Today's News,Friday,May,20

[denime]

Mornin'



Dobson on MLS: Strange days in Vancouver (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/05/19/vancouver_mls/)


Academy Parts Ways With Three (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/05/academy-parts-ways-three)


Whitecaps manager blew it (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/05/19/whitecaps-manager-blows-it)


SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshine-girl/2011/05/20/monica)

[Darlofletch]

so what exactly is this "letter of committment" for academy players all about. I presumes clubs everywhere try and lock up their young players in one way or another, but I guess i just don't really trust mlse all that much, and presume that it's all about money and a potential future transfer fee.

sad that we're just releasing players thoiugh, especially aleman, who looked to have a future as good as his name. I guess all that altruistic talk of developing the game in canada etc etc is just talk if we can't directly benefit.

[Fort York Redcoat]

And on the flip side, any Academy needs a commitment that a player will stay to earn the most for themselves and the club, in development and transfer fee. I doubt MLS academies think much of what they can get for players on the transfer market so look to tying up players to contribute more to our own league/club.

[CretanBull]

I don't want this thread to spiral off topic, but seeing academy players refusing to make committments to the club is exaclty what some of us (the ones accused of always being negative) predicted would happen. Maybe now some people will understand that we're not downers because we like to be, we're critical of the club because we see things like this as being the predictable outcome of the way the club treats its players. The academy players who aren't good enough to have other options will stick around because they have no choice, but our top prospects won't put up with it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Flipside: If one is interested they could follow the success of the 3 players leaving to possible euro prospects and compare that to the kids that have committed to our club and see who made a more sound decision in the coming seasons.

The Academy is just an extension of the club. If the people running it are not attracting/nuturing talent other people need to be added. This will happen sooner or later.

But one thing is for sure

Until our team wins everything in front of them some people will bitch about it. There's a balance between negative and positive.

[CretanBull]

Until our team wins everything in front of them some people will bitch about it. There's a balance between negative and positive.

That might be true of some of the negative people, but others (like myself) just want the club to act professionally, to stop lying, to honour their word and to start treating their players with respect. If we win everything but don't do those things I won't be happy. If we do those things and not win I'll be A LOT more happy. I can (and do - Leeds) support a losing team, I can stick with my club through the worst of times. Obviously winning is better than losing, but its not the basis or a condistion of my support. Winning won't make the problems go away, but I'm willing to bet that making the problems go away will make us a winner.

[Technorgasm]

TFC ACADEMY TONIGHT AT LAMPORT!???

. . . . now with NORB

. . . . . . absorb it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^^CB I know well enough you know what it is to support through the toughest times a club has to offer let's just remember everything coming out of the media is spun one way, then gets here, we talk about it, it's spun the OTHER way and there is an amount of truth in both. I don't mind hearing the reality behind the soundbytes we get served but let's please not ignore entirely potential for improvement in dealing with players and of play in general.

[Fort York Redcoat]

TFC ACADEMY TONIGHT AT LAMPORT!???

. . . . now with NORB

. . . . . . absorb it.

I have it for tomorrow v Windsor. Is this the make up game for last week?

[Beach_Red]

^^CB I know well enough you know what it is to support through the toughest times a club has to offer let's just remember everything coming out of the media is spun one way, then gets here, we talk about it, it's spun the OTHER way and there is an amount of truth in both. I don't mind hearing the reality behind the soundbytes we get served but let's please not ignore entirely potential for improvement in dealing with players and of play in general.

It seems a simple enough thing to do, though, and we shouldn't have to wait too long for the potential to be realized.

The criticisms I read on this board are specific enough, and detailed enough, for me to realize they aren't just empty bitching about losing.

This bitching would disappear if the reasons for it did. No one expects a team to win every game, that's not the point. The bitching is almost always about the decisions the team makes where it has other options.

[Technorgasm]

Yep, schedule says tomorrow. . . . how I confuse?

