The mindset of management

[mastermixer]

I just saw a tweet from Mr Paul Beirne:


@Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne)
@lzwer (http://twitter.com/lzwer) prices are staying flat.

Which was in response to:


@lzwer (http://twitter.com/#%21/lzwer)

Let's see MLSE try to raise #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TFC) season ticket prices next year.

This is the biggest problem with this club... the only issue the suits think they have is pricing season tickets. He has retweeted this several times this season and doesnt seem to realize that freezing ALREADY HIGH-PRICED tickets is not going to magically bring the fans back next year.
I'm sorry TFC but unless I see value in my already high ticket prices why would freezing tickets make everything OK in November?
I swear these people are clueless :facepalm:

[wzhxvy]

Of course they are clueless, but they are also arrogant, which is why when they have failed, they have not adjusted.

[Pachuco]

There's alot more that's going to stay flat as well Mr. Beirne. Atmosphere, attendance, ticket sales, merchandise sales are all going to be pretty "flat" if your ticket prices stay flat.

[ilikemusic]

There's alot more that's going to stay flat as well Mr. Beirne. Atmosphere, attendance, ticket sales, merchandise sales are all going to be pretty "flat" if your ticket prices stay flat.

They will be lucky if attendance and atmosphere remain flat. A steady decline is much more likely.

[ensco]

They must be spending money on a high profile DP then. It's the only explanation. Otherwise BMO will be a mausoleum next year.

[Roogsy]

They must be spending money on a high profile DP then. It's the only explanation. Otherwise BMO will be a mausoleum next year.

I think a DP is a must. I'd be shocked if one did not come in for summer, too late for this year no surprise. But with doubt over JDG coming back and losing production on the goal-scoring front (for some strange reason even tho we're playing "attacking" soccer) a forward DP (finally) has to come in. They'd be dumber than I already think they are if they didn't.

But remember, that will justify price increases after next year's "generous" price freeze.

[nfitz]

This is the biggest problem with this club... the only issue the suits think they have is pricing season tickets.Isn't that a case though to not lower ticket prices? Because it's not the biggest problem with the club, so why lower them!


I swear these people are clueless :facepalm:I swear these people are clueless :picard:

[ensco]

I think a DP is a must. I'd be shocked if one did not come in for summer, too late for this year no surprise. But with doubt over JDG coming back and losing production on the goal-scoring front (for some strange reason even tho we're playing "attacking" soccer) a forward DP (finally) has to come in. They'd be dumber than I already think they are if they didn't.

But remember, that will justify price increases after next year's "generous" price freeze.

That would be amusing.

It depends on the player, but it probably won't work if they try that.

Ticket base is too fragile.

[SirBobSaget]

I'm committed to a few more games this season and no way in hell am I paying full price to see the other games. Won't be back next year at these prices. 150$ for the privilege to watch mostly dull soccer, awful game-deciding officiating and then on top have to deal with all the traffic/parking headaches. No thanks.

I've been attending games for 2 seasons now (since moved to GTA). The thrill of live experience is gone and its priced way above the value.

Also: I actually get angry when i see the face value printed on ticket when I bring them out on game days. Its like going to an expensive restaurant and being served garbage food. Thats how every live game feels to me this season.

[Beach_Red]

That would be amusing.

It depends on the player, but it probably won't work if they try that.

Ticket base is too fragile.


A DP or will they just hire a bigger name consultant? Are consultant fees tax deductable?

[prizby]

what is insane is that toronto fc season ticket holders don't get any type of discount or anything to academy games

$15 for the academy...$20 for supporters section for first team (STH price)

[CretanBull]

A DP is a MUST just to mantain the current mostly apathetic and disinterested people that they have now. If they want to get things back to where they were they're going to have to think a lot bigger...two DP's of the house-hold name variety (Marquez/Henry types), 3 of JDG doesn't come back and make a long term committment to a price freeze.

[CretanBull]

what is insane is that toronto fc season ticket holders don't get any type of discount or anything to academy games

$15 for the academy...$20 for supporters section for first team (STH price)

If they made these games $5 they'd get 10x the turn out.

[ExiledRed]

A DP or will they just hire a bigger name consultant? Are consultant fees tax deductable?

Maybe the next consultant will look further afield than Toronto for ideas. Maybe he'll contact someone in Oakville or Mississauga nxt time.

[DangerRed]

If ticket prices are staying flat next year, then that means they're staying really really high. My buddies and I are out next season as SSHs without a significant price cut (which I don't think will happen). It'll be so easy to get walkup tickets that there's really no point getting seasons, especially given how overpriced they are. My friends and I have a really hard time currently try to give tickets away (never mind selling them). Can you imagine what the situation will be at the end of this year when we finish, as projected, close to the bottom of the table?

I've been to almost every single home game the last three years, but I just don't think I have the patience any more - again, especially at these prices. I'll continue to support the team, but it won't be through seasons and it might not always be at BMO.

EDIT: As far as a DP goes, it's bizarre to me to bring one in when a season is beyond salvage. I guess they have to, given that most players go out of contract for the summer window? In any case, I just hope that this doesn't turn out to be a desperation signing of a profile-over-quality player, like a Luca Toni.

[boban]

EDIT: As far as a DP goes, it's bizarre to me to bring one in when a season is beyond salvage. I guess they have to, given that most players go out of contract for the summer window? In any case, I just hope that this doesn't turn out to be a desperation signing of a profile-over-quality player, like a Luca Toni.
Where is the season beyond salvageable?
We are 13th out of 18th with 68% of the season to go.
8 through 12 are 3 points or less ahead. Some of those have only 1 game in hand. If we won last night we would right in the thick of the playoff race.
Half of the games we have played ended up in a draw, a DP striker would help in those situations.
Also, I would think a DP striker would be coming in June sometime as the Euro leagues would be well and done for a couple of weeks by then.
All in all, the season is still salvageable.

[menefreghista]

FIFA rules are a little sketchy here, we may not be able to sign a player who has played in Europe until July 15. By that time we will have played 21 of our 34 MLS games. Will we still be within a shouting distances of a playoff spot than? Its possible, especially with over 50% of teams making the playoffs.

As for the pricing, even with a price freeze they can actually claim to their bosses that they have raised prices, because there won't be a free game this time.

They can probably get away with not touching the prices on the south end and light grey ticket prices. But I think they would be insane to not discount the rest of the stadium.

