First 11 Games Comparison

[Nestease]

I went through Wikipedia and took data from the first 11 MLS games from every TFC season. This is by no means meant to be scientific. I just thought it would be interesting to see them compared. Here's the results:

First 11 - Year by Year:
http://imageshack.us/m/146/2019/tfcfirst11.jpg


First 11 - 3 Top Goal Scorers:

http://imageshack.us/m/585/4746/tfcleaders.jpg

First 11 - Cards:
http://imageshack.us/m/222/2786/tfccards.jpg

[kodiakTFC]

Statistical proof that we suck. Some good work though, good job.

[Shakes McQueen]

The thing I find most interesting, is how after the first 11 games the last few years we have been around a GD of 0, with a winning record - and by the end of every season, we've had a losing record with a GD of between -8 and -9.

Makes it interesting to watch how our season trends this year, considering how dramatic of a break it has been from that cycle so far.

- Scott

[Nestease]

I was looking to compare possession stats to previous seasons, but I don't believe MLS has a record of them previous to this season. Since there was such a buzz about possession football this year, I thought i'd include it either way. Anyways, here's this years possession stats:

http://imageshack.us/m/42/1937/tfcposs.jpg

[RicoSuave44]

Cards are already beyond crisis point.....

[swan]

ya it 's not lookin good but i expected this so i'm not surprised..

[TOBOR !]

I appreciate the effort, but all this tells me is that an almost annual turnover in coaching staff yields poor results. There's no trend here other than instability.

[Eastend]

I was looking to compare possession stats to previous seasons, but I don't believe MLS has a record of them previous to this season. Since there was such a buzz about possession football this year, I thought i'd include it either way. Anyways, here's this years possession stats:

http://imageshack.us/m/42/1937/tfcposs.jpg

Any idea how this compares to the rest of the league?

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

Every Year has been a re- start year.... 7 skippers in 5 years... Its time we let someone take hold of this team for more then a season... and not hang the man after a bad year... i believe giving the proper time Winter will have a proper team in the not to long future...sad to say for a team who has been in the league for 5 years....but

If winter had been here since day 1 .....I beleive we would all be heading to LA in November!

[Globetrotter]

we've always had hot starts. A few times by mid May we've sat at the top of the east table. After fathers day, we have always crashed.

this time it's a slow start, but maybe a better summer and fall?

[CoachGT]

Regardless of anything else, the football has at least been entertaining this year. The first 60 minutes Saturday was very very good, as was pretty much the whole game against Houston. There have only been a couple of games that have been unwatchable this year (Dallas for one) and I've seen nothing as boring as the "neutral zone" trap style of play under Preki.

The only eye opener for me is that our worst games seem to be the ones with the highest possession figures. Not a major surprise because teams playing catch up often have stats like that, but interesting nonetheless.

Soft start this year, yes, but the "prediction" thread I did before the start of the season suggested that most people expected that - only 50% of people that responded in that area expected us to win the Voyageurs Cup this year.

[Globetrotter]

i didn't see the chicago game, but despite the win, the houston game was tough to watch. why do they keep doing longballs? I thought we were moving away from that. i remember earlier games in the season they were keeping the ball on the ground... lots of passing whether or not they could do a decent pass. man I hate longball at all levels of play.

[DangerRed]

we've always had hot starts. A few times by mid May we've sat at the top of the east table. After fathers day, we have always crashed.

this time it's a slow start, but maybe a better summer and fall?

Or it's a slow start AND we crash again after fathers' day, finishing worse than ever before...

[ManUtd4ever]

In years past, TFC has been in a comfortable playoff position in the standings at this point of the schedule. Perhaps this season we will finally see the trend reverse and the club will actually have a stronger record in the second half.

The number of dropped points at home early in the season are definitely disconcerting though. The upcoming schedule is congested with fixtures on the road, and JDG will likely be lost for a significant period of time during the Gold Cup. It is going to be an uphill battle the rest of the way.