[Fort York Redcoat]

The criticisms I read on this board are specific enough, and detailed enough, for me to realize they aren't just empty bitching about losing.

No one expects a team to win every game, that's not the point. The bitching is almost always about the decisions the team makes where it has other options.

I'm not saying this is empty bitching what I am saying is that what is happening here is the assumption that the proposal of commitment that the 3 players signed is being presumed to be unfair or unrealistic because of our past news of dealings with players and MLSE(the club really).

I understand the prejudice here but I wanted to point out we are not fully informed on reasons of the departure of these 3.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yep coulda been tapped up by agents or clubs promisng great things.
Mostly im disappointed and i hope these kids do poorly (yep im petty like that)
Its still a pretty big gamble on their parts to up and leave like that.

[wzhxvy]

Losing Keven Aleman is going to bite TFC in the ass....this kid has a very bright future. I do not understand the need for a press release and would have hoped they would have been able to secure him. This is a failure and a disappointment. No questio about it.

[scooter]

mornin d

[CretanBull]

^^CB I know well enough you know what it is to support through the toughest times a club has to offer let's just remember everything coming out of the media is spun one way, then gets here, we talk about it, it's spun the OTHER way and there is an amount of truth in both. I don't mind hearing the reality behind the soundbytes we get served but let's please not ignore entirely potential for improvement in dealing with players and of play in general.

Agreed, and even if it doesn't come across in my posts I am hopefully optimistic...I wouldn't be here if I wasn't ;)



I understand the prejudice here but I wanted to point out we are not fully informed on reasons of the departure of these 3.

You're right, we don't know the details so its all speculative. Having said that, getting academy players to commit hasn't been a problem in the past. We have an example of Nana not wanting to make a long term committment (citing instability as his reason) and now we have three acamedy players (two of them very good players) refusing to commit as well. I'm sure a number of factors play into their decision, and I'm equally sure that at the very least seeing instability, contract disputes, the preception that players aren't being treated fairly don't help matters.

How many other MLS teams have problems getting commitments from their academy players?

[CretanBull]

Losing Keven Aleman is going to bite TFC in the ass....this kid has a very bright future. I do not understand the need for a press release and would have hoped they would have been able to secure him. This is a failure and a disappointment. No questio about it.

It really sucks...local guy, star of Canada's U17 team (the goal that he scored against Trinidad was incredible!), compared to DeRo - he was better than anything that we're likely to see coming out of the NCAA system.

He's someone that we might have lost regardless of any issues surrounding our team.

Not on the same level, but Jonathan Lao also looked like a pretty good player, probably good enough to be a MLS squad player anyway. I've never seen Dino Gardiner (or if I have, he didn't stand out in any way) play so I can't comment on him.

[denime]

Losing Keven Aleman is going to bite TFC in the ass....this kid has a very bright future. I do not understand the need for a press release and would have hoped they would have been able to secure him. This is a failure and a disappointment. No questio about it.

Aleman was MVP at CONCACAF U17 few months ago,Bayern Munich is after him,kid made a right choice and I would too.

Do you really think that a kid from LA of NYRB would stay with them if he has a option to go the club like Bayern or MANU?I don't think so.It has nothing to do with TFC,it's all about MLS vs Europe.

[bdiddy]

Do we ever ask the question... why do you want to develop players that won't play for your team? We could have maybe kept Aleman on the Academy for a few more seasons to potentially watch him leave for nothing to Europe? Why wouldn't we as fans want that commitment?

I remember back when the Academy was being developed, the idea was that the players had to sign something that said that they were committed to TFC and Team Canada.

The club stated also that they didn't want to develop players that would go overseas and play for another country either (I believe).

I am onside with what the club did with these players, i'm disappointed that Aleman has decided to try his luck elsewhere - and hope he does well with it. But at the same time the Academy is still young, as we bring up players from when their 12-13 all the way through, we may see more loyalty to the club/team?