[s2cazz]

what is insane is that toronto fc season ticket holders don't get any type of discount or anything to academy games

$15 for the academy...$20 for supporters section for first team (STH price)

They could swap stadiums. Academy @ BMO and TFC at Lamport. Unless a BIG name DP is brought in I don't see sellouts anywhere in the senior teams future.

[Blowing Bubbles]

what is insane is that toronto fc season ticket holders don't get any type of discount or anything to academy games

$15 for the academy...$20 for supporters section for first team (STH price)

that is completely ridiculous. You would think with a season pack they'd stuff in 6 complimentary Academy tickets - you know so that you can introduce new fans to the game, maybe bring your kids, etc.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I swear these people are clueless :facepalm:

same as it ever was

[menefreghista]

I think because we are hardcore fans we tend to over-value of the interest in the Academy.

If TFC gave SSH Academy tickets they would be the equivalent of Marlies tickets. The average SSH doesn't give a shit about the CSL Academy team and would have no interest attending games.


If they made these games $5 they'd get 10x the turn out.

I disagree with this assessment. I don't have any real facts, but its just a general feeling that it wouldn't matter.

It might have been possible in the CSL Academy team in its first season, but not now.

[drexel10]

Where is the season beyond salvageable?
We are 13th out of 18th with 68% of the season to go.
8 through 12 are 3 points or less ahead. Some of those have only 1 game in hand. If we won last night we would right in the thick of the playoff race.
Half of the games we have played ended up in a draw, a DP striker would help in those situations.
Also, I would think a DP striker would be coming in June sometime as the Euro leagues would be well and done for a couple of weeks by then.
All in all, the season is still salvageable.


Thank you! The season is about being consistent. Two weeks ago Dallas were apparently a terrible team and Houston great, but now it is reveresed. I understand that we are very negative (especially after a loss), but I think the team is showing signs of improvement.

[kaos197O]

Thank you! The season is about being consistent. Two weeks ago Dallas were apparently a terrible team and Houston great, but now it is reveresed. I understand that we are very negative (especially after a loss), but I think the team is showing signs of improvement.

And so far we've been very good at that! Let's hope we see some inconsistency now in that we finally string together a few wins!

[RedRum]

Reposted from another thread:


For those that think signing a "name" DP would solve TFC's ticket selling problems, ask yourself why "the Beckham game" in 2007 was fetching $400-$500 per ticket from scalpers, while the same game this year had walk-up tickets still available for purchase the day of the game.

The road to redemption will be long and winding for MLSE as far as TFC is concerned.

Really, I think those that believe signing a DP will solve interest problems, you will be proven wrong if that happens. Might buy them one year at the same renewal rate (which was bad to begin with), tops.

Like Roogsy said, it takes a special kind of incompetence to screw up something that has been gift-wrapped for you. I believe the only reason the entire FO hasn't been canned yet is because of the rumored MLSE sale and firing people involved in the business aspect of the team would be an admission of a failing product and would lower the value.


If they made these games $5 they'd get 10x the turn out.

All we need to do is get minimum 20-50 people together for a game and tickets can be had in "group buys" for $5-8... this applies to not only home games but away games as well.

[boban]

FIFA rules are a little sketchy here, we may not be able to sign a player who has played in Europe until July 15. By that time we will have played 21 of our 34 MLS games. Will we still be within a shouting distances of a playoff spot than? Its possible, especially with over 50% of teams making the playoffs.

As for the pricing, even with a price freeze they can actually claim to their bosses that they have raised prices, because there won't be a free game this time.

They can probably get away with not touching the prices on the south end and light grey ticket prices. But I think they would be insane to not discount the rest of the stadium.
I understand that but ...
Danny D, although not a DP, came here in May for us. The leagues are done in 2 weeks in Europe. Don't see why MLS would be screwing their teams till July.

[drexel10]

And so far we've been very good at that! Let's hope we see some inconsistency now in that we finally string together a few wins!

We have always strung together a few wins, followed by more losses. If you look the evolution of RSL and Dallas in particular, they both made runs after being written off as lousy teams early in the year. They built up into good teams after that.

[jazzy]

what is insane is that toronto fc season ticket holders don't get any type of discount or anything to academy games

$15 for the academy...$20 for supporters section for first team (STH price)

SO TRUE.....I mean they are idiots wouldn't families want to bring everyone to a game?,...never when it costs $60 for 4........and it breaks my heart cause I love the academies, the experience actually was on par if not better than at BMO,....I try not to be too negative and will probably be last to ever jump ship but while these non sports people run the ship I am sooo afraid of them ruining the soccer experience in TO, thats what I am willing to battle for, cause I love the game and support does mean in trying times!

[kaos197O]

We have always strung together a few wins, followed by more losses. If you look the evolution of RSL and Dallas in particular, they both made runs after being written off as lousy teams early in the year. They built up into good teams after that.
I can agree, my statement about TFC's consistency was based on this season only, at the time, but I guess it could apply to our entire history too.

I hope we'll see that exact evolution that happened with both Dallas and RSL. I have not written the season off as this is MLS and I've seen teams turn their seasons around with a couple of lucky games nevermind actually playing quality football. Literally, anything can happen, it's a long, long season.

The one thing I still cannot say is that our current form and the decisions being made by Winter inspire me to believe that this will actually transpire. Again, I hope to be wrong but the clock really is ticking as others have pointed out.

[reggie]

that is completely ridiculous. You would think with a season pack they'd stuff in 6 complimentary Academy tickets - you know so that you can introduce new fans to the game, maybe bring your kids, etc.

from what ive seen.i think the best striker we have is playing for the academy right now.

[Blixa]

I'm committed to a few more games this season and no way in hell am I paying full price to see the other games. Won't be back next year at these prices. 150$ for the privilege to watch mostly dull soccer, awful game-deciding officiating and then on top have to deal with all the traffic/parking headaches. No thanks.

I've been attending games for 2 seasons now (since moved to GTA). The thrill of live experience is gone and its priced way above the value.

Also: I actually get angry when i see the face value printed on ticket when I bring them out on game days. Its like going to an expensive restaurant and being served garbage food. Thats how every live game feels to me this season.

It's like paying Keg prices at McDonald's. It just doesn't add up.

@boban - I"ve been hearing this story for the fifth season in a row now. There is no way that we'll make the playoffs this year.

[Redcoe15]

Someone may have said it elsewhere. And if they do, it bears repeating.

Toronto FC is like the sweet girl you're in love with and are dating. ML$E are her psycho douchebag parents you cannot stand.

[boban]

@boban - I"ve been hearing this story for the fifth season in a row now. There is no way that we'll make the playoffs this year.
I never said we're going to make the playoffs this year. But not saying we are not either.
Just saying this year is not a right off just yet.