[Pachuco]

Yikes! I had a feeling but never bothered to look at the stats. I'm not shocked that so far this team is worst then our first year team from all stats that matter. This is why I'll never understand the love fest for how this team plays. This is a team that didn't have to rebuild from scratch the way Mo Johnston had to rebuild. A team that already had a superstar and a DP with a pretty darn good resume. And somehow we've managed to be the worst team of all time to this point.

Winter deserves time, yes he does. But there's a difference between giving him time and praising him for doing a pretty shitty job up to this point. All this talk about this being the best team we've ever seen play at BMO is a bunch of exagerations. Too many people buying what MLSE is selling without looking at the product their getting.

Anyway, I do feel like this team is underachieving and they could be better. Time will tell I guess.

[Beach_Red]

Regardless of anything else, the football has at least been entertaining this year.


Please, don't ever say this. Don't ever say, "Regardless of anything else." Don't ever give this ownership an easy out like this.

Whatever happened to, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing."

Okay, I'm mostly kidding, but it does seem like for some reason we all decided that winning was impossible and we'd settle for "entertainment" instead.

[ManUtd4ever]

Okay, I'm mostly kidding, but it does seem like for some reason we all decided that winning was impossible and we'd settle for "entertainment" instead.

To be honest, after the sequence of events that invariably led to DeRo's departure, I lowered my expectations for this club in the short term. I am still holding management accountable in the sense that I expect an adequate replacement at AM to be signed during the summer transfer window, which will hopefully bolster the lineup for the second half of the schedule.

[Waggy]

Signs you are in a rebuilding year:

1) you fire your coach

2) you fire your GM

3) you trade your best player for young players and picks

4) you have a young roster, with salary space available

I want to win too but for christsake can we hold off for a little bit on this "The sky is falling" junk? We've known all year this was going to be a building year. We've known all year that this team was going to be changing it's style of play and most of the current players may not be able to adapt to it. We've known all year that Winter and Mariner only had 4 weeks after being hired to be active in the winter market, and at that time were mostly trying to assess what was here. You can either choose to look at the positives of the build- seeing young players playing well, seeing some players stand out in the new system, seeing entertaining matches. Or you can choose to look at the negative, that a young team that doesn't have a real talisman isn't going to win a lot of games. It's entirely up to you, but the course has been set, the die has been cast etc etc. This team is in a rebuilding year, either deal with it or stop watching.

[Carts]

Signs you are in a rebuilding year:

1) you fire your coach

2) you fire your GM

3) you trade your best player for young players and picks

4) you have a young roster, with salary space available

I want to win too but for christsake can we hold off for a little bit on this "The sky is falling" junk? We've known all year this was going to be a building year. We've known all year that this team was going to be changing it's style of play and most of the current players may not be able to adapt to it. We've known all year that Winter and Mariner only had 4 weeks after being hired to be active in the winter market, and at that time were mostly trying to assess what was here. You can either choose to look at the positives of the build- seeing young players playing well, seeing some players stand out in the new system, seeing entertaining matches. Or you can choose to look at the negative, that a young team that doesn't have a real talisman isn't going to win a lot of games. It's entirely up to you, but the course has been set, the die has been cast etc etc. This team is in a rebuilding year, either deal with it or stop watching.

I don't think comparing the stats of previous years is screaming the sky is falling - its interesting to read for people who like stats...

If anything, it might actually make the case that we are in fact rebuilding - fully rebuilding properly...

You could interpret the numbers that Winter isn't going for the quick fix, grab a few extra wins here and there, not get fired, some fake optimism that would do nothing for the future...

He's implementing his style, system, will bring in his players - and in the meantime unfortunately lose more than we win - instead of the quick fix so we're not dead last...

Carts...

[Roogsy]

Okay, I'm mostly kidding, but it does seem like for some reason we all decided that winning was impossible and we'd settle for "entertainment" instead.

And that's where MLSE has won.

My conversations with MLSE management have not given me any place in this whole organization. Without twisting words, or any chance of getting their viewpoint wrong, I can quite confidently say that MLSE's senior management have quite directly and clearly told me that their principal goal is to entertain first, then win. No word of a lie.

I will never forget that conversation. Ever. It is the day my confidence in MLSE completely died.