[redcard]

Aleman was MVP at CONCACAF U17 few months ago,Bayern Munich is after him,kid made a right choice and I would too.

Do you really think that a kid from LA of NYRB would stay with them if he has a option to go the club like Bayern or MANU?I don't think so.It has nothing to do with TFC,it's all about MLS vs Europe.


Bingo...players know MLS has cap restrictions and low wages...if a euro team is interested in a mls team's academy player of course the player would go...has nothing to do with TFC everything to do with wanting to get to europe...i am sure that any new academy players will be required to sign this waiver before they suit up with an academy team...

[ManUtd4ever]

Aleman was MVP at CONCACAF U17 few months ago,Bayern Munich is after him,kid made a right choice and I would too.

Do you really think that a kid from LA of NYRB would stay with them if he has a option to go the club like Bayern or MANU?I don't think so.It has nothing to do with TFC,it's all about MLS vs Europe.

Good point Denime.

[Suds]

Academy players

I don't think there are any ulterior motives or backroom issues going on here. Of course TFC wants players they are training and investing in to make commitments to the club. That is normal because of the financial investment they are making. I don't think it's any secret TFC views the academy as both a way to develop players for the first team and once and a while be able to sell a prospect for a nice tidy sum of money. That happens at all kinds of clubs.

On the flip-side, we are going to have academy kids that are going to be of the pedigree to make a run at a club/league overseas. An athletes lifespan is pretty short and they need to maximize their chances for success. Take Aleman, he's played well in international youth tournaments so he will have been scouted and is probably being courted by some bigger clubs. In his case he probably feels making any long term commitment to TFC hinders his ability to make other choices.

Personally, I don't see any issue here at all. It's just a normal part of running an academy. Some kids will commit and some will not and take their chance elsewhere.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Agreed, and even if it doesn't come across in my posts I am hopefully optimistic...I wouldn't be here if I wasn't ;)

I'm very happy to hear it.


You're right, we don't know the details so its all speculative. Having said that, getting academy players to commit hasn't been a problem in the past. We have an example of Nana not wanting to make a long term committment (citing instability as his reason) and now we have three acamedy players (two of them very good players) refusing to commit as well. I'm sure a number of factors play into their decision, and I'm equally sure that at the very least seeing instability, contract disputes, the preception that players aren't being treated fairly don't help matters.

How many other MLS teams have problems getting commitments from their academy players?How many MLS teams have Academies? Not all of them if I remember correctly. Just a reminder that this Academy system is very new here and will struggle to keep players regardless of how a club is doing in MLS an admitted lower league than big 4 Europe.

[Darlofletch]

Like I said in my original post, i presume all clubs try and do this sort of thing, and you're right I shouldn't let my instinctive mistrust of mlse run wild.

Hopefully the new academy will develop quickly and kids will want to stay here to develop their game rather than try for overseas, or like teibert, vancouver.

[wzhxvy]

Aleman was MVP at CONCACAF U17 few months ago,Bayern Munich is after him,kid made a right choice and I would too.

Do you really think that a kid from LA of NYRB would stay with them if he has a option to go the club like Bayern or MANU?I don't think so.It has nothing to do with TFC,it's all about MLS vs Europe.

What is the point of the press release ? Why not let him go to Bayern for a tryout and be ready to welcome him back if it does not work out. I do not like the communication style and now why would Aleman return after this??

In terms if his choices, yes I can see a player "committing to the academy" if he trusted that his future was in good hands and that the club would give him every opportunity to develop including allowing him to go to trial with big clubs. There is something about the black and white nature of this that I dont like.

[reggie]

what happend to the bullshit...that the academy is the most important way to develop players,if our best players are going to leave at 16 and 17.whats the point.
i dont blame them,i would leave this shithole of a club also.

[Beach_Red]

What is the point of the press release ? Why not let him go to Bayern for a tryout and be ready to welcome him back if it does not work out. I do not like the communication style and now why would Aleman return after this??



