewhere?

They might black it out to IP addresses coming from inside Canada, but not internationally. It would make sense - teams don't want the league's own online service cannabalizing their TV ratings.

It isn't consumer friendly, but it's pretty common practice in North American sports.

- Scott

[Alixir]

Did you try to subscribe from inside Canada, or abroad somewhere?

They might black it out to IP addresses coming from inside Canada, but not internationally. It would make sense - teams don't want the league's own online service cannabalizing their TV ratings.

It isn't consumer friendly, but it's pretty common practice in North American sports.

- ScottThis happens when I am in Japan. At least for the first couple years of TFC's existence. I could could mask my IP but the MLS site also would not let me use a Japanese credit card as there was no "Japan" in the country selection. So I could watch on the CBCsports feed...but again I had to use an IP mask for that. Next best thing was myp2p but the quality was always shit.

[Nodoubtguy]

As loud as we think we are in the south end if the rest of the statdim doesn't take part the sound doesn't carry very far across the ground or on TV.

I go to the game to support my team, not to make noise for the TV viewers or for others in the stadium.

[Whoop]

I don't why people are arguing that accessibility is a bad thing?

The more accessible your product is the more support your product gets which is a good thing.

Football has always gotten support in Toronto but back in the 80s you had to resort to listen to broadcasts over the radio, watching weekly highlights on TSN on Saturday morning or some ethnic TV station. I'm sure many of you remember those days. The only time you get to see a lot of football was during a World Cup or a European championship. Good luck trying to watch an EPL match or a Serie A match....

But as there was more and more accessibility through the 90s and turn of the century the popularity of the sport mushroomed here in Canada. Every World Cup game available on TV? On pretty much basic cable? Every European Cup game available to the public? CL matches? Crazy....

I'm talking about the bigger picture not solely just TFC. But saying that TFC should be more accessible to the general population I'm a marketer, not a supporter.

Does putting games on GolTV kill support? Yes/no. It just stunts it's growth. And if the product on the field doesn't get better than as those lose interest, there aren't others to replace those that are lost.

[Parkdale]

I don't why people are arguing that accessibility is a bad thing?


I'm not trying to argue that point - I'm arguing the original tone of the thread.


MSLE sucks and are killing support
okay... got a specific reason?

because they are fucking up the broadcasting by having it on GolTV
well sadly, that's just how it is. Guess you'll have to get Gol TV or go somewhere that does.

Well I have GolTV at home, but what if I'm out somewhere?
Well then it's kinda up to you to be somewhere that has the game

but MLSE is killing support by NOT having the games on CBC or TSN
again, sadly, that's just how it is.

[Nodoubtguy]

I'm sure MLSE know they make more money by having a small group of people purchase GOL then having a larger audience possibly get interested and go to a game/buy a jersey/ect

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This happens when I am in Japan. At least for the first couple years of TFC's existence. I could could mask my IP but the MLS site also would not let me use a Japanese credit card as there was no "Japan" in the country selection. So I could watch on the CBCsports feed...but again I had to use an IP mask for that. Next best thing was myp2p but the quality was always shit.

ah that might be the prob, i was using my canadian card with a canadian address

[Whoop]

I'm sure MLSE know they make more money by having a small group of people purchase GOL then having a larger audience possibly get interested and go to a game/buy a jersey/ect

But is that good for TFC in general?

[Nodoubtguy]

But is that good for TFC in general?

I'm sure that's not their concern. They make money, that's their goal.....

[Whoop]

It should be a concern if they want to make more money in the future.

[Shakes McQueen]

I don't why people are arguing that accessibility is a bad thing?

The more accessible your product is the more support your product gets which is a good thing.

Football has always gotten support in Toronto but back in the 80s you had to resort to listen to broadcasts over the radio, watching weekly highlights on TSN on Saturday morning or some ethnic TV station. I'm sure many of you remember those days. The only time you get to see a lot of football was during a World Cup or a European championship. Good luck trying to watch an EPL match or a Serie A match....

But as there was more and more accessibility through the 90s and turn of the century the popularity of the sport mushroomed here in Canada. Every World Cup game available on TV? On pretty much basic cable? Every European Cup game available to the public? CL matches? Crazy....

I'm talking about the bigger picture not solely just TFC. But saying that TFC should be more accessible to the general population I'm a marketer, not a supporter.

Does putting games on GolTV kill support? Yes/no. It just stunts it's growth. And if the product on the field doesn't get better than as those lose interest, there aren't others to replace those that are lost.

