Winter has some tough lineup choices ahead of this weekend

[bgnewf]

Winter's Choice - MLS or Voyageurs Cup?

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/05/winters-choice/

With a tough road game in Denver ahead and the second leg of the Voyageurs Cup final next week, Aron Winter has some big decisions to make. Thoughts on lineups for the next two TFC matches.

[CretanBull]

I think the decision is made for him really. We can't win on the road, we can't beat a good team, so the odds of getting something out of the Rapids game seem slim. That seems like a game to give Cordon, Gold, Nana (?) a chance and focus on winning the Voyageur's Cup.

[Yohan]

tim, the game is on Sun, not sat

[bgnewf]

tim, the game is on Sun, not sat

Thanks!

:flare:

[habstfc]

I think the decision is made for him really. We can't win on the road, we can't beat a good team, so the odds of getting something out of the Rapids game seem slim. That seems like a game to give Cordon, Gold, Nana (?) a chance and focus on winning the Voyageur's Cup.

You can't give up on league games. Worry about the NCC game later, put out your best lineup against the rapids.

[Whoop]

I want the Voyageurs Cup this year as I doubt the team will make the playoffs.

Maybe make another run in the CONCACAF Cup.

[menefreghista]

The bigger question is who is hurt? Who is even available to play.

It would be awesome if for once some one covering this team could give us an update on ALL the injuries this team has.

By the way Zavarise is hurt, at least according to those previews to MLS games on TFC's official site. That's the only place I've ever seen his injury reported. I'm assuming Gordon is still out.

What are the status of Peterson and Tchani?

[Azerban]

You can't give up on league games. Worry about the NCC game later, put out your best lineup against the rapids.

yes you can, and we should

heck, we should say our entire team is injured and take the 3-0 forfeit

[Cashcleaner]

Will focusing on the league matches against Colorado and Philly somehow turn this team's fortunes around and convincingly help to get us in the playoffs at season's end? People are kidding themselves if they say yes.

We actually have a chance to win the Voyaguers Cup on Wednesday. All we need to do is show up on the field and play like we want to win and we've got a much better shot at beating Vancouver than we do beating the Rapids and probably the Union.

[habstfc]

Will focusing on the league matches against Colorado and Philly somehow turn this team's fortunes around and convincingly help to get us in the playoffs at season's end? People are kidding themselves if they say yes.

We actually have a chance to win the Voyaguers Cup on Wednesday. All we need to do is show up on the field and play like we want to win and we've got a much better shot at beating Vancouver than we do beating the Rapids and probably the Union.

You're willing to throw in the towel 11 games into the season? The rapids aren't that overwhelming a team. I think we could at least draw. We are only a couple points out of the playoff picture, a point could come in handy season's end.

[romburgundy]

We've come accustomed to not being in the playoffs. Come to think of it we've come accustomed to winning the cup too though. That's our cup and there is no way it will end up in Vancouver for a year. It would seriously rust in that weather; Made of pure cheep tin that one. So really it's TFCs duty to protect future cup winners from hoisting a rusty cup.

[A.J]

I wouldn't be surprised if Winter plays his best 11 (whatever that may be) or something close to full strength on Sunday. His attitude seems to be "go 100% every game, regardless of opponent" like he did for FC Edmonton.

I dunno if that's going to work in our favour though. I'd be content with not making the playoffs this season as long as we defend the NCC.

[Fort York Redcoat]

You can't give up on league games. Worry about the NCC game later, put out your best lineup against the rapids.

This is practically what Winter has said in his post match interview Wed.

I don't like it. At all. But it's likely that's what he's going to do. Best line up he can.

[CretanBull]

Some players injured, some players nursing injuries who could use the extra day off, JDG suspended, a road game vs a good team...play the kids and do your best to have a full team available to beat Vancouver. A road loss to the Rapids is expected, a home loss to Vancouver would be a disaster.

[koryo]

Some players injured, some players nursing injuries who could use the extra day off, JDG suspended, a road game vs a good team...play the kids and do your best to have a full team available to beat Vancouver. A road loss to the Rapids is expected, a home loss to Vancouver would be a disaster.