This is the pattern CretanBull is talking about, the way the organization puts itself above the good of the team.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

or it could be that the kids just wanna play in europe as kids before them have and kids will want to in the future.

i really wish someone would start up a forum where MLSE conspiracies and inadequacies were at a minimum. hell id do it if i wasnt for the fact that ive got better things to do.

[CretanBull]

How many MLS teams have Academies? Not all of them if I remember correctly. Just a reminder that this Academy system is very new here and will struggle to keep players regardless of how a club is doing in MLS an admitted lower league than big 4 Europe.

As of last season the MLS requires all teams to have U-18 and U-16 teams as a minimum. Some teams (NY and DC for sure, I think there are others) have a series of teams that go all the way down to U-12.

I agree, when a big European club comes calling a player like Aleman is going to leave...teams in Holland, France etc. lose players to teams like Bayern Munich so there's nothing any MLS club could do to prevent that. Like I said above, he was probably someone that we were going to lose regardless.

IMO a bigger sign of trouble is seeing Lao and Gardiner leaving because I can't imagine either ending up in a league or on a team of any note. If they end up in France, Italy etc. or at a big club in a smaller league like Standard Liege or F.C. Copenhagen then fair enough. But we should be able to protect our academy players being poached for academies of smaller teams and/or teams who aren't in the 1st division of their respective FA's. If a 16 year sees being in the academy of a 2nd division Norwegian club as a better career route than being one step away from playing for a MLS club (to start his career) then we don't have much hope.

[wzhxvy]

This is the pattern CretanBull is talking about, the way the organization puts itself above the good of the team.

We are not Ajax FFS. You earn respect and a reputation. You dont start acting like some holier than now organization without a track record of success. As a matter of fact, its the opposite, we have a crap track record, whether it be results, ability to attract talent, how we treat our players, out ability to deliver on commitments....this is just not the way you go about things, I am now really starting to get worried.

[reggie]

ive seen aleman play a few games,to me he looks like the best am we have in the organization.maybe he wanted 30k to sign..its ok we still have peterson,gold,stugis,all great canadian prospects.

[wzhxvy]

or it could be that the kids just wanna play in europe as kids before them have and kids will want to in the future.

i really wish someone would start up a forum where MLSE conspiracies and inadequacies were at a minimum. hell id do it if i wasnt for the fact that ive got better things to do.

Great and if that is the case, why fight it ? issue a press release and basically tell the kids they are "fired"....

I do not know what conspiracy you refer to...maybe you should start a board where everyone agrees with you.

[Suds]

or it could be that the kids just wanna play in europe as kids before them have and kids will want to in the future.

i really wish someone would start up a forum where MLSE conspiracies and inadequacies were at a minimum. hell id do it if i wasnt for the fact that ive got better things to do.

I hear that!

[drexel10]

Aleman was MVP at CONCACAF U17 few months ago,Bayern Munich is after him,kid made a right choice and I would too.

Do you really think that a kid from LA of NYRB would stay with them if he has a option to go the club like Bayern or MANU?I don't think so.It has nothing to do with TFC,it's all about MLS vs Europe.


I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the kid is lazy and doesn't like practice. Maybe he has been told he is better than this level, so hopefully he has an attitude adjustment if presented with an opportunity like Bayern. It is a shame that he is leaving, because he looks to be a very good prospect.

[Whoop]

Don't understand the point of the press release though.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

ive seen aleman play a few games,to me he looks like the best am we have in the organization.maybe he wanted 30k to sign..its ok we still have peterson,gold,stugis,all great canadian prospects.

Sure, lets sign all canadian prospects at a young age and throw them in the game without developing.
Cmon man, Im sure winter would rid of those dudes if he had an option but he hasnt had that yet.


Great and if that is the case, why fight it ? issue a press release and basically tell the kids they are "fired"....

I do not know what conspiracy you refer to...maybe you should start a board where everyone agrees with you.