When I read words like "at least it's more entertaining", I shiver at the thought of TFC fans allowing MLSE to determine success. Because success to them is not the kind of success we want.

[Waggy]

I don't think comparing the stats of previous years is screaming the sky is falling - its interesting to read for people who like stats...

If anything, it might actually make the case that we are in fact rebuilding - fully rebuilding properly...

You could interpret the numbers that Winter isn't going for the quick fix, grab a few extra wins here and there, not get fired, some fake optimism that would do nothing for the future...

He's implementing his style, system, will bring in his players - and in the meantime unfortunately lose more than we win - instead of the quick fix so we're not dead last...

Carts...

Good points. Didn't think of it that way at all

[CoachGT]

Please, don't ever say this. Don't ever say, "Regardless of anything else." Don't ever give this ownership an easy out like this.

Whatever happened to, "Winning isn't everything... it's the only thing."

Okay, I'm mostly kidding, but it does seem like for some reason we all decided that winning was impossible and we'd settle for "entertainment" instead.

Just stating an opinion. This year it is watchable. I watched Portland/Philly a couple of weeks ago and wanted to poke my eyes out. It was beyond awful!

Winning? YES! Winning ugly? YES! Winning beautiful? YES! YES! YES! Well played draws? YES! Losing ugly? Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

[SilverSamurai]

Well it is more entertaining, but the team still sucks.
I"m not going to say fire Winter after this season though.

For some reason the "entertaining but sucks" comparison reminds me of wrestling... Sort of like Bret Hart vs. Yokuzuna... Bret would be more entertaining, but would lose to Yokozuna often...

[ExiledRed]

We have 2 less points than Mo's first squad, and that particular squad went the first 4 games without scoring.

Watching the players ping pong the ball backwards and forwards, and lose confidence in the final third before zinging it back to Frei is not any more wachable than Sutton kicking it to the other team and watching our players attempt to stop them bringing it back.

What is the criteria for systematic failure here?

[Couchy81]

Without twisting words, or any chance of getting their viewpoint wrong, I can quite confidently say that MLSE's senior management have quite directly and clearly told me that their principal goal is to entertain first, then win. No word of a lie.





That's the scariest thing I've ever heard. Toronto's sports teams summed up in a sentence. Hopefully the Jays make a run for the wild-card spot and draw 50k+ in the post season so MLSE see's what winning in this city really brings to the table.

[Beach_Red]

Signs you are in a rebuilding year:

1) you fire your coach

2) you fire your GM

3) you trade your best player for young players and picks

4) you have a young roster, with salary space available




How much salary space is available? And roster spots? Should we be expecting any new players to be coming in this year?

[P-NUTZ]

i think we have a lot of decent players, who are not putting a whole game together as a team.
we suck, but we suck with an unfamiliar potential that quickly comes and goes, comes and goes...

if we had got a point from dallas and 3 from chicago, i think everyone would be feeling better to a decent degree.

i would.

[trane]

And that's where MLSE has won.

My conversations with MLSE management have not given me any place in this whole organization. Without twisting words, or any chance of getting their viewpoint wrong, I can quite confidently say that MLSE's senior management have quite directly and clearly told me that their principal goal is to entertain first, then win. No word of a lie.

I will never forget that conversation. Ever. It is the day my confidence in MLSE completely died.

When I read words like "at least it's more entertaining", I shiver at the thought of TFC fans allowing MLSE to determine success. Because success to them is not the kind of success we want.

If I want entertainment I will watch a movie. On the pitch I want quality and winning. Again I have not given up on winter and the system, BUT I have very little belive in the MLSE.

I will buy seasons next year, or at least try, BUT only if they proof that they can win.

[Pookie]

If I want entertainment I will watch a movie. On the pitch I want quality and winning. Again I have not given up on winter and the system, BUT I have very little belive in the MLSE.

I will buy seasons next year, or at least try, BUT only if they proof that they can win.

How exactly are you going to be able to see "proof" they can win before the season starts?

[Pookie]

Did anyone actually expect playoffs?

At the end of the day, each season has ended in a failure to qualify. If we miss by 1 point or 10 points, it is still a failure.