^^ That one. League-wise this season was always going to be a poor one. Winning the cup won't change that, but it's better than not winning the cup... at home...

Starting kids because some of your eleven are injured/knackered/whatever isn't giving up, it's pragmatic.

[Hitcho]

You can't give up on league games. Worry about the NCC game later, put out your best lineup against the rapids.


yes you can, and we should

heck, we should say our entire team is injured and take the 3-0 forfeit

What the hell?! Either this is a professional team or it's a pub joke. You can't toss games and expect it not to have an impact on the squad's mentality. What kind of message does that send?! You don't win shit in professional sports unless you are driven to succeed. And you can't turn that kind of commitment on and off like a frigging tap. This is exactly why De Ro was so pissed off with this place. Mentally, you're a winner or a loser - there's no middle ground. What do you want to teach the academy kids? Sometimes you can give a shit and others you can't? Give up and become an office clerk instead then.

Besides which this team is paid to go out and play football. They represent the club, the fans and the city. I don't want to be represented by a bunch of people who don't give a crap and are happy to lose. I'd rather pay to watch a bunch of crap players who would bleed on the shirt to keep it red.

No professional team should be looking to toss a league game and definitely not this early in the season. Whoever Winter picks is up to him, but he has to pick a team to win both games.

Otherwise, let's just fold this club right now because its entire raison d'etre is gone.

You guys need to watch the end of Rocky II, from the point where his wife wakes up in hospital and says "Win..... WIN!!!!"

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:scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf::scarf:

[Darlofletch]

fun.

though I'd like to think modern day training method are a little more sophisticated.

for the record, I'm all for the b team. whover's playing should be playing their hardest to get the win, and or make an impression and try and get their place in the first team back, whatever motivation they want to use. but when it somes to picking the team, put the v-cup game first.

[Hitcho]

But do you not think that putting out a strong line up and getting a win away to Colorado would kick start the boys not just for the V-Cup but for the whole season? Momentum is key in a league season. That could be a great fillip for the lads, even if they put in a good performance and get a draw - big boost to take into next game and beyond. Whereas there's no down side because losing there wouldn't shatter the team.

And anyway, Vancouver have basically whipped us twice. Resting the lads to effectively throw a league game would be a terrible waste if we went on to lose the V-Cup final, which we very well could even if Winter picks a B team for the Crapids game. Then you're on a double bogey, and that's not cool - bad momentum, bad morale, total loss of belief in both league and cup runs.

It's still early in the season - pick a team to win the next game. That's the only way to go and the only mindset to have for players and staff and fans. And given that Winter's a seasoned professional I think/hope he'll adopt the same approach.

[Hitcho]

fun.

though I'd like to think modern day training method are a little more sophisticated.



Nah, I'd love to see the TFC squad smashing up cars in a wrecking yard with a sledgehammer.

And it would be great if they took a run through the City each week and fans could run along behind them. Instant reconnect with the fan base.

[Roogsy]

I won't blame Winter either way for whatever decision he makes on Sunday. It's a tough call. I don't know what I would do. I would however be disappointed if we didn't do enough to win the NCC on Wednesday. It's the only success we are going to have this year. Fans deserve something from this year.

[bgnewf]

I won't blame Winter either way for whatever decision he makes on Sunday. It's a tough call. I don't know what I would do. I would however be disappointed if we didn't do enough to win the NCC on Wednesday. It's the only success we are going to have this year. Fans deserve something from this year.

amen brother

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I won't blame Winter either way for whatever decision he makes on Sunday. It's a tough call. I don't know what I would do. I would however be disappointed if we didn't do enough to win the NCC on Wednesday. It's the only success we are going to have this year. Fans deserve something from this year.


cosign

[backbeat]

I won't blame Winter either way for whatever decision he makes on Sunday. It's a tough call. I don't know what I would do. I would however be disappointed if we didn't do enough to win the NCC on Wednesday. It's the only success we are going to have this year. Fans deserve something from this year.