I dont want a board where everyone agrees with me, but i certainly dont want to be on a board where it always always comes back to MLSE fucking us in the ass, which isnt always the case

[wzhxvy]

I have heard from a pretty reliable source that the kid is lazy and doesn't like practice. Maybe he has been told he is better than this level, so hopefully he has an attitude adjustment if presented with an opportunity like Bayern. It is a shame that he is leaving, because he looks to be a very good prospect.

Are we talking about practice ????

[Suds]

Don't understand the point of the press release though.

Well, if they didn't announce it there would be a thread about how piss-poor MLSE/TFC's media relations is and how we all find this stuff out through personal connections; and not the club. Then there would be all kinds of speculation on what went down which would inevitably end up being a debate between the the same two camps that debate every little minutia about TFC to prove the same points that have been debated ad nauseum in every other thread. :D

I think I covered it. Cheers :drinking:

[Whoop]

I appreciate the effort of informing those interested - which is a normal change of pace - I mean I could just imagine the uproar in a couple of weeks when people would start threads... Where did Kevin Aleman go?

They could have just said... they left to pursue other opportunities, we wish them luck.

[Whoop]

Well, if they didn't announce it there would be a thread about how piss-poor MLSE/TFC's media relations is and how we all find this stuff out through personal connections; and not the club. Then there would be all kinds of speculation on what went down which would inevitably end up being a debate between the the same two camps that debate every little minutia about TFC to prove the same points that have been debated ad nauseum in every other thread. :D

I think I covered it. Cheers :drinking:

LOL... I was just mentioning that. See post above. LOL

At the end of the day it's still a MLS vs. Europe battle.

The bigger picture, as many have stated, is to slowly start increasing the salary cap so players can be rewarded.

[wzhxvy]

Well, if they didn't announce it there would be a thread about how piss-poor MLSE/TFC's media relations is and how we all find this stuff out through personal connections; and not the club. Then there would be all kinds of speculation on what went down which would inevitably end up being a debate between the the same two camps that debate every little minutia about TFC to prove the same points that have been debated ad nauseum in every other thread. :D

I think I covered it. Cheers :drinking:

While I see your point, its clear what the point of the press release is..."dont mess with us"..."we are building this great culture"...."you commit to us long term or you are out"....thats the point of the press release.

[Suds]

LOL... I was just mentioning that. See post above. LOL

yeah I know .. just having some fun before the long weekend :drinking:

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Well, if they didn't announce it there would be a thread about how piss-poor MLSE/TFC's media relations is and how we all find this stuff out through personal connections; and not the club. Then there would be all kinds of speculation on what went down which would inevitably end up being a debate between the the same two camps that debate every little minutia about TFC to prove the same points that have been debated ad nauseum in every other thread. :D

I think I covered it. Cheers :drinking:

HAHAHA yep

[ManUtd4ever]

While I see your point, its clear what the point of the press release is..."dont mess with us"..."we are building this great culture"...."you commit to us long term or you are out"....thats the point of the press release.

Isn't the press release more of a public statement as to the actual events that unfolded?

Isn't a letter of commitment standard protocol for all Academies?

I don't understand why Winter should be scrutinized in this case.



Toronto FC announced Thursday that they have parted ways with Keven Aleman, Dino Gardiner, and Jonathan Lao all players from the Toronto FC Academy program.

“We ask that our Academy players sign a letter of commitment, which is an agreement between our club and player that they will receive the best training and development opportunities, with the goal of reaching the first team,” said Toronto FC Head Coach and Technical Director Aron Winter. “These players have decided not to commit to our Academy in order to pursue tryouts overseas.”

Gardiner and Lao were members of the Academy senior squad while Aleman was a member of the junior squad. Aleman spent time with the first team during the preseason.

[Pigfynn]

Isn't the press release more of a public statement as to the actual events that unfolded?

Isn't a letter of commitment standard protocol for all Academies?