[Oblio2]

Im out. Tickets are virtually impossible to re-sell, the standard of football is crap, prices are terrible, MLSE doesnt care, refrerreing is awful ....I can get walk-ups if needed. Im done.

[C.Ronaldo]

doesnt help that I nor the casual sports watcher cant catch the game on tv, unless i have GOL.

which even if I do, no one ventures off into the high channel numbers anyways when channel surfring

[Parkdale]

Im out. Tickets are virtually impossible to re-sell, the standard of football is crap, prices are terrible, MLSE doesnt care, refrerreing is awful ....I can get walk-ups if needed. Im done.


damn. shitty to hear that.

TFC should take note - Oblio has been a ticket holder since day 1 and is probably one of the few people lower on the SSH list than me.

when these people are walking away, you know there's a real problem.

[dow117]

Im out. Tickets are virtually impossible to re-sell, the standard of football is crap, prices are terrible, MLSE doesnt care, refrerreing is awful ....I can get walk-ups if needed. Im done.

Ditto my friend... I have been there with 4 seats since day 1. Travelled to Columbus, Chicago, New York, Van and Seattle x2 to watch the boys. But , this season has seen my passion wane and why MLSE ok'd this schedule is beyond me. I cannot even give away tix for most games now and I am embarrassed to take any folk now to a game with no atmosphere or joy. A few more games and I am done; just cannot afford the trips to BMO much longer.

[Carts]

I only used one of my tickets on Saturday - earlier in the week before the weather was even an issue I didn't even try to sell off the pair and then purchase a single...

[London]

reading this thread is very depressing, i understand where you guys are coming from.

the cost is becoming unjustifiable for me as well. i couldnt sell 112 tix this season.

with gas, ticket, parking, eating somewhere, im over 100 bucks easy and 8 hours of my time.

ive asked myself over the last few weeks, is it worth it to invest all this time and effort??

[Whoop]

I'm close to that point as well.

I don't think I'll ever give up the tickets I have since I live in Toronto but there is a growing sense of apathy.

[Suds]

Ditto my friend... I have been there with 4 seats since day 1. Travelled to Columbus, Chicago, New York, Van and Seattle x2 to watch the boys. But , this season has seen my passion wane and why MLSE ok'd this schedule is beyond me. I cannot even give away tix for most games now and I am embarrassed to take any folk now to a game with no atmosphere or joy. A few more games and I am done; just cannot afford the trips to BMO much longer.

I do not know how much input they get, but the schedule this year is beyond ridiculous. Start times are all over the place, too many evening games at the start of the year when our weather is crap and cold, too many home games bunched up in the start of the season with hardly any during the summer. Even away games to cities nearby for the most part are scheduled on crap dates.

I mused to to some friends recently that MLS must figure they can give TFC the crap schedule because their tickets are sold and try to give other teams a better schedule to attract more fans. I know it's crazy thinking this is what happened, but TFC management must be talking to the MLS and saying they can't have another schedule this shit. Please, soneone tell me they are. :(

[Parkdale]

I think part of the apathy is just burnout from having so many games this early in the season.

I'm sure that in July when we only have 1 home game, we'll be dying to get down there. Sunshine helps too.

[spark]

As much as I'd like to see a high profile DP player come in here, I'd be too worried that it would just be another bandaid "short term solution for long term problems" that plague MLSE. Ok they'd get a spike in ticket sales, we'd all be drooling over 'what might be' and in two years we're back to square one.

I'd rather see an investment in a scouting network in central and south america.

[ManUtd4ever]

The schedule is awkward this season, but the price point for the majority of seasons ticket holders is the primary issue moving forward, regardless of the club's success on the pitch. I sincerely hope MLSE is aware of the growing sentiment among the fragile fan base.

I will hold on to my seasons tickets because I still consider them to be a reasonable value, but I can certainly understand why others have reached their breaking point.

[ensco]

^Our current FO can say they made a mistake with Mo, but they cannot admit they were wrong on marketing/pricing, people in the position they're in, they just can't do that. It's corporate suicide.

Absent some sort of unimaginable huge winning streak....the FO will bring in some sort of DP to goose interest, but they won't do nearly enough to stem the tide, and 2012 renewals will fall by some huge number.

While it'll be amusing to see these guys get their comeuppance, it's painful to think about.

The suits had something special, and threw it all away.

[Derko]

same as it ever was

^ Isn't that a line from a Talking Heads song, "Once in a Lifetime"

[Whoop]

I love the weekend evening games but I think Suds put it best - as others have in the past.

Save the evening games for the summer.

But there's more to it, I just can't pinpoint the exact feeling. I've seen worse football in the past, so it's not that. And it's not the crushing draws or defeats - the worst I've ever felt after a match was back in '08 after Montreal lifted the Cup in Toronto or the 5-0 loss to NYRB in '09.

But I think it's the general malaise running through the supporters that started last fall with the raising of the prices - it's contagious.

Well if the team was winning it would cure all. Yes/no.

I think wins would just mask or hide the problem that boiled to the surface last year between the FO and the supporters. It's still lingering. I don't think the FO realized how much damage it caused. Hell, even some supporters don't realize the damage it caused.

And it looks like it will take a lot to repair that damage.

[ManUtd4ever]

^Our current FO can say they made a mistake with Mo, but they cannot admit they were wrong on marketing/pricing, people in the position they're in, they just can't do that. It's corporate suicide.

Absent some sort of unimaginable huge winning streak....the FO will bring in some sort of DP to goose interest, but they won't do nearly enough to stem the tide, and 2012 renewals will fall by some huge number.

While it'll be amusing to see these guys get their comeuppance, it's painful to think about.

The suits had something special, and threw it all away.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't MLSE lower ticket prices for the Raptors recently? I would like to think that they will be proactive in salvaging some semblence of a passionate fan base before the situation reaches the point of no return.

[Beach_Red]

^Our current FO can say they made a mistake with Mo, but they cannot admit they were wrong on marketing/pricing, people in the position they're in, they just can't do that. It's corporate suicide.

Absent some sort of unimaginable huge winning streak....the FO will bring in some sort of DP to goose interest, but they won't do nearly enough to stem the tide, and 2012 renewals will fall by some huge number.

While it'll be amusing to see these guys get their comeuppance, it's painful to think about.

The suits had something special, and threw it all away.