I think accessibility is a good thing - what I said is that it's not my concern. I've got GolTV, and I can see every game. Whether MLSE is maximizing exposure of TFC to the public, is their concern, not mine.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Oh I agree. On one hand I don't care because I know I can watch the matches.

But on the other hand, it is a concern because in a roundabout way it ends up affecting things like atmosphere at the stadium and the "buzz" around the team.

[ExiledRed]

I think accessibility is a good thing - what I said is that it's not my concern.
- Scott

Im seeing a lot of this and I dont get it.

The team's success is not the concern of fans?

When this team began, we, as fans, made it our mission to spread the word and accumulate as many to the cause as possible. We did this by getting the merchandise and wearing it everywhere, we talked about it, we posted shot all over our social media outlets, we bought extra tickets so we could bring people to the game and try to convert them to regular fans.

We did this because we didnt want Toronto to be a marginally supporterd team, we wanted to be able to go to the event and feel like we were at a soccer match were the audience really, really cared about the result. We wanted to be able to turn on the tv when we couldnt make the game and be able to enjoy the match, complete with atmosphere. We didnt want it to be an embarrassment, and we didnt want to be accused of having shit suipport and we wanted to convince MLSE to spend even more money by proving we were a big market.

Now none of thats important, cause "I'm alright Jack, I have GolTV. Why dont you have GolTV? are you poor or something"

I could get GolTV, but I wont. I wont support any decision that I believe is detrimental to the sucess and reputation of this team and the sport in Toronto.

[jabbronies]

I don't have GolTV - never have and never will get it.

I know at least a dozen other soccer supporters - not RpBs - who don't have it either. None of us like Spanish league, so it's not worth it to chalk up yet another $3 to rogers cable for shit we don't need/watch.

there are other ways to watch TFC on the internet; at bars; etc.
The supporters will seek out those ways - the casuals won't.

MLSE doesn't realize that TFC are not as big a deal as they think they are outside of the 20,000 people who go to the stadium

[Whoop]

^^
LOL

Looks like Ian and I can agree on something.

[Parkdale]

there are other ways to watch TFC on the internet; at bars; etc.
The supporters will seek out those ways - the casuals won't.


that's kinda how I see it.

In the old days (thinking Leafs and Jays here) - if there was an away game that wasn't covered on the 30 channels we used to get, you'd have to go to a sports bar with a huge satellite dish on the roof and watch the local coverage from wherever they were playing.

that was life, and it wasn't that hard to do. Sure it would be better in your home, but you did what was needed.

and yes, I understand that it's a different issue than having all games on GolTV, but in the end - what we need to do to see a game is very similar: Pay for the channel or go somewhere that is already paying for it. Figuring that because we bough tickets to all the home games should entitle us to watch all the away games for free too just doesn't make sense. And yes, It would grow the team by having the games on free-TV, but that's just not how cable TV works these days. If you want something, you end up paying for it.

[ExiledRed]

that's kinda how I see it.

In the old days (thinking Leafs and Jays here) - if there was an away game that wasn't covered on the 30 channels we used to get, you'd have to go to a sports bar with a huge satellite dish on the roof and watch the local coverage from wherever they were playing.

that was life, and it wasn't that hard to do. Sure it would be better in your home, but you did what was needed.

and yes, I understand that it's a different issue than having all games on GolTV, but in the end - what we need to do to see a game is very similar: Pay for the channel or go somewhere that is already paying for it. Figuring that because we bough tickets to all the home games should entitle us to watch all the away games for free too just doesn't make sense. And yes, It would grow the team by having the games on free-TV, but that's just not how cable TV works these days. If you want something, you end up paying for it.

Basically, what your saying is this..

"If you cant get the game, these are the ways you have to get the game"

You're ignoring the context of the debate that this limited coverage is damaging fan generation and the importance of TFC in Canada's emerging 'soccer culture.' It does nothing to generate further support, publicise the team or nurture the sport in this market.

We all know that we could get the game by purchasing GolTV, and we all know that if we can seek out a bar that carries GolTV.....maybe.... if its quiet.... and theres nothing else on....just maybe you can convince the barman who's suddenly looking at you like you have elephantitis.. to put a tfc away game on.

[Parkdale]

Let's be honest here - the games have a limited TV coverage because there's a limited TV viewership. Ratings back that up.