I don't understand why Winter should be scrutinized in this case.


Do you forget where you are?

:scarf:

[Roogsy]

I think a press release is normal and pretty standard. It's what they should have done, especially considering the environment we are in where the team's "positives" and all the hope has been emphasized on the Academy, thus, major material developments to do with the Academy should be made public. It would be a contradiction otherwise.

[CretanBull]

I dont want a board where everyone agrees with me, but i certainly dont want to be on a board where it always always comes back to MLSE fucking us in the ass, which isnt always the case

I was the one who brought up the 'chickens coming home to roost' point. Believe me with full confidence that the very last thing that I want to do is get in the middle of another negative thread and long drawn out debate that will end the way they always do - with both sides right where they started.

Having said that, I couldn't help pointing out that a small group of us predicted that our team would struggle to sign its academy players and we were ridiculed for it.

I reserve further judgement until we see how this story pans out.

[Roogsy]

I am not sure what the problem is with this whole situation though. If the players don't want to commit to TFC's contract, and want to try their hand elsewhere, shouldn't they be able to? And shouldn't TFC be trying to protect their interest by getting players to commit to some level?

Like I said before, sometimes there just isn't a deal to be had. TFC's interests conflicted with their own and they parted ways, hopefully amicably. That's business, that's life. I don't see any problem with what either side has done.

I will back-up CB's point though about people's euophoria over the Academy. I think some people placed far too much hope on it and failed to acknowledge the risks, whether it be what we are seeing today or many of the other risks. This development is somewhat of a dose of reality.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I was the one who brought up the 'chickens coming home to roost' point. Believe me with full confidence that the very last thing that I want to do is get in the middle of another negative thread and long drawn out debate that will end the way they always do - with both sides right where they started.

Having said that, I couldn't help pointing out that a small group of us predicted that our team would struggle to sign its academy players and we were ridiculed for it.

I reserve further judgement until we see how this story pans out.

if it becomes a regular thing and players are openly shunning the team and speaking out, then yes, until then its all speculation and i hope (and im sure you do too) that the theory is wrong

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Like I said before, sometimes there just isn't a deal to be had. TFC's interests conflicted with their own and they parted ways, hopefully amicably. That's business, that's life. I don't see any problem with what either side has done.

I will back-up CB's point though about people's euophoria over the Academy. I think some people placed far too much hope on it and failed to acknowledge the risks, whether it be what we are seeing today or many of the other risks. This development is somewhat of a dose of reality.

sad to say but yep, ideally we sign more players than we lose HA

[Whoop]

I thought the goal was to hold on to them long enough in order to sell them? And whichever ones they couldn't would make the 1st team?

[Roogsy]

^ First of all, that's the ideal goal but as we all know from life, what is ideal isn't what actually always happens. Of course TFC would love to hold on to every great prospect they have and either play them or sell them, but few on this board accounted for the fact that these players would be thinking for themselves (as well as their reps, agents and parents) and decide to take their careers into their own hands and not allow TFC to dictate to them their career path. Not to put a negative spin on that, because that is just the nature of the sports business (you know that I am sure) but I think the situation was made worse by the personnel problems TFC has been having. Some of these kids looked up to the players on on the senior team and seeing their frustration with TFC I am sure made an impression.

[CretanBull]

I thought the goal was to hold on to them long enough in order to sell them? And whichever ones they couldn't would make the 1st team?

The Mo Edu and Stuart Holden model - that's the goal for sure.

We're never going to stop the loss of players to Europe at the pro level as long as the MLS salary cap is in place. However, we shouldn't mistake losing a player to Chelsea with losing an academy player to Chelsea's academy because there's a world of difference between the two. Going to Chelsea over West Ham night and day, but at the acamdemy level West Ham has done a much better job of producing quality Premiership players than Chelsea have.