To measure this season we should be looking at our system depth vs previous seasons. Worrying about point totals or goal differential is really pointless at this stage. Holding Winter "accountable" is fine. But not 4 months into a 3 Year deal. Questions of that sort are just plain dumb at this point

[ExiledRed]

Did anyone actually expect playoffs?



Since 2007 baby.

[rocker]

A lot of people on this very board disagreed with the notion of "just win, even if it's ugly" when Preki was the coach. Just sayin'. Not that he won a lot of games, but there was a winning streak under Preki and I distinctly remember a great deal of criticism for how the team was winning.

[ensco]

Did anyone actually expect playoffs?

Of course it's realistic to think you can/should get in. The majority of teams do.

Without rehashing other threads, plenty of poor teams have rocketed up the standings in a year. Just not us.

[trane]

How exactly are you going to be able to see "proof" they can win before the season starts?

Pookie, I am very possitive about winter and I am giving me time. But by the end of this season, they will have to show me that they have a form that would lead me to beleive that they CAN, not will, but CAN win going forward. Is that unreasonable. I am all for giving Winter and the system a chance but at some point proof is in the pudding.

And yes I make spelling/syntax errors when I type on this board.

[trane]

A lot of people on this very board disagreed with the notion of "just win, even if it's ugly" when Preki was the coach. Just sayin'. Not that he won a lot of games, but there was a winning streak under Preki and I distinctly remember a great deal of criticism for how the team was winning.

Not me.

[FreekAce]

Pookie, I am very possitive about winter and I am giving me time. But by the end of this season, they will have to show me that they have a form that would lead me to beleive that they CAN, not will, but CAN win going forward. Is that unreasonable. I am all for giving Winter and the system a chance but at some point proof is in the pudding.

And yes I make spelling/syntax errors when I type on this board.

think the first 60 minutes on saturday is proof that things are improving. had we not shit the bed by being complacent in the last 30, that game would've been one of our best ever, and showed that winter's tactics work and will pay off.

i was gutted by the result on saturday, but man did i ever enjoy the first hour.

[Nestease]

The only eye opener for me is that our worst games seem to be the ones with the highest possession figures. Not a major surprise because teams playing catch up often have stats like that, but interesting nonetheless.


Toronto has lost every game where they led possession, but it's on par with the league where only 25% of teams leading in possession have won.

On the other hand, they have never won possession on any of their draws.

[Suds]

think the first 60 minutes on saturday is proof that things are improving. had we not shit the bed by being complacent in the last 30, that game would've been one of our best ever, and showed that winter's tactics work and will pay off.

i was gutted by the result on saturday, but man did i ever enjoy the first hour.

It's funny you say that. We brought a friend on Saturday to his 1st game this year. At the satrt of the 2nd half he said to me that he could not understand why TFC were not doing better in the standings?? Why they have not won more games? He said they are clearly the better team and were playing better than the couple games he saw in past years ... then the rest of the second half happened.

He got his answer. :(

[FreekAce]

It's funny you say that. We brought a friend on Saturday to his 1st game this year. At the satrt of the 2nd half he said to me that he could not understand why TFC were not doing better in the standings?? Why they have not won more games? He said they are clearly the better team and were playing better than the couple games he saw in past years ... then the rest of the second half happened.

He got his answer. :(

thats why this one was a hard pill to swallow, it was not the tactics, nor the ability of the team that did us in on saturday, but what seemed to be a lack of interest. a that is unacceptable, and b it should give us some hope as its something that shouldnt be to hard to work out. i think with another couple of games we'll start to look more and more like that team in the first 60. now lets hope that team can pull of some victories and try do something this season.

[maninb]

"but what seemed to be a lack of interest."

Frei's interview seems to bear that out....he called out the forwards and midfield out for giving up on balls, and lacking effort...

[Nestease]

I was curious to see how Maicon Santos is stacking up to heavily criticized Chad Barrett. Maicon Santos so far is putting up on par numbers to Chad Barrett from last season.

Goals Per Start (MLS):
Maicon Santos (2011): .37
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season): .38

Goals Per Appearance (MLS):
Maicon Santos (2011): .30
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season): .30

Of course, Santos comes at half the price. Either way, it's pretty interesting.