I agree that TFC management should be doing things to promote the club (and the sport) whenever possible, but they aren't going to do that at the expense of revenue. they aren't going to gift the games to CBC or TSN if those networks aren't interested in them.

I can think of a ton of ways to grow the game that would have a much bigger effect than just having the games played on basic cable.

organize bus trips for junior soccer clubs from all across the province, and pickup the tab for them. Plus it will generate interest in the academy. that - would be the most beneficial thing they could do, mostly because those kids will get hooked then pester their parents for all things TFC.

[Whoop]

It's no big deal.

This is the evolution of sports on TV.

The future is pay per view. You want to watch TFC. It will cost you $9.99 for the game not this $3 to subscribe for the channel.

MLSE floated this idea with the Leafs and it got shot down big time... but it will come back to the top especially when the Leafs start doing well.

But hey... that's a good thing.

[Whoop]

Let's be honest here - the games have a limited TV coverage because there's a limited TV viewership. Ratings back that up.

I agree that TFC management should be doing things to promote the club (and the sport) whenever possible, but they aren't going to do that at the expense of revenue. they aren't going to gift the games to CBC or TSN if those networks aren't interested in them.

I can think of a ton of ways to grow the game that would have a much bigger effect than just having the games played on basic cable.

organize bus trips for junior soccer clubs from all across the province, and pickup the tab for them. Plus it will generate interest in the academy. that - would be the most beneficial thing they could do, mostly because those kids will get hooked then pester their parents for all things TFC.

The NHL basically did that and they got rewarded with a $2 billion TV contract.

And didn't John Molinaro say that CBC wanted to carry TFC games but TFC turned them down?

[Suds]

Let's be honest here - the games have a limited TV coverage because there's a limited TV viewership. Ratings back that up.

I agree that TFC management should be doing things to promote the club (and the sport) whenever possible, but they aren't going to do that at the expense of revenue. they aren't going to gift the games to CBC or TSN if those networks aren't interested in them.

I can think of a ton of ways to grow the game that would have a much bigger effect than just having the games played on basic cable.

organize bus trips for junior soccer clubs from all across the province, and pickup the tab for them. Plus it will generate interest in the academy. that - would be the most beneficial thing they could do, mostly because those kids will get hooked then pester their parents for all things TFC.


They are good ideas, however, I see the value in having the games as accessible as possible on TV. How did I learn to love hockey? Because as a kid I could find the games on TV. As immigrants my parents and older brother were not into hockey. I found it myself and learned to love the game. There are certain teams I like/follow more because they were the teams I got to see on TV as a kid. Same for college football. I'm a bit of a Sooners fan because they were on TV every weekend when I was a kid. Same with Notre Dame (but I have to be a fan because Ive been there and I'm half Irish :D)

I'm not comparing the audience and revenue of hockey and college football with TFC. My point is, I became a fan of teams and sports outside of Toronto because I had access to them on TV as a kid. TFC should be doing the same thing wherever possible - be it TV or internet.

[Whoop]

Exactly.

We're not the issue... we support the team.

It's the future generations that are at stake here.

That's how the CFL almost killed the league with their blackout policy from the '80s and how a proud team like the Chicago Blackhawks almost killed their fan base.

[tfcleeds]

They are good ideas, however, I see the value in having the games as accessible as possible on TV. How did I learn to love hockey? Because as a kid I could find the games on TV. As immigrants my parents and older brother were not into hockey. I found it myself and learned to love the game. There are certain teams I like/follow more because they were the teams I got to see on TV as a kid. Same for college football. I'm a bit of a Sooners fan because they were on TV every weekend when I was a kid. Same with Notre Dame (but I have to be a fan because Ive been there and I'm half Irish :D)



Hear hear! Lifelong Sooners fan for the same reason...and I've even gone so far as to go to Oklahoma to watch a game live. So it just goes to show you the value of having accessibility to grow your fanbase.

[swan]

I don't have GolTV - never have and never will get it.

I know at least a dozen other soccer supporters - not RpBs - who don't have it either. None of us like Spanish league, so it's not worth it to chalk up yet another $3 to rogers cable for shit we don't need/watch.

there are other ways to watch TFC on the internet; at bars; etc.
The supporters will seek out those ways - the casuals won't.

MLSE doesn't realize that TFC are not as big a deal as they think they are outside of the 20,000 people who go to the stadium

people gotta stop thinking locally for some people who aren't local can't just do these.. luckly i can afford to spend the money on mls live because if i couldn't afford it i wouldn't be able to watch games i couln't just go out and find the game as easly as you say..