[Suds]

^ First of all, that's the ideal goal but as we all know from life, what is ideal isn't what actually always happens. Of course TFC would love to hold on to every great prospect they have and either play them or sell them, but few on this board accounted for the fact that these players would be thinking for themselves (as well as their reps, agents and parents) and decide to take their careers into their own hands and not allow TFC to dictate to them their career path. Not to put a negative spin on that, because that is just the nature of the sports business (you know that I am sure) but I think the situation was made worse by the personnel problems TFC has been having. Some of these kids looked up to the players on on the senior team and seeing their frustration with TFC I am sure made an impression.


That's a fair statement. If any of us were looking at a potential employer we would all take into account the history of that employers and how they have dealt with employees in the past. It's not the only factor, but it's fair to say that this would be weighed into the decisions academy kids will make.

[mastermixer]

All it will take is one kid from the Academy to get signed by Manchester United sometime in the future to set some precedent and get some recognition. Until then the TFC academy is a very small fish in a very big pond.

[Whoop]

Outside of Barcelona, most academies work on that model, especially in countries like Portugal or the Netherlands that can't hold onto their talents.

Players out of MLS academies will always be the ones looking to jump somewhere else or be sold somewhere else.

The only difference is that the shift will be fewer NCAA products and more academy products in the near future.

[TFCRegina]

I'm a critic of MLSE, I think everyone knows that.

I will say that I think the primary motive that they left was the opportunities are just more plentiful and fruitful in Europe.

But I also think the organization of TFC and MLSE played a part. There have just been way too many problems with TFC internally for it not to have played a part.

[Gazza]

TFC see it as a positive, which would explain the press release.

I'm more disappointed that i didn't see them play much. From what i've read, they sound like pretty good prospects for Canada going forward.

[Fort York Redcoat]

More about the Academy 3 here...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=28102

[Yohan]

The Mo Edu and Stuart Holden model - that's the goal for sure.
I believe Holden was signed on a free transfer

I'm not even sure how signing this 'letter of intent' or whatever legally binds the kids to sign for TFC... Any experts on Canadian labour law? (esp with kids being minors)

Though I can understand why TFC wants to protect their investments, to get some sort of possible return out of them

[CretanBull]

Outside of Barcelona, most academies work on that model, especially in countries like Portugal or the Netherlands that can't hold onto their talents.

Players out of MLS academies will always be the ones looking to jump somewhere else or be sold somewhere else.

The only difference is that the shift will be fewer NCAA products and more academy products in the near future.


Players transfering to Europe and selling academy players is fine, unless you're England or Spain that's a fact of life in soccer...losing unsigned academy players for nothing hurts.

[Beach_Red]

More about the Academy 3 here...

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=28102

Ha, yeah, I was just going to say it seems like we're talking about this here.

In the other thread, Section117 said, "For the most part these kids should not be signing contracts as professionals. The reason for that is that they would lose their eligiblity to play in college."

So it seems the choice these kids have to make is between taking a shot at Europe, getting an NCAA scholarship or staubng with the TFC academy.

If that's right, then TFC is going to have to make itself awfulling appealing to be anyone's number one choice.

[TFCRegina]

I believe Holden was signed on a free transfer

I'm not even sure how signing this 'letter of intent' or whatever legally binds the kids to sign for TFC... Any experts on Canadian labour law? (esp with kids being minors)

Though I can understand why TFC wants to protect their investments, to get some sort of possible return out of them

I think it would entitle TFC to compensation if the kids were to move on. It's more for FIFA laws than Canadian laws.

[CretanBull]

I believe Holden was signed on a free transfer

I'm not even sure how signing this 'letter of intent' or whatever legally binds the kids to sign for TFC... Any experts on Canadian labour law? (esp with kids being minors)

Though I can understand why TFC wants to protect their investments, to get some sort of possible return out of them

Houston got a back-door payment from Bolton who agreed to play a friendly in Houston. Not a transfer fee per say, but the money gained from that game probably worked out to what a transfer fee would have been.