Even the admission of the mistake of Mo doesn't go far enough to say that the mistake they made to only hire Mo and not someone above him to properly set up a new business. Admitting that would be another form of corporate suicide. Just like admitting the FO was too thin from the beginning even though the revenue was there to properly staff it, top to bottom.

Someday the story of MLSE throwing away something special here could be turned into a very good book, one that might get read in management classes for years to come.

[ensco]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't MLSE lower ticket prices for the Raptors recently? I would like to think that they will be proactive in salvaging some semblence of a passionate fan base before the situation reaches the point of no return.

Yes.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/story/2011/03/01/sp-raptors-tickets.html

But it's an example of what I'm talking about. It's tinkering. I know some disgusted former Raptors seat holders. They don't think MLSE went far enough, not even close, 2006 pricing is still $120 for a seat 30 rows up behind the net.

The only place in the ACC where there is strong demand is in the upper bowl, lower rows, between the baselines.

[mastermixer]

Well I remember them saying last year that at some point it was too late to freeze the prices for 2011 and that they would freeze them for 2012. So if they need to wake up they need to do it soon i presume.
Secondly, how big a DP would want to come to a team that is rebuilding? As much as I'd like to see someone exciting come in I'm not getting my hopes up.

[London]

^^^ a DP would be a waste now, only brought in to save ticket sales

[Parkdale]

^^^ a DP would be a waste now, only brought in to save ticket sales


It's impossible to say a DP would be a waste until we see the results on the field. That would be the only way to gauge it as a success or failure.

[Whoop]

Maybe it would spark the fan base...?

[ensco]

^^^ a DP would be a waste now, only brought in to save ticket sales

Depends what you mean by waste. With this ownership, the only reason you'd ever see a DP is because of the need to sell tickets.

[London]

Depends what you mean by waste. With this ownership, the only reason you'd ever see a DP is because of the need to sell tickets.

a sad truth.

i got a funny feeling TFC will cycle through the different ethnic groups in the city with dp's

first bring in the canadian, then the french guy, then an italian, an englishman, etc.

[Parkdale]

Right now, our team could use all the help (on the field) it can get.

I don't care if they bring a DP in to sell jerseys and make us feel good - I just care that they bring our game to a better level.

[mastermixer]

Depends what you mean by waste. With this ownership, the only reason you'd ever see a DP is because of the need to sell tickets.

Which is probably why they never brought one in sooner. They already had the tickets sold the first few years. Why would they want to do something like maybe put a competitive team together??

[P-NUTZ]

winning cures everything.

they need to secure ties and hold leads right now and they are not.
the difference in the points they have now and those they could/should have - refs aside - would make this conversation somewhat different.

the sked does really suck tho.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Which is probably why they never brought one in sooner. They already had the tickets sold the first few years. Why would they want to do something like maybe put a competitive team together??

prob didnt bring one in sooner because of mismanagement with cap amongst mismanagement of a billion other things not cus of the tickets (although im sure it didnt help)

[s2cazz]

a sad truth.

i got a funny feeling TFC will cycle through the different ethnic groups in the city with dp's

first bring in the canadian, then the french guy, then an italian, an englishman, etc.

http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac63/s2cazz/TFC%202011/TFC.jpg

[menefreghista]

The only place in the ACC where there is strong demand is in the upper bowl, lower rows, between the baselines.

Sounds a lot like the situation at BMO Field, were the demand is mostly for the south end tickets.

[Pookie]

winning cures everything.

they need to secure ties and hold leads right now and they are not.
the difference in the points they have now and those they could/should have - refs aside - would make this conversation somewhat different.

the sked does really suck tho.

I disagree 100%.

Winning doesn't impact my disposable income. TFC games are overpriced, period.

The value in holding a season ticket has disappeared.

I can only hope that since TFC subsidized other '
MLS markets that the league will show up and "influence" our market prices going forward.

[ensco]

Sounds a lot like the situation at BMO Field, were the demand is mostly for the south end tickets.

Yes, with an interesting twist. Closeness to the floor has a massive impact on your enjoyment of a basketball game seen live, much moreso than at a soccer game. Thousands of expensive seats at ACC are truly ripoffs because they're not close enough.

[menefreghista]

Yes, with an interesting twist. Closeness to the floor has a massive impact on your enjoyment of a basketball game seen live, much moreso than at a soccer game. Thousands of expensive seats at ACC are truly ripoffs because they're not close enough.

I've always been amazed at how much MLSE could charge for some of the absolutely terrible places to watch soccer, like the tables on the east side.

The best place to watch soccer is mid-field with a bit of height. I'd argue the best seat at BMO Field is the first row of the west side 2nd deck if you are dead centre.

Most of us chose to go to the south end to be part of the supporter groups (and pricing I guess) but not for viewing enjoyment.

[CretanBull]

I disagree 100%.

Winning doesn't impact my disposable income. TFC games are overpriced, period.

The value in holding a season ticket has disappeared.

I can only hope that since TFC subsidized other '
MLS markets that the league will show up and "influence" our market prices going forward.

I was just about to make this exact same point!

[Roogsy]

Yes, with an interesting twist. Closeness to the floor has a massive impact on your enjoyment of a basketball game seen live, much moreso than at a soccer game. Thousands of expensive seats at ACC are truly ripoffs because they're not close enough.


Hence why I no longer go.

If I am going to watch a game from so far away, I might as well watch it in HD in the comfort of my home in my underwear or at the very most, if I feel like spending money, at a bar with friends having reasonably priced drinks.

I am just sad that my kid won't get to enjoy as many games as I did growing up. Now I will only go to Raptor games when I get corporate tickets or for client events.

[Thrillos]

The only reason I renewed my seasons was that the people that are also STH around my seats, who i've built a great friendship with since the very first home game, had decided to give it another year as well.

One group told me on Saturday they had decided not to renew for 2012 as they could no longer sell tickets to some of the games they couldn't make. (which is the same problem i'm having now) Essentially this is spelling the end of me holding onto my seasons now, as the groups of people I sit with is the main reason I go to games now.

Especially since what I have been told about how the business side of this club is run, unless there are changes on that end of the club, I will not be returning for sure.

Every season, we were told the players weren't up to par and we had to rebuild.

Well i've been watching a complete mismanagement of this club from the business end of things for 5 years now, its time for a rebuild on that side.

Coaches, players and directors of soccer have come and gone with no change. That leaves one common denominator to the problems that have plagued TFC since day one.

[Roogsy]

Well i've been watching a complete mismanagement of this club from the business end of things for 5 years now, its time for a rebuild on that side.