[Dreadlocks]

And that's where MLSE has won.

My conversations with MLSE management have not given me any place in this whole organization. Without twisting words, or any chance of getting their viewpoint wrong, I can quite confidently say that MLSE's senior management have quite directly and clearly told me that their principal goal is to entertain first, then win. No word of a lie.

I will never forget that conversation. Ever. It is the day my confidence in MLSE completely died.

When I read words like "at least it's more entertaining", I shiver at the thought of TFC fans allowing MLSE to determine success. Because success to them is not the kind of success we want.

If MLSE's goal is to first "entertain" and win second, then they are failing on both fronts. Ya sure the games are not as ugly as they have been in previous years but I for one am NOT entertained when the team loses consistently. Apparently most fans feel the same way becasue if they liked this brand of entertainment they would show up for games like they did once upon a time.

[FreekAce]

If MLSE's goal is to first "entertain" and win second, then they are failing on both fronts. Ya sure the games are not as ugly as they have been in previous years but I for one am NOT entertained when the team loses consistently. Apparently most fans feel the same way becasue if they liked this brand of entertainment they would show up for games like they did one upon a time.

wins are never a guarantee, if you measure entertainment in wins, then supporting a local football team is probably gonna be frustrating. in that case your better of sticking with a barca or manure.

[trane]

think the first 60 minutes on saturday is proof that things are improving. had we not shit the bed by being complacent in the last 30, that game would've been one of our best ever, and showed that winter's tactics work and will pay off.

i was gutted by the result on saturday, but man did i ever enjoy the first hour.

I do think they are improving, but at some point this season, it has to result in wins/points. The MLS is not that competetive of the league that you can not put together a winning side after 15 games. I think that we are close, but I have to tell you that if we are still not winning games by mid summer, I will start re-examining my views on winter. However, right now I still believe that by the end of the season we will be a much better team. Plata has shown real creativity, great passing and finishing. He seesm to be the real deal.

[Pachuco]

I was curious to see how Maicon Santos is stacking up to heavily criticized Chad Barrett. Maicon Santos so far is putting up on par numbers to Chad Barrett from last season.

Goals Per Start (MLS):
Maicon Santos (2011): .37
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season): .38

Goals Per Appearance (MLS):
Maicon Santos (2011): .30
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season): .30

Of course, Santos comes at half the price. Either way, it's pretty interesting.

If you compare minutes played (which is much more accurate) and you take out the "maicon experiment" games as a midfielder I'm pretty sure Maicon has a pretty damn good strike rate. When he plays as a striker, he probably has better numbers then any other striker we've ever had.

[London]

i dont need to have a championship team, but i do want a team that can go out there and compete on any given night at least to the standards of the opponent.

TFC has struggled to do that on most nights, and i dont see this system with this group of players being any different.

[trane]

^ I agree with your first paragraph. I see improvement, but it has to result in wins soon.

[trane]

If you compare minutes played (which is much more accurate) and you take out the "maicon experiment" games as a midfielder I'm pretty sure Maicon has a pretty damn good strike rate. When he plays as a striker, he probably has better numbers then any other striker we've ever had.


When you observe Maicon he is head and shoulders above Barret, he gets in good positions, and has a quick release, when he has an oppening he gets the shot off, and he puts it on target, or close to much more often then Barret. He has the finishing touch Barrett did not have. Maicon is a good CF in the league. I have not seen enough from him to say he is great. But he could be.

[Roogsy]

I don't know if it's just my perception, but Santos just seems like a deadlier finisher than Barrett.

[FreekAce]

i dont need to have a championship team, but i do want a team that can go out there and compete on any given night at least to the standards of the opponent.

TFC has struggled to do that on most nights, and i dont see this system with this group of players being any different.

we have been struggling, but we've been competing as well. we need some consistency, but look at new york, a supposed championship team that completely screwed the pooch against the goats. its not as if the top teams dont have these issues, our team seems to have more of it, but think we deserve some slack because of the rebuild (again). from the last couples of matches i'd say we are well on our way.