I'm not sure if TFC (and/or the MLS) works the same way, but elsewhere if a player breaks the committment in a letter of intent, the club can sue the player for money they invested into the player's developement.

[CretanBull]

Ha, yeah, I was just going to say it seems like we're talking about this here.

In the other thread, Section117 said, "For the most part these kids should not be signing contracts as professionals. The reason for that is that they would lose their eligiblity to play in college."

So it seems the choice these kids have to make is between taking a shot at Europe, getting an NCAA scholarship or staubng with the TFC academy.

If that's right, then TFC is going to have to make itself awfulling appealing to be anyone's number one choice.

I believe that only kicks in when a player turns 18 or signs a pro contract, a letter of intent doesn't intefere with NCAA eligibility (I don't think so anyway) but if a player makes a committment to a team then he's probably decided against the NCAA route anyway.

The MLS/TFC should set up its own scholarship fund similiar to what the CHL (hockey) has to retain it's players.

[wzhxvy]

“We ask that our Academy players sign a letter of commitment, which is an agreement between our club and player that they will receive the best training and development opportunities, with the goal of reaching the first team,” said Toronto FC Head Coach and Technical Director Aron Winter. “These players have decided not to commit to our Academy in order to pursue tryouts overseas.”

Yes yes...this a postive development for us...losing our top talent because he wanted "to pursue tryouts overseas". This is like issuing a press release that my gilfriend dumped me because she wants another man, she is not sure who yet but wants to try out a few before making a final decision. Yeah thats real positive.

[DangerRed]

Oh Gerry Dobson, first the Nana story, and now this. I notice it only took you three paragraphs to butcher one of history's greatest writers. And I quote (from Gerry's "story"):

"As Charles Dickens wrote: "It was the best of times, it the worst of times."

[bdiddy]

You know... if my gf dumps me because she wants another man. Thats actually pretty good news to me, cause now I can pursue someone that wants me back.

Why would you want someone, that doesn't want to be here?


“We ask that our Academy players sign a letter of commitment, which is an agreement between our club and player that they will receive the best training and development opportunities, with the goal of reaching the first team,” said Toronto FC Head Coach and Technical Director Aron Winter. “These players have decided not to commit to our Academy in order to pursue tryouts overseas.”

Yes yes...this a postive development for us...losing our top talent because he wanted "to pursue tryouts overseas". This is like issuing a press release that my gilfriend dumped me because she wants another man, she is not sure who yet but wants to try out a few before making a final decision. Yeah thats real positive.

[prizby]

does anyone know if any of them sign in Europe whether we get any compensation for training them up until now?

[wzhxvy]

You know... if my gf dumps me because she wants another man. Thats actually pretty good news to me, cause now I can pursue someone that wants me back.

Why would you want someone, that doesn't want to be here?


My point is that if your gf is really hot, you know she wont be easy to replace, and that her leaving is not cause for celebration or announcement.

[CretanBull]

does anyone know if any of them sign in Europe whether we get any compensation for training them up until now?

No, we don't - the document that they players refused to sign would have given us that.

[prizby]

No, we don't - the document that they players refused to sign would have given us that.

well apparently we will be...

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1303493#post1303493

[CretanBull]

well apparently we will be...

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1303493#post1303493

I realize what it says there, but it was explained to me differently. I was told that the compensation is only paid if there's a transfere fee paid or if the player was obligated to the club who trained him. I believe what TFC were trying to get these players to sign were papers of obligation.

In any event, the amount of money is next to nothing - thousands of dollars, not the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions?) that someone like Aleman might have been worth in a transfer agreement.



EDIT:



Compensation is not due if:


i. the former club terminates the player’s contract without just cause
(without prejudice to the rights of the previous clubs); or

ii. the player is transferred to a category 4 club; or

iii. a professional reacquires amateur status on being transferred.


1. These players weren't under contract to TFC to beging with.

2. The players weren't transferred

3. The players weren't professional.

Looks like we get squat...