Coaches, players and directors of soccer have come and gone with no change. That leaves one common denominator to the problems that have plagued TFC since day one.


This...

[Beach_Red]

This...


And we can't really even claim we didn't know who is actually running the team. Way back in the first or second season when the topic of a DP came up the first story was that, yes, the team would sign one and then Mo said flat out, all the tickets are sold so we don't need one. Mo may have been inept and in over his head, but he actually did want to win and that's just not something a coach/GM says - it's what an accountant says.

In his first week or two on the job Mariner said they were close to signing a big name - would have probably made this a completely different season. But whoever it was didn't sign. I wonder why not? I wonder if it was money and if it was, how much?

[Thrillos]

And we can't really even claim we didn't know who is actually running the team. Way back in the first or second season when the topic of a DP came up the first story was that, yes, the team would sign one and then Mo said flat out, all the tickets are sold so we don't need one. Mo may have been inept and in over his head, but he actually did want to win and that's just not something a coach/GM says - it's what an accountant says.

In his first week or two on the job Mariner said they were close to signing a big name - would have probably made this a completely different season. But whoever it was didn't sign. I wonder why not? I wonder if it was money and if it was, how much?


Your spot on, the only problem Mo had as a Director of Soccer was that he would do anything to bring in a player. When in reality he brought in some great players. He could have brought in a few more good ones as some others on this board i'm sure are well aware. But certain people within club deemed it not required from a business view point.

When shit hit the fan, Mo was used as a scape goat by the club, with some hatred already brewing on these boards it was easy to fuel the fire.

Which is the problem, the business side has been getting involved far too often on aspects of the club they have absolutely no knowledge about.

[ManUtd4ever]

I have a slightly renewed sense of faith in the direction of the organization because of the hiring of the new management regime and the siginificant investment in the new Academy complex.

Otherwise, I have absolutely no confidence in Tom Anselmi and Paul Bierne as the executives being entrusted to guide this franchise off the pitch. We can only hope that with the pending sale of the majority shares of MLSE, Anselmi and Bierne will be replaced as well.

[CretanBull]

Well i've been watching a complete mismanagement of this club from the business end of things for 5 years now, its time for a rebuild on that side.

Coaches, players and directors of soccer have come and gone with no change. That leaves one common denominator to the problems that have plagued TFC since day one.

Even Stevie Wonder can see this, but pointing it out can be dangerous.

The FO have driven this franchise into the ground, they took credit for its early success but the success has always been about the things that they can take the least amount of credit for - the game day experience and the atmosphere.

Litterally for years we've been warning them of the problems on the horizon, but they knew better - now shut up and enjoy your Marlie tickets. Their arrogance and stupidity have disillusioned the most passionate supporters, and with apathy among the hardcores having long since set in, the game day experience and atmosphere that has been the back-bone of this team's success is gone. Getting it back won't be easy.

They fucked-over and priced out their golden goose, convinced that the people on their mythical waiting list would be just as passionate as the people who signed up from day 1. They were wrong...and those people who bought in late to experience the fun and excitement of a TFC game feel cheated because TFC games haven't been fun or exciting for a long time now.

MLSE - stop denying that there are SERIOUS problems with how YOU'VE run the team. Stop excusing your shamefull greed and gouging. Stop telling yourself that winning will solve everything and that a play-off appearence is all that is needed to return to your money grubbing ways. Stop taking advantage of your fans and start thinking about ways to reward them.

You once litterally put a price on loyalty and valued it at $15 - the cost of one of your over-priced beers. In my mind, this was the defining moment in our relationship. My years of passion, the countless hours that I poured in to supporting our team, the countless dollars that I spent, the road trips, flying half-way across the continent knowing that I was travelling to see a loss, was worth $15 to you.

I'm challenging you to replace that defining moment with a new one. One that restores my faith, one that makes me feel good about being a TFC supporter, one that makes me proud of our relationship. You have until the end of this season to live up to this challenge, because if you don't create a new defining moment I will - and it will be me giving you the finger and never looking back.

[Cashcleaner]

I disagree 100%.

Winning doesn't impact my disposable income. TFC games are overpriced, period.

The value in holding a season ticket has disappeared.

I can only hope that since TFC subsidized other '
MLS markets that the league will show up and "influence" our market prices going forward.

Yep. If we start contending but ticket prices have become full-retard, I'll likely try to watch as many games as I can, but I'll have to content myself with watching at home. The number of matches I watch won't likely change, but where I watch them will.

[Whoop]

The catch-22 is if TFC starts winning and making the playoffs, MLSE will use that to justify raising prices again.

You'll see.

[ManUtd4ever]

The catch-22 is if TFC starts winning and making the playoffs, MLSE will use that to justify raising prices again.

You'll see.

Based on the current trajectory of the franchise, it would require an unfathomable lack of foresight on their part to try to justify such a maneuver.

[CretanBull]

Based on the current trajectory of the franchise, it would require an unfathomable lack of foresight on their part to try to justify such a maneuver.

Which is exactly why we'd be fools not to expect it.

[ManUtd4ever]

Which is exactly why we'd be fools not to expect it.

Based on MLSE's history, you're right, but I do believe that they have realized by now that they are dealing with an entirely different brand of supporters in this city when it comes to football.

[Beach_Red]

Based on MLSE's history, you're right, but I do believe that they have realized by now that they are dealing with an entirely different brand of supporters in this city when it comes to football.

Are they? You mean different from the Leafs, of course, but are TFC fans much different than Raptors fans?

Really, what makes us think they can do a better job than they are doing? Why do we always think that if ticket sales drop enough, or if there was relegation or if something else happened, than that would wake them up and they'd suddenly get good at running a sports team.

[tfcleeds]

The catch-22 is if TFC starts winning and making the playoffs, MLSE will use that to justify raising prices again.

You'll see.

And to think, some of the seats at BMO are already some the highest season ticket prices in the world - similar, if not higher, than the two clubs who will be playing in the UEFA Champions' League final in two weeks' time.

[ilikemusic]

Why do people seem so convinced a DP is coming?

This is the same song and dance we hear every season. Nothing gets done in the off-season, the first half of the season they tread water (thought treading water would be an improvement this year) while claiming they've 'got a few options theyre looking at' for a mid-season DP.

If, and it is a big if, if a DP is signed, it wont be a big name. It wont be a Ljunberg or an Henry. If we are REALLY lucky, it will be a good young DP that nobody has ever heard of. More likely though, it will be an old useless DP that nobody has ever heard of like Mista or JDG.