[trane]

I don't know if it's just my perception, but Santos just seems like a deadlier finisher than Barrett.

He is, most defenetly, as I said, he puts a hard shot on target almost every time, and he is able to put the ball were he wants it more often then not. Barrett would seem to get nervous and blast. He improved in the early-mid part of last season, but he never had the same finish as Santos.

[Pachuco]

When you observe Maicon he is head and shoulders above Barret, he gets in good positions, and has a quick release, when he has an oppening he gets the shot off, and he puts it on target, or close to much more often then Barret. He has the finishing touch Barrett did not have. Maicon is a good CF in the league. I have not seen enough from him to say he is great. But he could be.

Yeap, agreed. And as Roogsy says, he simply is a natural finisher where as Barrett is the opposite.

The downside to Maicon is that he doesn't hussle half as Barret does.

But personally, as a striker, I would take the natural goal scorer who finds a way to score over the guy who runs his ass off all game but can't put the ball in the net. Don't get me wrong, guys like Barrett can be very useful, but not as your primary striker.

[trane]

^ I agree. strikers are there to score. I always thought that Barrett would be good on the wings. He runs hard and plays both ways. He is not a great defender, but he tries, and for a forward that is important.

[Suds]

^^
I hear ya. Maybe it's because Barrett missed many clear chances and Santos seems to score when it's a gimme; or at least a good chance.

What I would like to see is a breakdown of their goal rate on actual good scoring chances (not all shots are good scoring chances). Maybe that's why we perceive Santos as a better striker?? Maybe it is because Santos is much smoother in his play, often better positioned so he does not have to work as hard a Chad to get those opportunities?? Maybe Chad actually created more chances from bad plays because of his work rate but did not finish them?? Stats I often find don't tell the whole story.

That said, for some reason I feel like we have a better chance to score with Santos out there than Chad; and that may not actually be the case at all.

[trane]

^ More often then not, Santos puts proper shot(good power good location) on target, they are not just shots. he also gets some bad shots off, every strikers does, but nothing like barrett.

[Nestease]

Any idea how this compares to the rest of the league?

It's too time consuming to figure it out for the whole league, but here are the possession average from the best and worst teams in each conference.

Toronto 47.68

Kansas City 49.79%
Vancouver 44.45%

Los Angeles 53.31%
New York 55.43

[Dreadlocks]

wins are never a guarantee, if you measure entertainment in wins, then supporting a local football team is probably gonna be frustrating. in that case your better of sticking with a barca or manure.

But this is why most of the sentiment around the city about the team is negative - the team is losing! People aren't being entertained, they want to be entertained and the organization is failing miserably at doing this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to classify a sporting event as entertaining there has to be a positive experience for the fans. How can the experience be positive if the outcome is a predictable loss match in and match out?

Don't get me wrong though. I do come across as very negative but I believe this team will turn things around - this year. But until then, I will not attend or watch matches on TV (I have GolTV:)) to be entertained by the team itself. I will watch the games because I am entertained by soccer in general and love the city of Toronto.

[Nestease]

As requested:

Goals Per Minutes Played (MLS)
Maicon Santos (TFC 2010) - Goal every 231.7 minutes played
Maicon Santos (2010, 2011) - Goal every 222.7 minutes played
Maicon Santos (2011) - Goal every 210.6 minutes played
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season) - Goal every 220.7 minutes played

Goals Per Shots (MLS)
Maicon Santos (TFC 2010) - 0.148
Maicon Santos (2010, 2011) - 0.148
Maicon Santos (2011) - 0.15
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season) - 0.218

Goals Per Shots on Goal (MLS)
Maicon Santos (TFC 2010) - 0.333
Maicon Santos (2010, 2011) - 0.388
Maicon Santos (2011) - 0.5
Chad Barrett (Entire 2010 Season) - 0.43

[Ossington Mental Youth]

great now take into account who Barrett is playing with (service wise) along with the fact that he was going to cost us 300 (or maybe it was 200)k. no room for him at the inn, sorry (and i dont mind)

[FreekAce]

But this is why most of the sentiment around the city about the team is negative - the team is losing! People aren't being entertained, they want to be entertained and the organization is failing miserably at doing this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to classify a sporting event as entertaining there has to be a positive experience for the fans. How can the experience be positive if the outcome is a predictable loss match in and match out?