Damn!! The world IS going to end tomorrow - I agree with this^

[Pachuco]

The thing is our best team has a lot of different flavors. Winter has basically built a team of players this year where alot of them are actually at similar levels. It's not like the days where we had Dero, Guevara, Dichio and whoever else and if they were hurt we were screwed.

Right now each position is replaceable with similar players. You want to rest Plata? Put in Martina. Want to rest Santos, put in Stevanovic. Want to rest Williams or Cann, put in Nana and Harden.

Those are just some examples. The point is we don't have a best 11 on this team. We have a conssitent 18-20 players who are all at very similar levels and replacing one with the other isn't as big of a deal as it has been in year's past.

Not saying this team is better or worst for it, just saying the players seem to be consistently at similar levels.

Winter can put out two very different lineups for both games and they could both be considered our best 11.

[Hitcho]

^ Kind of agree, but some players are obviously key to any "strongest team" - Frei, Cann, JDG, Gordon...

[Pachuco]

^ Kind of agree, but some players are obviously key to any "strongest team" - Frei, Cann, JDG, Gordon...

On this team, Frei is the only one I can think of that is key to TFC's strongest team. And we don't have to rest him so that's all good.

Maicon has had no problems scoring goals in place of Gordon. Him one game and Gordon another isn't that much of a difference, just a difference in strategy.

Cann I think is reasily replaceable with Nana, even with the limited time he's been given.

I could go on and on but I think you get my point.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I do hope Cordon gets to play some this weekend

[Gazza]

I think the decision will be made for him due to injuries. I heard Winter say that Gordon would be back next week. Not sure if that meant Sunday or Wednesday.

I can see this being a tough game to watch from our part due to tired legs and altitude.

[backbeat]

I think the decision will be made for him due to injuries. I heard Winter say that Gordon would be back next week. Not sure if that meant Sunday or Wednesday.

I can see this being a tough game to watch from our part due to tired legs and altitude.

if Gordon is ready i'd like to see him come on as a sub for the last 30 to warm him up for Wednesday.

[jloome]

Tactics involve planning around two teams. Resting players and playing a weakened squad for this game would be somewhat shortsighted, given that Colorado has no healthy natural strikers. Casey, Cummings and Folan are all out with injuries (they've got Casey listed as probable this week, so they might have one.)

So basically, they're playing a six-man midfield on Sunday, or with one natural striker up top. That would suggest we might be able to get at least a point out of this.

[jloome]

Maicon has had no problems scoring goals in place of Gordon. Him one game and Gordon another isn't that much of a difference, just a difference in strategy.

But that's a major difference. Gordon can hold up the ball and dish wide all day long, so the opposition doesn't know whether the final ball's going to come inside or from the flank. Without him linchpinning everything, it's easier for opponents to cut down the entry into their attacking zone by crowding the ball (since we don't seem to know how to switch field.)

[Gazza]

But that's a major difference. Gordon can hold up the ball and dish wide all day long, so the opposition doesn't know whether the final ball's going to come inside or from the flank. Without him linchpinning everything, it's easier for opponents to cut down the entry into their attacking zone by crowding the ball (since we don't seem to know how to switch field.)

Exactly, and Gordon can hold the ball up and settle things down for us when we're under siege. He gives us a lot more options. When the other team is pressing us, Santos is more of a hindrance than a help. We've really missed Gordon (understatement).

[Roogsy]

Santos is a finisher, a pacher. He needs the service, he does not create opportunities for himself. But with service, I have more confidence in him than I ever did in Barrett.

The 4-3-3 works well I think if we can have Santos, Gordon and Plata all on the pitch at the same time. Plata creates opportunity, Gordon holds up the ball well and Santos can finish. The problem is competently getting the ball up to our forwards.

[Darlofletch]

But do you not think that putting out a strong line up and getting a win away to Colorado would kick start the boys not just for the V-Cup but for the whole season? Momentum is key in a league season. That could be a great fillip for the lads, even if they put in a good performance and get a draw - big boost to take into next game and beyond. Whereas there's no down side because losing there wouldn't shatter the team.