[moralis]

FUCK MLSE-Support Local Football and our Canadian National team. Period.

[Shakes McQueen]

FUCK MLSE-Support Local Football and our Canadian National team. Period.

Thanks for your contribution.

- Scott

[Macksam]

I'm sure MLSE know they make more money by having a small group of people purchase GOL then having a larger audience possibly get interested and go to a game/buy a jersey/ect
I doubt that.

[ManUtd4ever]

Exactly.

We're not the issue... we support the team.

It's the future generations that are at stake here.

That's how the CFL almost killed the league with their blackout policy from the '80s and how a proud team like the Chicago Blackhawks almost killed their fan base.

Absolutely.

[trane]

You want this sport to be big it has to be readily and easily assessible to pontential supporters. That is the bottom line, it may end up growing despite this, but you are jsut making it harder.

You shold grow the sport to a point, were even if football does not becoem the biggerst sport in Toronto, it is a sport about which you can talk to your average Torontonian and he/she would have some interest and knowdlge because it has become such a fabric to the city. At one point it started becoming that, but you keep the product hidden for a couple of years, and it will regress.

I will say this, they may be hidding it at the moment, as they know, and once the team starts winning, they may put it back out there, in a sense to protect the brand.

[__wowza]

http://i.imm.io/5IjE.jpeg

i think those chaps are doing a bang-up job!!

[spark]

I agree that TFC management should be doing things to promote the club (and the sport) whenever possible, but they aren't going to do that at the expense of revenue. they aren't going to gift the games to CBC or TSN if those networks aren't interested in them.

I think someone else noted, and know from talking with the CBC fellows, CBC wanted those games and would have taken them.

With regards to 'the expense of revenue' - again as everyone knows the adage "short term solutions for long term problems". (It sounds like you're just pointing out their motives and not saying it's correct so this post is just my 2 cents!)

Someone linked that Forbes article and the one thing that jumped out was how the owner viewed putting the Hawks on cable tv essentially as a 3hr commercial.

Fans of combat sports would know all too well how boxing has tanked over the last decade or so because of PPV, now being surpassed by UFC which has really done so by making itself accessible and available on SpikeTV. Arguably boxing's biggest era was when you could watch it on ABC's Wide World of Sports.

It's surprising (well, not really) how no one at MLSE actually gets this but I guess we'll see if a vision for the club is forged in all areas and not just the 'brand of soccer'.

[rocker]

I'm less black and white on this issue for a few reasons:

1) There are games on nationwide TV this year (not right now, but later)
2) Casuals aren't going to watch every game. As long as a good portion of the games are on TV, then there's enough for the casuals to come across the league and check it out (the TSN schedule is probably enough)
3) Most casuals who like soccer but watch EPL or other Euro leagues probably won't be enamoured by the quality of the MLS game as it stands right now. So on one hand, you're creating awareness, but on the other you're creating awareness that MLS isn't THAT great. If the product was top notch soccer it'd be different.

I think it would be shitty if all games were blacked out or all on Gol TV, since casuals would almost never come across the games. But I don't think it's the end of the world situation where we're going to lose the next generation of fans because a certain percentage of games are not on regular TV. (I consider TSN regular TV since just about everybody has it).

Just a few moderate observations....

[Beach_Red]

^ It's more than just the games, though, it's also the ads. If CBC had the games they'd probably put ads on during the hockey playoffs.

[DangerRed]

FUCK MLSE-Support Local Football and our Canadian National team. Period.

LUUUUUULZ!!!1!1!!! You so hardcore. I wish I was more like you. :rolleyes:

[Mexinese]

If your really pissed at MLSE like I am, by stealing our money, and giving us crap futbol, and not caring because they know they are going to almost sell out the stadium each game, It would only make sense to me for the whole south end to boycott a game or two....leave it completly empty... now thats a protest that MLSE could think about. They dont care if we are dissing them, or doing anything dis respectful towards them, they just know we will still keep coming back to watch more matches.. thats all they care

[Azerban]

LUUUUUULZ!!!1!1!!! You so hardcore. I wish I was more like you. :rolleyes:

oh don't worry

you're exactly like him

[DangerRed]

oh don't worry

you're exactly like him

Bahahaha. You go, girl!!

[Parkdale]

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/images/icons/icon4.gif


relax guys.