[Thrillos]

The best thing to happen to this club since day one is Winter, de Klerk and Mariner. They are trying to instill an actual football mentality in the management of this club, in doing this they have to get rid of the uselessness that currently resides in management.

Tom Anselmi has never been the problem with the team, his only problem has been trusting MLS in hiring Mo Johnston (I do not hold the hatred for him as most do on here, he just wasn't ready to run a club, let alone start one from scratch) and not giving the current business managment team the boot yet.

He does not interfere with the daily operations and knows how to leave things that he has no knowledge of to the people who have the knowledge.

For all those praising the academy investment, let me make it clear that the absolute only reason the investment was made was the sale of Maurice Edu. For those of you joking that MLSE is probably just hoping the academy can produce 4 Maurice Edu's, you shouldn't be joking thats exactly how they see it.

They don't see it as better producing Toronto FC they see it as an investment for the sale of future academy players. Which is good for Toronto FC, but I just want to make sure that people know they had money in mind and only money.

All in all

In Winter I trust, and fuck MLSE

[denime]

Hence why I no longer go.

If I am going to watch a game from so far away, I might as well watch it in HD in the comfort of my home in my underwear or at the very most, if I feel like spending money, at a bar with friends having reasonably priced drinks.

Dude,thanks for the visual. :eek6:

[menefreghista]

Why do people seem so convinced a DP is coming?

I'm not. Unless the MLSE sale is complete. Than maybe with new upper management.

In our current form we have a fairly cheap team based on the MLS PU numbers recently released.

I'm convinced they are trying to keep costs down until the team is sold. And they have the perfect excuse as so many fans have already bought the 'rebuild' bs line and even think a DP is of no use.

[Beach_Red]

Tom Anselmi has never been the problem with the team, his only problem has been trusting MLS in hiring Mo Johnston (I do not hold the hatred for him as most do on here, he just wasn't ready to run a club, let alone start one from scratch) and not giving the current business managment team the boot yet.



I agree with everything you're saying. But still, that's kind of like saying a goalie's only problem is he lets in too many goals. Senior management's main job is hiring the people who actually do the work. If they pass that off to the league, then what are they doing here?

But you're right, if Mariner and Winter are ever actually allowed to run the team it will likely improve. They have a mess of office politics to get through and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they've already realized it's just too much work in the back offices to bother. No one has mentioned bringing in new players here for quite a while.

[ManUtd4ever]

Are they? You mean different from the Leafs, of course, but are TFC fans much different than Raptors fans?

Really, what makes us think they can do a better job than they are doing? Why do we always think that if ticket sales drop enough, or if there was relegation or if something else happened, than that would wake them up and they'd suddenly get good at running a sports team.

I was strictly referring to off field issues such as ticket pricing.

I am of the belief that Winter and Mariner are now firmly in charge of the on field product. I understand that they require MLSE board approval in terms of salary expenditures beyond the salary cap, but otherwise they are in essence running the team.

[CretanBull]

The value of a DP contract shouldn't effect MLSE's sale...$2 million is nothing in a $2 billion sale. What hurts more is poor attendence (which indicates poor future ticket sales).

[CretanBull]

Tom Anselmi has never been the problem with the team, his only problem has been trusting MLS in hiring Mo Johnston (I do not hold the hatred for him as most do on here, he just wasn't ready to run a club, let alone start one from scratch) and not giving the current business managment team the boot yet.


Who re-signed Mo to an extention in the middle of Season 3? Who didn't fire Mo after the 5-0 blow out in NY?

[dupont]

I actually like that they brought in Winter and Mariner.. I think stability is the key in MLS so leaving them in place no matter how we finish this season is very important. You shouldn't just rebuild every single year just because you don't do well.

Like others have said though, when it comes to demand - I doubt even winning would fix it. It's just become way too expensive.

I love this team and I always will (but will I always be watching the games from inside the stadium or at home? I guess that the ball is in MLSE's court to make that decision for me)

[ParadymeTFC]

Someone may have said it elsewhere. And if they do, it bears repeating.

Toronto FC is like the sweet girl you're in love with and are dating. ML$E are her psycho douchebag parents you cannot stand.

Can I get that on a T-Shirt?

[P-NUTZ]

I disagree 100%.

Winning doesn't impact my disposable income. TFC games are overpriced, period.

The value in holding a season ticket has disappeared.

I can only hope that since TFC subsidized other '
MLS markets that the league will show up and "influence" our market prices going forward.


I agree that prices are higher than they should be. But from my personal perspective my disposable income is more comfortably spent watching a winning team, than being spent on what i've chosen to pay for so far.

So winning cures a lot for me as a soccer/sports fan, and tfc supporter.

[ManUtd4ever]

I understand your sentiment P-NUTZ because my tickets are still reasonably priced as well, but even if TFC makes the playoffs for the next five years in row, not a single ticket price increase will be justified.

[s2cazz]

I agree that prices are higher than they should be. But from my personal perspective my disposable income is more comfortably spent watching a winning team, than being spent on what i've chosen to pay for so far.

So winning cures a lot for me as a soccer/sports fan, and tfc supporter.

It may be outside of some peoples disposable income, but the fact is a winning team increases the percieved value. So if its outside your disposable income it will be easier for FO to find someone to replace you.

[P-NUTZ]

and i would agree with you there - im almost maxed out for what im willing to spend. but happily will spend it on a winner. if winning increases prices going forward i would make my choices accordingly. any higher though, and they will have trouble replacing anybody. they are really close to the ceiling i think.

[Pachuco]

I disagree 100%.

Winning doesn't impact my disposable income. TFC games are overpriced, period.

The value in holding a season ticket has disappeared.

I can only hope that since TFC subsidized other '
MLS markets that the league will show up and "influence" our market prices going forward.

There is no doubt in my mind that atleast in Toronto, demand is tied to winning. From looking at the Blue Jays, Leafs and Raptors I think I can safely say Toronto fans will pay big bucks to see a winning team and they refuse to support a shitty one. Yes, even the Leafs have had dwindling support in their rebuilding years.

So, if the team gets better, demand should be higher which in turn will make tickets more expensive. That's just the way it works whether you like it or not.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

More likely though, it will be an old useless DP that nobody has ever heard of like Mista or JDG.

good generalization if we were dealing with Mo/Preki.
hasnt been any indication that this would happen under Winter/Mariner

[Pookie]

There is no doubt in my mind that atleast in Toronto, demand is tied to winning. From looking at the Blue Jays, Leafs and Raptors I think I can safely say Toronto fans will pay big bucks to see a winning team and they refuse to support a shitty one. Yes, even the Leafs have had dwindling support in their rebuilding years.