Don't get me wrong though. I do come across as very negative but I believe this team will turn things around - this year. But until then, I will not attend or watch matches on TV (I have GolTV:)) to be entertained by the team itself. I will watch the games because I am entertained by soccer in general and love the city of Toronto.

see i dont see it that way, i've gotten more entertainment so far this season then i did last year. i've been loving going to the matches and slowly but surely seeing things fall into place, from tinkering in the lineup to our passing game. seeing what works and what does not. and every game i see more improvement. thats what i look forward to, and thats what entertains me (winning from time to time sure helps though).
when mo and preki were sent packing at the end of last season i resigned to the idea that this season would be yet another rebuild, but i've been entertained and expect to get more of it as the season progresses and our team grows better and more competitive ;)

[Nestease]

great now take into account who Barrett is playing with (service wise) along with the fact that he was going to cost us 300 (or maybe it was 200)k. no room for him at the inn, sorry (and i dont mind)

The numbers show Chad Barrett had better stats than Maicon Santos while playing with the same players.

I'm not trying to question who is the better player. I like Maicon Santos but he's not the guy to carry this team. Your leading scorer and biggest threat can't be putting up Chad Barrett numbers. It would be one thing if the players around him were contributing in goals, but other than Plata everyone is on cruise control.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

see i dont see it that way, i've gotten more entertainment so far this season then i did last year. i've been loving going to the matches and slowly but surely seeing things fall into place, from tinkering in the lineup to our passing game. seeing what works and what does not. and every game i see more improvement. thats what i look forward to, and thats what entertains me (winning from time to time sure helps though).
when mo and preki were sent packing at the end of last season i resigned to the idea that this season would be yet another rebuild, but i've been entertained and expect to get more of it as the season progresses and our team grows better and more competitive ;)

yep, not enthused about ticket prices and glad to hear theyll be the same (too bad they arent dropping) but the overall statement above stands

[Beach_Red]

^ It's a small thing, but just to correct, Mo and Preki weren't sent packing, "at the end," of last season, they were fired during the season. And it became obvious right away that there was no plan at all about what to do beyond fire those two guys and it took months to get a plan in place. They could have hired Soccer Solutions at any time (even before they fired the GM and coach) and started the changes at any time. This season did not have to be the write-off it is. But we accept it.

[FreekAce]

true, but im not sure if they would have approached soccer solutions if they were not left scrambling. anyone know to what extent they are involved with the club?

[Beach_Red]

^ That's kind of my point - four seasons in and they were still scrambling and we still accept it and say, well, now they're doing better. But maybe they just hired different front men and they're actually doing the same.

[FreekAce]

perhaps, but i try not to speculate on that, i can only go by what i see on the pitch yknow?

[Walnut]

Barrett is not missed and can be considered a not good striker -- that there is any room for discussion or comparisons between him and Santos does not reflect well on Santos.

[Pachuco]

Maicon has 5 goals this year. Considering he got stuck playing a new position for a little while and he's also had limited playing time at times really not too bad at all. Just check who's around him and under him on MLSSoccer.com and you'll see he's pretty good bang for his buck.

He's obviously on track to score 10-15 goals this year. If winter keeps him as a striker he'll get there.

How exactly is this a bad thing?

[TOBOR !]

^ It's a small thing, but just to correct, Mo and Preki weren't sent packing, "at the end," of last season, they were fired during the season. And it became obvious right away that there was no plan at all about what to do beyond fire those two guys and it took months to get a plan in place. They could have hired Soccer Solutions at any time (even before they fired the GM and coach) and started the changes at any time. This season did not have to be the write-off it is. But we accept it.

What, if anything, would Winter and Co. have been able to accomplish if they'd took over the club toward the end of last season ? Would they have fared any better than Dasovich ? Unlikely.