[Red Skies At Night]

so after reading through this thread (with many valid points made) I spoke with a TV media buyer (the people that buy ad time on tv). she told me that based on the ratings, TFC games are a 2nd or 3rd tier property for most stations (specialty soccer stations excepted).

apparently cbc thought that by putting games on bold they would attract a rabid TFC fanbase over to the channel, thus boosting their subscription levels, and... it never happened. if they go on regular cbc they would be subject to time delays, bumps during nhl, etc.

TSN and Sportsnet would like the extra programming, but once again to boost the demand for their newer channels (TSN2 and SP1) but would bump them around based on other programming availability that generates better ratings (and thus higher ad revenues).

she thinks mlse put most of them on goltv in order to show them live, boost their subscription numbers, and keep the 'inherent value of the property'. to constantly have the games bumped around by other stations to make way for such things as jr hockey undermines their value in the eyes of advertisers.

her ultimate point was that until TFC starts having on-field success, they won't generate bigger ratings and will remain a low-demand piece of programming. after all, ad revenues are the true determining factor in what we see on tv.

which makes the cynic in me think we will be having games on goltv for quite a while...

[Whoop]

I think someone else noted, and know from talking with the CBC fellows, CBC wanted those games and would have taken them.

With regards to 'the expense of revenue' - again as everyone knows the adage "short term solutions for long term problems". (It sounds like you're just pointing out their motives and not saying it's correct so this post is just my 2 cents!)

Someone linked that Forbes article and the one thing that jumped out was how the owner viewed putting the Hawks on cable tv essentially as a 3hr commercial.

Fans of combat sports would know all too well how boxing has tanked over the last decade or so because of PPV, now being surpassed by UFC which has really done so by making itself accessible and available on SpikeTV. Arguably boxing's biggest era was when you could watch it on ABC's Wide World of Sports.

It's surprising (well, not really) how no one at MLSE actually gets this but I guess we'll see if a vision for the club is forged in all areas and not just the 'brand of soccer'.

Bang on.

Boxing - aside from all the corruption and multiple alphabetical organizations - lost a whole generation of boxing fan with their PPV events. Sure it generated more revenue for pursues and such but at the expense of those who wanted to watch live events.

People talk about the glory days of boxing. The glory days was when it was on ABC Wide World of Sports with Howard Cosell.

[jloome]

Not every local bar outside the GTA has GolTV.

Really?!? Every bar in Edmonton does.

[DangerRed]

Red Skies At Night, you and your friend better stop making so much sense, or you'll start offending people on here -- particularly those that feel that everyone outside the hardcore fan base can be convinced to support and watch a terrible, consistently underperforming team.

In seriousness, of course everything your friend says makes complete sense. But it's hard to convince people of this.

Supporting a team just because they're your home team, no matter how terrible, may be fine for idiots like me, who have TFC season tickets (well, at least this year), but I really don't see how the casuals will get on board.

But, you know... support local football!

[scooter]

continually putting games on GolTV has a short term return of hypothetically more tv revenue for TFC (at the cost of another MLSE property in GolTV)

but since so few people have GolTV and practically anyone who is not a hardcore football fan probably doesn't subscribe, MLSE is losing chances at showing its product to possible interest fans, fans that they could turn into possible ticket buyers

imagine a person who tunes into a game and then decides to go to a game, buy a jersey, and a scarf... then a year later he decides to buy a flex pack, then a few years later he becomes a season ticket holder

does the potential of creating this fan come from seeing a game on GolTV or from seeing a game on a more accessible non-subscription based television network like CBC?

if they actually thought about the long-term financial aspects, you would think they would make this more accessible to try to create a fan base that isn't entirely there anymore hence the lack of sellouts of late...the team is not getting the exposure it needs to grow by being only shown on subscription based televsiion

if you are going to post this trite shite then please lets have some documentation to back up your hypothisis kind sir

[TFCRegina]

Really?!? Every bar in Edmonton does.

Some in Regina have it, some don't. The bigger difficulty is getting the cuntish waitresses to put it on. Usually if you talk to the manager or a male bartender they'll throw it on, but if it's a waitress good luck. They give you the classic Regina bitch-ness and say they don't carry it or that they are supposed to show golf over soccer.

[werewolf]

^ thats not what I heard about girls from Saskatchewan...maybe the "big-city" is different.

[TFCRegina]

^ thats not what I heard about girls from Saskatchewan...maybe the "big-city" is different.

I take back my anger. A nice lass at Trifons Kramer reserved us a TV.