So, if the team gets better, demand should be higher which in turn will make tickets more expensive. That's just the way it works whether you like it or not.

The one little nuance with your observation is that CORPORATIONS will pay big bucks to see the Leafs, etc. The average fan cannot.

Leafs tickets stay high because there are corporate buyers willing to step in. As tax laws and industry ethics take hold, the Leafs are in trouble. If Casino Rama dropped their seasons, another corporation would have to step in.

I've written a few times about the difference in the season ticket buyer and the single game buyer. The ST buyer is looking for all games at a significant discount. This is the guy who wants to go to all games involving the team. For this guy, the concept of Playoff game "Loyalty Pricing" is an insult. They aren't going to pay 200 for every playoff game.

And since there are no corporations willing to jump in, this market is extremely limited.

The single game buyer is willing to drop a few bones on a game, particularly a good one or a special one involving a player or team or other significance.

[ensco]

^If I were asked to guess at one single reason why Teachers are selling now, this would be it. The corporate season ticket business model is in deep trouble everywhere.

When it goes, it won't be gradual, it'll be like an anvil going through rice paper.

[Suds]

^If I were asked to guess at one single reason why Teachers are selling now, this would be it. The corporate season ticket business model is in deep trouble everywhere.

When it goes, it won't be gradual, it'll be like an anvil going through rice paper.

Ask anyone who is a small to mid-sized business owner what return they got for owning season seats to a sports team, and if they were truthful, they would say it's negligible at best. I know someone who had a box a BMO the first 2-3 years. They dropped it. Another good friends had Leafs tix for their business. Dropped them and now they are thinking they will drop the Raptors tix they still have. The company I work for is desperate to drop their box at the ACC. The only reason they have it is because they bought another company and are tied to a long term deal. (and we are not a small company)

All that will be left are the banks, beer companies, and other very large companies that can buy. But as you noted, policies around corporate gifts are getting tight. Many of my customers tell me they can't accept tix to our corp box anymore.

[Walnut]

Where is the season beyond salvageable?
We are 13th out of 18th with 68% of the season to go.
8 through 12 are 3 points or less ahead. Some of those have only 1 game in hand. If we won last night we would right in the thick of the playoff race.
Half of the games we have played ended up in a draw, a DP striker would help in those situations.
Also, I would think a DP striker would be coming in June sometime as the Euro leagues would be well and done for a couple of weeks by then.
All in all, the season is still salvageable.

Whole lot of away games to come. The team would need a really strong road performance moving into the second half of the season -- and as we are struggling to win at home, I am not convinced we can win away.

Any investment has to come in the shape of a central midfielder / play maker, and a solid / proven striking option. Also - we need an establish 'boss' in the CB position to keep the line. Basically we need a spine or strength to run through the middle.

Without this - playoffs are a pipe dream.

[Hitcho]

But remember, that will justify price increases after next year's "generous" price freeze.

If they do that, then I'm gone. I thought about it this season but decided to hold on for a bit longer. One more ass fuck though, just one more, and I'm ditching my four season tickets.

You want long term profits MLSE? Then get the fucking prices down, work with the SGs to recapture the atmosphere, fill up the stadium again and start treating this like a partnership instead of marital rape. :facepalm:

[mightydrm]

Please stop coming to the games if you don't enjoy them. We do.

[mightydrm]

If you are done, go away. Thanks for the memories.

[mightydrm]

[QUOTE=Suds;1299756]I do not know how much input they get, but the schedule this year is beyond ridiculous. Start times are all over the place, too many evening games at the start of the year when our weather is crap and cold, too many home games bunched up in the start of the season with hardly any during the summer. Even away games to cities nearby for the most part are scheduled on crap dates.

[polak9pete]

I wish TFC was a team that had a steady lineup game in and game out to create some consistency and chemistry between the players. If you look Man Utd's lineups for the past 5 years based on minutes played the lineup is almost a clone year to year it's ridiculous.

(2006-07)
E.VAN DER SAR
P.EVRA
R.FERDINAND
J.O'SHEA
G.NEVILLE
M.CARRICK
R.GIGGS
P.SCHOLES
D.FLETCHER
C.RONALDO
W.ROONEY

(2007-08)
E.VAN DER SAR
P.EVRA
R.FERDINAND
N.VIDIC
W.BROWN
M.CARRICK
R.GIGGS
P.SCHOLES
NANI
C.RONALDO
C.TEVEZ

(2008-09)
E.VAN DER SAR
G.NEVILLE
R.FERDINAND
N.VIDIC
P.EVRA
M.CARRICK
D.FLETCHER
R.GIGGS
J.PARK
C.RONALDO
W.ROONEY

(2009-10)
E.VAN DER SAR
P.EVRA
N.VIDIC
W.BROWN
G.NEVILLE
D.FLETCHER
M.CARRICK
L.VALENCIA
P.SCHOLES
W.ROONEY
D.BERBATOV

(2010-11)
E.VAN DER SAR
P.EVRA
N.VIDIC
R.FERDINAND
J.O'SHEA
D.FLETCHER
M.CARRICK
R.GIGGS
NANI
W.ROONEY
D.BERBATOV

[ag futbol]

I wish TFC was a team that had a steady lineup game in and game out to create some consistency and chemistry between the players. If you look Man Utd's lineups for the past 5 years based on minutes played the lineup is almost a clone year to year it's ridiculous.

It's an admirable thing to strive for but MLS labor conditions make it hard to achieve.

sometimes teams are a little to hasty in cutting guys lose, but there's a lot of natural turnover when it comes to guys who just aren't good enough to play in the league or are out of contract and have no interest in coming back. TFC not alone in this regard.

[Hustle]

Price Freeze is a slap in the face. Price cut or no reason to renew seasons....to easy to get cheaper elsewhere.

These guys at MLSE just dont get it...wow.

[lobo]

@Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne) Paul Beirne
2 hr meeting to discuss artificial turf options and the infill material. Considering one that is not filled with rubber but cork and coconut
13 May (http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne/status/69184665063395328)wtf?

[Auzzy]

wtf?

That's likely for the artificial turf fields at the new training & Academy facility in Downsview.

I believe the rubber bits in between field turf is good for making it a bit softer etc., but otherwise pretty awful. For one, it must help to really heat up the field in the summer. Plus, there's always rubber dust flying around, which isn't nice to inhale.