And anyway, Vancouver have basically whipped us twice. Resting the lads to effectively throw a league game would be a terrible waste if we went on to lose the V-Cup final, which we very well could even if Winter picks a B team for the Crapids game. Then you're on a double bogey, and that's not cool - bad momentum, bad morale, total loss of belief in both league and cup runs.

It's still early in the season - pick a team to win the next game. That's the only way to go and the only mindset to have for players and staff and fans. And given that Winter's a seasoned professional I think/hope he'll adopt the same approach.

theoretically sure, but at some point you have to admit you're tired and prioritise a bit. we've been hopeless towards the end of games for a while now, vancouver were battering us and almost scored, chicago battered us and almost came back to win, dallas we never looked like getting back into it, houston we only just came away with the win etc etc.

a lot of people have been playing all the games. Cann's been playing all the games even since his rib injury, he's had a couple of rough games in a row. He's the main person I'd think of resting, rather than sending him out there to wrestle with conor casey for 90 minutes.

[Cashcleaner]

You're willing to throw in the towel 11 games into the season? The rapids aren't that overwhelming a team. I think we could at least draw. We are only a couple points out of the playoff picture, a point could come in handy season's end.

How is focusing on the NCC in anyway throwing in the towel for the rest of the season? Think about it. We are one game away from achieving a tangible goal this season (winning the NCC). However, we are over twenty games away from achieving another (MLS playoffs). The points can be made up down the line. It's a bit of a risk, no doubt about that, but one we should definitely take.

[Roogsy]

A bird in the hand so to speak?

[TFCRegina]

No way we should start our best players against Colorado. It'd be a tough one to get a result in if we played our best players...there's altitude, they're physical and they're the Cup Holders. Rest the starters, play the reserves, and take your rested first team into the Championship final home leg.

[Roogsy]

^ If that is the decision he makes, so be it. Or if he decides to go for it, I will be ok with that too. At the end of day, I want Ws and I want trophies. As long as I feel players and coaches are giving their all to get that, I am fine. But whenever politics and greed interfere, that's when I get pissed off.

The coach lives and dies by his results, if he drops the ball in both games, he will rightly deserve the storm that is coming, but if he shows us insight and knowledge that helps get results in either game, then he has earned some respect.

[ManUtd4ever]

Considering the injury plagued roster at the moment, I don't think TFC has the horses to earn a result in both matches.

I applaud Winter's desire to try to earn results in every match, but I think he is partly responsible for the fact that some of our regular starters have been prone to injury lately because of the lack of a proper squad rotation during the most congested part of the schedule.

I just hope he prioritizes the NCC Final.

[Roogsy]

Then this is where his decisions will either cost us points (or a trophy) or will prove to be smart decisions. Either way, he should be credited or blamed for whatever happens. This is where you separate a good coach from a bad one. We need a significant result in the next 2 games, that much is the only thing I am certain of.

[habstfc]

Then this is where his decisions will either cost us points (or a trophy) or will prove to be smart decisions. Either way, he should be credited or blamed for whatever happens. This is where you separate a good coach from a bad one. We need a significant result in the next 2 games, that much is the only thing I am certain of.

How can anyone blame the guy for fielding the best team possible to win a game.

[habstfc]

How is focusing on the NCC in anyway throwing in the towel for the rest of the season? Think about it. We are one game away from achieving a tangible goal this season (winning the NCC). However, we are over twenty games away from achieving another (MLS playoffs). The points can be made up down the line. It's a bit of a risk, no doubt about that, but one we should definitely take.

The odds of us missing the playoffs by a point are not that bad, but remember 2009?

[TFCRegina]

The odds of us missing the playoffs by a point are not that bad, but remember 2009?

Yes, I do. We were on track to do a lot better than missing playoffs by 1 point after the same number of league games played.

[Alonso]

I won't blame Winter either way for whatever decision he makes on Sunday. It's a tough call. I don't know what I would do. I would however be disappointed if we didn't do enough to win the NCC on Wednesday. It's the only success we are going to have this year. Fans deserve something from this year.


Agreed.

No judgments will be made either way from this guy. It's a tough call. I see both sides of the argument.

[MG42]

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