The double-firing of Johnston and Preki was probably motivated largely by the unrest of the supporters. MLSE hadn't planned for it, so had no solution in place other than moving a guy up to take over the interim mantle. Regardless of what you think of him, Daso would've kept the club going in the direction it was moving in.

The route MLSE ended up taking, while admitting they needed help, shows some degree of thought at least. Not wanting just to sign any available candidate. Bringing in a management team that will develop a style and look for players best suited to that style shows some vision.

Doing anything any differently than the way it has played out, IMO (talking about events since toward the end of last year), would have been erroneous.

At least if you step back and look at the big picture you can see we're going somewhere.

[mastermixer]

Oddly enough, Torontofc.ca added a highlight reel of the first half of the season.

Best part? It's only 39 seconds long.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=-2&id=3128

[menefreghista]

Oddly enough, Torontofc.ca added a highlight reel of the first half of the season.

Best part? It's only 39 seconds long.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=-2&id=3128

LOL.

[Beach_Red]

What, if anything, would Winter and Co. have been able to accomplish if they'd took over the club toward the end of last season ? Would they have fared any better than Dasovich ? Unlikely.

The double-firing of Johnston and Preki was probably motivated largely by the unrest of the supporters. MLSE hadn't planned for it, so had no solution in place other than moving a guy up to take over the interim mantle. Regardless of what you think of him, Daso would've kept the club going in the direction it was moving in.

The route MLSE ended up taking, while admitting they needed help, shows some degree of thought at least. Not wanting just to sign any available candidate. Bringing in a management team that will develop a style and look for players best suited to that style shows some vision.

Doing anything any differently than the way it has played out, IMO (talking about events since toward the end of last year), would have been erroneous.

At least if you step back and look at the big picture you can see we're going somewhere.


Yes, going somewhere, there is a goal in mind and a direction. And we have to have faith that it's an attainable goal for an MLS team. It really all comes down to the ability of the team to sign the players, right? So let's hope they can.

[ManUtd4ever]

What, if anything, would Winter and Co. have been able to accomplish if they'd took over the club toward the end of last season ? Would they have fared any better than Dasovich ? Unlikely.

The double-firing of Johnston and Preki was probably motivated largely by the unrest of the supporters. MLSE hadn't planned for it, so had no solution in place other than moving a guy up to take over the interim mantle. Regardless of what you think of him, Daso would've kept the club going in the direction it was moving in.

The route MLSE ended up taking, while admitting they needed help, shows some degree of thought at least. Not wanting just to sign any available candidate. Bringing in a management team that will develop a style and look for players best suited to that style shows some vision.

Doing anything any differently than the way it has played out, IMO (talking about events since toward the end of last year), would have been erroneous.

At least if you step back and look at the big picture you can see we're going somewhere.

Well said.

[Carts]

Oddly enough, Torontofc.ca added a highlight reel of the first half of the season.

Best part? It's only 39 seconds long.

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=-2&id=3128

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE NOT JOKING!

One of the 'Highlights of the 1st Half of the Season' was an open 6-foot completed pass... WTF?

[Azerban]

seems completely accurate

[mastermixer]

HOLY SHIT YOU'RE NOT JOKING!

One of the 'Highlights of the 1st Half of the Season' was an open 6-foot completed pass... WTF?

You can't make this stuff up folks. :scarf:

[Inklink]

We have 2 F***ING wins! :scarf:

[Walnut]

We have 2 F***ING wins! :scarf:

If they did a TV special covering those, it would be a 8-hour epic!

[Kaz]

Now the question I have is if the boys start playing better in the second half of the season with longer breaks between games (the first 11 games are all in a short period they've player twice a week every week almost since the beginning of the season) And by the end of the season we don't have our annual we totally fucked the dog and dropped a ton of points blow out, will everyone be satisfied?


The talent is there, the ability is there, when they all come out to play they can actually do well, but they don't not for the full 90, and Winter needs to get them to do that, and they need to get themselves to do that. That is what we need.

[habstfc]

Now the question I have is if the boys start playing better in the second half of the season with longer breaks between games (the first 11 games are all in a short period they've player twice a week every week almost since the beginning of the season)

This is the main reason I believe for the meltdown on saturday, fatigue.