[Azerban]

unironically bring back fieldturf, at least we'd have some sembalance of a home field advantage

[koryo]

MLSE will always trade on, and exploit to the hilt, the very generous loyalty, love and support for the team to-date.

But as far as they're concerned, the value of the football team doesn't extend beyond their bottom line.

This will never change.

[Beach_Red]

MLSE will always trade on, and exploit to the hilt, the very generous loyalty, love and support for the team to-date.

But as far as they're concerned, the value of the football team doesn't extend beyond their bottom line.

This will never change.

That wouldn't even be a bad thing if they could maximize that bottom line instead of screwing it away.

[menefreghista]

MLSE will always trade on, and exploit to the hilt, the very generous loyalty, love and support for the team to-date.

But as far as they're concerned, the value of the football team doesn't extend beyond their bottom line.

This will never change.

Having read Paul Beirne's tweets and having followed MLSE for years I predict that they will push ahead with their 'price freeze'. They will worry about any fallout afterward through pleading, town halls and giving us free games.

I bet season ticket renewals would have to hit 5,000 for them to seriously consider lowering prices.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I bet season ticket renewals would have to hit 5,000 for them to seriously consider lowering prices.

yep some truth in that.
Im willing to bet they took non renewels into consideration when they raised prices as well

[mastermixer]

Having read Paul Beirne's tweets and having followed MLSE for years I predict that they will push ahead with their 'price freeze'. They will worry about any fallout afterward through pleading, town halls and giving us free games.

I bet season ticket renewals would have to hit 5,000 for them to seriously consider lowering prices.

I predict we will see a renovation of the Stadium some time soon to spark some new interest again. Roof, connect the gaps, etc.

[menefreghista]

yep some truth in that.
Im willing to bet they took non renewels into consideration when they raised prices as well

And most of us noticed a drop in demand and attendance already last season, yet they still raised prices.

Faced with the same problem this season (but worse of course) I think they will just plow ahead.

As it stands now I wonder how bad our attendance will be if/when we make the CCL. I think 10,000 would be pushing it for the Preliminary game.


I predict we will see a renovation of the Stadium some time soon to spark some new interest again. Roof, connect the gaps, etc.

I think the only cards they have to play are a roof, or a name DP. I'm wondering if they can pull off the DP move though. Besides I think these are band aid solutions.

They were probably hoping that the training facility news would help, but that only works with the hard core. The general fan base doesn't give a shit about the Academy or player development.

[Section 117]

I disagree with the DP portion of the argument. If the team does sign a DP and it is the RIGHT player ie someone who will make a considerable impact both on the field with results and off the field with jerseys sales.

This will make a huge difference with the fan base especially again if the results on the pitch change. IMO they need to sign an attacking midfielder. Someone who would make a difference and I think it should be Seedorf. His set pieces and overal vision would make a considerable difference on the pitch

[spark]

This will make a huge difference with the fan base especially again if the results on the pitch change. IMO they need to sign an attacking midfielder. Someone who would make a difference and I think it should be Seedorf. His set pieces and overal vision would make a considerable difference on the pitch

Seedorf! From Surinam as well! AM for sure - need upgrade at CB, but as a DP wouldn't complain with that.

[nfitz]

I don't see why they would lower ticket prices. Tickets seem to be moving well.

The crowd was certainly reduced on Saturday because of the heavy rain. However if you looked at the new north stand, it seems as though tickets had been sold for the top expensive light-blue rows that have been empty for most games this season other than Los Angeles. This suggests that had the weather been decent, we'd have been pretty close to a sell-out.

[SirBobSaget]

I don't see why they would lower ticket prices. Tickets seem to be moving well.

The crowd was certainly reduced on Saturday because of the heavy rain. However if you looked at the new north stand, it seems as though tickets had been sold for the top expensive light-blue rows that have been empty for most games this season other than Los Angeles. This suggests that had the weather been decent, we'd have been pretty close to a sell-out.

Most of those seats were taken up by Milton soccer kids + parents, tickets were probably comped. This does seem to be a one-off gamer section since theres a constant stream of people walking up and down aisle trying to find seats every week.

Also aisle seats SUCK!! why would you go find your seat at the 15min mark, sit for 15 seconds then decide its time to pop down for a hot dog. Middle is the way to go then dont have to move for no one.

[Roogsy]

I disagree with the DP portion of the argument. If the team does sign a DP and it is the RIGHT player ie someone who will make a considerable impact both on the field with results and off the field with jerseys sales.

This will make a huge difference with the fan base especially again if the results on the pitch change. IMO they need to sign an attacking midfielder. Someone who would make a difference and I think it should be Seedorf. His set pieces and overal vision would make a considerable difference on the pitch

I agree with almost everything here except the Seedorf thing. I think MLSE needs someone who will attract certain elements of the communities that have been supportive of TFC and while Seedorf is a great name for those of us who follow soccer closely, he wouldn't be to the general public. I think you need a South American or someone from the "Latin-based" countries of Europe. Italy, Spain or Portugal.

With the popularity of Plata, I predict they will tap South America again. The irony being of course that Paul Beirne once said that was not possible but now I bet they start looking on a regular basis.

[s2cazz]

Seedorf is awesome. But we need a striker, not another DP midfielder. Our team isn't built to support seedorf and he would be rendered pretty ineffective IMO.

It would mean 1 more year of rebuilding to build a team around him.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i beg to differ man, our offense needs some creative spark which is limited to Plata right now (im not against a DP striker as well tho for the record)

[Yohan]

i beg to differ man, our offense needs some creative spark which is limited to Plata right now (im not against a DP striker as well tho for the record)
Need an AM! good AM will make even most mediocre strikers look decent

a playmaker AM will make a poacher like Santos look amazing

[Section 117]

A dp striker is only as good as he service they receive. So even if we get that DP striker he will get frustrated because the lack of service. On the other hand if you get someone to set the table and provide consistent creativity in the middle of the park the strikers we have will look better then they are just look at Buddle as an example of a striker who got great service with LA.

Then next year when JDG is off the books you go sign a DP striker. I personally don't think in a salary cap league 3 DPs making a third of the salary cap is prudent unless the team has impeccable scouting to fill the rest of the roster out.

[Suds]

i beg to differ man, our offense needs some creative spark which is limited to Plata right now (im not against a DP striker as well tho for the record)


Need an AM! good AM will make even most mediocre strikers look decent

a playmaker AM will make a poacher like Santos look amazing


I'd like to see and attacking mid who can put the ball in the net.

It will not take long before teams learn to focus and shut down Plata. With another offensive threat, it makes the ability to shut one guy down much tougher.